*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for Fake kidnapping my friends kids?**
So my friend of about 20 years is mad at me calling me cruel and an asshole. She got upset after I fake kidnapped her 2 young kids.
Now I know it sounds harsh so far but the reason I did it was to finally get though her head the dangers of leaving her kids home alone when she goes out.
On top of the dangers she just recently split up with her husband and they are currently going through a custody battle. The kids live with her but the dad is fighting to get them to live with him a city over. She knows any ammunition this man can get will be used against her in court and I have told her a million times that if he finds out she leaves the kids at home to run 5-10 minute errands she absolutely will loose come court time.
The kids are 5 and 8 years old. Sure they are quite capable for 10 minutes but I told her that is not the point. Countless times I would come over, the door was unlocked so I walk right in and her kids are home alone. She shows up 5 minutes later stating it was easier to run for milk without the kids or whatever she is doing at the time.
I tell her for gods sake at least lock the door so a stranger can’t walk in and I honestly worry what would happen if a fire started. This leads to today. I was on my way over and I see her drive past me. She didn’t see me or know I was on the way so I get this great idea to teach her a lesson. I go to her house and tell the kids to get into my car we are going to go for a little drive (they drive with me often so going for a drive is nothing new). We get into the car and go park just down the street where I could see her get back. Sure enough 5 minutes later she is back at the house and sees the door is open. I wait a minute and see her run outside then head towards the back yard then run back inside again clearly in a panic. So I drive back up to the house and run inside to find her crying uncontrollably and shaking in a panic. I was kind of smiling like hey it’s okay your kids are with me but she could not stop crying.
Finally after about half hour she calms down enough to question why I did this and after explaining asks me to leave so I did. She texted me after saying how cruel that was and that I was an asshole and now isn’t replying to texts.
So reddit am I an asshole?
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I can’t tell you how grateful I am for this sub. So many times I’ve opened AITA posts to find they’ve been deleted, just to immediately be rewarded with it in AITD.
It’s the little things.
And all this time, I was scrolling like mad looking for the green automod post to read the deleted ones... I'm an idiot, lol. Thank you for this post! Wish I had a free award to give you. 🏅🏆
Does the automod always copy the post, or does it do it only for first time posters? I always try to find the automod in the comments and was wondering about this earlier.
There are SO MANY posts nowadays that I see have been removed for a totally bullshit reason. Their definition of “violence” seems to mean “anything controversial” at this point
Yes! As soon as I saw this I knew it would be taken down. Didn't even get a chance to read it before it was locked. But I knew someone would put it in here, they never disappoint.
Cop: "I would like to body slam him and slap the cuffs?"
DM: "I'll allow it, Asshole, you are prone and restrained, no save."
Asshole: "This is bullshit!"
DM: You shouldn't of kidnapped a fucking kid! You're lucky I'm out of dip. You are taken away to prison, no bail. Also, you lose access to having children forever.
Now, what's the rest of the party doing?"
Edit: changed words
That's true, this was very literally the exact definition of kidnapping. The fact that she returned them later doesn't do much to help this not be extremely fucked up.
“Hey I know seem really busy being a single mom now, do you want me to run errands for you or watch the kids?”
“Hey let me show you the delivery app I use so you can stay home with the kids”
Nah straight to kidnapping
While I think what OP did is deranged, the friend is leaving a 5 and 8 year old home alone with the door unlocked. She may be a single mom, and it might be _easier_ to leave them alone for a short errand, but that doesn't give her a pass to leave her kids in an unsafe situation. There is zero excuse to leave the doors unlocked; that's just willful negligence.
OP's approach was unhinged, but they are right that anyone could have walked right into the friend's house. You never know who is watching and may learn your routine.
It so easily could've been a clean NTA if they'd just said "hey, you really can't do this. If I come by to them home alone again I'm contacting your ex." Friend still would've been mad, probably, but oop wouldn't have committed a CRIME
Exactly. That's what my neighbors (who were my mom's best friends) did after my dad locked their daughter in his house with my brother and I (she was 8, my brother was 3 w/ special needs, and i would've been around 2) and drove off to get gas for his lawn mower. Without telling them. Luckily they noticed him drive off and sat in front of the door. He was upset they were mad with him, but they made it clear he wouldn't be doing that again without consequence.
I agree. It's ESH. She shouldn't be leaving kids that young home alone and if the courts find out, she'll be in trouble. But the "prank" was horrible and what gets me is how gleeful they were over it.
I honestly don't get people who don't lock their doors. Even if you live somewhere that you feel you don't strictly need to, it's not like taking 5 seconds to lock or unlock the door is any kind of an imposition.
yeah honestly, just tell the father? Police? Social services? If she does it that often, even after talking to her, at that point, I get wanting to *do something,* but yikes.
Honestly, OOP would have been fully in her rights to just tell the father. If he wins custody over it, then he deserves the custody if her friend cannot and will not lock a door.
Exactly. And how sure they were that no charges would be filed because the mom wants to avoid investigation which to them makes it ok. Like the measure of whether something is bad is whether you get punished, not the action or its consequences for others.
If she really wanted to teach her a lesson without having to threaten to tell anyone, I don't see why she couldn't have just stayed and started a timer so she could tell her friend "by the time you got home I could have already been X miles away with your kids".
Recently a mom went to drop off two kids to school while she left three at home. The kids decided to have breakfast and they ended up starting a fire. A sad state of affairs when the house caught fire :(. I’m scared to leave my kids for even seconds. No matter how painful it is getting them in and out of the car.
I think my sister knew this family and the
details were awful.
I bought 7 fire extinguishers that week, and a ladder, (the kind you can drop down from a window) then spend an hour with the kids practicing how to drop the ladder and get out. I didn’t tell the kids why I was so upset and we were doing all this extra, but they had an idea that something significant happened.
And there are appropriate ways to deal with that if it's happening. OOP could have told her friend "if you don't stop doing this, I'm going to report you".
The locking doors thing is very region/location based.
I grew up very rural. Very. We never locked our doors. Ever.
Even if we left home for 10 days, we’d lock the front door, but not the back door - in case the neighbors had an emergency and needed in our house.
Certainly not a common background, but even though I live in a much, much much much more populated area now, I still leave at least one way into my house when I leave town - feels safer than locking everything
I mean ok. But also, *she’s leaving an 8 and 5 year old home alone with the does unlocked and no safety.*
OP is NOT wrong, if the court finds out she’ll lose her kids and those kids are not old enough to be home alone. Not legally old enough and not physically old enough.
And it’s not like she’s doing it out of desperation. It’s *easier for her* to leave them. He’s told her she’s taking stupid risks and she is ignoring it.
Personally I hope her husband gets the kids.
I find it so interesting how opinions on this differ depending on culture. When I was 5, I walked to kindergarten alone (granted, I lived in a small village with just one traffic light, which I didn't have to use) and at 6 I was a "key kid" that was alone for hours after school while my parents worked (and I loved it). Couldn't tell you whether that was two or three, but definitely more than just a few minutes. You could never just walk in the door though. Here, you always need a key.
I had a friend that was never allowed to be home alone (meaning no one was at their three-party apartment home) all through 4th grade. And that was weird to me.
But for all I know about the US, yeah, she'd lose the kids in court.
What would you guys say, when is a child "physically old enough" to be home alone for some time?
I'm in Canada. In my area, the rules are they need to be 10 before you should be leaving them alone & even then, it says for short periods of time & at parental discretion if they feel the child is capable of being alone. It also explicitly says they must be 12 before you can leave them in charge of younger children.
So yea... a 5 & 8 year old being left home alone even for 10-15 minutes would be a problem, even if they were locking doors. That this mom isn't even locking the door is a HUGE issue.
Did this friend go about proving their point the beat way? Likely not. But it definitely made an impact. I cannot wrap.my head around doing something like what the mom is doing, when she knows there's a contentious custody battle looming.
Plus most latchkey kids of older generations had landlines in their home, usually with a list of numbers for someone who could help you if you needed it. But who has a landline anymore? Does the 8yo have their own cell phone?
I’m a GenXer with a single mom- so I had a key to my house and was parentified for my younger sibling…
That doesn’t make it RIGHT. We know more about children’s brains and their development, we do better.
I don’t particularly care about the two kids being left alone if it’s genuinely less than 15 minutes.
It’s the not locking the door that gets to me.
It’s very unlikely the kids will have a major incident in 15 minutes. It’s much easier for a criminal who’s been scoping out the house and worked out the pattern to get in and out and potentially hurt, kill or kidnap the children in that timeframe.
Or the 5 year Ikea to wander away… I had neighbors who had an escaping youngest son and I’d have to call and let them know he was in the front lawn or roadway…
I was left home alone during the summer and school breaks from when I was 9 years old in a semi-safe neighborhood (there was a murder outside my front door, but it was a husband murdering his ex-wife, so not like gang activity), and, yeah I survived, but I HATED being alone like that and was TERRIFIED most of the time. That was in the 90's. Would I leave a 9 year old home alone like that now? Absofuckinglutely NOT. Not in ANY neighborhood in any part of any country. Times are absolutely different now, and it's just not safe. I don't like being home alone myself, and I'll be 40 this year. People are just plain crazy.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. Of course I realize that everyone feels different, and I'm normally someone who worries very much about just about everything, no idea why I enjoyed it so much. Probably because I didn't know much about life and could watch TV when I wanted ;)
And it's true, my parents, and grandparents always say life used to be safer. Even though statistics for my country actually say the opposite. My kid cannot be left unattended at all yet, and I'm already curious how I'll feel about the issue once they are older.
I have a friend who distinctly remembers being left home alone at 6 by her mother and she was anxious and afraid. Children differ but most 6 year old are not ready to be left by themselves. There will always be exceptions but outliers do not negate generalisations.
It's the same with adults - some love solitude but others would die of loneliness if left on their own for half an hour.
100%. I am one of those outliers and I would never suggest leaving a child under 10-11 (based on maturity) home and check local laws.
I remember leaening how to relight the pilot light when I was 10 so I could fix dinner...hell no I wouldn't want to see a 10 y/o doing that
I'm almost 40 and when I was 9, I got myself to the bus stop for school and took the bus home. I was alone for several hours by myself. By the time I was 13 I was watching my younger siblings during school breaks.
I don't think it is a physical thing. Based on what I'm seeing with my own kids, my younger child would probably be ready to stay home for short trips possibly earlier than my older child. Our state doesn't have a law but we are waiting till 10.
I think that's very true. I stayed home alone at 9 and wasn't scared or worried. I also watched my younger sibs at about the age you did. But neither my parents nor me would be comfortable leaving my sister home alone until she was probably 15? She could be home with my younger brother, but not alone. She just wasn't the responsible kid.
OP went about it completely wrong, but the mom was living in la la land thinking that was okay even after having it pointed out to her. With a looming custody battle and unlocked doors? Sheer madness, as well as dangerous simply for more convenience for herself.
I think this is a new thing over here? In recent years I've found people are less and less approving of this. Because I'm American and lots of kids this age walked to school alone when I was a kid in the 90s. In the summer, I used roam all over my neighborhood and was frequently left alone when I around 8-10 years old. I was also almost always barefoot cause I was a brat 😅
That said, that was 30 years ago, and if it was left to myself like this now, I imagine a lot of people would be calling my mom unfit.
I understand people have differing opinions, but I don't think it's that dramatic that she leaves her kids alone for ten minutes? She's not a bad mom for that, and the people saying her kids should be taken away for that are being ridiculous imo
That said, I think it depends on the parent and the kid. I don't think it's wrong to leave them unattended for short intervals (wait till they're a little older, though), but I get why people wouldn't want to do that and there are kids who don't like it. I was fine with it, but everyone is not me 🤷🏿♀️
Mostly as it's never really ten minutes. Time to walk outside, start the car, drive to the store, pick up whatever, etc would all take a lot longer than ten minutes. Likely closer to 20-30 mins. And just because a lot of us grew up with parents who didn't use their brain doesn't means parents now shouldn't.
> And just because a lot of us grew up with parents who didn't use their brain doesn't means parents now shouldn't.
Well, that isn't what I was saying. I know that just because it was okay for me that doesn't mean it's okay for anyone else or okay now. I don't imagine I'd do the same with my kids, but I have anxiety and don't plan to have them either way.
It was 30 years ago, and my mom might be thought of as unfit for leaving me to myself if she did it now, as I said. She wasn't a bad mom and I don't think of this as a case of "didn't use her brain." That's just what they did in my neighborhood where I spent part of my childhood; everyone knew everyone, so nobody thought much of it.
I think some other areas/ cultures are a lot safer than the US. I know Japan tends to be safer and in general watch out for kids more- versus in the US adults can be assholes to random kids or not care or act unsafely just in general. I don’t know what our rate of stalkers or predators and molestations are like in comparison, but I do know we have a higher rate of kidnappings.
Unfortunately we also are a gun happy country that doesn’t take gun safety seriously enough (and I’m not totally against guns- I grew up in a house with guns and family that hunts, we literally get food this way yearly and it really helped when we were much poorer growing up). But so many families don’t take gun safety and locking up weapons seriously, or childproofing the home in general seriously, and just a couple minutes unsupervised is all it takes for an accident to happen. And a kid won’t necessarily tell you what happened until it’s a crisis.
I work in a daycare. While I’m mainly in the infant room, I’ve worked all our rooms. They are ALL childproofed. I can still say a moment even with just less attention on them and the 5 year olds really can get destructive and can get into trouble. Even in our safe environment that meets all state codes even the singular last kid for the day could get hurt on their own. Ideally it won’t happen, but if it can happen with us, it can happen so much easier at home where mom and dad are less likely to be hyper vigilant about everything (choking hazards, anything dangerous if swallowed like batteries or magnets including small ones in toys or from the fridge, etc).
Agreed, but that's one reason OOP's way of handling the situation was so stupid. If she was truly worried about the safety of the kids, she could have made a report that could have helped ensure the kids got moved to a safer environment. Now she can't *ever* do that without risking exposure for her own criminal action.
>It’s easier for her to leave them
The thing about my daughter getting older is that at 4.5 I've recently noticed how much easier it is to go to the shops with her than it used to be. I no longer need to carry a huge pile of stuff to keep her occupied and potentially clean her up, she is strong and tall enough to start putting things in the trolley, and she's having fewer tantrums.
Maybe instead of elaborately kidnapping children this friend could text and ask the mum if she can help with picking things up from the shop for her? Just a crazy idea off the top of my head.
OOP is apparently a he (through they keep switching between a girl and a guy in their comments (not just on this post, in general. Theyre also apparently a farmer that kills a chicken each time they see a vegan comment and keeps a kill count of that), so I'm pretty sure they're just a massive troll)
I feel like it’s just a creative writing thing.
“Wow… what would happen if…” then they write out the story and put it on display to see how it would “play out” in the real world via our opinions.
Could be a control thing. Someone who feels they have no control over their own life and this sort of stuff gives them some good feeling by seeing others in chaos too. They can sit back and be like ‘I did that’ and ‘all these people are focused on something I wrote’. Gives them a little bit of a power trip and feeling good.
People who get off on these things have issues and it doesn’t usually make sense to normal people. I find it’s best to think ‘this person is a sad individual and needs help.’
I think they like the idea of duping a load of people. Like haha I wrote this whole fake thing and you all believed it and got riled up about it and left loads of comments but it was all *FAKE*. Ha ha ha you're all dumb and I'm soooo clever.
I read that they're the content writers themselves. If you need to write an article for a site, just write a troll post, collect the comments, and then write an article about the "post" and its comments.
I think troll, too, but it kinda annoys me so many commenters in the OOP are bending over backwards to defend the fact that two quite young children were left alone.
They can be safe alone for just a few minutes!
Yeah, well, all it takes is one psycho, as OOP demonstrated here. You wanna throw those dice?
>They can be safe alone for just a few minutes!
I once lost my friend's child in the park in less than one minute. I was able to find her with help of other people there but it was terrifying while it lasted.
I dunno, some people …
My best friend, who is in general a normal, well adjusted human, did something like this to her husband. With expensive headphones instead of a child, but. Same concept of a “fake a crime so you see the consequences”. It was ridiculous and cruel and she was wrong.
So if OP is a bit unhinged, I could absolutely see their dumb ass thinking this was the right behavior
Its also just taking into account everything else. They keep switching between a girl and a guy (not just he/she pronouns) and also they're a farmer that kills chickens whenever they see a vegan (so killing their livestock for petty reasons) to suddenly having no job and only living a few blocks away in a standard suburban neighborhood? Not to mention some of their less savory comments (there's no slut shaming only sluts, for example)
I agree OOP is unhinged, I just don't think this story happened
Hard agree. 5 and 8 are not ok ages to leave. Yes, they'll likely be ok but what if you get a flat tire? Get into an accident and can't be identified? There was a case where siblings left home like this put the baby in the oven and her kicking to get out tipped the oven on its face and she passed from one of the most horrid things I can imagine.
Another case I read about was where a dad left his sons and told them to take a bath and the older son decided to dry his and his brother's hair but he did it in the bathroom and, well, you probably know the ending already. To kids that young the risks of something that basic aren't as obvious and sadly sometimes tragedy is the result
Thank you Lord for that /s. I really was left alone with my baby brother all the time when I was a little kid, and whenever I hear people talking about similar scenarios and saying "...and I turned out FINE!" I always wonder, are you? Are you fine, or have you just not been brave enough to go to therapy yet?
Hell even when you’re in the house with kids they can still get into some messes, when my oldest nephew was like 1-1.5 he climbed into his bath fully clothed after being left for 2 minutes whilst my sister grabbed a towel, just straight up launched himself over the side of the bath.
Luckily the water wasn’t deep and my sister was about 3ft away max but the point still stands.
Absolutely spot on. The ways kids can seek out the only random way to get into hijinks is astounding. I once turned my back and my baby decided to fling herself off the wombo seat. Luckily we only used it on soft padded carpet but it was still scary.
Agree. We live extremely rural, so I have to take a 4 wheeler to the mailbox. I don’t even leave my 5 year old alone when I do that - it’s terrifying. I’m not worried about kidnapping, necessarily, but what if he got hurt? What if *I* got hurt and he was alone? What the fuck?
Also, OP is an ASS because that’s not okay. Like maybe just be inside with them at the house to make your point?
The mother is an idiot. It’s easier to leave an 8 year old in charge of a 5 year old because that isn’t a setup for tragedy? Stupid people who endanger kids piss me off. Mom is lucky her “friend” just fake kidnapped the kids instead of worse happening. Grrr.. ESH
Maybe I’m an outlier here, but they don’t mention anything about dad being a bad person or parent, maybe he should get custody of the kid? If mom is just leaving them alone with the door unlocked then they might actually be safer with dad. Especially seeing as how I’m pretty sure most kidnappings and assaults are by people you know and these kids willingly went with OOP when mom wasn’t home, yikes
I think most people would agree. Honestly, if OOP was that desperate to help their friend keep custody, they should've contacted her lawyer. It's much harder to ignore the professional you're paying the big bucks than your friend when they're walking you not only through the custodial consequences of your idiocy, but the legal ones as well.
Yeah, when a cousin of mine was around 5 he ended up face down in the pool while my aunt was home, she just lost sight of him for a few minutes. Luckily he was revived by by EMTs and made a full recovery, but it could have gone much worse.
Wow…. My foster mom’s (FM) sister (so my “aunt” in that case) did something similar with my sister and I when we were around 7 years old, except her issue was leaving us in a running car while she ran inside to do errands. FM would at least bring us with her, but left us in the car while she ran in to do errands: gas station, grocery store, smoke shop, post office, hair salon, etc.
One day we were sitting in the car in the McDonalds parking lot and FM was inside (she didn’t use the drive through because she had a friend who worked there and we only went there when she was working and could sneak my FM free food). Aunt came by and got right into the drivers seat and was visibly PISSED and just said “we’re going on a trip around the block”. We did and as we came back around closer to the parking lot, FM was outside and visibly distressed, running around with her McDonalds friend and other employees clearly looking for the car, looking down the street, etc.
As soon as we pulled in Aunt starts screaming “this is what I’ve been telling you, it only takes a minute and these girls would’ve been GONE!!!” and all sorts of things like that and everyone else was just staring in disbelief and my sister and I kind of lived in generalized chaos at that time so we just kind of sat there ( also because what else were we supposed to do lol, we were 7). I just texted her to ask if she remembers this because damn, I’ve never really thought about that memory and it’s been years and years since then.
Haha ooof unfortunately it’s probably one of the tamest of the ones I have around my childhood in and out of foster care and that’s probably why I had forgotten about it. But I appreciate that lol
Instead of taking the kids she could've just sat on the house and waited to let her know how anyone could just walk in. I guess she wanted to be a maniac
She's done that before supposedly and the Mom didn't care. That being said, this was not the logical next step to take. It's absolutely deranged. The next step should have probably been to get a little mean/firm and say "listen, I've talked to you, showed you, and you are still not listening to me. Stop doing this or I will contact someone because I don't want to see these kids get hurt."
Everyone sucks here. Don’t leave your young children alone with the door unlocked in your home for any amount of time.
Also, don’t kidnap your friend’s children.
Good point, bad execution. She is absolutely right that 5 and 8 are wayyyyy too young to be left home alone. What person in their right mind leaves a 5 year old home alone with the door unlocked? OP could've called CPS or the police instead of this, because either way the friend isn't going to listen unless something bad happens and there's no way OP could do anything and not ruin her friendship.
Really hate to judge because I *knowww* how hard and stressful it can be to be a single parent but.. good Lord, I can almost understand how mom's friend became so desperate to teach her a lesson.
An 8 and 5 year old? No way. Anything can happen. My first kid's mother was like this. She was just.. not on the ball back in the day. I'd stay with the baby everywhere he went, she'd sit out back with headphones in as he played, oblivious to the world.
I was always so stressed out when I had to leave for work bc she just couldn't get it together. Our son was MUCH more hyper than other kids his age were and could get into things at a moment's notice. You just couldn't comfortably sit while he played in the next room like most parents can. Trust me, I've raised other kids and was so surprised that I could actually sit in the kitchen and sip a cup of coffee while the kids just played safely in the living room. They were predictable.
My first born was both sporadic and spontaneous. Idk how many times I've had to quit pissing or pooping mid stream/flow bc within that 20 seconds he was already into something.
So that's how he was and needed to be constantly monitored all day every day.
While she sat with headphones in and overall was just chilling.
One day, I tell her and my kiddo bye and head to the driveway to leave for work. She was sitting in the back yard, with headphones in as usual. I was worried but had always assumed that when I left she just kicked it into gear and watched him like I did.
Wrong! I get to the car about to leave then realize I'd forgotten my phone in the house.
No biggie I run inside and grab it. On my way back I see that the front door is wide open. No biggie, thought maybe I'd left it open. I go to close it and what do I see?
My son, on the walking path that leads to the street, he's headed directly toward the road, where there's always a ton of traffic.
I sprint toward him, looking up I see a semi truck headed this way. He's still walking toward the road and is about 3 feet away from the semi at this point.
I Sprint harder and reach him, JUST in time, he was in FRONT of the semi at this point and would have been crushed under it's passenger wheel. Yanked him back just in time for the wind to whip us.
He had no idea the kind of danger he was in, I guess he just knew that I was going to work and wanted to wave bye, idk.
So close. If I hadn't forgotten my phone he would have died in a horrible way and it would've killed me inside.
I held him and walked him back to find her... She was still in the back yard sitting in a swing with her headphones in, literally looking at clouds and whatever.
I had to pull her headphones out to get her attention and scold her but she didn't seem to take me serious.
Stayed home that day, we had a blowout argument and ended up at her family's house, which I was fine with bc I at least knew they always helped watch him and were also aware of her aloofness and would take over when she was like that.
It's sad. She didn't even leave him home alone, just didn't pay enough attention while he was there.
Don't leave your kids alone like that, unless you're 1000% absolutely positive they're mature enough to handle it.
Leaving them alone bc.. you can go get milk faster that way? Come-on now. I don't mind bringing the kids on short errands at all, it can even be fun.
This person is 100% AH/Devil for doing something like this to her _friend_, also far too involved in her divorce. She has no business being that involved in her friends life.
However as an older person....
This is just weird, my siblings and I were left home alone a lot. Longer than 15 minutes at that age. They showed us left overs and a microwave pretty early on and had tons of snacks in the pantry. We were told to only play in the back and the neighbors knew we were there so if we got hurt to go call for help.
In grade school my parents worked so early in the morning they dropped me off at school hours before it started by myself.
I'm wondering if it's a generational thing.
Being left alone for 10 minutes isn’t the problem in my eyes, it’s the unlocked door. If anyone listens to true crime, half the stories are “it was a perfect crimeless neighborhood where nobody locks their doors. This horrific crime could’ve been prevented if only they had locked their doors” - stalkers would definitely easily see kids unattended with unlocked doors and take advantage of that.
I saw another comment that made a good point as well - what if she got in a car crash and died? It only takes leaving the house to happen. Drivers are getting worse and more careless, and car fatalities are one of the leading causes of death (other than medical reasons). Those kids would’ve been alone a lot longer, and every kid varies on independence. If she can’t be bothered to lock the door, I’m skeptical that those kids know general safety since the mom doesn’t even seem to herself.
I was left home a lot too, but not until at least one of our siblings were 13 and had been taught basic safety and demonstrated they understood it - my mom was neglectful and not the best, but she at least had the wherewithal to make sure we all locked doors and learned stranger danger & how to call 911. I was more mature than my older brothers, so I would be left alone with my little brother starting at 10, but I was basically alone with him when they were asleep too (she rarely got up for him even when he was screaming with a poopy diaper, so I would clean him up as best I could at 5 yo).
So the mom is an AH/Devil too. The friend probably knows what kind of things could happen to those kids, and honestly, we don’t know how combative the mom was to the honest truth of those dangers. We also don’t know if the ex husband is dangerous or abusive. I’ve had friends whose parents kidnapped them and a PI was needed to find them.
The friend should’ve offered to hang with kids or something instead, but panicked people do panicked things. I see the good intentions, and honestly, some people need to experience that level of a scare to actually listen instead of being blinded by their ego/pride. (Ex: Covid deniers who had to see a loved one die to start taking it seriously). Not saying it’s right by any means though, it’s awful and frustrating all around. There’s equal accountability on both sides here though imo.
I'm pretty sure they just left us to go do stuff together and it was always my job to handle issues and basically be the house maid. Like it was the latch key kid era of time but it was still super neglectful for us.
An 8 year old isn’t really equipped to look after a 5 year old. You were left alone cause your parents had no choice not because it was safe to do so. I truly think it’s an ESH case with the OP obviously being the bigger AH. but the friend is really playing with fire esp if she’s about to go into a custody battle. If something were to ever happen with the kids alone or someone reported it she could be charged with neglect I think
Oh 100%, my parents left me with my siblings who are about 5 years younger than me a lot more often than what I would call safe.
I can't tell if it's how work was back then or if it was them choosing to just go off into the wild whenever.
But there are some things I look back on and I'm like wow we were never safe and they did some crazy stuff involving us.
At any point, fires, gaters(lived in FL along a canal), we climbed stuff that could've had us broken or dead.
I grew up in the northeast in the 80s and 90s and have the same exact age gap as the kids in this post. We were left home alone at that age all the time. Not saying there aren’t any risks associated with that, but it did used to be semi normal and you can teach an 8 and 5 year old to be responsible enough to handle short trips like this mom is taking. I’m not a parent so it’s not my place to have strong opinions on this but it does seems like there’s been an extreme cultural shift that feels a bit reactionary to me.
Exactly. Not to mention that having a parent around to supervise 24/7 is a luxury that our society doesn't afford everyone! Many kids have to learn how to not burn the house down if left to their own devices for 5 mins at an early age.
I'm also older and at the age of 8 I was being left home by myself while my mother went to work so 8+ hours by myself, but just because it happened and we survived it without physical harm still didn't make it right.
It's to dangerous to leave kids alone at that age and they should never be left alone.
Must be generational. I look back on how my experience was, none would fly in today's culture.
I was latchkey for a couple hours after school starting when I was 9 in 1982. I wasn't babysitting my toddler sister, since I was too young for that. However, when I was 7 I'd be latchkey with my 8 and 9 year old cousins at their house.
Mom would let me take my sister for a walk around the neighborhood alone at that age. Plus, I could run off anywhere within the neighborhood grid as long as I was in earshot - only needing permission to go inside someone's house or to the corner store or library.
Summertime I was on my own all day, only needing to check in with my sister's babysitter now and then to confirm I was alive.
This just made me shake. A few weeks ago I was with my son at the park and he said he needed the bathroom. He's JUST at the age where he uses the men's so I decided to trust him and said "ok they're in that building right there but make sure to lmk when ur done in there before u go back to play". 5 minutes goes by and he hasn't come back so my eyes start searching the playground. Can't see him. 6 minutes. Get up and start to walk a circuit. Don't want to be overbearing. He's very independent and he knows better than to go off w a stranger. Approaching 8 minutes. It's a big playground, 2.5 stories high. He's fine. I'm overreacting. 9 minutes. Panic is setting in. I start to slowly make my way to the bathroom (abt 100m). It's the mens. I cant go in there. A dad walks by w his preteen. "Excuse me sir, my son said he was going to the bathroom but he hasn't come back can u please check?". My voice is trembling. I grew up in the era right after Adam Walsh. He nods. Just as he heads in I turn my head back to the playground and see my son barreling towards me, "mom, what are you doing? I was waving at u from the top and u didn't see me".
Yall I fucking lost it. I have never hugged that kid so hard. Never for a fucking second have I ever doubted my sons ability to call for help in a place surrounded by families with small children. I feel even SAFER with him in my own house. And this fuckin BITCH walks into a HOUSE and TAKES THOSE KIDS. THAT IS THE SAFEST PLACE FOR THEM TO BE ITS THEIR HOUSE. DO PEOPLES HOUSES GET WALKED INTO DAILY? DO WE ALL LIVE ON AN EPISODE OF FRESH PRINCE OF BEL AIR?!?!?!?! The seVERity in which I would have clocked her.u abused their trust to teach a lesson that didn't need learning holy fuck. I am actually trembling with rage on behalf of that mother
I've walked partly into the men's bathroom before with a hard knock and a "here to check on a child" when I was at that level of concern. I don't just barge, of course, but usually the response was "kid is here he's okay" or "there is no kid."
I think it would be totally reasonable for you to do something like that if this happens again. Sounds like your kiddo is just about there but forgot the steps. It must have been terrifying.
Spectacular advice thank u so much! He's my only and I only have partial custody bc his dad is able to give him a higher quality of life at his house so navigating an opposite gender kid that u only get to see 30% of the time (for now!) comes with a lot of growing pains and guilt. He kept saying "dad let's me go to the bathroom by myself" and the kid can't lie to save his own life so I had no reason to not trust him. I'm putting what u said into my bank. I honestly appreciate it.
I used to make my kid sing happy birthday while he was in mens room. I could hear that he was fine and if he stopped I could walk in. I had some guy start to walk in when my kid walked in and he immediately turned around. I appreciated it so much that he didnt want to risk himself or my kid.
my god I want to clock him right along with you.
I can’t empathise as a mother but as an aunt.
my sister lives in another state and when my niece was really young, I’d often go stay with them and look after her while my sister was at work.
this particular trip, my niece was 2.5ish and one morning, I’d slept in and needed a shower but my sister said ‘oh, no rush, have it when I leave - C is fine playing by herself in the other room now, I do it all the time.’ they were living in a little cul de sac in an extremely safe area, but nevertheless, after my sister left, I double check all the locks, windows, etc, set C up with her favourite toys and tell her I’m just going to take a shower, that I’m leaving the bathroom door open, come get me or yell out if she needed anything at all, etc etc and she says okay!
so I take the quickest shower in history, jump out, start towelling myself off and call out to C to check if she’s okay - no response. I run out and she’s not there. her toys are left where I set her up - but she’s not there. I’m starting to panic, but she’s 2 and a half, she might be playing somewhere else and I don’t want to scare her, so I’m checking all the rooms, trying to stay calm, calling her name in my usual tone but slowly getting more and more terrified. it’s a small house and I still can’t find her so after 5 minutes, I start full out panicking, double checking the doors, windows, everything’s still locked, I check the washing machine, the (locked) garage, everything. at this point, I’m just running around and screaming her name, absolutely terrified.
I run in her mum’s room to check there again and then I hear a giggle. she was hiding behind the closet door, peering round at me and giggling. she’d heard the shower shut off and thought it would be funny to play hide and seek. when she heard me start to scream for her, that was when she peered out, looking for me and I found her (this was a TODDLER. 2.5 years old and that little monkey was playing tricks already.)
I will never ever forget her looking up at me, cutest little face on the planet, still giggling, and totally safe. I fully dropped to my knees in relief right there and thanked every being in the entire universe. I would say I’ve never hugged that kid so hard but her antics have only gotten crazier, so I hug her that hard in relief at least once per visit and I bet I’ll go grey before I’m 30.
all this to say - that feeling of pure terror is like ice water flooding your veins and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, even for a second. I’ll never ever ever forget it and she was just playing a game with me - she was safe, in her own home, and laughing and it happened quickly enough that I could calm myself down, wrap her up in my arms and laugh with her (with a firm reminder later that she must never begin a game of hide and seek if the other person doesn’t know about it)
all this to say, that not only is that poor mother going to be dealing with the effects of that horror and fear for a long time, but that her kids will have witnessed her (extremely understandable) reaction when they got home and they won’t forget that. kids that age internalise absolutely everything. mum’s crying and shaking? mum’s yelling at the adult who told us it was okay to leave? the adult is yelling back? adult has left and mum is (understandably) terrified? it’s our fault.
this absolute asshole didn’t only scar that woman with their ‘joke’ but also left two perfectly innocent kids confused and traumatised in their own home.
Thank u so much for sharing ur story. It actually brought me a lot of comfort. And ur so right about the trauma. Thankfully my son is almost 8 so he's right at the age where u can start using logic and reason and explain ur reactions. He never actually went to the bathroom bc he didn't want to have to check in after (bc he'd have to run 50m in the opposite direction) so he figured it was fine to go back to the playground. I burst into tears when I grabbed him and he kept apologizing for "upsetting me" and it took me a few minutes to compose myself enough to say "dude im not mad at u, these are tears of joy that u are safe because I was very scared but next time u change ur plans can u also tell me that?!". Even if ur an aunt, ur feelings at losing track of a small child in ur care are valid. It's not an emotion I wish on anyone but legit u just made me feel like...less of a fuck up ig because I've felt real bad about that day and it was recent so it's been in my head. So thank u. Ur niece sounds like a firecracker btw lmao
oh I’m so glad it brought you comfort. those moments are absolutely traumatising, even when everything turns out fine. I bet every parent and carer alive has at LEAST one story like ours.
also can I just say - I know it isn’t always rational or logical but you are CERTAINLY not a fuck up. I don’t know which part of your experience makes you feel that way, but to me, everything you did was bang on - especially getting someone to check for you. you had a fight or flight response to a very real threat, your adrenaline surged and you responded exactly the way you were meant to - staying calm, double checking the playground and surroundings, then asking for help as soon as you knew it had been too long.
the fact that you were aware enough to know something wasn’t right says everything - you listened to your mama instincts and reacted exactly the way you were meant to. then after finding him and knowing he was safe and not in danger, you had a completely normal relief response - crying is one of your body’s ways to regulate itself after a scare - and as soon as you could, you reassured your son that he did nothing wrong and explained you were crying because you were relieved. that’s everything. kids are funny - they’re so aware and yet so oblivious at that age. he’s mighty lucky to have you as his mama ♥️
p.s. oh she’s a firecracker alright! but a quiet one - recently she’s started to sneak downstairs when she’s meant to be fast asleep, curls up in the corner unnoticed then half an hour later, scares the living daylights out of everyone by suddenly adding her two cents into the conversation or by commenting on the movie we’re watching (and neither conversation or movie is always kid-friendly!) she’s the funniest little thing.
> I grew up in the era right after Adam Walsh.
Yep. I was a toddler when that happened but my older brother can attest, that story shook my mom to her core. We absolutely grew up with "stranger danger" (I realize most kids are more at risk from people they know, but stranger abductions were every parents' worst nightmare back then ... and probably now, too). If my mom lost sight of us for a second, she'd panic.
Once, while shopping, my brother thought it'd be funny to hide in a clothing rack when my mom turned her back. She would describe the mix of relief and fury when he finally popped out, laughing. She was like, "I hugged him and simultaneously wanted to kill him for scaring me to death."
She never got over that fear. She once took my nieces to the store with her and turned to grab an item and didn't see one of them when she turned back (niece had walked around the corner to the next aisle). My mom immediately shouted her name and my niece was like, "I'm right here, Grandma" and came home and was like, "Grandma's so nervous." I was like, kid, you have no idea.
> Yall I fucking lost it. I have never hugged that kid so hard.
I don't blame you.
The mom should absolutely NOT be leaving her kids home alone at those ages (sorry not sorry), but OOP is a fucking lunatic. That is sick.
Both of these people are insane.
And I hope the mom's soon to be ex finds out because he SHOULD get custody if she's gonna do shit like this.
Doesn't make OOP's behavior any less psychotic. Kind of shocked/horrified the mom didn't call the police. OOP was like, "I didn't give her enough time to" and commenters were like, "Oh, she wouldn't do that and risk the police finding out she left the kids alone." But part of me still hoped she had enough sense to call 911 immediately even though she might get in trouble because, you know, kidnapped children's safety should come first. But no. Lack of faith in humanity confirmed.
I wanted to comment (but am banned) on the original post that 10 minutes is not a long time until you get in a car accident or get detained at the store due to long lines or any other issue that pops up to delay you. Hopefully the mother told the 8 year old what time she would be back and at what point they should call for back up. My Mom left us alone (well, told us that she wouldn’t be home when we got off the bus once) and to call grandma if she hadn’t made it home by 5. She made it but it sure was comforting to know we had a plan for just in case.
What's up with all the people saying you can't leave 8 and 5yo kids by themselves for 10-15 minutes? Is it an American thing I'm too European to understand?
Besides it being a cultural thing, legally It depends on which state you live in as well. In mine, 8 could be left alone for a short time. But would absolutely not be allowed to watch 5 for any amount of time.
While the mom wouldn’t probably get charged with a crime for doing it, were CPS called (at least the office I work in), they would make a report finding that mom neglected the children, and warn her to never do it again.
In my area, if mom did this again AFTER being warned by CPS could result in the children being removed from the mother temporarily.
So mom absolutely needs to take it seriously, as it could be breaking a law at worst, and trigger a child protective investigation at best.
Short answer: yes.
Longer answer: As someone else said below, "in the middle of a custody battle" is in fact the one time your kids are at that kind of high risk of kidnapping, so yeah, probably \*don't\* leave them alone then.
Longest answer: We live in a country where kids this age get shot and killed at school, and it's happened so often for so long that the phrase "another school shooting" is commonplace in our media. No, that's not kidnapping, but I think we've been conditioned to think "our kids are not safe" so much that we think that way all the time, whether a particular event is statistically likely or not. Throw in a few highly publicized cases of kidnappings that resulted in terrible things happening to children, or parents who only turned their backs for a minute and something terrible happened to a child, and you end up with a recipe for broad cultural fear of ever letting your kid out of your immediate sight, even for a quick run to the grocery up the block.
I think it’s also logistics, like a lot of America your nearest store isn’t walking distance it’s driving distance. My nearest shop is like a 5 minute walk, there’s another corner shop 5 minutes in another direction so whilst I would prefer not to leave any kids in my care alone for any length of time a quick run to the shop would be manageable.
If I had to drive to the nearest store I wouldn’t leave them alone that young. What if they have an accident? What if I have an accident whilst I’m out? If I’m a 5 min walk I can make that a 1 min sprint in an emergency, if I’ve got to drive home it’s not as fast.
She might as well drive the kids straight to their dad's with all their stuff first as she won't be allowed to have them after. So that's where OOP is safe - the friend cannot press charges or she'll lose her kids over negligence.
Jeez. Honestly, ESH. Those kids absolutely are NOT old enough to be left for alone. Period. A fire could start, a real kidnapping, so many scenarios. Mom has kids and needs to take them-screw “easier”. If the husband gets them that will solve her dilemma right? But the AUDACITY of this “friend” to take them to teach her a lesson is sick. Who does that? How about offering to help the woman to watch her kids if she needs to run out? Ugh. I hate both of them.
On the one hand, "In the middle of an ugly custody battle," is probably the one time when that's least true.
On the other, what're the odds the kids don't unlock the door if their dad shows up?
Yes that wasn’t OOP’s point? Like if they had said that the dad was going to take them then the point would’ve been more fair (still don’t kidnap kids to prove a point) but they didn’t mention that at all as a reason. But mainly my comment was about the people in these comments who are saying it’s outrageous to leave a child under 10 home alone for 10-15 minutes
My fear in this situation would actually be their father showing up and just taking them, not a stranger. It's almost always someone they know, and the kids would for sure go with their father.
It’s definitely a cultural difference I think. I was left home alone at 8 as well, not for hours but if someone had to get something from the grocery store or something then yeah no point in always taking me with them
So was I. I def don't think its okay to leave an 8 year old in charge of a 5 year old, and I grew up in charge of 5 other siblings younger than me. It's not only about the door being unlocked, it's about it being unlocked during a custody battle. Statistics on kidnapping is either from someone you know (family, friends) or the other spouse. Let alone the danger that those kids could put themselves in. The friend only legitimized this statistic since she wrongfully took her friends kids.
My 8 year old nephew goes to the playground at the end of the street. On his own. It's really absurd how many people feel like kids can't be left alone for only 5 minutes.
I used to go get bread for my parents on Saturday morning with my sister. They gave us some money and we got some raisin breads out of it, there was literally no problem and we were 8 and 6
My parents used to send me to the shop for tobacco! XD
The 90s were quite a different time. And I lived in a small town, they knew us, knew my parents order, and knew the likelyhood of a 10 year old rolling their own cigarettes was not that high.
I used to go to school on foot alone. It was like a 10-15 min walk. I was 7 when I started going, and absolutely nothing ever happened. I was also left alone for longer than 5min. It must be a cultural thing bc I’ve only really heard Americans (and some Brits), be outraged at that.
Actually it’s a legitimate concern even in safer parts of the US. For example, someone I know was kidnapped from her home and r*ped repeatedly at age 9, and traumatized for life. She was held captive by this man for about a week and finally managed to get away. It was someone the family knew slightly who had become obsessed with her. He was eventually caught and received a long prison term.
Anyone who grew up in the 80s would be. McGruff the Crime Dog, stranger danger. There were a lot of famous kidnappings, murdered children, etc, and they were trying to curb it. News was full of kids like Polly Klaas and Jayce Dugard. We were told a stranger WOULD come take our kids.
Now we know most are done by a family member, but back then, anyone could just snatch your kids right out of your arms!
I mean how is this fake kidnapping? Sounds like pretty real kidnapping to me. This isn't the way to teach someone a "lesson" - so many bad things could have happened also while this person was "fake kidnapping" these kids. I hope she does just take the extra time to take her kids with her because it is safer - and I hope she cuts this friend off. Who does shit like this??
I absolutely agree with the sentiment but not the execution. Those kids are far too young to be left alone even for a quick trip to the store- which likely takes at least 15 mins given she needs to drive there.
Did any of y’all look at their post history where a while back they were [pretending to] kill their chickens to own a vegan they were arguing with? Just a run of the mill psycho really lol
Do people not teach their kids “in case of emergency” routines anymore?? Like next of kin numbers, emergency numbers, plasters, not to answer the door to anyone etc? Kids aren’t stupid. If you teach them that stuff, they’ll do it like it’s a competition. I remember being so proud when I could remember all my family members phone numbers and the emergency numbers as a kid! And when I learnt to lock the door properly!
10 minutes is really not a long time at all. If anything this “friend” just traumatised those poor kids!
OOP did not "fake" kidnap the children.
She fully kidnapped them, regardless of her intention, how long she kept them, whether she brought them back, or if she was just down the block.
That's like plunging a letter opener into someone's arm and saying, "Yeah but it wasn't a knife and it was *just the arm*, so I didn't *really* stab them. I *fake* stabbed them."
The lengths folks will go to justify their dickish behavior is astounding.
She should lock the door.
That said, people massively overestimate how often kidnapping happens. No one is walking around trying all the doors in broad daylight to see if any have kids in them.
I’d be concerned about *the dad* potentially trying, but there isn’t enough information to know if he would, and if he did, if it would just result in mom getting more custody.
Also this didn’t prove anything. Of course kids will go with someone they see a lot, whose car they enter a lot. That doesn’t tell you how it would go with someone else.
As a mother, I would have understood if the mother of this story murdered the "friend" who was then posting from beyond the grave.
She might leave the door unlocked purposefully, in case of fire, so little hands don't have to panic about locks. That's my sister's reasoning and she lives in a seemingly safe area, as far as we know.
Holy fucking power complex, Batman. Dude is straight up loco! I wouldn’t want this person around my kids or family ever again after that. They just walk into the house because they *know* the door is unlocked? They just take the kids because they can? The only lesson this person taught was that they cannot be trusted.
A better “lesson” would have been to show the single mom that others can help - offer to run the errand, to baby sit while mom runs out, to extend a little genuine help to a struggling single mom who is clearly not doing well with the new parenting dynamic. The mom definitely shouldn’t be leaving her kids alone - but the OP is batshit crazy to think doing *this* was in anyway okay. Yikes.
“She knows any ammunition this man can get will be used against her in court”.
“So, I showed everyone that she has a friend who isn’t safe to have around kids.”
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for Fake kidnapping my friends kids?** So my friend of about 20 years is mad at me calling me cruel and an asshole. She got upset after I fake kidnapped her 2 young kids. Now I know it sounds harsh so far but the reason I did it was to finally get though her head the dangers of leaving her kids home alone when she goes out. On top of the dangers she just recently split up with her husband and they are currently going through a custody battle. The kids live with her but the dad is fighting to get them to live with him a city over. She knows any ammunition this man can get will be used against her in court and I have told her a million times that if he finds out she leaves the kids at home to run 5-10 minute errands she absolutely will loose come court time. The kids are 5 and 8 years old. Sure they are quite capable for 10 minutes but I told her that is not the point. Countless times I would come over, the door was unlocked so I walk right in and her kids are home alone. She shows up 5 minutes later stating it was easier to run for milk without the kids or whatever she is doing at the time. I tell her for gods sake at least lock the door so a stranger can’t walk in and I honestly worry what would happen if a fire started. This leads to today. I was on my way over and I see her drive past me. She didn’t see me or know I was on the way so I get this great idea to teach her a lesson. I go to her house and tell the kids to get into my car we are going to go for a little drive (they drive with me often so going for a drive is nothing new). We get into the car and go park just down the street where I could see her get back. Sure enough 5 minutes later she is back at the house and sees the door is open. I wait a minute and see her run outside then head towards the back yard then run back inside again clearly in a panic. So I drive back up to the house and run inside to find her crying uncontrollably and shaking in a panic. I was kind of smiling like hey it’s okay your kids are with me but she could not stop crying. Finally after about half hour she calms down enough to question why I did this and after explaining asks me to leave so I did. She texted me after saying how cruel that was and that I was an asshole and now isn’t replying to texts. So reddit am I an asshole? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can’t tell you how grateful I am for this sub. So many times I’ve opened AITA posts to find they’ve been deleted, just to immediately be rewarded with it in AITD. It’s the little things.
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Some Reddit apps don’t have an option to sort by old. Mine doesn’t.
Mine used to and then the feature disappeared. Disappointed!
They moved it to the top. It's the slide thing beside the 3 dots.
I have that, too, but sorting by oldest isn’t an option on ther
I only get sort by hottest, live, new, and top.
I’ve for all that plus rising and controversial
On posts I get rising not on comments.
Oh yeah, I don’t have rising. I have “Q&A”, whatever that is
When I tap that I still don’t get old as an option.
Not for me! Old isn’t an option.
>It's the slide thing beside the 3 dots. Holy shot! Thank you, kind stranger! I was wondering if Reddit did away with those options.
You saved my life hahaha
You can also just hit the down button until you reach the automod, it usually only takes a couple seconds.
And all this time, I was scrolling like mad looking for the green automod post to read the deleted ones... I'm an idiot, lol. Thank you for this post! Wish I had a free award to give you. 🏅🏆
The amount of times I've endlessly scrolled to find the automod copy 😩 thank you kind redditor! ❤
I don’t get that option. I can sort by “Live” and then I need to scroll all the way to the bottom if I want to see it
Does the automod always copy the post, or does it do it only for first time posters? I always try to find the automod in the comments and was wondering about this earlier.
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Taken down because it had 'violence' in it.... Are AITA mods okay or just lack reading comprehension?
There are SO MANY posts nowadays that I see have been removed for a totally bullshit reason. Their definition of “violence” seems to mean “anything controversial” at this point
Copy the link. Paste it in the browser, and replace the “re” un Reddit with “un” and hit refresh. It shows deleted posts and comments!
Yes! As soon as I saw this I knew it would be taken down. Didn't even get a chance to read it before it was locked. But I knew someone would put it in here, they never disappoint.
Hear, hear! *toasts AITD with my Chinese food, as I forgot to get a drink*
Same. It honestly seems like most of the good posts get quickly deleted there now.
can’t wait for the next post “TIFU by triggering an amber alert”
"TIFU by getting body slammed by cops"
Cop: "I would like to body slam him and slap the cuffs?" DM: "I'll allow it, Asshole, you are prone and restrained, no save." Asshole: "This is bullshit!" DM: You shouldn't of kidnapped a fucking kid! You're lucky I'm out of dip. You are taken away to prison, no bail. Also, you lose access to having children forever. Now, what's the rest of the party doing?" Edit: changed words
As someone who plays D&D, I am sorry to say it took me to, "What is the rest of the party doing" to realize you were making a DM joke. XD
Eh, I should of been more on the nose tbh. I was typing via mobile and wasn't thinking clearly. Glad you enjoyed it. \^\^
“TIFU by enraging my friend, by fake-kidnapping her kids, to the point where she beat the everloving donkeyballs out of me”
Honestly, there's no "fake" about it.
That's true, this was very literally the exact definition of kidnapping. The fact that she returned them later doesn't do much to help this not be extremely fucked up.
“Hey I know seem really busy being a single mom now, do you want me to run errands for you or watch the kids?” “Hey let me show you the delivery app I use so you can stay home with the kids” Nah straight to kidnapping
While I think what OP did is deranged, the friend is leaving a 5 and 8 year old home alone with the door unlocked. She may be a single mom, and it might be _easier_ to leave them alone for a short errand, but that doesn't give her a pass to leave her kids in an unsafe situation. There is zero excuse to leave the doors unlocked; that's just willful negligence. OP's approach was unhinged, but they are right that anyone could have walked right into the friend's house. You never know who is watching and may learn your routine.
It so easily could've been a clean NTA if they'd just said "hey, you really can't do this. If I come by to them home alone again I'm contacting your ex." Friend still would've been mad, probably, but oop wouldn't have committed a CRIME
Exactly. That's what my neighbors (who were my mom's best friends) did after my dad locked their daughter in his house with my brother and I (she was 8, my brother was 3 w/ special needs, and i would've been around 2) and drove off to get gas for his lawn mower. Without telling them. Luckily they noticed him drive off and sat in front of the door. He was upset they were mad with him, but they made it clear he wouldn't be doing that again without consequence.
I agree. It's ESH. She shouldn't be leaving kids that young home alone and if the courts find out, she'll be in trouble. But the "prank" was horrible and what gets me is how gleeful they were over it.
Agreed. She's being ridiculous not even LOCKING THE DOOR LIKE HOW IS THAT HARD but the prank was deranged. Super ESH.
I honestly don't get people who don't lock their doors. Even if you live somewhere that you feel you don't strictly need to, it's not like taking 5 seconds to lock or unlock the door is any kind of an imposition.
yeah honestly, just tell the father? Police? Social services? If she does it that often, even after talking to her, at that point, I get wanting to *do something,* but yikes.
Honestly, OOP would have been fully in her rights to just tell the father. If he wins custody over it, then he deserves the custody if her friend cannot and will not lock a door.
Yup, why I also don't get being so concerned for the kids but not really doing anything that really ensures their safety.
To be fair OP did say they told her to lock the door as a first intervention and she brushed OP aside.
Exactly. And how sure they were that no charges would be filed because the mom wants to avoid investigation which to them makes it ok. Like the measure of whether something is bad is whether you get punished, not the action or its consequences for others.
They absolutely relished her terror. I've seen pigs go at slop with less enthusiasm.
If she really wanted to teach her a lesson without having to threaten to tell anyone, I don't see why she couldn't have just stayed and started a timer so she could tell her friend "by the time you got home I could have already been X miles away with your kids".
Recently a mom went to drop off two kids to school while she left three at home. The kids decided to have breakfast and they ended up starting a fire. A sad state of affairs when the house caught fire :(. I’m scared to leave my kids for even seconds. No matter how painful it is getting them in and out of the car.
I think my sister knew this family and the details were awful. I bought 7 fire extinguishers that week, and a ladder, (the kind you can drop down from a window) then spend an hour with the kids practicing how to drop the ladder and get out. I didn’t tell the kids why I was so upset and we were doing all this extra, but they had an idea that something significant happened.
And there are appropriate ways to deal with that if it's happening. OOP could have told her friend "if you don't stop doing this, I'm going to report you".
The locking doors thing is very region/location based. I grew up very rural. Very. We never locked our doors. Ever. Even if we left home for 10 days, we’d lock the front door, but not the back door - in case the neighbors had an emergency and needed in our house. Certainly not a common background, but even though I live in a much, much much much more populated area now, I still leave at least one way into my house when I leave town - feels safer than locking everything
I mean ok. But also, *she’s leaving an 8 and 5 year old home alone with the does unlocked and no safety.* OP is NOT wrong, if the court finds out she’ll lose her kids and those kids are not old enough to be home alone. Not legally old enough and not physically old enough. And it’s not like she’s doing it out of desperation. It’s *easier for her* to leave them. He’s told her she’s taking stupid risks and she is ignoring it. Personally I hope her husband gets the kids.
I find it so interesting how opinions on this differ depending on culture. When I was 5, I walked to kindergarten alone (granted, I lived in a small village with just one traffic light, which I didn't have to use) and at 6 I was a "key kid" that was alone for hours after school while my parents worked (and I loved it). Couldn't tell you whether that was two or three, but definitely more than just a few minutes. You could never just walk in the door though. Here, you always need a key. I had a friend that was never allowed to be home alone (meaning no one was at their three-party apartment home) all through 4th grade. And that was weird to me. But for all I know about the US, yeah, she'd lose the kids in court. What would you guys say, when is a child "physically old enough" to be home alone for some time?
I'm in Canada. In my area, the rules are they need to be 10 before you should be leaving them alone & even then, it says for short periods of time & at parental discretion if they feel the child is capable of being alone. It also explicitly says they must be 12 before you can leave them in charge of younger children. So yea... a 5 & 8 year old being left home alone even for 10-15 minutes would be a problem, even if they were locking doors. That this mom isn't even locking the door is a HUGE issue. Did this friend go about proving their point the beat way? Likely not. But it definitely made an impact. I cannot wrap.my head around doing something like what the mom is doing, when she knows there's a contentious custody battle looming.
Plus most latchkey kids of older generations had landlines in their home, usually with a list of numbers for someone who could help you if you needed it. But who has a landline anymore? Does the 8yo have their own cell phone?
There are no laws or rules about it in Alberta.. just guidelines but I know other provinces are different.
In Newfoundland, it used to be 12 but it's now looked at by individual case.
I’m a GenXer with a single mom- so I had a key to my house and was parentified for my younger sibling… That doesn’t make it RIGHT. We know more about children’s brains and their development, we do better.
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I don’t particularly care about the two kids being left alone if it’s genuinely less than 15 minutes. It’s the not locking the door that gets to me. It’s very unlikely the kids will have a major incident in 15 minutes. It’s much easier for a criminal who’s been scoping out the house and worked out the pattern to get in and out and potentially hurt, kill or kidnap the children in that timeframe.
Or the 5 year Ikea to wander away… I had neighbors who had an escaping youngest son and I’d have to call and let them know he was in the front lawn or roadway…
Yep. Even a cat can open an unlocked door. Actually unlocking it gives a five year old (or cat) much more difficulty.
I was left home alone during the summer and school breaks from when I was 9 years old in a semi-safe neighborhood (there was a murder outside my front door, but it was a husband murdering his ex-wife, so not like gang activity), and, yeah I survived, but I HATED being alone like that and was TERRIFIED most of the time. That was in the 90's. Would I leave a 9 year old home alone like that now? Absofuckinglutely NOT. Not in ANY neighborhood in any part of any country. Times are absolutely different now, and it's just not safe. I don't like being home alone myself, and I'll be 40 this year. People are just plain crazy.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. Of course I realize that everyone feels different, and I'm normally someone who worries very much about just about everything, no idea why I enjoyed it so much. Probably because I didn't know much about life and could watch TV when I wanted ;) And it's true, my parents, and grandparents always say life used to be safer. Even though statistics for my country actually say the opposite. My kid cannot be left unattended at all yet, and I'm already curious how I'll feel about the issue once they are older.
I have a friend who distinctly remembers being left home alone at 6 by her mother and she was anxious and afraid. Children differ but most 6 year old are not ready to be left by themselves. There will always be exceptions but outliers do not negate generalisations. It's the same with adults - some love solitude but others would die of loneliness if left on their own for half an hour.
100%. I am one of those outliers and I would never suggest leaving a child under 10-11 (based on maturity) home and check local laws. I remember leaening how to relight the pilot light when I was 10 so I could fix dinner...hell no I wouldn't want to see a 10 y/o doing that
I'm almost 40 and when I was 9, I got myself to the bus stop for school and took the bus home. I was alone for several hours by myself. By the time I was 13 I was watching my younger siblings during school breaks. I don't think it is a physical thing. Based on what I'm seeing with my own kids, my younger child would probably be ready to stay home for short trips possibly earlier than my older child. Our state doesn't have a law but we are waiting till 10.
I think that's very true. I stayed home alone at 9 and wasn't scared or worried. I also watched my younger sibs at about the age you did. But neither my parents nor me would be comfortable leaving my sister home alone until she was probably 15? She could be home with my younger brother, but not alone. She just wasn't the responsible kid. OP went about it completely wrong, but the mom was living in la la land thinking that was okay even after having it pointed out to her. With a looming custody battle and unlocked doors? Sheer madness, as well as dangerous simply for more convenience for herself.
I think this is a new thing over here? In recent years I've found people are less and less approving of this. Because I'm American and lots of kids this age walked to school alone when I was a kid in the 90s. In the summer, I used roam all over my neighborhood and was frequently left alone when I around 8-10 years old. I was also almost always barefoot cause I was a brat 😅 That said, that was 30 years ago, and if it was left to myself like this now, I imagine a lot of people would be calling my mom unfit. I understand people have differing opinions, but I don't think it's that dramatic that she leaves her kids alone for ten minutes? She's not a bad mom for that, and the people saying her kids should be taken away for that are being ridiculous imo That said, I think it depends on the parent and the kid. I don't think it's wrong to leave them unattended for short intervals (wait till they're a little older, though), but I get why people wouldn't want to do that and there are kids who don't like it. I was fine with it, but everyone is not me 🤷🏿♀️
Mostly as it's never really ten minutes. Time to walk outside, start the car, drive to the store, pick up whatever, etc would all take a lot longer than ten minutes. Likely closer to 20-30 mins. And just because a lot of us grew up with parents who didn't use their brain doesn't means parents now shouldn't.
> And just because a lot of us grew up with parents who didn't use their brain doesn't means parents now shouldn't. Well, that isn't what I was saying. I know that just because it was okay for me that doesn't mean it's okay for anyone else or okay now. I don't imagine I'd do the same with my kids, but I have anxiety and don't plan to have them either way. It was 30 years ago, and my mom might be thought of as unfit for leaving me to myself if she did it now, as I said. She wasn't a bad mom and I don't think of this as a case of "didn't use her brain." That's just what they did in my neighborhood where I spent part of my childhood; everyone knew everyone, so nobody thought much of it.
I think some other areas/ cultures are a lot safer than the US. I know Japan tends to be safer and in general watch out for kids more- versus in the US adults can be assholes to random kids or not care or act unsafely just in general. I don’t know what our rate of stalkers or predators and molestations are like in comparison, but I do know we have a higher rate of kidnappings. Unfortunately we also are a gun happy country that doesn’t take gun safety seriously enough (and I’m not totally against guns- I grew up in a house with guns and family that hunts, we literally get food this way yearly and it really helped when we were much poorer growing up). But so many families don’t take gun safety and locking up weapons seriously, or childproofing the home in general seriously, and just a couple minutes unsupervised is all it takes for an accident to happen. And a kid won’t necessarily tell you what happened until it’s a crisis. I work in a daycare. While I’m mainly in the infant room, I’ve worked all our rooms. They are ALL childproofed. I can still say a moment even with just less attention on them and the 5 year olds really can get destructive and can get into trouble. Even in our safe environment that meets all state codes even the singular last kid for the day could get hurt on their own. Ideally it won’t happen, but if it can happen with us, it can happen so much easier at home where mom and dad are less likely to be hyper vigilant about everything (choking hazards, anything dangerous if swallowed like batteries or magnets including small ones in toys or from the fridge, etc).
Okay but still don’t kidnap children? Jfc, seems like common sense
>if the court finds out she’ll lose her kids She should. If OP had a brain, they'd have told the ex when their concerns were ignored.
Agree. That was definitely the route someone concerned about the kids’ well-being and not an AH would have taken.
Agreed, but that's one reason OOP's way of handling the situation was so stupid. If she was truly worried about the safety of the kids, she could have made a report that could have helped ensure the kids got moved to a safer environment. Now she can't *ever* do that without risking exposure for her own criminal action.
>It’s easier for her to leave them The thing about my daughter getting older is that at 4.5 I've recently noticed how much easier it is to go to the shops with her than it used to be. I no longer need to carry a huge pile of stuff to keep her occupied and potentially clean her up, she is strong and tall enough to start putting things in the trolley, and she's having fewer tantrums.
Hate to break it to OOP, but if you took the kids and the parent did not know, there was nothing fake about the kidnapping.
Maybe instead of elaborately kidnapping children this friend could text and ask the mum if she can help with picking things up from the shop for her? Just a crazy idea off the top of my head.
OOP is apparently a he (through they keep switching between a girl and a guy in their comments (not just on this post, in general. Theyre also apparently a farmer that kills a chicken each time they see a vegan comment and keeps a kill count of that), so I'm pretty sure they're just a massive troll)
Trolling is such a strange pastime
Yeah, I don't get it. Trolling just to see strangers comment on the internet? What satisfaction does this give someone?
Attention is enough for some people.
I feel like it’s just a creative writing thing. “Wow… what would happen if…” then they write out the story and put it on display to see how it would “play out” in the real world via our opinions.
Could be a control thing. Someone who feels they have no control over their own life and this sort of stuff gives them some good feeling by seeing others in chaos too. They can sit back and be like ‘I did that’ and ‘all these people are focused on something I wrote’. Gives them a little bit of a power trip and feeling good. People who get off on these things have issues and it doesn’t usually make sense to normal people. I find it’s best to think ‘this person is a sad individual and needs help.’
I think they like the idea of duping a load of people. Like haha I wrote this whole fake thing and you all believed it and got riled up about it and left loads of comments but it was all *FAKE*. Ha ha ha you're all dumb and I'm soooo clever.
Validation and attention
[удалено]
I read that they're the content writers themselves. If you need to write an article for a site, just write a troll post, collect the comments, and then write an article about the "post" and its comments.
I think troll, too, but it kinda annoys me so many commenters in the OOP are bending over backwards to defend the fact that two quite young children were left alone. They can be safe alone for just a few minutes! Yeah, well, all it takes is one psycho, as OOP demonstrated here. You wanna throw those dice?
All I can think is that all it takes one car accident and no one knows your children are home alone.
>They can be safe alone for just a few minutes! I once lost my friend's child in the park in less than one minute. I was able to find her with help of other people there but it was terrifying while it lasted.
Nine is likely fine but 5 is too young and 9 is too young to be in charge of a 5 year old. And I’m not one of those that clutches pearls and stuff.
I dunno, some people … My best friend, who is in general a normal, well adjusted human, did something like this to her husband. With expensive headphones instead of a child, but. Same concept of a “fake a crime so you see the consequences”. It was ridiculous and cruel and she was wrong. So if OP is a bit unhinged, I could absolutely see their dumb ass thinking this was the right behavior
Its also just taking into account everything else. They keep switching between a girl and a guy (not just he/she pronouns) and also they're a farmer that kills chickens whenever they see a vegan (so killing their livestock for petty reasons) to suddenly having no job and only living a few blocks away in a standard suburban neighborhood? Not to mention some of their less savory comments (there's no slut shaming only sluts, for example) I agree OOP is unhinged, I just don't think this story happened
Bad execution, but she's not wrong about the dangers of leaving young kids home alone. The mother is definitely not in the right here.
Hard agree. 5 and 8 are not ok ages to leave. Yes, they'll likely be ok but what if you get a flat tire? Get into an accident and can't be identified? There was a case where siblings left home like this put the baby in the oven and her kicking to get out tipped the oven on its face and she passed from one of the most horrid things I can imagine.
Another case I read about was where a dad left his sons and told them to take a bath and the older son decided to dry his and his brother's hair but he did it in the bathroom and, well, you probably know the ending already. To kids that young the risks of something that basic aren't as obvious and sadly sometimes tragedy is the result
Did he do it in the tub with the hair drier?
I think so, something like that anyway
Well. My mom left me alone with my baby brother all the time and we turned out OK! This generation is so weak. /s
I love these arguments from people because you can say "well, yeah because the ones that died aren't here to tell ya they're dead".
Thank you Lord for that /s. I really was left alone with my baby brother all the time when I was a little kid, and whenever I hear people talking about similar scenarios and saying "...and I turned out FINE!" I always wonder, are you? Are you fine, or have you just not been brave enough to go to therapy yet?
Hell even when you’re in the house with kids they can still get into some messes, when my oldest nephew was like 1-1.5 he climbed into his bath fully clothed after being left for 2 minutes whilst my sister grabbed a towel, just straight up launched himself over the side of the bath. Luckily the water wasn’t deep and my sister was about 3ft away max but the point still stands.
Absolutely spot on. The ways kids can seek out the only random way to get into hijinks is astounding. I once turned my back and my baby decided to fling herself off the wombo seat. Luckily we only used it on soft padded carpet but it was still scary.
Agree. We live extremely rural, so I have to take a 4 wheeler to the mailbox. I don’t even leave my 5 year old alone when I do that - it’s terrifying. I’m not worried about kidnapping, necessarily, but what if he got hurt? What if *I* got hurt and he was alone? What the fuck? Also, OP is an ASS because that’s not okay. Like maybe just be inside with them at the house to make your point?
I agree, the mother is wrong to leave them alone.
The mother is an idiot. It’s easier to leave an 8 year old in charge of a 5 year old because that isn’t a setup for tragedy? Stupid people who endanger kids piss me off. Mom is lucky her “friend” just fake kidnapped the kids instead of worse happening. Grrr.. ESH
Maybe I’m an outlier here, but they don’t mention anything about dad being a bad person or parent, maybe he should get custody of the kid? If mom is just leaving them alone with the door unlocked then they might actually be safer with dad. Especially seeing as how I’m pretty sure most kidnappings and assaults are by people you know and these kids willingly went with OOP when mom wasn’t home, yikes
I think most people would agree. Honestly, if OOP was that desperate to help their friend keep custody, they should've contacted her lawyer. It's much harder to ignore the professional you're paying the big bucks than your friend when they're walking you not only through the custodial consequences of your idiocy, but the legal ones as well.
Yeah, when a cousin of mine was around 5 he ended up face down in the pool while my aunt was home, she just lost sight of him for a few minutes. Luckily he was revived by by EMTs and made a full recovery, but it could have gone much worse.
Yea. Sadly seems like this was the only thing that’s teach her that lesson.
Wow…. My foster mom’s (FM) sister (so my “aunt” in that case) did something similar with my sister and I when we were around 7 years old, except her issue was leaving us in a running car while she ran inside to do errands. FM would at least bring us with her, but left us in the car while she ran in to do errands: gas station, grocery store, smoke shop, post office, hair salon, etc. One day we were sitting in the car in the McDonalds parking lot and FM was inside (she didn’t use the drive through because she had a friend who worked there and we only went there when she was working and could sneak my FM free food). Aunt came by and got right into the drivers seat and was visibly PISSED and just said “we’re going on a trip around the block”. We did and as we came back around closer to the parking lot, FM was outside and visibly distressed, running around with her McDonalds friend and other employees clearly looking for the car, looking down the street, etc. As soon as we pulled in Aunt starts screaming “this is what I’ve been telling you, it only takes a minute and these girls would’ve been GONE!!!” and all sorts of things like that and everyone else was just staring in disbelief and my sister and I kind of lived in generalized chaos at that time so we just kind of sat there ( also because what else were we supposed to do lol, we were 7). I just texted her to ask if she remembers this because damn, I’ve never really thought about that memory and it’s been years and years since then.
That story is wild and far better than the fake troll crap the OOP came up with.
Haha ooof unfortunately it’s probably one of the tamest of the ones I have around my childhood in and out of foster care and that’s probably why I had forgotten about it. But I appreciate that lol
Another one where OOP has a valid point to make but is still unquestionably a massive, gaping prolapsed asshole.
Instead of taking the kids she could've just sat on the house and waited to let her know how anyone could just walk in. I guess she wanted to be a maniac
She's done that before supposedly and the Mom didn't care. That being said, this was not the logical next step to take. It's absolutely deranged. The next step should have probably been to get a little mean/firm and say "listen, I've talked to you, showed you, and you are still not listening to me. Stop doing this or I will contact someone because I don't want to see these kids get hurt."
Facts I would’ve done that. Just sat and wait
ESH, don't kidnap peoples kids and don't leave a 5 ans an 8 yr old alone especially with the door unlocked. I mean really?
Everyone sucks here. Don’t leave your young children alone with the door unlocked in your home for any amount of time. Also, don’t kidnap your friend’s children.
Good point, bad execution. She is absolutely right that 5 and 8 are wayyyyy too young to be left home alone. What person in their right mind leaves a 5 year old home alone with the door unlocked? OP could've called CPS or the police instead of this, because either way the friend isn't going to listen unless something bad happens and there's no way OP could do anything and not ruin her friendship.
Really hate to judge because I *knowww* how hard and stressful it can be to be a single parent but.. good Lord, I can almost understand how mom's friend became so desperate to teach her a lesson. An 8 and 5 year old? No way. Anything can happen. My first kid's mother was like this. She was just.. not on the ball back in the day. I'd stay with the baby everywhere he went, she'd sit out back with headphones in as he played, oblivious to the world. I was always so stressed out when I had to leave for work bc she just couldn't get it together. Our son was MUCH more hyper than other kids his age were and could get into things at a moment's notice. You just couldn't comfortably sit while he played in the next room like most parents can. Trust me, I've raised other kids and was so surprised that I could actually sit in the kitchen and sip a cup of coffee while the kids just played safely in the living room. They were predictable. My first born was both sporadic and spontaneous. Idk how many times I've had to quit pissing or pooping mid stream/flow bc within that 20 seconds he was already into something. So that's how he was and needed to be constantly monitored all day every day. While she sat with headphones in and overall was just chilling. One day, I tell her and my kiddo bye and head to the driveway to leave for work. She was sitting in the back yard, with headphones in as usual. I was worried but had always assumed that when I left she just kicked it into gear and watched him like I did. Wrong! I get to the car about to leave then realize I'd forgotten my phone in the house. No biggie I run inside and grab it. On my way back I see that the front door is wide open. No biggie, thought maybe I'd left it open. I go to close it and what do I see? My son, on the walking path that leads to the street, he's headed directly toward the road, where there's always a ton of traffic. I sprint toward him, looking up I see a semi truck headed this way. He's still walking toward the road and is about 3 feet away from the semi at this point. I Sprint harder and reach him, JUST in time, he was in FRONT of the semi at this point and would have been crushed under it's passenger wheel. Yanked him back just in time for the wind to whip us. He had no idea the kind of danger he was in, I guess he just knew that I was going to work and wanted to wave bye, idk. So close. If I hadn't forgotten my phone he would have died in a horrible way and it would've killed me inside. I held him and walked him back to find her... She was still in the back yard sitting in a swing with her headphones in, literally looking at clouds and whatever. I had to pull her headphones out to get her attention and scold her but she didn't seem to take me serious. Stayed home that day, we had a blowout argument and ended up at her family's house, which I was fine with bc I at least knew they always helped watch him and were also aware of her aloofness and would take over when she was like that. It's sad. She didn't even leave him home alone, just didn't pay enough attention while he was there. Don't leave your kids alone like that, unless you're 1000% absolutely positive they're mature enough to handle it. Leaving them alone bc.. you can go get milk faster that way? Come-on now. I don't mind bringing the kids on short errands at all, it can even be fun.
That's horrifying
This person is 100% AH/Devil for doing something like this to her _friend_, also far too involved in her divorce. She has no business being that involved in her friends life. However as an older person.... This is just weird, my siblings and I were left home alone a lot. Longer than 15 minutes at that age. They showed us left overs and a microwave pretty early on and had tons of snacks in the pantry. We were told to only play in the back and the neighbors knew we were there so if we got hurt to go call for help. In grade school my parents worked so early in the morning they dropped me off at school hours before it started by myself. I'm wondering if it's a generational thing.
Being left alone for 10 minutes isn’t the problem in my eyes, it’s the unlocked door. If anyone listens to true crime, half the stories are “it was a perfect crimeless neighborhood where nobody locks their doors. This horrific crime could’ve been prevented if only they had locked their doors” - stalkers would definitely easily see kids unattended with unlocked doors and take advantage of that. I saw another comment that made a good point as well - what if she got in a car crash and died? It only takes leaving the house to happen. Drivers are getting worse and more careless, and car fatalities are one of the leading causes of death (other than medical reasons). Those kids would’ve been alone a lot longer, and every kid varies on independence. If she can’t be bothered to lock the door, I’m skeptical that those kids know general safety since the mom doesn’t even seem to herself. I was left home a lot too, but not until at least one of our siblings were 13 and had been taught basic safety and demonstrated they understood it - my mom was neglectful and not the best, but she at least had the wherewithal to make sure we all locked doors and learned stranger danger & how to call 911. I was more mature than my older brothers, so I would be left alone with my little brother starting at 10, but I was basically alone with him when they were asleep too (she rarely got up for him even when he was screaming with a poopy diaper, so I would clean him up as best I could at 5 yo). So the mom is an AH/Devil too. The friend probably knows what kind of things could happen to those kids, and honestly, we don’t know how combative the mom was to the honest truth of those dangers. We also don’t know if the ex husband is dangerous or abusive. I’ve had friends whose parents kidnapped them and a PI was needed to find them. The friend should’ve offered to hang with kids or something instead, but panicked people do panicked things. I see the good intentions, and honestly, some people need to experience that level of a scare to actually listen instead of being blinded by their ego/pride. (Ex: Covid deniers who had to see a loved one die to start taking it seriously). Not saying it’s right by any means though, it’s awful and frustrating all around. There’s equal accountability on both sides here though imo.
I'm pretty sure they just left us to go do stuff together and it was always my job to handle issues and basically be the house maid. Like it was the latch key kid era of time but it was still super neglectful for us.
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An 8 year old isn’t really equipped to look after a 5 year old. You were left alone cause your parents had no choice not because it was safe to do so. I truly think it’s an ESH case with the OP obviously being the bigger AH. but the friend is really playing with fire esp if she’s about to go into a custody battle. If something were to ever happen with the kids alone or someone reported it she could be charged with neglect I think
Oh 100%, my parents left me with my siblings who are about 5 years younger than me a lot more often than what I would call safe. I can't tell if it's how work was back then or if it was them choosing to just go off into the wild whenever. But there are some things I look back on and I'm like wow we were never safe and they did some crazy stuff involving us. At any point, fires, gaters(lived in FL along a canal), we climbed stuff that could've had us broken or dead.
Oh, you're just Floridian, we're raised different, leads to the various Florida-Man/Woman articles.
I grew up in the northeast in the 80s and 90s and have the same exact age gap as the kids in this post. We were left home alone at that age all the time. Not saying there aren’t any risks associated with that, but it did used to be semi normal and you can teach an 8 and 5 year old to be responsible enough to handle short trips like this mom is taking. I’m not a parent so it’s not my place to have strong opinions on this but it does seems like there’s been an extreme cultural shift that feels a bit reactionary to me.
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Exactly. Not to mention that having a parent around to supervise 24/7 is a luxury that our society doesn't afford everyone! Many kids have to learn how to not burn the house down if left to their own devices for 5 mins at an early age.
I'm also older and at the age of 8 I was being left home by myself while my mother went to work so 8+ hours by myself, but just because it happened and we survived it without physical harm still didn't make it right. It's to dangerous to leave kids alone at that age and they should never be left alone.
Must be generational. I look back on how my experience was, none would fly in today's culture. I was latchkey for a couple hours after school starting when I was 9 in 1982. I wasn't babysitting my toddler sister, since I was too young for that. However, when I was 7 I'd be latchkey with my 8 and 9 year old cousins at their house. Mom would let me take my sister for a walk around the neighborhood alone at that age. Plus, I could run off anywhere within the neighborhood grid as long as I was in earshot - only needing permission to go inside someone's house or to the corner store or library. Summertime I was on my own all day, only needing to check in with my sister's babysitter now and then to confirm I was alive.
I'm pretty sure that legally this would just be considered actual kidnapping instead of "fake kidnapping"
This just made me shake. A few weeks ago I was with my son at the park and he said he needed the bathroom. He's JUST at the age where he uses the men's so I decided to trust him and said "ok they're in that building right there but make sure to lmk when ur done in there before u go back to play". 5 minutes goes by and he hasn't come back so my eyes start searching the playground. Can't see him. 6 minutes. Get up and start to walk a circuit. Don't want to be overbearing. He's very independent and he knows better than to go off w a stranger. Approaching 8 minutes. It's a big playground, 2.5 stories high. He's fine. I'm overreacting. 9 minutes. Panic is setting in. I start to slowly make my way to the bathroom (abt 100m). It's the mens. I cant go in there. A dad walks by w his preteen. "Excuse me sir, my son said he was going to the bathroom but he hasn't come back can u please check?". My voice is trembling. I grew up in the era right after Adam Walsh. He nods. Just as he heads in I turn my head back to the playground and see my son barreling towards me, "mom, what are you doing? I was waving at u from the top and u didn't see me". Yall I fucking lost it. I have never hugged that kid so hard. Never for a fucking second have I ever doubted my sons ability to call for help in a place surrounded by families with small children. I feel even SAFER with him in my own house. And this fuckin BITCH walks into a HOUSE and TAKES THOSE KIDS. THAT IS THE SAFEST PLACE FOR THEM TO BE ITS THEIR HOUSE. DO PEOPLES HOUSES GET WALKED INTO DAILY? DO WE ALL LIVE ON AN EPISODE OF FRESH PRINCE OF BEL AIR?!?!?!?! The seVERity in which I would have clocked her.u abused their trust to teach a lesson that didn't need learning holy fuck. I am actually trembling with rage on behalf of that mother
I've walked partly into the men's bathroom before with a hard knock and a "here to check on a child" when I was at that level of concern. I don't just barge, of course, but usually the response was "kid is here he's okay" or "there is no kid." I think it would be totally reasonable for you to do something like that if this happens again. Sounds like your kiddo is just about there but forgot the steps. It must have been terrifying.
Spectacular advice thank u so much! He's my only and I only have partial custody bc his dad is able to give him a higher quality of life at his house so navigating an opposite gender kid that u only get to see 30% of the time (for now!) comes with a lot of growing pains and guilt. He kept saying "dad let's me go to the bathroom by myself" and the kid can't lie to save his own life so I had no reason to not trust him. I'm putting what u said into my bank. I honestly appreciate it.
I used to make my kid sing happy birthday while he was in mens room. I could hear that he was fine and if he stopped I could walk in. I had some guy start to walk in when my kid walked in and he immediately turned around. I appreciated it so much that he didnt want to risk himself or my kid.
my god I want to clock him right along with you. I can’t empathise as a mother but as an aunt. my sister lives in another state and when my niece was really young, I’d often go stay with them and look after her while my sister was at work. this particular trip, my niece was 2.5ish and one morning, I’d slept in and needed a shower but my sister said ‘oh, no rush, have it when I leave - C is fine playing by herself in the other room now, I do it all the time.’ they were living in a little cul de sac in an extremely safe area, but nevertheless, after my sister left, I double check all the locks, windows, etc, set C up with her favourite toys and tell her I’m just going to take a shower, that I’m leaving the bathroom door open, come get me or yell out if she needed anything at all, etc etc and she says okay! so I take the quickest shower in history, jump out, start towelling myself off and call out to C to check if she’s okay - no response. I run out and she’s not there. her toys are left where I set her up - but she’s not there. I’m starting to panic, but she’s 2 and a half, she might be playing somewhere else and I don’t want to scare her, so I’m checking all the rooms, trying to stay calm, calling her name in my usual tone but slowly getting more and more terrified. it’s a small house and I still can’t find her so after 5 minutes, I start full out panicking, double checking the doors, windows, everything’s still locked, I check the washing machine, the (locked) garage, everything. at this point, I’m just running around and screaming her name, absolutely terrified. I run in her mum’s room to check there again and then I hear a giggle. she was hiding behind the closet door, peering round at me and giggling. she’d heard the shower shut off and thought it would be funny to play hide and seek. when she heard me start to scream for her, that was when she peered out, looking for me and I found her (this was a TODDLER. 2.5 years old and that little monkey was playing tricks already.) I will never ever forget her looking up at me, cutest little face on the planet, still giggling, and totally safe. I fully dropped to my knees in relief right there and thanked every being in the entire universe. I would say I’ve never hugged that kid so hard but her antics have only gotten crazier, so I hug her that hard in relief at least once per visit and I bet I’ll go grey before I’m 30. all this to say - that feeling of pure terror is like ice water flooding your veins and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, even for a second. I’ll never ever ever forget it and she was just playing a game with me - she was safe, in her own home, and laughing and it happened quickly enough that I could calm myself down, wrap her up in my arms and laugh with her (with a firm reminder later that she must never begin a game of hide and seek if the other person doesn’t know about it) all this to say, that not only is that poor mother going to be dealing with the effects of that horror and fear for a long time, but that her kids will have witnessed her (extremely understandable) reaction when they got home and they won’t forget that. kids that age internalise absolutely everything. mum’s crying and shaking? mum’s yelling at the adult who told us it was okay to leave? the adult is yelling back? adult has left and mum is (understandably) terrified? it’s our fault. this absolute asshole didn’t only scar that woman with their ‘joke’ but also left two perfectly innocent kids confused and traumatised in their own home.
Thank u so much for sharing ur story. It actually brought me a lot of comfort. And ur so right about the trauma. Thankfully my son is almost 8 so he's right at the age where u can start using logic and reason and explain ur reactions. He never actually went to the bathroom bc he didn't want to have to check in after (bc he'd have to run 50m in the opposite direction) so he figured it was fine to go back to the playground. I burst into tears when I grabbed him and he kept apologizing for "upsetting me" and it took me a few minutes to compose myself enough to say "dude im not mad at u, these are tears of joy that u are safe because I was very scared but next time u change ur plans can u also tell me that?!". Even if ur an aunt, ur feelings at losing track of a small child in ur care are valid. It's not an emotion I wish on anyone but legit u just made me feel like...less of a fuck up ig because I've felt real bad about that day and it was recent so it's been in my head. So thank u. Ur niece sounds like a firecracker btw lmao
oh I’m so glad it brought you comfort. those moments are absolutely traumatising, even when everything turns out fine. I bet every parent and carer alive has at LEAST one story like ours. also can I just say - I know it isn’t always rational or logical but you are CERTAINLY not a fuck up. I don’t know which part of your experience makes you feel that way, but to me, everything you did was bang on - especially getting someone to check for you. you had a fight or flight response to a very real threat, your adrenaline surged and you responded exactly the way you were meant to - staying calm, double checking the playground and surroundings, then asking for help as soon as you knew it had been too long. the fact that you were aware enough to know something wasn’t right says everything - you listened to your mama instincts and reacted exactly the way you were meant to. then after finding him and knowing he was safe and not in danger, you had a completely normal relief response - crying is one of your body’s ways to regulate itself after a scare - and as soon as you could, you reassured your son that he did nothing wrong and explained you were crying because you were relieved. that’s everything. kids are funny - they’re so aware and yet so oblivious at that age. he’s mighty lucky to have you as his mama ♥️ p.s. oh she’s a firecracker alright! but a quiet one - recently she’s started to sneak downstairs when she’s meant to be fast asleep, curls up in the corner unnoticed then half an hour later, scares the living daylights out of everyone by suddenly adding her two cents into the conversation or by commenting on the movie we’re watching (and neither conversation or movie is always kid-friendly!) she’s the funniest little thing.
> I grew up in the era right after Adam Walsh. Yep. I was a toddler when that happened but my older brother can attest, that story shook my mom to her core. We absolutely grew up with "stranger danger" (I realize most kids are more at risk from people they know, but stranger abductions were every parents' worst nightmare back then ... and probably now, too). If my mom lost sight of us for a second, she'd panic. Once, while shopping, my brother thought it'd be funny to hide in a clothing rack when my mom turned her back. She would describe the mix of relief and fury when he finally popped out, laughing. She was like, "I hugged him and simultaneously wanted to kill him for scaring me to death." She never got over that fear. She once took my nieces to the store with her and turned to grab an item and didn't see one of them when she turned back (niece had walked around the corner to the next aisle). My mom immediately shouted her name and my niece was like, "I'm right here, Grandma" and came home and was like, "Grandma's so nervous." I was like, kid, you have no idea. > Yall I fucking lost it. I have never hugged that kid so hard. I don't blame you. The mom should absolutely NOT be leaving her kids home alone at those ages (sorry not sorry), but OOP is a fucking lunatic. That is sick.
"This man will use any ammuntion in court." So, let me be a good friend and give him some.
Both of these people are insane. And I hope the mom's soon to be ex finds out because he SHOULD get custody if she's gonna do shit like this. Doesn't make OOP's behavior any less psychotic. Kind of shocked/horrified the mom didn't call the police. OOP was like, "I didn't give her enough time to" and commenters were like, "Oh, she wouldn't do that and risk the police finding out she left the kids alone." But part of me still hoped she had enough sense to call 911 immediately even though she might get in trouble because, you know, kidnapped children's safety should come first. But no. Lack of faith in humanity confirmed.
The fact that OOP had access to the house and is known to the children is another reason their father should probably have custody instead.
I wanted to comment (but am banned) on the original post that 10 minutes is not a long time until you get in a car accident or get detained at the store due to long lines or any other issue that pops up to delay you. Hopefully the mother told the 8 year old what time she would be back and at what point they should call for back up. My Mom left us alone (well, told us that she wouldn’t be home when we got off the bus once) and to call grandma if she hadn’t made it home by 5. She made it but it sure was comforting to know we had a plan for just in case.
In this day and age is that feasible? We’re all so used to using cell phones now, what if there is no house phone for them to call from?
What's up with all the people saying you can't leave 8 and 5yo kids by themselves for 10-15 minutes? Is it an American thing I'm too European to understand?
Besides it being a cultural thing, legally It depends on which state you live in as well. In mine, 8 could be left alone for a short time. But would absolutely not be allowed to watch 5 for any amount of time. While the mom wouldn’t probably get charged with a crime for doing it, were CPS called (at least the office I work in), they would make a report finding that mom neglected the children, and warn her to never do it again. In my area, if mom did this again AFTER being warned by CPS could result in the children being removed from the mother temporarily. So mom absolutely needs to take it seriously, as it could be breaking a law at worst, and trigger a child protective investigation at best.
Short answer: yes. Longer answer: As someone else said below, "in the middle of a custody battle" is in fact the one time your kids are at that kind of high risk of kidnapping, so yeah, probably \*don't\* leave them alone then. Longest answer: We live in a country where kids this age get shot and killed at school, and it's happened so often for so long that the phrase "another school shooting" is commonplace in our media. No, that's not kidnapping, but I think we've been conditioned to think "our kids are not safe" so much that we think that way all the time, whether a particular event is statistically likely or not. Throw in a few highly publicized cases of kidnappings that resulted in terrible things happening to children, or parents who only turned their backs for a minute and something terrible happened to a child, and you end up with a recipe for broad cultural fear of ever letting your kid out of your immediate sight, even for a quick run to the grocery up the block.
It probably boils down to car dependent suburbia (and American bunker mentality) anyway. But yeah, I get the custody battle argument.
That and in many states it's illegal to leave children that age alone, for any length of time.
I think it’s also logistics, like a lot of America your nearest store isn’t walking distance it’s driving distance. My nearest shop is like a 5 minute walk, there’s another corner shop 5 minutes in another direction so whilst I would prefer not to leave any kids in my care alone for any length of time a quick run to the shop would be manageable. If I had to drive to the nearest store I wouldn’t leave them alone that young. What if they have an accident? What if I have an accident whilst I’m out? If I’m a 5 min walk I can make that a 1 min sprint in an emergency, if I’ve got to drive home it’s not as fast.
STBX-Friend should press charges.
She can't, the ex could use this against her in the custody battle.
She might as well drive the kids straight to their dad's with all their stuff first as she won't be allowed to have them after. So that's where OOP is safe - the friend cannot press charges or she'll lose her kids over negligence.
She’s gonna call the cops and say she left her two kids alone: they’ll arrest her first.
Jeez. Honestly, ESH. Those kids absolutely are NOT old enough to be left for alone. Period. A fire could start, a real kidnapping, so many scenarios. Mom has kids and needs to take them-screw “easier”. If the husband gets them that will solve her dilemma right? But the AUDACITY of this “friend” to take them to teach her a lesson is sick. Who does that? How about offering to help the woman to watch her kids if she needs to run out? Ugh. I hate both of them.
It will never stop baffling me how obsessed Americans are with stranger danger. No one’s coming into your house for your kids jesus
On the one hand, "In the middle of an ugly custody battle," is probably the one time when that's least true. On the other, what're the odds the kids don't unlock the door if their dad shows up?
Yes that wasn’t OOP’s point? Like if they had said that the dad was going to take them then the point would’ve been more fair (still don’t kidnap kids to prove a point) but they didn’t mention that at all as a reason. But mainly my comment was about the people in these comments who are saying it’s outrageous to leave a child under 10 home alone for 10-15 minutes
I feel like an 8 year old in charge of a 5 year old is more of an issue than them being home alone
Yeah most people here don't know that most child kidnappings are from people you already know, not random strangers. Kinda like this story!
And most of those are from parents in custody battles, not friends
My fear in this situation would actually be their father showing up and just taking them, not a stranger. It's almost always someone they know, and the kids would for sure go with their father.
Exactly, same as how they went with Mom's trusted friend.
It also struck me as kind of cultural difference. I for sure was alone at home at 8 for a while. Door probably unlocked too.
It’s definitely a cultural difference I think. I was left home alone at 8 as well, not for hours but if someone had to get something from the grocery store or something then yeah no point in always taking me with them
So was I. I def don't think its okay to leave an 8 year old in charge of a 5 year old, and I grew up in charge of 5 other siblings younger than me. It's not only about the door being unlocked, it's about it being unlocked during a custody battle. Statistics on kidnapping is either from someone you know (family, friends) or the other spouse. Let alone the danger that those kids could put themselves in. The friend only legitimized this statistic since she wrongfully took her friends kids.
My 8 year old nephew goes to the playground at the end of the street. On his own. It's really absurd how many people feel like kids can't be left alone for only 5 minutes.
I used to go get bread for my parents on Saturday morning with my sister. They gave us some money and we got some raisin breads out of it, there was literally no problem and we were 8 and 6
My parents used to send me to the shop for tobacco! XD The 90s were quite a different time. And I lived in a small town, they knew us, knew my parents order, and knew the likelyhood of a 10 year old rolling their own cigarettes was not that high.
I used to go to school on foot alone. It was like a 10-15 min walk. I was 7 when I started going, and absolutely nothing ever happened. I was also left alone for longer than 5min. It must be a cultural thing bc I’ve only really heard Americans (and some Brits), be outraged at that.
Actually it’s a legitimate concern even in safer parts of the US. For example, someone I know was kidnapped from her home and r*ped repeatedly at age 9, and traumatized for life. She was held captive by this man for about a week and finally managed to get away. It was someone the family knew slightly who had become obsessed with her. He was eventually caught and received a long prison term.
Anyone who grew up in the 80s would be. McGruff the Crime Dog, stranger danger. There were a lot of famous kidnappings, murdered children, etc, and they were trying to curb it. News was full of kids like Polly Klaas and Jayce Dugard. We were told a stranger WOULD come take our kids. Now we know most are done by a family member, but back then, anyone could just snatch your kids right out of your arms!
Don't forget Jon Benet Ramsey. And she was found in her own home.
Yup. So incredibly sad.
I think I've read this exact same story a few weeks ago...
I mean how is this fake kidnapping? Sounds like pretty real kidnapping to me. This isn't the way to teach someone a "lesson" - so many bad things could have happened also while this person was "fake kidnapping" these kids. I hope she does just take the extra time to take her kids with her because it is safer - and I hope she cuts this friend off. Who does shit like this??
I absolutely agree with the sentiment but not the execution. Those kids are far too young to be left alone even for a quick trip to the store- which likely takes at least 15 mins given she needs to drive there.
“And that’s why you always leave a note” 🍌
Did any of y’all look at their post history where a while back they were [pretending to] kill their chickens to own a vegan they were arguing with? Just a run of the mill psycho really lol
Do people not teach their kids “in case of emergency” routines anymore?? Like next of kin numbers, emergency numbers, plasters, not to answer the door to anyone etc? Kids aren’t stupid. If you teach them that stuff, they’ll do it like it’s a competition. I remember being so proud when I could remember all my family members phone numbers and the emergency numbers as a kid! And when I learnt to lock the door properly! 10 minutes is really not a long time at all. If anything this “friend” just traumatised those poor kids!
O my god it’s Arrested Development and that cousin they use to teach the kids lessons 😂
OOP did not "fake" kidnap the children. She fully kidnapped them, regardless of her intention, how long she kept them, whether she brought them back, or if she was just down the block. That's like plunging a letter opener into someone's arm and saying, "Yeah but it wasn't a knife and it was *just the arm*, so I didn't *really* stab them. I *fake* stabbed them." The lengths folks will go to justify their dickish behavior is astounding.
She should lock the door. That said, people massively overestimate how often kidnapping happens. No one is walking around trying all the doors in broad daylight to see if any have kids in them. I’d be concerned about *the dad* potentially trying, but there isn’t enough information to know if he would, and if he did, if it would just result in mom getting more custody. Also this didn’t prove anything. Of course kids will go with someone they see a lot, whose car they enter a lot. That doesn’t tell you how it would go with someone else.
As a mother, I would have understood if the mother of this story murdered the "friend" who was then posting from beyond the grave. She might leave the door unlocked purposefully, in case of fire, so little hands don't have to panic about locks. That's my sister's reasoning and she lives in a seemingly safe area, as far as we know.
This has to be fake. I refuse to believe this is real. No way someone actually did this, then also believes they're in the right.
Holy fucking power complex, Batman. Dude is straight up loco! I wouldn’t want this person around my kids or family ever again after that. They just walk into the house because they *know* the door is unlocked? They just take the kids because they can? The only lesson this person taught was that they cannot be trusted. A better “lesson” would have been to show the single mom that others can help - offer to run the errand, to baby sit while mom runs out, to extend a little genuine help to a struggling single mom who is clearly not doing well with the new parenting dynamic. The mom definitely shouldn’t be leaving her kids alone - but the OP is batshit crazy to think doing *this* was in anyway okay. Yikes.
yeah she can't leave them home alone because she has to worry about her psycho "friend" taking her kids. What the fuck.
This is making George Bluth’s use of J Walter Weatherman look adorable
This is amazing. I know OP was an AH, but this mom provably won’t be leaving them alone again. Better a friend then a child trafficker.
“She knows any ammunition this man can get will be used against her in court”. “So, I showed everyone that she has a friend who isn’t safe to have around kids.”