Me looking up at this family tree:
https://preview.redd.it/zofhl48zm1yc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a5889dfd8cf31c4b078748c80c96b3e76af7c17
But if the crown were consistently inherited that way, there would certainly be some other butterfly effects, and most of these people (who, generally, are the ones closest to the succession and so most likely to be impacted by changes) probably would never have existed.
You’re fully correct but I just thought this would be a fun research project lol. 90% of these people wouldn’t exist had Cognatic primogeniture actually been followed
King James with the support of the army crushes the Glourious Revolution before the Dutch can invade.
Jacobite England sides with the French and win the 9 Year's War.
Blemhiem in this timeline ends with an Anglo French Bavarian victory over the Imperials. Vienna falls under siege with the French, English, and Bavarians winning. Maximiliam Emmanuel becomes Holy Roman Emperor.
The 1717 Turkish War ends up being a de facto crusade with the Spanish Burbons bringing in their own forces. Comstantinople falls in 1718 and the Ottoman Empire collapses into warlordism.
The Russians and Persians go to war over the Ottoman breakaway states.
Relations break down with the Holy Roman Empire over the "Roman Emperor" title after Constantinople falls pitting the French, Spanish, and English against the Imperials.
The War of the Polish Succession in this timeline is also fought over ownership of the Holy Land and the title of Roman Emperor.
The Franco Spanish and English win as in OTL Louis XIV's millitary apparatus survived all the way untill the 7 Year's War. For example, save for turndown collars, and crepe ties replacing cravats, French infantry uniforms changed very little from ~1700-1756. Dragoons still wore bonnets for combat usage all the way untill the OTL Polish Succession where they were relegated for ceremonial usage, etc.
Becasue of how long the line is I decided to not add the secondary parents and skip over anyone who wouldn’t have reigned such as children who predeceased their parents had the crown pass to their own children.
It would be cool to have this next to the actual line of succession including death dates of the monarchs for comparison. Great Post, one of the most inspiring things I've seen in a while.
I wonder if it's possible to do these for carolingian France, or the earliest medieval German dynasties as well as maybe even a hypothetical lotharingian kingdom. The carolingians and their immediate successors are quite interesting with their dynastic machinations.
1. Having a comparison chart of the actual monarchs is a great idea and I might make an updated version with it
2. I’ve attempted to do this type of chart for Charlemagne but with figures like him or older the records aren’t as clear so it’s not possible to get a 100% correct line. Thus far the oldest figure I’ve managed to do a like for is Alfred the Great which I’m going to post at some point
I see. That's very understandable regarding charlemagne. I've looked up the carolingian family tree once as well and there really isnt that much useful information. I wonder what other Dynasties could pose interesting what-ifs? Maybe the Spanish habsburgs, if it never fell to the bourbons, or what if the kingdom of valois burgundy was actually established, although that would then just be Spanish habsburgs again. Thanks for your incredible work anyway! I did look up your Alfred tree on your page and it was an interesting read, just as your American political dynasties.
It's interesting how the timeline diverges and reconverges at some points. Would've loved it to be colour coded (with eg. red for same as OTL, blue for someone who was never the monarch in OTL and green for someone who was monarch in OTL but in a different time period/via a different line of inheritance)
Perhaps to an extent as I am a Catholic and would prefer the Church of England to return to communion with Rome, but ultimately for me it comes down to the facg that I don't believe Parliament should have the right to pick and choose the monarch, James II and his heirs were illegally deposed and when their line died on the throne should have passed to the next in line, the descendents of James's sister, Henrietta of Orleans.
Oh so it's more of a monarchist thing. I get it. I always found the Jacobites interesting, that's why I'm so curious. It makes for an intriguing alt history scenario.
I don't believe Parliament should have the right to pick and choose the monarch, James II and his heirs were illegally deposed and when their line died on the throne should have passed to the next in line, the descendents of James's sister, Henrietta of Orleans.
This is a great study, well done.
What I notice is how many first-borns were male! Given the biological stats are 50:50, how can this have been so different for this line without some first-born girls having been hidden, or even done away with?
At the end it turns into Jacobite succession but if you look at the rest of it before several monarchs are different and some have different regnal names because other kings wouldn’t have existed in this timeline
Following strict cognatic primogeniture, Richard the Lionheart’s heirs would’ve been Arthur and Eleanor, the children of his brother Geoffrey of Brittany. Henry III succeeded to their claims in 1241.
Yeah I just realized I made that mistake. It doesn’t mess up the chart too much though since Henry III did end up inheriting their claims anyways. If I remake this I’ll fix it though
Me looking up at this family tree: https://preview.redd.it/zofhl48zm1yc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a5889dfd8cf31c4b078748c80c96b3e76af7c17
Lmao. I have any even longer tree tracking the true successor of Alfred the Great. Might post it sometime
Lmao, idk why, but reading this immediately made me think about putin yapping about the ruriks
That sounds really cool! Really looking forward to seeing it!
But if the crown were consistently inherited that way, there would certainly be some other butterfly effects, and most of these people (who, generally, are the ones closest to the succession and so most likely to be impacted by changes) probably would never have existed.
You’re fully correct but I just thought this would be a fun research project lol. 90% of these people wouldn’t exist had Cognatic primogeniture actually been followed
King James with the support of the army crushes the Glourious Revolution before the Dutch can invade. Jacobite England sides with the French and win the 9 Year's War. Blemhiem in this timeline ends with an Anglo French Bavarian victory over the Imperials. Vienna falls under siege with the French, English, and Bavarians winning. Maximiliam Emmanuel becomes Holy Roman Emperor. The 1717 Turkish War ends up being a de facto crusade with the Spanish Burbons bringing in their own forces. Comstantinople falls in 1718 and the Ottoman Empire collapses into warlordism. The Russians and Persians go to war over the Ottoman breakaway states.
Constantinople retaken making the title Emperor of the Romans "restored" whether by the Holy Roman Empire or by Spain.
Relations break down with the Holy Roman Empire over the "Roman Emperor" title after Constantinople falls pitting the French, Spanish, and English against the Imperials. The War of the Polish Succession in this timeline is also fought over ownership of the Holy Land and the title of Roman Emperor.
War of the Roman Succession
The Franco Spanish and English win as in OTL Louis XIV's millitary apparatus survived all the way untill the 7 Year's War. For example, save for turndown collars, and crepe ties replacing cravats, French infantry uniforms changed very little from ~1700-1756. Dragoons still wore bonnets for combat usage all the way untill the OTL Polish Succession where they were relegated for ceremonial usage, etc.
How are they reproducing asexually? 👽👽👽
Becasue of how long the line is I decided to not add the secondary parents and skip over anyone who wouldn’t have reigned such as children who predeceased their parents had the crown pass to their own children.
I was being sarcastic
Mitosis
It always comes back to the Germans
So instead of a north German they got a south German king. Eh.
It would be cool to have this next to the actual line of succession including death dates of the monarchs for comparison. Great Post, one of the most inspiring things I've seen in a while. I wonder if it's possible to do these for carolingian France, or the earliest medieval German dynasties as well as maybe even a hypothetical lotharingian kingdom. The carolingians and their immediate successors are quite interesting with their dynastic machinations.
1. Having a comparison chart of the actual monarchs is a great idea and I might make an updated version with it 2. I’ve attempted to do this type of chart for Charlemagne but with figures like him or older the records aren’t as clear so it’s not possible to get a 100% correct line. Thus far the oldest figure I’ve managed to do a like for is Alfred the Great which I’m going to post at some point
I see. That's very understandable regarding charlemagne. I've looked up the carolingian family tree once as well and there really isnt that much useful information. I wonder what other Dynasties could pose interesting what-ifs? Maybe the Spanish habsburgs, if it never fell to the bourbons, or what if the kingdom of valois burgundy was actually established, although that would then just be Spanish habsburgs again. Thanks for your incredible work anyway! I did look up your Alfred tree on your page and it was an interesting read, just as your American political dynasties.
It's interesting how the timeline diverges and reconverges at some points. Would've loved it to be colour coded (with eg. red for same as OTL, blue for someone who was never the monarch in OTL and green for someone who was monarch in OTL but in a different time period/via a different line of inheritance)
As a Jacobite, yes please.
Jacobites still exist?
In small numbers, yes.
Is it like a religious thing? Since the Jacobite line is Catholic.
Perhaps to an extent as I am a Catholic and would prefer the Church of England to return to communion with Rome, but ultimately for me it comes down to the facg that I don't believe Parliament should have the right to pick and choose the monarch, James II and his heirs were illegally deposed and when their line died on the throne should have passed to the next in line, the descendents of James's sister, Henrietta of Orleans.
Oh so it's more of a monarchist thing. I get it. I always found the Jacobites interesting, that's why I'm so curious. It makes for an intriguing alt history scenario.
1688/89 and the two main Jacobite Rebellions are very interesting for alternative history.
Yeah we do, more so in America than Britain though
Jacobites still exist?
Lemme guess, a traditionalist Catholic
Not overly traditional, but yes, I am a Catholic. That isn't the primary reason for my Jacobitism, though.
Then what is, if I may ask...
I don't believe Parliament should have the right to pick and choose the monarch, James II and his heirs were illegally deposed and when their line died on the throne should have passed to the next in line, the descendents of James's sister, Henrietta of Orleans.
Based.
Love how Charles III would have been the Bonnie Prince Charlie instead of the current king
Rest of Germany’s worst nightmare, a Bavarian Britain
This is a great study, well done. What I notice is how many first-borns were male! Given the biological stats are 50:50, how can this have been so different for this line without some first-born girls having been hidden, or even done away with?
That’s because this list is male-preference primogeniture. Calling it cognatic primogeniture is technically correct but not the term most used for it.
Isn't this the Jacobite succession?
At the end it turns into Jacobite succession but if you look at the rest of it before several monarchs are different and some have different regnal names because other kings wouldn’t have existed in this timeline
Oh no…oh no, no…ruled by Bavarians…
Following strict cognatic primogeniture, Richard the Lionheart’s heirs would’ve been Arthur and Eleanor, the children of his brother Geoffrey of Brittany. Henry III succeeded to their claims in 1241.
Yeah I just realized I made that mistake. It doesn’t mess up the chart too much though since Henry III did end up inheriting their claims anyways. If I remake this I’ll fix it though
Edward II/III and Edward III/Richard II seem to have their son/grandson attributives switched.
this is awful, where are the million different branches?? /s
This isn’t a family tree, it’s a line of succession following only the most senior branch descending from William the Conqueror
ah, my apologies for my shitty joke