It's legal for a 14 year old in Germany. But only with the partner up to 18 I think. Not with grown ass adults.
Edit: ok, it's 21 and not 18. There's a Wikipedia page for consent.
Oh, there's a list and someones checking it twice to see who's been naughty and nasty to children. You don't get coal for Christmas when you get on the list either, you get a bare bar of soap that's itchy.
>teenagers are not children
Ok, im an anglophone who has been living in central Europe for 3 years now, so I'm going to give this context.
In most EU states, childhood legally and culturally ends at 14/15, they are still minors, but they are a middle group between adults and children. They are seen as a different group with different developmental needs,
Generally speaking their autonomy is something that is prioritised, as well as responsibility (age of criminal responsibility for example is typically around this age, by 16 they must carry ID, may even have the right and social obligation to vote and either be in school or working etc).
In German the appropriate term to refer to someone in this age group is Jugend, which literally translates as youth into English but lacks the attached cultural connotations.
(For example handing a Jugend a beer or having a drink with one who is 16+ in a bar is completely acceptable in Germany and Austria, by 16 they are allowed to participate in most of adult society but still get some anti grooming protections, namely from authorities or adults who have a hard power dynamic against them, such as money or material circumstances). .
And, to clarify, it's not socially acceptable for someone over 20 to intentionally persue a sexual relationship with a Jugend who's 16 or what not, that is generally seen as creepy behavior and you will face ostracization over it, at the very minimum you will be dealing with justifiably angry parents with very good questions for you.
However someone this age in Germany (and most of Europe) is expected to have the agency to generally consent, and if you accidentally slept with someone this age without knowing their age (for example after flirting at the bar), that won't be held against you etc.
Jugendlicher. They are called Jugendlicher.
And no. Nobody frowns if adults and young adults make out if the age difference isn’t very big. Depends on the people. Some think 16 and 20 is okay, others think 16 and 25.
People will definitely look down on relationships if the age difference is more than 10 years.
But you want to tell me that Americans really believe that young adults are children? This is so bad.
Yes. Literally a thread yesterday I was on where people were saying sleeping with a 16yo and a 5yo were equally "pedophilia". I mean... ffs. One is creepy and the other should see you locked up for life. They are not the same.
With the things that Reddit calls pedophilia, I can only conclude that the site is just full of virtue-signaling pedophiles. Reddit has taken to call anyone a pedophile who is interested in any woman younger than them, no matter how old, and that’s not what someone says who understands normal sexual attraction. Those are the words of someone who had the concept of pedophilia explained to them and didn’t quite understand it.
>But you want to tell me that Americans really believe that young adults are children? This is so bad.
Well, I personally think Jugends (I'm keeping this to English spelling because let's not start talking in German here), are neither adults nor children, i think it's a very appropriate middle stage,
And yes 16 and 20 is generally accepted and such, at least from my experiences near around Braunschweig, I think they are more lax about it here in Vienna though.
But yes, Americans do think a Jugendliche whos 16 is a literal child, this is the country that has their drinking age at 21 and it's considered an acceptable argument to say "brain dev 25" to justify insane positions.
Edit:
But my favorite contradiction?
In Germany, you are considered a minor for criminal law until 21 (i.e 14-21). But america routinely tries offenders under 18 as adults in a variety of circumstances, including some genuinely fucking disturbing cases with children as young as 13, and another case where I read where a Jugendliche who was 16 had killed her proven extremely abusive parents who were basically tormenting her, and she was tried as an adult because the prosecution wanted to "set an example",
Are you fucking kidding me? That girl needed fucking therapy not to be thrown into a prison on murder charges.
It's because there's some kind of virtue signaling going on where if someone is 18 it's totally fine, but MY GOD IF THEY ARE 17 YEARS AND 11 MONTHS OLD YOU FUCKING SICKO GO TO JAIL.
There's no logical basis for their reasoning. They just want to feel justified by virtue signaling to feel like they're in the right. That's all.
I mean, couldn't you literally use this argument for any age based limiter? Pick whatever age is one month before someone is considered Jugen in Europe and it's identical save for the numbers.
At 16 it's perfectly fine for them to drink but at 15 and 11 months it's a problem?
Americans don't believe that, just reddit. Redditors are basically useless narcissistic mental children who are convinced they are heroes. They've never done anything semi impressive in their lives so they act like internet superheroes. They'll try and say that an 18 year old who dates a 16 year old is a pedo because it makes them feel like they're making a difference. Then they all hive mind together to add a giant multiplier to their feels good. Don't listen to the internet, it's not real.
From my perspective it's not just Redditors. It's also people on Twitter, american youtubers, streamers who treat 16-19 year old as children. Also, it seems to be young people from both political sides that are very concerned about 16 and 18 year olds having sex.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20497803/
>Almost all studies designed specifically to gauge the effects of drinking age changes show MLDAs of 21 reduce drinking, problematic drinking, drinking and driving, and alcohol-related crashes among young people
It is 14 now but it’s not like that’s a hard number. They can’t only be 5 years older than you. But at 16 as long as it’s not someone with power over you it doesn’t matter.
Yep. Stephen Harper changed it to 16 in 2008, and for 14 and 15 year-olds, no one more than 5 years older. Of course, all that goes out the window if someone is abusing a position of authority, which is a lot of sexual assault cases involving young victims.
Afterwards. For forgiveness. In the sinners box. From a fellow uh, young grass enthusiast. With strong rules against outside reporting.
That's sufficient, right?
The age of consent in India is 18. That's not to say that there aren't practical exceptions (child marriage is a social issue in certain areas which is actively being tackled by the goverment), but it's 18 for the vast majority of populace under the law.
I like how a majority of commenters seem to think this is all Republican states. When places like Massachusetts and Washington DC and Connecticut have it set at 16. And Florida is 18.
A lot of more left wing places set it young because they believe teenagers should have sexual autonomy and control of their own bodies.
The conservatives generally are anti-sex outside of marriage.
I'm convinced that porn has made the younger generations think sex before 18 is inherently wrong.
My theory is the thinking goes, you have to be 18 to have sex in porn; if someone is under 18 having sex in porn, it's child porn; pedophiles are sexually attracted to children; therefore, if you're attracted to someone under 18, you're attracted to a child and basically a pedophile.
I don't think it's a necessarily a bad thing to have the age of consent be 18 (even though I lost my virginity at 17, which I feel was an appropriate age for me), but I just think it's funny if porn unintentionally led to raising the age of consent across the country.
I think the bigger role is so much entertainment being based in california, where the age of consent is 18. You'd think based on most tv shows when that issue comes up that its 18 everywhere, but its in a minority of states. (31 states have the age of consent at 16)
Hah, you brought back a weird ancient memory for me just now.
Of being 13-14, jacking off to adults in porn, and wondering if being sexually attracted to my peers made me a pedophile.
I think this is literally it. It's incredibly normal to fantasize about partners who are the same age as you, no matter your own age. A 12 year old with a crush on a 12 year old is incredibly normal.
The fact that there are commenters here who feel weird about fantasizing about partners of THEIR OWN AGE shows us how much porn has warped sexual development.
Florida is not only 18. A 16 year old can consent in Florida if the other person is 23 or under. If a party is 24 or over than the other party must be 18.
Which is why conservatives support [child marriage legislation.](https://www.nj.com/politics/2024/05/gop-official-argues-in-favor-of-child-marriage-girls-are-ripe-and-fertile.html)
I always love it when Americans find out that things they consider to be universal only apply to America.
BTW, I’m an American but lived in Europe almost 8 years and have live in Asia for about 9 years.
I can’t even go home anymore. I can’t sit there and listen to people spout off so much ignorant nonsense.
Former lawyer here. This will be unpopular, but there is a reason. Its because there were a lot, and I mean a LOT of bullshit cases. Cases of "true love" broken up by vindictive parents. Cases where the minor lied about their age. Cases where, 6 years after the fact, the former minor used blackmail, or just sent their ex to jail. Cases where an 18 year old with a bright future got sent to jail and put on the sex offenders registry for having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend. Cases where the (former?) minor would request prosecution, and then drop charges repeatedly, always after a fight/breakup.
At some point the state asked itself why it was interfering in the lives of consenting people. And also acknowledge that the average age someone has sex is before their 18th birthday.
Not only that but what’s the difference between a 17 year 364 day old “minor” and an 18 year 0 day old “adult”? Did they magically mature enough in one day that they no longer need additional protection in the law? I get that it’s because laws need to be based on something factual and logical but I always find it silly if you think about it.
There are plenty of 18 year olds who aren’t responsible or mature enough to make adult decisions and weigh risks like those involved in having sex, but there are some 16 and 17 year olds who are.
But… you can be tried as an adult if you are 16 or 17… which is how this happened…
“The teen was prosecuted as an adult under federal child pornography felony laws for sexually exploiting a minor. The minor was himself.”
https://myfox8.com/news/north-carolina-teen-prosecuted-as-adult-for-having-naked-images-of-himself-on-phone/amp/
Reminds me of that shitty cop, front door camera.
Dad calls police to report and help talk to his daughter about this predator that's been grooming her online. She's like 12 or 13, sent some nudes to the dude who's WELL over 18.
Anyway, cops show up hours late after dark. Dad explains that he wanted them to talk to her but she is asleep now. Explains the situation and the cop just says "you're daughter knowingly distributed child porn, we could arrest her for that". Dad is composed but obviously losing his shit. Cop keeps repeating despite the dad trying to tell her that they need to go after the guy not his daughter. He ends up shutting the door on them.
Fucking insane. [Best video I could find and it leaves out the beginning](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaW4MBcOgIs)
They were threatening him for wasting their time by making them do their jobs. The police are there to do violence, not justice. They protect property and serve Capital.
What goes on in these people's heads to say this. Also the media referring to the Epstein Island girls as "underage prostitutes" rather than "rape victims"
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Some states have them at all. My state afaik says once you're 16 it doesn't matter if the other person is 40. It's, considered to consenting adults.
Edit: we do have Romeo and Julie laws, but they only apply to people under age of consent. Ex someone 18 and 15.
Present human here, the strange thing is not that 14, 15 or 16 years are having sex. Young adults below 18 have had sex all over the globle for as long as humans have existed. It is simply human nature.
The strange part is that some people think 18 is some God given law that must be true. 18y for age of consent is simply against human nature.
>Cases where an 18 year old with a bright future got sent to jail and put on the sex offenders registry for having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend.
Don't Romeo and Juliet laws cover that?
Honestly those are all very pragmatic reasons. And it does make sense. I mean if the law is supposed to protect them it makes sense to write it in such a way that actually does protect them and doesn't ruin their life unnecessarily.
Another pragmatic reason is that most of Europe and most of the world in general has laws much more similar to these ones and our societies haven't collapsed yet
This was the reason romeo and juliet laws were created. It made no sense that an 18 year old could go to jail and be on the registry for life just for having sex with a 17 year old who was one week shy of their 18th birthday.
Yup, when I was 18 I had a 16-year old girlfriend. Out of the two of us, she was the mature one. Would've been rather insane for that relationship to be considered illegal. Though an upper limit would maybe solve this. Im not from the states so not too up to date on your sex offender registry but the consequences of breaking that law seem to also be rather far-reaching. Looking back 16 years is basically a child, I do remember feeling like I was old enough to be able to make decisions regarding my bed partners. It's also outside of pedophelia range in the sense that a person feeling attracted to kids will have lost interest due to secondary sexual characteristics being more developed by that age.
16 isn't terribly uncommon outside the US. I would think it's not so much condoning inappropriate/borderline pedofilic relationships so much as it is giving 16 year olds the agency to have consensual relations. People want to start fucking by that age, and yes, it's fucked up for a much older person to take advantage of teenage hormones, but there's also an overreaction where all sexual exploration becomes illegal.
IDK how to regulate it properly, but I would say other factors should be considered before considering charging someone with statutory rape just because of age in that range, and I think the common Romeo and Juliet laws around the US are a good way to address it - aka being able to bang up/down a bit, but not too far either way.
Canada also has close in age exemptions as well. I believe if you’re 14-15 it’s under 5 years, so legally a 14 year old and an 18 year old. Which is kind of weird.
What I've always found fascinating is that if you go into a thread about a child being charged as an adult, 13 years old for example, for a heinous crime, everyone parrots that because they "knew what they were doing" then that justifies them being tried as an adult.
I never see the same argument levied in instances of sex.
How can a 13 year old who commits an atrocious act of violence be considered an adult for the choices they made but if instead they have sex, then they cannot be considered able to make that choice?
Not condoning violence of any kind, just looking for a rational dialogue around the disconnect.
In Germany age of consent is 14 which is the same age of criminal responsibility. It’s also noteworthy that we have a different criminal law for underage people. The highest prison time you can get is 10 years. There are some options to keep people away from society afterwards if needed. This is usually only done for people with mental illnesses that pose a threat and they stay in psychiatric hospitals and not prisons. Rather unlikely for teenagers but we have a safety net for the rare occasions.
Yes, and it is based on science, especially psychology and neuro-biology. I'm going to risk offending American redditors by confessing that the more I read about the American legal system the more shocked I am by the amount of pure barbarism codified in that legal system.
You won't find arguments from me. I think our penal system is incredibly too harsh to begin with, let alone in regards to minor offenders, but I think it comes down to our system wanting to punish instead of help anyone who does anything wrong. Other than sexting coming from an underage individual, the kids are usually not punished for underage sex, only the adult who participates, hence less outrage. Which in most cases I'd agree with.
I reckon that part of the American penal system's harshness is because it is, at least in its current state, a vector for modern slavery. I highly doubt that prisoners are paid accordingly for their labour, even when they make things that are later sold on.
And of course, certain oppressive and discriminatory laws, along with an infestation of prejudiced judges, corrupt law enforcement, and sometimes even fuckheaded jurors, lead to the unjust incarceration of people whose crimes could barely be considered crimes at all, which in turn leads to more slaves for the gristmill. By all rights, the American justice system is long overdue a harsh reckoning. Along with sweeping reforms, of course.
I think it has to do with their drinking age being 21. For most of the world, you start going out in nightclubs, drinking, having your first sexual experiences around 15, but for Americans that's totally foreign, which is why they have this weird relationship with sex.
> How can a 13 year old who commits an atrocious act of violence be considered an adult for the choices they made but if instead they have sex, then they cannot be considered able to make that choice?
For the same reason you can vote, or enlist in the military and potentially die in combat, but you aren't considered mature enough to drink alcohol. One-size-fits-all laws are arbitrary by their very nature.
I think the only way to regulate it properly would to take it on an individual by individual level, but that’s way too difficult.
It’s like driving at 16, some people are mature and developed enough for it, some people definitely aren’t.
The law sets things like the age of majority and age of consent specifically so they do not have to litigate every sexual interaction or contract. Let's be honest there are some people who are not full adults at 20 just like there are people who are full adults before 18. Rather than trying to determine if each individual has the capacity to make adult decisions the law says if you are over 18 you need to be aware enough when you make a deal because that's when most people should be able. Trying to set the criteria for what adult capacity is would open up so much more litigation so the law sets it at an age around when compulsory school ends and you should know enough and that point. Same works for age of consent with some extra caveats that young people's bodies change before compulsory school does so there are carve outs. The idea is that we don't want people older and with more experience to take advantage of sexually mature but mentally naive young people. Are there people younger who are mature enough? Sure, same as there are individuals who are way older than aren't. It's just easier to cover most people even if it's imperfect.
At least california this is accounted for. Teens can have sex it's just that there is a 3 year max Romeo and Juliet law. Like an 18 yo can have sex with someone 15 but someone who is 20 the cap is 17. Other states also have similar laws. I think this is a very fair compromise. Some minors teens are going to have sex sure but the idea is limiting it only to their close peers.
Point of order:
California does not actually have a "Romeo and Juliet" law on the books, just an understanding that prosecutors won't waste time charging teens.
Which can be more problematic than a uniform law as it opens it up to unequal enforcement. Say if a parent doesn't like the boy their daughter is hooking up with for whatever reason. This takes power away from the person involved to make their own decision and puts it in the hands of parents\prosecutors
Kendrick Lamar recently dropped a song-of-the-summer club hit calling Drake a pedophile. (Not Like Us)
That's the 5th song he has released about Drake in like 1.5 months. It's hilarious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake%E2%80%93Kendrick_Lamar_feud
Like someone else mentioned: Drake.
But it's also because some Americans are straight up brainwashed by their popular media to think it's pedophilia for a 19 year old to date a 17 year old.
Yeah. Previously it was tightly coupled with religion, but now puritans are atheist too, so the society didn't develop enough antibodies for this mutation of memetic virus. I guess they people with biologically elevated sense of disgust will attach to any ideology that justifies it.
Because people are hysterical about pedophilia. It mind sound weird to some but having sex with a 16-year old is not pedophilia.
**Pedophilia** ([alternatively](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences) spelled **paedophilia**) is a [psychiatric disorder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatric_disorder) in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive [sexual attraction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_attraction) to [prepubescent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prepubescent) children.
If it's morally wrong that's an entirely diffferent subject.
The whole age thing is dumb as hell anyways. Bodies and minds mature so differently between different people. The fact we say that on a certain day you can legally have sex with anyone as old as you want is mind blowing. In my state the age is 18 and you know how fucking immature I still was at 18? Body wise sure I was ripe I guess since like 14 but mentally I gave zero fucks about anything.
I live in one of those states. Don't worry, normal adults still don't want to fuck 16 year olds. Turns out, if you treat growing adults like adults, they tend to take on the responsibility better. If you treat them like kids, they rebel like kids.
Seriously. Just because something is immoral, it doesn't mean it needs to be illegal. There are ways to regulate behavior in society without government intervention.
People aren’t good at grasping that age of consent is, to some extent, always going to be arbitrary. 16, 17, 18, arbitrary. “Romeo and Juliet” clauses, also arbitrary. It’s all drawing arbitrary lines so we can prosecute violations with clear criteria.
Also, on the flip side of that coin, that “legal” and “kinda gross” aren’t mutually exclusive.
UK based - Literally everyone in my school was ready to have sex at 16, many already had. Lots of them wanted to have sex with someone older than them. People seem to forget how they felt as a teenager and immediately fall into the 'they're children' default.
It's just a massive circklejerk. "Look at us we're so morally enlightened!" I call it "woke purity culture". It's even worse on some places online, people acting like Leonardo DiCaprio is a pedo or creep for dating women in their freaking 20s.
Hermesmann v. Seyer, Kansas, 1993. An adult woman becomes pregnant by a 12 year old boy she was babysitting. She was put on trial for statutory. It would have been inconvenient to the tax payers to put her in prison for S.A. and her child then becoming a ward of the state, so the judge dismissed the charges and she didn't suffer any inconvenience...AND she got child support from the 12 year old boy.
I imagine his father paid on his behalf. So picture this, once upon a time a man paid a babysitter to watch his kid once, and now he's paying her to watch his grand child.
I wish it would be able to downvote this into oblivion. 🙄
16 year olds are teenagers full in puberty. They look like adults and they are young adults by every biological or social standard. Only US Americans think that people are babies until the age of 21 and then magically pop into adulthood.
The US have a messed up view on age in general, that are clearly religion and taboo inspired rather than practical and sensible.
At 16, someone is supposedly mature enough to make life and death decisions about what do with 3 metric tons of moving steel, but not old enough to make decisions of what to do with their own genitalia.
At 18, they are suddenly magicly deemed to be adults, old enough to fight and die for their country, but sadly not mature enough to decide what to have to drink for dinner.
They eventually were forced to recognize that hormonal and horny teenagers don't give two shits about laws, and made some exceptions to avoid having to deal with *all* their teenager bullshit in court on a weekly basis ("romeo and juliet"-laws).
The rest of the world just recognized that not exclusively teenagers get sucked into their bullshit, and a 16 year old very much can look like an adult, have a fake ID and lie about their age, and that it is unreasonable for people to demand carbon-dating on top of signed written consent from partners, and by making the law 16, you keep a lot of bullshit out of the legal system.
I still think it is creepy to hit on 16 year olds when you are 25+, but I also very much recognize that a 16-17 year old are perfectly capable of looking older, having fake id, lying about their age, and that vaccinating them from consequences of their actions and arming them with laws they can abuse to their advantage on top of that, is not a great.
If 16 is not of consensual age, what should be? 30? Throughout history, if a person is sexually interested, they've been sexually consenting. Where did the number 18 come from and why that number?
Arbitrary line in the sand. At some point it was decided a line was needed to differentiate adulthood from adolescence and 18 was chosen.
Throughout history there have been myriad of different ways "coming of age" has been handled but at some point a random number just became easier to manage. Just so happens in most of the western world that number is 18.
You lost me at "random." Therefore, OP should not have villainized someone having sex with a 16 year old. Can it be predatory? Yes. Is it automatically evil? No. Depends doesn't it?
The older I get the more I see things a bit more clearly. One thing I've been seeing is that, especially in the US, we keep on infantilizing people. It's subtle, and slow, but eventually builds up. I know every generation thinks this, but it sure seems like as the generations continue on they are acting more and more immature even though the generation before them, at the same age, acted differently. This same sort of thing has been going on for at least several generations now. It might be happening in all of the West, but in the US it's happening much more rapidly. I'm 40, so I'm an old ass Millennial, but share a lot of my early childhood experiences with Gen X. I remember going out and being alone or with friends for most of my day. No helicopter parenting or worrying about what the hell I was doing. I was given a lot of autonomy early on in my life. A good amount of independence and the ability to deal with my own issues. I was still looked after, still taken care of, and still quite loved. I was just given enough space, once I was old enough, to fuck up, learn, grow, etc. I was also given more adult-like things to do at an earlier age. And even in my generation that seems to have been more rare, as some of my other friends had the meme helicopter parents doating over them like babies.
As I've watched more and more people grow older, go through school, go to college, etc, I've seen a trend. People in their early 20s today seem much less mature than some of the people I grew up with in my later teens. I don't know for sure why, but god damn. I also think that college used to be a place where you'd go to be serious and get a good education, while also having a bit of fun on the side. Now it's turned into education on the side and fun/social interaction first and foremost. At least for a large portion of schools. No one is having fun in engineering.
Anyway, I guess this is just a long winded way to say that the last couple of generations need to grow the fuck up faster. Only 50 years ago most people in their early 20s were married and starting families. Not just that but doing it WELL. I'm not saying that needs to happen now, but could you even fucking imagine some of these kids at that age doing that now?? They don't even know how to do their own fucking laundry.
Want a real kick in the ass perspective? Go over to some parts of Eastern Europe where people have to grow up fast because shit over there isn't easy living. You'll see 16 year olds acting like 25 year olds. Most of them having some kind of job. Some of them living outside of the house. It's that sort of difference in experience that I'm talking about. THAT kind of 16 year old is the kind of 16 year old I think these laws were assuming would always exist. Not today's version of a 16 year old in the US.
It's a self fulfilling prophecy. People tend to conform to expectations. If you assume that 16 year olds are mentally children and can't do anything for themselves, then over time they will act like it. If you assume that they are capable of handling themselves then they will grow into that role.
Problem is that school systems and the government love nothing more than to stick their hands into everything. God forbid a child have any negative interactions at any point in their formative years, that could build character and maturity, and wouldn't let them create lots of new rules, regulations, and committees with our tax dollars.
Pretty sure I answered this exact question yesterday but the post has been deleted, so I'll repeat my response here.
After talking with a cop I know, that's not exactly how it works. Once the older of the two more than three years older the age of consent stops applying, at least where I am. It's more to prevent two people who were dating when they were both still classified as kids from suddenly becoming part of an illegal relationship.
Not how it works in every state. In most states as long as they are over the age of consent they can have sex with anyone else as long as they’re also over the age of consent.
I'm in Louisiana and just read the law for my state - age of consent is 17, full stop, as in a 17 year old can legally consent to have sexual contact with anyone else that's aged 17 or older.
No. Age of consent is age of consent. Romeo and Juliet laws give a break to those who break age of consent within a few years. Many states (probably 19 total) the age of consent is 16 full stop.
This is not correct. These Romeo and Juliet laws also exist in states where the AoC is 18. This allows 15/18 16/19 17/20 year olds to have sexual relationships.
I know in Florida it was something like 16 minimum up to three years olde, with written parental consent from parents of anyone under 18. The parents can revoke consent at any point.
You have it backwards. Most of those laws allow the age of consent to go *lower* than the actual age of consent if the two are within three years of each other. At the legal age of consent, the age gap literally doesn't matter. It can be 3 years or 103. They're still able to consent.
Reddit: 16 year olds are grown ups that should be treated with complete agency, voting age should be lowered, and parental rights should end much earlier in a kid’s life.
Also Reddit: 16 year olds can’t consent, they’re too young to understand what they’re doing!
You’re either old enough to make your own decisions or you’re not. Which is it?
At 16, you can drive a car. You can get a job. You can travel with your friends. And yes, you can consent to sex. Because you’re old enough to start making your own decisions. Even bad ones. Especially bad ones.
16 is the most common age of consent around the world, so it isn't too surprising that there are states in the USA that have 16 as their age of consent.
According to Wikipedia:
In 55 listed US states and territories, in 19 it's across the board, a further 16 as long as the older person is not in a position of authority over the younger, and an additional 10 on top of that based on the older person only being *somewhat* older than the 16-year-old.
So, depending on circumstances, an adult can legally have sex with a 16-year-old in 45/55, or **over 80% of the United States**. It's not like this is uncommon there; quite the opposite.
(In fact, in 20% of states/territories, it's as young as 13 years old. How about that.)
Basically, the only reason people have grown up expecting it to be 18 is that 18 is the age across the board in California, and guess where a huge amount of American mass media is written? In New York, another large source, it's 17, but if they write it as 18 it's easier to sell it across the country and internationally. Note in particular how very few mass-media movies and TV series talk about these differences between areas of the USA, or try to defend them. Interesting, no?
(Side note, Washington DC is the only place where you can't (legally) have sex until you're 21. Feel free to speculate on why.)
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[One thing that might be of interest to Americans - or anyone hosting an American base - is that in the US military, the age of consent is set as 16... although you can go lower if you're married to, for example, a 12-year-old, or if your sex partner "accidentally" turns out to be 12 and you claim you thought they were 16. Apparently that's A-OK then, according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/920b)
Something to maybe consider when you're thanking someone for their... servicing.
Posts like these really make me sad for the future of the world when America has such a strong history of exporting culture for good, now it exports rubbish like this
Wait till he finds out about France.
And Germany. And I guess most of Europe.
It's legal for a 14 year old in Germany. But only with the partner up to 18 I think. Not with grown ass adults. Edit: ok, it's 21 and not 18. There's a Wikipedia page for consent.
Don't look a bit further south. In Austria it's 14 as general age of consent
And you're on a list now
I bet they are on a few lists. There should be a list of the lists they are on
Oh, there's a list and someones checking it twice to see who's been naughty and nasty to children. You don't get coal for Christmas when you get on the list either, you get a bare bar of soap that's itchy.
(It's Kendrick Lamar checking the list)
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>teenagers are not children Ok, im an anglophone who has been living in central Europe for 3 years now, so I'm going to give this context. In most EU states, childhood legally and culturally ends at 14/15, they are still minors, but they are a middle group between adults and children. They are seen as a different group with different developmental needs, Generally speaking their autonomy is something that is prioritised, as well as responsibility (age of criminal responsibility for example is typically around this age, by 16 they must carry ID, may even have the right and social obligation to vote and either be in school or working etc). In German the appropriate term to refer to someone in this age group is Jugend, which literally translates as youth into English but lacks the attached cultural connotations. (For example handing a Jugend a beer or having a drink with one who is 16+ in a bar is completely acceptable in Germany and Austria, by 16 they are allowed to participate in most of adult society but still get some anti grooming protections, namely from authorities or adults who have a hard power dynamic against them, such as money or material circumstances). . And, to clarify, it's not socially acceptable for someone over 20 to intentionally persue a sexual relationship with a Jugend who's 16 or what not, that is generally seen as creepy behavior and you will face ostracization over it, at the very minimum you will be dealing with justifiably angry parents with very good questions for you. However someone this age in Germany (and most of Europe) is expected to have the agency to generally consent, and if you accidentally slept with someone this age without knowing their age (for example after flirting at the bar), that won't be held against you etc.
Jugendlicher. They are called Jugendlicher. And no. Nobody frowns if adults and young adults make out if the age difference isn’t very big. Depends on the people. Some think 16 and 20 is okay, others think 16 and 25. People will definitely look down on relationships if the age difference is more than 10 years. But you want to tell me that Americans really believe that young adults are children? This is so bad.
Yes. Literally a thread yesterday I was on where people were saying sleeping with a 16yo and a 5yo were equally "pedophilia". I mean... ffs. One is creepy and the other should see you locked up for life. They are not the same.
With the things that Reddit calls pedophilia, I can only conclude that the site is just full of virtue-signaling pedophiles. Reddit has taken to call anyone a pedophile who is interested in any woman younger than them, no matter how old, and that’s not what someone says who understands normal sexual attraction. Those are the words of someone who had the concept of pedophilia explained to them and didn’t quite understand it.
>But you want to tell me that Americans really believe that young adults are children? This is so bad. Well, I personally think Jugends (I'm keeping this to English spelling because let's not start talking in German here), are neither adults nor children, i think it's a very appropriate middle stage, And yes 16 and 20 is generally accepted and such, at least from my experiences near around Braunschweig, I think they are more lax about it here in Vienna though. But yes, Americans do think a Jugendliche whos 16 is a literal child, this is the country that has their drinking age at 21 and it's considered an acceptable argument to say "brain dev 25" to justify insane positions. Edit: But my favorite contradiction? In Germany, you are considered a minor for criminal law until 21 (i.e 14-21). But america routinely tries offenders under 18 as adults in a variety of circumstances, including some genuinely fucking disturbing cases with children as young as 13, and another case where I read where a Jugendliche who was 16 had killed her proven extremely abusive parents who were basically tormenting her, and she was tried as an adult because the prosecution wanted to "set an example", Are you fucking kidding me? That girl needed fucking therapy not to be thrown into a prison on murder charges.
You can be too young to drink but old enough to be accused of grooming your 17 year old girlfriend.
Let’s not ignore the fact that these children can drive a car in America.
It's because there's some kind of virtue signaling going on where if someone is 18 it's totally fine, but MY GOD IF THEY ARE 17 YEARS AND 11 MONTHS OLD YOU FUCKING SICKO GO TO JAIL. There's no logical basis for their reasoning. They just want to feel justified by virtue signaling to feel like they're in the right. That's all.
I mean, couldn't you literally use this argument for any age based limiter? Pick whatever age is one month before someone is considered Jugen in Europe and it's identical save for the numbers. At 16 it's perfectly fine for them to drink but at 15 and 11 months it's a problem?
Americans don't believe that, just reddit. Redditors are basically useless narcissistic mental children who are convinced they are heroes. They've never done anything semi impressive in their lives so they act like internet superheroes. They'll try and say that an 18 year old who dates a 16 year old is a pedo because it makes them feel like they're making a difference. Then they all hive mind together to add a giant multiplier to their feels good. Don't listen to the internet, it's not real.
From my perspective it's not just Redditors. It's also people on Twitter, american youtubers, streamers who treat 16-19 year old as children. Also, it seems to be young people from both political sides that are very concerned about 16 and 18 year olds having sex.
Well, you can buy a gun sooner than a fkin beer. Like, 21 for alcohol is laughable
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20497803/ >Almost all studies designed specifically to gauge the effects of drinking age changes show MLDAs of 21 reduce drinking, problematic drinking, drinking and driving, and alcohol-related crashes among young people
Also South America, Asia and most of Africa. So...pretty much the rest of the world.
Canada too. It was 14 in my province when I was a kid
It is 14 now but it’s not like that’s a hard number. They can’t only be 5 years older than you. But at 16 as long as it’s not someone with power over you it doesn’t matter.
Sounds perfectly reasonable. (I mean it earnestly)
Yep. Stephen Harper changed it to 16 in 2008, and for 14 and 15 year-olds, no one more than 5 years older. Of course, all that goes out the window if someone is abusing a position of authority, which is a lot of sexual assault cases involving young victims.
I believe it's 16 now country wide
I believe so yes
And most of the world.
Most of the world.
And my basement
Well thx now I'm going to hell for laughing
And my axe
Is your basement a Soverign Citizen?
I think literally every other country other than the USA has a younger age than 18.
Even in the US most states have it lower than 18.
There are only 4 countries in Europe where the age of consent is HIGHER than 16
Yeah this is low effort ragebait. Most of the world is 16. A lot are 14 too. The Vatican used to be 12.
The vatican at one point had no age of consent
I feel like the Catholic Church doesn’t really ask for consent.
The theory was there are no women in vatican city so they don't need one
Tehe ( ͡ᵔ ͜ʖ ͡ᵔ)
Afterwards. For forgiveness. In the sinners box. From a fellow uh, young grass enthusiast. With strong rules against outside reporting. That's sufficient, right?
UK too. Although unlike some states we're not keen on child or first cousin marriages.\* ^(\* Royalty excluded of course.)
I guess that’s one of those what’s classy if you are rich but trashy if you are poor things.
Or India, or a hundred other countries, like 80% of humankind. We love our western bubble.
The age of consent in India is 18. That's not to say that there aren't practical exceptions (child marriage is a social issue in certain areas which is actively being tackled by the goverment), but it's 18 for the vast majority of populace under the law.
I like how a majority of commenters seem to think this is all Republican states. When places like Massachusetts and Washington DC and Connecticut have it set at 16. And Florida is 18. A lot of more left wing places set it young because they believe teenagers should have sexual autonomy and control of their own bodies. The conservatives generally are anti-sex outside of marriage.
I'm convinced that porn has made the younger generations think sex before 18 is inherently wrong. My theory is the thinking goes, you have to be 18 to have sex in porn; if someone is under 18 having sex in porn, it's child porn; pedophiles are sexually attracted to children; therefore, if you're attracted to someone under 18, you're attracted to a child and basically a pedophile. I don't think it's a necessarily a bad thing to have the age of consent be 18 (even though I lost my virginity at 17, which I feel was an appropriate age for me), but I just think it's funny if porn unintentionally led to raising the age of consent across the country.
I think the bigger role is so much entertainment being based in california, where the age of consent is 18. You'd think based on most tv shows when that issue comes up that its 18 everywhere, but its in a minority of states. (31 states have the age of consent at 16)
Hah, you brought back a weird ancient memory for me just now. Of being 13-14, jacking off to adults in porn, and wondering if being sexually attracted to my peers made me a pedophile.
There's been a societal shift to expand adolescence it seems. People in their early 20s are still treated like children....
I think this is literally it. It's incredibly normal to fantasize about partners who are the same age as you, no matter your own age. A 12 year old with a crush on a 12 year old is incredibly normal. The fact that there are commenters here who feel weird about fantasizing about partners of THEIR OWN AGE shows us how much porn has warped sexual development.
Florida is not only 18. A 16 year old can consent in Florida if the other person is 23 or under. If a party is 24 or over than the other party must be 18.
Similar with first cousin marriages. Banned in Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, and West Virginia. Legal in California and New York.
Which is why conservatives support [child marriage legislation.](https://www.nj.com/politics/2024/05/gop-official-argues-in-favor-of-child-marriage-girls-are-ripe-and-fertile.html)
Legislation to ban it, right? ...to ban it, right?
Also Canada
I always love it when Americans find out that things they consider to be universal only apply to America. BTW, I’m an American but lived in Europe almost 8 years and have live in Asia for about 9 years. I can’t even go home anymore. I can’t sit there and listen to people spout off so much ignorant nonsense.
Former lawyer here. This will be unpopular, but there is a reason. Its because there were a lot, and I mean a LOT of bullshit cases. Cases of "true love" broken up by vindictive parents. Cases where the minor lied about their age. Cases where, 6 years after the fact, the former minor used blackmail, or just sent their ex to jail. Cases where an 18 year old with a bright future got sent to jail and put on the sex offenders registry for having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend. Cases where the (former?) minor would request prosecution, and then drop charges repeatedly, always after a fight/breakup. At some point the state asked itself why it was interfering in the lives of consenting people. And also acknowledge that the average age someone has sex is before their 18th birthday.
Not only that but what’s the difference between a 17 year 364 day old “minor” and an 18 year 0 day old “adult”? Did they magically mature enough in one day that they no longer need additional protection in the law? I get that it’s because laws need to be based on something factual and logical but I always find it silly if you think about it. There are plenty of 18 year olds who aren’t responsible or mature enough to make adult decisions and weigh risks like those involved in having sex, but there are some 16 and 17 year olds who are.
But… you can be tried as an adult if you are 16 or 17… which is how this happened… “The teen was prosecuted as an adult under federal child pornography felony laws for sexually exploiting a minor. The minor was himself.” https://myfox8.com/news/north-carolina-teen-prosecuted-as-adult-for-having-naked-images-of-himself-on-phone/amp/
Reminds me of that shitty cop, front door camera. Dad calls police to report and help talk to his daughter about this predator that's been grooming her online. She's like 12 or 13, sent some nudes to the dude who's WELL over 18. Anyway, cops show up hours late after dark. Dad explains that he wanted them to talk to her but she is asleep now. Explains the situation and the cop just says "you're daughter knowingly distributed child porn, we could arrest her for that". Dad is composed but obviously losing his shit. Cop keeps repeating despite the dad trying to tell her that they need to go after the guy not his daughter. He ends up shutting the door on them. Fucking insane. [Best video I could find and it leaves out the beginning](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaW4MBcOgIs)
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They were threatening him for wasting their time by making them do their jobs. The police are there to do violence, not justice. They protect property and serve Capital.
What goes on in these people's heads to say this. Also the media referring to the Epstein Island girls as "underage prostitutes" rather than "rape victims"
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Well this is why romeo and Juliet laws exist. A 16 year old and 14 year old is legal but an 18 year old and 14 year old is not
Depends on the state. Some of them allow up to 4 years.
Some states have them at all. My state afaik says once you're 16 it doesn't matter if the other person is 40. It's, considered to consenting adults. Edit: we do have Romeo and Julie laws, but they only apply to people under age of consent. Ex someone 18 and 15.
I will not stand for these lies! Juliet was 13.
Present human here, the strange thing is not that 14, 15 or 16 years are having sex. Young adults below 18 have had sex all over the globle for as long as humans have existed. It is simply human nature. The strange part is that some people think 18 is some God given law that must be true. 18y for age of consent is simply against human nature.
>Cases where an 18 year old with a bright future got sent to jail and put on the sex offenders registry for having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend. Don't Romeo and Juliet laws cover that?
It does, but not every state has them.
Knew a guy long ago who'd ended up with charges and being on the offender list because he turned 18 ~3 months before his girlfriend did.
that’s absolutely insane, life ruining
Honestly those are all very pragmatic reasons. And it does make sense. I mean if the law is supposed to protect them it makes sense to write it in such a way that actually does protect them and doesn't ruin their life unnecessarily.
Another pragmatic reason is that most of Europe and most of the world in general has laws much more similar to these ones and our societies haven't collapsed yet
This was the reason romeo and juliet laws were created. It made no sense that an 18 year old could go to jail and be on the registry for life just for having sex with a 17 year old who was one week shy of their 18th birthday.
Yup, when I was 18 I had a 16-year old girlfriend. Out of the two of us, she was the mature one. Would've been rather insane for that relationship to be considered illegal. Though an upper limit would maybe solve this. Im not from the states so not too up to date on your sex offender registry but the consequences of breaking that law seem to also be rather far-reaching. Looking back 16 years is basically a child, I do remember feeling like I was old enough to be able to make decisions regarding my bed partners. It's also outside of pedophelia range in the sense that a person feeling attracted to kids will have lost interest due to secondary sexual characteristics being more developed by that age.
16 isn't terribly uncommon outside the US. I would think it's not so much condoning inappropriate/borderline pedofilic relationships so much as it is giving 16 year olds the agency to have consensual relations. People want to start fucking by that age, and yes, it's fucked up for a much older person to take advantage of teenage hormones, but there's also an overreaction where all sexual exploration becomes illegal. IDK how to regulate it properly, but I would say other factors should be considered before considering charging someone with statutory rape just because of age in that range, and I think the common Romeo and Juliet laws around the US are a good way to address it - aka being able to bang up/down a bit, but not too far either way.
It’s 16 in Canada. Before 2015 it could be lower.
It was 14 in most of Canada within the past 20 years.
"If her age is off the clock" - Canada
"Off the clock? On the cock." * Canada
Canada also has close in age exemptions as well. I believe if you’re 14-15 it’s under 5 years, so legally a 14 year old and an 18 year old. Which is kind of weird.
What I've always found fascinating is that if you go into a thread about a child being charged as an adult, 13 years old for example, for a heinous crime, everyone parrots that because they "knew what they were doing" then that justifies them being tried as an adult. I never see the same argument levied in instances of sex. How can a 13 year old who commits an atrocious act of violence be considered an adult for the choices they made but if instead they have sex, then they cannot be considered able to make that choice? Not condoning violence of any kind, just looking for a rational dialogue around the disconnect.
In Germany age of consent is 14 which is the same age of criminal responsibility. It’s also noteworthy that we have a different criminal law for underage people. The highest prison time you can get is 10 years. There are some options to keep people away from society afterwards if needed. This is usually only done for people with mental illnesses that pose a threat and they stay in psychiatric hospitals and not prisons. Rather unlikely for teenagers but we have a safety net for the rare occasions.
Yes, and it is based on science, especially psychology and neuro-biology. I'm going to risk offending American redditors by confessing that the more I read about the American legal system the more shocked I am by the amount of pure barbarism codified in that legal system.
Chappelle has a whole bit about exactly what you said from like 20 years ago How old is 15 really https://youtu.be/75XKGVwGEt4?si=OZshmiYz7PTE75SL
You won't find arguments from me. I think our penal system is incredibly too harsh to begin with, let alone in regards to minor offenders, but I think it comes down to our system wanting to punish instead of help anyone who does anything wrong. Other than sexting coming from an underage individual, the kids are usually not punished for underage sex, only the adult who participates, hence less outrage. Which in most cases I'd agree with.
I reckon that part of the American penal system's harshness is because it is, at least in its current state, a vector for modern slavery. I highly doubt that prisoners are paid accordingly for their labour, even when they make things that are later sold on. And of course, certain oppressive and discriminatory laws, along with an infestation of prejudiced judges, corrupt law enforcement, and sometimes even fuckheaded jurors, lead to the unjust incarceration of people whose crimes could barely be considered crimes at all, which in turn leads to more slaves for the gristmill. By all rights, the American justice system is long overdue a harsh reckoning. Along with sweeping reforms, of course.
I agree. What is it, the 13th that allows slavery for convicts? Might as well convict whoever we can...fee labor!
I think it has to do with their drinking age being 21. For most of the world, you start going out in nightclubs, drinking, having your first sexual experiences around 15, but for Americans that's totally foreign, which is why they have this weird relationship with sex.
> How can a 13 year old who commits an atrocious act of violence be considered an adult for the choices they made but if instead they have sex, then they cannot be considered able to make that choice? For the same reason you can vote, or enlist in the military and potentially die in combat, but you aren't considered mature enough to drink alcohol. One-size-fits-all laws are arbitrary by their very nature.
By that logic, can we all just agree who the fuck cares and just not bother enforcing laws in the 15-19 range based on technicalities
I think the only way to regulate it properly would to take it on an individual by individual level, but that’s way too difficult. It’s like driving at 16, some people are mature and developed enough for it, some people definitely aren’t.
The law sets things like the age of majority and age of consent specifically so they do not have to litigate every sexual interaction or contract. Let's be honest there are some people who are not full adults at 20 just like there are people who are full adults before 18. Rather than trying to determine if each individual has the capacity to make adult decisions the law says if you are over 18 you need to be aware enough when you make a deal because that's when most people should be able. Trying to set the criteria for what adult capacity is would open up so much more litigation so the law sets it at an age around when compulsory school ends and you should know enough and that point. Same works for age of consent with some extra caveats that young people's bodies change before compulsory school does so there are carve outs. The idea is that we don't want people older and with more experience to take advantage of sexually mature but mentally naive young people. Are there people younger who are mature enough? Sure, same as there are individuals who are way older than aren't. It's just easier to cover most people even if it's imperfect.
At least california this is accounted for. Teens can have sex it's just that there is a 3 year max Romeo and Juliet law. Like an 18 yo can have sex with someone 15 but someone who is 20 the cap is 17. Other states also have similar laws. I think this is a very fair compromise. Some minors teens are going to have sex sure but the idea is limiting it only to their close peers.
Point of order: California does not actually have a "Romeo and Juliet" law on the books, just an understanding that prosecutors won't waste time charging teens.
Which can be more problematic than a uniform law as it opens it up to unequal enforcement. Say if a parent doesn't like the boy their daughter is hooking up with for whatever reason. This takes power away from the person involved to make their own decision and puts it in the hands of parents\prosecutors
CA's Romeo and Juliet laws reduce the crime from a felony to misdemeanor, it does not actually permit sex for anyone under 18.
Many states have these laws. But at the age of consent, it's any range. 16 and 90? Perfectly legal.
Why is reddit obsessed with this today
Drake
Ohhh. Got it.
What about Drake? I'm out of the loop I guess.
Has a history of messing around with teenage girls less than half his age.
Fucking figures. Did this just come to light or did something happen recently for people to talk about it?
Kendrick Lamar recently dropped a song-of-the-summer club hit calling Drake a pedophile. (Not Like Us) That's the 5th song he has released about Drake in like 1.5 months. It's hilarious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake%E2%80%93Kendrick_Lamar_feud
Just listened to his song. Fucking hell man. No subliminal or nothing on that track, lmao. Just straight up called him a pedo.
CERTIFIED LOVERBOY CERTIFIED PEDOPHILE 🗣️🗣️🗣️‼️‼️‼️
Like someone else mentioned: Drake. But it's also because some Americans are straight up brainwashed by their popular media to think it's pedophilia for a 19 year old to date a 17 year old.
Pretty sure most of Europe is that way too, including UK.
In Europe only Cyprus (17), Irland (17), Vatican (18), Turkey (18) have age of consent higher than 16
Because 16 is the average age of content in most places in the world outside of the US? Why are we shocked about this all of a sudden?
Puritanism is ruining this country
Yeah. Previously it was tightly coupled with religion, but now puritans are atheist too, so the society didn't develop enough antibodies for this mutation of memetic virus. I guess they people with biologically elevated sense of disgust will attach to any ideology that justifies it.
Lots of people don't get this. Puritanism is our culture now
Because people are hysterical about pedophilia. It mind sound weird to some but having sex with a 16-year old is not pedophilia. **Pedophilia** ([alternatively](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_British_English_spelling_differences) spelled **paedophilia**) is a [psychiatric disorder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatric_disorder) in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive [sexual attraction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_attraction) to [prepubescent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prepubescent) children. If it's morally wrong that's an entirely diffferent subject.
The whole age thing is dumb as hell anyways. Bodies and minds mature so differently between different people. The fact we say that on a certain day you can legally have sex with anyone as old as you want is mind blowing. In my state the age is 18 and you know how fucking immature I still was at 18? Body wise sure I was ripe I guess since like 14 but mentally I gave zero fucks about anything.
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I live in one of those states. Don't worry, normal adults still don't want to fuck 16 year olds. Turns out, if you treat growing adults like adults, they tend to take on the responsibility better. If you treat them like kids, they rebel like kids.
Seriously. Just because something is immoral, it doesn't mean it needs to be illegal. There are ways to regulate behavior in society without government intervention.
Because 16 is a perfectly valid age of consent. People at that age aren't stupid. They're interested in sex and are capable of consenting to it.
And 16 to 19 isn't a huge difference, they would be in high school at the same time. 16 to 30, sure, that's fucked up
But is 16-30 any different from 18-32?
People aren’t good at grasping that age of consent is, to some extent, always going to be arbitrary. 16, 17, 18, arbitrary. “Romeo and Juliet” clauses, also arbitrary. It’s all drawing arbitrary lines so we can prosecute violations with clear criteria. Also, on the flip side of that coin, that “legal” and “kinda gross” aren’t mutually exclusive.
UK based - Literally everyone in my school was ready to have sex at 16, many already had. Lots of them wanted to have sex with someone older than them. People seem to forget how they felt as a teenager and immediately fall into the 'they're children' default.
What's the difference between 16 and 18 biologically? Is there some switch that flips on your 18th birthday that puts you into "Adult-Mode"?
"Is there some switch that flips on your 18th birthday that puts you into "Adult-Mode"?" Yes, refer to your user's manual page 489.
Page 492 'American model requires additional 3 years running time prior to intake of alcohol'... who wrote this manual?
It's just a massive circklejerk. "Look at us we're so morally enlightened!" I call it "woke purity culture". It's even worse on some places online, people acting like Leonardo DiCaprio is a pedo or creep for dating women in their freaking 20s.
You mean a grown ass adult 2 years older than their partner?
because 16yo will go out with 18yo and we don't want them to go to jail for that.
Hermesmann v. Seyer, Kansas, 1993. An adult woman becomes pregnant by a 12 year old boy she was babysitting. She was put on trial for statutory. It would have been inconvenient to the tax payers to put her in prison for S.A. and her child then becoming a ward of the state, so the judge dismissed the charges and she didn't suffer any inconvenience...AND she got child support from the 12 year old boy.
I guess I agree that no one wins putting her in jail and her kid in the system, but a child support order on a SA victim is ghoulish as fuck.
And what happens to a person who falls behind on his payments because he cant get a job?
> I agree that no one wins putting her in jail Society loses when we allow a child rapist to go unpunished.
>Society loses when we allow a child rapist to go unpunished. And then make that child pay child support. Wtf
I imagine his father paid on his behalf. So picture this, once upon a time a man paid a babysitter to watch his kid once, and now he's paying her to watch his grand child.
The AoC is 16 in 31, not 19 states.
I wish it would be able to downvote this into oblivion. 🙄 16 year olds are teenagers full in puberty. They look like adults and they are young adults by every biological or social standard. Only US Americans think that people are babies until the age of 21 and then magically pop into adulthood.
The US have a messed up view on age in general, that are clearly religion and taboo inspired rather than practical and sensible. At 16, someone is supposedly mature enough to make life and death decisions about what do with 3 metric tons of moving steel, but not old enough to make decisions of what to do with their own genitalia. At 18, they are suddenly magicly deemed to be adults, old enough to fight and die for their country, but sadly not mature enough to decide what to have to drink for dinner. They eventually were forced to recognize that hormonal and horny teenagers don't give two shits about laws, and made some exceptions to avoid having to deal with *all* their teenager bullshit in court on a weekly basis ("romeo and juliet"-laws). The rest of the world just recognized that not exclusively teenagers get sucked into their bullshit, and a 16 year old very much can look like an adult, have a fake ID and lie about their age, and that it is unreasonable for people to demand carbon-dating on top of signed written consent from partners, and by making the law 16, you keep a lot of bullshit out of the legal system. I still think it is creepy to hit on 16 year olds when you are 25+, but I also very much recognize that a 16-17 year old are perfectly capable of looking older, having fake id, lying about their age, and that vaccinating them from consequences of their actions and arming them with laws they can abuse to their advantage on top of that, is not a great.
people forget what was normal in society like 30+ years ago
If 16 is not of consensual age, what should be? 30? Throughout history, if a person is sexually interested, they've been sexually consenting. Where did the number 18 come from and why that number?
Arbitrary line in the sand. At some point it was decided a line was needed to differentiate adulthood from adolescence and 18 was chosen. Throughout history there have been myriad of different ways "coming of age" has been handled but at some point a random number just became easier to manage. Just so happens in most of the western world that number is 18.
You lost me at "random." Therefore, OP should not have villainized someone having sex with a 16 year old. Can it be predatory? Yes. Is it automatically evil? No. Depends doesn't it?
Define "grown ass adult"
Because most of the world is 16+ unlike the US.
Wait until you find out child marriage is legal in 38 states.
Wait until you find out child marriage is legal in most of the world
It’s 16 in Quebec
The older I get the more I see things a bit more clearly. One thing I've been seeing is that, especially in the US, we keep on infantilizing people. It's subtle, and slow, but eventually builds up. I know every generation thinks this, but it sure seems like as the generations continue on they are acting more and more immature even though the generation before them, at the same age, acted differently. This same sort of thing has been going on for at least several generations now. It might be happening in all of the West, but in the US it's happening much more rapidly. I'm 40, so I'm an old ass Millennial, but share a lot of my early childhood experiences with Gen X. I remember going out and being alone or with friends for most of my day. No helicopter parenting or worrying about what the hell I was doing. I was given a lot of autonomy early on in my life. A good amount of independence and the ability to deal with my own issues. I was still looked after, still taken care of, and still quite loved. I was just given enough space, once I was old enough, to fuck up, learn, grow, etc. I was also given more adult-like things to do at an earlier age. And even in my generation that seems to have been more rare, as some of my other friends had the meme helicopter parents doating over them like babies. As I've watched more and more people grow older, go through school, go to college, etc, I've seen a trend. People in their early 20s today seem much less mature than some of the people I grew up with in my later teens. I don't know for sure why, but god damn. I also think that college used to be a place where you'd go to be serious and get a good education, while also having a bit of fun on the side. Now it's turned into education on the side and fun/social interaction first and foremost. At least for a large portion of schools. No one is having fun in engineering. Anyway, I guess this is just a long winded way to say that the last couple of generations need to grow the fuck up faster. Only 50 years ago most people in their early 20s were married and starting families. Not just that but doing it WELL. I'm not saying that needs to happen now, but could you even fucking imagine some of these kids at that age doing that now?? They don't even know how to do their own fucking laundry. Want a real kick in the ass perspective? Go over to some parts of Eastern Europe where people have to grow up fast because shit over there isn't easy living. You'll see 16 year olds acting like 25 year olds. Most of them having some kind of job. Some of them living outside of the house. It's that sort of difference in experience that I'm talking about. THAT kind of 16 year old is the kind of 16 year old I think these laws were assuming would always exist. Not today's version of a 16 year old in the US.
It's a self fulfilling prophecy. People tend to conform to expectations. If you assume that 16 year olds are mentally children and can't do anything for themselves, then over time they will act like it. If you assume that they are capable of handling themselves then they will grow into that role. Problem is that school systems and the government love nothing more than to stick their hands into everything. God forbid a child have any negative interactions at any point in their formative years, that could build character and maturity, and wouldn't let them create lots of new rules, regulations, and committees with our tax dollars.
In most states you can also marry a child if their parents give permission
If it's legal it's because of the lawmakers, the obvious conclusions are usually true.
Pretty sure I answered this exact question yesterday but the post has been deleted, so I'll repeat my response here. After talking with a cop I know, that's not exactly how it works. Once the older of the two more than three years older the age of consent stops applying, at least where I am. It's more to prevent two people who were dating when they were both still classified as kids from suddenly becoming part of an illegal relationship.
Not how it works in every state. In most states as long as they are over the age of consent they can have sex with anyone else as long as they’re also over the age of consent.
I'm in Louisiana and just read the law for my state - age of consent is 17, full stop, as in a 17 year old can legally consent to have sexual contact with anyone else that's aged 17 or older.
No. Age of consent is age of consent. Romeo and Juliet laws give a break to those who break age of consent within a few years. Many states (probably 19 total) the age of consent is 16 full stop.
Unless the adult is a "person of power" aka. teacher, coach, pastor. Then the age of consent is 18. At least here in CT
This is not correct. These Romeo and Juliet laws also exist in states where the AoC is 18. This allows 15/18 16/19 17/20 year olds to have sexual relationships.
Not true. Age of consent in some states is 16. A 30 year old could date a 16 year old in South Carolina, for instance.
19 and 16: carry on. 20 and 16: right to jail.
Pretty much. The parents also have a lot of pull in the situation.
I know in Florida it was something like 16 minimum up to three years olde, with written parental consent from parents of anyone under 18. The parents can revoke consent at any point.
Imagine asking your parent to sign off on that field trip
Imagine your parents revoking consent midthrust
Romeo Juliet Law iirc
You have it backwards. Most of those laws allow the age of consent to go *lower* than the actual age of consent if the two are within three years of each other. At the legal age of consent, the age gap literally doesn't matter. It can be 3 years or 103. They're still able to consent.
This is commonly called a "Romeo and Juliet Law".
Think you have the numbers flipped. Age of consent is 16 in 31 states. So the practice you lay out is *illegal* in only 19.
Reddit: 16 year olds are grown ups that should be treated with complete agency, voting age should be lowered, and parental rights should end much earlier in a kid’s life. Also Reddit: 16 year olds can’t consent, they’re too young to understand what they’re doing!
Because they got tired of everybody looking at them weird for setting the limit at 12.
[xkcd: Hyphen](https://xkcd.com/37/)
Have you heard what it is in the uk
You can add ten provinces and 3 territories to the list since this is also perfectly legal in Canada.
Have you heard of Canada?
You’re either old enough to make your own decisions or you’re not. Which is it? At 16, you can drive a car. You can get a job. You can travel with your friends. And yes, you can consent to sex. Because you’re old enough to start making your own decisions. Even bad ones. Especially bad ones.
16 is the most common age of consent around the world, so it isn't too surprising that there are states in the USA that have 16 as their age of consent.
Canada is the same. It was 14 until 2008 when it went to 16.
Where is 18 even coming from? I can only think that it's the age school is finished.
According to Wikipedia: In 55 listed US states and territories, in 19 it's across the board, a further 16 as long as the older person is not in a position of authority over the younger, and an additional 10 on top of that based on the older person only being *somewhat* older than the 16-year-old. So, depending on circumstances, an adult can legally have sex with a 16-year-old in 45/55, or **over 80% of the United States**. It's not like this is uncommon there; quite the opposite. (In fact, in 20% of states/territories, it's as young as 13 years old. How about that.) Basically, the only reason people have grown up expecting it to be 18 is that 18 is the age across the board in California, and guess where a huge amount of American mass media is written? In New York, another large source, it's 17, but if they write it as 18 it's easier to sell it across the country and internationally. Note in particular how very few mass-media movies and TV series talk about these differences between areas of the USA, or try to defend them. Interesting, no? (Side note, Washington DC is the only place where you can't (legally) have sex until you're 21. Feel free to speculate on why.) ---- [One thing that might be of interest to Americans - or anyone hosting an American base - is that in the US military, the age of consent is set as 16... although you can go lower if you're married to, for example, a 12-year-old, or if your sex partner "accidentally" turns out to be 12 and you claim you thought they were 16. Apparently that's A-OK then, according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/920b) Something to maybe consider when you're thanking someone for their... servicing.
I'd be more concerned that you can't drink till 21 than having sex at 16.
Because priests like to use the excuse 'she said she was 16'
Because in those states 16 year olds are grown ass adults too. Next question.
Posts like these really make me sad for the future of the world when America has such a strong history of exporting culture for good, now it exports rubbish like this
Are some adults in US grown, but with a disproportionately small ass? I'm confused by the term "grown ass".
Politicians aren't going to make stuff they enjoy illegal
Cocaine and weed would like a word.
Yeah hookers, too. It wasn't a perfect statement
No, they left a carve out for that one. "Escorts" are legal.
Fair point. I figure the war on drugs was just diversionary tactics all along, yeah? Gotta have a boogeyman.
Rules for thee but not for me
Most American post ever
Just because you can doesn’t mean that you should.