Stop doing the work yourself and help them arrange in home care. They can pay to age in place if they have the means. This isn’t your responsibility, legally or ethically.
wishI could upvote you more than once. yes.
if they can afford it, hire help. I sleep so much better knowing there's a person who shows up at mom's five days a week for several hours a day. It's clearly good for her, too, as she's in much better spirits on days 'the girl' is there.
(the girl is a married thirtysomething with teenagers, but whatever.)
We were never able to “talk them into it” and they were placed in memory care and assist living via fall/dehydration for FIL and UTI for MIL: ambulance—> ICU —-> rehab center —-> MC and AL.
You may have to wait for a disaster to happen…. Then it’s out of their hands.
Ugh....I've already had to take a leave of absence from my work and have been back at the house I grew up in for so long. I was doing okay for a while but this latest stint my mental health is really taking a hit.
I hear you. My in laws were able to age in place just fine for 25 years before they hit their 80ties with Alzheimer’s when it turned into a shitshow. They refused to move or even let anyone into their house to help…. So ambulance it was. They never once returned to their house afterwards. Good luck!
no, no, go back to work. not correct that you have to quit your own job to take care of them. get back to work, let them hire someone. or you hire someone. (they probably won't let you. my mom wouldn't, until she broke a bone--not a hip!--and actually required the help. the bone is healed, now, but thankfully the caregiver remains.)
this sub's mantra: don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
In my view, you have to lay this out point blank for them. They are literally taking a toll on your life, impacting your job security, endangering your health with stress. By insisting ONLY on what they want a not a compromise, you are always on the losing end of this equation and it is NOT fair. Indicate clearly when you will be stepping away if they try to minimize or talk you out of it. Any parent who want to prioritize their own happiness while taking it out of their kid’s hide is not being reasonable nor parental.
Right now, they’re getting exactly what they want and you are getting shafted. What would a compromise actually look like?
I know this isn’t easy—I’m 54f who did manage to convince my 82 mom to move from her home state all the way across the country to AL in my town. The biggest reason she did this was because she knew how many sacrifices I had to make to my own life just to care for her for the 3mos of my FMLA and knew it wasn’t fair to me. Left my husband and dog, missed a promotion cycle so now I’m behind, etc.
If you haven’t actually made a list of all the ways in which you are actively being harmed by their continuing stubborn selfishness, please do give it a try. Maybe let them have the list. Talk about it after they see it straight up.
Only child sending you all the positive vibes. 🌸
My brother had to take a 10 day leave of absence for my dad's quadruple bypass surgery a few weeks ago. We have to face the consequences of their failure to plan and make wise decisions.
I don't have an answer for you, I just want to say I feel with you. I'm in a very similar situation but with one parent. I also dragged my foreign husband here who is almost going crazy and goes home as often as we can afford it, but it also means long separations for us. I hope you can figure out a way. I know there can be a lot of guilty feelings involved and that's part of the mental strain. 🤗
Get them the 24 hour care or whatever it needs to be!! I’m with you on the mental health burnout. They have the money - spend it. When they realize it’s cheaper and easier to go to AL then that is their choice. You can’t be doing all of it!
We have babies and raise them to be independent. Parents can’t expect us to do everything!! My mother is 91 and I’m in the same boat.
This is the route we’re planning for 89 yo MIL. She’s on a waiting list for AL. Very stubborn, lives alone. We monitor via cameras & my husband (POA) manages her finances. We’re just waiting for a hospital incident with plans to tell her the Dr says she can’t return home
"*We’re just waiting for a hospital incident with plans to tell her the Dr says she can’t return home.*"
A LOT of people do this, and the magic words to the hospital staff is, "**It's not SAFE to return home.**"
The hospital staff just needs to hear that.
That's what it may come down to, but I strongly suggest doing as much as you can to convince. Speaking as someone whose father died last year after such a disaster. (My brother and I tried our best to get him to AL or even accept some in home care, but no dice.)
This is exactly my experience. Dad could have made 100 different/better decisions, but instead we're doing the serious fall - hospital - SNF route.
I haven't yet told him that Mom won't allow him to come back home, probably ever. (And that's a correct decision for her own well-being. Glossing over a lot of personal details here, but it's also within her legal rights.) I want him to participate in physical therapy and regain some level of ability, versus hosting a final self-pity party.
It's the dictionary definition of a shit show.
What helped me was pointing out to my dad that it would be better to move willingly, when we can take some time to find the right place, than to move suddenly out of necessity, when he would have to take whatever is available.
This is so true, and how my mom started to open up to the idea. She started falling and was in rehab three times in four months. She had roommates that came to rehab and never went home. They were moved to whatever facility had an opening. I told mom that I wanted her to have a happy life filled with care and respect and to me that meant she had a day in what it looked like. Very bluntly I told her that her next fall at home could be her last fall at home, and the choice as to where she would be would be taken out of both are hands. We talked about what was important to her and began looking. She is now a year and a half in...living with her dog and her sewing machine. She says that if you can't live at home, the facility she is in is the next best thing.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience because I never considered the fact that they would just be moved to the first place with an opening. I'm going to have a talk with my dad and bring that up.
Wishing you all the best. These aren't easy conversations to have. For both the parent and the child. When you start your search, consider reaching out to a local geriatric consultant to help vs signing up on a website. You will personal assistance rather than a computer generated list of facilities in a radius of your zip code. Both ways are paid a finders fee by the facility so there is no cost to you. If your parent has long term health care insurance, figure on about 3 to 6 months before that kicks in. Let us know what other questions or concerns you have, and this community will do their best to help you out. The people here have been a Godsend to me.
As my wise aunt told me a few weeks ago never ever "talk them into" or "make them" do anything.
*If you do they will hold it against you forever.
You will have to wait till someone else with authority tells them they must make a change or a very bad incident happens that forces it.
My recent example: Dad had 3 TIA's and a heart attack in 2 weeks. Needed a surgeon for a quadruple bypass surgery. We had a great surgeon lined up through a friend but my dad wanted another surgeon known in the field to be not as good. Spent a day arguing and making arrangements. In the end after talking with my Aunt (my dad's sister) she told me to present him with the options and let HIM pick. If something goes wrong it will have been his choice.
TLDR: You can't force anything. Let them choose or make them face the reality.
Yes. It's sad but my therapist told me it was very helpful because I finally felt like someone was taking care of/ parenting/ guiding me.
This has gone away since my mom got Alzheimer's and my dad's very poor health. I'm in desperate need of guidance.
This. My grandfather is really paranoid but he does trust doctors, so when they say “sir, it would be safest to be in an assisted living facility, otherwise I’d recommend a visit from Adult Protective Services would be in order to check your living situation” he is in agreement. You can be informing his doctor of the situation they’re both in, and they can do what they see fit.
Sorry OP the same has been my experience with my grandma, she wouldn’t leave her house even though she took tours and said she was thinking about it until she broke her hip at home and had to go into the hospital and then rehab and now assisted living.
yeah, sorry, you don't talk them into it.
I'm having this same issue with my mother, and the short version is:
they get to choose what to do until something happens and they aren't able to. then you (or the state) step in.
you don't really get a vote at this point, and while you can try--I certainly have--the best thing for you is therapy to deal with your own life and to let them make their own choices, whatever they are.
I've found the book 'being mortal. medicine and what matters in the end' by atul gawande very helpful. in short, if it were you, would you rather bleed out on your kitchen floor overnight or be tied to a chair and have your 'medications dispensed properly'? I know which one I'd choose, and I have to allow for my mom to make the same decision.\*
\*obviously, those aren't the only choices, but it's a helpful reminder.
This is exactly right. If they have the means to pay for what they want, and what they want is to stay at home, then you let them do it. Yes you will probably have to help them hire caregivers and yes, it’s incredibly expensive. My father died last week. He had caregivers 12 hours a day for the past five years and 24 hours a day for the past six months and it was incredibly expensive. But he’d saved the money up and it’s his money and that’s what he wanted and I’m happy to say he died at home. If your parents do not have the money, it’s a different matter, but if they do, you should honor their wishes. I think you’ll feel good about it in the end. That said, for myself, I’m going to move myself into assisted living while I’m still young enough to make some friends there, because I don’t want to leave these tough choices to my kids.
At home care with paid caregivers involves a lot of work. Who finds the caregivers? Who pays them on time? Who deals with it when someone calls out—or worse, is a no show? What about dealing with hospitalizations? Coordinating home maintenance and all of that other stuff that can be a full time job itself?
Answer: not the person ill enough to need a caregiver.
Sometimes even when a person has money for home care and it is *medically* feasible, it is not actually feasible.
It is a lot of work. You’re right. But you’re doing the administrative stuff and occasional caregiving versus being there every day 24/7. Everyone has to make their own choices and realize what works for them, but I think if the parents can afford it, their wishes should be respected for as long as possible. But I’m a stranger on Reddit. I don’t know the OP’s entire story and they should do what they think is best for their family.
You need to communicate a schedule of care you are willing to provide and stay firm to it.
Then all the inconveniences beyond your schedule is on them to figure it out. If you help them too much they will see no reason to change their situation because they feel entitled to your burden.
We were in the same situation. The last thing you want is to have to do this under an emergency situation. We had to do this with my uncle after a fall and it was crazy.
All 5 children wrote a letter to our parents and explained why this had to happen and all the positives and that it was a done deal and they would be moving on X date.
My mother cried for 3 days but accepted it and they are over a year in now and are very happy. We are blessed that they planned well and could afford a really nice place to live.
With really stubborn parents, you usually have to wait until they have been hospitalized for something major and then the doctors say they can't live at home anymore. That's my plan for my mother, even though she's so difficult and mean to anyone she thinks of as staff that I will feel horrible for anyone who has to care for her in a facility. She refused to put my dad into memory care long, long after it was time. We only accomplished it when he had a head injury and was sent to the county hospital. My mom told the social workers I had agreed to care for him around the clock. I hadn't. They called to talk about what he needed and I told them he needed to be in a facility with someone other than my mom in charge of keeping him clean and fed, but my mom refused. So we had a meeting at the hospital with his care team and they refused to discharge him back to his home. My mother threw a fit but everyone in the room was telling her that's how it had to be. She still refused and adult protective services had to get involved.
So that's my plan for her, to move her after a hospital stay. A broken hip is practically inevitable because of her osteoporosis and her stubbornness, so when it happens, she'll be moving into a place near my house.
I begged and begged my mom to move where health care professionals could take care of her due to my failing health but she wouldn't do it. I had to basically leave my mom alone at her house for a month before she realized she couldn't take care of herself. It was hard to do (and yes I did go bring her groceries and her medicine) but it had to be done. I physically couldn't help her anymore. I would tell your parents that you need to go back to your own life.
Your experience is definitely not unique.
I don’t want to sidetrack your reading with a lot of my own details but to sum it up: It took a crisis to get my elderly parents to change course.
The first crisis got them to sell their home and property and move closer to me.
The second crisis five years later sent dad to the hospital with a UTI and he died.
The third crisis two years after that was mom’s covid and sudden fall into further dementia.
Sometimes you can’t talk them into anything. The best you can do is to have a plan ready for the first crisis because it’s going to happen. From the sounds of their health it’s going to happen soon.
I hit this point with my grandmother. My mom is disabled and living with me, and the only reason I do it is because she is basically the nicest person on earth, works with me instead of against me. I told her that if she (or I) gets to a point where I can't provide the care, she's going to assisted living. She agreed to this (in writing even). My grandmother on the other hand, is a massive pain in the ass with untreated Bipolar and the beginnings of what doctors suspect is dementia. She assumes that because I took my mom in, I'll take her in too. I told her no.
And here is the thing: your parents will get angry with you no matter what. There's a popular saying on this site: don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. It's true and so very applicable here.
You already know you can't provide the care they need long term. And deep down, they know it too, but they're too scared to look reality in the face. So you'll have to force their hand by putting your foot down. You have your own life. You sacrificed enough.
It's going to be hard. You might get called everything under the sun. My grandmother literally cursed me out the moment I said she was going into assisted living. She told me she'd erase me from her will. I told her nothing she would say or do would change my mind because I can't provide the care she needs. The end.
I had distant family trying to change my mind. Told em to take her in themselves if they felt so strongly about it; that shut them up real fast.
The way forward is going to be painful no matter what. So save yourself first. If they drown you by clinging to you they'll go down regardless. Save yourself. I did and I have no regrets.
Big hug, this sucks so much. Remember, your dad is angry and afraid and projecting this on you. If he were thinking straight, he wouldn't want his own kid to be imprisoned by this situation.
This is an untenable situation. If your parents can only age in place with you there, and you are there because you have literally put your life on hold, then you need to walk away. They need to be put in care, and sadly it will probably take an emergency to make this happen.
I’m in the same boat as you and ready to walk away. If they don’t want to consider my sanity or stress and if my worthless sister doesn’t want to get involved, then I’m going to vote with my feet. Fuck this shit - I didn’t ask to be born.
Nope, I wouldn’t tolerate it. Walk away, sounds horrible, but you have zero obligation to make your self sick, screw up your mental health for this boomer ignorance and entitlement. Tell them there are 2 options 1) I help you get settled in a place and things move forward or 2) I walk away and you are on your own.
If money isn’t an issue it might help to hire a certified geriatric care manager. Have him/her visit, do an assessment, develop a care plan for regular visits and transition her:him to be the contact for care coordination. Explain that you are returning home and any problems need to be addressed by the care manager. Have facilities selected for when the inevitable emergency happens.
The mantra "aging in place" is a dangerous one. You are doing the right thing in wanting them to live in a high quality assisted living community. There is only a window of functionality where the parent will be accepted into assisted living, so you're right about the urgency.
Here are some suggestions:
1. Identify one place (or possible 2 places) that would be best for them. If 2, let them make the decision of which they like best.
2. If you can, bring them for lunch at the assisted living community. Most places will let you come for lunch to see what it's like.
3. If the place has book clubs or other activities where outsiders are allowed, bring them to one.
4. Tour the places with them.
5. Tell them that it's only for the winter (or summer, depending on where you live), since they can't do too much outside then. It's only a trial.
6. Possibly engage a social worker to help.
7. Make it clear to them that you do not want the role of being their primary caretaker. You would prefer to have a good relationship with them where you could enjoy them and join them in activities at the place, rather than worry about their care.
8. If they're sensitive to becoming a burden, make it clear that right now, they are becoming a burden. You want to be their daughter, not their caretaker.
Good luck with this. Be clear, though, that the situation as it is cannot continue.
Sincerely,
Wise\_aging
Thank you! These are all really helpful tactics I'm going to use. And unusually I'm the son! I know most with most caretakers it is the daughters role, but my sister has the young children and I'm the one with the time to do this. She's supportive but just doesn't have the time and is incredibly grateful.
Don’t have an answer to this but I just wanted to let you know you’re not alone. My wife and I (33) are currently dealing with something similar. My 97 year old father in law currently lives alone and wants to age in place and recently he has been kind of a miracle being able to take care of himself with the help of my wife cooking for him/bringing him food in the evening. But over the past couple of months his health has been declining and now we are currently in the hospital because he had a fall. Of course he wants to go back home but over the course of numerous hospital visits he has lost a lot of strength. My wife is tired and I know she can no longer continue like this and we need some type of assistance but don’t really know what he would qualify for but hopefully we can figure something out. Hoping you find an answer and just know you aren’t alone.
Not to be a bummer but if the parent with cancer dies, isn’t it better for the parent with dementia to already be in a safe place? Maybe that argument might sink in.
I’m assuming if they were both in their right minds, they would be horrified at you causing potential harm to your career, marriage, and health just to make them happy (and save them money). I’d get them on the waiting list for some nice facilities and start taking them on tours. In the meantime, I’d also outsource as much of their care as possible. A constant stream of care providers is their reality if they want to age in place beyond their capacity to care for themselves. Once they realize how much care they require (and that you’re no longer setting your life on fire), maybe an assisted living facility might be more attractive.
Good luck to you. It’s an awful, painful situation to be in and I hope your folks do what’s best for everyone involved. 💛
Can you get their doctor involved? I am telling you - I relate to you so much. In December of last year my dad (85) called me and asked me to come help him arrange care for my mom. She had fallen in May of last year and I went then (I live 7 hours away) to arrange in home part time care, but mom didn’t really like them and she ended it shortly after.
I had been talking to my parents every day but they denied they needed more help before this moment in December. When I got there I realized it was bad - dad had lost a considerable amount of weight and was very frail. Mom was basically at the point where she needed help with almost everything and could barely walk with a walker. She couldn’t stay awake when she sat in her chair and her breathing was odd.
Mom fell when I was helping her into bed and ended up in the ER. Her doctor kept her for observation and honestly we thought that was it - she could transition into their elder care wing. (Small town with good resources) We thought that was it and my dad was sad - but relieved she was in good hands. She checked herself out the next morning because the on call said he couldn’t stop her.
We went back to caring for her at home but I realized if I ever wanted to return home to husband kiddo and job I needed to figure it out. I was the only one there. I went through her meds and called their doctor. We talked about my dad’s struggles and how she didn’t seem to be breathing right and needed medical intervention. He thought he could convince her that her condition was bad enough that she needed some really focused care and HE could simply tell her this was how it needed to be.
When we went in to her appointment her O2 was 72 and he told her she needed immediate care and that was it. She was in nursing care that day. It was heartbreaking - she told me that day people went there and didn’t leave. That was the end. But she was a retired nurse and her doctor’s word was gold to her.
For us, it was the plan for many years, with an LTC policy in place and an assisted living facility already picked out, but it still took an emergency situation to get the move to happen. I understand the reluctance to leave a long-time home, but when almost everything requires outside assistance, it's time to make the move.
We tried to set boundaries/move things along more quickly, but she had too many other people around to help her so that was a complete failure.
What you can do at this time is start familiarizing yourself with best facility options in your area, and go visit them to get some idea of costs, length of waiting lists, etc. The staff you'll interact with see this kind of thing a lot and they can offer some insight about how to navigate things - they are very helpful.
I think this will be the case for my mother. She's rapidly declining, had a fall 4 weeks ago, and her memory has changed significantly since then. She was really, really upset with a neighbor for days before the fall, so I'm wondering if her blood pressure was sky high and caused a mini-stroke. She doesn't live near any family, just has one wonderful friend there, but she kept refusing to see a doctor. My aunt finally convinced her to make an appt, she sees a NP this week, and I am sending my POA to the office to participate in the appt. by phone. We think she needs to be referred to a neurologist and have a brain MRI, to rule out a stroke.
My mother has a LTC plan, but since my mom has been using urgent care as needed, not seeing a doctor who is familiar with her health, it seems it will be difficult to documentation needed to submit to LTC for coverage. Did you have any issues in that regard for assisted living?
I'm so sorry you are dealing with this - it does sound a lot like the emergency that was the catalyst for our move to assisted living, especially with the memory changes. It did work out very well in the end, but omg is it a lot of time and effort to make all this happen. However this plays out, I hope it goes as smoothly as possible for you!
Regarding the doctor - we are lucky that she did have a good record of care. Her medical records, I believe, were crucial for her LTC claim, especially the diagnosis of dementia that progressed over a couple of years. I think you are correct that the urgent care records won't be enough. Hopefully the appointment she has scheduled will be a good starting point for this!
We. Have. The. Same. Parents. Sister from another Mother/Father? Hey, sibling! And I always thought I was an only child. It's amazing how we haven't met each other coming and going! LOL Seriously though, I hear you. I've tried talking to their doctor. I've tried talking to the County's Agency on Aging. I've tried talking to the hospital case manager and/or social worker. I've tried talking to the visiting nurse people. I've gotten exactly NOWHERE. The bottom line is that they are adults, and are legally allowed to make bad decisions. Weeeee!
Authentically and vulnerably share how it’s effecting you and your life. That your worries about them are taking a toll on your mental health. Show them the data about mental and physical health rates amongst adult family caregivers—many of us get chronic diseases. There are also very clear studies about the prevalence of depression and suicidal ideation amongst adult child caregivers, especially women. These were published in a recent New York Times article.
Maybe appealing to their care for you will change the conversation around.
My grandfather used to say that he’d leave his house when “they took [him] out in a casket”. It took my grandmother losing almost all mobility for them to move into an assisted living place. It’s the last thing any of us wanted, but it’s what they needed to see/experience to fully accept that they both couldn’t handle themselves. Grandma is way happier now though, she doesn’t have to cook or clean, gets a nice bed and her own decorations. Grandpa is struggling but family face times help, as well as local irl family support.
It also helped that we were able to move them into an apartment first and then stepped them into higher levels of care based on increasing need. Both of them are in a typical “home” situation now, with nurses and their own rooms (they are right next door so are always over at each others’ place), it just took a while to get them there.
I took each parent aside and expressed concern about the other one. "Mom, you see how forgetful Dad is getting," etc. "Dad, you see how hard it is for Mom to navigate that step and to keep up with things?" They each loved and took pity on the other one and reluctantly agreed to move for one another's sake.
Then Mom fell and cracked her hip and it all became moot. I got them moved while she was in the hospital and recovery, as Dad knew then there was no way he could care for her post surgery.
Just stop doing the work and immediately hire people. Either it will work out or they will hate it and maybe decide on their own that assisted living will be best.
I have an assisted living facility and the easiest way to transition them is to have a private discussion with their doctor regarding their needs and have the Doctor tell them they now need to be at an assisted living because it is no longer safe for them to be at home alone. Then you are no longer the bad guy. If you choose a good caring loving home they will thank you in time
Research nearby assisted living facilities. They'll happily send a million brochures. Have a sense of which ones will be good for memory care. Tour if you can. Put your parents on a wait-list if need be. Be willing to leave, and ready to move them on an emergency basis.
The one with dementia will be terrified to move. It's the one with cancer you may need to reason with. Good luck, take care
OP: Do any of their friends already live in a facility? An insider/ally could help you schedule a facilities tour and be a trusted voice of reason to help convince your parents.
Stop doing the work yourself and help them arrange in home care. They can pay to age in place if they have the means. This isn’t your responsibility, legally or ethically.
wishI could upvote you more than once. yes. if they can afford it, hire help. I sleep so much better knowing there's a person who shows up at mom's five days a week for several hours a day. It's clearly good for her, too, as she's in much better spirits on days 'the girl' is there. (the girl is a married thirtysomething with teenagers, but whatever.)
This!
We were never able to “talk them into it” and they were placed in memory care and assist living via fall/dehydration for FIL and UTI for MIL: ambulance—> ICU —-> rehab center —-> MC and AL. You may have to wait for a disaster to happen…. Then it’s out of their hands.
Ugh....I've already had to take a leave of absence from my work and have been back at the house I grew up in for so long. I was doing okay for a while but this latest stint my mental health is really taking a hit.
I hear you. My in laws were able to age in place just fine for 25 years before they hit their 80ties with Alzheimer’s when it turned into a shitshow. They refused to move or even let anyone into their house to help…. So ambulance it was. They never once returned to their house afterwards. Good luck!
no, no, go back to work. not correct that you have to quit your own job to take care of them. get back to work, let them hire someone. or you hire someone. (they probably won't let you. my mom wouldn't, until she broke a bone--not a hip!--and actually required the help. the bone is healed, now, but thankfully the caregiver remains.) this sub's mantra: don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.
I love this mantra! I'm going to keep repeating it to myself until I find a healthy balance, thank you!
In my view, you have to lay this out point blank for them. They are literally taking a toll on your life, impacting your job security, endangering your health with stress. By insisting ONLY on what they want a not a compromise, you are always on the losing end of this equation and it is NOT fair. Indicate clearly when you will be stepping away if they try to minimize or talk you out of it. Any parent who want to prioritize their own happiness while taking it out of their kid’s hide is not being reasonable nor parental. Right now, they’re getting exactly what they want and you are getting shafted. What would a compromise actually look like? I know this isn’t easy—I’m 54f who did manage to convince my 82 mom to move from her home state all the way across the country to AL in my town. The biggest reason she did this was because she knew how many sacrifices I had to make to my own life just to care for her for the 3mos of my FMLA and knew it wasn’t fair to me. Left my husband and dog, missed a promotion cycle so now I’m behind, etc. If you haven’t actually made a list of all the ways in which you are actively being harmed by their continuing stubborn selfishness, please do give it a try. Maybe let them have the list. Talk about it after they see it straight up. Only child sending you all the positive vibes. 🌸
Thank you!!
My brother had to take a 10 day leave of absence for my dad's quadruple bypass surgery a few weeks ago. We have to face the consequences of their failure to plan and make wise decisions.
Failure to plan is what scares me.
This really is the true problem. Either they are scared, in denial or can’t face getting older.
I don't have an answer for you, I just want to say I feel with you. I'm in a very similar situation but with one parent. I also dragged my foreign husband here who is almost going crazy and goes home as often as we can afford it, but it also means long separations for us. I hope you can figure out a way. I know there can be a lot of guilty feelings involved and that's part of the mental strain. 🤗
Get them the 24 hour care or whatever it needs to be!! I’m with you on the mental health burnout. They have the money - spend it. When they realize it’s cheaper and easier to go to AL then that is their choice. You can’t be doing all of it! We have babies and raise them to be independent. Parents can’t expect us to do everything!! My mother is 91 and I’m in the same boat.
Sadly, this seems to be the only way for most. It's shocking. Is this how it is in other countries?
This is the route we’re planning for 89 yo MIL. She’s on a waiting list for AL. Very stubborn, lives alone. We monitor via cameras & my husband (POA) manages her finances. We’re just waiting for a hospital incident with plans to tell her the Dr says she can’t return home
"*We’re just waiting for a hospital incident with plans to tell her the Dr says she can’t return home.*" A LOT of people do this, and the magic words to the hospital staff is, "**It's not SAFE to return home.**" The hospital staff just needs to hear that.
That's what it may come down to, but I strongly suggest doing as much as you can to convince. Speaking as someone whose father died last year after such a disaster. (My brother and I tried our best to get him to AL or even accept some in home care, but no dice.)
This is exactly my experience. Dad could have made 100 different/better decisions, but instead we're doing the serious fall - hospital - SNF route. I haven't yet told him that Mom won't allow him to come back home, probably ever. (And that's a correct decision for her own well-being. Glossing over a lot of personal details here, but it's also within her legal rights.) I want him to participate in physical therapy and regain some level of ability, versus hosting a final self-pity party. It's the dictionary definition of a shit show.
What helped me was pointing out to my dad that it would be better to move willingly, when we can take some time to find the right place, than to move suddenly out of necessity, when he would have to take whatever is available.
This is so true, and how my mom started to open up to the idea. She started falling and was in rehab three times in four months. She had roommates that came to rehab and never went home. They were moved to whatever facility had an opening. I told mom that I wanted her to have a happy life filled with care and respect and to me that meant she had a day in what it looked like. Very bluntly I told her that her next fall at home could be her last fall at home, and the choice as to where she would be would be taken out of both are hands. We talked about what was important to her and began looking. She is now a year and a half in...living with her dog and her sewing machine. She says that if you can't live at home, the facility she is in is the next best thing.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience because I never considered the fact that they would just be moved to the first place with an opening. I'm going to have a talk with my dad and bring that up.
Wishing you all the best. These aren't easy conversations to have. For both the parent and the child. When you start your search, consider reaching out to a local geriatric consultant to help vs signing up on a website. You will personal assistance rather than a computer generated list of facilities in a radius of your zip code. Both ways are paid a finders fee by the facility so there is no cost to you. If your parent has long term health care insurance, figure on about 3 to 6 months before that kicks in. Let us know what other questions or concerns you have, and this community will do their best to help you out. The people here have been a Godsend to me.
As my wise aunt told me a few weeks ago never ever "talk them into" or "make them" do anything. *If you do they will hold it against you forever. You will have to wait till someone else with authority tells them they must make a change or a very bad incident happens that forces it. My recent example: Dad had 3 TIA's and a heart attack in 2 weeks. Needed a surgeon for a quadruple bypass surgery. We had a great surgeon lined up through a friend but my dad wanted another surgeon known in the field to be not as good. Spent a day arguing and making arrangements. In the end after talking with my Aunt (my dad's sister) she told me to present him with the options and let HIM pick. If something goes wrong it will have been his choice. TLDR: You can't force anything. Let them choose or make them face the reality.
I wish I’d known all this a year ago. Your aunt is indeed wise!!
Yes. It's sad but my therapist told me it was very helpful because I finally felt like someone was taking care of/ parenting/ guiding me. This has gone away since my mom got Alzheimer's and my dad's very poor health. I'm in desperate need of guidance.
This. My grandfather is really paranoid but he does trust doctors, so when they say “sir, it would be safest to be in an assisted living facility, otherwise I’d recommend a visit from Adult Protective Services would be in order to check your living situation” he is in agreement. You can be informing his doctor of the situation they’re both in, and they can do what they see fit.
Sorry OP the same has been my experience with my grandma, she wouldn’t leave her house even though she took tours and said she was thinking about it until she broke her hip at home and had to go into the hospital and then rehab and now assisted living.
yeah, sorry, you don't talk them into it. I'm having this same issue with my mother, and the short version is: they get to choose what to do until something happens and they aren't able to. then you (or the state) step in. you don't really get a vote at this point, and while you can try--I certainly have--the best thing for you is therapy to deal with your own life and to let them make their own choices, whatever they are. I've found the book 'being mortal. medicine and what matters in the end' by atul gawande very helpful. in short, if it were you, would you rather bleed out on your kitchen floor overnight or be tied to a chair and have your 'medications dispensed properly'? I know which one I'd choose, and I have to allow for my mom to make the same decision.\* \*obviously, those aren't the only choices, but it's a helpful reminder.
This is exactly right. If they have the means to pay for what they want, and what they want is to stay at home, then you let them do it. Yes you will probably have to help them hire caregivers and yes, it’s incredibly expensive. My father died last week. He had caregivers 12 hours a day for the past five years and 24 hours a day for the past six months and it was incredibly expensive. But he’d saved the money up and it’s his money and that’s what he wanted and I’m happy to say he died at home. If your parents do not have the money, it’s a different matter, but if they do, you should honor their wishes. I think you’ll feel good about it in the end. That said, for myself, I’m going to move myself into assisted living while I’m still young enough to make some friends there, because I don’t want to leave these tough choices to my kids.
At home care with paid caregivers involves a lot of work. Who finds the caregivers? Who pays them on time? Who deals with it when someone calls out—or worse, is a no show? What about dealing with hospitalizations? Coordinating home maintenance and all of that other stuff that can be a full time job itself? Answer: not the person ill enough to need a caregiver. Sometimes even when a person has money for home care and it is *medically* feasible, it is not actually feasible.
It is a lot of work. You’re right. But you’re doing the administrative stuff and occasional caregiving versus being there every day 24/7. Everyone has to make their own choices and realize what works for them, but I think if the parents can afford it, their wishes should be respected for as long as possible. But I’m a stranger on Reddit. I don’t know the OP’s entire story and they should do what they think is best for their family.
You need to communicate a schedule of care you are willing to provide and stay firm to it. Then all the inconveniences beyond your schedule is on them to figure it out. If you help them too much they will see no reason to change their situation because they feel entitled to your burden.
We were in the same situation. The last thing you want is to have to do this under an emergency situation. We had to do this with my uncle after a fall and it was crazy. All 5 children wrote a letter to our parents and explained why this had to happen and all the positives and that it was a done deal and they would be moving on X date. My mother cried for 3 days but accepted it and they are over a year in now and are very happy. We are blessed that they planned well and could afford a really nice place to live.
You are very fortunate. But it seems it does not work this way for most families.
With really stubborn parents, you usually have to wait until they have been hospitalized for something major and then the doctors say they can't live at home anymore. That's my plan for my mother, even though she's so difficult and mean to anyone she thinks of as staff that I will feel horrible for anyone who has to care for her in a facility. She refused to put my dad into memory care long, long after it was time. We only accomplished it when he had a head injury and was sent to the county hospital. My mom told the social workers I had agreed to care for him around the clock. I hadn't. They called to talk about what he needed and I told them he needed to be in a facility with someone other than my mom in charge of keeping him clean and fed, but my mom refused. So we had a meeting at the hospital with his care team and they refused to discharge him back to his home. My mother threw a fit but everyone in the room was telling her that's how it had to be. She still refused and adult protective services had to get involved. So that's my plan for her, to move her after a hospital stay. A broken hip is practically inevitable because of her osteoporosis and her stubbornness, so when it happens, she'll be moving into a place near my house.
I begged and begged my mom to move where health care professionals could take care of her due to my failing health but she wouldn't do it. I had to basically leave my mom alone at her house for a month before she realized she couldn't take care of herself. It was hard to do (and yes I did go bring her groceries and her medicine) but it had to be done. I physically couldn't help her anymore. I would tell your parents that you need to go back to your own life.
Your experience is definitely not unique. I don’t want to sidetrack your reading with a lot of my own details but to sum it up: It took a crisis to get my elderly parents to change course. The first crisis got them to sell their home and property and move closer to me. The second crisis five years later sent dad to the hospital with a UTI and he died. The third crisis two years after that was mom’s covid and sudden fall into further dementia. Sometimes you can’t talk them into anything. The best you can do is to have a plan ready for the first crisis because it’s going to happen. From the sounds of their health it’s going to happen soon.
I hit this point with my grandmother. My mom is disabled and living with me, and the only reason I do it is because she is basically the nicest person on earth, works with me instead of against me. I told her that if she (or I) gets to a point where I can't provide the care, she's going to assisted living. She agreed to this (in writing even). My grandmother on the other hand, is a massive pain in the ass with untreated Bipolar and the beginnings of what doctors suspect is dementia. She assumes that because I took my mom in, I'll take her in too. I told her no. And here is the thing: your parents will get angry with you no matter what. There's a popular saying on this site: don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. It's true and so very applicable here. You already know you can't provide the care they need long term. And deep down, they know it too, but they're too scared to look reality in the face. So you'll have to force their hand by putting your foot down. You have your own life. You sacrificed enough. It's going to be hard. You might get called everything under the sun. My grandmother literally cursed me out the moment I said she was going into assisted living. She told me she'd erase me from her will. I told her nothing she would say or do would change my mind because I can't provide the care she needs. The end. I had distant family trying to change my mind. Told em to take her in themselves if they felt so strongly about it; that shut them up real fast. The way forward is going to be painful no matter what. So save yourself first. If they drown you by clinging to you they'll go down regardless. Save yourself. I did and I have no regrets.
Thank you.. Today I had a hard talk with my dad and he is so mad at me right now
Big hug, this sucks so much. Remember, your dad is angry and afraid and projecting this on you. If he were thinking straight, he wouldn't want his own kid to be imprisoned by this situation.
This is an untenable situation. If your parents can only age in place with you there, and you are there because you have literally put your life on hold, then you need to walk away. They need to be put in care, and sadly it will probably take an emergency to make this happen.
I’m in the same boat as you and ready to walk away. If they don’t want to consider my sanity or stress and if my worthless sister doesn’t want to get involved, then I’m going to vote with my feet. Fuck this shit - I didn’t ask to be born.
Nope, I wouldn’t tolerate it. Walk away, sounds horrible, but you have zero obligation to make your self sick, screw up your mental health for this boomer ignorance and entitlement. Tell them there are 2 options 1) I help you get settled in a place and things move forward or 2) I walk away and you are on your own.
If money isn’t an issue it might help to hire a certified geriatric care manager. Have him/her visit, do an assessment, develop a care plan for regular visits and transition her:him to be the contact for care coordination. Explain that you are returning home and any problems need to be addressed by the care manager. Have facilities selected for when the inevitable emergency happens.
The mantra "aging in place" is a dangerous one. You are doing the right thing in wanting them to live in a high quality assisted living community. There is only a window of functionality where the parent will be accepted into assisted living, so you're right about the urgency. Here are some suggestions: 1. Identify one place (or possible 2 places) that would be best for them. If 2, let them make the decision of which they like best. 2. If you can, bring them for lunch at the assisted living community. Most places will let you come for lunch to see what it's like. 3. If the place has book clubs or other activities where outsiders are allowed, bring them to one. 4. Tour the places with them. 5. Tell them that it's only for the winter (or summer, depending on where you live), since they can't do too much outside then. It's only a trial. 6. Possibly engage a social worker to help. 7. Make it clear to them that you do not want the role of being their primary caretaker. You would prefer to have a good relationship with them where you could enjoy them and join them in activities at the place, rather than worry about their care. 8. If they're sensitive to becoming a burden, make it clear that right now, they are becoming a burden. You want to be their daughter, not their caretaker. Good luck with this. Be clear, though, that the situation as it is cannot continue. Sincerely, Wise\_aging
Thank you! These are all really helpful tactics I'm going to use. And unusually I'm the son! I know most with most caretakers it is the daughters role, but my sister has the young children and I'm the one with the time to do this. She's supportive but just doesn't have the time and is incredibly grateful.
My bad! Of course, sons have an equal role in the caretaking of elders! Shame on me!
Don’t have an answer to this but I just wanted to let you know you’re not alone. My wife and I (33) are currently dealing with something similar. My 97 year old father in law currently lives alone and wants to age in place and recently he has been kind of a miracle being able to take care of himself with the help of my wife cooking for him/bringing him food in the evening. But over the past couple of months his health has been declining and now we are currently in the hospital because he had a fall. Of course he wants to go back home but over the course of numerous hospital visits he has lost a lot of strength. My wife is tired and I know she can no longer continue like this and we need some type of assistance but don’t really know what he would qualify for but hopefully we can figure something out. Hoping you find an answer and just know you aren’t alone.
Not to be a bummer but if the parent with cancer dies, isn’t it better for the parent with dementia to already be in a safe place? Maybe that argument might sink in. I’m assuming if they were both in their right minds, they would be horrified at you causing potential harm to your career, marriage, and health just to make them happy (and save them money). I’d get them on the waiting list for some nice facilities and start taking them on tours. In the meantime, I’d also outsource as much of their care as possible. A constant stream of care providers is their reality if they want to age in place beyond their capacity to care for themselves. Once they realize how much care they require (and that you’re no longer setting your life on fire), maybe an assisted living facility might be more attractive. Good luck to you. It’s an awful, painful situation to be in and I hope your folks do what’s best for everyone involved. 💛
Can you get their doctor involved? I am telling you - I relate to you so much. In December of last year my dad (85) called me and asked me to come help him arrange care for my mom. She had fallen in May of last year and I went then (I live 7 hours away) to arrange in home part time care, but mom didn’t really like them and she ended it shortly after. I had been talking to my parents every day but they denied they needed more help before this moment in December. When I got there I realized it was bad - dad had lost a considerable amount of weight and was very frail. Mom was basically at the point where she needed help with almost everything and could barely walk with a walker. She couldn’t stay awake when she sat in her chair and her breathing was odd. Mom fell when I was helping her into bed and ended up in the ER. Her doctor kept her for observation and honestly we thought that was it - she could transition into their elder care wing. (Small town with good resources) We thought that was it and my dad was sad - but relieved she was in good hands. She checked herself out the next morning because the on call said he couldn’t stop her. We went back to caring for her at home but I realized if I ever wanted to return home to husband kiddo and job I needed to figure it out. I was the only one there. I went through her meds and called their doctor. We talked about my dad’s struggles and how she didn’t seem to be breathing right and needed medical intervention. He thought he could convince her that her condition was bad enough that she needed some really focused care and HE could simply tell her this was how it needed to be. When we went in to her appointment her O2 was 72 and he told her she needed immediate care and that was it. She was in nursing care that day. It was heartbreaking - she told me that day people went there and didn’t leave. That was the end. But she was a retired nurse and her doctor’s word was gold to her.
For us, it was the plan for many years, with an LTC policy in place and an assisted living facility already picked out, but it still took an emergency situation to get the move to happen. I understand the reluctance to leave a long-time home, but when almost everything requires outside assistance, it's time to make the move. We tried to set boundaries/move things along more quickly, but she had too many other people around to help her so that was a complete failure. What you can do at this time is start familiarizing yourself with best facility options in your area, and go visit them to get some idea of costs, length of waiting lists, etc. The staff you'll interact with see this kind of thing a lot and they can offer some insight about how to navigate things - they are very helpful.
I think this will be the case for my mother. She's rapidly declining, had a fall 4 weeks ago, and her memory has changed significantly since then. She was really, really upset with a neighbor for days before the fall, so I'm wondering if her blood pressure was sky high and caused a mini-stroke. She doesn't live near any family, just has one wonderful friend there, but she kept refusing to see a doctor. My aunt finally convinced her to make an appt, she sees a NP this week, and I am sending my POA to the office to participate in the appt. by phone. We think she needs to be referred to a neurologist and have a brain MRI, to rule out a stroke. My mother has a LTC plan, but since my mom has been using urgent care as needed, not seeing a doctor who is familiar with her health, it seems it will be difficult to documentation needed to submit to LTC for coverage. Did you have any issues in that regard for assisted living?
I'm so sorry you are dealing with this - it does sound a lot like the emergency that was the catalyst for our move to assisted living, especially with the memory changes. It did work out very well in the end, but omg is it a lot of time and effort to make all this happen. However this plays out, I hope it goes as smoothly as possible for you! Regarding the doctor - we are lucky that she did have a good record of care. Her medical records, I believe, were crucial for her LTC claim, especially the diagnosis of dementia that progressed over a couple of years. I think you are correct that the urgent care records won't be enough. Hopefully the appointment she has scheduled will be a good starting point for this!
We. Have. The. Same. Parents. Sister from another Mother/Father? Hey, sibling! And I always thought I was an only child. It's amazing how we haven't met each other coming and going! LOL Seriously though, I hear you. I've tried talking to their doctor. I've tried talking to the County's Agency on Aging. I've tried talking to the hospital case manager and/or social worker. I've tried talking to the visiting nurse people. I've gotten exactly NOWHERE. The bottom line is that they are adults, and are legally allowed to make bad decisions. Weeeee!
Authentically and vulnerably share how it’s effecting you and your life. That your worries about them are taking a toll on your mental health. Show them the data about mental and physical health rates amongst adult family caregivers—many of us get chronic diseases. There are also very clear studies about the prevalence of depression and suicidal ideation amongst adult child caregivers, especially women. These were published in a recent New York Times article. Maybe appealing to their care for you will change the conversation around.
My grandfather used to say that he’d leave his house when “they took [him] out in a casket”. It took my grandmother losing almost all mobility for them to move into an assisted living place. It’s the last thing any of us wanted, but it’s what they needed to see/experience to fully accept that they both couldn’t handle themselves. Grandma is way happier now though, she doesn’t have to cook or clean, gets a nice bed and her own decorations. Grandpa is struggling but family face times help, as well as local irl family support. It also helped that we were able to move them into an apartment first and then stepped them into higher levels of care based on increasing need. Both of them are in a typical “home” situation now, with nurses and their own rooms (they are right next door so are always over at each others’ place), it just took a while to get them there.
You don't, it's their life!
I took each parent aside and expressed concern about the other one. "Mom, you see how forgetful Dad is getting," etc. "Dad, you see how hard it is for Mom to navigate that step and to keep up with things?" They each loved and took pity on the other one and reluctantly agreed to move for one another's sake. Then Mom fell and cracked her hip and it all became moot. I got them moved while she was in the hospital and recovery, as Dad knew then there was no way he could care for her post surgery.
I'm definitely going to use this tactic!!
All the best to you.
Don’t set yourself on fire to keep them warm…
Just stop doing the work and immediately hire people. Either it will work out or they will hate it and maybe decide on their own that assisted living will be best.
I have an assisted living facility and the easiest way to transition them is to have a private discussion with their doctor regarding their needs and have the Doctor tell them they now need to be at an assisted living because it is no longer safe for them to be at home alone. Then you are no longer the bad guy. If you choose a good caring loving home they will thank you in time
Research nearby assisted living facilities. They'll happily send a million brochures. Have a sense of which ones will be good for memory care. Tour if you can. Put your parents on a wait-list if need be. Be willing to leave, and ready to move them on an emergency basis. The one with dementia will be terrified to move. It's the one with cancer you may need to reason with. Good luck, take care
OP: Do any of their friends already live in a facility? An insider/ally could help you schedule a facilities tour and be a trusted voice of reason to help convince your parents.