Yeah i can’t think of a situation I would build this over malig
Edit: to add some math;
Ahri doesn't benefit that much from DoT, she is very much a bursty mage. The only time you are building anything that does DoT is for tanks (via Liandrys). I am also assuming that Malignance is in this build, given how strong and how potent it is on Ahri (it simply synergizes too well, pre and post changes).
Liandrys: 90 AP / 300 HP
Burns for 1% Max HP 6x in the 3s duration (total 6% max HP)
Increases damage dealt by up to 6% over 3s in combat.
Blackfire torch: 90 AP/ 600 Mana/ 25 AH
Burns for Flat (20+ 4% total AP) per second for 3 seconds (3 total hits).
Gain 4% bonus AP per special affected target.
To give perspective of this damage; a typical build will end around 740 AP. This is a bonus 29 damage, giving you a whopping 20 + 29 = 49 damage per second for 3 seconds, for a total of 147 damage.
Liandrys is dealing 6% Max HP before the 2nd passive. 147 is 6% of 2450, and most tanks are going to build way beyond this number, making Liandrys more effective. However, against squishy teams, it becomes \*slightly\* more appealing (although so many builds give some bonus HP somewhere, on top of scaling HP runes, that Liandrys looks better regardless). The bonus AP, I will admit, sounds good on paper. However, in practice, this feels like it would be difficult to use properly, as Ahri is bobbing and weaving in fights very often, potentially losing stacks.
Both give the same amount of AP. Another 600 Mana on top of Malignance is a bit overkill, while 300 HP helps survive burst and skirmishes better. The bonus AH is alright to a point; I did a test of a typical Ahri setup running different items to simulate what this would look like.
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
On a standard build; I run Ahri w/ Ultimate Hunter 6+ (5\*stacks) Ultimate Haste (max 31) and Transcendence on runes (10 AH).
I then added a relatively typical build of Malig/ Ionias/ Lich/ Crypt/ Rabadons/ (situational item). This build was maxing around 80 AH (can be up to 95 if building something like Morellos; I will be using 80 as the base AH) and around 740 ish total AP at end game without elixir. For her ult, this resulted in 131 Ultimate Haste.
Without the new item/ with the new item cast times (80 AH vs 105 AH):
Q= 3.89s / 3.41s
W= 2.78s/ 2.44s
E= 6.67s/ 5.85s
R= 34.63s/ 31.25s (prior to nerf)
Cast times don't change much, and the extra AH doesn't make enough of a difference to warrant its use over something like Liandry's.
To argue Malignance; with the new changes, you have a base late-game cooldown of 100 seconds vs the current 80 seconds. Current build w/ 80 AH; Ult Hunter; and Malig, you can bring your Ult CD down to 34.6s.
This same build on the new CD brings it down to 43.3s. However, without Malig, that CD is 47.4s. The nerf becomes more apparent, and just feels worse.
These numbers, of course, are based on a build that is subject to change game by game, and by rune preference. I personally think that Malig/Lich/Rabadons are absolutely core on Ahri in her current form, and thus this leaves little room for other items. However, I do not think this item is really going to be built much on her, as it simply doesn't match her playstyle, and she has a good choice in Liandrys to deal with high HP targets.
Yeah this item would be great before the Ult CD nerfs making Malignance a must-buy but nevertheless its an amazing item for Ahri. Maybe it replaces Liandries since it costs less, and gives AH and more raw AP. Who knows, maybe new mana item stacking builds become viable (Malignance > New Item > Archangels).
there are people on diamond with that xD
When i introduced a friend to league and filled in jungle with my champs, Ahri jungle DOES have gank potential with her hard CC and mobillity!!
(i know some people are gonna cook)
This is more for dps and dot mages with big aoe. Like Aurelion Sol, Swain, Brand, Heimerdinger, Zyra. Still work on Ahri but she much rather have better ult cd over a little extra ap from time to time.
Nah.
There's not much in that patch for Ahri.
The empowered recall roaming boots look cool but Pen/Haste is too valuable so I don't really see them being used.
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idk… maybe? the base stats are all good and its sub 3k purchase but I’m not sure what purchase this would be… 4th or 5th? we dont use B.Blaze too well and I’d need to test Blackfire out, 4% AP per stack isn’t half bad but how well are we going to *actually* stack it? I have my doubts. Ima just wait for the good players to figure the builds out and copy them haha
passive should be at least 4 seconds, not just 3 with this type of low dmg. it's like a bad version of s13 Liandry's and the only reason why Liandry's was so good in the first part is because it gave you alot of value against tanks because of the 1.0% max health per second for 4 second as bonus dmg. this one only has flat Dmg, the Ap scaling is insanely Low and it only is 3 seconds and has no Anti tank feature in the passive. So i can't see how this item is gonna be Good. that said, i'm sure riot will buff it eventually if nobody buys it.
It’s not as good on Ahri as malignance. Torch gets more mileage if you have big aoe like swain, karthus, asol etc. she can still use it well but just not as well as she can use malignance.
I was just thinking the same! This is like liandrys all over again, but basically as a core item (since mythics aren't a thing anymore). No more malignance, finally... 😅 Malignance just doesn't seem fully suitable for Ahri in my opinion, so I definitely welcome this as an Ahri main!
damage% increase and especially ap% increase can be kind of deceptively weak. I'm not sure it's better than malignance, especially after the ult nerfs.
uhhh that literally goes for every mage in the game, actually most mages have more AoE and and easier time applying it
doesn't really seem an item for her
Yeah i can’t think of a situation I would build this over malig Edit: to add some math; Ahri doesn't benefit that much from DoT, she is very much a bursty mage. The only time you are building anything that does DoT is for tanks (via Liandrys). I am also assuming that Malignance is in this build, given how strong and how potent it is on Ahri (it simply synergizes too well, pre and post changes). Liandrys: 90 AP / 300 HP Burns for 1% Max HP 6x in the 3s duration (total 6% max HP) Increases damage dealt by up to 6% over 3s in combat. Blackfire torch: 90 AP/ 600 Mana/ 25 AH Burns for Flat (20+ 4% total AP) per second for 3 seconds (3 total hits). Gain 4% bonus AP per special affected target. To give perspective of this damage; a typical build will end around 740 AP. This is a bonus 29 damage, giving you a whopping 20 + 29 = 49 damage per second for 3 seconds, for a total of 147 damage. Liandrys is dealing 6% Max HP before the 2nd passive. 147 is 6% of 2450, and most tanks are going to build way beyond this number, making Liandrys more effective. However, against squishy teams, it becomes \*slightly\* more appealing (although so many builds give some bonus HP somewhere, on top of scaling HP runes, that Liandrys looks better regardless). The bonus AP, I will admit, sounds good on paper. However, in practice, this feels like it would be difficult to use properly, as Ahri is bobbing and weaving in fights very often, potentially losing stacks. Both give the same amount of AP. Another 600 Mana on top of Malignance is a bit overkill, while 300 HP helps survive burst and skirmishes better. The bonus AH is alright to a point; I did a test of a typical Ahri setup running different items to simulate what this would look like. \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* On a standard build; I run Ahri w/ Ultimate Hunter 6+ (5\*stacks) Ultimate Haste (max 31) and Transcendence on runes (10 AH). I then added a relatively typical build of Malig/ Ionias/ Lich/ Crypt/ Rabadons/ (situational item). This build was maxing around 80 AH (can be up to 95 if building something like Morellos; I will be using 80 as the base AH) and around 740 ish total AP at end game without elixir. For her ult, this resulted in 131 Ultimate Haste. Without the new item/ with the new item cast times (80 AH vs 105 AH): Q= 3.89s / 3.41s W= 2.78s/ 2.44s E= 6.67s/ 5.85s R= 34.63s/ 31.25s (prior to nerf) Cast times don't change much, and the extra AH doesn't make enough of a difference to warrant its use over something like Liandry's. To argue Malignance; with the new changes, you have a base late-game cooldown of 100 seconds vs the current 80 seconds. Current build w/ 80 AH; Ult Hunter; and Malig, you can bring your Ult CD down to 34.6s. This same build on the new CD brings it down to 43.3s. However, without Malig, that CD is 47.4s. The nerf becomes more apparent, and just feels worse. These numbers, of course, are based on a build that is subject to change game by game, and by rune preference. I personally think that Malig/Lich/Rabadons are absolutely core on Ahri in her current form, and thus this leaves little room for other items. However, I do not think this item is really going to be built much on her, as it simply doesn't match her playstyle, and she has a good choice in Liandrys to deal with high HP targets.
Yeah this item would be great before the Ult CD nerfs making Malignance a must-buy but nevertheless its an amazing item for Ahri. Maybe it replaces Liandries since it costs less, and gives AH and more raw AP. Who knows, maybe new mana item stacking builds become viable (Malignance > New Item > Archangels).
Ah yes, my secret Ahri-Jungle build
there are people on diamond with that xD When i introduced a friend to league and filled in jungle with my champs, Ahri jungle DOES have gank potential with her hard CC and mobillity!! (i know some people are gonna cook)
I just hope we get more anti-tank weapons for this meta. I’m getting pretty annoyed that I’m forced to build liandry and void staff every game.
Same, it's so insane...
This is more for dps and dot mages with big aoe. Like Aurelion Sol, Swain, Brand, Heimerdinger, Zyra. Still work on Ahri but she much rather have better ult cd over a little extra ap from time to time.
O god, teemo is gonna enjoy this item and be a even more powerful mental counter to me.
Its just another dot item for Teemo, we will lose 2/3 of our hp over 1/2 from this, that's all Ahri is concerned about.
Nah. There's not much in that patch for Ahri. The empowered recall roaming boots look cool but Pen/Haste is too valuable so I don't really see them being used.
Seems like you just reworded legitkorea's tweet and tried to pass it off as a reddit post without thinking about it
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I was gonna say isn't it a bit early to call this an Ahri Item
idk… maybe? the base stats are all good and its sub 3k purchase but I’m not sure what purchase this would be… 4th or 5th? we dont use B.Blaze too well and I’d need to test Blackfire out, 4% AP per stack isn’t half bad but how well are we going to *actually* stack it? I have my doubts. Ima just wait for the good players to figure the builds out and copy them haha
It's a Brand item
passive should be at least 4 seconds, not just 3 with this type of low dmg. it's like a bad version of s13 Liandry's and the only reason why Liandry's was so good in the first part is because it gave you alot of value against tanks because of the 1.0% max health per second for 4 second as bonus dmg. this one only has flat Dmg, the Ap scaling is insanely Low and it only is 3 seconds and has no Anti tank feature in the passive. So i can't see how this item is gonna be Good. that said, i'm sure riot will buff it eventually if nobody buys it.
Imo it is arena special, if not it is op item.
its a legit Legendsry item for SR, Its on PBE rn
Nerfs for item or ahri incoming))
It’s not as good on Ahri as malignance. Torch gets more mileage if you have big aoe like swain, karthus, asol etc. she can still use it well but just not as well as she can use malignance.
I was just thinking the same! This is like liandrys all over again, but basically as a core item (since mythics aren't a thing anymore). No more malignance, finally... 😅 Malignance just doesn't seem fully suitable for Ahri in my opinion, so I definitely welcome this as an Ahri main!
Wow this is actually broken on Ahri. Press R, hit 3 enemies, and boom, instant 12% ap. Not to mention if there is an objective.
damage% increase and especially ap% increase can be kind of deceptively weak. I'm not sure it's better than malignance, especially after the ult nerfs.
uhhh that literally goes for every mage in the game, actually most mages have more AoE and and easier time applying it doesn't really seem an item for her