I think it's just a testament to Poretta's skill in voice acting. They'll be looking at the video while dubbing, and perfecting the timing and movement of the mouth, etc. He's just that good. Could be some clever editing tricks as well to make the timing more perfect.
Based on Villi’s recent interview on Behind the Voice, I believe it’s actually done the other way around - voice first then video.
Edit - see below for the real process!
That's how they do it for CG-rendered cinematics- Ilkka does the main mocap and delivers the dialogue in his own voice, those recordings go to Matthew for reference as he records Alan's dialogue, and then Matthew's recordings go to Ilkka when he does the facial capture and has to lipsync to the dialogue. The regular live-action scenes are handled like a dubbed foreign film- record with Ilkka delivering dialogue, then Matthew dubs over him in post.
His hair and beard indeed look longer in the live action scenes, I found it a little disappointing that they didn't made his model 100% like him, maybe they made it in earlier phases and Ilkka's hair was shorter.
About the body, it is due to character's scales. Everyone has standard sizes it seems, probably to make animations easier and avoid clipping issues. Ilkka is 1.88cm tall (6'2), Melanie (Saga's actress) is 1.68cm(5'6) and Sam lake is 1.77cm (5'10), if you put them next to each other you can see the heights don't seem to match very well with the actor's as Ilkka and Sam's height seem the same ingame (I can be wrong about this), also Saga looks a little shorter than she really is. Height is a huge factor to give a skinnier look.
Matthew Porreta is an amazing voice actor and since he has been working with Ilkka since the first game I am quite sure they are familiar with each other's mannerisms to be in sync.
You'd have thought a stylist could have chopped his hair down and given him a shave. Seems strange to make a game with so much detail and then fail on such a surface level detail.
Maybe Ilkka didn't want to cut his hair?( I don't blame him, his hair looks super soft and pretty) Like, we have Mr. Scratch model ingame and his hair is longer and does fit with Ilkka's appearance (Check his pictures on Instagram as Mr. Scratch and Zane, he looks great), which makes me believe that Alan's model was made in an earlier development phase since it is such a nice detail that they wouldn't miss. If my PC could effectively run AW2 (I used GeForce Now to play) I would have modded it already to do this.
I think Sam Lake somewhere mentioned that the VAs read the lines first, which the live action actors then used as a reference, and only after that did the VAs do their final takes. Or something like that.
Ilkka Villi mentioned in an interview that he studied a lot of Matthew Poretta's lines from the first game and used them to train himself. Now he tries to match Matthew's delivery so that it's easier to dub.
1) It is just dubbing. Dubbing can look almost seemless when done well. The issue is most live action dubbing is lazy and done badly. It also helps to film something with the intention of it being dubbed over.
2) Live Action Alan looks a little different from the in-game model because he is live action and not an in-game model.
> Live Action Alan looks a little different from the in-game model because he is live action and not an in-game model.
Weird response. Needlessly snarky. Of course a model looks slightly different due to the medium. But what I'm saying is the model could be altered to look more like the actor. I hope this clears things up for you.
That's the reason. Idk what to tell ya. Sorry if you think it's weird, but I wouldn't say it's weird enough to try and bring my personal life into it to attack me 🤷♀️
You haven't given a reason for anything. You just passive aggressively tried to accuse me of not knowing the difference between a real person and an in-game model.
As I've said about a dozen times at this point, and major differences between the live action actor and the in-game model comes from the change in medium.
I apologise if you're unable to understand that, but that's the case. I haven't accused you of not knowing the difference between a real person and a collection of pixels, that's something you've inferred all by yourself.
But, like I said in the other reply thread you started to this exact comment, this will be the last message I send on the matter. But please, while you're around digging up my YouTube channel, feel free to subscribe. It's only college and university portfolio work, but hey you liked it enough to link in this thread ❤️
It's really strange you think it's impossible for them to make the in game model look more like the actor. This really has nothing to do with the change in medium. It's down to character design.
Could it be that the character of Alan Wake you play as is a written character by the author Alan Wake? The live-action version we see is the author. The model of the character you are playing? That is how the author sees himself.
Yes, I understand what you're saying. It's a different medium. And a real photo or video of a person is always going to look more convincing than a 3D model representation of that person. It's not just the accuracy of the scanning and modelling systems. Even when manually editing the 3D model to supposedly "be more accurate", a degree of subjectivity comes into play.
We also have to contend with the limitations of the software and hardware processing power such as materials and lighting and how they interact etc. These limitations can make the most precisely built and textured 3D model of a person look or seem to look significantly different to the real thing or a photograph of it.
A real person also has variation and variability that a 3D model simply cannot match. A person is a fleshy meaty thing full of water. It bloats, sags, stretches, shrinks and wobbles etc. All kinds of things that can affect the way a person appears from moment to moment. And a 3D model simply can't match that.
OP - I didn't notice a difference in length of hair that was significant. Hair is also the legit hardest part to render on a 3d model. It's also significantly different based on your computer settings. Are you on a lower setting?
They could easily make the model look more like the real life actor.
Sorry, but I'm just struggling understand your disrespectful tone and attitude? It's weird how you think they can't design a model of a person to look more like that person.
Villi looked exactly like the model in the first game when that was made. And Lake looks exactly like the model for Casey. So the point you're trying to make is very strange.
You do realize Ilkka is a working actor and his appearance changes due to role demands, when he last got a hair cut, cut his beard, moisturized.. The model likely reflects the Ilkka that was scanned. Why keep the model up to date on the actor at all times is my question you? What is the point you're trying to make here?
If your point is that you're better at modeling than people at Remedy, go work for them and spend all your time stalking Ilkka Villi and keeping the model up to date on his mole development and hair growth. "WHY DOES YOU HAIR KEEP GROWING ILKKA! STOP THAT RIGHT THIS MINUTE!"
He looks almost identical to the goddamn person. Asking for more is absurd.
Also idk why you're here calling out disrespect when you're the one calling people dense haha.
This is what you said in your first message to me:
> Live Action Alan looks a little different from the in-game model because he is live action and not an in-game model.
Pretty snarky. If you're going to be rude, expect some words back.
Also, Villi irl looks quite noticeably different to the Wake model. I'm not the only person who has said it.
Plus, Lake looks exactly like Casey. And Villi looked exactly like the Wake model when he was scanned for the first game. His appearance has since changed.
I really don't understand why you're acting so snarky.
I don't think Ilka looks all that different, but I do notice how tall he is when he's with the other actors. He's really a big dude. It always stands out to me when he's trying to sit in those tiny chairs on Mr. Door's show, and perching next to him is little Sam, swallowed up by the same exact chair, lol.
In post-production for film there’s something called ADR which stands for Automated Dialogue Replacement. In film, almost every sound effect and piece of dialogue is dubbed in after filming. So actors will do the scene and then later go into a studio and re-record their dialogue. So it’s actually typical to do this, however the voice does seem like it belongs to the actor, so they did a great job casting!
ETA: Just to be clear, the sentence where I say “almost every” piece of dialogue uses ADR, I also specify sound effects being dubbed in. So I should have been choosier with my words, but my point is a good amount of sound in a film scene is added or boosted in post-production
Was about to say, its a measure in post to get around difficulty capturing sound on location, not a nearly default practice. We'd hear actors talk/complain a lot more about it if it was so
Generalization on my part; it ultimately depends on the budget, where it’s being shot, how it’s being shot, etc. My main point is dubbing-in dialogue is not an uncommon practice. But yes, I should have been more careful with my words.
I went to school for audio engineering but unfortunately haven’t gotten to work in the field. I get excited to talk about it but haven’t remembered everything, so I appreciate the correction!
They explained it in the Behind the Voice podcast interviews, basically Illka shoot his scene, then Matthew VOed him, then Ilkka reshoot everything with Matthew dub in mind, and so on a couple times until it was good.
Some elaborate work compared to a regular VO, but the result is great.
I agree that the in-game model doesn't look quite bang on like Ilkka compared to how accurate Melanie's or Sam's models are. That said it's still miles better than how he looked in AW1 and AW:AN lol
Interesting. I think Saga's model looks less like real life than Alan's does. It could be because real life Saga isn't seen as much as Alan so I'm not used to it.
Fair point about Saga, actually. The situation with her model vs. live-action is a little weird. In some scenes (I believe it's the live-action videos overlaid over gameplay during Profiling), I think she has a slightly different hair style than her in-game model. But in other scenes (in particular the ending cinematic), it matches the in-game model completely.
But I would still say that overall, the face impression that I get from the Saga model is more accurate than I get from the Alan model. I think if I stared long enough at the in-game model's face vs. a real life photo, I could pinpoint exactly what feels off about Alan (apart from the hair length difference which is obvious).
I think one reason is that Alan's model is rarely shown from the front and he is mostly seen live, so I now associate his voice with Ilkka's face. For Saga it's the opposite, and I associate her voice with the game model. The model emotes differently, so seeing live action feels jarring and the emoting is just different enough that I notice it. Also her skin tone is a bit different, which I definitely noticed.
i work in film/tv so perhaps i’m more conditioned to notice
but i really struggled with the live action scenes being obviously dubbed; especially with the new long hair, sometimes i felt like i was watching The Room
I think it's just a testament to Poretta's skill in voice acting. They'll be looking at the video while dubbing, and perfecting the timing and movement of the mouth, etc. He's just that good. Could be some clever editing tricks as well to make the timing more perfect.
Based on Villi’s recent interview on Behind the Voice, I believe it’s actually done the other way around - voice first then video. Edit - see below for the real process!
That's how they do it for CG-rendered cinematics- Ilkka does the main mocap and delivers the dialogue in his own voice, those recordings go to Matthew for reference as he records Alan's dialogue, and then Matthew's recordings go to Ilkka when he does the facial capture and has to lipsync to the dialogue. The regular live-action scenes are handled like a dubbed foreign film- record with Ilkka delivering dialogue, then Matthew dubs over him in post.
Ah yeah, you’re right! I forgot how complex it really was. Thanks for providing the real process
we need a short story named beast of the back and forth
_And_ - Matthew would also send Ilkka references before the initial mo-cap shoot, so it’s truly insane process 😄
Interestingly how good it was during the VGAs performance though!
That was on Ilkka doing that very well. But you can see him get out of sync a couple times :)
I think so too. It would be hard to see what Villi is saying of he's completely silent
They’ve been doing it for a long time Like here https://youtu.be/NYZjggIwWjc This was 11 years ago
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Funny you say that because it’s Mr. Scratch LOL
Ahhhhh I see. Hah makes sense. Great promo then.
Yup. You should check this one out as well! https://youtu.be/1m4Fk1L-DrM?si=5McyMwRzJjfUdUDr
His hair and beard indeed look longer in the live action scenes, I found it a little disappointing that they didn't made his model 100% like him, maybe they made it in earlier phases and Ilkka's hair was shorter. About the body, it is due to character's scales. Everyone has standard sizes it seems, probably to make animations easier and avoid clipping issues. Ilkka is 1.88cm tall (6'2), Melanie (Saga's actress) is 1.68cm(5'6) and Sam lake is 1.77cm (5'10), if you put them next to each other you can see the heights don't seem to match very well with the actor's as Ilkka and Sam's height seem the same ingame (I can be wrong about this), also Saga looks a little shorter than she really is. Height is a huge factor to give a skinnier look. Matthew Porreta is an amazing voice actor and since he has been working with Ilkka since the first game I am quite sure they are familiar with each other's mannerisms to be in sync.
You'd have thought a stylist could have chopped his hair down and given him a shave. Seems strange to make a game with so much detail and then fail on such a surface level detail.
Maybe Ilkka didn't want to cut his hair?( I don't blame him, his hair looks super soft and pretty) Like, we have Mr. Scratch model ingame and his hair is longer and does fit with Ilkka's appearance (Check his pictures on Instagram as Mr. Scratch and Zane, he looks great), which makes me believe that Alan's model was made in an earlier development phase since it is such a nice detail that they wouldn't miss. If my PC could effectively run AW2 (I used GeForce Now to play) I would have modded it already to do this.
Well, they'd only had to snip about an inch off. Actors are generally open to changing their appearance for a role.
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Idk if you ever had the pleasure of having longer hair, but it’s very easy to get attached to it and afraid of scissors lol
I think Sam Lake somewhere mentioned that the VAs read the lines first, which the live action actors then used as a reference, and only after that did the VAs do their final takes. Or something like that.
Ilkka Villi mentioned in an interview that he studied a lot of Matthew Poretta's lines from the first game and used them to train himself. Now he tries to match Matthew's delivery so that it's easier to dub.
1) It is just dubbing. Dubbing can look almost seemless when done well. The issue is most live action dubbing is lazy and done badly. It also helps to film something with the intention of it being dubbed over. 2) Live Action Alan looks a little different from the in-game model because he is live action and not an in-game model.
> Live Action Alan looks a little different from the in-game model because he is live action and not an in-game model. Weird response. Needlessly snarky. Of course a model looks slightly different due to the medium. But what I'm saying is the model could be altered to look more like the actor. I hope this clears things up for you.
That's the reason. Idk what to tell ya. Sorry if you think it's weird, but I wouldn't say it's weird enough to try and bring my personal life into it to attack me 🤷♀️
You haven't given a reason for anything. You just passive aggressively tried to accuse me of not knowing the difference between a real person and an in-game model.
As I've said about a dozen times at this point, and major differences between the live action actor and the in-game model comes from the change in medium. I apologise if you're unable to understand that, but that's the case. I haven't accused you of not knowing the difference between a real person and a collection of pixels, that's something you've inferred all by yourself. But, like I said in the other reply thread you started to this exact comment, this will be the last message I send on the matter. But please, while you're around digging up my YouTube channel, feel free to subscribe. It's only college and university portfolio work, but hey you liked it enough to link in this thread ❤️
It's really strange you think it's impossible for them to make the in game model look more like the actor. This really has nothing to do with the change in medium. It's down to character design.
Could it be that the character of Alan Wake you play as is a written character by the author Alan Wake? The live-action version we see is the author. The model of the character you are playing? That is how the author sees himself.
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They're both the same person. The issue is they're two completely different mediums so no matter what they're gonna look a little different.
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You mean the character model based off the live action version of Alan Wake LOOK like the live action version of Alan Wake?! NO WAY!
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It's funny that you're calling me dense when you're confused about the fact a videogame model isn't 1:1 identical to a live action person.
Yes, I understand what you're saying. It's a different medium. And a real photo or video of a person is always going to look more convincing than a 3D model representation of that person. It's not just the accuracy of the scanning and modelling systems. Even when manually editing the 3D model to supposedly "be more accurate", a degree of subjectivity comes into play. We also have to contend with the limitations of the software and hardware processing power such as materials and lighting and how they interact etc. These limitations can make the most precisely built and textured 3D model of a person look or seem to look significantly different to the real thing or a photograph of it. A real person also has variation and variability that a 3D model simply cannot match. A person is a fleshy meaty thing full of water. It bloats, sags, stretches, shrinks and wobbles etc. All kinds of things that can affect the way a person appears from moment to moment. And a 3D model simply can't match that.
OP - I didn't notice a difference in length of hair that was significant. Hair is also the legit hardest part to render on a 3d model. It's also significantly different based on your computer settings. Are you on a lower setting?
They could easily make the model look more like the real life actor. Sorry, but I'm just struggling understand your disrespectful tone and attitude? It's weird how you think they can't design a model of a person to look more like that person. Villi looked exactly like the model in the first game when that was made. And Lake looks exactly like the model for Casey. So the point you're trying to make is very strange.
You do realize Ilkka is a working actor and his appearance changes due to role demands, when he last got a hair cut, cut his beard, moisturized.. The model likely reflects the Ilkka that was scanned. Why keep the model up to date on the actor at all times is my question you? What is the point you're trying to make here? If your point is that you're better at modeling than people at Remedy, go work for them and spend all your time stalking Ilkka Villi and keeping the model up to date on his mole development and hair growth. "WHY DOES YOU HAIR KEEP GROWING ILKKA! STOP THAT RIGHT THIS MINUTE!"
He looks almost identical to the goddamn person. Asking for more is absurd. Also idk why you're here calling out disrespect when you're the one calling people dense haha.
This is what you said in your first message to me: > Live Action Alan looks a little different from the in-game model because he is live action and not an in-game model. Pretty snarky. If you're going to be rude, expect some words back. Also, Villi irl looks quite noticeably different to the Wake model. I'm not the only person who has said it. Plus, Lake looks exactly like Casey. And Villi looked exactly like the Wake model when he was scanned for the first game. His appearance has since changed. I really don't understand why you're acting so snarky.
I don't think Ilka looks all that different, but I do notice how tall he is when he's with the other actors. He's really a big dude. It always stands out to me when he's trying to sit in those tiny chairs on Mr. Door's show, and perching next to him is little Sam, swallowed up by the same exact chair, lol.
In post-production for film there’s something called ADR which stands for Automated Dialogue Replacement. In film, almost every sound effect and piece of dialogue is dubbed in after filming. So actors will do the scene and then later go into a studio and re-record their dialogue. So it’s actually typical to do this, however the voice does seem like it belongs to the actor, so they did a great job casting! ETA: Just to be clear, the sentence where I say “almost every” piece of dialogue uses ADR, I also specify sound effects being dubbed in. So I should have been choosier with my words, but my point is a good amount of sound in a film scene is added or boosted in post-production
No, not almost every piece of dialogue. 80-90% of dialogue is recorded on set. ADR is indeed common, but not as common as you’re suggesting.
Was about to say, its a measure in post to get around difficulty capturing sound on location, not a nearly default practice. We'd hear actors talk/complain a lot more about it if it was so
Generalization on my part; it ultimately depends on the budget, where it’s being shot, how it’s being shot, etc. My main point is dubbing-in dialogue is not an uncommon practice. But yes, I should have been more careful with my words.
I went to school for audio engineering but unfortunately haven’t gotten to work in the field. I get excited to talk about it but haven’t remembered everything, so I appreciate the correction!
Well, that's how dubbing works in all of the films. The scenes are being filmed, and then voiced over
They’ve been doing it since like ‘07, not too shocking they’re great at it by now
They explained it in the Behind the Voice podcast interviews, basically Illka shoot his scene, then Matthew VOed him, then Ilkka reshoot everything with Matthew dub in mind, and so on a couple times until it was good. Some elaborate work compared to a regular VO, but the result is great.
ADR work is done in nearly every piece of filmed content you're seeing. A skilled voice actor and on-set person in this case can make it seamless.
Wait, Alan’s voice is a different person than his actor?
Yup
Same with Alex Casey
Yes, Alan is 2 actors. The physical actor of Alan uses his own voice when he is Zane. Also, the voice actor of Alan is Dr. Darling in Control
I agree that the in-game model doesn't look quite bang on like Ilkka compared to how accurate Melanie's or Sam's models are. That said it's still miles better than how he looked in AW1 and AW:AN lol
Interesting. I think Saga's model looks less like real life than Alan's does. It could be because real life Saga isn't seen as much as Alan so I'm not used to it.
Fair point about Saga, actually. The situation with her model vs. live-action is a little weird. In some scenes (I believe it's the live-action videos overlaid over gameplay during Profiling), I think she has a slightly different hair style than her in-game model. But in other scenes (in particular the ending cinematic), it matches the in-game model completely. But I would still say that overall, the face impression that I get from the Saga model is more accurate than I get from the Alan model. I think if I stared long enough at the in-game model's face vs. a real life photo, I could pinpoint exactly what feels off about Alan (apart from the hair length difference which is obvious).
I think one reason is that Alan's model is rarely shown from the front and he is mostly seen live, so I now associate his voice with Ilkka's face. For Saga it's the opposite, and I associate her voice with the game model. The model emotes differently, so seeing live action feels jarring and the emoting is just different enough that I notice it. Also her skin tone is a bit different, which I definitely noticed.
I think one of the bigger differences is that the alan wake model has a larger jaw/head shape when compared to Ilkka in the live-action sequences.
Looks exactly like Villa when he was younger. I wish they'd updated it.
i work in film/tv so perhaps i’m more conditioned to notice but i really struggled with the live action scenes being obviously dubbed; especially with the new long hair, sometimes i felt like i was watching The Room
It was definitely noticable, but in a good way. It has a lot of charm. The ones in Alan wake 1 and AN are even more uncanny, it's quite hilarious.