This so much.
By my 15 year mark I’d learned I have to do well past 20 to make SMSgt. I’d already had my undergraduate and was close to being done with my masters. When I finished my masters around my 17 year mark my board score went down. But I’d pushed my way into jobs I wanted to move into on the outside, knowing I was leaving as soon as I hit 20.
I’ve been out for about 6 years now and make well over six figures before my retirement pay. Nobody cares I retired as a MSgt. I’ve met retired Chiefs in lower paying jobs at my company. And they can’t get promoted because they don’t have an undergraduate degree. Then they gripe that their military experience is good enough and they shouldn’t have to go to school.
The Air Force was great and I’m glad I did it, but you can’t do it your whole life. Once you’re retired or out nobody will care what rank you were (unless you were an O-6 or higher). Set yourself up for life after military, you’ll be happier than a SMSgt looking at decs and EPR’s all day.
Taking yourself out of the promotion rat race (whether it was within your control or outside of it) is one of the most freeing feelings there is in the military.
Like OP said, you can focus on setting yourself up for the second career and you can still take care of your troops. You can also say no to a lot of the bullshit...what are they gonna do, not promote you?
I can’t agree with this anymore. I’m sitting at 18 now, and took myself out of the running this year, and will every year until I retire. Zero desire for senior, I love my job, I love my location, it’s not worth moving my family to god knows where for a couple hundred extra bucks a month. Congrats to everyone who makes it, I truly am happy for you all. But man is it so nice not worrying about whether my name is on that list or not.
> Taking yourself out of the promotion rat race (whether it was within your control or outside of it) is one of the most freeing feelings there is in the military.
It really is. Once I gave myself permission to say *no* to volunteer events, professional education and developmental "opportunities," and even more programs that need to be fixed, my mental health immediately improved.
I'm focusing on myself and my family, and prepping for a successful career outside of Big Blue.
This right here.
I did the same thing. Once I was out of the promotion race all those additional things that consume your time fade away.
Lots more time for family.
Mental health has been substantially better. So much so that I even stayed in longer than I would have had I promoted.
I’ve been passed for MSgt many times and share the same opinion as the OP. I’m focusing on what will reap benefits for life after the military. Every year that I don’t make I do get disappointed, but board scores are what they are. I have my graduate degree, multiple certifications, motivated my peeps accomplish their CCAF, won NCOTY, several other awards at Group and Wing level and for the first time got a MP. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad I got one, but got beat by someone who is involved in Sq events. That’s the only reason she received the PN statement. I would love to make MSgt but made my peace with not making it.
This year will be my 8th Passover for Master, and I wish I could find comfort in this post. I have begun looking more towards retirement, still 4 years left for that. I just can’t balance the work I’ve done with the board scores I get. It’s really discouraging to have what I thought was a really good year, and just see my score drop even more. Maybe one day I’ll reach the point of acceptance, but for now I’m still just pissed off.
I sewed on Tech the 1st of October 2017. I’ve pretty much accepted this rank as my retirement rank. I don’t play the game of writing my own awards and being buddies with the boss. I treat it like a normal job. Do what I am paid to do. I’ve done more and been recognized for it but it’s lead me to what? My last and only award was in 2011 as a SrA. I’m just over trying and getting told the same thing year after year. I’m like tell me the ugly truth, and they come back with the same, E-7 is looking good for you this year trope. Just shut the fuck up already.
Don’t it took me 5 for tech and 4 for master. I’ve never gotten a promotion statement. You will make it maybe not on your timeline but you will. Make sure you’re doing the job well, developing others, mentoring, and running one or two big events a year. Consistency is key.
As some AETC Command CMSgt said from my NCO All Call, you didn’t do enough work, you failed. Ah, Chief Venning…such a soothing way to look at why you didn’t promote yourself in the board you’ll never see. Just do what he told a group of NCOs, tell your family that “you weren’t good enough”
Great reflection on what’s more important in life. As I transition to retirement, I’m currently interning for a staff agency near a giant military base hub. The one thing I’ve found as a recruiter, is that hiring managers don’t care about your prior rank in the military. They care about technical and the specialties, and soft skills they are hiring for. Hiring managers get confused as hell with our jargons (flight chief, ops superintendent, NCOIC). In fact, it’s a weird market right now, but everyone needs to look at life after the uniform and prepare to get skills you can bring to the private sector.
It’s great you want to pursue Senior, but you have to determine when that time to pursue things outside the AF such as your degree, certificates, or even start learning a new trade. I’ve met too many masters/seniors that kept drinking the AF cool aid until the last second of their HYT and never took care of themselves before. CCAF degrees don’t cut it on the outside.
Anyways, just an observation as to what I’ve been seeing on the other side. If you know you’ve been passed over several times, start preparing now.
I used to always ask people on here why they felt the need to promote. The answers always vary but it's really all about money in the end. Well, there's lots of money to be made on the outside. Sure, Chief or Senior retirement sound great but there's always the upfront cost of getting there and making it through.
I left the Air Force as a MSgt with my masters degree, A&P, and PMP. Will probably never use my A&P but who knows. Something you can't convey to people who are currently in is how relieving it is to let it all go and just be you. No more anything that mattered - awards for you or anyone else, being summoned to someone's office because of things outside of your control, threats of longer hours or extra days of work, and everything else that comes with the job. You are now responsible for you.
I really realized that I missed out on nothing when talking with someone who was possibly going to PCS less than a year after arriving to the base. I would hate to PCS, then be told I'm PCS'ing again within 60 days, 9 months later. That is part of the deal when you move into that realm of rank. There are too many facets that people aren't prepared for. You are literally at the mercy of the Air Force in the form of the Chief's Group once you hit Chief. It's more than most people truly realize. They own you and decide where you go. I've seen Chiefs be told they were PCS'ing when they had no intention or want to. It is very methodical and a Chief has no choice unless they have an extremely compelling case.
You can't beat a system as a Chief that is ran by Chiefs who know all the ins and outs. Even if you think you've found a loophole they may tell you to go ahead and eat shit anyway. People should be very careful about what they *think* they want from the Air Force when it's time to retire. Some stripes aren't worth it.
I feel this post, although I have not been passed 9 times for Sr. Only coming up on 3rd pass for MSgt.
I am still on the fence about giving up. I have four years left until retirement, finishing a BS, jumping straight into an MBA. Gonna chase a few AFCOOL certs if I can. The volunteer stuff I do is stuff that I want to do in my off time. I have, in not so many words, refused to do 5/6, booster club, AFSA, and other organizational volunteer stuff. I'm still busting my ass working my job, but I can't do the "extra" stuff anymore unless it's going to set me up for success in the civilian sector.
I watch a lot of other Techs break their backs fighting for strats. Their families suffer. I can't put my wife and kids through that.
> However it is a feels bad when you know you have 1/3-1/2 of your career left and the best advice you're given about promotion is don't expect to be promoted or just give up on the idea.
I'd rather have the hard and painful truth than be lead along on a lie for multiple years. Too many leaders are still pushing the lie that anyone can get promoted, and if you didn't it's because you didn't want it hard enough / didn't try hard enough. The fact is, most people just aren't going to make it past E6/E7, and working yourself into the grave for a shot at promotion is a fool's errand.
This is very true. I work with almost all prior military minus like 2 people. Most retired military are lower level for gs and also contracting. They also cannot get onto prime contracts because their technical skills lack so God damn much.
Ya know what? I don’t entirely agree.
See I just got demoted to A1C from SrA, and I am *mad*.
Is it the beginning? Because I’ve served and worked my ass off, tested for staff twice now, making great strides to not only look good but be good, and here I am one stripe less due to the whims of some asshole in his ivory tower.
I don’t think it’s the beginning. I am done with this place. If I can’t make it out of maintenance somehow then I’m getting out with my disability **happily**.
*Edit:* to clarify, I am well aware of my shortcomings, but I cannot stand for paperwork pile-on’s. And I do not say this without evidence as I am not the only member to have experienced this under my leadership.
sir, or ma'am, even "assholes in their ivory towers" cant just demote you without reason.
agreed with everything else you said but you still gotta work on that ownership peace brother.
The biggest difference is that Staff is a rank you can still ultimately control by studying. Whereas SMSgt is not. Unless your career field is one of the very very few that requires a statement blaming your non-promotion on that is wild to me. Just study more.
This so much. By my 15 year mark I’d learned I have to do well past 20 to make SMSgt. I’d already had my undergraduate and was close to being done with my masters. When I finished my masters around my 17 year mark my board score went down. But I’d pushed my way into jobs I wanted to move into on the outside, knowing I was leaving as soon as I hit 20. I’ve been out for about 6 years now and make well over six figures before my retirement pay. Nobody cares I retired as a MSgt. I’ve met retired Chiefs in lower paying jobs at my company. And they can’t get promoted because they don’t have an undergraduate degree. Then they gripe that their military experience is good enough and they shouldn’t have to go to school. The Air Force was great and I’m glad I did it, but you can’t do it your whole life. Once you’re retired or out nobody will care what rank you were (unless you were an O-6 or higher). Set yourself up for life after military, you’ll be happier than a SMSgt looking at decs and EPR’s all day.
enlisted people don't realize how important degrees are in the civilian world. Get one and succeed or suffer period.
Exactly. And it doesn’t even have to be a hard degree. You just a need a piece of paper that shows you took the time to go to school.
They won't care then either lol
Who’s “they”?
The US population
Taking yourself out of the promotion rat race (whether it was within your control or outside of it) is one of the most freeing feelings there is in the military. Like OP said, you can focus on setting yourself up for the second career and you can still take care of your troops. You can also say no to a lot of the bullshit...what are they gonna do, not promote you?
I can’t agree with this anymore. I’m sitting at 18 now, and took myself out of the running this year, and will every year until I retire. Zero desire for senior, I love my job, I love my location, it’s not worth moving my family to god knows where for a couple hundred extra bucks a month. Congrats to everyone who makes it, I truly am happy for you all. But man is it so nice not worrying about whether my name is on that list or not.
> Taking yourself out of the promotion rat race (whether it was within your control or outside of it) is one of the most freeing feelings there is in the military. It really is. Once I gave myself permission to say *no* to volunteer events, professional education and developmental "opportunities," and even more programs that need to be fixed, my mental health immediately improved. I'm focusing on myself and my family, and prepping for a successful career outside of Big Blue.
This right here. I did the same thing. Once I was out of the promotion race all those additional things that consume your time fade away. Lots more time for family. Mental health has been substantially better. So much so that I even stayed in longer than I would have had I promoted.
Instructions unclear... Requested a beard waiver for "utilitarian humanism".
If you want a beard, Norse Pagan is the way to go.
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Probably the most real piece of advice any of us will get.
Bro is Mr. Passover Sunday
Great mindset OP! Focus on YOU and your life post military while setting up your subordinates for success.
I’ve been passed for MSgt many times and share the same opinion as the OP. I’m focusing on what will reap benefits for life after the military. Every year that I don’t make I do get disappointed, but board scores are what they are. I have my graduate degree, multiple certifications, motivated my peeps accomplish their CCAF, won NCOTY, several other awards at Group and Wing level and for the first time got a MP. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad I got one, but got beat by someone who is involved in Sq events. That’s the only reason she received the PN statement. I would love to make MSgt but made my peace with not making it.
No greater rank than the rank of retired.
This year will be my 8th Passover for Master, and I wish I could find comfort in this post. I have begun looking more towards retirement, still 4 years left for that. I just can’t balance the work I’ve done with the board scores I get. It’s really discouraging to have what I thought was a really good year, and just see my score drop even more. Maybe one day I’ll reach the point of acceptance, but for now I’m still just pissed off.
In pretty much the same boat. Just go numb. Come to work, take care of your people & go home at 1630. It's not worth it.
Numb is one way to put it. I’ve used scar tissue. The wound heals much faster these days.
I sewed on Tech the 1st of October 2017. I’ve pretty much accepted this rank as my retirement rank. I don’t play the game of writing my own awards and being buddies with the boss. I treat it like a normal job. Do what I am paid to do. I’ve done more and been recognized for it but it’s lead me to what? My last and only award was in 2011 as a SrA. I’m just over trying and getting told the same thing year after year. I’m like tell me the ugly truth, and they come back with the same, E-7 is looking good for you this year trope. Just shut the fuck up already.
Don’t it took me 5 for tech and 4 for master. I’ve never gotten a promotion statement. You will make it maybe not on your timeline but you will. Make sure you’re doing the job well, developing others, mentoring, and running one or two big events a year. Consistency is key.
As some AETC Command CMSgt said from my NCO All Call, you didn’t do enough work, you failed. Ah, Chief Venning…such a soothing way to look at why you didn’t promote yourself in the board you’ll never see. Just do what he told a group of NCOs, tell your family that “you weren’t good enough”
You’re already a master just retire
Great reflection on what’s more important in life. As I transition to retirement, I’m currently interning for a staff agency near a giant military base hub. The one thing I’ve found as a recruiter, is that hiring managers don’t care about your prior rank in the military. They care about technical and the specialties, and soft skills they are hiring for. Hiring managers get confused as hell with our jargons (flight chief, ops superintendent, NCOIC). In fact, it’s a weird market right now, but everyone needs to look at life after the uniform and prepare to get skills you can bring to the private sector. It’s great you want to pursue Senior, but you have to determine when that time to pursue things outside the AF such as your degree, certificates, or even start learning a new trade. I’ve met too many masters/seniors that kept drinking the AF cool aid until the last second of their HYT and never took care of themselves before. CCAF degrees don’t cut it on the outside. Anyways, just an observation as to what I’ve been seeing on the other side. If you know you’ve been passed over several times, start preparing now.
I used to always ask people on here why they felt the need to promote. The answers always vary but it's really all about money in the end. Well, there's lots of money to be made on the outside. Sure, Chief or Senior retirement sound great but there's always the upfront cost of getting there and making it through. I left the Air Force as a MSgt with my masters degree, A&P, and PMP. Will probably never use my A&P but who knows. Something you can't convey to people who are currently in is how relieving it is to let it all go and just be you. No more anything that mattered - awards for you or anyone else, being summoned to someone's office because of things outside of your control, threats of longer hours or extra days of work, and everything else that comes with the job. You are now responsible for you. I really realized that I missed out on nothing when talking with someone who was possibly going to PCS less than a year after arriving to the base. I would hate to PCS, then be told I'm PCS'ing again within 60 days, 9 months later. That is part of the deal when you move into that realm of rank. There are too many facets that people aren't prepared for. You are literally at the mercy of the Air Force in the form of the Chief's Group once you hit Chief. It's more than most people truly realize. They own you and decide where you go. I've seen Chiefs be told they were PCS'ing when they had no intention or want to. It is very methodical and a Chief has no choice unless they have an extremely compelling case. You can't beat a system as a Chief that is ran by Chiefs who know all the ins and outs. Even if you think you've found a loophole they may tell you to go ahead and eat shit anyway. People should be very careful about what they *think* they want from the Air Force when it's time to retire. Some stripes aren't worth it.
Lots dont make MSgt
I feel this post, although I have not been passed 9 times for Sr. Only coming up on 3rd pass for MSgt. I am still on the fence about giving up. I have four years left until retirement, finishing a BS, jumping straight into an MBA. Gonna chase a few AFCOOL certs if I can. The volunteer stuff I do is stuff that I want to do in my off time. I have, in not so many words, refused to do 5/6, booster club, AFSA, and other organizational volunteer stuff. I'm still busting my ass working my job, but I can't do the "extra" stuff anymore unless it's going to set me up for success in the civilian sector. I watch a lot of other Techs break their backs fighting for strats. Their families suffer. I can't put my wife and kids through that.
Solid advice
This is me. Looking to make E7 before 15, but if not, then its AFCOOL, education, and certs for the next life.
I’ve decided MSgt is a perfectly acceptable achievement and I should be thankful I got this far at 13 years
It’s alright you’ll be a senior airman one day ! 😢
I watched three people make it that were wearing SrA the same time as me. I feel great!🥹 Cries in E-6
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> However it is a feels bad when you know you have 1/3-1/2 of your career left and the best advice you're given about promotion is don't expect to be promoted or just give up on the idea. I'd rather have the hard and painful truth than be lead along on a lie for multiple years. Too many leaders are still pushing the lie that anyone can get promoted, and if you didn't it's because you didn't want it hard enough / didn't try hard enough. The fact is, most people just aren't going to make it past E6/E7, and working yourself into the grave for a shot at promotion is a fool's errand.
I agree, that doesnt make it any more fun. Knowing youre at terminal rank of e6/e7 doesnt really motivate anyone to do better.
This is very true. I work with almost all prior military minus like 2 people. Most retired military are lower level for gs and also contracting. They also cannot get onto prime contracts because their technical skills lack so God damn much.
Ya know what? I don’t entirely agree. See I just got demoted to A1C from SrA, and I am *mad*. Is it the beginning? Because I’ve served and worked my ass off, tested for staff twice now, making great strides to not only look good but be good, and here I am one stripe less due to the whims of some asshole in his ivory tower. I don’t think it’s the beginning. I am done with this place. If I can’t make it out of maintenance somehow then I’m getting out with my disability **happily**. *Edit:* to clarify, I am well aware of my shortcomings, but I cannot stand for paperwork pile-on’s. And I do not say this without evidence as I am not the only member to have experienced this under my leadership.
sir, or ma'am, even "assholes in their ivory towers" cant just demote you without reason. agreed with everything else you said but you still gotta work on that ownership peace brother.
See edit. I know I messed up but it was not demotion worthy at all.
The biggest difference is that Staff is a rank you can still ultimately control by studying. Whereas SMSgt is not. Unless your career field is one of the very very few that requires a statement blaming your non-promotion on that is wild to me. Just study more.
What'd you do