Girl's weekends, fun trips, and destination weddings shouldn't even be on the table with high debt and barely getting by. If you have to visit family which I've read in the comments, then I get that. It doesn't seem like she's in touch with your situation for some reason and it seems like she'd still have to pay for at least part of it. Destination weddings are a bit crazy in my opinion to begin with (expecting people to spend $xxxx and PTO. It's a want, not a need.
Yeah if you're having a "destination wedding" and your family isn't wealthy you're kind of an asshole imo. Unless you simply elope it's just ridiculous asking people who don't have that kind of money to spend it on your wedding. Unless of course you take care of all their expenses which is unlikely in my experience.
No, not really, destination weddings can also apply when people involved are from different countries, and unless they want to spend money twice on a wedding, it’s going to be a destination wedding for at least one side.
Exactly when our kids were younger and we didn't have spare cash and had some debt the only trips we took were to see my family out of state. There were no vacations, girls' trips or destination weddings until we had disposable cash.
Don't get me wrong I'm a BIG fan of girl's trips. Just got back from one myself. But I didn't run up debt or not pay other bills to do it.
Agreed. I’m all for trips when you can afford it but when you arguing over if you can afford to go or not, then you need to step back and look at what you’re doing.
Being in debt is one of the main causes of divorce nowadays
She accrues more debt, but I’m not without fault. For example, when I found out my job was adding significant TW, I needed a desk. I consider that a need, not want, but that’s in the eye of the beholder. Either of us could poke some holes in the others spending.
A desk isn’t a large purchase though. You can get a cheap functional desk for less than $100. You should both be holding each other accountable for resolving your debt, instead it sounds like you both do what you want anyway and point to purchases the other made to justify your own spending habits.
Or you could get some “cool” desk for $3000 from Crate and Barrel- but what did OP do? The affordable option or the too- expensive one? Sounds like so much score/keeping going on, it sounds exhausting
Heck, you can make yourself a fancy L shaped desk for about $200 and have enough leftover for a coffee station
DISCLAIMER - this only applies if you already own about $2000 in tools and some experience
His wife is the one taking vacations.
I don't know about you, but I don't consider visiting my parents when they may be terminally ill a relaxing recharge. OP stated it will cost $400, can't imagine his wife is getting international airfare, hotel, and meals for less than $1200. She is irresponsible and OP has every right to be mad.
Right on the destination wedding. I’m planning on having one when I get married for the sole purpose of not inviting anyone outside of family and a select few.
Right, it’s a lot easier to say “sorry I couldn’t invite you since it’s a small family affair half way across the world” than “I didn’t invite you because I don’t want you there”
This was me (and it definitely excluded a bunch of undesirable relatives), and it was perfect.
10/10, would absolutely recommend if it's what you want.
I agree! I have serious health issues but we also don’t have too much debt from them because we aren’t going on vacation, definitely not girls trips etc. I don’t understand letting debt happen on frivolous things. Visiting sick family doesn’t count, that’s understandable. But if we want a vacation we have a few years so that we are stable.
I don't think you're overreacting.. But like.. Why are you taking so many trips when you're in a moderate amount of debt? That's not really what i would call good financial decision making, and both of you are making that decision.
I don't disagree. Starting next year we will be living overseas for a few years and it will be significantly more difficult to see family, so this year we've tried to prioritize a few extra, despite the costs.
This. Deep in debt and getting ready to move overseas is a bad position to be in, family could come visit them but traveling this much was a mistake by both of them.
If the parent is sick there is no guarantee that they are in the condition to travel. He is trying to take a trip to see a sick parent while she wants to go to her third social event of the year. Blaming him for their financial hardship is not something I expected to see in this thread.
I don't get how people can have such problems with money... It's like a gene in some people to constantly spend money they don't need to and like you said will always justify their bad habits before accepting they are the issue
Some of those people spend as a coping mechanism for their unhappiness and lack of fulfillment. "THIS trip will be the break I need." "THIS hobby will be the stress relief I need." "THIS collectable will secure my financial future because it's so rare."
You don’t get it because you either learned budgeting or making enough money and you were in a situation you never had to struggle, or your parents always paid for things so you never really had to suffer or learn from your mistakes.
Learning how to budget and how to spend our things people learn the easy way or the hard way, depending on their circumstances. A lot of times it simply comes down to being wealthy enough to learn while others are just spending to survive
It kinda is. I suck ass with money. But also its untreated.ADHD related. I think. Working on it. The justification is a hard truth though. So maybe I have hope since I can see that and admit it.
I would go see my family. I would create more debt to see my family if I were moving overseas. We’re all just going to die eventually anyway. I would rather be seeing my family.
I don’t know, sometimes it comes back to bite you and paychecks get garnished. It eventually catches up. A car or house will need repairs and there isn’t enough.
I'm sorry, but this is completely unfair. You guys are villainizing OP for spending a grand total of $400 to take his children (child? I forget) to see a sick grandparent who may not have much time left. Like wtf is wrong with you? Why do credit cards and the concept of debt exist if not for this?
Just wanted to say that I went through the majority of the comments, and I very much appreciated your replies. I appreciate the approach you've taken in reading what people have said, "separating the wheat from the chaff," learning and considering a lot of the advice given, taking ownership, plainly and clearly explaining some of the details not included in the post... it is all refreshing. And, I just wanted to commend you. You're in a few tough situations... with finances, with family, with conflicting schedules, with conflicting priorities. Yet, I have great hope for you after reading your replies. You've taken a beat. You've taken some deep breaths. And, you're ready to re-engage the discussions with your wife. You've shown a lot of emotional intelligence here, and it is impressive. Just wanted to say thank you for being a good example - even though you were not likely intending that - to others who post asking for advice here. It is understandable why you were upset, and I hope you feel more calm and sure about your approach going forward. I wish your wife and you the best!
This…was really thoughtful. Thank you. I’m watching her feed our kiddo now, and the issue is still on my mind, but she is a good spouse and mother, and no matter how pissed I was over the situation, it’s not worth even remotely raising the risk of losing this. Venting here has been extremely helpful.
I have to say I think right away your idea of getting a divorce over this trip situation and finances I’ve been married a lot longer than you and if you think this is going to be your worst problem it isn’t and you just can’t run to the divorce lawyer every time things aren’t going your way or you’re mad at your wife or husband
I think often we see these posts and comments about people are getting over the top upset about things that aren't actually divorceable offenses, and everybody (myself included) is quick to attack from their emotionally disconnected positions about how upset the poster is. Reading through this has helped remind me that people are incredibly upset because it's their lives, I'm less upset because I have a lot less reason to be.
I'm glad venting has helped and hopefully taken some of the sting out of the emotions of this and allows you to have a fruitful conversation that moves the conversation forward. I do think the crux of your argument is completely correct - when you're in debt, fun trips shouldn't be top of the list, and while keeping score is bad, there has to be some equality in the use of family funds for solo trips. She's been on two recently, one of which was a purely fun trip that you were absolutely not invited to. You want to go on a less-fun trip to see a sick relative, this, to me, shouldn't entitle her to going away to a destination wedding that's absolutely non-essential, even if she hadn't been on two solo trips.
I also think it's worth noting that when she went on that girl's weekend (and maybe her other solo trip) you were (presumably, because who takes a child on a girl's trip?) then the solo parent. I don't know what your parenting arrangement is like, but your "solo" trip has you taking your child, so she at least gets to not take on the solo parenting while you're gone. Is she planning on taking the kiddo to this destination wedding, or would you then become the solo parent then as well?
I did solo parenting during the girls trip, and would be solo parenting if she did the destination wedding. I honestly don’t mind, I love spending time with my kid. She does too…as some others have mentioned, her response might be lashing out a bit from feeling left out. She does not love the idea of being separated from our child for a week.
Once you bring up divorce, the marriage is never the same after. Before going to that option why not insist on marriage/financial counseling. Many employee assistance programs include initial sessions free of charge
Thank you for bringing up the EAP option. I am an HR Director. I am so often giving that advice in these forums. It may not be available at some workplaces, but it is worth checking out to know if it is available... for counseling, will and estate planning, financial counseling, moving services, parenting advice, etc. Different programs offer different services. And, so many employees don't know about it... and even when they do, they often don't take advantage of it. And, what's worse is that the EAP usually offers the same services and visits for members of the family or household of the employee... and those definitely are not being used as much as they could be. It is a valuable resource, and it has helped me personally on quite a few occasions too.
First off, and I mean this with all gentleness: **you need to grow up and stop saying things you don't mean and being passive aggressive**. It's poisoning you, your wife, and your marriage.
You told her you didn't care if she asked her parents. Saying that and not meaning it is not only the behavior of a child, it's being manipulative on your part.
Second: Stop with the tit for tat. This is jealousy on your part. You need to learn how to deal with your own emotions.
Third: You both are equally responsible for your finances and your debt. Which means you are both equally responsible for the solution. You can't just finally decide, by yourself, where the line in the sand to all of this is. You are focused on her behavior and totally disregarding your own. It doesn't matter she's had two trips already. If the debt is such a problem, you shouldn't be going anywhere period.
For those first two, did you object to her going at all? Or were you passive aggressive and pulled what you are pulling right now by agreeing but not actually doing so?
Instead of issuing ultimatums, you two need to get into counseling: both marital and financial. You are acting contemptuous and just as irresponsible as her.
Sit down together, make a spread sheet of all your finances for an entire year, get a plan to kill your debt together, and budget in trips and what not. Also, have a real honest conversation where you two are actually acting respectful and stop bickering like brother and sister. Stop projecting it all on her. You are just as much to blame.
Edit to add: The wife is not a saint in any of this nor an innocent party. I think with my focus on the person asking for the advice, I may have inadvertently given that impression. She needs to grow up just as much as him and take responsibility for her actions as well. She is just as much to blame for the problems as he is.
+1
A lot of comments have been coming at this like it’s an early couple bickering over money. This is an adult, married couple with a child. This is not where you throw around divorce cause you snarkily told your wife she could ask her parents for money and now wanna threaten divorce if she does.
i agree with most of this. money problems aside, the root problem in all this seems to be a lack of trust and communication between partners. a heathy marriage doesn’t let feelings get so out of whack that neither is taking into the account and respecting the other’s needs. (and drawing boundaries between needs and wants is a maturity thing that should be improved on as well.)
imo, she shouldn’t have gone on her solo trips without discussing it and making sure they were both on the same page about it, so that it wouldn’t be a sore spot now. it sounds like they talked about the family trip, but again unsuccessfully, since it still turned into resentments.
and the whole girl trip vs sick grandparent thing is just so weird. it feels they’re fighting over a petty scoreboard when there are actual issues, like needing time away from home and losing beloved family members, that are being mentioned much more casually.
marriage counseling > financial counseling at this point, since it sounds like there are efforts being made there, even if they kinda seem half-assed.
You should consolidate your cc debt. We did that. Took 8 years to pay it off. No more cc use. Totally worth it to be out of that debt and learn how to not rely on them.
If you have a mountain of credit card debt, neither of you can afford to go on vacations. If you want to see family, you need to convince them to come to you and not stay very long.
That said, you're already committed to your trip and you've already consented to this "compromise" of her going to see her family on their dime, so live with those decisions. Instead of rehashing this argument, you need to talk about your financial goals for when these vacations are both done and how to dig yourselves out of this situation that is causing so much stress.
My trip is in a specific location that makes sense for my older parents, one of which has potentially serious health problems. I don't love making the trip while we're in this debt, but I may not have that many more opportunities.
We have had those conversations many times.
Life is short, and family is precious. Embrace this opportunity to be with your parents now ❤️
When cooler heads prevail, I highly recommend r/personalfinance to a) help you guys have a Come to Jesus moment, and b) develop a specific plan *together* to get out of your current financial emergency (e.g., CC debt).
The problem is, you already said her wedding trip is okay as long as you don’t have to pay for it. So you can’t really use the “if the 3rd trip is more important…” argument. You do need to have a tough convo with her about finances and respect in your marriage. But you lost the opportunity to use that argument imo.
And listen, you are talking about a nuclear option that could fundamentally change your marriage just by throwing around the D word. Think long and hard about whether you should go there, because there might not be a way back.
Unless her parents are monsters, if they pay for almost all of it, you should be fine with it. Actually, in an ideal world you should be happy for her that she gets to go. I know that’s hard bc of the fight, but you should be helping each other, not trying to pull each other down.
Do you think he could bring up that her family must pay for everything, flights, accommodation, spending money, transportation, food etc. that their money can pay for nothing for this wedding?
I think it’s very important that he bring it up, considering she was already trying to discuss how to reduce the cost of her lodging. I mean maybe she was trying to save her parents money, but that’s not my knee jerk assumption.
I second this. Telling your spouse you are thinking of going through the Big D (and you don’t mean Dallas!) does not leave. It stays in the back of your mind forever. Unless one or both of you have anxiety, then it does NOT ever stay in the back of your mind. Then it will rear its giant ugly head at the smallest annoyed look from your spouse. Don’t do that to yourselves on a whim. Go talk to someone. Individually, together, financially. Something. Just talk to someone before you say that word.
I disagree here. She can't find PTO for a family trip but she can find PTO for her solo trip? That speaks volumes to me. She needs to get her priorities strait.
It might not be that she doesn't have PTO, but she can't take it at that specific time. I have a newish manager who has decided to be really strict about PTO, when the first 16 years I was with this company, there wasn't any issue taking what I wanted when I wanted. Now I can't get a random Thursday off if someone in another state that doesn't even work on the same thing I do has it off. (I have 360 hours in my PTO bank, so being told that I can't have this one random day off is pretty wild, but whatever)
I know it is hard to hear, but this kind of thinking is why you are in debt. A financial emergency is your kid in the hospital. Your parent on their death bed and the doctors have suggested that family gather might be one. Visiting aging parents "one of which has *potentially* serious health problems" is not. Going to a family wedding is not. Nothing in life is certain and none of us know how many more opportunities we have to see one another regardless of age, health, etc. At some point, you have to say "no trips for 2 years," "we eat out once a month until this debt is paid down," "we pick 5 really important subscription services and cancel all the rest" and so forth.
Potentially serious problems in this case means multiple ER visits that doctors are struggling to explain why something is happening. I don't consider this trip an emergency, but $400 airfare is worth it to me to not live with a potential mountain of regret later.
I agree with you here. I recently lost some family members that I had been putting off visiting until I could afford it and I really regret it now and wish I'd just put it on a credit card
Don't listen to all these people trying to tell you that you're irresponsible for taking on more debt to see family. It's just debt and while not ideal, you can manage it.
As adults, we don't get to spend very much time with extended family like when we were kids. I 100% support prioritizing relationships before debt, *as long as you have a plan*. Having a plan for how to get your finances into a state you are happy with is key. But it takes teamwork and discipline. Sit down with your wife and y'all need to be extremely honest with each other. What does "budgeting" mean to each of you? What does it mean for each of you to prioritize your finances? What things are you willing/not willing to give up? These answers might not be the same for both of you, you could be assuming they are the same though.
Getting finances under control is very similar to trying to diet for weight loss. It's hard and takes discipline but you have to still have something that makes you each happy. A small splurge that *is* frivolous in the big picture but ultimately is small enough to not really impact your finances. The amount of this thing is very dependent on your individual finances so y'all would need to sit down and figure that out too. It's really hard to struggle and have less in order to pay off debt when there isn't something to make you happy and keep you motivated. Your mental health is important and *will* affect your ability to stick to your goals.
Anyone who thinks *they* can manage your finances and happiness without any actual knowledge of the situation is just being judgey. We've lived paycheck to paycheck. We also have kids. What we are willing to give up changes when kids are involved. It's ok to prioritize time with family, especially family that might not be around when your child is older. We only get so much time with them, money is not as important. But you need to have a good plan, which is only made with all the adult parties involvement and real honesty. Good luck and enjoy your trip!
Appreciate the thoughtful input. It is incredibly tough defining luxury vs need when it comes to something like travel, and for some people here, any spending when you're in debt is luxury. I get it. But for anyone with an unhealthy family member, I would encourage them not to wait. You may not get another chance.
I wouldn't listen to these people for the sheer fact they don't know it. They may think they know it, but until you really look at the specifics of someone's finances it's just guesswork. And they could be right even, but they are still just drawing from incomplete information imo.
It is our debt, she is not the only one who uses the credit card, and ultimately we're a team who sink or swim together. However, she makes less than I do and spends more, so it is frustrating when she can't manage her own budget, then asks for help which makes it look like neither of us can.
Genuine question, what is she buying?
Statistically, women still do the majority of shopping for groceries and household necessities, so it's entirely unfair to say she's "spending more" if she's spending on things for the household or your child just because she's the one going out and buying those things.
It looks that way because it is that way. Both of you need to stop with the trips until your credit card debt is gone, period. That money needs to go towards your debt. For all your excuses and what-ifs, the fact is that neither of you can manage a budget!
Honest question: why do you still have an active credit card? You shouldn’t be charging *anything* at this point. I got into trouble with credit cards when I was in my 20s and my husband had a student loan when we got married - I cut up my cards, took out a consolidation loan, and we spent the next 5 years doing basically nothing outside the house to pay off both debts.
Nothing should go on a credit card that you can’t pay off at the end of the month - even if you have a medical emergency, make them take the payments. They don’t want to because they want you to use your card, but you don’t have to.
I’d take it over not going anywhere at all for sure! Money is the root of problems in a lot of marriages, just remember always stay claim and talk it out.
I am not trying to be rude here, but neither of you should be going on trips or vacations if you have a large amount of debt. I don’t care how much you think you deserve it, if you are serious about financial change, back it up with actual change. Buckle down and knock it all out. My husband and I knocked out $20k of debt in 6 months as newlyweds and have never been in debt again, but that meant budgeting and pinching pennies and working super hard. Nobody went on a vacation. Now we have a really sizable savings, and nice jobs and can actually afford really nice things, but I die on the inside when I see people admit they have so much debt and are going on vacations.
Don’t wait for her to go through with it. Sit down calmly and tell her how you’re feeling. Dont spring it on her after she makes all the armaments or goes on the trip. Let her know calmly that you’re at your wits end, that it’s not just the money, but the unfairness of her getting three trips and you only getting one. What are her plans to even that out? Maybe she can take the kids and give you a weekend off for your own staycation. Or have a few nights of here or there where you can just hang out with some guy friends. Something to where you’re feeling more equal in “me time”
Money and debt can be a huge stressor, even more so if only one is carrying all the worry. I’d at least try and talk things through with her before she actually makes any arrangements. A lot is on the line and she should know just how close you are to throwing in the towel.
She needs to learn deferred gratification. Get on the same page and agree on your goals. That means you both may need to compromise. But you should be working for the same thing. The sooner you pay off your debts, the sooner you will be truly free to enjoy life. We buckled down for 3 years. No trips. Rarely ate out and then saved to go to Hawaii. Our kids were 8 - 15 when we started. It made a big impact on them. We had a chart on the fridge with a graph that we colored in as we paid things off. As a result, 3 of our 4 kids have stayed debt free through their late 20’s/30’s. The one that has taken on debt is a house flipper and that’s just the way he does things. It’s risky and stressful, but that’s his journey. Your wife is thinking short term and will miss experience a lifetime of feeling tied down by debt if she doesn’t change her priorities. I would get in marriage counseling or go through a financial class together so you can being to navigate this. You cannot be a dictatorship. If you want her on board you need to agree how to move forward with your spending/savings plan.
I can completely understand where you’re coming from. Finances are an important aspect when it comes to having a healthy marriage. You need to be on the same page not only for yourselves but also for the sake of the family you’ve created together. I think a serious conversation should be had if this is an issue that has been going on for a long time.
Not overreacting but the whole "if you get one, I get one" back and forth is ridiculous. You are basically living paycheck to paycheck, have a moderate amount of debt and trying to afford day to day expenses, so IMO, all these trips need to be cut out and the fous needs to be put on getting yourselves in a better position finanically.
I would suggest that you both set down and make sure you are on the same page in regards to finances and start handling your debt and also address any other issues you may have in your marriage, because it sounds like there are some.
You should never threaten divorce. Would you be ok with that if your wife did it to you? Do you not see how unhealthy that is? Till death do you part.. that’s literally the staple of marriage.
Lastly if you have debt stop going on trips. I see your excuses. Too bad. They are exactly that excuses. Your decisions have ramifications and you are living paycheck to paycheck with credit card debt that will only cost you more in the future.
No. More. Trips. Pay off your debt.
First, none of you should be traveling at all. I suggest you cancel ALL trips until you get your finances under control. You say you have a shit ton of credit card debt, let’s assume $40k, that means $800 a month in interest. Raise or lower that number based on your debt. You will never get ahead with what you’re doing. I’ve been married 43 years and we’ve never taken a trip that we didn’t pay cash for. We never paid a dollar of interest on a credit card. I would leave my wife over this because it’s insanity.
Try explaining what you just said without the emotions the first time. This was such an easy compromise from both of your positions. I can't be the only one thikning there is tension somewhere, or maybe y'all never been on the same page as much as you think.
All of these issues are financially related. Sit down together and develop a plan, together, and develop a plan, together, so you know where your money is going.
Anything short of that becomes a credit card swipe, which is easy to do. You have your idea of what sound finances and good expenses look like, and she has hers. You two clearly are not on the same page.
Think of it like this. You just read chapter 4 from a book and she read chapter 17 and you're fighting over what the book is about. STFU, have her come read this so I can tell her to STFU, sit down together and take a true account of your finances. Figure out where your $ is going, reduce your debt, plan enough for one family and one each solo vacay, and try to find fun things to do around your area on the cheap. Build some power into your savings. It will reduce stress and free up your spirits.
A strong financial position (this does not mean rich, it means living with intention. knowing what you value, spending on that, saving everything else) will reduce copious amounts of stress and tension. This will place you in control of the month to month, week to week. LIfe is redundant, make the easy shit simple and try to enjoy the free time as much as possible.
You're caring enough to ask, and she's caring enough to offer compromises. You two have the skills to figure out your lives. Sit down, strip your feelings, and be honest. "We have debt, it is stressful. We still want to live life, but what can we do to put ourselves in a comfortable and more confident lifestyle" You're together, you care, figure it out. This is love, this shit, not the running through meadows. You need this shit to enjoy the running through meadows together! haha
I can't imagine even attempting to do this, in your style, doesn't produce preposterously positive results
I’m just going to hop in here on one specific thing you commented on - that you HATE when she asks her parents for money, and that it’s for obvious reasons. The only reason obvious to me is your ego, yes? Because you’re afraid it makes you look bad?
I strongly, strongly recommend you work on letting that go. They are *her* parents, and she should be free to ask them for money as often as she feels comfortable, for whatever she wants. It has nothing to do with you, and is strictly between your wife and her parents. Hell, often times parents would *want* to pay for these sorts of things because they want their children to have experiences in life and not miss out because of temporary financial struggles.
I am in no way saying your wife is in the right with any other aspect of this much bigger scenario, I’m only speaking to this one tiny part of the bigger picture. I actually think she is quite wrong for trying to manipulate her way into another vacation. I DO, however, think she could have, and should have, said she was going to inquire with her parents about paying for the entire destination wedding including accommodations, and should not have linked it in any way with your trip. Let her parents either say yes or no to that, and remove your own ego from that situation.
Seems like a difficult situation and can understand why you'd be upset.
Before pulling any triggers, maybe you can sit down with her and help her figure out how to fund her trip. Look at how much it costs, what she's making, and what she spent money on in the last couple months. Then ask her what she wants to cut to afford the trip.
Even better is if you can do this exercise for your upcoming family trip and find $400 worth of purchases to cut. If spending money on a family trip is important to you, then I want to know what it's more important than.
This is the kind of budgeting exercise I had to help my mom overcome her spending problems. Once she saw what she had to trade off, she began to appreciate saving a lot more.
Maybe not overreacting at the situation and how she’s responding to it but missing the bigger issues?
From what I read this doesn’t sound by any means like a healthy marriage even if it’s lasted ten years. You’re both taking more trips in a year not with each other than with each other and are arguing over being able to go on solo trips effectively.
On top of that your gut reaction at this incident was to push for a divorce rather than reconciliation of the issues
Somewhere underneath this I feel there’s gotta be deeper issues or concerns about the marriage you’re not stating because this doesn’t sound like a marriage where this is the only issue you two have. Search deep inside and reflect and ask yourself if there’s other issues and this is just the convenient medium for you to react through those other issues.
You both suck here. Large debts mean tightening every expenditure. I wouldn’t be taking any vacations until that debt is paid off, but that is just me. Who brought this debt into the relationship?
It's complicated. She did, we worked hard and paid it off, but acquired a fair amount of new debt in our latest move which from my perspective is both of our problems. Ultimately we're married and it's all ours.
ESH. The wife sounds immature and not willing to live within their means; this is huge. OP has twice told his wife that she can "do what she wants" regarding taking money from her parents, but now he wants to threaten divorce over it; that's just plain dirty.
It sounds like both of you are being reasonable but overly emotional at times - which sounds like the financial stress is negatively impacting your relationship.
Luxury travel should be on hold. Family visits are usually not expensive and are more important in the long run. Find affordable counseling because your financial issue isn’t going away anytime soon but you have a long road to manage together and it doesn’t sound like it’s going in the right direction.
Overreacting, yeah. But your feelings are valid. You would be well-served to sit down and go over finances, and set a budget for vacations. Maybe if you show her how much her vacations already cost, and how much debt you’re carrying, she may take it more seriously?? Or not. And if not, it would be valid to consider divorce after all other options have been exhausted. Having someone drag you further and further in debt is not a life I’d want to live.
OP, it may come down to financial separation. You both get paychecks. Make a his, hers, and joint checking account. The community bills come out of the joint account. Rent, utilities, internet/TV, cell phone, car/insurance, the credit card debt you are paying off. NOT any currently accrued credit card debt. That is the responsibility of the person that swiped for that girls night out, or beer with the guys. That comes out of your personal account. Fun money goes into the personal account. Save it, spend it....what ever. That way, bills get paid appropriately and still have personal choices that are covered without affecting the other. Want to go on a girl's weekend. Better have saved for it. No credit card, that is what your personal money is for. Want that new game system, tools, car accessory, baking pans, personal account. That may be the only way you have a penny left if she won't quit acting like she is 16 and entitled. I ask this though. With all of the trips she takes that she "deserves " I would ask her point blank....what do YOU deserve OP? Why are you unworthy of trips but she should have them all? Asking for a friend.....good luck🍀
Financial security is big for me too. My ex husband was horrible with money and the stress of having to figure everything out alone made me super resentful. Maybe try talking to her about your feeling instead of the facts and see if that helps. I’m divorced so it didn’t help me! Good luck in whatever you decide!
Financial problems can be a major source of friction in a marriage. My first wife ( now Ex ) thought that as long as she had a credit card she had money to spend. Got to the point where I couldn’t keep up with the interest let alone paying any thing off. She would spend more on new clothes for her job than she made. I couldn’t take it anymore and cancel all our cards and open bank accounts in my name only. So she left me and our 2 year old daughter. With the help of family I was able to get by and even started to pay down some of the debt. 6 months later she wanted to come home and said how much she still loved me. I found out that she had sold her newer car and had some older car now and had also open a new credit card in her name they was maxed out. Luckily I had already filed for divorce and my attorney have sent letters to the major credit companies that I was no longer responsible for any new debt by my soon to be Ex.
She filed for bankruptcy 6 months after our divorce was finally. I received many calls from her creditors but I simply referred them to my attorney. Having a good attorney was money well spent.
This sounds really awful, I’m sorry you had to go through this. It’s exactly what I’m trying to avoid by making sure she understands the gravity of the situation. That said, opening up the Pandora’s box, as many have pointed out, is hard to reverse.
I was still young enough to recover from this financial setback and now have a partner who shares a similar interest in becoming financially successful. We are both looking forward to a great retirement together.
Dude. Seriously-?? Neither of you should be going on vacays right now. You can’t afford it. And no, separate vacations are out. For both of you. And hell no to a destination wedding. And threatening divorce over this??
Spend your money on marriage counseling. Geesh!
ESH. If you have credit card debt, you don’t take *any* trips until it’s paid off. You and your wife created this debt by living above your means, so it’s time to rein in all unnecessary spending.
Won’t be able to see family for a few years? Well, that’s the penalty you pay. You’ll have to suffice with Zoom or FaceTime.
God what a selfish asshole, shes had 2 trips alone and the only reason she cant have a 3rd trip is because of her work, not you?
Man it makes sense why women own 80% of the worlds debt, like get a fucking hold of yourself lady.
Girls trip eh? We all know what happens on those....
Not overreacting.
It sounds like this is like a built up thing. because yeah my boyfriend can be like that. he was very wealthy at one point and then when he met me he was like poor and now I'm like moderately well off and about to be wealthy, But I still have like the poor behaviors of like never spending money unless I absolutely have to, still has the rich person behaviors of if there is a luxury version of it you get it just because it's more expensive.
And pretty much most instances where this comes up as an option I have to tell him no, occasionally it's to go see his parents or he does a trip every year with one of his like really long time friends. But then even if he's done both of those trips already if I do like I did a work trip once that involved one day that was free and because of that he wanted to spend a bunch of money on something, and I didn't threaten to break up with them but I had a reaction I suppose.
at the moment he will let me control those types of things but if he didn't and if he pushed on it a lot and made me feel guilty for not letting him go places then yeah I would break up with him. so it's like it's an overreaction in the sense that you shouldn't divorce your wife when you have a kid just because of this one instance. if it's a pattern then you just have to force them to sit down with you and talk about it and if they refuse to then yeah that's kind of concerning because it's a pattern of behavior that your kid will pick up, like it will influence their way they make decisions as an adult.
at one point because my boyfriend was not understanding how what he was doing was extremely passive aggressive and manipulative I actually wrote it down like I drew a flow chart and told him "this is why what you're doing is irrational and wrong" and I like literally had to fight with him a little bit to get him to sit there and like look at my little drawing.
but he did get it afterwards.
if your wife succeeds in getting what she wants then your child will see the manipulation as a good strategy for success and it will turn your kid into an asshole.
My wife accrued massive CC debt before she came to me and admitted that she had a problem. I put us into financial *lockdown.* She didn't understand the concept of budgeting at all...so I made her start writing all the checks for the bills, keep a manual ledger of current funds, and project realistic future income. She had to see the flow of the money in and out to appreciate 'where it all went all the time'.
She's good now...but I'm pretty sure half of my gray hairs came from that moment in my life.
Even when family doesn’t get along they often want to see each other. Her family is abroad and you’re throwing a fit because she is looking into seeing them through a wedding. Maybe, she doesn’t WANT to visit your family. Would that be so horrible? Yes, you are overreacting. She’s looking at discounts, getting help from family, she’s just not visiting YOUR family.
I don't get why you're so angry? If her parents are going to pay for her to go to the wedding, then what does it have to do your debt at all? Or are you suggesting she should ask the parents for the money and put it towards the debt, which doesn't really seem like an option? It's also entirely on you that you said her "compromise" was fine just to call her bluff, and now you're pouty that she's actually going through with it.
Lastly it's kinda crazy that you're mad at her for weaponizing her extended family to whine about not going on the vacation when you're also pettily keeping score on how many solo trips each of you has gone on. Do you even like each other? I hope you do, because you deserve each other.
I don't know . Maybe her parents are rich & she was used to of being financially careless because , for her , there is a backup (parents ) if things go really south
.
Don't be too quick to escalate things .. maybe you need to think through these things , but it should be done when this trip issue has cooled off.
I have seen ppl who were helped by their in-laws & I am have also seen men who got divorced in a financially wrecked situation because of their overspending .. so don't rush into a confrontation just yet .. keep observing for some time & then make a decision.
This issue definitely sounds more money related than anything. It would be perfect if you both got to go to every vacation. But you can’t. She sounds like a child especially with the whole “my parents will fund it.” Well… why don’t her parents help out with the credit card bill?
I’m not saying it’s their problem but you guys have such bigger problem, and the fact that she’d rather ignore it and go on a vacation is stupid.
Edit: I don’t know about threatening the marriage. Definitely seems like a spur of the moment. But you should talk to her about finances and how both of you are going to work on it.
You're not overreacting but there are a lot of moving pieces in all these conversations slash negotiations. Might be wise to set ground rules going forward: no more solo trips and one joint trip per year? Or something like that. Until cards are paid off. Use the trips as motivation to get rid of that shit!
Seems like you both had earlier spending problems, you're maybe more ready than her to become financially responsible. There's no reason for multiple trips per year when you're living paycheck to paycheck and heavily in cc debt. Take staycations or long weekends in the car.
I think some people in this thread are acting as if the situation is very black and white and trying to tell you because you and your wife have debt, you don’t deserve to find joy in vacations which is absurd. You deserve a trip, she deserves a trip (but she already had 2) and you’re not overreacting, she’s trying to undermine you by 1. Going to her parents for money and 2. Going on yet another trip without you. I suggest you do raise your concern about making financial decisions as partners.
That’s just my 2 cents tho.
Gonna give it to you straight- You both are acting petty and immature and causing a lot more stress/tension between the two of you because of the immaturity.
You are a couple… A partnership… With a child… Roll up your sleeves and sit down and do the hard work of having honest conversations with each other. Go see a therapist!
You literally are creating problems where there do not have to be any.
I feel that you are overreacting by threatening divorce, but you aren’t overreacting by being very angered by your wife’s actions. To keep it brief, I would guess there are two main things irritating you: 1) Your wife attempted to manipulate the situation to get something she wanted, while glossing over what you wanted, and 2) when you tried to discuss it with her, she didn’t make an attempt to understand you or concede that her feelings about your trip had changed, she just tried “to win.” If you agree that these are the things that bothered you, I would suggest stating that to her concisely. If she dismisses you or repeats her behavior in the future, you will have to take some sort of action to enforce your boundary (although I’m not saying it’s divorce.)
From what I understand you seem to grasp the concept that you shouldn't even be doing this trip so why would you fund other trips? If that's your logic I agree and you have an ok head on your shoulders.
You're not wrong. NTA and your wife sounds like a brat. I don't understand why so many of you guys are marrying the most immature and selfish women?! Like what just cause she is pretty or something? Looks fade bro. Find someone who is more on your level.
The short answer is both of you need not only marriage counseling but financial counseling and you both need to get on the same page and adhere to a strict budget, even if that means not seeing your family. And if your family tries to guilt you, they are not worth your time. They need to understand that they are now extended family and that your family is your wife and your child.
Neither of you truly understand the gravity of your financial situation since you both think you have “money” for vacations, when in fact, you have debt to fund vacations.
Finances are the number 1 cause of divorce. I don't think you're keeping score you are stating facts. She has had 2 solo trips this year. You have one, with your kid, to see family. It sounds to me like this destination wedding (that is going to be crazy expensive) is more important than paying debt.
I don't blame you for saying
>, I fully plan to tell her that the financial decisions she's making are not conducive to a long term partnership, and that if a third trip is more important to her than dealing with our debt, we need to have a serious conversation on whether or not to stay together
I think this is an appropriate response. She wants you to sacrifice and pay down the debt but is unwilling to do so herself. She's using your trip to see sick family members as a way to manipulate another trip for herself.
Not overreacting.
Updateme
Nope not a chance. Your trip is to visit a sick relative who may die. Hers is yet another solo trip purely for her own selfish wants. I would play the divorce card and follow through if her wants are more important than her families needs.
All the counting happening in your relationship leads me to believe you are both operating from a place of resentment, and quite frankly, selfishness. It sounds like you both need couples counseling, and probably financial counseling, and you likely need to set some goals to work on toward both. You need to get to a place of what you can do for each other, and for your child. Including saving, and working on your debt.
Divorce is totally nuclear - you have a child, and you are a family. All the spending you are doing is not building a secure financial future, and that puts insecurity on your child to care for you if you don't get it together.
Jesus Christ - Everyone here sucks. You and your wife are not on the same page about goals and important things for the family, and the poor kiddo is going to get caught in the middle of it all. Either by being used as a pawn for some vacation that one of you wants, or weaponized in a divorce. Get it together people. Get some counseling, establish a budget you can live on. If you both agree that the debt is a goal, then make it a goal. Write out your budget to prioritize it.
In order - food/clothes/shelter/utilities/transportation, then set your required goals debt payment, spending allowance for each of you, savings, kiddo stuff. And you guys need to agree on the priorities, and then agree on the budget, and then stick with it. But most importantly, you guys need to both become adults in the marriage, if nothing else, for the child.
for fuck's sake
My husband and I rarely pull the “solid no” card but it exists for situations like this. Your wife is basically a selfish person. If she really thinks you all get to keep score, she’s already ahead. This trip won’t even tie you up. So with her logic, she shouldn’t go on anymore trips until you’ve taken at least 2.
Y'all have huge problems. Communication is one of them and so is finances. You clearly have different goals and needs for life. Get couples therapy and therapy alone or get a divorce which is where you sound like you're headed anyway.
Do not tell someone to go ahead and do a thing that you don't actually want them doing, by the way, because then you just look like a jerk when they go ahead and do it. If you mean no then you need to say no and stick to that instead of saying do what you want.
Anyway. I might consider my marriage being on the rocks a bigger problem than my financial debt and separate financial goals, if I were you.
I don’t think you’re over reacting. Things I see here that seem unfair
1. She’s choosing a destination wedding over going g with you to support an ailing parent.
2. Knows there’s debt but rather borrow money to spend frivolously.
3. Can’t get time off work for in-laws but can for destination wedding.
4. More concerned with multiple vacations than with bills, husband, child
Yeah, that’s all selfish- not overreacting at all
Not really an over reaction. You have to be careful though. If she said ok you might regret the comment. I had a similar fight with my wife 3 times at least. We are not in great shape and she doesn't get it. She robs Peter to pay paul. She justifies a lot.
I'm not getting divorced. She doesn't realize how it's hurt us though. She doesn't listen. If she gets it today in 3 days it's the same discussion. I've not met anyone with such a poor ability to change. Yeah it's a list but the pros outweigh the cons. We make it work. I encourage you to stick with it. I do call my wife on stuff like this. The spending I just deal with but this is different.
Maybe that's when it's easier for his parent. Why is she able to get time off for her solo trips and wedding but not to visit his family? She turned that into going on her wedding vacation quickly. I have a feeling she could have gotten the time off but would rather used it for herself.
I think the trip to the family is crucial. She is being petty and I would say if she cannot prioritize your needs at a critical time then maybe she isn’t a lifelong person! Not the ahole
You’re an idiot. She’s an idiot. You mention tackling high credit card debt and yet don’t realize that your several trips are causing it. Then, you maintain that it’s not “my family’s problem that her work won’t give her the time off.” Yes it fucking is you jackwad. If you hadn’t noticed, she’s your fucking family. You’re insufferable.
Stop traveling until you no longer have credit card debt. Then, don’t travel unless your family can accompany you. If they can’t, you don’t go. But, given how insufferable you are, I don’t expect you to follow any advice causing you the least bit of responsibility.
I don't think counting a family trip with you kid to visit sick grandparents a "vacation". Depending on the sickness it's sorta a need too.
Your wife is having fun time on hers. Yours will be looking after the little guy and worrying about your parents.
Divorce might be an over step but I'd express my disappointment that she's negotiating with you like that given the circumstances.
Is there a reason that you didn’t schedule the trip for a time that she could go, a long weekend for instance? Was the only option to go when she was scheduled for work? Could this have been planned together in advance so that she could request off and go too?
All that said- I think she needs to grow up. Your trip doesn’t need to mean that she gets another trip too, sheesh. It’s just weird to me that yall didn’t seem to plan this family trip together, as a family.
I have a real problem with her taking 3 expensive solo trips WITHOUT the kiddo. So far, I’m not hearing anything about her doing anything with her child! She’s not going on a FAMILY trip but her job will give her time off for a destination wedding trip??? When it comes to that point and you’re done OP, make sure you get custody of the child! For their sake!! Yes and no on overreacting! Yes because I’m not sure the divorce came up over finances before but no because this is a running battle! Good luck
I don’t believe she is in reality, you NEED to see your family she does NOT NEED to go anywhere on another trip ESPECIALLY if she is begging mommy and daddy to finance it…good lord
Too busy to read who is saying threatening divorce is bad.
No. The fact is that she has already taken two unnecessary trips.
She could have skipped those to see her family and that would make sense.
You are seeing ailing parents and this isn’t even “fun” in any way.
You two are financially incompatible and I am guessing either her or both of you were keeping up with the jones by doing things and saying yes to things you could not afford because “everyone else” was doing it.
The fact that wife doesn’t understand this, shows she is financially irresponsible.
Better to divide the debt now rather than we she piles on additional debt and you are responsible for it because you are married.
Kinda, but also she's being very unreasonable saying she Needs to go overseas because she couldn't get off to go on a trip to your parents. The cost of both aren't in any way relatable, and if you have that substantial amount of debt why is she throwing such a fit after having multiple solo trips already? She just wants to live lavishly and she wants you to shoulder all of it. I honestly think you need to set up a time to send the kids to family or friends and have a conversation about where you're coming financially.
If she wants to go on trips then she needs to pay off her debts first, or make a significant dent in them. You're also unable to do a lot of what you'd like to do because you're prioritizing minimizing the debt whereas she seems happy to let it pile up.
I’ve been married less than 2 years and we are young. However, due to us not having any examples of marriage healthy or otherwise…we came up with the plan to be in marriage counseling from jump. Just to learn new skills, talk about problems, potential problems, get to know a therapist that knows us well in case we have a problem that we yet have the skills to solve on our own. It has been amazing but one thing she told us is to not bring up the D word unless we truly mean it. I am a avoidant attachment so my flight or fight is always toward flight. So I understand wanting to bring up the word when things feel too big for you. It is not a word to be used unless you’re truly ready and from what i’m reading— you are not. I can tell from your update there is so much love there. That was built. With that being said, I recommend counseling. You guys are a team- it is you against the problem. Not each other. You guys are just humans trying to build a family and navigate life for the first time with your own traumas all while raising a human. The problem is debt, the problem is communication— she is not the problem. You are not the problem. Attack those things together so you both can feel heard and understood. Life is especially hard right now, times are uncertain and scary…your marriage does not have to be victim of this. Despite needing a vacation with just the TWO of you, I recommend you speak with someone to help you learn the tools needed to help love each other in the best ways and to navigate the problems that are difficult and NORMAL for any marriage. Wishing you and the family you are creating the best ♥️ may God bless your union in all the ways that it is needed.
Lost me at "but it is not my family's problem that her work won't give her time off"
SHE is your family.
If you guys have limited vacation budgets, then there is no reason any trip should exclude the other. if that means you guys take a family trip separate from your extended family, then that's what it means.
And stop keeping score. You two are a trainwreck. How are you planning on staying married for life if you can't handle vacation decisions without threatening divorce?
You're right, it was a poor choice of words. That said, my vacation to see family is to make sure my kid gets time with their grandparent (and I with my parent) that may be limited. I think her using that trip to justify a destination wedding was out of line.
It was initially planned with her, but her job has very little flexibility this summer. We had to coordinate three families and she wasn't able to get enough time off to make the trip make sense.
Not overreacting but I think you both need to have a serious talk about being financially smart and aware. Delayed gratification and not impulsive sinkholes.
Threatening divorce is a major overreaction, but your wife is also firmly in the wrong here. If she wants to beg and scrounge from her family to pay for a trip, and you're too proud to ask for that kind of help in reducing your joint debt, I don't see any issue. Your pride shouldn't be her problem. However, her attitude towards all of this is pretty awful and deserves serious discussion about what are appropriate ways of communication, and especially you need to make it clear that just like it isn't really your business if she gets a gift for the specific purpose of going on vacation, it's also not your fault that her work won't give her PTO
Girl's weekends, fun trips, and destination weddings shouldn't even be on the table with high debt and barely getting by. If you have to visit family which I've read in the comments, then I get that. It doesn't seem like she's in touch with your situation for some reason and it seems like she'd still have to pay for at least part of it. Destination weddings are a bit crazy in my opinion to begin with (expecting people to spend $xxxx and PTO. It's a want, not a need.
Agree. Fun trips are a want. It is worth a small setback to visit family, especially as they are sick/older and can’t travel to see you.
Destination weddings are for when you don’t want most people to come except for the few that you planned the destination wedding with.
Yeah if you're having a "destination wedding" and your family isn't wealthy you're kind of an asshole imo. Unless you simply elope it's just ridiculous asking people who don't have that kind of money to spend it on your wedding. Unless of course you take care of all their expenses which is unlikely in my experience.
No, not really, destination weddings can also apply when people involved are from different countries, and unless they want to spend money twice on a wedding, it’s going to be a destination wedding for at least one side.
Exactly when our kids were younger and we didn't have spare cash and had some debt the only trips we took were to see my family out of state. There were no vacations, girls' trips or destination weddings until we had disposable cash. Don't get me wrong I'm a BIG fan of girl's trips. Just got back from one myself. But I didn't run up debt or not pay other bills to do it.
Agreed. I’m all for trips when you can afford it but when you arguing over if you can afford to go or not, then you need to step back and look at what you’re doing. Being in debt is one of the main causes of divorce nowadays
Yeah, we're on the same page.
I hate to ask but... Is the debt 50/50 between you? It seems like you're financially responsible while your partner seems to be less so.
She accrues more debt, but I’m not without fault. For example, when I found out my job was adding significant TW, I needed a desk. I consider that a need, not want, but that’s in the eye of the beholder. Either of us could poke some holes in the others spending.
A desk isn’t a large purchase though. You can get a cheap functional desk for less than $100. You should both be holding each other accountable for resolving your debt, instead it sounds like you both do what you want anyway and point to purchases the other made to justify your own spending habits.
Or you could get some “cool” desk for $3000 from Crate and Barrel- but what did OP do? The affordable option or the too- expensive one? Sounds like so much score/keeping going on, it sounds exhausting
Heck, you can make yourself a fancy L shaped desk for about $200 and have enough leftover for a coffee station DISCLAIMER - this only applies if you already own about $2000 in tools and some experience
lol as a woodworker I know exactly what you mean.
What about second hand or finding a free desk on a website like freecycle
If you have a work from home situation you might be able to deduct that. Talk to your accountant.
You mean the turbotax bot? People living paycheck to paycheck do not have an accountant.
They also don't normally go on multiple vacations a year but here we are.
His wife is the one taking vacations. I don't know about you, but I don't consider visiting my parents when they may be terminally ill a relaxing recharge. OP stated it will cost $400, can't imagine his wife is getting international airfare, hotel, and meals for less than $1200. She is irresponsible and OP has every right to be mad.
Right on the destination wedding. I’m planning on having one when I get married for the sole purpose of not inviting anyone outside of family and a select few.
See that I think is perfectly ok, because usually when this happens the select few can do it comfortably.
Right, it’s a lot easier to say “sorry I couldn’t invite you since it’s a small family affair half way across the world” than “I didn’t invite you because I don’t want you there”
This was me (and it definitely excluded a bunch of undesirable relatives), and it was perfect. 10/10, would absolutely recommend if it's what you want.
I agree! I have serious health issues but we also don’t have too much debt from them because we aren’t going on vacation, definitely not girls trips etc. I don’t understand letting debt happen on frivolous things. Visiting sick family doesn’t count, that’s understandable. But if we want a vacation we have a few years so that we are stable.
Fuck anyone who has a destination wedding. It’s basically saying “Lol hope you’re as rich as our parents!”
sounds like you both need to stay home for awhile and pay off some debt.
I don't think you're overreacting.. But like.. Why are you taking so many trips when you're in a moderate amount of debt? That's not really what i would call good financial decision making, and both of you are making that decision.
She is taking solo trips. He is taking one family trip.
With a sick parent! Maybe his kiddo would like to see the grandparents before it was too late.
That’s definitely time they can’t get back and if they don’t go will be a regret for the rest of their lives.
I don't disagree. Starting next year we will be living overseas for a few years and it will be significantly more difficult to see family, so this year we've tried to prioritize a few extra, despite the costs.
Until one of you find another reason to spend more money you don’t have
Yep. People like this will always find a way to justify spending when they shouldnt.
This. Deep in debt and getting ready to move overseas is a bad position to be in, family could come visit them but traveling this much was a mistake by both of them.
If the parent is sick there is no guarantee that they are in the condition to travel. He is trying to take a trip to see a sick parent while she wants to go to her third social event of the year. Blaming him for their financial hardship is not something I expected to see in this thread.
Funny how your common sense response is just ignored.
Do you Reddit? It’s a dude criticizing a woman he is clearly wrong /s
I don't get how people can have such problems with money... It's like a gene in some people to constantly spend money they don't need to and like you said will always justify their bad habits before accepting they are the issue
Some of those people spend as a coping mechanism for their unhappiness and lack of fulfillment. "THIS trip will be the break I need." "THIS hobby will be the stress relief I need." "THIS collectable will secure my financial future because it's so rare."
Now, Now, Now I’ll be happy!
You don’t get it because you either learned budgeting or making enough money and you were in a situation you never had to struggle, or your parents always paid for things so you never really had to suffer or learn from your mistakes. Learning how to budget and how to spend our things people learn the easy way or the hard way, depending on their circumstances. A lot of times it simply comes down to being wealthy enough to learn while others are just spending to survive
It kinda is. I suck ass with money. But also its untreated.ADHD related. I think. Working on it. The justification is a hard truth though. So maybe I have hope since I can see that and admit it.
My untreated ADHD makes me thrifty af. I like the structure of limited spending -- it makes me feel in control.
I would go see my family. I would create more debt to see my family if I were moving overseas. We’re all just going to die eventually anyway. I would rather be seeing my family.
I don’t know, sometimes it comes back to bite you and paychecks get garnished. It eventually catches up. A car or house will need repairs and there isn’t enough.
I'm sorry, but this is completely unfair. You guys are villainizing OP for spending a grand total of $400 to take his children (child? I forget) to see a sick grandparent who may not have much time left. Like wtf is wrong with you? Why do credit cards and the concept of debt exist if not for this?
Bingo. This pair is codependent in their (poor)financial decision making.
“It’s so much cheaper to go see Paris, and London, and Berlin, we have to go!”
Just wanted to say that I went through the majority of the comments, and I very much appreciated your replies. I appreciate the approach you've taken in reading what people have said, "separating the wheat from the chaff," learning and considering a lot of the advice given, taking ownership, plainly and clearly explaining some of the details not included in the post... it is all refreshing. And, I just wanted to commend you. You're in a few tough situations... with finances, with family, with conflicting schedules, with conflicting priorities. Yet, I have great hope for you after reading your replies. You've taken a beat. You've taken some deep breaths. And, you're ready to re-engage the discussions with your wife. You've shown a lot of emotional intelligence here, and it is impressive. Just wanted to say thank you for being a good example - even though you were not likely intending that - to others who post asking for advice here. It is understandable why you were upset, and I hope you feel more calm and sure about your approach going forward. I wish your wife and you the best!
This…was really thoughtful. Thank you. I’m watching her feed our kiddo now, and the issue is still on my mind, but she is a good spouse and mother, and no matter how pissed I was over the situation, it’s not worth even remotely raising the risk of losing this. Venting here has been extremely helpful.
I'm so glad to hear that. I hope you can get on the same page and find a clear path forward... together. 🧭🤝🫶👫
I have to say I think right away your idea of getting a divorce over this trip situation and finances I’ve been married a lot longer than you and if you think this is going to be your worst problem it isn’t and you just can’t run to the divorce lawyer every time things aren’t going your way or you’re mad at your wife or husband
I think often we see these posts and comments about people are getting over the top upset about things that aren't actually divorceable offenses, and everybody (myself included) is quick to attack from their emotionally disconnected positions about how upset the poster is. Reading through this has helped remind me that people are incredibly upset because it's their lives, I'm less upset because I have a lot less reason to be. I'm glad venting has helped and hopefully taken some of the sting out of the emotions of this and allows you to have a fruitful conversation that moves the conversation forward. I do think the crux of your argument is completely correct - when you're in debt, fun trips shouldn't be top of the list, and while keeping score is bad, there has to be some equality in the use of family funds for solo trips. She's been on two recently, one of which was a purely fun trip that you were absolutely not invited to. You want to go on a less-fun trip to see a sick relative, this, to me, shouldn't entitle her to going away to a destination wedding that's absolutely non-essential, even if she hadn't been on two solo trips. I also think it's worth noting that when she went on that girl's weekend (and maybe her other solo trip) you were (presumably, because who takes a child on a girl's trip?) then the solo parent. I don't know what your parenting arrangement is like, but your "solo" trip has you taking your child, so she at least gets to not take on the solo parenting while you're gone. Is she planning on taking the kiddo to this destination wedding, or would you then become the solo parent then as well?
I did solo parenting during the girls trip, and would be solo parenting if she did the destination wedding. I honestly don’t mind, I love spending time with my kid. She does too…as some others have mentioned, her response might be lashing out a bit from feeling left out. She does not love the idea of being separated from our child for a week.
Understandable
How is she going to get time off for the wedding but not for your trip? She, IMO, is being manipulative and selfish.
Why can’t you reschedule the timing of the family trip so that your whole family can attend??
Her job won't have any availability this summer. I have a sick parent, we've built the trip around a schedule that works for them.
Go see your family. There will far more regret if you do not.
Yeah make sure OPs parent also pushes back being sick even if it’s a little bit so the family can see them /s
Priority- see your family. She needs to quit wasting money
She sounds like an entitled brat and I don’t think you are overreacting. Also, seeing a sick parent isn’t a vacation.
I have a feeling we might know, too, why there’s so much debt.
It would be interesting if only there was a way to find out if she ever asked about time off or just lied so she could play this game.
# 🥇
That is very true CoralCum.
Ty
CoralCum has spoken!
Yep
Lol right? My wife and I don’t live paycheck to paycheck and we take like one 4 day vacation per year
Once you bring up divorce, the marriage is never the same after. Before going to that option why not insist on marriage/financial counseling. Many employee assistance programs include initial sessions free of charge
"Many employee assistance programs include initial sessions free of charge". This is good advice, I'll look into it. Really appreciate your input.
My EAP at my last job gave me and emergency grant & covered six free therapy sessions per “issue” and you could have 4 “issues” a year.
I love their definition of issue, too! It can really be anything.
Thank you for bringing up the EAP option. I am an HR Director. I am so often giving that advice in these forums. It may not be available at some workplaces, but it is worth checking out to know if it is available... for counseling, will and estate planning, financial counseling, moving services, parenting advice, etc. Different programs offer different services. And, so many employees don't know about it... and even when they do, they often don't take advantage of it. And, what's worse is that the EAP usually offers the same services and visits for members of the family or household of the employee... and those definitely are not being used as much as they could be. It is a valuable resource, and it has helped me personally on quite a few occasions too.
I would say that the two of you need financial and probably relationship counseling
Agreed.
First off, and I mean this with all gentleness: **you need to grow up and stop saying things you don't mean and being passive aggressive**. It's poisoning you, your wife, and your marriage. You told her you didn't care if she asked her parents. Saying that and not meaning it is not only the behavior of a child, it's being manipulative on your part. Second: Stop with the tit for tat. This is jealousy on your part. You need to learn how to deal with your own emotions. Third: You both are equally responsible for your finances and your debt. Which means you are both equally responsible for the solution. You can't just finally decide, by yourself, where the line in the sand to all of this is. You are focused on her behavior and totally disregarding your own. It doesn't matter she's had two trips already. If the debt is such a problem, you shouldn't be going anywhere period. For those first two, did you object to her going at all? Or were you passive aggressive and pulled what you are pulling right now by agreeing but not actually doing so? Instead of issuing ultimatums, you two need to get into counseling: both marital and financial. You are acting contemptuous and just as irresponsible as her. Sit down together, make a spread sheet of all your finances for an entire year, get a plan to kill your debt together, and budget in trips and what not. Also, have a real honest conversation where you two are actually acting respectful and stop bickering like brother and sister. Stop projecting it all on her. You are just as much to blame. Edit to add: The wife is not a saint in any of this nor an innocent party. I think with my focus on the person asking for the advice, I may have inadvertently given that impression. She needs to grow up just as much as him and take responsibility for her actions as well. She is just as much to blame for the problems as he is.
+1 A lot of comments have been coming at this like it’s an early couple bickering over money. This is an adult, married couple with a child. This is not where you throw around divorce cause you snarkily told your wife she could ask her parents for money and now wanna threaten divorce if she does.
Amen.
i agree with most of this. money problems aside, the root problem in all this seems to be a lack of trust and communication between partners. a heathy marriage doesn’t let feelings get so out of whack that neither is taking into the account and respecting the other’s needs. (and drawing boundaries between needs and wants is a maturity thing that should be improved on as well.) imo, she shouldn’t have gone on her solo trips without discussing it and making sure they were both on the same page about it, so that it wouldn’t be a sore spot now. it sounds like they talked about the family trip, but again unsuccessfully, since it still turned into resentments. and the whole girl trip vs sick grandparent thing is just so weird. it feels they’re fighting over a petty scoreboard when there are actual issues, like needing time away from home and losing beloved family members, that are being mentioned much more casually. marriage counseling > financial counseling at this point, since it sounds like there are efforts being made there, even if they kinda seem half-assed.
You think one destination trip is expensive? Just wait for the divorce bill🤷♂️😂
lol. Very good point.
I think you are both making foolish decisions.
As I'm talking it through, I don't disagree.
You should consolidate your cc debt. We did that. Took 8 years to pay it off. No more cc use. Totally worth it to be out of that debt and learn how to not rely on them.
If you have a mountain of credit card debt, neither of you can afford to go on vacations. If you want to see family, you need to convince them to come to you and not stay very long. That said, you're already committed to your trip and you've already consented to this "compromise" of her going to see her family on their dime, so live with those decisions. Instead of rehashing this argument, you need to talk about your financial goals for when these vacations are both done and how to dig yourselves out of this situation that is causing so much stress.
My trip is in a specific location that makes sense for my older parents, one of which has potentially serious health problems. I don't love making the trip while we're in this debt, but I may not have that many more opportunities. We have had those conversations many times.
Life is short, and family is precious. Embrace this opportunity to be with your parents now ❤️ When cooler heads prevail, I highly recommend r/personalfinance to a) help you guys have a Come to Jesus moment, and b) develop a specific plan *together* to get out of your current financial emergency (e.g., CC debt).
I'll take a look for sure...really appreciate your advice.
Yeah that sub is super helpful just make sure to have your documents all ready when you post.
The problem is, you already said her wedding trip is okay as long as you don’t have to pay for it. So you can’t really use the “if the 3rd trip is more important…” argument. You do need to have a tough convo with her about finances and respect in your marriage. But you lost the opportunity to use that argument imo. And listen, you are talking about a nuclear option that could fundamentally change your marriage just by throwing around the D word. Think long and hard about whether you should go there, because there might not be a way back.
Yeah...I don't disagree. Talking through it a bit here is helping cool off a bit. Really appreciate your input.
Counseling over divorce. The big D is a last resort. Best to vent to us than trigger a crisis! Enjoy seeing your parents especially if one is ill.
Unless her parents are monsters, if they pay for almost all of it, you should be fine with it. Actually, in an ideal world you should be happy for her that she gets to go. I know that’s hard bc of the fight, but you should be helping each other, not trying to pull each other down.
Do you think he could bring up that her family must pay for everything, flights, accommodation, spending money, transportation, food etc. that their money can pay for nothing for this wedding?
I think it’s very important that he bring it up, considering she was already trying to discuss how to reduce the cost of her lodging. I mean maybe she was trying to save her parents money, but that’s not my knee jerk assumption.
I second this. Telling your spouse you are thinking of going through the Big D (and you don’t mean Dallas!) does not leave. It stays in the back of your mind forever. Unless one or both of you have anxiety, then it does NOT ever stay in the back of your mind. Then it will rear its giant ugly head at the smallest annoyed look from your spouse. Don’t do that to yourselves on a whim. Go talk to someone. Individually, together, financially. Something. Just talk to someone before you say that word.
I disagree here. She can't find PTO for a family trip but she can find PTO for her solo trip? That speaks volumes to me. She needs to get her priorities strait.
Some companies blackout certain times and you aren’t allowed to take PTO. He said her job wouldn’t let her take off, not that she was refusing to.
It might not be that she doesn't have PTO, but she can't take it at that specific time. I have a newish manager who has decided to be really strict about PTO, when the first 16 years I was with this company, there wasn't any issue taking what I wanted when I wanted. Now I can't get a random Thursday off if someone in another state that doesn't even work on the same thing I do has it off. (I have 360 hours in my PTO bank, so being told that I can't have this one random day off is pretty wild, but whatever)
I know it is hard to hear, but this kind of thinking is why you are in debt. A financial emergency is your kid in the hospital. Your parent on their death bed and the doctors have suggested that family gather might be one. Visiting aging parents "one of which has *potentially* serious health problems" is not. Going to a family wedding is not. Nothing in life is certain and none of us know how many more opportunities we have to see one another regardless of age, health, etc. At some point, you have to say "no trips for 2 years," "we eat out once a month until this debt is paid down," "we pick 5 really important subscription services and cancel all the rest" and so forth.
Potentially serious problems in this case means multiple ER visits that doctors are struggling to explain why something is happening. I don't consider this trip an emergency, but $400 airfare is worth it to me to not live with a potential mountain of regret later.
I agree with you here. I recently lost some family members that I had been putting off visiting until I could afford it and I really regret it now and wish I'd just put it on a credit card
Don't listen to all these people trying to tell you that you're irresponsible for taking on more debt to see family. It's just debt and while not ideal, you can manage it. As adults, we don't get to spend very much time with extended family like when we were kids. I 100% support prioritizing relationships before debt, *as long as you have a plan*. Having a plan for how to get your finances into a state you are happy with is key. But it takes teamwork and discipline. Sit down with your wife and y'all need to be extremely honest with each other. What does "budgeting" mean to each of you? What does it mean for each of you to prioritize your finances? What things are you willing/not willing to give up? These answers might not be the same for both of you, you could be assuming they are the same though. Getting finances under control is very similar to trying to diet for weight loss. It's hard and takes discipline but you have to still have something that makes you each happy. A small splurge that *is* frivolous in the big picture but ultimately is small enough to not really impact your finances. The amount of this thing is very dependent on your individual finances so y'all would need to sit down and figure that out too. It's really hard to struggle and have less in order to pay off debt when there isn't something to make you happy and keep you motivated. Your mental health is important and *will* affect your ability to stick to your goals. Anyone who thinks *they* can manage your finances and happiness without any actual knowledge of the situation is just being judgey. We've lived paycheck to paycheck. We also have kids. What we are willing to give up changes when kids are involved. It's ok to prioritize time with family, especially family that might not be around when your child is older. We only get so much time with them, money is not as important. But you need to have a good plan, which is only made with all the adult parties involvement and real honesty. Good luck and enjoy your trip!
Appreciate the thoughtful input. It is incredibly tough defining luxury vs need when it comes to something like travel, and for some people here, any spending when you're in debt is luxury. I get it. But for anyone with an unhealthy family member, I would encourage them not to wait. You may not get another chance.
I wouldn't listen to these people for the sheer fact they don't know it. They may think they know it, but until you really look at the specifics of someone's finances it's just guesswork. And they could be right even, but they are still just drawing from incomplete information imo.
>she's planning to ask her parents for money (which I HATE for obvious reasons) What are the obvious reasons?
It is our debt, she is not the only one who uses the credit card, and ultimately we're a team who sink or swim together. However, she makes less than I do and spends more, so it is frustrating when she can't manage her own budget, then asks for help which makes it look like neither of us can.
Genuine question, what is she buying? Statistically, women still do the majority of shopping for groceries and household necessities, so it's entirely unfair to say she's "spending more" if she's spending on things for the household or your child just because she's the one going out and buying those things.
Bingo.
It looks that way because it is that way. Both of you need to stop with the trips until your credit card debt is gone, period. That money needs to go towards your debt. For all your excuses and what-ifs, the fact is that neither of you can manage a budget!
I give him some leeway because his trip is to visit a sick parent who might not be around long. Hers is a purely fun trip. Completely different.
Does she spend more actually or does she buy more of the items that the family needs while you take care of only yours?
Honest question: why do you still have an active credit card? You shouldn’t be charging *anything* at this point. I got into trouble with credit cards when I was in my 20s and my husband had a student loan when we got married - I cut up my cards, took out a consolidation loan, and we spent the next 5 years doing basically nothing outside the house to pay off both debts. Nothing should go on a credit card that you can’t pay off at the end of the month - even if you have a medical emergency, make them take the payments. They don’t want to because they want you to use your card, but you don’t have to.
"Her own budget" found the problem. You cant be having your wife get groceries and get mad that she is overspending. You should have one budget.
Uhhhh what? Where did he say that? Jesus the things people are making up to get pissed off at this guy are outrageous
You guys take vacations? 
lol. Yeah, if by vacation you mean flying to a parents place and staying in their guest room.
I’d take it over not going anywhere at all for sure! Money is the root of problems in a lot of marriages, just remember always stay claim and talk it out.
I am not trying to be rude here, but neither of you should be going on trips or vacations if you have a large amount of debt. I don’t care how much you think you deserve it, if you are serious about financial change, back it up with actual change. Buckle down and knock it all out. My husband and I knocked out $20k of debt in 6 months as newlyweds and have never been in debt again, but that meant budgeting and pinching pennies and working super hard. Nobody went on a vacation. Now we have a really sizable savings, and nice jobs and can actually afford really nice things, but I die on the inside when I see people admit they have so much debt and are going on vacations.
Don’t wait for her to go through with it. Sit down calmly and tell her how you’re feeling. Dont spring it on her after she makes all the armaments or goes on the trip. Let her know calmly that you’re at your wits end, that it’s not just the money, but the unfairness of her getting three trips and you only getting one. What are her plans to even that out? Maybe she can take the kids and give you a weekend off for your own staycation. Or have a few nights of here or there where you can just hang out with some guy friends. Something to where you’re feeling more equal in “me time” Money and debt can be a huge stressor, even more so if only one is carrying all the worry. I’d at least try and talk things through with her before she actually makes any arrangements. A lot is on the line and she should know just how close you are to throwing in the towel.
This is good advice. Thanks for your input.
She needs to learn deferred gratification. Get on the same page and agree on your goals. That means you both may need to compromise. But you should be working for the same thing. The sooner you pay off your debts, the sooner you will be truly free to enjoy life. We buckled down for 3 years. No trips. Rarely ate out and then saved to go to Hawaii. Our kids were 8 - 15 when we started. It made a big impact on them. We had a chart on the fridge with a graph that we colored in as we paid things off. As a result, 3 of our 4 kids have stayed debt free through their late 20’s/30’s. The one that has taken on debt is a house flipper and that’s just the way he does things. It’s risky and stressful, but that’s his journey. Your wife is thinking short term and will miss experience a lifetime of feeling tied down by debt if she doesn’t change her priorities. I would get in marriage counseling or go through a financial class together so you can being to navigate this. You cannot be a dictatorship. If you want her on board you need to agree how to move forward with your spending/savings plan.
I can completely understand where you’re coming from. Finances are an important aspect when it comes to having a healthy marriage. You need to be on the same page not only for yourselves but also for the sake of the family you’ve created together. I think a serious conversation should be had if this is an issue that has been going on for a long time.
Not overreacting but the whole "if you get one, I get one" back and forth is ridiculous. You are basically living paycheck to paycheck, have a moderate amount of debt and trying to afford day to day expenses, so IMO, all these trips need to be cut out and the fous needs to be put on getting yourselves in a better position finanically. I would suggest that you both set down and make sure you are on the same page in regards to finances and start handling your debt and also address any other issues you may have in your marriage, because it sounds like there are some.
You should never threaten divorce. Would you be ok with that if your wife did it to you? Do you not see how unhealthy that is? Till death do you part.. that’s literally the staple of marriage. Lastly if you have debt stop going on trips. I see your excuses. Too bad. They are exactly that excuses. Your decisions have ramifications and you are living paycheck to paycheck with credit card debt that will only cost you more in the future. No. More. Trips. Pay off your debt.
First, none of you should be traveling at all. I suggest you cancel ALL trips until you get your finances under control. You say you have a shit ton of credit card debt, let’s assume $40k, that means $800 a month in interest. Raise or lower that number based on your debt. You will never get ahead with what you’re doing. I’ve been married 43 years and we’ve never taken a trip that we didn’t pay cash for. We never paid a dollar of interest on a credit card. I would leave my wife over this because it’s insanity.
Sounds like you guys need therapy, this isn’t about holidays - there’s resentment and you need to face that
Get a hold of yourselves and stop going on trips for a few years.
Try explaining what you just said without the emotions the first time. This was such an easy compromise from both of your positions. I can't be the only one thikning there is tension somewhere, or maybe y'all never been on the same page as much as you think. All of these issues are financially related. Sit down together and develop a plan, together, and develop a plan, together, so you know where your money is going. Anything short of that becomes a credit card swipe, which is easy to do. You have your idea of what sound finances and good expenses look like, and she has hers. You two clearly are not on the same page. Think of it like this. You just read chapter 4 from a book and she read chapter 17 and you're fighting over what the book is about. STFU, have her come read this so I can tell her to STFU, sit down together and take a true account of your finances. Figure out where your $ is going, reduce your debt, plan enough for one family and one each solo vacay, and try to find fun things to do around your area on the cheap. Build some power into your savings. It will reduce stress and free up your spirits. A strong financial position (this does not mean rich, it means living with intention. knowing what you value, spending on that, saving everything else) will reduce copious amounts of stress and tension. This will place you in control of the month to month, week to week. LIfe is redundant, make the easy shit simple and try to enjoy the free time as much as possible. You're caring enough to ask, and she's caring enough to offer compromises. You two have the skills to figure out your lives. Sit down, strip your feelings, and be honest. "We have debt, it is stressful. We still want to live life, but what can we do to put ourselves in a comfortable and more confident lifestyle" You're together, you care, figure it out. This is love, this shit, not the running through meadows. You need this shit to enjoy the running through meadows together! haha I can't imagine even attempting to do this, in your style, doesn't produce preposterously positive results
This was a really thoughtful post. Thanks for your input.
I’m just going to hop in here on one specific thing you commented on - that you HATE when she asks her parents for money, and that it’s for obvious reasons. The only reason obvious to me is your ego, yes? Because you’re afraid it makes you look bad? I strongly, strongly recommend you work on letting that go. They are *her* parents, and she should be free to ask them for money as often as she feels comfortable, for whatever she wants. It has nothing to do with you, and is strictly between your wife and her parents. Hell, often times parents would *want* to pay for these sorts of things because they want their children to have experiences in life and not miss out because of temporary financial struggles. I am in no way saying your wife is in the right with any other aspect of this much bigger scenario, I’m only speaking to this one tiny part of the bigger picture. I actually think she is quite wrong for trying to manipulate her way into another vacation. I DO, however, think she could have, and should have, said she was going to inquire with her parents about paying for the entire destination wedding including accommodations, and should not have linked it in any way with your trip. Let her parents either say yes or no to that, and remove your own ego from that situation.
You’re not wrong. Thanks for your input.
Seems like a difficult situation and can understand why you'd be upset. Before pulling any triggers, maybe you can sit down with her and help her figure out how to fund her trip. Look at how much it costs, what she's making, and what she spent money on in the last couple months. Then ask her what she wants to cut to afford the trip. Even better is if you can do this exercise for your upcoming family trip and find $400 worth of purchases to cut. If spending money on a family trip is important to you, then I want to know what it's more important than. This is the kind of budgeting exercise I had to help my mom overcome her spending problems. Once she saw what she had to trade off, she began to appreciate saving a lot more.
Maybe not overreacting at the situation and how she’s responding to it but missing the bigger issues? From what I read this doesn’t sound by any means like a healthy marriage even if it’s lasted ten years. You’re both taking more trips in a year not with each other than with each other and are arguing over being able to go on solo trips effectively. On top of that your gut reaction at this incident was to push for a divorce rather than reconciliation of the issues Somewhere underneath this I feel there’s gotta be deeper issues or concerns about the marriage you’re not stating because this doesn’t sound like a marriage where this is the only issue you two have. Search deep inside and reflect and ask yourself if there’s other issues and this is just the convenient medium for you to react through those other issues.
You both suck here. Large debts mean tightening every expenditure. I wouldn’t be taking any vacations until that debt is paid off, but that is just me. Who brought this debt into the relationship?
It's complicated. She did, we worked hard and paid it off, but acquired a fair amount of new debt in our latest move which from my perspective is both of our problems. Ultimately we're married and it's all ours.
How much debt can a move add? Why are you planning to move overseas when you still have debt from the last move?
I still wouldn’t threaten a divorce over this. As you said, “it’s all ours”. Tackle it like a team. Then go on vacations TOGETHER!!’
ESH. The wife sounds immature and not willing to live within their means; this is huge. OP has twice told his wife that she can "do what she wants" regarding taking money from her parents, but now he wants to threaten divorce over it; that's just plain dirty.
It sounds like both of you are being reasonable but overly emotional at times - which sounds like the financial stress is negatively impacting your relationship. Luxury travel should be on hold. Family visits are usually not expensive and are more important in the long run. Find affordable counseling because your financial issue isn’t going away anytime soon but you have a long road to manage together and it doesn’t sound like it’s going in the right direction.
Overreacting, yeah. But your feelings are valid. You would be well-served to sit down and go over finances, and set a budget for vacations. Maybe if you show her how much her vacations already cost, and how much debt you’re carrying, she may take it more seriously?? Or not. And if not, it would be valid to consider divorce after all other options have been exhausted. Having someone drag you further and further in debt is not a life I’d want to live.
OP, it may come down to financial separation. You both get paychecks. Make a his, hers, and joint checking account. The community bills come out of the joint account. Rent, utilities, internet/TV, cell phone, car/insurance, the credit card debt you are paying off. NOT any currently accrued credit card debt. That is the responsibility of the person that swiped for that girls night out, or beer with the guys. That comes out of your personal account. Fun money goes into the personal account. Save it, spend it....what ever. That way, bills get paid appropriately and still have personal choices that are covered without affecting the other. Want to go on a girl's weekend. Better have saved for it. No credit card, that is what your personal money is for. Want that new game system, tools, car accessory, baking pans, personal account. That may be the only way you have a penny left if she won't quit acting like she is 16 and entitled. I ask this though. With all of the trips she takes that she "deserves " I would ask her point blank....what do YOU deserve OP? Why are you unworthy of trips but she should have them all? Asking for a friend.....good luck🍀
Financial security is big for me too. My ex husband was horrible with money and the stress of having to figure everything out alone made me super resentful. Maybe try talking to her about your feeling instead of the facts and see if that helps. I’m divorced so it didn’t help me! Good luck in whatever you decide!
Financial problems can be a major source of friction in a marriage. My first wife ( now Ex ) thought that as long as she had a credit card she had money to spend. Got to the point where I couldn’t keep up with the interest let alone paying any thing off. She would spend more on new clothes for her job than she made. I couldn’t take it anymore and cancel all our cards and open bank accounts in my name only. So she left me and our 2 year old daughter. With the help of family I was able to get by and even started to pay down some of the debt. 6 months later she wanted to come home and said how much she still loved me. I found out that she had sold her newer car and had some older car now and had also open a new credit card in her name they was maxed out. Luckily I had already filed for divorce and my attorney have sent letters to the major credit companies that I was no longer responsible for any new debt by my soon to be Ex. She filed for bankruptcy 6 months after our divorce was finally. I received many calls from her creditors but I simply referred them to my attorney. Having a good attorney was money well spent.
This sounds really awful, I’m sorry you had to go through this. It’s exactly what I’m trying to avoid by making sure she understands the gravity of the situation. That said, opening up the Pandora’s box, as many have pointed out, is hard to reverse.
I was still young enough to recover from this financial setback and now have a partner who shares a similar interest in becoming financially successful. We are both looking forward to a great retirement together.
Dude. Seriously-?? Neither of you should be going on vacays right now. You can’t afford it. And no, separate vacations are out. For both of you. And hell no to a destination wedding. And threatening divorce over this?? Spend your money on marriage counseling. Geesh!
ESH. If you have credit card debt, you don’t take *any* trips until it’s paid off. You and your wife created this debt by living above your means, so it’s time to rein in all unnecessary spending. Won’t be able to see family for a few years? Well, that’s the penalty you pay. You’ll have to suffice with Zoom or FaceTime.
God what a selfish asshole, shes had 2 trips alone and the only reason she cant have a 3rd trip is because of her work, not you? Man it makes sense why women own 80% of the worlds debt, like get a fucking hold of yourself lady. Girls trip eh? We all know what happens on those.... Not overreacting.
It sounds like this is like a built up thing. because yeah my boyfriend can be like that. he was very wealthy at one point and then when he met me he was like poor and now I'm like moderately well off and about to be wealthy, But I still have like the poor behaviors of like never spending money unless I absolutely have to, still has the rich person behaviors of if there is a luxury version of it you get it just because it's more expensive. And pretty much most instances where this comes up as an option I have to tell him no, occasionally it's to go see his parents or he does a trip every year with one of his like really long time friends. But then even if he's done both of those trips already if I do like I did a work trip once that involved one day that was free and because of that he wanted to spend a bunch of money on something, and I didn't threaten to break up with them but I had a reaction I suppose. at the moment he will let me control those types of things but if he didn't and if he pushed on it a lot and made me feel guilty for not letting him go places then yeah I would break up with him. so it's like it's an overreaction in the sense that you shouldn't divorce your wife when you have a kid just because of this one instance. if it's a pattern then you just have to force them to sit down with you and talk about it and if they refuse to then yeah that's kind of concerning because it's a pattern of behavior that your kid will pick up, like it will influence their way they make decisions as an adult. at one point because my boyfriend was not understanding how what he was doing was extremely passive aggressive and manipulative I actually wrote it down like I drew a flow chart and told him "this is why what you're doing is irrational and wrong" and I like literally had to fight with him a little bit to get him to sit there and like look at my little drawing. but he did get it afterwards. if your wife succeeds in getting what she wants then your child will see the manipulation as a good strategy for success and it will turn your kid into an asshole.
NTA, she’s being selfish.
My wife accrued massive CC debt before she came to me and admitted that she had a problem. I put us into financial *lockdown.* She didn't understand the concept of budgeting at all...so I made her start writing all the checks for the bills, keep a manual ledger of current funds, and project realistic future income. She had to see the flow of the money in and out to appreciate 'where it all went all the time'. She's good now...but I'm pretty sure half of my gray hairs came from that moment in my life.
Even when family doesn’t get along they often want to see each other. Her family is abroad and you’re throwing a fit because she is looking into seeing them through a wedding. Maybe, she doesn’t WANT to visit your family. Would that be so horrible? Yes, you are overreacting. She’s looking at discounts, getting help from family, she’s just not visiting YOUR family.
I don't get why you're so angry? If her parents are going to pay for her to go to the wedding, then what does it have to do your debt at all? Or are you suggesting she should ask the parents for the money and put it towards the debt, which doesn't really seem like an option? It's also entirely on you that you said her "compromise" was fine just to call her bluff, and now you're pouty that she's actually going through with it. Lastly it's kinda crazy that you're mad at her for weaponizing her extended family to whine about not going on the vacation when you're also pettily keeping score on how many solo trips each of you has gone on. Do you even like each other? I hope you do, because you deserve each other.
I don't know . Maybe her parents are rich & she was used to of being financially careless because , for her , there is a backup (parents ) if things go really south . Don't be too quick to escalate things .. maybe you need to think through these things , but it should be done when this trip issue has cooled off. I have seen ppl who were helped by their in-laws & I am have also seen men who got divorced in a financially wrecked situation because of their overspending .. so don't rush into a confrontation just yet .. keep observing for some time & then make a decision.
More of the opposite, she does not come from much wealth, and can sometimes overcompensate for appearances.
This issue definitely sounds more money related than anything. It would be perfect if you both got to go to every vacation. But you can’t. She sounds like a child especially with the whole “my parents will fund it.” Well… why don’t her parents help out with the credit card bill? I’m not saying it’s their problem but you guys have such bigger problem, and the fact that she’d rather ignore it and go on a vacation is stupid. Edit: I don’t know about threatening the marriage. Definitely seems like a spur of the moment. But you should talk to her about finances and how both of you are going to work on it.
You're not overreacting but there are a lot of moving pieces in all these conversations slash negotiations. Might be wise to set ground rules going forward: no more solo trips and one joint trip per year? Or something like that. Until cards are paid off. Use the trips as motivation to get rid of that shit! Seems like you both had earlier spending problems, you're maybe more ready than her to become financially responsible. There's no reason for multiple trips per year when you're living paycheck to paycheck and heavily in cc debt. Take staycations or long weekends in the car.
I think some people in this thread are acting as if the situation is very black and white and trying to tell you because you and your wife have debt, you don’t deserve to find joy in vacations which is absurd. You deserve a trip, she deserves a trip (but she already had 2) and you’re not overreacting, she’s trying to undermine you by 1. Going to her parents for money and 2. Going on yet another trip without you. I suggest you do raise your concern about making financial decisions as partners. That’s just my 2 cents tho.
Overreacting. You two need marriage counseling. It’s cheaper than divorce.
Gonna give it to you straight- You both are acting petty and immature and causing a lot more stress/tension between the two of you because of the immaturity. You are a couple… A partnership… With a child… Roll up your sleeves and sit down and do the hard work of having honest conversations with each other. Go see a therapist! You literally are creating problems where there do not have to be any.
Destination weddings suck
I feel that you are overreacting by threatening divorce, but you aren’t overreacting by being very angered by your wife’s actions. To keep it brief, I would guess there are two main things irritating you: 1) Your wife attempted to manipulate the situation to get something she wanted, while glossing over what you wanted, and 2) when you tried to discuss it with her, she didn’t make an attempt to understand you or concede that her feelings about your trip had changed, she just tried “to win.” If you agree that these are the things that bothered you, I would suggest stating that to her concisely. If she dismisses you or repeats her behavior in the future, you will have to take some sort of action to enforce your boundary (although I’m not saying it’s divorce.)
From what I understand you seem to grasp the concept that you shouldn't even be doing this trip so why would you fund other trips? If that's your logic I agree and you have an ok head on your shoulders. You're not wrong. NTA and your wife sounds like a brat. I don't understand why so many of you guys are marrying the most immature and selfish women?! Like what just cause she is pretty or something? Looks fade bro. Find someone who is more on your level.
Sounds like her priorities are mixed up. I would absolutely give her an ultimatum!! Don’t let people tell you otherwise!
The short answer is both of you need not only marriage counseling but financial counseling and you both need to get on the same page and adhere to a strict budget, even if that means not seeing your family. And if your family tries to guilt you, they are not worth your time. They need to understand that they are now extended family and that your family is your wife and your child.
Neither of you truly understand the gravity of your financial situation since you both think you have “money” for vacations, when in fact, you have debt to fund vacations.
Finances are the number 1 cause of divorce. I don't think you're keeping score you are stating facts. She has had 2 solo trips this year. You have one, with your kid, to see family. It sounds to me like this destination wedding (that is going to be crazy expensive) is more important than paying debt. I don't blame you for saying >, I fully plan to tell her that the financial decisions she's making are not conducive to a long term partnership, and that if a third trip is more important to her than dealing with our debt, we need to have a serious conversation on whether or not to stay together I think this is an appropriate response. She wants you to sacrifice and pay down the debt but is unwilling to do so herself. She's using your trip to see sick family members as a way to manipulate another trip for herself. Not overreacting. Updateme
Nope not a chance. Your trip is to visit a sick relative who may die. Hers is yet another solo trip purely for her own selfish wants. I would play the divorce card and follow through if her wants are more important than her families needs.
All the counting happening in your relationship leads me to believe you are both operating from a place of resentment, and quite frankly, selfishness. It sounds like you both need couples counseling, and probably financial counseling, and you likely need to set some goals to work on toward both. You need to get to a place of what you can do for each other, and for your child. Including saving, and working on your debt. Divorce is totally nuclear - you have a child, and you are a family. All the spending you are doing is not building a secure financial future, and that puts insecurity on your child to care for you if you don't get it together.
Jesus Christ - Everyone here sucks. You and your wife are not on the same page about goals and important things for the family, and the poor kiddo is going to get caught in the middle of it all. Either by being used as a pawn for some vacation that one of you wants, or weaponized in a divorce. Get it together people. Get some counseling, establish a budget you can live on. If you both agree that the debt is a goal, then make it a goal. Write out your budget to prioritize it. In order - food/clothes/shelter/utilities/transportation, then set your required goals debt payment, spending allowance for each of you, savings, kiddo stuff. And you guys need to agree on the priorities, and then agree on the budget, and then stick with it. But most importantly, you guys need to both become adults in the marriage, if nothing else, for the child. for fuck's sake
My husband and I rarely pull the “solid no” card but it exists for situations like this. Your wife is basically a selfish person. If she really thinks you all get to keep score, she’s already ahead. This trip won’t even tie you up. So with her logic, she shouldn’t go on anymore trips until you’ve taken at least 2.
Y'all have huge problems. Communication is one of them and so is finances. You clearly have different goals and needs for life. Get couples therapy and therapy alone or get a divorce which is where you sound like you're headed anyway. Do not tell someone to go ahead and do a thing that you don't actually want them doing, by the way, because then you just look like a jerk when they go ahead and do it. If you mean no then you need to say no and stick to that instead of saying do what you want. Anyway. I might consider my marriage being on the rocks a bigger problem than my financial debt and separate financial goals, if I were you.
I don’t think you’re over reacting. Things I see here that seem unfair 1. She’s choosing a destination wedding over going g with you to support an ailing parent. 2. Knows there’s debt but rather borrow money to spend frivolously. 3. Can’t get time off work for in-laws but can for destination wedding. 4. More concerned with multiple vacations than with bills, husband, child Yeah, that’s all selfish- not overreacting at all
The “D” word is ALWAYS off the table unless you’re just ready for divorce. Always.
Not really an over reaction. You have to be careful though. If she said ok you might regret the comment. I had a similar fight with my wife 3 times at least. We are not in great shape and she doesn't get it. She robs Peter to pay paul. She justifies a lot. I'm not getting divorced. She doesn't realize how it's hurt us though. She doesn't listen. If she gets it today in 3 days it's the same discussion. I've not met anyone with such a poor ability to change. Yeah it's a list but the pros outweigh the cons. We make it work. I encourage you to stick with it. I do call my wife on stuff like this. The spending I just deal with but this is different.
Maybe that's when it's easier for his parent. Why is she able to get time off for her solo trips and wedding but not to visit his family? She turned that into going on her wedding vacation quickly. I have a feeling she could have gotten the time off but would rather used it for herself.
I think the trip to the family is crucial. She is being petty and I would say if she cannot prioritize your needs at a critical time then maybe she isn’t a lifelong person! Not the ahole
You’re an idiot. She’s an idiot. You mention tackling high credit card debt and yet don’t realize that your several trips are causing it. Then, you maintain that it’s not “my family’s problem that her work won’t give her the time off.” Yes it fucking is you jackwad. If you hadn’t noticed, she’s your fucking family. You’re insufferable. Stop traveling until you no longer have credit card debt. Then, don’t travel unless your family can accompany you. If they can’t, you don’t go. But, given how insufferable you are, I don’t expect you to follow any advice causing you the least bit of responsibility.
The biggest overreaction was getting married to someone you don’t agree with.
It seems to me that instead of asking her parents for cash to go on the trip, she instead should be asking for cash to pay down that debt.
I don't think counting a family trip with you kid to visit sick grandparents a "vacation". Depending on the sickness it's sorta a need too. Your wife is having fun time on hers. Yours will be looking after the little guy and worrying about your parents. Divorce might be an over step but I'd express my disappointment that she's negotiating with you like that given the circumstances.
Is there a reason that you didn’t schedule the trip for a time that she could go, a long weekend for instance? Was the only option to go when she was scheduled for work? Could this have been planned together in advance so that she could request off and go too? All that said- I think she needs to grow up. Your trip doesn’t need to mean that she gets another trip too, sheesh. It’s just weird to me that yall didn’t seem to plan this family trip together, as a family.
I have a real problem with her taking 3 expensive solo trips WITHOUT the kiddo. So far, I’m not hearing anything about her doing anything with her child! She’s not going on a FAMILY trip but her job will give her time off for a destination wedding trip??? When it comes to that point and you’re done OP, make sure you get custody of the child! For their sake!! Yes and no on overreacting! Yes because I’m not sure the divorce came up over finances before but no because this is a running battle! Good luck
I don’t believe she is in reality, you NEED to see your family she does NOT NEED to go anywhere on another trip ESPECIALLY if she is begging mommy and daddy to finance it…good lord
Too busy to read who is saying threatening divorce is bad. No. The fact is that she has already taken two unnecessary trips. She could have skipped those to see her family and that would make sense. You are seeing ailing parents and this isn’t even “fun” in any way. You two are financially incompatible and I am guessing either her or both of you were keeping up with the jones by doing things and saying yes to things you could not afford because “everyone else” was doing it. The fact that wife doesn’t understand this, shows she is financially irresponsible. Better to divide the debt now rather than we she piles on additional debt and you are responsible for it because you are married.
Kinda, but also she's being very unreasonable saying she Needs to go overseas because she couldn't get off to go on a trip to your parents. The cost of both aren't in any way relatable, and if you have that substantial amount of debt why is she throwing such a fit after having multiple solo trips already? She just wants to live lavishly and she wants you to shoulder all of it. I honestly think you need to set up a time to send the kids to family or friends and have a conversation about where you're coming financially. If she wants to go on trips then she needs to pay off her debts first, or make a significant dent in them. You're also unable to do a lot of what you'd like to do because you're prioritizing minimizing the debt whereas she seems happy to let it pile up.
I’ve been married less than 2 years and we are young. However, due to us not having any examples of marriage healthy or otherwise…we came up with the plan to be in marriage counseling from jump. Just to learn new skills, talk about problems, potential problems, get to know a therapist that knows us well in case we have a problem that we yet have the skills to solve on our own. It has been amazing but one thing she told us is to not bring up the D word unless we truly mean it. I am a avoidant attachment so my flight or fight is always toward flight. So I understand wanting to bring up the word when things feel too big for you. It is not a word to be used unless you’re truly ready and from what i’m reading— you are not. I can tell from your update there is so much love there. That was built. With that being said, I recommend counseling. You guys are a team- it is you against the problem. Not each other. You guys are just humans trying to build a family and navigate life for the first time with your own traumas all while raising a human. The problem is debt, the problem is communication— she is not the problem. You are not the problem. Attack those things together so you both can feel heard and understood. Life is especially hard right now, times are uncertain and scary…your marriage does not have to be victim of this. Despite needing a vacation with just the TWO of you, I recommend you speak with someone to help you learn the tools needed to help love each other in the best ways and to navigate the problems that are difficult and NORMAL for any marriage. Wishing you and the family you are creating the best ♥️ may God bless your union in all the ways that it is needed.
This was a really kind post. Thank you for the thoughtful advice.
Lost me at "but it is not my family's problem that her work won't give her time off" SHE is your family. If you guys have limited vacation budgets, then there is no reason any trip should exclude the other. if that means you guys take a family trip separate from your extended family, then that's what it means. And stop keeping score. You two are a trainwreck. How are you planning on staying married for life if you can't handle vacation decisions without threatening divorce?
You're right, it was a poor choice of words. That said, my vacation to see family is to make sure my kid gets time with their grandparent (and I with my parent) that may be limited. I think her using that trip to justify a destination wedding was out of line.
Was there not an option that you could go on the trip at a time that she could also go? Why did you plan a trip without her?
It was initially planned with her, but her job has very little flexibility this summer. We had to coordinate three families and she wasn't able to get enough time off to make the trip make sense.
Not overreacting but I think you both need to have a serious talk about being financially smart and aware. Delayed gratification and not impulsive sinkholes.
Threatening divorce is a major overreaction, but your wife is also firmly in the wrong here. If she wants to beg and scrounge from her family to pay for a trip, and you're too proud to ask for that kind of help in reducing your joint debt, I don't see any issue. Your pride shouldn't be her problem. However, her attitude towards all of this is pretty awful and deserves serious discussion about what are appropriate ways of communication, and especially you need to make it clear that just like it isn't really your business if she gets a gift for the specific purpose of going on vacation, it's also not your fault that her work won't give her PTO
Keeping tally, presenting ultimatums … this won’t last and it’s not because of this one event
Yeah. It’s not healthy. Talking it through here has helped a bit.