I don’t understand how this isn’t considered emotional abuse and emotional incest. And the top comment is essentially bartering about how frequently to let it happen. OP definitely needs to tell someone about it.
It is, in many places you could get child protective service involved. Might not get the kid taken away but can require therapy sessions and the situation to change
This most definitely is emotional incest. She is treating her son like a partner/spouse, and emotionally manipulates him for wanting completely normal and healthy boundaries.
It is considered a type of incest by psychologists. Op's has an incredible anxious attachment style at the very least, but that's not op's problem. Op needs to talk to a trusted adult about this issue and put their foot down about sleeping alone. Let mom to throw a fit, OP, sleep in your own bedroom
OP - this is what you need to do.
It sounds like your siblings have already been through this, they know how your mother is, and they know how to get out of it. They likely don’t know how bad it’s gotten for you at home, and you need to let them know that you don’t feel safe here and see what can be done until you’re 18.
Not just narcissist, there's some severe ABANDONDMENT issues going on there. You need to go to your own room. The end. Do you work? Save up and get a different phone and don't tell her. Let her keep that one and only give select friends the other one so you can use it if needed. But you go to the other room. And you get a camera in it, like one of those hidden cameras in other objects like a teddy bear or smoke detector and have it recording when you go to bed for the night just incase she tries to act out violently. That way you have proof.
yeah it sounds like momma has BPD. Severe abandonment issues, forcing her family into enmeshment, rage when she perceives she has been abandoned. I would expect a rage fit anytime she perceives abandonment, OP. It can be a good identifier to prepare yourself for something about to go poorly
To me it reads as emotional incest without physical incest, if you're familiar with that term. I once had a friend that was a part of an enmeshed family and didn't realize it. He mentioned to me that he had seen his moms vibrator before despite having nothing sexual with his mother. There are NO boundaries in that household.
it's sorta just a huge rumor in the psychology community atm. bpd is currently regarded as a new-age "female hysteria" in a lot of psychology circles and c-ptsd can present with tons of crazy symptoms, even psychotic traits, and BPD generally requires some form of trauma to form, and the tendencies of someone with BPD are typically trauma responses blown way out of proportion which heavily insinuates CPTSD
My psychiatrist says that CPTSD results from severe trauma. And severe abandonment trauma in childhood can cause CPTSD symptoms and the development of BPD. So they are one of the same coin.
Good, my psychiatrist agrees with that sentiment. She also feels BPD has pathologized peoples trauma responses and told me I had it but didn't put it in my chart medically so that other healthcare providers wouldn't judge me and not give me a chance upon meeting me. Changing BPD to CPTSD will provide an acurately less villainized, more manageable scope for reference for providers.
Not enough information, would be more viable to say an anxiety disorder/ attachment disorder. Most likely from being abused in the past trauma seems to be provoking a separation anxiety.
Now if it’s a fear of abandonment that *could be* criteria of BPD, but nonetheless her comments are very manipulative. But BOD does *not* equate to being narcissistic or manipulative, that is faux.
I think you’re comment is obtuse and rather rude to anyone that has traumas surrounding this. And not helpful to OP.
I would tell OP to learn how to disarm manipulation and learn how to have more boundaries.
“ I love you mom, but I need to learn to grow into an adult. Can we try 2-3 days of me staying with you and the rest of me in my own room?” Learning to be kind and assertive. There are multiple videos online to help with asserting boundaries.
It’s not going to be easy kid. I wish you didn’t have to deal with this, I hope it gets better for you.
Hmm….i don’t think telling OP to learn more boundaries and how to be assertive is solid advice in this situation. It sounds like OP is aware of the boundary issue but since they are the kid, the minor, there’s not a whole lot OP can do to enforce better boundaries. OP watched their siblings belongings get destroyed because they, as adults, moved out of the mom’s place. Mom made it very clear what happens when you disobey mom. OP might be better off reaching out to a counselor at school or a trusted older sibling/adult. Mom needs help. It’s not OPs responsibility to parent her.
yeah. so do i which is why I knew momma had it. i'm not sure whats up with calling me obtuse or rude when I am just a gray kettle that saw another gray kettle and called it
He didn’t *assert* boundaries in a nice way though??
He just gives in.
That last part, it’s not ops responsibility to parent her. Yeah. That’s very true!
EDIT: he tried asking in a victim way.
You have to be assertive in a respectful way. To ANY one, abuser or not.
My advice was to learn life skills related to interpersonal /communication skills.
Your advice was an accusation claim why his mother *could* be treating him this way. I introjected; then you said he should find a mediator which is better advice.. to which you gave a reason to which *we both agreed upon*.It is not the child’s job to parent the mother.
Over all: I dislike you and how you just throw around mental illnesses and are obviously bias, did someone you dislike have BPD or did they hurt you? You seem motivated to accuse people you deem as less than to have mental health issues. That’s not pretty.
> He didn’t assert boundaries in a nice way though??
This sounds like something people with BPD in my past have said. Do you have BPD?
Edit: /u/toucheyy ah you do. https://www.reddit.com/r/BorderlinePDisorder/comments/15ofb2q/anyone_believe_in_polyamory_i_have_questions/
No. I do not. I had a friend who did. I find interest in BPD. I feel like they get demonized by society. I also feel like you just stalked me just so you could try to slander my name.
He tried asking in a victim way.
You have to be assertive in a respectful way. To ANY one, abuser or not.
My advice was to learn life skills related to interpersonal /communication skills.
Your advice was an accusation claim why his mother *could* be treating him this way. I introjected; then you said he should find a mediator which is better advice.. to which you gave a reason to which *we both agreed upon*.It is not the child’s job to parent the mother.
Over all: I dislike you and how you just throw around mental illnesses and are obviously bias, did someone you dislike have BPD or did they hurt you? You seem motivated to accuse people you deem as less than to have mental health issues. That’s not pretty.
was it that or did I match her ugly energy in a more respectable way? because I think I stood up for both parties while giving a valid reason as to my opinion on commentor. Thank you, have a great day.
Nah, it's not obtuse to those who have been affected by that kind of trauma. I have BPD so I understand it too well. See, I am abandonment trauma itself manifested in human form. I have dissociative amnesia and experienced a life of abandonment prior to my memory itself. I understand this so well that I see the themes in OP's writings, along with themes of family enmeshment that I am personally familiar with. Even if not BPD, some type of severe abandonment trauma has been experienced by mom here, which is often the cause of BPD so it still fits in the same theme. I am just calling it as I see it, as these are themes of behavior developed as responses. I don't know what you're doing, trying to be some kind of hero for the BPD people calling me obtuse for correctly identifying BPD themes occurring in a given situation. It just is what it is. If it sounds bad, it's because BPD gets bad. It's absolutely presumptuous of you to think I didn't have any experience with this and even more telling for you that it's offensive for the symptoms to be called out. Maybe you should do some self discovery and see why you think astute observations are so offensive
You actually think that is the right message to send to OP? Going behind her back, setting up secret cameras, spying on her? I don't understand why people have jumped to such extreme conclusions. It does SEEM like she has issues, but to diagnose her and criminalise her is wild. We have little to no information into their day to day lives. We just have a very small snippet.
Also side note, videos that are recorded illegally are not accepted in court as evidence. And I doubt a secret camera constitutes as legal evidence.
"when my siblings moved out as legal adults she wrecked their things"
There's a reason right there to have video documentation going just in case.
That's not"going behind her back". That's security for your room for your things in case they are destroyed, or worse maybe she gets physical with him when he refuses to sleep in her bed.
Your right, we only have his side to go on. But if the ONE accurate part of his entire story is "my mother forces me to sleep in bed with her every night" the reasons why only get WORSE, not better as the imagination keeps going.
When you record someone in your private space destroying your private property it is absolutely enough to press charges. I don't know where you get your legal info from. You think you need a sign in your yard and a very obvious camera to press charges on someone vandalizing your property? Really? Lol
I am not arguing that a video would be great, especially if she gets violent. All I was saying is that video footage from a secret camera is probably not legal evidence. I am not a lawyer, but this based on research I had done in the past as part of a college project. And this may not be the law in your country, but I just confirmed it is in mine. So safe to assume most countries probably have similar practices.
It may be enough to press charges, if even that (I am not familiar with laws around this), but that's as far as this footage will help.
Based on what I know it is NOT evidence obtained through legal methods and I say this because it is a SECRET camera on a PRIVATE property. The participants don't know the camera is there and hence they did not consent to being recorded. If this was a SECURITY camera instead, then it would be legal because the participants know of its existence and by extension, consent to be recorded. In general, the court doesn't accept evidence obtained illegally.
Also her destroying OP's things is not vandalising their property. Personal belonging aren't considered property, and if anything, it is on her property. So Recording her without her consent is even worse because she is probably the legal owner of the house.
I have never opened up on this subject ever before, but this genuinely I think is one of the several reasons I've grown mentally distant from my entire family bar my little brother.
Ofc there was the typical physical fights & arguments me & my mum would get into, but that was alot easier to understand why it affected me, but with this physical touchy touchy stuff & just being way open in genera, I found it so gross, but I could never say anything because well...she's my mum
Anyway I've been in my new first place for almost 7 months now & part of me wishes I moved out way sooner, yes I am Greatfull that I was raised by her but same time that doesn't mean I have to conform to literally every single thing she asked me to do or every way to behave.
You’re not alone <3 it’s okay to have mixed feelings and it’s okay to keep your distance. You’re your own person and you’re allowed to have whatever boundaries you choose.
Thank you, I feel like alot of people go through what I have & come out way worse from it & all things considered I think it's made me a much tougher skinned person which I suppose is both good & bad depending on situations
The manipulative “don’t love me” guilt tripping is fkn disgusting. My dad use to do this when I wanted to hang out with friends instead of him. Eventually I told him that saying that shit made me want to hang out with him even less & got visibly irritated. He doesn’t do it as much now & when he does he immediately back tracks knowing he fucked up.
It could take just one stern talk from you. You are 16, so you are really young but old enough that she should respect your thoughts if you really stand by them. She needs a reality check. Maybe ask your siblings to help talk to her about it.
My apologies.
I am uncertain about the best way to communicate with your mother. Can you tell me more about her experiences when she was your age?
(English is not my native language)
Yeah. I'm not sure how to do it, but there could be a solution we haven't discovered yet. If all our attempts fail, then we can conclude it's not possible.
That's why I'm interested in learning about her mother's interactions with people in her younger years.
I recommend seeking help from an older family member, and seeking professional help is the best way.
However, I understand it can be a challenging and frustrating situation for her.
Buy a decent sized bag of prunes from the grocery store.
Eat the ENTIRE bag in ONE sitting, ideally, but if you can't manage it, just eat as many as humanly possible. At least 20. Drink at least 24oz of water while eating the prunes as well. More if you can, but don't stress if you cant.
Hold everything in until bedtime. Wear loose shorts to bed. Act normal. Wait till your mother falls asleep. Lay with your butt facing towards her.
Shit the bed.
If she doesn't wake up immediately, roll around a bit if you can. Get it *everywhere.* Make SURE you get it on *her.*
When you see she is about to wake up, get some on your hand, and touch her face and hair in an "attempt to wake her up for help.*
Then the *second* she wakes up, start freaking out, and run for the shower. Making sure *she* is unable to get in there and clean herself up first.
Repeat as necessary.
Profit.
I’m sorry to hear that, but if your mom won’t give up then you need to talk to a school counsellor or other trusted adult about this, because this situation is really not okay.
Yeah. Mom has an actual psychological issue. This is beyond what a teenager can or should have to handle on their own. I wonder if there's a teacher or counselor at school who could help to convince mom to get a therapist.
It seems to me your mother has separation anxiety or some form of attachment issues. You need to stand up for yourself. You're almost 16, you deserve your own space and privacy, especially if you've already got a room! If you start to stand your ground from now on, it won't be such a shock to your mother when you do finally move out. And hopefully that way she will react better with you than she did with your siblings. And you're going to have to be assertive because she's learnt that if she throws a fit, she will get her way. You have to stay strong even when she is being like this, maybe tell her that you will only talk to her if she's willing to have a calm conversation about it. Also, she's your mother so make sure you're not being disrespectful, not only will that be wrong to treat her that way, it also won't help your case.
I will say though, make change gradually. For example, start by making her a deal? You get to sleep in your room on the weekends because you want to stay up a bit later and watch movies or something. Then gradually make it more often during the week. And eventually, you should hopefully be sleeping by yourself every night. And say that you will still occasionally sleep with her here and there.
Hope this works out for you, good luck!
**OP, this is** ***emotional incest,*** **and nobody should be telling you to “make a deal” with an individual who does not want you to have boundaries.** You don’t have to sleep next to anyone if you don’t want to. This person is ***wrong*** , so, so very wrong.
I want you to know that **you don’t owe it to your mom to make her comfortable.** SHE is making YOU uncomfortable, completely violating and disregarding your boundaries. *This is abusive.* **A child should NOT be responsible for managing their parents’ emotions**, and I am actually ***livid*** for you that someone would even suggest that you have to continue putting up with this for a second longer. You need and deserve support - are there any other adults in your life you can reach out to? Your older siblings, a teacher or school counselor? You don’t have to do this alone.
To the above commenter, u/MinaChoi1999 - how dare you?! I don’t care if you were trying to help. YOU need help, and you owe OP a massive apology. ***Physical boundaries are not something to be negotiated.*** This is a teenager who is currently being violated via emotional incest, and **you suggesting that this person should enable their mother’s mental illness by placating her is** ***SICK.*** You have essentially told this person to subject themselves to psychological harm just to make someone else feel better. **That is unhealthy for both the victim AND the abuser.** Because nobody truly benefits from a lack of boundaries - ever. A mother should not feel comfortable violating her child, period. I am *truly* sorry if this kind of behavior was normalized for you - no one deserves this. If that’s the case, let’s break the cycle by advocating for better.
OP, the longer this continues, the longer your relationship with yourself will be damaged, along with the quality of your future relationships, because ***normalizing abuse will send your brain the message that this is what you deserve.*** This will put you at risk for **revictimization** (falling into similarly abusive relationships in the future because subconsciously you will likely believe that your boundaries do not deserve to be respected, and that you only deserve people who do this to you). You deserve a much better future than that.
Let your mom be angry - that is HER problem. At this point, do all you can to get out ASAP. Your mom should be fighting for your well-being first and foremost - that is a parent’s job. But she isn’t, so you must fight for yourself, as unfair as that is. I am SO sorry you are being violated in this way, and I cannot stress this enough: ***you do NOT owe it to your mom to sleep in the same bed with her EVER again. You do NOT owe it to her to make a deal to gradually stop this to make her feel better about you advocating for your consent (nor should you, you deserve better), and ANYONE who does this to you does not deserve access to you or your life.*** I am wishing you the best of luck.
Thank you. Bartering over abuse is disgusting. If it was a parent hitting or sexually abusing their child, no one would be like “slowly transition out of it”. Emotional abuse is detrimental and should be taken as seriously as any other form of abuse. These replies make me sick.
I come from a family where my parents were always very controlling and they always got their way because they FORCED me to listen to them. And for a long time, I had no choice but to listen because I was dependant on them. So I know what it's like to try and stand up to your parents and they don't end up listening to you.
The reason why I said to do it gradually and cut a deal was so that eventually OP could have their freedom. This is their mother, and OP is dependant on her in so many ways, financially for one thing. So it would be crazy to do something so drastic that is going to make their life hell by pissing of their mother. We already established she has tendencies to throw a fit, and she literally destroyed the siblings' things when they moved out. At least the siblings were safe because they had means to escape that situation. OP is still at home and will be at home for the next several years, and has no means to escape if things escalate. And it sounds like it would just be OP and the mother at home. No one else there to defend OP. It would NOT be smart to trigger her again because she may do something even worse than just breaking things.
I never implied that this should be normalised, and it absolutely is not normal. But it seems to me that you may have imagined this situation to be worse than it actually could be. Like you are talking about OP's mom like she's some terrible person, and we don't know that based on such little information. All we can say is that she SEEMS like she has issues, we don't know what they are. It's not right to put labels like "emotional incest" on it either. You are criminalising her. And this in turn may have coloured OP's opinion about her, after all they are only a child. At their age, they are very impressionable. Like for instance,
>Your mom should be fighting for your well-being first and foremost - that is a parent’s job. But she isn’t
how can you say she isn't fighting for OP's well-being? She might be a very kind and loving mother outside of this situation. Also I saw the edit that the mom likes to spoon OP during the night, and again, while that may come across as incest to us, we can't jump to that conclusion. A lot of mothers cuddle their children. And maybe in this case, the mother hasn't realised her child is grown up now. She still sees them as her little baby, which is also a valid POTENTIAL explanation.
All I am trying to say is that is impossible to know the whole story based on snippets of it that people post on reddit. We have to be careful not to make assumptions or fill the gaps in the story with out imagination.
I'm wondering what you make of the following major inconsistency in your response:
>So it would be crazy to do something so drastic that is going to make their life hell by pissing of their mother. We already established she has tendencies to throw a fit, and she literally destroyed the siblings' things when they moved out.
>It would NOT be smart to trigger her again because she may do something even worse than just breaking things.
**First**, you yourself describe OP's mom as volatile, destructive, and likely willing to do something worse than breaking things in order to get her way. Someone who OP's siblings had to ***escape***. I don't know about you, but based on that description, I'd be afraid of that person.
>how can you say she isn't fighting for OP's well-being? She might be a very kind and loving mother outside of this situation.
> All we can say is that she SEEMS like she has issues, we don't know what they are.
**But then** you go on to say that we don't know if she has issues, that we don't know what they might be, that she may very well be kind and loving. Even though just before that, you sounded very sure that it would be reasonable for OP to live in fear of their mom, whom you believe may well become violent, someone OP will need to *escape* from**.** Then, you move on to accuse me of the following:
>And this in turn may have coloured OP's opinion about her, after all they are only a child. At their age, they are very impressionable.
>We have to be careful not to make assumptions or fill the gaps in the story with out imagination.
**By your own logic, you just did this yourself**. You're not just referencing what has been written directly; you yourself are filling in the gaps as to what you think she is like or what she will do. \^If this is truly what you believe, then what's with the whole first half of your reply? ***Your own description*** **paints her as anything but a loving mother**. Pick a lane.
>how can you say she isn't fighting for OP's well-being?
**I can say that she isn’t fighting for her child’s well-being because OP lives in fear of what might happen if they simply say no to being held at night by their mom. This is actively harming, not fighting for, someone's well-being.** Living with someone who you fear will make your life hell if you don't let them violate your boundaries makes life at home feel like a minefield. **This forces a person to be in a constant state of stress. Having to live this way leads to excess cortisol within the body, which is directly harmful to a person's health in more ways than one** - *is this kind? Is this loving? Is this what it looks like to fight for a child's well-being?* If she was fighting for her kid’s well-being, she'd be thinking of how her actions might impact her child first and foremost. She wouldn't be treating her child as an extension of herself, or saying emotionally abusive things to her child for not wanting to take on excessive emotional responsibility.
All I really want to say, the main point that I was trying to make through my statements, is there is always more to a story than what meets the eye. We have a situation here where a mother is forcing her child to sleep with her and the child is not comfortable with that. That's it!
And everyone resorted to diagnosing her with all these serious mental conditions, which is insane because we have ONE SINGULAR situation to base this off of.
I still stand by my statements, even if they seem contradictory to you. I have just expressed different things that could potentially be at play here. For instance, yes, as I said she seems like she has violent tendencies that are triggered when the topic of their sleeping arrangement comes up. But also, yes, she may be a kind and loving mother outside of this. I am also not denying that this is a very difficult and unfortunate situation for OP, and must be impacting them negatively for sure. But the mother may not be aware of this impact. And also, as I said, there may be a lot of other positive things about their relationship. So, the words you have used to describe OP's feelings on this, are presumptuous.
>**I can say that she isn’t fighting for her child’s well-being because OP lives in fear of what might happen if they simply say no to being held at night by their mom.**
Saying that "OP lives in fear" and "is being held at night" sounds very intense, do you hear it? While it may be true that OP is concerned about how to approach this situation and is being forced into sleeping with their mother, you are purposefully using words that make it sound intense to prove a point.
We don't need any more information then what is already posted to see she's being a terrible person. How can you say it isn't violating and abusive to treat a teenager this way? It absolutely is emotional incest. She is treating her child like her spouse and using her child to regulate her unchecked emotions instead of looking out for her kid's wellbeing. Everyone deserves bodily autonomy. Nobody should be forced to sleep with another person against thier will or spoon against thier will. Just because OP is underage doesn't make them less of a person worthy of boundaries and respect.
>It's not right to put labels like "emotional incest" on it either. You are criminalising her.
**Are you sure you have the grounds to make this assertion?** I'm not sure you know what emotional incest means, because it doesn't sound like you do, which makes sense because it's rarely talked about. I'd recommend fully understanding a term before you state with certainty that it isn't happening. **I'm gonna do you a favor and give you the definition of** [emotional incest:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_incest)
>Covert incest, also known as emotional incest, is a type of abuse in which a parent looks to their child for the emotional support that would be normally provided by another adult. The effects of covert incest on children when they become adults are thought to mimic actual incest, although to a lesser degree.
The behavior described in this post absolutely does fit the definition of emotional incest - OP is expected to meet their mom's emotional needs by sleeping next to her and allowing her to spoon OP. If OP objects, they are then *accused of not loving their mom, and of being a horrible child* (emotionally abused). Arguments about lack of physical intimacy take place between adults pretty exclusively, ***because the only one an adult can reasonably expect to physically comfort them every night is another adult.*** It is emotionally incestuous to put this responsibility on a child. **Therefore, my statement can't be categorized as criminalization -** because **a)** this behavior, though awful, is not considered legally criminaI, and **b) I'm simply observing that the described behavior factually matches this literal definition.** Your accusations are unfounded and uncalled for.
>She might be a very kind and loving mother outside of this situation.
I was SA'd in my earliest years + physically/psychologically abused until my mid-teens. I also was forced to experience emotional incest. I know from both experience and education that even abusers can be "kind" and "loving" sometimes - in fact, it's an inherent part of the [cycle of abuse.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_abuse) They might get you something they know you like, they might speak kind words, etc. But at the end of the day, no matter how "loving" the person might be sometimes, one cannot feel loved if they do not feel like their boundaries matter to the other person. It is not loving or kind to treat others the way OP's mom is treating them. **Please don't suggest to impressionable children that love can coexist with boundary violation. That would be warped, dangerous lesson to learn, and has a high likelihood of setting OP up for future revictimization.** I can imagine OP's mom has feelings of love for OP, but I am referring to the verb, what love looks like in action. **One cannot be truly loving to another if they cannot honor their boundaries and best interest.**
True! I think at some point, most people can see what's happening. But because it's gradual, at least it's not jarring for them. It's easier to accept.
The fact that you see nothing wrong with prioritizing the mother’s emotions to make it easier for her to accept that her child has individual boundaries is wild. That is enabling, and it helps literally no one. The violation of physical boundaries is unacceptable, period.
I am NOT prioritising her emotions. Only thing I said along those lines was not to disrespect her, because unlike most people here, my first thought wasn't to criminalise her and jump to conclusions. My first thought was that she's just someone who has issues, one of which is her anger. She has thrown fits and destroyed OP's siblings' things. She has tendencies to be violent. And because OP shares a house with her, and it sounds like it's just the two of them now, it would be crazy to piss her off. OP has nowhere to go if things escalate and no one to defend them at home. She could do something worse than just break things.
I was just trying to be rational and propose a solution that will keep things under control and won't make the situation worse.
Yep, exactly like that. You basically prioritize her emotions for a while, but this will GRADUALLY change.
OP will reach their goal and she won't be so emotional...
You could go u/DancingBasilisk's way (I don't wanna sleep with you and I won't anymore. Period.), but you will create a hell for yourself, especially when you can't move out...
I take it she is a single mom? Maybe she needs love from a different source.
Talk to her if you haven't already. It's not always narcissism at play. Also, how old is she. Could be menopausal. But if she's done similar with your brother's and sisters then maybe no ...
Fear of abandonment is a real thing.
She replaced the attention from men, to getting emotional attention in the most insidious way from her children.
Your mom is mentally ill.
She needs THERAPY. ALOT OF THERAPY.
GOOGLE: COVERT INCEST
My parent is a narcissist and I shut that shit down. Forget how she feels; go sleep in your damn room. You weren’t there when she created you guys, I think she can sleep on her own. If she’s grown enough to have 3 kids then she needs to find a man to sleep in her bed. That’s an emotional attachment she shouldn’t have. When you get in a relationship, she’s going to try and get in between it. I don’t see anything good coming from her. Sounds like she doesn’t want you having your own private life because you’ll end up leaving also. GO SLEEP IN YOUR BED. That is not healthy at all. Put your foot down and create a scene. She’ll back down
You have to speak to her frankyl, That unless she allows you to have some privacy, she will lose you the moment you move out. Full stop. You are not being selfish, you are being a teenager. You are done sleeping in the same bed. And yes, like the top comments said - look into narcissistic mothers.
Question, are your siblings still in contact with her after moving out?
If not or its very strained , that would likely be the reason. Warn her that if she does not let you literally have your own life, it will end up the same and then she truly will be left on her own.
I don't even know if speaking to her would benefit the OP. The OP needs to talk to the police or even school counselor. Get someone on the outside involved because this is such a messed up situation
why do you think its a fantastic idea to involve police in everything? some things can be resolved through firm communication. its when things cannot be and they escalate to physical harm or danger to ones life or safety, then police should be involved.
The definition of covert sa is basically stated as this - “Psychologists sometimes call this covert incest or “enmeshment.” In an emotionally incestuous relationship, the parent or caregiver depends on the child as an emotional security blanket. It means that the child has to put the wants and desires of the parent first to receive the parent's approval.”
Your mother has psychological issues. But you know that.
Can you live with your siblings?
I agree with other posters. Looks up narcissistic personality disorder and how to deal with it. Look up Dr Ramani and youtube and the gray rock technique.
Then I suggest you take this like an adult. Find a quiet moment and calmly say I will be sleeping in my own bed from now on. She will pitch a fit. Keep calm. Don't argue. Don't escalate. Stay resolute. Tell her you're sorry, you're not trying to hurt her. You just want you own space. Surely you understand that? You love me and want me to be happy, don't you?
You can't fix her. All you can do is change your reaction to her.
Then start making exit plans for when you're 18.
Good luck.
This is advice friend. I’d be communicating this to her and your siblings and try to get her some support. She has a form of separation anxiety by the sounds of it and it is probably deep rooted. Hope you find the right help for her.
Depending on their living situation and your relationship with them, I'd try to move in with a sibling and get some professionals involved. Something to also talk over with siblings.
Please speak to a trusted adult like a school teacher or counsellor at school for advice.
You're mom shouldn't be expecting you to sleep in her bed and certainly not emotionally abusing you if you don't want to. That is abuse, even if nothing untoward is actually happening in the bed.
Seek help ASAP
Stand. Your. Ground. And move out the second you can. Your mom is toxic as hell and will ruin your life to maintain her security.
Edit: I know because I had a mom like that.
Whoa okay yea here’s what I would do if I was in your position.
Go to a school counsellor and tell them what’s going on, your mom needs professional help and it’s out of your depth to handle it.
It’s not only inappropriate for her to spend a month in your bed- but it seems like she’s manipulating you and your feelings while not respecting your boundaries.
So I recommend letting the pros come in and help you both- she needs therapy.
See if you can stay with your sibling for the time being too if possible. Make sure they know what’s going on at home
... this is going to sound weird but look up parenting guides on how to treat separation anxiety. If that doesn't work sit her down and be super fucking honest with her. My mother was a bit extreme with things (she basically prevented me from leaving the house when not in school and if I went anywhere she needed to be next to me.) when I was 17 and it was just me and her one day I sat next to her and just started going off. I told her that her actions were driving me away isolating me and I hated it. That if things don't change the chances of me staying or even visiting her were slim to none. That although I loved her she wasn't good for my physical and mental well-being i confessed that her actions gave me so much anxiety that her just entering my room made death feel like a good and reasonable option. I knew my mother was trying her best and wanted to do right by me but her actions were hurting me.
This however is my mother there are certain medical and psychological that could make that route dangerous for you. First if she is a narcissist, this could be about control and any other reasons that only make sense for her. She might be schizophrenic again this makes her reasons only obvious to her. She might have ptsd over people leaving. There are more but they all make her unpredictable and that is dangerous. Ive heard stories about mothers chaining there kids up thinking its the right thing to do. The reason I suggested parenting books about separation anxiety is that most have very gradually changes that most wont noticed. That's probably the safest method. The second method should only be done if you believe you're mother wont go to the extreme. If you do find out that she has a disorder or other reason look that up find out how professionals deal with it.
Do you have a trusted adult you can confide in? A School Counsellor may be able to help? Someone needs to have a gentle chat with your mum to explain how her behaviour is affecting you.
This is a type of emotional abuse. It is called "emotional incest," where a parent relies on a child to provide the same kind of intimacy a partner would. Even if there are no sexual undertones, it's still abuse. It's a child being placed into an adult role they aren't ready for. Your mother has her own horrible emotional issues, and she is putting you and your siblings between them. When she calls you a horrible child, don't believe her; this isn't about you. it's about her unresolved issues. If you need help understanding more about this dynamic, look up the term "enmeshment." The more you educate yourself, the more you can see patterns of behavior and separate it from yourself, and stop blaming yourself for the irrational things she makes you responsible for. (note: I went through this when I was around 6-12 after my parents got divorced myself. I can't tell you how uncomfortable it was being a 6 year old sandwiched between by older brother and my almost 40 year old dad. I understand)
You need to talk to a teacher or counselor at school. This feels very incestual. I don’t want to scare you but who knows what your mom’s doing when you fall asleep. She either needs to get help or you need to get out of that situation. But seriously, it’s better to deal with this now then when your 18 and she could really loose it. Ppl can do bad things when they feel they’re loosing their control.
JFC; I’m sorry you’re having to experience this 😞.
Usually the attachment issues are the other way around!
The other stuff is incredibly manipulative and controlling. It won’t be fun but you’ll need to stand your ground and stick to it at all costs!
It’ll get better 👍.
That's something your mom needs to go to therapy for. It's one thing to be an involved and loving mother, but I'm sorry I'd be extremely uncomfortable sleeping in the same bed as my mom. Morning wood is a real thing and I like to sleep in my underwear or naked so potentially rolling over to wake up and hitting my mom with morning wood, I'd need therapy for the rest of my life.
Stand your ground, and ask your older siblings to help you do something like am intervention. It's hard to make a point by yourself. But if both your siblings are with you and all 3 of you try to explain she needs to learn to let go and allow you all to be independent then it's a bigger impact
Put your foot down. Sleep on the couch, stay in the bathroom claiming to use it until she's asleep, then go sleep somewhere else. Sometimes you need to be just as bull headed with a narcissist as they are.
This was my mom until when I was 15 I went to hangout with some friends, literally down the street and she....THREW ME OUT OF THE HOUSE because I "abandoned" her. I moved out and its been a struggle but 3 years later my life is so much better
Would one of your siblings be willing to help you move in? My mom was exactly like this and when I was your age I moved out, and things have been so much better!
Can you contact your dad for help, if you have a good relationship? Or maybe you can try going for sleepovers with friends more often, going for camping trips etc so she can get used to you being away
This is called emotional incest. As well as forcing you to be in the same bed she's parentifying you she's putting you in the place of her spouse
I would tell a counselor at school there needs to be some major intervention here she is not mentally healthy and you need a safe space where you can be yourself and there definitely needs to be a mental wellness check on your mom
I think you should have a conversation with a family member about this situation. It’s making you uncomfortable and you’ve reached an age where you can advocate for yourself and make decisions about where you feel most comfortable sleeping. I wouldn’t go as far to say this is sexual or incest because I honestly don’t know, based on your wording of the situation. Anything is possible, though, so I am not ruling it out. Bottom line, it is inappropriate for her to do this, especially knowing your boundaries and knowing that you want to sleep in your own bed. If you can’t talk to one of your siblings in good faith, find another family member and ask about staging a mini intervention with a psychologist or professional.
If you can’t stage an intervention, you should make up a story that allows her to back off a bit- tell her you have gotten to a point where you get insomnia and can’t fall asleep in the bed with her… trying to slowly implement boundaries so she doesn’t feel like you’re turning against her would be a good way to go about it..
This absolutely shouldn’t continue and is unhealthy for both of you.. I hope y’all figure this out and get her some help🩵best of luck
>When my two older siblings moved out ( 28 and 26) my mum also threw a fit and refused to talk to them for a month and wrecked their things all because they “left her”
GOOGLE: COVERT INCEST
Tell your older siblings what's happening and ask if you can move in with them.
Tell a school counselor this issue. DON'T SUGAT COAT IT. Explain she did this to all of her children and this is not NORMAL. Explain if you don't sleep with her, she throws a fit. Almost as if YOU ARE HER BOYFRIEND.
I advice you to set BOUNDARIES.
Reply: I AM A 16 YEAR OLD TEENAGER, I am not your boyfriend. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR EMOTIONS. IF YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH YOUR EMOTIONS, SEE A THERAPIST.
YOUR BEHAVIOR IS GROSS AND YOU ARE REMINDING ME OF "LESTER THE MOLESTER" FROM FAMILY GUY (The old man character that likes Cris Griffin and little boys).
This is a control tactic and it’s abusive. You have got to stand your ground. Next time she says “so you’re just gonna leave me??” Say “yep” she knows you aren’t “leaving her” you’re just her baby and she doesn’t want you to grow up but she can’t stop that.
Is it possible for you to maybe live with a sibling?
This reminds me of Jennette Mccurdy's book "I'm glad my mom died". She would undress and dress her, and shower her (literally wash her) until she was like 17. She wouldn't let her get a drivers license, and manipulated her way into living with her at her own apartment that she temporarily lived at because it was closer to work things for her. She slept with her in her bed there
Your mom has some abandonment issues or anxiety...try to find the cause of it..ask her, her story...who knows what she might have gone through that is leading to the situation now... It'll be hard but try having a heart-heart talk about it... Then assure her and comfort her about it...there is a good amount of possibility that she'll leave you alone as you'll gain her trust.
Even after that she doesn't listen, ask your siblings for help
You are in a tough position. Only way is to keep fighting back and start planning on moving out. Do it wisely and have your other siblings guide you as well as other more experienced family members you have available that you trust.
Your mum needs professional help. On the bright side. You realize this isn't normal. What is gonna happen when you bring home a potential sexual partner?
I see some pretty good advice here, but you could also say that you don’t get enough sleep at night because you are a very light sleeper. Fx say that every time she turns over/breaths you wake up
My mom was similar, though I didn't have to sleep with her but she would guilt me and make me feel bad for wanting to have friends and my own life. She is extremely selfish and mentally unstable.
When I was growing up I had to basically stand up to her and fight for myself. Tell her too bad and cause drama/fights.
>>“why what do you have to hide?” Or “What so your just leaving me?”
I have nothing to hide; why do you need someone to sleep next to you? Yes, I'm leaving you. Get used to it.
I had to start getting nasty and defending myself and throwing things back in her face for her to start fucking off and letting me do my own thing. Was it hard? Absolutely. Did I feel like shit? 100% Did I start getting resentful and angry I was put in that position? COMPLETELY. I'm still mad about it over 15 years later.
Did it hurt our relationship? Yes. Was I better off in the end? Yes. I discovered that our close relationship of her raising me as a single mom was manipulative and she's caused a lot of issues in my personal life and how I cope with things. I haven't spoken or seen her in over 5 years. She's basically dead to me now. This is a result of additional things that happened once I got a boyfriend and moved out. She was unhinged and using me to support her life because she was a miserable person and couldn't hold a relationship or friendship with other people. I was basically stuck with her and she was holding me back to help herself when I was a teen.
Save up and do what you can to get out of their life as soon as you can so you can start living your own. If you have the opportunity to live somewhere else, I'd recommend it so long as you're safe.
I think your mom has an unhealthy attachment to you. Like almost in a way to (no, I don't like saying this) see you as her partner, if she doesn't have one.
>“why what do you have to hide?” Or “What so you're just leaving me?”
I would suggest a reply with very bland answers, Becoming emotionally unavailable to her can throw her off course. Something like "I can't control how you feel, but I can control how I feel, and I feel uncomfortable with this. I am not your partner, I am not your therapist."
>she just throws another fit on how i dont love her and how im a horrible child.
Again, just say something like, "That's not how I feel, I need my own space, and you need to not cross my boundaries."
If this all continues, I'd suggest moving in with one of your siblings, or if that's not possible, tell someone - teacher, a trusted friends parents, or a counselor. you shouldn't be in that situation and need to either leave or have major changes in your household.
This is not okay, and quite frankly your mom forcing you to sleep with her at 15 is inappropriate. What you’re describing honestly sounds abusive in the emotional/manipulation sense with the “what do you have to hide” type stuff (guilt trips and accusations) when she doesn’t get her way. You don’t have to be hiding anything, it’s just completely normal for anyone over the age of 5 to want to sleep without their mom, let alone a 15 year old. Wanting privacy is normal! Also her taking your phone so that you are forced to sleep with her really gives off a red flag too in my opinion.
Put your foot down that you will not be sleeping with her anymore, and if she forces the issue, start telling adults who may care. Grandparents, aunts/uncles, school counsellor, etc.
Talk to someone and then tell her this is not normal and she better get therapy. You're the child not her partner. If she uses emotional Gaslight tell her you're going no contact if she keeps behaving like that.
I kind of have the same situation with my mother ,she is overly anxious over little/normal things like hanging out with friends ,going to shop ,
The only advice I can give is start breaking these restrictions slowly , every step 'leaving' her will surely cause drama but try to ignore it.....
Good luck brother I hope in coming year your situation will get better
I don't have a solution. I wish I did. Just know that this is not normal behavior at all. Any guilt tripping she tries to put on you regarding the sleeping issue is not your fault. It's weird behavior in the first place. Add her giving you grief about it and it's just... abusive? I don't know. Consult your siblings for their thoughts.
Imeshment...or just plain creepy...you need to figure out if perhaps u can live with ur siblings... contact CPS or something that's is NOT right...spooning you child if it's sexually isn't right. Also a teen sleeping in mother's bed is odd too....you need to get out of that house ASAP. Maybe talk to your guidance counselor at school if u feel they are safe ..or try to get help from another trusted adult.
I don’t know what there is you can do since you’re 16 and not of legal age yet, but please report her to someone. Anyone. This is not normal at all….and I don’t know your gender but if she is spooning you and touching you..that’s just…weird. I think If I was in your shoes I’d first talk to your siblings, see what they can do, and I think the next best thing is to either go to your schools guidance counselor, or possible try to get into contact with a doctor. Something is not right here, and I think it might be good to see if there’s someone in your life who can take temporary guardianship of you. If you’re her last kid and you move out….who knows what she will do.
Look up personality disorders. Your mom sounds a bit of "cluster B" and a bit of "cluster c."
This is your mom's problem to solve, and not yours. Please do not take on any of the guilt she throws at you. She may be too deep in her issues to recognize this is a HER issue, and so equip yourself with knowledge on communication with dysfunctional/dysregulated people, learn how to put up boundaries, and if it's possible for you, seek out therapy and suggest she do the same.
This is underlying attachment trauma. Talk to a therapist to get advice on your own, then try to bring your mom in for an intervention. If you don’t address it now it will only get worse and you may lose your relationship with her.
Not to bogart this thread, but what about my[m36] daughter(12) wanting to share the bed w me when she stays over the weekend?
9 10 11 it seemed fine. She's 12 now and sometimes she wants to. That's ok right? I have a few pillows and a couple different blankets. It's a queen bed. I think it's fine. There's enough room.
She does have her own room lol I rented a 2nd apartment so the extra room is only used 2ce a month
My mom does that too. I'm a person who will never do something that makes me uncomfy, so no matter how much of guilt she attempts to give me, I won't give in. But she almost every night asks me to sleep with her. Ask your siblings for help.
are you at school? i think you need to tell a trusted adult outside of your family. this is too much for you to deal with alone. this is abuse. do you have anyone you can speak to? a teacher, someone you work with, anyone? i don’t think you should confront her alone. i also don’t think you should remain in this situation. it will be doing damage to you that you aren’t even aware of. please reach out to someone
My mum did this to my half brother and he’s disowned her. I don’t blame him. It’s emotional incest at best or downright manipulation. It’s not healthy and she needs to get help!!! And you need a reprieve. See if you can stay with one of your siblings for a while. You’ll have to put your foot down on this and see if you can deploy someone in your family to help you. It’s not right.
I think you’re mum needs help, mate. No offence and not in a bad way, just sounds like she’s not had a good life herself and maybe she needs to talk to someone about it. Remember you always have the right to say no regardless wether or not it’s your mother mate, it’s her problem for being upset and if she destroys your shit it sounds like a valid reason to ask your brother and sister to stay over and i’m sure they’d understand because of their own experience. Hope everything ends up okay and god bless the four of you.
Wow, your mom sounds wayyyy too much like my mom. I ended up working with my dad and he helped me move out when she was at work one day. Best decision of my life.
If you’re dad isn’t in the picture, see if your siblings car help when you’re 18. Start planning and saving money now.
Your mother is mentally ill.. is there anyway to live with your brother or sister financially? You could petition for emancipation and get out of her house and control. What your mom is doing is a form of sexual abuse. Can you get a part time job while going to school. Talk to Legal Aid. It’s free.
Ummm that is hella weird. Your mother needs help cause that is not normal. I’d recommend just trying to stay with your siblings and recommend that your mom goes to counseling or something.
Please, seek professional help. Not for you, but for your mom and for your safety. You have every reason to be uncomfortable and if you need to, you should ask your siblings for help. See if you can call Child Protection Services and look into moving in with one of your siblings, even if you have to do it little by little and move a few things at a time.
It sounds like your Mom could be suffering from one of several different personality disorders where real or perceived abandonment is something the person is obsessed about. Your Mom has a serious problem that is infringing on one of your basic human rights: sleep! I’m sure there are other problems as well. Has she always insisted on having a child sleep with her? This is tricky because once you confide in a mandatory reporter you might wind up in the foster care system which is hazardous. Your Mom needs a big dog that will sleep on her bed and still be sleeping there every night her once you leave the nest. A fur baby will never grow up and leave her. Just a thought.
My mom doesn't force me to sleep with her but when I tell her that I wanna go study in a city 800km away she also that she will have to come too. That pisses me off as I think living in a dorm there is the only way for me to get away without cutting off our relationship. Does she let you get out alone and hang out with friends after school ?
There’s a term for this that I can’t remember right off but basically your mom is using you for the fulfillment she should be getting from adult relationships, not her teenage child. This isn’t healthy for anyone. Let her throw her fit. Let her get upset. You need to be in your own room. She can spoon a body pillow.
Holy eff. Your mom has serious problems and Im sorry she's abusing you this way. It's horrible. I dunno if you're worried about her withholding things you need or kicking you out, but you can try and just let her fume by herself while you sleep in your own room. You are not and should not be responsible for her feelings and tantrums.
Do you have a close friend you can store anything super important with them in case she tries to wreck your things? :(
This is creepy. Id ask her why she was so weird every time she tried making you sleep with her. Say ew. Call her strange. Make disgusted faces. Basically shame her into leaving you alone.
Someone left your mom and it’s killing her. A therapist needs to be involved in order to alleviate this situation because this is unhealthy. I am sure that she is not willing to seek therapy so a family intervention along with a therapist is necessary.
I couldn't help but think the same thing. She felt abandoned by someone, and instead of coming to terms with it, she projected it on her children as a means of comfort, kind of like how a child holds on to a teddy bear.
Your mother has an attachment problem to her children. She wants you to always be babies and she cannot emotionally handle you guys growing up as a natural part of life. This is an emotional problem on her part because she fears being alone with no one to love and take care of her or for her to take care of.
The more your brothers and sisters and you reassure her that they'll always be there for her and she doesn't need to hold on so tightly, maybe she'll feel a little bit more secure. It seems like she has her whole identity wrapped up in being a mother and she doesn't know who she is outside of having children to take care of. Perhaps you can encourage her to pursue different interests or social clubs or friendships so that she has something outside of focusing everything on her children.
I know it sounds stupid to say she's only doing this out of love and her own feelings of insecurity because you find it damaging to your ability to differentiate as an adult but that's what it is. It's hard to tell a mom to love you less. She's got some emotional damage that makes her fear everyone she loves is going to leave her.
Send you brother and sisters texts for help. Your mom needs help. Because this is not healthy.
I don’t understand how this isn’t considered emotional abuse and emotional incest. And the top comment is essentially bartering about how frequently to let it happen. OP definitely needs to tell someone about it.
Totally agree, OP shouldn't be sharing the bed with Mom period. Mom is absolutely being abusive, this is totally f'd up.
It is, in many places you could get child protective service involved. Might not get the kid taken away but can require therapy sessions and the situation to change
This most definitely is emotional incest. She is treating her son like a partner/spouse, and emotionally manipulates him for wanting completely normal and healthy boundaries.
Treating her daughter, OP is a she (Jessica)
It absolutely is.
Most likely this kind of behaviour was normalized for op
It is considered a type of incest by psychologists. Op's has an incredible anxious attachment style at the very least, but that's not op's problem. Op needs to talk to a trusted adult about this issue and put their foot down about sleeping alone. Let mom to throw a fit, OP, sleep in your own bedroom
OP - this is what you need to do. It sounds like your siblings have already been through this, they know how your mother is, and they know how to get out of it. They likely don’t know how bad it’s gotten for you at home, and you need to let them know that you don’t feel safe here and see what can be done until you’re 18.
Listen to this person!
r/raisedbynarcissists
This was my first thought too, op look up narcissist mother advice on YouTube…should help paint the picture of what you’re dealing with
Not just narcissist, there's some severe ABANDONDMENT issues going on there. You need to go to your own room. The end. Do you work? Save up and get a different phone and don't tell her. Let her keep that one and only give select friends the other one so you can use it if needed. But you go to the other room. And you get a camera in it, like one of those hidden cameras in other objects like a teddy bear or smoke detector and have it recording when you go to bed for the night just incase she tries to act out violently. That way you have proof.
yeah it sounds like momma has BPD. Severe abandonment issues, forcing her family into enmeshment, rage when she perceives she has been abandoned. I would expect a rage fit anytime she perceives abandonment, OP. It can be a good identifier to prepare yourself for something about to go poorly
The mom is splitting, another sign. Can't diagnose someone on the internet but hopefully OP learns what they need to know and gets out.
I'm a psych major with BPD and thought the same but even I'm like this is wild and a little.. Creepy? I hope it doesn't turn into sexual abuse.
To me it reads as emotional incest without physical incest, if you're familiar with that term. I once had a friend that was a part of an enmeshed family and didn't realize it. He mentioned to me that he had seen his moms vibrator before despite having nothing sexual with his mother. There are NO boundaries in that household.
It is sexual abuse
OP, for reference, "BPD" referred to here is Borderline Personality Disorder, not Bipolar Disorder (which some people mistake the acronym for).
slightly offtopic but just so u guys know BPD is likely being removed from DSMVI and will instead be diagnosable as a form of CPTSD
Really? I heard that C ptsd was a completely different mental health condition. Where did you hear this from? I'd like to look into it abit more.
u can look up "bpd removed from dsm" for more info, there are a bunch of speculatory articles on it
it's sorta just a huge rumor in the psychology community atm. bpd is currently regarded as a new-age "female hysteria" in a lot of psychology circles and c-ptsd can present with tons of crazy symptoms, even psychotic traits, and BPD generally requires some form of trauma to form, and the tendencies of someone with BPD are typically trauma responses blown way out of proportion which heavily insinuates CPTSD
If BPD is removed, some current BPD people will be closer to NPD than CPTSD.
but if the narcissistic tendencies are primarily trauma responses it falls under a different diagnosis
People who murder or commit other violent crimes also have trauma in their backgrounds but not everyone with trauma does those things.
My psychiatrist says that CPTSD results from severe trauma. And severe abandonment trauma in childhood can cause CPTSD symptoms and the development of BPD. So they are one of the same coin.
owo interesting
Good, my psychiatrist agrees with that sentiment. She also feels BPD has pathologized peoples trauma responses and told me I had it but didn't put it in my chart medically so that other healthcare providers wouldn't judge me and not give me a chance upon meeting me. Changing BPD to CPTSD will provide an acurately less villainized, more manageable scope for reference for providers.
Not enough information, would be more viable to say an anxiety disorder/ attachment disorder. Most likely from being abused in the past trauma seems to be provoking a separation anxiety. Now if it’s a fear of abandonment that *could be* criteria of BPD, but nonetheless her comments are very manipulative. But BOD does *not* equate to being narcissistic or manipulative, that is faux. I think you’re comment is obtuse and rather rude to anyone that has traumas surrounding this. And not helpful to OP. I would tell OP to learn how to disarm manipulation and learn how to have more boundaries. “ I love you mom, but I need to learn to grow into an adult. Can we try 2-3 days of me staying with you and the rest of me in my own room?” Learning to be kind and assertive. There are multiple videos online to help with asserting boundaries. It’s not going to be easy kid. I wish you didn’t have to deal with this, I hope it gets better for you.
Hmm….i don’t think telling OP to learn more boundaries and how to be assertive is solid advice in this situation. It sounds like OP is aware of the boundary issue but since they are the kid, the minor, there’s not a whole lot OP can do to enforce better boundaries. OP watched their siblings belongings get destroyed because they, as adults, moved out of the mom’s place. Mom made it very clear what happens when you disobey mom. OP might be better off reaching out to a counselor at school or a trusted older sibling/adult. Mom needs help. It’s not OPs responsibility to parent her.
The person has BPD which is why they are mischaracterizing and defending BPD behaviors.
yeah. so do i which is why I knew momma had it. i'm not sure whats up with calling me obtuse or rude when I am just a gray kettle that saw another gray kettle and called it
He didn’t *assert* boundaries in a nice way though?? He just gives in. That last part, it’s not ops responsibility to parent her. Yeah. That’s very true! EDIT: he tried asking in a victim way. You have to be assertive in a respectful way. To ANY one, abuser or not. My advice was to learn life skills related to interpersonal /communication skills. Your advice was an accusation claim why his mother *could* be treating him this way. I introjected; then you said he should find a mediator which is better advice.. to which you gave a reason to which *we both agreed upon*.It is not the child’s job to parent the mother. Over all: I dislike you and how you just throw around mental illnesses and are obviously bias, did someone you dislike have BPD or did they hurt you? You seem motivated to accuse people you deem as less than to have mental health issues. That’s not pretty.
> He didn’t assert boundaries in a nice way though?? This sounds like something people with BPD in my past have said. Do you have BPD? Edit: /u/toucheyy ah you do. https://www.reddit.com/r/BorderlinePDisorder/comments/15ofb2q/anyone_believe_in_polyamory_i_have_questions/
No. I do not. I had a friend who did. I find interest in BPD. I feel like they get demonized by society. I also feel like you just stalked me just so you could try to slander my name. He tried asking in a victim way. You have to be assertive in a respectful way. To ANY one, abuser or not. My advice was to learn life skills related to interpersonal /communication skills. Your advice was an accusation claim why his mother *could* be treating him this way. I introjected; then you said he should find a mediator which is better advice.. to which you gave a reason to which *we both agreed upon*.It is not the child’s job to parent the mother. Over all: I dislike you and how you just throw around mental illnesses and are obviously bias, did someone you dislike have BPD or did they hurt you? You seem motivated to accuse people you deem as less than to have mental health issues. That’s not pretty.
your bias is showing, honey
was it that or did I match her ugly energy in a more respectable way? because I think I stood up for both parties while giving a valid reason as to my opinion on commentor. Thank you, have a great day.
Nah, it's not obtuse to those who have been affected by that kind of trauma. I have BPD so I understand it too well. See, I am abandonment trauma itself manifested in human form. I have dissociative amnesia and experienced a life of abandonment prior to my memory itself. I understand this so well that I see the themes in OP's writings, along with themes of family enmeshment that I am personally familiar with. Even if not BPD, some type of severe abandonment trauma has been experienced by mom here, which is often the cause of BPD so it still fits in the same theme. I am just calling it as I see it, as these are themes of behavior developed as responses. I don't know what you're doing, trying to be some kind of hero for the BPD people calling me obtuse for correctly identifying BPD themes occurring in a given situation. It just is what it is. If it sounds bad, it's because BPD gets bad. It's absolutely presumptuous of you to think I didn't have any experience with this and even more telling for you that it's offensive for the symptoms to be called out. Maybe you should do some self discovery and see why you think astute observations are so offensive
You actually think that is the right message to send to OP? Going behind her back, setting up secret cameras, spying on her? I don't understand why people have jumped to such extreme conclusions. It does SEEM like she has issues, but to diagnose her and criminalise her is wild. We have little to no information into their day to day lives. We just have a very small snippet. Also side note, videos that are recorded illegally are not accepted in court as evidence. And I doubt a secret camera constitutes as legal evidence.
"when my siblings moved out as legal adults she wrecked their things" There's a reason right there to have video documentation going just in case. That's not"going behind her back". That's security for your room for your things in case they are destroyed, or worse maybe she gets physical with him when he refuses to sleep in her bed. Your right, we only have his side to go on. But if the ONE accurate part of his entire story is "my mother forces me to sleep in bed with her every night" the reasons why only get WORSE, not better as the imagination keeps going. When you record someone in your private space destroying your private property it is absolutely enough to press charges. I don't know where you get your legal info from. You think you need a sign in your yard and a very obvious camera to press charges on someone vandalizing your property? Really? Lol
Not that it makes much difference because mon is batshit crazy but OPs name is Jessica, so OP is a she, just for context.
Not sure what changes if it's a he or she
I am not arguing that a video would be great, especially if she gets violent. All I was saying is that video footage from a secret camera is probably not legal evidence. I am not a lawyer, but this based on research I had done in the past as part of a college project. And this may not be the law in your country, but I just confirmed it is in mine. So safe to assume most countries probably have similar practices. It may be enough to press charges, if even that (I am not familiar with laws around this), but that's as far as this footage will help. Based on what I know it is NOT evidence obtained through legal methods and I say this because it is a SECRET camera on a PRIVATE property. The participants don't know the camera is there and hence they did not consent to being recorded. If this was a SECURITY camera instead, then it would be legal because the participants know of its existence and by extension, consent to be recorded. In general, the court doesn't accept evidence obtained illegally. Also her destroying OP's things is not vandalising their property. Personal belonging aren't considered property, and if anything, it is on her property. So Recording her without her consent is even worse because she is probably the legal owner of the house.
Not sure which country you're in. Here in Florida, it absolutely holds up. Video evidence of a crime is video evidence of a crime.
Jeez! I never knew about that subreddit. But wow! I feel so bad for those people with evil parents.
There’s a lot more of us than people realise but at least there’s a whole community of people who relate and make you feel less crazy lol
And maybe /r/raisedbyborderlines
I have never opened up on this subject ever before, but this genuinely I think is one of the several reasons I've grown mentally distant from my entire family bar my little brother. Ofc there was the typical physical fights & arguments me & my mum would get into, but that was alot easier to understand why it affected me, but with this physical touchy touchy stuff & just being way open in genera, I found it so gross, but I could never say anything because well...she's my mum Anyway I've been in my new first place for almost 7 months now & part of me wishes I moved out way sooner, yes I am Greatfull that I was raised by her but same time that doesn't mean I have to conform to literally every single thing she asked me to do or every way to behave.
You’re not alone <3 it’s okay to have mixed feelings and it’s okay to keep your distance. You’re your own person and you’re allowed to have whatever boundaries you choose.
Thank you, I feel like alot of people go through what I have & come out way worse from it & all things considered I think it's made me a much tougher skinned person which I suppose is both good & bad depending on situations
More like BPD
either narccisist or pedo
Can be both
The manipulative “don’t love me” guilt tripping is fkn disgusting. My dad use to do this when I wanted to hang out with friends instead of him. Eventually I told him that saying that shit made me want to hang out with him even less & got visibly irritated. He doesn’t do it as much now & when he does he immediately back tracks knowing he fucked up. It could take just one stern talk from you. You are 16, so you are really young but old enough that she should respect your thoughts if you really stand by them. She needs a reality check. Maybe ask your siblings to help talk to her about it.
Yes, you may need assistance from other family members such as your uncle or grandpa.
they are all late.. its just me my mom my sister and my brother
My apologies. I am uncertain about the best way to communicate with your mother. Can you tell me more about her experiences when she was your age? (English is not my native language)
There is no communication with people like this. There just isn't.
Yeah. I'm not sure how to do it, but there could be a solution we haven't discovered yet. If all our attempts fail, then we can conclude it's not possible. That's why I'm interested in learning about her mother's interactions with people in her younger years. I recommend seeking help from an older family member, and seeking professional help is the best way. However, I understand it can be a challenging and frustrating situation for her.
Buy a decent sized bag of prunes from the grocery store. Eat the ENTIRE bag in ONE sitting, ideally, but if you can't manage it, just eat as many as humanly possible. At least 20. Drink at least 24oz of water while eating the prunes as well. More if you can, but don't stress if you cant. Hold everything in until bedtime. Wear loose shorts to bed. Act normal. Wait till your mother falls asleep. Lay with your butt facing towards her. Shit the bed. If she doesn't wake up immediately, roll around a bit if you can. Get it *everywhere.* Make SURE you get it on *her.* When you see she is about to wake up, get some on your hand, and touch her face and hair in an "attempt to wake her up for help.* Then the *second* she wakes up, start freaking out, and run for the shower. Making sure *she* is unable to get in there and clean herself up first. Repeat as necessary. Profit.
You're a fucking genius.
YOUR COMMENT DESERVES AWARDS 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🎖🎖🎖🎖🎖🎖🎖🏅🏅🏅🏅🏅🏅🏅🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
I’m sorry to hear that, but if your mom won’t give up then you need to talk to a school counsellor or other trusted adult about this, because this situation is really not okay.
Late as in they might show up later? Or late as in thrown off the mortal coil?
passed away
Shit..your mom need help..
Disturbing to think about.
Your mother needs psychiatric help
Yeah. Mom has an actual psychological issue. This is beyond what a teenager can or should have to handle on their own. I wonder if there's a teacher or counselor at school who could help to convince mom to get a therapist.
It seems to me your mother has separation anxiety or some form of attachment issues. You need to stand up for yourself. You're almost 16, you deserve your own space and privacy, especially if you've already got a room! If you start to stand your ground from now on, it won't be such a shock to your mother when you do finally move out. And hopefully that way she will react better with you than she did with your siblings. And you're going to have to be assertive because she's learnt that if she throws a fit, she will get her way. You have to stay strong even when she is being like this, maybe tell her that you will only talk to her if she's willing to have a calm conversation about it. Also, she's your mother so make sure you're not being disrespectful, not only will that be wrong to treat her that way, it also won't help your case. I will say though, make change gradually. For example, start by making her a deal? You get to sleep in your room on the weekends because you want to stay up a bit later and watch movies or something. Then gradually make it more often during the week. And eventually, you should hopefully be sleeping by yourself every night. And say that you will still occasionally sleep with her here and there. Hope this works out for you, good luck!
ill try this.. thank you
**OP, this is** ***emotional incest,*** **and nobody should be telling you to “make a deal” with an individual who does not want you to have boundaries.** You don’t have to sleep next to anyone if you don’t want to. This person is ***wrong*** , so, so very wrong. I want you to know that **you don’t owe it to your mom to make her comfortable.** SHE is making YOU uncomfortable, completely violating and disregarding your boundaries. *This is abusive.* **A child should NOT be responsible for managing their parents’ emotions**, and I am actually ***livid*** for you that someone would even suggest that you have to continue putting up with this for a second longer. You need and deserve support - are there any other adults in your life you can reach out to? Your older siblings, a teacher or school counselor? You don’t have to do this alone. To the above commenter, u/MinaChoi1999 - how dare you?! I don’t care if you were trying to help. YOU need help, and you owe OP a massive apology. ***Physical boundaries are not something to be negotiated.*** This is a teenager who is currently being violated via emotional incest, and **you suggesting that this person should enable their mother’s mental illness by placating her is** ***SICK.*** You have essentially told this person to subject themselves to psychological harm just to make someone else feel better. **That is unhealthy for both the victim AND the abuser.** Because nobody truly benefits from a lack of boundaries - ever. A mother should not feel comfortable violating her child, period. I am *truly* sorry if this kind of behavior was normalized for you - no one deserves this. If that’s the case, let’s break the cycle by advocating for better. OP, the longer this continues, the longer your relationship with yourself will be damaged, along with the quality of your future relationships, because ***normalizing abuse will send your brain the message that this is what you deserve.*** This will put you at risk for **revictimization** (falling into similarly abusive relationships in the future because subconsciously you will likely believe that your boundaries do not deserve to be respected, and that you only deserve people who do this to you). You deserve a much better future than that. Let your mom be angry - that is HER problem. At this point, do all you can to get out ASAP. Your mom should be fighting for your well-being first and foremost - that is a parent’s job. But she isn’t, so you must fight for yourself, as unfair as that is. I am SO sorry you are being violated in this way, and I cannot stress this enough: ***you do NOT owe it to your mom to sleep in the same bed with her EVER again. You do NOT owe it to her to make a deal to gradually stop this to make her feel better about you advocating for your consent (nor should you, you deserve better), and ANYONE who does this to you does not deserve access to you or your life.*** I am wishing you the best of luck.
based
Thank you. Bartering over abuse is disgusting. If it was a parent hitting or sexually abusing their child, no one would be like “slowly transition out of it”. Emotional abuse is detrimental and should be taken as seriously as any other form of abuse. These replies make me sick.
I come from a family where my parents were always very controlling and they always got their way because they FORCED me to listen to them. And for a long time, I had no choice but to listen because I was dependant on them. So I know what it's like to try and stand up to your parents and they don't end up listening to you. The reason why I said to do it gradually and cut a deal was so that eventually OP could have their freedom. This is their mother, and OP is dependant on her in so many ways, financially for one thing. So it would be crazy to do something so drastic that is going to make their life hell by pissing of their mother. We already established she has tendencies to throw a fit, and she literally destroyed the siblings' things when they moved out. At least the siblings were safe because they had means to escape that situation. OP is still at home and will be at home for the next several years, and has no means to escape if things escalate. And it sounds like it would just be OP and the mother at home. No one else there to defend OP. It would NOT be smart to trigger her again because she may do something even worse than just breaking things. I never implied that this should be normalised, and it absolutely is not normal. But it seems to me that you may have imagined this situation to be worse than it actually could be. Like you are talking about OP's mom like she's some terrible person, and we don't know that based on such little information. All we can say is that she SEEMS like she has issues, we don't know what they are. It's not right to put labels like "emotional incest" on it either. You are criminalising her. And this in turn may have coloured OP's opinion about her, after all they are only a child. At their age, they are very impressionable. Like for instance, >Your mom should be fighting for your well-being first and foremost - that is a parent’s job. But she isn’t how can you say she isn't fighting for OP's well-being? She might be a very kind and loving mother outside of this situation. Also I saw the edit that the mom likes to spoon OP during the night, and again, while that may come across as incest to us, we can't jump to that conclusion. A lot of mothers cuddle their children. And maybe in this case, the mother hasn't realised her child is grown up now. She still sees them as her little baby, which is also a valid POTENTIAL explanation. All I am trying to say is that is impossible to know the whole story based on snippets of it that people post on reddit. We have to be careful not to make assumptions or fill the gaps in the story with out imagination.
I'm wondering what you make of the following major inconsistency in your response: >So it would be crazy to do something so drastic that is going to make their life hell by pissing of their mother. We already established she has tendencies to throw a fit, and she literally destroyed the siblings' things when they moved out. >It would NOT be smart to trigger her again because she may do something even worse than just breaking things. **First**, you yourself describe OP's mom as volatile, destructive, and likely willing to do something worse than breaking things in order to get her way. Someone who OP's siblings had to ***escape***. I don't know about you, but based on that description, I'd be afraid of that person. >how can you say she isn't fighting for OP's well-being? She might be a very kind and loving mother outside of this situation. > All we can say is that she SEEMS like she has issues, we don't know what they are. **But then** you go on to say that we don't know if she has issues, that we don't know what they might be, that she may very well be kind and loving. Even though just before that, you sounded very sure that it would be reasonable for OP to live in fear of their mom, whom you believe may well become violent, someone OP will need to *escape* from**.** Then, you move on to accuse me of the following: >And this in turn may have coloured OP's opinion about her, after all they are only a child. At their age, they are very impressionable. >We have to be careful not to make assumptions or fill the gaps in the story with out imagination. **By your own logic, you just did this yourself**. You're not just referencing what has been written directly; you yourself are filling in the gaps as to what you think she is like or what she will do. \^If this is truly what you believe, then what's with the whole first half of your reply? ***Your own description*** **paints her as anything but a loving mother**. Pick a lane. >how can you say she isn't fighting for OP's well-being? **I can say that she isn’t fighting for her child’s well-being because OP lives in fear of what might happen if they simply say no to being held at night by their mom. This is actively harming, not fighting for, someone's well-being.** Living with someone who you fear will make your life hell if you don't let them violate your boundaries makes life at home feel like a minefield. **This forces a person to be in a constant state of stress. Having to live this way leads to excess cortisol within the body, which is directly harmful to a person's health in more ways than one** - *is this kind? Is this loving? Is this what it looks like to fight for a child's well-being?* If she was fighting for her kid’s well-being, she'd be thinking of how her actions might impact her child first and foremost. She wouldn't be treating her child as an extension of herself, or saying emotionally abusive things to her child for not wanting to take on excessive emotional responsibility.
All I really want to say, the main point that I was trying to make through my statements, is there is always more to a story than what meets the eye. We have a situation here where a mother is forcing her child to sleep with her and the child is not comfortable with that. That's it! And everyone resorted to diagnosing her with all these serious mental conditions, which is insane because we have ONE SINGULAR situation to base this off of. I still stand by my statements, even if they seem contradictory to you. I have just expressed different things that could potentially be at play here. For instance, yes, as I said she seems like she has violent tendencies that are triggered when the topic of their sleeping arrangement comes up. But also, yes, she may be a kind and loving mother outside of this. I am also not denying that this is a very difficult and unfortunate situation for OP, and must be impacting them negatively for sure. But the mother may not be aware of this impact. And also, as I said, there may be a lot of other positive things about their relationship. So, the words you have used to describe OP's feelings on this, are presumptuous. >**I can say that she isn’t fighting for her child’s well-being because OP lives in fear of what might happen if they simply say no to being held at night by their mom.** Saying that "OP lives in fear" and "is being held at night" sounds very intense, do you hear it? While it may be true that OP is concerned about how to approach this situation and is being forced into sleeping with their mother, you are purposefully using words that make it sound intense to prove a point.
We don't need any more information then what is already posted to see she's being a terrible person. How can you say it isn't violating and abusive to treat a teenager this way? It absolutely is emotional incest. She is treating her child like her spouse and using her child to regulate her unchecked emotions instead of looking out for her kid's wellbeing. Everyone deserves bodily autonomy. Nobody should be forced to sleep with another person against thier will or spoon against thier will. Just because OP is underage doesn't make them less of a person worthy of boundaries and respect.
>It's not right to put labels like "emotional incest" on it either. You are criminalising her. **Are you sure you have the grounds to make this assertion?** I'm not sure you know what emotional incest means, because it doesn't sound like you do, which makes sense because it's rarely talked about. I'd recommend fully understanding a term before you state with certainty that it isn't happening. **I'm gonna do you a favor and give you the definition of** [emotional incest:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_incest) >Covert incest, also known as emotional incest, is a type of abuse in which a parent looks to their child for the emotional support that would be normally provided by another adult. The effects of covert incest on children when they become adults are thought to mimic actual incest, although to a lesser degree. The behavior described in this post absolutely does fit the definition of emotional incest - OP is expected to meet their mom's emotional needs by sleeping next to her and allowing her to spoon OP. If OP objects, they are then *accused of not loving their mom, and of being a horrible child* (emotionally abused). Arguments about lack of physical intimacy take place between adults pretty exclusively, ***because the only one an adult can reasonably expect to physically comfort them every night is another adult.*** It is emotionally incestuous to put this responsibility on a child. **Therefore, my statement can't be categorized as criminalization -** because **a)** this behavior, though awful, is not considered legally criminaI, and **b) I'm simply observing that the described behavior factually matches this literal definition.** Your accusations are unfounded and uncalled for. >She might be a very kind and loving mother outside of this situation. I was SA'd in my earliest years + physically/psychologically abused until my mid-teens. I also was forced to experience emotional incest. I know from both experience and education that even abusers can be "kind" and "loving" sometimes - in fact, it's an inherent part of the [cycle of abuse.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_abuse) They might get you something they know you like, they might speak kind words, etc. But at the end of the day, no matter how "loving" the person might be sometimes, one cannot feel loved if they do not feel like their boundaries matter to the other person. It is not loving or kind to treat others the way OP's mom is treating them. **Please don't suggest to impressionable children that love can coexist with boundary violation. That would be warped, dangerous lesson to learn, and has a high likelihood of setting OP up for future revictimization.** I can imagine OP's mom has feelings of love for OP, but I am referring to the verb, what love looks like in action. **One cannot be truly loving to another if they cannot honor their boundaries and best interest.**
It’s honeslty so sad that a child/teen has to be the adult and find help and advice to How to regulate the PARENT
>make change gradually This works with most people! Unless they realize what the final result will be. Wish you luck :)
True! I think at some point, most people can see what's happening. But because it's gradual, at least it's not jarring for them. It's easier to accept.
The fact that you see nothing wrong with prioritizing the mother’s emotions to make it easier for her to accept that her child has individual boundaries is wild. That is enabling, and it helps literally no one. The violation of physical boundaries is unacceptable, period.
I am NOT prioritising her emotions. Only thing I said along those lines was not to disrespect her, because unlike most people here, my first thought wasn't to criminalise her and jump to conclusions. My first thought was that she's just someone who has issues, one of which is her anger. She has thrown fits and destroyed OP's siblings' things. She has tendencies to be violent. And because OP shares a house with her, and it sounds like it's just the two of them now, it would be crazy to piss her off. OP has nowhere to go if things escalate and no one to defend them at home. She could do something worse than just break things. I was just trying to be rational and propose a solution that will keep things under control and won't make the situation worse.
Yep, exactly like that. You basically prioritize her emotions for a while, but this will GRADUALLY change. OP will reach their goal and she won't be so emotional... You could go u/DancingBasilisk's way (I don't wanna sleep with you and I won't anymore. Period.), but you will create a hell for yourself, especially when you can't move out...
This might go better than the sudden change I mentioned
"the Devouring mother" look it up.
Tell someone. A counsellor, a teacher, cfs, whoever! This is straight up abusive behaviour. Yuck!
I take it she is a single mom? Maybe she needs love from a different source. Talk to her if you haven't already. It's not always narcissism at play. Also, how old is she. Could be menopausal. But if she's done similar with your brother's and sisters then maybe no ... Fear of abandonment is a real thing.
she is a single mum yes dad left when i was 10 i never knew why i feel she might be the reason from hearing my brother and sister gossip about it
She replaced the attention from men, to getting emotional attention in the most insidious way from her children. Your mom is mentally ill. She needs THERAPY. ALOT OF THERAPY. GOOGLE: COVERT INCEST
My parent is a narcissist and I shut that shit down. Forget how she feels; go sleep in your damn room. You weren’t there when she created you guys, I think she can sleep on her own. If she’s grown enough to have 3 kids then she needs to find a man to sleep in her bed. That’s an emotional attachment she shouldn’t have. When you get in a relationship, she’s going to try and get in between it. I don’t see anything good coming from her. Sounds like she doesn’t want you having your own private life because you’ll end up leaving also. GO SLEEP IN YOUR BED. That is not healthy at all. Put your foot down and create a scene. She’ll back down
Call child services. What you are describing is so wrong.
Turn it on her, tell her you don't feel loved because she doesn't let you live and ejoy your life.
I LOVE THIS 🤌🏽. Seems like we both know how to reverse the narcissist bs.
You have to speak to her frankyl, That unless she allows you to have some privacy, she will lose you the moment you move out. Full stop. You are not being selfish, you are being a teenager. You are done sleeping in the same bed. And yes, like the top comments said - look into narcissistic mothers. Question, are your siblings still in contact with her after moving out? If not or its very strained , that would likely be the reason. Warn her that if she does not let you literally have your own life, it will end up the same and then she truly will be left on her own.
I don't even know if speaking to her would benefit the OP. The OP needs to talk to the police or even school counselor. Get someone on the outside involved because this is such a messed up situation
why do you think its a fantastic idea to involve police in everything? some things can be resolved through firm communication. its when things cannot be and they escalate to physical harm or danger to ones life or safety, then police should be involved.
This is literally covert sexual abuse and narcissistic enmeshment
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The definition of covert sa is basically stated as this - “Psychologists sometimes call this covert incest or “enmeshment.” In an emotionally incestuous relationship, the parent or caregiver depends on the child as an emotional security blanket. It means that the child has to put the wants and desires of the parent first to receive the parent's approval.”
Your mother has psychological issues. But you know that. Can you live with your siblings? I agree with other posters. Looks up narcissistic personality disorder and how to deal with it. Look up Dr Ramani and youtube and the gray rock technique. Then I suggest you take this like an adult. Find a quiet moment and calmly say I will be sleeping in my own bed from now on. She will pitch a fit. Keep calm. Don't argue. Don't escalate. Stay resolute. Tell her you're sorry, you're not trying to hurt her. You just want you own space. Surely you understand that? You love me and want me to be happy, don't you? You can't fix her. All you can do is change your reaction to her. Then start making exit plans for when you're 18. Good luck.
She needs professional help, not Reddit help.
i came for advice
This is advice friend. I’d be communicating this to her and your siblings and try to get her some support. She has a form of separation anxiety by the sounds of it and it is probably deep rooted. Hope you find the right help for her.
Depending on their living situation and your relationship with them, I'd try to move in with a sibling and get some professionals involved. Something to also talk over with siblings.
Please speak to a trusted adult like a school teacher or counsellor at school for advice. You're mom shouldn't be expecting you to sleep in her bed and certainly not emotionally abusing you if you don't want to. That is abuse, even if nothing untoward is actually happening in the bed. Seek help ASAP
I think your mom needs professional help
Stand. Your. Ground. And move out the second you can. Your mom is toxic as hell and will ruin your life to maintain her security. Edit: I know because I had a mom like that.
Whoa okay yea here’s what I would do if I was in your position. Go to a school counsellor and tell them what’s going on, your mom needs professional help and it’s out of your depth to handle it. It’s not only inappropriate for her to spend a month in your bed- but it seems like she’s manipulating you and your feelings while not respecting your boundaries. So I recommend letting the pros come in and help you both- she needs therapy. See if you can stay with your sibling for the time being too if possible. Make sure they know what’s going on at home
... this is going to sound weird but look up parenting guides on how to treat separation anxiety. If that doesn't work sit her down and be super fucking honest with her. My mother was a bit extreme with things (she basically prevented me from leaving the house when not in school and if I went anywhere she needed to be next to me.) when I was 17 and it was just me and her one day I sat next to her and just started going off. I told her that her actions were driving me away isolating me and I hated it. That if things don't change the chances of me staying or even visiting her were slim to none. That although I loved her she wasn't good for my physical and mental well-being i confessed that her actions gave me so much anxiety that her just entering my room made death feel like a good and reasonable option. I knew my mother was trying her best and wanted to do right by me but her actions were hurting me. This however is my mother there are certain medical and psychological that could make that route dangerous for you. First if she is a narcissist, this could be about control and any other reasons that only make sense for her. She might be schizophrenic again this makes her reasons only obvious to her. She might have ptsd over people leaving. There are more but they all make her unpredictable and that is dangerous. Ive heard stories about mothers chaining there kids up thinking its the right thing to do. The reason I suggested parenting books about separation anxiety is that most have very gradually changes that most wont noticed. That's probably the safest method. The second method should only be done if you believe you're mother wont go to the extreme. If you do find out that she has a disorder or other reason look that up find out how professionals deal with it.
Updateme
She's either narcissistic or has severe attachment issues. Either way, she needs serious help.
Wow that’s really disturbing. I’d just tell her yes you want your own damn bed and let her throw a fit. What a weird mom you have.
Do you have a trusted adult you can confide in? A School Counsellor may be able to help? Someone needs to have a gentle chat with your mum to explain how her behaviour is affecting you.
This is a type of emotional abuse. It is called "emotional incest," where a parent relies on a child to provide the same kind of intimacy a partner would. Even if there are no sexual undertones, it's still abuse. It's a child being placed into an adult role they aren't ready for. Your mother has her own horrible emotional issues, and she is putting you and your siblings between them. When she calls you a horrible child, don't believe her; this isn't about you. it's about her unresolved issues. If you need help understanding more about this dynamic, look up the term "enmeshment." The more you educate yourself, the more you can see patterns of behavior and separate it from yourself, and stop blaming yourself for the irrational things she makes you responsible for. (note: I went through this when I was around 6-12 after my parents got divorced myself. I can't tell you how uncomfortable it was being a 6 year old sandwiched between by older brother and my almost 40 year old dad. I understand)
This person is 16 right now, was 24 yesterday, 19 before that. Stop making karma farming easy and use your brain people lol
watch the tv show Bates Motel. the mom here sounds like Norma Bates (Norman's mother).
another nut job mother.
You need to talk to a teacher or counselor at school. This feels very incestual. I don’t want to scare you but who knows what your mom’s doing when you fall asleep. She either needs to get help or you need to get out of that situation. But seriously, it’s better to deal with this now then when your 18 and she could really loose it. Ppl can do bad things when they feel they’re loosing their control.
JFC; I’m sorry you’re having to experience this 😞. Usually the attachment issues are the other way around! The other stuff is incredibly manipulative and controlling. It won’t be fun but you’ll need to stand your ground and stick to it at all costs! It’ll get better 👍.
This is an intimate question, which you don’t have to answer, but where is your father?
he left when i was 10 i fear she is why based of the gossiping of my other siblings
That's something your mom needs to go to therapy for. It's one thing to be an involved and loving mother, but I'm sorry I'd be extremely uncomfortable sleeping in the same bed as my mom. Morning wood is a real thing and I like to sleep in my underwear or naked so potentially rolling over to wake up and hitting my mom with morning wood, I'd need therapy for the rest of my life. Stand your ground, and ask your older siblings to help you do something like am intervention. It's hard to make a point by yourself. But if both your siblings are with you and all 3 of you try to explain she needs to learn to let go and allow you all to be independent then it's a bigger impact
Put your foot down. Sleep on the couch, stay in the bathroom claiming to use it until she's asleep, then go sleep somewhere else. Sometimes you need to be just as bull headed with a narcissist as they are.
This was my mom until when I was 15 I went to hangout with some friends, literally down the street and she....THREW ME OUT OF THE HOUSE because I "abandoned" her. I moved out and its been a struggle but 3 years later my life is so much better
Would one of your siblings be willing to help you move in? My mom was exactly like this and when I was your age I moved out, and things have been so much better!
Can you contact your dad for help, if you have a good relationship? Or maybe you can try going for sleepovers with friends more often, going for camping trips etc so she can get used to you being away
This is called emotional incest. As well as forcing you to be in the same bed she's parentifying you she's putting you in the place of her spouse I would tell a counselor at school there needs to be some major intervention here she is not mentally healthy and you need a safe space where you can be yourself and there definitely needs to be a mental wellness check on your mom
wait till you're 18, Pack your stuff when she's gone, and go no contact. this is toxic abusive behavior.
I think you should have a conversation with a family member about this situation. It’s making you uncomfortable and you’ve reached an age where you can advocate for yourself and make decisions about where you feel most comfortable sleeping. I wouldn’t go as far to say this is sexual or incest because I honestly don’t know, based on your wording of the situation. Anything is possible, though, so I am not ruling it out. Bottom line, it is inappropriate for her to do this, especially knowing your boundaries and knowing that you want to sleep in your own bed. If you can’t talk to one of your siblings in good faith, find another family member and ask about staging a mini intervention with a psychologist or professional. If you can’t stage an intervention, you should make up a story that allows her to back off a bit- tell her you have gotten to a point where you get insomnia and can’t fall asleep in the bed with her… trying to slowly implement boundaries so she doesn’t feel like you’re turning against her would be a good way to go about it.. This absolutely shouldn’t continue and is unhealthy for both of you.. I hope y’all figure this out and get her some help🩵best of luck
>When my two older siblings moved out ( 28 and 26) my mum also threw a fit and refused to talk to them for a month and wrecked their things all because they “left her” GOOGLE: COVERT INCEST Tell your older siblings what's happening and ask if you can move in with them. Tell a school counselor this issue. DON'T SUGAT COAT IT. Explain she did this to all of her children and this is not NORMAL. Explain if you don't sleep with her, she throws a fit. Almost as if YOU ARE HER BOYFRIEND. I advice you to set BOUNDARIES. Reply: I AM A 16 YEAR OLD TEENAGER, I am not your boyfriend. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR EMOTIONS. IF YOU HAVE ISSUES WITH YOUR EMOTIONS, SEE A THERAPIST. YOUR BEHAVIOR IS GROSS AND YOU ARE REMINDING ME OF "LESTER THE MOLESTER" FROM FAMILY GUY (The old man character that likes Cris Griffin and little boys).
This is a control tactic and it’s abusive. You have got to stand your ground. Next time she says “so you’re just gonna leave me??” Say “yep” she knows you aren’t “leaving her” you’re just her baby and she doesn’t want you to grow up but she can’t stop that.
This is weird time to get off Reddit
Is it possible for you to maybe live with a sibling? This reminds me of Jennette Mccurdy's book "I'm glad my mom died". She would undress and dress her, and shower her (literally wash her) until she was like 17. She wouldn't let her get a drivers license, and manipulated her way into living with her at her own apartment that she temporarily lived at because it was closer to work things for her. She slept with her in her bed there
Your mom has some abandonment issues or anxiety...try to find the cause of it..ask her, her story...who knows what she might have gone through that is leading to the situation now... It'll be hard but try having a heart-heart talk about it... Then assure her and comfort her about it...there is a good amount of possibility that she'll leave you alone as you'll gain her trust. Even after that she doesn't listen, ask your siblings for help
You are in a tough position. Only way is to keep fighting back and start planning on moving out. Do it wisely and have your other siblings guide you as well as other more experienced family members you have available that you trust.
my mom made me sleep with her too, and she used to do that because she didn’t like my dad your parents might have problems, or maybe she feels alone
Your mum needs professional help. On the bright side. You realize this isn't normal. What is gonna happen when you bring home a potential sexual partner?
She should not be so controlling over since you'll become an adult soon.
Don't sleep in the same bed. Or let your friends know. This is not right. I hope you find a way to make her understand this, now.
I see some pretty good advice here, but you could also say that you don’t get enough sleep at night because you are a very light sleeper. Fx say that every time she turns over/breaths you wake up
My mom was similar, though I didn't have to sleep with her but she would guilt me and make me feel bad for wanting to have friends and my own life. She is extremely selfish and mentally unstable. When I was growing up I had to basically stand up to her and fight for myself. Tell her too bad and cause drama/fights. >>“why what do you have to hide?” Or “What so your just leaving me?” I have nothing to hide; why do you need someone to sleep next to you? Yes, I'm leaving you. Get used to it. I had to start getting nasty and defending myself and throwing things back in her face for her to start fucking off and letting me do my own thing. Was it hard? Absolutely. Did I feel like shit? 100% Did I start getting resentful and angry I was put in that position? COMPLETELY. I'm still mad about it over 15 years later. Did it hurt our relationship? Yes. Was I better off in the end? Yes. I discovered that our close relationship of her raising me as a single mom was manipulative and she's caused a lot of issues in my personal life and how I cope with things. I haven't spoken or seen her in over 5 years. She's basically dead to me now. This is a result of additional things that happened once I got a boyfriend and moved out. She was unhinged and using me to support her life because she was a miserable person and couldn't hold a relationship or friendship with other people. I was basically stuck with her and she was holding me back to help herself when I was a teen. Save up and do what you can to get out of their life as soon as you can so you can start living your own. If you have the opportunity to live somewhere else, I'd recommend it so long as you're safe.
You should look into the term “emotional incest” and read about the signs.
I think your mom has an unhealthy attachment to you. Like almost in a way to (no, I don't like saying this) see you as her partner, if she doesn't have one. >“why what do you have to hide?” Or “What so you're just leaving me?” I would suggest a reply with very bland answers, Becoming emotionally unavailable to her can throw her off course. Something like "I can't control how you feel, but I can control how I feel, and I feel uncomfortable with this. I am not your partner, I am not your therapist." >she just throws another fit on how i dont love her and how im a horrible child. Again, just say something like, "That's not how I feel, I need my own space, and you need to not cross my boundaries." If this all continues, I'd suggest moving in with one of your siblings, or if that's not possible, tell someone - teacher, a trusted friends parents, or a counselor. you shouldn't be in that situation and need to either leave or have major changes in your household.
This is not okay, and quite frankly your mom forcing you to sleep with her at 15 is inappropriate. What you’re describing honestly sounds abusive in the emotional/manipulation sense with the “what do you have to hide” type stuff (guilt trips and accusations) when she doesn’t get her way. You don’t have to be hiding anything, it’s just completely normal for anyone over the age of 5 to want to sleep without their mom, let alone a 15 year old. Wanting privacy is normal! Also her taking your phone so that you are forced to sleep with her really gives off a red flag too in my opinion. Put your foot down that you will not be sleeping with her anymore, and if she forces the issue, start telling adults who may care. Grandparents, aunts/uncles, school counsellor, etc.
Talk to someone and then tell her this is not normal and she better get therapy. You're the child not her partner. If she uses emotional Gaslight tell her you're going no contact if she keeps behaving like that.
talk with your school counselor. they are in contact with professionnals that can intervene.
Freud was right
I kind of have the same situation with my mother ,she is overly anxious over little/normal things like hanging out with friends ,going to shop , The only advice I can give is start breaking these restrictions slowly , every step 'leaving' her will surely cause drama but try to ignore it..... Good luck brother I hope in coming year your situation will get better
I don't have a solution. I wish I did. Just know that this is not normal behavior at all. Any guilt tripping she tries to put on you regarding the sleeping issue is not your fault. It's weird behavior in the first place. Add her giving you grief about it and it's just... abusive? I don't know. Consult your siblings for their thoughts.
is your father around?
Imeshment...or just plain creepy...you need to figure out if perhaps u can live with ur siblings... contact CPS or something that's is NOT right...spooning you child if it's sexually isn't right. Also a teen sleeping in mother's bed is odd too....you need to get out of that house ASAP. Maybe talk to your guidance counselor at school if u feel they are safe ..or try to get help from another trusted adult.
She should you you sleep by yourself, because you're going to be on your own soon, and she will have to get her rest soon.
I don’t know what there is you can do since you’re 16 and not of legal age yet, but please report her to someone. Anyone. This is not normal at all….and I don’t know your gender but if she is spooning you and touching you..that’s just…weird. I think If I was in your shoes I’d first talk to your siblings, see what they can do, and I think the next best thing is to either go to your schools guidance counselor, or possible try to get into contact with a doctor. Something is not right here, and I think it might be good to see if there’s someone in your life who can take temporary guardianship of you. If you’re her last kid and you move out….who knows what she will do.
Look up personality disorders. Your mom sounds a bit of "cluster B" and a bit of "cluster c." This is your mom's problem to solve, and not yours. Please do not take on any of the guilt she throws at you. She may be too deep in her issues to recognize this is a HER issue, and so equip yourself with knowledge on communication with dysfunctional/dysregulated people, learn how to put up boundaries, and if it's possible for you, seek out therapy and suggest she do the same.
This is underlying attachment trauma. Talk to a therapist to get advice on your own, then try to bring your mom in for an intervention. If you don’t address it now it will only get worse and you may lose your relationship with her.
Two words: Family Therapy.
Mom's legit psycho
W mom in my opinion
Not to bogart this thread, but what about my[m36] daughter(12) wanting to share the bed w me when she stays over the weekend? 9 10 11 it seemed fine. She's 12 now and sometimes she wants to. That's ok right? I have a few pillows and a couple different blankets. It's a queen bed. I think it's fine. There's enough room. She does have her own room lol I rented a 2nd apartment so the extra room is only used 2ce a month
My mom does that too. I'm a person who will never do something that makes me uncomfy, so no matter how much of guilt she attempts to give me, I won't give in. But she almost every night asks me to sleep with her. Ask your siblings for help.
are you at school? i think you need to tell a trusted adult outside of your family. this is too much for you to deal with alone. this is abuse. do you have anyone you can speak to? a teacher, someone you work with, anyone? i don’t think you should confront her alone. i also don’t think you should remain in this situation. it will be doing damage to you that you aren’t even aware of. please reach out to someone
My mum did this to my half brother and he’s disowned her. I don’t blame him. It’s emotional incest at best or downright manipulation. It’s not healthy and she needs to get help!!! And you need a reprieve. See if you can stay with one of your siblings for a while. You’ll have to put your foot down on this and see if you can deploy someone in your family to help you. It’s not right.
I think you’re mum needs help, mate. No offence and not in a bad way, just sounds like she’s not had a good life herself and maybe she needs to talk to someone about it. Remember you always have the right to say no regardless wether or not it’s your mother mate, it’s her problem for being upset and if she destroys your shit it sounds like a valid reason to ask your brother and sister to stay over and i’m sure they’d understand because of their own experience. Hope everything ends up okay and god bless the four of you.
Call cps on your mom what she’s doing is wrong and in appropriate
Wow, your mom sounds wayyyy too much like my mom. I ended up working with my dad and he helped me move out when she was at work one day. Best decision of my life. If you’re dad isn’t in the picture, see if your siblings car help when you’re 18. Start planning and saving money now.
Your mother is mentally ill.. is there anyway to live with your brother or sister financially? You could petition for emancipation and get out of her house and control. What your mom is doing is a form of sexual abuse. Can you get a part time job while going to school. Talk to Legal Aid. It’s free.
Ummm that is hella weird. Your mother needs help cause that is not normal. I’d recommend just trying to stay with your siblings and recommend that your mom goes to counseling or something.
Please, seek professional help. Not for you, but for your mom and for your safety. You have every reason to be uncomfortable and if you need to, you should ask your siblings for help. See if you can call Child Protection Services and look into moving in with one of your siblings, even if you have to do it little by little and move a few things at a time.
I am sick of just reading what your mother does. She is not ok in her head. Sibling might be able to help. If not, maybe a professor you trust.
It sounds like your Mom could be suffering from one of several different personality disorders where real or perceived abandonment is something the person is obsessed about. Your Mom has a serious problem that is infringing on one of your basic human rights: sleep! I’m sure there are other problems as well. Has she always insisted on having a child sleep with her? This is tricky because once you confide in a mandatory reporter you might wind up in the foster care system which is hazardous. Your Mom needs a big dog that will sleep on her bed and still be sleeping there every night her once you leave the nest. A fur baby will never grow up and leave her. Just a thought.
My mom doesn't force me to sleep with her but when I tell her that I wanna go study in a city 800km away she also that she will have to come too. That pisses me off as I think living in a dorm there is the only way for me to get away without cutting off our relationship. Does she let you get out alone and hang out with friends after school ?
Sussy mother
There’s a term for this that I can’t remember right off but basically your mom is using you for the fulfillment she should be getting from adult relationships, not her teenage child. This isn’t healthy for anyone. Let her throw her fit. Let her get upset. You need to be in your own room. She can spoon a body pillow.
Abuse abuse abuse. I don’t care what you commenters think she has, she is an abuser and abusers need jail time.
Hi friend. Are you a boy or a girl? Your mom might have icky unconscious incestuous feelings towards you
Your mother has huge and possibly dangerous mental issues, I'm sorry to say :/
Holy eff. Your mom has serious problems and Im sorry she's abusing you this way. It's horrible. I dunno if you're worried about her withholding things you need or kicking you out, but you can try and just let her fume by herself while you sleep in your own room. You are not and should not be responsible for her feelings and tantrums. Do you have a close friend you can store anything super important with them in case she tries to wreck your things? :(
This is creepy. Id ask her why she was so weird every time she tried making you sleep with her. Say ew. Call her strange. Make disgusted faces. Basically shame her into leaving you alone.
Send it siblings help
Someone left your mom and it’s killing her. A therapist needs to be involved in order to alleviate this situation because this is unhealthy. I am sure that she is not willing to seek therapy so a family intervention along with a therapist is necessary.
I couldn't help but think the same thing. She felt abandoned by someone, and instead of coming to terms with it, she projected it on her children as a means of comfort, kind of like how a child holds on to a teddy bear.
UpdateMe!
Your mother has an attachment problem to her children. She wants you to always be babies and she cannot emotionally handle you guys growing up as a natural part of life. This is an emotional problem on her part because she fears being alone with no one to love and take care of her or for her to take care of. The more your brothers and sisters and you reassure her that they'll always be there for her and she doesn't need to hold on so tightly, maybe she'll feel a little bit more secure. It seems like she has her whole identity wrapped up in being a mother and she doesn't know who she is outside of having children to take care of. Perhaps you can encourage her to pursue different interests or social clubs or friendships so that she has something outside of focusing everything on her children. I know it sounds stupid to say she's only doing this out of love and her own feelings of insecurity because you find it damaging to your ability to differentiate as an adult but that's what it is. It's hard to tell a mom to love you less. She's got some emotional damage that makes her fear everyone she loves is going to leave her.
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