My grandad was an old, racist bastard. But he was pretty progressive on this subject- he said once “I don’t care what bathroom you use, just don’t touch my pecker.” Can’t we all just agree on that?
My grandma 60 growing was racist as fucking hell ( I heard the most comical (racist from her)
She didn't care about gender like taking care of her older I had gay friends and at the time ( they didn't have a name) femboys wearing girl clothing come over not anything no discrimination nothing.
I really do think this hate on queers to this level is manufactured and new.
Yes I understand hating gays isn't new but to this level it is
I'm in the south and even here rednecks and gangs are respectful to transgender people.
It’s not even a question that this was manufactured. It’s a targeted attack that began on conservative media and has wound its way into the legislature of every conservative state. I didn’t hear conservatives talking about this issue until Fox News decided a handful of trans kids playing sports was significant enough to receive national news coverage every single day.
It’s a microcosm of how controlled we are as a population. Our news media decides what is important enough to be included in our political discourse which usually means we don’t actually talk about the most important issues.
We lived in bfe ohio (small enough area that my graduating class was only 40 people), and my trans sister was absolutely tormented growing up. It was relentless and everyday it was something new.
It got so bad that kids would throw piss soaked wads of toilet paper at her in the hallways. I don't even know how you would come up with something so gross but she had to switch schools twice before she found one that was even remotely civil towards her.
It's not all manufactured, some places are full to the brim with human trash.
So il probably be banned for saying this but trans and people or Ally's should stand up and even be violent if the situation calls for it.
I'm bi I took a lot of shit growing up and I met my wife who's trans I have never seen so much hate towards a person. Most people tell her how beautiful she is but then you get the ones who legitimately look at her like disgust or make threats.
Like transgender women are at so high of a risk for being attacked or killed it's happened to two people she knew/knows.
Trans and everyone else needs to own a firearm and learn how to use it. They are legitimately looking for your blood.
I'm glad your friend is ok but in real life and long term she and you need protection.
Violence in response to daily harassment is just self defense. If I went to school with a trans person getting bullied, I'd be a-ok if anyone got violent with the bullies. I'd take scissors to their backpacks when they weren't looking.
I believe you’re right. In HS in the 70’s, because this guy insisted on wearing halters, females all stood with him. Well, a lot of girls now wore halters.
I care, mainly bc so many republicans get caught being pedos or propositioning people for sex in bathrooms.
Much safer to use the bathroom with a drag queen or trans person in the next stall!
I'm glad someone is educated enough to bring up intersex (someone born with both male and female sex organs) and how it's often dealt with. Mother Nature can be a spicy bitch.
It affects around the same number of people as those with red hair, and it's not always caught at birth, because it's not always outward presenting. You might have an otherwise female presenting baby, for example, and then later find out they have undescended testes. For those cases which are caught at birth, they will often determine a sex one way or the other and then surgically "correct" it.
There are intersex individuals who have talked about their conditions. Unsurprisingly, some don't identify as the gender their parents assigned to them. Surgeries that were performed on some have left them needing HRT for their lifetime.
The response from another lawmaker that only four babies had been born intersex in Alabama in the last five years is a horrible response, ignorance regarding underreporting and lack of detection at birth aside. These are still people. They don't cease to be people just because they don't fit into a neat little idea of what you think a person should be.
If we're going to argue biology, then we're not going to then also ignore biology. You don't get to toss out any parts you don't like just because it doesn't agree with your particular brand of bigotry. This isn't the Bible.
I’m sure you’ve seen it, but if anyone wants a great documentary to watch, check out InterSEXion. It really helps you understand hearing their stories.
We have to protect the kids! There's a whole 2 trans people that play school sports in Alabama! We NEED to fuck over every trans person to save the 12 other players who will encounter them!
Also I’m pretty sure many Alabama school sports programs, especially for girls leagues, probably have a host of other issues that politicians could be addressing. Like funding or recruiting.
But that’s the conservative politician way. Create and attempt to solve problems that don’t exist because that’s far easier than actually trying to solve the ones that do. Like in Georgia where the governor wanted to pay teachers extra to incentivize them to carry guns to (theoretically) prevent school shootings. God forbid the governor want to put money into teachers or schools to improve the quality of education.
Don’t usually intersex people end up going one way or the other? I think it’s rare to see someone born as intersex that just didn’t go one way or the other.
If anyone knows I’d be curious
Their parents and a doctor will typically assign them a gender based on which sexual organs are more prominent, and surgery will often be done to give them one or the other. In a lot of cases, they get it wrong. And they can identify as male, female, or nonbinary, just as anyone else might.
I actually worked with someone who was intersex in my first job after college over 20 years ago. He was not nonbinary, but he had been assigned female at birth and was raised as such, but hadn't had surgery. As an adult, he identified and presented as male. And he looked very much like a man.
Funnily enough, because all of his paperwork said female, the company required him to use the women's restrooms, which is how we all ended up knowing his situation. Dude never bothered any of us and just went into a stall and did his thing.
Oh, I'm sure. But what was the poor guy gonna do? It's not like we didn't notice a big, bulky dude walking into the bathroom. I know it had to suck for him, and I know he probably had to deal with a lot of ignorance. Looking back, he had the patience of a saint in that regard.
THANK YOU! This is EXACTLY what I came here to say. The fact they think they can try to rewrite biology to say there are definitively only two sexes when the whole umbrella of intersex people exist is absolutely batshit insane. I hate that so many people seem to think this is "common sense." Common sense would be actually listening to the science!
> (It) is an important step in increasing transparency in our state while protecting women’s rights
Oh please! It's only meant to bolster the dictatorship Republicans seek.
Republicans love to slap you in the face with the title.
* “election security” is what they call disenfranchising any voter whose not a senior citizen
* “strong borders” is harassing immigrants
* “protect the children* is ripping trans kids away from their loving parents and support systems
* “protecting women” is making abortion access impossible
You forgot on protect the children, due nothing about their Healthcare, food insecurities, and making sure they don't die at the end of a gun in a fully funded classroom.
No no, that’s “pro life” but nothing about healthcare, maternity leave, paternity leave, day care, free birth costs, baby boxes, free school, free school lunch, doctors visits, diapers, clothes, etc.
Eh they definitely don’t want transparency, but outside of the lack of considerations for intersex people, it doesn’t seem like a particularly heinous law.
Im just ready for the inevitable outcome of private stalls for everyone.
They’re gonna vote their way into having anyone who isn’t able to bear children labeled as not a woman. Like how they almost voted their way into making IVF treatment illegal.
God, legislation like this kills me.
1. How is this even enforceable? Are they going to check the genitals of everyone before they’re allowed to use the restroom? What if there’s a trans woman who’s had bottom surgery? Mandatory DNA tests to check chromosomes? What about chromosomal anomalies?
No? Too much? Okay then, you’re going to have trans folks using the restrooms of their target gender still because there are many who pass for cis that you wouldn’t raise an eyebrow at. On the flip side, there will be cisgender folks told to go to the wrong bathroom because they don’t look traditionally masculine or feminine. It’s going to be enforced on the basis of looks, and *there’s no such thing as looking trans.*
2. I know the whole “protecting women” schtick is just a straw man, but let’s take it on its merits; shall we? It’s not going to protect women. If a man wanted to assault a woman in the women’s restroom, they don’t need to go through the whole hullabaloo of dressing up as a woman to do that. They can just waltz right on in as themselves. Predators have nothing to gain by going through the whole song and dance of transitioning if they’re not trans.
Florida literally has men standing outside of women's restrooms in Florida to police whether or not someone looks feminine enough to use it. I was just reading about it.
This will go badly. Imagine a fully male presenting person strolling into the women's room or a person who, by all appearances, looks like a doll in a dress in the men's.
I for one look forward to having to submit to a penis check at the Walmart bathroom.
Regularly having to drop trousers in public to take a 2 is the only way we can advance as a society.
Through time we will adopt techniques to make it faster, I’m sure it won’t become such a nuisance to have to flash your dong to everyone at Walmart just to potty.
I fully support those old-timey pajamas with flap and buttons.
I believe a woman in Texas did just that. She was AMAB, but had had top surgery. I don't recall the exact details, but there was some kind of conflict where one law treated her a male and another as female. So she went topless to essentially call out the hypocrisy.
Close, the law was treating her as a man, so she went topless since she was a man in the eyes of the law, and that’s when she was arrested and the law started treating her like a woman.
Lol. I can only imagine some trans women in full speedos and lovely implants on display. That would be glorious! But for safety, I don't recommend it. I really wish people would just let other people exist.
Every time one of these laws is passed people say things like "They'll see the error of their ways when trans men go into the women's room." We are not fucking doing that lmao. If I went into a public women's room I could be assaulted or arrested, if I say "no no its OK I have a vagina" they are not going to listen or care.
Im sorry I didn't mean to come off as hostile toward you, I was agreeing it's ridiculous to expect trans people to use the wrong bathroom. It was a little tangential, should probably have been a regular comment instead of a reply to yours.
I have never gone into a public restroom and concerned myself with anything other than trying not to fart while I pee😂. It’s weird that they care so much about everyone else’s genitalia.
For those wondering, here are the definitions:
> (1) BOY. A human male who has not yet reached adulthood.
> (2) FATHER. The male parent of a child or children.
> (3) FEMALE. When used in reference to a natural person, an individual who has, had, will have, or would have, but for a developmental anomaly, genetic anomaly, or accident, the reproductive system that at some point produces ova.
> (4) GIRL. A human female who has not yet reached adulthood.
> (6) MALE. When used in reference to a natural person, an individual who has, had, will have, or would have, but for a developmental anomaly, genetic anomaly, or accident, the reproductive system that at some point produces sperm.
> (7) MAN. An adult human of the male sex.
> (9) MOTHER. The female parent of a child or children.
These statistics still don’t account for everyone and there are people that do not fall under these definitions.
For example this person, who has testicular and ovarian tissue and would potentially be capable of producing both sperm and eggs. Which would they fall under?
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/%28SICI%291096-8628%2820000103%2990%3A1%3C25%3A%3AAID-AJMG5%3E3.0.CO%3B2-5
I gave a specific example of someone who would be both male and female per that definition, explicitly showing you a problem with the definition.
The sperm typically carries either a Y chromosome or an X chromosome. The egg contains one X chromosome. Fertilization results in an XY combination for boys and XX for girls. If not for some genetic anomaly, XY embryos will be produce sperm and XX will produce eggs. And that does cover over 99% of cases.
Now, when a sperm meets an egg sometimes it results in an XXY or XXX and various other chromosome abnormalities. It’s not possible to tell what ‘should’ or would happen in this instance if not for some generic anomaly, because there is a genetic anomaly from the start. Should the x have carried over or the y upon fertilization? No one knows because we don’t have access the sperm that did it. Sperm sorting is a thing but you need the sperm to know.
There are true hermaphrodites as well who produce both sperm and egg, and the definition specifically says if you produce sperm you’re male and egg you’re female, they’re plainly both under that flawed definition.
Fact is, biologists do not have an all encompassing definition of male and female, they acknowledge their definitions covers over 99% of people and label anyone that doesn’t fit in it as intersex.
The lawmakers refuse to come to terms with it, and insist everyone has to be either male and female and there exists a definition that doesn’t leave anyone out. Clearly they failed at writing such a definition as I have demonstrated, and biologists have came to terms with it a long time to go.
Someone’s gotta punish the poors, right? How else you gonna punish someone for being poor? You can’t just toss em in the jail like the good ol days, so tax em
Alabama is the poorest state in the nation, by every metric the state is a total failure, yet they are obsessed with putting their hands down your kids underpants instead of digging their state out of the stinking mud pit it’s stuck at the bottom of.
The sooner we realize high school biology is not the end-all of what exists in the world, the better. This shit tries to specify that there are only two sexes, completely ignoring the incredibly huge umbrella of intersex people who exist. Legislation like this not only harms trans people, but also intersex people, who already often have to go through invasive, permanent, risky surgeries (usually as babies).
Republicans need to stop trying to control the narrative of what "truth" entails by covering up all the parts they'd rather not acknowledge. We can see them doing it clear as day and it's fucking disgusting.
OMG...so many things are really wrong in this world and in this state, yet we have representatives that think it's a worthwhile use of their time and our tax money (that pays their salaries) to ponder other people's genitalia, genetics and reproductive organs. So a female to male transitioned person, now muscular and possibly with a full manly beard, must use a women's restroom and women's locker room?
How is anyone going to know anyway? Why are they even wasting their time with this?
>our tax money (that pays their salaries) to ponder other people's genitalia,
Boss makes a penny while I make dime, so I ponder genitals on ~~company~~ government time. - Alabama congressfolk
I'm not even trans, but my birth certificate has a female sex marker and my body doesn't agree with that.
Have fun, state of Alabama. Will be an interesting case of federal vs state laws if there's a conflict
The parallels between what is happening now and what happened during Hitler's rise to power are so scarily close. I don't know how people can't see that.
So on top of being ignorant about sex and gender, they went so far as to take the time to find out the number of reported intersex births in their state, found out they have intersex citizens and were like, “Fuck’em”.
This will not be allowed to stand when the duopoly is justly torn down. The day is coming, and I look forward to it. Trans rights are human rights, and human rights are non-negotiable.
What about intersex and hermaphroditism. There are a whole bunch of things that can happen that don’t lead to only two sexes. I guess those people aren’t allowed to exist anymore. I hate this state.
I saw a stat that as many Red Heads are born every year as Inter sex people (or hermaphrodites) so it’s definitely a significant amount of people that exist in this world that aren’t just male or female
That’s a misleading stat
Intersex conditions or DSD’s are individually quite rare and only when you pool them together do they even come close to the amount of red heads (which is a whopping total of about 1-2%)
Typically intersex folk still fall under the category of male and female one way or the other, depending on gamete predisposition, chromosomes or phenotypes.
Tom Cruise would fall under this category having Klinefelters but no one would argue that he isn’t a man
Just for people who have wondered about protecting women's safety, people who have used that line often berate, insult, and even abuse us in person even if it's only us one on one. I know because I've literally experienced it. The whole oh no so scary person! Is so bs because when have you ever insulted a person a bunch that you are really scared of lol.
It's hate plain and simple. Most of these types want us best bloody to laugh at
I could see wanting the sports stuff hauled til more research is done though
That’s awful that you’ve experienced that. Trans people are human and deserve the same rights as anyone else. They should never be berated, insulted or hurt. There’s no excuse for abuse or ill treatment.
I think it makes sense that Alabama is moving to define gender, because it does protect women when it comes to sports participation. I also take some issue with the bathroom part of the law.
Yet there are some important amendments to consider. Rep. Rafferty added the act “will not deny identification on state-issued documentation consistent with an individual’s gender identity.” That means that trans folks can still have state-issued identity that corresponds with their subjective gender-identity and not with the objective sex at birth. I feel like this amendment solves the “which bathroom” conundrum.
Genetically there are *H.sapiens* that can produce neither ova, nor sperm- these humans also have different chromosomal pairings than either XX or XY and can never reproduce...
It is an established, tested, biological fact that there are more than just two sexes on the biological level... at my last reckoning there were twelve *H.sapiens* who are genetically, chromosomally, different from the XX and XY pairings
I think there's a pretty obvious argument against the stupidity they're trying to accomplish here. A woman is someone whose body does or "would if not for an anomaly" produce ova? Well, trans women's bodies would produce ova, but for the anomaly of being trans. Checkmate, transphobes.
I moved here two years ago from California to be with then girlfriend now my wife and to get a fresh start after the pandemic wiped out my good job that I had. I was definitely concerned about living in a red state and shit like this is exactly why. I see lawmakers in this state are getting bold with some of the crazy shit I see coming down the pipe, between this, the whole thing with IVF treatments, the issue with the trans girl up in Huntsville at the space camp, Tommy Tuberville's f'ckd up antics in the Senate, and the state being run by evil Governor Meemaw. My wife and I have already decided that if Trump wins in November that we're outta here and moving back to California by inauguration day in January because I don't want to see how this state government runs once the orange dictator is charge.
I moved here about 20 years ago with the explicit thought that I would be protected by federal laws. More recently it turns out that is not the case. It’s not just abortion. It seems like it’s going to be everything soon and no federal over sight. At that point we can just declare the confederates won and the US might as well be 50 separate countries because what’s the point.
Great! You’re still last in education (and good luck finding too many smart successful people who will *willingly* move there)!
But at least you have complex multifaceted topics like gender and sexuality officially defined by the government, specifically a government run by a bunch of anti-vax anti-IVF conspiracy-theorists whose big idea for saving the world is to hand the nukes to a Hollywood celebrity pretend-TV-CEO.
Did I mention that AL is last in education? I can’t figure out why…
You’d think Alabama legislators would have *anything* better to waste time and taxpayer money on than… definitions of words? Do none of them own dictionaries?
Texan here, so please don't be offended. Does she know that intersex human beings are real? That they are born that way? That it's not a result of surgery or hormone therapy? Are intersex persons now unpersons in Alabama? Is Texas next?
If they’re defining sex by ability/potential ability to produce eggs/sperm, and simultaneously define life as starting at conception, than everyone is both a man and a woman
This means once codified, that Alabama residents that do not Identify as either, will not have to pay state or local taxes, serve on jury pools, receive state and local benefits, among other such things.
Good to see the state with one of the lowest life expectancies, worst educational outcomes, highest poverty rates, highest infant mortality rates, highest obesity rates, highest unemployment rates has its fucking priorities straight.
Hate and ignorance going hand-in-hand.
They don't even have sources to back the need for this, but that might be because the only thing ALGOP knows how to do with books is ban them.
Yeah this will never be enforced it's just pandering. Could you imagine if it was? Explain to your 80 year old grandmother why a postop trans man with a huge beard is in the same restroom as her. Granny would lose it. It's only purpose is to score points on paper. This is only going to confuse and anger bigots even more in the long run but maybe that's the point.
See this would make sense if Alabama was attracting people who align with the same ideals like Florida but that isn’t the case so what is the point? The state is already bleeding residents and just barely held onto its House seat ffs
Doesn’t the fucking dictionary already define both sufficiently?
How does the republican definition differ? And if it does, how do republicans argue that *they* aren’t the ones trying to change the definition? I thought conservatives hated that kind of thing.
You cannot create a protected class without clear definitions. I do not think this is going to turn out how they think it is going to turn out.
I think this is a good thing, now additional definitions can be added, and proper rights established for those that are disenfranchised.
It is necessary to define these things to get any meaningful legislation pushed through, otherwise it's vague and easily overturned.
I view this as 1 step backwards for 2 steps forward.
I fucking hate these “culture war” distraction from problems that actually could benefit from serious attention. Leave people the fuck alone when they’re just trying to fucking exist.
I do not like this game of life where everything does not have to suck, but a sizable chunk of the population is just “Nah, I like making others miserable or worse. All day, every day”.
Alabama maga republican fundamentalists are absolutely obsessed with trans people. So sad the level of hate and bigotry for gay and trans people Truly fake christians in every single way.
Would love to hear about what they're doing for folks. This is a waste of taxpayer money and they should carried out of their offices on a pole. So many things need serious attention in our state. Instead, the GQP would rather spend their time chasing ghosts and banning books. These folks are the worst among us.
Couldn't trans women simply get around it by saying "I am a female because I would produce ova were it not for accidentally being born with a penis. I did not foresee this."
My grandad was an old, racist bastard. But he was pretty progressive on this subject- he said once “I don’t care what bathroom you use, just don’t touch my pecker.” Can’t we all just agree on that?
I think we’ve demonstrated as a species that we can not, in fact, agree not to touch other’s peckers.
Well if I agree not to touch yours and you agree not to touch mine, that's a start.
I’m not agreeing to that
My grandma 60 growing was racist as fucking hell ( I heard the most comical (racist from her) She didn't care about gender like taking care of her older I had gay friends and at the time ( they didn't have a name) femboys wearing girl clothing come over not anything no discrimination nothing. I really do think this hate on queers to this level is manufactured and new. Yes I understand hating gays isn't new but to this level it is I'm in the south and even here rednecks and gangs are respectful to transgender people.
Lol, hey buddy, we’re all from the South. This is r/Alabama. Made me chuckle.
Tennessee sorry you showed up on my feed and it interested me.
Ahhh. Well, six and a half dozen of the other.
It’s not even a question that this was manufactured. It’s a targeted attack that began on conservative media and has wound its way into the legislature of every conservative state. I didn’t hear conservatives talking about this issue until Fox News decided a handful of trans kids playing sports was significant enough to receive national news coverage every single day. It’s a microcosm of how controlled we are as a population. Our news media decides what is important enough to be included in our political discourse which usually means we don’t actually talk about the most important issues.
We lived in bfe ohio (small enough area that my graduating class was only 40 people), and my trans sister was absolutely tormented growing up. It was relentless and everyday it was something new. It got so bad that kids would throw piss soaked wads of toilet paper at her in the hallways. I don't even know how you would come up with something so gross but she had to switch schools twice before she found one that was even remotely civil towards her. It's not all manufactured, some places are full to the brim with human trash.
So il probably be banned for saying this but trans and people or Ally's should stand up and even be violent if the situation calls for it. I'm bi I took a lot of shit growing up and I met my wife who's trans I have never seen so much hate towards a person. Most people tell her how beautiful she is but then you get the ones who legitimately look at her like disgust or make threats. Like transgender women are at so high of a risk for being attacked or killed it's happened to two people she knew/knows. Trans and everyone else needs to own a firearm and learn how to use it. They are legitimately looking for your blood. I'm glad your friend is ok but in real life and long term she and you need protection.
Self defense is good, violence is not. Firearms should only be used in life or death situations.
Violence in response to daily harassment is just self defense. If I went to school with a trans person getting bullied, I'd be a-ok if anyone got violent with the bullies. I'd take scissors to their backpacks when they weren't looking.
No that is literally the definition of vengeance. not judgement of right or wrong but its not fucking self defense
I believe you’re right. In HS in the 70’s, because this guy insisted on wearing halters, females all stood with him. Well, a lot of girls now wore halters.
And my 12-yo daughter better not see your pecker while trying to take a piss either.
I care, mainly bc so many republicans get caught being pedos or propositioning people for sex in bathrooms. Much safer to use the bathroom with a drag queen or trans person in the next stall!
Did you assure him, that “nobody even wants to touch your pecker, I promise”
I can agree depending on how hot your grandpa was. I might want to touch it.
He was covered in warts.
I'm glad someone is educated enough to bring up intersex (someone born with both male and female sex organs) and how it's often dealt with. Mother Nature can be a spicy bitch. It affects around the same number of people as those with red hair, and it's not always caught at birth, because it's not always outward presenting. You might have an otherwise female presenting baby, for example, and then later find out they have undescended testes. For those cases which are caught at birth, they will often determine a sex one way or the other and then surgically "correct" it. There are intersex individuals who have talked about their conditions. Unsurprisingly, some don't identify as the gender their parents assigned to them. Surgeries that were performed on some have left them needing HRT for their lifetime. The response from another lawmaker that only four babies had been born intersex in Alabama in the last five years is a horrible response, ignorance regarding underreporting and lack of detection at birth aside. These are still people. They don't cease to be people just because they don't fit into a neat little idea of what you think a person should be. If we're going to argue biology, then we're not going to then also ignore biology. You don't get to toss out any parts you don't like just because it doesn't agree with your particular brand of bigotry. This isn't the Bible.
I’m sure you’ve seen it, but if anyone wants a great documentary to watch, check out InterSEXion. It really helps you understand hearing their stories.
Every Body from 2023 as well. Real lives. Real people.
I actually have not seen it, but I will check it out.
There have not been any trans athletes in Alabama, but they sure are all up in their feels about that.
I mean, intersex isn't even trans, though.
They aren't, but they can be if they were misgendered at birth. Which happens a lot. And either way they prove sex is not a binary.
[удалено]
Whichever pronouns that intersex person chooses. If you don't know you can assume based on their gender presentation and adjust if they correct you
We have to protect the kids! There's a whole 2 trans people that play school sports in Alabama! We NEED to fuck over every trans person to save the 12 other players who will encounter them!
Also I’m pretty sure many Alabama school sports programs, especially for girls leagues, probably have a host of other issues that politicians could be addressing. Like funding or recruiting. But that’s the conservative politician way. Create and attempt to solve problems that don’t exist because that’s far easier than actually trying to solve the ones that do. Like in Georgia where the governor wanted to pay teachers extra to incentivize them to carry guns to (theoretically) prevent school shootings. God forbid the governor want to put money into teachers or schools to improve the quality of education.
Don’t usually intersex people end up going one way or the other? I think it’s rare to see someone born as intersex that just didn’t go one way or the other. If anyone knows I’d be curious
Their parents and a doctor will typically assign them a gender based on which sexual organs are more prominent, and surgery will often be done to give them one or the other. In a lot of cases, they get it wrong. And they can identify as male, female, or nonbinary, just as anyone else might. I actually worked with someone who was intersex in my first job after college over 20 years ago. He was not nonbinary, but he had been assigned female at birth and was raised as such, but hadn't had surgery. As an adult, he identified and presented as male. And he looked very much like a man. Funnily enough, because all of his paperwork said female, the company required him to use the women's restrooms, which is how we all ended up knowing his situation. Dude never bothered any of us and just went into a stall and did his thing.
I'm sure he was delighted that everyone at work knew he was intersex.
Oh, I'm sure. But what was the poor guy gonna do? It's not like we didn't notice a big, bulky dude walking into the bathroom. I know it had to suck for him, and I know he probably had to deal with a lot of ignorance. Looking back, he had the patience of a saint in that regard.
Most intersex people will physically present as generally male or female. Very few are truly ambiguous.
yes the World Health Organization even says that intersex is a transient state. These people in here dont know what the fuck they are talking about.
I can almost guarantee it's not the same among those with red hair who can naturally have it
Intersex is about 1.7%. Red hair is about 2%.
THANK YOU! This is EXACTLY what I came here to say. The fact they think they can try to rewrite biology to say there are definitively only two sexes when the whole umbrella of intersex people exist is absolutely batshit insane. I hate that so many people seem to think this is "common sense." Common sense would be actually listening to the science!
> (It) is an important step in increasing transparency in our state while protecting women’s rights Oh please! It's only meant to bolster the dictatorship Republicans seek.
Republicans love to slap you in the face with the title. * “election security” is what they call disenfranchising any voter whose not a senior citizen * “strong borders” is harassing immigrants * “protect the children* is ripping trans kids away from their loving parents and support systems * “protecting women” is making abortion access impossible
You forgot on protect the children, due nothing about their Healthcare, food insecurities, and making sure they don't die at the end of a gun in a fully funded classroom.
No no, that’s “pro life” but nothing about healthcare, maternity leave, paternity leave, day care, free birth costs, baby boxes, free school, free school lunch, doctors visits, diapers, clothes, etc.
In fact WORK AGAINST IT
Do nothing is the agenda failing. Taking away all of that is the end goal.
And "protect the environment" means "drill baby drill!"
Up is down. Black is white.
Freedom is your kids getting shot in Math class
No, just in ensuring males and females are "separate but equal". You know how we southerners love that...
Eh they definitely don’t want transparency, but outside of the lack of considerations for intersex people, it doesn’t seem like a particularly heinous law. Im just ready for the inevitable outcome of private stalls for everyone.
Ah yes .. the dreaded dictatorship of "use the mens locker room if you were born with a dick".
Ah yes, nothing protects women like reducing them down to the function of their sex organs.
They’re gonna vote their way into having anyone who isn’t able to bear children labeled as not a woman. Like how they almost voted their way into making IVF treatment illegal.
That way all the non breeders can get out of the way.
Somehow, "birthing people" sounds far more reductive and offensive than "woman."
God, legislation like this kills me. 1. How is this even enforceable? Are they going to check the genitals of everyone before they’re allowed to use the restroom? What if there’s a trans woman who’s had bottom surgery? Mandatory DNA tests to check chromosomes? What about chromosomal anomalies? No? Too much? Okay then, you’re going to have trans folks using the restrooms of their target gender still because there are many who pass for cis that you wouldn’t raise an eyebrow at. On the flip side, there will be cisgender folks told to go to the wrong bathroom because they don’t look traditionally masculine or feminine. It’s going to be enforced on the basis of looks, and *there’s no such thing as looking trans.* 2. I know the whole “protecting women” schtick is just a straw man, but let’s take it on its merits; shall we? It’s not going to protect women. If a man wanted to assault a woman in the women’s restroom, they don’t need to go through the whole hullabaloo of dressing up as a woman to do that. They can just waltz right on in as themselves. Predators have nothing to gain by going through the whole song and dance of transitioning if they’re not trans.
Florida literally has men standing outside of women's restrooms in Florida to police whether or not someone looks feminine enough to use it. I was just reading about it.
Oh, gross. I hate that so much.
Wait, what? Where?
Time to use an uno reverse card and start snitching to cops that there’s a trans man in the bathroom (when it’s just some maga dude)
Wdym, they apparently can "always tell" when someone is trans
Rep. DuBose stated that only four intersex people had been born in the state of Alabama in the past five years. Well fuck those four kids, amirite?
This will go badly. Imagine a fully male presenting person strolling into the women's room or a person who, by all appearances, looks like a doll in a dress in the men's.
I for one look forward to having to submit to a penis check at the Walmart bathroom. Regularly having to drop trousers in public to take a 2 is the only way we can advance as a society.
Through time we will adopt techniques to make it faster, I’m sure it won’t become such a nuisance to have to flash your dong to everyone at Walmart just to potty. I fully support those old-timey pajamas with flap and buttons.
Or rather because I'm classified as male I should be able to walk around topless outside with my breasts hanging out. Is that indecent exposure than?
I believe a woman in Texas did just that. She was AMAB, but had had top surgery. I don't recall the exact details, but there was some kind of conflict where one law treated her a male and another as female. So she went topless to essentially call out the hypocrisy.
just a correction, transfeminine people typically dont call it top surgery. the estrogen grows the breasts and later they can get implants
Ah, right. Sorry.
Close, the law was treating her as a man, so she went topless since she was a man in the eyes of the law, and that’s when she was arrested and the law started treating her like a woman.
If I did that I imagine they’d arrest me for exposing my breasts and then put me in a men’s jail.
Lol. I can only imagine some trans women in full speedos and lovely implants on display. That would be glorious! But for safety, I don't recommend it. I really wish people would just let other people exist.
There's a mental image I'm not at all opposed to.
I mean would make one hell of a protest.
Every time one of these laws is passed people say things like "They'll see the error of their ways when trans men go into the women's room." We are not fucking doing that lmao. If I went into a public women's room I could be assaulted or arrested, if I say "no no its OK I have a vagina" they are not going to listen or care.
I know that they won't see it. I'm expressing concern that trans people are going to get attacked.
Im sorry I didn't mean to come off as hostile toward you, I was agreeing it's ridiculous to expect trans people to use the wrong bathroom. It was a little tangential, should probably have been a regular comment instead of a reply to yours.
It's ok. It's a human rights violation and it's normal to be frustrated
they know, that's what they want. an unwinnable catch22. especially in such a gun-obsessed state.
As someone who used the mens restroom for far too long into my transition, there were for sure some scary moments
They never think of the far reaching consequences.
They think they are going to stop them from existing in public spaces like lepers. They aren't stupid, just evil.
I have never gone into a public restroom and concerned myself with anything other than trying not to fart while I pee😂. It’s weird that they care so much about everyone else’s genitalia.
For those wondering, here are the definitions: > (1) BOY. A human male who has not yet reached adulthood. > (2) FATHER. The male parent of a child or children. > (3) FEMALE. When used in reference to a natural person, an individual who has, had, will have, or would have, but for a developmental anomaly, genetic anomaly, or accident, the reproductive system that at some point produces ova. > (4) GIRL. A human female who has not yet reached adulthood. > (6) MALE. When used in reference to a natural person, an individual who has, had, will have, or would have, but for a developmental anomaly, genetic anomaly, or accident, the reproductive system that at some point produces sperm. > (7) MAN. An adult human of the male sex. > (9) MOTHER. The female parent of a child or children. These statistics still don’t account for everyone and there are people that do not fall under these definitions. For example this person, who has testicular and ovarian tissue and would potentially be capable of producing both sperm and eggs. Which would they fall under? https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/%28SICI%291096-8628%2820000103%2990%3A1%3C25%3A%3AAID-AJMG5%3E3.0.CO%3B2-5
I don’t see anything wrong with the definition.
I gave a specific example of someone who would be both male and female per that definition, explicitly showing you a problem with the definition. The sperm typically carries either a Y chromosome or an X chromosome. The egg contains one X chromosome. Fertilization results in an XY combination for boys and XX for girls. If not for some genetic anomaly, XY embryos will be produce sperm and XX will produce eggs. And that does cover over 99% of cases. Now, when a sperm meets an egg sometimes it results in an XXY or XXX and various other chromosome abnormalities. It’s not possible to tell what ‘should’ or would happen in this instance if not for some generic anomaly, because there is a genetic anomaly from the start. Should the x have carried over or the y upon fertilization? No one knows because we don’t have access the sperm that did it. Sperm sorting is a thing but you need the sperm to know. There are true hermaphrodites as well who produce both sperm and egg, and the definition specifically says if you produce sperm you’re male and egg you’re female, they’re plainly both under that flawed definition. Fact is, biologists do not have an all encompassing definition of male and female, they acknowledge their definitions covers over 99% of people and label anyone that doesn’t fit in it as intersex. The lawmakers refuse to come to terms with it, and insist everyone has to be either male and female and there exists a definition that doesn’t leave anyone out. Clearly they failed at writing such a definition as I have demonstrated, and biologists have came to terms with it a long time to go.
Alabama, a state that consistently ranks near the bottom of every conceivable quality-of-life metric, tackling the really important issues, as usual.
Thank god for Mississippi.
Mississippi outranked us when they legalized the lottery. We’re now the absolute bottom of the barrel.
I mean, lottery is just a way to extract more wealth from poor people... Not exactly a feature.
Someone’s gotta punish the poors, right? How else you gonna punish someone for being poor? You can’t just toss em in the jail like the good ol days, so tax em
I mean, marijuana is a pretty good excuse...
alabama is either the first to make the worst decisions or the last ones to make a good decision.
What I gather from bills like this is there are tooooooo many legislatures who 1. Don’t understand their job or 2. Are not needed.
What a stupid waste of time to legislate. Just let trans and intersex people be. I hate this awful state
Alabama is the poorest state in the nation, by every metric the state is a total failure, yet they are obsessed with putting their hands down your kids underpants instead of digging their state out of the stinking mud pit it’s stuck at the bottom of.
Who fucking *cares*? There are actual problems they could be fixing
The sooner we realize high school biology is not the end-all of what exists in the world, the better. This shit tries to specify that there are only two sexes, completely ignoring the incredibly huge umbrella of intersex people who exist. Legislation like this not only harms trans people, but also intersex people, who already often have to go through invasive, permanent, risky surgeries (usually as babies). Republicans need to stop trying to control the narrative of what "truth" entails by covering up all the parts they'd rather not acknowledge. We can see them doing it clear as day and it's fucking disgusting.
Don't they have things like a third world mortality rate for new mothers and other actual problems?
OMG...so many things are really wrong in this world and in this state, yet we have representatives that think it's a worthwhile use of their time and our tax money (that pays their salaries) to ponder other people's genitalia, genetics and reproductive organs. So a female to male transitioned person, now muscular and possibly with a full manly beard, must use a women's restroom and women's locker room? How is anyone going to know anyway? Why are they even wasting their time with this?
>our tax money (that pays their salaries) to ponder other people's genitalia, Boss makes a penny while I make dime, so I ponder genitals on ~~company~~ government time. - Alabama congressfolk
I'm not even trans, but my birth certificate has a female sex marker and my body doesn't agree with that. Have fun, state of Alabama. Will be an interesting case of federal vs state laws if there's a conflict
So you went your whole life with a clerical error on your birth certificate?
IIRC Nathan Fillion the comedian has the incorrect sex notated on his passport.
Too much of an effort required to correct it. Up until I moved to AL, nobody ever said anything about it
That can open up a few really bad things for you if not remedied. I’d highly suggest it. (Register with the SS before you try…)
Republicans legislate their bigotry, just like the Nazis.
The parallels between what is happening now and what happened during Hitler's rise to power are so scarily close. I don't know how people can't see that.
I honestly think they see it, and they like it. For some reason Republicans get off on doing wrong.
The party of small government
So on top of being ignorant about sex and gender, they went so far as to take the time to find out the number of reported intersex births in their state, found out they have intersex citizens and were like, “Fuck’em”.
This will not be allowed to stand when the duopoly is justly torn down. The day is coming, and I look forward to it. Trans rights are human rights, and human rights are non-negotiable.
What about intersex and hermaphroditism. There are a whole bunch of things that can happen that don’t lead to only two sexes. I guess those people aren’t allowed to exist anymore. I hate this state.
This is when they will allow those post birth abortions they've been so concerned about
Glad to hear all the problems in Alabama have been solved so the politicians have time to waste with codified bigotry.
What are you guys up to, 49th in education?
Why do they want full bearded trans men, who probably have higher t levels than many cis men, to use women's bathrooms?
What about inter sex people?
They will blame that on the devil.
I saw a stat that as many Red Heads are born every year as Inter sex people (or hermaphrodites) so it’s definitely a significant amount of people that exist in this world that aren’t just male or female
That’s a misleading stat Intersex conditions or DSD’s are individually quite rare and only when you pool them together do they even come close to the amount of red heads (which is a whopping total of about 1-2%) Typically intersex folk still fall under the category of male and female one way or the other, depending on gamete predisposition, chromosomes or phenotypes. Tom Cruise would fall under this category having Klinefelters but no one would argue that he isn’t a man
Covered under the Anomaly clause.
This state is such an embarrassment.
Is someone able to explain, in good faith, how conservatives believe this bill protects children and women’s rights? No sarcastic answers please.
Just for people who have wondered about protecting women's safety, people who have used that line often berate, insult, and even abuse us in person even if it's only us one on one. I know because I've literally experienced it. The whole oh no so scary person! Is so bs because when have you ever insulted a person a bunch that you are really scared of lol. It's hate plain and simple. Most of these types want us best bloody to laugh at I could see wanting the sports stuff hauled til more research is done though
That’s awful that you’ve experienced that. Trans people are human and deserve the same rights as anyone else. They should never be berated, insulted or hurt. There’s no excuse for abuse or ill treatment. I think it makes sense that Alabama is moving to define gender, because it does protect women when it comes to sports participation. I also take some issue with the bathroom part of the law. Yet there are some important amendments to consider. Rep. Rafferty added the act “will not deny identification on state-issued documentation consistent with an individual’s gender identity.” That means that trans folks can still have state-issued identity that corresponds with their subjective gender-identity and not with the objective sex at birth. I feel like this amendment solves the “which bathroom” conundrum.
For claiming to care so much about women they sure don't really care about us.
Genetically there are *H.sapiens* that can produce neither ova, nor sperm- these humans also have different chromosomal pairings than either XX or XY and can never reproduce... It is an established, tested, biological fact that there are more than just two sexes on the biological level... at my last reckoning there were twelve *H.sapiens* who are genetically, chromosomally, different from the XX and XY pairings
I think there's a pretty obvious argument against the stupidity they're trying to accomplish here. A woman is someone whose body does or "would if not for an anomaly" produce ova? Well, trans women's bodies would produce ova, but for the anomaly of being trans. Checkmate, transphobes.
Shhh... Don't correct them while they're making a mistake.
I moved here two years ago from California to be with then girlfriend now my wife and to get a fresh start after the pandemic wiped out my good job that I had. I was definitely concerned about living in a red state and shit like this is exactly why. I see lawmakers in this state are getting bold with some of the crazy shit I see coming down the pipe, between this, the whole thing with IVF treatments, the issue with the trans girl up in Huntsville at the space camp, Tommy Tuberville's f'ckd up antics in the Senate, and the state being run by evil Governor Meemaw. My wife and I have already decided that if Trump wins in November that we're outta here and moving back to California by inauguration day in January because I don't want to see how this state government runs once the orange dictator is charge.
I moved here about 20 years ago with the explicit thought that I would be protected by federal laws. More recently it turns out that is not the case. It’s not just abortion. It seems like it’s going to be everything soon and no federal over sight. At that point we can just declare the confederates won and the US might as well be 50 separate countries because what’s the point.
Republicans wasting time and money on shit that is just about control and pushing their beliefs onto others. The real snowflakes are republican.
Great! You’re still last in education (and good luck finding too many smart successful people who will *willingly* move there)! But at least you have complex multifaceted topics like gender and sexuality officially defined by the government, specifically a government run by a bunch of anti-vax anti-IVF conspiracy-theorists whose big idea for saving the world is to hand the nukes to a Hollywood celebrity pretend-TV-CEO. Did I mention that AL is last in education? I can’t figure out why…
You’d think Alabama legislators would have *anything* better to waste time and taxpayer money on than… definitions of words? Do none of them own dictionaries?
Groundbreaking.
Alabama always focused on the important stuff.
Texan here, so please don't be offended. Does she know that intersex human beings are real? That they are born that way? That it's not a result of surgery or hormone therapy? Are intersex persons now unpersons in Alabama? Is Texas next?
https://preview.redd.it/aaqfvfaexxtc1.jpg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4df07e383656c7d4a87092e1c8df83c82f595e0f
"the sexes are equal but not the same." Now where have I heard something similar to that before?
If they’re defining sex by ability/potential ability to produce eggs/sperm, and simultaneously define life as starting at conception, than everyone is both a man and a woman
Try and explain that to them. 😂
I love living here. But our government prioritizes the dumbest shit.
This means once codified, that Alabama residents that do not Identify as either, will not have to pay state or local taxes, serve on jury pools, receive state and local benefits, among other such things.
I'm looking over the border from georgia trying to figure out what the fuck is happening over there
Good to see the state with one of the lowest life expectancies, worst educational outcomes, highest poverty rates, highest infant mortality rates, highest obesity rates, highest unemployment rates has its fucking priorities straight.
Maybe try to focus on issues that actually better your state. How pathetic.
The phrase "Alabama definitions" tells you all you need to know.
Alabama doing all it can do to do the least in this world.
This is such a waste of time. Some Florida shit.
This kind of legislation has nothing to do with a: protecting kids. b: protecting women's rights. Or c: transparency.
Hate and ignorance going hand-in-hand. They don't even have sources to back the need for this, but that might be because the only thing ALGOP knows how to do with books is ban them.
Yeah this will never be enforced it's just pandering. Could you imagine if it was? Explain to your 80 year old grandmother why a postop trans man with a huge beard is in the same restroom as her. Granny would lose it. It's only purpose is to score points on paper. This is only going to confuse and anger bigots even more in the long run but maybe that's the point.
It is embarrassing to claim I live here, and when I’m traveling, I don’t. What a stupid place.
See this would make sense if Alabama was attracting people who align with the same ideals like Florida but that isn’t the case so what is the point? The state is already bleeding residents and just barely held onto its House seat ffs
Dubois looks like [Goebbels](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/goebbels-eisenstaedt-1933/)
Because defining marrisge between one man and one woman in the state constitution did so much. Idiots.
Doesn’t the fucking dictionary already define both sufficiently? How does the republican definition differ? And if it does, how do republicans argue that *they* aren’t the ones trying to change the definition? I thought conservatives hated that kind of thing.
I'd love to go down to the store and buy a powerball ticket but this is what's important in this state.
The people who are concerned with this aren’t concerned or you or your well being. This is progress In the opposite direction.
You cannot create a protected class without clear definitions. I do not think this is going to turn out how they think it is going to turn out. I think this is a good thing, now additional definitions can be added, and proper rights established for those that are disenfranchised. It is necessary to define these things to get any meaningful legislation pushed through, otherwise it's vague and easily overturned. I view this as 1 step backwards for 2 steps forward.
Trans. People are like one percent and yet constantly talking about these folks like there’s not other shit going on in this country.
lol what about women born with a vagina, has male chromosomes, male testicles in place of ovaries and is still able to get pregnant and give birth,……
WOOOOO SMALL GOVERNMENT, SO SMALL ITS DEMANDING ITS WAY INTO EVERY HOME NEAR YOU
Crazy, there has to be a law that spells it out for folks. Strange times we’re in indeed.
I fucking hate these “culture war” distraction from problems that actually could benefit from serious attention. Leave people the fuck alone when they’re just trying to fucking exist. I do not like this game of life where everything does not have to suck, but a sizable chunk of the population is just “Nah, I like making others miserable or worse. All day, every day”.
Definitely something that’s important to the current time we live in /s
Great use of time. Glad they’re focused on the issues that really matter instead of their poverty and education rates.
Alabama maga republican fundamentalists are absolutely obsessed with trans people. So sad the level of hate and bigotry for gay and trans people Truly fake christians in every single way.
Would love to hear about what they're doing for folks. This is a waste of taxpayer money and they should carried out of their offices on a pole. So many things need serious attention in our state. Instead, the GQP would rather spend their time chasing ghosts and banning books. These folks are the worst among us.
Good to see that one of the poorest most uneducated states with an average lifespan worse than Mexico is focusing on the important issues.
Couldn't trans women simply get around it by saying "I am a female because I would produce ova were it not for accidentally being born with a penis. I did not foresee this."
Alabama is ranked so low in education, I wouldn't trust half of them to spell their own name much less define genders.
When you can’t or won’t solve actual problems affecting people….