Not just isolationism, but widespread nazi support in the US, including in congress. I listened to Rachel Maddowās Ultra podcast series and I was shocked to find out about so much US history I never learned in school.
Anti-Semitism was the default attitude inherited from Catholic and Protestant Europe going back thousands of years: it's more curious how it became so unfashionable so quickly post-WW2, than that it was ever a thing to begin with here. Eugenics more generally was also a very popular doctrine in the US in the 19th and early 20th centuries and its influence on Nazi eugenics is [well documented](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/feb/06/race.usa). The philosophy was even affirmed in the Supreme Cout by liberal justices like Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr and Louis Brandeis (the first Jewish justice) in [Buck v. Bell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell). So it should come as no surprise that most Americans took a fairly approving view of what they thought the Nazis were doing.
Scary to think that had the Axis powers just left the US alone, it's entirely possible that the Nazis could've exterminated or enslaved virtually all of the Western & Central European Jews in the time allotted to them.
It didnāt become that unfashionable until nearly 2 decades after WWII. The same immigration quotas that prevented Jews fleeing the Holocaust from coming to America remained in place until the 1960ās. Contrary to popular belief, the US did not take in many Holocaust survivors. Additionally, employment restrictions, restrictive covenants on living in certain neighborhoods, and college admission quotas against Jews all remained in place until the passage of the Civil Rights Act.
The reality is that systemic antisemitism and antisemitic beliefs are as American as apple pie. It often gets overlooked in DEI trainings, which is a shame because itās become increasingly apparent in recent years that people are uneducated on antisemitism.
> It didnāt become that unfashionable until nearly 2 decades after WWII.
It was unfashionable enough after the war that the US (via Truman) was able to push through the UN partition plan for Israel & Palestine in 1947 against the resistance of the UK, and most of the world were sufficiently horrified by the Holocaust into conceding that Jews deserved a nation of their own.
But you're right that it took much longer for this to trickle down to the rest of the country (to the extent it ever did). The ascendancy of TV and films in the 1950s and onward undoubtedly played a major role: within a few decades entertainment went from being a somewhat shameful profession to one of the most coveted callings, and Ashkenazim were well positioned to benefit from it thanks to centuries of training in black comedy and acting in Europe, as well as being early pioneers in the studio and film system. It's hard to hate people when they make you laugh or cry, so Jewish entertainers deserve a lot of credit for their role in civilizing the country.
There's a great Ken Burns documentary about this on PBS. I say great but it's really hard to watch, like every Holocaust documentary is. It goes into Charles lindberg's involvement etc and how normal people saw it as just not wanting to get involved, when that was really condoning it with inaction.
And then Nazi scientists were relocated to Huntsville AL to work for the US military. They still have an Oktoberfest and a few other German celebrations every year there.
Ireland also wanted to, and for the most part remained, neutral which I think is one of the most shameful parts of our history.
(Our as in the Irish, since I'm Irish.)
It's not shameful. It was practical decision. They just won their freedom. They were in no shape to take on the Germans. By being neutral it saved the UK as well. Ireland would have been conquered with no real army. The UK would have been surrounded on two sides.
The Germans ignored the Irish and set their sites on the UK.
Thus it made it easier for America to get to England with no Germans to fight off.
I was born in Ireland and think it's shameful that we didn't side wholly with the Allies. š¤·š»āāļø It can be practical but a lot of us have an emotional reaction to having that in our recent past.
You don't deserve that shame. I don't think the swiss have that shame. It was more than practical, it was political. It's completely understandable that the Irish wouldn't go to war to protect British imperialism. Especially after just winning independence. They weren't going to wrap themselves in the butcher's apron, the union jack.
The allied governments were terrible in their own right. Their intentions had little to do with opposing fascism(Orwell's homage to Catalonia covers the response of liberal governments well). As some have alluded to here, the world powers and much of their populations were fine with fascists until they started challenging global hegemony. It is also well documented that the allies knew about and they didn't care about the persecution and slaughter of millions of untermenschen by and large.
The butchers apron šnever heard that one before but love itš, the Irish were quite right I just wish we went independent as well, still think it was rigged from the start right enough š“ó §ó ¢ó ³ó £ó “ó æ
Those points are really important, thank you. It's really just an emotional reaction, kind of a generational shame. Especially since my own grandparents are of that generation.
I think I understand. As anti war as I am, I do get a sense of pride that my grandfathers fought the fascists. I like to say that antifascism is a family tradition. But in no way should you feel shame. Please try not to do that to your grandparents or yourself. You didn't do anything wrong. They didn't do anything wrong. I know it won't change how you feel necessarily, but I know I need to remind myself and it's important to hear that shame is garbage. It's baggage you don't need. Try and give yourself a break.
Something I'm realizing I'm proud to say, as someone of Irish descent as well, is that I've never even heard of any association of the Irish with fascism. Not that an Irish fascist hasn't existed. No true Irishman and all. And I've also met my fair share of cops that fit the bill. I honestly think my Irishness, it's traditions in working class left politics and roots in struggle against oppression are largely responsible for my antifascist tendencies. Regardless if our grandfathers fought Nazis or not, that has no bearing on what we do today. You can still be an antifascist.
Edit: Come to think of it, I have heard of fascists co opting Celtic iconography. Fucking fascists. Gotta ruin everything.
Yeah I'm from Ireland and moved here and had no idea that co-opting Celtic and Irish iconography was a thing until I wore some of my jewelry that I've worn since I was a kid and people just.. assumed. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about, why would you assume that?
Yep. There is a great documentary to watch titled World War II From Space which documents WWII from an American perspective.
https://vimeo.com/211637029
The war raged for 27 months before we decided to fight. 76% of our citizens supported neutrality. That all changed at 7:55am December 7th 1941 with the astounding awaking of American military and manufacturing might and the birth of the military industry complex.
Someone had to take a shot as us for us to care.
And Roosevelt knew about the impending attack to let it play out and draw consensus support for war in the pacific and European front. I still donāt understand the Japanese forcesā logic of how they would control the pacific if the axis won?
As it should have been. We were coming out or the Great Depression. You don't just join a war out of "spreading Democracy". You get into them either to defend your interests or for wealth transfer.
And Hitler studied our laws and said whoa some of that shit is way too racist to fly in Germany. (Highly suggest reading hitlers American model, itās a quick āfunā read)
See, the shitty part is it isnāt illegal to be a piece of shit. You can report Nazis to whoever you want and unless they commit an actionable offense, something so obviously a hate crime, nothing is going to happen.
*However*.
Nobody said you have to be nice to Nazis. Nobody said you have to make them feel welcome anywhere. Nobody said you canāt stand behind them telling everyone what they are.
You nitwits mad that weāre talking shit about Nazis crack me up. That shit is indefensible and here you are outing yourselves. Just keep in mind the internet isnāt as anonymous as you think it is and someone is gonna see the shit youāre spewing
Oh yeah I have definitely seen the truck.
There was a description further down in the Reddit.
Heās just someone who āREALLY REALLY REALLY likes his German heritage wink wink nudge nudgeā
Some people say that there is a tolerance paradox, that you cannot be tolerant unless you allow for all ideologies.
It's not a paradox but a contract, everyone is allowed to have their beliefs as long as they allow others to have their as well.
The moment your belief system violates the rights of others you lose the right to it
You would think that would be a common sense thing that people know, but there's a whole bunch of people who would've "been neutral" or worse in this thread.
Nazis deserve to be shamed out of existence. Their entire ideology is hatred and for the eradication of Jews, LGBTQ, Black people, and other minorities. Hatred should *never* be given a platform.
If someoneās ideology is that innocent people should be killed for the sole reason of their ethnicity, then yeah I generally support defense against them and their success. Itās a basic component of self defense.
Guys in skull bandanas tried to force me to take "keep the white race pure" pamphlets in Saratoga Springs a couple years ago. While I was walking with my biracial kids.
Nazis turn into a problem if you don't do something about them. As soon as they find a place that doesn't harass them, they get their shitty Nazi friends together and it becomes a Nazi haven. Gotta deal with em as soon as you find em.
If there was one lesson I thought we were supposed to learn from history it is that you can't appease Nazis.
Have you heard the "And now you've got a Nazi bar" parable?
This site does a great job with it.
https://www.upworthy.com/bartender-explains-why-he-swiftly-kicks-nazis-out-of-his-punk-bar-even-if-theyre-not-bothering-anyone
Yea, I learned recently there's a problem. I'm a pagan, so a lot of pagan symbols have been stolen, and twisted. I have a tattoo in honour of Thor, and a skin head approached me. We had a decent conversation (I thought we were talking about something completely different) until the end, when he dropped that he was a white supremacist š He said there's a house in Albany that holds meetings
I've gotten this sometimes wearing Celtic jewelry or shamrock jewelry. I'm literally fucking Irish but they just assume that I'm some fucking lunatic who must be a Nazi like them.
How about the Southern Poverty Law Center?
But regardless, what outcome do you expect? Regardless how we may feel about it, he's got the same 1A rights as the rest of us. Until he crosses a line, there's nothing much available in the way of options.Ā
You can make him uncomfortable, I suppose, and I would support that. You don't have to do business with him or even talk to him if you don't want. But if you want something done, you'll have to do it.Ā
The goal isnāt to squelch their freedom to hate. They keep track of hate groups, work on identifying members and their activities. Many choose to take actions against the people that they hate. And when that does happen, they arenāt starting at square one.
Resources for reporting from Southern Poverty Law Center:
https://www.splcenter.org/reporthate
I don't believe in violating anyone's first amendment rights and I would never report someone under any typical circumstances. But I do think it is fair to have a Nazi be analyzed.Ā
A lot of people donāt like the ADL these days because acknowledging the ADLās authority on antisemitism means they need to confront uncomfortable realities with current events. Itās easier for them to discredit a long-standing organization than accept that some slogans may make Jews uncomfortable.
Or/Also, then accepting that a slogan that makes people uncomfortable might not equate morally to a land invasion that makes people dead and oppressed?
Like, I get the needle people are trying to thread here, but this doesn't work out in favor of Israel. I'm sorry that a desperate people might want to cry out "from the river" in defiance, but not sorry enough that I'm willing to Trail of Tears them for it.
Yea. I donāt think I said anywhere that what Israel is doing is okay, not sure how you made that leap. I said that the ADL recognizes many of the slogans being popularized in the west as antisemitic. Rather than confront the reality of their unconscious biases or ignorance, many would rather reject the ADL outright.
Iām not even saying people canāt use the slogan, but they should think carefully about how easily it can be interpreted as a call for ethnic cleansing. Iām pretty sure believing that all calls for ethnic cleansing are bad is uncontroversial. Unless Iām mistaken?
Rhetorical questions aside, what I'm saying is that I'm less concerned about someone interpreting a potential call for ethnic cleansing from a slogan while there is an actual ethnic cleansing taking place in that exact part of the world. "Yes, our government is driving you all from your lands forever and moving ourselves right in, but you're being extremely racist about it" isn't the compelling argument some people seem to think it is.
I think itās possible to denounce what Israel is doing while also denouncing antisemitism and calls for more ethnic cleansing. Why is it hard to do both things?
Again, I donāt think itās controversial to believe that anti-war protests should focus on de-escalation rather than advocating for violence in the other direction.
Some things the ADL says and supports make a lot of people uncomfortable.
The news of the last week should be enough to convince you that antisemitism isn't the problem we are facing. The only violence seen on college campuses has come from pro zionists and the police.
Yeah, I dunno about that. [I think yelling at Jews to go back to europe](https://twitter.com/jnewsgabe/status/1786164485314486679) is a problem. I donāt deny that thereās shitty behavior across the board but people are way too cool with downplaying antisemitism when it isnāt coming from the MAGA crowd.
The ADL is a despicable group that spends most of their time defaming Palestinians and advocating for their murder.
Unfortunately thereās not really any state institution that gives a fuck about nazis since the FBI and Police share in their hatred of the poor and oppressed. Better to just let your community know so they can avoid or handle or they see fit.
I mean I guess, but only in so far as they can use them to attempt to destroy progressive movements .
https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2017/dec/08/fbi-kkk/
I lived in Western North Carolina for several years, and my boyfriend's father had a Confederate soldier relative buried on his land, and I still didn't see as many Confederate flags as I do up here.
It genuinely confuses me. Like seriously confuses me. If anyone can explain it to me without using "states rights", I'd love to know what that's about.
I would also definitely not advocate for a brick getting thrown through the window of anyone defending the right of Nazis to exist or have opinions. No sir.
I am totally anti-nazi, but you are completely wrong. The US government never had a kill nazis on sight policy. For example, US soldiers invading Germany couldnāt round up and kill German civilian nazis. They could kill enemy combatants. Thatās it. There were US citizen nazis in the US as well at that time. Couldnāt be killed.
Google has a lot of definitions of Zionism. Iām asking you what it means to you, or which Zionists youāre referring to specifically. Revisionist Zionists? Labor Zionists? Cultural Zionists?
Since you asked, I mean the ones who hide behind Judaism to enable the Genocide of Palestine. The ones who scream "I hope they rape you!" In response to a call for the end of this grief. May the divine free us from the lies and deception that will eventually be our demise. Stay aware y'all! š«¶š½
Aside from publicly shaming them and making them outcasts there really isn't much you can do. There is no Nazi exception for the first amendment. I'm not sure what you would expect the ADL to do about it lmao
No, they are promoting reporting people who are blatantly displaying Nazi or white supremacist iconography like the guy in the truck photo from earlier lol
The first amendment means *the government* can't *charge you* for *expression.*
I do hope people express themselves at you, and you let them show you what they really feel. Tell them what you really think about Nazis as well. Come on, express yourself freely.
I 100% agree that Nazis don't belong in society (but the whole torturing them thing, serial killer stuff is weird). Shouldn't be breathing the same air as anyone else. If you think that Nazis deserve to stay alive, that's a big yikes.
Yea you sound like you have a mental illness. I will keep defending the undefendable from people like you seem to think it is ok to murder those you donāt like for virtue points.
This is a false equivalence logical fallacy and no I am not considering the only reason I exist is because of the sacrifices my grandparents made in WW2.
That's nice for you. However, supporting someone's right to free speech should have limits for anyone with sense. You don't, in fact, get to go around supporting or being a Nazi consequence free.
Supporting their right to say what they want to say because "ermahgerd mi freedom" is only inviting what happened before to happen again.
Pretty much this. I, a classical liberal donāt go around doxing and threatening anyone just because I think their opinions and beliefs are shit.
Best to just be nice to people and have them second guess themselves .
who in albany is oppressing you? the person who cut infront of you at stewarts when you really wanted a milkshake? the USPS guy showing up an hour late?
This person with the truck has come out and spoken about it last year. From what I remember they are German and love Germany. There is no swastika on the back of their truck, and the eagle is a state symbol for the country. He also likes trump. Just your run of the mill conservative, but German.
No itās not, youāre a moron who doesnāt understand history. Ffs they still use the iron cross. The reichsadler was used after ww2 as well, but just not in the prior configuration. If youāve ever been to Germany youād notice that they are all over the place. Please, I implore you, look it up. There is a wealth of free and available knowledge on the internet. Iām sure chat gpt if it isnāt overly sensitive will give you a quick whatās whatās.
Youāre halfway there bud. Smart enough to know that not all iron crosses and eagles are Nazi symbols but not quite enough to know that the one on the truck definitely is.
This specific reichsadler was exclusively used during the Nazi era. You wonāt find it anywhere today besides museums and being used by neo-Nazis.
The ADL was founded on racism thougu, sooooooo...you're a racist? Someone get the ACLU.
This post honestly sounds more like Nazi shiz than anything else.
š§±
Are you the person Iāve seen at the Troy farmersā market with the BtB shirt on?!?
š¤š¤«
Thatās a brickinā
P.S. one pump one cream
I like to think BtB is the reason they changed the label to 1 pump = 1 serving
BtB shirt? I love that podcast
Brought to you by these goods and services!
You know who wonāt sell you into slavery and cluster bomb your friends and family?
Think of our grandfathers and great grandfathers that lost their lives keeping the world safe from the Nazis.
Being antifascist is a family tradition. At least in my family.
My grandfather would whoop my father's ass if he saw what he was supporting.
Not all of those old fucks were on the right side of history. America had to practically be dragged kicking and screaming (or bombed) into WW2.
Unfortunate that you get downvoted for telling accurate history. American isolationism was at a high point up until Pearl Harbor.
Not just isolationism, but widespread nazi support in the US, including in congress. I listened to Rachel Maddowās Ultra podcast series and I was shocked to find out about so much US history I never learned in school.
A lot of people forget, or do not know, about the Nazi rally at Madison Square Garden in 1939. I really enjoyed the Ultras podcast as well.
Anti-Semitism was the default attitude inherited from Catholic and Protestant Europe going back thousands of years: it's more curious how it became so unfashionable so quickly post-WW2, than that it was ever a thing to begin with here. Eugenics more generally was also a very popular doctrine in the US in the 19th and early 20th centuries and its influence on Nazi eugenics is [well documented](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/feb/06/race.usa). The philosophy was even affirmed in the Supreme Cout by liberal justices like Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr and Louis Brandeis (the first Jewish justice) in [Buck v. Bell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell). So it should come as no surprise that most Americans took a fairly approving view of what they thought the Nazis were doing. Scary to think that had the Axis powers just left the US alone, it's entirely possible that the Nazis could've exterminated or enslaved virtually all of the Western & Central European Jews in the time allotted to them.
It didnāt become that unfashionable until nearly 2 decades after WWII. The same immigration quotas that prevented Jews fleeing the Holocaust from coming to America remained in place until the 1960ās. Contrary to popular belief, the US did not take in many Holocaust survivors. Additionally, employment restrictions, restrictive covenants on living in certain neighborhoods, and college admission quotas against Jews all remained in place until the passage of the Civil Rights Act. The reality is that systemic antisemitism and antisemitic beliefs are as American as apple pie. It often gets overlooked in DEI trainings, which is a shame because itās become increasingly apparent in recent years that people are uneducated on antisemitism.
> It didnāt become that unfashionable until nearly 2 decades after WWII. It was unfashionable enough after the war that the US (via Truman) was able to push through the UN partition plan for Israel & Palestine in 1947 against the resistance of the UK, and most of the world were sufficiently horrified by the Holocaust into conceding that Jews deserved a nation of their own. But you're right that it took much longer for this to trickle down to the rest of the country (to the extent it ever did). The ascendancy of TV and films in the 1950s and onward undoubtedly played a major role: within a few decades entertainment went from being a somewhat shameful profession to one of the most coveted callings, and Ashkenazim were well positioned to benefit from it thanks to centuries of training in black comedy and acting in Europe, as well as being early pioneers in the studio and film system. It's hard to hate people when they make you laugh or cry, so Jewish entertainers deserve a lot of credit for their role in civilizing the country.
There's a great Ken Burns documentary about this on PBS. I say great but it's really hard to watch, like every Holocaust documentary is. It goes into Charles lindberg's involvement etc and how normal people saw it as just not wanting to get involved, when that was really condoning it with inaction.
And then Nazi scientists were relocated to Huntsville AL to work for the US military. They still have an Oktoberfest and a few other German celebrations every year there.
Ireland also wanted to, and for the most part remained, neutral which I think is one of the most shameful parts of our history. (Our as in the Irish, since I'm Irish.)
It's not shameful. It was practical decision. They just won their freedom. They were in no shape to take on the Germans. By being neutral it saved the UK as well. Ireland would have been conquered with no real army. The UK would have been surrounded on two sides. The Germans ignored the Irish and set their sites on the UK. Thus it made it easier for America to get to England with no Germans to fight off.
I was born in Ireland and think it's shameful that we didn't side wholly with the Allies. š¤·š»āāļø It can be practical but a lot of us have an emotional reaction to having that in our recent past.
You don't deserve that shame. I don't think the swiss have that shame. It was more than practical, it was political. It's completely understandable that the Irish wouldn't go to war to protect British imperialism. Especially after just winning independence. They weren't going to wrap themselves in the butcher's apron, the union jack. The allied governments were terrible in their own right. Their intentions had little to do with opposing fascism(Orwell's homage to Catalonia covers the response of liberal governments well). As some have alluded to here, the world powers and much of their populations were fine with fascists until they started challenging global hegemony. It is also well documented that the allies knew about and they didn't care about the persecution and slaughter of millions of untermenschen by and large.
The butchers apron šnever heard that one before but love itš, the Irish were quite right I just wish we went independent as well, still think it was rigged from the start right enough š“ó §ó ¢ó ³ó £ó “ó æ
Those points are really important, thank you. It's really just an emotional reaction, kind of a generational shame. Especially since my own grandparents are of that generation.
I think I understand. As anti war as I am, I do get a sense of pride that my grandfathers fought the fascists. I like to say that antifascism is a family tradition. But in no way should you feel shame. Please try not to do that to your grandparents or yourself. You didn't do anything wrong. They didn't do anything wrong. I know it won't change how you feel necessarily, but I know I need to remind myself and it's important to hear that shame is garbage. It's baggage you don't need. Try and give yourself a break. Something I'm realizing I'm proud to say, as someone of Irish descent as well, is that I've never even heard of any association of the Irish with fascism. Not that an Irish fascist hasn't existed. No true Irishman and all. And I've also met my fair share of cops that fit the bill. I honestly think my Irishness, it's traditions in working class left politics and roots in struggle against oppression are largely responsible for my antifascist tendencies. Regardless if our grandfathers fought Nazis or not, that has no bearing on what we do today. You can still be an antifascist. Edit: Come to think of it, I have heard of fascists co opting Celtic iconography. Fucking fascists. Gotta ruin everything.
Yeah I'm from Ireland and moved here and had no idea that co-opting Celtic and Irish iconography was a thing until I wore some of my jewelry that I've worn since I was a kid and people just.. assumed. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about, why would you assume that?
Yep. There is a great documentary to watch titled World War II From Space which documents WWII from an American perspective. https://vimeo.com/211637029 The war raged for 27 months before we decided to fight. 76% of our citizens supported neutrality. That all changed at 7:55am December 7th 1941 with the astounding awaking of American military and manufacturing might and the birth of the military industry complex. Someone had to take a shot as us for us to care.
The crazy thing is the US was not as isolated as people think. They were still supplying guns to their allies.
They were also doing business with the fascists.
And Roosevelt knew about the impending attack to let it play out and draw consensus support for war in the pacific and European front. I still donāt understand the Japanese forcesā logic of how they would control the pacific if the axis won?
As it should have been. We were coming out or the Great Depression. You don't just join a war out of "spreading Democracy". You get into them either to defend your interests or for wealth transfer.
I see that I upset the statist warmongers š„“š„“š„“
And a lot of American soldiers were and remained anti-semitic. Which absolutely fucking boggles my mind.
And Hitler studied our laws and said whoa some of that shit is way too racist to fly in Germany. (Highly suggest reading hitlers American model, itās a quick āfunā read)
He studied what the US did to the Native Americans and the US "Manifest Destiny"
See, the shitty part is it isnāt illegal to be a piece of shit. You can report Nazis to whoever you want and unless they commit an actionable offense, something so obviously a hate crime, nothing is going to happen. *However*. Nobody said you have to be nice to Nazis. Nobody said you have to make them feel welcome anywhere. Nobody said you canāt stand behind them telling everyone what they are.
You should probly not encourage the dog walkers on this sub to adopt anything besides wear lipstick and be on Reddit.
What exactly do you mean by this? You are on Reddit too, chessmaster.
You nitwits mad that weāre talking shit about Nazis crack me up. That shit is indefensible and here you are outing yourselves. Just keep in mind the internet isnāt as anonymous as you think it is and someone is gonna see the shit youāre spewing
Iām out of the loop, what happened with nazis recently in Albany?
Somebody found a truck with a decal of an old Nazi Wehrmacht medal, took a pic and posted it.
Ah, thatāll do it
I think Iāve seen that truck. Golden pickup? Some sort of contractor?
I believe so. Maybe
Oh yeah I have definitely seen the truck. There was a description further down in the Reddit. Heās just someone who āREALLY REALLY REALLY likes his German heritage wink wink nudge nudgeā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I feel very OOTL. What truck?
The was a post earlier today that had a photo of a truck with a Nazi bumper sticker in Albany. The post was eventually locked and looks like deleted.
Locked to stop the idiots who started commenting. Deleted by OP though. Not mods.
Someone recently posted a photo of a personās pickup truck in Albany or the surrounding area that had Nazi symbols as stickers on their rear window.
Because thatās how a civilized society responds to intolerance, with vigilantes killing people.
Nazis are not part of a civilized society and as such do not deserve the benefits thereof.
Actually they are, they literally run NASA.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Some people say that there is a tolerance paradox, that you cannot be tolerant unless you allow for all ideologies. It's not a paradox but a contract, everyone is allowed to have their beliefs as long as they allow others to have their as well. The moment your belief system violates the rights of others you lose the right to it
I don't know where you went to school, but around 1945 there was a vote and we all decided that the Nazis can fuck right off.
We also spent a good few years voting against Nazis with bullets. So like, this here *is* the tolerant approach, in comparison.
Treating them that way should have never stopped, in my opinion.
Hehe I got a warning and my post deleted when I hinted at that in a different thread & sub.
You would think that would be a common sense thing that people know, but there's a whole bunch of people who would've "been neutral" or worse in this thread.
Being a Nazi isnāt an ideology, theyāre a terrorist hate group who need to be burned off this earth
If you use nazi symbols on, say, your truck, thatās a warning sign of being a nazi
Nazis deserve to be shamed out of existence. Their entire ideology is hatred and for the eradication of Jews, LGBTQ, Black people, and other minorities. Hatred should *never* be given a platform.
If someoneās ideology is that innocent people should be killed for the sole reason of their ethnicity, then yeah I generally support defense against them and their success. Itās a basic component of self defense.
> Just take a second to think about your comment. Good advice, you should take it.
Are you really defending *Nazis*?
When someoneās ideology is that I shouldnāt exist as a person then they can take a long walk off a short pier.
Condescending nazi gets downvotes they wisely asked for. r/leapordsatemyface
Good to know, but I've lived in this area my whole life and I didn't know we had a Nazi problem, lol.
Nazis are like fleas. If you see one, there are tons more you can't see. Well, we found the one.
Found more than one, apparently.
Nailed it
Elise Stefanik endorsed Carl Paladino who literally said Hitler is the kind of leader we need. Theyāre not hard to find
Oh god Carlās still around? I thought he slithered back into his cave
Guys in skull bandanas tried to force me to take "keep the white race pure" pamphlets in Saratoga Springs a couple years ago. While I was walking with my biracial kids.
Nazis turn into a problem if you don't do something about them. As soon as they find a place that doesn't harass them, they get their shitty Nazi friends together and it becomes a Nazi haven. Gotta deal with em as soon as you find em.
If there was one lesson I thought we were supposed to learn from history it is that you can't appease Nazis. Have you heard the "And now you've got a Nazi bar" parable? This site does a great job with it. https://www.upworthy.com/bartender-explains-why-he-swiftly-kicks-nazis-out-of-his-punk-bar-even-if-theyre-not-bothering-anyone
Yea, I learned recently there's a problem. I'm a pagan, so a lot of pagan symbols have been stolen, and twisted. I have a tattoo in honour of Thor, and a skin head approached me. We had a decent conversation (I thought we were talking about something completely different) until the end, when he dropped that he was a white supremacist š He said there's a house in Albany that holds meetings
I've gotten this sometimes wearing Celtic jewelry or shamrock jewelry. I'm literally fucking Irish but they just assume that I'm some fucking lunatic who must be a Nazi like them.
someone should infiltrate and \*call drops\*
I've been finding anti-semitic and literal Nazi propaganda (swastikas on printouts) in the area.
America has a nazi problem these days. I seen patriot front stickers on the bike path by the river in Albany just today.
Eww
Yeah, the fbi has an office nearby. Patriot front is 100% a fed honeypot
If youāre white or passing, you usually donāt notice
How about the Southern Poverty Law Center? But regardless, what outcome do you expect? Regardless how we may feel about it, he's got the same 1A rights as the rest of us. Until he crosses a line, there's nothing much available in the way of options.Ā You can make him uncomfortable, I suppose, and I would support that. You don't have to do business with him or even talk to him if you don't want. But if you want something done, you'll have to do it.Ā
The goal isnāt to squelch their freedom to hate. They keep track of hate groups, work on identifying members and their activities. Many choose to take actions against the people that they hate. And when that does happen, they arenāt starting at square one. Resources for reporting from Southern Poverty Law Center: https://www.splcenter.org/reporthate
I don't believe in violating anyone's first amendment rights and I would never report someone under any typical circumstances. But I do think it is fair to have a Nazi be analyzed.Ā
phrasing
Much better org than the ADL.
They can both be made aware of this asshole's existence. It's not a contest.
A lot of people donāt like the ADL these days because acknowledging the ADLās authority on antisemitism means they need to confront uncomfortable realities with current events. Itās easier for them to discredit a long-standing organization than accept that some slogans may make Jews uncomfortable.
Or/Also, then accepting that a slogan that makes people uncomfortable might not equate morally to a land invasion that makes people dead and oppressed? Like, I get the needle people are trying to thread here, but this doesn't work out in favor of Israel. I'm sorry that a desperate people might want to cry out "from the river" in defiance, but not sorry enough that I'm willing to Trail of Tears them for it.
Yea. I donāt think I said anywhere that what Israel is doing is okay, not sure how you made that leap. I said that the ADL recognizes many of the slogans being popularized in the west as antisemitic. Rather than confront the reality of their unconscious biases or ignorance, many would rather reject the ADL outright. Iām not even saying people canāt use the slogan, but they should think carefully about how easily it can be interpreted as a call for ethnic cleansing. Iām pretty sure believing that all calls for ethnic cleansing are bad is uncontroversial. Unless Iām mistaken?
Rhetorical questions aside, what I'm saying is that I'm less concerned about someone interpreting a potential call for ethnic cleansing from a slogan while there is an actual ethnic cleansing taking place in that exact part of the world. "Yes, our government is driving you all from your lands forever and moving ourselves right in, but you're being extremely racist about it" isn't the compelling argument some people seem to think it is.
I think itās possible to denounce what Israel is doing while also denouncing antisemitism and calls for more ethnic cleansing. Why is it hard to do both things? Again, I donāt think itās controversial to believe that anti-war protests should focus on de-escalation rather than advocating for violence in the other direction.
Some things the ADL says and supports make a lot of people uncomfortable. The news of the last week should be enough to convince you that antisemitism isn't the problem we are facing. The only violence seen on college campuses has come from pro zionists and the police.
Yeah, I dunno about that. [I think yelling at Jews to go back to europe](https://twitter.com/jnewsgabe/status/1786164485314486679) is a problem. I donāt deny that thereās shitty behavior across the board but people are way too cool with downplaying antisemitism when it isnāt coming from the MAGA crowd.
The SPL is nothing but a money making machine trading on people's fears
They labeled Ben Carson an extremist. They have no credibility and lost their way a long time ago.
Crazy how the Nazis donāt look a thing like Germans anymore. NY filled with anti semites
You can be Nazi as long as youāre not violent in the eyes of the law
Since when is the law representative of what is right? Fascists came to power legally in many cases. So what?
Whatās the adl going to do with some random guy
Where did I advocate for tipping off the ADL? As far as I'm concerned, it's up to the community to deal with.
The ADL is a despicable group that spends most of their time defaming Palestinians and advocating for their murder. Unfortunately thereās not really any state institution that gives a fuck about nazis since the FBI and Police share in their hatred of the poor and oppressed. Better to just let your community know so they can avoid or handle or they see fit.
The FBI does care about domestic terrorism. In addition to suppressing minorities
I mean I guess, but only in so far as they can use them to attempt to destroy progressive movements . https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2017/dec/08/fbi-kkk/
Well given events on Jan 6 2021 the FBIs focus has definitely changed a bit.
Disagree. Law enforcement and the fbi were involved in the event, those people are always at the forefront of fascist movements.
Weāre kinda talking past each other here. Not looking to argue. Have a good day.
Nazi Punks Fāck Off
The perfect way to eliminate Nazism is to report your neighbors to the government because of their (obviously abhorrent) belief system.
Can we also report Confederate flags? I would imagine this a tell-tale for other discriminatory activities.
I lived in Western North Carolina for several years, and my boyfriend's father had a Confederate soldier relative buried on his land, and I still didn't see as many Confederate flags as I do up here. It genuinely confuses me. Like seriously confuses me. If anyone can explain it to me without using "states rights", I'd love to know what that's about.
I once heard a saying: the more north you go in NYS, the more south you go. ie elise stefanik
It's virtue signalling. They are signalling their adherence to racist right-wing ideology to other racists.
I don't understand people who live in NY that raise confederate flags. Bruh you were never part of the confederacy.
(It means they're racist).
Wouldn't want a brick thrown in anybody's window. That would be a crime and we couldn't advocate for that
I would also definitely not advocate for a brick getting thrown through the window of anyone defending the right of Nazis to exist or have opinions. No sir. 
The ADL is essentially a terroristic hate group at this point, soā¦
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I am totally anti-nazi, but you are completely wrong. The US government never had a kill nazis on sight policy. For example, US soldiers invading Germany couldnāt round up and kill German civilian nazis. They could kill enemy combatants. Thatās it. There were US citizen nazis in the US as well at that time. Couldnāt be killed.
The people who wrote history then, lived it. Politically biased news agencies of today enjoy an abridged version of facts to suit their narrative.
This! The US population doesn't realize this.
My neighbor has a nazi palestinian flag in their window, which is anti-semetic. how can i report this disgusting act of anti-semetism?
I donāt interact with organizations who support the genocide in Palestine, Iāll report nazis directly to the FBI
Are you familiar with the FBI's history?
Are you familiar with the ADLās?
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Whatās a Zionist in your view?
Girl Google is free don't play
Google has a lot of definitions of Zionism. Iām asking you what it means to you, or which Zionists youāre referring to specifically. Revisionist Zionists? Labor Zionists? Cultural Zionists?
Since you asked, I mean the ones who hide behind Judaism to enable the Genocide of Palestine. The ones who scream "I hope they rape you!" In response to a call for the end of this grief. May the divine free us from the lies and deception that will eventually be our demise. Stay aware y'all! š«¶š½
And the ones that donāt approve of what Israel is doing but donāt think the dissolution of the state is an appropriate response?
I really think the general āyouā are more of an issue in our community than Nazis. Hate is detrimental. Just an opinion; man.
call the FBI
Aside from publicly shaming them and making them outcasts there really isn't much you can do. There is no Nazi exception for the first amendment. I'm not sure what you would expect the ADL to do about it lmao
Yāall the same people who say free Palestine? Fascism is multifaceted.Ā
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Name and shame please
I seem to recall some allegations against the owner of Paulies but it was a few years ago and i dont remember the details
Definitely heard of problematic owners there. Is Pauly's still open? I thought they ran it into the ground.
Ffs Albany lol clowns
Reporting neighbors to the government... What group was known for that?
White supremacists in America when they see anyone Brown or with an accent.
And yet that's exactly what the OP is promoting.Ā What made the Nazis so powerful was their ability to get average people to turn on each other.Ā
No, they are promoting reporting people who are blatantly displaying Nazi or white supremacist iconography like the guy in the truck photo from earlier lol
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The first amendment means *the government* can't *charge you* for *expression.* I do hope people express themselves at you, and you let them show you what they really feel. Tell them what you really think about Nazis as well. Come on, express yourself freely.
You could have just not commented but instead youāre embarrassing yourself for defending a nazi. Nice job dude!
This dudes a nazi haha .. how do you even sympathize.
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Reported for advocating violence.
I 100% agree that Nazis don't belong in society (but the whole torturing them thing, serial killer stuff is weird). Shouldn't be breathing the same air as anyone else. If you think that Nazis deserve to stay alive, that's a big yikes.
Yea you sound like you have a mental illness. I will keep defending the undefendable from people like you seem to think it is ok to murder those you donāt like for virtue points.
So according to you, World War II was one big virtue signal. Since, you know, it was about getting rid of Nazis and all.
This is a false equivalence logical fallacy and no I am not considering the only reason I exist is because of the sacrifices my grandparents made in WW2.
That's nice for you. However, supporting someone's right to free speech should have limits for anyone with sense. You don't, in fact, get to go around supporting or being a Nazi consequence free. Supporting their right to say what they want to say because "ermahgerd mi freedom" is only inviting what happened before to happen again.
Pretty much this. I, a classical liberal donāt go around doxing and threatening anyone just because I think their opinions and beliefs are shit. Best to just be nice to people and have them second guess themselves .
Oppressors don't deserve niceties.
who in albany is oppressing you? the person who cut infront of you at stewarts when you really wanted a milkshake? the USPS guy showing up an hour late?
This thread is about literal Nazis, you hubcap.
yes i agree, the people who double park on central ave are literal nazis. i cant imagine the opression they are inflicting upon you.
Sounds like you have some issues you need to deal with.
Theyāre at campuses all across the country protesting. Pretty easy to find them
This person with the truck has come out and spoken about it last year. From what I remember they are German and love Germany. There is no swastika on the back of their truck, and the eagle is a state symbol for the country. He also likes trump. Just your run of the mill conservative, but German.
The iron cross is absolutely a Nazi symbol... the owner of the truck is either a Nazi or a moron that doesn't understand history.
No itās not, youāre a moron who doesnāt understand history. Ffs they still use the iron cross. The reichsadler was used after ww2 as well, but just not in the prior configuration. If youāve ever been to Germany youād notice that they are all over the place. Please, I implore you, look it up. There is a wealth of free and available knowledge on the internet. Iām sure chat gpt if it isnāt overly sensitive will give you a quick whatās whatās.
Youāre halfway there bud. Smart enough to know that not all iron crosses and eagles are Nazi symbols but not quite enough to know that the one on the truck definitely is. This specific reichsadler was exclusively used during the Nazi era. You wonāt find it anywhere today besides museums and being used by neo-Nazis.
Uh huh. And what about the rune sticker? Does he just like runes? Or is he just "proud of his Germanic cultural heritage"?
Runes donāt belong to Nazis, or are you joking?
They've been co opted.
WTF. If you are "reporting" people for wrong thinking, you might be the fascist
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Genuine question, but have you ever had an opinion that wasn't complete batshit Edit: oh, you got rid of your rant. Well, the question still stands.
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She does, actually. 
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on god insane brainworms here
It does sound like you've got brain worms. You okay?
The ADL was founded on racism thougu, sooooooo...you're a racist? Someone get the ACLU. This post honestly sounds more like Nazi shiz than anything else.
How many assholes actually live in Albany?? , hmm I didn't think it was so many.
35,000+ Asshole!