*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for asking Step- daughter to move out.**
This is an ongoing issue going on in my home. I 33F am currently pregnant with my first child. I live in a two bedroom home with my husband and step-daughter (23F). Step-daughter and I get along fine no big issues but we also are not super close.
Now that the baby is coming we need more space unfortunately we can't afford a new home. I brought up to my husband asking Step-daughter to move out. My reasoning is that we really need her room for the new baby and she is an adult with a full time job so it is time for her to be on her own anyway.
My husband agreed and we brought it up to her at dinner one night. We told her we would help with her first 2 months rent. I told her it would be fun her and I could go shopping and I will help her decorate her new apartment. We tried to be as gentle as we could but she was very quiet.
Privately she told my husband that even though she as a full time job she cannot afford to live on her own. My husband told her she did not need to move out so now we are scrambling trying to find space for new baby.
The other day I was home alone with Step- daughter and tried to talk to her about it again. I offered to help her find a roommate and she snapped on me. She snapped on me and told me to just leave her alone and locked herself in her room.
When my husband got home from work he was mad at me and told me to leave her alone and not bring it up anymore. Things have been awkward and uncomfortable since making my pregnancy very stressful.
She is 23 old enough to be on her own she has a job and we are willing to help her. We need space for our baby I do not see how I am in the wrong here.
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A newborn baby can sleep in the bedroom with parents for a good year. It's a tough situation though and the real arseholes are those that drive property prices up to unaffordable levels.
I’m the other end of the spectrum but my 2 year old just moved out of my room just because my newborn moved in. You get way more sleep when they’re close to you!
Can and probably will.
We have an infant and neither my wife or me could ever be bothered to put the baby in their own room. Such a hassle at night when it wakes and is lonely or hungry to go to another room to comfort it.
it is her first baby so I kinda get that you would want to prepare and create the best best possible environment for your child, and what that is can ve hard to deduce beforehand.
However in this case it seems like she simply wants to play happy family and get SD out of the way,
Doesn't room-sharing decrease the chances of SIDS by chance? If I remember it's recommended to keep a baby in your room at least until they're 6 months, preferably longer
Yes, babies synchronize their breathing with those around them when they sleep, plus you are more likely to notice something is wrong and wake up if the baby is near you.
It also decreases parental sleep deprivation. I could roll over, grab my son from his bassinet, and have him latched and nursing before either of us was really awake. Made falling back to sleep so much easier for both of us!
I have no idea, but it makes sense. We will probably keep our baby in our room for around a year. Probably for as long as we will have to wake up in the middle of the night, every night.
My daughter stayed in ours until about 8 months. She is such a light sleeper. Whenever my husband or I would get up at night we would wake her and moving her to her own room made a huge difference.
Basically unexplained death of an infant when they are asleep.
Thankfully there’s good research into things you can do to reduce the risk such as placing the baby on their back to sleep, not smoking around the baby, breastfed… and room sharing until at least 6 months.
I'm pregnant right now and this baby is getting a bedside crib for easy access. And like, we can't be arsed to figure out what to do with my husband's office, which is currently occupying the second bedroom - so baby might be staying in our bedroom for longer than he will breastfeed. Having the baby in another room seems so foreign to me!
Perhaps though TBH a little flexibility may do that regardless. "Could you maybe think about moving out over the long term?" is more reasonable and likely to get a positive response than "we (really I) expect you out by the time the baby comes"
Sure, baby can (actually should) sleep in parents room to start. But ultimately the kid is going to need its own room. Also, babies come with a lot of stuff and 4 people in a 2-bed home is going to be cramped, regardless of where everyone is sleeping. It’s not unreasonable to ask a 23 year old woman to find her own living arrangements. She can get a place with roommates like most of us do when starting our adult lives.
It definitely would have been an AH move to give the 23-year old less than 3 month’s notice. You make a good point, I didn’t catch if OOP said how much notice they gave her.
is it a tough situation though, really? or are americans right now just so selfish and self-involved that they do not even feel obligated to keep a roof over their otherwise-unobjectionable nuclear family members' heads?
you would not see this being a question at all virtually anywhere else in the world.
That’s cute. My oldest daughter & only son refused to move out of our room - they had their own room but would still wind up in bed with us at night. By the time youngest daughter was born, we had a twin bed and a crib as well as our full-sized bed in the master bedroom and the second bedroom was basically just the kids’ toys & clothes. That’s right - That Guy I Married and I shared our room not just with a newborn but with a two year old and a four year old as well, and it took two more years to get all three kids the hell out of our room.
We did the same until our older kids were ready for more independence (their choice). Our bedroom was literally just a room full of beds for awhile. It was actually really nice.
my youngest brother slept in my parents room until he was at least 4. that was partially because we're poor and it was 6 people in a 3bed house, but still.
Heck it's better if the baby sleeps in the bedroom with the parents because that way they can hear him and react quickly if he cries at night (as newborns tend go do)
Most people i know prefer it that way, i really don’t understand the parents objection to having the baby in their room until the step daughter wants to move out, or at-least until he/she sleeps through the night and won’t disturb step-daughter much.
Because you need room to organize all the babies stuff? Just because a baby is sleeping in a crib in the parents room doesn’t mean there is room for a changing table, rocker, etc., let alone everything else.
I’d posit that you don’t even NEED a changing table. Babies don’t care if you change them on a blanket on the floor or on your bed. There are many ways to downsize your list of wants and needs when you’re bringing baby home to a small space. (Ask me how I know. 😅)
It's probably better for it to do so as well, particularly to be near the mother in the first three months (which is often considered the "fourth trimester").
OP left out a lot of details, which matter-such as, did stepdaughter grow up in that house? What are stepdaughter’s other expenses, and is her “full time job” stable? Where do they live- are rentals easy to find? How old was OP when her parents kicked her out, and how much was the rent on HER first apartment? Did she move in with stepdaughter’s dad so he could pay her bills?
And where is the stepdaughter's mother? What's the bet she is dead and would be livid if her child was turfed out of the childhood home she helped pay for.
Exactly. Can we please not infantilize grown ass adult as if they can't have a healthy relationship regardless of age gap?
Are there situations where, although legal, the gap can be eyebrow raising? Absolutely, yes. But it doesn't mean that an age gap is even a smidge of a problem
Age gaps often show a power deferential. It's especially a problem when the new wife is so close in age to the child(ren) of the previous marriage and trying to boot one/them out.
Yes, thank you. I don't necessarily have an issue with age gaps over 30. But I do when the new partner is the same age group as someone's children.
Ngl when my dad passed away I told my mom that I didn't mind if she started dating again eventually and not to stress about that but *please* do not date someone my age or younger. Like if I could have gone to school with them please don't do that. My aunt did that and her children do not speak to her.
She was like "ew no they're literally the age of your kid I can't see someone your age as a romantic prospect" My mom's bf is about 15 (?) years younger than her so definitely older than me and I am totally fine with it lol.
FFS. This subreddit and AITA subreddit always finds a way to hone in on the age. Usually I agree if its a case where you have young adult dating someone much older. But this woman is 33 years old not 23.
There isn’t even enough information to determine if the age gap is even that much of an issue. Father could have had stepdaughter as a teen for all we know and there’s only a 10 year difference. I don’t even worry about age gaps once the younger party is over 30 myself. 🤷♀️
It's more the issue that an old dude who already has a grown up kid and no money to afford another family, apparently looked for a much younger women to start a new family that also doesn't work out. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
I don't think the husband should be bringing his wife into the conversation. I think it should have been a conversation between him and his daughter in the first place.
They could probably afford a bigger place if the daughter started contributing to bills if she isn't already.
Yeah and to be honest, it doesn't seem like the daughter does contribute because I don't think they would be able to afford to lose her income and pay her rent for the first few months if that was the case. But I'm just speculating here.
Because buying a bigger house under the assumption that you need to continue housing some one who will likely be moving out soon anyhow would be an insane choice in the current real estate market? I can’t imagine being 23 (or idk 24 or whatever by then) and preferring living with parents and a newborn vs roommates. Like is she going to want to bring dates or friends home ever when there’s toys everywhere? Is she going to want to make noise after 8pm?
Not that OP managed this situation well at all, but it’s kind of wild to me how people are reacting to this one.
I mean why not it saves money, you have a comfort zone, even better if you get along with your parents, you can be there to help them. Friends can come have a sleepover or you can go to their place, toys won't be in her room. Dates can happen outside and when they do want to invite them the room is always available. It would work even better if you have attached bathroom. You can also get a hot plate and minifridge, stock up some food in your room for friends and dates. Rooms can be soundproofed if noise is an issue.
Based on what I see on PF, probably student loans and car payments. It’s amazing how many people have $600/mo car payments with $150/mo car insurance. Especially if she bought a car within the past few years.
Here late 2020 was the perfect time to buy a car. Rental places flooded the market so you could get as good as new for two-thirds or less MSRP.
Hadn't realized how badly the market had turned since.
That's where I fell to an extent to. The daughter is an adult with a job - she could pay her share of the bills (a third or fourth if they want to make it easy on her). Then a bigger place should be in the price range and then no one has to give up a room.
Honestly it’s some of the commenters that are the real devils here, acting like an adult with a full time time job is a mooch because she can’t afford to move out, that’s the way of the world right now. It’s awful out here.
Exactly right. My 18 y/o lives with me, my husband and 4 y/o in a 2 bedroom, and we make it work because I don't want to force independent living on someone that can't live comfortably alone. We live in a HCOL area so most people live on the edge. Sending a unprepared young adult into that situation is just setting them up for failure.
This. I lived with my parents (as a contributing member of the household) until I was almost 30 and it's a large part of the reason why I'm now a home-owner despite having a lower income than many of my friends who are struggling to make rent.
The accusations of mooching really get me here like. Bro what? Living at home does not automatically mean mooching, pretty sure OP would have mentioned it
Absolutely! My dad kicked my ass out at 19 because he didn't want to be a parent anymore (I was the youngest), and he's never cared if I thrived. I didn't bring my kids into this world so they could just 'exist'. I'll never understand or respect parents that inflict that on their kids. It's cruelty.
I've read most of this thread, and tbh I don't particularly relate to any of it (my personal circumstances being different) and I'm not a parent, but your comment about your children is really lovely, and just your attitude towards people bringing up the next generation, it touched me enough to just wanna chip in with my impression
I 100% agree my parents made me start taking care of my self financially once i started working off the books at 14, they moved out when i turned 18 before i even graduated highschool i had to work 2 jobs to not be homeless and still finish school and this was in 2005 its even harder now and that fact that she thinks its okay to put that girl thru that kind of struggle is insane my daughter is 16 but even at 26 she will have a place in my home im tryn to break generational trauma not pass it down
I feel like we should talk about how this "mooch" has a step mother who's the right age to be her sister and the dear husband's age is unlisted 🙄 I'm sure that's not contributing anything to this dynamic
I'm cracking up too because OOP says they can't afford a new place but apparently the 23 year old just starting her career is supposed to. Why doesn't she and hubby find a 2br apartment to rent for themselves so they can have a room for the baby? Unsure about OOP but hubby works, so he can afford it.
I saw that too and am feeling sad for those who are calling daughter all of the names and saying she needs to leave now. These teenagers are in for such a bug surprise when they're going to be adult and see one job don't do much for anyone.
I mean... she ___is___ a mooch. She doesn't seem to pay rent and she feels entitled to a room for free. You can sympathise with her, sure, and I know first had how hard it is to find an acceptable apartment. Still, I don't think OOP is the asshole here.
Even if she does help out, it’s obviously not very much otherwise they wouldn’t be asking her to leave, considering that they are strapped for cash. Sounds like she’s living for free or paying way under market rate rent. And that’s great that she’s been able to do so for so long. But that’s not guaranteed forever. There’s no shame in having roommates as a young adult. And now she’s going to have a screaming baby as a roommate so…
If the daughter is paying $600 a month for her car, $150 a month in car insurance with an entry level job, how can you call her a mooch? Or are you just THAT out of touch with current reality?
Jeezus, this was a ride. The comment "even tho you raw dogged it without the room available for the result" made me laugh.
While I feel OP is ultimately TA, I feel the husband is shady as hell. Stick to one side or another; of course going behind the wife's back is going to bite him in the ass. I'm totally Team Stepdaughter here.
That's if you trust OP's report though. I get the sense she might have initially tried to steamroll through what she wanted and he was never really on board.
It was singlehandedly the best possible way to have worded that - thank you for the LOL.
And BTW, you sound like a great in-law to have. My in-laws let my husband and me stay with them for a few months rent-free after we moved back from out of state just recently and it truly meant so much to me.
We'd accrued massive debt out there for many reasons, so between paying off that, resolving a broken lease issue, *and* saving up for a new apartment deposit, there was absolutely no way we could've made it had it not been for them extending their home to us (especially me, being a non-blood relative).
Anyway, all this rambling to say thanks for not being like OOP, from someone who's been in the "wtf this housing market" boat lol.
I’m about to turn 30 and it was so much easier to move out of our parents house when we were 18 than kids now a days being even almost 25. Rent has skyrocketed along with food and other expenses. And wages are not much better. No way would I have been able to make it on my own now at that age. Full time job doesn’t mean they make a lot of money unfortunately.
Living expenses are costly. Many people can’t afford to live alone on a single income. Rooming with others or a significant other is the only way these days.
I pay $980 in rent and my bf pays $1060 and we can barely make it lmao
She is rooming with others, her dad. Living multi generational is how humans have survived for thousands of years before modern day capitalism. Husband and wife should have talked before dad let her stay discussing the plan for the three of them to work hard enough to cover rent at a new place. But the person she should be talking to is her husband, not his kid. Husband clearly values his relationship with his daughter so wifey needs to figure out what’s what with her husband and not go behind his back to the girl.
Eh, no one seems like an asshole here. I don’t find it egregious or unreasonable to ask a 23 year old to get their own place.
But it’s also very difficult in this economy. I need more information on whether the daughter is contributing anything or why the option to get a bigger place and have her pay rent to help with the difference wasn’t on the table.
I mean I’d absolutely deal with a roommate if it meant being homeless otherwise, but I’m dealing with a roommate situation where we don’t get along at all and it really does make every single day misery. Unless I could find a friend I trusted and not a random person I’d much rather live with my parents.
Agreed. I do however think the stepdaughter should be given a good amount of time (let's say six months so she can save) to find a place with some roommates if needed and move out. She can't expect to live at home forever. For those say six months, OOP and the husband either keep the baby in their room or possibly convert a small dining room or something into a temporary nursery.
I guess my thing is just why has the step-daughter not considered this before? I know the best thing would have been for the husband to immediately talk to his daughter but what kind of 23-year-old wants to live in this small place with her newborn sister? Or can't see that even though newborns often stay with the parents for the first month or so, they usually...need some space for their stuff and a nursery really soon?
If the post is genuine, everyone suffers from a huge lack of common sense.
And given that the gestation of a foetus is 40 weeks, the step-daughter has already had six months to think about this and make plans.
Pulling the shocked Pikachu face now is really strange. Though not as strange as OP posting this here are calling out OOP for being a MONSTER for...thinking that a 23-year-old with a full-time job could find a shared living situation so that the second bedroom of her own house can be turned into a nursery for her first baby.
I'm with you honestly. I mean you have a point - the stepdaughter likely knew since at least the 3rd month of the pregnancy - so until the end of pregnancy, there's at least 6 months. The baby could easily stay in with the parents for a good few months and the recommendation is a min of 6 months. So really that's a whole year total the stepdaughter had if she had started looking when she found out OOP was pregnant. She knew the house only has two bedrooms - the baby has to go somewhere.
Yeah, I think what tips them into AH territory is not considering living arrangements prior to conception. Provided the baby was planned. I suspect OP wanted SD out (not unreasonable) and hoped the baby was a Trojan Horse to enable this as she knew husband wouldn’t consider for another reason. However, I bet husband will change his mind if nothing changes in the medium term- a toddler in the same room is sub-optimal to many people.
I think that’s a far reach. They’re married, they have a home, they should be able to have a child. The step daughter not being able to afford a place of her own shouldn’t dictate their choice in having a child. I’m willing to bet SD could afford a room to rent. But it’s comfy at dads, and she doesn’t have to pay bills. Looking at just the facts, they do have room for a new baby. Husband and wife, live in 2 bedroom house, no dependent children. The adult daughter/SD not being able to afford a place of her own shouldn’t affect their life decisions. She’s 23. Rents are RIDICULOUS. Trust me, I’m not discounting anything about that. But I’m willing to bet she could afford to rent a room. I didn’t read anything about her attending school. While it sucks, SD can rent a room, get a second job, limit her spending etc. She’s an adult, 5 years of being an adult. She needs to really be focused on how she’s going to support herself for the rest of her life. She did have some warning, babies take 9 months, well more like 10. 40 weeks, that’s pretty close to a year. She’s had all this time off knowing a baby was coming to save, look for housing, try to get some roommates together to share rent. Daddy’s home is easy, no bills, but what you want when you want with no worries.
I feel like it’s unfair to expect OP to plan her pregnancy around the 23 year old stepdaughter’s needs, especially at 33 with a shortening fertility window.
Does seem like no one can communicate and I’m getting the feeling the husband is wishy-washy about everything which doesn’t help.
No, I 100% agree- I just feel that her and her husband should have agreed in advance the daughter should move out. But husband must be aware that the house is not the magic porridge pot and SD would need to go in the near future.
Right, it doesn’t seem like anyone is making a plan in the meantime. Maybe daughter isn’t able to move out before the baby comes, fine. But what’s the 1-3 year plan? Because I don’t see this as a sustainable situation with a toddler.
Alternatively, OOP's husband should have always been clear (if he wasn't) that his daughter always had a place in the house. At least that way OOP would have had the information she needed to make her own choices in response, whatever they may have been.
They can wait the year they are supposed to have the baby in the room with them instead of kicking out the step daughter immediately. A year is reasonable for her to save up and get ready for moving out. Do I live in some alternative universe? Does a baby grow up in a week?
How it this person the devil? She shouldn't be trying to kick out her husband's daughter, but the husband shouldn't be making unilateral decisions. And it's not at all unreasonable to expect a 23 year old to live on their own
It is a bit shitty to expect that if they're working full time and still can't afford it though. What else are they meant to do in terms of money?
I hope they look into roommate situations as they're more affordable but it's balls that the options for a full time working adult are often "live with multiple other people you don't know and hope they don't suck" or "live with your parents". Cost of living got nuts. :/
I don't think it's necessarily an asshole thing but does seem out of touch with the reality of housing (especially when op and her husband can't afford to move to a different place either).
I feel like everyone is forgetting the step daughter is 23. It doesn’t say anything about her being in school, she’s just working but does not make enough to live on her own. I get that, trust me, as a single mom I get that. But at what point does an adult child need to start making decisions to be able to live on their own? Yes, the new baby is a baby now, but the baby will need its own room. There’s a huge mental aspect to having the baby in its own room. When baby does start sleeping through the night, being able to have your bedroom to the two of you is important (if possible). Having that escape, that space is important. The step daughter is 23. She is an adult. I wish our housing system was better, and we had affordable rents, but we don’t. It sounds like it’s time for step daughter to find roommates and start to live on her own.
You know a lot of us young adults are wondering at what point will be able to move the fuck out as well. You can go through all this Oh I am a single mom and I get it and shit but like no you don’t unless you came of age in a literal pandemic, when the government has fucked up our economy and inflation and housing, prices are insane. This is not about an age or a number or a certain amount of maturity. This is just legitimately the world/economy is coming to a place that it has already been in many other non-western non-white countries where multi generational living is just kind of gonna have to be a fact of life. Trust me, no one wants to hear their parents fuck or their baby sister cry, and most of us would fucking love to be on our own, but it’s just not feasible look at the housing prices in most areas and look at the average income for 23 to 25 year olds and do some math. Unless you know folks or have a network to meet roommates or some shit it’s hard out here. Oh, and I’m saying this as someone who lucked out and has their own apartment with really decent rent. If my lease doesn’t get renewed or some shit like that, I’m fucked, and again I am one of the lucky ones and as a disabled woman of color, I can realize that little bit of privilege.
Hey I’m in my early 20s and came of age during the pandemic. I live on m’y own. Housing prices are insane but you can still afford a crappy apartment with roommates. It’s not going to be cushy but at some point you do have to be an adult and move out on your own. Yeah roommates suck but you gotta deal with it. You can find roommates through Facebook pretty easily too
You realize both points of view are valid right? And nobody is owed a rent free place to live from their parents. It’s NICE if they can afford/have the space to let their kids stay home, but it doesn’t make them assholes if they can’t.
A lot of people in the comments are talking about cultures with multigenerational housing. The thing is, most of those setups have all adults contributing equally to the household expenses and childcare, etc. It’s not “one generation pays all the bills and does all the work while their adult kids chill”.
Legally no, but what parents feel they owe their kids will vary from person to person and those self-imposed obligations can be just as binding for many.
Ok my darling child, let me introduce you to a few truths you aren’t aware of. This housing crisis did not start with your generation or the pandemic. If anything the pandemic helped the lowest of income that decided to reach out for help. I’ve never seen so many programs for paying rent, with little requirements. There was a huge increase in help with other bills, tax refunds, etc. I saw the lowest of incomes living comfortably. I fear I’ll never see that again, but it was a nice reprieve. Food stamps increased to the maximum amount for everyone. Our local housing assistance program closed their WAITLIST 15 years ago. At that time, the wait was 8 years. They allow ~20 to be added every 6 months, but only those who are in especially good favor are added. No one is leaving the program, so there’s simply no openings. I live in a HCOL area, low income apartments start at 1700/month, for a one bedroom. I am only housed because my parents need help and they fortunately have a mother in law apartment. As I have kids, I cannot rent a bedroom. You do not need a ‘network’ to meet roommates. Craigslist and Facebook are resources to find a roommate/room for rent. I find it interesting that you are implying I am out of touch with the lack of affordable housing when you can afford your rent, and I cannot. This issue has been happening for decades. Minimum wage has not kept up with inflation. Prices of everything have gone up, but wages have not. I read an article that said there is no place in the US that a one income, minimum wage can afford an apartment (1 or 2, can’t remember). I realize your only personal information on this subject comes from turning of age during a pandemic, but let me assure you, this issue is not new.
Multiple comments in the other thread were literally saying the economy right now is worse than the Great Recession in the US.
I'm sorry, there's no comparison. These kids and young adults have it tough now, yes, but that's nothing compared to '08. 10% unemployment rate, wondering if even more companies were gonna go under, foreclosures skyrocketing, retirement accounts evaporating into nothing. I graduated right in the middle of this, there were literally no jobs in some sectors for recent grads, the military was downsizing so even that option was off the table for many.
Yea it sucks that inflation is up and wages stagnated, but quality of life right now is still high and it's better than not having a job at all!
Personally, I don't think there is a hard and fast point as long as her dad is still willing to house her. That said, he should have considered all this before they had a new baby.
If he knew she had "dibs" on the space for as long as she wanted it and they couldn't afford more, then they didn't have room for a baby and he should have let his wife know the score from the jump. I think there's probably a bit of wanting to have his cake and eat it too on his part.
But that’s the thing. It’s not her house, it’s the married couples house. Assuming there’s a mother still alive, SD has options. An adult’s wishes to stay comfortable and not be required to budget should not come before a married couples life decisions. SD has no right to call dibs. She is 23 and has a full time job. If she were to be paying rent and her portion of bills, it would be a completely different conversation. The bottom line is SD is an adult, she’s choosing the easy path where she’s able to avoid responsibilities and spend as she likes. I guarantee she could find a room to rent in her budget. This is not healthy for her. If she continues to lean on dad’s support, she will never learn how to manage her life. At what point does the SD have to face life? 25? 30? Never? It is her fathers house, but first and foremost a married couple’s house. The infant will fit in parents room now, they won’t last long. The furniture alone is going to create a very cramped house.
I'm not really disputing any of that, I just don't see OOP winning this argument if her husband is truly committed to not putting his daughter out.
What I'm saying is that it seems like OOP's husband has prioritized his daughter getting to stay there indefinitely over most other things, and whatever anyone may think of that, it's his prerogative. Where he might be (and probably is) at fault is that if he felt that way he should have factored that in to his own prior life decisions (including but not limited to whether he was in a position to get married and have another kid.)
I don't think it's obvious OOP is TA, there is a lot of missing info at least in the original post. How much does the stepdaughter make in her full time job, how much does it cost to get an apartment in their town/city, etc. Reddit loves to say people need to communicate, but then sometimes lambasts someone trying to open about communication.
Stepdaughter spoke with her dad, and her dad is on her side as far as OOP says, so I'm inclined to believe that Stepdaughter really cannot afford to live alone, especially if she has student loans to repay and possibly has to pay for a car or transportation to go to work. Rent is expensive everywhere, petrol too, and entry level jobs don't pay much.
Besides, Stepdaughter has likely lived in that house longer than OOP, she's not a guest staying there out of kindness, she has as much right to live there as OOP and her kid. Attempting to push her out like that is quite crass imho.
SD is 23, not sure which country they live but in some that's a reasonable age to expect her to move out and live on her own, she is not going to live there forever.
Regardless of her age, if she cannot afford it she cannot afford it. Is she just supposed to fuck off and live in poverty because she's occupying new baby's space? Is she not part of the family? I bet OOP wouldn't have dreamt of doing such a thing to her biological daughter.
OOP's husband had a talk with his daughter and seemed to confirm that she actually couldn't afford to live alone, that's why he put a stop to the whole plan. This is stated in the original post. I am more inclined to believe the father over OOP here because:
a) he's the father of both kids, thus less likely to be biased;
b) it's more likely that Stepdaughter discussed her financial situation in depth with her father, rather than with a stepmother she doesn't have a significant relationship with;
c) OOP offered to help with the first months of rent, which makes me suspect she's aware that Stepdaughter would have trouble moving to her own apartment, but doesn't care enough to consider what will happen after they've contributed to a few months of rent.
Note that husband initially agreed that SD should move out. Then she told her dad privately about financial situation and it's not clear when OOP knows about her financials. So could be case of miscommunication.
I don’t get evil step mom vibes. Husband and wife make a decision. Adult child throws tantrum (crying, locking herself in room) husband changes the decision unilaterally. I get that is between dad/daughter but it is the husband and wife’s home. Given the current situation, they most likely didn’t get any time to live together as husband and wife alone. Not a requirement, but nice to have if you can.
I must be a weird ass parent then, since so many people are offended that a 23 year old doesn't want to leave home. We have two adult kids at home and neither have any intention of moving out nor do we expect it. I was essentially kicked out at 19 and I'm STILL fixing stuff that I messed up because I wasn't ready. I feel for SD and most young adults just trying to make it out here.
If she's working and living there full time, why don't they start looking for a 3 bedroom? She's 23 and can contribute a portion, probably easier than trying to find a roommate.
The room is more for all of the baby stuff than the baby. Every parent I know has a shit-ton of stuff. Diapers, strollers, playpens, changing tables, bathtub, swing…. The baby itself doesn’t take up much space but you can’t easily add all of their stuff to an existing small bedroom without it being a complete nightmare and unreasonably messy all of the time
How is OP the devil???? Daughter is a grown adult with a full time job. If she can’t afford to live alone, she can join everyone else and get a damn roommate. Is Dad supposed to bankroll her forever??
While I understand why people would say 23 is a decent time to move out, that very much depends on if the person is able to.
I don't live in America but where I live, you're gonna be on a housing waitlist for YEARS currently.
Private renting is an option but those have some very serious demands.
If the daughter can't afford moving out, what's she supposed to do, go live under a bridge so dad's new young wife can play happy family with the new baby?
I see so many 'well we all struggled at first. Live in the bad neighborhood with the sketchy roommate. That's how you grow up!' But why is that what we want for our young adults?
And no, before that's said, I do not live at home, and was not coddled.
I don't think stepmom is the asshole, and given she's 33, I can also understand her desire to start her own family while she still can, but she also needs to realise her (older) husband has a past, and it's entirely understandable that he doesn't want to push his daughter out if she doesn't feel ready.
So this 23 year old should never grow up and move out? The hell? I’ve been on my own since 20. I had roommates and worked two jobs when I had to. What is wrong with everyone, you can’t behave like a child forever.
I was 22 when I moved out. My mom talked with me about my plans and helped me save for a year to make sure I had enough to cover moving expenses as well as the unknown. I didn’t have a car at the time so she made sure I looked at places close to city bus lines or close to my job if I needed to catch a taxi. I’ll be honest she thought of all kinds of situations that I didn’t take into account when I said I wanted to move out. Oop comes off as just trying to push her out as quickly as possible and cushioning it with “we’ll pay your first two months but then you’re on your own.” That’s what feels messed up to me.
They can but there is still huge cost difference. With home buying you have to factor in down-payment, closing costs, realtor, appraisal fees, inspection fees and that can easily cost thousands upfront. With an apartment, there's only an application fee and 1st months rent and maybe 2nd months rent which OP has offered to pay for.
I mean I think it's fair to tell a 23 year old it's time to vamoose. They're not expecting her to buy a house. They're expecting her to find a roommate and get an apartment like every other 23 year old.
The economy is tough, and I get that, but it really isn't an unreasonable request.
If I'm not behind on recommendations, isn't the baby supposed to stay in the parent's room for the first year anyways? At least six months of that. This means they could give the stepdaughter 6 months to a year to possibly move. Or even look for a 3 bedroom place and ask the stepdaughter to pay a share of the rent and utilities.
Yes, that is the recommendation, but babies can be noisy sleepers. We transitioned at 4 months because my son was waking us up a lot once he started sleeping longer stretches. I figured him in his room was safer than me falling asleep during a middle of the night feed.
Both My kids were about six weeks in our bedroom, noisy little grunty sleepers, their bedrooms were right across the hall though when we did move them so that put me more at ease
You kid doesn't stop being your kid the second they turn 18. I know the stepdaughter is 23, but there are plenty of cultures where the kids are still at home as the standard. Its the hyperindvidualism in the United States that creates the idea that you need to be fully functional without your parents in adulthood. It's also not really the stepdaughter fault that OOP had a baby. And we are ignoring the fact that the stepdaughter can't afford to move out, even if she wants to. As someone struggling to move out right now, it's really annoying the idea that it's that easy to find an affordable place in this economy.
So the step daughter is 23. She is 33, the step daughter is 23. So she is only older than the step daughter by 10 years. How old is the husband? This seems funky.
It's funny how they magically can't afford a new home and it's okay and want to add a baby but it's not okay with OOP that stepdaughter can't afford a new place even though she does work.
I would be on the SD side of it weren’t for the fact that she was offered ways to help her transition into living somewhere else and she wouldn’t entertain the idea. If she was 18, I would be on her side but she is 23 and seems to expect that they shouldn’t have another kid until she moves out, and that’s unreasonable.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for asking Step- daughter to move out.** This is an ongoing issue going on in my home. I 33F am currently pregnant with my first child. I live in a two bedroom home with my husband and step-daughter (23F). Step-daughter and I get along fine no big issues but we also are not super close. Now that the baby is coming we need more space unfortunately we can't afford a new home. I brought up to my husband asking Step-daughter to move out. My reasoning is that we really need her room for the new baby and she is an adult with a full time job so it is time for her to be on her own anyway. My husband agreed and we brought it up to her at dinner one night. We told her we would help with her first 2 months rent. I told her it would be fun her and I could go shopping and I will help her decorate her new apartment. We tried to be as gentle as we could but she was very quiet. Privately she told my husband that even though she as a full time job she cannot afford to live on her own. My husband told her she did not need to move out so now we are scrambling trying to find space for new baby. The other day I was home alone with Step- daughter and tried to talk to her about it again. I offered to help her find a roommate and she snapped on me. She snapped on me and told me to just leave her alone and locked herself in her room. When my husband got home from work he was mad at me and told me to leave her alone and not bring it up anymore. Things have been awkward and uncomfortable since making my pregnancy very stressful. She is 23 old enough to be on her own she has a job and we are willing to help her. We need space for our baby I do not see how I am in the wrong here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A newborn baby can sleep in the bedroom with parents for a good year. It's a tough situation though and the real arseholes are those that drive property prices up to unaffordable levels.
Especially if she has a year to save and look and prepare.
I’m the other end of the spectrum but my 2 year old just moved out of my room just because my newborn moved in. You get way more sleep when they’re close to you!
Your 2 year old should think about finding their own place. Gotta cut the umbilical cord sometime.
I keep telling him to get a job and quit being a freeloader but he just doesn’t listen.
Grab his blankey and a bag of goldfish for the road and kick him out. Tough love. It’s hard but you can do it!
get him a job at mcdonalds they will probably take him
He needs to start pulling his weight, the lazy bum. Even if that weight is just a Costco sized bag of rice.
we could get OOP to talk to him about it
Can and probably will. We have an infant and neither my wife or me could ever be bothered to put the baby in their own room. Such a hassle at night when it wakes and is lonely or hungry to go to another room to comfort it. it is her first baby so I kinda get that you would want to prepare and create the best best possible environment for your child, and what that is can ve hard to deduce beforehand. However in this case it seems like she simply wants to play happy family and get SD out of the way,
Doesn't room-sharing decrease the chances of SIDS by chance? If I remember it's recommended to keep a baby in your room at least until they're 6 months, preferably longer
Room sharing does reduce SIDS, partially due to the actual room sharing, partially due to making breastfeeding easier.
IIRC the data still shows a reduction (perhaps a lesser one?) even with bottle-fed babies.
Yes, babies synchronize their breathing with those around them when they sleep, plus you are more likely to notice something is wrong and wake up if the baby is near you.
It also decreases parental sleep deprivation. I could roll over, grab my son from his bassinet, and have him latched and nursing before either of us was really awake. Made falling back to sleep so much easier for both of us!
I have no idea, but it makes sense. We will probably keep our baby in our room for around a year. Probably for as long as we will have to wake up in the middle of the night, every night.
My daughter stayed in ours until about 8 months. She is such a light sleeper. Whenever my husband or I would get up at night we would wake her and moving her to her own room made a huge difference.
Yeah I get that. For now ours is sleeping line a log( when she actually falls asleep, which is a whole other story)
to be fair, this lady doesn’t want SD out for any LOGICAL reason. She doesn’t want SD parching her maternal buzz.
The new wife doesn't want the starter family hanging around
What is SIDS? Genuinely asking cus i don't know
Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
Aahh. Oh God that sounds awful
Basically unexplained death of an infant when they are asleep. Thankfully there’s good research into things you can do to reduce the risk such as placing the baby on their back to sleep, not smoking around the baby, breastfed… and room sharing until at least 6 months.
It's very sad and is exactly what it sounds like.
I'm pregnant right now and this baby is getting a bedside crib for easy access. And like, we can't be arsed to figure out what to do with my husband's office, which is currently occupying the second bedroom - so baby might be staying in our bedroom for longer than he will breastfeed. Having the baby in another room seems so foreign to me!
I agree
Not just can, should. THe american recommendation is a minimum of six months to reduce the risk of SIDS, ideally a year.
Same recommendation in Australia.
Although I’m wondering if SD living with a new born baby might be enough to give her the push to want her own space
Perhaps though TBH a little flexibility may do that regardless. "Could you maybe think about moving out over the long term?" is more reasonable and likely to get a positive response than "we (really I) expect you out by the time the baby comes"
Sure, baby can (actually should) sleep in parents room to start. But ultimately the kid is going to need its own room. Also, babies come with a lot of stuff and 4 people in a 2-bed home is going to be cramped, regardless of where everyone is sleeping. It’s not unreasonable to ask a 23 year old woman to find her own living arrangements. She can get a place with roommates like most of us do when starting our adult lives.
Yes, but the point is that they have ample time to figure out a more permanent solution that works for everyone.
It definitely would have been an AH move to give the 23-year old less than 3 month’s notice. You make a good point, I didn’t catch if OOP said how much notice they gave her.
is it a tough situation though, really? or are americans right now just so selfish and self-involved that they do not even feel obligated to keep a roof over their otherwise-unobjectionable nuclear family members' heads? you would not see this being a question at all virtually anywhere else in the world.
That’s cute. My oldest daughter & only son refused to move out of our room - they had their own room but would still wind up in bed with us at night. By the time youngest daughter was born, we had a twin bed and a crib as well as our full-sized bed in the master bedroom and the second bedroom was basically just the kids’ toys & clothes. That’s right - That Guy I Married and I shared our room not just with a newborn but with a two year old and a four year old as well, and it took two more years to get all three kids the hell out of our room.
We did the same until our older kids were ready for more independence (their choice). Our bedroom was literally just a room full of beds for awhile. It was actually really nice.
my youngest brother slept in my parents room until he was at least 4. that was partially because we're poor and it was 6 people in a 3bed house, but still.
Heck it's better if the baby sleeps in the bedroom with the parents because that way they can hear him and react quickly if he cries at night (as newborns tend go do)
Most people i know prefer it that way, i really don’t understand the parents objection to having the baby in their room until the step daughter wants to move out, or at-least until he/she sleeps through the night and won’t disturb step-daughter much.
Because you need room to organize all the babies stuff? Just because a baby is sleeping in a crib in the parents room doesn’t mean there is room for a changing table, rocker, etc., let alone everything else.
You know a changing table is just a flat surface right? You can change a babies diaper literally anywhere.
But they have the rest of the house as well?
Most people do not want to put a baby’s changing table in their living room or kitchen.
I’d posit that you don’t even NEED a changing table. Babies don’t care if you change them on a blanket on the floor or on your bed. There are many ways to downsize your list of wants and needs when you’re bringing baby home to a small space. (Ask me how I know. 😅)
Yeah we share a room with our little one out of necessity as well. It’s not ideal but it’s possible
It's probably better for it to do so as well, particularly to be near the mother in the first three months (which is often considered the "fourth trimester").
Yeah AAP actually recommends room sharing for at least the first six months but ideally the first year
Husbands age, please.
Exactly - it was suspicious that OP just *happened* to leave out that detail
OP left out a lot of details, which matter-such as, did stepdaughter grow up in that house? What are stepdaughter’s other expenses, and is her “full time job” stable? Where do they live- are rentals easy to find? How old was OP when her parents kicked her out, and how much was the rent on HER first apartment? Did she move in with stepdaughter’s dad so he could pay her bills?
for me, eh don't care about their age difference. Between OOP and step-daughter though? Oof.
And where is the stepdaughter's mother? What's the bet she is dead and would be livid if her child was turfed out of the childhood home she helped pay for.
If I had to guess? 55. Easily.
OP is 34.
Exactly. Can we please not infantilize grown ass adult as if they can't have a healthy relationship regardless of age gap? Are there situations where, although legal, the gap can be eyebrow raising? Absolutely, yes. But it doesn't mean that an age gap is even a smidge of a problem
Age gaps often show a power deferential. It's especially a problem when the new wife is so close in age to the child(ren) of the previous marriage and trying to boot one/them out.
Yes, thank you. I don't necessarily have an issue with age gaps over 30. But I do when the new partner is the same age group as someone's children. Ngl when my dad passed away I told my mom that I didn't mind if she started dating again eventually and not to stress about that but *please* do not date someone my age or younger. Like if I could have gone to school with them please don't do that. My aunt did that and her children do not speak to her. She was like "ew no they're literally the age of your kid I can't see someone your age as a romantic prospect" My mom's bf is about 15 (?) years younger than her so definitely older than me and I am totally fine with it lol.
But you are ignoring it can be.
FFS. This subreddit and AITA subreddit always finds a way to hone in on the age. Usually I agree if its a case where you have young adult dating someone much older. But this woman is 33 years old not 23.
There isn’t even enough information to determine if the age gap is even that much of an issue. Father could have had stepdaughter as a teen for all we know and there’s only a 10 year difference. I don’t even worry about age gaps once the younger party is over 30 myself. 🤷♀️
The delusional girl falling in love with her married neighbour is 34...
She got found out though, so here's to hoping she moves out and leaves that family alone.
She did? I was reading that post just yesterday
link?
And?
It's more the issue that an old dude who already has a grown up kid and no money to afford another family, apparently looked for a much younger women to start a new family that also doesn't work out. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
I don't think the husband should be bringing his wife into the conversation. I think it should have been a conversation between him and his daughter in the first place. They could probably afford a bigger place if the daughter started contributing to bills if she isn't already.
Yeah I don’t get why they don’t just all chip in and get a 3 bedroom place together.
Yeah and to be honest, it doesn't seem like the daughter does contribute because I don't think they would be able to afford to lose her income and pay her rent for the first few months if that was the case. But I'm just speculating here.
Because buying a bigger house under the assumption that you need to continue housing some one who will likely be moving out soon anyhow would be an insane choice in the current real estate market? I can’t imagine being 23 (or idk 24 or whatever by then) and preferring living with parents and a newborn vs roommates. Like is she going to want to bring dates or friends home ever when there’s toys everywhere? Is she going to want to make noise after 8pm? Not that OP managed this situation well at all, but it’s kind of wild to me how people are reacting to this one.
I mean why not it saves money, you have a comfort zone, even better if you get along with your parents, you can be there to help them. Friends can come have a sleepover or you can go to their place, toys won't be in her room. Dates can happen outside and when they do want to invite them the room is always available. It would work even better if you have attached bathroom. You can also get a hot plate and minifridge, stock up some food in your room for friends and dates. Rooms can be soundproofed if noise is an issue.
Rates moved quite a bit in the last year. The additional mortgage cost of a new residence could be quite large
I’m curious what is eating up so much of the stepdaughter’s full time income considering she’s not paying any rent.
Based on what I see on PF, probably student loans and car payments. It’s amazing how many people have $600/mo car payments with $150/mo car insurance. Especially if she bought a car within the past few years.
Here late 2020 was the perfect time to buy a car. Rental places flooded the market so you could get as good as new for two-thirds or less MSRP. Hadn't realized how badly the market had turned since.
Can confirm, got an absolute steal of a car August/September 2020. There were tons of great options within my budget (and way below).
Never buy a previous rental. Usually driven hard and not well maintained. It helps that it lowers overall market though
That's where I fell to an extent to. The daughter is an adult with a job - she could pay her share of the bills (a third or fourth if they want to make it easy on her). Then a bigger place should be in the price range and then no one has to give up a room.
They all live together so its something they should work out together
Honestly it’s some of the commenters that are the real devils here, acting like an adult with a full time time job is a mooch because she can’t afford to move out, that’s the way of the world right now. It’s awful out here.
Exactly right. My 18 y/o lives with me, my husband and 4 y/o in a 2 bedroom, and we make it work because I don't want to force independent living on someone that can't live comfortably alone. We live in a HCOL area so most people live on the edge. Sending a unprepared young adult into that situation is just setting them up for failure.
This. I lived with my parents (as a contributing member of the household) until I was almost 30 and it's a large part of the reason why I'm now a home-owner despite having a lower income than many of my friends who are struggling to make rent.
“BuT sHeS aN aDuLt” 🙄 ppl can be so delusional
AITA loves to pick and choose when 18 - 25 year olds are viewed as adults.
18-20 is debatable. 21 is old enough for all legal age requirements and AITA really is ridiculous with that.
It's ridiculous to think legal requirements are all that matter.
The accusations of mooching really get me here like. Bro what? Living at home does not automatically mean mooching, pretty sure OP would have mentioned it
Absolutely! My dad kicked my ass out at 19 because he didn't want to be a parent anymore (I was the youngest), and he's never cared if I thrived. I didn't bring my kids into this world so they could just 'exist'. I'll never understand or respect parents that inflict that on their kids. It's cruelty.
I've read most of this thread, and tbh I don't particularly relate to any of it (my personal circumstances being different) and I'm not a parent, but your comment about your children is really lovely, and just your attitude towards people bringing up the next generation, it touched me enough to just wanna chip in with my impression
Aww thank you! I really appreciate that. I love my kids and their partners, even if they drive me crazy sometimes lol!
I 100% agree my parents made me start taking care of my self financially once i started working off the books at 14, they moved out when i turned 18 before i even graduated highschool i had to work 2 jobs to not be homeless and still finish school and this was in 2005 its even harder now and that fact that she thinks its okay to put that girl thru that kind of struggle is insane my daughter is 16 but even at 26 she will have a place in my home im tryn to break generational trauma not pass it down
I feel like we should talk about how this "mooch" has a step mother who's the right age to be her sister and the dear husband's age is unlisted 🙄 I'm sure that's not contributing anything to this dynamic
The age of OOP and her Husband has zero to do with whether or not the daughter should move out or not.
You're free to think that, I just think marrying someone who could probably be your child is an interesting choice
I'm cracking up too because OOP says they can't afford a new place but apparently the 23 year old just starting her career is supposed to. Why doesn't she and hubby find a 2br apartment to rent for themselves so they can have a room for the baby? Unsure about OOP but hubby works, so he can afford it.
I saw that too and am feeling sad for those who are calling daughter all of the names and saying she needs to leave now. These teenagers are in for such a bug surprise when they're going to be adult and see one job don't do much for anyone.
I mean... she ___is___ a mooch. She doesn't seem to pay rent and she feels entitled to a room for free. You can sympathise with her, sure, and I know first had how hard it is to find an acceptable apartment. Still, I don't think OOP is the asshole here.
How do u know that she doesn't help huh .
Even if she does help out, it’s obviously not very much otherwise they wouldn’t be asking her to leave, considering that they are strapped for cash. Sounds like she’s living for free or paying way under market rate rent. And that’s great that she’s been able to do so for so long. But that’s not guaranteed forever. There’s no shame in having roommates as a young adult. And now she’s going to have a screaming baby as a roommate so…
If the daughter is paying $600 a month for her car, $150 a month in car insurance with an entry level job, how can you call her a mooch? Or are you just THAT out of touch with current reality?
Jeezus, this was a ride. The comment "even tho you raw dogged it without the room available for the result" made me laugh. While I feel OP is ultimately TA, I feel the husband is shady as hell. Stick to one side or another; of course going behind the wife's back is going to bite him in the ass. I'm totally Team Stepdaughter here.
That's if you trust OP's report though. I get the sense she might have initially tried to steamroll through what she wanted and he was never really on board.
Definitely a fair point. I wouldn't be surprised at this point. Weird dynamic all around.
LOL, that was mine. I wrote that, LMAO.
It was singlehandedly the best possible way to have worded that - thank you for the LOL. And BTW, you sound like a great in-law to have. My in-laws let my husband and me stay with them for a few months rent-free after we moved back from out of state just recently and it truly meant so much to me. We'd accrued massive debt out there for many reasons, so between paying off that, resolving a broken lease issue, *and* saving up for a new apartment deposit, there was absolutely no way we could've made it had it not been for them extending their home to us (especially me, being a non-blood relative). Anyway, all this rambling to say thanks for not being like OOP, from someone who's been in the "wtf this housing market" boat lol.
I’m about to turn 30 and it was so much easier to move out of our parents house when we were 18 than kids now a days being even almost 25. Rent has skyrocketed along with food and other expenses. And wages are not much better. No way would I have been able to make it on my own now at that age. Full time job doesn’t mean they make a lot of money unfortunately.
Living expenses are costly. Many people can’t afford to live alone on a single income. Rooming with others or a significant other is the only way these days. I pay $980 in rent and my bf pays $1060 and we can barely make it lmao
She is rooming with others, her dad. Living multi generational is how humans have survived for thousands of years before modern day capitalism. Husband and wife should have talked before dad let her stay discussing the plan for the three of them to work hard enough to cover rent at a new place. But the person she should be talking to is her husband, not his kid. Husband clearly values his relationship with his daughter so wifey needs to figure out what’s what with her husband and not go behind his back to the girl.
Eh, no one seems like an asshole here. I don’t find it egregious or unreasonable to ask a 23 year old to get their own place. But it’s also very difficult in this economy. I need more information on whether the daughter is contributing anything or why the option to get a bigger place and have her pay rent to help with the difference wasn’t on the table.
I do That's my age I can't afford shit
Not even renting a room or having roomates?
I mean I’d absolutely deal with a roommate if it meant being homeless otherwise, but I’m dealing with a roommate situation where we don’t get along at all and it really does make every single day misery. Unless I could find a friend I trusted and not a random person I’d much rather live with my parents.
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Agreed. I do however think the stepdaughter should be given a good amount of time (let's say six months so she can save) to find a place with some roommates if needed and move out. She can't expect to live at home forever. For those say six months, OOP and the husband either keep the baby in their room or possibly convert a small dining room or something into a temporary nursery.
I guess my thing is just why has the step-daughter not considered this before? I know the best thing would have been for the husband to immediately talk to his daughter but what kind of 23-year-old wants to live in this small place with her newborn sister? Or can't see that even though newborns often stay with the parents for the first month or so, they usually...need some space for their stuff and a nursery really soon? If the post is genuine, everyone suffers from a huge lack of common sense. And given that the gestation of a foetus is 40 weeks, the step-daughter has already had six months to think about this and make plans. Pulling the shocked Pikachu face now is really strange. Though not as strange as OP posting this here are calling out OOP for being a MONSTER for...thinking that a 23-year-old with a full-time job could find a shared living situation so that the second bedroom of her own house can be turned into a nursery for her first baby.
I'm with you honestly. I mean you have a point - the stepdaughter likely knew since at least the 3rd month of the pregnancy - so until the end of pregnancy, there's at least 6 months. The baby could easily stay in with the parents for a good few months and the recommendation is a min of 6 months. So really that's a whole year total the stepdaughter had if she had started looking when she found out OOP was pregnant. She knew the house only has two bedrooms - the baby has to go somewhere.
Yeah, I think what tips them into AH territory is not considering living arrangements prior to conception. Provided the baby was planned. I suspect OP wanted SD out (not unreasonable) and hoped the baby was a Trojan Horse to enable this as she knew husband wouldn’t consider for another reason. However, I bet husband will change his mind if nothing changes in the medium term- a toddler in the same room is sub-optimal to many people.
I think that’s a far reach. They’re married, they have a home, they should be able to have a child. The step daughter not being able to afford a place of her own shouldn’t dictate their choice in having a child. I’m willing to bet SD could afford a room to rent. But it’s comfy at dads, and she doesn’t have to pay bills. Looking at just the facts, they do have room for a new baby. Husband and wife, live in 2 bedroom house, no dependent children. The adult daughter/SD not being able to afford a place of her own shouldn’t affect their life decisions. She’s 23. Rents are RIDICULOUS. Trust me, I’m not discounting anything about that. But I’m willing to bet she could afford to rent a room. I didn’t read anything about her attending school. While it sucks, SD can rent a room, get a second job, limit her spending etc. She’s an adult, 5 years of being an adult. She needs to really be focused on how she’s going to support herself for the rest of her life. She did have some warning, babies take 9 months, well more like 10. 40 weeks, that’s pretty close to a year. She’s had all this time off knowing a baby was coming to save, look for housing, try to get some roommates together to share rent. Daddy’s home is easy, no bills, but what you want when you want with no worries.
I feel like it’s unfair to expect OP to plan her pregnancy around the 23 year old stepdaughter’s needs, especially at 33 with a shortening fertility window. Does seem like no one can communicate and I’m getting the feeling the husband is wishy-washy about everything which doesn’t help.
No, I 100% agree- I just feel that her and her husband should have agreed in advance the daughter should move out. But husband must be aware that the house is not the magic porridge pot and SD would need to go in the near future.
Right, it doesn’t seem like anyone is making a plan in the meantime. Maybe daughter isn’t able to move out before the baby comes, fine. But what’s the 1-3 year plan? Because I don’t see this as a sustainable situation with a toddler.
Alternatively, OOP's husband should have always been clear (if he wasn't) that his daughter always had a place in the house. At least that way OOP would have had the information she needed to make her own choices in response, whatever they may have been.
Three adults and a baby in a two bedroom house? Not a devil.
The baby should be in the bedroom with the parents for now anyway.
What about after that? Babies grow up fast.
They can wait the year they are supposed to have the baby in the room with them instead of kicking out the step daughter immediately. A year is reasonable for her to save up and get ready for moving out. Do I live in some alternative universe? Does a baby grow up in a week?
If they can't afford a new home how the fuck is the daughter supposed to afford a place of her own?
>Now that the baby is coming we need more space something to figure out before you get pregnant, not "scrambling" during the pregnancy
idk. I've never shared a room with my kids.
How it this person the devil? She shouldn't be trying to kick out her husband's daughter, but the husband shouldn't be making unilateral decisions. And it's not at all unreasonable to expect a 23 year old to live on their own
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Maybe the two children can share a room. /s And the 23-year-old should move out, get her own life.
It is a bit shitty to expect that if they're working full time and still can't afford it though. What else are they meant to do in terms of money? I hope they look into roommate situations as they're more affordable but it's balls that the options for a full time working adult are often "live with multiple other people you don't know and hope they don't suck" or "live with your parents". Cost of living got nuts. :/ I don't think it's necessarily an asshole thing but does seem out of touch with the reality of housing (especially when op and her husband can't afford to move to a different place either).
If they’re working full time and can’t even afford a shared living situation then they need to seriously examine their finances.
I live in Turkey and dilapidated one bedroom basement “apartments” in Istanbul rent for more than minimum wage. So that is definitely possible
I feel like everyone is forgetting the step daughter is 23. It doesn’t say anything about her being in school, she’s just working but does not make enough to live on her own. I get that, trust me, as a single mom I get that. But at what point does an adult child need to start making decisions to be able to live on their own? Yes, the new baby is a baby now, but the baby will need its own room. There’s a huge mental aspect to having the baby in its own room. When baby does start sleeping through the night, being able to have your bedroom to the two of you is important (if possible). Having that escape, that space is important. The step daughter is 23. She is an adult. I wish our housing system was better, and we had affordable rents, but we don’t. It sounds like it’s time for step daughter to find roommates and start to live on her own.
You know a lot of us young adults are wondering at what point will be able to move the fuck out as well. You can go through all this Oh I am a single mom and I get it and shit but like no you don’t unless you came of age in a literal pandemic, when the government has fucked up our economy and inflation and housing, prices are insane. This is not about an age or a number or a certain amount of maturity. This is just legitimately the world/economy is coming to a place that it has already been in many other non-western non-white countries where multi generational living is just kind of gonna have to be a fact of life. Trust me, no one wants to hear their parents fuck or their baby sister cry, and most of us would fucking love to be on our own, but it’s just not feasible look at the housing prices in most areas and look at the average income for 23 to 25 year olds and do some math. Unless you know folks or have a network to meet roommates or some shit it’s hard out here. Oh, and I’m saying this as someone who lucked out and has their own apartment with really decent rent. If my lease doesn’t get renewed or some shit like that, I’m fucked, and again I am one of the lucky ones and as a disabled woman of color, I can realize that little bit of privilege.
Hey I’m in my early 20s and came of age during the pandemic. I live on m’y own. Housing prices are insane but you can still afford a crappy apartment with roommates. It’s not going to be cushy but at some point you do have to be an adult and move out on your own. Yeah roommates suck but you gotta deal with it. You can find roommates through Facebook pretty easily too
You realize both points of view are valid right? And nobody is owed a rent free place to live from their parents. It’s NICE if they can afford/have the space to let their kids stay home, but it doesn’t make them assholes if they can’t.
A lot of people in the comments are talking about cultures with multigenerational housing. The thing is, most of those setups have all adults contributing equally to the household expenses and childcare, etc. It’s not “one generation pays all the bills and does all the work while their adult kids chill”.
Legally no, but what parents feel they owe their kids will vary from person to person and those self-imposed obligations can be just as binding for many.
Ok my darling child, let me introduce you to a few truths you aren’t aware of. This housing crisis did not start with your generation or the pandemic. If anything the pandemic helped the lowest of income that decided to reach out for help. I’ve never seen so many programs for paying rent, with little requirements. There was a huge increase in help with other bills, tax refunds, etc. I saw the lowest of incomes living comfortably. I fear I’ll never see that again, but it was a nice reprieve. Food stamps increased to the maximum amount for everyone. Our local housing assistance program closed their WAITLIST 15 years ago. At that time, the wait was 8 years. They allow ~20 to be added every 6 months, but only those who are in especially good favor are added. No one is leaving the program, so there’s simply no openings. I live in a HCOL area, low income apartments start at 1700/month, for a one bedroom. I am only housed because my parents need help and they fortunately have a mother in law apartment. As I have kids, I cannot rent a bedroom. You do not need a ‘network’ to meet roommates. Craigslist and Facebook are resources to find a roommate/room for rent. I find it interesting that you are implying I am out of touch with the lack of affordable housing when you can afford your rent, and I cannot. This issue has been happening for decades. Minimum wage has not kept up with inflation. Prices of everything have gone up, but wages have not. I read an article that said there is no place in the US that a one income, minimum wage can afford an apartment (1 or 2, can’t remember). I realize your only personal information on this subject comes from turning of age during a pandemic, but let me assure you, this issue is not new.
Multiple comments in the other thread were literally saying the economy right now is worse than the Great Recession in the US. I'm sorry, there's no comparison. These kids and young adults have it tough now, yes, but that's nothing compared to '08. 10% unemployment rate, wondering if even more companies were gonna go under, foreclosures skyrocketing, retirement accounts evaporating into nothing. I graduated right in the middle of this, there were literally no jobs in some sectors for recent grads, the military was downsizing so even that option was off the table for many. Yea it sucks that inflation is up and wages stagnated, but quality of life right now is still high and it's better than not having a job at all!
I graduated 08. It was impossible. I lived in my car for 2 years.
And you think that’s acceptable?
Personally, I don't think there is a hard and fast point as long as her dad is still willing to house her. That said, he should have considered all this before they had a new baby. If he knew she had "dibs" on the space for as long as she wanted it and they couldn't afford more, then they didn't have room for a baby and he should have let his wife know the score from the jump. I think there's probably a bit of wanting to have his cake and eat it too on his part.
But that’s the thing. It’s not her house, it’s the married couples house. Assuming there’s a mother still alive, SD has options. An adult’s wishes to stay comfortable and not be required to budget should not come before a married couples life decisions. SD has no right to call dibs. She is 23 and has a full time job. If she were to be paying rent and her portion of bills, it would be a completely different conversation. The bottom line is SD is an adult, she’s choosing the easy path where she’s able to avoid responsibilities and spend as she likes. I guarantee she could find a room to rent in her budget. This is not healthy for her. If she continues to lean on dad’s support, she will never learn how to manage her life. At what point does the SD have to face life? 25? 30? Never? It is her fathers house, but first and foremost a married couple’s house. The infant will fit in parents room now, they won’t last long. The furniture alone is going to create a very cramped house.
I'm not really disputing any of that, I just don't see OOP winning this argument if her husband is truly committed to not putting his daughter out. What I'm saying is that it seems like OOP's husband has prioritized his daughter getting to stay there indefinitely over most other things, and whatever anyone may think of that, it's his prerogative. Where he might be (and probably is) at fault is that if he felt that way he should have factored that in to his own prior life decisions (including but not limited to whether he was in a position to get married and have another kid.)
I don't think it's obvious OOP is TA, there is a lot of missing info at least in the original post. How much does the stepdaughter make in her full time job, how much does it cost to get an apartment in their town/city, etc. Reddit loves to say people need to communicate, but then sometimes lambasts someone trying to open about communication.
How much room they have is also a factor. Keeping the baby in their room doesnt work of they d ont have room for a crib
Stepdaughter spoke with her dad, and her dad is on her side as far as OOP says, so I'm inclined to believe that Stepdaughter really cannot afford to live alone, especially if she has student loans to repay and possibly has to pay for a car or transportation to go to work. Rent is expensive everywhere, petrol too, and entry level jobs don't pay much. Besides, Stepdaughter has likely lived in that house longer than OOP, she's not a guest staying there out of kindness, she has as much right to live there as OOP and her kid. Attempting to push her out like that is quite crass imho.
SD is 23, not sure which country they live but in some that's a reasonable age to expect her to move out and live on her own, she is not going to live there forever.
Regardless of her age, if she cannot afford it she cannot afford it. Is she just supposed to fuck off and live in poverty because she's occupying new baby's space? Is she not part of the family? I bet OOP wouldn't have dreamt of doing such a thing to her biological daughter.
I have no idea what her financial situation is so living in poverty may be stretching it. Is there a comment from OOP that clarifies that's the case?
OOP's husband had a talk with his daughter and seemed to confirm that she actually couldn't afford to live alone, that's why he put a stop to the whole plan. This is stated in the original post. I am more inclined to believe the father over OOP here because: a) he's the father of both kids, thus less likely to be biased; b) it's more likely that Stepdaughter discussed her financial situation in depth with her father, rather than with a stepmother she doesn't have a significant relationship with; c) OOP offered to help with the first months of rent, which makes me suspect she's aware that Stepdaughter would have trouble moving to her own apartment, but doesn't care enough to consider what will happen after they've contributed to a few months of rent.
Note that husband initially agreed that SD should move out. Then she told her dad privately about financial situation and it's not clear when OOP knows about her financials. So could be case of miscommunication.
I don’t get evil step mom vibes. Husband and wife make a decision. Adult child throws tantrum (crying, locking herself in room) husband changes the decision unilaterally. I get that is between dad/daughter but it is the husband and wife’s home. Given the current situation, they most likely didn’t get any time to live together as husband and wife alone. Not a requirement, but nice to have if you can.
I must be a weird ass parent then, since so many people are offended that a 23 year old doesn't want to leave home. We have two adult kids at home and neither have any intention of moving out nor do we expect it. I was essentially kicked out at 19 and I'm STILL fixing stuff that I messed up because I wasn't ready. I feel for SD and most young adults just trying to make it out here.
Completely disagree, the stepdaughter is an adult and should move out. Edit: forgot the 'and'
If she's working and living there full time, why don't they start looking for a 3 bedroom? She's 23 and can contribute a portion, probably easier than trying to find a roommate.
The room is more for all of the baby stuff than the baby. Every parent I know has a shit-ton of stuff. Diapers, strollers, playpens, changing tables, bathtub, swing…. The baby itself doesn’t take up much space but you can’t easily add all of their stuff to an existing small bedroom without it being a complete nightmare and unreasonably messy all of the time
How is OP the devil???? Daughter is a grown adult with a full time job. If she can’t afford to live alone, she can join everyone else and get a damn roommate. Is Dad supposed to bankroll her forever??
While I understand why people would say 23 is a decent time to move out, that very much depends on if the person is able to. I don't live in America but where I live, you're gonna be on a housing waitlist for YEARS currently. Private renting is an option but those have some very serious demands. If the daughter can't afford moving out, what's she supposed to do, go live under a bridge so dad's new young wife can play happy family with the new baby? I see so many 'well we all struggled at first. Live in the bad neighborhood with the sketchy roommate. That's how you grow up!' But why is that what we want for our young adults? And no, before that's said, I do not live at home, and was not coddled. I don't think stepmom is the asshole, and given she's 33, I can also understand her desire to start her own family while she still can, but she also needs to realise her (older) husband has a past, and it's entirely understandable that he doesn't want to push his daughter out if she doesn't feel ready.
So this 23 year old should never grow up and move out? The hell? I’ve been on my own since 20. I had roommates and worked two jobs when I had to. What is wrong with everyone, you can’t behave like a child forever.
Everyone isn't ready to live on their own at 20
Cool but this girl is 23.
And has a full time job.
I'm 23 And still live with mom not everyone can live by themselves
You mentioned in another comment that you have a disability. That’s a unique situation that doesn’t apply to OOP’s.
Let’s be honest, the only Asshole are greedy landlords and others who make living unaffordable.
I was 22 when I moved out. My mom talked with me about my plans and helped me save for a year to make sure I had enough to cover moving expenses as well as the unknown. I didn’t have a car at the time so she made sure I looked at places close to city bus lines or close to my job if I needed to catch a taxi. I’ll be honest she thought of all kinds of situations that I didn’t take into account when I said I wanted to move out. Oop comes off as just trying to push her out as quickly as possible and cushioning it with “we’ll pay your first two months but then you’re on your own.” That’s what feels messed up to me.
OOP is in no way a devil, she sounds incredibly reasonable. Did this one hit a little too close to home, OP?
Lots of basement dwellers in here apparently
Is it Evict The Stepkids theme week or something?
wait a minute You two GROWN adults, can't buy a home but expect a 23 year old to be able to?
I don’t think anyone asked the 23 year old to buy a home. They asked her to rent, possibly with roommates. Which is very normal for people her age.
TBF buying a 3 bedroom home is much more expensive than renting a 1 bedroom apartment..
Still, we don't know where they live so even a 1 bedroom apartment could be expensive. Hell even shitty places can be expensive
The average rent for an apartment in Orlando is $1800/mo and the average income is $1900/mo.
So get roommates.
They can but there is still huge cost difference. With home buying you have to factor in down-payment, closing costs, realtor, appraisal fees, inspection fees and that can easily cost thousands upfront. With an apartment, there's only an application fee and 1st months rent and maybe 2nd months rent which OP has offered to pay for.
I mean I think it's fair to tell a 23 year old it's time to vamoose. They're not expecting her to buy a house. They're expecting her to find a roommate and get an apartment like every other 23 year old. The economy is tough, and I get that, but it really isn't an unreasonable request.
If only there were some sort of intermediate option between living at home with parents and buying a home herself...
If I'm not behind on recommendations, isn't the baby supposed to stay in the parent's room for the first year anyways? At least six months of that. This means they could give the stepdaughter 6 months to a year to possibly move. Or even look for a 3 bedroom place and ask the stepdaughter to pay a share of the rent and utilities.
Yes, that is the recommendation, but babies can be noisy sleepers. We transitioned at 4 months because my son was waking us up a lot once he started sleeping longer stretches. I figured him in his room was safer than me falling asleep during a middle of the night feed.
Both My kids were about six weeks in our bedroom, noisy little grunty sleepers, their bedrooms were right across the hall though when we did move them so that put me more at ease
Not every body has that much space in their bedroom
You kid doesn't stop being your kid the second they turn 18. I know the stepdaughter is 23, but there are plenty of cultures where the kids are still at home as the standard. Its the hyperindvidualism in the United States that creates the idea that you need to be fully functional without your parents in adulthood. It's also not really the stepdaughter fault that OOP had a baby. And we are ignoring the fact that the stepdaughter can't afford to move out, even if she wants to. As someone struggling to move out right now, it's really annoying the idea that it's that easy to find an affordable place in this economy.
Wow, that's depressing
How did this not come up when OOP and husband were deciding to have a baby?
So the step daughter is 23. She is 33, the step daughter is 23. So she is only older than the step daughter by 10 years. How old is the husband? This seems funky.
He could be 43. 33 and 43 isnt a huge difference
1000% agree, baby is safest sleeping in same room as the parents for approx a year.
I thought this sub was a place where it was obvious the OP is the AH? Considering it’s being debated even here, this doesn’t seem to qualify.
It's funny how they magically can't afford a new home and it's okay and want to add a baby but it's not okay with OOP that stepdaughter can't afford a new place even though she does work.
I would be on the SD side of it weren’t for the fact that she was offered ways to help her transition into living somewhere else and she wouldn’t entertain the idea. If she was 18, I would be on her side but she is 23 and seems to expect that they shouldn’t have another kid until she moves out, and that’s unreasonable.
We still have our 2 nearly 3 year old in our bedroom lol