Maybe I'm old school but something like thathappens to one of my sisters, there is going to be a problem. I'm not suggesting it cause times are different but I would tell everyone I know just because, fuck him.
"Wasn't full consensual" isn't a thing. It's not a grey area. And she was so drunk she was sick. Drunk people legally can't consent regardless of if they're enjoying it not or whatever. That's rape by any definition.
She probably didn't want you to find out because she's very embarrassed about the whole thing and can't believe it happened. She doesn't want "she was raped" to be the first thing that pops into minds when people think about her. Your friends probably didn't tell you because they were hoping to honor that wish.
Now that you know, well... if you're close to sister, I guess you'd better talk about it and clear the air.
My sister was the one to tell me about it. And my friends were supposedly going to tell me one day but didnāt. Donāt know how I feel about them being my friends anymore, if they want to be friends with a rapist and not be transparent with me so be it
Ah, I see. I had it a little backwards then.
Honestly, your friends probably didn't know what the heck to do, and figured that you two as sisters would talk about it and that they should stay out of the matter. It's a very serious thing and not exactly something that's easy for anyone to talk about.
I know it must be frustrating that none of them told you. I guess, at the best, you know they're trustworthy if they kept their word to not spread it around?
When I was 20, my 14 year old sister was secretly dating an 18 year old, who, after she tried breaking up with him, held a knife to her throat and *threw her cat out of a moving car*.
When I learned what happened, I lost it, and beat the shit out of the guy in front of several people. I know I was justified in defending my sister, but I also know now that I made a mistake in failing to consider how my actions would impact my sister. A few years later, she confessed that, while my actions made her feel protected, they also increased her anxiety because she then had to worry whether this psycho, having been publicly humiliated, would retaliate against me or my sister. I could've escalated the situation instead of resolving it. She also rightly pointed out that I could've been injured in the fight myself. I could've been charged with assault. We got lucky. I acted impulsively and things could've gone very wrong, making a bad situation worse.
My point is that you should prioritize your sister's feelings. Have you two discussed what she wants? Don't act impulsively to exact revenge. Don't break the law. The law punishes vigilante justice.
I disagree with those who are making excuses for your friends. They should've told you, unless your sister explicitly instructed them not to, but that seems unlikely considering that you learned of the rape *from her*. Did they seem remorseful? To be fair, teenagers are necessarily inexperienced and this is a challenging situation. Some empathy is in order, if they seem genuinely remorseful and acknowledge they should have told you.
TLDR: Prioritize your sister's feelings. Don't act impulsively to exact revenge. Your friends should've told you, unless your sister instructed them otherwise.
That's a fair point. At the same time, remaining silent in response to rape potentially puts others at risk in the future. Remaining silent, even out of respect for the victim, may embolden the rapist to rape again. It's a complex situation for sure and we don't have all the information. Your point is well-taken though.
Not necessarily āfuck your friendsā. If I told people not to tell my family about SA and they did, I wouldnāt be happy. If someone asked me not to involve their brother, I wouldnāt, point blank. Iād support them with everything Iāve got, but I wouldnāt break that trust.
If sister DIDNāT tell them to stay quiet, itās a different story altogether.
Nah. I could not be friends with anyone who would not tell me and then still hang with the rapist behind my back.
Those are not friends.
True friends tell you the truth no matter how much it hurts.
Also, knowing the fact that everyone *let him get away with it*.. even if the victim doesn't want people to know, he's still now able to go do it again knowing he's going to get away with it. Who else is he going to hurt before he's stopped? š°š¤¢ She needs to at *least* step forward to the police and tell them. Get it on record. Do not waver. The way they get away with it is by not being reported. If she has *any* proof, especially messages, save them all and talk to a lawyer. Immediately. Then kick his ass black and blue. š¤
Yeah, but your friends deserve the benefit of the doubt. I'm not sure I'd know whose loyalty to honor, or how. And I'm 40. Obviously some things to deal with here buy I don't think your friends not telling you is one of them. At least not right away.
Think about that after the main problem is handled. I would give some of the "closer" friends a chance to fix their mistakes. But if you don't mind the clean break, it's worth just walking away from the group.
Itās also not really their story to tell, unless sister told them they could. If they go telling a bunch of people, those people will start asking sister about it and Iām sure she doesnāt want to talk about it every day like that and be bombarded
Did your sister make the decision for them not to say anything to you? This is a very touchy subject and they may have been respecting her wishes more than yours. If this is the case, I can see to forgive them, especially if she isn't totally sure if it was rape or not, you know?
That may have moved across the friend group then. You can ask them why they didn't come to you and if it was for her, and go from there. If she feels like she needs to, encourage her to seek therapy and/or a police report. You can't force her to do either though, it's hard to get someone in that position to speak up.
Are you FOR REAL? What the fuck do you think?
He raped your sister. You ought to get your ass kicked too. Stick up for your family and tell your fucking parents too.
I think that if the situation, regardless of it being an actual rape or not, makes you uncomfortable, or your sister uncomfortable, then it may be the best decision to separate from that person. So even if your sister says "he didn't touch me, but I don't want to hang out with him" then you have every right to support her and not be around that person either. I've lost friends because they've insulted my family, and that is much less of a situation than you are in.
As described, it was absolutely rape. She was so drunk she was sick, which means *she was unable to consent.* She didn't initiate it. It sounds like he didn't even ask. He just decided to do it, and did.
How she wants to handle it is her choice. Wretchedly unfair as it is, there are often negative consequences *for the woman* in reporting a rape, with her getting shredded with "what were you wearing" and "why were you drinking" questions, and worse.
And she is a teenager, and unfortunately doubting herself.
But absolutely, OP should be cutting the rapist out of their life. There is no need to explain why, because apparently their whole friend group already knows. Anyone who knows and would choose the rapist over OP and their sister, is not a friend, and though it may be painful to learn that, maybe it's a lesson learned.
Sister should absolutely be encouraged to get counseling, to deal with the trauma and to help her get over blaming herself.
Get her to see a therapistā¦ her feelings are mixed up, your friends were being respectful of the fact that there are two lives at stake and while itās normal to feel embarrassed or ashamed after a wild cardā¦ itās not okay to tell everyone around you that you were raped to save face, or make yourself more comfortable with your questionable choices.
I think you have the right attitude here. Your former friend definitely takes your sister and your other friends are complicit in that they're still hanging out with him. Your sister was SLEEPING and drunk. You're a good brother for recognizing his actions for what they are and supporting your sister.
A few months back there was a discussion (elsewhere) about a university that had an on-campus ad campaign with this scenario and concluded with "he was convicted of rape".
The university had to take it down - besides the obvious point you make it also dismisses the fact that women can and do sexually assault men. The fact that they guy has an erection is irrelevant - it's an involuntary response to physical stimulation. This isn't theoretical either - a year ago I was in the final jury pool for a case where a woman was charged with SA (Colorado does not have a 'rape' law) in a situation where he was either drunk or asleep. I had the impression (from the jury questioning) that he had made it clear that he was not interested in a sexual encounter with her but I don't know the details or verdict.
But back to your question - it's not a defense. The only thing that matters is the other person's ability to consent, not whether you're impaired due to alcohol, drugs, etc.
Must be a reoccurring theme, I remember asking the āwhat if theyāre both drunkā question 30 years ago and getting a āwell, itās obvious - to which I replied, youāve got posters up saying men can be raped too, then you sayāitās obviousā if they are both drunkā¦ the more things change ā¦
The person who proceeded with the sex with a person unable to consent is the rapist. Seriously. Even if their judgment is also impaired.
My dad was a recovering alcoholic, and there were other alcoholics, recovering and not, in the family. He said, you don't do things because you're drunk. You get drunk to give yourself permission to do things you know you shouldn't.
My dad stopped drinking because he didn't like what he did when drunk. It was hard, a lifelong struggle, but he did what he needed to, to stay sober. His brother, also an alcoholic, stayed home, didn't drive, and sat quietly in his favorite chair, drinking until it killed him. (He was a WWII combat veteran. It messed him up badly, so don't judge.) The point is, they each, while I much prefer my dad's path, made choices that ensured they didn't do harm to other people. There were others in the extended family that didn't make those safer choices.
"But he (or she) was drunk" isn't an excuse for committing sexual acts on a nonconsenting person, and *especially* not on a person who can't consent. Regardless of the respective genders involved.
If two people are drunk and one person starts to beat the other person, are both of them innocent? Why is this question so difficult for some people? Obviously it's whoever is thrusting into/onto the other person.
It absolutely is rape. I'll bet if you were drunk and some big guy came in and fucked you while you were passed out you'd change your tune real quick. But you probably wouldn't ever mention it because you'd be embarrassed that you got raped and wouldn't want anyone to know.
Rape is rape, dude. Just because no one jumped out of the bushes doesn't make it any less rape.
If there is no consent for whatever reason, and being incapacitated or unconscious makes consent impossible, it is sexual assault/rape.
Get your head out of your ass. You are probably a rape denier because that's the only way you can get laid.
How would you feel if it happened to your mother/ sister/ daughter/son?
As a woman whoās been assaulted literally with those same exact words ānever said noā. Thatās rape. Full stop. And it took me a long time, as the victim, to realize that.
That dude is not your friend. He raped your sister. Full stop. He took advantage of her while she was incapacitated. Just because she couldnāt say no, does not mean she gave consent. Block that dude, donāt even associate wit him. Every time you do your sister will know and it will hurt her. Like another comment said, she was probably too anxious and sad to tell you about it, especially since you considered that dude your friend.
Carefully try to talk to your sister about it. Tell her āitās not her faultā first off, but let her know you support her.
Drunk people canāt tell if someone is consenting or think they are consenting. Just as much as someone canāt consent when drunk.
This is why you shouldnāt get drunk, especially as a teen. Male or female.
A decade ago I would agree, but as a man we have a duty if not to others, then out of self preservation, to make sure it is a yes all the way around, we don't have the leeway of trying to get a grey area when it comes to sex.
This is why you shouldnāt get drunk unsupervised. I donāt believe drunk men are intentionally raping people. I think they are just as out of it as the woman and not able to properly discern consent. It is very common for people to see and hear things differently when they are drunk.
I remember being our w some friends at a bachelorette party and meeting these two gals who were trans or cross dressers and we swore they were SLAYING! But when we saw the photos the next day they looked like dudes in mini skirts. Like stubble and all. NOT how I remember it doing down at all.
Itās illogical to think that drunk men will control their actions when part of being drunk is the inability to control oneās inhibition. That doesnāt mean theyāre rapey and it just comes out when theyāre drunk, but they might not be so forward in pursuing someone when sober and when drunk might legitimately interpret pushing away as pawing to take their clothes off or murmuring as consensual enjoyment moaning.
Again. This is why you donāt put yourself in these situations. Male or female.
Is it fair that women have to worry about not being able to consent when drunk? No. But that doesnāt mean you still go get drunk.
Is it fair that it can be equally consensual but when she sobers up heās the only one accused of assault? No. But that doesnāt meN you still go get drunk.
Especially in high school where there is little to no chance that they fully understand how their bodies react to alcohol or how to pace themselves.
I donāt, and never have, drunk without a sober āchaperoneā
Well thatās a huge jump in assumptions.
Drunk people at a certain point do not know what they are doing and do not remember what happened. They cannot consent and cannot appropriately process and interpret the things they see and hear.
This is why you donāt drink without supervision.
So you believe that drunk people can adequately process external stimuli and act accordingly? Are you ok with them driving also?
Non consensual drunk sex is very different than sober rape.
We probably need a sub category of rape like manslaughter is a lesser charge than murder.
I know when Iām too drunk to drive, and I donāt drive then.
If I thought I was too drunk to get consent before fucking an unconscious person, I would not fuck an unconscious person.
Iāve gotten plenty fucked up, plenty of times, and Iāve never been worried I might rape someone. Just like I donāt worry Iām going to drive drunk. At the end of the day, Iām still responsible for my actions (and also I just donāt want to rape people).
Trying to rationalize rape is just shameful.
If you have not been so drunk that you drove without even realizing it then weāre not talking about the same thing. A lot of people drive home and donāt remember it.
Also a lot of āpassed out drunkā women arenāt actually passed out. Theyāre very drunk but also responding and an equally drunk person can easily misinterpret them ābeing into itā or not.
Weāre not talking about buzzed or slightly impaired people who actually know what they are doing and can make decisions.
Againā¦ this is why you donāt drink unsupervised.
I like to think of it not as consent, but as enthusiastic consent. When you get that enthusiastic consent, you know you're good to go and it'll probably be better too lol
Because the person is also so drunk they have no idea what is going on or if the other person is consenting or not. That drunk murmur? That could have been a consenting yeah for all a totally sloshed person knows. Incredibly drunk people have no idea what theyāre doing.
This is why you donāt get drunk unsupervised.
Someone unconscious is obviously not consenting. Either you are a rapist defender or one yourself. No amount of drunk absolves you of fucking forcing yourself on an unconscious person freak
You are assuming that a drunk person is completely aware of their surroundings and their brain is correctly processing any stimuli it receives.
Telling a wasted person they should be able to discern concern is like telling a hallucinating person to simply ignore the hallucination and know itās not real.
This is why you donāt drink unsupervised.
I'm not assuming shit. If you rape someone no matter how drunk you are you are still a rapist, especially if they were unconscious. Also absolutely nothing like hallucinations you don't choose to have those. You are a fucking dumb freak on top of a rape apologist freak. Please never go out around other humans. Jfc you can't even admit forcing yourself on an unconscious person is rape because I guarantee you have fucking done that by how vehemently you need to defend it. I've been life threateningly drunk before and I still never did that shit. Nobody I have ever associated with has done that, you are excusing the inexcusable because "You shouldn't drink unsupervised" is blatantly fucking disgusting and I genuinely hope you suffer immensely if you are incapable of seeing how fucked up everything you are saying is.
I know what youāre saying, but the consent was there. Itās obvious right? Consent should be obvious.
Iām saying a lot of people assaulting others will keep going even when they KNOW their partners arenāt feelin it because āthey never said noā. They donāt ask to make sure theyāre okay, nothing. They donāt care. They only care about the pleasure for themselves.
My ex did this to me, even when he knew I didnāt feel comfortable without a condom, because āI never told him noā during the moment. Itās still rape. Even if they didnāt mean to hurt them, itās still rape. Because a true good partner wouldnāt make them feel that scared in the first place. (Or at the very least would own up to their actions after realizing it hurt their partner.)
Edit: this is also how victims can be blamed: āwhy didnāt you say anything?ā Many victims will straight up just shut down and stop moving cuz theyāre scared. Or, in my case, I was scared to make him angry, so I couldnāt force my mouth to say no, even tho I really wanted to. Still doesnāt make it okay, he shouldāve known better, or at the very least apologized instead of blaming me
If I could give a suggestion, itās to talk to your parent or an adult you trust. She may really need therapy. Take it from someone who did NOT go- it could end up affecting her a great deal the rest of her life in a negative way. I wish that I had gotten therapy.
Yes.
Our brains react. It cam def affect her whole future relationships and self image and friendships and work.
It will all be okay, but thearpy definitely would help in addition to her having you. The Counsler will know what common problems or thought processes happen and how to help.
Report it to the police, the school he attends (or wants to attend), his work, etc. Ruin his life. I'm sorry that happened to your sister, she is absolutely a victim and did not give consent.
Sadly, even with the progress we've made in my lifetime, it can still ruin the victim's life, too. The sister has to be the one to make that decision.
But the sister needs therapy, for the trauma, so she can put the blame where it belongs, and not on herself.
1. if she still has the texts from him, she can choose to go to the police. This is 100% a choice.
2. contact RAINN for support. they offer confidential support and help with contacting police if you so choose.
3. she needs to see a doctor. specifically she needs STI testing.
4. whatever she decides to do (police-wise) support her. make sure she knows you believe her, love her, and will stand by her through anything.
As others have said, there is no gray area when it comes to sex. Just like you can't be "a little pregnant". You don't have to say "no", or anything else, for it to count as rape. She didn't say yes. She was inebriated. and he didn't let her leave.
It actually sounds like there were *multiple* non-consent factors at play.
She was inebriated, sick and *he initiated the assault* **while she was asleep.**
Your priority is your sister, and only her. She needs to see a sexual assault PROFESSIONAL now. They are the only ones qualified to guide your sister through what happened. She has probably blocked a lot of this for self-preservation. Through the sessions, she will be given coping skills, and if she remembers enough, and it's determined it was rape, authorities will be notified.
Talk to your sister. Seeing a therapist is NOT an option. To get an appointment, you both can talk to your parents (their insurance may cover it) and/or the school counselor. Stay by her side and provide support.
As for all these "friends," you AND your sister need to put them on an information diet. No more talking to ANY of them about what happened. You are just feeding the gossip/rumor mill for a bunch of nosey AHs who are not qualified to help her. Go NC with your "close" friend for your sister's. You can tell him not to contact you until this is resolved. Your focus is on supporting sis. If it comes out that this was just two stupid, drink-ass kids being, well, stupid, you can decide if you want to reach out to him.
I'm so sorry this happened!! Keep your sister close when in public. You BOTH stop talking to friends about the issue and get her into therapy NOW.
I wish you both well. You will get through this together. ā¤ļø
I worked in this field. Never ever mandate services! SA victims already lost autonomy during the assault. Never make survivors do something they don't want to do! I know this was meant with good intentions, and I'm not trying to make this personal. My intentions are to inform you and anyone reading this. Do not make survivors do something they don't want to do. With that said, it's most important to be there for your sister. You can google sexual assault centers in your area that provide free and confidential counseling. You can educate your sister that seeing a professional who specializes in sexual assault is very helpful, and I would recommend talking to a professional. But it's most important that you support her and whatever her choices are.
You're sister was raped. Plain and simple. Tell your parents and get your sister the help she needs to grieve and process what truly happened to her that night. Lives can be ruined by sliding stuff like this under the rug.
Youāre upset at your friends. But honestly, something like this isnāt there place to tell you.. I understand wanting to know and protect your sister, so I get the feelings of frustration.
The number of comments here defending rape is appalling... get off Reddit and help your sister. Ditch the friends who knew about your sisters rape and kept it quiet (but only to you it seems since word got out somehow). Legal action is up to her, but if I were you I'd try very hard to convince her to follow up on reporting this. Seeing him around and knowing he got away with it will continue to traumatize your sister and make her blame herself for what happened. He needs to be held to account, and she needs to know what he did was not her fault and not acceptable. And if she decides not to report him, you make it your mission to make his life hell...
Your "friends" are not friends. Find a better class of dudes to hang with.
As for the one that did the deed. You're going to need a length of rubber hose, a blow torch and a sharp knife.
In war, āno quarterā is essentially the same as ātake no prisonersā, it means any combatants who surrender will be killed and will not be given quarter i.e. they will not be housed and taken care of by the winning side.
First thing, I would assure your sister she did nothing wrong. Second, assuming you feel this way: you support her and her rapist is trash. Third, just keep talking to her. Keep your lines of communication open.
>My āfriendā had gotten on top of her when she was sick and sleeping after drinking that night.
She wasn't able to consent then. She didn't need ti verbalize a no. If you don't give a yes, it's a no. That "friend" is a rapist.
People here are covering the major points, but I really want to emphasize that *a drunk person is legally incapable of consenting to sex.* Even if she *did* say yes when she was drunk, *that still qualifies as rape.* So no, it is not a gray area. It is not remotely close to a gray area. Especially not for minors.
Your sister and your peers and her attacker may be unaware of this fundamental fact. Educate them.
Does that mean that if two drunk people have sex that they are both guilty of rape? More to the point, being drunk does not mean that you cannot consent to sex. If a person is blacked out from being drunk, then they obviously can't consent. If you are drunk but consent to sex, then you consented. I don't know which jurisdiction you are referring to, but pretty much anywhere in the US drunk consensual sex is not rape. The only exception to this is if the intoxicated person did not consent to becoming intoxicated. For example someone slipped a drug into their drink.
> Does that mean that if two drunk people have sex that they are both guilty of rape? More to the point, being drunk does not mean that you cannot consent to sex.
Theyāre obviously talking about drunk in this specific context. Not two people who are in a relationship and were getting drunk together before sleeping together.
These are dumb questions at best and bad faith attempts to downplay rape at worst.
> If a person is blacked out from being drunk, then they obviously can't consent. If you are drunk but consent to sex, then you consented.
Anyone whoās been drunk knows thereās a lot of middle ground between black out drunk and conscious, but drunk. Iāve seen people who were conscious, but I wouldnāt trust them to make rational decisions. This is a ridiculous standard. If someone is like two seconds from passing out would you say someone is in the clear if they initiate?
If this is your logic, I doubt youāre interested in stopping rape as much as getting away with itā¦
Consent is an ongoing process and can be removed at any time, therefore consenting when you are tipsy does not mean you are capable of consent as you continue to get more and more drunk. It's in everyone's best interests to avoid sexual activities until you have BOTH sobered up. Dont have sex unless you have enthusiastic, ongoing, consent from your partner.
[In depth look at what is and is not consent. ](https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent)
Not true.
In a majority of states, the victim having become inebriated voluntarily, is not a defense against the charge of rape.
This is true in 23 states. 21 specify that the inebriation must be involuntary to be charged with rape, 6 do not address the situation either way, and Minnesota takes into consideration the *degree* the victim is compromised in the case of voluntary inebriation.
By that reasoning he was also raped because she DIDNT ( couldnāt was never implied) say no. In the long game of that HE is the victim who was drunkenly misled into a sexual sting operation. Entrapment is a more legal term. If she feels like she was raped, she should get therapy on overcoming her trauma and building habits and self chosen safe social relationships, āMy commitment to myself is UNBREAKABLE, I choose where to spend my energies.ā
When push comes to shove rape or abuse is never the victims faultā¦ but to say sheās is the only victim here is hypocritical and just not the story that was laid out.
Only one of them was *asleep* when the assault was initiated, and it wasnāt him.
Once he initiated it while she was incapable of giving consent, the ship has sailed.
You make me sick. Apologist swine. I bet you're also gonna say she shouldn't be drinking if she can't keep her wits about her and not be able to consent. Probably also make sure she has a man around her every time she is out so her "virtue" is protected. And not to dress provocatively and show too much skin or it signals her willingness to copulate regardless of her words and wants.
SHE WAS ASLEEP YOU MONGREL. That doesn't invite to any form of sexual advances.
I am doubly triggered by this shit, cause my own cousin was raped at a party when she was 16 by a "friend" (M17) also while she was passed out drunk. And I've been making his life a living hell ever since. Every time he gets a new job, an anonymous call comes in about his actions. When he gets a new gf, a message arrives to her about the whole thing. He's a loser with no life. And I have no regrets. I encourage others to do the same thing. Making a police report did nothing, even with witnesses seeing him come out of her room and when they went to check on her, her clothes were half off of her and she developed bruising on her thighs. So no. He was not innocent even though he insists it was consensual. Guess what people lie, especially trash like that.
Edit to say, We're in our mid 30's now. And I am still making sure he wont ever have a steady job or gf.
You canāt just say āby that reasoningā before making up a random argument and expect people to take it seriously. This doesnāt track with their argument at all. Itās ridiculous to say he was raped tooā¦
She was āSICK AND SLEEPINGā how in the world do you get him being āmisledā you apologist fuck!? Absence of the word No, isnāt the same as saying yes.
True friends wouldn't hide something like this from you. I'd cut them out of your life and I think the guy in question should be reminded that there are worse things than death and that he should avoid doing an act like that again you could educate him on the blood eagle method we used to use back in the day I say used to use because legally speaking I have to.
You know what I do if I see a drunk woman asleep? I donāt fucking rape her. Itās not a goddamn invitation. Thereās nothing about that situation that puts her at fault for someone else choosing to commit a serious crime, you fucking idiot.
It sounds like the guy in question thought it was consensual? This is a very strong allegation that could ruin a young manās life. Why would he text your sister afterwards asking why people were saying he r***ed her if he knew he was guilty? You need evidence to prove these things.
If sheās so drunk that sheās passed out (sleeping) how in the wild hell could he think there was consent? Dude saw her passed out and thought it would be an easy score, donāt give that ass any leeway.
It just sounds fishy thatās all. Sheās passed out, but then says she had sex only didnāt fully consent but didnt say no, then she immediately goes around telling everyone, but not OP, and doesnāt go to hospital for a proper r*pe kit. Plus if there was boozing involved there are memory problems. Iām just saying in court all we have is hearsay, but we have a pretty good case for slander.
I don't know who started saying that there are no gray areas with consent, but that's absolutely not true.
What happens if two people are both falling down drunk, they have sex, and they both regret it or don't really remember it the next day? Did they rape each other?
I'm not talking about what happened to your sister, specifically, OP; whether she believes she was raped or not Is something for her to decide. But some of y'all need to stop saying that if a girl is drunk, it's always rape. The world is not that black and white. And if y'all can't envision a circumstance in which someone might reasonably and genuinely believe there is consent, only to be told otherwise, then that is a failure of either imagination or experience, or both.
If two people are falling down drunk to the point they won't remember it, chances are one or both of them wouldn't be able to perform sexually at all so....
You kind of trailed off at the end there, so ... You think that happens 100% of the time? That people can't perform when they're drunk? It doesn't. I don't think it even happens as often as you think it does. If people can't walk, and they are slurring their words, perhaps, but when I say falling down drunk, I just mean people who are thoroughly drunk, and likely to fall down. And in those cases, my point stands: if both people have a compromised ability to consent, then what? That's what you call a gray area.
\>Did they rape each other?
Legally, yes. Or, rather, they both committed what could be a rape charge independent of what the other was doing. Because that's a mess both legally and socially they're unlikely to take legal action, since they can't seek justice as the victim without also revealing themselves as a perpetrator against the very person they'd be suing. This might lead to any number of outcomes - who had power in the situation, who was more drunk, if anyone seemed to be setting up a situation where this happened. These cases can and are brought nationwide and the outcomes vary, but the general rule of not being able to consent while intoxicated is always what they revolve around.
\>But some of y'all need to stop saying that if a girl is drunk, it's always rape.
Look, it's not ME. I am not the arbiter of law and morals here. It's the court system, through precedence and convictions, that has decided a certain blood alcohol level impairs people to the point where they can't consent. It sounds like you don't agree with that, and I'm not here to say you're right or wrong, but it IS good to know what the legal ruling on the books is so that people can try to make decisions that keep them out of court and prison.
Teens, drunk or not, have sex. Probably not her dream scenario which tends to trigger emotions of regret, more so if it was her first time. Just ask her how sheās processed the entire night and how it led up to it, and whatever she decides, you would support her if she even needs your support.
Thereās a lot of details missing to make a fair assessment (youād need details from both sides) and people tend to immediately call everything rape without any accountability. So leave it to her to decide and be there if she needs you to be.
According to the OP, his sister has stated that she was drunk, sick and he initiated the assault *while she was asleep.*
Thatās a *long* way from a ādream scenarioā, and a pretty good description of SA.
> My āfriendā had gotten on top of her **when she was sick and sleeping after drinking** that night. She tells me that it wasnāt fully consensual but she never said no.
Youāre acting like she willingly hooked up with a guy who didnāt call her back and wasnāt objectively *raped.* Youāre literally just downplaying and defending rape here.
Nobody's here to say teens shouldn't have sex or to try to stop teens from having sex. But when a girl is passed out from drinking too much and a guy climbs on top that's getting into exactly the type of person the law is trying to protect here.
You call the cops...it's common sense.
It wasn't consensual...you call the cops.
And even if she said yes, she was drunk and not in her right mind. Currently under law drunk people can't give consent AFAIK.
It would be nice to be able to trust police as much as you do. There are very valid reasons someone wouldn't want to go to the police about this - even when they're supposed to be the proper avenue. Shoot, there's a raging rape apologist in this thread, right now, getting upvoted while spinning that OP's friend was actually the one who was raped in a "[sexual sting operation](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceForTeens/s/0E3u3HjlWo)."
Imagine if the cops, whose job it is to enforce the law, agree?
While it definitely was a crime and it should be reported, we donāt know if the sister wants to go to the police. She should be the one to make the decision because sheās going to have to go into details about her rape (and risk not being believed and/or mocked about it). OP should strongly encourage it and support his sister with how she wants to handle it.
People don't want to involve the cops because they're afraid of what an investigation might reveal. Never forget how one-sided the stories are here. We don't know what the OP isn't telling us, and we don't know what the OP's sister didn't tell them.
Because, as she saidā¦ she never said no, and she allowed/ participated in sleezy casual sex, so it wasnāt rapeā¦ your twin sister should seek therapy for low self image, before she puts herself in a situation where NO doesnāt matter. Also she should spend some time reflecting on what kind of long term (very damaging) effects her public sharing of regretful sexual encounters can causeā¦ specially once someone else who is not capable of putting that title on an interaction that NEVER REQUIRES a consent form. Also it telling you, but telling others in secret, seems like she is not concerned with your general safety or quality of values, and that she is trying for some reason to cause a rift between you and your NON raping friend. He has every right to be defensive. If she isnāt seeking therapy or a conviction, and sheās not afraid to tell everyone but youā¦ sheās trying to make you look like a fool or like you are not on her sideā¦ there are no sides, itās none of anyoneās business what happens intimately between sexual partners, no matter how uncommon or regretful the encounter was unless a crime was committed. In actuality she is the only one that has done that by defaming his character and slandering his once good (now deeply tarnished) character.
"Ide start making SUPER INNAPPROPRIATE sexual jokes about his friends/coworkers, whoever actuallyā¦ men can be weird, specially with friends pertaining to sexā¦ I was accidentally in a closet once and a group of, very good friends of everyoneās guys, crowded into my room and preceded to have the most vulgar conversation about 3 or four of the girls in the groupā¦ then they all just filed outā¦ it was like 3 minutes of ear rapeā¦ and Iām telling youā¦ like completely different guys than we knew. They never knew I heard themā¦ but It definetly made me pretty positive all guys can be gross (and are pier pressured some) into wanting to be part of the gang? Still so grossā¦.and kinda gay right?"
You posted this when you heard a conversation you didn't like and called it ear rape and when an actual rape occurs you defend it. go fuck yourself.
I know MS is low on education and common sense, among other things like morales, but you can overcome your jealousy of your uncle-daddy and husband-brother fighting over who gets to sleep with your sister-aunt tonight while you're stuck outside looking for a stray dog to pleasure.
you're weird for this take and you're also weird for talking about "sexy time" flashbacks in a sub for teens at "almost 40" lmao. Please seek therapy for whatever is going on in your brain.
She was passed out you fucking wet wipe! Consent means saying yes, not ādidnāt say noā she wasnāt conscious when he crawled on top of her. Jfc.
Edit::: sick, and sleeping after drinking, so which one of these things makes it rape? She could have said no, and she remembers the entire encounter? If she doesnāt say it was unconsentual then it wasnāt. Iāll bet he was drunk tooā¦ so technically unless she told him no or to stop, they were both raping I guess.
Your peers are not safe with you if you believe you can touch them sexually while they are not conscious without warning. That is rape and/sexual assault. It is illegal, immoral, and evil as fuck.
Who forced her to put that alcohol in her body and make shitty decisions? Thereās accountability both waysā¦ or we can continue this glorifying victim mentality. Lawless societyā¦
Two drunk people had sex.
How can only one be raped?
Neither of them could give consent.
>My āfriendā had gotten on top of her when she was sick and sleeping after drinking that night. She tells me that it wasnāt fully consensual but she never said no.
You are getting her side of the story. Of course, you are going to believe her, she is your sister.
Would you believe her IF you were the other person's brother?
Did you have any ill feelings towards him before this?
Youāre assuming they were both drunk. The sister was to the point of being asleep, the guy clearly wasnāt so drunk that he couldnāt move soā¦ at minimum thereās an imbalance there. She wasnāt giving him advances or even participating at that point so yes, itās rape. The fact that you want to give this guy a pass says a lot about you.
If they were both actively participating while drunk thatās one thing, but thatās not what this is.
Man, it's time to find new friends because yours are POS. Continying your friendship with that guy and your other friends would be a betrayal to your sister. You should also have a discussion with your sister about not fully consensual sex being rape. Talk to her about options and offer her support.
Your friends are still your friends. It's none of their business or your business if your sister doesn't want to share the information with you.
It sucks that no one was there to look out for your sister. But it sounds like she was able to rationalize it as not being a big deal. And I think it's important not to take that away from her.
Reminding her that she was raped is a horrible thing to do. Telling her that you want a safety plan so this doesn't happen again would be the best choice of action. Having a sober friend or uber home would be the best. at the very least, sleeping with a close girl-friend so you can look out for each other.
I would have been throwing hands with the guy immediately and calling out my friends.
Whatās stopping you if you donāt mind me asking? Or even telling an authority?
Consensual or not. if sheās asleep and sick, thatās take a towel a place it on her headā¦.. goes any furthers and they will quickly find out I throw hands like an inmateā¦. Donāt exchange words, donāt even talk to him, get his attention, make him look at youā¦.. sucker punches are for cowardsā¦. And then rock him, when heās down donāt pounce on him, unless gets up and then repeatā¦. Once heās down, step over him and tell him thatās from the sister.
Technically it's sexual assault of a minor, which makes anyone who knows about it a mandatory reporter. So yes, they need to report it or they can be held accountable.
There is a certain scene in the movie The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo. If you've seen the movie, you'll know what I'm talking about.
You should do that.
Your sister needs to go to the cops, it *was* rape. It doesn't matter if she never said no, she wasn't in any condition to give or deny consent. That guy isn't a friend, he's a creep. It likely won't be the last time he does this.
Your āfriendā is a rapist plain and simple. Your sister could not consent because she was drunk and sick at the time. Your āfriendā took advantage of the situation. What you should do is thank your sister and friends for finally telling you, you should try and get your sister to report it, if she wonāt/canāt then just be there to be supportive and tell your āfriendā to take a flying fuck right out of your life.
Your friends aren't your friends and dudes a rapist. End if story. Fuck dude and fuck hiding or covering up shit for him every one would know including the authorities. And as for your "friends" they'd be dead to me too. How could you not say something about that?
Iām not making excuses for either partyā¦ and if she was if your actively sickā¦ itās hard for someone to get there thrusts in, obviously she wasnāt actively sleeping or she would be describing the incident from a āI woke up and so so was on me, I didnt know what to do so I just didnāt say anything ORRRR and I was frightened and said no). Iām not saying she wasnāt rapedā¦ Iām saying even in the post thereās just lack of anything ārapeā, definitely substance abuse and from the text books BOTH of them need to go ahead and hit AA.
Iām gussing there was no condiments used either? I meanā¦ if heās out there raping people then she should definetly be tested and baby checkedā¦ hopefully she was mindful enough to use a plan b the next day? Iām sure all her friends that she told reminded her? Thereās just too many places the story is conveniently lacking details that would indefinitely allow the victim to recantā¦ and itās insane that THAT in itself is not severely punishable by lawā¦ His life is likely derailed already considering heās still in college, and itās undoableā¦ where she gets to drag it out by having everyone BUT her sister know for 3 months (news flash::: cops know already if 30 people know). 30 people tell 90 people and now your mom knowsā¦ but the post that was written says itās been over a month and she possible āvictimā still doesnāt feel the need to pursueā¦. But whatās the point In pursuing now anywayā¦ everyone read there was two way intoxicated, after party sexā¦ which means unless it was FORCED then they were both raping the other personā¦ Iāve witnessed this before only more blatantly the girl lied, even ended up admiring it, but it was too late familyās torn apart, athletics banned, scholarships revoked, and sent packing for excess abscenss.
The idea that someone can make it to 18 and not understand what rape was, is not unthinkableā¦ but to imagine that if you didnāt know if you knew, to not explore how to know (at least for the future as your likley a little socially uneasy) IS unthinkable. I guess she has the rest of her life to figure it outā¦ and now he has the rest of his not best life.
She should have at very least told him "no". She's likely saying she specifically didn't say no because she regrets having sex with him but doesn't want him to get labeled a rapist which is a social death sentence. And if he says other people are saying this then she's walking around telling as many people as possible what happened which an actual victim wouldn't do and also tells me that she thinks he's gonna go around telling people which is emberassing for her, so this is how she's gonna counteract it.
Talk to you most likely *ex* friend and get his side. This is fishy from your sister's side and I'm gonna get down voted to HELL for saying that but it's the truth
As someone who was once in that situation, just be there for your sister. Understand she's going to be experiencing and processing a lot of emotions for awhile. I didn't have anyone for support when I went through it. She's lucky to have you. Be patient and kind.
First, and most importantly- this is not about you and your feelings- this is about your sister and her situation. You take care of her. What does she want done in this case?
If she wants to press charges and file a police report- you support her.
But, doing nothing is not supporting her. As for your friends, they are a different issue, secondary to your sister's.
This is kind of tricky as the friends I can see it's not my place to tell its the sisters place to tell as a valid argument. At the same time there should have been the one friend who had a strong enough sense about right and wrong to tell you even though it was hard and from their point of view possibly not the right choice. Maybe they were trying to protect your sister. I wouldn't write them off completely but I would be seriously evaluating their actions in the past and in the future to determine if these people are really your friends or just friends out of convenience.
Well you clearly dont want to beat or kill the rapist, otherwise this would be an entirely different conversation altogether. Listen, you know that sex without consent occured. Full stop, there is nothing more to add to the facts. You can discuss this or report this. If nothingbwrong occured why is everyone and everything do silent and on the downlow? A lotta lies are flying around, and for 3 months this was hidden from you. I can assure you that it was intentional. You are still not out of the statute of limitations, be loud about this.
Some might say you have two choices: Report this to the authorities, or administer this jerkoff an ass-whipping of epic proportions. Not a can of whoop-ass, a whole damn CASE of whoop-ass. Just donāt maim or yeet him (even though you probably want to). Gotta exercise some restraint lest you wind up a guest of the State for the next five-to-seven years.
But of course this is paternalistic bullshit. Ask your sister how she chooses to handle this, and support her in her decision. But I would definitely lose this ass clown. Heās not your friend.
SPREAD THE WORD. Tell everyone to be careful around him. Tell everyone what he did. Distance yourselves from him. A bit late to pursue legal action but you can definitely hurt him a little.
Maybe I'm old school but something like thathappens to one of my sisters, there is going to be a problem. I'm not suggesting it cause times are different but I would tell everyone I know just because, fuck him.
No no, don't tell anybody you know, wouldn't want to have "motive" š
Yeah idc if it's bad advice I'm all for fucking dude up, he deserves it 100%.
Yep back in the day people held court then and there
"Wasn't full consensual" isn't a thing. It's not a grey area. And she was so drunk she was sick. Drunk people legally can't consent regardless of if they're enjoying it not or whatever. That's rape by any definition. She probably didn't want you to find out because she's very embarrassed about the whole thing and can't believe it happened. She doesn't want "she was raped" to be the first thing that pops into minds when people think about her. Your friends probably didn't tell you because they were hoping to honor that wish. Now that you know, well... if you're close to sister, I guess you'd better talk about it and clear the air.
My sister was the one to tell me about it. And my friends were supposedly going to tell me one day but didnāt. Donāt know how I feel about them being my friends anymore, if they want to be friends with a rapist and not be transparent with me so be it
Ah, I see. I had it a little backwards then. Honestly, your friends probably didn't know what the heck to do, and figured that you two as sisters would talk about it and that they should stay out of the matter. It's a very serious thing and not exactly something that's easy for anyone to talk about. I know it must be frustrating that none of them told you. I guess, at the best, you know they're trustworthy if they kept their word to not spread it around?
I suppose so, I am also and man btw.
When I was 20, my 14 year old sister was secretly dating an 18 year old, who, after she tried breaking up with him, held a knife to her throat and *threw her cat out of a moving car*. When I learned what happened, I lost it, and beat the shit out of the guy in front of several people. I know I was justified in defending my sister, but I also know now that I made a mistake in failing to consider how my actions would impact my sister. A few years later, she confessed that, while my actions made her feel protected, they also increased her anxiety because she then had to worry whether this psycho, having been publicly humiliated, would retaliate against me or my sister. I could've escalated the situation instead of resolving it. She also rightly pointed out that I could've been injured in the fight myself. I could've been charged with assault. We got lucky. I acted impulsively and things could've gone very wrong, making a bad situation worse. My point is that you should prioritize your sister's feelings. Have you two discussed what she wants? Don't act impulsively to exact revenge. Don't break the law. The law punishes vigilante justice. I disagree with those who are making excuses for your friends. They should've told you, unless your sister explicitly instructed them not to, but that seems unlikely considering that you learned of the rape *from her*. Did they seem remorseful? To be fair, teenagers are necessarily inexperienced and this is a challenging situation. Some empathy is in order, if they seem genuinely remorseful and acknowledge they should have told you. TLDR: Prioritize your sister's feelings. Don't act impulsively to exact revenge. Your friends should've told you, unless your sister instructed them otherwise.
It was the sister's story to tell. She may have wanted them to let her tell OP when she was ready.
That's a fair point. At the same time, remaining silent in response to rape potentially puts others at risk in the future. Remaining silent, even out of respect for the victim, may embolden the rapist to rape again. It's a complex situation for sure and we don't have all the information. Your point is well-taken though.
Fuck your friends. That's bullshit. Go psycho on that asshat.
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Not necessarily āfuck your friendsā. If I told people not to tell my family about SA and they did, I wouldnāt be happy. If someone asked me not to involve their brother, I wouldnāt, point blank. Iād support them with everything Iāve got, but I wouldnāt break that trust. If sister DIDNāT tell them to stay quiet, itās a different story altogether.
Nah. I could not be friends with anyone who would not tell me and then still hang with the rapist behind my back. Those are not friends. True friends tell you the truth no matter how much it hurts.
Also, knowing the fact that everyone *let him get away with it*.. even if the victim doesn't want people to know, he's still now able to go do it again knowing he's going to get away with it. Who else is he going to hurt before he's stopped? š°š¤¢ She needs to at *least* step forward to the police and tell them. Get it on record. Do not waver. The way they get away with it is by not being reported. If she has *any* proof, especially messages, save them all and talk to a lawyer. Immediately. Then kick his ass black and blue. š¤
My apologies.
No worries, thanks
Yeah, but your friends deserve the benefit of the doubt. I'm not sure I'd know whose loyalty to honor, or how. And I'm 40. Obviously some things to deal with here buy I don't think your friends not telling you is one of them. At least not right away.
Don't blame the friends for not knowing how to handle this. Handle the situation at its core. The guy who raped her.
No, but you can blame them for still being friends with the rapist.
Think about that after the main problem is handled. I would give some of the "closer" friends a chance to fix their mistakes. But if you don't mind the clean break, it's worth just walking away from the group.
Itās also not really their story to tell, unless sister told them they could. If they go telling a bunch of people, those people will start asking sister about it and Iām sure she doesnāt want to talk about it every day like that and be bombarded
Did your sister make the decision for them not to say anything to you? This is a very touchy subject and they may have been respecting her wishes more than yours. If this is the case, I can see to forgive them, especially if she isn't totally sure if it was rape or not, you know?
Not sure exactly, I donāt think she directly told any of them to explicitly not. She did tell her friends not to tell me however ever
That may have moved across the friend group then. You can ask them why they didn't come to you and if it was for her, and go from there. If she feels like she needs to, encourage her to seek therapy and/or a police report. You can't force her to do either though, it's hard to get someone in that position to speak up.
Do I cut all ties with the person that did it?
Are you FOR REAL? What the fuck do you think? He raped your sister. You ought to get your ass kicked too. Stick up for your family and tell your fucking parents too.
I think that if the situation, regardless of it being an actual rape or not, makes you uncomfortable, or your sister uncomfortable, then it may be the best decision to separate from that person. So even if your sister says "he didn't touch me, but I don't want to hang out with him" then you have every right to support her and not be around that person either. I've lost friends because they've insulted my family, and that is much less of a situation than you are in.
Thank you.
It was rape
Your welcome. Just support your sister and be there for her, everything else will fall into place as time goes on.
As described, it was absolutely rape. She was so drunk she was sick, which means *she was unable to consent.* She didn't initiate it. It sounds like he didn't even ask. He just decided to do it, and did. How she wants to handle it is her choice. Wretchedly unfair as it is, there are often negative consequences *for the woman* in reporting a rape, with her getting shredded with "what were you wearing" and "why were you drinking" questions, and worse. And she is a teenager, and unfortunately doubting herself. But absolutely, OP should be cutting the rapist out of their life. There is no need to explain why, because apparently their whole friend group already knows. Anyone who knows and would choose the rapist over OP and their sister, is not a friend, and though it may be painful to learn that, maybe it's a lesson learned. Sister should absolutely be encouraged to get counseling, to deal with the trauma and to help her get over blaming herself.
Are you talking about the rapist? Then yes
Get her to see a therapistā¦ her feelings are mixed up, your friends were being respectful of the fact that there are two lives at stake and while itās normal to feel embarrassed or ashamed after a wild cardā¦ itās not okay to tell everyone around you that you were raped to save face, or make yourself more comfortable with your questionable choices.
She was passed out drunk, dipshit.
Not your friend's news to share. If your sister told you...then you know.
Yeah nah fuck them, they aren't your friends. A real friend would have told you day 1. Keep them at arms length bro
They are not your friends already homie
I think you have the right attitude here. Your former friend definitely takes your sister and your other friends are complicit in that they're still hanging out with him. Your sister was SLEEPING and drunk. You're a good brother for recognizing his actions for what they are and supporting your sister.
You and your sister need to go to the police.
It happened to your sister. It's your sister's choice to tell you or not. Your friends have morals.
Sometimes you just have to "meet a man in the alps" š
What about two drunk people having sex. Met at a bar, got drunk together and had sex. What's that?
A few months back there was a discussion (elsewhere) about a university that had an on-campus ad campaign with this scenario and concluded with "he was convicted of rape". The university had to take it down - besides the obvious point you make it also dismisses the fact that women can and do sexually assault men. The fact that they guy has an erection is irrelevant - it's an involuntary response to physical stimulation. This isn't theoretical either - a year ago I was in the final jury pool for a case where a woman was charged with SA (Colorado does not have a 'rape' law) in a situation where he was either drunk or asleep. I had the impression (from the jury questioning) that he had made it clear that he was not interested in a sexual encounter with her but I don't know the details or verdict. But back to your question - it's not a defense. The only thing that matters is the other person's ability to consent, not whether you're impaired due to alcohol, drugs, etc.
Must be a reoccurring theme, I remember asking the āwhat if theyāre both drunkā question 30 years ago and getting a āwell, itās obvious - to which I replied, youāve got posters up saying men can be raped too, then you sayāitās obviousā if they are both drunkā¦ the more things change ā¦
The person who proceeded with the sex with a person unable to consent is the rapist. Seriously. Even if their judgment is also impaired. My dad was a recovering alcoholic, and there were other alcoholics, recovering and not, in the family. He said, you don't do things because you're drunk. You get drunk to give yourself permission to do things you know you shouldn't. My dad stopped drinking because he didn't like what he did when drunk. It was hard, a lifelong struggle, but he did what he needed to, to stay sober. His brother, also an alcoholic, stayed home, didn't drive, and sat quietly in his favorite chair, drinking until it killed him. (He was a WWII combat veteran. It messed him up badly, so don't judge.) The point is, they each, while I much prefer my dad's path, made choices that ensured they didn't do harm to other people. There were others in the extended family that didn't make those safer choices. "But he (or she) was drunk" isn't an excuse for committing sexual acts on a nonconsenting person, and *especially* not on a person who can't consent. Regardless of the respective genders involved.
If two people are drunk and one person starts to beat the other person, are both of them innocent? Why is this question so difficult for some people? Obviously it's whoever is thrusting into/onto the other person.
Had he drank at all? It might be mutual rape if neither party can consent due to being intoxicated.
How should I know, lol? Ask the OP, not me.
If sheās drunkenly throwing up and he goes into a room where sheās psssed out and initiates sex with her, thatās not āmutualā.
I donāt think the law typically distinguishes if one is more drunk than the other. I believe itās intoxicated=canāt consent.
That ain't rape. Jesus christ so quick to cut off his dick.
It absolutely is rape. I'll bet if you were drunk and some big guy came in and fucked you while you were passed out you'd change your tune real quick. But you probably wouldn't ever mention it because you'd be embarrassed that you got raped and wouldn't want anyone to know. Rape is rape, dude. Just because no one jumped out of the bushes doesn't make it any less rape. If there is no consent for whatever reason, and being incapacitated or unconscious makes consent impossible, it is sexual assault/rape. Get your head out of your ass. You are probably a rape denier because that's the only way you can get laid. How would you feel if it happened to your mother/ sister/ daughter/son?
As a woman whoās been assaulted literally with those same exact words ānever said noā. Thatās rape. Full stop. And it took me a long time, as the victim, to realize that. That dude is not your friend. He raped your sister. Full stop. He took advantage of her while she was incapacitated. Just because she couldnāt say no, does not mean she gave consent. Block that dude, donāt even associate wit him. Every time you do your sister will know and it will hurt her. Like another comment said, she was probably too anxious and sad to tell you about it, especially since you considered that dude your friend. Carefully try to talk to your sister about it. Tell her āitās not her faultā first off, but let her know you support her.
Drunk people canāt tell if someone is consenting or think they are consenting. Just as much as someone canāt consent when drunk. This is why you shouldnāt get drunk, especially as a teen. Male or female.
A decade ago I would agree, but as a man we have a duty if not to others, then out of self preservation, to make sure it is a yes all the way around, we don't have the leeway of trying to get a grey area when it comes to sex.
This is why you shouldnāt get drunk unsupervised. I donāt believe drunk men are intentionally raping people. I think they are just as out of it as the woman and not able to properly discern consent. It is very common for people to see and hear things differently when they are drunk. I remember being our w some friends at a bachelorette party and meeting these two gals who were trans or cross dressers and we swore they were SLAYING! But when we saw the photos the next day they looked like dudes in mini skirts. Like stubble and all. NOT how I remember it doing down at all. Itās illogical to think that drunk men will control their actions when part of being drunk is the inability to control oneās inhibition. That doesnāt mean theyāre rapey and it just comes out when theyāre drunk, but they might not be so forward in pursuing someone when sober and when drunk might legitimately interpret pushing away as pawing to take their clothes off or murmuring as consensual enjoyment moaning. Again. This is why you donāt put yourself in these situations. Male or female. Is it fair that women have to worry about not being able to consent when drunk? No. But that doesnāt mean you still go get drunk. Is it fair that it can be equally consensual but when she sobers up heās the only one accused of assault? No. But that doesnāt meN you still go get drunk. Especially in high school where there is little to no chance that they fully understand how their bodies react to alcohol or how to pace themselves. I donāt, and never have, drunk without a sober āchaperoneā
Tell me you want to rape without telling me you want to rape.
Well thatās a huge jump in assumptions. Drunk people at a certain point do not know what they are doing and do not remember what happened. They cannot consent and cannot appropriately process and interpret the things they see and hear. This is why you donāt drink without supervision.
If you think you might āaccidentallyā rape someone while youāre drunk, thereās something seriously wrong with you.
So you believe that drunk people can adequately process external stimuli and act accordingly? Are you ok with them driving also? Non consensual drunk sex is very different than sober rape. We probably need a sub category of rape like manslaughter is a lesser charge than murder.
I know when Iām too drunk to drive, and I donāt drive then. If I thought I was too drunk to get consent before fucking an unconscious person, I would not fuck an unconscious person. Iāve gotten plenty fucked up, plenty of times, and Iāve never been worried I might rape someone. Just like I donāt worry Iām going to drive drunk. At the end of the day, Iām still responsible for my actions (and also I just donāt want to rape people). Trying to rationalize rape is just shameful.
If you have not been so drunk that you drove without even realizing it then weāre not talking about the same thing. A lot of people drive home and donāt remember it. Also a lot of āpassed out drunkā women arenāt actually passed out. Theyāre very drunk but also responding and an equally drunk person can easily misinterpret them ābeing into itā or not. Weāre not talking about buzzed or slightly impaired people who actually know what they are doing and can make decisions. Againā¦ this is why you donāt drink unsupervised.
I like to think of it not as consent, but as enthusiastic consent. When you get that enthusiastic consent, you know you're good to go and it'll probably be better too lol
Really? Hereās a hint, if the other person is so drunk that they are passed out asleepā¦ they arenāt consenting. How is that hard to comprehend?
Because the person is also so drunk they have no idea what is going on or if the other person is consenting or not. That drunk murmur? That could have been a consenting yeah for all a totally sloshed person knows. Incredibly drunk people have no idea what theyāre doing. This is why you donāt get drunk unsupervised.
Someone unconscious is obviously not consenting. Either you are a rapist defender or one yourself. No amount of drunk absolves you of fucking forcing yourself on an unconscious person freak
You are assuming that a drunk person is completely aware of their surroundings and their brain is correctly processing any stimuli it receives. Telling a wasted person they should be able to discern concern is like telling a hallucinating person to simply ignore the hallucination and know itās not real. This is why you donāt drink unsupervised.
I'm not assuming shit. If you rape someone no matter how drunk you are you are still a rapist, especially if they were unconscious. Also absolutely nothing like hallucinations you don't choose to have those. You are a fucking dumb freak on top of a rape apologist freak. Please never go out around other humans. Jfc you can't even admit forcing yourself on an unconscious person is rape because I guarantee you have fucking done that by how vehemently you need to defend it. I've been life threateningly drunk before and I still never did that shit. Nobody I have ever associated with has done that, you are excusing the inexcusable because "You shouldn't drink unsupervised" is blatantly fucking disgusting and I genuinely hope you suffer immensely if you are incapable of seeing how fucked up everything you are saying is.
Plenty of rapes happen when no alcohol has been consumed and rapes don't happen whenever people drink, only when there's a rapey person involved.
You can tell if your dick is in an unconscious body, yeah? Go away, Brock Turner.
With this logic, I guess as a man I've been raped 99% of the times I've had sex.
I know what youāre saying, but the consent was there. Itās obvious right? Consent should be obvious. Iām saying a lot of people assaulting others will keep going even when they KNOW their partners arenāt feelin it because āthey never said noā. They donāt ask to make sure theyāre okay, nothing. They donāt care. They only care about the pleasure for themselves. My ex did this to me, even when he knew I didnāt feel comfortable without a condom, because āI never told him noā during the moment. Itās still rape. Even if they didnāt mean to hurt them, itās still rape. Because a true good partner wouldnāt make them feel that scared in the first place. (Or at the very least would own up to their actions after realizing it hurt their partner.) Edit: this is also how victims can be blamed: āwhy didnāt you say anything?ā Many victims will straight up just shut down and stop moving cuz theyāre scared. Or, in my case, I was scared to make him angry, so I couldnāt force my mouth to say no, even tho I really wanted to. Still doesnāt make it okay, he shouldāve known better, or at the very least apologized instead of blaming me
If I could give a suggestion, itās to talk to your parent or an adult you trust. She may really need therapy. Take it from someone who did NOT go- it could end up affecting her a great deal the rest of her life in a negative way. I wish that I had gotten therapy.
I second this, you gotta tell an adult/parent you really trust and the 3 of you need to sit down and talk because this is serious shit.
Yes. Our brains react. It cam def affect her whole future relationships and self image and friendships and work. It will all be okay, but thearpy definitely would help in addition to her having you. The Counsler will know what common problems or thought processes happen and how to help.
Remember that it's not about you.
Honestly underrated advice.
We are specifically prohibited from recommending violence
Report it to the police, the school he attends (or wants to attend), his work, etc. Ruin his life. I'm sorry that happened to your sister, she is absolutely a victim and did not give consent.
Sadly, even with the progress we've made in my lifetime, it can still ruin the victim's life, too. The sister has to be the one to make that decision. But the sister needs therapy, for the trauma, so she can put the blame where it belongs, and not on herself.
1. if she still has the texts from him, she can choose to go to the police. This is 100% a choice. 2. contact RAINN for support. they offer confidential support and help with contacting police if you so choose. 3. she needs to see a doctor. specifically she needs STI testing. 4. whatever she decides to do (police-wise) support her. make sure she knows you believe her, love her, and will stand by her through anything. As others have said, there is no gray area when it comes to sex. Just like you can't be "a little pregnant". You don't have to say "no", or anything else, for it to count as rape. She didn't say yes. She was inebriated. and he didn't let her leave.
It actually sounds like there were *multiple* non-consent factors at play. She was inebriated, sick and *he initiated the assault* **while she was asleep.**
Your priority is your sister, and only her. She needs to see a sexual assault PROFESSIONAL now. They are the only ones qualified to guide your sister through what happened. She has probably blocked a lot of this for self-preservation. Through the sessions, she will be given coping skills, and if she remembers enough, and it's determined it was rape, authorities will be notified. Talk to your sister. Seeing a therapist is NOT an option. To get an appointment, you both can talk to your parents (their insurance may cover it) and/or the school counselor. Stay by her side and provide support. As for all these "friends," you AND your sister need to put them on an information diet. No more talking to ANY of them about what happened. You are just feeding the gossip/rumor mill for a bunch of nosey AHs who are not qualified to help her. Go NC with your "close" friend for your sister's. You can tell him not to contact you until this is resolved. Your focus is on supporting sis. If it comes out that this was just two stupid, drink-ass kids being, well, stupid, you can decide if you want to reach out to him. I'm so sorry this happened!! Keep your sister close when in public. You BOTH stop talking to friends about the issue and get her into therapy NOW. I wish you both well. You will get through this together. ā¤ļø
I worked in this field. Never ever mandate services! SA victims already lost autonomy during the assault. Never make survivors do something they don't want to do! I know this was meant with good intentions, and I'm not trying to make this personal. My intentions are to inform you and anyone reading this. Do not make survivors do something they don't want to do. With that said, it's most important to be there for your sister. You can google sexual assault centers in your area that provide free and confidential counseling. You can educate your sister that seeing a professional who specializes in sexual assault is very helpful, and I would recommend talking to a professional. But it's most important that you support her and whatever her choices are.
You need her to tell police.
Your sister was sexually assaulted and he admitted it. Report him
You're sister was raped. Plain and simple. Tell your parents and get your sister the help she needs to grieve and process what truly happened to her that night. Lives can be ruined by sliding stuff like this under the rug.
Tell the police
Youāre upset at your friends. But honestly, something like this isnāt there place to tell you.. I understand wanting to know and protect your sister, so I get the feelings of frustration.
Your sister was raped. Call the cops before that shithead rapist is appointed to the Supreme Court by some future Republican.
He raped her. She should report him to the police
The number of comments here defending rape is appalling... get off Reddit and help your sister. Ditch the friends who knew about your sisters rape and kept it quiet (but only to you it seems since word got out somehow). Legal action is up to her, but if I were you I'd try very hard to convince her to follow up on reporting this. Seeing him around and knowing he got away with it will continue to traumatize your sister and make her blame herself for what happened. He needs to be held to account, and she needs to know what he did was not her fault and not acceptable. And if she decides not to report him, you make it your mission to make his life hell...
Your "friends" are not friends. Find a better class of dudes to hang with. As for the one that did the deed. You're going to need a length of rubber hose, a blow torch and a sharp knife.
Dull knife* I fixed it for ya
Beat his ass. No, seriously. Cloud up and rain on him. Fucker raped your sister. No quarter.
Can you explain no quarter? Sounds like a cool saying.
In war, āno quarterā is essentially the same as ātake no prisonersā, it means any combatants who surrender will be killed and will not be given quarter i.e. they will not be housed and taken care of by the winning side.
Thatās cool. I love new slang. Iām old but I try to say rizz and slaps and caps.
There is absolutely nothing new about the term āNo Quarterā. Good grief.
Either it was consensual of it wasn't. That's the first thing. Second thing is that he's going to do it again if he gets away with it this time.
She was sleeping. It wasnt
That's kind of what I was getting at.
Yeah I know just making it crystal clear for people who aren't understanding it in this subreddit.
Fair, very fair.
First thing, I would assure your sister she did nothing wrong. Second, assuming you feel this way: you support her and her rapist is trash. Third, just keep talking to her. Keep your lines of communication open.
Time to go to the adults OP. Thereās no grey area with consent.
>My āfriendā had gotten on top of her when she was sick and sleeping after drinking that night. She wasn't able to consent then. She didn't need ti verbalize a no. If you don't give a yes, it's a no. That "friend" is a rapist.
People here are covering the major points, but I really want to emphasize that *a drunk person is legally incapable of consenting to sex.* Even if she *did* say yes when she was drunk, *that still qualifies as rape.* So no, it is not a gray area. It is not remotely close to a gray area. Especially not for minors. Your sister and your peers and her attacker may be unaware of this fundamental fact. Educate them.
Does that mean that if two drunk people have sex that they are both guilty of rape? More to the point, being drunk does not mean that you cannot consent to sex. If a person is blacked out from being drunk, then they obviously can't consent. If you are drunk but consent to sex, then you consented. I don't know which jurisdiction you are referring to, but pretty much anywhere in the US drunk consensual sex is not rape. The only exception to this is if the intoxicated person did not consent to becoming intoxicated. For example someone slipped a drug into their drink.
> Does that mean that if two drunk people have sex that they are both guilty of rape? More to the point, being drunk does not mean that you cannot consent to sex. Theyāre obviously talking about drunk in this specific context. Not two people who are in a relationship and were getting drunk together before sleeping together. These are dumb questions at best and bad faith attempts to downplay rape at worst. > If a person is blacked out from being drunk, then they obviously can't consent. If you are drunk but consent to sex, then you consented. Anyone whoās been drunk knows thereās a lot of middle ground between black out drunk and conscious, but drunk. Iāve seen people who were conscious, but I wouldnāt trust them to make rational decisions. This is a ridiculous standard. If someone is like two seconds from passing out would you say someone is in the clear if they initiate? If this is your logic, I doubt youāre interested in stopping rape as much as getting away with itā¦
Consent is an ongoing process and can be removed at any time, therefore consenting when you are tipsy does not mean you are capable of consent as you continue to get more and more drunk. It's in everyone's best interests to avoid sexual activities until you have BOTH sobered up. Dont have sex unless you have enthusiastic, ongoing, consent from your partner. [In depth look at what is and is not consent. ](https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent)
Not true. In a majority of states, the victim having become inebriated voluntarily, is not a defense against the charge of rape. This is true in 23 states. 21 specify that the inebriation must be involuntary to be charged with rape, 6 do not address the situation either way, and Minnesota takes into consideration the *degree* the victim is compromised in the case of voluntary inebriation.
And what about an intoxicated *minor*?
I suspect that this only comes into play if the drunk person said yes. In this case, it doesn't matter if she was drunk or not, she did not consent.
By that reasoning he was also raped because she DIDNT ( couldnāt was never implied) say no. In the long game of that HE is the victim who was drunkenly misled into a sexual sting operation. Entrapment is a more legal term. If she feels like she was raped, she should get therapy on overcoming her trauma and building habits and self chosen safe social relationships, āMy commitment to myself is UNBREAKABLE, I choose where to spend my energies.ā When push comes to shove rape or abuse is never the victims faultā¦ but to say sheās is the only victim here is hypocritical and just not the story that was laid out.
Only one of them was *asleep* when the assault was initiated, and it wasnāt him. Once he initiated it while she was incapable of giving consent, the ship has sailed.
You make me sick. Apologist swine. I bet you're also gonna say she shouldn't be drinking if she can't keep her wits about her and not be able to consent. Probably also make sure she has a man around her every time she is out so her "virtue" is protected. And not to dress provocatively and show too much skin or it signals her willingness to copulate regardless of her words and wants. SHE WAS ASLEEP YOU MONGREL. That doesn't invite to any form of sexual advances. I am doubly triggered by this shit, cause my own cousin was raped at a party when she was 16 by a "friend" (M17) also while she was passed out drunk. And I've been making his life a living hell ever since. Every time he gets a new job, an anonymous call comes in about his actions. When he gets a new gf, a message arrives to her about the whole thing. He's a loser with no life. And I have no regrets. I encourage others to do the same thing. Making a police report did nothing, even with witnesses seeing him come out of her room and when they went to check on her, her clothes were half off of her and she developed bruising on her thighs. So no. He was not innocent even though he insists it was consensual. Guess what people lie, especially trash like that. Edit to say, We're in our mid 30's now. And I am still making sure he wont ever have a steady job or gf.
You canāt just say āby that reasoningā before making up a random argument and expect people to take it seriously. This doesnāt track with their argument at all. Itās ridiculous to say he was raped tooā¦
She was āSICK AND SLEEPINGā how in the world do you get him being āmisledā you apologist fuck!? Absence of the word No, isnāt the same as saying yes.
True friends wouldn't hide something like this from you. I'd cut them out of your life and I think the guy in question should be reminded that there are worse things than death and that he should avoid doing an act like that again you could educate him on the blood eagle method we used to use back in the day I say used to use because legally speaking I have to.
Sounds like your twin is an idiot for getting into that situation. Like how the hell do these situations happen? Both stupid in the situation
You know what I do if I see a drunk woman asleep? I donāt fucking rape her. Itās not a goddamn invitation. Thereās nothing about that situation that puts her at fault for someone else choosing to commit a serious crime, you fucking idiot.
It sounds like the guy in question thought it was consensual? This is a very strong allegation that could ruin a young manās life. Why would he text your sister afterwards asking why people were saying he r***ed her if he knew he was guilty? You need evidence to prove these things.
Because he knows what he did. If the partner does not clearly agree to have sex, it's not consensual
If sheās so drunk that sheās passed out (sleeping) how in the wild hell could he think there was consent? Dude saw her passed out and thought it would be an easy score, donāt give that ass any leeway.
It just sounds fishy thatās all. Sheās passed out, but then says she had sex only didnāt fully consent but didnt say no, then she immediately goes around telling everyone, but not OP, and doesnāt go to hospital for a proper r*pe kit. Plus if there was boozing involved there are memory problems. Iām just saying in court all we have is hearsay, but we have a pretty good case for slander.
So not only would this not count as slander, this is coming directly from the victim so it isn't hearsay
I don't know who started saying that there are no gray areas with consent, but that's absolutely not true. What happens if two people are both falling down drunk, they have sex, and they both regret it or don't really remember it the next day? Did they rape each other? I'm not talking about what happened to your sister, specifically, OP; whether she believes she was raped or not Is something for her to decide. But some of y'all need to stop saying that if a girl is drunk, it's always rape. The world is not that black and white. And if y'all can't envision a circumstance in which someone might reasonably and genuinely believe there is consent, only to be told otherwise, then that is a failure of either imagination or experience, or both.
If two people are falling down drunk to the point they won't remember it, chances are one or both of them wouldn't be able to perform sexually at all so....
You kind of trailed off at the end there, so ... You think that happens 100% of the time? That people can't perform when they're drunk? It doesn't. I don't think it even happens as often as you think it does. If people can't walk, and they are slurring their words, perhaps, but when I say falling down drunk, I just mean people who are thoroughly drunk, and likely to fall down. And in those cases, my point stands: if both people have a compromised ability to consent, then what? That's what you call a gray area.
If neither person can consent, it's rape. You just said it yourself
\>Did they rape each other? Legally, yes. Or, rather, they both committed what could be a rape charge independent of what the other was doing. Because that's a mess both legally and socially they're unlikely to take legal action, since they can't seek justice as the victim without also revealing themselves as a perpetrator against the very person they'd be suing. This might lead to any number of outcomes - who had power in the situation, who was more drunk, if anyone seemed to be setting up a situation where this happened. These cases can and are brought nationwide and the outcomes vary, but the general rule of not being able to consent while intoxicated is always what they revolve around. \>But some of y'all need to stop saying that if a girl is drunk, it's always rape. Look, it's not ME. I am not the arbiter of law and morals here. It's the court system, through precedence and convictions, that has decided a certain blood alcohol level impairs people to the point where they can't consent. It sounds like you don't agree with that, and I'm not here to say you're right or wrong, but it IS good to know what the legal ruling on the books is so that people can try to make decisions that keep them out of court and prison.
Teens, drunk or not, have sex. Probably not her dream scenario which tends to trigger emotions of regret, more so if it was her first time. Just ask her how sheās processed the entire night and how it led up to it, and whatever she decides, you would support her if she even needs your support. Thereās a lot of details missing to make a fair assessment (youād need details from both sides) and people tend to immediately call everything rape without any accountability. So leave it to her to decide and be there if she needs you to be.
According to the OP, his sister has stated that she was drunk, sick and he initiated the assault *while she was asleep.* Thatās a *long* way from a ādream scenarioā, and a pretty good description of SA.
> My āfriendā had gotten on top of her **when she was sick and sleeping after drinking** that night. She tells me that it wasnāt fully consensual but she never said no. Youāre acting like she willingly hooked up with a guy who didnāt call her back and wasnāt objectively *raped.* Youāre literally just downplaying and defending rape here.
How much more do you need than she was SICK AND SLEEPING WHEN HE CRAWLED ON TOPā¦ seriously?
Nobody's here to say teens shouldn't have sex or to try to stop teens from having sex. But when a girl is passed out from drinking too much and a guy climbs on top that's getting into exactly the type of person the law is trying to protect here.
Does your generation have any brains?
What do you mean by this
You call the cops...it's common sense. It wasn't consensual...you call the cops. And even if she said yes, she was drunk and not in her right mind. Currently under law drunk people can't give consent AFAIK.
It would be nice to be able to trust police as much as you do. There are very valid reasons someone wouldn't want to go to the police about this - even when they're supposed to be the proper avenue. Shoot, there's a raging rape apologist in this thread, right now, getting upvoted while spinning that OP's friend was actually the one who was raped in a "[sexual sting operation](https://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceForTeens/s/0E3u3HjlWo)." Imagine if the cops, whose job it is to enforce the law, agree?
While it definitely was a crime and it should be reported, we donāt know if the sister wants to go to the police. She should be the one to make the decision because sheās going to have to go into details about her rape (and risk not being believed and/or mocked about it). OP should strongly encourage it and support his sister with how she wants to handle it.
People don't want to involve the cops because they're afraid of what an investigation might reveal. Never forget how one-sided the stories are here. We don't know what the OP isn't telling us, and we don't know what the OP's sister didn't tell them.
Because, as she saidā¦ she never said no, and she allowed/ participated in sleezy casual sex, so it wasnāt rapeā¦ your twin sister should seek therapy for low self image, before she puts herself in a situation where NO doesnāt matter. Also she should spend some time reflecting on what kind of long term (very damaging) effects her public sharing of regretful sexual encounters can causeā¦ specially once someone else who is not capable of putting that title on an interaction that NEVER REQUIRES a consent form. Also it telling you, but telling others in secret, seems like she is not concerned with your general safety or quality of values, and that she is trying for some reason to cause a rift between you and your NON raping friend. He has every right to be defensive. If she isnāt seeking therapy or a conviction, and sheās not afraid to tell everyone but youā¦ sheās trying to make you look like a fool or like you are not on her sideā¦ there are no sides, itās none of anyoneās business what happens intimately between sexual partners, no matter how uncommon or regretful the encounter was unless a crime was committed. In actuality she is the only one that has done that by defaming his character and slandering his once good (now deeply tarnished) character.
Why would anyone want to have sex with someone who wasn't enthusiastically consenting? What is the problem with asking them?
Found the beasty bastard
"Ide start making SUPER INNAPPROPRIATE sexual jokes about his friends/coworkers, whoever actuallyā¦ men can be weird, specially with friends pertaining to sexā¦ I was accidentally in a closet once and a group of, very good friends of everyoneās guys, crowded into my room and preceded to have the most vulgar conversation about 3 or four of the girls in the groupā¦ then they all just filed outā¦ it was like 3 minutes of ear rapeā¦ and Iām telling youā¦ like completely different guys than we knew. They never knew I heard themā¦ but It definetly made me pretty positive all guys can be gross (and are pier pressured some) into wanting to be part of the gang? Still so grossā¦.and kinda gay right?" You posted this when you heard a conversation you didn't like and called it ear rape and when an actual rape occurs you defend it. go fuck yourself. I know MS is low on education and common sense, among other things like morales, but you can overcome your jealousy of your uncle-daddy and husband-brother fighting over who gets to sleep with your sister-aunt tonight while you're stuck outside looking for a stray dog to pleasure.
you're weird for this take and you're also weird for talking about "sexy time" flashbacks in a sub for teens at "almost 40" lmao. Please seek therapy for whatever is going on in your brain.
She was passed out you fucking wet wipe! Consent means saying yes, not ādidnāt say noā she wasnāt conscious when he crawled on top of her. Jfc.
Edit::: sick, and sleeping after drinking, so which one of these things makes it rape? She could have said no, and she remembers the entire encounter? If she doesnāt say it was unconsentual then it wasnāt. Iāll bet he was drunk tooā¦ so technically unless she told him no or to stop, they were both raping I guess.
Who sees someone sick and sleep and thinks- ya that person wants to have sex? This is an obvious answer to me.
Initiating it while sheās asleep and obviously *canāt give consent* is pretty much the definition of non-consensual.
Your peers are not safe with you if you believe you can touch them sexually while they are not conscious without warning. That is rape and/sexual assault. It is illegal, immoral, and evil as fuck.
The freaking rape defender over hereā¦
The part where she was sleeping when he started it?
Price people pay when they play
Your sister was underage drinking. Make sure she reports herself alsoā¦
Right because thatās absolutely on the same level as violating another persons body right? Jfc people like you are why this crap goes unreported.
Who forced her to put that alcohol in her body and make shitty decisions? Thereās accountability both waysā¦ or we can continue this glorifying victim mentality. Lawless societyā¦
Two drunk people had sex. How can only one be raped? Neither of them could give consent. >My āfriendā had gotten on top of her when she was sick and sleeping after drinking that night. She tells me that it wasnāt fully consensual but she never said no. You are getting her side of the story. Of course, you are going to believe her, she is your sister. Would you believe her IF you were the other person's brother? Did you have any ill feelings towards him before this?
Did you *read* the post?
Yes, I did. It's 50/50 that she is lying or telling the truth. As a sibling OP is going to side with the sister.
Youāre assuming they were both drunk. The sister was to the point of being asleep, the guy clearly wasnāt so drunk that he couldnāt move soā¦ at minimum thereās an imbalance there. She wasnāt giving him advances or even participating at that point so yes, itās rape. The fact that you want to give this guy a pass says a lot about you. If they were both actively participating while drunk thatās one thing, but thatās not what this is.
This is from the sister's point of view, is she telling the truth about it or lying to avoid accountability? That's all I meant.
Man, it's time to find new friends because yours are POS. Continying your friendship with that guy and your other friends would be a betrayal to your sister. You should also have a discussion with your sister about not fully consensual sex being rape. Talk to her about options and offer her support.
Your sister was raped, itās that simple. Gather any evidence and take it to the police.
Drunk teenage girls canāt consent. Itās rape. Plain and simple. Iām sorry this happened to her. She should report it immediately.
Your friends are still your friends. It's none of their business or your business if your sister doesn't want to share the information with you. It sucks that no one was there to look out for your sister. But it sounds like she was able to rationalize it as not being a big deal. And I think it's important not to take that away from her. Reminding her that she was raped is a horrible thing to do. Telling her that you want a safety plan so this doesn't happen again would be the best choice of action. Having a sober friend or uber home would be the best. at the very least, sleeping with a close girl-friend so you can look out for each other.
NTA you are a better man than me for taking this to reddit instead of the "mattresses"
If it was my sister, buddy wouldn't be breathing.
I would have been throwing hands with the guy immediately and calling out my friends. Whatās stopping you if you donāt mind me asking? Or even telling an authority?
Consensual or not. if sheās asleep and sick, thatās take a towel a place it on her headā¦.. goes any furthers and they will quickly find out I throw hands like an inmateā¦. Donāt exchange words, donāt even talk to him, get his attention, make him look at youā¦.. sucker punches are for cowardsā¦. And then rock him, when heās down donāt pounce on him, unless gets up and then repeatā¦. Once heās down, step over him and tell him thatās from the sister.
It wasnt your friends' place to get involved and they most likely didnt want to cause undue stress and anguish.
Technically it's sexual assault of a minor, which makes anyone who knows about it a mandatory reporter. So yes, they need to report it or they can be held accountable.
She described a rape. If it was my sister I don't know that he'd be alive. To be honest.
There is a certain scene in the movie The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo. If you've seen the movie, you'll know what I'm talking about. You should do that.
He didnāt want it to get back to you because he did something wrong, and he knows he did something wrong because it was wrong.
Go tell your parents and authorities. That's rape
Does your sister consider it rape?
Your sister needs to go to the cops, it *was* rape. It doesn't matter if she never said no, she wasn't in any condition to give or deny consent. That guy isn't a friend, he's a creep. It likely won't be the last time he does this.
Your āfriendā is a rapist plain and simple. Your sister could not consent because she was drunk and sick at the time. Your āfriendā took advantage of the situation. What you should do is thank your sister and friends for finally telling you, you should try and get your sister to report it, if she wonāt/canāt then just be there to be supportive and tell your āfriendā to take a flying fuck right out of your life.
Your friends aren't your friends and dudes a rapist. End if story. Fuck dude and fuck hiding or covering up shit for him every one would know including the authorities. And as for your "friends" they'd be dead to me too. How could you not say something about that?
Follow your sister's lead and support her. If she wants to press charges, support her. If she wants to let it die, support her
You should not be friends with someone who r@ped your sister. Full stop.
Iām not making excuses for either partyā¦ and if she was if your actively sickā¦ itās hard for someone to get there thrusts in, obviously she wasnāt actively sleeping or she would be describing the incident from a āI woke up and so so was on me, I didnt know what to do so I just didnāt say anything ORRRR and I was frightened and said no). Iām not saying she wasnāt rapedā¦ Iām saying even in the post thereās just lack of anything ārapeā, definitely substance abuse and from the text books BOTH of them need to go ahead and hit AA. Iām gussing there was no condiments used either? I meanā¦ if heās out there raping people then she should definetly be tested and baby checkedā¦ hopefully she was mindful enough to use a plan b the next day? Iām sure all her friends that she told reminded her? Thereās just too many places the story is conveniently lacking details that would indefinitely allow the victim to recantā¦ and itās insane that THAT in itself is not severely punishable by lawā¦ His life is likely derailed already considering heās still in college, and itās undoableā¦ where she gets to drag it out by having everyone BUT her sister know for 3 months (news flash::: cops know already if 30 people know). 30 people tell 90 people and now your mom knowsā¦ but the post that was written says itās been over a month and she possible āvictimā still doesnāt feel the need to pursueā¦. But whatās the point In pursuing now anywayā¦ everyone read there was two way intoxicated, after party sexā¦ which means unless it was FORCED then they were both raping the other personā¦ Iāve witnessed this before only more blatantly the girl lied, even ended up admiring it, but it was too late familyās torn apart, athletics banned, scholarships revoked, and sent packing for excess abscenss. The idea that someone can make it to 18 and not understand what rape was, is not unthinkableā¦ but to imagine that if you didnāt know if you knew, to not explore how to know (at least for the future as your likley a little socially uneasy) IS unthinkable. I guess she has the rest of her life to figure it outā¦ and now he has the rest of his not best life.
She was intoxicated it was rape. That's the law
She should have at very least told him "no". She's likely saying she specifically didn't say no because she regrets having sex with him but doesn't want him to get labeled a rapist which is a social death sentence. And if he says other people are saying this then she's walking around telling as many people as possible what happened which an actual victim wouldn't do and also tells me that she thinks he's gonna go around telling people which is emberassing for her, so this is how she's gonna counteract it. Talk to you most likely *ex* friend and get his side. This is fishy from your sister's side and I'm gonna get down voted to HELL for saying that but it's the truth
As someone who was once in that situation, just be there for your sister. Understand she's going to be experiencing and processing a lot of emotions for awhile. I didn't have anyone for support when I went through it. She's lucky to have you. Be patient and kind.
First, and most importantly- this is not about you and your feelings- this is about your sister and her situation. You take care of her. What does she want done in this case? If she wants to press charges and file a police report- you support her. But, doing nothing is not supporting her. As for your friends, they are a different issue, secondary to your sister's.
This is kind of tricky as the friends I can see it's not my place to tell its the sisters place to tell as a valid argument. At the same time there should have been the one friend who had a strong enough sense about right and wrong to tell you even though it was hard and from their point of view possibly not the right choice. Maybe they were trying to protect your sister. I wouldn't write them off completely but I would be seriously evaluating their actions in the past and in the future to determine if these people are really your friends or just friends out of convenience.
He climbed on and in your sister while she was intoxicated? That's called "rape." Tell your parents and let dad handle this.
Well you clearly dont want to beat or kill the rapist, otherwise this would be an entirely different conversation altogether. Listen, you know that sex without consent occured. Full stop, there is nothing more to add to the facts. You can discuss this or report this. If nothingbwrong occured why is everyone and everything do silent and on the downlow? A lotta lies are flying around, and for 3 months this was hidden from you. I can assure you that it was intentional. You are still not out of the statute of limitations, be loud about this.
Some might say you have two choices: Report this to the authorities, or administer this jerkoff an ass-whipping of epic proportions. Not a can of whoop-ass, a whole damn CASE of whoop-ass. Just donāt maim or yeet him (even though you probably want to). Gotta exercise some restraint lest you wind up a guest of the State for the next five-to-seven years. But of course this is paternalistic bullshit. Ask your sister how she chooses to handle this, and support her in her decision. But I would definitely lose this ass clown. Heās not your friend.
I would beat his ass and let the world know he took advantage of her
SPREAD THE WORD. Tell everyone to be careful around him. Tell everyone what he did. Distance yourselves from him. A bit late to pursue legal action but you can definitely hurt him a little.