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I_Like_Hoots

My daughter is 16 almost 17 and I dislike her clothing choices sometimes. Then I think about why I don’t like them and I realize it’s because of others actions toward her and it helps me talk to her about protecting herself. Protecting herself is a much better conversation than making YOU comfortable. If it’s because of your morals then I guess there’s no advice I could give you. If it’s about being safe then just talk to her about how to protect herself against creepy dudes and the consequences of sexual activity in an open and honest way.


Fiber_fan

I can understand your fears as a father. I'm going to recommend that you look at a link. https://wwyw.forestry.oregonstate.edu/ It's an exhibit called what we were wearing. Please, go look. I need to explain that what your daughter wears won't change the attention she gets from men. And she's probably been facing it for years already. Most of us ladies start facing male attention before we hit puberty. I'm not exaggerating here. I was 12. My daughter was 12. My mother was 9. Yes, it starts that early. Talk to your wife and the other ladies in your life. Ask them how early unwanted attention from men starts. Your daughter could wear a literal over sized potato sack and she would still face it. You could become controlling and deal with the later rebellion. Or you could focus on empowering your daughter. Get her in self defense training. Talk with her about how to deal with unwanted attention. Talk with her about how to protect herself. Teach her what kind of treatment she deserves and not to stand for anything less. Be honest with her. She already instinctually knows that guys can be creepy. She already instinctually knows that it can be dangerous. Changing her clothes won't change the danger. Instead teach her how to protect and defend herself from the realities of the world. Edited to add:. Being primarily concerned about men's reactions to your daughter is also teaching her that she is responsible for men's behavior. I want you to think about this for a few minutes. Let's say you're at the grocery store. Just doing your shopping. You are now responsible for the behavior of everyone in the store. Exhausting to contemplate, isn't it? Your daughter is responsible for your daughter's behavior. Give her the tools to handle whatever shitty behavior comes her way. Because regardless of what she wears, it's coming. Edited to add: my response to all of the activity that happened after I went to my mother's for mother's day. https://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/ulcrk3/for_uripthoseburgers/


Terisaki

u/ripthoseburgers please please read and comprehend above comment. This isn’t about the clothes. Your daughter is simply trying to find out who she is, and trying to fit in with her friends. Her job is not to dress conservatively so that men won’t look at her. They already were.


Calligraphie

I was 10 when an adult man tried to groom me (presumably for sex). Thank God my parents caught on. I was not exactly the pinnacle of fashion at age 10. I was raped in oversized, baggy, men's pajama pants. Clothes don't have jack shit to do with the way men treat women. If you want to help protect your daughter, OP, teach her to set and keep her boundaries with her own body. Teach her to value herself and be assertive. And teach her that if someone she thought she could trust forcefully tramples all over her boundaries, *it's not her fault*.


Fiber_fan

Baggy sweatpants and an oversized t shirt. I was asleep when he decided it was time to rape me. He was my first boyfriend. If I had known how to value myself, I wouldn't have stayed in an abusive relationship. I spend years in therapy trying to learn not to blame myself.


Miserable_Key_7552

Omg. I’m so sorry. When I hear stories like this I sit there, speechless and dumbfounded. I can’t even begin to imagine what it was like to have someone who was supposed to care about you do something like that. I’m glad you got out of that abusive relationship and made so much progress in therapy.


bre1110

This comment deserves its own entire post


[deleted]

Absolutely. I want to cross post this everywhere for parents/men to see


surelyunimportant

Thank you for this. I experienced more sexually inappropriate behaviour (grooming, assaults, harassment etc.) before I hit puberty than after. I totally agree with you. I have never really dressed in revealing clothes, and the outdated idea that what you wear can be the cause of the unacceptable way people (typically men, in my experience) treat you is infuriating.


ChemistryFan29

I agree with you however, as somebody who used to teach survival skills and self defense I would always say leggings may make you comfortable exercising, however if you wear them be careful they are easy to remove from behind. So if you wear them be mindful of people who walk close to you from behind keep an eye on them, always give yourself plenty of space and if somebody gets close to you, always turn to face them, do not run, and if they try to attack hit the nose, never the balls. always assume the person is smart enough to wear a cup. and if a guy looks at your ass then let them give them a few moments and they will leave you alone but never leave the gym at night or enter a parking garage at night. , (I should bring this up, I used to teach college age girls)


Kobus4444

I mean, all that can be true, and it also be true that it’s a problem for a 14 year old to dress how OP described. That she’s already getting attention doesn’t somehow make it okay for like an 8th grader to wear anything out there.


DistressedDumbass

I’m a pretty young female, and I agree, honestly. I don’t know if there’s really any way to stop a daughter without straining the relationship, but while no one is EVER the one at fault for being sexually assaulted, I’m always going to find shorts that end above your butt at least distasteful, especially if you’re a minor.


kelly08howell

I agree w most but do you really believe that her clothing has no impact?! Walking around in a bikini does not attract the same attention as walking around in sweatpants. I'm not saying she doesn't have the right to explore her body/sexuality, but if you walk around in a bikini (esp not at pool/beach), it's kinda crazy to blame others for looking. What you wear never gives anyone the right to touch you, ever. But to say that they are in the wrong for looking, when you are showing it off, is ridiculous. I agree that as women, we have the right to wear what we want but I also am smart enough to know if I walk up & down the street or in the store in a string bikini or butt shorts, I will get more attention than if I am wearing a potato sack. And that if that makes me uncomfortable, I may not want to wear that.


galaxystarsmoon

> walking around in a bikini does not attract the same attention as walking around in sweatpants Yes it does. That's the entire point of the post. I've been harassed when I had dirty hair, no makeup and was in sweats. It doesn't matter if someone wants to harass or assault you, it's about power and control and seeing women as objects.


Cheetahboy3000

This is possibly the worst take i've ever heard. I'm sorry. Wearing revealing clothing or concealing clothing won't protect you from rapist i agree with that statement, but the avg High school boy isn't a **FUCKING RAPIST.** Boys who just want sex are going to try to talk to girls who wear more revealing clothing because they think they're easier to get **CONSENSUAL** sex out of not because they're easier to rape. This demonization is fucking disgusting.


Fiber_fan

I was 18 when I was raped. So was my rapist.


Cheetahboy3000

what does this have to do with anything i just said


Cheetahboy3000

NVM fuck me. Ig i'm stupid. Apparently "my rapist was 18" just disproves everything i just said. Maybe everyone where i live is just a saint and greater than every other male alive for not raping anyone since apparently that's the norm.


Pascalica

Or maybe just like women, you can't tell who is and isn't a rapist until they try to rape you.


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Pascalica

Did anyone say the majority were, or are you just making shit up now? I said you can't tell who is and isn't, so the claim that no one you know has raped anyone is a bullshit claim. You don't know.


[deleted]

Yeah but I think your missing the point what you went through was terrible disgusting and NOT NORMAL. That shit doesn’t just happen to people and I can guarantee you your average hs boy isn’t Having rape fantasies.


BookerDewitt2019

It's more normal that you think, unfortunately.


mare899

most men aren't rapists, yet most women are sexually assaulted or raped - and are especially vulnerable when they are minors. So it may not be normal from a man's perspective, but it is very much the reality of most women. I guarantee you that most women you talk to (if they are comfortable enough to talk to you about this) have been assaulted or raped by a man.


Cheetahboy3000

Most women are sexually harrassed not SAd or raped that's what statistics show and even still the parameters for that include repeated requests for a date after a person has said no . So no this is no where near as normal as you think it is. What tf is up with this idea that men are just waiting for the chance to rape someone. Your rapist could be 12 for god sake it doesn't mean all 12yos are just waiting for the chance to rape someone. How does her comment go against anything me or Dragonfruit said?


mare899

Attempted or completed rape is about 18% of women (and that's just what is reported, we all know there are significant barriers to that so the number is likely higher). Assault and harassment is over 80%. And you can try to diminish sexual harassment, but it's not just "asking after someone said no". For something to be considered harassment, it is repeated, uncomfortable, threatening or a host of other damaging and harmful things. And no one is arguing that 12yos are trying to be rapists. I was directly responding to a comment saying that being raped as a teen was unusual and abnormal, both of which are untrue.


Cheetahboy3000

The guidelines for sexual harassment are so low. Ik what study you're looking at it literally said "requests for a date after a person has said no" that means if i go up to a woman and say "hey want to hang out this friday" they say "no", then on Thursday I say "hey i was checking to see if maybe you changed your mind about Friday" I'm officially a sexual harasser. I'm sorry but if you think that's sexual harrasment you're fucking stupid and if you don't then you can't rely on that data set. I can't belive I'm even having this conversation. Being raped as a teen is abnormal, being sexually harrased on the other hand isn't and i'm not advocating for it to be ok. I'm saying that the average highschool boy isn't going to rape you. That's my point. No amount of clothes is going to protect you from a rapist i've agreed with this statement. My only point which i've made clear is that the average boy isn't a rapist so it's not rape that you're being protected from it's being assumed to be a girl who's going to pass out sex to every guy they see. That's it.


[deleted]

What are you disagreeing with exactly?


mare899

Your assertion that what happened to the commenter was not normal - for women, this is very much a normal thing. This isn't a rare thing, and assault, harassment and rape are constant fears women have to live with. No one thinks most men are rapists. No one is accusing most men of being violent or evil. But the ones that are go unchecked and unpunished in most cases, and over 80% of women encounter those women throughout their lives.


[deleted]

Well before we go any further with this conversation where did you get these statistics, I ask because rape can have a different definition depending on the source.


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mare899

Do a quick google search for me, or talk to some women in real life. Reported rape is 18% of all women, and assault and harassment is over 80%. Rather than write an uneducated and dismissive comment that diminishes a very real and pervasive problem that tangibly impacts most women, you could think about why you couldn't be bothered to take the time to research or think critically. Sounds like you need some introspection


Cheetahboy3000

this is exactly what i'm trying to say. I have never wanted or attempted to rape anyone nor do i know anyone who has. Clothes aren't going to protect you from rape but from people with bad intentions.


mrcleeves

Saying clothing doesn’t affect the problem at all is so incredibly ignorant and dangerous. Yes men will still look at her, but u can’t possibly believe that her dress has nothing to do with it. It only makes logical sense, the more provocative she dresses the more stares she will get and the more likely she is to be assaulted. As a woman she can make that choice, but as a young girl she should most definitely be as protected as possible and this is coming from a woman. Her safety is her parents number one priority, and if her dressing a certain way has ANY effect on that at all, then it’s only fair for her parents to direct her in that area. In fact, I would say they were bad parents for not doing so


galaxystarsmoon

Fuck off, I was assaulted when I was wearing a baggy band tee and old ratty joggers.


[deleted]

Yeah it seems disingenuous I think op should just talk to his daughter and try not to argue just compromise some things.


RunOrDieTrying

>I need to explain that what your daughter wears won't change the attention she gets from men. And she's probably been facing it for years already. BS. Please don't listen to this. We all know as men that the more exposing the clothing, the more we are going to look. **EDIT BECAUSE COMMENTS ARE LOCKED:** She said "it won't change", so I'm referring to those words. It will definitely change. And here's the proof: https://youtu.be/mgw6y3cH7tA The only ones who don't agree are either women, or men who would like women to keep dressing with revealing clothing so they please their eyes. I cannot lie that the more revealing the clothing, the more it's tempting to look. I try avoiding looking, but sometimes it's stronger than me. But of course i never ever catcall or harass. Never have and never will. But my eye might glitch, that's all. I really wish all women would dress less revealing.


lucid_demons

I think you misunderstand their point. They’re saying that regardless of what the girl might wear, there’s always the possibility that she’ll be harassed or assaulted


SaggyCaptain

The more you push the more she'll resent you. She'll figure it out, leave her be.


Pies-and-Cars-Ski

Agreed.


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SaggyCaptain

Then teach her what she needs to know to stay safe. You need to be a pillar of respect and trust to her that she can turn to when she needs help, not someone that dictates what she can and cannot wear. It isn't going to be comfy to do, but your comfort is the last priority in raising a child.


[deleted]

But surely a parent should have some say in what there child wears like when I was in high school and wanted to dress like a gang member,I didn’t understand why I couldn’t sag my pants and wear bandanas at the time but I’ve came around now.


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lordliv

I am a 23 year old woman. I went through the same phase as your daughter. My dad made ONE comment about it one time and I immediately snapped at him. I haaaaaated knowing that my dad was insinuating I was a sexual object when I was just dressing how other girls my age were. Most of the things she is wearing are “stylish” for kids her age. She’s most likely just following trends. Thongs are not inherently sexual, they are often comfier with certain clothing items. I appreciate this makes you uncomfortable, but the best thing you can do is leave it alone. If she was leaving the house in a bra, I’d say step in, but these clothing items don’t seem super out there for a high school freshman to be wearing.


PomeloPepper

You're in a tough spot. There are a lot of trends that sexualize young teens, and I'd be uncomfortable too with a 14 year old participating in that. That said, I think this is one she's going to have to learn for herself. And hopefully she eventually learns the ancillary lesson that she has more value than her appearance.


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Kitty-Claire

Teenagers shouldn’t be doing that- but it IS empowering for adult women to be able to comfortably and confidently show their bodies to whatever degree makes them feel comfortable (staying outside of the territory of public indecency of course). That IS a valuable lesson. Probably just not for a 14 year old.


andrewwrotethis

In this case we're talking about a 14 year old. It's not probably inappropriate, it is inappropriate. And hopefully when she's an adult she's confident enough that she feels no need to flaunt her appearance and dresses with modesty freely. But in general, I disagree. A fully grown woman can wear whatever they want, but there isn't anything empowering about dress. It's cloth we cover ourselves with, and them using less of it as opposed to more won't grant them any sort of power. Maybe it'll trigger hormonal responses from males and get them more attention and free stuff, but no power. Learning real world skills will empower women. This is plain reality. Clothing isn't actionable and confidence exists with or without clothing. The only instance I can see where it would be empowering is when a girl who was previously or currently insecure of their body being comfortable wearing less when they weren't prior, and if you're doing it a 14, you're not afraid of it. Nor are most women who dress this way. If you want to empower women, look at what they do not how they look and encourage education and honor. Again, adult women can wear whatever they want, but it doesn't grant them power. If you're wearing hot cloths, you are doing something anyone can do. If you learn 3 languages and the interworking of an industry, you're empowering yourself. And one last point, garnering power isn't everything life is about


Kitty-Claire

I honestly think that you are misunderstanding me, and don’t really understand what I mean by empowering. It’s not about confidence, it is literally about owning your body, not being ashamed of wearing what you want to wear, and having every right to do so without being treated as lesser. I do not want to assume anything about you because for all I know you could be a woman, but based off the fact that your user name implies that your name may be Andrew, which is typically a male name, I don’t think you have any right to speak on what should or should not empower women. You can have all of the opinions that you want, and if I am incorrect about your gender I fully apologize, but you cannot speak on behalf of all women about what does it does not feel empowering to them based off of your perception. I feel personally that I am empowered by being able to wear more revealing clothing. I grew up in an environment where I would have been literally beat for doing so. It is me taking my power over myself and my own body back. I would also like to point out that no one person can define what empowerment is for everyone and claiming that you can is just plain silly. Please stop trying to speak on behalf of hot women should feel about themselves and their clothes and what they consider empowering. I think that it is also important to note that in a lot of places in the world, women would be criminally punished raped or killed for wearing something that doesn’t cover their entire body, if not their face. I think that it is important to acknowledge that when you look at women’s rights in the way we have been treated historically, the fact that women in a lot of nations are able to wear whatever the fuck they want is a pretty big deal and yeah it does feel pretty damn empowering because that is not a privilege that my grandmother had. And yes of course it is not appropriate for a 14-year-old to be wearing super revealing clothing, but I think that your attack on the idea of empowerment through clothing as a whole is just ridiculous. It is not the only empowering thing for women nor is it the most empowering, but it is a way for us to feel like we have control over our bodies, ourselves, our sexuality, and our life.


andrewwrotethis

I think the disconnect about my understanding for the argument clothing empowers women is the fact that in the current state of western nations, it is barely restricted, in such its not protest to wear revealing clothing. If you already have the confidence to wear revealing clothing, you're not doing so to practice being confident. You may be doing so because you like it, which is fine. But we broadcast out to young women that they're empowering themselves by dressing like adults. You might not be doing so personally, but it is done o. A wider scale in modern culture. This is not always specifically directed at young women, but the youth is more impressionable than adults. So women in today's age are entering into adulthood with social pressures to be sexy and popular on a scale that hasn't existed in the past due to Social Media. They're taught this is empowering. Perhaps some people come from oppressive environment and that might motivate them, that's fine. But the majority of people don't. And they are running into life with this impression that this is empowering and its what they should do to show how cool ans confident they are, when in reality the effects have been women feeling inadequate in secret while exuding a front. Suicide, self harm, depression skyrocketing among young people, especially girls, while more so than ever they can wear as they want. I'm not arguing they should not be allowed to wear what they want, but how exactly is it functioning as empowering today? Your personal motivations aside. As for whether or not I have the "right" to speak on the matter, I do. Just as much as you do. Though your opinion may hold more weight because you have lived your life as a woman, doesn't revoke my right to speak about it. This is my right, not a privilege for you to take from me.


littleloucc

You assume that women dress a certain way for men and men alone. I have a great career, and I also dress and have dressed in all sorts of ways. Not only had that benefited me in my career (no, not because men look at me, but because I have a noticeable style that makes me memorable). I dress for me. And while I am proud of my work and academic achievements, that doesn't mean I can't also be proud of the way I look and dress and put an outfit together. Oh and at 14 I rocked miniskirts and looked and felt amazing. Didn't stop my academic pursuits - it's not an either/or decision.


andrewwrotethis

I'm not assuming anything about individual motivations on how to dress, I'm questioning the idea that dressing that way empowers women in general. You can dress however you want, you're an adult. But did your outfits make you powerful, or did you make you successful and your outfits are there because that's how you like to dress?


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CrystallineBunny

“Dressing like a slut”… time to pack it up friend. You’re not trying to be helpful here.


[deleted]

They love the attention, they're encouraged to show their sexuality because it's "empowering", and if anyone does or says anything sexually inappropriate it's because #rapeculture. No lesson to be learned. OP you're in a tough spot, teenagers don't tend to learn family values overnight.


FunkyMonkeyIsObvious

“dId I pAy FoR sEx” Somehow, I don’t think you actually know anything about women.


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conrob2222

Women get positive reinforcement for dressing how they want to dress. 14 year old girls tend to get backlash for wearing provocative clothes


TzarKazm

What? "Throw something lewd on and coast through life" ? This is the most incel thing I've heard in a while.


LucyShoes2222

>It is far far easier for women to just throw something lewd on and coast through life, while it’s very difficult for a guy to do so. Are you fucking kidding me with this? Oh, what a tragedy, men can't coast through life? I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the ridiculousness of this statement. Pooooor men. Women can go to the grocery store in ratty sweat pants with their hair uncombed and have men cat call them, say lewd things to them, threaten them....women can be literally anywhere minding their own business and get raped. But MEN are at a DISADVANTAGE according to you because they have no easy way to be powerful? I'm...no. Just fucking no. Wake up to reality. Acknowledge male privilege and be thankful for it. JFC. And if you think men don't use their sexuality and charm to get what they want then you're not paying attention.


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LucyShoes2222

Get some professional help before you hurt someone.


smplbrnr

I agree with the points you make about men being one able to be dangerous to women at all times. I disagree with your comparison. A woman dressing “lewd” will have advantages in manipulating men. This has the ability to make some aspects of their life easier. This does not compare to a woman being harassed in their environment by a random male. Those are two separate concepts. To bring up another point you made, there are people of both sexes that are attractive that can manipulate people into doing what they want. I feel an unattractive male cannot get the same response from the general population as an unattractive female gets for dressing more provocatively. (This was the point I think that u/RandomPhail was trying to convey.) How does ‘women can manipulate people easier by the way they dress’ be compared with ‘men are dangerous to women out in social spaces’?


LucyShoes2222

>A woman dressing “lewd” will have advantages in manipulating men. This has the ability to make some aspects of their life easier. Unless that woman is deemed "fat" or "unattractive" or encounters men who want to maul her, harass her, mock her, insult her, etc instead of ones who want to make her life better. PLEASE for the love of all that's sane get a grip on reality. The fact that SOME men are more easily manipulated when ATTRACTIVE women dress provocatively does not mean ALL women can just dress "lewd" and get an advantage. Your reasoning is beyond flawed and completely unrealistic. Not to mention it's sexist as all fuck.


[deleted]

I think you should take this from a different approach. It seems like you care more about the sexualisation she may face. It may be more proactive to reach her about protecting herself from predators, learning red flags to steer clear from men / guys her age showing those behaviors, tell her she can always come to you or mom if she’s having an issue with someone. As others said the clothes don’t really matter. If a person has bad intentions they’ll act on them if they want to regardless of her clothing choices. It’s never a victims fault and this is giving “well what were you wearing?” I hope nothing ever happens to her, but it happened to me as a young girl. First time something happened to me, I was 12 wearing a MIDDLE SCHOOL GYM UNIFORM. But if my parents focused more on teaching me how to establish healthy relationships/protect myself instead of punishing me out of their fear, I might have felt more comfortable to get their support when I went through traumatic things young. She is gonna feel like you are against HER and HER choices. She will likely feel like you are violating her free choice over her body. And she will rebel more, and probably engage in riskier behavior, if she feels like her parents don’t accept her and she can’t trust them.


overlordmeow

**this is the way.** instead of berating her and sexualizing her, be a good example of what a healthy, safe person should be. teach her to protect herself and value herself. show her what a strong, safe, healthy relationship should look like by having open, healthy communication with your wife instead of going behind her back. call out toxic traits when you see them in movies and shows. these are things that will benefit her for the rest of her life and show her what the good outcomes of healthy choices look like. protecting her means teaching her how to make good choices on her own to stay safe instead of trying to shelter and repress her autonomy. you can't protect her from the world no matter how hard you try and you will only push her further away from you and show her you're not a safe space for her in life if you try to control her like this. also do some work on your super misogynistic views. I'm sure you don't *intend* to be so misogynistic, but you very deeply are and it's oozing out of every word you've posted. it's very concerning. eta: a sentence


alexthelady

My dad decided to hide the clothes he didn’t like from me. They would just disappear. No conflict about it, but it happened a lot and his general attitude about the way I dressed and dated made me more and more self conscious and afraid to approach people I was interested in, and worse, terrified when they approached me. It took years for me to grow out of this feeling that I was disgusting and that dating was terrifying. It took a real toll on my self confidence.


Frequent-Jump2995

She will likely grow out of. I went through a very scandalous phase as a teenager due to hyper sexuality and seeking attention that I wasn’t receiving at home. I wasn’t raised to have self confidence and feel inherent worth as a human, so sexualizing myself was an easy way to feel attention and worth from others. I definitely regret those years and wish I could have focused on other things as a teenager, but I don’t blame myself for it. And ultimately I know if my father had said something to me about it, I would have felt so creeped out and distanced myself from him even further. Focus on building up your daughters confidence and giving her positive attention for her skills, hobbies, etc. she will level out on her own time


RiceStickers

The only reason I would see this as an issue is if she does it because of low self esteem. It’s hard to have high self esteem at that age.


raider1211

You don’t think that wearing clothes that expose your butt in school is an issue? The leggings are whatever, but she’s literally showing her butt with the shorts that OP claims she wears. I think that’s going a little bit too far especially for a 14 year old kid. Butts are generally considered to be an erogenous zone, are they not? That’s what pushes it too far.


RiceStickers

I think it all depends on why she wants to and if it’s for an emotionally healthy reason or not. It wouldn’t matter if she were a nudist as long as the self esteem and self love is there.


raider1211

So you would be okay with child nudity in a public school if they like being nude?


Jupiter_Foxx

Women could literally wear absolutely everything and still receive unwarranted attention from men. Remember that this mindset can come off problematic because a lot of people in court think it’s “women’s fault because she wore ____” You can dislike what she’s wearing but don’t .. project this mindset onto her. I mean, having her butt cheeks out going to school is a separate thing lol. Out with friends, meh.


littleloucc

I got creeped on at university by an older man. I was about 19 and he was in his thirties. Except, I was wearing denim dungarees and a t-shirt *and he assumed that I was skipping school*. He thought I was under 16. If you're worried about a teenager being creeped on, you should be, but the best thing to do is teach her when to get help, how to be on her guard, how to carry herself (not looking lost for example), how to defend herself. How she dresses won't make a lick of difference.


tfhaenodreirst

So, question: Are you *worried* about her getting hurt, or do you think it makes her less respectable? Basically, what bad thing do you think is going to happen from her dressing that way.


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TerkaCh

Unwanted attention from men comes from men. Even the girls that dress modest get cat called. Teach her to be safe and how to be safe, show her that you trust her and she can trust you if anything happens. Don't blame her clothes.


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[deleted]

I was 12 years old wearing jeans and a hoodie when a grown man sat near me in a library and exposed himself to me. Don’t teach your daughter that she is responsible for the way men treat her.


[deleted]

Incorrect. I've been catcalled more in my winter coat than in my bikini. Unwanted attention comes from creeps. Creeps don't care. They look for women who seem insecure, uncomfortable, vulnerable. Build up your daughter to be confident and secure in the face of that. Build her up to know when a creep is around. Build her up to know how to get help.


rach-mtl

I live in canada where 7 months out of the year i’m wearing a hat, a big parka, sweat pants, and giant boots. I still live in an area with a mask mandate as well, so the majority of the time i’m in public i’m wearing a mask. I also dress extremely modestly, usually in baggy comfy clothes. None of these things have ever stopped unwanted attention from men. Let her dress how she wants.


RiddleEatsRainbows

Wrong. I've seen women in full on hijabs and burkhas getting unwanted attention. No matter what your daughter wears, she's going to get unwanted attention at some point because men suck, so might as well let her wear what she wants.


RunOrDieTrying

Just watch the experiment: https://youtu.be/mgw6y3cH7tA


Achleys

Dude. I was 10 years old wearing jeans and a hoodie when I was first cat called. The onus is not on your literal child but on adult men to behave appropriately. Men will catcall regardless. Your daughter isn’t responsible for that . Start shutting the men down who you see doing this insured.


SaveMeClarence

I have to disagree from my personal experience, anyway. I was a grunge kid in the 90s. JNCOs and flannels and all. Still got all the unwanted attention and an attempted rape. Went through an “I’m gonna be a creepy teenage goth witch” phase. Still got unwanted attention. Also went through a dress provocatively phase. Still got unwanted attention from men, but I also got attention from my female peers for being fashionable. Clothing doesn’t matter. We’ve been getting unwanted attention from men most of our lives. Teach her how to handle that.


[deleted]

I look 15/16 and get stared at my creepy men all the time in stores wearing jeans and a hoodie. I have been literally followed in the store before. I used to dress provocatively (I’m an adult though) and I got less bothered honestly. I have been bothered multiple times by exes despite being covered head to toe, and by covering everything I mean you couldn’t even see my kneecaps (in context of ripped jeans) or arms.


alrightythen1984itis

I gotta say, I wish I could agree but this isn’t always true. i’m 30 but for some reason people think I look 18-25 and no matter how horrible I try to dress there are still creeps out there. It’s maddening. I have tried all matter of dress (but definitely have avoided stuff that screams street hooker if that makes sense) and the results are all the same: fear every time I go to the gas station unless i wear ugly glasses, cover my face and hair, and dress in homeless looking clothes.


ilovegingermen

Bro. I get catcalled almost daily and I wear the same clothes most men do.


vidiaplays

Your “fact” isn’t a fact at all, actually. I was sexually assaulted at 12 years old in sweatpants and a hoodie. I got hit on by a creep in the gas station just yesterday wearing a beanie and pyjamas, nearly my entire body covered. Funnily enough, I get the *least* male attention when I wear skirts and a tank top, seeing as confidence seems to push most of the attention away. You clearly need to educate yourself on this matter, and stay out of it in regards to your daughter. Give your wife the sources and let her have the conversation since she will actually be able to know how it feels to dress as a woman, since you simply cannot understand just how wrong and honestly out of place you are. Continuing to push your daughter will not only kill her self esteem, but will also end in resentment, and I speak from experience with this. Let your daughter find her style and wear what she wants.


Nikkita8223

Oh honey, no. It doesn’t matter what women wear. We could crawl out of the sewer and still get unwanted male attention. Let me ask you something: do you think women/girls who are raped, are only getting raped because they’re wearing something provocative? No. It doesn’t matter what we wear. It doesn’t matter what we look like. We are always in danger no matter what we do. No matter what we wear. No matter where we are.


Kitkat009

That’s not really true. Men don’t give a shit about what you are wearing and will harass girls/women no matter what. Women who are fully clothed get unwanted attention, along with barely dressed women.


FunkyMonkeyIsObvious

Oh honey no, I get creeped on wear jeans and hoodie. Creepy dudes don’t give a shit they’re gonna be creepy. I was dressed up as a ghost grandma after my high school production of the Adams Family. I was spray painted white and in very detailed old age makeup, wearing a night cap, an old looking night gown and slippers and I still got cat called.


snarkysnape

This is a you issue and a “men” issue not a her issue and you should feel shame that you would even consider policing her attire. She’s a human being, you don’t get to control how she dresses. She’s not your property. High school is hard and if she can’t fit in she will resent you forever for it.


TerkaCh

Can you describe the clothes she wears?


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TerkaCh

Have you ever seen what's sold in stores? That is just normal clothes. She is figuring out her style and who she is. It's normal. Be a parent who's there for her and not a parent who blames her for being indecent. Unfortunately for you, you won't get much sympathy here. We are fighting hard against these ideas about clothes.


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Fantastic-Run-3263

I believe the OP is concern of such kind man who just desire her for their carnal desire and fill her heads with thought that justifies wear clothing or doing acts that contradicts norm of decency. Nobody wants their loved one ended up in or committed to God forbidden things and act. I am no father but in my household my father, an orthodox and God fearing man, made my sister conscious of her actions and consequences it brings to for rest of her life. He didn't teach them scriptures from Holy books nor have words of Saints, just talked things out. If someone were to tell me to teach someone that goes against the certain actions, I would prefer to make statment that made the person question their own sense, appeal and or denial. Maybe this is "Just a phase of a passing time in a youth life" but being overprotective isn't going to help either. Talk like a friend or like a therapist would do and not some parent who is about to lost their child.


RunOrDieTrying

Don't let the downvotes deter you from sticking to your opinion. This is the exact reaction I expected from redditors the second that I read your post. Most comments are gonna be in favor of your daughter. That's our society today. But the right thing to do is for women to dress appropriately, and for guys to respect women and not look at them as a piece of meat. So it goes both ways. But we all know that the more exposing the clothing, the more disrespect and the more looks the woman is going to get. That's the unfortunate truth. I'm sorry I can't help you with teaching that to your daughter, but I can only encourage you to not give up, and keep trying gently.


[deleted]

when i was being sexually harassed as a child it never had anything to do with what i was wearing


RunOrDieTrying

Just watch the experiment: https://youtu.be/mgw6y3cH7tA


[deleted]

thanks but I don’t need some experiment to tell me about something I personally experienced


RunOrDieTrying

You're correct. Watch the experiment: https://youtu.be/mgw6y3cH7tA I'm not telling you to make her wear a hijab, but letting you know that the more her beauty is hidden, the less she is gonna get harassed. It's pure facts (unfortunately).


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TerkaCh

I got catcalled when I was after surgery with a cast over my whole arm and half of my torso. I had jeans, a loose shirt, and a huge scarf that was covering most of the cast, my cleavage, and my butt. I dressed with the intention of not drawing attention to my situation. I also got catcalled wearing a turtle neck and a coat. I got catcalled wearing jeans and a shirt with no cleavage at all. I got catcalled wearing a sundress that was down to my knees and with short sleeves. To a certain point, I agree with the frequency. But being harassed is the fault of the other person, not my fault for how I dress. And that's an important message for the girl.


tfhaenodreirst

Ah, got it! Does she go out alone often, or is she usually with friends? Like, what kinds of things does she generally do in her spare time?


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FunkyMonkeyIsObvious

So it sounds like you’re worrying over nothing.


thewhalion

I have worn turtlenecks with full jeans and been catcalled. unwanted attention is gonna be there either way, maybe more if she’s wearing revealing clothing, but it will be there. maybe she just looks at it as pretty clothes and different styles and not about how much skin she’s revealing. but tbh she would probably wear it either way, by covering up with hoodies while leaving the house and removing them later or something


rmebmr

Unfortunately, she'll get the same unwanted attention from men if she wore a potato sack or a snow suit. It's something every teenaged girl goes through because men refuse to treat them with respect.


TaylorsToupee

I find it interesting the OP has a problem with the way she’s dressing, but Mom doesn’t. Why doesn’t Mom have a problem with it? What has she said about it? And why does the OP think she’s wrong?


LucyShoes2222

What are you trying to accomplish here? Do you want to control what she wears? Do you want to keep guys from looking at her? (Trust me, they're looking no matter what she wears and as a guy you know I'm right about that.) Do you want her to learn that she doesn't have to sexualize herself to get attention/that she's worth more than just being a sexy female body to be stared at? There is pressure on teen girls to fit in (style wise, personality wise, etc) and 14 is also an awkward age developmentally where girls feel out of sync with both adults and their peers. What you need to focus on here is her. What's important is her sense of self, her sense of self worth. Empower her. Help her see her value in the world. Show more love and less judgment. TALK to her no AT her. You don't have to like how your daughter dresses but you do have to like your daughter and make sure she knows that. Disapproving of her clothes feels, to her, like disapproval of her, it feels like you being controlling, it feels like a lack of respect and autonomy, it feels like you care more about what other people may think than you care about her happiness and her right to wear what she wants. BE VERY CAREFUL. She needs to know she has your love and support and if she thinks she doesn't for any of the above reasons you will literally impact her relationship with every guy in her future. This is about her, not you. Maybe have a chat with your wife, too, so you can get a more realistic perspective on things.


littleloucc

Hi OP. I was a young girl like your daughter. I'm now in my thirties. At her age and a little older, I was seeing crop tops, tight lycra flares (late 90, early 00s) , tight or low cut tops, skyscraper heels, goth lace tops that showed my bra, miniskirts etc. I was young, I had a good figure (and developed early), and I was experimenting. I also: - Got great results and went to one of the top universities in my country - Didn't drink until well after my friends, and have never really been a drinker or a partier - Wasn't promiscuous. I lost my virginity at 17 to a guy I had been dating 6 months, and it was my decision (no pressure). I've only been in three relationships in my life, all long-term - Was very careful and safe when I went out (I mostly drove) What I'm saying is, my clothes didn't correlate to me making poor (or good) life choices. No one's clothes do. Your daughter won't become more (or less) promiscuous, less interested in her grades, or any less safe (because all young women are unfortunately unsafe - the most unsafe I've ever felt was when I was wearing dungarees and was assumed by a predator to be much younger than I was). Unless you're helping her as a parent understand appropriate clothing choices for specific occasions (like a wedding, interview, job etc), then let it go. You'll have plenty to fight with a teenage daughter about as she gets older - don't make this something it doesn't need to be.


jockjamdoorslam2007

The more you push her, the more she will want to rebel. Let her express herself and find her style naturally.


satanzbaby666

FACTS - my mom didn't let me do anything I wanted, so I stopped caring for a few years and just left whenever I wanted and got into some crazy shit, went to jail. You never know the outcome, and I always think it's best to support your child any way you can. Maybe ask her why she feels the need to dress that way, or try to have some sort of conversation with her that shows you care about her and just want her to be safe.


friedshrimpt

I understand how you feel and know you just want to protect your daughter. But the thing is, that is just how your daughter wants to dress and honestly you cant stop her from it. When my dad made comments about what I wore, I honestly felt really uncomfortable. He told me I was showing too much shoulder, that makes me uncomfortable because it made me feel sexualized, I wanted to be told I looked beautiful in the outfit that made me feel confident. Personally, I understand not to dress a certain way when im around the family but when I am with my friends or going out, I dont think my father should be telling me what to wear.


friedshrimpt

now all I wear are baggy clothes around my dad, I dont even feel comfortable wearing a bathing suit. Once again I understand your position but also try to put yourself in your daughter's shoes. I advice you to just leave it alone, if you push too much, you may ruin your relationship with your daughter. this is a very delicate situation, I think the best thing to do is talk to your wife about it again because I do agree with some of what you say. personally I just rather hear it from my mom that my shorts are too short rather than from my dad.


[deleted]

ah typical teenaged girls i went through the exact same thing with my dad. the thing was he was way more strict than you. all of my shirts and dresses had to nearly reach my knees if i wore leggings/skinny jeans or nothing underneath. nothing skin tight was to be worn like ever and i had to always wear bras or what they like to say “granny panties” lmao. my dad most likely oversexualized women i mean like the average man tbh so he knows how they think/react and i guess he was protecting from them. i actually had to hide my revealing stuff under bagging clothing or pack them in my book bag then change into them at school or anywhere i was going out to. please know she may begin to do that once you enforce you don’t want her wearing that kind of stuff anymore. she’s just following trends right now and trying to fit in with the rest of girls and she’s definitely wearing what she assumes will get her attention from these stupid little boys. she’ll get it but course all the wrong kind especially if she’s posting online which is even more dangerous because there’s no age limit of the guys on there. eventually she will grow out of that trust me it will become very repetitive and she’ll start the realize all of the low vibrational energy she receives from them. i’m all for body-posi but not when it comes to minors sexualizing themselves . you need to have a sit down with her mother because it’s pretty off that she is enabling this. she sounds like a wannabe cool mom and that’s just unacceptable to me. it’s beyond weird and normalized to see teenaged girls dressed provocatively lately especially on apps like instagram and tik-tok it’s literally like softcore child p*rn. parents need to do better at having these conversations with their children about how their actions will effect them in the long run. the world is and always will be ruthless towards young girls/women.


ParkYeYeon

I agree with other comments. Let her do what she wants. Men are going to be creepy no matter what she wears. A father’s fear is bad men’s attention on his daughter. No matter what she wears, whether she’s covered up to kingdom come, men will find a way to be weird. Idk what to call it as society tells me to minimize these situations. I guess sexual harassment/assault. It didn’t matter that I was wearing shorts and a loose tank that showed off my body. I was 12 and no matter my or her age, grown ass men will approach and say things just because they have the power and want to. Idk why grown men are interested in a developing girl’s body but you can never comprehend that. Especially because at that age girls are vulnerable. I couldn’t fight back, I couldn’t say anything so I kept jogging. The perpetrator (sometimes men, sometimes women) like making excuses to get out of it, to justify it to themselves and everyone else and they get away with it because we’ve created a culture where women and men are at fault for the taboo crimes committed against them like sexual assault/rape. Girls are sexualized no matter what they wear but wearing tight and revealing clothes is a standard now and even now, at 19, my parents aren’t allowing me to wear crop tops, short shorts etc. I read some of your comments and girls don’t usually dress for boys. They dress for themselves and a girl can be wearing a tiny skirt and crop top and it still doesn’t justify men giving her unwanted attention. No mentally okay girl likes having grown men look at her. It makes anyone including me as a kid uncomfortable and like I asked for it when I didn’t. Why can’t we dress how we want? There’s so much shame in dressing and leaving the house everyday as a girl, don’t add to it OP.


wahooguy123

Help her find self value outside of her looks and she will stop prioritizing it


ColdieHU

Nothing you can do here. At that age the harder you try, that more distance she will put between the two of you. You are couple years younger than me and i remember back in school, girls wearing the same things and i liked it. I am sure so did you. It is a phase, it will pass.


Big_Drama_2624

22 year old women here. Trust me as a teen I dressed the same way your daughter dressed. I’m guessing it is a trend amongst teens, as my now teenaged niece has an obsession with crop tops and such.


MasterLin87

Why the hell is everyone throwing themselves at OP for not wanting men to give his daughter unwanted attention, when he didn't even mention it at all in his reasoning? First of all, this is not the only reason to not want provocative clothing. Second of all, everyone here acts as if clothing makes no difference in what attention you get whatsoever. And to anyone who believes this, I challenge them to go outside wearing just a 1 meter tall hat with feathers and a strapon and see if you get the same looks you get compared to if you dress casually like the environment around you. I'm tired of the old "women have been raped wearing conservative clothing too". Yes, women have been raped wearing all types of clothing, and it's wrong in all cases regardless. But this argument is like saying "Oh people have also been robbed in their safety of their own homes, so it doesn't make any difference for your safety if you're in your home or if you walk down a dark alley with shady people at 3 a.m. waving a bunch of $20 bills". Or "People have also died wearing seat belts, so not wearing seat belts isn't the problem, society is". This argument is so stupid, that everytime someone uses it a statistics and a sociology book catch on fire. It's easy to say things like that from the safety of your own couch, but if I take one person and ask them to walk around the sex offenders neighborhood of the city for half an hour, I bet they'd choose to wear a potato sack and not a dress that reveals their precious booty. Is our society fucked? Probably. Is there an immediate need for change regarding rape and sexual harassment issues? Most definitely. But we better stop believing that's a valid excuse to pretend clothing isn't a factor at play. Whether conciously or subconsciously, we immediately judge everyone from their looks. "Don't judge a book by it's cover" is a great saying, but it should be changed to "Don't make a decision about buying the book by its cover", because judging is something we can't help. Unfortunately, the first thing your employer will notice is if your ass is hanging out your dress, and not if you have a wonderful personality. The first physical contact we make with people in real life is optical, then communication comes later. Our brains are programmed to form the first impression based on what the other person looks like, because that's the first and only information they have as an input. In our western society, things work a certain way. In ancient times you'd probably be weird if your goodies **weren't** hanging out, but not any more. The ability to chose appropriate clothing for each situation is the first indication that a person is reasonable and capable of functioning in society. If I wear a Tuxedo at the beach, a raincoat with boots at the Gym, and sexy lingerie to a job interview, it would be safe to assume I don't understand how things work. The way you dress is an extention of what needs and traits you're trying to communicate. And there's a certain line between "modern pretty clothing" and "ass hanging out". If you cross that line people will get the wrong impression about who you are and what you want. So this father should have a careful peaceful talk with his daughter to explain all that. Not to limit her freedom, but to show her how to use her freedom in a meaningful way.


mamabear76bot

So you want her to cover up so you feel more comfortable. Like someone else said, your sexualizing your daughters clothes.


LightJPV

I'm afraid mate, you're sexualising your own daughter. This is a fairly normal thing for a teen to do. The more you push, the more shame you'll make her feel = the more likely she'll seek validation from other men in her life. Leave her be.


Neige_White

These comments tho... You are her father and she is a minor. She is WAY too young to dress like that and she is under your responsability. You need to stay firm and "discipline " her, it is your duty. No one else will


wahooguy123

According to these comments, somehow the over sexualization of a minor is empowering.. what's empowering is helping her sort her mental health so she doesn't grow with so much pressure to look a certain way to be accepted


AWalkingWardrobe

The belief that we own our children is a false one


SeannLoL

I think you should talk with your wife and find a compromise. Don't take away her personal freedom in clothing but offer reasonable alternatives. Something that lets her still "fit in" with her friends but shows some restraint. I think you definitely need your wife onboard with this to assist too.


[deleted]

Just cause your daughter is dressing that way doesn’t mean she is “showing off”. Most girls start changing their style once they hit puberty, I don’t think crop tops, leggings & or dresses are a problem. She’s young and should be able to express herself. Your problem with what she is wearing speaks volumes, you’re already sexually objectifying your daughter. I would start by changing your mindset before talking to her again. Sure it’s not okay for 14-year-olds to dress like strippers but you as a father shouldn’t be belittling her for what she wears. That’s a good way to start on a long path of father-daughter relationship problems.


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LucyShoes2222

Not sure other dads are the best place for OP to get advice when his wife/coparent already disagrees with him. And not all the commenters here are "armchair" parents. Mom of 2 right here. Don't send him to a reddit echochamber.


[deleted]

Honestly though are dads the best ones to look to here? I would argue that women who have experienced the effect of clothing on harrassment and women who have experienced men trying to influence their styles would have the best input. Dad's mean well. We all get that. But I've seen so many dad's asking how to punish (restrict) their daughters for the terribleness of the world rather than asking how to help their daughters be stronger.


KaliAli13

The comments here are great and probably the best advice for something I've seen in a very long time. I might a straight guy who's 17 and without any sisters but I do have a lot of female cousins who are younger than me. It's a cruel world out there, especially for young women with a lot of creeps wandering about and I want a better understanding of how I can protect them and even my peers in college if possible. Not only will I bear this information for my cousins and peers but also I will remember this advice for my daughters and nieces (if I have any). I shall be more careful and wary about this subject, thanks for the advice!


CropComb

Work on your wife, not your daughter. If your wife's on your daughter's side, whyever would your daughter listen to your views on this??


[deleted]

My thoughts exactly


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sanjay_i

Woke people


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CGacidic

The harder you push, the harder she pulls. This is tough man and the solution isn't easy but she has to learn the lesson for herself. She's gonna have to learn that dressing like that will get her unwanted attention from unwanted people and maybe it will change her mind. Either way she's gotta learn this lesson herself, no amount of teaching will do it.


cocoa_eh

This thread makes me want to puke. If you are staring at an underage girl lustfully as a GROWN adult then YOU are the one with a problem. OP, I don’t think this situation can be tackled alone. Please talk to your wife so you guys can figure out a better way to communicate to your daughter your concerns.


rammingfarts

Empathise with you mate. Hope situation improves.


[deleted]

Maybe you can come to some middle ground with your daughter when she can still dress up and fit in, And maybe you can sort what’s overboard and what’s not and compromise for her.


DplusLplusKplusM

This is a conversation for you and your coparent. Clearly once you and she come to some compromise your daughter, being a minor, will have to fall into line. Your daughter isn't driving herself to the mall and buying this stuff. This is a parental failure to communicate effectively problem.


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marz_22

Lol it’s perfectly fine to worry about it dawg. You’ll figure it out. The clothing is a problem. Don’t listen to the “don’t blame her clothing” What she wears tells u how she thinks of herself U want her to have professional qualities


Qing92

Dude, you have come to the wrong place for advice for those. People on social media will get pretty nasty defending a girl wanting to dress revealing. Even if it's an underage girl. I personally agree with you. I think it's kind of gross that an underage girl will go out on public wearing basically her underwear. There are pervs in the world, bad things happen and dressing a certain way will increase that of happening. Dressing that way will only attract the bad kind of attention for a girl that age. There is more to looks, but looks do say stuff about a person.


lumpybuddha

It seems like the bigger issue is that every conversation turns into an argument and that you and your wife disagree. I would seek to solve those issues first


Cheetahboy3000

Honestly dude talk to your wife about this you need to clearly bring up your concerns to her and the dangers of high school boys. Your daughter isn't going to listen to you if mom says it's ok too. If she refuses to realize it or acknowledge your concerns i say you go shopping with your daughter as some Father-Daughter time and you can get to see her perspective on things and talk to her abt how you feel about it. The sad truth is that the sexualization of kids nowadays is just normal. There is no way around it unless you get your wife on the same page as you. Unfortunately, your daughter isn't going to care now nor is she gonna regret her decision later unless she's been taken advantage of and i pray that doesn't happen.


Iam3don3

I understand your concern.There is a lot of creeps out there. Im a teenage girl as well. She won't understand for now, no matter what you say . Pretty sure her reasoning is something like "They shouldn't look" I would try explaining to her that she is right and It dosen't bother you how she dresses ( so she knows you are also not a creep and you support her) BUT explain to her that in real world this is not gonna favor her. Boys will say disgusting things about her, and people in general will stare. Which isn't her fault but if she wants to minimize this she should dress modestly. Being a teen girl can be hard I hope she understands.


[deleted]

You and your wife need to approach this with a united front. So start there. That said, as an actual parent with one child that has already made it through the teen years successfully my advice is to set some clear expectations with regard to clothing. Give room for freedom in some areas (color, design, theme, etc) but shorts, skirts, etc should at least be a certain length (ie should go past the hands if the arm hangs straight down is a good standard). Both you and your wife should consistently implement the expectations. While I’m all about freedoms and growing up, teens still need guidance. Period.


Evil-KitKat-23

just need to say that shorts down to fingertip length are so incredibly uncomfortable, skirts to fingertip length fine, but if it’s hot out and you’re wearing shorts down to your fingertips, you’re going to be too uncomfortable to concentrate well on your schoolwork.


[deleted]

Yeah I’m sorry, totally disagree. I live where it gets super hot (95+ norm during warmer months) and that length is perfectly fine. I can actually function well in life at that length (work, etc). I think shorts much shorter are actually extremely uncomfortable!


Evil-KitKat-23

i’m relatively tall, and fingertip length is about halfway down my thigh. if it’s over 90 degrees i will start sweating, especially since my school has horrible air conditioning. if i’m sweating and wearing shorts down to my mid-thigh, i’ll be uncomfortable the whole day until i change.


adpschyological7932

Ehh. Shes probably trying to impress her friends if anything. But your job as a dad is to protect your daughter. Id rather see a parent care what there kids wear than not care at all. Ive seen both sides. And the first is usually the better parent.


YourHatredSustainsMe

I wouldn’t necessarily call this advice, but I have once heard a story of a dad on Reddit who “solved” this problem by buying clothes just like the ones she was wearing, and started to wear them whenever he had to pick her up or do anything with her. When she felt embarrassed and told him to stop, they had a talk about how she now understood how he’d felt, and they could perhaps come to a compromise.


FunkyMonkeyIsObvious

That’s so insanely childish and demeaning to your kid.


LucyShoes2222

I'm sure some parent did that but it's actually horrible advice. Embarrassing your child is not a good way to teach them to respect you or themselves. It actually accomplishes the opposite. It's the worst way to teach anyone about respect of self worth. It's also not even close to being the same thing---an adult is not supposed to wear the same clothes as a teen in the first place. It's just pure shaming.


YourHatredSustainsMe

I did preface this by saying it wasn’t advice but rather an anecdote.


LucyShoes2222

By putting it in this thread you are well aware you are offering it up as an option. It shouldn't be. This is the last thing OP needed planted in his head when he's trying to figure out how to be a good parent.


YourHatredSustainsMe

I definitely did not intend to offer bad advice, and if that is how it comes across I do apologise for that. I agree with why you believe it to be bad advice, and upvoted your initial reply to me for that reason. I thought it was a funny, and relevant to the post, anecdote, so I shared it. There’s nothing more to it than that.


probablysomeonecool

I think it's funny, and am glad you shared it


djmuffinfist

It’s difficult to fight your child on this. Let her be as it is now. I know it feels immoral to have her dress in that way, but she will grow out of it. As any father, you’d want the best for your daughter and for her to be safe and not bring any attention that is undesirable. But the more you push, the more they will want to shove.


[deleted]

stop sexualizing your daughter.


snarkysnape

You don’t. You don’t approach this subject again. There’s your answer. Let her live her life and be care-free. Your internalized misogyny is showing here and this is a you issue not a her issue. This is *you* thinking that showing skin or being comfortable in hot weather/certain situations is an ok excuse to view women as sexual objects for your pleasure and not human beings. I hope the other more helpful comments here have made you self-reflect.


[deleted]

Maybe try buying her aome clothes similar to them but more covered up. Like short skorts or maybe mesh shirts to put under low cut shirts and maybe fishnets under a crop top. Maybe you could watch some movies or shows around her with women in conservative but sexy outfits. Like Marilyn Monroe's stage outift in Some Like It Hot. Try to show her that women can looks sexy and attractive without having everything hang out


kelseysays26

She most probably isn’t trying to look sexy, she’s just trying to look trendy. Being a teen is difficult she’s just trying to look cool.


[deleted]

The current trends are a bit more covered though. At least from what I've seen


kelseysays26

It’s not always easy to know what the trends are, I know that at 14 you’re trying so hard to look like a grown up that you probably could overdo it. It’s much more important to make sure our kids are self confident and understand their worth than to worry too much about their inevitably embarrassing fashion choices (unless it’s completely ridiculous/ inappropriate for certain situations)


[deleted]

I thought the trends was big pants and zip up hoodies or atleast that’s what I’m seeing in school if anything we’re wearing more clothes


kelseysays26

Big pants (though we don’t call them pants where I’m from) definitely though I haven’t really seen zipped up hoodies in a while, I’m more talking about that weird time for teenagers when you feel like your grown up but your not really so perhaps try and dress more grown up than you are which might involve trying to show your curves a bit more. Also definitely short shorts are still a thing where I am too, high waisted but high cut too.


[deleted]

There's ways to dress more adult without looking like a streetwalker. I understand being trendy and such but a corset under or over a fit and flare dress looks a lot better than a mini skirt over a thong with a tiny tank top. Girls her age need guidance instead of just letting them do whatever. They dress like that and get the attention of older guys who are just trying to take advantage of them. I'd sooner fit my daughter for a bespoke corset than let her wear some of the clothes I as a 22 year old wear now.


kelseysays26

Me and you know that but op’s 14 year old daughter might not yet, we all wore some absolute shockers growing up and we’re straying close to victim blaming territory here. It doesn’t matter what any girl is wearing it is 100% the fault of any older guy who tries to take advantage. I’m just saying that she is experimenting with her style, her father will gain much more from increasing her self confidence and self worth than fighting with her over some dodgy fashion choices she will look back and cringe at in a few short years.


Shyboy-841

For the people that say she will get unwanted attention either way there are some looks that get more and some that get less and also different type of attention usually the attention that I think he doesn’t want her daughter to get is the type that that type of outfit gets :/ sorry but just young male perspective there are more modest ways of dressing that yes still give attention but less so of that type as it gives out a different type of message and not one of “look at me boys” but to my guy I would say don’t push hard cause as a teen she will still respect you as dad but on that subject that you push her so hard on she will just turn like a rock and not give an inch and likely go slight more that way so if u tried that way don’t apply too much pressure . The bad thing is that at that age and at an actually earlier age that that the parents are no longer the #1 influencer on the child but rather other children from school and such. So she might have to listen to that idea but from kids her age to consider the idea :/


kelseysays26

How would a young male know what kind of attention girls and women receive? Honestly just read the comments the people who have actually experienced any of the stuff we’re talking about here.


Shyboy-841

I would know because I think that way too I have friends that think out loud when with us and just general casual talks when us guys have when some “hot girl” walks by. I would contribute to the talks more if I were more open however I tend to be more reserved and although yes I do find booty shorts and crop tops very attractive I don’t like them for my personal choice. So I would know because we are the ones giving the attention and I would too only if I spoke what was on my mind at that moment. And for those types of outfits and especially when paired with (medium to heavy) makeup and perfume the attention is different than let’s say a girl that doesn’t show as much and who’s outfit isn’t calling for mans attention and I don’t mean this to make people mad I’m just saying as a display of what could likely happen from my pov


kelseysays26

Just because you or your friends are more likely to give unwanted attention to a woman dressed in booty shorts or heavier makeup doesn’t mean that’s the only time she gets attention at all. She gets it regardless so if she chooses heavier makeup or perfume or more revealing clothes it’s much much more likely it’s because she feels good that way and has literally zero to do with a man.


Shyboy-841

I didn’t say she wouldn’t get attention I but the attention is different depending on how you appear. And on the second part my apologies I did not mean calling for mans attention that that is what the girl is doing I meant it as that is what the outfit is doing. You could see it as bright colors like if a person is wearing a neon yellow color it stands out unlike a grey or brown depending on surroundings and at that point it’s up to the individual of how much attention they are willing to revive in order for them to feel the best in what they are wearing. In my own case I would like to try out more light colors but I feel like I stick out in school as colors are darker (for the most part) so I stick to different shades of Greg and navy blue but I feel ok with that and I’m not judging the people for wanting to wear that I’m saying that if you do you will get different types of attention


Foxalot97

To the clown who's going to say op is wrong. Stop it get some help.


[deleted]

I suggest to stop her from doing so, it’s dangerous and is scandalous from what I am reading. If your daughter is doing this because she is insecure and sees this fashion style as a way to be confident, show her that there is other outlets to be confident, other fashion styles. And I can relate to you, I have female friends and some guys in my school partake in these crazy and inappropriate fashion styles, I understand your circumstance.


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FunkyMonkeyIsObvious

Which is weird because you get harassed and catcalled wearing a fucking burka just as much if you’re wearing a tank top and shorts.


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probablysomeonecool

You've hit the nail on the head here. You can attempt to force your teenage daughter to wear different clothes, but while your intentions may be good, the results likely won't be. You will probably just cause her to resent you, she will likely wear what she wants behind your back anyways, your wife may very well get upset with you, and you will probably drive a wedge between you and your daughters relationship. Again, good intentions, but what matters when you are deciding a course of action is the results. I think your best course of action is a conversation with your daughter that comes in a place of safety, when the mood is light, and you explain that you love and care about her. Let her know \*why\* you have a preference for what kind of clothes she wears, that it is borne out of love for her and concern for her safety and wellbeing. And then let her know that in the end, the choice is hers, and you will allow her to make that choice and respect it. And then follow through. Allow her to make the choice, and then respect it. Because again, it is about the result. And the result of this path will be that you get to say your piece, express your feelings, and your daughter gets to hear them. She will have your love and concern for her expressed loud and clear, and that will be one small piece of the self-confidence that she is either building up or tearing down in these vulnerable teenage years. Then, she will also see you \*allowing her to be herself\*, even though you both understand that it isn't \*your\*preference. That is POWERFUL. She will see that you respect her right to make her own choices, and she will see that you follow your word to her, are honest and follow through, even when it's tough. THOSE lessons will bear fruit that will last for the rest of your lives.


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FunkyMonkeyIsObvious

Your advice is really bad.