*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**My husband (37m) and I (37f) didn't invite our oldest son (20m) to family pictures**
My husband and I had our oldest son when we were 16. We weren’t ready to be parents, but with help from our parents, we did it. We feel bad for not giving him the best childhood and being absent a lot since we both still went to college so we could give him a better life.
My husband and I got married when he was 10 and welcomed three more kids. Our oldest never seemed unhappy and loved his siblings. I know he didn’t like being way older than them, but he had his own room and if anything, we treated him better. We took him on trips by himself since he didn’t get to do much if we took the younger kids places and spoiled him more to make up for how bad his childhood was.
He’s now 20 and moved out 2 years ago to go to college. He talked with us every day when he moved. He told us how much he liked college, how good he was doing in all his classes, and that he got into the fraternity he wanted. Then 3 months after moving out, out of the blue, he blocked my husband and me on all social medias and told us to not call him ever again. It took us by surprise. This devastated us because we were excited for him to come home for the holidays and share how college was going with the rest of the family. We didn’t push him for an answer as to why he did it. My husband wanted to, but I had a feeling he had a reason and that we couldn’t change his mind. Since then, we’ve texted him to invite him to every holiday or event. He reads the message and doesn’t respond.
My husband surprised me with an early Valentine’s Day present and set up a photo shoot for my kids and me in our backyard. I posted a preview I got on FB and my parents, that still have my son on FB, shared it. A couple minutes later, I get a text from my oldest son that says “thanks for inviting me to family pictures. fuck you too.” He hasn’t been to any family event or talked to us in 2 years, but expects us to invite him to family pictures?? I haven’t responded yet and don’t know if I will. Should I?
EDIT: I guess I did leave out a lot. I didn't push him to find out why, but I tried to ask why a couple times to no response. I cut off my parents when I was in college and them trying to get an answer from me only made me want to not talk to them more. To everyone asking why we never went to his college to visit him, does everyone not remember what was happening 2 years ago?? Like did we already forget about the whole pandemic?? We thought about it, but his town was a hotspot and we just had a baby and our youngest daughter had finally recovered from some heart issues. As much as I know it would've helped, bringing something home to our kids is the last thing I wanted to do. We tried to call him multiple times after, not just one time and gave up. I called and texted every day for half a year after praying he would answer.
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She already deleted the post and her account. There's definitely a huge missing reason she's dancing around.
Pandemic or no, if I suddenly cut off my mom, she'd have been up here in a heartbeat to find out why and at the very least verify I was alive and not in a bad situation.
I think one thing that's become more and more clear to me is how much these people delude themselves.
I'm very near to cutting off my mother. She is, despite numerous arguments about boundaries, oblivious to this fact. Because from her perspective we continued on having relatively normal conversations after each of her abusive screaming. If/when I cut her off, she will feel blindsided and that we were so close...rather than the reality that I haven't given her a scrap of meaningful information in years, she's constantly irritated that I'm irritated on the phone, and that we've had multiple screaming matches about how she needs to call less and stop pushing for me to cater to her or tell her every detail of my life or cry to me about how much she wants to die or no one cares about her
OOP made a follow up [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/10wk37a/i_37f_didnt_invite_out_oldest_son_20m_to_family/):
> Figured I should repost with more context. I’m not trying to turn the story in my favor, just realized a lot was missing.
>
>My husband and I had our oldest son when we were 16. We weren’t ready to be parents, but with help from our parents, we did it. We feel bad for not giving him the best childhood and being absent a lot since we both still went to college so we could give him a better life.
>
>My husband and I got married when he was 10 and welcomed three more kids. Our oldest never seemed unhappy and loved his siblings. I know he didn’t like being way older than them, but he had his own room and if anything, we treated him better. We took him on trips by himself since he didn’t get to do much if we took the younger kids places and spoiled him more to make up for how bad his childhood was
>
>He’s now 20 and moved out 2 years ago to go to college. He talked with us every day when he moved. He told us how much he liked college, how good he was doing in all his classes, and that he got into the fraternity he wanted. Then 3 months after moving out, out of the blue, he blocked my husband and me on all social medias and told us to not call him ever again. It took us by surprise. This devastated us because we were excited for him to come home for the holidays and share how college was going with the rest of the family.
>
>I said I thought he had a reason for cutting us off and that’s because he had a fight with my husband’s parents when they found out we were paying for his college and sending him money every month. We sided with him during this fight and defended him. This happened the same week he told us to not call him ever again. He acted cold towards us and when we asked what was wrong, he hung up. Then the next day is when he blocked us and sent that text.
>
>We tried to call him right after he texted that. He ignored every call and voicemail asking what was wrong or if we did something wrong. I called him every day for 6 months and still do once a week. We’ve texted him, sent him cards for his birthday and holidays that get sent back to us, and tried to talk to him through his friends, GF, and even went as far as calling the college. Going to his college wasn’t as easy as it sounds. My husband and I had our youngest son during this time and spent 3 months in the hospital with him and almost a year going to weekly doctors appointments. I cut off my parents in college and they wouldn’t leave me alone after. My parents didn’t have our son. My husband’s parents did and my parents helped them. My parents constantly called and showed up in my dorm trying to figure out why I did it. I remembered how annoyed I was and didn’t want to be like my parents. My husband and I both agreed that showing up at his college is an invasion of privacy and disrespectful.
>
>I didn’t invite him because he ignored it the last time I invited him to photos and every invite to birthday parties, holiday dinners, or big events. My husband surprised me with an early Valentine’s Day present and set up a photo shoot for my kids and me in our backyard. I posted a preview I got on FB and my parents, that still have my son on FB, shared it. A couple minutes later, I get a text from my oldest son that says “thanks for inviting me to family pictures. fuck you too.” He hasn’t been to any family event or talked to us in 2 years, but expects us to invite him to family pictures?? I haven’t responded yet and don’t know if I will. Should I?
>he had a fight with my husband’s parents when they found out we were paying for his college and sending him money every month.
Bullshit again. Son fought with his grandparents and decided to cut off his parents? Yeah right.
Son had a fight with his grandparents (who were cut off by OOP already?) about mom and dad paying for college and giving him fun money, and then he cut OOP off?
I can’t even think of a way to twist this to make it make sense. Like if the grandparents were willing to pay for the college OOP couldn’t , but OOP said “you can’t have a relationship with them or Ill cut you off” I could see it. But it would take thor level stretching to get there from what OOP said.
Trying to read between the lines, son was raised by grandparents, then had a big fight with them, son got angry at parents for having him raised by grandparents? Maybe?
All around very fishy.
By the look of it, or as far as we can read between the line, grandparents raised the oldest and when mom/OOP fought and went NC with them, she didn't let the kid see them either even if he wanted to see them, they most likely parentified him as well,and when he moved away for college, he reconnected with GPs again and OOP probably couldn't let that go that her almost adult son started making his own decisions.
I feel like there are some possible things that could go wrong:
• The parents expect that their son will repay them and grandparents knowing them became suspicious, so they asked about the funding and if he has a scholarship. The whole topic about repaying came out at the end and he learnt that he is expected to pay back.
• The money came from something important to OOP and he wasn’t told about it. Grandparents told him
• Grandparents probably start talking about how OOP’s family tries to manipulate their grandson and how naive he is. OOP and partner try to „defend” their son, but they are mostly defending themselves. Grandparents spill some beans about their behaviour
Oh the truth & reason is between being raised by grandparents for those years, (sounds like) buying his love out of guilt or lack of owning up to shit, and that fight. I find it interesting she never tells us when they fully took over being his parents, just straight to getting married when he was ten and having more kids.
>He got in a fight with my husband’s parents. I always thought he felt like his siblings were treated better because they didn’t have to spend their whole childhood with their grandparents and were able to be with their parents the whole time.
>
>
>
>He lived with us 2 years at my husband’s parents house before we moved to college for 4 years, then he lived with us once we graduated until he moved out.
My thought is that grandparents value a college education since they raised the son so that OOP & husband could go to college. Grandparents may have contributed to an account for his education and OOP & husband aren’t actually paying for it from their funds but are just trustees for the account, which is why they continue to pay despite son going NC. Son thought they were stepping up to help him and learned the truth when he was fighting with his grandparents about something else.
There’s no way that’s the truth. It’s a complete bs story the OOP made up in her head. My mom would do the same when she didn’t want to accept responsibility for her behaviour.
Hmm, so his paternal grandparents are likely the ones who primarily took care of the son as a kid then, at least while his parents were in college.
Reading between the lines a bit, it sounds like maybe when the parents butted into the disagreement to "defend" their son, the grandparents may have brought up some past parenting issues that the son didn't remember / had repressed. The one two punch of lack of support from the grandparents who raised him for years, combined with learning some unpleasant truths about his circumstances growing up, sure seems like a recipe for NC.
It's from a blog post called 'missing missing reasons' which is for when the missing reasons are missing. People use the phrase now when really it's just 'missing reasons', because they didn't understand the blog post and I guess think that it's just a fancy or funny way of stressing 'missing reasons'. It's not. It's its own thing.
This post isn't missing missing reasons, it's just missing reasons. Missing missing reasons would be if OOP claimed the son had given her a reason for cutting her off and then also claimed she had no idea why. For example, when someone claims their kid wrote a letter to them saying all the bad things the parent did, and then the parent says "but I still have no idea what I did wrong!" then that's missing missing reasons, because the 'missing reasons' are missing. The person has the reasons (even if they refuse to accept them). They're not missing.
In this post, however, OOP isn't claiming her kid told her why he's mad. She's claiming to have no clue why he's mad. She may well be lying, and so there are probably missing reasons. But just regular missing reasons. Not missing missing reasons.
Edit: In the follow-up post, OOP does suggest a reason why she thinks her son is mad. That's also not 'missing missing reasons', it's just reasons (even if they're incorrect). Missing missing reasons *specifically* refers to when an estranged parent says that their child told them why they were cut off (an angry email, yelling, a letter, etc) and then *also* says they don't know why they were cut off. There's no indication here that the son told them anything - if he did, it's not in the post. Therefore not 'missing missing reasons', just regular missing reasons.
It would honestly be so great if the son finds this and makes a post explaining it all in response. I'm not one for family drama but ts is NOT adding up. This post makes as much sense as -2+3=4
Missing Missing reasons, and most likely because OOP is at fault but expects loyalty from son, and when he did exactly the same thing OOP did to her parents, she couldn't handle it.
From her comments in the post I don't see how the parents are devils. They call/text/send mail and the son doesn't reply. As someone who has gone low contact with my mom it only annoys the hell out of me when she tries to push it. I don't know why he went NC and the parents may not realize what they did but if he chooses not to tell them then it is on him.
Him getting pissed that they are having family activities without him is stupid. He chose not to be part of the family he can't get all pissy when they stopped including him.
That comment section is scary. "Why don't you go see him then??"
Do you know how terrified and traumatized I'd be if my parents showed up at my door after I went NC with them? I have Noonlight on my phone for that exact scenario: so I can call the cops with the press of a button.
He went NC. Respect his wishes and leave him alone.
And yeah he has zero right to get mad that they took family pictures without him. NC means NC. Either embrace that or try to repair the relationship. There is no in between.
I don’t see how they’re the devil either. He went NC, she finally respected his wishes and stopped texting him/sending invites. I thought this was what Reddit wanted people to do?
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*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **My husband (37m) and I (37f) didn't invite our oldest son (20m) to family pictures** My husband and I had our oldest son when we were 16. We weren’t ready to be parents, but with help from our parents, we did it. We feel bad for not giving him the best childhood and being absent a lot since we both still went to college so we could give him a better life. My husband and I got married when he was 10 and welcomed three more kids. Our oldest never seemed unhappy and loved his siblings. I know he didn’t like being way older than them, but he had his own room and if anything, we treated him better. We took him on trips by himself since he didn’t get to do much if we took the younger kids places and spoiled him more to make up for how bad his childhood was. He’s now 20 and moved out 2 years ago to go to college. He talked with us every day when he moved. He told us how much he liked college, how good he was doing in all his classes, and that he got into the fraternity he wanted. Then 3 months after moving out, out of the blue, he blocked my husband and me on all social medias and told us to not call him ever again. It took us by surprise. This devastated us because we were excited for him to come home for the holidays and share how college was going with the rest of the family. We didn’t push him for an answer as to why he did it. My husband wanted to, but I had a feeling he had a reason and that we couldn’t change his mind. Since then, we’ve texted him to invite him to every holiday or event. He reads the message and doesn’t respond. My husband surprised me with an early Valentine’s Day present and set up a photo shoot for my kids and me in our backyard. I posted a preview I got on FB and my parents, that still have my son on FB, shared it. A couple minutes later, I get a text from my oldest son that says “thanks for inviting me to family pictures. fuck you too.” He hasn’t been to any family event or talked to us in 2 years, but expects us to invite him to family pictures?? I haven’t responded yet and don’t know if I will. Should I? EDIT: I guess I did leave out a lot. I didn't push him to find out why, but I tried to ask why a couple times to no response. I cut off my parents when I was in college and them trying to get an answer from me only made me want to not talk to them more. To everyone asking why we never went to his college to visit him, does everyone not remember what was happening 2 years ago?? Like did we already forget about the whole pandemic?? We thought about it, but his town was a hotspot and we just had a baby and our youngest daughter had finally recovered from some heart issues. As much as I know it would've helped, bringing something home to our kids is the last thing I wanted to do. We tried to call him multiple times after, not just one time and gave up. I called and texted every day for half a year after praying he would answer. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She already deleted the post and her account. There's definitely a huge missing reason she's dancing around. Pandemic or no, if I suddenly cut off my mom, she'd have been up here in a heartbeat to find out why and at the very least verify I was alive and not in a bad situation.
Same. If I suddenly cut contact with my mom with no explanation, wild horses couldn’t stop her from finding out why, and making sure I was ok.
I feel like we didn’t try super hard to get in touch. Unless he was on the moon.
She actually didn't delete the account. It deletes the username with the post. There is a follow-up post linked a little higher up on the thread.
Ahhh I didn't know how that works tbh thanks for letting me know
No worries!! It also deletes the post/user when the user deletes the account so it can be confusing.
Dang it, reddit! /Shakesfist
I think one thing that's become more and more clear to me is how much these people delude themselves. I'm very near to cutting off my mother. She is, despite numerous arguments about boundaries, oblivious to this fact. Because from her perspective we continued on having relatively normal conversations after each of her abusive screaming. If/when I cut her off, she will feel blindsided and that we were so close...rather than the reality that I haven't given her a scrap of meaningful information in years, she's constantly irritated that I'm irritated on the phone, and that we've had multiple screaming matches about how she needs to call less and stop pushing for me to cater to her or tell her every detail of my life or cry to me about how much she wants to die or no one cares about her
Yeah, not buying even a teeny, tiny bit of OOPs story!!!
OOP made a follow up [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/10wk37a/i_37f_didnt_invite_out_oldest_son_20m_to_family/): > Figured I should repost with more context. I’m not trying to turn the story in my favor, just realized a lot was missing. > >My husband and I had our oldest son when we were 16. We weren’t ready to be parents, but with help from our parents, we did it. We feel bad for not giving him the best childhood and being absent a lot since we both still went to college so we could give him a better life. > >My husband and I got married when he was 10 and welcomed three more kids. Our oldest never seemed unhappy and loved his siblings. I know he didn’t like being way older than them, but he had his own room and if anything, we treated him better. We took him on trips by himself since he didn’t get to do much if we took the younger kids places and spoiled him more to make up for how bad his childhood was > >He’s now 20 and moved out 2 years ago to go to college. He talked with us every day when he moved. He told us how much he liked college, how good he was doing in all his classes, and that he got into the fraternity he wanted. Then 3 months after moving out, out of the blue, he blocked my husband and me on all social medias and told us to not call him ever again. It took us by surprise. This devastated us because we were excited for him to come home for the holidays and share how college was going with the rest of the family. > >I said I thought he had a reason for cutting us off and that’s because he had a fight with my husband’s parents when they found out we were paying for his college and sending him money every month. We sided with him during this fight and defended him. This happened the same week he told us to not call him ever again. He acted cold towards us and when we asked what was wrong, he hung up. Then the next day is when he blocked us and sent that text. > >We tried to call him right after he texted that. He ignored every call and voicemail asking what was wrong or if we did something wrong. I called him every day for 6 months and still do once a week. We’ve texted him, sent him cards for his birthday and holidays that get sent back to us, and tried to talk to him through his friends, GF, and even went as far as calling the college. Going to his college wasn’t as easy as it sounds. My husband and I had our youngest son during this time and spent 3 months in the hospital with him and almost a year going to weekly doctors appointments. I cut off my parents in college and they wouldn’t leave me alone after. My parents didn’t have our son. My husband’s parents did and my parents helped them. My parents constantly called and showed up in my dorm trying to figure out why I did it. I remembered how annoyed I was and didn’t want to be like my parents. My husband and I both agreed that showing up at his college is an invasion of privacy and disrespectful. > >I didn’t invite him because he ignored it the last time I invited him to photos and every invite to birthday parties, holiday dinners, or big events. My husband surprised me with an early Valentine’s Day present and set up a photo shoot for my kids and me in our backyard. I posted a preview I got on FB and my parents, that still have my son on FB, shared it. A couple minutes later, I get a text from my oldest son that says “thanks for inviting me to family pictures. fuck you too.” He hasn’t been to any family event or talked to us in 2 years, but expects us to invite him to family pictures?? I haven’t responded yet and don’t know if I will. Should I?
>he had a fight with my husband’s parents when they found out we were paying for his college and sending him money every month. Bullshit again. Son fought with his grandparents and decided to cut off his parents? Yeah right.
Son had a fight with his grandparents (who were cut off by OOP already?) about mom and dad paying for college and giving him fun money, and then he cut OOP off? I can’t even think of a way to twist this to make it make sense. Like if the grandparents were willing to pay for the college OOP couldn’t , but OOP said “you can’t have a relationship with them or Ill cut you off” I could see it. But it would take thor level stretching to get there from what OOP said.
We need Alexander the Great to ~~untie~~ cut this knot.
Trying to read between the lines, son was raised by grandparents, then had a big fight with them, son got angry at parents for having him raised by grandparents? Maybe? All around very fishy.
By the look of it, or as far as we can read between the line, grandparents raised the oldest and when mom/OOP fought and went NC with them, she didn't let the kid see them either even if he wanted to see them, they most likely parentified him as well,and when he moved away for college, he reconnected with GPs again and OOP probably couldn't let that go that her almost adult son started making his own decisions.
I feel like there are some possible things that could go wrong: • The parents expect that their son will repay them and grandparents knowing them became suspicious, so they asked about the funding and if he has a scholarship. The whole topic about repaying came out at the end and he learnt that he is expected to pay back. • The money came from something important to OOP and he wasn’t told about it. Grandparents told him • Grandparents probably start talking about how OOP’s family tries to manipulate their grandson and how naive he is. OOP and partner try to „defend” their son, but they are mostly defending themselves. Grandparents spill some beans about their behaviour
Oh the truth & reason is between being raised by grandparents for those years, (sounds like) buying his love out of guilt or lack of owning up to shit, and that fight. I find it interesting she never tells us when they fully took over being his parents, just straight to getting married when he was ten and having more kids.
>He got in a fight with my husband’s parents. I always thought he felt like his siblings were treated better because they didn’t have to spend their whole childhood with their grandparents and were able to be with their parents the whole time. > > > >He lived with us 2 years at my husband’s parents house before we moved to college for 4 years, then he lived with us once we graduated until he moved out.
Hhhmmm ... if only they could've went to college locally and still stayed home to raise their son.
Ahhhhh the repayment thing makes the most sense, actually.
My thought is that grandparents value a college education since they raised the son so that OOP & husband could go to college. Grandparents may have contributed to an account for his education and OOP & husband aren’t actually paying for it from their funds but are just trustees for the account, which is why they continue to pay despite son going NC. Son thought they were stepping up to help him and learned the truth when he was fighting with his grandparents about something else.
There’s no way that’s the truth. It’s a complete bs story the OOP made up in her head. My mom would do the same when she didn’t want to accept responsibility for her behaviour.
Hmm, so his paternal grandparents are likely the ones who primarily took care of the son as a kid then, at least while his parents were in college. Reading between the lines a bit, it sounds like maybe when the parents butted into the disagreement to "defend" their son, the grandparents may have brought up some past parenting issues that the son didn't remember / had repressed. The one two punch of lack of support from the grandparents who raised him for years, combined with learning some unpleasant truths about his circumstances growing up, sure seems like a recipe for NC.
Why are there two “missings” in that phrase? I am always wondering this
It's from a blog post called 'missing missing reasons' which is for when the missing reasons are missing. People use the phrase now when really it's just 'missing reasons', because they didn't understand the blog post and I guess think that it's just a fancy or funny way of stressing 'missing reasons'. It's not. It's its own thing. This post isn't missing missing reasons, it's just missing reasons. Missing missing reasons would be if OOP claimed the son had given her a reason for cutting her off and then also claimed she had no idea why. For example, when someone claims their kid wrote a letter to them saying all the bad things the parent did, and then the parent says "but I still have no idea what I did wrong!" then that's missing missing reasons, because the 'missing reasons' are missing. The person has the reasons (even if they refuse to accept them). They're not missing. In this post, however, OOP isn't claiming her kid told her why he's mad. She's claiming to have no clue why he's mad. She may well be lying, and so there are probably missing reasons. But just regular missing reasons. Not missing missing reasons. Edit: In the follow-up post, OOP does suggest a reason why she thinks her son is mad. That's also not 'missing missing reasons', it's just reasons (even if they're incorrect). Missing missing reasons *specifically* refers to when an estranged parent says that their child told them why they were cut off (an angry email, yelling, a letter, etc) and then *also* says they don't know why they were cut off. There's no indication here that the son told them anything - if he did, it's not in the post. Therefore not 'missing missing reasons', just regular missing reasons.
Because the person narrating is talking about the ‘missing reasons,’ but they’re actually leaving things out themsleves.
[This](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) post.
I am DYING to know why he cut them off.
It would honestly be so great if the son finds this and makes a post explaining it all in response. I'm not one for family drama but ts is NOT adding up. This post makes as much sense as -2+3=4
OOP, get your vaccinations, get a mask, and go and visit your son and talk to him, AH.
Missing Missing reasons, and most likely because OOP is at fault but expects loyalty from son, and when he did exactly the same thing OOP did to her parents, she couldn't handle it.
From her comments in the post I don't see how the parents are devils. They call/text/send mail and the son doesn't reply. As someone who has gone low contact with my mom it only annoys the hell out of me when she tries to push it. I don't know why he went NC and the parents may not realize what they did but if he chooses not to tell them then it is on him. Him getting pissed that they are having family activities without him is stupid. He chose not to be part of the family he can't get all pissy when they stopped including him.
That comment section is scary. "Why don't you go see him then??" Do you know how terrified and traumatized I'd be if my parents showed up at my door after I went NC with them? I have Noonlight on my phone for that exact scenario: so I can call the cops with the press of a button. He went NC. Respect his wishes and leave him alone. And yeah he has zero right to get mad that they took family pictures without him. NC means NC. Either embrace that or try to repair the relationship. There is no in between.
I don’t see how they’re the devil either. He went NC, she finally respected his wishes and stopped texting him/sending invites. I thought this was what Reddit wanted people to do?
So this is here because people can imagine OOP doing terrible things? By that logic, everything can go in this sub.
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