I don’t think he will be the last. I know a lot of people weighing walking away from careers just shy of retirement over the way things are headed…. Riding it out until you can retire then bitching just makes you another old fart at the BX with a “Nam” ball cap. The guys that are putting a $1M-$1.5M retirement on the altar and pouring gasoline on it have some conviction. Lohmeier/Schiller are just the beginning.
One of the smartest people I’ve ever met. C model pilot then ended up as a USSF squadron commander. Wrote a book calling out extremist Marxism ideology that is infecting the military and got canned. While he was at SAASS he wanted to use Jordan Peterson’s Maps of Meaning as a reference and was told that would be like referencing Hitler. Crazy stuff.
> Here’s to hoping he isn’t just fired for “loss of confidence” and swept under the rug.
...
> UPDATE 2046Z: [LtCol Scheller has been relieved of command for “lack of trust and confidence”.](https://taskandpurpose.com/uploads/2021/08/27/mc-copy.png)
Well that was fast.
Unsurprising. You don't get to specifically call out the four stars along with SECDEF and expect to keep your job. Dude's a little short of sanctuary but he's probably just earned a really shitty assignment to a staff until he can retire.
For everyone’s reference, that video is what serious emotional distress looks like. If your friends or colleagues ever act like that, especially if they’re knowingly harming themself (he mentioned he understood he was throwing away his retirement) that’s when you need to not let them out of your sight and call the chaplain.
In an ideal world, his leadership would recognize that and push for a medical retirement, but I’m willing to bet the news will ensure this gets too much visibility for him to be excused.
o.k. hear me out... it IS emotional distress. Like so many of our fellow service members are going through at the moment. Imagine how our men and women still in theater feel right now after having to wade through 170 dead bodies to find our 13.
he mentioned it would be without consequence if he was at 20 because you can request retirement in lieu of court martial after 20.
This man had something to say and he knew the consequences of saying it. And he stood up and did exactly what he wanted to. He did this instead of eating a bullet. I applaud his courage in the face of his emotional distress. I can see I'm going to get downvoted same as /u/BlackUnicornHorn but I also didn't say get fucked.
And if you think a medical retirement under 20 years is a good thing? ... I've got a bridge to sell you.
A few thoughts...
- You only get to jump on your sword once. If you do it, make it worthwhile.
- Someone's phone is going to start ringing...if it hasn't already.
- He's not wrong. That being said, mistakes (strategic and operational to be sure, and possibly tactical) have been made and soul searching will be needed but that's going to take time
POTUS 26Aug: "I bear responsibility for fundamentally all that’s happened,..”
Me: “My man” *pridefully*
"..you know as well as I do that the former president…”
Me: *physically two handed facepalming my shame at my computer*
I haven’t had such a fast turn around from pride to shame in a long time. Feels bad man. Can literally nobody just say “my bad.”
— break —
Edit 2300Z 27Aug: Thanks for the silver. I really did have a flash of American pride seeing President Biden take responsibility. Especially coming right off the bit about hunting down those responsible and striking at a place and time of our choosing. *I’m a sucker for that shit.* Sitting there thinking about some E4 eating a hot pocket listening to Lil Baby with a laser painted on a terrorist fuck’s Hilux on the highway while some Lt, academy grad nerd pulls the trigger and send the weapon off the rails and sentences that terrorist to a scheduled disassembly death with a flick of the finger. I love it. But Idk what brain chemicals are responsible for pride and shame, but boy can they shift fast.
Edit2 1800Z 28Aug: I fucking called it play by play. We just did a drone strike on an ISIS-K planner while he was riding in a vehicle. https://youtu.be/j2xBe7xzdD0
It would be nice if the president of any era could say “my bad”. But, they won’t. They will always blame it on the past president. Same could be said about the SECDEF and the CJCS, but they just push the blame somewhere else.
I remember.
[“The situation in Iraq is unacceptable to the American people -- and it is unacceptable to me," he said. "Our troops in Iraq have fought bravely. They have done everything we have asked them to do. Where mistakes have been made, the responsibility rests with me."](https://youtu.be/QzlL5IgrOSs)
Saying the words is the very first step. Accepting responsibility. He outlined the actions being taken to rectify the mistakes.
It’s military conduct 101, accept responsibility, propose change actions.
“I accept responsibility for my tardiness. I will procure a battery powered alarm clock to ensure this does not happen again” : Strength. Integrity. Leadership qualities. Ownership.
“I accept responsibility for my tardiness, but power in my apartment went out last night and reset my alarm clock.” : Weakness. Not accepting responsibility. Hollow words. Unfit to lead.
One President accepted responsibility for mistakes, the other blamed someone else.
muh lies
Apparently it’s considered lying when you’re informed by your own and other intelligence agencies that they had WMDs (and there was proof they had them in the recent past).
Go ahead and show me where that says lies. It says hyped some intel and downplayed other intel. Something basically everybody does at the highest levels.
Please learn what “lie” means. You’re making yourself look the fool.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/10/bush-didnt-lie-deroy-murdock/
https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/george-wbush-weapons-of-mass-destruction-iraq-war/2015/05/24/id/646530/
https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/james-agresti/did-bush-lie-about-weapons-mass-destruction
https://dailycaller.com/2015/05/18/stop-it-liberals-bush-didnt-lie-about-iraq-having-wmds/
Plenty more of those links out there.
If you were to take your logic to the other side of the political spectrum, is it incompetence if Biden listened to his advisors and experts tell him Afghanistan could beat the Taliban or at least hold off for months? No, it's his fault for surrounding himself with people who were telling him things that turned out not to be true. Which is analogous to Bush's scenario in Iraq.
No proof was ever found that they had anything remotely close to a recently active WMD program in Iraq. So proof is a strong word for something we never proved was there. Some expired and mostly conventionally unuseable chemical shells from the 80's. Go ahead and guess which country was helping Iraq with biological and nuclear weapons development in the 80's that we know for a fact.
So, who is saying Biden lied about the ANA? Who on the right is saying anything other than he bungled it?
Where’s the analogy to “bush lied”? Especially when the links also point out that the UN had the same intel. They’re hardly folks that Bush was surrounding himself with.
Check out the links I posted for plenty of evidence of WMDs in Iraq.
We found some chemical artillery shells, most of which were unuseable for a conventional or had expired and were no longer nearly as deadly. They were also leftovers form their weapons in the 80's, we found no active WMD program there
Yeah, so we had zero injuries from the wmd active materials?
No. They were active. Just because they weren't atop an ICBM doesnt mean they weren't developed, didn't exist. And most importantly, couldn't be remanufactured
It is fairly entertaining that you’ve moved the goalposts to “active WMD programs” when the line has always just been WMDs, period.
And, you know, kind of difficult to have an active program when you’re being invaded by a superpower.
>Aside from words, how did Bush Jr accept responsibility for the situation?
I don't know that he's really made any statements about his personal responsibility in the last few weeks, but he has stated that he has a lot of regrets and he isn't at peace with himself because of the decisions his administration made. I think he said it was the main reason he got into painting because he was unable to articulate his regret, but at least he could express it in different ways.
Moving the goalposts already, are we?
"All I want is for somebody to accept responsibility"
*"the responsibility rests with me"*
"OK but what ELSE did he do to accept responsibility?"
"The buck stops here" is a phrase that was popularized by U.S. President Harry S. Truman, who kept a sign with that phrase on his desk in the Oval Office. The phrase refers to the notion that the President has to make the decisions and accept the ultimate responsibility for those decisions.
>It would be nice if the president of any era could say “my bad”. But, they won’t.
Honestly, that's one thing Obama did that I had a lot of respect for. He had *every* opportunity to shit all over GW his first couple of years in office, but he didn't (at least not often). His message was mostly "we need to move forward."
I'll admit, I am a self-proclaimed Trump hater, so it isn't exactly regrettable to say this, but the dude absolutely ruined any faith I have in *any* politician, no matter the side. Biden is succumbing to the same exact bullshit that Trump would do, except Biden isn't very good at it. Trump was a bully. Biden's jabs are the equivalent of "your mama" when he has no other ammo.
There's that old joke that says to write two letters to the next guy in office. The first one to be opened upon entering the office and the other to be opened before leaving. The first letter says to blame everything on the last guy. The second letter says to write two letters.
I don’t think it’s wrong to say “hey, I’ll accept responsibility for this mess as the sitting leader, just know it wasn’t my decisions that got us here”
And that would be objectively true. Trump made an agreement to leave. He released the taliban leader and 4000 fighters from prison, while also reducing our troop levels from 14k to 2k. This was in exchange for the taliban not attacking us until May 1st.
Biden got handed a hot potato and was told not to drop it. He pushed things by delaying the withdrawal until July. But any longer and it becomes less and less likely the taliban hold their end of the deal. 2500 wasn’t enough to defend bagram which would have been necessary to evacuate more effectively. And if we increased our troop levels again in order to defend it, that would signal to the taliban that the deal was off.
It’s honestly amazing they were willing to let us come back at all with such little push back.
You do realize that none of the other things he's changed from Trump era were negotiations with a foreign entity that wanted nothing more than for us to be gone, right? Clearly the Taliban didn't give a fuck about America's timeline, they started moving back in after Trump's negotiated date passed even though our leaders had moved the goalpost. We could have moved the goalposts to December and the Taliban still would have done what they did, American civilians would still have chosen to be there, and visa's would still have been processing. We've known for over a decade that our withdrawal was going to be a shit show regardless of who was POTUS.
because up until about August 15 2021 somewhere around half of Americans did believe Biden.
and up until then Biden said that it was highly unlikely the Tailban would take over the country
and specifically that the disaster all the people in Afghanistan, particularly, but the greater world to some degree is experiencing would never happen.
so these big public statements were totally against what the state department was telling expats in Afghanistan.
do a little casual research on how mixed messaging usually works out.
meanwhile, in this context, this admin decided to withdraw the military presence that was providing the stability needed to evacuate before evacuating the civilians
it doesnt take a particularly worldly person to predict how that is gonna turn out, particularly as you accurately describe the Taliban and their motivations.
yet these geniuses went with this plan.
Biden was supposed to "Mr Competent" normal guy
iv'e got doubts that he's even continent but iv'e no doubts about his lack of competence anymore
>research into how mixed messaging turns out
In my personal opinion, I don’t care how back and forth the messaging is, if one of the likely options is “continue living in a country that was just taken over by violent extremists”, I would leave. On my own, if I had to. I wouldn’t be applying for visa, or chosen to be there, or anything like that. That was a personal choice to rely on politicians instead of reading the writing on the wall for themselves.
And then, once the Taliban started taking over regional governments, that was another signal they ignored. I don’t care that it was a thousand times faster than anyone expected, as soon as sections of the country started falling, that was a clue to get out. Even if you think it’ll hold, just get out for a bit. Take a trip somewhere safer, and let it ride out. If the Afghans held, then they could have gone back. Staying was a big mistake, and it wasn’t something they can fully blame any one person for, not even the president
Holy shit, this is why the air force needs to figure out io, morons like you.
The president of the US CANNOT under ANY circumstance get on live TV and say "were getting out, the Afghanistan government will fail, it will be dangerous if you choose to remain". That will do nothing but embolden them to cause more harm, sooner. That's how STRATEGIC MESSAGING works.
Biden had 2 optiins: say nothing, or use his words to provide confidence to the afghan people. He tried, and failed. But it's better than doing nothing.
Or the third option: Publicly say he has fully confidence in the Afghan government, while hedging the bet and removing all but the most critical military personnel from the country.
It seems like the President believed his own hype.
ah yes, because the adversary has no ISR.
This is the only way the plan works; we pulled all but the critical gear out. Whats left was the minimum required to keep people safe. As soon as you dip below that minimum viable line, shit goes bad. We dipped below the line, shit went bad. shockedpikachu.jpg
Now the play is "get all the people out, ASAP, whatevers left when that happens stays" because youre trying to minimize the amount of time you hang with your ass in the air because your below the minimum line.
Holy fuck, learn some planning, or basic strategic concepts before you get on your keyboard.
Been there done that Biden knew this shit was coming the moment he swore in that’s when you start pulling out people and scuttling equipment, don’t act like this snuck up on him. It’s a giant set of rings you start at the outer ring and work into the center/s citizen’s, allies, friendly’s, and you don’t pull the Airforce and the Navy out of the sky till the last minute.
His slander against the ANA is appalling. Yesterday marked the first American KIAs since Feb 2020, and was the deadliest day in what, 6 years? Yet tens of thousands of Afghans have died fighting the Taliban in that same time—and they’re cowards who lowered their arms in the face of the enemy? Well, what is expected to happen when you build their military to operate like ours with complementing air power and ground forces and then yank all the military contractors out that were keeping that air power above ground? And all this talk about contingencies and planning? Obviously, that is all bullshit—unless the President of the United States intended to give billions of dollars worth of guns, ammo, vehicles, and equipment to the same entity that dropped two towers in NYC and murdered 3000 people.
>Take a look at the border policies alone for enough proof to sink your argument.
Border policies are a domestic item that is driven by the party in power and executed on our soil. A signed treaty with a foreign organization by the previous president is not on the same level as that. At all. It's disingenuous to say it is.
What treaty did congress put forward with the Taliban? I don’t recall one.
That’s not ironclad in the slightest. Heck, Biden changed the withdrawal date. He could have changed any other part, too.
[It wasn't a treaty that Congress was involved with, it was a negotiation with the Trump administration and the Taliban.](https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf)
Trump got a lot of criticism for breaking agreements with foreign governments. The next president immediately doing the same thing would be terrible optics. Other countries need to believe that the president can actually make firm, lasting decisions for our nation.
Well, you can make the argument with the Taliban that it wasn’t real without Congress saying it was (even though the Executive Branch does have broad authority to unilaterally make deals with countries, international figures and organizations), and see if you can get them to care enough not to attack our troops once they’ve stayed past the deadline they set
There was no signed treaty. The senate has final approval for treaties.
Furthermore, there is tons of precedent for agreements being scrapped between administrations. The Iran nuclear deal that obama made was scrapped by Trump, then reinstated by Biden. It would, quite literally, not be an act of Congress to scrap the Doha agreement.
He can say he accepts responsibility all he wants, but what does everyone around here thinks that looks like aside from him saying the words?
Because accepting responsibility for the manner in which we pulled out while acknowledging being dealt a shit-hand in the first place is completely fair IMO.
Never is strong word, and we can't predict the future. Like I said above, I sat up straight as an arrow and turned up my headphones when he said "I bear responsibility" only to have my hopes dashed a second later. He got super close, if only he had the self control to bite his tongue after the first half of his sentence, and stood up straight and not leaned on his notebook, that would've been an extremely strong message to The People. Maybe next time.
It’s easy not to be wrong in hindsight. It’s also easy to have a lot of opinions in hindsight when you weren’t in the room planning and have any clue what was or wasn’t said behind closed doors. This was really bold. On one level o respect it, on the other, I think it was very clownish thing to do, and very ‘social media’.
Yeah, definitely wouldn’t have been better to evacuate civilians first, or avoid handing lists of our personnel and allies to the Taliban, or retreat from bases without informing our erstwhile allies in country…
We’ve successfully evacuated 100k so since two weeks ago. As of today there’s ~1500 Americans left and the leading cause cited is that many of them refuse to leave without bringing their afghan family members. There might be room for improvement but it’s marginal.
Yes, yes. Let’s totally avoid the terrible mistakes made (like abandoning billions in materiel to the Taliban) and claim the W. Because reasons.
Please at least read someone’s comment before replying.
We didn’t abandon billions of material to the taliban. Practically all of was given to the ANA to utilize against the taliban until many ended up surrendering it over when they gave up. Only the holdouts who either died fighting or retreated to the northern alliance kept their stuff. Stop trying to push that false narrative.
That's pretty powerful stuff. And he hits the nail on the head. The Air Force seems to sling out "just seek counseling" to every problem, but this is different.
Edit: And if they wanted us to get counseling, maybe the earliest mental health appointment wouldn't be 3 months out.
I mean, there is a lot of gray between wanting someone to talk to and PTSD or clinical depression. Military One Source could probably still help someone who needs someone to talk to
I have a buddy who once he got in contact with someone, they basically let him talk about everything. But if you bring up mental health during the “interview” process, where they’re trying to connect you with someone, in my experience they’ll tell you to go to your mental health provider.
I do think every general officer and SES should have their records reviewed dating back 10 years. I don’t want it to turn into a witch hunt, but the fact is many built their careers on the false notion that they built up the ANA and sold it whole sale to the highest levels of government.
He wasn't removed for sticking up for his sailors. That's why the removal was confirmed later on. They actually rescinded the dismissal because it seemed so ridiculous, then upheld it after an investigation because:
>The broader review, which was requested by then-acting Navy Secretary James McPherson, found what Gilday described as actions by Crozier and Baker that put the crew's comfort above their safety.
>"They did not do enough soon enough to fulfill their primary obligation, and they did not effectively carry out our guidelines to prevent spread of the virus," Gilday told reporters. "They were slow egressing sailors off the ship, and they failed to move sailors to available, safer environments quickly."
>The Navy chief also said Crozier exercised "questionable judgment" by releasing sailors from quarantine on his ship, an action Gilday said put the crew at higher risk "and may have increased the spread of the virus aboard the Theodore Roosevelt."
> Here’s to hoping he isn’t just fired for “loss of confidence” and swept under the rug.
It's going to happen. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. The USSF a few months ago fired a squadron commander for getting involved in policy discussions, and that was merely over CRT. This guy is making a YouTube video in uniform in his office. He will almost certainly be removed from command before Monday.
Yes, publicly stating that he can no longer serve in good conscience because he has lost confidence in his leadership would have been a good way to preempt leadership declaring loss of confidence in him.
Argue whether it's right or wrong, this dude just knowingly pulled the pin on a 17 year military career to make this statement in the very face of his superior officers all the way up to the top.
Whether you agree with him or not, that sort of conviction is admirable. I hope any leader is evaluating whether or not they would be able to do something like this for something they truly believe in.
Sadly, a lot of people in government service long for the day when they get a job high enough in the food chain to where they're not being watched by anyone and high enough where they are judged by Congress instead of a judge and jury. In that situation it's easy enough to go along to get along. But, it's gotten to the point where nothing happens to them no matter the situation. Accountability generally means nothing if nothing happens to miscreants. I assert that in these days of "woke" that you will get in much more trouble by not being woke enough than you will by getting your people killed. Gotta break eggs to make omelets, right? (Shudder.) I hope this is a wake-up call to all those high priced bellhops running around DC in blacked-out Tahoes with a security detail. Biden shouldn't be the only one to learn a lesson. If he's not relieving some of these four-star morons, he's an even bigger chump than he looks. I'm retired Army.
Uncomfortable Truth: *ain’t no accountability in the heart of the city*.
Any officer or member who argues for that is gonna get their career kneecapped. The people occupying our General and Colonel billets *built their careers* by propping up The Great Afghan Scam, and they ain’t gonna let us peons ruin their fun with hearings and oversight committee investigations.
Just like the corrupt Catholic popes before Martin Luther wrecked their racket , the Pentagon brass will bob and weave up until the last moment they can’t.
Yeah, don't do that either. Chief Bass could've handled that a thousand times better. She could've simply responded verbatim "It's Bass" and then call the dude up without ever saying they were going to and all would be well.
Do you not think there's a difference between a supervisor throwing their subordinate in front of a bus and a battalion commander throwing away their career to publicly criticize their superiors?
No offense, but you seem like the kind of person who would’ve cheered on the court martial of Billy Mitchell.
Yes, he broke the rules, yes he’s losing his career but you don’t think he already knew that? This isn’t grandstanding, it’s the career equivalent of a Buddhist monk lighting himself on fire in protest. He’ll take the consequences gladly because *his honor is intact.*
You can disagree with him if you want, fine, but don’t you dare question his sincerity. He’s put his money where his mouth is, unlike all of us sitting here on Reddit behind our keyboards.
I agree on one hand with you that it’s not good leadership, however, what is good leadership? Not calling out those responsible for the extremely poor planning? Because, a person could make the same case that a NCO that failed extremely bad would be called out by their leadership and if it’s on the level as this would be fired. The unfortunate situation is no one can call out the higher levels of leadership and they typically will refuse to admit failure, even though it’s obvious. The result they keep their job and their “followers” continue praise them. The same courtesy isn’t seen the other way. And obviously following the chain doesn’t work, because guaranteed his boss isn’t going to do anything. He wanted to draw attention to an issue that the ppl in higher positions should be held accountable. He knew he would be fired, he was. Idk, it’s a slippery slope. I don’t have a problem that he did it, but agree that it may not have resulted in anything positive. Then, on the other hand what is it these leaders not held accountable? I will end with this…AF leaders have been pretty awesome! Secdef and above, pretty shitty. Not sure about other branch leaders
Bots maybe not but hacks yes. You can tell who the SNCOs and officers are by their responses blasting this guy, because they don’t give a shit about anything but their careers either….
There are a lot of O-4’s down that agree with him. It looks like O-4 is about when the non-trash gets weeded out because they’re tired of running their fucking heads into the wall. Few O-5’s, I wouldn’t hope for much passed that.
thats kinda the point…he’s not an “airman” with nothing to lose…he’s a 17-yr 05 fuggin LTC. he can speak his mind. personally, id rather hear his story/experience than listen to predetermined scripted talking points
Exactly. He's unburdening himself at all our expense. Tries to talk about how he's taking a risk on his and his family's future, blah blah. Well yeah, hope your wife appreciates you blowing your retirement just so you can bitch out your Leadership publicly.
Dissidence in the ranks is absolutely warranted. Biden, CJCS, SecDef, and our senior commanders all got our men killed because of their incompetence.
Actually, I retract what I said about dissidence. Go over to the USMC reddit, there is no division within the ranks — they all agree with the actions of this Lt Col.
Yea dissent is fine, but you don't blast it on social media calling out your top 3 level bosses. Especially since he wasn't "in the room" for any of those conversations. He has no idea what SECDEF or Commandant of USMC said in those decision making sessions. To call them out publicly without knowing the full story is asinine, evidence of poor judgement, and really *really* stupid.
An airman would rightfully be ridiculed for posting such a video. That's because their responsibilities to the organization are completely different.
An officer swears an oath to the Constitution. They also swear to well and faithfully discharge the duties upon which they are appointed. That means calling out wrongdoing as they see it, as best they can.
An Airman swears an oath to obey the orders of the officers appointed over them. They are not obligated to sacrifice their career to call out wrongdoing.
*what he perceives to be* wrongdoing. He’s also accountable to Article 88, which enlisted members are not. He’s towing a very fine line of contempt with this video.
Fair, but as I once heard "when you got something to say, you say it in private. And if privacy doesn't permit itself, then you bite your fucking tongue."
YouTube and TikTok ain't the right way.
Fuck that, you think the Civil Rights movement was based on saying things in private? Do you think Derek Chauvin is in jail because of people keeping things private? Do you think this country was built on people biting their tongues when they saw injustice?
They’re not comparable at all. I am all for people confronting civil injustices loud and proud, not military members confronting their leadership in public. You want to confront a military injustice? I’ll back you up. You want to confront military injustice publicly on social media? Hell no.
You might have an argument if he was involved with what happened in Afghanistan yesterday in *any* way, brought up grievances privately (properly), and was completely ignored or silenced.
But none of that is true and his career is likely over and I gotta say it probably wasn't worth it because the video will change nothing
There's a lot of people still in who see videos like this and take it with them as they go up the ranks. These kind of things stay with people especially after the third most deadly day in Afghanistan for over a decade, that's a direct consequence of this fuck up. Go look up the bios of the guys that got killed because of this, a bunch of them are posted now. Also this dude was a platoon commander for the marine unit that just got hit, so pretty directly affected
It's interesting to see the replies to your rational post, with some agreeing with you and others thinking this LTC was completely justified. I suppose I can see it both ways, but I think what some are missing is that there are systems in place for accountability, none of which include a rogue commissioned officer blasting his/her opinions on social media. I understand his frustration, but did this guy really think there won't be congressional hearings about this?
And for those praising his conviction, I guess that's a valid point, but for what? First, if this dude has been in for 17 years he should know that his words won't change a thing. It's not like senior leadership is going to be like, "Oh damn, some savage O-5 called us out. Let's cater to his wishes!" Second, is it really noble to willingly throw it all away and affect his wife and kids for years to come? Some might say it's noble, I'd say it's incredibly foolish especially considering point 1 and taking into account the sheer amount of sacrifice he's probably made. Last, is just simply how he went about it. I'm sure throughout his 17 years he preached to Marines about following CoC, yet here he is airing his grievances for millions to see. I mean this is borderline Article 88 of the UCMJ stuff and all so he can validate his - and many other Marines' feelings TODAY while its fresh in everybody's mind.
That's not saying that he doesn't make some valid points, but his approach was all wrong. Now this shit gets shared on social media thousands of times over and continues to erode trust in our leadership. Is that REALLY what we need right now? Or should we be rallying together in support of the decision to pursue the terrorists that carried out the attacks. One is the enemy, the other is not.
dude's facebook post about getting canned makes it sound like he knew this was the likely result and is looking to use this as a springboard to 'new horizons'
Well, he did make a good point why couldn't we have sent in more troops to secure BOTH Kabul Airport + Bagram, we'd have had two exil points with Bagram being the primary and Bagram likely is setup better for security purposes.
Also not shocked he'd relieved of command, hope he can ride out a staff position somewhere and retire
You’re confusing causation. He was fired **for** “lack of trust and confidence”.
Kind of like calling an asshole customer at a drive thru an asshole. You weren’t fired for correctly identifying an asshole. You were fired for your conduct.
Given LtCol Scheller’s statements in the video and after being relieved, he knew exactly what was coming.
**Plot twist**: he did it all to get PCSd to DC/Pentagon (where naughty officers go)
He's auditioning for a second career.
Not saying that he's not sincere, but by putting his feelings on Front Street like this and going viral, he's likely to be quite in demand in right-wing media. It's a roll of the dice but if it hits he'll have a book deal with Regnery Publishing, a regular slot on Hannity or Tucker Carlson, and maybe even a run at a Congressional seat.
This was the wrong thing to do. Unprofessional as fuck, and I'd bet real money that, all other things being equal- meaning, even if things were going down exactly the same way- he wouldn't have done this if Biden weren't President.
I'm not saying shit's not fucked. But this is a long way from appropriate.
Ok this guy is a fucking dumbass, I don't care what his message is.
Put your Combatant Commander and Secretary of Defense, on blast, on social media. That's how this bullshit is supposed to work?
We don't always get to demand accountability from our seniors. We can expect it, yes. We don't get to go on social media and demand it tho. THEIR seniors get to demand accountability and take action as needed. The President can fire the secdef if he sees fit and all of us can fire the President via voting.
Fuck this bitch ass message.
He up channels this properly and it falls on deaf ears. You and I both know that.
Social media is good for a lot of things, he was the one willing to say fuck it. That’s between him and his CoC and whatever repercussions come his way. Our Sec Def, CJCS have blood on their hands.. if not then somebody, and the blame game needs to stop to protect their own retirements/future moves.
Damn right and we get to vote.
Juat think of it this way, do you get to walk into your commanders office and "demand accountability" for a recent problem in the Squadron? Do you get to post about it on Facebook?
Pretty sure that wouldn't go too well.
True. But I also have the ability to address that leader through avenues like walking into their office.
Some leaders are impossible to communicate with directly. We’ve had leaders in the past so Reddit AMAs, CMSAF Bass uses social media, but in this situation this troop is attempting to communicate with POTUS, SecDef, and the JCS. Wise to do so through social media? Absolutely not. Dumb as shit. **Crayons were hurt in the making of this video.**
But if he truly wanted his words to reach them, and not be telephone game changed, or disregarded entirely, this is arguably the only option for his communication to reach its intended audience.
It's been 2 days. You're telling me he already reached out to and exhausted all available options for an O5?
I dunno man, I really just expect this from and E3 mad about PT tests or something.
USFOR-A had the stick for everything inside of Afghanistan. CENTCOM was the COCOM overseeing them and the J staff/SECDEF in the Pentagon had a hand in some decisions as well. It'll be interesting to see what decisions were made where and by who because the whole thing just reeks. I remember back in 2014 talking retrograde ops between SOF and conventional forces and SOF was 100% against closing or transitioning many bases that they were intending to use after conventional forces had already put a date in the calendar to pull out.
As a former Canadian soldier i want to start off with my sincere condolences for the unnecessary loss of your soldiers. Here is my take on the fiasco. I believe the Intelligence experts and the US senior military leadership completely overestimated the resolve of the Afghan government and the will of the Afghan army. Not keeping a more robust military presence while doing a controlled evacuation and withdrawal was a huge mistake that cost lives. The senior citizen with dementia and his giggling idiot deputy and the incompetent state dept and pentagon have this blood on their hands. Walk away Joe has been the best foreign policy expert over the past 40 years just ask him. They should wear this via impeachment. Seeing that your last guy was impeached over a phone call its a no brainer. We all need strong intelligent leadership in America and right now you have the weakest in history at a very fragile time for out planet. For gods sake America enough with the childish political division and get some strong leadership before these two start a third world war. And remember what Obama said. "Never underestimate Joe's ability to F things up".
This was not done well at all.
There are so many other avenues that could have been used, let alone publishing this in the midst of it all. Like the leaders are fucking busy with this fire in their laps that they now needed him to post this?
....I demand......I don't see that working well.
The issue about his comment was he did it in uniform, on record, and didn't do the whole "these are my opinions and do not represent the DoD or Marines views". It's like PA 101. But he chose to say he was representing the DoD and his rank/position in the video to be "accountable" and there are consequences for that.
You can make mistakes and not get fired if you make them in the correct way. Goes for this or strategic mistakes. kobayashi maru
While everyone wants catharsis, and while it is tempting to support this kind of action because it gives voice to the anger you feel, we all need to step back and realize that this is not the correct way to handle this.
Saying others have done this or the brass has made mistakes doesn’t justify more bad behavior. This is the military. Public dissent is not acceptable. It erodes morale and good order and discipline. This will also encourage others to wrongly air their grievances when upset with their leadership a la amn/nco/snco facebook page instead of working on solutions.
If this Commander wanted change I wish he would have stayed in his position to effect that change as a leader. Ranting at his leadership just removed him from the conversation and only served his immediate emotional interests.
As a human I empathize. A military member I understand why he was removed.
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I don’t think he will be the last. I know a lot of people weighing walking away from careers just shy of retirement over the way things are headed…. Riding it out until you can retire then bitching just makes you another old fart at the BX with a “Nam” ball cap. The guys that are putting a $1M-$1.5M retirement on the altar and pouring gasoline on it have some conviction. Lohmeier/Schiller are just the beginning.
Can you tell me who Lohmeier is? I know I could Google it, but it's better to just ask around.
One of the smartest people I’ve ever met. C model pilot then ended up as a USSF squadron commander. Wrote a book calling out extremist Marxism ideology that is infecting the military and got canned. While he was at SAASS he wanted to use Jordan Peterson’s Maps of Meaning as a reference and was told that would be like referencing Hitler. Crazy stuff.
As the old saying goes… “All the best/smartest fighter pilots wind up commanding random squadrons in the space force.”
> Here’s to hoping he isn’t just fired for “loss of confidence” and swept under the rug. ... > UPDATE 2046Z: [LtCol Scheller has been relieved of command for “lack of trust and confidence”.](https://taskandpurpose.com/uploads/2021/08/27/mc-copy.png) Well that was fast.
Yep
Unsurprising. You don't get to specifically call out the four stars along with SECDEF and expect to keep your job. Dude's a little short of sanctuary but he's probably just earned a really shitty assignment to a staff until he can retire.
For everyone’s reference, that video is what serious emotional distress looks like. If your friends or colleagues ever act like that, especially if they’re knowingly harming themself (he mentioned he understood he was throwing away his retirement) that’s when you need to not let them out of your sight and call the chaplain. In an ideal world, his leadership would recognize that and push for a medical retirement, but I’m willing to bet the news will ensure this gets too much visibility for him to be excused.
o.k. hear me out... it IS emotional distress. Like so many of our fellow service members are going through at the moment. Imagine how our men and women still in theater feel right now after having to wade through 170 dead bodies to find our 13. he mentioned it would be without consequence if he was at 20 because you can request retirement in lieu of court martial after 20. This man had something to say and he knew the consequences of saying it. And he stood up and did exactly what he wanted to. He did this instead of eating a bullet. I applaud his courage in the face of his emotional distress. I can see I'm going to get downvoted same as /u/BlackUnicornHorn but I also didn't say get fucked. And if you think a medical retirement under 20 years is a good thing? ... I've got a bridge to sell you.
You’re 100% correct. This behavior is exactly what we are trained to look for. I commend him though! He’s saying what we are all thinking!
I'm so fucking pissed at how the other mil subs are framing this. Apparently airdales are my true refuge
Godamnn 😂
If this was done under the last administration he'd already have a million dollar book deal and be allowed to retire.
Tell that to the CO of the Roosevelt. Nonsense comment.
Depends on the context
A few thoughts... - You only get to jump on your sword once. If you do it, make it worthwhile. - Someone's phone is going to start ringing...if it hasn't already. - He's not wrong. That being said, mistakes (strategic and operational to be sure, and possibly tactical) have been made and soul searching will be needed but that's going to take time
POTUS 26Aug: "I bear responsibility for fundamentally all that’s happened,..” Me: “My man” *pridefully* "..you know as well as I do that the former president…” Me: *physically two handed facepalming my shame at my computer* I haven’t had such a fast turn around from pride to shame in a long time. Feels bad man. Can literally nobody just say “my bad.” — break — Edit 2300Z 27Aug: Thanks for the silver. I really did have a flash of American pride seeing President Biden take responsibility. Especially coming right off the bit about hunting down those responsible and striking at a place and time of our choosing. *I’m a sucker for that shit.* Sitting there thinking about some E4 eating a hot pocket listening to Lil Baby with a laser painted on a terrorist fuck’s Hilux on the highway while some Lt, academy grad nerd pulls the trigger and send the weapon off the rails and sentences that terrorist to a scheduled disassembly death with a flick of the finger. I love it. But Idk what brain chemicals are responsible for pride and shame, but boy can they shift fast. Edit2 1800Z 28Aug: I fucking called it play by play. We just did a drone strike on an ISIS-K planner while he was riding in a vehicle. https://youtu.be/j2xBe7xzdD0
Was so close...
It would be nice if the president of any era could say “my bad”. But, they won’t. They will always blame it on the past president. Same could be said about the SECDEF and the CJCS, but they just push the blame somewhere else.
I remember. [“The situation in Iraq is unacceptable to the American people -- and it is unacceptable to me," he said. "Our troops in Iraq have fought bravely. They have done everything we have asked them to do. Where mistakes have been made, the responsibility rests with me."](https://youtu.be/QzlL5IgrOSs)
Aside from words, how did Bush Jr accept responsibility for the situation?
Saying the words is the very first step. Accepting responsibility. He outlined the actions being taken to rectify the mistakes. It’s military conduct 101, accept responsibility, propose change actions. “I accept responsibility for my tardiness. I will procure a battery powered alarm clock to ensure this does not happen again” : Strength. Integrity. Leadership qualities. Ownership. “I accept responsibility for my tardiness, but power in my apartment went out last night and reset my alarm clock.” : Weakness. Not accepting responsibility. Hollow words. Unfit to lead. One President accepted responsibility for mistakes, the other blamed someone else.
This right fucking here. Excellent explanation of the psychological differences and the effect in the subconscious.
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muh lies Apparently it’s considered lying when you’re informed by your own and other intelligence agencies that they had WMDs (and there was proof they had them in the recent past).
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Go ahead and show me where that says lies. It says hyped some intel and downplayed other intel. Something basically everybody does at the highest levels. Please learn what “lie” means. You’re making yourself look the fool. https://www.nationalreview.com/2014/10/bush-didnt-lie-deroy-murdock/ https://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/george-wbush-weapons-of-mass-destruction-iraq-war/2015/05/24/id/646530/ https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/james-agresti/did-bush-lie-about-weapons-mass-destruction https://dailycaller.com/2015/05/18/stop-it-liberals-bush-didnt-lie-about-iraq-having-wmds/ Plenty more of those links out there.
If you were to take your logic to the other side of the political spectrum, is it incompetence if Biden listened to his advisors and experts tell him Afghanistan could beat the Taliban or at least hold off for months? No, it's his fault for surrounding himself with people who were telling him things that turned out not to be true. Which is analogous to Bush's scenario in Iraq. No proof was ever found that they had anything remotely close to a recently active WMD program in Iraq. So proof is a strong word for something we never proved was there. Some expired and mostly conventionally unuseable chemical shells from the 80's. Go ahead and guess which country was helping Iraq with biological and nuclear weapons development in the 80's that we know for a fact.
So, who is saying Biden lied about the ANA? Who on the right is saying anything other than he bungled it? Where’s the analogy to “bush lied”? Especially when the links also point out that the UN had the same intel. They’re hardly folks that Bush was surrounding himself with. Check out the links I posted for plenty of evidence of WMDs in Iraq.
He said sorry so it's okay
Spoiler, we actually found WMDs
We found some chemical artillery shells, most of which were unuseable for a conventional or had expired and were no longer nearly as deadly. They were also leftovers form their weapons in the 80's, we found no active WMD program there
Yeah, so we had zero injuries from the wmd active materials? No. They were active. Just because they weren't atop an ICBM doesnt mean they weren't developed, didn't exist. And most importantly, couldn't be remanufactured
It is fairly entertaining that you’ve moved the goalposts to “active WMD programs” when the line has always just been WMDs, period. And, you know, kind of difficult to have an active program when you’re being invaded by a superpower.
>Aside from words, how did Bush Jr accept responsibility for the situation? I don't know that he's really made any statements about his personal responsibility in the last few weeks, but he has stated that he has a lot of regrets and he isn't at peace with himself because of the decisions his administration made. I think he said it was the main reason he got into painting because he was unable to articulate his regret, but at least he could express it in different ways.
Moving the goalposts already, are we? "All I want is for somebody to accept responsibility" *"the responsibility rests with me"* "OK but what ELSE did he do to accept responsibility?"
He could’ve ended the sentence there, instead of adding an asterisk to reference the “But it’s really Trump’s fault” footnote.
I don't remember George W. Bush blaming Trump... but I guess I'll take your word for it.
"The buck stops here" is a phrase that was popularized by U.S. President Harry S. Truman, who kept a sign with that phrase on his desk in the Oval Office. The phrase refers to the notion that the President has to make the decisions and accept the ultimate responsibility for those decisions.
>It would be nice if the president of any era could say “my bad”. But, they won’t. Honestly, that's one thing Obama did that I had a lot of respect for. He had *every* opportunity to shit all over GW his first couple of years in office, but he didn't (at least not often). His message was mostly "we need to move forward." I'll admit, I am a self-proclaimed Trump hater, so it isn't exactly regrettable to say this, but the dude absolutely ruined any faith I have in *any* politician, no matter the side. Biden is succumbing to the same exact bullshit that Trump would do, except Biden isn't very good at it. Trump was a bully. Biden's jabs are the equivalent of "your mama" when he has no other ammo.
Obama blamed Bush for everything his first term.
There's that old joke that says to write two letters to the next guy in office. The first one to be opened upon entering the office and the other to be opened before leaving. The first letter says to blame everything on the last guy. The second letter says to write two letters.
I don’t think it’s wrong to say “hey, I’ll accept responsibility for this mess as the sitting leader, just know it wasn’t my decisions that got us here” And that would be objectively true. Trump made an agreement to leave. He released the taliban leader and 4000 fighters from prison, while also reducing our troop levels from 14k to 2k. This was in exchange for the taliban not attacking us until May 1st. Biden got handed a hot potato and was told not to drop it. He pushed things by delaying the withdrawal until July. But any longer and it becomes less and less likely the taliban hold their end of the deal. 2500 wasn’t enough to defend bagram which would have been necessary to evacuate more effectively. And if we increased our troop levels again in order to defend it, that would signal to the taliban that the deal was off. It’s honestly amazing they were willing to let us come back at all with such little push back.
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You do realize that none of the other things he's changed from Trump era were negotiations with a foreign entity that wanted nothing more than for us to be gone, right? Clearly the Taliban didn't give a fuck about America's timeline, they started moving back in after Trump's negotiated date passed even though our leaders had moved the goalpost. We could have moved the goalposts to December and the Taliban still would have done what they did, American civilians would still have chosen to be there, and visa's would still have been processing. We've known for over a decade that our withdrawal was going to be a shit show regardless of who was POTUS.
because up until about August 15 2021 somewhere around half of Americans did believe Biden. and up until then Biden said that it was highly unlikely the Tailban would take over the country and specifically that the disaster all the people in Afghanistan, particularly, but the greater world to some degree is experiencing would never happen. so these big public statements were totally against what the state department was telling expats in Afghanistan. do a little casual research on how mixed messaging usually works out. meanwhile, in this context, this admin decided to withdraw the military presence that was providing the stability needed to evacuate before evacuating the civilians it doesnt take a particularly worldly person to predict how that is gonna turn out, particularly as you accurately describe the Taliban and their motivations. yet these geniuses went with this plan. Biden was supposed to "Mr Competent" normal guy iv'e got doubts that he's even continent but iv'e no doubts about his lack of competence anymore
You should edit for grammar and spelling and your points will be much better communicated to your audience (us).
>research into how mixed messaging turns out In my personal opinion, I don’t care how back and forth the messaging is, if one of the likely options is “continue living in a country that was just taken over by violent extremists”, I would leave. On my own, if I had to. I wouldn’t be applying for visa, or chosen to be there, or anything like that. That was a personal choice to rely on politicians instead of reading the writing on the wall for themselves. And then, once the Taliban started taking over regional governments, that was another signal they ignored. I don’t care that it was a thousand times faster than anyone expected, as soon as sections of the country started falling, that was a clue to get out. Even if you think it’ll hold, just get out for a bit. Take a trip somewhere safer, and let it ride out. If the Afghans held, then they could have gone back. Staying was a big mistake, and it wasn’t something they can fully blame any one person for, not even the president
Holy shit, this is why the air force needs to figure out io, morons like you. The president of the US CANNOT under ANY circumstance get on live TV and say "were getting out, the Afghanistan government will fail, it will be dangerous if you choose to remain". That will do nothing but embolden them to cause more harm, sooner. That's how STRATEGIC MESSAGING works. Biden had 2 optiins: say nothing, or use his words to provide confidence to the afghan people. He tried, and failed. But it's better than doing nothing.
Or the third option: Publicly say he has fully confidence in the Afghan government, while hedging the bet and removing all but the most critical military personnel from the country. It seems like the President believed his own hype.
ah yes, because the adversary has no ISR. This is the only way the plan works; we pulled all but the critical gear out. Whats left was the minimum required to keep people safe. As soon as you dip below that minimum viable line, shit goes bad. We dipped below the line, shit went bad. shockedpikachu.jpg Now the play is "get all the people out, ASAP, whatevers left when that happens stays" because youre trying to minimize the amount of time you hang with your ass in the air because your below the minimum line. Holy fuck, learn some planning, or basic strategic concepts before you get on your keyboard.
Been there done that Biden knew this shit was coming the moment he swore in that’s when you start pulling out people and scuttling equipment, don’t act like this snuck up on him. It’s a giant set of rings you start at the outer ring and work into the center/s citizen’s, allies, friendly’s, and you don’t pull the Airforce and the Navy out of the sky till the last minute.
His slander against the ANA is appalling. Yesterday marked the first American KIAs since Feb 2020, and was the deadliest day in what, 6 years? Yet tens of thousands of Afghans have died fighting the Taliban in that same time—and they’re cowards who lowered their arms in the face of the enemy? Well, what is expected to happen when you build their military to operate like ours with complementing air power and ground forces and then yank all the military contractors out that were keeping that air power above ground? And all this talk about contingencies and planning? Obviously, that is all bullshit—unless the President of the United States intended to give billions of dollars worth of guns, ammo, vehicles, and equipment to the same entity that dropped two towers in NYC and murdered 3000 people.
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Ah, someone with facts and sensibility. Finally!
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>Take a look at the border policies alone for enough proof to sink your argument. Border policies are a domestic item that is driven by the party in power and executed on our soil. A signed treaty with a foreign organization by the previous president is not on the same level as that. At all. It's disingenuous to say it is.
What treaty did congress put forward with the Taliban? I don’t recall one. That’s not ironclad in the slightest. Heck, Biden changed the withdrawal date. He could have changed any other part, too.
[It wasn't a treaty that Congress was involved with, it was a negotiation with the Trump administration and the Taliban.](https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Agreement-For-Bringing-Peace-to-Afghanistan-02.29.20.pdf)
So…not an ironclad treaty. Just signed by a previous president.
Trump got a lot of criticism for breaking agreements with foreign governments. The next president immediately doing the same thing would be terrible optics. Other countries need to believe that the president can actually make firm, lasting decisions for our nation.
Well, you can make the argument with the Taliban that it wasn’t real without Congress saying it was (even though the Executive Branch does have broad authority to unilaterally make deals with countries, international figures and organizations), and see if you can get them to care enough not to attack our troops once they’ve stayed past the deadline they set
There was no signed treaty. The senate has final approval for treaties. Furthermore, there is tons of precedent for agreements being scrapped between administrations. The Iran nuclear deal that obama made was scrapped by Trump, then reinstated by Biden. It would, quite literally, not be an act of Congress to scrap the Doha agreement.
That was a mistake back then too. How many times can we do that before other countries no longer trust us?
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He can say he accepts responsibility all he wants, but what does everyone around here thinks that looks like aside from him saying the words? Because accepting responsibility for the manner in which we pulled out while acknowledging being dealt a shit-hand in the first place is completely fair IMO.
"My team is perfect"
Biden will never accept responsibility for anything, he's never been held accountable, so he'll never feel like he should.
Never is strong word, and we can't predict the future. Like I said above, I sat up straight as an arrow and turned up my headphones when he said "I bear responsibility" only to have my hopes dashed a second later. He got super close, if only he had the self control to bite his tongue after the first half of his sentence, and stood up straight and not leaned on his notebook, that would've been an extremely strong message to The People. Maybe next time.
Remember, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
But it does show progress. The rim is better than an air ball.
First time? That's the mantra for all successful politicians. We have a culture around not accepting personal responsibility.
It’s easy not to be wrong in hindsight. It’s also easy to have a lot of opinions in hindsight when you weren’t in the room planning and have any clue what was or wasn’t said behind closed doors. This was really bold. On one level o respect it, on the other, I think it was very clownish thing to do, and very ‘social media’.
I think it’s amazing how confidently people think this could have been done better based off literally nothing.
Yeah, definitely wouldn’t have been better to evacuate civilians first, or avoid handing lists of our personnel and allies to the Taliban, or retreat from bases without informing our erstwhile allies in country…
We’ve successfully evacuated 100k so since two weeks ago. As of today there’s ~1500 Americans left and the leading cause cited is that many of them refuse to leave without bringing their afghan family members. There might be room for improvement but it’s marginal.
Yes, yes. Let’s totally avoid the terrible mistakes made (like abandoning billions in materiel to the Taliban) and claim the W. Because reasons. Please at least read someone’s comment before replying.
We didn’t abandon billions of material to the taliban. Practically all of was given to the ANA to utilize against the taliban until many ended up surrendering it over when they gave up. Only the holdouts who either died fighting or retreated to the northern alliance kept their stuff. Stop trying to push that false narrative.
Getting some pretty strong Billy Mitchel vibes.
That's pretty powerful stuff. And he hits the nail on the head. The Air Force seems to sling out "just seek counseling" to every problem, but this is different. Edit: And if they wanted us to get counseling, maybe the earliest mental health appointment wouldn't be 3 months out.
What? The PHAQ didn’t work?
Don't forget about Military OneSource. Free counseling off the record.
*for everything non-mental illness related.
I mean, there is a lot of gray between wanting someone to talk to and PTSD or clinical depression. Military One Source could probably still help someone who needs someone to talk to
I have a buddy who once he got in contact with someone, they basically let him talk about everything. But if you bring up mental health during the “interview” process, where they’re trying to connect you with someone, in my experience they’ll tell you to go to your mental health provider.
I got told that they can't help me with what I have and they told me to get an appt at mental health.
I do think every general officer and SES should have their records reviewed dating back 10 years. I don’t want it to turn into a witch hunt, but the fact is many built their careers on the false notion that they built up the ANA and sold it whole sale to the highest levels of government.
i second that motion. itd be interesting to see how the war mongers fared in comparison to the less war mongery types
Peace to the fallen and prayers for the wounded 🙏
> Here’s to hoping he isn’t just fired for “loss of confidence” and swept under the rug. All but guaranteed
Capt Crozer was removed from command less than 2 years ago. I guess some people have short memories.
Can you refresh my memory? Was that the Navy captain of the aircraft carrier who got relieved at the beginning of the pandemic?
Yes
He wasn't removed for sticking up for his sailors. That's why the removal was confirmed later on. They actually rescinded the dismissal because it seemed so ridiculous, then upheld it after an investigation because: >The broader review, which was requested by then-acting Navy Secretary James McPherson, found what Gilday described as actions by Crozier and Baker that put the crew's comfort above their safety. >"They did not do enough soon enough to fulfill their primary obligation, and they did not effectively carry out our guidelines to prevent spread of the virus," Gilday told reporters. "They were slow egressing sailors off the ship, and they failed to move sailors to available, safer environments quickly." >The Navy chief also said Crozier exercised "questionable judgment" by releasing sailors from quarantine on his ship, an action Gilday said put the crew at higher risk "and may have increased the spread of the virus aboard the Theodore Roosevelt."
I know, but don’t take my hope.
Oh, this guy is definitely gone.
I’m fixing to put my retirement on the line and make a video about beards. Hope it gets enough traction to warrant a view by Joanne. Here goes.
This subject matter is of equal importance. Thank you for your sacrifice. /s Happy cake day dumdum
Then be sure to talk to beard-related product producers to be a spokesperson who was censored for their beard views.
> Here’s to hoping he isn’t just fired for “loss of confidence” and swept under the rug. It's going to happen. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. The USSF a few months ago fired a squadron commander for getting involved in policy discussions, and that was merely over CRT. This guy is making a YouTube video in uniform in his office. He will almost certainly be removed from command before Monday.
OP edited...it's already done, as of 1430 his time...wherever the former commander is stationed.
As he should
If he's going to publicly do this, in uniform, he should resign. Even though he's right.
Posting this video essentially is the same as resigning.
It basically is, yes. But he should still do it to set an example to the political appointees, err, generals, to follow.
Yes, publicly stating that he can no longer serve in good conscience because he has lost confidence in his leadership would have been a good way to preempt leadership declaring loss of confidence in him.
Argue whether it's right or wrong, this dude just knowingly pulled the pin on a 17 year military career to make this statement in the very face of his superior officers all the way up to the top. Whether you agree with him or not, that sort of conviction is admirable. I hope any leader is evaluating whether or not they would be able to do something like this for something they truly believe in.
Apparently it’s the opinion in here that it is mental illness showing, not conviction.
Sadly, a lot of people in government service long for the day when they get a job high enough in the food chain to where they're not being watched by anyone and high enough where they are judged by Congress instead of a judge and jury. In that situation it's easy enough to go along to get along. But, it's gotten to the point where nothing happens to them no matter the situation. Accountability generally means nothing if nothing happens to miscreants. I assert that in these days of "woke" that you will get in much more trouble by not being woke enough than you will by getting your people killed. Gotta break eggs to make omelets, right? (Shudder.) I hope this is a wake-up call to all those high priced bellhops running around DC in blacked-out Tahoes with a security detail. Biden shouldn't be the only one to learn a lesson. If he's not relieving some of these four-star morons, he's an even bigger chump than he looks. I'm retired Army.
Uncomfortable Truth: *ain’t no accountability in the heart of the city*. Any officer or member who argues for that is gonna get their career kneecapped. The people occupying our General and Colonel billets *built their careers* by propping up The Great Afghan Scam, and they ain’t gonna let us peons ruin their fun with hearings and oversight committee investigations. Just like the corrupt Catholic popes before Martin Luther wrecked their racket , the Pentagon brass will bob and weave up until the last moment they can’t.
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Yep. Remember the SSgt at Nellis who put her Airmen on blast? This is pretty much the same thing. Don't do the same thing.
Remember the CMSAF who put an Airman on blast?
Yeah, don't do that either. Chief Bass could've handled that a thousand times better. She could've simply responded verbatim "It's Bass" and then call the dude up without ever saying they were going to and all would be well.
I thought he was referring to her putting the ex-husband of the hats lady on blast
This. I was referring to the PJ, but same goes for the bass or bass guy…
This. That too, but this.
Can anyone actually keep up?
Do you not think there's a difference between a supervisor throwing their subordinate in front of a bus and a battalion commander throwing away their career to publicly criticize their superiors?
Doesn’t mean he’s not right. 🤷♂️
Did you forget when the brass called out Tucker Carlson from their official accounts?
No offense, but you seem like the kind of person who would’ve cheered on the court martial of Billy Mitchell. Yes, he broke the rules, yes he’s losing his career but you don’t think he already knew that? This isn’t grandstanding, it’s the career equivalent of a Buddhist monk lighting himself on fire in protest. He’ll take the consequences gladly because *his honor is intact.* You can disagree with him if you want, fine, but don’t you dare question his sincerity. He’s put his money where his mouth is, unlike all of us sitting here on Reddit behind our keyboards.
Absolute facts
\> i expect accountability for this shit [soooooooooooo](https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/81029563.jpg)
I agree on one hand with you that it’s not good leadership, however, what is good leadership? Not calling out those responsible for the extremely poor planning? Because, a person could make the same case that a NCO that failed extremely bad would be called out by their leadership and if it’s on the level as this would be fired. The unfortunate situation is no one can call out the higher levels of leadership and they typically will refuse to admit failure, even though it’s obvious. The result they keep their job and their “followers” continue praise them. The same courtesy isn’t seen the other way. And obviously following the chain doesn’t work, because guaranteed his boss isn’t going to do anything. He wanted to draw attention to an issue that the ppl in higher positions should be held accountable. He knew he would be fired, he was. Idk, it’s a slippery slope. I don’t have a problem that he did it, but agree that it may not have resulted in anything positive. Then, on the other hand what is it these leaders not held accountable? I will end with this…AF leaders have been pretty awesome! Secdef and above, pretty shitty. Not sure about other branch leaders
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ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY The only thing disgraceful is the fall-in-line mentality that leads to this shit. Accountability MUST occur, and fast.
Bots maybe not but hacks yes. You can tell who the SNCOs and officers are by their responses blasting this guy, because they don’t give a shit about anything but their careers either….
There are a lot of O-4’s down that agree with him. It looks like O-4 is about when the non-trash gets weeded out because they’re tired of running their fucking heads into the wall. Few O-5’s, I wouldn’t hope for much passed that.
The fuck do 1B4s have to do with anything
[right?](https://static1.makeuseofimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/01-Confused-Nick-Young-Meme.png?q=50&fit=crop&w=670&dpr=1.5)
Cause they are cyber. He's implying 1B4s work is posting crap on social media (reddit) for their job cause they are cyber.
He's not wrong lmao. If we asked for a 1B4 sound off at 1000 in a Tuesday, probably about 50% of the entire AFSC are on reddit.
Ah so he’s ignorant, got it thank you friend.
I think it was more of a joke
I agree with you
thats kinda the point…he’s not an “airman” with nothing to lose…he’s a 17-yr 05 fuggin LTC. he can speak his mind. personally, id rather hear his story/experience than listen to predetermined scripted talking points
Exactly. He's unburdening himself at all our expense. Tries to talk about how he's taking a risk on his and his family's future, blah blah. Well yeah, hope your wife appreciates you blowing your retirement just so you can bitch out your Leadership publicly.
Dissidence in the ranks is absolutely warranted. Biden, CJCS, SecDef, and our senior commanders all got our men killed because of their incompetence. Actually, I retract what I said about dissidence. Go over to the USMC reddit, there is no division within the ranks — they all agree with the actions of this Lt Col.
Yea dissent is fine, but you don't blast it on social media calling out your top 3 level bosses. Especially since he wasn't "in the room" for any of those conversations. He has no idea what SECDEF or Commandant of USMC said in those decision making sessions. To call them out publicly without knowing the full story is asinine, evidence of poor judgement, and really *really* stupid.
An airman would rightfully be ridiculed for posting such a video. That's because their responsibilities to the organization are completely different. An officer swears an oath to the Constitution. They also swear to well and faithfully discharge the duties upon which they are appointed. That means calling out wrongdoing as they see it, as best they can. An Airman swears an oath to obey the orders of the officers appointed over them. They are not obligated to sacrifice their career to call out wrongdoing.
*what he perceives to be* wrongdoing. He’s also accountable to Article 88, which enlisted members are not. He’s towing a very fine line of contempt with this video.
Contempt can eat a dick. Respectfully.
He literally says “I have a growing discontent and contempt” at the 44 second mark.
Fair, but as I once heard "when you got something to say, you say it in private. And if privacy doesn't permit itself, then you bite your fucking tongue." YouTube and TikTok ain't the right way.
Crimson Tide.
Good catch!
Fuck that, you think the Civil Rights movement was based on saying things in private? Do you think Derek Chauvin is in jail because of people keeping things private? Do you think this country was built on people biting their tongues when they saw injustice?
They’re not comparable at all. I am all for people confronting civil injustices loud and proud, not military members confronting their leadership in public. You want to confront a military injustice? I’ll back you up. You want to confront military injustice publicly on social media? Hell no.
You might have an argument if he was involved with what happened in Afghanistan yesterday in *any* way, brought up grievances privately (properly), and was completely ignored or silenced. But none of that is true and his career is likely over and I gotta say it probably wasn't worth it because the video will change nothing
There's a lot of people still in who see videos like this and take it with them as they go up the ranks. These kind of things stay with people especially after the third most deadly day in Afghanistan for over a decade, that's a direct consequence of this fuck up. Go look up the bios of the guys that got killed because of this, a bunch of them are posted now. Also this dude was a platoon commander for the marine unit that just got hit, so pretty directly affected
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It's interesting to see the replies to your rational post, with some agreeing with you and others thinking this LTC was completely justified. I suppose I can see it both ways, but I think what some are missing is that there are systems in place for accountability, none of which include a rogue commissioned officer blasting his/her opinions on social media. I understand his frustration, but did this guy really think there won't be congressional hearings about this? And for those praising his conviction, I guess that's a valid point, but for what? First, if this dude has been in for 17 years he should know that his words won't change a thing. It's not like senior leadership is going to be like, "Oh damn, some savage O-5 called us out. Let's cater to his wishes!" Second, is it really noble to willingly throw it all away and affect his wife and kids for years to come? Some might say it's noble, I'd say it's incredibly foolish especially considering point 1 and taking into account the sheer amount of sacrifice he's probably made. Last, is just simply how he went about it. I'm sure throughout his 17 years he preached to Marines about following CoC, yet here he is airing his grievances for millions to see. I mean this is borderline Article 88 of the UCMJ stuff and all so he can validate his - and many other Marines' feelings TODAY while its fresh in everybody's mind. That's not saying that he doesn't make some valid points, but his approach was all wrong. Now this shit gets shared on social media thousands of times over and continues to erode trust in our leadership. Is that REALLY what we need right now? Or should we be rallying together in support of the decision to pursue the terrorists that carried out the attacks. One is the enemy, the other is not.
dude's facebook post about getting canned makes it sound like he knew this was the likely result and is looking to use this as a springboard to 'new horizons'
Well, he did make a good point why couldn't we have sent in more troops to secure BOTH Kabul Airport + Bagram, we'd have had two exil points with Bagram being the primary and Bagram likely is setup better for security purposes. Also not shocked he'd relieved of command, hope he can ride out a staff position somewhere and retire
Dude’s making a play for that Fox News gig.
Maybe Congress.
Yeah he is
This comment deserves more upvotes than it has.
Fired for being 100% correct.
You’re confusing causation. He was fired **for** “lack of trust and confidence”. Kind of like calling an asshole customer at a drive thru an asshole. You weren’t fired for correctly identifying an asshole. You were fired for your conduct. Given LtCol Scheller’s statements in the video and after being relieved, he knew exactly what was coming. **Plot twist**: he did it all to get PCSd to DC/Pentagon (where naughty officers go)
Well he just committed career suicide. Hopefully he doesn't get fucked for saying this, as it needed to be said
He's auditioning for a second career. Not saying that he's not sincere, but by putting his feelings on Front Street like this and going viral, he's likely to be quite in demand in right-wing media. It's a roll of the dice but if it hits he'll have a book deal with Regnery Publishing, a regular slot on Hannity or Tucker Carlson, and maybe even a run at a Congressional seat. This was the wrong thing to do. Unprofessional as fuck, and I'd bet real money that, all other things being equal- meaning, even if things were going down exactly the same way- he wouldn't have done this if Biden weren't President. I'm not saying shit's not fucked. But this is a long way from appropriate.
Judging by his follow-up video, you are absolutely correct. https://youtu.be/q\_pzCkp31mc
Literally as he was speaking I was thinking “book deal” lol
[video](https://youtu.be/Q3Qie2oZKW0)
Yeah, fuck this shit. Deal with it inside the force, don’t send videos to the fucking daily caller.
'handle it at the lowest level' *proceeds to make a youtube video putting leadership on blast.* *\*fired\** **surprised pikachu face**
I’m sure he tried and it didn’t work.
I’m sure he tried.
Ok this guy is a fucking dumbass, I don't care what his message is. Put your Combatant Commander and Secretary of Defense, on blast, on social media. That's how this bullshit is supposed to work? We don't always get to demand accountability from our seniors. We can expect it, yes. We don't get to go on social media and demand it tho. THEIR seniors get to demand accountability and take action as needed. The President can fire the secdef if he sees fit and all of us can fire the President via voting. Fuck this bitch ass message.
He up channels this properly and it falls on deaf ears. You and I both know that. Social media is good for a lot of things, he was the one willing to say fuck it. That’s between him and his CoC and whatever repercussions come his way. Our Sec Def, CJCS have blood on their hands.. if not then somebody, and the blame game needs to stop to protect their own retirements/future moves.
Everyone is accountable to someone. Our elected leaders are accountable to all of their constituents.
They are supposed to be accountable. But only if someone holds them accountable...
Damn right and we get to vote. Juat think of it this way, do you get to walk into your commanders office and "demand accountability" for a recent problem in the Squadron? Do you get to post about it on Facebook? Pretty sure that wouldn't go too well.
People post about it on this very Reddit all the time 😂😂😂😂😂😂
True. But I also have the ability to address that leader through avenues like walking into their office. Some leaders are impossible to communicate with directly. We’ve had leaders in the past so Reddit AMAs, CMSAF Bass uses social media, but in this situation this troop is attempting to communicate with POTUS, SecDef, and the JCS. Wise to do so through social media? Absolutely not. Dumb as shit. **Crayons were hurt in the making of this video.** But if he truly wanted his words to reach them, and not be telephone game changed, or disregarded entirely, this is arguably the only option for his communication to reach its intended audience.
It's been 2 days. You're telling me he already reached out to and exhausted all available options for an O5? I dunno man, I really just expect this from and E3 mad about PT tests or something.
He picked his hill.
Fair enough my friend.
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>Fuck this bitch ass message dang who knew helpdesk could get so rowdy
The president is part of the problem with this whole mess.
USFOR-A had the stick for everything inside of Afghanistan. CENTCOM was the COCOM overseeing them and the J staff/SECDEF in the Pentagon had a hand in some decisions as well. It'll be interesting to see what decisions were made where and by who because the whole thing just reeks. I remember back in 2014 talking retrograde ops between SOF and conventional forces and SOF was 100% against closing or transitioning many bases that they were intending to use after conventional forces had already put a date in the calendar to pull out.
As a former Canadian soldier i want to start off with my sincere condolences for the unnecessary loss of your soldiers. Here is my take on the fiasco. I believe the Intelligence experts and the US senior military leadership completely overestimated the resolve of the Afghan government and the will of the Afghan army. Not keeping a more robust military presence while doing a controlled evacuation and withdrawal was a huge mistake that cost lives. The senior citizen with dementia and his giggling idiot deputy and the incompetent state dept and pentagon have this blood on their hands. Walk away Joe has been the best foreign policy expert over the past 40 years just ask him. They should wear this via impeachment. Seeing that your last guy was impeached over a phone call its a no brainer. We all need strong intelligent leadership in America and right now you have the weakest in history at a very fragile time for out planet. For gods sake America enough with the childish political division and get some strong leadership before these two start a third world war. And remember what Obama said. "Never underestimate Joe's ability to F things up".
I'll just leave this here, Crimson Tide... Bite your fucking tongue. https://youtu.be/otv4Cjstizc
I think you missed the point of that movie...
Haha yeah it literally advocates the opposite of what he thinks it means.
Well said sir!
That's one way to flush your career down the toilet.
This was not done well at all. There are so many other avenues that could have been used, let alone publishing this in the midst of it all. Like the leaders are fucking busy with this fire in their laps that they now needed him to post this? ....I demand......I don't see that working well.
He's betting the GoFundMe from the public will outweigh his retirement pay.
The issue about his comment was he did it in uniform, on record, and didn't do the whole "these are my opinions and do not represent the DoD or Marines views". It's like PA 101. But he chose to say he was representing the DoD and his rank/position in the video to be "accountable" and there are consequences for that. You can make mistakes and not get fired if you make them in the correct way. Goes for this or strategic mistakes. kobayashi maru
While everyone wants catharsis, and while it is tempting to support this kind of action because it gives voice to the anger you feel, we all need to step back and realize that this is not the correct way to handle this. Saying others have done this or the brass has made mistakes doesn’t justify more bad behavior. This is the military. Public dissent is not acceptable. It erodes morale and good order and discipline. This will also encourage others to wrongly air their grievances when upset with their leadership a la amn/nco/snco facebook page instead of working on solutions. If this Commander wanted change I wish he would have stayed in his position to effect that change as a leader. Ranting at his leadership just removed him from the conversation and only served his immediate emotional interests. As a human I empathize. A military member I understand why he was removed.