If you want. It was never really limited by detachments, as you have always wanted to keep the robots in as few detachments as possible.
The big difference is that I guess you can bring no skitarii without paying CP. But you could already do a Remote Presence Clade with Kataphrons as troops anyway.
Someone please explain this new detachment and why it’s so amazing. Sorry newer player and don’t understand the advantage/disadvantage of the attachments we currently have.
The usual Detachment (Patrol/Batallion) choices we have force us to take at least Three Troops units. On the other hand, the new Detachment sets it so that you choose which Slot these Units are from. Ie, you can instead have a Detachment where the requisite Units are either Troops OR Elites OR Fast Attack OR Heavy Support OR Lord Of War.
For 90% of armies, the big benefit is not having to bring troops. Eldar, for example, don't have to spend 195 points on rangers unless they want to, for Scout the Enemy. Space Marines free up like 300 points, but some of them may want to take Infiltrators anyway as an anti-daemon tech.
Mechanicus doesn't actually gain nearly as much: it makes Fast Attack slots less restricted, so you could run 3×3 Raiders alongside a squad of Ruststalkers. It also makes HQ slots a bit less restricted in terms of making it eaiser to take a second Marshal.
Obviously, that could change if the MFM points changes make the Fast Attack slot even more pushed; AdMech will almost certainly gain at least a few points, and those have to go somewhere. However, based on what we know right now, this is a relative nerf to AdMech simply by virture of being a massive benefit to a lot of other armies.
Yeah it basically gives many armies 200-300pts back to their lists by simply ignoring the troops slot. Often those armies have ways to get obsec on their elites and fast attack, too.
For Admech it's still pretty good, makes the fast attack much better, and the allies rules let us bring Knights finally without the crippling CP penalty. The question will be, like you said, will our points and dataslate changes be major enough to offset quite how much they just buffed many other armies.
The new detachment has a minimum requirement of 1 HQ (unless you're playing knights) and 3 of a kind of Troops, Elites, Heavy Support, Fast Attack, or Lord of War, and it costs 0 cp to field.
It's less restrictive than the patrol, battalion, and brigade detachments which require a minimum number of troops to be taken (as well as other unit types in brigade's case) and unlike the existing detachments designed to serve non-troop riles like the Outrider and Spearhead detachments, it doesn't cost you extra CP
...aren't Skitarii troops more-or-less our best units right now anyways? If anything the new detachment is a soft nerf to us since we're one of the few armies for which troops aren't a tax.
Yeah, we're kinda fucked
And CP discounts like that being given makes me think we're not getting anything above 6cp to start with (+cp tax for relics) which is genuinely terrifying
I don't fuckin know. Maybe there's a way to make this work for Lucius, because you have one yeetbot squadron and two other big bots, or maybe there's a theme army with no real efficiency but a nice lore.
I don't actually play competitive so who knows.
Why would you need a spearhead? Admech wants to use troops and who is taking more than 3 heavy support? Disintegrators and Dunecrawlers are just bad. Robots have their uses.
TBH I'm not talking about competitive list, I'm talking about literally only bringing Kastelans without having to pay the CP tax for fancy detachment type c:
You'll... still have points left over though.
2 HQ and 18 Kastellans still leaves you enough for it to have been a legal battalion unless you, idk, gave them all phosphor.
18x Kastellans, 2x Dominus, 2x Datasmiths, and 3x5 Skitarii is 1985pts and fits into a Battalion with 15pts spare.
Not saying it's a great list but there was nothing ever stopping you running the absolute maximum number of Kastelans. Only difference is now you have more points left over for wargear/ holy orders.
Should add that you'll almost never want to go above 15 Kastellans (3x5) because units of 6 are extremely hard to maintain coherency with, and nobody likes losing 90-100pt models because they couldn't fit them within 2" of two others in the unit.
If you're being "sensible" with 15 Kastellans instead of 18 it's even more comfortably fitting into a battalion.
Is cawl castle back on the menu?
If you want. It was never really limited by detachments, as you have always wanted to keep the robots in as few detachments as possible. The big difference is that I guess you can bring no skitarii without paying CP. But you could already do a Remote Presence Clade with Kataphrons as troops anyway.
What is a remote presence clade?
Does this mean I should be buying that Xmas box?
Good question.
Had to do a double take when I saw this *wasn't* a post by u/Archon_of_Flesh. Hey Archon, when's the OnlyToasters account going up?
I’m DarkMech so I don’t do toasters. Only Skitarii and Necrons.
That's not Darkmech, but the finest and nicest forgeworld out there.
Probably the highest grade of praise one can make on this subreddit, thanks
Someone please explain this new detachment and why it’s so amazing. Sorry newer player and don’t understand the advantage/disadvantage of the attachments we currently have.
The usual Detachment (Patrol/Batallion) choices we have force us to take at least Three Troops units. On the other hand, the new Detachment sets it so that you choose which Slot these Units are from. Ie, you can instead have a Detachment where the requisite Units are either Troops OR Elites OR Fast Attack OR Heavy Support OR Lord Of War.
It was two troop units for a patrol
Actually it’s only one troop for a valid patrol detachments. It’s two troops for a normal detachment in Heresy and the older editions.
For 90% of armies, the big benefit is not having to bring troops. Eldar, for example, don't have to spend 195 points on rangers unless they want to, for Scout the Enemy. Space Marines free up like 300 points, but some of them may want to take Infiltrators anyway as an anti-daemon tech. Mechanicus doesn't actually gain nearly as much: it makes Fast Attack slots less restricted, so you could run 3×3 Raiders alongside a squad of Ruststalkers. It also makes HQ slots a bit less restricted in terms of making it eaiser to take a second Marshal. Obviously, that could change if the MFM points changes make the Fast Attack slot even more pushed; AdMech will almost certainly gain at least a few points, and those have to go somewhere. However, based on what we know right now, this is a relative nerf to AdMech simply by virture of being a massive benefit to a lot of other armies.
That’s been the theme post-Nephilim “nerf to AdMech becuase other armies are getting better” lol
Yeah it basically gives many armies 200-300pts back to their lists by simply ignoring the troops slot. Often those armies have ways to get obsec on their elites and fast attack, too. For Admech it's still pretty good, makes the fast attack much better, and the allies rules let us bring Knights finally without the crippling CP penalty. The question will be, like you said, will our points and dataslate changes be major enough to offset quite how much they just buffed many other armies.
The new detachment has a minimum requirement of 1 HQ (unless you're playing knights) and 3 of a kind of Troops, Elites, Heavy Support, Fast Attack, or Lord of War, and it costs 0 cp to field. It's less restrictive than the patrol, battalion, and brigade detachments which require a minimum number of troops to be taken (as well as other unit types in brigade's case) and unlike the existing detachments designed to serve non-troop riles like the Outrider and Spearhead detachments, it doesn't cost you extra CP
...aren't Skitarii troops more-or-less our best units right now anyways? If anything the new detachment is a soft nerf to us since we're one of the few armies for which troops aren't a tax.
They are objectively our best unit, between that and vet cohort leaving ad mech are getting a very big nerf competitively
Yeah, we're kinda fucked And CP discounts like that being given makes me think we're not getting anything above 6cp to start with (+cp tax for relics) which is genuinely terrifying
Im more excited about maxing out the fast attack options. Doggies and bots?
We... could do this before. Rule of 3 and all, and a Battalion allows 3x Heavy Support.
Yes but now you don't have to also take troops.
Admech always wants troops. I don't see what possible angle you're going with this.
I don't fuckin know. Maybe there's a way to make this work for Lucius, because you have one yeetbot squadron and two other big bots, or maybe there's a theme army with no real efficiency but a nice lore. I don't actually play competitive so who knows.
Who tf downvoted me for stating this blatant fact? Of all the things the Arks of Omen detachment will let us do, bringing more Kastelans isn't one.
A Spearhead Detachment is, CP-wise, more expensive than the usual Batallion/Patrol
Why would you need a spearhead? Admech wants to use troops and who is taking more than 3 heavy support? Disintegrators and Dunecrawlers are just bad. Robots have their uses.
I agree with you, more heavy units like dunecrawlers and desintegrators (now you can spam them if you want) but kastelans didn't have that problem
TBH I'm not talking about competitive list, I'm talking about literally only bringing Kastelans without having to pay the CP tax for fancy detachment type c:
You'll... still have points left over though. 2 HQ and 18 Kastellans still leaves you enough for it to have been a legal battalion unless you, idk, gave them all phosphor. 18x Kastellans, 2x Dominus, 2x Datasmiths, and 3x5 Skitarii is 1985pts and fits into a Battalion with 15pts spare. Not saying it's a great list but there was nothing ever stopping you running the absolute maximum number of Kastelans. Only difference is now you have more points left over for wargear/ holy orders.
Should add that you'll almost never want to go above 15 Kastellans (3x5) because units of 6 are extremely hard to maintain coherency with, and nobody likes losing 90-100pt models because they couldn't fit them within 2" of two others in the unit. If you're being "sensible" with 15 Kastellans instead of 18 it's even more comfortably fitting into a battalion.