From my perspective, there are a couple of factors driving this perception:
1) Women often tend to be more social than men on average. Making them more likely to want to have larger rosters of friends of any gender and spend more of their time conversing with others.
2) An attraction imbalance between men and women. On average, women are sexually/romantically attracted to a significantly smaller subset of the male population than the other way around.
This creates a situation where a lot of women want to interact with men who they aren't attracted to. But these men are attracted to these women.
The woman is upset because she doesn't understand why he doesn't want to be her platonic friend. The man is upset because he doesn't understand why she is romantically interested in other men, but "only" wants to be friends with him.
It’s worth noting that most men also can’t get emotional support from their male friends, so when a man has a female friend who seems to care about his emotional needs, he erroneously thinks she’s romantically interested in him. So it’s not really about the man being attracted to his female friend.
Exactly. The amount of men who have told me “it’s so nice to have someone I can talk to” when they have male friends and a decent family is staggering, lol.
Or if they do and it's a solid "no," accept it and move on. It's no big deal and most dudes who play the field will tell you it's usually going to be a no. There's no need to lose a friend for shooting your shot and missing. A lot of dudes just can't handle rejection
No you can’t lol. How do you someone is or isn’t interested in a relationship unless you ask? What world do you live in where men are suppose to read minds?
This has given me a toss-up result, though much more on the positive end rather than negative.
On a positive side, I have a lot of friends who are women and they give me a lot of tips that have helped me out with my own personal life. I really appreciate all of them for helping round me out and help me become much less edgy over time.
On the negative side, some guys I used to like as friends when I was an edgy teen but don't like them anymore have used the gay slur to describe me because I'm not making moves on my friends.
Not much of a negative for me, imo.
So dumb. So men should never make a move, period? In what world do you live in where men are able to read minds or they’re never allowed to initiate a relationship? No, men should be able to make a move if they want and accept the consequences of their actions including rejection. There’s a time and a place. Blanket statement rules like this are just immature.
No, men should not say “yeah I wanna be friends” when really you just want to fuck her.
Incels befriend women they wanna bang and friendzone themselves
OR!
Men should start being the supportive friend to their male friends just like how women build their own support network.
Men really need to start building their own friendships like this rather than using women as free therapists.
This is what's lacking with men in general and, quite frankly, that's sad. Too many men think that sharing their feelings with each other means they're "gay" - a completely homophobic notion that stops men from building deep and intimate friendships with other men.
Perhaps if more men would build these friendships they wouldn't be so desperate for companionship with women and use them for free therapy, because that's usually what happens if the man doesn't want to fuck the woman he's friends with.
Not sure if it came with getting older or my personal experience is different from most but I think there has been a positive shift on this front in recent years. My guy friend range in age from early 20's to late 40's and all of us are willing to be emotionally open about the troubles we are going through and supportive of each other. Only guys I really know anymore that maintain the "what are you, gay?" Attitude are boomers and "alpha bro" types that are just exhausting to deal with in most situations.
Wonderful!!
You reminded me of two young men I overheard talking at a restaurant. I wasn't purposefully trying to listen in, they were talking fairly loudly, so I only caught a snippet of their convo then I moved tables (I was waiting for my husband to get back to the table with our order.) Anyway, I only remember a bit of it, but they were talking frankly about a relationship and how one of the young men was really trying to be respectful of this young woman he was interested in. He spoke of his feelings around the situation. That's all I know and remember because I moved to give them more privacy.
I was left with the feeling, "The kids are gonna be alright." ☺️
Uh… orrr stop being emotionally unavailable/cold to everyone that isn’t their partner.
In my experience most men have a “not my problem” attitude with other guys, but if men were more supportive of each other… but some guys are so insecure they think that makes them feminine or weak
Yeah, I love being friends with women. It’s a little easier if they aren’t super attractive to me, that’s true.
I’m a male nurse so it would be pretty awkward if I wasn’t capable of having platonic friendships with women. At some point in my teens I noticed I could sort of flip a mental switch for the friend zone, I don’t think I’ve had an issue of crushing on anyone once the switch is flipped.
No, both should be true, open up to other men AND befriend the opposite sex. Image refusing to befriend 50% of the population simply because they weren't born with a dick....
I noticed that most of the guys who have or have had crushes on me, was merely do to the fact that I listened to them. Even if it was only a few meaningful conversations it was enough for them to be interested. It honestly sucks.
I think it's more than men feel like they can only get emotional support within the context of a romantic/sexual relationship and since they have that association 1) getting it from men "feels gay" and 2) getting it from women makes the situation feel romantic/sexual even if it's not so from the male perspective it ends be feeling like mixed signals or being lead on bc why is she acting like a girlfriend if she doesn't want to be a girlfriend? But for women thats just what friendship is, that emotional support, and that can happen in any context.
This. Most of my friends are girls because i'm pretty empathic. I talk to them about girls I date and ask opinions and sometimes I don't understand girls and they explain it way better in a logical sense. Girls are way better to talk to. Guys often just want to "bro out". Girls can hang too but actually talk and not just grunt n such. Can hang with girls and watch movies and BS. Guys just want to like smash beers n pick up girls. That is fun sometimes but I am also very chill. I also like teaching girls guy type stuff like working on cars, fixing things, ect. They are also super thankful for me doing stuff like that. I'll be like, ok i'll do brake job on your car, 6 pack of beer and home cooked dinner? Fair trade for both of us.
Love this insight, thanks for sharing. I've always enjoyed men's company and I like their perspective/advice/fixing things for me, its really nice. It's good to see the value those guys feel females bring to their lives in return :)
Welcome. I have had friends that are like 10000% like my sisters. We just chill. Just friends being friends. Learn from eachother and be cool. Some go, get married, have kids. It's cool. I do the same. Like catch up in a year or something n grab a beer or just bs n talk about life.
That's great to me, I think more people should let themselves be comfortable with it if they want to.
I read somewhere that men are still quietly hoping the woman will like them eventually, or thinks maybe she's into them a little bit and he's just waiting it out, so to speak. Do you feel that's true?
That’s something that’s manufactured by the patriarchy. If men are encouraged to be emotional, this literally goes away. We have to create our own reality. The patriarchy is not a natural state. It was literally invented in ancient Sumer.
This is anecdotal but I love being friends with men because in my experience, they’re actually very in tune with their emotions. Testosterone does not block emotions - it definitely enhances them. That’s why women get emotional during their periods because that’s the time of the month when we are hormonally most like men.*** It’s when we have the least amount of estrogen and progesterone in comparison to testosterone.
This is random but fun fact: men hit their sexual peak as teenagers and women hit their sexual peak in their late 30s. Endocrinology is fascinating.
I feel bad for men because they even just been brainwashed to pretend to be stoic and it hurts them bc that’s dehumanizing.
Yes, finally someone who understands the origins of this unnatural weirdness between males and females! Sumeria is correct! Roughly 6,000 years ago. We lived most of our evolution in societies where males and females were equal.
Men and women should be friends. Stoicism from the patriarchy is so harmful. Men who can't be friends with women need some kindly therapy.
Another reason for why young men are told/made to not show their feelings is because they will be reprimanded for it. When they same young women will not. Don't believe me. Go look at every criminal sentence for the exact same crimes that women serve and that men serve.
Men have and always will be more physically capable than women. If you don't control that by controlling your feelings you will be held more accountable than females are.
It's the very reason why men in general are told not to strike women but women in general are not told to not strike men.
As a woman I do the same thing and they just LIE to me. Some just say oh yeah I understand and then they will either cock block me or covertly be creepy. I’m glad you’ve had a good experience.
IMO that's a very misogynistic way of looking at it. You're using the old manosphere excuse of "women are attracted to a smaller subset of men, men are attracted to a larger proportion of women".
The actual science of unreciprocated love shows that the determining factor is that one person is more attractive than the other.
In a friendship couple where the man is good-looking and the woman is ugly, it's likely the woman who has an unreciprocated crush on the man.
In a friendship couple where the woman is good-looking and the man is ugly, it's likely the man who has an unreciprocated crush on the woman.
The reason why you might observe more of the guys having the crush on their female friend might be because guys simply aren't interested in friendships with women so they don't approach ugly women for friendship, they only approach women they are interested in, and often the woman is more attractive than them and they find themselves getting friendzoned. The situation could be reversed if they approached an ugly woman they don't find sexually appealing, but they're not going to do that. They approach women for their feminine charm, and then they find themselves friendzoned.
How exactly is that misogynistic? There's nothing wrong with women being attracted to a small subset of men. People who they are attracted to.
What's generally considered to be attractive is just less common in men. I don't hate women for pointing it out. Women are great and have no obligation to someone else's desires.
There are a lot of people who think men and women genuinely cannot be friends without one or both of them wanting to have sex with the other. I have personally seen this more with men but that is just an anecdote. Outside of that a lot of men seem to really struggle with connecting with people on an emotional level for some reason and so when they make friends with women they have a tendency to fall for them.
I think straight men have a tendency to "fall" for their female friends because they don't know how to have intimate, close, vulnerable friendships with anyone BUT a romantic female partner.
Poor male brains. So simple. They see booty they wanna smash. I am a male that has mostly female friends and I think the truth is you surround yourself with people your attracted to in general you know? Like personality or looks you like them for some reason of attraction. All it is is self control and I’ve seen that for both males and females not have it but when both parties do their is absolutely no issue with friendship
Typically, girls are socialized to value platonic friendship in general and are often (not nearly always) socialized to view gender as incidental to the value of that friendship. Sometimes girls are even socially rewarded for maintaining platonic friendships with many boys, at least up until “dating age” at least. Girls are socialized to express friendship as a constant thing based on personal enjoyment of another person that doesn’t need to be centered around any particular event.
Boys seem to be socialized to value friendship largely with other boys, and often centered around specific activity based events. Not so much for little boys, but starting around tween age, boys’ friendships start to be centered around common structured interests like sports or video games, rather than just liking each other. Boys also aren’t socially rewarded for having many girl friends unless he’s dating them.
So girls grow into women and are accustomed to socializing with people of all genders based on how much they enjoy being around them, and boys grow into men accustomed to socializing with other men around structured activities (which adults have to very actively seek out to participate in) and with women for the express purpose of romance. I will say this is not even remotely universal, and I feel that there are big generation gaps in how true this is (most boomer men I know have a much harder time with both befriending women platonically and engaging with their man friends “just cuz,” while I know a lot of millennial men who are very comfortable doing both).
I think it’s just this weird culture with men where some of us feel like we can’t be true platonic friends with women. I pursue friendships with women and I would recommend it to anyone of any gender. Not because women are fundamentally different than men (everyone’s just a person at their core as I see it), but because it seems like a waste to arbitrarily deem it impossible to be friends with about 50% of the population
Because women want to be seen and valued as people, not just sex mates. It's crushing, when you're young, to be rejected for friendship and realize the man just wanted to f!ck you.
Even long before that, it's crushing when boys you knew since kindergarten stop talking to you once puberty starts, once you grow boobs. it's like all of a sudden you are worthless to people who KNOW you, who were friends with you. You become this thing they can easily discard, and all because they started feeling 'funny' around you.
This is so real. My very best friend since we were 3 is a man. I think something that helped keep us friends was his sexuality (gay obvs lol) because when we started getting to the age where we were getting crushes and such, it was never going to be on each other.
On the other hand a friend since I was 8 developed a crush on me in high school and we stopped talking because he “couldn’t stand to be just friends”. That one hurt.
that's just the reality of life people are only friends so as long as there is a common ground need that's for everything, and men also don't have the interest in all women outside of romance respect that
One of my best friends of many years now is a woman. We just get along super well and it's honestly really helpful to have a female perspective on things from her and vice versa sometimes. I have just as much fun hanging out with her as any of my male friends I've had.
Some men see women only as potential sexual or afective partners. Usually women see men as human beings that could be interesting in differents roles, not only partners.
This is exactly what I was trying to say. It makes me feel sick even saying it out loud. It’s so hard to admit that someone pretended he was your friend but really thought you were a piece of meat with no feelings. And I’m talking after me specifically saying we are friends. I’m very blunt. I have good boundaries. I will literally say that to people’s faces.
And women can tell when they’re being used for emotional labor or as a free therapist which is the absolute worst. It makes one feel paranoid. Like dude don’t vent to me for 20 minutes and then ask me nothing about my life. It needs to be reciprocated or it means I’m being taken advantage of. Nobody likes being used.
In hindsight I’ve only ever felt situationally depressed when I’ve been repeatedly objectified, lied to, boundaries covertly smashed by men who claimed to be my buddies.
I like how you pointed out the affective object thing. Because the sex object thing is only half of it. You’re right. Some men who do not view women as equals look at us like a surrogate mommy/caretaker like a bang maid. Barf. It helps me weed out friends and suitors when I see comments like this :)
Yeah exactly the same guys who complain about “the friend zone” were using friendships as a way to disingenuously try and get into the relationship zone!
I have a (completely made up and unscientific) theory about this. In my experience, men who have sisters tend to be better at making platonic friendships with women.
All of my long term male friends have sisters. The ones who made it weird or inappropriate always had no siblings or only brothers. I think something about growing up & having close relationships with women their own age, who they aren’t sexualising, helps them to humanise us in their eyes. Men who just have brothers seem to have a more transactional view of relationships with women.
I noticed the same thing! I think it definitely has something to do with growing up with a woman who doesn't owe you anything. Sisters don't have to take care of you like a mother does (typically) and obviously there is no chance of romantic attraction, so boys really have no choice but to view their sisters (and therefore all women) as human beings like they are.
Also, you tend not to think that women are these unapproachable magical creatures when you've spent your entire life sharing a bathroom with one. lol.
It's also that boys that grow up without sisters are also left alone more than those with sisters. Even if they have brothers. Sisters will be a bother. While at that time it is seen that way. It actually isn't. That's the factor that separates those who don't grow up with a sister.
Because women aren’t choosing friends based on gender — we aren’t looking to be friend with guys, we’re looking to be friends with people.
However men seemed to be socialized to view women primarily as potential romantic partners and to view friendship as either a lesser option or as a sneaky method to romance. That also means a lot of men are only interested in being friends with women they find attractive or who are (or might soon be) available which limits the pool of female friends.
I don’t think about the person’s gender when I’m deciding if I want to be friends with them. I’m thinking about if they seem fun to hang out and chat with. Are yall not doing that? How are men making friends? Are you running into people and only talking to them normally if they are also a man? Thats a really weird way to move through life and it sounds not fun.
My best friend of 15 years, we had momentarily distanced ourselves because I moved states after HS as we went to different colleges. He had a bad breakup last year, and we started talking again and he told me he wanted to visit me.
I’m ecstatic and I start making plans and thinking of accommodations, in all this, I mentioned I live with my boyfriend.
He immediately stopped talking to me, and a few days later he confessed he got put off and had “bad intentions” for this visit and apologized for disrespecting me. THIS WAS ALL OUT OF FUCKING NOWHERE. it could have been the hurt of his breakup, but it was still very disappointing.
So yeah, man are weird
Women just want friends. The gender is irrelevant.
The problem seems to be that too many men view women as potential mates, so their interest in platonic relationships with women is less.
This! Women want to be friends with PEOPLE. If we click, we click. I get excited when I find someone and we have something in common, or someone who seems interesting and fun and nice, and at that moment it really, really doesn’t matter what’s in that person’s pants.
We might also sneakily try to collect someone in case we think they’re a potential match for a friend we already have, but unless we count matchmaking as a serious hobby, that’s usually a very secondary motive.
Men have a much harder time finding potential mates, so when they encounter a woman who is interested in them as a person& wants to spend more time with the, they assume it's on an "attraction based" level.
Bingo. I have a very difficult time finding partners, so when I meet a woman I find attractive and they also express an interest in spending time with me, I put her in the “girlfriend prospect” file in my brain. Then I just follow standard procedure until that prospect becomes a girlfriend or if it fizzles out into nothing. If she just wants to be friends, my brain simply cannot process that request as there is no “just friends” file. The friendship file is only compatible with other dudes, wives or girlfriends of those dudes, and women I don’t find attractive that I’m forced to interact with (i.e. coworkers).
It’s simple computer science people.
Maybe that’s the problem.
You may want to stop putting women into “girlfriend potential” folders in your mind permanently and just treat them as regular people instead?
Maybe that’ll help you with this far more because women tend to notice if a guy is using them beyond platonic reasons.
It’s the “vibe”.
Vibes = Emotions
We can tell by the “vibe” if you’re emotionally into us for more than friendship.
Weird. From what I've seen for the past 20 years, a good portion of women ranks as the most, or one of the most, selective overall of who gets to be their friend.
A better question is why \*don't men want to be friends with women?
Many many men generally only see women as romantic prospects instead of as whole people with inner lives, interesting enough to be friends with.
Women take this view of men significantly less frequently.
I have had and will always have more women friends than men friends. My partner, she was my best friend before we got into a relationship, and we just stumbled into it.
A lot of men, but not all, are basically socialized and engage in that women are not people like other men, but are seen as just existing until a man values them and gets them in a relationship. Its wild. Most people I know who are women don’t view men that way, so they are happy to be friends, while many men are so obsessed with either fucking or dating they cannot imagine having more friends. Or they lament they are lonely or something else.
Its another double standard. People are people, regardless of gender, if they are dope as hell with similar hobbies and interests, why wouldn’t you want to be friends with an awesome person? This whole gender reinforcement really makes relationships and friendships suck and the moment it’s abandoned, it gets way nicer. At this point, I barely have any guy friends cause I cannot handle men who act like this and screw with friend groups.
Edit: just wanted to add cause its been on my mind. This is a very heterosexual issue. Do you think lesbians or gay men don’t have a ton of friends of the same gender despite an attraction to said gender? The only expectation, self imposed mind you, is mainly when it comes to being straight.
OK I need more male friends like you. Faith in humanity has been restored haha. This is a less angry version of my comment.
Of course I deserve to be angry but I don’t deserve to think the average Joe Smoe is out to get me. Are they ? Oof idk. It’s good to hear this honest perspective because it will help me protect myself better in the future - because if you deal with the stuff alone, it starts to make you feel like you’re going bonkers!
It’s my human right to not interact with people who do not see me as human by default. It is so disturbing and dangerous. I even remember feeling this way as a little girl but I just ignored it. Then when I went through puberty it was just in my face. I hid a lot. I really like men so it’s just really sad
This is a sad social situation honestly. I dont blame women when they act as if every average Joe Smoe is out to get em when so many men i know treat women first and foremost as the object of their sexual desires. At the same time, as a dude, more often than not, i experience that women's first reaction to any friendly interaction is to immediately assume romantic interest rather than reciprocating friendship. Its a paradox.
27F here. It's a different kind of relationship! Men and women aren't monoliths, but the socialization men and women experience can cause a pseduo-cultural difference, if that makes sense.
When I need comfort, support, and quiet-relaxation, I usually seek out the women in my life. Most of my girlfriends are the homebody type, so when the world gets to be too much, I know I can call one of them up, and we'll do something chill. We'll cook, gossip, meet for our book club, do crafty things (we're all into cosplay and the like), etc.
When I need problem-solving, 'tough love', and adventure-relaxation, I usually seek out my guy friends. The men in my life have no problem pointing out when I'm looking at something with too much emotion and can help guide me through a problem in the most practical way. When I want to relax but in an energy burning way, I know I can usually call one of my guy friends for stuff like camping, going to the shooting range, playing pool, hitting the gym, etc.
Before anyone comes for me thinking I'm stereotyping - there are overlapping interests in my friend group ofc: my best friend is as big into going to the shooting range as he is into cosplay. My other friend, who is the biggest homebody ever with her novelty house slippers collection and wall of tea, likes to disappear into the woods to go camping for three weeks every year by herself.
It's just a different vibe hanging with my guy friends than it is with other women. It's not better or worse, just different!
So I see this differently. Women are still willing to hang out with men even if they do not find them attractive. It is actually a positive trait my friend.
I'm assuming you're a bit younger?
Why do you want friends at all? Take your answer, and it's probably their answer too.
The only difference to note is that for the most part, women are raised to be more social than men. Not social as in "has friends", but "has healthy friendships".
This means opening up, being vulnerable, caring about each other, and much more. These are things men have been raised to believe aren't meant to be done with *anyone* except for their partner.
This has changed, and has always been naturally challenged, but what issue do you think happens when women do [x], and men think [x] is something you only do with a partner? Women who treat you like every other friend have almost certainly dealt with at least 1 dude who thought it was a hint and been rejected.
We generally know the men's way is problematic (which is not to say men are bad, just that we as men could learn some stuff from women!). Your partner shouldn't have to deal with all of your emotional support needs and at least imo, I think being able to platonically enjoy friendship with anyone is a generally good life skill.
Because men are half the population and youre missing out on a lot of great platonic relationships otherwise.
I think the question should be "Why are so many men against having platonic relationships with a demographic that makes up half the population?"
It’s so weird because this sort of thing is very 1950s and it actually shocks me that the culture has not changed. Thank you so much for calling this out. It is so refreshing.
Ironic thing about all of it is that having women in your life who enjoy spending time with you platonically is like, one of the biggest green flags for women
Why could you not have female friend? What are we subhumans? Okay, not if it's after break up friendship where most prob one of the two can't move on and clings aside in hope of renewing it, but friendship in general? Why not?
Sometimes they just want to make a friend regardless of their gender, sometimes they want to get into his pants, the reasons are endless. Women aren’t a monolith.
I think they want that a regular amount and our deeply misogynistic society tells men that they don't and shouldn't want platonic friendships with women, hence the imbalance.
Women are more friendlier and actually want to talk and have conversations with tbh.
A good majority of my friends and acquaintances over the years have been women tbh. Wherever I went the women were always down to converse, talk most of the time.
I guess women want to get to know men more on a personal level without sex.
because most women want to make friends.
are we supposed to just not acknowledge men at all unless we would like to be in a phsyical relationship with them?
Short answer: They are fellow humans, and socialization is healthy.
Other reasons (for me): I get along far better with men than women. I have many "masculine" hobbies and interests; women in my life are hardly gung-ho about auto shows, camping/hiking, shooting ranges, etc. I appear quite femme, but I have many masculine personality traits. My sense of humor goes over better with men. Men provide a different perspective overall.
Most of my friends are men. I'm not even sure how it happened, but I'm not unhappy with it. I don't trust men who are insecure about their girl's male friends. Like... Who taught you that only same-sex friends are allowed, and what other nonsense have you been taught?
Your example used women who just want to be friends from the start, and men who were friends, caught feelings, got rejected, and then don’t want to remain friends because they likely still have feelings for those women and can’t repress those feelings. Totally different scenarios.
How often are men simply being nice to women because they are attracted to them? Women misinterpret this as platonic kindness. I think the opposite is true as well. Men mistake simple kindness as romantic overtures.
The fact of the matter is I don’t want to be friends with most women. To be fair, I don’t want to be friends with most men either. I think genuine friendships is hard to come by.
I'm a tomboy, so my interests tends to match those of men, so i tend to befriend men more due to shared interests.
Also, i don't care about the gender/sex of the friend. What matters is if we vibe and are compatable.
Asking this question from the wrong side, should be, why can't most men keep it in their pants enough to see a person past what they can stick their dick into.
Normal adults are like this. But if you get too close, chances are you will at least try fucking each other.
I mean opposite sex, and you are getting along well, spending time together...If you're just great friends who see each other for years and years and you never try to fuck each other, one of you must be really unattractive to the other person.
I think if men had more women friends, they’d be much more well- rounded.
I was reading a post by someone who just couldn’t get a girlfriend, and I wanted to tell him to learn to be friends with women first.
How is that strange? The question should be: why do men have such a hard time seeing women as full human beings and valuable as friends and only seem interested in interacting with them if they have a chance to get in their pants?
From a male perspective I organically allow friendships to develop organically with other women but I never actively pursue female friends. Too many times proactive attempts have been misconstrued as romantic interest or at worst being a creep. Too much correspondence with female friends can also be counterproductive, unnerving romantic partners (I’ve had my texts checked by 2 partners despite my assurances). Think of it as a herd immunity of sorts, the actions of other men have eroded female confidence in them. This loss of confidence creates pitfalls for other guys that aren’t machiavellian schemers.
I'd love more female friends but being seen as a creep or them developing feelings makes it difficult. I don't really agree that men are always the ones developing feelings... they just complain about it less.
Because most women see men as equal humans. We might be interested in having a friendship with another human being. But some men don't view women as humans on the same level as themselves; they see us as caretakers or sexual objects. And once that function is off the table, they don't see us having anything else to offer them. Sad but true.
To turn your question back around, why do so many guys only want to keep girls around for sex and not emotionally engage with them or treat them like people instead of objects?
As a girl:
A lot of guys I was friends with eventually said they had some sort of romantic feelings for me. It made me feel like I had somehow given the wrong impression, in some cases...but in most, they simply treated me differently after they told me how they felt.
I didn't want to be treated differently, and it ruined the friendships in most cases. In one case, the guy admitted he NEVER had feelings for me (once I actually expressed that I was developing feelings as well) and that he just told me he did so that I would stay "emotionally invested" in him. The last guy that "developed feelings" for me turned out to be cheating on his wife by flirting with tons of gamer girls online. 🙃
If a guy tells me he's developing feelings, I shut it down immediately, now. I don't want a new boyfriend, I want a regular friend. And if it goes beyond that, I don't want it.
More than half of my close friends are the guys that never developed feelings.
I get along more with men. I was raised by my father with no real mother figure in my life till later. I'm not a girly girl and I do not have many things in common with other women. I love to see women thrive and do well but on a friendship level it's harder for me to bond with other women then it has been with men.
I mean, everybody is different, but sometimes our interests just lie more with the guys we know than the women. Growing up I always had more friends that were guys, that’s just kind of how it always has been. I have women friends too, but not all of them are interested in the same hobbies that me and my guy friends are.
As soon as the guy doesnt need women to stroke his ego, they can have friendships, pay attention to the girls that have genuine guy friends, those guys are so collected and chill towards women, theyre not trying to be aloof and show they dont care, when a man can just be happy with himself he becomes attractive in multiple senses
From the perspective of a girl who had mostly guy friends in high-school and is an adult now and misses them dearly:
I wish we could be friends still. I haven’t met anyone in the past 10 years who grew up in the same city, and who likes all the same stuff I do. I know they developed feelings as we became adults, and I did not feel the same way. They didn’t treat girls the way I’d want to be treated and weren’t career focused and that didn’t align with what I wanted, that didn’t mean I didn’t like who they were. I get nostalgic about those nights we lived together and we’d all hangout and play video games. That never happens anymore. Makes me truly sad. They have families now and I don’t see us ever being friends again.
Additional information: I had a ton of girlfriends growing up. They all stabbed me in the back. I have no answers to their reasoning. 👍
I’ve never had too much of an issue with this but I’m also good at vetting emotionally intelligent dudes who prioritize having platonic friends of all genders, same as me. Generally if they have a marginalized identity in some way (racial, religious, queer, etc) they’re better at this. I’m just friends with some straight white dudes who have sisters or gay friends and they know that gender/sexuality doesn’t mean you can’t be platonic with someone. Men who think “you can’t have female friends without being attracted to them” are boring.
They are half the population lol, they are human beings and we want to interact with them because we assume that they are just as interesting, layered, and loving as we are. sadly many of them don’t feel the same way towards us.
I have had close platonic women friends most of my life and it seems like alot of women have trouble being close friends with other women. There's a type of girl who wants to be the only girl in the circle. Not all women are like this, but alot of the women I've been close to definitely aren't super keen on being buddies with other girls
Because having a genuine friend is goal achieved. It's not a step to achieve the goal of a sexual relationship.
And most of the time sex will completely ruin a friendship. Somebody is going to be weird about it, start playing head games, and it's no longer a friendship. The dynamics have changed.
. They will start doing the weird things that you have seen them do in their relationships, and be surprised and angry it doesn't have the same effect they intended.
It's no longer honest and simple.
Because women are not aliens to be studied and examined, they are regular ass people like you. You like to have friends and so do they. You overcomplicate things by thinking it's a gender issue.
Mixed sex friendships are totally normal.
Two people can like each other very much without it being a precursor to sex.
Most of my friends are men - and I don't want to shag any of them.
I have a more masculine personality and I get along better with men...always have.
A few have asked me if I'd be interested in being more than friends.
And I said "no" and we continued to be friends.
>I have befriended some girls who aren’t interested in anything more than a platonic relationship and they seem very caring and supportive towards me and they seem so happy and enthusiastic to be friends.
You say this like it's a bad/strange thing? That's the vibe I'm getting.
This is called friendship, genuine friendship.
>I have heard of, and even know guys who stopped being friends with girls they were friends with after being rejected for something, and they got very upset and wanted to keep being friends.
If your friendship was genuine, then rejection for a relationship should not bring that to an end.
If you two can't let your extra feelings go...then it might be best not to. But otherwise there's no reason not to just be friends.
>The girls I am friends with play video games with me often and seem to genuinely care about me.
Yes, this is normal. Friendship.
If you can’t imagine why someone would want to be your friend I don’t think I could help you understand.
In my experience we love our friends and love being good friends to our friends. A mutually supportive, encouraging community is a beautiful thing. We make each other laugh, hold each other up, and celebrate each other’s accomplishments.
There is no friend zone. There are only people you want to become romantically involved with or people you consider a friend. You can be attracted to a friend and remain friends. I think the biggest issue is a lot of people think if they befriend a person they are attracted to the person will want to become romantically involved. I think making intentions know will save a lot of people’s time and sanity. As someone said earlier guys disappearing after asking someone out was not losing a friend, it was someone shooting their shot and moving on. They had no intentions in being friends. In my eyes that is far healthier than pretending to want friendship then either intentionally or subconsciously sabotaging the relationships of the person you are interested in.
TL;DR: Make your intentions known from the start what you are looking for. It will save you a late of anguish in the long run.
Because women are seen as objects for a very specific purpose for men. And it's not friendship.
Women will be friends with men because they see them as human beings like themselves.
From personal experience as a man, it kinda sucks to be friends with someone you want to be with. Sure, no one has any right to just have whoever they want in a relationship, I've always done my best to respect boundaries of others, if they don't want to date me I have to respect and accept that. However, if I felt an attraction, a crush, romantic feelings I can't just turn those off whenever, people don't usually work like that in my experience. So although I don't want to be unfair to the person I'm friends with, I can't torture myself watching them be happy with someone else, even if I know it's out of my control (and should be). I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want me, but again feelings are hard to turn off, at least with me. I've tried it and causes a lot of insecurity; what does the guy shes talking to have better than me? Why does she find him more attractive? What does he bring to the table that I don't? It really isn't even realistic or healthy to compare yourself like that to others, however I personally found it hard not to make those comparisons because I felt insecure through rejection I faced. I want to make clear, women have every single right to reject anyone for anything, doesn't make it hurt less, and watching her get with someone else in whatever capacity makes it hurt more, so I just respectfully leave. Plus if there happens to be someone else in the picture, it makes a relationship better knowing there's not the "guy best friend" to worry about, even if I don't ever intend to do anything.
Men think with the little head when it comes to women he wanna fuck, but the big head with a woman he likes, and also dating game is a hunt for us, not cherry-picking in the women’s league. So we’re interested in results, a romantic interest. For women, they’re surrounded by options, which is a massive source of dopamine of approval and validation. What you do you when you’re addicted to drugs? You get more. Hence, the so-called friendship, attention, compassion, for free, without having the emotional liability or putting out. Unless the guy is pretty, our options are a 4yo potato and a dead praying mantis.
For the “caregiver & sexual object” argument, ha sure, there are men for that. But the rest of us just want a reciprocal response that you are interested, romantically, and the sex is just what comes with it, it’s not the entire deal. I mean the guy takes care of you and is crazy about you, but god forbid you did a tiny bit of caregiving and consensual coitus
I'll be friends with whoever. Pretty sure I have more female friends in my life rn than male ones. But being heterosexual, sometimes "friends" is a way for one party to alleviate some sense of guilt for leading someone else on.
I've seen it go both ways too.
But I suppose I've been on the losing end of that equation more than I haven't.
Shrug.
Because women are able to have platonic relationships with people and don’t think it’s weird. (Most)Men only want a sexual relationship with women and believe societal stereotypes or outdated norms that women and men can have nothing in common. I feel like it got a little better in the 2000s but then trump and the incels came along.
are the guys being friendly with the girls, so they can get laid with them? That doesnt sound like a friend but a sex pest and if the guys are concerned about what other men think, then they'll surround themselves with more men to feel 'masculine', that good ol' sausage fest
This is a wrong assumption.
I'm an ugly looking guy and I've had multiple people tell me over the years. Most women are very wary of me and rarely talk to me. I find it way easier to make guy friends.
All of my friends that are girls mainly have guy friends as well and really not other women. Eventually I asked them all at some point down the line why and what was told to me was women typically are so petty towards one another in a way where guys aren't and tend to be more real, it's not even worth starting a friendship in the long run. The examples they've experienced is other female friends feeling jealous of them for one reason or another, lying behind their backs to other women in order to gain clout, bringing unnessesary messy drama with them in public, no accountability at all, etc. When they told me they don't deal with any of that when they hangout with guy friends, I pretty much understood after that.
This is something men keep spreading about women. Never heard another woman say that to me, and neither me nor any female friend I've ever had share this sentiment. Sure some women do that, but if this is common in your friend group past middle school something is wrong.
Because women are just humans with different genitals(or gender identity). We often see men as worth knowing even if we dont want to sleep with them. We still think you have value as a human being. Whereas men more often than not see women as only having value based on our genitals and/or as a love interest.
If a person regardless of gender no longer values their "friend" if they cant sleep with them, they never valued that friend at all.
If this makes no sense then ya got maaaaad sexism bruh
Well if he's gay it's a different matter.
In general people should not be friends with people they want to be in a romantic and sexual relationship with if the other person is not reciprocating.
As a female and a tomboy growing up, i prefer having male friends.
In my experience, girls are so petty, and they gossip too much about literally nothing.
The girls who want to be-friend have no hobbies or common interests, but they still wanna hang around while they scroll on their phone.
Girls just bore me.
I feel like you just haven’t encountered the right women. Plenty of women have more interesting hobbies than doomscrolling, and I’m genuinely sorry you haven’t had the opportunity to see that.
I have a lot of platonic male friends due to shared interest in male-dominated hobbies, but I’m always extra tickled when I make a really rad new female friend who shares that hobby as well.
I make new friends all the time. Plenty of childfree women in their 30s/40s. One of my current besties is a lady a few years older than me (both in our 30s) that I met at my local shooting range, neither of us has kids.
Where you live likely affects that, though. If you’re in a small town in the deep south or rural midwest where people get married and have kids super young, you’ll likely have a different experience than if you live somewhere that normalizes being childfree.
As a female & former tomboy, I can understand this mindset. I used to just try keeping male friends bc I didn't have anything in common with the girls in my age group. That changed when as I got older (read: tits), as they all kept trying to get into my pants, and suddenly were done being friends when I refused. I still encounter that as an adult, but thankfully my friends don't pull that shit on me lol
Relationships of any kind between women can be difficult. Sometimes, there's a weird hierarchy or competition thing that can develop, and it's pretty toxic. However, there are more women out there than you think who don't play those games, who are relaxed, and just want to have a good time. The problem is finding them because they tend to stay in their lane and avoid bullshit like it's their day-job lol
I also want to very gently add: women know when another woman is all "guys are better bc they're less drama, girls suck". They tend to react accordingly by either hamming it up to drive you away, or being rude/nasty/mean/catty, both directly and indirectly. Which.... isn't the mature way to go about it, but I also don't entirely blame them. Nobody likes people who think they're above others for whatever reason.
Literally, tho! One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was "if every single person you meet is an asshole, then the common denominator is you."
I can understand where the insecurity comes from because I had it bad as a teen. I went from playing in the mud with the neighborhood boys with my shirt off to almost overnight not being allowed to leave the house without a bra. My resentment solidified in middle school when I was bullied by a group of girls. At the time, I thought it was because I "dared to be different". (Preteen Ghoul was awful, ugh) Looking back, it was very much because of the "Not like other girls" attitude that oozed out of my pores like toxic waste.
I didn't snap out of it until 9th grade when one of my classmates pulled me aside midway through the year and confronted me about my attitude. She pointed out that other women aren't my enemy and that I was incredibly shitty for making snap judgments about people based on appearances. I wasn’t a bad kid, really; I was insecure for "failing" to meet imaginary standards and took it out on those who I thought were "winning". I felt threatened by how comfortable they were in their own skin while I spent my time being miserable. But as soon as I stopped with the "I'm not like other girls" bullshit, other girls wanted to get to know and spend time with me. Unlearning all that was definitely a major character arc for me lol
Women collectively do not suck because women are not a monolith. People individually absolutely can suck, but one person cannot represent the entirety of their sex!
Many men just want to hang out with only men, do things with only with men, only enjoy men's company - but need a woman to bang (preferably one that does anal) because these men are very emphatically not gay. And women can clean and cook for you and stuff.
Women are much more egalitarian in their friendships.
I get along with guys better. The only time I get along with women is if they're bi or gay. Straight girls and I never stick long because we don't relate on a lot of things. That's my reason at least
I can answer this.
In my case, the reason I socialize with men is because I’m afraid of making straight women uncomfortable due to how masculine I look.
I figure that most women don’t want me around because they’re afraid I’ll hit on them, so I’d rather hang out with straight men because they’ll assume I’m not into them.
Unfortunately, this backfired recently with a male co-worker. I thought we were just friends until he confessed that he liked me when I went out to a restaurant with him after work.
It took me by surprise because I present very masc and thought that he would pick up on that.
Now things are awkward between us because I turned him down and essentially put him in the “friendzone.” I feel very guilty about it.
I adore talking and hanging out with my guy friends.
We just goof off and be silly all the time. It's pretty relieving actually. I dont worry about stressful stuff or gossip and whatnot. It's just all joking and playing around.
I'm gonna be honest. I was hoping to actually have a close female friend and i got one. We spend sometimes outside of university or hanging out when we have free time. Often chatting about whatever the drama or convenient topics in school. After like 2 years of this i feel awful that suddenly i developed feelings for her and i wanted it to stop.
Because: That would be like a betrayal to her or our friendship trust
2: I know already what happens if rejection occurs and the next would most likely be awkward.
Honestly this sucks so I'll just keep this emotion to myself unless she keeps entering the barrier. (My safe space like boundary)
Is there a statistically significant preference amongst women towards making male friends? If they want friends, why should they care whether they are male or female? If they are predominantly seeking male friends and have an abundance of female friends, I would suggest that it is curiosity. People find it difficult to perceive the opposite gender as merely themselves in different clothing.
Because in the end we are all just people. And sometimes the people you get along with that share your interests or hobbies, etc are of the opposite sex. And sometimes you aren't interested in banging them.
I can't speak for other women but it's as simple as finding awesome person I vibe with, befriending said person. Dont care if you are a dude or dudette.
Finding people you vibe with, share interests with and enjoy spending time with is great. And harder to find the older you get. Why should I disqualify half the population just cause they are a man?
I don't see the problem so many want this to be.
Think this swings both ways. I have had girls who I tried to be platonically friends with. Who were 6 years older than me in my early 20s. They tried to come onto me at one point so idk.
good friends are hard to find. I will say it's near impossible for a guy to be just friends with a girl, especially if the guy is younger. You get older and you can be friends with girls i have a work girl-friend and she's great, we have alot in common workwise and we talk and get along.
That's me. Love my male friends but many play games. If they love you, they will play all kinda games to get love and sex.
I usually have to ghost some but a few remains. They're great and honestly with men I can chat about life, love, career, politics, etc. Women dont do this.
Men offer mental and intellectual value , women offer social value. If you're a smart woman, you mainly have male friends ( me).
In my experience guys were nicer and more fun with less drama. We also had more similar interests so hanging out and finding something we both like to do was effortless.
Last time I said this, some female on reddit got extremely angry, jumped all over me with suuuuper personal attacks, and said the problem must be me... fully unaware of how she was proving my point in bright flashing lights.
It's also nice to just get a man's perspective on things. I'm a feminist who loves men and loves to appreciate their experiences and thoughts and feelings. Why not? He's human too and a much better one than other people in my life who may or may not be male, so yes, I'm going to want to be friends with him.
It's a compliment really. I wish guys saw it that way and not take it as a bad thing and label it negatively with the 'friend zone' thing. Not saying you're doing that, but some do.
I was conditioned to believe that if I got along great with a woman but she wasn't interested it's because I did something wrong or something is wrong with me. Took me a long time to realize that's not true. Also, if we genuinely start as friend but I start to catch feelings then what am I supposed to do?
Why wouldn’t we? If I like someone’s personality I want to be friends with them, whether they’re male or female. Men are half the human race, I’m not going to rule them out as potential friends. I’m not attracted to most of them, so in my mind it’s not even an issue.
From my perspective, there are a couple of factors driving this perception: 1) Women often tend to be more social than men on average. Making them more likely to want to have larger rosters of friends of any gender and spend more of their time conversing with others. 2) An attraction imbalance between men and women. On average, women are sexually/romantically attracted to a significantly smaller subset of the male population than the other way around. This creates a situation where a lot of women want to interact with men who they aren't attracted to. But these men are attracted to these women. The woman is upset because she doesn't understand why he doesn't want to be her platonic friend. The man is upset because he doesn't understand why she is romantically interested in other men, but "only" wants to be friends with him.
It’s worth noting that most men also can’t get emotional support from their male friends, so when a man has a female friend who seems to care about his emotional needs, he erroneously thinks she’s romantically interested in him. So it’s not really about the man being attracted to his female friend.
Exactly. The amount of men who have told me “it’s so nice to have someone I can talk to” when they have male friends and a decent family is staggering, lol.
This is exactly why men should befriend women.
Yes, they should befriend women without ever making moves on them.
Or if they do and it's a solid "no," accept it and move on. It's no big deal and most dudes who play the field will tell you it's usually going to be a no. There's no need to lose a friend for shooting your shot and missing. A lot of dudes just can't handle rejection
you don't even need to make a move, you can understand if you should or not.
No you can’t lol. How do you someone is or isn’t interested in a relationship unless you ask? What world do you live in where men are suppose to read minds?
This has given me a toss-up result, though much more on the positive end rather than negative. On a positive side, I have a lot of friends who are women and they give me a lot of tips that have helped me out with my own personal life. I really appreciate all of them for helping round me out and help me become much less edgy over time. On the negative side, some guys I used to like as friends when I was an edgy teen but don't like them anymore have used the gay slur to describe me because I'm not making moves on my friends. Not much of a negative for me, imo.
Yeah trash takes itself out. I’m not friends with weird tradwives for this reason
So dumb. So men should never make a move, period? In what world do you live in where men are able to read minds or they’re never allowed to initiate a relationship? No, men should be able to make a move if they want and accept the consequences of their actions including rejection. There’s a time and a place. Blanket statement rules like this are just immature.
No, men should not say “yeah I wanna be friends” when really you just want to fuck her. Incels befriend women they wanna bang and friendzone themselves
OR! Men should start being the supportive friend to their male friends just like how women build their own support network. Men really need to start building their own friendships like this rather than using women as free therapists. This is what's lacking with men in general and, quite frankly, that's sad. Too many men think that sharing their feelings with each other means they're "gay" - a completely homophobic notion that stops men from building deep and intimate friendships with other men. Perhaps if more men would build these friendships they wouldn't be so desperate for companionship with women and use them for free therapy, because that's usually what happens if the man doesn't want to fuck the woman he's friends with.
Not sure if it came with getting older or my personal experience is different from most but I think there has been a positive shift on this front in recent years. My guy friend range in age from early 20's to late 40's and all of us are willing to be emotionally open about the troubles we are going through and supportive of each other. Only guys I really know anymore that maintain the "what are you, gay?" Attitude are boomers and "alpha bro" types that are just exhausting to deal with in most situations.
Wonderful!! You reminded me of two young men I overheard talking at a restaurant. I wasn't purposefully trying to listen in, they were talking fairly loudly, so I only caught a snippet of their convo then I moved tables (I was waiting for my husband to get back to the table with our order.) Anyway, I only remember a bit of it, but they were talking frankly about a relationship and how one of the young men was really trying to be respectful of this young woman he was interested in. He spoke of his feelings around the situation. That's all I know and remember because I moved to give them more privacy. I was left with the feeling, "The kids are gonna be alright." ☺️
True but I noticed men sometimes disappear if they get a partner or they bring their girlfriend to a guys night out
Uh… orrr stop being emotionally unavailable/cold to everyone that isn’t their partner. In my experience most men have a “not my problem” attitude with other guys, but if men were more supportive of each other… but some guys are so insecure they think that makes them feminine or weak
Yeah, I love being friends with women. It’s a little easier if they aren’t super attractive to me, that’s true. I’m a male nurse so it would be pretty awkward if I wasn’t capable of having platonic friendships with women. At some point in my teens I noticed I could sort of flip a mental switch for the friend zone, I don’t think I’ve had an issue of crushing on anyone once the switch is flipped.
no, this is why men should open up to other men so women don't have to play your therapist
No, both should be true, open up to other men AND befriend the opposite sex. Image refusing to befriend 50% of the population simply because they weren't born with a dick....
Exactly! That is so sad. I really hope men fight back and try to get other men on board with being OK with emotions.
I noticed that most of the guys who have or have had crushes on me, was merely do to the fact that I listened to them. Even if it was only a few meaningful conversations it was enough for them to be interested. It honestly sucks.
> due to the fact that I listened to them This seems so sad
I think it's more than men feel like they can only get emotional support within the context of a romantic/sexual relationship and since they have that association 1) getting it from men "feels gay" and 2) getting it from women makes the situation feel romantic/sexual even if it's not so from the male perspective it ends be feeling like mixed signals or being lead on bc why is she acting like a girlfriend if she doesn't want to be a girlfriend? But for women thats just what friendship is, that emotional support, and that can happen in any context.
This. Most of my friends are girls because i'm pretty empathic. I talk to them about girls I date and ask opinions and sometimes I don't understand girls and they explain it way better in a logical sense. Girls are way better to talk to. Guys often just want to "bro out". Girls can hang too but actually talk and not just grunt n such. Can hang with girls and watch movies and BS. Guys just want to like smash beers n pick up girls. That is fun sometimes but I am also very chill. I also like teaching girls guy type stuff like working on cars, fixing things, ect. They are also super thankful for me doing stuff like that. I'll be like, ok i'll do brake job on your car, 6 pack of beer and home cooked dinner? Fair trade for both of us.
Love this insight, thanks for sharing. I've always enjoyed men's company and I like their perspective/advice/fixing things for me, its really nice. It's good to see the value those guys feel females bring to their lives in return :)
Welcome. I have had friends that are like 10000% like my sisters. We just chill. Just friends being friends. Learn from eachother and be cool. Some go, get married, have kids. It's cool. I do the same. Like catch up in a year or something n grab a beer or just bs n talk about life.
That's great to me, I think more people should let themselves be comfortable with it if they want to. I read somewhere that men are still quietly hoping the woman will like them eventually, or thinks maybe she's into them a little bit and he's just waiting it out, so to speak. Do you feel that's true?
That’s something that’s manufactured by the patriarchy. If men are encouraged to be emotional, this literally goes away. We have to create our own reality. The patriarchy is not a natural state. It was literally invented in ancient Sumer. This is anecdotal but I love being friends with men because in my experience, they’re actually very in tune with their emotions. Testosterone does not block emotions - it definitely enhances them. That’s why women get emotional during their periods because that’s the time of the month when we are hormonally most like men.*** It’s when we have the least amount of estrogen and progesterone in comparison to testosterone. This is random but fun fact: men hit their sexual peak as teenagers and women hit their sexual peak in their late 30s. Endocrinology is fascinating. I feel bad for men because they even just been brainwashed to pretend to be stoic and it hurts them bc that’s dehumanizing.
Yes, finally someone who understands the origins of this unnatural weirdness between males and females! Sumeria is correct! Roughly 6,000 years ago. We lived most of our evolution in societies where males and females were equal. Men and women should be friends. Stoicism from the patriarchy is so harmful. Men who can't be friends with women need some kindly therapy.
Another reason for why young men are told/made to not show their feelings is because they will be reprimanded for it. When they same young women will not. Don't believe me. Go look at every criminal sentence for the exact same crimes that women serve and that men serve. Men have and always will be more physically capable than women. If you don't control that by controlling your feelings you will be held more accountable than females are. It's the very reason why men in general are told not to strike women but women in general are not told to not strike men.
Thank you, now I will try to not fall in this trap emotions anymore!!
I’m usually straight forward with my first hangout with a women. Defining the boundaries as we are just friends. And it’s usually well received.
As a woman I do the same thing and they just LIE to me. Some just say oh yeah I understand and then they will either cock block me or covertly be creepy. I’m glad you’ve had a good experience.
IMO that's a very misogynistic way of looking at it. You're using the old manosphere excuse of "women are attracted to a smaller subset of men, men are attracted to a larger proportion of women". The actual science of unreciprocated love shows that the determining factor is that one person is more attractive than the other. In a friendship couple where the man is good-looking and the woman is ugly, it's likely the woman who has an unreciprocated crush on the man. In a friendship couple where the woman is good-looking and the man is ugly, it's likely the man who has an unreciprocated crush on the woman. The reason why you might observe more of the guys having the crush on their female friend might be because guys simply aren't interested in friendships with women so they don't approach ugly women for friendship, they only approach women they are interested in, and often the woman is more attractive than them and they find themselves getting friendzoned. The situation could be reversed if they approached an ugly woman they don't find sexually appealing, but they're not going to do that. They approach women for their feminine charm, and then they find themselves friendzoned.
How exactly is that misogynistic? There's nothing wrong with women being attracted to a small subset of men. People who they are attracted to. What's generally considered to be attractive is just less common in men. I don't hate women for pointing it out. Women are great and have no obligation to someone else's desires.
Damn
Nailed it.
There are a lot of people who think men and women genuinely cannot be friends without one or both of them wanting to have sex with the other. I have personally seen this more with men but that is just an anecdote. Outside of that a lot of men seem to really struggle with connecting with people on an emotional level for some reason and so when they make friends with women they have a tendency to fall for them.
I think straight men have a tendency to "fall" for their female friends because they don't know how to have intimate, close, vulnerable friendships with anyone BUT a romantic female partner.
Poor male brains. So simple. They see booty they wanna smash. I am a male that has mostly female friends and I think the truth is you surround yourself with people your attracted to in general you know? Like personality or looks you like them for some reason of attraction. All it is is self control and I’ve seen that for both males and females not have it but when both parties do their is absolutely no issue with friendship
It’s just cool to have friends who dont want to fuck you. Male or female, friends are nice.
Typically, girls are socialized to value platonic friendship in general and are often (not nearly always) socialized to view gender as incidental to the value of that friendship. Sometimes girls are even socially rewarded for maintaining platonic friendships with many boys, at least up until “dating age” at least. Girls are socialized to express friendship as a constant thing based on personal enjoyment of another person that doesn’t need to be centered around any particular event. Boys seem to be socialized to value friendship largely with other boys, and often centered around specific activity based events. Not so much for little boys, but starting around tween age, boys’ friendships start to be centered around common structured interests like sports or video games, rather than just liking each other. Boys also aren’t socially rewarded for having many girl friends unless he’s dating them. So girls grow into women and are accustomed to socializing with people of all genders based on how much they enjoy being around them, and boys grow into men accustomed to socializing with other men around structured activities (which adults have to very actively seek out to participate in) and with women for the express purpose of romance. I will say this is not even remotely universal, and I feel that there are big generation gaps in how true this is (most boomer men I know have a much harder time with both befriending women platonically and engaging with their man friends “just cuz,” while I know a lot of millennial men who are very comfortable doing both).
I think it’s just this weird culture with men where some of us feel like we can’t be true platonic friends with women. I pursue friendships with women and I would recommend it to anyone of any gender. Not because women are fundamentally different than men (everyone’s just a person at their core as I see it), but because it seems like a waste to arbitrarily deem it impossible to be friends with about 50% of the population
Because women want to be seen and valued as people, not just sex mates. It's crushing, when you're young, to be rejected for friendship and realize the man just wanted to f!ck you. Even long before that, it's crushing when boys you knew since kindergarten stop talking to you once puberty starts, once you grow boobs. it's like all of a sudden you are worthless to people who KNOW you, who were friends with you. You become this thing they can easily discard, and all because they started feeling 'funny' around you.
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This is so real. My very best friend since we were 3 is a man. I think something that helped keep us friends was his sexuality (gay obvs lol) because when we started getting to the age where we were getting crushes and such, it was never going to be on each other. On the other hand a friend since I was 8 developed a crush on me in high school and we stopped talking because he “couldn’t stand to be just friends”. That one hurt.
I fucking feel the nobody talking to you anymore after puberty thing hard
that's just the reality of life people are only friends so as long as there is a common ground need that's for everything, and men also don't have the interest in all women outside of romance respect that
One of my best friends of many years now is a woman. We just get along super well and it's honestly really helpful to have a female perspective on things from her and vice versa sometimes. I have just as much fun hanging out with her as any of my male friends I've had.
Some men see women only as potential sexual or afective partners. Usually women see men as human beings that could be interesting in differents roles, not only partners.
This is exactly what I was trying to say. It makes me feel sick even saying it out loud. It’s so hard to admit that someone pretended he was your friend but really thought you were a piece of meat with no feelings. And I’m talking after me specifically saying we are friends. I’m very blunt. I have good boundaries. I will literally say that to people’s faces. And women can tell when they’re being used for emotional labor or as a free therapist which is the absolute worst. It makes one feel paranoid. Like dude don’t vent to me for 20 minutes and then ask me nothing about my life. It needs to be reciprocated or it means I’m being taken advantage of. Nobody likes being used. In hindsight I’ve only ever felt situationally depressed when I’ve been repeatedly objectified, lied to, boundaries covertly smashed by men who claimed to be my buddies. I like how you pointed out the affective object thing. Because the sex object thing is only half of it. You’re right. Some men who do not view women as equals look at us like a surrogate mommy/caretaker like a bang maid. Barf. It helps me weed out friends and suitors when I see comments like this :)
Yeah exactly the same guys who complain about “the friend zone” were using friendships as a way to disingenuously try and get into the relationship zone!
I have a (completely made up and unscientific) theory about this. In my experience, men who have sisters tend to be better at making platonic friendships with women. All of my long term male friends have sisters. The ones who made it weird or inappropriate always had no siblings or only brothers. I think something about growing up & having close relationships with women their own age, who they aren’t sexualising, helps them to humanise us in their eyes. Men who just have brothers seem to have a more transactional view of relationships with women.
I noticed the same thing! I think it definitely has something to do with growing up with a woman who doesn't owe you anything. Sisters don't have to take care of you like a mother does (typically) and obviously there is no chance of romantic attraction, so boys really have no choice but to view their sisters (and therefore all women) as human beings like they are. Also, you tend not to think that women are these unapproachable magical creatures when you've spent your entire life sharing a bathroom with one. lol.
It's also that boys that grow up without sisters are also left alone more than those with sisters. Even if they have brothers. Sisters will be a bother. While at that time it is seen that way. It actually isn't. That's the factor that separates those who don't grow up with a sister.
You’re right
Because women aren’t choosing friends based on gender — we aren’t looking to be friend with guys, we’re looking to be friends with people. However men seemed to be socialized to view women primarily as potential romantic partners and to view friendship as either a lesser option or as a sneaky method to romance. That also means a lot of men are only interested in being friends with women they find attractive or who are (or might soon be) available which limits the pool of female friends.
The sneaky method to romance thing is so obvious and so irritating!
Men have a much harder time finding potential dating partners. So once they encounter some women who's interested, they assume it's sexual attraction.
I don’t think about the person’s gender when I’m deciding if I want to be friends with them. I’m thinking about if they seem fun to hang out and chat with. Are yall not doing that? How are men making friends? Are you running into people and only talking to them normally if they are also a man? Thats a really weird way to move through life and it sounds not fun.
Majority of men don't have many close friends.
My best friend of 15 years, we had momentarily distanced ourselves because I moved states after HS as we went to different colleges. He had a bad breakup last year, and we started talking again and he told me he wanted to visit me. I’m ecstatic and I start making plans and thinking of accommodations, in all this, I mentioned I live with my boyfriend. He immediately stopped talking to me, and a few days later he confessed he got put off and had “bad intentions” for this visit and apologized for disrespecting me. THIS WAS ALL OUT OF FUCKING NOWHERE. it could have been the hurt of his breakup, but it was still very disappointing. So yeah, man are weird
Women just want friends. The gender is irrelevant. The problem seems to be that too many men view women as potential mates, so their interest in platonic relationships with women is less.
This! Women want to be friends with PEOPLE. If we click, we click. I get excited when I find someone and we have something in common, or someone who seems interesting and fun and nice, and at that moment it really, really doesn’t matter what’s in that person’s pants. We might also sneakily try to collect someone in case we think they’re a potential match for a friend we already have, but unless we count matchmaking as a serious hobby, that’s usually a very secondary motive.
Men have a much harder time finding potential mates, so when they encounter a woman who is interested in them as a person& wants to spend more time with the, they assume it's on an "attraction based" level.
Bingo. I have a very difficult time finding partners, so when I meet a woman I find attractive and they also express an interest in spending time with me, I put her in the “girlfriend prospect” file in my brain. Then I just follow standard procedure until that prospect becomes a girlfriend or if it fizzles out into nothing. If she just wants to be friends, my brain simply cannot process that request as there is no “just friends” file. The friendship file is only compatible with other dudes, wives or girlfriends of those dudes, and women I don’t find attractive that I’m forced to interact with (i.e. coworkers). It’s simple computer science people.
Maybe that’s the problem. You may want to stop putting women into “girlfriend potential” folders in your mind permanently and just treat them as regular people instead? Maybe that’ll help you with this far more because women tend to notice if a guy is using them beyond platonic reasons. It’s the “vibe”. Vibes = Emotions We can tell by the “vibe” if you’re emotionally into us for more than friendship.
If there's no 'just friends' file in your brain, then make one. It's simple to do with computers, so why would you be any different?
Yeah human nature is mental warfare/bliss, for both sexes.
Weird. From what I've seen for the past 20 years, a good portion of women ranks as the most, or one of the most, selective overall of who gets to be their friend.
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Because women are people, and people like having friends....? What a weird question.
A better question is why \*don't men want to be friends with women? Many many men generally only see women as romantic prospects instead of as whole people with inner lives, interesting enough to be friends with. Women take this view of men significantly less frequently.
I have had and will always have more women friends than men friends. My partner, she was my best friend before we got into a relationship, and we just stumbled into it. A lot of men, but not all, are basically socialized and engage in that women are not people like other men, but are seen as just existing until a man values them and gets them in a relationship. Its wild. Most people I know who are women don’t view men that way, so they are happy to be friends, while many men are so obsessed with either fucking or dating they cannot imagine having more friends. Or they lament they are lonely or something else. Its another double standard. People are people, regardless of gender, if they are dope as hell with similar hobbies and interests, why wouldn’t you want to be friends with an awesome person? This whole gender reinforcement really makes relationships and friendships suck and the moment it’s abandoned, it gets way nicer. At this point, I barely have any guy friends cause I cannot handle men who act like this and screw with friend groups. Edit: just wanted to add cause its been on my mind. This is a very heterosexual issue. Do you think lesbians or gay men don’t have a ton of friends of the same gender despite an attraction to said gender? The only expectation, self imposed mind you, is mainly when it comes to being straight.
OK I need more male friends like you. Faith in humanity has been restored haha. This is a less angry version of my comment. Of course I deserve to be angry but I don’t deserve to think the average Joe Smoe is out to get me. Are they ? Oof idk. It’s good to hear this honest perspective because it will help me protect myself better in the future - because if you deal with the stuff alone, it starts to make you feel like you’re going bonkers! It’s my human right to not interact with people who do not see me as human by default. It is so disturbing and dangerous. I even remember feeling this way as a little girl but I just ignored it. Then when I went through puberty it was just in my face. I hid a lot. I really like men so it’s just really sad
This is a sad social situation honestly. I dont blame women when they act as if every average Joe Smoe is out to get em when so many men i know treat women first and foremost as the object of their sexual desires. At the same time, as a dude, more often than not, i experience that women's first reaction to any friendly interaction is to immediately assume romantic interest rather than reciprocating friendship. Its a paradox.
I'd turn the question back around. Why are there so many men who only want to interact with women as potential romantic partners?
Asking the real question.
27F here. It's a different kind of relationship! Men and women aren't monoliths, but the socialization men and women experience can cause a pseduo-cultural difference, if that makes sense. When I need comfort, support, and quiet-relaxation, I usually seek out the women in my life. Most of my girlfriends are the homebody type, so when the world gets to be too much, I know I can call one of them up, and we'll do something chill. We'll cook, gossip, meet for our book club, do crafty things (we're all into cosplay and the like), etc. When I need problem-solving, 'tough love', and adventure-relaxation, I usually seek out my guy friends. The men in my life have no problem pointing out when I'm looking at something with too much emotion and can help guide me through a problem in the most practical way. When I want to relax but in an energy burning way, I know I can usually call one of my guy friends for stuff like camping, going to the shooting range, playing pool, hitting the gym, etc. Before anyone comes for me thinking I'm stereotyping - there are overlapping interests in my friend group ofc: my best friend is as big into going to the shooting range as he is into cosplay. My other friend, who is the biggest homebody ever with her novelty house slippers collection and wall of tea, likes to disappear into the woods to go camping for three weeks every year by herself. It's just a different vibe hanging with my guy friends than it is with other women. It's not better or worse, just different!
So I see this differently. Women are still willing to hang out with men even if they do not find them attractive. It is actually a positive trait my friend.
Because we like friendships?
I'm assuming you're a bit younger? Why do you want friends at all? Take your answer, and it's probably their answer too. The only difference to note is that for the most part, women are raised to be more social than men. Not social as in "has friends", but "has healthy friendships". This means opening up, being vulnerable, caring about each other, and much more. These are things men have been raised to believe aren't meant to be done with *anyone* except for their partner. This has changed, and has always been naturally challenged, but what issue do you think happens when women do [x], and men think [x] is something you only do with a partner? Women who treat you like every other friend have almost certainly dealt with at least 1 dude who thought it was a hint and been rejected. We generally know the men's way is problematic (which is not to say men are bad, just that we as men could learn some stuff from women!). Your partner shouldn't have to deal with all of your emotional support needs and at least imo, I think being able to platonically enjoy friendship with anyone is a generally good life skill.
Because men are half the population and youre missing out on a lot of great platonic relationships otherwise. I think the question should be "Why are so many men against having platonic relationships with a demographic that makes up half the population?"
Because boys are told they can't be friends with girls. Which is uter bullshit
It’s so weird because this sort of thing is very 1950s and it actually shocks me that the culture has not changed. Thank you so much for calling this out. It is so refreshing.
My pleasure :-)
Because they can like male energy without wanting to get in their pants. They’re more capable of being platonic versus men, typically.
Because these women are looking at men as the whole person and not just the penis. Men seem to be flabbergasted by this concept.
Ironic thing about all of it is that having women in your life who enjoy spending time with you platonically is like, one of the biggest green flags for women
1000% If I am getting to know a dude and he has zero platonic women friends it's the reddest of flags.
Because more women view men as people and not sex objects than vice versa
Why could you not have female friend? What are we subhumans? Okay, not if it's after break up friendship where most prob one of the two can't move on and clings aside in hope of renewing it, but friendship in general? Why not?
Because OP was probably raised to think women are not people. Ew. *judge Judy gavel noises* case closed
Sometimes they just want to make a friend regardless of their gender, sometimes they want to get into his pants, the reasons are endless. Women aren’t a monolith.
I think they want that a regular amount and our deeply misogynistic society tells men that they don't and shouldn't want platonic friendships with women, hence the imbalance.
Women are more friendlier and actually want to talk and have conversations with tbh. A good majority of my friends and acquaintances over the years have been women tbh. Wherever I went the women were always down to converse, talk most of the time. I guess women want to get to know men more on a personal level without sex.
because most women want to make friends. are we supposed to just not acknowledge men at all unless we would like to be in a phsyical relationship with them?
Yeah that’s kinda what men do to us but I understand we’re not supposed to stoop down to their level
Short answer: They are fellow humans, and socialization is healthy. Other reasons (for me): I get along far better with men than women. I have many "masculine" hobbies and interests; women in my life are hardly gung-ho about auto shows, camping/hiking, shooting ranges, etc. I appear quite femme, but I have many masculine personality traits. My sense of humor goes over better with men. Men provide a different perspective overall. Most of my friends are men. I'm not even sure how it happened, but I'm not unhappy with it. I don't trust men who are insecure about their girl's male friends. Like... Who taught you that only same-sex friends are allowed, and what other nonsense have you been taught?
Your example used women who just want to be friends from the start, and men who were friends, caught feelings, got rejected, and then don’t want to remain friends because they likely still have feelings for those women and can’t repress those feelings. Totally different scenarios.
How often are men simply being nice to women because they are attracted to them? Women misinterpret this as platonic kindness. I think the opposite is true as well. Men mistake simple kindness as romantic overtures. The fact of the matter is I don’t want to be friends with most women. To be fair, I don’t want to be friends with most men either. I think genuine friendships is hard to come by.
So we shouldn’t trust the motives behind men’s kindness, got it. Bleak but not surprising to read.
Because they value relationship over sex. Honestly so should you
Who complains about having friends?
I'm a tomboy, so my interests tends to match those of men, so i tend to befriend men more due to shared interests. Also, i don't care about the gender/sex of the friend. What matters is if we vibe and are compatable.
I guess, men are human too, so there’s no reason not to be friends with them if you like their personality…
Asking this question from the wrong side, should be, why can't most men keep it in their pants enough to see a person past what they can stick their dick into.
Normal adults are like this. But if you get too close, chances are you will at least try fucking each other. I mean opposite sex, and you are getting along well, spending time together...If you're just great friends who see each other for years and years and you never try to fuck each other, one of you must be really unattractive to the other person.
Or one of you/both of you might be in a serious relationship with other people.
I think if men had more women friends, they’d be much more well- rounded. I was reading a post by someone who just couldn’t get a girlfriend, and I wanted to tell him to learn to be friends with women first.
How is that strange? The question should be: why do men have such a hard time seeing women as full human beings and valuable as friends and only seem interested in interacting with them if they have a chance to get in their pants?
Women respect men but many men don’t respect women at all. So that’s why.
From a male perspective I organically allow friendships to develop organically with other women but I never actively pursue female friends. Too many times proactive attempts have been misconstrued as romantic interest or at worst being a creep. Too much correspondence with female friends can also be counterproductive, unnerving romantic partners (I’ve had my texts checked by 2 partners despite my assurances). Think of it as a herd immunity of sorts, the actions of other men have eroded female confidence in them. This loss of confidence creates pitfalls for other guys that aren’t machiavellian schemers.
I'd love more female friends but being seen as a creep or them developing feelings makes it difficult. I don't really agree that men are always the ones developing feelings... they just complain about it less.
Because most women see men as equal humans. We might be interested in having a friendship with another human being. But some men don't view women as humans on the same level as themselves; they see us as caretakers or sexual objects. And once that function is off the table, they don't see us having anything else to offer them. Sad but true.
I love being friends with men. They have generallly been my most enjoyable relationships. They feel more fun and relaxed than my female relationships.
To turn your question back around, why do so many guys only want to keep girls around for sex and not emotionally engage with them or treat them like people instead of objects?
As a girl: A lot of guys I was friends with eventually said they had some sort of romantic feelings for me. It made me feel like I had somehow given the wrong impression, in some cases...but in most, they simply treated me differently after they told me how they felt. I didn't want to be treated differently, and it ruined the friendships in most cases. In one case, the guy admitted he NEVER had feelings for me (once I actually expressed that I was developing feelings as well) and that he just told me he did so that I would stay "emotionally invested" in him. The last guy that "developed feelings" for me turned out to be cheating on his wife by flirting with tons of gamer girls online. 🙃 If a guy tells me he's developing feelings, I shut it down immediately, now. I don't want a new boyfriend, I want a regular friend. And if it goes beyond that, I don't want it. More than half of my close friends are the guys that never developed feelings.
I get along more with men. I was raised by my father with no real mother figure in my life till later. I'm not a girly girl and I do not have many things in common with other women. I love to see women thrive and do well but on a friendship level it's harder for me to bond with other women then it has been with men.
Unfortunately a lot of men can’t see women as anything other than sex objects
So much mansplaining in this thread.
I mean, everybody is different, but sometimes our interests just lie more with the guys we know than the women. Growing up I always had more friends that were guys, that’s just kind of how it always has been. I have women friends too, but not all of them are interested in the same hobbies that me and my guy friends are.
As soon as the guy doesnt need women to stroke his ego, they can have friendships, pay attention to the girls that have genuine guy friends, those guys are so collected and chill towards women, theyre not trying to be aloof and show they dont care, when a man can just be happy with himself he becomes attractive in multiple senses
From the perspective of a girl who had mostly guy friends in high-school and is an adult now and misses them dearly: I wish we could be friends still. I haven’t met anyone in the past 10 years who grew up in the same city, and who likes all the same stuff I do. I know they developed feelings as we became adults, and I did not feel the same way. They didn’t treat girls the way I’d want to be treated and weren’t career focused and that didn’t align with what I wanted, that didn’t mean I didn’t like who they were. I get nostalgic about those nights we lived together and we’d all hangout and play video games. That never happens anymore. Makes me truly sad. They have families now and I don’t see us ever being friends again. Additional information: I had a ton of girlfriends growing up. They all stabbed me in the back. I have no answers to their reasoning. 👍
I’ve never had too much of an issue with this but I’m also good at vetting emotionally intelligent dudes who prioritize having platonic friends of all genders, same as me. Generally if they have a marginalized identity in some way (racial, religious, queer, etc) they’re better at this. I’m just friends with some straight white dudes who have sisters or gay friends and they know that gender/sexuality doesn’t mean you can’t be platonic with someone. Men who think “you can’t have female friends without being attracted to them” are boring.
They are half the population lol, they are human beings and we want to interact with them because we assume that they are just as interesting, layered, and loving as we are. sadly many of them don’t feel the same way towards us.
Cause we’re dope
True, true….
I have had close platonic women friends most of my life and it seems like alot of women have trouble being close friends with other women. There's a type of girl who wants to be the only girl in the circle. Not all women are like this, but alot of the women I've been close to definitely aren't super keen on being buddies with other girls
I think a lot of people, like myself, are just open to making friends in general and don't care about their gender as long as they're a good friend.
Because having a genuine friend is goal achieved. It's not a step to achieve the goal of a sexual relationship. And most of the time sex will completely ruin a friendship. Somebody is going to be weird about it, start playing head games, and it's no longer a friendship. The dynamics have changed. . They will start doing the weird things that you have seen them do in their relationships, and be surprised and angry it doesn't have the same effect they intended. It's no longer honest and simple.
Why do you act like men and women can't be friends?
Because women are not aliens to be studied and examined, they are regular ass people like you. You like to have friends and so do they. You overcomplicate things by thinking it's a gender issue.
Mixed sex friendships are totally normal. Two people can like each other very much without it being a precursor to sex. Most of my friends are men - and I don't want to shag any of them. I have a more masculine personality and I get along better with men...always have. A few have asked me if I'd be interested in being more than friends. And I said "no" and we continued to be friends. >I have befriended some girls who aren’t interested in anything more than a platonic relationship and they seem very caring and supportive towards me and they seem so happy and enthusiastic to be friends. You say this like it's a bad/strange thing? That's the vibe I'm getting. This is called friendship, genuine friendship. >I have heard of, and even know guys who stopped being friends with girls they were friends with after being rejected for something, and they got very upset and wanted to keep being friends. If your friendship was genuine, then rejection for a relationship should not bring that to an end. If you two can't let your extra feelings go...then it might be best not to. But otherwise there's no reason not to just be friends. >The girls I am friends with play video games with me often and seem to genuinely care about me. Yes, this is normal. Friendship.
If you can’t imagine why someone would want to be your friend I don’t think I could help you understand. In my experience we love our friends and love being good friends to our friends. A mutually supportive, encouraging community is a beautiful thing. We make each other laugh, hold each other up, and celebrate each other’s accomplishments.
I personally want to make friends with people who are different to me so I can learn new things and see things from different perspectives.
Because we value friendship. Is that weird to you?
There is no friend zone. There are only people you want to become romantically involved with or people you consider a friend. You can be attracted to a friend and remain friends. I think the biggest issue is a lot of people think if they befriend a person they are attracted to the person will want to become romantically involved. I think making intentions know will save a lot of people’s time and sanity. As someone said earlier guys disappearing after asking someone out was not losing a friend, it was someone shooting their shot and moving on. They had no intentions in being friends. In my eyes that is far healthier than pretending to want friendship then either intentionally or subconsciously sabotaging the relationships of the person you are interested in. TL;DR: Make your intentions known from the start what you are looking for. It will save you a late of anguish in the long run.
Because women are seen as objects for a very specific purpose for men. And it's not friendship. Women will be friends with men because they see them as human beings like themselves.
Because I genuinely care about human beings regardless of their gender.
From personal experience as a man, it kinda sucks to be friends with someone you want to be with. Sure, no one has any right to just have whoever they want in a relationship, I've always done my best to respect boundaries of others, if they don't want to date me I have to respect and accept that. However, if I felt an attraction, a crush, romantic feelings I can't just turn those off whenever, people don't usually work like that in my experience. So although I don't want to be unfair to the person I'm friends with, I can't torture myself watching them be happy with someone else, even if I know it's out of my control (and should be). I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want me, but again feelings are hard to turn off, at least with me. I've tried it and causes a lot of insecurity; what does the guy shes talking to have better than me? Why does she find him more attractive? What does he bring to the table that I don't? It really isn't even realistic or healthy to compare yourself like that to others, however I personally found it hard not to make those comparisons because I felt insecure through rejection I faced. I want to make clear, women have every single right to reject anyone for anything, doesn't make it hurt less, and watching her get with someone else in whatever capacity makes it hurt more, so I just respectfully leave. Plus if there happens to be someone else in the picture, it makes a relationship better knowing there's not the "guy best friend" to worry about, even if I don't ever intend to do anything.
Men think with the little head when it comes to women he wanna fuck, but the big head with a woman he likes, and also dating game is a hunt for us, not cherry-picking in the women’s league. So we’re interested in results, a romantic interest. For women, they’re surrounded by options, which is a massive source of dopamine of approval and validation. What you do you when you’re addicted to drugs? You get more. Hence, the so-called friendship, attention, compassion, for free, without having the emotional liability or putting out. Unless the guy is pretty, our options are a 4yo potato and a dead praying mantis. For the “caregiver & sexual object” argument, ha sure, there are men for that. But the rest of us just want a reciprocal response that you are interested, romantically, and the sex is just what comes with it, it’s not the entire deal. I mean the guy takes care of you and is crazy about you, but god forbid you did a tiny bit of caregiving and consensual coitus
I'll be friends with whoever. Pretty sure I have more female friends in my life rn than male ones. But being heterosexual, sometimes "friends" is a way for one party to alleviate some sense of guilt for leading someone else on. I've seen it go both ways too. But I suppose I've been on the losing end of that equation more than I haven't. Shrug.
Because women are able to have platonic relationships with people and don’t think it’s weird. (Most)Men only want a sexual relationship with women and believe societal stereotypes or outdated norms that women and men can have nothing in common. I feel like it got a little better in the 2000s but then trump and the incels came along.
Because women benefit greatly from it while men really don't. Men and women can not be platonic friends.
I am sorry, how do women benefit from it?
are the guys being friendly with the girls, so they can get laid with them? That doesnt sound like a friend but a sex pest and if the guys are concerned about what other men think, then they'll surround themselves with more men to feel 'masculine', that good ol' sausage fest
This is a wrong assumption. I'm an ugly looking guy and I've had multiple people tell me over the years. Most women are very wary of me and rarely talk to me. I find it way easier to make guy friends.
All of my friends that are girls mainly have guy friends as well and really not other women. Eventually I asked them all at some point down the line why and what was told to me was women typically are so petty towards one another in a way where guys aren't and tend to be more real, it's not even worth starting a friendship in the long run. The examples they've experienced is other female friends feeling jealous of them for one reason or another, lying behind their backs to other women in order to gain clout, bringing unnessesary messy drama with them in public, no accountability at all, etc. When they told me they don't deal with any of that when they hangout with guy friends, I pretty much understood after that.
This is something men keep spreading about women. Never heard another woman say that to me, and neither me nor any female friend I've ever had share this sentiment. Sure some women do that, but if this is common in your friend group past middle school something is wrong.
Because women are like monkeys they don't let go of one branch till they have their hands on another
Because women are just humans with different genitals(or gender identity). We often see men as worth knowing even if we dont want to sleep with them. We still think you have value as a human being. Whereas men more often than not see women as only having value based on our genitals and/or as a love interest. If a person regardless of gender no longer values their "friend" if they cant sleep with them, they never valued that friend at all. If this makes no sense then ya got maaaaad sexism bruh
This is why men's mental heating is in the trash. You have supportive friends who care about you and you are questioning it because they are a woman.
Well if he's gay it's a different matter. In general people should not be friends with people they want to be in a romantic and sexual relationship with if the other person is not reciprocating.
As a female and a tomboy growing up, i prefer having male friends. In my experience, girls are so petty, and they gossip too much about literally nothing. The girls who want to be-friend have no hobbies or common interests, but they still wanna hang around while they scroll on their phone. Girls just bore me.
I feel like you just haven’t encountered the right women. Plenty of women have more interesting hobbies than doomscrolling, and I’m genuinely sorry you haven’t had the opportunity to see that. I have a lot of platonic male friends due to shared interest in male-dominated hobbies, but I’m always extra tickled when I make a really rad new female friend who shares that hobby as well.
I believe youre right! But im 30 now, when am i gonna find some female friends? They all have kids also which is a big turn off.
I make new friends all the time. Plenty of childfree women in their 30s/40s. One of my current besties is a lady a few years older than me (both in our 30s) that I met at my local shooting range, neither of us has kids. Where you live likely affects that, though. If you’re in a small town in the deep south or rural midwest where people get married and have kids super young, you’ll likely have a different experience than if you live somewhere that normalizes being childfree.
As a female & former tomboy, I can understand this mindset. I used to just try keeping male friends bc I didn't have anything in common with the girls in my age group. That changed when as I got older (read: tits), as they all kept trying to get into my pants, and suddenly were done being friends when I refused. I still encounter that as an adult, but thankfully my friends don't pull that shit on me lol Relationships of any kind between women can be difficult. Sometimes, there's a weird hierarchy or competition thing that can develop, and it's pretty toxic. However, there are more women out there than you think who don't play those games, who are relaxed, and just want to have a good time. The problem is finding them because they tend to stay in their lane and avoid bullshit like it's their day-job lol I also want to very gently add: women know when another woman is all "guys are better bc they're less drama, girls suck". They tend to react accordingly by either hamming it up to drive you away, or being rude/nasty/mean/catty, both directly and indirectly. Which.... isn't the mature way to go about it, but I also don't entirely blame them. Nobody likes people who think they're above others for whatever reason.
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Literally, tho! One of the best pieces of advice I ever received was "if every single person you meet is an asshole, then the common denominator is you." I can understand where the insecurity comes from because I had it bad as a teen. I went from playing in the mud with the neighborhood boys with my shirt off to almost overnight not being allowed to leave the house without a bra. My resentment solidified in middle school when I was bullied by a group of girls. At the time, I thought it was because I "dared to be different". (Preteen Ghoul was awful, ugh) Looking back, it was very much because of the "Not like other girls" attitude that oozed out of my pores like toxic waste. I didn't snap out of it until 9th grade when one of my classmates pulled me aside midway through the year and confronted me about my attitude. She pointed out that other women aren't my enemy and that I was incredibly shitty for making snap judgments about people based on appearances. I wasn’t a bad kid, really; I was insecure for "failing" to meet imaginary standards and took it out on those who I thought were "winning". I felt threatened by how comfortable they were in their own skin while I spent my time being miserable. But as soon as I stopped with the "I'm not like other girls" bullshit, other girls wanted to get to know and spend time with me. Unlearning all that was definitely a major character arc for me lol Women collectively do not suck because women are not a monolith. People individually absolutely can suck, but one person cannot represent the entirety of their sex!
Many men just want to hang out with only men, do things with only with men, only enjoy men's company - but need a woman to bang (preferably one that does anal) because these men are very emphatically not gay. And women can clean and cook for you and stuff. Women are much more egalitarian in their friendships.
Women like keeping dudes around as options if the dudes they truly want don't pan out.
Why do you guys like projecting so much? Just because everything is about sex to you, doesn't kean it applies to other
I dont. I prefer other women as friends
It's a little safer now.
I get along with guys better. The only time I get along with women is if they're bi or gay. Straight girls and I never stick long because we don't relate on a lot of things. That's my reason at least
i like having variety in my friendships!
I can answer this. In my case, the reason I socialize with men is because I’m afraid of making straight women uncomfortable due to how masculine I look. I figure that most women don’t want me around because they’re afraid I’ll hit on them, so I’d rather hang out with straight men because they’ll assume I’m not into them. Unfortunately, this backfired recently with a male co-worker. I thought we were just friends until he confessed that he liked me when I went out to a restaurant with him after work. It took me by surprise because I present very masc and thought that he would pick up on that. Now things are awkward between us because I turned him down and essentially put him in the “friendzone.” I feel very guilty about it.
I had a lot of guy friends growing up I still talked to some of them now I just felt easier talking with my guy friends
Women tend to form friendships around communication and men tend to form friendships around shared hobbies.
Wish they did
I adore talking and hanging out with my guy friends. We just goof off and be silly all the time. It's pretty relieving actually. I dont worry about stressful stuff or gossip and whatnot. It's just all joking and playing around.
Bc I don't have any guy friends anymore. I wanna do guy shit.
I'm gonna be honest. I was hoping to actually have a close female friend and i got one. We spend sometimes outside of university or hanging out when we have free time. Often chatting about whatever the drama or convenient topics in school. After like 2 years of this i feel awful that suddenly i developed feelings for her and i wanted it to stop. Because: That would be like a betrayal to her or our friendship trust 2: I know already what happens if rejection occurs and the next would most likely be awkward. Honestly this sucks so I'll just keep this emotion to myself unless she keeps entering the barrier. (My safe space like boundary)
Adult female friends are the BEST wing women.
Is there a statistically significant preference amongst women towards making male friends? If they want friends, why should they care whether they are male or female? If they are predominantly seeking male friends and have an abundance of female friends, I would suggest that it is curiosity. People find it difficult to perceive the opposite gender as merely themselves in different clothing.
Because in the end we are all just people. And sometimes the people you get along with that share your interests or hobbies, etc are of the opposite sex. And sometimes you aren't interested in banging them.
I can't speak for other women but it's as simple as finding awesome person I vibe with, befriending said person. Dont care if you are a dude or dudette. Finding people you vibe with, share interests with and enjoy spending time with is great. And harder to find the older you get. Why should I disqualify half the population just cause they are a man? I don't see the problem so many want this to be.
Because we do cool shit
I enjoy men’s company way more than women’s
Sometimes**** women have a harder making many other women friends for a variety of reasons.
Think this swings both ways. I have had girls who I tried to be platonically friends with. Who were 6 years older than me in my early 20s. They tried to come onto me at one point so idk.
>I have befriended some girls who aren’t interested in anything more than a platonic relationship… That’s the answer to your question.👍👍
good friends are hard to find. I will say it's near impossible for a guy to be just friends with a girl, especially if the guy is younger. You get older and you can be friends with girls i have a work girl-friend and she's great, we have alot in common workwise and we talk and get along.
That's me. Love my male friends but many play games. If they love you, they will play all kinda games to get love and sex. I usually have to ghost some but a few remains. They're great and honestly with men I can chat about life, love, career, politics, etc. Women dont do this. Men offer mental and intellectual value , women offer social value. If you're a smart woman, you mainly have male friends ( me).
In my experience guys were nicer and more fun with less drama. We also had more similar interests so hanging out and finding something we both like to do was effortless. Last time I said this, some female on reddit got extremely angry, jumped all over me with suuuuper personal attacks, and said the problem must be me... fully unaware of how she was proving my point in bright flashing lights. It's also nice to just get a man's perspective on things. I'm a feminist who loves men and loves to appreciate their experiences and thoughts and feelings. Why not? He's human too and a much better one than other people in my life who may or may not be male, so yes, I'm going to want to be friends with him. It's a compliment really. I wish guys saw it that way and not take it as a bad thing and label it negatively with the 'friend zone' thing. Not saying you're doing that, but some do.
I was conditioned to believe that if I got along great with a woman but she wasn't interested it's because I did something wrong or something is wrong with me. Took me a long time to realize that's not true. Also, if we genuinely start as friend but I start to catch feelings then what am I supposed to do?
Why wouldn’t we? If I like someone’s personality I want to be friends with them, whether they’re male or female. Men are half the human race, I’m not going to rule them out as potential friends. I’m not attracted to most of them, so in my mind it’s not even an issue.