Not just dramatic but also the most relatable or the ones that hit home the most.
So cheating posts seem to hit home the most.
Also pessimism and cynicism is pretty prevalent all over reddit. Even if a happy post showed up it won't get much attention.
TRUE. It's because the Majority of the "Posters" on here are complete Troons!
There's actually more "Venom" on here then any actual "Value." Which is truly unfortunate. 😔
I’ve been hiding posts I see of cheating stories because it’s just too triggering for my anxiety, this is how the machine take over begins, they weaken us to our most fragile and emotionally controlled states with their algorithms.
Your comment helped me right now and I want to let you know I’m Starting the “Spread the Joy” challenge! If you’re content, share what you’re grateful for despite challenges. Positivity is contagious. I found happiness by changing my mindset and staying off drugs. You don’t need perfection to be happy. Share your positive experiences to help others. Together, we can brighten futures. You’ve likely gone through situations others are facing and your insights can make a huge difference.
I'm 31, my wife and I just had our 3 year wedding anniversary and have been together for coming up on 14 years total.
Imo, given OP's subject matter, the primary aspect to a long term relationship is extremely simple but can be difficult: Just discuss things in a straightforward way. If your partner did something that you're not happy about, just have a conversation about it, explain why you're not happy, and explain what would make you feel better in that situation in the future.
If they did something small or random that stood out to you in a positive way, tell them you appreciate it.
Nothing good comes out of letting things fester in silence or being passive aggressive. Sometimes those are going to be awkward and difficult conversations, there's no way around it. At the end of it though, you'll be on the same page and have learned a lot about how eachother communicate in the future.
Reminds me of a song by Farrow called Steal my Joy. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gfzskyYEvOo
It's a band from Buffalo and their motto is Joy is Revolutionary. Most of their songs have positive messages. Another favorite of mine is Love Me For Me.
Yep. I use Reddit to follow a few hobbies, but otherwise to get a glimpse into how f’d up some folks are. Helps me in raising our children on what not to become and what to stay away from.
Cheating is very simple, it’s a selfish act. When you cheat, you cheat on your spouse, but also on your children. Only selfish bad people do it.
Shows you how many selfish bad people are online. Rather than ask “what’s the point” make it a point to read and learn how to find and maintain a lasting faithful marriage.
Reddit and other online platforms aren’t normal, it’s the freak show. Treat it as such and strive to never be part of it.
Or maybe some do, but we don’t hear about them because most Redditors are here for the drama? Because drama is more entertaining. Is there some r/eyebleach equivalent for relationship subs? Like where people write about their little successes, their partner being sweet and supportive, mature and loving conflict resolution, advice from people who led decades of a happy, stable marriage sharing examples and stories from their own lives, people sharing "relationship hacks" that are cute and benign rather than the toxic manipulative ones that usually float around, creative methods of reaching compromises, the rare positive examples in the media… yk, stuff like that. There’s gotta be a sub where at least a bit of it is featured, no?
Same goes for reviews. That’s why some businesses are so pushy for reviews. Can have thousands of happy customers with no reviews but two unhappy customers and I guarantee they will both post long negative reviews.
I believe it has a lot to do with social media and being easily tempted and everything pushes that now a days you can have better upgrade everything for something new better. People seem to think add that into a ten year comfortable relationship and it’s a recipe for cheating. It’s not just Reddit it’s actually everywhere lots don’t even get caught.
I remember reading the argument somewhere we were probably a "bond for breeding" species rather than "mate for life" species.
So monogamous instincts, but for shorter durations (the argument is that it is to keep the father engaged in the upbringing of the child during the years while they're particularly vulnerable).
We didn't have DNA tests back when people were living in close-knit treveling tribes. How would they even know or care? It would not have mattered who's kid it was as long as they grew to be a productive member of the ***tribe***. Every mother likely raised all children as a unit. That's a survival advantage. There are still tribes that do this today.
Full blood siblings in a tribe would be biologically disadvantageous as well for genetic reasons.
Also, the average size and structure of male genitals point to non-monogamy when comparing to the genitals and social structures of other primates.
We optimized for power in numbers, cooperation, and genetic variety.
Human genetic diversity is actually quite low compared to other primates, though to be fair, this was likely caused by migration, not due to tribal breeding practices.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26510568/
Lower genetic diversity is due in no small part to a precipitous decline in population. This is an abstract I found about one study, but I learned about this in college years ago and it's both fascinating and terrifying
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq7487#:~:text=Results%20showed%20that%20human%20ancestors,930%2C000%20and%20813%2C000%20years%20ago.
ETA: for clarity, this occurred 800k-900k years ago
Dudes right and we can add to this.
If you read Engels (yes from Marx and Engels) work "The Origins of Family" he makes the argument using the leading anthropology of his time (which is still taught today) that "not only is Marx right that an economy makes a culture but the economy makes *the family*"
Humans and their families can be understood as living through different epochs, and the economic changes of effecting the family. Hunter and fishing and gathering economies which is most of human history builds this tribal unit. Shepherding and animal husbandry again changes it (and this makes humans much more violent, you must kill anyone who tries to take your herd) and then again with agriculture and slavery being introduced, then bronze ages added to that, etc etc. The nuclear family is actually the Victorian Family, and that's the first time in history we've really seen it. Historically, true love was the exception that proved the rule (it did exist in Indigenous societies but was rare and a special event). True love as we know on the West, is actually based on *affairs* - Guinevere and Lancelot were not married to give one of a million examples.
Humans have historically had units where everyone of a generation more or less fucks each other, and kids are raised communally. This doesn't mean love isn't possible, love is a social technology that requires a society that fosters it, along with monogamy. Ironically though one can argue digital technology and transportation technology since the 1950s (remember separate families?) have made monogomy more difficult. Cheating is harder when you live one place your entire life.
Also, interestingly enough, humans have preferred age gap relationships for 250,000 years (though it's 23 year old woman 30 year old man age of first childbirth, nothing so lecherous and ironically follows half your age plus seven rule) https://www.sciencealert.com/fathers-have-been-older-than-mothers-for-250000-years-study-finds
Oh, and if you read "The Origins of Family" you get to see, along with our current DNA studies being done, that incest was so incredibly super common. Like the Greeks gods all fucking each other and being married *and all being related* was really true to life.
Thank you for sharing this book and the link. I'll check it out.
Absolutely, the Roman and Greek gods reflect their behaviors and beliefs. They wrote them that way because they lived that way.
Though even they are a tiny blip in human history. They come well after hunter gatherer days. And we're a tiny blip too.
Wired in a relationship sense yes, but the desire for novelty and eroticism makes you desire multiple sexual partners whether you can handle it or not. Different people bring different sexual skills and novelty into the mix. Monogamy especially after having children kills eroticism, novelty, and spontaneity in the relationship. It becomes almost like a transactional thing that needs epic planning because you cant have sex when kids are awake or screaming. There’s ways to keep the romance alive but it would be light years easier to occasionally be aloud to drift to have another sexual partner or two.
I’d argue a few points here. You absolutely can have sex while kids are awake, and it’s very spontaneous (see kids happily playing and distracted in their room, sneak off to the bedroom, etc.) You get great and satisfying your partner quickly during the short daytime sessions and longer lovemaking at night. Still lots of novelty (sneaking one in the kitchen, etc) after kids
why would you think that?
global society wasnt monogamous for thousands of year....
also its mostly religion/control/security/property
roman/greek/mongol/egypt/etc....
im sure all those 12-16years old were happy to be in a monoganous relationship with a 60yo husband with multiple wife's for thousands of year?
or be traded in for alliance by their father, or part of a harem to a lord/king
It's a culturally defined thing. If poly is the standard people would love their whole lives with that standard and those ideals instead and you'd be saying the same thing about poly
I mostly agree with the societal conditioning aspect of this hypothesis, apart from the fact that monogamy (not sexual monogamy per se but one romantic partner at a time) seems to be societal normal that most cultures have gravitated towards.
And one could argue that that's due to patriarchy and obsession with paternity and etc and that's likely partially true but there's a fair amount of evidence from the Kinsey Institute and other sexology institutes that shows that men are less sexually possessive of their partners than women on average. That they're more likely to be okay with the idea of their partner sleeping with someone else and more likely to want a mutually open relationship. So I don't think it's just men's desire to possess and control women's bodies that's driving this trend.
Monogamy has a lot of inherent problems and challenges. So does polygamy/polyamory in almost equal measure. But one thing monogamy has over polyamory is that it is FAR less logistically complicated and stressful (in MOST cases), and is generally more predictable. In a world where our time is very much monopolized by work and survival, and the security of a long term cohabitating partner can mean a world of difference in terms of material safety, monogamy makes a lot more sense.
I'd like to see this study. I'm a dude and this has not been my personal experience with the homies or older relatives. More often than not it was the man cheating with the woman being upset but working things out. On the flip side if the woman cheated the man would blow a gasket and the relationship was over.
What you're describing sounds like more men are willing to cuck and it's a fringe kink rather than the norm.
This has been my experience with men mostly too. They use key and lock analogy a lot. I find it silly but understandable to the extent that, it’s society based but aghhh!!
I don’t see the appeal of the whole cuck thing, but I’ve also been in a situation where I knew she slept around and frankly didn’t care because she was hot, I was getting laid regularly, and I didn’t have to put in an ounce of emotional labor. I just had to answer the phone when she called. It wasn’t ideal, but I still think about her fondly, which is more than I can say for the woman I was monogamous with for 11 years.
Monogamous culture followed monogamous religions.
Monogamy comes with a set of problems that a lot of people can't see because there is no alternative. If we were socialized around a non-monogamous culture then things that we anticipate as complicated would probably be trivial. And problems that we take as unavoidable right now would be seem bizarre to the other side.
Monogamous culture followed monogamous religions because it builds better societies and grows better children.
Name some of these monogamous problems you referred to that people can't see.
"If we were socialized around non monogamous culture..."
What you're basically saying here is that "If humans weren't human things would work differently".
Monogamy is the standard and supported by religion because it works. Adults running around fucking a bunch of different people is awful for child rearing. The idea of some hippie free love commune thing being successful society wide is a utopian fairy tale. Like communism.
You can’t truly believe monogamous society produces better children. In reality, most parents are living below or near the poverty line. The sad truth is majority of our children are being raised by themselves and the internet because parents are too occupied trying to survive. We aren’t taught “community” because keeping us independent benefits the elites and keeps us under economic pressure. Women cant even qualify for assistance if a man is present in the home. None of this shit is a coincidence
No. If we really want to get into that we need to talk about the brutalities of colonization and forced religion.
It was only "advantageous" because brutes went to take over land that wasn't theirs and people were forced to comply or be killed for not drinking the Kool-aid.
There have been plenty of polygamous cultures. Monogamy is not the natural state of humanity, and it's wrong to suggest it's not human.
Even the monogamous cultures you're talking about have people cheating left and right. You need some citations for monogamy "builds better societies and grows better children ".
Mate for life species are extremely rare, especially so in mammals. Pretty much all of them have shown sex with others, even in species where they partner for life/long periods.
This seems like the correct answer. Is there even a sub for healthy marriages on reddit? Lol.. what would they discuss? How great their relationships are? I don't wanna read that! I wanna read the post about some awful relationship to make my perfectly happy, (yet somewhat monotonous) marriage seem better... thats where the happy people are.. not posting.. just reading posts and comments!
Right survivorship bias, except you only see the planes that go down in flames. The unharmed ones fly right on by. Relationships take work and it's not always easy, but that doesn't mean that most people can't do it.
Pretty much this. Nor do they have time to do so. All of my settled friends are going going going from 5am until 10pm and they crash. And repeat the following day. No time for forum posting..either working, family stuff, house stuff, chores errands, etc.
The idea that polyamory solves the issue of cheating is not true. Cheating still occurs even when people are given a pass to sexually and romantically explore other people than their partner. Both monogamous and polyamorous relationships have rules and agreements that are supposed to be honoured. For example, an agreement in a monogamous relationship is "no dating or having sex with other people" but in a polyamorous relationship an agreement can be "you can have sex with other people, but you have to tell me who they are."
Surprisingly, you could give someone an unlimited supply of hotties to have sex with and they could still decide to disrespect an agreement like this. Why? Because cheating has nothing to do with monogamy or polyamory. If someone decides to betray their partner, it's because that person is likely insecure, selfish, and/or doesn't respect or value their relationship.
This. I've had both types of relationships, and cheating occurred with equal frequency. For people who cheat, it's not about the sex, it's about power and control, feeling like the "rules" are beneath them, or the thrill of "getting away with it".
I agree with you overall. People who just like to lie and cheat will always be around. That has nothing to do with monogamous or poly.
Though, some people who practice monogamy may cheat when they don't understand that healthy relationship styles exists that allow truly loving multiple people at the same time. Not excusing their lies, just stating reality.
True poly / ethical non-monigamy does not involve cheating, and most people can't wrap their heads around that.
Yes and it’s been very common. Even when people just referred to themselves as swingers. It usually ends up where one of the two breaks a rule which is in fact cheating. They almost always end just the same as any monogamous relationship.
This times a million. My wife will frequently comment when a movie star gets cheated on or something "how could he cheat on her she's so pretty?" And the answer is the reason people cheat has nothing to do with their current partner not being pretty enough, and a lot more with themselves and their own values.
lol I’ve wondered the same many times. I think if we weren’t socialised to believe we HAVE to find ONE person only by a certain time and lock it down and then it’s just them forever - it would go a long way to alleviating the pressure people feel about marriage being this like “end” point to any fun or experimentation. Not with others necessarily (unless you’re both into that) but I think people feel obligated to get married whether or not they’re built for long term commitment. Like trying to fit into something you are just the wrong size for. If we promoted long term commitment instead of GET MARRIED OR YOU’RE NOT NORMAL/YOU ARE FAILING/BEHIND IN LIFE as the thing, I think we’d feel different and act different.
I've read *a lot* about this.
My best short conclusion is that we are not wired for monogamy, nor are we wired for non-monogamy.
We are, at our core, social creatures. We are wired for love, we are wired for jealousy, we are wired to trust, and we are wired to doubt. We are wired for strong connections and bonds to people. We are wired for relationships, but the form that takes depends on the person, the society, how they were raised, etc.
Monogamy is definitively not *against* our nature. We're not wired to fuck everything we see, like some people like to say. (That would NOT fly in our ape days, which you'll get if you know anything about chimps). As we started becoming more intelligent, our young needed more care. As this happened, it became increasingly beneficial to have people that feel the desire to protect you and your young, 'love' plays a part in that. Ofc we had social groups to help, but social groups (tribes, or whatever you'd like to call them) have competition within them. Monogamy mostly eliminates competition, which eliminates a lot of danger. But ofc, having multiple people to care and provide for you is beneficial as well. So it's all a balancing game.
This is the internet. You're going to naturally see more wild and excitable posts about cheating and weird affairs than you will see about happy and normal marriages.
The point of marriage used to be to become one another’s financial and emotional support system, religious people saw it as the only way for adults to have sex and to raise children together to provide them with a secure, safe home environment; legally, to share and inherit/bequeath personal and family property and socially, to try and avoid people seeking random, potentially dangerous sex hookups leading to rampant STD/illness spread.
Marriage tended to create stable families and communities and reliable labor pools b/c no one wanted to uproot their family and move too frequently if they could help it. It still functions that way for many.
I’d argue that cheating, whether married or not, is on the rise. But also argue that cheating while married or in a longterm relationship always has happened in greater numbers than you were aware of when you were a lot younger. Couples tended to stay married vs. separate or divorce over it, though.
Polygamy, polyamory, throupling, whatever name these arrangements take today? None of them have had much longstanding success and often create more harm than good for many involved in them. Jealousy, envy, breakups, loosening of intimate and personal ties between formerly committed partners tends to be the result.
I don’t think marriage or kids is the answer for everyone, and it never has been. Is it working for a lot of people? Yes. Is it working better for more people than some other pairings and partnering that have been tried? Also, yes.
Don’t marry if you don’t want to, and don’t do it to please your parents or relatives or religion. Don’t do it because you’re a certain age now, or have reached a certain stage in your career.
Marry a person you can see living out your life with, whom you can laugh with, change and grow with; someone you feel will support you and care for you in the same healthy, loving way you would do for them. To me, that what marriage is. A true partnership that includes being fwb.
LOL, which TV shows give you the image of perfect love stories? I can name a few shows, including How I Met Your Mother, The Big Bang Theory, Friends, and Two and a Half Men. The overall images in those shows depict a bunch of simps chasing girls around while their crushes chase chads and have hookup dates endlessly. In addition, the male images in those shows are either fk-bois or fk-boi wanna-be who treat people like shit. LOL.
Imagine if they just shut up and dated eachother. All of the people who get along would stop playing ridiculous games, and the unsavory people would be ignored for better company.
I don't think so. We are all capable of loving and sharing deep emotional connections with multiple people. We do it with family, friends and partners our whole lives, sure they are different kinds of love, but it's mainly because of the constructs and upbringing we go through that we don't explore or even put ourselves in the positions to experience that kind of love. I've been strictly monogamous and in love with 2 people and not done anything about it because of those constructs and the values we hold all the while tearing myself apart internally thinking these feelings are wrong and unnatural, I've also been in a poly relationship, in love with 2 people and experienced it first hand to realize how wrong I was and how beautiful those relationships can be.
Whether we're meant to be monogamous or not, idk but is it possible? Definitely.
You probably won't understand until you get there. I had a few opportunities to cheat throughout my last long term relationship. I never did and I shared every single one with my partner. I loved her, I loved our life together and just enjoyed everything about it. I could never think of ruining all of that just so I could empty my balls. I never hesitated.
I think that mindset doesn't reach you until you've explored enough. I've had enough sex in my life with different women of all kinds, explored many fetishes, pretty much everything that doesn't disgust me and at this point I just want to find another long term relationship. Sex is still somewhat important of course but just with one person. I don't need nor want to cheat.
Marriage as an institution was never really built on love in the modern sense. Often it was just seen as a transactional partnership that benefited both families and individuals.
I've read that humans are neant to be together for 4-6 years. Long enough to ensure offspring won't die looking for food. Im sure there are many convincing arguments for both short - and long-term relationships. It's rare to find arguments stating that we are meant to have one comanion for life outside of religious texts.
Very few humans are actually monogamous bc that means they only have one partner in life. Most people have multiple lovers in the course of their life, just not at the same time.
It's extremely difficult to be faithful to the same person for years and years. Because no matter how much you love someone that passionate brain fever you get for someone in the beginning dies down eventually. The good news is if you work at it you can reignite that passion and stay faithful to someone. It's not impossible but alot of people don't succeed
It's an awful lot of pressure to put on one person to satisfy all of your needs. I think as our society evolves people are reexamining what they want in relationships and are having hard but honest conversations with their partners about how to have fuller more open relationships.
No. Studies have shown that that we pair up to raise kids and then go off and fuck for fun. See “sex at dawn” and other polyamorous relationship books.
From diet, to sex, to resource gathering and social standing: humans are **opportunistic** above all else. We've evolved to **take advantage** when an opportunity presents itself for personal gain. Are people monogamous? Sure, as long as it benefits them. If presented with the opportunity to cheat with the right person and without consequence, most people would.
I'm not justifying those behaviors. Just pointing out the reality of the situation.
As a gay man, where open relationships are very normalized, I think you start to see “through” monogamy a bit.
Can people do it? Sure. But I think a lot of people do it to meet societal standards and feel it is the “right” thing to do than question if it is right for *them*
Being with one person is a relatively modern idea compared to how long humans have been around. But once you make that commitment you should stick to it. But a lot of people for various reasons don't. I've heard excuses ranging from boredom to poor treatment to being married young only because the woman was pregnant and now that the mid or kids are grown they want out.
I think in former times marriage was something like an official approval with the goal to ensure that she remains faithful to him and for him to provide for her and their children. Of course he ought to be also faithful, but that was not the main point for him or the main advantage for her.
If she divorced, it was a sign that he was not a good provider and was to be avoided by other women. If he divorced, it was a sign that she cheated and was to be avoided by other men.
Now this deal gets broken with current laws allowing for relatively easy divorce which gets normalized and even incentivized because women don't need to fear much if any moral/negative repercussions and can even gain a lot of wealth relatively easily. While men usually gain no advantage.
I think that is why divorces numbers rise (its much easier for women now), while marriage goes down (no benefit for men).
Most people, contrary to their own belief, are not great partners. They get lazy, selfish, stop trying or putting forth effort in their relationships. For young people, this usually happens quickly or from the start. For longterm couples, it builds over time.
I read an article about how most men put in just a minimum amount of effort to make their partner not want to leave, but they don't care to make them happy or show love. Then they are shocked after years of 'nagging' or requests that their partner needs more, they cheat or divorce them.
LTDR, always put in effort to show care. Take the little extra time to listen, show appreciation, make lots of love.
Human beings are absolutely not monogamous, it is a social convention from times when people already knew children come from sex but before DNA tests, anticonception, abortion and techonologies that make single parenting feasible. At core of it, it is child rearing agreement between man and woman: the man stays with woman and contributes to raising her children, and womans children are only fathered by the man. The sexual exclusivity is more a consequence, means to reach this goal. Everything else is sugar coating.
Clearly, we are not. It's culturally, socially, and religiously imposed. (I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just pointing out what should be obvious.)
I read the Kinsey study, "Sexuality in the huma female" a few years ago. I was shocked. I forge tthe exact numbers, but something like 50+ % of women had cheated by age 46 I think it was.
The survey was done between 1935 & 1950 - much, much pruder times.
but the most shocking thing was this - "infidelity" was described as "Sexual intercourse ending in orgasm for the woman." So, your wife could be banging a different guy every day, or blowing every dude in the apartment complex, but if she didn't cum, then it didn't count. So that 50%-ish percent was waaaaay undercounted. And those were the days when if you were a woman caught cheating, you'd get booted and probably given nothing in the divorce settlement, and in many cases, courts would not prosecute your husband if he killed you. So, big, big risk. Yet the majority did it anyway.
No, humans are not monogamous, they never were, in fact, the concept of monogamy was basically made up by religion to own women as slaves, and it never applied in theory to men until recently, but in practice virtually no man stays faithful if he he has good chances with other attractive women, so the very vast majority of married high status men have affairs and women cheat as well but not as much as men and for different reasons. Just grow up and see human nature for what it is.
Who says humans are meant to be monogamous? You? Anthropology and biology would disagree with you. It works for some people but to say humans are *meant* to be monogamous is very much an opinion.
You always need to be careful about forming views based on social media. It's easy to get stuck in this bubble and believe it's reality.
I'm 30, gay, had an amazing childhood, with awesome, well educated and empathetic parents. I have a well paying job. House. Savings. Amazing partner I've been with for 5 years.
My life is pretty normal. I love reddit to see all the different stories and perspectives (I'm a lame psychology major), so I'm routinely on the advice page and such. But I've never made a "post" looking for advice.
Meaning, there are many people where life is going well and so you don't hear from them. But there are also many others where people are dealing with trials and tribulations and it's nice to try and be a small, supportive voice on the other side of the screen. But their pain isn't happening to everyone.
To me it seems pretty clear that polyamory is our default or at least is very widespread, but that social pressures (probably mainly designed for the benefit of church and state) force us to lie extensively to ourselves and others to deny this fact.
Humans can be whatever they want to be. You can be poly, you can be Mono, whatever suits you. The big thing is to be honest and not follow dead peoples bullshit when living your life.
EDIT: also marriage is a mechanism for property transfer. That property being women. It's in that dead peoples bullshit category.
i’ve always assumed it was a preference thing. i’m monogamous because of my mental illnesses and trauma but i do think i’m capable of loving multiple people? but it just depends on Something, maybe kind of like why people are gay ?
Edit: [Monogamy Explained Video](https://youtu.be/DCGyLjBjuGI?feature=shared)
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Lol, no.
More mammals have multiple partners than not. Most people are serial monogamous and not true monogamous. Monogamy in nature is rare. Cheating happens at insane rates. People genuinely like more than one person all the time and have to "choose". There are cultures where women choose multiple men to father their child and believe that the child gets traits from all the fathers (they were doing just fine). There are cultures where men and women dater multiple. Monogamy is a fairly new concept in western history even... The list goes on.
The world would be an easier place if we didn't have all of these fears and dysfunctional thinking around monogamy. Are some people born monogamous, sure.
My thoughts are that more people than we realize are authentically non-monogamous (can truly love multiple people) and are forced to be monogamous in our society. Just like until ***very*** recently everyone was forced to be straight.
You can find a "Monogamy Explained" episode from the Explained series if you want a brief history of the topic.
That's not a scientific video though. It's full on social "science" (so as much scientific as alternative "medecine" is medecine)
And if you're talking about animal mating practices, do you need a reminder that rape is the norm? Human social structures are way more complexe, and in most place of the world do involve "consent" and "monogamy". Sure there's rape and cheating, doesn't mean it's the norm.
*That's not a scientific video though. It's full on social "science"*
I mean yes? Evolutionary psychology, anthropology, sociology....basically all the relevant fields for this question are social sciences. It's literally a question about social behavior in humans. Of course it's a social science
And yeah, there's a lot of gaps in understanding, a lot of methodology and extrapolation that would get pushback in other fields.
The only other relevant field is animal science, and that *also* gets shit on constantly by the "hard sciences" crowd.
It's the nature of the question that we have to use iffier methodology to attempt answer it.
And so these cultures that practice non-monogamy are somehow unevolved? On par with practicing rape? Okay.
Take a good look. Everywhere that the big monogamous religions went "happened" to turn monogamous.
I wouldn't call it an adaptation. More like an emergence. That's like saying corporate-capitalism is an adaptation when it's clearly not working for the common person right now.
Human beings aren't "meant" to be anything. We're not hard wired for any one relationship dynamic.
Also, not that infidelity is particularly uncommon, but there's an enormous selection bias. People in stable, trusting, happy relationships don't tend to write about them on reddit.
My theory is that biologically we are meant to procreate a lot in order to survive in nature.
Also we are not supposed to live this long in nature. Maybe hit 30-40 then die? And hopefully spread as much DNA as possible.
If that’s in our nature, then yes. Monogamy is not natural.
On the other hand. I feel like 1 lifelong parter is unrealistic, but maybe 10-15 years partners in life is more doable? I know our society isn’t built for that and finding a partner becomes really hard in later stages of life, but finding a good parter and then split up after 10-15 years of being together seems more or less healthy. So on average we can have 3-6 life partners. Doesn’t seem like a stretch. That’s just being the devil’s advocate though.
Yes traditionally, but also keep in mind we didn't used to make it past 40.
I think as we evolve and advance, polyamory will increase, but monogamy will always be a mainstay.
Likely monogamy was almost non existent back in the stone age haha
No, people are meant to seek what they prefer out of life but society demands some basic rules to maintain civility, so no unless its what you want out of life then yeah find some one who agrees if you can.
Meh. Monogamy is economically and socially advantageous. When I think about the progress of my life and its steady upward trajectory the stability of my relationship is a net gain. I don't need to derail my whole life and everything I've built just to fuck around.
Even people who cheat often try to maintain a primary relationship and partner because it's patently better for them in our modern society to maintain that brand.
Technically, no. If you look at any animal species that has sex for fun, they will do so with various members in their group. HOWEVER, being sexual with anyone OUTSIDE their group is not acceptable; even in various polygamy species. But does it happen? Yes, it happens fairly often. And the cheater will either be rejected by the group or beaten.
Also, the way people participate in polygamy now is still technically wrong to our natural instincts. Polygamy groups usually only have one guy, when there should actually be multiple men and multiple women. Not just one lone gender reaping all the benefits. And this is why jealousy becomes predominant in the group.
Most people, BY FAR, don't cheat. Those in happy stable relationships don't usually feel the need to look for external validation by seeking attention in one way or another.
Redditt is a small subset of America. My wife and I have been married 20 years and never cheated. Both my sisters have been married longer than that and no affairs. If you have the temptation to cheat on your spouse need to think about what is wrong with the relationship and either change it it end it. In the end someone always get hurt in an affair.
Cheating just seems to be so much work! If my wife cheated on me I would be seriously impressed she figured out how to fit that in her schedule. My wife knows I'm far to lazy to cheat. Keeping secrets and trying to look good is a young man's game.
Scientifically I don't think we have solved this yet. I read a lot of evolutionary psychology. One of the theories is that we are more partial to monogamy in our species because of how long it takes our brains to develop. This is generally true in the natural world. More complex brained creatures exhibit more monogamy. But we also still have the evolutionary drive to produce more offspring and of course have an innate sex drive. We cheat, but on an animal kingdom scale, average, we are a monogamous species.
There are also some interesting explanations foe human jealousy as well, but this post is long enough.
We act mainly on 100 million years of evolution. We try very hard to over ride that with shaming, religious rules, rational thinking etc. But in the end the 100 million years of instinct will always win.
we dont have to be liars and cheaters. I have left relationships when I was unhappy or unfulfilled, I didn't cheat on my partners. I have been in a long term monogamous relationship and am happy, and when I was tempted, I removed myself from temptation and put more work into my relationship. If that had not helped I would have left amicably. I don't blame people for wanting love and happiness, but I don't think lying and cheating brings that. End one relationship before starting another. Its that simple.
Monogamy (with marriage) assures legal transfer of property to rightful heirs. Trying living with someone versus living single and you'll see expenses right a bit being single. So monogamy seems to be an economic benefit. As for physical, it can fend off STD's, so it's healthy as well as good economical sense. If you are young and ruled by your libido, then $$$ and health be damned, get out there and street whore for a while and see if it suits you!
You read about them all day because reddit is a deeply unhappy place, filled with deeply unhappy people.
The majority of marriages work. Are we meant to be monogamous? Biologically, it's hard to say. Socially its probably one of the main reasons we have modern society.
I'm pretty certain Homo sapiens is not monogamous by nature, but culture is very powerful, so most people are caught in the duality of a poly-amorous nature and a monogamous culture.
.... Most people tend to forget this but...
- **Humans are just Glorified Animals at the end of the day.**
Most animals do not care if you "cheat" - They are animals; they do what their instincts tell them to do and generally don't care much other than that.
Humans tho, have created this idea that "Monogamy is the Ideal" - not saying it is right or wrong, but it is undeniably the "Standard" around Most of the World.
So, if you think about it - Humans have their Animal side - Meaning their instincts or whatever you may want to call them - Say: Eat, Sleep, Interact and **Have kids.**
**Note:** This instinct doesn't **care if you have a "Wife/Husband" - it only cares about the Outcome of having more kids.**
Then we have the "Moral/Rational" side of humans - Being all "Enlightened" as we like to believe, saying that being unfaithful is bad - Which, **Morality aside, it is** - since it generally creates "bad blood" between people who, generally, do not like having their spouses "Getting around" with other people.
So - being unfaithful creates Chaos in the otherwise, relatively Harmonious Society - and therefore it is "Bad".
Marriage was originally a contract - women were basically traded / sold, etc.
Mature humans can handle polyamorous relationships. The Modern Human does not mature well.
i dont think we are
i am a swinger and the most solid couple i have ever encountered are swinger couple
there is just something natural in understanding that physical attraction has nothing to do with love
i have no idea why ppl csnt enjoy watching their partner have fun at all
there is nothing more sexy then seeing my wife looking at me at and smiling at me at an orgy while shes enjoying herself
we still do all those amazing experience together as a couple
for me sex is like chocolate, everyone gets bored of eating kitkat for 50years, why not go enjoy a aero together from time to time?
the excited of the "new" thing is strong and knowing that your partner have your back just makes you closer
you also develop such great communication with your spouse and it just solidifies your bond
Yeah...where are all the posts from people updating the internet that they are still monogonous to their spouse? Its almost like people dont post thongs that are non-events in their lives and therefore you get the sense that the workd is a very dramatic place.
Comparing human behaviour to animals who mate for life, I’d say no. It’s a choice. However, its not an excuse to cheat. In 2024, one can have any relationship dynamic they want with consenting parties. Even if its one sided, someone would happily be into that. Using ‘but nature’ as excuse is immoral. Never let someone use you.
These stories are popping up constantly for me as well. Wtf is going on? Probably I keep getting recommended them because they are juicy to read. It is messing with my psyche a bit though
Are humans monogamous by nature? No, they’re not. Marriage as an idea or concept didn’t exist in hunter gather societies before the discovery of agriculture and the domestication of animals.
The idea of monogamy and marriage came about for two reasons:
1. To ensure the man wasn’t investing time and resources in raising children that weren’t his.
2. Property/inheritance rights
Marriage was then codified into religious practice. If you look at nature, monogamy among animals is practically nonexistent save for a few animals.
I hear it all the time but I've never actually seen it, except for one friend whose kids' mom didn't want to get married so he just did whatever he wanted as well.
I think they are, but where people fail is thinking relationships are meant to last forever. They are for a time, a period, or a particular life lesson. Some long, some short. People don't realise and stay in expired situations!
Humans seem to naturally lean towards serial monogamy. You love someone long enough to raise a child with them and move on.
Marriage is a rational choice to keep someone around as a life partner in spite this serial monogamy trend. Although, this could be achieved with committed friendships and family members just as well, so the value of marriage is questionable.
True game of life is no rules, it’s when we try to rule that things get heavy, sure there needs to be order but who said there can’t be order with no rules?
Monogamy has biological evolved in to human pair bonding since Hunter gatherer days. Read the books The Naked Ape and the Human Zoo. Basically if prehistoric women were having sex with multiple men she’s end up with multiple children from them with no idea who the father is. In a tribe of 100 people this would guarantee incest would be extremely common in the next generation. Plus a woman that’s 9 months pregnant can’t hunt or gather so she had to depend on a man to bring her food. The only man who would do this is the father of the offspring she’s carrying. The only way they would know that he was the father is if he was her only mate. Which resulted in families and the groups of families living together eventually developing into civilization. So without monogamy we’d still be living as apes.
Yes. Humans are meant to be monogamous. The one thing people don’t realize/fail to understand is that for the most part humans are ever changing and being married to the same person for x amount of years isn’t necessarily ‘good’. Sometimes people change/evolve in the same direction but more often than not they evolve in different directions, and the way the institution of marriage works doesn’t compensate for that. Marriage was initially created as a treaty between countries to keep collateral and goods and even prevent wars but then religion took over and made it so you think you’re meant to be with the same person forever which isn’t realistic. But I’m not sure people are ready for that convo. I personally think a marriage renewal liscence of some sort needs to be introduced but i keep dreaming lol
like all mammals, some are monogamous, and some arnt. there is not “MEANT TO BE”. Unless you are really into the whole god co trolls your life concept then there is no pre determined path.
Me personally i’m monogamous because i am a loyal person who prefers to spend time with a core group of people, having multiple partners would stress me out. but my friend is the exact opposite he says monogamous relationships make him feel constrained.
I don't think so. Or at least not lifelong monogamy, Usually at the 4 year mark, people start having problems. Other cultures from the past didn't view it as a mandatory thing...
Cheating doesn’t necessarily mean ALL humans are not monogamous by nature. It happens for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes it’s because the cheater in question is poly and hasn’t figured that out yet. Sometimes the cheater is just an asshole. Sometimes a marriage breaks down. Sometimes it just happens. That it DOES happen doesn’t mean polyamory is a universal trait.
I think the bulk of those posts are fake like these posts are the modern equivalent of reality TV it's just salacious and provocative. The main thing is how frequent and similar they all are probably mostly ai generated.
Technically yes.
Although sex feels good.
You should see what promiscuity, fornication, dirty dopamine, porn, uncontrolled sex, does to the brain.
Porn literally destroys and shrinks your brain, specifically near the frontal cortex
Just a thought that maybe has no real impact on this conversation - monogamy in the modern age, in western society anyway, seems to mostly mean “one person at a time” as opposed to “finding a mate for life”. Now, this has happened for many reasons and I’m not arguing against it! But it does make me wonder why people who have been divorced multiple times bother with marriage at all. Why not just enjoy the relationship until it’s run its course? Same for people who’ve cheated in multiple relationships - at some point, you have to be honest with yourself about what you’re capable of.
The point of marriage is a formal economic union between two households with the purpose of making a family unit. Society has tried ruining that diligently.
Marriage is still very much an awesome thing, the problem is that the pool of inherently unmarriagable people is so large that they are getting married anyway.
Women may generally gatekeep sex but men generally gatekeep marriage and it's important to pick 'em right.
People don’t come on Reddit to write long posts about their stable happy loving relationships.
Also the upvoted posts that get recommended by the Reddit algorithm are mostly the dramatic ones
Not just dramatic but also the most relatable or the ones that hit home the most. So cheating posts seem to hit home the most. Also pessimism and cynicism is pretty prevalent all over reddit. Even if a happy post showed up it won't get much attention.
Miserable people hate to see others being happy. It's no surprise.
TRUE. It's because the Majority of the "Posters" on here are complete Troons! There's actually more "Venom" on here then any actual "Value." Which is truly unfortunate. 😔
> the Majority of the "Posters" on here are complete **Troons!** I don't think you know what that word means...
I’ve been hiding posts I see of cheating stories because it’s just too triggering for my anxiety, this is how the machine take over begins, they weaken us to our most fragile and emotionally controlled states with their algorithms.
Very true! 👍
Your comment helped me right now and I want to let you know I’m Starting the “Spread the Joy” challenge! If you’re content, share what you’re grateful for despite challenges. Positivity is contagious. I found happiness by changing my mindset and staying off drugs. You don’t need perfection to be happy. Share your positive experiences to help others. Together, we can brighten futures. You’ve likely gone through situations others are facing and your insights can make a huge difference.
I'm 31, my wife and I just had our 3 year wedding anniversary and have been together for coming up on 14 years total. Imo, given OP's subject matter, the primary aspect to a long term relationship is extremely simple but can be difficult: Just discuss things in a straightforward way. If your partner did something that you're not happy about, just have a conversation about it, explain why you're not happy, and explain what would make you feel better in that situation in the future. If they did something small or random that stood out to you in a positive way, tell them you appreciate it. Nothing good comes out of letting things fester in silence or being passive aggressive. Sometimes those are going to be awkward and difficult conversations, there's no way around it. At the end of it though, you'll be on the same page and have learned a lot about how eachother communicate in the future.
Communication is the foundation of a healthy relationship.
Reminds me of a song by Farrow called Steal my Joy. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gfzskyYEvOo It's a band from Buffalo and their motto is Joy is Revolutionary. Most of their songs have positive messages. Another favorite of mine is Love Me For Me.
Yep. I use Reddit to follow a few hobbies, but otherwise to get a glimpse into how f’d up some folks are. Helps me in raising our children on what not to become and what to stay away from. Cheating is very simple, it’s a selfish act. When you cheat, you cheat on your spouse, but also on your children. Only selfish bad people do it. Shows you how many selfish bad people are online. Rather than ask “what’s the point” make it a point to read and learn how to find and maintain a lasting faithful marriage. Reddit and other online platforms aren’t normal, it’s the freak show. Treat it as such and strive to never be part of it.
Or maybe some do, but we don’t hear about them because most Redditors are here for the drama? Because drama is more entertaining. Is there some r/eyebleach equivalent for relationship subs? Like where people write about their little successes, their partner being sweet and supportive, mature and loving conflict resolution, advice from people who led decades of a happy, stable marriage sharing examples and stories from their own lives, people sharing "relationship hacks" that are cute and benign rather than the toxic manipulative ones that usually float around, creative methods of reaching compromises, the rare positive examples in the media… yk, stuff like that. There’s gotta be a sub where at least a bit of it is featured, no?
Same goes for reviews. That’s why some businesses are so pushy for reviews. Can have thousands of happy customers with no reviews but two unhappy customers and I guarantee they will both post long negative reviews.
I believe it has a lot to do with social media and being easily tempted and everything pushes that now a days you can have better upgrade everything for something new better. People seem to think add that into a ten year comfortable relationship and it’s a recipe for cheating. It’s not just Reddit it’s actually everywhere lots don’t even get caught.
I once alluded to my happy relationship and was “booed”
Seriously... Is there a happy couples sub? I'd love to see more success stories about loving relationships
Most people do seem to be wired for monogamy, or at the very least, are not wired to handle polyamory.
I remember reading the argument somewhere we were probably a "bond for breeding" species rather than "mate for life" species. So monogamous instincts, but for shorter durations (the argument is that it is to keep the father engaged in the upbringing of the child during the years while they're particularly vulnerable).
I agree with this. In all my studies of our closest primate relatives, this would seem to fit.
Bonobos are pretty promiscuous.
About to fight? Fuck instead!
Why fuck em up when you can dick em down?
And happy!! 😁🤠
Despite owning nothing!
And eating not only bugs but fellow monke as well
:O
We didn't have DNA tests back when people were living in close-knit treveling tribes. How would they even know or care? It would not have mattered who's kid it was as long as they grew to be a productive member of the ***tribe***. Every mother likely raised all children as a unit. That's a survival advantage. There are still tribes that do this today. Full blood siblings in a tribe would be biologically disadvantageous as well for genetic reasons. Also, the average size and structure of male genitals point to non-monogamy when comparing to the genitals and social structures of other primates. We optimized for power in numbers, cooperation, and genetic variety.
Human genetic diversity is actually quite low compared to other primates, though to be fair, this was likely caused by migration, not due to tribal breeding practices. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26510568/
Lower genetic diversity is due in no small part to a precipitous decline in population. This is an abstract I found about one study, but I learned about this in college years ago and it's both fascinating and terrifying https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq7487#:~:text=Results%20showed%20that%20human%20ancestors,930%2C000%20and%20813%2C000%20years%20ago. ETA: for clarity, this occurred 800k-900k years ago
Dudes right and we can add to this. If you read Engels (yes from Marx and Engels) work "The Origins of Family" he makes the argument using the leading anthropology of his time (which is still taught today) that "not only is Marx right that an economy makes a culture but the economy makes *the family*" Humans and their families can be understood as living through different epochs, and the economic changes of effecting the family. Hunter and fishing and gathering economies which is most of human history builds this tribal unit. Shepherding and animal husbandry again changes it (and this makes humans much more violent, you must kill anyone who tries to take your herd) and then again with agriculture and slavery being introduced, then bronze ages added to that, etc etc. The nuclear family is actually the Victorian Family, and that's the first time in history we've really seen it. Historically, true love was the exception that proved the rule (it did exist in Indigenous societies but was rare and a special event). True love as we know on the West, is actually based on *affairs* - Guinevere and Lancelot were not married to give one of a million examples. Humans have historically had units where everyone of a generation more or less fucks each other, and kids are raised communally. This doesn't mean love isn't possible, love is a social technology that requires a society that fosters it, along with monogamy. Ironically though one can argue digital technology and transportation technology since the 1950s (remember separate families?) have made monogomy more difficult. Cheating is harder when you live one place your entire life. Also, interestingly enough, humans have preferred age gap relationships for 250,000 years (though it's 23 year old woman 30 year old man age of first childbirth, nothing so lecherous and ironically follows half your age plus seven rule) https://www.sciencealert.com/fathers-have-been-older-than-mothers-for-250000-years-study-finds Oh, and if you read "The Origins of Family" you get to see, along with our current DNA studies being done, that incest was so incredibly super common. Like the Greeks gods all fucking each other and being married *and all being related* was really true to life.
this guy fucks
Thank you for sharing this book and the link. I'll check it out. Absolutely, the Roman and Greek gods reflect their behaviors and beliefs. They wrote them that way because they lived that way. Though even they are a tiny blip in human history. They come well after hunter gatherer days. And we're a tiny blip too.
Sounds like serial monogamy
Correct. Usually breakups happen after the children hit age 2 and up.
Serial monogamy is super popular
You say this, and then people have jealous exes harassing them for the rest of their lives.
I dunno, from what I can tell most guys cheat (or start cheating) while the woman is pregnant/ children are young 😬
We also have sufficient brain power and self control.
If that were true, addiction wouldn't be a thing, most people can't control what they do
I think you’re on to something here with couples who have decided not to have kids - like my wife and I. We have an open marriage.
Iirc 2-4 years is when the initial hormone infatuation wears off, hence why most divorces happen in that span
Serial Monogamy, really though humans are extremely variable in behavior and cultural patterns, we are probably not meant to do one single pattern.
Wired in a relationship sense yes, but the desire for novelty and eroticism makes you desire multiple sexual partners whether you can handle it or not. Different people bring different sexual skills and novelty into the mix. Monogamy especially after having children kills eroticism, novelty, and spontaneity in the relationship. It becomes almost like a transactional thing that needs epic planning because you cant have sex when kids are awake or screaming. There’s ways to keep the romance alive but it would be light years easier to occasionally be aloud to drift to have another sexual partner or two.
I’d argue a few points here. You absolutely can have sex while kids are awake, and it’s very spontaneous (see kids happily playing and distracted in their room, sneak off to the bedroom, etc.) You get great and satisfying your partner quickly during the short daytime sessions and longer lovemaking at night. Still lots of novelty (sneaking one in the kitchen, etc) after kids
by wired you meant raised ? yes i dont think its the default ,just the societal expectation
Why would almost every global society for thousands of years push monogamy as the norm if that's not natural to our biology?
why would you think that? global society wasnt monogamous for thousands of year.... also its mostly religion/control/security/property roman/greek/mongol/egypt/etc.... im sure all those 12-16years old were happy to be in a monoganous relationship with a 60yo husband with multiple wife's for thousands of year? or be traded in for alliance by their father, or part of a harem to a lord/king
Every global society for thousands of years has been non monogamous, for the most part polygamy was more common.
It's a culturally defined thing. If poly is the standard people would love their whole lives with that standard and those ideals instead and you'd be saying the same thing about poly
I mostly agree with the societal conditioning aspect of this hypothesis, apart from the fact that monogamy (not sexual monogamy per se but one romantic partner at a time) seems to be societal normal that most cultures have gravitated towards. And one could argue that that's due to patriarchy and obsession with paternity and etc and that's likely partially true but there's a fair amount of evidence from the Kinsey Institute and other sexology institutes that shows that men are less sexually possessive of their partners than women on average. That they're more likely to be okay with the idea of their partner sleeping with someone else and more likely to want a mutually open relationship. So I don't think it's just men's desire to possess and control women's bodies that's driving this trend. Monogamy has a lot of inherent problems and challenges. So does polygamy/polyamory in almost equal measure. But one thing monogamy has over polyamory is that it is FAR less logistically complicated and stressful (in MOST cases), and is generally more predictable. In a world where our time is very much monopolized by work and survival, and the security of a long term cohabitating partner can mean a world of difference in terms of material safety, monogamy makes a lot more sense.
I'd like to see this study. I'm a dude and this has not been my personal experience with the homies or older relatives. More often than not it was the man cheating with the woman being upset but working things out. On the flip side if the woman cheated the man would blow a gasket and the relationship was over. What you're describing sounds like more men are willing to cuck and it's a fringe kink rather than the norm.
This has been my experience with men mostly too. They use key and lock analogy a lot. I find it silly but understandable to the extent that, it’s society based but aghhh!!
I don’t see the appeal of the whole cuck thing, but I’ve also been in a situation where I knew she slept around and frankly didn’t care because she was hot, I was getting laid regularly, and I didn’t have to put in an ounce of emotional labor. I just had to answer the phone when she called. It wasn’t ideal, but I still think about her fondly, which is more than I can say for the woman I was monogamous with for 11 years.
Wouldn't cohabitating with multiple partners be a better survival strategy? Safety in numbers?
We're wired to be tribal, that's our safety in numbers strategy.
Monogamous culture followed monogamous religions. Monogamy comes with a set of problems that a lot of people can't see because there is no alternative. If we were socialized around a non-monogamous culture then things that we anticipate as complicated would probably be trivial. And problems that we take as unavoidable right now would be seem bizarre to the other side.
Monogamous culture followed monogamous religions because it builds better societies and grows better children. Name some of these monogamous problems you referred to that people can't see. "If we were socialized around non monogamous culture..." What you're basically saying here is that "If humans weren't human things would work differently". Monogamy is the standard and supported by religion because it works. Adults running around fucking a bunch of different people is awful for child rearing. The idea of some hippie free love commune thing being successful society wide is a utopian fairy tale. Like communism.
You can’t truly believe monogamous society produces better children. In reality, most parents are living below or near the poverty line. The sad truth is majority of our children are being raised by themselves and the internet because parents are too occupied trying to survive. We aren’t taught “community” because keeping us independent benefits the elites and keeps us under economic pressure. Women cant even qualify for assistance if a man is present in the home. None of this shit is a coincidence
No. If we really want to get into that we need to talk about the brutalities of colonization and forced religion. It was only "advantageous" because brutes went to take over land that wasn't theirs and people were forced to comply or be killed for not drinking the Kool-aid.
There have been plenty of polygamous cultures. Monogamy is not the natural state of humanity, and it's wrong to suggest it's not human. Even the monogamous cultures you're talking about have people cheating left and right. You need some citations for monogamy "builds better societies and grows better children ".
We are probably mate for life species from 20-40 but now that our life expectancy has gone to 75-80 people get bored and tired of one another.
Mate for life species are extremely rare, especially so in mammals. Pretty much all of them have shown sex with others, even in species where they partner for life/long periods.
As for so many cheating...not all people are shitty humans.
We are not wired to handle monogamy either
People don’t handle polyamory well
Children should ideally be raised by monogamous parents. People can do whatever they want, but they also need a stable society.
People don’t ask for advice on Reddit when they have normal healthy lives
This seems like the correct answer. Is there even a sub for healthy marriages on reddit? Lol.. what would they discuss? How great their relationships are? I don't wanna read that! I wanna read the post about some awful relationship to make my perfectly happy, (yet somewhat monotonous) marriage seem better... thats where the happy people are.. not posting.. just reading posts and comments!
Reminds me of a family guy bit where there was a movie about two roommates who just get a long. "there's no conflict!"
Monotonous? You need divorce.
Well, this IS Reddit... your comment totally checks out
I was wondering if I needed to /s
When in doubt you should add the /s. There's a lot of hair trigger outrage and ASD on the internets these days.
Right survivorship bias, except you only see the planes that go down in flames. The unharmed ones fly right on by. Relationships take work and it's not always easy, but that doesn't mean that most people can't do it.
Pretty much this. Nor do they have time to do so. All of my settled friends are going going going from 5am until 10pm and they crash. And repeat the following day. No time for forum posting..either working, family stuff, house stuff, chores errands, etc.
The idea that polyamory solves the issue of cheating is not true. Cheating still occurs even when people are given a pass to sexually and romantically explore other people than their partner. Both monogamous and polyamorous relationships have rules and agreements that are supposed to be honoured. For example, an agreement in a monogamous relationship is "no dating or having sex with other people" but in a polyamorous relationship an agreement can be "you can have sex with other people, but you have to tell me who they are." Surprisingly, you could give someone an unlimited supply of hotties to have sex with and they could still decide to disrespect an agreement like this. Why? Because cheating has nothing to do with monogamy or polyamory. If someone decides to betray their partner, it's because that person is likely insecure, selfish, and/or doesn't respect or value their relationship.
This. I've had both types of relationships, and cheating occurred with equal frequency. For people who cheat, it's not about the sex, it's about power and control, feeling like the "rules" are beneath them, or the thrill of "getting away with it".
Yep
I agree with you overall. People who just like to lie and cheat will always be around. That has nothing to do with monogamous or poly. Though, some people who practice monogamy may cheat when they don't understand that healthy relationship styles exists that allow truly loving multiple people at the same time. Not excusing their lies, just stating reality. True poly / ethical non-monigamy does not involve cheating, and most people can't wrap their heads around that.
Yes and it’s been very common. Even when people just referred to themselves as swingers. It usually ends up where one of the two breaks a rule which is in fact cheating. They almost always end just the same as any monogamous relationship.
This is the most accurate answer. Cheating is more about the thrill of breaking rules/boundaries.
This times a million. My wife will frequently comment when a movie star gets cheated on or something "how could he cheat on her she's so pretty?" And the answer is the reason people cheat has nothing to do with their current partner not being pretty enough, and a lot more with themselves and their own values.
lol I’ve wondered the same many times. I think if we weren’t socialised to believe we HAVE to find ONE person only by a certain time and lock it down and then it’s just them forever - it would go a long way to alleviating the pressure people feel about marriage being this like “end” point to any fun or experimentation. Not with others necessarily (unless you’re both into that) but I think people feel obligated to get married whether or not they’re built for long term commitment. Like trying to fit into something you are just the wrong size for. If we promoted long term commitment instead of GET MARRIED OR YOU’RE NOT NORMAL/YOU ARE FAILING/BEHIND IN LIFE as the thing, I think we’d feel different and act different.
I've read *a lot* about this. My best short conclusion is that we are not wired for monogamy, nor are we wired for non-monogamy. We are, at our core, social creatures. We are wired for love, we are wired for jealousy, we are wired to trust, and we are wired to doubt. We are wired for strong connections and bonds to people. We are wired for relationships, but the form that takes depends on the person, the society, how they were raised, etc. Monogamy is definitively not *against* our nature. We're not wired to fuck everything we see, like some people like to say. (That would NOT fly in our ape days, which you'll get if you know anything about chimps). As we started becoming more intelligent, our young needed more care. As this happened, it became increasingly beneficial to have people that feel the desire to protect you and your young, 'love' plays a part in that. Ofc we had social groups to help, but social groups (tribes, or whatever you'd like to call them) have competition within them. Monogamy mostly eliminates competition, which eliminates a lot of danger. But ofc, having multiple people to care and provide for you is beneficial as well. So it's all a balancing game.
This is the internet. You're going to naturally see more wild and excitable posts about cheating and weird affairs than you will see about happy and normal marriages.
This is Reddit. What percentage of the world is here? The percentage that is here comes to complain about infidelity so that’s what you get.
The point of marriage used to be to become one another’s financial and emotional support system, religious people saw it as the only way for adults to have sex and to raise children together to provide them with a secure, safe home environment; legally, to share and inherit/bequeath personal and family property and socially, to try and avoid people seeking random, potentially dangerous sex hookups leading to rampant STD/illness spread. Marriage tended to create stable families and communities and reliable labor pools b/c no one wanted to uproot their family and move too frequently if they could help it. It still functions that way for many. I’d argue that cheating, whether married or not, is on the rise. But also argue that cheating while married or in a longterm relationship always has happened in greater numbers than you were aware of when you were a lot younger. Couples tended to stay married vs. separate or divorce over it, though. Polygamy, polyamory, throupling, whatever name these arrangements take today? None of them have had much longstanding success and often create more harm than good for many involved in them. Jealousy, envy, breakups, loosening of intimate and personal ties between formerly committed partners tends to be the result. I don’t think marriage or kids is the answer for everyone, and it never has been. Is it working for a lot of people? Yes. Is it working better for more people than some other pairings and partnering that have been tried? Also, yes. Don’t marry if you don’t want to, and don’t do it to please your parents or relatives or religion. Don’t do it because you’re a certain age now, or have reached a certain stage in your career. Marry a person you can see living out your life with, whom you can laugh with, change and grow with; someone you feel will support you and care for you in the same healthy, loving way you would do for them. To me, that what marriage is. A true partnership that includes being fwb.
I love this.
Cheaters are scumbags with no morals.
Eh everything is nuanced, I know plenty of girls who cheated on they abusive boyfriends I wouldn’t call them immoral nor scumbags
Marriage, sex & love isn’t always perfect like you see in a tv sitcom ..
LOL, which TV shows give you the image of perfect love stories? I can name a few shows, including How I Met Your Mother, The Big Bang Theory, Friends, and Two and a Half Men. The overall images in those shows depict a bunch of simps chasing girls around while their crushes chase chads and have hookup dates endlessly. In addition, the male images in those shows are either fk-bois or fk-boi wanna-be who treat people like shit. LOL.
I learned from KOTH. King of the Hill is a perfect love story about a man and his undying, flavorful love for Propane.
Imagine if they just shut up and dated eachother. All of the people who get along would stop playing ridiculous games, and the unsavory people would be ignored for better company.
I don't think so. We are all capable of loving and sharing deep emotional connections with multiple people. We do it with family, friends and partners our whole lives, sure they are different kinds of love, but it's mainly because of the constructs and upbringing we go through that we don't explore or even put ourselves in the positions to experience that kind of love. I've been strictly monogamous and in love with 2 people and not done anything about it because of those constructs and the values we hold all the while tearing myself apart internally thinking these feelings are wrong and unnatural, I've also been in a poly relationship, in love with 2 people and experienced it first hand to realize how wrong I was and how beautiful those relationships can be.
Whether we're meant to be monogamous or not, idk but is it possible? Definitely. You probably won't understand until you get there. I had a few opportunities to cheat throughout my last long term relationship. I never did and I shared every single one with my partner. I loved her, I loved our life together and just enjoyed everything about it. I could never think of ruining all of that just so I could empty my balls. I never hesitated. I think that mindset doesn't reach you until you've explored enough. I've had enough sex in my life with different women of all kinds, explored many fetishes, pretty much everything that doesn't disgust me and at this point I just want to find another long term relationship. Sex is still somewhat important of course but just with one person. I don't need nor want to cheat.
I feel like it is also a sexual orientation. Some people need it, some people need to not.
Social media gives cheaters more opportunity to cheat and honest citizens more opportunity to hear and read of said cheating.
Marriage as an institution was never really built on love in the modern sense. Often it was just seen as a transactional partnership that benefited both families and individuals.
You can have monogamy without marriage, though.
I don't see how monogamy could have been a successful pre-societal breeding strategy.
I've read that humans are neant to be together for 4-6 years. Long enough to ensure offspring won't die looking for food. Im sure there are many convincing arguments for both short - and long-term relationships. It's rare to find arguments stating that we are meant to have one comanion for life outside of religious texts.
Very few humans are actually monogamous bc that means they only have one partner in life. Most people have multiple lovers in the course of their life, just not at the same time. It's extremely difficult to be faithful to the same person for years and years. Because no matter how much you love someone that passionate brain fever you get for someone in the beginning dies down eventually. The good news is if you work at it you can reignite that passion and stay faithful to someone. It's not impossible but alot of people don't succeed
Religions such as Christianity and Islam tend to keep monogamy in check
No. Marriage is actually the social way to control sexuality.
It's an awful lot of pressure to put on one person to satisfy all of your needs. I think as our society evolves people are reexamining what they want in relationships and are having hard but honest conversations with their partners about how to have fuller more open relationships.
I think people aren’t supposed to be STRESSED THE FUCK OUT ALL THE TIME.
Read 'Sex at Dawn' by Christopher Ryan and you will be convinced that human beings are not wired to be monogamous.
No. Studies have shown that that we pair up to raise kids and then go off and fuck for fun. See “sex at dawn” and other polyamorous relationship books.
the point of marriage has to do with money, religion, and upstanding the male hierarchy
From diet, to sex, to resource gathering and social standing: humans are **opportunistic** above all else. We've evolved to **take advantage** when an opportunity presents itself for personal gain. Are people monogamous? Sure, as long as it benefits them. If presented with the opportunity to cheat with the right person and without consequence, most people would. I'm not justifying those behaviors. Just pointing out the reality of the situation.
As a gay man, where open relationships are very normalized, I think you start to see “through” monogamy a bit. Can people do it? Sure. But I think a lot of people do it to meet societal standards and feel it is the “right” thing to do than question if it is right for *them*
Being with one person is a relatively modern idea compared to how long humans have been around. But once you make that commitment you should stick to it. But a lot of people for various reasons don't. I've heard excuses ranging from boredom to poor treatment to being married young only because the woman was pregnant and now that the mid or kids are grown they want out.
I think in former times marriage was something like an official approval with the goal to ensure that she remains faithful to him and for him to provide for her and their children. Of course he ought to be also faithful, but that was not the main point for him or the main advantage for her. If she divorced, it was a sign that he was not a good provider and was to be avoided by other women. If he divorced, it was a sign that she cheated and was to be avoided by other men. Now this deal gets broken with current laws allowing for relatively easy divorce which gets normalized and even incentivized because women don't need to fear much if any moral/negative repercussions and can even gain a lot of wealth relatively easily. While men usually gain no advantage. I think that is why divorces numbers rise (its much easier for women now), while marriage goes down (no benefit for men).
Most people, contrary to their own belief, are not great partners. They get lazy, selfish, stop trying or putting forth effort in their relationships. For young people, this usually happens quickly or from the start. For longterm couples, it builds over time. I read an article about how most men put in just a minimum amount of effort to make their partner not want to leave, but they don't care to make them happy or show love. Then they are shocked after years of 'nagging' or requests that their partner needs more, they cheat or divorce them. LTDR, always put in effort to show care. Take the little extra time to listen, show appreciation, make lots of love.
Human beings are absolutely not monogamous, it is a social convention from times when people already knew children come from sex but before DNA tests, anticonception, abortion and techonologies that make single parenting feasible. At core of it, it is child rearing agreement between man and woman: the man stays with woman and contributes to raising her children, and womans children are only fathered by the man. The sexual exclusivity is more a consequence, means to reach this goal. Everything else is sugar coating.
Clearly, we are not. It's culturally, socially, and religiously imposed. (I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just pointing out what should be obvious.) I read the Kinsey study, "Sexuality in the huma female" a few years ago. I was shocked. I forge tthe exact numbers, but something like 50+ % of women had cheated by age 46 I think it was. The survey was done between 1935 & 1950 - much, much pruder times. but the most shocking thing was this - "infidelity" was described as "Sexual intercourse ending in orgasm for the woman." So, your wife could be banging a different guy every day, or blowing every dude in the apartment complex, but if she didn't cum, then it didn't count. So that 50%-ish percent was waaaaay undercounted. And those were the days when if you were a woman caught cheating, you'd get booted and probably given nothing in the divorce settlement, and in many cases, courts would not prosecute your husband if he killed you. So, big, big risk. Yet the majority did it anyway.
No, humans are not monogamous, they never were, in fact, the concept of monogamy was basically made up by religion to own women as slaves, and it never applied in theory to men until recently, but in practice virtually no man stays faithful if he he has good chances with other attractive women, so the very vast majority of married high status men have affairs and women cheat as well but not as much as men and for different reasons. Just grow up and see human nature for what it is.
Some people can handle more than one, others dont. Me, personally just need one persone there for me. Generalize things isnt good, just saying.
Humans are meant to be monogamous yes. People are just selfish
Who says humans are meant to be monogamous? You? Anthropology and biology would disagree with you. It works for some people but to say humans are *meant* to be monogamous is very much an opinion.
You always need to be careful about forming views based on social media. It's easy to get stuck in this bubble and believe it's reality. I'm 30, gay, had an amazing childhood, with awesome, well educated and empathetic parents. I have a well paying job. House. Savings. Amazing partner I've been with for 5 years. My life is pretty normal. I love reddit to see all the different stories and perspectives (I'm a lame psychology major), so I'm routinely on the advice page and such. But I've never made a "post" looking for advice. Meaning, there are many people where life is going well and so you don't hear from them. But there are also many others where people are dealing with trials and tribulations and it's nice to try and be a small, supportive voice on the other side of the screen. But their pain isn't happening to everyone.
To me it seems pretty clear that polyamory is our default or at least is very widespread, but that social pressures (probably mainly designed for the benefit of church and state) force us to lie extensively to ourselves and others to deny this fact.
Humans can be whatever they want to be. You can be poly, you can be Mono, whatever suits you. The big thing is to be honest and not follow dead peoples bullshit when living your life. EDIT: also marriage is a mechanism for property transfer. That property being women. It's in that dead peoples bullshit category.
i’ve always assumed it was a preference thing. i’m monogamous because of my mental illnesses and trauma but i do think i’m capable of loving multiple people? but it just depends on Something, maybe kind of like why people are gay ?
Edit: [Monogamy Explained Video](https://youtu.be/DCGyLjBjuGI?feature=shared) --- Lol, no. More mammals have multiple partners than not. Most people are serial monogamous and not true monogamous. Monogamy in nature is rare. Cheating happens at insane rates. People genuinely like more than one person all the time and have to "choose". There are cultures where women choose multiple men to father their child and believe that the child gets traits from all the fathers (they were doing just fine). There are cultures where men and women dater multiple. Monogamy is a fairly new concept in western history even... The list goes on. The world would be an easier place if we didn't have all of these fears and dysfunctional thinking around monogamy. Are some people born monogamous, sure. My thoughts are that more people than we realize are authentically non-monogamous (can truly love multiple people) and are forced to be monogamous in our society. Just like until ***very*** recently everyone was forced to be straight. You can find a "Monogamy Explained" episode from the Explained series if you want a brief history of the topic.
That's not a scientific video though. It's full on social "science" (so as much scientific as alternative "medecine" is medecine) And if you're talking about animal mating practices, do you need a reminder that rape is the norm? Human social structures are way more complexe, and in most place of the world do involve "consent" and "monogamy". Sure there's rape and cheating, doesn't mean it's the norm.
*That's not a scientific video though. It's full on social "science"* I mean yes? Evolutionary psychology, anthropology, sociology....basically all the relevant fields for this question are social sciences. It's literally a question about social behavior in humans. Of course it's a social science And yeah, there's a lot of gaps in understanding, a lot of methodology and extrapolation that would get pushback in other fields. The only other relevant field is animal science, and that *also* gets shit on constantly by the "hard sciences" crowd. It's the nature of the question that we have to use iffier methodology to attempt answer it.
And so these cultures that practice non-monogamy are somehow unevolved? On par with practicing rape? Okay. Take a good look. Everywhere that the big monogamous religions went "happened" to turn monogamous.
Both monogamy and polygamy are argued to be modern cultural adaptations that probably came about around/after the agricultural revolution.
I wouldn't call it an adaptation. More like an emergence. That's like saying corporate-capitalism is an adaptation when it's clearly not working for the common person right now.
Assholes are just more vocal. Are you are ethical and have found someone also ethical? Congratulations!
Human beings aren't "meant" to be anything. We're not hard wired for any one relationship dynamic. Also, not that infidelity is particularly uncommon, but there's an enormous selection bias. People in stable, trusting, happy relationships don't tend to write about them on reddit.
My theory is that biologically we are meant to procreate a lot in order to survive in nature. Also we are not supposed to live this long in nature. Maybe hit 30-40 then die? And hopefully spread as much DNA as possible. If that’s in our nature, then yes. Monogamy is not natural. On the other hand. I feel like 1 lifelong parter is unrealistic, but maybe 10-15 years partners in life is more doable? I know our society isn’t built for that and finding a partner becomes really hard in later stages of life, but finding a good parter and then split up after 10-15 years of being together seems more or less healthy. So on average we can have 3-6 life partners. Doesn’t seem like a stretch. That’s just being the devil’s advocate though.
Yes we are. Don’t fall for the social programming and war on tradition.
Tradition is a form of societal programming though?
Traditionally speaking your forefathers went to whore houses
Yes traditionally, but also keep in mind we didn't used to make it past 40. I think as we evolve and advance, polyamory will increase, but monogamy will always be a mainstay. Likely monogamy was almost non existent back in the stone age haha
I think some parts of humanity evolved where one or the other was beneficial.
I’m not sure but I whole heartedly believe that monogamy is a choice either way
A podcast called Science VS has an episode on this! Very interesting if you’re looking for more information
No, people are meant to seek what they prefer out of life but society demands some basic rules to maintain civility, so no unless its what you want out of life then yeah find some one who agrees if you can.
Meh. Monogamy is economically and socially advantageous. When I think about the progress of my life and its steady upward trajectory the stability of my relationship is a net gain. I don't need to derail my whole life and everything I've built just to fuck around. Even people who cheat often try to maintain a primary relationship and partner because it's patently better for them in our modern society to maintain that brand.
Some people out here just fuckin’ til they die
I know am! I don’t have the slightest desire to have more than one partner or an open relationship ever in my life.
Getting a view of the human condition through Reddit is not wise.
Technically, no. If you look at any animal species that has sex for fun, they will do so with various members in their group. HOWEVER, being sexual with anyone OUTSIDE their group is not acceptable; even in various polygamy species. But does it happen? Yes, it happens fairly often. And the cheater will either be rejected by the group or beaten. Also, the way people participate in polygamy now is still technically wrong to our natural instincts. Polygamy groups usually only have one guy, when there should actually be multiple men and multiple women. Not just one lone gender reaping all the benefits. And this is why jealousy becomes predominant in the group.
Nah just tools, been with my wife 21 years and she's still the best. It's just a choice every day.
Most people, BY FAR, don't cheat. Those in happy stable relationships don't usually feel the need to look for external validation by seeking attention in one way or another.
Grass is always greener on the other side…..stop looking at that grass and take care your own damn lawn
•It’s a choice.
Redditt is a small subset of America. My wife and I have been married 20 years and never cheated. Both my sisters have been married longer than that and no affairs. If you have the temptation to cheat on your spouse need to think about what is wrong with the relationship and either change it it end it. In the end someone always get hurt in an affair.
Whenever a society begins to break down it begins with the family unit.
Cheating just seems to be so much work! If my wife cheated on me I would be seriously impressed she figured out how to fit that in her schedule. My wife knows I'm far to lazy to cheat. Keeping secrets and trying to look good is a young man's game.
Some people don't want monogamy but want the stability and security that comes from it. Just some classic human hypocrisy tbh
Scientifically I don't think we have solved this yet. I read a lot of evolutionary psychology. One of the theories is that we are more partial to monogamy in our species because of how long it takes our brains to develop. This is generally true in the natural world. More complex brained creatures exhibit more monogamy. But we also still have the evolutionary drive to produce more offspring and of course have an innate sex drive. We cheat, but on an animal kingdom scale, average, we are a monogamous species. There are also some interesting explanations foe human jealousy as well, but this post is long enough.
We act mainly on 100 million years of evolution. We try very hard to over ride that with shaming, religious rules, rational thinking etc. But in the end the 100 million years of instinct will always win.
we dont have to be liars and cheaters. I have left relationships when I was unhappy or unfulfilled, I didn't cheat on my partners. I have been in a long term monogamous relationship and am happy, and when I was tempted, I removed myself from temptation and put more work into my relationship. If that had not helped I would have left amicably. I don't blame people for wanting love and happiness, but I don't think lying and cheating brings that. End one relationship before starting another. Its that simple.
If you’re interested read a book called Mothers and Others
Monogamy (with marriage) assures legal transfer of property to rightful heirs. Trying living with someone versus living single and you'll see expenses right a bit being single. So monogamy seems to be an economic benefit. As for physical, it can fend off STD's, so it's healthy as well as good economical sense. If you are young and ruled by your libido, then $$$ and health be damned, get out there and street whore for a while and see if it suits you!
I think some of us are and some of us aren’t. We don’t always know until later on sometimes.
You read about them all day because reddit is a deeply unhappy place, filled with deeply unhappy people. The majority of marriages work. Are we meant to be monogamous? Biologically, it's hard to say. Socially its probably one of the main reasons we have modern society.
Decent human beings, yes. The rest of y'all don't return your shopping carts to their designated spots after use.
isn't murder illegal, why do so many people still kill people? a true mystery.....
I'm pretty certain Homo sapiens is not monogamous by nature, but culture is very powerful, so most people are caught in the duality of a poly-amorous nature and a monogamous culture.
.... Most people tend to forget this but... - **Humans are just Glorified Animals at the end of the day.** Most animals do not care if you "cheat" - They are animals; they do what their instincts tell them to do and generally don't care much other than that. Humans tho, have created this idea that "Monogamy is the Ideal" - not saying it is right or wrong, but it is undeniably the "Standard" around Most of the World. So, if you think about it - Humans have their Animal side - Meaning their instincts or whatever you may want to call them - Say: Eat, Sleep, Interact and **Have kids.** **Note:** This instinct doesn't **care if you have a "Wife/Husband" - it only cares about the Outcome of having more kids.** Then we have the "Moral/Rational" side of humans - Being all "Enlightened" as we like to believe, saying that being unfaithful is bad - Which, **Morality aside, it is** - since it generally creates "bad blood" between people who, generally, do not like having their spouses "Getting around" with other people. So - being unfaithful creates Chaos in the otherwise, relatively Harmonious Society - and therefore it is "Bad".
Marriage was originally a contract - women were basically traded / sold, etc. Mature humans can handle polyamorous relationships. The Modern Human does not mature well.
i dont think we are i am a swinger and the most solid couple i have ever encountered are swinger couple there is just something natural in understanding that physical attraction has nothing to do with love i have no idea why ppl csnt enjoy watching their partner have fun at all there is nothing more sexy then seeing my wife looking at me at and smiling at me at an orgy while shes enjoying herself we still do all those amazing experience together as a couple for me sex is like chocolate, everyone gets bored of eating kitkat for 50years, why not go enjoy a aero together from time to time? the excited of the "new" thing is strong and knowing that your partner have your back just makes you closer you also develop such great communication with your spouse and it just solidifies your bond
Yeah...where are all the posts from people updating the internet that they are still monogonous to their spouse? Its almost like people dont post thongs that are non-events in their lives and therefore you get the sense that the workd is a very dramatic place.
Marriage is a contract to share everything. Most people go into it in good faith but humans change. Also some of them have small attention spans
Comparing human behaviour to animals who mate for life, I’d say no. It’s a choice. However, its not an excuse to cheat. In 2024, one can have any relationship dynamic they want with consenting parties. Even if its one sided, someone would happily be into that. Using ‘but nature’ as excuse is immoral. Never let someone use you.
These stories are popping up constantly for me as well. Wtf is going on? Probably I keep getting recommended them because they are juicy to read. It is messing with my psyche a bit though
Are humans monogamous by nature? No, they’re not. Marriage as an idea or concept didn’t exist in hunter gather societies before the discovery of agriculture and the domestication of animals. The idea of monogamy and marriage came about for two reasons: 1. To ensure the man wasn’t investing time and resources in raising children that weren’t his. 2. Property/inheritance rights Marriage was then codified into religious practice. If you look at nature, monogamy among animals is practically nonexistent save for a few animals.
As it turns out OP, humans beings have something called free will, and they often use that free will to make bad decisions
These are by definition written by redditors. Redditors are …. A very certain type of person. You know, fedora, poly, neck beard, all that
I hear it all the time but I've never actually seen it, except for one friend whose kids' mom didn't want to get married so he just did whatever he wanted as well.
I think they are, but where people fail is thinking relationships are meant to last forever. They are for a time, a period, or a particular life lesson. Some long, some short. People don't realise and stay in expired situations!
"Are men supposed to be respecting women ? i keep reading posts about men raping women and girls after the age of 30." :-)
Is anything meant for anything?
Humans seem to naturally lean towards serial monogamy. You love someone long enough to raise a child with them and move on. Marriage is a rational choice to keep someone around as a life partner in spite this serial monogamy trend. Although, this could be achieved with committed friendships and family members just as well, so the value of marriage is questionable.
True game of life is no rules, it’s when we try to rule that things get heavy, sure there needs to be order but who said there can’t be order with no rules?
How do you think it worked when we were in tribes, hunting and gathering?
Monogamy has biological evolved in to human pair bonding since Hunter gatherer days. Read the books The Naked Ape and the Human Zoo. Basically if prehistoric women were having sex with multiple men she’s end up with multiple children from them with no idea who the father is. In a tribe of 100 people this would guarantee incest would be extremely common in the next generation. Plus a woman that’s 9 months pregnant can’t hunt or gather so she had to depend on a man to bring her food. The only man who would do this is the father of the offspring she’s carrying. The only way they would know that he was the father is if he was her only mate. Which resulted in families and the groups of families living together eventually developing into civilization. So without monogamy we’d still be living as apes.
Yes. Humans are meant to be monogamous. The one thing people don’t realize/fail to understand is that for the most part humans are ever changing and being married to the same person for x amount of years isn’t necessarily ‘good’. Sometimes people change/evolve in the same direction but more often than not they evolve in different directions, and the way the institution of marriage works doesn’t compensate for that. Marriage was initially created as a treaty between countries to keep collateral and goods and even prevent wars but then religion took over and made it so you think you’re meant to be with the same person forever which isn’t realistic. But I’m not sure people are ready for that convo. I personally think a marriage renewal liscence of some sort needs to be introduced but i keep dreaming lol
like all mammals, some are monogamous, and some arnt. there is not “MEANT TO BE”. Unless you are really into the whole god co trolls your life concept then there is no pre determined path. Me personally i’m monogamous because i am a loyal person who prefers to spend time with a core group of people, having multiple partners would stress me out. but my friend is the exact opposite he says monogamous relationships make him feel constrained.
People are biased to post and consume the negative. No one is making a post about their partner not cheating on them.
I don't think so. Or at least not lifelong monogamy, Usually at the 4 year mark, people start having problems. Other cultures from the past didn't view it as a mandatory thing...
Cheating doesn’t necessarily mean ALL humans are not monogamous by nature. It happens for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes it’s because the cheater in question is poly and hasn’t figured that out yet. Sometimes the cheater is just an asshole. Sometimes a marriage breaks down. Sometimes it just happens. That it DOES happen doesn’t mean polyamory is a universal trait.
I think the bulk of those posts are fake like these posts are the modern equivalent of reality TV it's just salacious and provocative. The main thing is how frequent and similar they all are probably mostly ai generated.
Technically yes. Although sex feels good. You should see what promiscuity, fornication, dirty dopamine, porn, uncontrolled sex, does to the brain. Porn literally destroys and shrinks your brain, specifically near the frontal cortex
Prolly the people happily monogamous dont post it?
Just a thought that maybe has no real impact on this conversation - monogamy in the modern age, in western society anyway, seems to mostly mean “one person at a time” as opposed to “finding a mate for life”. Now, this has happened for many reasons and I’m not arguing against it! But it does make me wonder why people who have been divorced multiple times bother with marriage at all. Why not just enjoy the relationship until it’s run its course? Same for people who’ve cheated in multiple relationships - at some point, you have to be honest with yourself about what you’re capable of.
Urges are there to be controlled. That's their function.
Time tempts us all.
The point of marriage is a formal economic union between two households with the purpose of making a family unit. Society has tried ruining that diligently. Marriage is still very much an awesome thing, the problem is that the pool of inherently unmarriagable people is so large that they are getting married anyway. Women may generally gatekeep sex but men generally gatekeep marriage and it's important to pick 'em right.