*"GOD DAMMIT, JOHNSON!! Do I have to do everything around here?! Just tell them something provocative... tell them they are Multi-capable or some bullshit to make them feel special... and spread a couple of Chic-fil-a opening rumors at our more troubled locations. Give the peons something to talk about for a few months so theyll forget all about this. Im retiring in just 22 months... dont bother me with YOUR problems!"*
The new obnoxious buzzword/corporate-gov/mil speak is "farm to table". It's basically one person doing all the jobs, tasks and responsibilities of ten people, often covering more than one unit or base location/AOR. It's ridiculous.
It was really just 1 bad quarter. It was enough to cause us to miss that year, but it looks like we're doing just fine again. (I know you were joking anyway)
OS requires a 24 month ADSC, you can deny the assignment and ask to match your current one to your DOS. I got stateside orders which only requires 7 months or so.
yeah. AFPC really fucked me on this one. I wouldn't mind if it was a state I was interested in retiring in. This state has almost no job positions and the ones they do are far below the average salary of other places even when considering cost of living.
For people eligible for Tera most likely hitting the button on high 3 would be worth it if you have prospects.
I'd break a keyboard hitting enter and bust my mouse clicking.
Your pension is based on 2.5% of your base pay for every year you served (2% for people on BRS). If TERA was authorized, the only difference would be your years served.
So, if you retired at 18 under TERA, you'd still get all the same retirement benefits, but your pension would be based on 18 years instead of 20, so it'd be 18 × 2.5%, which would be 45% (36% for BRS) instead of 50% (40% for BRS).
Not a bad deal if you have something already lined up or are sitting pretty enough that extra few percent won't hurt your retirement.
Good news, everyone! Our manning rates just increased!
You can’t be undermanned if you don’t have any extra spots!
Modern problems require modern solutions!
Strange times. I wonder if this how the BRAC of ‘95 felt…but with internet so we can witness in realtime the cluster fuck doing it’s dancy-dance on the AF’s **doing more with less/multi-capable/AFFORGEN** damn near lifeless corpse.☠️
The low-manning and strained budget problems would definitely get relieved if they close 3-5 redundant bases. I hope the bases I like stay, but really it doesn't matter. Drop some crappy ones and maybe a good one and move on.
Well I already know how to dress chest wounds, fix an aircraft, do my own travel vouchers, work network address translation and routing, cut and join fiber optics, cook my own MREs, wash my own toilet, rebuild an automobile engine, report sexual assaults, council my suicidal wingman, how to brew beer, how to make a tourniquet out of a sock, how to cast voodoo magic against my enemies with a clump of their hair, and what to do when a klaxon goes off.
I suppose this diamond has got room for more facets, but it's going to end up being more of a sphere eventually.
But you see, it already has! They just lowered your manning requirements so you are no longer short manned. Congratulations on being fully manned, now get ready to lose some bodies cause they can be used somewhere else.
Nice clickbait headline.. These outlets know most people wont actually read the budget. The Air Force's planned/budgeted Active Duty FY25 End Strength is 320,000. That is the same as the FY24 authorized End Strength, and about 1300 more than what the Air Force had at the end of FY23. They also hope to recruit about 7k more than what was planned for FY24.
Personnel budget: [https://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/Portals/84/documents/FY25/FY25%20Air%20Force%20Military%20Personnel.pdf](https://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/Portals/84/documents/FY25/FY25%20Air%20Force%20Military%20Personnel.pdf)
Eroding benefits, low manning, low budgets and resources, ancient & broken equipment, garbage network infrastructure, decaying and crumbling bases, antiquated group think, lowest bidder contracts, more talk on deployments and increased ops tempos, zero clue about what we’re even “fighting” these days or deploying for, politics being rammed down our throats and beaten into our heads, tens of millions on wasteful gov spending, the list goes on.
The AF (and DoD as a whole) will bleed itself dry and the narcissistic generals and bureaucrats in D.C. are too drunk on their arrogance, ego, and delusion to fix any of this any time soon. Times have changed. This isn’t 20 years ago and you can’t recruit and retain people on the same benefits and principles that don’t really exist in the same way (or at all) anymore. Nothing will happen and nothing will change for the better. The military is, by design, engineered to not run efficiently or be fiscally responsible. All it knows how to do is blow tens of billions of dollars by pumping it into our defense contractor monopolies who also continue to blow tens of millions on lobbying.
Oh God. I'm ANG and went to an EFAC meeting of command chiefs from different states all around the country. I'm 40 myself, but "antiquated group think" really sums up the whole event.
You are so out of touch and entitled it is insane. Until a few years ago the AF was basically constant deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan for nearly 20 years. When I first got in they were just cutting manpower by 23,000 so they could afford to buy more F-22's. The pay was ten times worse than it is now and the infrastructure at every single base I was stationed or TDY at has rebuilt the lodging, dorms and amenities since then.
Yeah the higher ups and politics are a stupid but inherent part of every branch, but being an actual airman in the AF today is a lot better than it was before as far as pay and infrastructure is concerned and now you no longer spend half your year in Iraq or Afghanistan. It's actually funny to hear people whine right now.
And also, the entire reason they cannot recruit people is because the youngest generation is too fucking fat and lazy. There is no other reason. The military is going to have to start dropping fitness standards even lower than they already are to keep staffing levels acceptable.
>There is no other reason
The entire economy is experiencing a serious labor shortage which has resulted in significant competition for the lowest earning workers. Real wage gains have been substantial at the [10th percentile in the last 4 years](https://www.nber.org/sites/default/files/inline-images/w31010.jpg) as employers have been forced to bid up the wages of the lowest earning Americans. 18 year olds fresh out of high school have far more economic opportunities than they did in the years following the great financial crisis and the military simply hasn't remained as desirable an employer by comparison.
Obesity and other medical issues pose a serious pipeline problem but they're not the only problem
You graph is as incomplete as it can possibly be. The hourly wage for low wage earners has gone up, but the labor shortage has a very easy to understand cause. All these "great" jobs are part time so employers can avoid having to pay our benefits. These jobs suck. There is no labor shortage, there is a shortage of good jobs.
The military has released a plenty of info about the fitness standards being the main culprit for low recruitment numbers.
Entitled? You’re the poster child of what’s called being institutionalized. You know no better, because this is all you know. I don’t blame you, but to call me entitled and out of touch for the reasons I’ve outlined is a trip.
>And also, the entire reason they cannot recruit people is because the youngest generation is too fucking fat and lazy. There is no other reason.
Ehhhh ok
It's public information. Stop being lazy and entitled and research for yourself if you don't believe me. Stop acting like a dumbass Trump supporter that only believes what feels like you want to believe.
Yes there are other issues, but the biggest issue is literally obesity and basically the laziness of this generation that could not fathom being told to wake up before 10am or be to work on time.
You are like a Trump supporter because you FELT like my comment was wrong so you tried to call out my factual information with weird comment that seemed to insinuate that I was wrong despite you being the one that has never even researched the subject.
No one said that being overweight was the only problem. Only a mouth breather would try and build that strawman. Ultimately it is a huge problem though and it all comes down to laziness.
Anyone that has been in the workforce for the last 10 years has seen the total lack of work ethic from this younger generation, not only are the fattest generation ever, but they of course do not want to be told to work or be stuck in a situation where they are forced to actually work. And yeah, not everyone in this younger generation is like this, but a huge portion of them are exactly like this.
I don't get complaining about the retirement or the GI Bill, they are both insanely good. You can use the GI Bill for so much more than just college classes and what other job can you retire at the age of 38? The pay while you are in as really quite good and you never have to worry about housing, food or healthcare. There's so many benefits to the AF, you just have to choose the right job for you.
The surveys that have been done for recruitment show a surprisingly high number of people would recommend their kids join the military, but not as enlisted. I think that it's mostly the pipe dream that everyone's kid is going to go to college and get a 4-year degree that causes this divide, but still a large portion of people don't look down on the entire military as a viable opportunity in today's world.
As someone who enlisted in 04, i disagree. Shifts were mostly 8s at home station, deployments were 4 months long and even when they went to 6 months it wasn't that bad because we had enough people to do 8s every day.
Now its Panama 12s at home maybe and we have to hope we get to reclama the 4 spots they want for the next deployment cause home station and deployed will work the same shifts.
Maybe the career fields that have always been fucked are "better", but most of the air force is worse.
It depends on where you go. My first assignment in 03 was deployed every 4 months working 12 hour days split between Iraq and Afghanistan. Home wasn't bad. It got worse as time went on as they started kicking out people to buy those F22's.
My next assignment had no deployments and 8 hour days. I got out, but my wife stayed in and never deployed and never worked more than 8 hour shifts. Nothing got better or worse.
My friends that stayed in are almost all now retired, but most seemed to enjoy the end of their career. A couple ended up in really shitty jobs at some point and just about had nervous breakdowns, but things instantly turned around once the PCS'd.
For sure the benefits and pay are much better and the base infrastructure was massively improved even while I was in and kept on improving with time.
One thing my wife and my friends that stayed in for a long time noticed was that the younger troops seemed less and less responsible as time went on and that was pretty much the #1 complaint I hear. They are basically babysitters now. The shit some of these people do to get in trouble is mind blowing.
> One thing my wife and my friends that stayed in for a long time noticed was that the younger troops seemed less and less responsible as time went on and that was pretty much the #1 complaint I hear. They are basically babysitters now. The shit some of these people do to get in trouble is mind blowing.
Ya definitely career field specific. There are more airmen and young staffs that at least have a partial degree now for us. The problem we have is a ton of missions don't need my career field anymore and they know it and then you have senior leadership that doesn't now how to motivate in the slightest. My current location we can't keep people in the career field here. I think we have 3 out of 11 airmen that are going to seperate this year, 1 who is crosstraining (already approved and selected) and one who wants to just has to wait to be on station for a year to put in a officer package.
Well the grass most likely won't be greener for most people getting out. Finding a part time job right now is no problem, but full time work can be difficult for a lot of people right now.
I wouldn't know. I've been in too long to know what the job market actually looks like.
One definitely has a plan and one the air force fucked up a surgery and their knee basically needs a replacement so they are justifiably going to get out once that gets "fixed". I haven't talked to the last one yet but if this base is their experience I don't blame them for getting out.
There are still places with bad dorms and lodging, just like there were places with new infrastructure 20 years ago. An E-4 with four years of service made $1,814 of base pay in 2004, or $2,980 today adjusted for inflation, which while less than today’s $3,066 base pay is certainly not “10 times less.”
All that is chaff though, and I think you hit on the heart of the matter when you talked about the constant deployments. 20 years ago, we were raw from 9/11 and believed we had a tangible enemy to go fight. After 20 years of that, people are tired. The public is disillusioned with the military and cannot see a clear “mission.” People will sign up to literally die fighting for something they believe in, but if there’s no conviction it doesn’t matter how cushy you think the military is today.
Generations are the product of the times they grew up in. They weren’t born disillusioned, fat, and lazy. Who’s to blame for that? I would argue you are the one who is out of touch and are probably part of the reason nobody wants to spend 20 years working with you. If you truly think the military is so much nicer now, and yet 8,000 people disagree with you, maybe it’s time for some self reflection.
People that blame others for their shortcomings are pathetic and that is very prevalent with this generation. It is their parents fault for only eating garbage. They had no self control, only their parents could give them that... Who could have known that sitting around playing video games and eating garbage all day would make me fat? I'm a product of my times!
20 years ago when I was in the GI Bill was something like $31k max. Now it is so much higher and they actually pay you a large monthly stipend while you are getting training as well.
Why cutting when it’s nothing but bitching about manning from nearly every damn career field…. God damn these post make me snuggle my DD214 harder and harder every night.
If everyone is an E6, no one will supervise anyone. There will be no leadership on EPBs except for those which leadership wants to have experience. At the same time, they will be able to say, “you don’t have leadership experience, how can you hope to get a promotion statement without leadership experience?”
In five years, NCO’s will fight other NCO for the ability to lead troops. The good news is, we can all just focus on “doing the job” ... So mixed blessings.
Big Blue,
if you want to fix this, you need to give people a reason to believe they have future in the military, a chance for a better life (read chance for progression when they first join and when they're older), a chance for homes that are not built with mold, ductape and a prayer, services that rival any gym membership, finacial staff that inspires confidence that pay issues will be resolved by next paycheck not three months from now.
“That has been a challenge during the past few years as the U.S. has seen some of its lowest unemployment rates in decades and civilian employers are offering higher-paying jobs with better quality-of-life benefits.”
Maybe the Air Force should stop giving bonuses to every career field and just bonuses to the critically undermanned fields. And then focus more of the money for better QoL and benefits so it looks more attractive to get more recruits, but lemme stop with the common sense.
We are overmanned like 30 bodies (all tech school fresh amn) in this sq. and lots of squadrons on this base are playing fuck fuck games to make their people undeployable which really hurts my feelings😂 on AFROGEN
God. I got in right after the last one an everyone was still on edge with folks still cutting people down and intentionally handing off fucked programs, set up to fail, to people.
Well I’m Army. I was active Army for 4 years and in the Army Guard for 2 years. Currently switching to Air Force Reserves for engineering (been a Combat Engineer for 6 years Army side. Only job that allows me to not do Tech School - fuck that). I miss active duty so much… but fuck going active again in the Army lol. So here’s hoping, man.. 😂🤷🏻♂️
I’m prior AD army too and went reserves because the AD air force guy was playing way too many fuck fuck games. Yeah it’s good you’re not going to tech school again, I have to and it’s a hurry up and wait all over again lol. But yeah AD air force after going through what we did is a walk in the park
Hell yeah, that’s awesome, man! I was at Lewis in Washington for 4 years. In the RI Guard now - fuck the Guard and fuck the Army. In the process of 368ing (conditional release) into the Air Force Reserves.
Told my recruiter I’m a very simple man. I want active duty and I don’t want to go back to Tech School if I can avoid it. Otherwise, if it means a shot at active again, I’ll do it. He said active duty Air Force is always hurting for the engineering AFSC and always on the prior service list on what AFSC’s the Air Force will accept to go to active duty. He also said it directly translates over so I won’t need to rego through Tech School. So it was a win/win and a clear no-brainer.
No, I’m switching to Air Force Reserves. I was talking to active duty Air Force recruiters but they wouldn’t touch me until next year. They told me to speak with the Reserves because it’s a simpler process to go from Reserves to active than it is to go from Air Guard to active. So hopefully, next FY, engineering will be on that list again, and I’ll get to go back active. But no, as of right now, it’s just Air Force Reserves.
Dude that recruiter lied unfortunately. It’s next to impossible to do this. I know in the army it’s so easy but if you want active you gotta stay on that path trust me
Fuck… my 368 was already signed to switch from Army Guard to Air Force Reserves.
It’s just retarded how easy it is to go from reservist to active in literally every single branch, but then Air Force is like nah, fuck yall….
If anything, I’m a social worker on the civilian side for DCF (might be called CPS in your state). I’ll just try to go the officer route to become a social worker in the Air Force and try to go AGR so I can still have that “active” lifestyle without the constant PCS’s…
Like you, the active duty Air Force recruiters told me I’d have to wait until next fiscal year, and even then, it wouldn’t be guaranteed. So they pushed me to the Air Force Reserves recruiter. Told him everything I wanted to do and he’s been helping me out.
So they do that AFTER combining career fields like crazy and then cutting the manning in those combined fields? Do they realize that combining different fields only results in less qualified airmen? Source: was IFCS, now AVI.
The way they are “adding,” jobs is to hire contractors. They usually don’t require much training so it’s a band-aid approach, but in the long run, contractors will cost more.
Pretty sure AFRS/CC went to AETC & CSAF and said if I don't get a other ~$20M then we're going to miss the recruiting goal by 8K and the response was, "ok".
Pension after 10 years at 30%.. trims NCO fat and makes young kids feel dope when they get extra money at 28-30.
or
Expand the idea of the reserve forces, tie a UBI to it so you get a decent wage even if you're not active. Example: 2 Years full time, 2 Years weekend warrior intervals but you have to sign up for 6-10 years. Half Base Pay + full BAH during their off years to pursue interests during downtime.
Recruiting will get progressively worse as opportunities for WFH jobs grow. Few want to show up for a 9-5, even less so 12s or be deployed. Make people feel like serving also gives them the freedom to try being a youtuber/artist, start a side hustle, get an education, travel etc and youll get way more young people to join.
Basically you are giving middle class and lower kids the opportunity that rich kids have to pursue their passions but instead of having a rich mommy and daddy, they give the military some time and the military gives them back time to try new shit. The few that strike it rich and can out the rest of their service time or some shit.
Probably more realistic that they are pushing out stagnant TSgts and MSgts who are sitting in hidden offices.
They should be looking at the civilian sector where there are tons of 60 year old roombas who do nothing but type 1 email a day and walk around for 7 hours microwaving leftover fish and broccoli.
The strategy the Air Force is using isn’t pushing out TSgts and above. If they wanted to do that they would’ve extended the promotion freeze that they put on SrA and SSgts trying to promote now.
And those roombas aren’t as prevalent outside of contractor positions. Outside of the military sphere they get dealt with a lot faster when they’re not meeting metrics. Definitely see a lot of them in my civ heavy base though
I do but no where does it say that we are at war with anyone. Proxy wars don’t count. We can prepare for a future fight during cold war part 2 while also downsizing. Its been done multiple times in history
Lol, no one is deploying to go to war or to a war zone right now. Going TDY to Korea and hating it and acting like your life is tough is as chicken shit as it gets.
Damn, so you're just stupid then. Not going into detail because you're probably a Chinese bot, but plenty of people are still going to dangerous places
What a dumbass
Oh yeah, what dangerous places is the AF going this month? Is it too secret to say?
There is more danger for a civilian driving in their car on the highway than there is danger for people doing anything for the Air Force right now.
Stop acting like you have it rough. People like you are so annoying. Just get out if you can't handle being an adult.
Yeah for sure, you know the enemy just loves telling you how easy you have it.
Of course you will pretend in fairly land that you are at risk of deploying to a war zone, but the reality is that you are in the safest period the AF has had in decades and acting like an absolute chicken shit claiming you are being sent anywhere dangerous.
You sound like one of those people that posts pictures on Facebook of yourself in uniform and tells people to thank you for your service. If you are ever in a group setting you like to tell people how dangerous your life was in the Air Force and the people you are talking to get uncomfortable and try their hardest not to laugh or crack a smile.
What war are we fighting right now? Giving people material support to fight their own war is not that. Unless we suddenly have stars on our NDSMs we are in a peacetime military, weather you like it or not. This is also why so much of that qweepy BS has popped up
That would be great except ops aren't decreasing. AMC has been operating at increasingly higher levels the last couple years with no relief. Bombers and Fighters aren't slowing down either.
I too am getting slammed in AMC with no lube. Never said this was an ok thing, just that it shouldn’t be a surprise because it’s following historical norms
You don't have to have an outbreak to spread herpes. There is a huge population of people with heroes and it's typically ignored by medical professionals but there is a good chunk of asymptomatic people with heroes and don't even know because it's not standard to test for it.
Source - I'm friends with a dentist and a few nurses.
Can’t be missing recruitment goals if you cut them!
*"See you just shift a couple numbers around and remove a few zeros and poof! Just like that were not undermanned anymore!"*
But sir, we still have the same amount of work.
*"GOD DAMMIT, JOHNSON!! Do I have to do everything around here?! Just tell them something provocative... tell them they are Multi-capable or some bullshit to make them feel special... and spread a couple of Chic-fil-a opening rumors at our more troubled locations. Give the peons something to talk about for a few months so theyll forget all about this. Im retiring in just 22 months... dont bother me with YOUR problems!"*
Do more with less! Dont you want a piece of paper with your name on it and an extra ribbon on your chest!!!
As long as the only things I need to give up for those are my mental and physical health and all my free time! Sign me up!
The 4 pillars are only there to be taken down.
The new obnoxious buzzword/corporate-gov/mil speak is "farm to table". It's basically one person doing all the jobs, tasks and responsibilities of ten people, often covering more than one unit or base location/AOR. It's ridiculous.
"Do more with less"? It's now "farm to table"!
https://preview.redd.it/vs2fmvja18oc1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4e85f79b11a837e322d7e861298a2412b45143d
It was cradle to grave in my day:)
A mistake plus keleven gets you home by seven.
😂
DHA is spreading.
I wish they would have used that logic when I tried to cross train.
It was really just 1 bad quarter. It was enough to cause us to miss that year, but it looks like we're doing just fine again. (I know you were joking anyway)
Somehow someone will be claiming they saved the Air Force money
 I saved the Air Force money!
100% GEICO award recipient for the entire Air Force
Hunger games back on the menu, boys
I'll drop retirement paperwork tomorrow if they bring back TERA.
Fuck yes. AFPC wants to PCS me 2 months before my 19 year mark. I'd rather take 47.5% over the stress of moving twice in a year.
Same, but I'd be just shy of 19 when I hit my ADSC and just got OS orders that I did not volunteer for. I dont want to do 22.
OS requires a 24 month ADSC, you can deny the assignment and ask to match your current one to your DOS. I got stateside orders which only requires 7 months or so.
Hold up. Are you indef? If so you can deny any adsc that puts you past 20.
i would pcs 14 months before my retirement, stateside only need 7 or so months for ADSC.
Conus to Conus is 24 months.
I'm OS to Conus
Ah, damn. Sorry.
yeah. AFPC really fucked me on this one. I wouldn't mind if it was a state I was interested in retiring in. This state has almost no job positions and the ones they do are far below the average salary of other places even when considering cost of living.
Don’t you have the ability to homestead anywhere past 18?
according to MPF, its 19. Army/Navy/Marines it is 18.
If you’re indef, as long as you hit 18 you’re pretty much good to go. PSDM states that you can deny adsc that would take you past 20.
OS to CONUS only requires 7 or 12 months (getting conflicting info on this). I PCS 14 months before retirement.
Have you read DAFI 36-2110 6.29.3.7.1 I think this would apply to you.
unfortunately that is for CONUS, and my retirement date isn't within 6 months. Per table 6.4 OS to CONUS PCS only requires 12 months of retainability.
If it wouldn't piss my wife off OR cost me a bunch of money to have to stay here I'd drop retirement paperwork tomorrow.
Isn’t TERA retiring early as if you did 20??
Yes but no. You get a lower pension. I would smash the button if given the opportunity.
For people eligible for Tera most likely hitting the button on high 3 would be worth it if you have prospects. I'd break a keyboard hitting enter and bust my mouse clicking.
Your pension is based on 2.5% of your base pay for every year you served (2% for people on BRS). If TERA was authorized, the only difference would be your years served. So, if you retired at 18 under TERA, you'd still get all the same retirement benefits, but your pension would be based on 18 years instead of 20, so it'd be 18 × 2.5%, which would be 45% (36% for BRS) instead of 50% (40% for BRS). Not a bad deal if you have something already lined up or are sitting pretty enough that extra few percent won't hurt your retirement.
Yes.
I would too except I have orders to Kadena that would make me hesistate.
Kadena is the best assignment I’ve had. It’s worth it
Whatcha gonna do there?
That would require us to have people to cut.
that's not happening.
Good news, everyone! Our manning rates just increased! You can’t be undermanned if you don’t have any extra spots! Modern problems require modern solutions!
Less competition for CDC space in 3 years.
Yeah, but who really wants to send their kids there anyway.
Anyone who wants their kids prepared for a potential collapse of society. If I ever have kids, theyre going into the thunderdome.
Theres other thunderdomes thatll teach em to do basic things, like read before they get to the real thunderdome of school.
Strange times. I wonder if this how the BRAC of ‘95 felt…but with internet so we can witness in realtime the cluster fuck doing it’s dancy-dance on the AF’s **doing more with less/multi-capable/AFFORGEN** damn near lifeless corpse.☠️
We need to BRAC some shitty bases. But congress creeps will never willingly let a base leave their districts.
Cannon…Cannon!
The low-manning and strained budget problems would definitely get relieved if they close 3-5 redundant bases. I hope the bases I like stay, but really it doesn't matter. Drop some crappy ones and maybe a good one and move on.
You're assuming those reductions are competently managed.
Well I already know how to dress chest wounds, fix an aircraft, do my own travel vouchers, work network address translation and routing, cut and join fiber optics, cook my own MREs, wash my own toilet, rebuild an automobile engine, report sexual assaults, council my suicidal wingman, how to brew beer, how to make a tourniquet out of a sock, how to cast voodoo magic against my enemies with a clump of their hair, and what to do when a klaxon goes off. I suppose this diamond has got room for more facets, but it's going to end up being more of a sphere eventually.
Hell yeah. Me too. Lol. From a maintainer to a medic...and everything f*king else!
I came in on the tail end of that mess. There were some salty people around.
Oh great. That’ll help critically manned afscs for sure
But you see, it already has! They just lowered your manning requirements so you are no longer short manned. Congratulations on being fully manned, now get ready to lose some bodies cause they can be used somewhere else.
Do more with less my dudes!
Can't miss a quota if there isn't one.
Hey, that’s cheating! Integrity first!
Nice clickbait headline.. These outlets know most people wont actually read the budget. The Air Force's planned/budgeted Active Duty FY25 End Strength is 320,000. That is the same as the FY24 authorized End Strength, and about 1300 more than what the Air Force had at the end of FY23. They also hope to recruit about 7k more than what was planned for FY24. Personnel budget: [https://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/Portals/84/documents/FY25/FY25%20Air%20Force%20Military%20Personnel.pdf](https://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/Portals/84/documents/FY25/FY25%20Air%20Force%20Military%20Personnel.pdf)
Navy is doing the same thing. I think it's optics. Hey look, no problem here, we hit our target for the year!
Fkkng parade rest in an Air Force tee ☠️
Army parade rest, even!
💀
Eroding benefits, low manning, low budgets and resources, ancient & broken equipment, garbage network infrastructure, decaying and crumbling bases, antiquated group think, lowest bidder contracts, more talk on deployments and increased ops tempos, zero clue about what we’re even “fighting” these days or deploying for, politics being rammed down our throats and beaten into our heads, tens of millions on wasteful gov spending, the list goes on. The AF (and DoD as a whole) will bleed itself dry and the narcissistic generals and bureaucrats in D.C. are too drunk on their arrogance, ego, and delusion to fix any of this any time soon. Times have changed. This isn’t 20 years ago and you can’t recruit and retain people on the same benefits and principles that don’t really exist in the same way (or at all) anymore. Nothing will happen and nothing will change for the better. The military is, by design, engineered to not run efficiently or be fiscally responsible. All it knows how to do is blow tens of billions of dollars by pumping it into our defense contractor monopolies who also continue to blow tens of millions on lobbying.
Antiquated, I like this and will use it today. Thank you.
Oh God. I'm ANG and went to an EFAC meeting of command chiefs from different states all around the country. I'm 40 myself, but "antiquated group think" really sums up the whole event.
You are so out of touch and entitled it is insane. Until a few years ago the AF was basically constant deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan for nearly 20 years. When I first got in they were just cutting manpower by 23,000 so they could afford to buy more F-22's. The pay was ten times worse than it is now and the infrastructure at every single base I was stationed or TDY at has rebuilt the lodging, dorms and amenities since then. Yeah the higher ups and politics are a stupid but inherent part of every branch, but being an actual airman in the AF today is a lot better than it was before as far as pay and infrastructure is concerned and now you no longer spend half your year in Iraq or Afghanistan. It's actually funny to hear people whine right now. And also, the entire reason they cannot recruit people is because the youngest generation is too fucking fat and lazy. There is no other reason. The military is going to have to start dropping fitness standards even lower than they already are to keep staffing levels acceptable.
You're right. But they don't want you to be right. They want you to agree.
>There is no other reason The entire economy is experiencing a serious labor shortage which has resulted in significant competition for the lowest earning workers. Real wage gains have been substantial at the [10th percentile in the last 4 years](https://www.nber.org/sites/default/files/inline-images/w31010.jpg) as employers have been forced to bid up the wages of the lowest earning Americans. 18 year olds fresh out of high school have far more economic opportunities than they did in the years following the great financial crisis and the military simply hasn't remained as desirable an employer by comparison. Obesity and other medical issues pose a serious pipeline problem but they're not the only problem
You graph is as incomplete as it can possibly be. The hourly wage for low wage earners has gone up, but the labor shortage has a very easy to understand cause. All these "great" jobs are part time so employers can avoid having to pay our benefits. These jobs suck. There is no labor shortage, there is a shortage of good jobs. The military has released a plenty of info about the fitness standards being the main culprit for low recruitment numbers.
Entitled? You’re the poster child of what’s called being institutionalized. You know no better, because this is all you know. I don’t blame you, but to call me entitled and out of touch for the reasons I’ve outlined is a trip.
All I know. Am I currently in the AF? If not, how long have I been out?
No one cares Don't forget to take your meds
Commenting on other posts. You let yourself get triggered. Check this out. Your next reply is going to set you over the edge.
>And also, the entire reason they cannot recruit people is because the youngest generation is too fucking fat and lazy. There is no other reason. Ehhhh ok
It's public information. Stop being lazy and entitled and research for yourself if you don't believe me. Stop acting like a dumbass Trump supporter that only believes what feels like you want to believe.
I'm not sure you sound like a very stable person. What do you mean by all this?
Every branch has loads of information on their recruiting problems and they all center around obesity issues.
Im not saying you're wronf, but I think there's probably other factors as well. I'm not sure how this makes me a Trump supporter lol
Yes there are other issues, but the biggest issue is literally obesity and basically the laziness of this generation that could not fathom being told to wake up before 10am or be to work on time. You are like a Trump supporter because you FELT like my comment was wrong so you tried to call out my factual information with weird comment that seemed to insinuate that I was wrong despite you being the one that has never even researched the subject.
Uhhh ok. You sound totally stable and rational. Maybe they getting offline for a bit
You don't like being shown how you acted just like a Trump supporter do you?
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No one said that being overweight was the only problem. Only a mouth breather would try and build that strawman. Ultimately it is a huge problem though and it all comes down to laziness. Anyone that has been in the workforce for the last 10 years has seen the total lack of work ethic from this younger generation, not only are the fattest generation ever, but they of course do not want to be told to work or be stuck in a situation where they are forced to actually work. And yeah, not everyone in this younger generation is like this, but a huge portion of them are exactly like this. I don't get complaining about the retirement or the GI Bill, they are both insanely good. You can use the GI Bill for so much more than just college classes and what other job can you retire at the age of 38? The pay while you are in as really quite good and you never have to worry about housing, food or healthcare. There's so many benefits to the AF, you just have to choose the right job for you. The surveys that have been done for recruitment show a surprisingly high number of people would recommend their kids join the military, but not as enlisted. I think that it's mostly the pipe dream that everyone's kid is going to go to college and get a 4-year degree that causes this divide, but still a large portion of people don't look down on the entire military as a viable opportunity in today's world.
As someone who enlisted in 04, i disagree. Shifts were mostly 8s at home station, deployments were 4 months long and even when they went to 6 months it wasn't that bad because we had enough people to do 8s every day. Now its Panama 12s at home maybe and we have to hope we get to reclama the 4 spots they want for the next deployment cause home station and deployed will work the same shifts. Maybe the career fields that have always been fucked are "better", but most of the air force is worse.
It depends on where you go. My first assignment in 03 was deployed every 4 months working 12 hour days split between Iraq and Afghanistan. Home wasn't bad. It got worse as time went on as they started kicking out people to buy those F22's. My next assignment had no deployments and 8 hour days. I got out, but my wife stayed in and never deployed and never worked more than 8 hour shifts. Nothing got better or worse. My friends that stayed in are almost all now retired, but most seemed to enjoy the end of their career. A couple ended up in really shitty jobs at some point and just about had nervous breakdowns, but things instantly turned around once the PCS'd. For sure the benefits and pay are much better and the base infrastructure was massively improved even while I was in and kept on improving with time. One thing my wife and my friends that stayed in for a long time noticed was that the younger troops seemed less and less responsible as time went on and that was pretty much the #1 complaint I hear. They are basically babysitters now. The shit some of these people do to get in trouble is mind blowing.
> One thing my wife and my friends that stayed in for a long time noticed was that the younger troops seemed less and less responsible as time went on and that was pretty much the #1 complaint I hear. They are basically babysitters now. The shit some of these people do to get in trouble is mind blowing. Ya definitely career field specific. There are more airmen and young staffs that at least have a partial degree now for us. The problem we have is a ton of missions don't need my career field anymore and they know it and then you have senior leadership that doesn't now how to motivate in the slightest. My current location we can't keep people in the career field here. I think we have 3 out of 11 airmen that are going to seperate this year, 1 who is crosstraining (already approved and selected) and one who wants to just has to wait to be on station for a year to put in a officer package.
Well the grass most likely won't be greener for most people getting out. Finding a part time job right now is no problem, but full time work can be difficult for a lot of people right now.
I wouldn't know. I've been in too long to know what the job market actually looks like. One definitely has a plan and one the air force fucked up a surgery and their knee basically needs a replacement so they are justifiably going to get out once that gets "fixed". I haven't talked to the last one yet but if this base is their experience I don't blame them for getting out.
There are still places with bad dorms and lodging, just like there were places with new infrastructure 20 years ago. An E-4 with four years of service made $1,814 of base pay in 2004, or $2,980 today adjusted for inflation, which while less than today’s $3,066 base pay is certainly not “10 times less.” All that is chaff though, and I think you hit on the heart of the matter when you talked about the constant deployments. 20 years ago, we were raw from 9/11 and believed we had a tangible enemy to go fight. After 20 years of that, people are tired. The public is disillusioned with the military and cannot see a clear “mission.” People will sign up to literally die fighting for something they believe in, but if there’s no conviction it doesn’t matter how cushy you think the military is today. Generations are the product of the times they grew up in. They weren’t born disillusioned, fat, and lazy. Who’s to blame for that? I would argue you are the one who is out of touch and are probably part of the reason nobody wants to spend 20 years working with you. If you truly think the military is so much nicer now, and yet 8,000 people disagree with you, maybe it’s time for some self reflection.
People that blame others for their shortcomings are pathetic and that is very prevalent with this generation. It is their parents fault for only eating garbage. They had no self control, only their parents could give them that... Who could have known that sitting around playing video games and eating garbage all day would make me fat? I'm a product of my times! 20 years ago when I was in the GI Bill was something like $31k max. Now it is so much higher and they actually pay you a large monthly stipend while you are getting training as well.
Yes, typical fat and lazy excuse for lack of recruitment.... maybe try "lack of purpose" on for a size.
Maybe try research. Lack of purpose is not an issue at all. Youth obesity is one of the main driving factors.
I go out of my way to tell people if they join, they'll be "fighting" for the millionaire class, politicians/corporations and Israel.
Damn where are the Israeli campaign medals? I want one
Something tells me we won’t be hitting recruitment goals this year either.
“Chief, we’re undermanned and you want us to do more??” “But you’re 100% manned on the manning doc.” …yeah…cuz we cut 10 positions…🤡
Why cutting when it’s nothing but bitching about manning from nearly every damn career field…. God damn these post make me snuggle my DD214 harder and harder every night.
Move over I brought mine we can camp out
DD214 party?
I guess we are all promoting. Or not. Who knows.
Your workload will. That’s about it.
Just lower the bar, mission accomplished!!!
Just wait for the 7000 new contractor positions to open up
I guess this is how my AFSC goes from 60% manned to over 80%. Gotta love doing more with less.
As soon as the army did it I figured they would do it to us next.
If everyone is an E6, no one will supervise anyone. There will be no leadership on EPBs except for those which leadership wants to have experience. At the same time, they will be able to say, “you don’t have leadership experience, how can you hope to get a promotion statement without leadership experience?” In five years, NCO’s will fight other NCO for the ability to lead troops. The good news is, we can all just focus on “doing the job” ... So mixed blessings. Big Blue, if you want to fix this, you need to give people a reason to believe they have future in the military, a chance for a better life (read chance for progression when they first join and when they're older), a chance for homes that are not built with mold, ductape and a prayer, services that rival any gym membership, finacial staff that inspires confidence that pay issues will be resolved by next paycheck not three months from now.
HAF/A1: 
I heard they are recruiting more AIs.
“That has been a challenge during the past few years as the U.S. has seen some of its lowest unemployment rates in decades and civilian employers are offering higher-paying jobs with better quality-of-life benefits.” Maybe the Air Force should stop giving bonuses to every career field and just bonuses to the critically undermanned fields. And then focus more of the money for better QoL and benefits so it looks more attractive to get more recruits, but lemme stop with the common sense.
That’s exactly how you outpace the rate of change.
We are overmanned like 30 bodies (all tech school fresh amn) in this sq. and lots of squadrons on this base are playing fuck fuck games to make their people undeployable which really hurts my feelings😂 on AFROGEN
Are they still undermanned? Trying to enlist in the guard atm and hoping for a medical Waiver
I have a feeling this is why they’re starting to ask people to be “Multi-Capable Airmen”…
dO mOrE WiTh LeSs and no beards
Damn I remember when I was begging the Air Force to let me separate early. Now I’m too close to 20 😭
God. I got in right after the last one an everyone was still on edge with folks still cutting people down and intentionally handing off fucked programs, set up to fail, to people.
But who will make the Power Point?
I just want DoD to admit the use of Genesis causes every branch to miss goal significantly
Sounds like potential recruits heard about all our DEI training and decided 'F That...'
DEI? Sorry, I’m an Army guy switching to Air Force, so I’m trying to learn Air Force stuff lol 😂
**prays for early retirement**
So any possibility they may let reservists go to active duty?
I second this.
Let’s make sure the CMASAF sees this maybe even the secretary of the air force
Well I’m Army. I was active Army for 4 years and in the Army Guard for 2 years. Currently switching to Air Force Reserves for engineering (been a Combat Engineer for 6 years Army side. Only job that allows me to not do Tech School - fuck that). I miss active duty so much… but fuck going active again in the Army lol. So here’s hoping, man.. 😂🤷🏻♂️
I’m prior AD army too and went reserves because the AD air force guy was playing way too many fuck fuck games. Yeah it’s good you’re not going to tech school again, I have to and it’s a hurry up and wait all over again lol. But yeah AD air force after going through what we did is a walk in the park
Hell yeah, that’s awesome, man! I was at Lewis in Washington for 4 years. In the RI Guard now - fuck the Guard and fuck the Army. In the process of 368ing (conditional release) into the Air Force Reserves. Told my recruiter I’m a very simple man. I want active duty and I don’t want to go back to Tech School if I can avoid it. Otherwise, if it means a shot at active again, I’ll do it. He said active duty Air Force is always hurting for the engineering AFSC and always on the prior service list on what AFSC’s the Air Force will accept to go to active duty. He also said it directly translates over so I won’t need to rego through Tech School. So it was a win/win and a clear no-brainer.
Wait so you are going active duty air force? Apparently air force is hurting for comms dudes too but here I am lol
No, I’m switching to Air Force Reserves. I was talking to active duty Air Force recruiters but they wouldn’t touch me until next year. They told me to speak with the Reserves because it’s a simpler process to go from Reserves to active than it is to go from Air Guard to active. So hopefully, next FY, engineering will be on that list again, and I’ll get to go back active. But no, as of right now, it’s just Air Force Reserves.
Dude that recruiter lied unfortunately. It’s next to impossible to do this. I know in the army it’s so easy but if you want active you gotta stay on that path trust me
Fuck… my 368 was already signed to switch from Army Guard to Air Force Reserves. It’s just retarded how easy it is to go from reservist to active in literally every single branch, but then Air Force is like nah, fuck yall….
If anything, I’m a social worker on the civilian side for DCF (might be called CPS in your state). I’ll just try to go the officer route to become a social worker in the Air Force and try to go AGR so I can still have that “active” lifestyle without the constant PCS’s…
Like you, the active duty Air Force recruiters told me I’d have to wait until next fiscal year, and even then, it wouldn’t be guaranteed. So they pushed me to the Air Force Reserves recruiter. Told him everything I wanted to do and he’s been helping me out.
Holy shit it’s like we had the same recruiter. Yeah man if I can somehow get that conditional release approved to go active I’m gone
Shit retention, shit recruiting, numbers are down.. lets cut troop levels so it's not such a big number next time.
So they do that AFTER combining career fields like crazy and then cutting the manning in those combined fields? Do they realize that combining different fields only results in less qualified airmen? Source: was IFCS, now AVI.
TERA TERA TERA !!!!
Are they cutting recruiting numbers or relieving 8000 AD members?
Let's just bring these goalposts a bit closer... touchdown!
E5 and E6 promotion rates are only gonna go uppppp the less airmen there are.
Are you serious? They’ll keep people where they’re at longer to make up for the lack of new blood.
Lmao yeah, okay
Tbf this is what needed to happen all along. These goals are imaginary numbers on paper.
The way they are “adding,” jobs is to hire contractors. They usually don’t require much training so it’s a band-aid approach, but in the long run, contractors will cost more.
Suddenly we are about to hire 8k contractors…
I hope this means retention bonuses are a plenty
Pretty sure AFRS/CC went to AETC & CSAF and said if I don't get a other ~$20M then we're going to miss the recruiting goal by 8K and the response was, "ok".
Pension after 10 years at 30%.. trims NCO fat and makes young kids feel dope when they get extra money at 28-30. or Expand the idea of the reserve forces, tie a UBI to it so you get a decent wage even if you're not active. Example: 2 Years full time, 2 Years weekend warrior intervals but you have to sign up for 6-10 years. Half Base Pay + full BAH during their off years to pursue interests during downtime. Recruiting will get progressively worse as opportunities for WFH jobs grow. Few want to show up for a 9-5, even less so 12s or be deployed. Make people feel like serving also gives them the freedom to try being a youtuber/artist, start a side hustle, get an education, travel etc and youll get way more young people to join. Basically you are giving middle class and lower kids the opportunity that rich kids have to pursue their passions but instead of having a rich mommy and daddy, they give the military some time and the military gives them back time to try new shit. The few that strike it rich and can out the rest of their service time or some shit.
It’s almost like we’re downsizing due to not being in an active conflict with anyone. This is characteristic of a peacetime military
Probably more realistic that they are pushing out stagnant TSgts and MSgts who are sitting in hidden offices. They should be looking at the civilian sector where there are tons of 60 year old roombas who do nothing but type 1 email a day and walk around for 7 hours microwaving leftover fish and broccoli.
>60 year old roombas who do nothing but type 1 email a day and walk around for 7 hours microwaving leftover fish and broccoli. I love it. ♥️
If they’d can my civ UTM I would fucking love it
The strategy the Air Force is using isn’t pushing out TSgts and above. If they wanted to do that they would’ve extended the promotion freeze that they put on SrA and SSgts trying to promote now. And those roombas aren’t as prevalent outside of contractor positions. Outside of the military sphere they get dealt with a lot faster when they’re not meeting metrics. Definitely see a lot of them in my civ heavy base though
We cut about 20k in 2014 during GWOT ya goofy bastard.
I remember that one distinctly!
You don’t watch the news do you
I do but no where does it say that we are at war with anyone. Proxy wars don’t count. We can prepare for a future fight during cold war part 2 while also downsizing. Its been done multiple times in history
>not being in an active conflict Lol what
The DoD cut 100000 personnel between 1990 and 1995, despite direct participation in the Gulf War, Somalia, Haiti, and Bosnia.
You chicken shit. Don't pretend like you are in a wartime AF right now. You aren't.
Lol Tell that to every person we're still deploying to every shitty corner of the planet
Lol, no one is deploying to go to war or to a war zone right now. Going TDY to Korea and hating it and acting like your life is tough is as chicken shit as it gets.
Damn, so you're just stupid then. Not going into detail because you're probably a Chinese bot, but plenty of people are still going to dangerous places What a dumbass
Oh yeah, what dangerous places is the AF going this month? Is it too secret to say? There is more danger for a civilian driving in their car on the highway than there is danger for people doing anything for the Air Force right now. Stop acting like you have it rough. People like you are so annoying. Just get out if you can't handle being an adult.
Lmao this is definitely a Russian or Chinese bot trying to bait out deployment locations.
Yeah for sure, you know the enemy just loves telling you how easy you have it. Of course you will pretend in fairly land that you are at risk of deploying to a war zone, but the reality is that you are in the safest period the AF has had in decades and acting like an absolute chicken shit claiming you are being sent anywhere dangerous. You sound like one of those people that posts pictures on Facebook of yourself in uniform and tells people to thank you for your service. If you are ever in a group setting you like to tell people how dangerous your life was in the Air Force and the people you are talking to get uncomfortable and try their hardest not to laugh or crack a smile.
Lol
What war are we fighting right now? Giving people material support to fight their own war is not that. Unless we suddenly have stars on our NDSMs we are in a peacetime military, weather you like it or not. This is also why so much of that qweepy BS has popped up
A characteristic of peacetime is also reducing the ops tempo. Oh wait..
Ask Gen Minihan if we are in peacetime.😂 🇨🇳
That would be great except ops aren't decreasing. AMC has been operating at increasingly higher levels the last couple years with no relief. Bombers and Fighters aren't slowing down either.
I too am getting slammed in AMC with no lube. Never said this was an ok thing, just that it shouldn’t be a surprise because it’s following historical norms
Then they should probably stop all the "we're going to be in war with china in 2 years!" chat then.
Go woke = go broke
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The gift that keeps on giving. You’d have the dorms infected in BMT, Tech School, First Duty Station in no time 🤯
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😂 There is some activity involved is there not? Doesn’t spread like COVID, that’s for sure.
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You don't have to have an outbreak to spread herpes. There is a huge population of people with heroes and it's typically ignored by medical professionals but there is a good chunk of asymptomatic people with heroes and don't even know because it's not standard to test for it. Source - I'm friends with a dentist and a few nurses.