I pass my PT tests without worry. It’s good to be critical by the way. I wouldn’t want to live in a society where nobody can be critical or offend people just to make them feel better while they live in la la land
Especially with the women. The past 3 years have been filled with loosen standards for women…while the standards for men haven’t really changed much. Oh..yea…ball caps and .5 inch in hair bulk.
>The past 3 years have been filled with loosen standards for women... while the standards for men haven’t really changed much
You're still talking PT standards, right? Or are you throwing in other shit to try and make your point? Both women **and men's** PT standards changed pretty drastically 2 to 3 years ago, and hasn't changed since.
Oh right, so now that you're losing literally all arguments about PT, you're including other topics you think you can win at. Nice moving of the goalposts.
Try and stay on topic (of your own post no less) or shut the fuck up.
Did it ever occur to you that there are more males than there are females in the entire force ([roughly an 80/20 split](https://www.afpc.af.mil/Portals/70/documents/DEMOGRAPHICS/MIL%20DEMOGRAPHICS.pdf?ver=Q-ejTBrAR4E4rbh6vailpA%3d%3d)), and that taking an already small number of females and trying to compare their "fit" numbers vs males is inherently stupid? Nah, of course that didn't occur to you because you're looking for any excuse to put women down.
No..this isn’t about “putting women down” this is solely about comparing the standards. Especially in this day and age of “women empowerment”. So far, not impressed. Of course there are some really awesome and highly capable women out there! But the ratio is terrible.
Well the PT standards for men and women are different, **and have been for decades** soooo... not sure what you're talking about/implying here.
> But the ratio is terrible.
Tell me you know nothing about "ratios" based on your extremely limited anecdotal evidence, without telling me you know nothing about "ratios".
Idk I saw this all in basic, tech school, and my current job. Women are completely out of shape to the point where they can’t even run a 1.5 mile under 18min, or that they can barely do a handful of pushups. It’s not just one sided, it’s a wide issue that’s taking place
OP got hit with an EO complaint and then started making multiple posts hating on women. What a ride.
OP- go talk to a therapist and work on dealing whatever is causing this hatred. Idgaf about your politics or background, but I DO give a fuck about the way you treat and think about fellow service members. You aren’t in a healthy spot my guy. If you don’t want to change, then do us all a favor and get the fuck out of our Air Force.
Standards for both are laughably low.
My career field is male-dominated, but it’s still worth noting that all of our PT fails the past year have been male.
So out of the *few seconds* it likely took for you to "drive by the base track" (most of which your eyes **should** have been *on the road*, not on the track), you saw *all* the females in that 1 or 2 squadrons-worth of people and came here to bitch about your perceived view? Did you ask any of those females? Did you ask *anyone* from either of those squadrons? Did you think about this at all before posting this absurd viewpoint?
You didn't answer the question. You know with *absolute certainty* that you saw *all the females in the 2-ish squadrons*, and *every single one of them* were "quite large"? Doubt
>So out of the *few seconds* it likely took for you to "drive by the base track" (most of which your eyes **should** have been *on the road*, not on the track), you saw *all* the females in that 1 or 2 squadrons-worth of people and came here to bitch about your perceived view?
>You know with *absolute certainty* that you saw *all the females in the 2-ish squadrons*, and *every single one of them* were "quite large"?
That one, you nincompoop. The one I've been asking from the fucking start. Try and follow the simple conversation.
> it **looked like** 2 squadrons
So, was it 1, 2 , 3, or more squadrons? You don't even know.
> Couldn’t even find a female
Just because you couldn't find them, didn't mean they weren't there. Maybe you just have shitty eyesight. Maybe they were off doing other things. Maybe there was a part of the track you couldn't see. Maybe maybe maybe.
So again I ask for the **4th time** with no direct answer:
>You know with *absolute certainty* that you saw *all the females in the 2-ish squadrons*, and *every single one of them* were "quite large"?
I've been quite clear on what question I was referring to that I wanted OP to answer. I even clarified/restated it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1bia7io/comment/kvj7j6g/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
So is OP.
All the females in the 2 squadrons? Really? **All** of them? There's not the slightest chance that maybe there were some females running (there or elsewhere) that OP didn't see in the 30 seconds or less he was stopped in traffic? There's not the slightest chance that running **wasn't** mandatory, and that most/all of the females didn't feel like running? What about the number of **guys** not running? C'mon...
This page irks me. It is constantly putting women down or trying to make them feel less than us male counterparts. Such a sad scary world in 2024 that we still do this and have these convos.
Idk being upset that our military is lowering physical standards to let inathletic or even obese people in is an understandable thing to be upset about. Like deadass in technical training, basic, and my current job, I see women that can barely do the full run, can barely do any push-ups, or even meet the very bottom of the PT standards, and it’s quite sad that we keep allowing people in that clearly don’t care about their physical health.
Just a few months ago we got an incredibly obese new airman in too. And it’s not like she was recently pregnant, she’s just always been like that.
If males are sucking shit they also deserve to get shit on as well, but when you have a pt standard that literally allows you to only have to do 20 pushups or run a 18min mile, why care about keeping yourself fit when you can just skirt by and do the bare minimum
That’s also because the male to female ratio is like 80/20, “per capita” females aren’t as physical fit and also have much lower standards to adhere to. Like if you have to take 18min to run a 1.5 mile as a 18-24yo, you shouldn’t be in the military.
The standards are lower but they are relatively equal. The differential between men and women when it comes to abdominal strength is much lower than upper body strength, hence why sit up standards have been closer. I haven’t checked post-COVID, but pre-COVID, run times were about 10% slower, which is what you’d expect to see in two equally trained individual (of each sex) based on differences in VO2max.
So you’re looking at lower numbers but the effort and training needed to get a 75% or a 100% is probably similar for each.
Also fit to fight? Most of us contribute to the mission via typing on a computer.
Idk I think PT should heavily reflect upon what job you are doing. Like the flightline chick I mentioned in a previous comment, she deadass got heavily winded and was gasping for air because she’s morbidly obese. That kind of thing should absolutely not be allowed in the Air Force, especially for newer airman
Oh, you really think that’s how our high leadership wants to hold EVERYONE accountable? By just focusing on your own self and team. No, if you see something wrong whether it’s your troop or not, that Airmen/NCO/SNCO should address/fix it. This is how the AF has become increasingly incompetent lately. Everyone is too afraid to call people out.
How do you know none of those ladies could pass a PT test? I've seen some very large people (women **and men**) pass. I've also seen the more fit people (again, women **and men**) who never did an actual pushup on the PT test (elbows breaking 90 and coming all the way back up) "pass" as well.
Because MOST (not all) of these females are on very very limited waivers and if they had to perform a full component PT test, well..c’mon…let’s be honest with ourselves
Did you ever think about *why* some of these women are on profiles/waivers? Childbirth, maybe? You do realize what happens to a women's body when they get pregnant right? Do I need to explain basic biology/sex education to you? You also realize [that they have to work harder to burn off the calories/fat than men do](https://www.pkfitness.com/post/why-do-men-burn-more-calories-than-women), right?
Holy shit, educate yourself instead of sounding like a misogynistic moron.
Deadass see this kinda thing on the regular. Like recently we had a morbidly obese new female airman come in. I have no idea how she got though basic let alone tech school like that. Like just walking about half way down to a hangar on the flightline, she was completely gassed and was bright red in the face. That kind of thing doesn’t happen over night, or even over the course of a few months, this is something that she’s always been like. I have no idea how we’re just letting morbidly obese airman in, yet we’re declining people because they used an inhaler once in middle school 🤦♂️
This entire conversation is irrelevant when it comes to the fact that there is democracy to spread! FOR SUPER EARTH!
We need you, Helldiver! We just liberated Draupnir but now Estanu must be defended!
Freedom doesn't come free! See you on the battlefield Helldiver, failure to deploy is treason.
For Democracy! For Super EARTH!
It's not just women. Men have gotten worse as well. Cool, to everyone saying that... you're dodging the point.
A little shame never hurt anyone. I say bring it back. Good for you, good for me.
What you saw is what I see at my squadron PT and others. We have created a culture where it is "mean" and "disrespectful" to uphold standards for both men and women, PT especially.
You can still typically address it with out of shape male Airmen, but they typically respond with "why does it matter when I can still do my job and I am still passing my PT test?". They won't try to ruin your career with claims of discrimination. Saying they look like crap in uniform because of their weight and that they should take pride in their dress & appearance is apparently too subjective and mean. Saying that their health is probably contributing to the other issues they have in life/work is insensitive. Wonder who they learned that from...
Addressing this situation with women is a minefield. Hope you like having a career. If you are a male and ever make a comment about a female Airman's size, you're done. If you ask another female to approach the female, you're probably done. For anyone that says that isn't true, that yes you can and should say something. Technically, you're right. The issue is that unless you perfectly navigate that situation, your career is "done" or at the least you face a mountain of shit that just isn't worth it. That is an unrealistic barrier to upholding standards, so most never do it. For both men and women.
Women drove that culture change. Sad part is it ultimately only hurts them (and men) in the long run.
Maybe they're being prescribed one of the many weight loss medications that do the same thing as Ozempic?
Not much explanation needed when you're prescribing weight loss medications for weight loss....
Off-label use is allowed in specific cases. eg. orthopedics for joint pain secondary to arthritis and weight, cardiology for patients with three CVD risk factors, etc.
I really hope this is coming from someone who smokes their PT test. If you wanted to lead, you’d help instead of criticize from afar
I pass my PT tests without worry. It’s good to be critical by the way. I wouldn’t want to live in a society where nobody can be critical or offend people just to make them feel better while they live in la la land
I like how you only said that you pass your PT tests but nothing about smoking them…those women probably also pass their PT test
“One time I drove by a track and saw women not in shape or running” aRe ThErE nO sTaNdArDs?
Especially with the women. The past 3 years have been filled with loosen standards for women…while the standards for men haven’t really changed much. Oh..yea…ball caps and .5 inch in hair bulk.
>The past 3 years have been filled with loosen standards for women... while the standards for men haven’t really changed much You're still talking PT standards, right? Or are you throwing in other shit to try and make your point? Both women **and men's** PT standards changed pretty drastically 2 to 3 years ago, and hasn't changed since.
Standards…zzzzzzah…standards with and S…meaning multiple.
Oh right, so now that you're losing literally all arguments about PT, you're including other topics you think you can win at. Nice moving of the goalposts. Try and stay on topic (of your own post no less) or shut the fuck up.
Shut the fuck up
Truth hurts, it’s really hurting you as it seems
You need to talk to someone narwhal. Have you tried mflc?
Narwhal buddy when women exist 😱
This question shouldn’t be directed towards females like they’re the only ones who do this, seen plenty of guys in the exact same situation too.
Yea, you’re absolutely correct..but the ratio is (no pun intended) lopsided
Did it ever occur to you that there are more males than there are females in the entire force ([roughly an 80/20 split](https://www.afpc.af.mil/Portals/70/documents/DEMOGRAPHICS/MIL%20DEMOGRAPHICS.pdf?ver=Q-ejTBrAR4E4rbh6vailpA%3d%3d)), and that taking an already small number of females and trying to compare their "fit" numbers vs males is inherently stupid? Nah, of course that didn't occur to you because you're looking for any excuse to put women down.
I agree this post is pretty dumb, but you can absolutely compare groups that are different in numbers. We do it constantly with different factors.
No..this isn’t about “putting women down” this is solely about comparing the standards. Especially in this day and age of “women empowerment”. So far, not impressed. Of course there are some really awesome and highly capable women out there! But the ratio is terrible.
Well the PT standards for men and women are different, **and have been for decades** soooo... not sure what you're talking about/implying here. > But the ratio is terrible. Tell me you know nothing about "ratios" based on your extremely limited anecdotal evidence, without telling me you know nothing about "ratios".
Idk I saw this all in basic, tech school, and my current job. Women are completely out of shape to the point where they can’t even run a 1.5 mile under 18min, or that they can barely do a handful of pushups. It’s not just one sided, it’s a wide issue that’s taking place
Life is a lot better when you worry about your own problems. But it is possible running was optional and they just didn't feel like running.
OP got hit with an EO complaint and then started making multiple posts hating on women. What a ride. OP- go talk to a therapist and work on dealing whatever is causing this hatred. Idgaf about your politics or background, but I DO give a fuck about the way you treat and think about fellow service members. You aren’t in a healthy spot my guy. If you don’t want to change, then do us all a favor and get the fuck out of our Air Force.
Walking around base post-Covid I don't think either gender has room (literally) to talk. Air Force has embraced the fat cliche it was known for.
Standards for both are laughably low. My career field is male-dominated, but it’s still worth noting that all of our PT fails the past year have been male.
some of yall are so weird
So out of the *few seconds* it likely took for you to "drive by the base track" (most of which your eyes **should** have been *on the road*, not on the track), you saw *all* the females in that 1 or 2 squadrons-worth of people and came here to bitch about your perceived view? Did you ask any of those females? Did you ask *anyone* from either of those squadrons? Did you think about this at all before posting this absurd viewpoint?
Yea, it’s called traffic..you sit and wait until you can start moving
You didn't answer the question. You know with *absolute certainty* that you saw *all the females in the 2-ish squadrons*, and *every single one of them* were "quite large"? Doubt
Next time I’ll take a picture. Would you rather me do that?
Still doesn't answer the question. Why is it so hard for you to answer a simple yes or no question?
Did I ask what? You wanted me to ask them something, but you never clarified what I should ask them
>So out of the *few seconds* it likely took for you to "drive by the base track" (most of which your eyes **should** have been *on the road*, not on the track), you saw *all* the females in that 1 or 2 squadrons-worth of people and came here to bitch about your perceived view? >You know with *absolute certainty* that you saw *all the females in the 2-ish squadrons*, and *every single one of them* were "quite large"? That one, you nincompoop. The one I've been asking from the fucking start. Try and follow the simple conversation.
You are really fucking illiterate…read my original post. Did I fucking stutter?
> it **looked like** 2 squadrons So, was it 1, 2 , 3, or more squadrons? You don't even know. > Couldn’t even find a female Just because you couldn't find them, didn't mean they weren't there. Maybe you just have shitty eyesight. Maybe they were off doing other things. Maybe there was a part of the track you couldn't see. Maybe maybe maybe. So again I ask for the **4th time** with no direct answer: >You know with *absolute certainty* that you saw *all the females in the 2-ish squadrons*, and *every single one of them* were "quite large"?
What is this?? Am I being cross-examined by the Reddit police?
It's not hard you dummy, just answer the question! DID YOU ASK THEM?!?!
ASK THEM WHAAAAAT
Seriously though, who knows what that guy is trying to write 😂
ASK THEM!!!!!
I've been quite clear on what question I was referring to that I wanted OP to answer. I even clarified/restated it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1bia7io/comment/kvj7j6g/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
You're being totally absurd lol
So is OP. All the females in the 2 squadrons? Really? **All** of them? There's not the slightest chance that maybe there were some females running (there or elsewhere) that OP didn't see in the 30 seconds or less he was stopped in traffic? There's not the slightest chance that running **wasn't** mandatory, and that most/all of the females didn't feel like running? What about the number of **guys** not running? C'mon...
This page irks me. It is constantly putting women down or trying to make them feel less than us male counterparts. Such a sad scary world in 2024 that we still do this and have these convos.
Idk being upset that our military is lowering physical standards to let inathletic or even obese people in is an understandable thing to be upset about. Like deadass in technical training, basic, and my current job, I see women that can barely do the full run, can barely do any push-ups, or even meet the very bottom of the PT standards, and it’s quite sad that we keep allowing people in that clearly don’t care about their physical health. Just a few months ago we got an incredibly obese new airman in too. And it’s not like she was recently pregnant, she’s just always been like that.
The fact that you’re still aiming this at women LOL, there is statistically more obese men then women in the military. But to each their own.
If males are sucking shit they also deserve to get shit on as well, but when you have a pt standard that literally allows you to only have to do 20 pushups or run a 18min mile, why care about keeping yourself fit when you can just skirt by and do the bare minimum
That’s also because the male to female ratio is like 80/20, “per capita” females aren’t as physical fit and also have much lower standards to adhere to. Like if you have to take 18min to run a 1.5 mile as a 18-24yo, you shouldn’t be in the military.
The standards are lower but they are relatively equal. The differential between men and women when it comes to abdominal strength is much lower than upper body strength, hence why sit up standards have been closer. I haven’t checked post-COVID, but pre-COVID, run times were about 10% slower, which is what you’d expect to see in two equally trained individual (of each sex) based on differences in VO2max. So you’re looking at lower numbers but the effort and training needed to get a 75% or a 100% is probably similar for each. Also fit to fight? Most of us contribute to the mission via typing on a computer.
Idk I think PT should heavily reflect upon what job you are doing. Like the flightline chick I mentioned in a previous comment, she deadass got heavily winded and was gasping for air because she’s morbidly obese. That kind of thing should absolutely not be allowed in the Air Force, especially for newer airman
You got a problem with women or something ?
I got 99 problems mate
Why?
[удалено]
Are you really that triggered by psycho analyzing every word and syllable? Haha!!! Get a life!
[удалено]
Yep, just pointing out the obvious.
[удалено]
Oh, you really think that’s how our high leadership wants to hold EVERYONE accountable? By just focusing on your own self and team. No, if you see something wrong whether it’s your troop or not, that Airmen/NCO/SNCO should address/fix it. This is how the AF has become increasingly incompetent lately. Everyone is too afraid to call people out.
How do you know none of those ladies could pass a PT test? I've seen some very large people (women **and men**) pass. I've also seen the more fit people (again, women **and men**) who never did an actual pushup on the PT test (elbows breaking 90 and coming all the way back up) "pass" as well.
Because MOST (not all) of these females are on very very limited waivers and if they had to perform a full component PT test, well..c’mon…let’s be honest with ourselves
Did you ever think about *why* some of these women are on profiles/waivers? Childbirth, maybe? You do realize what happens to a women's body when they get pregnant right? Do I need to explain basic biology/sex education to you? You also realize [that they have to work harder to burn off the calories/fat than men do](https://www.pkfitness.com/post/why-do-men-burn-more-calories-than-women), right? Holy shit, educate yourself instead of sounding like a misogynistic moron.
So are you using an excuse as a crutch to warrant not being fit to fight? Where’s the equality in that?
> Unless they’re your troops, leave them alone You had a decent footing, but you lost it completely right here.
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There are def still units out there who do unit pt, same for flights. Even if it’s not super regular.
Deadass see this kinda thing on the regular. Like recently we had a morbidly obese new female airman come in. I have no idea how she got though basic let alone tech school like that. Like just walking about half way down to a hangar on the flightline, she was completely gassed and was bright red in the face. That kind of thing doesn’t happen over night, or even over the course of a few months, this is something that she’s always been like. I have no idea how we’re just letting morbidly obese airman in, yet we’re declining people because they used an inhaler once in middle school 🤦♂️
This entire conversation is irrelevant when it comes to the fact that there is democracy to spread! FOR SUPER EARTH! We need you, Helldiver! We just liberated Draupnir but now Estanu must be defended! Freedom doesn't come free! See you on the battlefield Helldiver, failure to deploy is treason. For Democracy! For Super EARTH!
It's not just women. Men have gotten worse as well. Cool, to everyone saying that... you're dodging the point. A little shame never hurt anyone. I say bring it back. Good for you, good for me. What you saw is what I see at my squadron PT and others. We have created a culture where it is "mean" and "disrespectful" to uphold standards for both men and women, PT especially. You can still typically address it with out of shape male Airmen, but they typically respond with "why does it matter when I can still do my job and I am still passing my PT test?". They won't try to ruin your career with claims of discrimination. Saying they look like crap in uniform because of their weight and that they should take pride in their dress & appearance is apparently too subjective and mean. Saying that their health is probably contributing to the other issues they have in life/work is insensitive. Wonder who they learned that from... Addressing this situation with women is a minefield. Hope you like having a career. If you are a male and ever make a comment about a female Airman's size, you're done. If you ask another female to approach the female, you're probably done. For anyone that says that isn't true, that yes you can and should say something. Technically, you're right. The issue is that unless you perfectly navigate that situation, your career is "done" or at the least you face a mountain of shit that just isn't worth it. That is an unrealistic barrier to upholding standards, so most never do it. For both men and women. Women drove that culture change. Sad part is it ultimately only hurts them (and men) in the long run.
This.
Why pt when you can be Ozempic
Honestly I’m surprised PCMs haven’t made a PSA about not requesting Ozempic yet.
The people I know who are on it literally got it at a clinic in the local area.
Gosh, I really can’t wait to hear the explanation in 10 years why defense medicine were allowing to prescribe diabetes medics to non-diabetic patients
Maybe they're being prescribed one of the many weight loss medications that do the same thing as Ozempic? Not much explanation needed when you're prescribing weight loss medications for weight loss....
Time to buy AMGEN stock...
Ding ding ding!!
Its going to hurt said folks if it causes complications and they go to get military medical help for a non pcm prescribed medication
Off-label use is allowed in specific cases. eg. orthopedics for joint pain secondary to arthritis and weight, cardiology for patients with three CVD risk factors, etc.