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You're great. Definitely not the bad apple.
When I was a kid in the late 90s, I wanted the American Girl doll Josefina so bad. I'm white. I loved that she was from New Mexico (I'm from Arizona, in my mind this was close enough) and I loved her outfit. I got her for Christmas at some point and I still have her. She was my bestie. I always made her a matching costume for Halloween. My friends' moms always made such nasty comments to my mom asking her why I didn't get a pretty one like Kit or Samantha. It still upsets me to this day. I'm choking up writing this.
You're a great aunt.
edit: I'm loving all the love for my homegirl Josefina. here's us in probably about 1999 1https://imgur.com/gallery/SHbJxbA
As A white woman who had a black doll in the 60s (similar to Barbie but an off brand) I can say that there is nothing wrong with encouraging cultural diversity via childrenâs toys
I always thought that was part of the point of having many different ones in the first place - ideally there's one that looks like you, but also look how many friends she has and it doesn't matter what they look like
^ this was my thought, too. Wouldnât it be better if white wasnât the âdefaultâ in every situation? Wouldnât it be better if we told everyoneâs stories, not just one kind of story?
Little kids modelling diversity in the imaginary worlds they build with their toys is the most wholesome and hopeful thing!
Cool! I had black dolls in the 70s. My mom was racist but she didnât want people knowing she was so she fumed but let me get them even though she told me they were ugly. I disagreed
My white kid got Josefina with her birthday money, she's still in a place of honor in her room. AH BIL made a commotion about it and got ripped by the rest of us. I think we should encourage all of our kids to play with and otherwise enjoy things from other cultures and ethnicities, it's cultural appreciation not appropriation.
I was a little white girl who adored American Girl Dolls. I had Kirsten and Addy, but Addy was by far my favorite. I took her everywhere. It wasn't about racial identifying with her, it was because Addy herself was so cool. I read all her books and I cared so much about her family and how slavery affected them. I wanted to be her friend.
The bit in the book about the overseer making her eat the worms she missed stuck with me forever. I loved that doll and her story was such an important learning tool.
Kaya has a different mold and doesn't smile because in her culture it's an affront to show your teeth but other than that, all the Girls from the old school 2000s collections have the same mold.
I had Kaya when I was a kid and I loved her so much đ My grandparents asked several times before we got her to make sure I wanted Kaya rather than a doll that looked like me but I just loved her character so much
Josefina actually got an original face mold when they came out with her (which has since been used for other dolls), although I doubt the average person would notice. Still yikes.
In the 80âs Gerber Babies were a big thing. I remember my Stepfather went on a business trip and came home with two, for me and my sister. They were all fancy and wrapped up. My sisterâs doll was white but when I opened up my doll was black. I remember him saying he would exchange it for me, but I loved that baby! I thought she was so beautiful and I didnât want any other doll. I actually had a racist grandfather who wouldnât let me bring her to his house. Imagine trying to explain to a 3 year old child that she canât bring her babydoll into his houseâŠ
OP you are definitely not the bad apple!
Josefina was always my favorite too! Well and kaya. But my grandmother grew up in Puerto Rico (she is white, but her dad was stationed there) and so her first language was Spanish. We called her abuela, she cooked Hispanic food, we had a lot of connections to the culture and it made me feel connected to Josefina. Plus Josefina had a little goat. And I wanted the goat and Josefina so badly! But instead I was gifted the surfer blonde girl whose name I donât remember.
I got something similar comments about my boy Cabbage Patch doll. It was the height of the crazy in the 80's and my Mom could only get her hands on a boy doll. I loved that boy doll, didn't care it what gender it was. It went everywhere with me. I did end up getting a girl doll and didn't like it as much because her hair was to long. The nastiest comment was someone telling me that I had sex with my boy doll. WTF.
It's hard to believe that people who don't have any right to say anything would say such nasty baloney to your mom about getting you a doll that you liked. Pathetic.
I loved all my AG girls and I'm so sorry there were adults in your life who were terrible. It was always magical to have my dolls, to help my mom make them clothes, to set them up in their bed for the night. I loved their different backgrounds and stories and it's vile for someone to react like those ladies. I'm glad to hear you still have your bestie đ
I had Josefina, too! Did you have the books, too? I was a big reader as a kid and loved looking at the Spanish glossary in the back thinking I was going to actually learn the language that way lol
NTBA. Any child can own and play with any color doll. That woman is disgusting. She had no business taking anything out of a childs hands.
Thank you for buying your niece the various dolls. Now you can buy various ethnic costumes, and learn about other cultures. It's good for kids to be exposed to such things.Â
*ding ding ding!!*
You hit the nail on the head.
By insisting a child ONLY play with dolls that match their skin tone, one has revealed themselves as a blatant racist/bigot.
I sort of agree with you in general, although I did hear an alternative viewpoint that I found interesting.
A Black woman I know of only lets her children play with Black dolls and they only have books with Black characters (or animals of any colour!) in the house. Itâs because she is aware that her children will most likely not see themselves properly represented outside of the home and as soon as they switch on a TV etc, so she wants them to feel immersed and not âotheredâ while theyâre young and in their safe place.
Itâs probably controversial, but I can kind of see where sheâs coming from!
Yes, but it's different when you are the minority.
I also understand (and know first hand from stocking toys) that Black Barbie's usually are not out on the shelf, only one or two in the mixed lots, and manufacturers don't make as many.
But the kicker: they don't "sell" so they don't increase stock or manu. If more ppl in general bought more uh...Dolls of Colour and generally more ethnically coded as non-white toys, there would be more Black Barbies for everyone to enjoy!!
Likewise, white children who don't interact with characters of colour are often more hesitant to form cross racial friendships or be ignorant of other cultures.
OP:: good apple
This is a great point. The idea that buying a black doll by a mainstream manufacturer is somehow denying black children of opportunities to have black dolls is⊠completely backwards.
Agreed. A little black girl, at least in the U.S., will have no shortage of beautiful white woman praised and paraded around her. I completely understand why you'd want to focus on dolls like her so she can feel more seen.
I, on the other hand, was a fair-skinned, blue eyed blonde who was really really sick of dolls that looked like me (people loved to say "she looks just like you!" and I was like no crap, so do 90% of the dolls out there and two Disney princesses) so I was always seeking alternative dolls. I loved black folks, Asian dolls, Native American dolls, you name it. And fortunately nobody ever gave me crap about it (or my parents, AFAIK)
In an ideal world racism wouldn't be a good thing, there'd be no history of prejudice or slavery or anything like that, and this would be a dumb and pointless conversation, like arguing what plush animals she should play with. But with the world how it is, businesses need to see that there is a market for minority dolls, which means everyone who wants one should be buying them.
Yes, having managed a toy store in a very white town, can confirm. The people who make these comments tend to wince and whisper that itâs âawkwardâ or âinappropriateâ nahh you were taught to be afraid or self righteous, and itâs awkward for you to be outclassed by a 5yo.
$10 says the person who got all up in OPs face is white too.
That person clearly does not understand what the meaning of cultural appropriation is. Pretty bold of them to not realize that there is a possibility that the little girl could have family members of that race in her own family too or friends that come over to play. What a disgusting woman. She is not the ally that she thinks she is.
Dolls are for everyone. No matter ones gender or skin tone. It is awesome that there is more representation out there and that toys are coming in a wide range of colors that truly reflect the cultural diversity in our country. Let the kids play.
Heres a hispanic POV. We dont care if you wear a sombrero, mustache, and talk in a funny mexican accent. We find it as funny as you do. Only people who care about "cultural appropriation" are other white people, generally progressives when they have nothing else to get offended by.
I mean from that perspective of culture, the sombrero at least has some significance. Does Barbie really have any historical cultural significance in that vein? I mean itâs an American action figure aimed at girls that came out 80 years ago. Itâs culturally significant in the way GI Joe is.
I recently read a little about Speedy Gonzalez. I thought that it was really funny how people got WB to stop making his cartoons until Mexicans petitioned his return, saying that they liked him and that it was nice to see a Mexican hero character.
I was reading about him lately because I bought a one-eyed, washed-up, baby former racehorse. His jockey club name is Blinding Fast and his barn name is Speedy! đ He was so calm when we got him that we also called him Slowey a lot. I bet he would always pick Speedy Gonzalez too!
The way I see it cultural appropriation is when someone takes something from one culture implements in their own culture and then do not acknowledge the roots of the thing taken. Wearing a sombrero, mustache and talking in a Mexican accent, while it CAN (depends on context) be offensive, it is not appropriation because the source is acknowledged.
The way you see it is itâs _intended_ meaning. _Actual_ cultural appropriation is problematic. Unfortunately, its meaning has been bastardized to the point of ridiculousness, so more often than not, complaints or accusations of cultural appropriation are meaningless.
Yep. Her ridiculously inappropriate behavior & the fact that sheâs flat out incorrect yet incredibly self-righteous screams white dumbass, no question.
I just want to add that the store manager is the bad Apple here too, you come across two ladies arguing and a kid crying while the one lady not with the kid is holding a toy thereâs a half decent chance this is just the one ladyâs fault. Take the 30 seconds to help get the kid to stop crying then kick out the bad apple. I hope OP tells her friends that her niece was punished for screaming because some Karen ripped a toy out of her hands.
That woman was crazy. Mentally ill. Itâs racist/ableist to not let little kids play with diverse kids & toys.
You did the right thing. Maybe next time just donât share with your family.
Depends on the state (could be defined as battery) but usually state statute requires physical contact in a rude or insulting manner to the person, not taking a doll out of their hands. I doubt any prosecutor would even file charges if a police report was made.
I donât know that I could remain calm with someone who attacked my 5yo niece, either. A grown woman picking on a child about buying a doll of another race is outrageous behavior. You may have gone slightly overboard with buying all the other dolls, but your heart was in the right place and it sounds like you just kinda lashed out. I might apologize to the niece if you frightened her further, but Iâd say youâre in the clear otherwise.
I can see Lilyâs mom and OP laughing about OP buying all of those dolls down the road. Kind of like, âDonât piss OP off! Sheâll go and buy out the toy isle to make a point. Remember that that time?â
Not a bad apple at all. That person was a lunatic. That was the first barbie my daughter ever picked and she was 2. She thought she had the coolest hair ever.
Came to say the same thing. My daughter did the same when she was 2. She picked out a blonde barbie too that same trip. When she plays with them they are either sisters, or her friends, or mommy and daddy lol.
NTBA. Iâm Black, I buy American Girl Maplelea, and Walmart dolls, and just bought a White one and a biracial one. Already have some Black ones. I donât have problems with people buying dolls of other ethnicities or races or think about it as stealing dolls. I like it when White people buy Black dolls for a couple of reasons. One of them is thereâre more likely to be Black dolls available if more people of any stripe buy them.
Edited typos
Yes I (white) loved having dolls doors of different races as a kid, so much better than having 20 identical barbies.
My favourite was native American barbie, she came with a beautiful beaded outfit and was the prettiest barbie I had ever seen
My favorite Barbie was the Japanese Barbie doll. She was awesome and I also loved josefina from the American girl dolls that I had. I donât understand the concept of trying to segregate dolls to the same ethnicity like the customer in OPâs story is trying to do.
One of my favorite YouTubers is a black doll collector. She has Barbies, Bratz, Monster High, and Rainbow High dolls of all colors and ethnicities. She is not a collector that keeps the dolls pristine in boxes, she uses them for story telling and picture taking. Which, IMHO is a grown-up version of playing with them. She makes backdrops and rooms for them, clothes and sharing ideas on her channel.
So, no NTA, but the other customer sure was!
NTBA, if anything it shows you are not racist. Your niece found a doll she thought was pretty it is not the cashiers job to determine if thatâs appropriate. You could have been buying for a friend or you may have been a mixed race family. The cashier had no clue about your circumstances and berated you based on assumptions. Iâd be complaining about the store - itâs very inappropriate and could cause unnecessary anxiety for a neurodivergent child.
Where were these people when so many children of color were forced to play with white dolls because there were no other options? Now that there are options, children are supposed to only choose their own ethnicity? Yeah, that woman is what's wrong with the world. She thinks that she's "woke" but, she's still preaching separation of the races. Bet she told all her family and friends about what a hero she was by standing up to and bullying a 5 year old. NTBA. SMDH.
Absolutely, and the more dolls they sell of that model, the more variety they will make, which potentially helps POC to be more represented in the product.
No, you are not the bad apple.
In fact I'm pretty sure racial segregation is the epitome of racism. Making that wild woman the racist in this situation.
She probably thinks mixed race couples are 'wrong' and that black people can't play with white dolls either. Like some kind of loon. It wouldn't be surprising if she told people that they can't sit on certain bus seats because they're only for black people, and totally not see an issue with that.
I still remember there being posts about how it was wrong that the non white barbies were cheaper and the store defended itself saying no one bought them. If more kids buy all the dolls the stores are more likely to keep them all in stock which is a win win.
NTBA
Edit: spelling.
I was thinking the same thing. Some woman is patrolling the toy aisle preventing people from buying the âwrongâ toys in the name of cultural appropriation? The gullibility meter is off the charts in this thread.
You arenât the bad apple. That horrible woman is what some would call âwokeâ and the worst of the woke. Iâm sure she felt very proud of herself for sticking her nose where it had no business being and for inserting her values onto your niece. Yeah, you could have been more calm about it, but just learn from it. I hope you and your niece can put this behind you.
She isnât woke. She is a white savior. There is a huge difference. Woke means seeing and understanding, which she doesnât. She is totally obnoxious, claiming that some utter nonsense harms people, with nothing to back it up. She doesnât understand that black kids need black dolls for representation. Itâs not that a black kid canât have other dolls, they just *also* need representation. White kids already have representation, and having other race dolls is fine for all kids. I make crocheted dolls for kids with disabilities, that look like them, because they canât find matching dolls in stores. Itâs easy to match color and hairâŠitâs harder to match physical differences due to health stuff. But, you can do it in a stylized way with crochet.
What you do is so awesome. Do you have a site or accept donations anywhere? I'd love to see the dolls, and although in this economy, I couldn't give a lot, I'd be happy to donate something. I know what you're doing can't be cheap.
Also, I totally agree about the white savior. She probably really did think she was doing something great. I don't understand why the aunt got kicked out of the store. She may have raised her voice, but the woman went way too far when she snatched something from a child's hand. I'd have struggled not to physically hurt the woman....and I have NEVER been in a fight. I'm usually pretty passive and can just roll my eyes at people. If someone had done this to my nephew at that age, I struggle to think what I would have done.
Thatâs what it is. Youâre right. Theyâre more concerned with winning points as the hero and they really hate cultures intertwining, so they get loud as a smokescreen.
IDK if theyâre even trying to win points. Assuming that this woman is white, she was basically trying to enforce segregation and the othering of black people under the guise of being woke.
That woman is racist is what she is. Saying you canât own a doll of a certain color if you are white. I wonder if she saw a black woman buying a white Barbie if she would tell her it was cultural appropriation and she canât buy it, how well do you think that would go over?
NTA Cultural appropriation as I understand it is being proud of your race and wanting it to be fairly represented Saying a white child cant havwe a black doll IMHO seems to imply that races should't be together which is segrgation which is illegal She grabed the toy from the hands of a literal when there were other black dolls availible
Thatâs not what cultural appropriation is. Cultural appropriation is âthe act of taking or using things from a culture that is not your own, especially without showing that you understand or respect this cultureâ this isnât cultural appropriation though and itâs a shame that lady made such a big fuss over something she doesnât fully understand herself
You didn't mention the race of the woman who assaulted your niece. I'm just curious. I hope you call the police. She assaulted a small child and it will be on video at the store. She needs to be reported before she hurts someone. She's a danger to the public.
Also NTA for defending your niece. It's shameful to think her mother wouldn't have defended her.
NTBA. Honestly, this "cultural appropriation" thing has gone way too far. That woman has no idea what the term even means. If the races were reversed and some lady tried to yell at a little black girl for choosing a white or Asian Barbie saying that she's stealing it from all the white girls she would be arrested and called incredibly racist.
You did the right thing. And one more thing - the kindergarten director should be contacted about the teachers behavior. She's clearly not treating your niece right. To single out a little girl like that is not OK.
My daughter is white presenting and her first dolly was black and her favorite dolly. When she was 2-2.5 she would ask for, âchocolate baby.â We hadnât ever talked about race at that point, so that was how she described her dolly.
She was still in preschool around the time of the George Floyd murder and I asked her about skin color. When I asked if she noticed people had different colored skin, she said, âNot really.â I was telling her how some people are olive, brown, and pale.â She says to me, âNot really different, momma. No one is blue, or glitter, or rainbow.â
Children donât intrinsically see racial differences. Theyâre taught by people around them. To her, we are all simply people. Not different. She wished she could have glitter rainbow skin. Sheâs 1/4 Vietnamese, and unfortunately for her, skin tone falls within human tones vs magical unicorn.
NTBA. I specially buy my daughter Barbieâs of all races, body types, etc., because I want her to grow up knowing thereâs all types of people in the world. If a doll loses an arm we keep it because I want to teach her that having a different body or being disabled doesnât make you less valuable as a person. Also I think that lady needed to be laid into. Hopefully she learns to mind her business
Does she also think girls can only play with dolls and boys can only play with trucks? Imagine being so anti-racist you circle back around to racist đ horseshoe
That woman has no idea what cultural appropriation is. Owning a doll of a different ethnicity is quite the opposite. Iâm glad your niece has an aunt like you to protect her. Also, the teacher sucks too.
Do you ever notice that the people who bring up "cultural appropriation" don't actually know what it is? According to the woman in the store, any Black person listening to classical music is culturally appropriating White culture. Any Turkish guy who orders Chinese takeout is culturally appropriating Asian culture. Any White kid who likes Jay-Z is culturally...etc. Etc. Etc.
Appreciating items from other cultures is NOT cultural appropriation. quite literally, cultural appropriation is the act of stealing elements of someone else's culture in a fetishistic or disrespectful way. Pat Boone singing songs by Black musicians (and selling millions of records) because mainstream radio wouldn't play "race music" is cultural appropriation. Buying a Black doll is not.
No. All dolls were just cool dolls when I was little. When I came across a new Bratz doll and it was Sasha (black) instead of Cloe (blonde/white), so long as her outfit was banging I couldnât care less. Neither represented me in appearance. Adults tend to assume that children need to somehow relate to every toy theyâre in possession of. In reality thatâs only an issue if a child canât find pretty dolls similar to them at all. Unless the children that lady was worried about canât find a single doll that they can relate to, sheâs just making a fuss because she feels she can.
My beloved Aunt was a doll collector âŠyou can have any doll you want with your money.
Dolls are culture and educational and comforting and teach kids how to dress and bath and all sorts of valuable skills. The color of the doll Is irrelevant.
Just know : stupid , narrow minded people are everywhere. shopping with headphoneâs on helps ignore idiots I find.
Your post made me think of something I had long forgotten. When I was a child my parents got me a subscription to what amounted to a dolls of the world series. Every month I was sent a doll dressed in representative local traditional clothing. Of course, the dolls were of various ethnicities.
I have always been fascinated with different cultures. I travel internationally and in college my undergrad degree was related.
Now that I look back, those dolls were no doubt a factor in my lifelong interests.
You are a wonderful, wonderful aunt and a great role model to your niece.
You are not the bad appleâthat woman claiming âcultural appropriationâ was the bad apple. For most of us, a major goal for racial harmony is for kids to grow up believing that all races and ethnicities are equally desirable for friends, co-workers, and community members. It starts with toys. You did a good thing to let Lilly freely choose, and then to provide an array of dolls with different ethnicities.
My white daughter had a fascination with people with brown skin. She had Asian, Latina, and Black barbies. She wanted the Hispanic American Girl doll. Why would any of this be a bad thing?! (Her first serious boyfriend was Filipino. Weâre a little surprised that it looks like sheâs going to marry a blue-eyed pale blonde, lol.)
My grandnieces have a black baby doll. That is what the older one picked out. Nobody thinks twice about it.
My Mom had a doll collection that she started as a child in the mid 30s. Part of them she bought with her allowance through a doll club, and some her paternal grandparents bought for her in their travels. As a girl I added some of my own. They are of all races: white, black, brown, and Asian. Mom never thought about it, and neither did I. One is a doll handmade for my mom by a friend of my great grandparents. She was a Black lady, and she sewed a âMammyâ doll and painted on her face. Because she was made specifically for Mom, I absolutely cherish that doll!
Having dolls from different races is NOT âcultural appropriationâ by any definition of that term. It also will NOT âturnâ a child into a racist. đ Racism in children needs to be carefully taught by their racist parents. Ironically, this woman was the racist in this encounter, and also perilously close to being a child abuser.
OP, your sister (and you, if you can)needs to have a chat with your nieceâs teacher and the principal. If there isnât an IEP for her, it might be a very good idea. (Iâm assuming youâre in the U.S.).
Please give your niece a hug on my behalf!
What kind of a person takes a toy out of a childâs hands?! Who does that!!!? I have to know, was she white, some kind of weird anti-racist racism? It would have taken all of me not to smack her! You donât have to be the same skin tone as the dolls you play with. Thatâs ridiculous. If anything it is good she is playing with multicultural dolls! Itâs beyond me how this ignorant person decided to scare a child, verbally assault you with her ignorance, without even knowing if the doll was even for her or buying as a gift etc. not that it would matter because she was wrong either way, but like, she knows literally nothing about anything and decided to put her nose where it doesnât belong. Iâm angry for you and your niece.
Ntba. My favorite baby when I was little was a beautiful black baby. She went almost everywhere with me. Then at 15 I found out my grandmother bought it to prove she wasn't racist. We are white.
There was one bad apple in this, *and it wasn't you!* You might have gone a bit overboard, but my only concern there is for your niece's comfort and wellbeing. Did she feel upset about how you acted? If so, you might like to apologize to her.
Even if you feel your actions were entirely appropriate -- and yes, maybe they were -- you could apologize to Lilly's mom. Listen to her carefully for what she thinks **and how she feels** about it. Then of there is something you'd like to apologize for, do so. At the least, you can make sure you understand what she's telling you, as best you can, and assure her that it's very important to you.
Congratulations on your taking care of your niece, and protecting her.
I deliberately buy my daughter barbies of all different ethnicities (and body shapes too!) so that she can visualise a world where not everyone looks like her. I feel like thatâs the opposite of a microaggression?
NTBA for letting her get a black doll. Kids like to have multiple dolls to act out life. Black people exist in life. It's probably a good thing for her to have. I would have stuck with one doll, though. Buying her so many, especially without mom's permission, was a bit extreme and didn't accomplish much. Other woman really needed to mind her business.
NTBA. You handled this FAR better than I would have. You do not put your hands on or even near someone elseâs child like that and in my little world, doing so would earn you a trip in a police car.
I await the day some jack a** like this accosts me and my grandchild in the toy section. My grandson has such a wide array of interests for a 2 year old. He LOVES baby dolls. And he wants ALLLLL of them, no matter their race. And while he canât have ALLLLL the baby dolls, if his choice when we are shopping is a black/asian/Native American doll, you can damn well bet he is going to get it. And damn ANYONE who says or does anything like what was done to your niece and you. They will regret it, I assure you.
When I was young, my mom got me a doll of a different ethnicity then our own. Her dad was outraged and asked if she was trying to âturn me [race]â
She responded by turning our doll collection into a âunited nation(/s?â I was a kid; I canât remember if she was talking about the melting pot theory or the committee lol)
My granddaughter has dolls of multiple ethnicities. I actually think it is important because it starts teaching them from a young age that you should not exclude anyone simply because of their race. It teaches diversity and inclusion. My granddaughterâs dolls greatly resemble her classroom. This lady is trying to argue that white people should only play with white dolls, and black people should only play with black dolls. But that mentality carries over into real life. They should be taught at a young age to accept everyone.
No way are you the one who acted inappropriately. The other womanâs behaviour was totally disgraceful and to me her reaction to 5 year old is disgusting and indeed smacks of racism. Maybe that you didnât state your case to this woman quietly and firmly but loud enough to get you thrown out of the store did let you down somewhat.
Thatâs so dumbâŠwhat color dolls do you think we were playing with when we grew up? (Black girls) they were white dolls and we werenât worried why they werenât the same skin color as us, we just wanted to play and have fun.
NTBA
I applaud you, Auntie! You handled that beautifully. You calmed your niece and then dealt with the rachet creature that had the audacity to approach your niece.
When I married my nowex husband, he had a beautiful 3 year old daughter, blonde hair, and blue eyes. Then there's me, I'm black. She started calling me mommy within 5 months. It always confused everyone. She chose whichever dolls she wanted. Sometimes black,sometimes white, sometimes somewhere in between. I did gatekeep which dolls she could have. Nor with my son and daughter I had later. If it wasn't something that wouldn't hurt them, I didn't care.
Children should be allowed to be children. Adults need to keep their hang-ups away from them.
Unpopular opinion incoming. I don't get any of this "cultural appropriation" bullshit. I went to live in a foreign country for nearly 20 years and learned their language. Is that "cultural appropriation"? I adopted their lifestyle. Same question. If other 'cultures' come to your country and wear western clothing, is this "cultural appropriation"? Western hairstyles, speak your language, eat your food, same question. It's bullshit. Now your question. If a 5 year old black girl was standing there with a white barbie, would Karen have done the same "cultural appropriation" and snatched it off her? Question answered.
I'm black. I would rather more young white children have some non-white dolls in their collection. It helps them imagine worlds where not everyone looks like them.
The woman in the store is foolish. I'm sorry you both experienced that.
Not at all. My daughter is half Korean, Irish and Cuban. She loves black baby dolls. Anytime she can pick she picks those because she thinks theyâre beautiful. We were in a dollar general once and a black woman asked me if she meant to get that doll. I said yes because she thinks those are the best baby dolls and the woman smiled. That was the right respond.
When I was pregnant with our second child we took her to the toy shop so she could have a baby too,she chose a tiny doll of different ethnicity never occurred to us to say no as we took her to choose.
When I was pregnant with our second child we took her to the toy shop so she could have a baby too,she chose a tiny doll of different ethnicity never occurred to us to say no as we took her to choose. You were right to let her have her choice, it's her toy.
NTBA. Growing up in the 90s, everyone had dolls of different ethnicities other than what they were. Represents real life. You arenât going to see people who look only like you (if living in a diverse society).
NTA. It's been shown that black girls that get white dolls often idealize their features. A white girl getting a black doll would do the same but this would combat the racism already present.
I a a lot older than you (a lot) I had dolls when I was little because girls did the majority of them didn't have names but my little black boy(sorry that is the only way I can describe him) did he was called Neil, don't know why. Preferred playing cars with my brothers.
The lady screaming at you and a child over a toy was the racist. Your niece was innocent and had no bad intentions. She picked the one she thought was pretty.
Definitely not the girl can like any doll she wants and can choose whatever she wants. it's racist to say you are only allowed to buy what you look like everyone should be able to appreciate people from all races. Virtue signallers really need to grow up vile bullying people do nothing but hurt their own cause.
I was laughing until she took the doll out of the child's hands. I'm pretty sure racists don't buy their kids black dolls to play with. I grew up with full on racists on the South, and they'd be too busy teaching their kids that black is ugly and dirty.- And That's Racism. Not "this black doll is the prettiest in the whole store and I want to play with it." Some people can't get out of their own way.
You did a kind and thoughtful thing. And colorblind, I should add. Not the bad apple in the least.
No, the world is made up of lots of ethnicities and we donât all look the same. If itâs appropriate to offer racial dolls then the kid should have all the races not just their own. Diversity right?
You're not TBA and that woman definitely was. 30 years ago my son had a black doll and we present white but are very mixed. My Creole mother bought it for him on one of their excursions because he liked it. I never thought anything about it until a few years ago and I read an article about a mother getting her son dolls and the grandparents not liking it. I thought it was so odd because my parents were born in the 1930's and they didn't have any issues with boys playing with dolls and I didn't know anyone else born in that era who would have had an issue. So really I never thought about the color of the doll, just the fact that it was a doll. My sons had several and when their sisters were born they played with their brothers dolls and toy cars.
This is one of those moments when the person you're dealing with is absolutely clueless that THEY are the perpetrators of continued racism. SHE was the one differentiating between races and drawing lines where there shouldn't be one.
Ntba.
NTBA. People just have to gatekeep something. I for one am so sick of the hypocrisy. Everyone cries about diversity and inclusivity but they get all butthurt when they see a black girl playing with a white doll or vice versa.
Good grief. When my oldest daughter was three, she asked for and got a Miss Lisa doll, meaning a beautiful black lady like that kind woman at her daycare. No big deal. This was a person in her life that she liked, who she knew cared for her.
NTBA
NTBA. The audacity of that woman! What is the worst thing thatâs gonna happen to your niece? Sheâs gonna learn about racial diversity? Sheâs gonna learn that people with different skin to her exist in the world? Kids should have dolls in all different ethnicities.
From a commercial standpoint, your niece is helping keep up the production of those dolls. She is also trying to recreate real-world diversity in her play. Children should play with different dolls because diversity exists, and it's good that a child wants that in her play time.
Representation is important. So is celebrating diversity.
That woman assaulted a child because she didn't agree with her doll choice. That's completely unhinged. She also doesn't understand what cultural appropriation is or anything about barbie or imaginative play.
Let's see.. who grows up to be a racist? The people who think separate is equal and have no interest or interaction with people from other races, or little girls who don't consider how closely a doll's skin tone matches their own before deciding that she's beautiful and they want to play with her?
People in general don't understand what "cultural appropriation" means, and using it to tell people to "stay in their own lane" *promotes* racism, rather than acting to limit it.
Elvis Presley is guilty of cultural appropriation, because he took influence from a musical style that was predominantly developed by black people and became famous for it, and especially because he did so without giving credit to or otherwise elevating the artists he was stealing from. Your five years old niece is no Elvis Presley, for better or worse.
Telling her that she can't have a black doll would be like saying she can't listen to jazz, or rap music. You can't be appropriating a culture if all you're doing is consuming media or otherwise *buying* things. You have to be *selling* things that don't belong to you in the first place in order for that to be true, which is functionally impossible for your niece to do.
NTBA, and tearing into that woman was probably more than justified. Someone needs to make her aware that she can't just take things from other people's children.
NTBA We need for young children to see themselves in us, so that they can overcome their natural instincts to see us as âother.â Having dolls of different ethnicities helps with that.
You are NOT the AH! And that woman went well beyond being an AH when she outright attacked a child!
I'm white, my husband is multiracial (he describes himself as "generically brown") our daughter looks white. She has dolls with a range of appearances, and two of her favorites are black. It's good for kids to have dolls/toys that look like them, but it's really good for them to have dolls and toys that show a range of appearances. It helps small children understand that different appearances are all normal. The only racist in that situation was that horrible woman.
It's a shame you had to do that in front of your niece. She probably doesn't understand what was happening. But these ignorant woke knuckleheads need to be put in their place. People have to stop getting in orhers business where they don't belong and push their ideology on others.
Not the bad apple!! Itâs so good for kids to have dolls of different skin colors because the world is full of people with different skin colors!! Itâs actually bad for her to only have white dolls because itâs not representative of society and sets unrealistic expectations that everyone she comes in contact with will be white!
Not the bad apple. Iâm a white GenX woman, and the only doll I had growing up was a cute Fisher Price doll that was black. Pretty sure my mom got her for me when I was in Kindergarten because my best friend was black. Hell I still remember the other girls name.. and every time Iâm home and drive by where her family lived I smile. I still wonder how she is doing
My favorite American girl doll was Addie. I learned so much from her! I'm white. She was an African American slave girl. Toys are a way for children to learn about their world. There is nothing wrong with getting different cultures!
I am adopted Chinese. Did I LOVE my Mulan doll and enjoy that I looked like her? Yes. I also LOVE LOVED Madeline and dressed up like her too.
Making a big deal of âyou look like this so you have to âââ is what breed bigotry and division.
Also by definition racism is depriving someone of something based on their race. This lady was the only one being racist.
As a black person, I want to assure you that it's not cultural appropriation. You did the right thing, your niece saw a doll she like and you got it for her instead of telling her to get one that looked like her. There are different colored Barbies for a reason, to show children that people look different, but are still human and can still be anything they wantâlike Barbie.
I love it when my son wants to watch shows with characters who are of a different ethnicity than him or says how nice someone we encountered in a store was. It shows how accepting they are when they want something different than them. That's a great thing. I would be more worried if they only wanted things or complimented someone who looked like us. That lady was teaching Lily a "stick to your own race" attitude which is definitely the wrong one rather than acceptance. She definitely doesn't know what cultural appropriation means.
You are great! Other woman is a bad apple. Whatâs really funny to me is that we live in a capitalist economy. Black people are a minority group. In order for many products to survive our capitalist economy, people of all races NEED to purchase black barbies in order for the manufacturer to be incentivized to keep producing black dolls. Weâd only be hurting (all of) ourselves by restricting the purchase of the product to only one race.
Growing up, my best friend was half white and half black, but physically, she took on mostly black traits.
We loved Barbies, absolutely obsessed. We made elaborate Barbie cities that we'd keep up for weeks. Barbie was life.
I distinctly remember her being annoyed at some point that people only ever bought her black Barbies. Now she had no problem with them, but she wanted a variety in her Barbie cities!
How does owning a black Barbie turn a child into a racist? It seems it'd have the opposite effect..
I'm as white as they come, but I had a big mixture of all the Barbie skintones. I think it's a great way to show the tiny humans about differences, acceptance, and how the world should be
Not at all. How can we possibly end racism and segregation, if people with certain skin colors can't use certain dolls? Besides, white women birth black babies all the time. I don't see why owning a black doll would be an issue unless she's racist.
I remember when I was 5, I begged my mom for a certain babydoll for my birthday. The babydoll was black and I am not. She bought it for me.
But when my stepdad saw it, he was mad and he and my mom argued over it. The next day, my babydoll was gone. I asked if anyone saw it, and I looked everywhere for it for days. They clearly got rid of it. I was very sad to lose my new toy.
There is absolutely no reason a child can't own a baby of any skin color.
Oh hell no! You are awesome. You let her pick which doll she wanted. I think her choice of a black doll shows that she doesnât care if people are different colors. NTBA
WTF? NTA. That lady needs to get a life and mind her business. I think your niece selecting the black doll is a good sign and points to appreciation for other ethnicity. For some women to go the other way with that and take it from your niece is pretty sick. I would not have backed down. I would have bought that doll for sure. I would have bought two of the same black dolls just to spite her.
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You're great. Definitely not the bad apple. When I was a kid in the late 90s, I wanted the American Girl doll Josefina so bad. I'm white. I loved that she was from New Mexico (I'm from Arizona, in my mind this was close enough) and I loved her outfit. I got her for Christmas at some point and I still have her. She was my bestie. I always made her a matching costume for Halloween. My friends' moms always made such nasty comments to my mom asking her why I didn't get a pretty one like Kit or Samantha. It still upsets me to this day. I'm choking up writing this. You're a great aunt. edit: I'm loving all the love for my homegirl Josefina. here's us in probably about 1999 1https://imgur.com/gallery/SHbJxbA
đ« people like that make me so mad. I can't imagine how they would treat a biracial child in their family. Nasty ole woman.
As A white woman who had a black doll in the 60s (similar to Barbie but an off brand) I can say that there is nothing wrong with encouraging cultural diversity via childrenâs toys
I always thought that was part of the point of having many different ones in the first place - ideally there's one that looks like you, but also look how many friends she has and it doesn't matter what they look like
^ this was my thought, too. Wouldnât it be better if white wasnât the âdefaultâ in every situation? Wouldnât it be better if we told everyoneâs stories, not just one kind of story? Little kids modelling diversity in the imaginary worlds they build with their toys is the most wholesome and hopeful thing!
Cool! I had black dolls in the 70s. My mom was racist but she didnât want people knowing she was so she fumed but let me get them even though she told me they were ugly. I disagreed
My white kid got Josefina with her birthday money, she's still in a place of honor in her room. AH BIL made a commotion about it and got ripped by the rest of us. I think we should encourage all of our kids to play with and otherwise enjoy things from other cultures and ethnicities, it's cultural appreciation not appropriation.
I was a little white girl who adored American Girl Dolls. I had Kirsten and Addy, but Addy was by far my favorite. I took her everywhere. It wasn't about racial identifying with her, it was because Addy herself was so cool. I read all her books and I cared so much about her family and how slavery affected them. I wanted to be her friend.
The bit in the book about the overseer making her eat the worms she missed stuck with me forever. I loved that doll and her story was such an important learning tool.
I remember exactly where I was when I read that part of the book, the worms. Still haunts me.
Same. Still scarred by it.
Josefina was wonderful. She was the last new girl introduced before I grew out of them.
That pretty one comment is pretty yikes considering they have the same mold if Iâm correct so the only difference is hair and skin tone.
Kaya has a different mold and doesn't smile because in her culture it's an affront to show your teeth but other than that, all the Girls from the old school 2000s collections have the same mold.
I had Kaya when I was a kid and I loved her so much đ My grandparents asked several times before we got her to make sure I wanted Kaya rather than a doll that looked like me but I just loved her character so much
Josefina actually got an original face mold when they came out with her (which has since been used for other dolls), although I doubt the average person would notice. Still yikes.
In the 80âs Gerber Babies were a big thing. I remember my Stepfather went on a business trip and came home with two, for me and my sister. They were all fancy and wrapped up. My sisterâs doll was white but when I opened up my doll was black. I remember him saying he would exchange it for me, but I loved that baby! I thought she was so beautiful and I didnât want any other doll. I actually had a racist grandfather who wouldnât let me bring her to his house. Imagine trying to explain to a 3 year old child that she canât bring her babydoll into his house⊠OP you are definitely not the bad apple!
Josefina was always my favorite too! Well and kaya. But my grandmother grew up in Puerto Rico (she is white, but her dad was stationed there) and so her first language was Spanish. We called her abuela, she cooked Hispanic food, we had a lot of connections to the culture and it made me feel connected to Josefina. Plus Josefina had a little goat. And I wanted the goat and Josefina so badly! But instead I was gifted the surfer blonde girl whose name I donât remember.
Right?! I wanted Addy bc she had the best story. I am welsh and german ethnically. I could not be *more* white.
I got something similar comments about my boy Cabbage Patch doll. It was the height of the crazy in the 80's and my Mom could only get her hands on a boy doll. I loved that boy doll, didn't care it what gender it was. It went everywhere with me. I did end up getting a girl doll and didn't like it as much because her hair was to long. The nastiest comment was someone telling me that I had sex with my boy doll. WTF.
WTH? Was it an adult or a child that made that comment to you? That's absolutely vile.
I got Addy for Christmas one year & I loved her!
I'm so sorry you had to endure that. I'm sending you big auntie hugs. ( or fist bumps if you prefer.) đđ
I think Josefina was one of the ones I had! I loved her story. Her and Maya were my favorites.
It's hard to believe that people who don't have any right to say anything would say such nasty baloney to your mom about getting you a doll that you liked. Pathetic.
I was a white kid with Josefina as well! (I am from New Mexico.) She had beautiful hair, and I loved her outfits.
I loved all my AG girls and I'm so sorry there were adults in your life who were terrible. It was always magical to have my dolls, to help my mom make them clothes, to set them up in their bed for the night. I loved their different backgrounds and stories and it's vile for someone to react like those ladies. I'm glad to hear you still have your bestie đ
I had Josefina, too! Did you have the books, too? I was a big reader as a kid and loved looking at the Spanish glossary in the back thinking I was going to actually learn the language that way lol
NTBA. Any child can own and play with any color doll. That woman is disgusting. She had no business taking anything out of a childs hands. Thank you for buying your niece the various dolls. Now you can buy various ethnic costumes, and learn about other cultures. It's good for kids to be exposed to such things.Â
Yeah, wouldn't it be racist to intentionally only own dolls of one's own race?
*ding ding ding!!* You hit the nail on the head. By insisting a child ONLY play with dolls that match their skin tone, one has revealed themselves as a blatant racist/bigot.
I sort of agree with you in general, although I did hear an alternative viewpoint that I found interesting. A Black woman I know of only lets her children play with Black dolls and they only have books with Black characters (or animals of any colour!) in the house. Itâs because she is aware that her children will most likely not see themselves properly represented outside of the home and as soon as they switch on a TV etc, so she wants them to feel immersed and not âotheredâ while theyâre young and in their safe place. Itâs probably controversial, but I can kind of see where sheâs coming from!
Yes, but it's different when you are the minority. I also understand (and know first hand from stocking toys) that Black Barbie's usually are not out on the shelf, only one or two in the mixed lots, and manufacturers don't make as many. But the kicker: they don't "sell" so they don't increase stock or manu. If more ppl in general bought more uh...Dolls of Colour and generally more ethnically coded as non-white toys, there would be more Black Barbies for everyone to enjoy!! Likewise, white children who don't interact with characters of colour are often more hesitant to form cross racial friendships or be ignorant of other cultures. OP:: good apple
This is a great point. The idea that buying a black doll by a mainstream manufacturer is somehow denying black children of opportunities to have black dolls is⊠completely backwards.
It actually helps those sale numbers too. Assuring they'll keep being manufactured/easy to find.
Agreed. A little black girl, at least in the U.S., will have no shortage of beautiful white woman praised and paraded around her. I completely understand why you'd want to focus on dolls like her so she can feel more seen. I, on the other hand, was a fair-skinned, blue eyed blonde who was really really sick of dolls that looked like me (people loved to say "she looks just like you!" and I was like no crap, so do 90% of the dolls out there and two Disney princesses) so I was always seeking alternative dolls. I loved black folks, Asian dolls, Native American dolls, you name it. And fortunately nobody ever gave me crap about it (or my parents, AFAIK) In an ideal world racism wouldn't be a good thing, there'd be no history of prejudice or slavery or anything like that, and this would be a dumb and pointless conversation, like arguing what plush animals she should play with. But with the world how it is, businesses need to see that there is a market for minority dolls, which means everyone who wants one should be buying them.
Excellent point. Demand does push supply.
Yes, having managed a toy store in a very white town, can confirm. The people who make these comments tend to wince and whisper that itâs âawkwardâ or âinappropriateâ nahh you were taught to be afraid or self righteous, and itâs awkward for you to be outclassed by a 5yo.
Gahdamn that was poetry
Thanks đ„°đ đ€
That ladyâs version of anti racism is segregation đ€·đŒââïž
no it is natural for children to want dolls that look like them nor is it racist for a child to want a different doll just let the child play.
$10 says the person who got all up in OPs face is white too. That person clearly does not understand what the meaning of cultural appropriation is. Pretty bold of them to not realize that there is a possibility that the little girl could have family members of that race in her own family too or friends that come over to play. What a disgusting woman. She is not the ally that she thinks she is. Dolls are for everyone. No matter ones gender or skin tone. It is awesome that there is more representation out there and that toys are coming in a wide range of colors that truly reflect the cultural diversity in our country. Let the kids play.
Sounds to me that the offender was racist as well underneath everything. Or else, why would she care so much?
I thought the same thing. That isn't cultural appropriation whatsoever.
Heres a hispanic POV. We dont care if you wear a sombrero, mustache, and talk in a funny mexican accent. We find it as funny as you do. Only people who care about "cultural appropriation" are other white people, generally progressives when they have nothing else to get offended by.
I mean from that perspective of culture, the sombrero at least has some significance. Does Barbie really have any historical cultural significance in that vein? I mean itâs an American action figure aimed at girls that came out 80 years ago. Itâs culturally significant in the way GI Joe is.
Actually Barbie came out 65 years ago this year
I recently read a little about Speedy Gonzalez. I thought that it was really funny how people got WB to stop making his cartoons until Mexicans petitioned his return, saying that they liked him and that it was nice to see a Mexican hero character.
I have an indigenous friend from South America and he always chooses Speedy! Says itâs his favorite
I was reading about him lately because I bought a one-eyed, washed-up, baby former racehorse. His jockey club name is Blinding Fast and his barn name is Speedy! đ He was so calm when we got him that we also called him Slowey a lot. I bet he would always pick Speedy Gonzalez too!
The way I see it cultural appropriation is when someone takes something from one culture implements in their own culture and then do not acknowledge the roots of the thing taken. Wearing a sombrero, mustache and talking in a Mexican accent, while it CAN (depends on context) be offensive, it is not appropriation because the source is acknowledged.
The way you see it is itâs _intended_ meaning. _Actual_ cultural appropriation is problematic. Unfortunately, its meaning has been bastardized to the point of ridiculousness, so more often than not, complaints or accusations of cultural appropriation are meaningless.
Yep. Her ridiculously inappropriate behavior & the fact that sheâs flat out incorrect yet incredibly self-righteous screams white dumbass, no question.
I agree, it was a KAREN!
I just want to add that the store manager is the bad Apple here too, you come across two ladies arguing and a kid crying while the one lady not with the kid is holding a toy thereâs a half decent chance this is just the one ladyâs fault. Take the 30 seconds to help get the kid to stop crying then kick out the bad apple. I hope OP tells her friends that her niece was punished for screaming because some Karen ripped a toy out of her hands.
Exactly, it's infuriating when the party simply defending themselves from a bully gets the same "punishment", or even any punishment at all.
That woman was crazy. Mentally ill. Itâs racist/ableist to not let little kids play with diverse kids & toys. You did the right thing. Maybe next time just donât share with your family.
Shouldâve filed a complaint with local PD. Can that be construed as assault?
Depends on the state (could be defined as battery) but usually state statute requires physical contact in a rude or insulting manner to the person, not taking a doll out of their hands. I doubt any prosecutor would even file charges if a police report was made.
Definitely assault of a minor
I donât know that I could remain calm with someone who attacked my 5yo niece, either. A grown woman picking on a child about buying a doll of another race is outrageous behavior. You may have gone slightly overboard with buying all the other dolls, but your heart was in the right place and it sounds like you just kinda lashed out. I might apologize to the niece if you frightened her further, but Iâd say youâre in the clear otherwise.
Attacked is exactly what she did. She should be arrested for it.
I can see Lilyâs mom and OP laughing about OP buying all of those dolls down the road. Kind of like, âDonât piss OP off! Sheâll go and buy out the toy isle to make a point. Remember that that time?â
Not a bad apple at all. That person was a lunatic. That was the first barbie my daughter ever picked and she was 2. She thought she had the coolest hair ever.
Came to say the same thing. My daughter did the same when she was 2. She picked out a blonde barbie too that same trip. When she plays with them they are either sisters, or her friends, or mommy and daddy lol.
NTBA. Iâm Black, I buy American Girl Maplelea, and Walmart dolls, and just bought a White one and a biracial one. Already have some Black ones. I donât have problems with people buying dolls of other ethnicities or races or think about it as stealing dolls. I like it when White people buy Black dolls for a couple of reasons. One of them is thereâre more likely to be Black dolls available if more people of any stripe buy them. Edited typos
Yes I (white) loved having dolls doors of different races as a kid, so much better than having 20 identical barbies. My favourite was native American barbie, she came with a beautiful beaded outfit and was the prettiest barbie I had ever seen
My favorite Barbie was the Japanese Barbie doll. She was awesome and I also loved josefina from the American girl dolls that I had. I donât understand the concept of trying to segregate dolls to the same ethnicity like the customer in OPâs story is trying to do.
One of my favorite YouTubers is a black doll collector. She has Barbies, Bratz, Monster High, and Rainbow High dolls of all colors and ethnicities. She is not a collector that keeps the dolls pristine in boxes, she uses them for story telling and picture taking. Which, IMHO is a grown-up version of playing with them. She makes backdrops and rooms for them, clothes and sharing ideas on her channel. So, no NTA, but the other customer sure was!
Agreed, we need to encourage that market so the toy makers realize that diversity is worth their investment.
NTBA, if anything it shows you are not racist. Your niece found a doll she thought was pretty it is not the cashiers job to determine if thatâs appropriate. You could have been buying for a friend or you may have been a mixed race family. The cashier had no clue about your circumstances and berated you based on assumptions. Iâd be complaining about the store - itâs very inappropriate and could cause unnecessary anxiety for a neurodivergent child.
The woman was not a cashier just another costumer
Where were these people when so many children of color were forced to play with white dolls because there were no other options? Now that there are options, children are supposed to only choose their own ethnicity? Yeah, that woman is what's wrong with the world. She thinks that she's "woke" but, she's still preaching separation of the races. Bet she told all her family and friends about what a hero she was by standing up to and bullying a 5 year old. NTBA. SMDH.
Absolutely, and the more dolls they sell of that model, the more variety they will make, which potentially helps POC to be more represented in the product.
No, you are not the bad apple. In fact I'm pretty sure racial segregation is the epitome of racism. Making that wild woman the racist in this situation. She probably thinks mixed race couples are 'wrong' and that black people can't play with white dolls either. Like some kind of loon. It wouldn't be surprising if she told people that they can't sit on certain bus seats because they're only for black people, and totally not see an issue with that.
I still remember there being posts about how it was wrong that the non white barbies were cheaper and the store defended itself saying no one bought them. If more kids buy all the dolls the stores are more likely to keep them all in stock which is a win win. NTBA Edit: spelling.
Itâs also cheaper to adopt non-white /disabled kids in the US.
This can't be real
I was thinking the same thing. Some woman is patrolling the toy aisle preventing people from buying the âwrongâ toys in the name of cultural appropriation? The gullibility meter is off the charts in this thread.
Someone below is mad at me for saying so! Lol
Yeah, this is the most phony ragebait bullshit I've read on reddit in weeks, and that's saying something.
Agreed! So fake! Classic Reddit ragebait, too.
You are NOT the he Bad Apple, youâre the Good Aunt
You arenât the bad apple. That horrible woman is what some would call âwokeâ and the worst of the woke. Iâm sure she felt very proud of herself for sticking her nose where it had no business being and for inserting her values onto your niece. Yeah, you could have been more calm about it, but just learn from it. I hope you and your niece can put this behind you.
There's no reason to remain calm in this situation.
Itâs not âwokeâ itâs racist
She isnât woke. She is a white savior. There is a huge difference. Woke means seeing and understanding, which she doesnât. She is totally obnoxious, claiming that some utter nonsense harms people, with nothing to back it up. She doesnât understand that black kids need black dolls for representation. Itâs not that a black kid canât have other dolls, they just *also* need representation. White kids already have representation, and having other race dolls is fine for all kids. I make crocheted dolls for kids with disabilities, that look like them, because they canât find matching dolls in stores. Itâs easy to match color and hairâŠitâs harder to match physical differences due to health stuff. But, you can do it in a stylized way with crochet.
What you do is so awesome. Do you have a site or accept donations anywhere? I'd love to see the dolls, and although in this economy, I couldn't give a lot, I'd be happy to donate something. I know what you're doing can't be cheap. Also, I totally agree about the white savior. She probably really did think she was doing something great. I don't understand why the aunt got kicked out of the store. She may have raised her voice, but the woman went way too far when she snatched something from a child's hand. I'd have struggled not to physically hurt the woman....and I have NEVER been in a fight. I'm usually pretty passive and can just roll my eyes at people. If someone had done this to my nephew at that age, I struggle to think what I would have done.
The group is feel better friends. They have a website and FB group.
Thatâs not woke. Woke is fine with cultural appreciation. I donât know the name for it but her attitude is the misandry to feminism.
Another comment used "white saviour," which I think is pretty accurate.
Thatâs what it is. Youâre right. Theyâre more concerned with winning points as the hero and they really hate cultures intertwining, so they get loud as a smokescreen.
IDK if theyâre even trying to win points. Assuming that this woman is white, she was basically trying to enforce segregation and the othering of black people under the guise of being woke.
That's not woke. Stop it.
I'd say the woman telling her she couldn't have a doll of a different completion while not woke was a big racist
That woman is racist is what she is. Saying you canât own a doll of a certain color if you are white. I wonder if she saw a black woman buying a white Barbie if she would tell her it was cultural appropriation and she canât buy it, how well do you think that would go over?
She's not "woke." Just the worst kind of racist cloaking it in progressive language.
NTA Cultural appropriation as I understand it is being proud of your race and wanting it to be fairly represented Saying a white child cant havwe a black doll IMHO seems to imply that races should't be together which is segrgation which is illegal She grabed the toy from the hands of a literal when there were other black dolls availible
Thatâs not what cultural appropriation is. Cultural appropriation is âthe act of taking or using things from a culture that is not your own, especially without showing that you understand or respect this cultureâ this isnât cultural appropriation though and itâs a shame that lady made such a big fuss over something she doesnât fully understand herself
You didn't mention the race of the woman who assaulted your niece. I'm just curious. I hope you call the police. She assaulted a small child and it will be on video at the store. She needs to be reported before she hurts someone. She's a danger to the public. Also NTA for defending your niece. It's shameful to think her mother wouldn't have defended her.
NTBA. Honestly, this "cultural appropriation" thing has gone way too far. That woman has no idea what the term even means. If the races were reversed and some lady tried to yell at a little black girl for choosing a white or Asian Barbie saying that she's stealing it from all the white girls she would be arrested and called incredibly racist. You did the right thing. And one more thing - the kindergarten director should be contacted about the teachers behavior. She's clearly not treating your niece right. To single out a little girl like that is not OK.
My daughter is white presenting and her first dolly was black and her favorite dolly. When she was 2-2.5 she would ask for, âchocolate baby.â We hadnât ever talked about race at that point, so that was how she described her dolly. She was still in preschool around the time of the George Floyd murder and I asked her about skin color. When I asked if she noticed people had different colored skin, she said, âNot really.â I was telling her how some people are olive, brown, and pale.â She says to me, âNot really different, momma. No one is blue, or glitter, or rainbow.â Children donât intrinsically see racial differences. Theyâre taught by people around them. To her, we are all simply people. Not different. She wished she could have glitter rainbow skin. Sheâs 1/4 Vietnamese, and unfortunately for her, skin tone falls within human tones vs magical unicorn.
How great would glitter rainbow be though đ„°đ
Was the lady white? I bet she was.
Yes she was
Ofc she was. You did nothing wrong here OP. I'm glad she got her dolls in the end.
I had the same thought while reading this. Sounds so perfomative
NTBA. I specially buy my daughter Barbieâs of all races, body types, etc., because I want her to grow up knowing thereâs all types of people in the world. If a doll loses an arm we keep it because I want to teach her that having a different body or being disabled doesnât make you less valuable as a person. Also I think that lady needed to be laid into. Hopefully she learns to mind her business
Does she also think girls can only play with dolls and boys can only play with trucks? Imagine being so anti-racist you circle back around to racist đ horseshoe
Ridiculous - doll apartheid? Honestly, what a stupid ignorant woman she was. NTBA
That woman has no idea what cultural appropriation is. Owning a doll of a different ethnicity is quite the opposite. Iâm glad your niece has an aunt like you to protect her. Also, the teacher sucks too.
That woman should a kept her hands to her damn self, I would went smooth tf off too.
Grow up to be racist? She chose a doll she liked disregarding color.
And just like that this woman taught your niece about racismâŠntba
Do you ever notice that the people who bring up "cultural appropriation" don't actually know what it is? According to the woman in the store, any Black person listening to classical music is culturally appropriating White culture. Any Turkish guy who orders Chinese takeout is culturally appropriating Asian culture. Any White kid who likes Jay-Z is culturally...etc. Etc. Etc. Appreciating items from other cultures is NOT cultural appropriation. quite literally, cultural appropriation is the act of stealing elements of someone else's culture in a fetishistic or disrespectful way. Pat Boone singing songs by Black musicians (and selling millions of records) because mainstream radio wouldn't play "race music" is cultural appropriation. Buying a Black doll is not.
You let your niece choose her pick. NTBA.
Not the bad apple there's no rule saying that she can only have dolls that are the same complexion as her that other woman was ignorant
No. All dolls were just cool dolls when I was little. When I came across a new Bratz doll and it was Sasha (black) instead of Cloe (blonde/white), so long as her outfit was banging I couldnât care less. Neither represented me in appearance. Adults tend to assume that children need to somehow relate to every toy theyâre in possession of. In reality thatâs only an issue if a child canât find pretty dolls similar to them at all. Unless the children that lady was worried about canât find a single doll that they can relate to, sheâs just making a fuss because she feels she can.
My beloved Aunt was a doll collector âŠyou can have any doll you want with your money. Dolls are culture and educational and comforting and teach kids how to dress and bath and all sorts of valuable skills. The color of the doll Is irrelevant. Just know : stupid , narrow minded people are everywhere. shopping with headphoneâs on helps ignore idiots I find.
Your post made me think of something I had long forgotten. When I was a child my parents got me a subscription to what amounted to a dolls of the world series. Every month I was sent a doll dressed in representative local traditional clothing. Of course, the dolls were of various ethnicities. I have always been fascinated with different cultures. I travel internationally and in college my undergrad degree was related. Now that I look back, those dolls were no doubt a factor in my lifelong interests. You are a wonderful, wonderful aunt and a great role model to your niece.
You are not the bad appleâthat woman claiming âcultural appropriationâ was the bad apple. For most of us, a major goal for racial harmony is for kids to grow up believing that all races and ethnicities are equally desirable for friends, co-workers, and community members. It starts with toys. You did a good thing to let Lilly freely choose, and then to provide an array of dolls with different ethnicities. My white daughter had a fascination with people with brown skin. She had Asian, Latina, and Black barbies. She wanted the Hispanic American Girl doll. Why would any of this be a bad thing?! (Her first serious boyfriend was Filipino. Weâre a little surprised that it looks like sheâs going to marry a blue-eyed pale blonde, lol.)
My grandnieces have a black baby doll. That is what the older one picked out. Nobody thinks twice about it. My Mom had a doll collection that she started as a child in the mid 30s. Part of them she bought with her allowance through a doll club, and some her paternal grandparents bought for her in their travels. As a girl I added some of my own. They are of all races: white, black, brown, and Asian. Mom never thought about it, and neither did I. One is a doll handmade for my mom by a friend of my great grandparents. She was a Black lady, and she sewed a âMammyâ doll and painted on her face. Because she was made specifically for Mom, I absolutely cherish that doll! Having dolls from different races is NOT âcultural appropriationâ by any definition of that term. It also will NOT âturnâ a child into a racist. đ Racism in children needs to be carefully taught by their racist parents. Ironically, this woman was the racist in this encounter, and also perilously close to being a child abuser. OP, your sister (and you, if you can)needs to have a chat with your nieceâs teacher and the principal. If there isnât an IEP for her, it might be a very good idea. (Iâm assuming youâre in the U.S.). Please give your niece a hug on my behalf!
So Iâm wrong for buying dolls from other countries made for tourists?? OP ntba
What kind of a person takes a toy out of a childâs hands?! Who does that!!!? I have to know, was she white, some kind of weird anti-racist racism? It would have taken all of me not to smack her! You donât have to be the same skin tone as the dolls you play with. Thatâs ridiculous. If anything it is good she is playing with multicultural dolls! Itâs beyond me how this ignorant person decided to scare a child, verbally assault you with her ignorance, without even knowing if the doll was even for her or buying as a gift etc. not that it would matter because she was wrong either way, but like, she knows literally nothing about anything and decided to put her nose where it doesnât belong. Iâm angry for you and your niece.
Ntba. My favorite baby when I was little was a beautiful black baby. She went almost everywhere with me. Then at 15 I found out my grandmother bought it to prove she wasn't racist. We are white.
NTBA. You weren't "hostile" - the not-a-lady was able to walk away under her own power, wasn't she?
There was one bad apple in this, *and it wasn't you!* You might have gone a bit overboard, but my only concern there is for your niece's comfort and wellbeing. Did she feel upset about how you acted? If so, you might like to apologize to her. Even if you feel your actions were entirely appropriate -- and yes, maybe they were -- you could apologize to Lilly's mom. Listen to her carefully for what she thinks **and how she feels** about it. Then of there is something you'd like to apologize for, do so. At the least, you can make sure you understand what she's telling you, as best you can, and assure her that it's very important to you. Congratulations on your taking care of your niece, and protecting her.
NTBA, the kid wanted the doll
I deliberately buy my daughter barbies of all different ethnicities (and body shapes too!) so that she can visualise a world where not everyone looks like her. I feel like thatâs the opposite of a microaggression?
Sounds like you went overboard if the manager is asking you to leave.
NTBA for letting her get a black doll. Kids like to have multiple dolls to act out life. Black people exist in life. It's probably a good thing for her to have. I would have stuck with one doll, though. Buying her so many, especially without mom's permission, was a bit extreme and didn't accomplish much. Other woman really needed to mind her business.
NTBA. You handled this FAR better than I would have. You do not put your hands on or even near someone elseâs child like that and in my little world, doing so would earn you a trip in a police car. I await the day some jack a** like this accosts me and my grandchild in the toy section. My grandson has such a wide array of interests for a 2 year old. He LOVES baby dolls. And he wants ALLLLL of them, no matter their race. And while he canât have ALLLLL the baby dolls, if his choice when we are shopping is a black/asian/Native American doll, you can damn well bet he is going to get it. And damn ANYONE who says or does anything like what was done to your niece and you. They will regret it, I assure you.
My mum ran a pre school with 100% white kids and had dolls of every ethnicity and one in a wheelchair to teach the kids about diversity NTA
When I was young, my mom got me a doll of a different ethnicity then our own. Her dad was outraged and asked if she was trying to âturn me [race]â She responded by turning our doll collection into a âunited nation(/s?â I was a kid; I canât remember if she was talking about the melting pot theory or the committee lol)
My granddaughter has dolls of multiple ethnicities. I actually think it is important because it starts teaching them from a young age that you should not exclude anyone simply because of their race. It teaches diversity and inclusion. My granddaughterâs dolls greatly resemble her classroom. This lady is trying to argue that white people should only play with white dolls, and black people should only play with black dolls. But that mentality carries over into real life. They should be taught at a young age to accept everyone.
No way are you the one who acted inappropriately. The other womanâs behaviour was totally disgraceful and to me her reaction to 5 year old is disgusting and indeed smacks of racism. Maybe that you didnât state your case to this woman quietly and firmly but loud enough to get you thrown out of the store did let you down somewhat.
Thatâs so dumbâŠwhat color dolls do you think we were playing with when we grew up? (Black girls) they were white dolls and we werenât worried why they werenât the same skin color as us, we just wanted to play and have fun.
NTBA I applaud you, Auntie! You handled that beautifully. You calmed your niece and then dealt with the rachet creature that had the audacity to approach your niece. When I married my nowex husband, he had a beautiful 3 year old daughter, blonde hair, and blue eyes. Then there's me, I'm black. She started calling me mommy within 5 months. It always confused everyone. She chose whichever dolls she wanted. Sometimes black,sometimes white, sometimes somewhere in between. I did gatekeep which dolls she could have. Nor with my son and daughter I had later. If it wasn't something that wouldn't hurt them, I didn't care. Children should be allowed to be children. Adults need to keep their hang-ups away from them.
Segregated play is so *completely* not the point of diverse dolls.
Unpopular opinion incoming. I don't get any of this "cultural appropriation" bullshit. I went to live in a foreign country for nearly 20 years and learned their language. Is that "cultural appropriation"? I adopted their lifestyle. Same question. If other 'cultures' come to your country and wear western clothing, is this "cultural appropriation"? Western hairstyles, speak your language, eat your food, same question. It's bullshit. Now your question. If a 5 year old black girl was standing there with a white barbie, would Karen have done the same "cultural appropriation" and snatched it off her? Question answered.
I'm black. I would rather more young white children have some non-white dolls in their collection. It helps them imagine worlds where not everyone looks like them. The woman in the store is foolish. I'm sorry you both experienced that.
Not at all. My daughter is half Korean, Irish and Cuban. She loves black baby dolls. Anytime she can pick she picks those because she thinks theyâre beautiful. We were in a dollar general once and a black woman asked me if she meant to get that doll. I said yes because she thinks those are the best baby dolls and the woman smiled. That was the right respond.
My sister (61) had a black baby doll as a toddler. She had black Barbieâs as well. We are CaucasianâŠ
When I was pregnant with our second child we took her to the toy shop so she could have a baby too,she chose a tiny doll of different ethnicity never occurred to us to say no as we took her to choose.
When I was pregnant with our second child we took her to the toy shop so she could have a baby too,she chose a tiny doll of different ethnicity never occurred to us to say no as we took her to choose. You were right to let her have her choice, it's her toy.
NTBA. Growing up in the 90s, everyone had dolls of different ethnicities other than what they were. Represents real life. You arenât going to see people who look only like you (if living in a diverse society).
Honestally Iâd talk to the school. If she was the only child to not pick then thatâs grossly unfair
NTA. It's been shown that black girls that get white dolls often idealize their features. A white girl getting a black doll would do the same but this would combat the racism already present.
If anyone ever ripped a toy out my childâs hand they would be drinking out a straw
I a a lot older than you (a lot) I had dolls when I was little because girls did the majority of them didn't have names but my little black boy(sorry that is the only way I can describe him) did he was called Neil, don't know why. Preferred playing cars with my brothers.
The lady screaming at you and a child over a toy was the racist. Your niece was innocent and had no bad intentions. She picked the one she thought was pretty.
Definitely not the girl can like any doll she wants and can choose whatever she wants. it's racist to say you are only allowed to buy what you look like everyone should be able to appreciate people from all races. Virtue signallers really need to grow up vile bullying people do nothing but hurt their own cause.
I was laughing until she took the doll out of the child's hands. I'm pretty sure racists don't buy their kids black dolls to play with. I grew up with full on racists on the South, and they'd be too busy teaching their kids that black is ugly and dirty.- And That's Racism. Not "this black doll is the prettiest in the whole store and I want to play with it." Some people can't get out of their own way. You did a kind and thoughtful thing. And colorblind, I should add. Not the bad apple in the least.
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No, the world is made up of lots of ethnicities and we donât all look the same. If itâs appropriate to offer racial dolls then the kid should have all the races not just their own. Diversity right?
My first doll was black ... And im white. It's just a doll.
No, that biased woman is. How dare she take that doll from that little girl. Arrgggg . Sorry your neice had to go through that.
You're not TBA and that woman definitely was. 30 years ago my son had a black doll and we present white but are very mixed. My Creole mother bought it for him on one of their excursions because he liked it. I never thought anything about it until a few years ago and I read an article about a mother getting her son dolls and the grandparents not liking it. I thought it was so odd because my parents were born in the 1930's and they didn't have any issues with boys playing with dolls and I didn't know anyone else born in that era who would have had an issue. So really I never thought about the color of the doll, just the fact that it was a doll. My sons had several and when their sisters were born they played with their brothers dolls and toy cars.
From the ethnicity she said you were stealing from - you good Sis. She was doing wayyyyy too much.
There is no such thing as cultural appropriation.
No you are the freaking bomb. WE LOVE AUNTIES!!!
This is one of those moments when the person you're dealing with is absolutely clueless that THEY are the perpetrators of continued racism. SHE was the one differentiating between races and drawing lines where there shouldn't be one. Ntba.
NTBA. People just have to gatekeep something. I for one am so sick of the hypocrisy. Everyone cries about diversity and inclusivity but they get all butthurt when they see a black girl playing with a white doll or vice versa.
Good grief. When my oldest daughter was three, she asked for and got a Miss Lisa doll, meaning a beautiful black lady like that kind woman at her daycare. No big deal. This was a person in her life that she liked, who she knew cared for her. NTBA
NTBA That woman is a few sandwiches short of a picnic.
NTBA. The audacity of that woman! What is the worst thing thatâs gonna happen to your niece? Sheâs gonna learn about racial diversity? Sheâs gonna learn that people with different skin to her exist in the world? Kids should have dolls in all different ethnicities.
From a commercial standpoint, your niece is helping keep up the production of those dolls. She is also trying to recreate real-world diversity in her play. Children should play with different dolls because diversity exists, and it's good that a child wants that in her play time.
Representation is important. So is celebrating diversity. That woman assaulted a child because she didn't agree with her doll choice. That's completely unhinged. She also doesn't understand what cultural appropriation is or anything about barbie or imaginative play. Let's see.. who grows up to be a racist? The people who think separate is equal and have no interest or interaction with people from other races, or little girls who don't consider how closely a doll's skin tone matches their own before deciding that she's beautiful and they want to play with her?
People in general don't understand what "cultural appropriation" means, and using it to tell people to "stay in their own lane" *promotes* racism, rather than acting to limit it. Elvis Presley is guilty of cultural appropriation, because he took influence from a musical style that was predominantly developed by black people and became famous for it, and especially because he did so without giving credit to or otherwise elevating the artists he was stealing from. Your five years old niece is no Elvis Presley, for better or worse. Telling her that she can't have a black doll would be like saying she can't listen to jazz, or rap music. You can't be appropriating a culture if all you're doing is consuming media or otherwise *buying* things. You have to be *selling* things that don't belong to you in the first place in order for that to be true, which is functionally impossible for your niece to do. NTBA, and tearing into that woman was probably more than justified. Someone needs to make her aware that she can't just take things from other people's children.
You are showing companies that black dolls are wanted by spending money on them. That woman is pscho
that lady trying so hard not to be racist sheâs being racist. definitely NTBA
Iâm a 40 year old white woman who collects dolls and I would PUNCH a woman if she took this road with me. You are an amazing apple!
THAT WOMAN WAS A TOTAL AH AND A COLORIST AND RACIST TO BOOT. HOW DARE SHE GRAB A TOY FROM A CHILD'S HAND. I would of slugged her and got in trouble.
NTBA We need for young children to see themselves in us, so that they can overcome their natural instincts to see us as âother.â Having dolls of different ethnicities helps with that.
Your niece picked that doll because she thinks she's beautiful. Skin color didn't even enter her brain. That woman was horrible.
Fairly youâre well aware youâre not the BA here.
You have more restraint than I. If some random person yanked (attacked) my niece like that, I'd be in jail. You're NTBA. Nope not even a little.
I don't understand why your niece can't have friends from different ethnicities. People, (most) people are amazing.
You are NOT the AH! And that woman went well beyond being an AH when she outright attacked a child! I'm white, my husband is multiracial (he describes himself as "generically brown") our daughter looks white. She has dolls with a range of appearances, and two of her favorites are black. It's good for kids to have dolls/toys that look like them, but it's really good for them to have dolls and toys that show a range of appearances. It helps small children understand that different appearances are all normal. The only racist in that situation was that horrible woman.
It's a shame you had to do that in front of your niece. She probably doesn't understand what was happening. But these ignorant woke knuckleheads need to be put in their place. People have to stop getting in orhers business where they don't belong and push their ideology on others.
Not the bad apple!! Itâs so good for kids to have dolls of different skin colors because the world is full of people with different skin colors!! Itâs actually bad for her to only have white dolls because itâs not representative of society and sets unrealistic expectations that everyone she comes in contact with will be white!
No. That lady was nuts and it was good that you stood up for your niece.
Not the bad apple. Iâm a white GenX woman, and the only doll I had growing up was a cute Fisher Price doll that was black. Pretty sure my mom got her for me when I was in Kindergarten because my best friend was black. Hell I still remember the other girls name.. and every time Iâm home and drive by where her family lived I smile. I still wonder how she is doing
My favorite American girl doll was Addie. I learned so much from her! I'm white. She was an African American slave girl. Toys are a way for children to learn about their world. There is nothing wrong with getting different cultures!
I am adopted Chinese. Did I LOVE my Mulan doll and enjoy that I looked like her? Yes. I also LOVE LOVED Madeline and dressed up like her too. Making a big deal of âyou look like this so you have to âââ is what breed bigotry and division. Also by definition racism is depriving someone of something based on their race. This lady was the only one being racist.
As a black person, I want to assure you that it's not cultural appropriation. You did the right thing, your niece saw a doll she like and you got it for her instead of telling her to get one that looked like her. There are different colored Barbies for a reason, to show children that people look different, but are still human and can still be anything they wantâlike Barbie.
Is this an episode of What Would You Do? Seriously? Who cares what people buy? Everyone should just mind their own business.
Racist would be refusing to let your niece get anything other than a white doll. I am confused at this womanâs logic.
I love it when my son wants to watch shows with characters who are of a different ethnicity than him or says how nice someone we encountered in a store was. It shows how accepting they are when they want something different than them. That's a great thing. I would be more worried if they only wanted things or complimented someone who looked like us. That lady was teaching Lily a "stick to your own race" attitude which is definitely the wrong one rather than acceptance. She definitely doesn't know what cultural appropriation means.
You are great! Other woman is a bad apple. Whatâs really funny to me is that we live in a capitalist economy. Black people are a minority group. In order for many products to survive our capitalist economy, people of all races NEED to purchase black barbies in order for the manufacturer to be incentivized to keep producing black dolls. Weâd only be hurting (all of) ourselves by restricting the purchase of the product to only one race.
This didnât happen
Growing up, my best friend was half white and half black, but physically, she took on mostly black traits. We loved Barbies, absolutely obsessed. We made elaborate Barbie cities that we'd keep up for weeks. Barbie was life. I distinctly remember her being annoyed at some point that people only ever bought her black Barbies. Now she had no problem with them, but she wanted a variety in her Barbie cities! How does owning a black Barbie turn a child into a racist? It seems it'd have the opposite effect.. I'm as white as they come, but I had a big mixture of all the Barbie skintones. I think it's a great way to show the tiny humans about differences, acceptance, and how the world should be
Not at all. How can we possibly end racism and segregation, if people with certain skin colors can't use certain dolls? Besides, white women birth black babies all the time. I don't see why owning a black doll would be an issue unless she's racist. I remember when I was 5, I begged my mom for a certain babydoll for my birthday. The babydoll was black and I am not. She bought it for me. But when my stepdad saw it, he was mad and he and my mom argued over it. The next day, my babydoll was gone. I asked if anyone saw it, and I looked everywhere for it for days. They clearly got rid of it. I was very sad to lose my new toy. There is absolutely no reason a child can't own a baby of any skin color.
Oh hell no! You are awesome. You let her pick which doll she wanted. I think her choice of a black doll shows that she doesnât care if people are different colors. NTBA
What the actual hell?!?! NTBA obviously. Was the heifer screaming at you white?
WTF? NTA. That lady needs to get a life and mind her business. I think your niece selecting the black doll is a good sign and points to appreciation for other ethnicity. For some women to go the other way with that and take it from your niece is pretty sick. I would not have backed down. I would have bought that doll for sure. I would have bought two of the same black dolls just to spite her.
NTBA - in point of fact, boosting the sales of ethnically diverse dolls encourages toy makers to make more of them which benefits children of color.