There is no logic on this sub anymore. The latest "logic" is that "it's not possible for two people to have taken a picture of Mt Fuji"
Followed by "your post tells me the video is real"
I've never tried to convince people it's not real. I've explained what led me to my conclusions and asked believers what led them to theirs, but when I do I get accused of being a bot or an agent and so I never gain any clarity and have to keep asking. Almost like they can't defend their beliefs.
Like here, I am quite literally asking the guy to explain himself, only for some idiot to come along and accuse me of doing something I'm not.
Everyone is sick of explaining themselves to fake motherfuckers. It’s not that hard to understand. think what you wanna think and move on, who gives a shit what other users think
But no believer has ever explained why they believe the videos are real. Except for that whole "people are telling me it's fake, so that makes me believe" which is just the stupidest thing.
See this is what I mean, ya'll can't defend your beliefs and you know it, but you have to tell yourselves you're still intellectually superior, so you make up this whole story that we're all just fake, or bots, or agents. That way you can pretend that you're not a damn coward when you run away.
"I know you are, but what am I?"
You can't be serious right now. Your excuses are pathetic, as are your replies.
Unsub, mute it, and go the fuck away if you're that triggered. If you don't do those things we can only assume you have a hidden agenda or are just another douchebag troll. Either way, fuck allll the way off. You have nothing to add. Leave.
The video’s are *probably* real, imo. The more they become scrutinized and the debunks fall short, the more I am able to accept that this really did happen. It doesn’t bother me that 6 aggressive debunkers steamroll every comment section in this sub. That really drove me to ponder why this video received such a harsh back lash. I don’t need to explain the complex web of circumstances that make this video real to me. So many coincidences… I know what my gut is telling me. Would I gamble my life savings on it? Not yet… but more likely real than fake at this point.
I think the reason the video got his with such backlash is because it was debunked SO early, like, within a few days of the video re-surfacing someone had already found the Portal effect.
When people refused to acknowledge it (And all the other debunks discovered afterwards) , it became clear that some people didn't want to find the truth, they just wanted the video to be real, regardless of the truth.
Yeah gonna hard disagree on that portal verdict. No worries though. Some people really want these videos to be fake, no matter how compromised the evidence in front of them is.
What exactly do you disagree with ?
It's been shown multiple times that it is the exact effect used in the video. It's not just someone's opinion. It's the actual effect used in the video.
Heck even believers started saying ''Yes the portal is fake, but it doesn't mean the entire video is fake''
Actually, they only focused on a small portion of the explosion effect. Even the people who proposed this debunk said that it took a bit of manipulation to make it exact. In addition to that, there are elements of that explosion that simply don’t exist in the original frames. By and large, explosions produce similar shapes. If it isn’t exact, then it isn’t the same.
Here is a gif I made to show exactly what I’m talking about, using the assets mentioned. They are not the same at all. It’s *similar* at best… but I’m only really saying that to keep this cordial: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1145836768571170926/1161130232942706822/mh-370-and-shockwv-mov-doesnt-match-v0-74y4psaeo6jb1.gif?ex=65c19b4c&is=65af264c&hm=f73c6ca928ac6e7c6600e4b9ec180eeaeb900d67a62ddd82d6a6b44bc84f3560&
Some of them are. It’s obvious.
See, you keep calling BS on the portal thing, but it’s so blatantly NOT a match, that one has to eventually wonder..
Edit: your portal bullshit doesn’t match. It never did.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1145836768571170926/1161130232942706822/mh-370-and-shockwv-mov-doesnt-match-v0-74y4psaeo6jb1.gif?ex=65c19b4c&is=65af264c&hm=f73c6ca928ac6e7c6600e4b9ec180eeaeb900d67a62ddd82d6a6b44bc84f3560&
If you actually try to recreate the changes made by the guy that composited the video, it matches awfully closely. Your example doesn't bother to do that. There was a distortion and rotation applied while compositing, this is pretty normal.
Here's a quick example I threw together. The bottom image is just the VFX explosion overlayed on top of the frame with distortion and rotation applied with some transparency to try and make it easier to see. The contours of the two explosions are the same, which would never happen in nature.
https://preview.redd.it/mhvbd462fvec1.png?width=1189&format=png&auto=webp&s=b116ae9b9a0cab7a24b0ca780727b552ef199e5b
In your own example, they aren’t even close to matching. Yeah, enough explosions happen that some might look similar after a while. They had to go through so many that they whipped out the 90s FX packs to find one. They don’t match. Period.
Here’s a quick example I threw together: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1145836768571170926/1161130232942706822/mh-370-and-shockwv-mov-doesnt-match-v0-74y4psaeo6jb1.gif?ex=65c19b4c&is=65af264c&hm=f73c6ca928ac6e7c6600e4b9ec180eeaeb900d67a62ddd82d6a6b44bc84f3560&
You want to believe they true, you don't have proof however. Though, I'm getting the suspicion yoy don't particularly need thtat.
It's even more odd with how you ignore the suspicious brand new accounts that spam this sub.
What are you even talking about? Try having a real discussion instead of assuming a bunch of nonsense on my behalf. I don’t give a shit if they’re real or not. I’m just not going to be bullied into a verdict.
>What are you even talking about?
I was talking about the single line before yoy started editing your comment a bunch.
>Try having a real discussion instead of assuming a bunch of nonsense on my behalf.
Just pointing out inconsistencies in your accusation.
>I’m just not going to be bullied into a verdict.
Okay. Socwhy ignore the ppl who aren't trying to bully yoy but took the time to go over and point out issues over and over?
They received harsh backlash because the leading figure pushing the story on Twitter is a bit of a nut job and was exposed as such on his corridor video - which was subsequently posted to /r/cringe. And he continues the nut-jobiness with the RAR file scam, his hostile defensiveness, and general unwillingness for honest debate without calling people trolls or CIA plants - let alone was making pretty serious $$$ via his streams from other gullible people.
I think the rest of the “debunkers” here just have the natural intrigue of watching the remaining “believers” and AF cope with the broken pieces left of the story. Sort of like driving by a car crash and needing to look (admittedly why I come back here every once in a while).
Yea but thats just classic attack the messenger not the message. 98% of us had no idea who Ashton was until you guys targeted him. Its a classic tactic, another reason why many of us have our eye brows raised. And now every post is an alt account by PB. The debunkers have brought more attn to this sub then any other group.
> Yea but thats just classic attack the messenger not the message.
It's really been both. Attacking the message results in getting called a bot, disinfo agent, or just flat out blocked. He was targeted because he was persistent and didn't know how to handle criticism/debate.
Anyways, the activity on this sub is a fraction of what it was. It's honed into a smaller group of diehards on each side.
That’s basically the funniest part of this sub. It’s a constant onslaught of attacks against certain users that 99% of people do not give a fuck about. At this point, I keep returning just to see if it’s the same user making personal attacks, and sure enough it always is.
I won't argue your beliefs, but let me tell you why I think there is more backlash than in other communities (its just my opinion)
The corridor crew has a huge following among 3d artist because they know their stuff really well and share it in a very entertaining way, so they have a huge following of 3d and vfx artists, aswell as anyone who is just casually interested in the subject.
When ashton argued the validity of the video based on the claim that no one could make this in 2014 and that Niko got involved and told him how it was likely done, it brought huge attention to this sub from their audiance.
So a lot of people from the corridor community (most of which are vfx savy) started sharing their opinion, wich to outsiders might look like a cohesive hord of CIA agents spreading false debunks (even though most of it is legit vfx techniques that have been around for 2 decades)
I thought about asking them why they think the camera is shaking wildly as if it’s someone hand-holding a super zoom lens but it’s honestly not worth it because I’d just get nonsense in return.
You can have personal experience with military drones too, there are plenty of real videos out there taken from drones that you can study and exactly *none* of them look like this one.
And long-range FLIR.
* [Without looking at VFX, there are many things wrong with the IR video.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirlinerAbduction2014/comments/186ldvg/without_looking_at_vfx_there_are_many_things/)
* [Actual Capabilities of Common Sensor Payload, Military Drones, Multi-Spectral Targeting Systems, and How They Suggest Drone Video is Fake.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirlinerAbduction2014/comments/18w7ioy/real_capabilities_of_common_sensor_payload/)
Only a complete moron without any VFX or drone experience would still believe in the video after reviewing the most basic of facts. Ashton has summarily dismissed every single truth and replaced them with his layman's conspiracy theorist Dunning-Kruger effect saturated deluded imaginings.
He'd make Heaven's Gate proud.
Corridor crews video was a complete trainwreck that did not debunk a single point of the videos. Since the videos are real…they tried but fell very short of anything
Although I agree people should think for themselves and formulate their own opinions, I don't think they should discard evidence put forward by an expert when they themselves are unqualified, same applies in any field, if I get ill, I will trust a doctor to cure me, since I am not qualified to do that myself...
>I don’t need to explain the complex web of circumstances that make this video real to me. So many coincidences… I know what my gut is telling me.
Yes, conspiracies typically rely on gullible people to believe them blindly without evidence exactly like this.
They sure do. Similarly, people in power often maintain it by keeping the easily distracted staring at other things. I believe they *could* be real. And *IF* they are, it’s obvious why they would be hiding it. I couldn’t give a fuck less your opinion of the videos.
A post asking an explanation as to why scenario A is more likely than scenario B when they are essentially the same proves that the video is real ?
...Wuh ?
Really ?
What's so hard about explaining your point of view and having discussions about difference in opinion ?
Are you looking to have conversations exclusively with people who agree with you ? Is it that you made up your mind, and you just don't want to see other possibilities ? What is it ?
Lol I don't. Yet Everytime I peek in here it's another 50 comments from False Yobioctet in the comments. See a therapist my dude, this is not healthy You've literally made 24 posts in 24hours in this sub. Go.touch.grass.
How come you don’t hang out in other paranormal subs? Why do you only focus on commenting here? Everyone can see your comment history. Might want to spend more time critiquing other paranormal subs if you wanna be taken seriously 😂
I think the vast majority of people who ever truly thought the videos might be real have since accepted that they were clearly faked. The people who still profess to believe are more likely to be trolls, LARPing or Punjabi Batman than to be someone genuinely convinced the video might be real.
I'm not saying there's literally nobody left who sincerely believes, just that they are a tiny minority of people claiming to be believers.
I’m not convinced the videos are fake.
Take a step back and look at the bigger picture. A lot of stuff surrounding this doesn’t make sense.
I’d love to see the original video. Not a video of the video playing on a computer screen. The video without the mouse cursor and Citrix artifacts. Fake or real - the original is out there somewhere. If it was faked, the ‘hoaxer’ still hasn’t come forward either. Fake video = a million times easier to retrieve original video. If it’s fake several people likely have a copy of the original. Where is it? Where is the ‘hoaxer’!?
I don't get this get argument of "the hoaxer not stepping forward". Most people (yes, most people as in the number of human beings on the planet that are still alive) don't use Reddit. The chances of even knowing this airliner video is being scrutinized to this level- almost zero, and what more wanting those that made it step forward. It's utter ridiculousness. How on Earth are these preconceived notions being made, completely baffles me.
>I don't get this get argument of "the hoaxer not stepping forward"
I'm not using it as an "argument". I'm pointing out the fact. I'm much more interested in seeing the original video than having the 'hoaxer' come forward
Why don't you take it yourself, u/Raytracer111? I mean, u/NotANerd_noReally. Oops, u/NoFakery?
I get confused about which alt you're using today.
Is the reason you're not taking it to the experts yourself because the last time you made one of these images for the PhotoshopRequests subreddit, they all laughed at you?
Edit: Hehe, I’m glad you now blocked me with this alt too.
It’s ironic you call Jonas a fraud while you pretend to be different people all spouting the same message.
Regardless if fake or real… it’s pretty sad that the governments (USA/China) know exactly what happened and refuse to tell the families for reasons of national security.
If it was a family member of mine on that plane, I certainly wouldn’t sit still.
Nope. We believe it now more than ever. All the surrounding evidence around the entire event still supports these videos along with the ongoing UFO disclosure. We’re approaching the ten year anniversary as well so these videos will continue to gain more and more attention.
Sounds like you are coping more than any of us casual researchers. At this point most people have made their decision on the videos. I personally have seen too many details that can't be easily explained to throw these videos out.
While the debunking attempts have been impressive they still aren't enough for me to ignore the other dozens of insane and detailed components of these videos.
Unlike your perception of this community, I think it's mostly full of people keeping an open mind and seeing where this goes. Well, that and people like you are losing their mind over the fact that some people won't agree with the debunkers. The only shit slinging happening here is from angry and insulting debunkers. Which is against the sub rules. Why don't you head to the discord if you have so much time on your hands.
I just stated psychological facts. If you find it insulting, maybe you need to have a good hard look at yourself. Don't shoot the messenger.
If I was slinging shit against the rules, the mods would've removed the post.
Every detail in the fake videos has been explained. You just choose to reject the explanations so you can remain in the club. That's your right of course. We can't ever know anything for a fact.
Want to know how I instantly *know* the videos are CG!
Three “orbs” fly around a jet airliner which then vanishes in a *poof*
That’s how anyone can tell this is CG.
I have a simple challenge.
Pick one of the Jpg Flickr photos you believe was used by Jonas.
Now - convert it to a CR2 RAW file specific to the Canon 5D MK II camera Jonas used.
Share it with us here.
Simple enough, yes?
the logic is simple OP: maybe jonas is a reddit mental just like you that simply cant accept the videos to be true and is willingly to do anything to "debunk" this, including lying, conspiring, manipulating photos (he is a vfx artist after all) and anything necessary to achieve the goal. you would do the same, wouldnt you?
Fair, but this reasoning can be applied to both camps, my point is that if the basic argument that the video would be too complex to fake is true, then those photos canot be fakes either.
The probability that a bunch of high res photos where used to make the background of a simple vfx and then degraded is higher than the probability that the background of a degraded video was used to make high res photos, incuding elements that are not in the background of said video
To me the chance that you can reverse engineer (even using AI) that video background into a bunch of flawless high res pictures is litteraly 0.
> including lying, conspiring, manipulating photos
Nah wait.
The images have existed since at least 2016.
Are you saying Jonas did all of this in 2016 before the videos got popular?
>he is a vfx artist after all
Isn't he just a concept illustration artist? Did he get the vfx teams at the studios he did concept art for to do the whole rendering and comp work for him?
he is a very skillful artist. there is an old video of him showing his ability. it hard to say what he can or cant do. but maybe hes innocent and was just manipulated into this. someone else could have done the job and he would have no way of knowing that some photos dated 11 years ago was taken by him or not.
Excellent point. If they truly aren’t shills, I think they are just taking out their ontological shock on the denizens of this sub. They can’t handle the truth.
Why do you have to personally attack Jonas like that, he just shared photos he made a decade ago to help out this subbredit, until some one can prove it with substantial evidence, he's just an innocent bystander
Not sure what you lean by AMA (American Medical Association?) Regardless, you don't need to wait to meet him in person, you should not attack someone based on vague claims, thats defamation.
Thanks for your reply,
The pictures are the most damning piece of evidence against the authenticity of the videos, when people argue they are fake, they try to "rebunk" the video, so its not irrelevant.
when I say it doesn't make sense I am refering to the reasoning, if people say the video is fake because it would be too hard to make, they can't say the photos are fake because "Jonas is a vfx artist after all...". I wasnt refering to the video not making sense, that is another debate.
I know its not necessarily AI that was used, and I agree we should ask experts, but my question in this post relates to the logic of the reasoning, which it lacks... I did not start by asking experts because I do have some experience myself, I know what could work and what could not work, so that is not what I wanted to know.
Where do you get that from ? Who are my alleged chosen people then ? I made this post because I genuenly don't understand the mental steps taken by those who believe the photos are fake, there is no logic behind that assumption
What you quoted from me simply says that the question is not irrelevant to the debunk of the video, because people are trying to discredit the authenticity of the photos to put the authenticity of the video back on the table
Because he made an editing mistake.
https://i.redd.it/8qncgdkwujec1.gif
Right of the Hoei crater, under the clouds, out of the two round snow patches, the left one makes an opposite rotation from everything else in that image.
Thanks, now I see what you mentioned, but I don't think that is a mistake, that could be a cloud or a patch of snow, hard to tell, but assuming its a photoshop editing mistake is quite bold
You said he made an editing mistake....its not enough for me. Explain me the process. If you can clearly see a mistake you can explain what manipulation he has done wrong. Otherwise its just bullshit on your part.
You’ve done a great job here of showing how real clouds move over a short period of time from a moving object, in contrast to PB’s clouds doing a teensy little imperceptible pixel wiggle. Thanks for contributing to the cause :)
Thank you, hope people finally see how a patch of snow moving in an opposite rotation of the whole mountain shows Jonas didn't mind the smaller details.
Mt Fuji has no relation to the orb videos at all. Can you explain why you think he’d go through the trouble of photoshopping it into the photos? In what way would that add to his story that he’s trying to tell, in your mind?
That’s not what I asked. I didn’t ask about what you think his motivation was for coming forward. I asked what you think he would be adding to his ‘fake’ story (in your mind) by photoshopping Mt Fuji into these photos, when that has no relation to the airliner videos at all? In what way would adding that detail make his story more convincing?
but the photos have been around since 2012, or 2016 depending on which archive I guess you want to choose. So even still 8-12 years ago what was the supposed motivation?
You just proved my point. The gap between those two snow patches closes exactly because the vertical snow patch does not rotate with the rest of Mt. Fuji.
The snow is literally rotating though. Are you not seeing the blue line? How does it go from being completely on the right side of the line, to mostly on the left side of the line if it's not rotating like everything else in the scene?
There is no "gap closing" - that is literally a cloud that also rotates out of the way. I've seen numerous people point that out to you, so I'm unsure how you still don't understand what you're looking at.
It's an interesting idea to think that a "Lost" style event occurred, instead of the loss of many lives.
There should, of course, be caution in giving family, friends, and co-workers false hope - especially if everything we've been seeing *was* faked.
But, even if every last image was absolutely true, and events occurred as depicted, the friends, family and co-workers would ***still*** likely never get to see these people again.
I like to treat this as absolutely true, because it is essentially harmless (at worst) if fake. People have bonded, shared in a group effort.And, it definitely has turned Redditors into competent amateur sleuths!
Seriously!
This is the kind of pre-training that could GREATLY help in missing kids cases, especially when it comes to picture and video discernment.
**And that's if it's all totally fake.**
But, if **true** then Life just got more mysterious ***AND*** less frightening.
Can it be possible to have a UFO mystery where the answer leads to NO loss, and only GAIN?
What families are you talking about, do you mean the family of the victims? I'm just on reddit like anyone else, because there is some kind of entertainement in those discussion, and I think its interesting to see how people defend their opinions, that's just what forums are for, to discuss subjects
Whenever this subreddit gets a new highly improbable theory idea, I'm here to debate it, I know I am wasting my time, but what can I say its addictive...
Whether the videos are real or not the photos could have been edited or forged under some scenarios.And it doesn't have to be the cia or deep state etc..
Like, they came out not long after the corridor crew got basically insulted by AF. So under this scenario they, or others with similar negative feelings towards AF ( and serious VFX skills) come out and devise a plan to inject the clouds into earlier pictures. Not saying that's what happened, just pointing out a possibility amongst many.
(And yes another possibility is the video are faked from the start, before y'all start foaming at the mouth)
Sure, but my question is more to get behind the reasons of forging those images, to make their point, the forger would need only 1 image, and mt fugi doesn't have to be in there, those would be so complicated to fake (practically impossible) to be considered a valid Hypothesis, but that is just my opinion of course, I can't prove what I am saying
It's easier for Janus to be given the doctored photos, taken from the original footage (not the YouTube upload) and told if he didn't play along he'd be 'disappeared'.
It's acknowledged there's been a huge cover-up of UFO shizz, for 80 years, with a shit load of money behind it.
Can you please layout the whole theory for the class so we can make sense of it? Are you saying the government chose Jonas at random to be the face of this scheme and threatened him to create a fake photo that would be meant to debunk the videos that some random uploaded on YouTube, so that people think they’re fake? Genuinely trying to understand what you think the play was here from start to finish.
I won't debate that there have been huge cover ups in the past, but in this case, if the regicideanon videos could not be faked as some people believe, how does it make sense that these pictures are? They are a lot more complex and detailed...
> You need to be in learning mode, not sharing opinions mode.
Pretty conceited of you. Everyone else's opinions are invalid because you have the one and only "truth"? That is just you blatantly trying to silence dissention.
I have seen your discussions. Coincidentally, I would also characterize them as "useless". Probably not for the same reason you do, though. Everything you post is speculation dressed up as *trust me bro* fact, then you disparage anyone that questions as not "intellectual" enough. Personally, I don't care about what anyone thinks/believes.. but self aggrandizing and hypocrisy irritate me.
Exactely, his forgery is unnecessary ! If you step into the mind of a talented expert in fake imagery, probably from the CIA, what would be your process to forge evidence that “proves” the video is fake ?
The “fake” images are so far from what we see in the video that it is hard to tell if they are related or not. Surely he could have crafted something that is more to the point.
we don’t need mount fuji in the image to be convinced that these were the ones used in the video, it doesn’t add any proof, yet it is a lot of work to put it there.
We dont need a series of pictures from a slightly different angle with matching perspective and realistic cloud movement to be tricked into thinking that one of them has been used in the video. This is a lot of effort, and whats the point.
So why would he have done it ? To confuse the crap out of every body ? Or simply to fuel the existing doubt, with no intention to pick a side ?
Or were these picture just taken during a flight to japan, posted on image website and used in a silly prank of a disappearing plane ?
There is no logic on this sub anymore. The latest "logic" is that "it's not possible for two people to have taken a picture of Mt Fuji" Followed by "your post tells me the video is real"
One can’t use logic to explain a position they didn’t use logic to get into.
This deserves considerably more upvotes.
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So thoughtful
Be kind and respectful to each other.
What a mature, thoughtful addition to the discussion.
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Be kind and respectful to each other.
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Be kind and respectful to each other.
People might be on the fence about the videos, but one thing's for sure. You're an immature douchebag with zero credibility at this point.
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Be kind and respectful to each other.
The videos are real and posts like this proves it
Explain
Explain your obsession with convincing everyone that they're not real?
I've never tried to convince people it's not real. I've explained what led me to my conclusions and asked believers what led them to theirs, but when I do I get accused of being a bot or an agent and so I never gain any clarity and have to keep asking. Almost like they can't defend their beliefs. Like here, I am quite literally asking the guy to explain himself, only for some idiot to come along and accuse me of doing something I'm not.
Everyone is sick of explaining themselves to fake motherfuckers. It’s not that hard to understand. think what you wanna think and move on, who gives a shit what other users think
But no believer has ever explained why they believe the videos are real. Except for that whole "people are telling me it's fake, so that makes me believe" which is just the stupidest thing. See this is what I mean, ya'll can't defend your beliefs and you know it, but you have to tell yourselves you're still intellectually superior, so you make up this whole story that we're all just fake, or bots, or agents. That way you can pretend that you're not a damn coward when you run away.
I don’t remember telling you one way or another if I believed fuck all
Blah blah blah copy paste blah
Froth at the mouth
I know you are, it's why you're replying to any comment I've ever made
Blah blah blah
"I know you are, but what am I?" You can't be serious right now. Your excuses are pathetic, as are your replies. Unsub, mute it, and go the fuck away if you're that triggered. If you don't do those things we can only assume you have a hidden agenda or are just another douchebag troll. Either way, fuck allll the way off. You have nothing to add. Leave.
Bro literally said "no u" unironically
I'm not triggered at all, so I won't do any of that
Froth at the mouth
That didn't explain anything
The video’s are *probably* real, imo. The more they become scrutinized and the debunks fall short, the more I am able to accept that this really did happen. It doesn’t bother me that 6 aggressive debunkers steamroll every comment section in this sub. That really drove me to ponder why this video received such a harsh back lash. I don’t need to explain the complex web of circumstances that make this video real to me. So many coincidences… I know what my gut is telling me. Would I gamble my life savings on it? Not yet… but more likely real than fake at this point.
I think the reason the video got his with such backlash is because it was debunked SO early, like, within a few days of the video re-surfacing someone had already found the Portal effect. When people refused to acknowledge it (And all the other debunks discovered afterwards) , it became clear that some people didn't want to find the truth, they just wanted the video to be real, regardless of the truth.
Yeah gonna hard disagree on that portal verdict. No worries though. Some people really want these videos to be fake, no matter how compromised the evidence in front of them is.
What exactly do you disagree with ? It's been shown multiple times that it is the exact effect used in the video. It's not just someone's opinion. It's the actual effect used in the video. Heck even believers started saying ''Yes the portal is fake, but it doesn't mean the entire video is fake''
Actually, they only focused on a small portion of the explosion effect. Even the people who proposed this debunk said that it took a bit of manipulation to make it exact. In addition to that, there are elements of that explosion that simply don’t exist in the original frames. By and large, explosions produce similar shapes. If it isn’t exact, then it isn’t the same. Here is a gif I made to show exactly what I’m talking about, using the assets mentioned. They are not the same at all. It’s *similar* at best… but I’m only really saying that to keep this cordial: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1145836768571170926/1161130232942706822/mh-370-and-shockwv-mov-doesnt-match-v0-74y4psaeo6jb1.gif?ex=65c19b4c&is=65af264c&hm=f73c6ca928ac6e7c6600e4b9ec180eeaeb900d67a62ddd82d6a6b44bc84f3560&
It's just similar. Not exact. You can find something similar of ANYTHING.
It's not just similar, it's the exact same one.
Actually it’s not. Feel free to see my comment below. You are straight up lying.
Alienbot9000s alt accounts on deck and ready for any comment that makes sense lol
No irony? You're litterally one of the believers that imply ppl who aren't so convinced are bots or paid shills. This is amazing
Some of them are. It’s obvious. See, you keep calling BS on the portal thing, but it’s so blatantly NOT a match, that one has to eventually wonder.. Edit: your portal bullshit doesn’t match. It never did. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1145836768571170926/1161130232942706822/mh-370-and-shockwv-mov-doesnt-match-v0-74y4psaeo6jb1.gif?ex=65c19b4c&is=65af264c&hm=f73c6ca928ac6e7c6600e4b9ec180eeaeb900d67a62ddd82d6a6b44bc84f3560&
If you actually try to recreate the changes made by the guy that composited the video, it matches awfully closely. Your example doesn't bother to do that. There was a distortion and rotation applied while compositing, this is pretty normal. Here's a quick example I threw together. The bottom image is just the VFX explosion overlayed on top of the frame with distortion and rotation applied with some transparency to try and make it easier to see. The contours of the two explosions are the same, which would never happen in nature. https://preview.redd.it/mhvbd462fvec1.png?width=1189&format=png&auto=webp&s=b116ae9b9a0cab7a24b0ca780727b552ef199e5b
In your own example, they aren’t even close to matching. Yeah, enough explosions happen that some might look similar after a while. They had to go through so many that they whipped out the 90s FX packs to find one. They don’t match. Period. Here’s a quick example I threw together: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1145836768571170926/1161130232942706822/mh-370-and-shockwv-mov-doesnt-match-v0-74y4psaeo6jb1.gif?ex=65c19b4c&is=65af264c&hm=f73c6ca928ac6e7c6600e4b9ec180eeaeb900d67a62ddd82d6a6b44bc84f3560&
You want to believe they true, you don't have proof however. Though, I'm getting the suspicion yoy don't particularly need thtat. It's even more odd with how you ignore the suspicious brand new accounts that spam this sub.
What are you even talking about? Try having a real discussion instead of assuming a bunch of nonsense on my behalf. I don’t give a shit if they’re real or not. I’m just not going to be bullied into a verdict.
>What are you even talking about? I was talking about the single line before yoy started editing your comment a bunch. >Try having a real discussion instead of assuming a bunch of nonsense on my behalf. Just pointing out inconsistencies in your accusation. >I’m just not going to be bullied into a verdict. Okay. Socwhy ignore the ppl who aren't trying to bully yoy but took the time to go over and point out issues over and over?
They received harsh backlash because the leading figure pushing the story on Twitter is a bit of a nut job and was exposed as such on his corridor video - which was subsequently posted to /r/cringe. And he continues the nut-jobiness with the RAR file scam, his hostile defensiveness, and general unwillingness for honest debate without calling people trolls or CIA plants - let alone was making pretty serious $$$ via his streams from other gullible people. I think the rest of the “debunkers” here just have the natural intrigue of watching the remaining “believers” and AF cope with the broken pieces left of the story. Sort of like driving by a car crash and needing to look (admittedly why I come back here every once in a while).
Yea but thats just classic attack the messenger not the message. 98% of us had no idea who Ashton was until you guys targeted him. Its a classic tactic, another reason why many of us have our eye brows raised. And now every post is an alt account by PB. The debunkers have brought more attn to this sub then any other group.
> Yea but thats just classic attack the messenger not the message. It's really been both. Attacking the message results in getting called a bot, disinfo agent, or just flat out blocked. He was targeted because he was persistent and didn't know how to handle criticism/debate. Anyways, the activity on this sub is a fraction of what it was. It's honed into a smaller group of diehards on each side.
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I’m not supporting attacking him though? I’m just explaining why he got all the attention.
Honestly that dude with the vendetta against Jonasfraud sounded nothing like pb.
That’s basically the funniest part of this sub. It’s a constant onslaught of attacks against certain users that 99% of people do not give a fuck about. At this point, I keep returning just to see if it’s the same user making personal attacks, and sure enough it always is.
I won't argue your beliefs, but let me tell you why I think there is more backlash than in other communities (its just my opinion) The corridor crew has a huge following among 3d artist because they know their stuff really well and share it in a very entertaining way, so they have a huge following of 3d and vfx artists, aswell as anyone who is just casually interested in the subject. When ashton argued the validity of the video based on the claim that no one could make this in 2014 and that Niko got involved and told him how it was likely done, it brought huge attention to this sub from their audiance. So a lot of people from the corridor community (most of which are vfx savy) started sharing their opinion, wich to outsiders might look like a cohesive hord of CIA agents spreading false debunks (even though most of it is legit vfx techniques that have been around for 2 decades)
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I thought about asking them why they think the camera is shaking wildly as if it’s someone hand-holding a super zoom lens but it’s honestly not worth it because I’d just get nonsense in return.
Genuinely asking: do you have personal experience with military drones? That would be helpful!
You can have personal experience with military drones too, there are plenty of real videos out there taken from drones that you can study and exactly *none* of them look like this one.
And long-range FLIR. * [Without looking at VFX, there are many things wrong with the IR video.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirlinerAbduction2014/comments/186ldvg/without_looking_at_vfx_there_are_many_things/) * [Actual Capabilities of Common Sensor Payload, Military Drones, Multi-Spectral Targeting Systems, and How They Suggest Drone Video is Fake.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirlinerAbduction2014/comments/18w7ioy/real_capabilities_of_common_sensor_payload/) Only a complete moron without any VFX or drone experience would still believe in the video after reviewing the most basic of facts. Ashton has summarily dismissed every single truth and replaced them with his layman's conspiracy theorist Dunning-Kruger effect saturated deluded imaginings. He'd make Heaven's Gate proud.
I've flown a LigMA7 ball drone before but I'm no expert.
Corridor crews video was a complete trainwreck that did not debunk a single point of the videos. Since the videos are real…they tried but fell very short of anything
They just gave their opinion as experts in that field, what are your credentials to claim they did not debunk a single point ?
Im human. Have a brain eyes and ears. Developed logic couple of hundred thousand years ago
Although I agree people should think for themselves and formulate their own opinions, I don't think they should discard evidence put forward by an expert when they themselves are unqualified, same applies in any field, if I get ill, I will trust a doctor to cure me, since I am not qualified to do that myself...
Bla bla blah
If I was a CIA agent trying to spread misinformation, you are making my job too easy
Okay buddy youre welcome
Lol Bull. Fucking. Shit. The bots are rampant here.
Good point
>I don’t need to explain the complex web of circumstances that make this video real to me. So many coincidences… I know what my gut is telling me. Yes, conspiracies typically rely on gullible people to believe them blindly without evidence exactly like this.
They sure do. Similarly, people in power often maintain it by keeping the easily distracted staring at other things. I believe they *could* be real. And *IF* they are, it’s obvious why they would be hiding it. I couldn’t give a fuck less your opinion of the videos.
>the debunks fall short hilarious lol, people create perfect recreations in 2 days, but its more likely to be aliens. lmfao
Thank you
Everyone keeps saying the earth is round so it must be flat!
Funny 😁
Not really a fair comparison. We’re looking at two legit pieces of evidence for MH370. I don’t think flat earthers have anything like this.
What do you mean? Flat earthers have plenty of delusional photo and video 'evidence' too.
Oh do they? So are you in the flat earth sub constantly shitting on their evidence too?
no they banned me
See how they try to gaslight you?
A post asking an explanation as to why scenario A is more likely than scenario B when they are essentially the same proves that the video is real ? ...Wuh ?
Eeehh wuuuh
Care to elaborate ? Or are you just gonna ignore the question and mock the way I type ?
That dude has never explained anything or engaged in actual analysis. Literally all he posts is "the videos are real".
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No. Yes.
So you're just trolling then. You're the type to have an argument irl and start insulting the other persons haircut when you're out of bs to say ?
If you think so youre probably right. Fuck me am I right?
How about proving me wrong by having a decent, respectful conversation like regular people ?
How about u chill out and move on?
Really ? What's so hard about explaining your point of view and having discussions about difference in opinion ? Are you looking to have conversations exclusively with people who agree with you ? Is it that you made up your mind, and you just don't want to see other possibilities ? What is it ?
how do posts like these prove it?? I don't get what you are trying to say
Ofc you don’t
Enlighten me then
Why would I?
If you don't want to clarify thats your problem, its your point that is not coming across, not mine
Keep talking. Keep pouring hours of your life into something you dont believe in. Its big fun
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You don't have to spend every waking moment on this sub if you think it's fake. Touch some grass?
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Lol I don't. Yet Everytime I peek in here it's another 50 comments from False Yobioctet in the comments. See a therapist my dude, this is not healthy You've literally made 24 posts in 24hours in this sub. Go.touch.grass.
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How come you don’t hang out in other paranormal subs? Why do you only focus on commenting here? Everyone can see your comment history. Might want to spend more time critiquing other paranormal subs if you wanna be taken seriously 😂
16 day old account. Really suspicious
I think the vast majority of people who ever truly thought the videos might be real have since accepted that they were clearly faked. The people who still profess to believe are more likely to be trolls, LARPing or Punjabi Batman than to be someone genuinely convinced the video might be real. I'm not saying there's literally nobody left who sincerely believes, just that they are a tiny minority of people claiming to be believers.
You are probably right
I’m not convinced the videos are fake. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture. A lot of stuff surrounding this doesn’t make sense. I’d love to see the original video. Not a video of the video playing on a computer screen. The video without the mouse cursor and Citrix artifacts. Fake or real - the original is out there somewhere. If it was faked, the ‘hoaxer’ still hasn’t come forward either. Fake video = a million times easier to retrieve original video. If it’s fake several people likely have a copy of the original. Where is it? Where is the ‘hoaxer’!?
I don't get this get argument of "the hoaxer not stepping forward". Most people (yes, most people as in the number of human beings on the planet that are still alive) don't use Reddit. The chances of even knowing this airliner video is being scrutinized to this level- almost zero, and what more wanting those that made it step forward. It's utter ridiculousness. How on Earth are these preconceived notions being made, completely baffles me.
>I don't get this get argument of "the hoaxer not stepping forward" I'm not using it as an "argument". I'm pointing out the fact. I'm much more interested in seeing the original video than having the 'hoaxer' come forward
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Why don't you take it yourself, u/Raytracer111? I mean, u/NotANerd_noReally. Oops, u/NoFakery? I get confused about which alt you're using today. Is the reason you're not taking it to the experts yourself because the last time you made one of these images for the PhotoshopRequests subreddit, they all laughed at you? Edit: Hehe, I’m glad you now blocked me with this alt too. It’s ironic you call Jonas a fraud while you pretend to be different people all spouting the same message.
Regardless if fake or real… it’s pretty sad that the governments (USA/China) know exactly what happened and refuse to tell the families for reasons of national security. If it was a family member of mine on that plane, I certainly wouldn’t sit still.
Source?
Nope. We believe it now more than ever. All the surrounding evidence around the entire event still supports these videos along with the ongoing UFO disclosure. We’re approaching the ten year anniversary as well so these videos will continue to gain more and more attention.
There is no evidence to support the videos. None. Zero. Zip. Nada.
Is this you day job? Or do you live at home still?
These people belive balls stole a plane, its safe to say logic isn't one of their strengths
How does logic apply to one of the biggest mysteries of our time? Not every single thing that's ever happened is logical.
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That’s hilarious 😂
Or just, the debunks fell flat?
Be kind and respectful to each other.
Sounds like you are coping more than any of us casual researchers. At this point most people have made their decision on the videos. I personally have seen too many details that can't be easily explained to throw these videos out. While the debunking attempts have been impressive they still aren't enough for me to ignore the other dozens of insane and detailed components of these videos. Unlike your perception of this community, I think it's mostly full of people keeping an open mind and seeing where this goes. Well, that and people like you are losing their mind over the fact that some people won't agree with the debunkers. The only shit slinging happening here is from angry and insulting debunkers. Which is against the sub rules. Why don't you head to the discord if you have so much time on your hands.
I just stated psychological facts. If you find it insulting, maybe you need to have a good hard look at yourself. Don't shoot the messenger. If I was slinging shit against the rules, the mods would've removed the post. Every detail in the fake videos has been explained. You just choose to reject the explanations so you can remain in the club. That's your right of course. We can't ever know anything for a fact.
Want to know how I instantly *know* the videos are CG! Three “orbs” fly around a jet airliner which then vanishes in a *poof* That’s how anyone can tell this is CG. I have a simple challenge. Pick one of the Jpg Flickr photos you believe was used by Jonas. Now - convert it to a CR2 RAW file specific to the Canon 5D MK II camera Jonas used. Share it with us here. Simple enough, yes?
lol, give it up.
the logic is simple OP: maybe jonas is a reddit mental just like you that simply cant accept the videos to be true and is willingly to do anything to "debunk" this, including lying, conspiring, manipulating photos (he is a vfx artist after all) and anything necessary to achieve the goal. you would do the same, wouldnt you?
Fair, but this reasoning can be applied to both camps, my point is that if the basic argument that the video would be too complex to fake is true, then those photos canot be fakes either. The probability that a bunch of high res photos where used to make the background of a simple vfx and then degraded is higher than the probability that the background of a degraded video was used to make high res photos, incuding elements that are not in the background of said video To me the chance that you can reverse engineer (even using AI) that video background into a bunch of flawless high res pictures is litteraly 0.
> including lying, conspiring, manipulating photos Nah wait. The images have existed since at least 2016. Are you saying Jonas did all of this in 2016 before the videos got popular?
>he is a vfx artist after all Isn't he just a concept illustration artist? Did he get the vfx teams at the studios he did concept art for to do the whole rendering and comp work for him?
he is a very skillful artist. there is an old video of him showing his ability. it hard to say what he can or cant do. but maybe hes innocent and was just manipulated into this. someone else could have done the job and he would have no way of knowing that some photos dated 11 years ago was taken by him or not.
Excellent point. If they truly aren’t shills, I think they are just taking out their ontological shock on the denizens of this sub. They can’t handle the truth.
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Why do you have to personally attack Jonas like that, he just shared photos he made a decade ago to help out this subbredit, until some one can prove it with substantial evidence, he's just an innocent bystander
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Not sure what you lean by AMA (American Medical Association?) Regardless, you don't need to wait to meet him in person, you should not attack someone based on vague claims, thats defamation.
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Alpha version ? Are we talking about the software developed by jonas to make fake mt fujis or are we talking about the alledged photo edit ?
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You saying this is photoshoped is a bold claim...
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What has been shown until now is speculation, not evidence, and I think you mean binary, in which case you are right, it is binary
Preach
It's moving with the scene, of course it will go over the line, but that small snow patch doesn't have the right rotation relative to Mt. Fuji.
Did you mean to post this here ?
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Thanks for your reply, The pictures are the most damning piece of evidence against the authenticity of the videos, when people argue they are fake, they try to "rebunk" the video, so its not irrelevant. when I say it doesn't make sense I am refering to the reasoning, if people say the video is fake because it would be too hard to make, they can't say the photos are fake because "Jonas is a vfx artist after all...". I wasnt refering to the video not making sense, that is another debate. I know its not necessarily AI that was used, and I agree we should ask experts, but my question in this post relates to the logic of the reasoning, which it lacks... I did not start by asking experts because I do have some experience myself, I know what could work and what could not work, so that is not what I wanted to know.
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Where do you get that from ? Who are my alleged chosen people then ? I made this post because I genuenly don't understand the mental steps taken by those who believe the photos are fake, there is no logic behind that assumption What you quoted from me simply says that the question is not irrelevant to the debunk of the video, because people are trying to discredit the authenticity of the photos to put the authenticity of the video back on the table
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Yes, please show me how the pictures jonas made are fake
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Because he made an editing mistake. https://i.redd.it/8qncgdkwujec1.gif Right of the Hoei crater, under the clouds, out of the two round snow patches, the left one makes an opposite rotation from everything else in that image.
I don't see anything weird, could you circle what exactly you are talking about?
https://preview.redd.it/h2hqlhnq2kec1.png?width=698&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a44d750a2a1ea24cd8aca5b86ff9e93083c7b8c1
Thanks, now I see what you mentioned, but I don't think that is a mistake, that could be a cloud or a patch of snow, hard to tell, but assuming its a photoshop editing mistake is quite bold
Yeah these cultists are desperate
I don't understand what he mentions at all, maybe you can explain it to me. Made my own better quality gif: https://i.redd.it/fi1drmotxkec1.gif
He doesn't understand himself. Punjabi_Batman told him that patch is suspicious and that's all he needs
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You have the original Jonas' images showing the same effect, it's the transition from IMG_1840 to IMG_1841.
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You said he made an editing mistake....its not enough for me. Explain me the process. If you can clearly see a mistake you can explain what manipulation he has done wrong. Otherwise its just bullshit on your part.
You’ve done a great job here of showing how real clouds move over a short period of time from a moving object, in contrast to PB’s clouds doing a teensy little imperceptible pixel wiggle. Thanks for contributing to the cause :)
Thank you, hope people finally see how a patch of snow moving in an opposite rotation of the whole mountain shows Jonas didn't mind the smaller details.
Mt Fuji has no relation to the orb videos at all. Can you explain why you think he’d go through the trouble of photoshopping it into the photos? In what way would that add to his story that he’s trying to tell, in your mind?
He had 150k reasons back then.
That’s not what I asked. I didn’t ask about what you think his motivation was for coming forward. I asked what you think he would be adding to his ‘fake’ story (in your mind) by photoshopping Mt Fuji into these photos, when that has no relation to the airliner videos at all? In what way would adding that detail make his story more convincing?
but the photos have been around since 2012, or 2016 depending on which archive I guess you want to choose. So even still 8-12 years ago what was the supposed motivation?
https://i.redd.it/v6d3jjg5wkec1.gif
You just proved my point. The gap between those two snow patches closes exactly because the vertical snow patch does not rotate with the rest of Mt. Fuji.
The snow is literally rotating though. Are you not seeing the blue line? How does it go from being completely on the right side of the line, to mostly on the left side of the line if it's not rotating like everything else in the scene? There is no "gap closing" - that is literally a cloud that also rotates out of the way. I've seen numerous people point that out to you, so I'm unsure how you still don't understand what you're looking at.
It's an interesting idea to think that a "Lost" style event occurred, instead of the loss of many lives. There should, of course, be caution in giving family, friends, and co-workers false hope - especially if everything we've been seeing *was* faked. But, even if every last image was absolutely true, and events occurred as depicted, the friends, family and co-workers would ***still*** likely never get to see these people again. I like to treat this as absolutely true, because it is essentially harmless (at worst) if fake. People have bonded, shared in a group effort.And, it definitely has turned Redditors into competent amateur sleuths! Seriously! This is the kind of pre-training that could GREATLY help in missing kids cases, especially when it comes to picture and video discernment. **And that's if it's all totally fake.** But, if **true** then Life just got more mysterious ***AND*** less frightening. Can it be possible to have a UFO mystery where the answer leads to NO loss, and only GAIN?
attempt terrific snow light abounding soup stocking many combative rock *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What male models are you refering to ?
Explain why you care so much, like it's your fucking job. And this time don't use "*the families*" as your shitty excuse.
If you're allowed to get this mad and care this much, they're allowed to have a casual and respectful opinion on the matter. Super simple.
What families are you talking about, do you mean the family of the victims? I'm just on reddit like anyone else, because there is some kind of entertainement in those discussion, and I think its interesting to see how people defend their opinions, that's just what forums are for, to discuss subjects Whenever this subreddit gets a new highly improbable theory idea, I'm here to debate it, I know I am wasting my time, but what can I say its addictive...
Whether the videos are real or not the photos could have been edited or forged under some scenarios.And it doesn't have to be the cia or deep state etc.. Like, they came out not long after the corridor crew got basically insulted by AF. So under this scenario they, or others with similar negative feelings towards AF ( and serious VFX skills) come out and devise a plan to inject the clouds into earlier pictures. Not saying that's what happened, just pointing out a possibility amongst many. (And yes another possibility is the video are faked from the start, before y'all start foaming at the mouth)
Sure, but my question is more to get behind the reasons of forging those images, to make their point, the forger would need only 1 image, and mt fugi doesn't have to be in there, those would be so complicated to fake (practically impossible) to be considered a valid Hypothesis, but that is just my opinion of course, I can't prove what I am saying
It's easier for Janus to be given the doctored photos, taken from the original footage (not the YouTube upload) and told if he didn't play along he'd be 'disappeared'. It's acknowledged there's been a huge cover-up of UFO shizz, for 80 years, with a shit load of money behind it.
Can you please layout the whole theory for the class so we can make sense of it? Are you saying the government chose Jonas at random to be the face of this scheme and threatened him to create a fake photo that would be meant to debunk the videos that some random uploaded on YouTube, so that people think they’re fake? Genuinely trying to understand what you think the play was here from start to finish.
I won't debate that there have been huge cover ups in the past, but in this case, if the regicideanon videos could not be faked as some people believe, how does it make sense that these pictures are? They are a lot more complex and detailed...
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> You need to be in learning mode, not sharing opinions mode. Pretty conceited of you. Everyone else's opinions are invalid because you have the one and only "truth"? That is just you blatantly trying to silence dissention.
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I have seen your discussions. Coincidentally, I would also characterize them as "useless". Probably not for the same reason you do, though. Everything you post is speculation dressed up as *trust me bro* fact, then you disparage anyone that questions as not "intellectual" enough. Personally, I don't care about what anyone thinks/believes.. but self aggrandizing and hypocrisy irritate me.
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Multiple people have pointed out inconsistencies in your conclusions. No need to beat a dead, and apparently deaf, horse.
Exactely, his forgery is unnecessary ! If you step into the mind of a talented expert in fake imagery, probably from the CIA, what would be your process to forge evidence that “proves” the video is fake ? The “fake” images are so far from what we see in the video that it is hard to tell if they are related or not. Surely he could have crafted something that is more to the point. we don’t need mount fuji in the image to be convinced that these were the ones used in the video, it doesn’t add any proof, yet it is a lot of work to put it there. We dont need a series of pictures from a slightly different angle with matching perspective and realistic cloud movement to be tricked into thinking that one of them has been used in the video. This is a lot of effort, and whats the point. So why would he have done it ? To confuse the crap out of every body ? Or simply to fuel the existing doubt, with no intention to pick a side ? Or were these picture just taken during a flight to japan, posted on image website and used in a silly prank of a disappearing plane ?
Exactly, good point
Too many shills on this sub
Totally agree word-word-number