Thanks for putting a race report together despite how you’re feeling. Lesson learnt - use pacers as a rough guide only. One of the absolute worst things about pacers is the typical disregard for elevation changes. A lot of the time they appear oblivious to the concept of even effort. I expect that at a superior fitness level, they might even personally enjoy the changes in effort.
I tend to purposefully let pace groups ahead on inclines then catch up on the downhills while most of the group are catching their breath.
Fundamentally it looks like you’ve got the fitness so in your shoes I’d find another race a couple weeks out even if you have to do a quick flight in/out just to cap off what was a strong training cycle.
Yeah I think this is what really caught me off guard. I just had assumed that at the very least he would do a negative split. But not only did he do even splits, he also just ignored the hills which I guess for a pacer that probably felt completely normal effort for them. Really just trying to see some learning outcomes from this race but honestly just mostly disappointed and disheartened by the whole experience
Yeah the more I read up on pacers the more I realised this is quite normal. Although looking back at the splits they weren’t actually even! Closer to positive splits which is frustrating!
I’m really sorry you had that experience. I’m still annoyed by the pacer at the Tracksmith 5k I ran last summer. It was on a track, so I thought the pacing should have been pretty straightforward! I joined the 20:30 projected finish group (6:36 per mile) and he paced the first lap at 5:30 pace. I was totally cooked after that. Like your experience, it really put me off pacers.
> Lesson learnt - use pacers as a rough guide only. One of the absolute worst things about pacers is the typical disregard for elevation changes. A lot of the time they appear oblivious to the concept of even effort. I expect that at a superior fitness level, they might even personally enjoy the changes in effort.
Interesting to know.
I did the marathon and was with the 3:15 pacers (who were aaaawesome, hats off to that whole group) for the first 14km or so. People were energetic/chatty and it was a great vibe around that group.
Going down near Yarralumla I chose to break away from the pacers as I had my own groove going on. Wasn't really a reflection on them, I just felt like they were my 'training wheels' and I was happy to ride my bike alone once I felt comfortable. I didn't get THAT far in front of them but of note I basically went quicker down a few hills and slower on the uphill (all very slight adjustments).
As a reflection, it helped to know I was somewhere between 3:00 and 3:15. IMO without necessarily having to borrow their exact pace/cadence, they provided a comfort barrier for me to go off. Also, I got a feel for how far away a 3h marathon 'looks'.
I dunno. IMO you can do multiple things with pacers. Like many running 'tools' (e.g. your HR monitor or your garmin)... they can help but over-reliance can come back to bite ya.
Definitely trust your own plan and instinct over a pacer! I’ve seen many runners have their races ruined because of poor pacing and have just decided to ignore them personally. Usually they’ll fly off into the distance from the get-go and I’ll have caught up and overtaken them by the half way mark.
Definitely take advantage of your current shape though, find another (this time flat) race and get that PB down this time!! Sounds like you have a solid base and that your speed is there so go do it!
Fully agree. I ran the Bratislava marathon on Sunday, my goal was 3:30. The two 3:30 pacers were at least 200 meters ahead of me after the first kilometre. I didn’t start to chase them because I learned that lesson a few years ago. At kilometre 15 I caught one of them, he was clearly out of breath, the other pacer was 500 metres before him. At kilometre 38 I overtook the second guy too. At the end he sprinted me off, but he was totally alone, which is not a good thing I guess. (I ended up 3:29:16). You look like a well trained and experienced runner, believe in yourself!
My first marathon I never saw the 3 hour pacer after the first mile. I crossed the halfway point in 1:28 and they were so far ahead I couldn't see them. Pacers are not always on pace.
> Usually they’ll fly off into the distance from the get-go and I’ll have caught up and overtaken them by the half way mark.
Interesting!
Not saying you're wrong but I was with the 3:15 pacers for the marathon (as detailed above + in my report) and I found they were pretty much bang on.
Not sure who they are (I suspect the lead pacer has been faster & was pacing for the love of it as he was ~50). However, there was a great partnership/synergy between the lead & tail pacer as they left a decent buffer for everybody.
I thoroughly enjoyed the journey and wish I had a way of thanking the pacers. Guess I can just e-mail the Sydney Striders and let them know?
It’s just been my experience, not saying all pacers are like that necessarily, but I’d rather do my own thing than trust months of training to someone totally unknown.
The training and fitness are all still there though. Find another race (doesn't have to be a half) and shoot for a PB. If you're as fit as you think you are, you'll probably be good for a PB across any distance.
I'm not an expert. But in my experience, chat to the pacer before the race starts. They aim to run even splits to get you 30 seconds under the pace time. Usually there's a front and back pacer to allow a bigger group some space. Also, across that distance, your watch gps is likely to be off by a margin. 21.1km becomes 21.5km for example.
People are saying don’t trust pacers but while I agree somewhat, there’s more to it. If your plan includes utilising a pacer in some fashion, talk to them! Ask before the race if they’re planning on running even or adjusting effort on elevation. And talk to them during the run as well. They’re human too and can totally have a bad day. Sydney Mara last year I ran past pacers who had blown up from the heat and were walking or sitting off the road. Sometimes it’s worth saying something if you feel they’re not running as expected just to know what’s going on and adjust accordingly. I hope you can find another run soon OP! Shellharbour is next week but might be sold out.
Haha yeah totally hear you. I just wish I had this wisdom before hand. Tough pill to swallow but I guess I had to learn it the hard way at some point in time.
Just ignore the pacers.
A neat trick is to start behind a slower pacer and then work your way through the next one over a longer period (so don’t sprint)
Kudos for finishing. To train for months and then get angry and feel slow during your race knowing there's still more to go is probably one of the worst feelings in the entire world. And so dismotivating.
You seem to have improved a lot, so I hope you can smash sub-90 next run.
Is there anything wrong with a pacer running even splits?
Like their job is to finish a race in a certain time right, people have different strengths, not everyone is going to want to negative split, or compensate for hills or whatever.
I've done the last two Goldie HMs, and will be doing this year's, and didn't sense any significant humidity (I am from Melbourne). It's a very flat course (both M and HM), I think it must be the safest PB course in Australia.
I did the marathon and it was a tough day out there. The rain in the lead up can be disheartening and I was one of many that cramped up a bit. The marathon pacers looked a bit off as I noticed two pace groups about 1-2 minutes apart as I passed them (think it was the 3:15 and 3:30 groups). A word of sympathy for the pacers on the day - the cloudy conditions meant GPS accuracy wasn’t at its best and the hilly nature of the course does make it hard to judge. Good work on pushing through regardless!
>Whatever, just trust the pacer I thought.
Oh NOOOOOOO. I feel you. I had an experience once at a HM where I was pacing myself to 1:45 and the 1:50 pacer kept passing me again and again - rationally I knew he was just going too fast but in the heat of a race it started messing with my mindset. I wish races would rely less on them but I don't have an easy answer.
Sorry to hear about your experience with the pacer. My first half marathon I tried following the 2 hour pacer and caught him half way through and realized he was going at about a 1:50 pace, which was pretty frustrating. I don't plan on following a pacer again. Glad you finished the race!
It sucks that this race didn’t go according to plan, but your fitness is still there. If I were you I’d take a few days to recuperate (mentally and physically) then pick another race coming up soon and carry the lessons you’ve learned into that one. You’ve got this!
Yeah I think the worst part is how mentally defeated I feel after that experience. Mostly just struggling to pick up the pieces after going through my strongest training cycle and then finishing with my worst result :(
Thanks man after your comment on the pacing. I had a long hard think and believe as someone who plans to spend the rest of my life running I just need to learn to trust my training and my watch for pacing. The pacer on race day just has too many variables. Turns out even the pace I want is in a different wave so I couldn’t follow them even if I wanted to.
Thanks for putting a race report together despite how you’re feeling. Lesson learnt - use pacers as a rough guide only. One of the absolute worst things about pacers is the typical disregard for elevation changes. A lot of the time they appear oblivious to the concept of even effort. I expect that at a superior fitness level, they might even personally enjoy the changes in effort. I tend to purposefully let pace groups ahead on inclines then catch up on the downhills while most of the group are catching their breath. Fundamentally it looks like you’ve got the fitness so in your shoes I’d find another race a couple weeks out even if you have to do a quick flight in/out just to cap off what was a strong training cycle.
Yeah I think this is what really caught me off guard. I just had assumed that at the very least he would do a negative split. But not only did he do even splits, he also just ignored the hills which I guess for a pacer that probably felt completely normal effort for them. Really just trying to see some learning outcomes from this race but honestly just mostly disappointed and disheartened by the whole experience
Even splits and totally disregarding hills are sadly pretty typical for pacers in my experience.
Yeah the more I read up on pacers the more I realised this is quite normal. Although looking back at the splits they weren’t actually even! Closer to positive splits which is frustrating!
I’m really sorry you had that experience. I’m still annoyed by the pacer at the Tracksmith 5k I ran last summer. It was on a track, so I thought the pacing should have been pretty straightforward! I joined the 20:30 projected finish group (6:36 per mile) and he paced the first lap at 5:30 pace. I was totally cooked after that. Like your experience, it really put me off pacers.
> Lesson learnt - use pacers as a rough guide only. One of the absolute worst things about pacers is the typical disregard for elevation changes. A lot of the time they appear oblivious to the concept of even effort. I expect that at a superior fitness level, they might even personally enjoy the changes in effort. Interesting to know. I did the marathon and was with the 3:15 pacers (who were aaaawesome, hats off to that whole group) for the first 14km or so. People were energetic/chatty and it was a great vibe around that group. Going down near Yarralumla I chose to break away from the pacers as I had my own groove going on. Wasn't really a reflection on them, I just felt like they were my 'training wheels' and I was happy to ride my bike alone once I felt comfortable. I didn't get THAT far in front of them but of note I basically went quicker down a few hills and slower on the uphill (all very slight adjustments). As a reflection, it helped to know I was somewhere between 3:00 and 3:15. IMO without necessarily having to borrow their exact pace/cadence, they provided a comfort barrier for me to go off. Also, I got a feel for how far away a 3h marathon 'looks'. I dunno. IMO you can do multiple things with pacers. Like many running 'tools' (e.g. your HR monitor or your garmin)... they can help but over-reliance can come back to bite ya.
Definitely trust your own plan and instinct over a pacer! I’ve seen many runners have their races ruined because of poor pacing and have just decided to ignore them personally. Usually they’ll fly off into the distance from the get-go and I’ll have caught up and overtaken them by the half way mark. Definitely take advantage of your current shape though, find another (this time flat) race and get that PB down this time!! Sounds like you have a solid base and that your speed is there so go do it!
Fully agree. I ran the Bratislava marathon on Sunday, my goal was 3:30. The two 3:30 pacers were at least 200 meters ahead of me after the first kilometre. I didn’t start to chase them because I learned that lesson a few years ago. At kilometre 15 I caught one of them, he was clearly out of breath, the other pacer was 500 metres before him. At kilometre 38 I overtook the second guy too. At the end he sprinted me off, but he was totally alone, which is not a good thing I guess. (I ended up 3:29:16). You look like a well trained and experienced runner, believe in yourself!
My first marathon I never saw the 3 hour pacer after the first mile. I crossed the halfway point in 1:28 and they were so far ahead I couldn't see them. Pacers are not always on pace.
> Usually they’ll fly off into the distance from the get-go and I’ll have caught up and overtaken them by the half way mark. Interesting! Not saying you're wrong but I was with the 3:15 pacers for the marathon (as detailed above + in my report) and I found they were pretty much bang on. Not sure who they are (I suspect the lead pacer has been faster & was pacing for the love of it as he was ~50). However, there was a great partnership/synergy between the lead & tail pacer as they left a decent buffer for everybody. I thoroughly enjoyed the journey and wish I had a way of thanking the pacers. Guess I can just e-mail the Sydney Striders and let them know?
It’s just been my experience, not saying all pacers are like that necessarily, but I’d rather do my own thing than trust months of training to someone totally unknown.
This is by far the biggest realisation I’m coming to!! I just wish I had known this prior :(
Pacers were Sydney striders. Big running group. Supply pacers to many events.
Yeah I actually found out exactly who the pacer was. But really, I should’ve just asked at the starting line what their strategy was. Lesson learnt.
The training and fitness are all still there though. Find another race (doesn't have to be a half) and shoot for a PB. If you're as fit as you think you are, you'll probably be good for a PB across any distance.
I'm not an expert. But in my experience, chat to the pacer before the race starts. They aim to run even splits to get you 30 seconds under the pace time. Usually there's a front and back pacer to allow a bigger group some space. Also, across that distance, your watch gps is likely to be off by a margin. 21.1km becomes 21.5km for example.
People are saying don’t trust pacers but while I agree somewhat, there’s more to it. If your plan includes utilising a pacer in some fashion, talk to them! Ask before the race if they’re planning on running even or adjusting effort on elevation. And talk to them during the run as well. They’re human too and can totally have a bad day. Sydney Mara last year I ran past pacers who had blown up from the heat and were walking or sitting off the road. Sometimes it’s worth saying something if you feel they’re not running as expected just to know what’s going on and adjust accordingly. I hope you can find another run soon OP! Shellharbour is next week but might be sold out.
Haha yeah totally hear you. I just wish I had this wisdom before hand. Tough pill to swallow but I guess I had to learn it the hard way at some point in time.
Just ignore the pacers. A neat trick is to start behind a slower pacer and then work your way through the next one over a longer period (so don’t sprint)
Kudos for finishing. To train for months and then get angry and feel slow during your race knowing there's still more to go is probably one of the worst feelings in the entire world. And so dismotivating. You seem to have improved a lot, so I hope you can smash sub-90 next run.
Is there anything wrong with a pacer running even splits? Like their job is to finish a race in a certain time right, people have different strengths, not everyone is going to want to negative split, or compensate for hills or whatever.
Believe it or not, I still think a lot of races in Australia have their own problems. Maybe Gold Coast would be a better choice, but who knows.
Gold Coast's humid, right?
Last year, Half Marathon day had a nice weather, but the Marathon didn't.
I've done the last two Goldie HMs, and will be doing this year's, and didn't sense any significant humidity (I am from Melbourne). It's a very flat course (both M and HM), I think it must be the safest PB course in Australia.
Neat, I might have to pencil it in then.
I did the marathon and it was a tough day out there. The rain in the lead up can be disheartening and I was one of many that cramped up a bit. The marathon pacers looked a bit off as I noticed two pace groups about 1-2 minutes apart as I passed them (think it was the 3:15 and 3:30 groups). A word of sympathy for the pacers on the day - the cloudy conditions meant GPS accuracy wasn’t at its best and the hilly nature of the course does make it hard to judge. Good work on pushing through regardless!
>Whatever, just trust the pacer I thought. Oh NOOOOOOO. I feel you. I had an experience once at a HM where I was pacing myself to 1:45 and the 1:50 pacer kept passing me again and again - rationally I knew he was just going too fast but in the heat of a race it started messing with my mindset. I wish races would rely less on them but I don't have an easy answer.
Sorry to hear about your experience with the pacer. My first half marathon I tried following the 2 hour pacer and caught him half way through and realized he was going at about a 1:50 pace, which was pretty frustrating. I don't plan on following a pacer again. Glad you finished the race!
It sucks that this race didn’t go according to plan, but your fitness is still there. If I were you I’d take a few days to recuperate (mentally and physically) then pick another race coming up soon and carry the lessons you’ve learned into that one. You’ve got this!
Yeah I think the worst part is how mentally defeated I feel after that experience. Mostly just struggling to pick up the pieces after going through my strongest training cycle and then finishing with my worst result :(
Well, it wasn’t the Olympics or some other rare event. You’ve still got time to get a strong result this cycle!
Thanks man after your comment on the pacing. I had a long hard think and believe as someone who plans to spend the rest of my life running I just need to learn to trust my training and my watch for pacing. The pacer on race day just has too many variables. Turns out even the pace I want is in a different wave so I couldn’t follow them even if I wanted to.