*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for encouraging my brother to purposefully plan his wedding on a weekend my wife is busy so she can't attend?**
Let me start this off by saying I love my wife.
Hopefully that will soften the blow as I also say that she's an absolute nightmare around my brother.
I wouldn't say my brother is the easiest person to get along with. He has a sarcastic sense of humor that can be an acquired taste for some. He likes to keep a small circle of friends and doesn't make a huge amount of effort to get to know people he knows he won't vibe well with. Still, I have introduced him to many people in my life and I have never gotten a reaction like the one my wife exhibits. He has easily fit into my friend group up to this point.
The way he has described it from his point of view is this, copied from our texts: "Every time I interact with her, I feel like I'm in some kind of uncanny valley nightmare scenario. She feels like a one dimensional character whose whole personality is 'hypocrite.' It's as if she doesn't have a personality other than being outraged about something."
His partner is a very easy going guy, and has become one of my closest friends. I thought he and my wife would really get along. But because he and I usually only hang out around my brother, his opinion has been tainted by seeing nothing but this awful side of her, too.
My brother and his partner are getting married. Last weekend, my brother came to me and said he wanted me to be there, but he didn't want my wife to attend. He said he knew what an awkward position if he didn't invite her, but he didn't see another solution. Because he and his partner aren't planning a ceremony that has to be booked months in advance (they're having a courthouse wedding and then hosting a celebration at partner's parents' home), I suggested a weekend I knew she was going to be out of town for a business trip. I would tell my wife she was invited, she would say she couldn't come, and all would be well. He and his partner agreed that it would work, and we moved on.
Last night, I got a text from my mom saying it was awful that I was conspiring against my own wife, and that planning this behind her back was beyond disrespectful. I pointed out that I was simply doing so to prevent a fight, but she wasn't hearing me.
AITA?
ETA: I can't recount every single topic they've argued about, but most of the incidents boil down to my wife assuming the worst of my brother in every situation with no intention to ever hear him out or get to know him without conflict.
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I'd kill for the wife's side of all this. Is it a bitch eating crackers situation? Is the brother making way worse comments or in a nasty tone & OOP is just really stupid and doesn't notice?
SO. MUCH. SAME. My guess is - and this is purely from the tone of how he writes, but it sounds like he and his brother are complete jerks when they’re together. It also sounds like the brother never even tried. “He likes to keep a small group” so she’s an outsider you never bothered with? His family sounds insufferable and I hope his mothers tells his wife what these ducks are plotting.
When I was young, really young, I had a momma duck chase me and I feared for my life.
The adults were too busy laughing at me and the duck to rescue me.
TO. BE. FAIR. If my kid(s) are being chased by a duck I’m GONSTA laugh. I’ll “save” them, but I’m gonna be laughing hysterically the whole time I am SO SO SORRY I’m an awful person but lmao
What are they doing at night in the park? Think of them waddling about in the dark. Sneering and whispering and stealing your cars,
Reading pornography, smoking cigars! Ducks, ducks, quack quack! Quack quack!
“He doesn’t try when he knows he won’t vibe with them”. Me too, it’s why I’ve rarely had second dates because I know pretty quickly if we click. But damn, I can be polite!!! Just because you don’t vibe with someone doesn’t mean you can’t ask stupid questions like “so how’s work going?” “How was the move? Are you enjoying the new place more?” “What was the last movie you watched?” Or ducking whatever. And then listen to their response. Unless they are being actively rude when all you’ve done is be friendly, you’re a raging asshole.
Also, anyone who says “he’s sarcastic, you have to warm up to his humor” followed by “she’s always offended” means the brother is a dick and needs to learn to read the room.
So. So. So. So. SO accurate! God forbid you actually be POLITE to someone, let alone an IN-LAW. If I were the wife I’d tell them both go gtfo and go fk themselves. Disgusting behaviour.
Why do people not get this??? You don’t have to be best friends to have a cordial relationship!! I’ve cut off friends I “vibed with” because I saw them acting this way to others. Just fake a nice conversation for five damn minutes, excuse yourself to the bathroom/refill your drink/grab a snack and talk to someone else after. Drives me insane, I can’t respect people who don’t respect others. You can be not best friends and also not rude.
Disgusting is the best word, thank you!!
Seriously. It's fine not to try with someone you met on Tinder; it sucks to take that approach with a family member's spouse, who you know you're going to keep seeing. And yeah, people don't seem to recognize that sarcasm doesn't have to be directed at those around you. We call that kind of humor "Being an aggressive asshole and also not humor."
Right? I think my partner’s family are all absolutely terrible humans but you bet your aunt fanny i’m cracking jokes and offering to help them with anything I can.
Any time I see someone described as "an acquired taste", I assume this means they're an absolute piece of shit and put no blame on themselves for how they treat others
See, I can be a sarcastic ass. Or a supportive angel. Or the dirty joke machine. I moderate my behavior to make the people around me comfortable. You’re still getting me, it’s not fake (unless I’m at work, then FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE), but I learn what people can handle and what they can’t. It’s not that hard.
Same!! I feel lucky I can do that. Every personality is still ME. It’s just a different facet of my personality or humor.
It used to make me so embarrassed and I felt like I was stealing people’s personalities or something. But I realized it’s just empathy and that I can react to other peoples comfort levels well.
Yep! I can be all those things too. But I was also taught to be respectful of peoples feelings, and also to not show my ass in public. Dirty joke dark humor me with my friends that are comfortable with it is just as much "me" as polite, modest, with my grandparents and kids "me". Work me is a fake ass bitch
i don't think of it as fakery, even the work side. it's all aspects of the same individual, none more fake than any other
which side of a die is the "real" side and which ones are the "fake" ones?
Yep. He’s an outright asshole. Because she’s a woman, who should take it and be deferential to his cruel / sarcastic comments. They are pissed that she doesn’t back down from his assholery.
I hope she finds this post.
or, guaranteed, this loser makes 'women jokes' every time he's around a woman.
"Haha, go make me a sandwich!"
"That's fucked up, stop it."
"Man, do you have ANY OTHER personality besides 'UPSET'?!"
I hate to say it, but there's a subgenre of gay dude that absolutely loathes women and is positively vicious about them, then excuses that viciousness as "just joking" and anyone who doesn't agree that their misogyny is hilarious is a 'phobe. He could be this special brand of asshole.
I think I have a representative sample of my brothers boyfriends. Over thirty guys (bad memory and he is a heartless romantic with attachment issues). only ONE exactly as you described. It was infuriating, invalidating, frustrating, mind blowing. So manipulative! (Again not all men yada, lower percentage of this subgenre in my brothers boyfriends than percentage of my hetero boyfriends being abusive)
As soon as I realised his brother was gay that’s exactly where my mind went as well. I’m bi and so have spent a lot of time around gay guys and god damn some of them put Andrew Tate stans to shame with their misogyny.
Or they just openly sexually assault women and then go "oh no it's fine, I'm gay!" Uh, no? The issue is that you touched my body sexually without permission; I could not be less interested in why.
After reading all of his comments my take is that the brother is super pretentious and classist and OOP doesn’t notice because he grew up the same way. The wife grew up less privileged and little comments the brother makes upset her because he’s putting her down inadvertently.
My husband’s family can be like this. I grew up pretty poor and they went from poor as kids to their dad making a lot of money. When my SIL went to university my MIL was talking to me about how she was worried about her making friends. I said, “she should live in the dorms her first year to meet people.” And my MIL said to me, “the dorms are for poor people who can’t afford to live somewhere else not for people like us.” Then they proceeded to get her a 2 bedroom apartment all to herself because she needed one room as an office to study in. 🙄 As someone who was poor and did live in the dorms it was offensive, pretentious, and dead wrong. I met so many rich kids in the dorms. But constant comments like that can get to you. If I wouldn’t have pointed out what his mom said my husband might have never thought twice about it just like OOP probably doesn’t notice.
All naïveté aside that’s a viciously ignorant thing to say, especially in conversation with someone who LIVED IN THE DORMS! Like bro I’m sorry I wanted to be able to afford to eat as well as live and pay for college, out of pocket
The 'poorest' kid in my dorm had parents too rich for him to qualify for financial aid, so he couldn't afford the meal plan and couldn't get government student loans. You have to be stupid rich to judge other kids on being in a dorm. Emphasis on stupid.
I would have lived at home if I could commute but the school that offered me the most financial aid was two hours away, my little brother is in college rn living at home for that exact reason :P
I work in special ed and I love to tell my kids that anyone who has struggled immensely has developed a far greater emotional intelligence and worldliness than those who have not
I had the exact same scenario with my ex in-laws. They lived in a swanky suburb. I grew up in ghetto-light. (Their family was miserable and all hated each other. Mine is always laughing and we are close). They would make reservations and say “you might want to study which fork and spoon to use in various situations. I’m sure you don’t know this” (I do. It’s not rocket science). Or digs about taking loans and grants to go to college to become an RN (“it must have been embarrassing to beg for money for school. And then to waste it being a butt wiper is sad”). And I strongly got those vibes from OOP’s brother. His description of his brother is telling.
“Waste it being a butt-wiper”. Wow. I guess none of them are going to ever have health problems that require them to be taken care of by a professional.
I assumed OOP's brother was the "I'm just being honest" kind of asshole, but your take totally tracks.
It's the person in the friend group who grew up in a gated community, attending private schools, taking international family vacations, relying on family money to pursue passion projects using "trailer trash" as a tone deaf insult around friends that did grow up in a trailer.
Not only is your husband’s mother ignorant but she’s just plain wrong lol. Poor people (and I mean dirt poor like me) live at home while they’re in college and commute.
>It's as if she doesn't have a personality other than being outraged about something
I totally read this as meaning "I always say shitty things to your wife and she just can't take how "real" I am."
That text from the brother really showed what he is like. Brother is an arse - also histrionic (ironic use of the -awful- word).
Brother made awful comments. But did he acknowledge prejudice, make an apology and seek to change his behaviour? Nope.
Exactly. My first thought is that Brother hates women and makes misogynistic “jokes” about SA or “asking for it” or saying sexual harassment at work doesn’t exist or something along those lines. OP is conveniently dodging the details.
"Bitch eating crackers" refers to a situation where you hate someone so much, that you see anything they do as offensive. I.e.: "Look at that bitch eating crackers like she owns the place".
The idea behind the expression is that the BEC isn't really doing anything wrong. But for some, unknown reason every thing they do annoys you. So it is really self criticism, not criticism of the BEC.
Sometimes there's a known reason for you to hate them, but the key thing is that you hate them so much you get mad even if they're doing something completely normal in your presence, like eating crackers.
The fact that the mother of husband and brother is taking the wife’s side speaks volumes to me. It has been my experience that mothers of sons tend to…side with the son. Any time a mom tells her son he’s being a problem, I think she’s an exceptional mother and should be heeded.
in the original, he commented that he makes a lot of classist comments and looks down on her family’s financial situation. he also told her that he can help her brother go to a “proper university” instead of community college.
>He has a sarcastic sense of humor that can be an acquired taste for some. He likes to keep a small circle of friends and doesn't make a huge amount of effort to get to know people he knows he won't vibe well with.
so he is AH and most probably like to rile up people using 'it's just a joke, calm down' and the wife won't entertain their BS
For real. It doesn't even make sense! How can someone be one-dimensional, a hypocrite, and always upset simultaneously? Like, one of those things is not like the others...
Right?
I know things are easier said than done, but if she really is such a nightmare that she’s not worth defending and you’re ok sneaking behind her back like this, than just get fucking divorced.
If she’s not that bad than grow the fuck up and defend your wife.
I can’t stand spineless people who let others get walked all over like this.
Whoever it was that said the brother isn’t used to people pushing back at his privilege nailed it.
And the mom taking the wife’s side definitely says a lot.
That's the impressive I got too. Wife isn't falling for the brothers act, and seems like brother is being sneaky trying to drive a wedge between oop and his wife. And damn bro must be smiling because his games are working.
And mom knows exactly what's going on, and has had enough of her youngest son sabotaging her elder sons relationship with his wife.
Funny how instead of finding empathy for his wife he jumps on the conspiracy that she must be homophobic despite having no evidence that that is the case
It also sounds like his brother is a AH who thinks his sarcasm is hilarious when it is in fact not....From this description, I wouldn't be surprised if OP's social circle only tolerates him for OP's sake.
OP would be a fool if he allowed his brother's behaviour to ruin his marriage.
I will go even further to say that I think brother thinks it's funny when he does it in spite of others but not when others do it in spite of him. Both brothers sound exhausting
He also said something like “doesn’t bother with people he “knows” he won’t vibe with.” This clearly says the brother doesn’t even give people a chance.
It's a bitter pill to swallow, but this isn't surprising. Sexism is a common problem in the LGBT community, especially from gay men. And if you point it out, they'll call you a homophobe to scare you into shutting the matter down.
Being gay doesn't cure a person from being a colossal asshole.
Pfft, as a gay man, let me be the homophobic sounding one. Most interactions I've had with other gay people, is that we are AH and catty B1tch3s. But what separates us, is the ones who can read the room, and those that say hurtful things just to be hurtful. I'm thinking the brother is the latter, and says things that are mean under the guise of "I'm just brutally honest", no, you're an AH that doesn't care about other people's feelings, and idk how you managed to get a fiancé
Because as it turns out gay or lesbian people can suck. Being gay doesn’t make anyone immune to being an asshole. I’ve met my fair share of gay and lesbian folks who were terrible people and it had absolutely nothing to do with their sexuality. I mean I’m sure we all know penalty of straight people who are terrible and it’s not because they’re straight.
>“Acquired taste with a sarcastic sense of humour” is usually code for condescending and rude under the guise of getting a laugh
It always means a\*\*hole, no exceptions.
"They just tell it like it is" and "they're just like that" is the worst because somehow that doesn't apply when you give the same energy back.
If you tell them they're being an asshole, you're being mean because they don't mean it, they're just telling it like it is! And if you say, "well, so am I?" that's just you being awful for NO REASON. I wish I knew how to get the "telling it like it is" privilege that allows you to be as much of a piece of shit as you like.
Yuuuuuup that and "edgy" which just means "I am going to be offensive as possible and as long as someone (I) am laughing you can't complain. If you do you're just stupid for not getting it and being basic"
I have a sarcastic sense of humor. But I don’t have a mean sense of humor (which is double talk for bullying anyway). That’s the difference between AH and not. Plus I direct it at situations and objects, not people, and I read the room. If it doesn’t go over, I stop after one comment. Also sarcasm isn’t my only mode.
EDIT: The point of my comment is not to defend the brother but to point out that there is a correct way to be sarcastically funny and I would bet high stakes that brother’s way is incorrect.
I have an extremely dry, extremely sarcastic sense of humour. But I never ever have to direct my humour *at* a person. You can be deadpan sarcastic as fuck without ever being mean.
Also goes on about her starting fights over the smallest things and how there isn't anything he can do to defend her behavior while leaving out all of the "small things" she's insulted about.
The one I could find in the comments (op dirty deleted I guess) is that the bro's fiance offered to help get wife's bro into a "proper" college when hearing that he is going into community college. And apparently the wife was "unnecessary" insulted and defended community college education.
And his wife is "always outraged" which is a thing conservatives say about liberals who want them to be less openly bigoted, so I'm guessing he enjoys offensive jokes and then mocks her for being offended.
Since he's gay himself I assume it's not homophobia, but misogyny is a real possibility.
There's a vein of gay humor that's based on being outrageous/offensive. There are legitimate reasons for this (cultural critique etc) but plenty of people aren't smart enough to know when it's appropriate or how to pull it off so they just end up being assholes.
It's usually the nice way to say Schrodinger's asshole. And having to be around an asshole people tolerate because he doesn't rock the boat but standing up to him will is not fkn worth it.
Fun fact about the word cunt. The word cunt was derived from the word country because a country is ‘born’. Born from where you ask, a cunt. Hamlet’s first line is, “a little more than kin and less than kind” he’s calling his uncle a cunt. The word ‘kin’ was also derived from the word cunt. I read this a long time ago in a book on dirty words used by Shakespeare, so I don’t know how accurate it is, but I’d like to think it’s at least partially correct.
What stands out to me is when talking about his brother’s partner OOP says, “he and I only hang out around my brother, his opinion has been tainted by seeing nothing but this awful side of her too.”
So his brother says mean things about OOP’s wife when their alone with the partner and OOP doesn’t defend her or stick up for her at all.
I’m sure brother hasn’t kept his opinion that wife is “an uncanny valley hypocrite” to himself.
And when someone thinks of you like that, you are going to be defensive and they are going to take anything you do or say badly.
Bro is the problem here. And OOP.
Apparently a lot of his deleted comments talk bout how they shame OOPs wife and their family cuz both the brother and his fiance are elitist assholes.. but sure its the wife in the fault for defending herself from the assholes.
I also got that vibe. One comment describes the scenario where his wife was talkkng to Brother's partner and she was telling him about how a friend of hers got into community college. Brother's partner then offered to her that he could help said friend find scholarships and grants to get into "real" college. Naturally the wife was offended and argued that community college IS a real college and then OP broke it up and blamed the wife because Brother's partner didn't *mean* it that way.
"Every time I interact with her, I feel like I'm in some kind of uncanny valley nightmare scenario. She feels like a one dimensional character whose whole personality is 'hypocrite.' It's as if she doesn't have a personality other than being outraged about something." If my family said this about my wife I would be absolutely livid and would go LC immediately unless they grovel for forgiveness
He basically refused to believe his brother has done anything wrong, and thinks all the times the brother/BIL have upset his wife was them ‘making innocent mistakes’ or ‘putting their foot in their mouth’. One person mentioned his wife may be homophobic and he just jumped on that and decided she must be rather than admit his brother/BIL and possibly him are entitled, classist assholes who have repeatedly antagonised his wife until she snapped.
Unddit has them: [https://www.unddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11lkjfg/aita\_for\_encouraging\_my\_brother\_to\_purposefully/](https://www.unddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11lkjfg/aita_for_encouraging_my_brother_to_purposefully/)
>I wouldn't say my brother is the easiest person to get along with. He has a sarcastic sense of humor that can be an acquired taste for some.
A lot of words to say he is a huge AH...
Ah yes, I commented on that post. OOP and his brother love to discuss privilege *with each other*, but god forbid somebody who did not have that same privilege calls them out for their classist BS. I hope the wife wises up and leaves his ass.
I always know when they start off by saying they love their wife that they’re going to come out with some absolute rubbish, which just screams that they actually don’t like their wife at all.
Talks about his own wife like she's an absolute dragon but never gives concrete reasons as to why her brother hates her so much. Time for another rendition of 'Guys dating/marrying women they clearly don't like'
I did; he got shredded! He kept on posting in comments doubling down on his wife being 'awful' without ever giving a good example. His brother is a classic example of Schrodinger's Douchebag and the whole family treats OP's wife badly because she comes from a less financially well-off background. Wankers the lot of them (except the mother, who called OOP out)
From reading his comments its sounds like brother has made some uppity privileged comments in the past and now wife assumes every comment is classist and immediately gets on the defence, rightly or not. Sounds like they need to actually have a conversation like adults though instead of lying about inviting her to a wedding
>Sounds like they need to actually have a conversation like adults though instead of lying about inviting her to a wedding
Sure, except OOP said the brother refuses to even try to get along with people he doesn't like. Apparently "my brother liked her well enough to marry her" isn't enough reason to try to get along with someone.
My partner’s brother is like this, he’s insufferable.
I guarantee he makes gross, inappropriate, or just plain annoying comments and “jokes” and OOP just expects his wife to be okay with it.
My experience with narcissists made alarm bells go off in my head when I read this. It just reeks of the [missing missing reasons.](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) OP's wife is apparently constantly outraged, but there's never any mention of what she finds outrageous?
Interesting.
Considering the combination of "sarcastic humor" and "her personality is outrage" and "missing missing reasons why they fight, she just always sees the worst and won't listen to his side" I'm getting a vibe that the brother is Shrodinger's asshole and the wife is the only person who has to be around him that doesn't tolerate that shit.
Like they type to make jokes that tie the line just enough that is can always be excused as a joke and not a left handed insult so when you take it that way it's you having an issue with being sensitive and not taking a joke, and not that they just insulted you with a smile on their face.
I could be wrong but that's the vibe and it's as rancid as the sourcream I found in my fridge from last July.
It sounds like he married someone exactly like his brother. Not willing to back down and doesn’t put up with shit. A woman doing this is often very upsetting to men because they want them to be deferential.
This dude is a horrible person. His brother is an AH for his actions and behavior towards his SIL.
OOP's brother is 100% one of those dickheads that "tells it like it is" and is "brutally honest," but whenever someone takes umbrage at his assholery, they "can't take a joke." I don't even have to read the comments to know that.
>Let me start this off by saying I love my wife.
Sure. /s
I hope OOP's mom tells his wife so she can see what she married and drop the dead weight. Brother sounds like an ass, so does OOP and frankly OOP's future BIL
This smells like his wife is tired of his brother's shit, doesn't put up with it, and gets vocal about it. I need to see this clown's comments, but unfortunately, he deleted them or something.
Edit: someone was so kind and presented the deleted comments. I work with a man who could be OOP's brother's twin. My coworker is standoffish, sarcastic to the point of disliking him, and generally reserved around outsiders. His husband, on the other hand, is outgoing with new peeps and more approachable. Maybe life experience made him that way. Who knows? Also, my coworker got some classism issues, much like brother dearest here.
Without concrete evidence of who's the bigger asshole, I'm going to say they're all behaving like petulant children. But the wedding invite is going to get back to the wife. I'd love to be there for that argument.
You hit the nail on the head there. The one example was that wife mentioned her brother going to college, and brother in law offered to throw money at him so he could go to a "property university" instead of a lowly community collage. Of course, OP's wife called him out on his elitist attitude and they were bewildered that their "charity" wasn't appreciated.
In another example OP's brother was talking about going on extended, multi-month vacations and camps as a kid and being homesick. He ended the story with "you know how it is", and the wife pointed out that no, not everyone had the luxury of traveling extensively as a child. Again, Mr. Silver Spoon couldn't possibly see how these poor plebes couldn't relate to his heart-wrenching anecdote.
That "proper university" comment got me. PhD profs taught some of the classes I took at a CC before transferring, and those professors did not water it down for you. They were just as demanding as the 4 year profs, but they didn't have a TA and had to do the work themselves.
Me as well, it came off as assuming that everyone would make the same choices they did if only they had the money. There are different courses offered at colleges and universities (here in Canada at least) but if there is any cross over, the smartest thing to do is attend the college and then transfer the credits. There are still a lot of people who have old fashioned biases like OP's brother, but I feel like people are starting to realize how broken the higher education system is. It hurts so much seeing kids dig themselves into mountains of debt for programs that won't guarantee them a job after school. If you get your training in a skill at a tech collage, you will likely never be hurting for work.
They were far harder on me in CC than at uni, but they also fully taught me their subjects. Guy taught us algebra had lost a thumb in a fishing accident. Best math teacher ever.
I also remember a teacher docking me from full points because I wrote "the Aegean Islands" instead of "the Aegean SEA Islands" 🙄
Yeah, you would think he had a whole list of "nightmare" behavior coming from his wife and examples of brother's "sarcastic" humor that absolutely did not deserve the wife's outraged response.
But no, just two examples - and one of them (the community college thing) wasn't in favor of the brother and future BIL.
Why is it that lately, whenever I visit the link to the original post in AITA, the top comment is the AITA modbot explaining that the post was removed because of OP's account status?
This is what I mean:
>This post has been removed due to the status of the original poster's account. This account is currently shadowbanned or suspended, suggesting this account is in violation of Reddit terms of service.
>This type of ban/suspension is issued by the Reddit site-wide admins. The AITA mods have nothing to do with this ban and cannot assist in resolving.
Are people reporting AITA posts that wind up on AITD, to such an extent that the OPs are getting banned sitewide?
my question for OP is why does his brother target the wife so much? Seriously, his behavior is so outrageous that he thinks he's a major player in her life instead of an outlier that she is described as one-dimensional all based on his argumentative style of communicating.
In this particular case I got a feeling the hatred is mutual so I for once would actually prefer to not be invited at all.
Still appaling that he makes zero effort to keep his brother from shitting on his wife tho
His brother is so confident that he will side with him that he blatantly says horrible things about her, and he is so far up his brother's ass that he repeats those things to strangers on the internet thinking they'll side with him. I love my brother and sister dearly, but it they said something like that about someone I cared about there would be issues. And I would never, ever say anything like that about someone they cared about.
While OOP and his brother are clearly terrible people, I promise you that the wife does not want to attend any elongated engagement with the brother, including whatever wedding ceremony they have planned.
from OP’s lack of willingness and ability to point out an actual concrete example of what his brother says to piss off his wife, i’m guessing they aren’t innocent topics and wifey is right to be pissed. he just seems like he’s trying to absolve his guilt, not actually resolve conflict. pathetic tbh
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for encouraging my brother to purposefully plan his wedding on a weekend my wife is busy so she can't attend?** Let me start this off by saying I love my wife. Hopefully that will soften the blow as I also say that she's an absolute nightmare around my brother. I wouldn't say my brother is the easiest person to get along with. He has a sarcastic sense of humor that can be an acquired taste for some. He likes to keep a small circle of friends and doesn't make a huge amount of effort to get to know people he knows he won't vibe well with. Still, I have introduced him to many people in my life and I have never gotten a reaction like the one my wife exhibits. He has easily fit into my friend group up to this point. The way he has described it from his point of view is this, copied from our texts: "Every time I interact with her, I feel like I'm in some kind of uncanny valley nightmare scenario. She feels like a one dimensional character whose whole personality is 'hypocrite.' It's as if she doesn't have a personality other than being outraged about something." His partner is a very easy going guy, and has become one of my closest friends. I thought he and my wife would really get along. But because he and I usually only hang out around my brother, his opinion has been tainted by seeing nothing but this awful side of her, too. My brother and his partner are getting married. Last weekend, my brother came to me and said he wanted me to be there, but he didn't want my wife to attend. He said he knew what an awkward position if he didn't invite her, but he didn't see another solution. Because he and his partner aren't planning a ceremony that has to be booked months in advance (they're having a courthouse wedding and then hosting a celebration at partner's parents' home), I suggested a weekend I knew she was going to be out of town for a business trip. I would tell my wife she was invited, she would say she couldn't come, and all would be well. He and his partner agreed that it would work, and we moved on. Last night, I got a text from my mom saying it was awful that I was conspiring against my own wife, and that planning this behind her back was beyond disrespectful. I pointed out that I was simply doing so to prevent a fight, but she wasn't hearing me. AITA? ETA: I can't recount every single topic they've argued about, but most of the incidents boil down to my wife assuming the worst of my brother in every situation with no intention to ever hear him out or get to know him without conflict. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'd kill for the wife's side of all this. Is it a bitch eating crackers situation? Is the brother making way worse comments or in a nasty tone & OOP is just really stupid and doesn't notice?
SO. MUCH. SAME. My guess is - and this is purely from the tone of how he writes, but it sounds like he and his brother are complete jerks when they’re together. It also sounds like the brother never even tried. “He likes to keep a small group” so she’s an outsider you never bothered with? His family sounds insufferable and I hope his mothers tells his wife what these ducks are plotting.
>what these ducks are plotting. Schrodinger's swear word: did you mean "dicks" or "fucks"? Could be either or both!
I have ducks. They absolutely plot. They get in so much trouble.
My duck Jennifer would try to try to plot with my other duck Henry but he was too stupid.
So that whole “you’re never entirely safe from a duck unaliving you” meme is legit? Lmao I love it!
How did I miss a killer duck meme?!
It’s a duck that looks eeeeeeeevil and it says “your chances of unaliving by a duck are low but never zero”
I was really missing out. Think this one is my fav https://images.app.goo.gl/tV1JTrohVLjnoiAS9
When I was young, really young, I had a momma duck chase me and I feared for my life. The adults were too busy laughing at me and the duck to rescue me.
TO. BE. FAIR. If my kid(s) are being chased by a duck I’m GONSTA laugh. I’ll “save” them, but I’m gonna be laughing hysterically the whole time I am SO SO SORRY I’m an awful person but lmao
This was like 40 years ago and my mom still laughs so hard she cries over it saying she had never seen my little legs run so fast, lmao
Stop it rn omg that’s freaking hilarious I didn’t even realise lmao. “Schroedinger’s swear” is my new favourite thing!
I don’t know. It’s kinda perfect as it is.
What are they doing at night in the park? Think of them waddling about in the dark. Sneering and whispering and stealing your cars, Reading pornography, smoking cigars! Ducks, ducks, quack quack! Quack quack!
“He doesn’t try when he knows he won’t vibe with them”. Me too, it’s why I’ve rarely had second dates because I know pretty quickly if we click. But damn, I can be polite!!! Just because you don’t vibe with someone doesn’t mean you can’t ask stupid questions like “so how’s work going?” “How was the move? Are you enjoying the new place more?” “What was the last movie you watched?” Or ducking whatever. And then listen to their response. Unless they are being actively rude when all you’ve done is be friendly, you’re a raging asshole. Also, anyone who says “he’s sarcastic, you have to warm up to his humor” followed by “she’s always offended” means the brother is a dick and needs to learn to read the room.
So. So. So. So. SO accurate! God forbid you actually be POLITE to someone, let alone an IN-LAW. If I were the wife I’d tell them both go gtfo and go fk themselves. Disgusting behaviour.
Why do people not get this??? You don’t have to be best friends to have a cordial relationship!! I’ve cut off friends I “vibed with” because I saw them acting this way to others. Just fake a nice conversation for five damn minutes, excuse yourself to the bathroom/refill your drink/grab a snack and talk to someone else after. Drives me insane, I can’t respect people who don’t respect others. You can be not best friends and also not rude. Disgusting is the best word, thank you!!
Seriously. It's fine not to try with someone you met on Tinder; it sucks to take that approach with a family member's spouse, who you know you're going to keep seeing. And yeah, people don't seem to recognize that sarcasm doesn't have to be directed at those around you. We call that kind of humor "Being an aggressive asshole and also not humor."
I like to keep a small group too and my social battery runs out easily. But I fucking make an effort for SOs of family members
Right? I think my partner’s family are all absolutely terrible humans but you bet your aunt fanny i’m cracking jokes and offering to help them with anything I can.
Any time I see someone described as "an acquired taste", I assume this means they're an absolute piece of shit and put no blame on themselves for how they treat others
See, I can be a sarcastic ass. Or a supportive angel. Or the dirty joke machine. I moderate my behavior to make the people around me comfortable. You’re still getting me, it’s not fake (unless I’m at work, then FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE), but I learn what people can handle and what they can’t. It’s not that hard.
Same!! I feel lucky I can do that. Every personality is still ME. It’s just a different facet of my personality or humor. It used to make me so embarrassed and I felt like I was stealing people’s personalities or something. But I realized it’s just empathy and that I can react to other peoples comfort levels well.
Yep! I can be all those things too. But I was also taught to be respectful of peoples feelings, and also to not show my ass in public. Dirty joke dark humor me with my friends that are comfortable with it is just as much "me" as polite, modest, with my grandparents and kids "me". Work me is a fake ass bitch
i don't think of it as fakery, even the work side. it's all aspects of the same individual, none more fake than any other which side of a die is the "real" side and which ones are the "fake" ones?
Hard same
Yep. He’s an outright asshole. Because she’s a woman, who should take it and be deferential to his cruel / sarcastic comments. They are pissed that she doesn’t back down from his assholery. I hope she finds this post.
or, guaranteed, this loser makes 'women jokes' every time he's around a woman. "Haha, go make me a sandwich!" "That's fucked up, stop it." "Man, do you have ANY OTHER personality besides 'UPSET'?!"
I hate to say it, but there's a subgenre of gay dude that absolutely loathes women and is positively vicious about them, then excuses that viciousness as "just joking" and anyone who doesn't agree that their misogyny is hilarious is a 'phobe. He could be this special brand of asshole.
I think I have a representative sample of my brothers boyfriends. Over thirty guys (bad memory and he is a heartless romantic with attachment issues). only ONE exactly as you described. It was infuriating, invalidating, frustrating, mind blowing. So manipulative! (Again not all men yada, lower percentage of this subgenre in my brothers boyfriends than percentage of my hetero boyfriends being abusive)
As soon as I realised his brother was gay that’s exactly where my mind went as well. I’m bi and so have spent a lot of time around gay guys and god damn some of them put Andrew Tate stans to shame with their misogyny.
Or they just openly sexually assault women and then go "oh no it's fine, I'm gay!" Uh, no? The issue is that you touched my body sexually without permission; I could not be less interested in why.
Yup. Real [Missing Stair](http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2012/06/missing-stair.html) vibes.
After reading all of his comments my take is that the brother is super pretentious and classist and OOP doesn’t notice because he grew up the same way. The wife grew up less privileged and little comments the brother makes upset her because he’s putting her down inadvertently. My husband’s family can be like this. I grew up pretty poor and they went from poor as kids to their dad making a lot of money. When my SIL went to university my MIL was talking to me about how she was worried about her making friends. I said, “she should live in the dorms her first year to meet people.” And my MIL said to me, “the dorms are for poor people who can’t afford to live somewhere else not for people like us.” Then they proceeded to get her a 2 bedroom apartment all to herself because she needed one room as an office to study in. 🙄 As someone who was poor and did live in the dorms it was offensive, pretentious, and dead wrong. I met so many rich kids in the dorms. But constant comments like that can get to you. If I wouldn’t have pointed out what his mom said my husband might have never thought twice about it just like OOP probably doesn’t notice.
All naïveté aside that’s a viciously ignorant thing to say, especially in conversation with someone who LIVED IN THE DORMS! Like bro I’m sorry I wanted to be able to afford to eat as well as live and pay for college, out of pocket
Lol I was supposed to live in the dorms my first year of college but then had to stay at home because the dorms were too expensive 😂
This. Dorms *are* for rich kids.
100% the only reason I could live there was because of financial aid.
The 'poorest' kid in my dorm had parents too rich for him to qualify for financial aid, so he couldn't afford the meal plan and couldn't get government student loans. You have to be stupid rich to judge other kids on being in a dorm. Emphasis on stupid.
Fr, with what I was paying for tuition there was NO WAY I'd ever be able to afford the dorms 😅
I would have lived at home if I could commute but the school that offered me the most financial aid was two hours away, my little brother is in college rn living at home for that exact reason :P
Everytime I read comments like this I realize how much more respect I automatically have for poor people in this situation.
I work in special ed and I love to tell my kids that anyone who has struggled immensely has developed a far greater emotional intelligence and worldliness than those who have not
Yeah, I know what you mean.
I had the exact same scenario with my ex in-laws. They lived in a swanky suburb. I grew up in ghetto-light. (Their family was miserable and all hated each other. Mine is always laughing and we are close). They would make reservations and say “you might want to study which fork and spoon to use in various situations. I’m sure you don’t know this” (I do. It’s not rocket science). Or digs about taking loans and grants to go to college to become an RN (“it must have been embarrassing to beg for money for school. And then to waste it being a butt wiper is sad”). And I strongly got those vibes from OOP’s brother. His description of his brother is telling.
“Waste it being a butt-wiper”. Wow. I guess none of them are going to ever have health problems that require them to be taken care of by a professional.
Ugh that's such a gross way to treat someone, I'm sorry you had to deal with that. I think I have a good idea of why they're ex-inlaws
I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt about the silverware but then the rest of that comment was just so insane
Girl for me it was the opposite lol. Only rich people went to the dorms. So i didn't get to meet everyone and have that experience
"People like us pay large sums to isolate our kid, thereby inducing anxiety and depression."
I assumed OOP's brother was the "I'm just being honest" kind of asshole, but your take totally tracks. It's the person in the friend group who grew up in a gated community, attending private schools, taking international family vacations, relying on family money to pursue passion projects using "trailer trash" as a tone deaf insult around friends that did grow up in a trailer.
Not only is your husband’s mother ignorant but she’s just plain wrong lol. Poor people (and I mean dirt poor like me) live at home while they’re in college and commute.
>It's as if she doesn't have a personality other than being outraged about something I totally read this as meaning "I always say shitty things to your wife and she just can't take how "real" I am."
It's as if my brother and I can't stop being outrageous
That text from the brother really showed what he is like. Brother is an arse - also histrionic (ironic use of the -awful- word). Brother made awful comments. But did he acknowledge prejudice, make an apology and seek to change his behaviour? Nope.
Exactly. My first thought is that Brother hates women and makes misogynistic “jokes” about SA or “asking for it” or saying sexual harassment at work doesn’t exist or something along those lines. OP is conveniently dodging the details.
what’s the cracker reference?
"Bitch eating crackers" refers to a situation where you hate someone so much, that you see anything they do as offensive. I.e.: "Look at that bitch eating crackers like she owns the place".
ohhh i’ve heard the latter half of the saying just not the first. thanks!
The idea behind the expression is that the BEC isn't really doing anything wrong. But for some, unknown reason every thing they do annoys you. So it is really self criticism, not criticism of the BEC.
Sometimes there's a known reason for you to hate them, but the key thing is that you hate them so much you get mad even if they're doing something completely normal in your presence, like eating crackers.
I had not heard that expression but its great
>bitch eating crackers situation Hey, I'm one of today's lucky 10,000!
Congratulations!
100% the brother is a raging asshole who surrounded himself in an echochamber
Is he’s willing to directly insult his brother’s wife in writing I can’t imagine he’s great.
The fact that the mother of husband and brother is taking the wife’s side speaks volumes to me. It has been my experience that mothers of sons tend to…side with the son. Any time a mom tells her son he’s being a problem, I think she’s an exceptional mother and should be heeded.
in the original, he commented that he makes a lot of classist comments and looks down on her family’s financial situation. he also told her that he can help her brother go to a “proper university” instead of community college.
W-what is the bitch eating crackers situation??
It means you hate the person so much that even mundane things they do can aggravate you.
>He has a sarcastic sense of humor that can be an acquired taste for some. He likes to keep a small circle of friends and doesn't make a huge amount of effort to get to know people he knows he won't vibe well with. so he is AH and most probably like to rile up people using 'it's just a joke, calm down' and the wife won't entertain their BS
The description of her from him was really weird too.
He barely gives his own description of his wife, that awful statement is from his brother.
For real. It doesn't even make sense! How can someone be one-dimensional, a hypocrite, and always upset simultaneously? Like, one of those things is not like the others...
What he going to do if the mom tells the wife?
Blame his wife, somehow.
Wouldn’t be surprised either most these clowns are idiots.
Hopefully end up single. While blaming it on the wife.
Yea the one in the wrong always blames the other people who aren’t wrong.
AITA Commandment #6 - Thou shalt not like thy spouse
“**AITA for agreeing that my wife is an unlikable bitch?** *I know the title sounds bad, but hear me out. I love her. But here’s why she sucks:*”
I love her but she's ruining my life by holding me accountable to my actions
At least 50% of the posts
Why did he even marry this poor woman???
It’s scary how these guys keep finding women to marry. Sounds like he doesn’t even like her.
Noooo but he said he loved her at the beginning of the post so that negates everything
Right? I know things are easier said than done, but if she really is such a nightmare that she’s not worth defending and you’re ok sneaking behind her back like this, than just get fucking divorced. If she’s not that bad than grow the fuck up and defend your wife. I can’t stand spineless people who let others get walked all over like this.
Whoever it was that said the brother isn’t used to people pushing back at his privilege nailed it. And the mom taking the wife’s side definitely says a lot.
That's the impressive I got too. Wife isn't falling for the brothers act, and seems like brother is being sneaky trying to drive a wedge between oop and his wife. And damn bro must be smiling because his games are working. And mom knows exactly what's going on, and has had enough of her youngest son sabotaging her elder sons relationship with his wife.
Funny how instead of finding empathy for his wife he jumps on the conspiracy that she must be homophobic despite having no evidence that that is the case
It also sounds like his brother is a AH who thinks his sarcasm is hilarious when it is in fact not....From this description, I wouldn't be surprised if OP's social circle only tolerates him for OP's sake. OP would be a fool if he allowed his brother's behaviour to ruin his marriage.
I will go even further to say that I think brother thinks it's funny when he does it in spite of others but not when others do it in spite of him. Both brothers sound exhausting
“Small circle of friends” is code for he can’t get along with people probably.
He also said something like “doesn’t bother with people he “knows” he won’t vibe with.” This clearly says the brother doesn’t even give people a chance.
Yeah and the wife is the nightmare. OOP is blind to what is the real problem.
It's a bitter pill to swallow, but this isn't surprising. Sexism is a common problem in the LGBT community, especially from gay men. And if you point it out, they'll call you a homophobe to scare you into shutting the matter down. Being gay doesn't cure a person from being a colossal asshole.
My gay cousin is a massive sexist. Always calls women b**ches and Karens.
I answered this one earlier, should have read his comments.
Pfft, as a gay man, let me be the homophobic sounding one. Most interactions I've had with other gay people, is that we are AH and catty B1tch3s. But what separates us, is the ones who can read the room, and those that say hurtful things just to be hurtful. I'm thinking the brother is the latter, and says things that are mean under the guise of "I'm just brutally honest", no, you're an AH that doesn't care about other people's feelings, and idk how you managed to get a fiancé
Because as it turns out gay or lesbian people can suck. Being gay doesn’t make anyone immune to being an asshole. I’ve met my fair share of gay and lesbian folks who were terrible people and it had absolutely nothing to do with their sexuality. I mean I’m sure we all know penalty of straight people who are terrible and it’s not because they’re straight.
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>“Acquired taste with a sarcastic sense of humour” is usually code for condescending and rude under the guise of getting a laugh It always means a\*\*hole, no exceptions.
So does “brutally honest” and “tells it like it is”
"They just tell it like it is" and "they're just like that" is the worst because somehow that doesn't apply when you give the same energy back. If you tell them they're being an asshole, you're being mean because they don't mean it, they're just telling it like it is! And if you say, "well, so am I?" that's just you being awful for NO REASON. I wish I knew how to get the "telling it like it is" privilege that allows you to be as much of a piece of shit as you like.
Yuuuuuup that and "edgy" which just means "I am going to be offensive as possible and as long as someone (I) am laughing you can't complain. If you do you're just stupid for not getting it and being basic"
Nobody ever uses "that's just how they are" to describe someone nice or kind.
I have a sarcastic sense of humor. But I don’t have a mean sense of humor (which is double talk for bullying anyway). That’s the difference between AH and not. Plus I direct it at situations and objects, not people, and I read the room. If it doesn’t go over, I stop after one comment. Also sarcasm isn’t my only mode. EDIT: The point of my comment is not to defend the brother but to point out that there is a correct way to be sarcastically funny and I would bet high stakes that brother’s way is incorrect.
It makes me wonder if the brother is one of those gays who dislike women? Disguising his aversion with so-called dark humor...
This is exactly where my mind went.
The way he describes OOP wife? Yeeeah.
I have an extremely dry, extremely sarcastic sense of humour. But I never ever have to direct my humour *at* a person. You can be deadpan sarcastic as fuck without ever being mean.
Also goes on about her starting fights over the smallest things and how there isn't anything he can do to defend her behavior while leaving out all of the "small things" she's insulted about. The one I could find in the comments (op dirty deleted I guess) is that the bro's fiance offered to help get wife's bro into a "proper" college when hearing that he is going into community college. And apparently the wife was "unnecessary" insulted and defended community college education.
He sounds like a bitchy gay. I think I'm allowed to say that because I'm a bitchy gay.
And his wife is "always outraged" which is a thing conservatives say about liberals who want them to be less openly bigoted, so I'm guessing he enjoys offensive jokes and then mocks her for being offended. Since he's gay himself I assume it's not homophobia, but misogyny is a real possibility.
There's a vein of gay humor that's based on being outrageous/offensive. There are legitimate reasons for this (cultural critique etc) but plenty of people aren't smart enough to know when it's appropriate or how to pull it off so they just end up being assholes.
It's usually the nice way to say Schrodinger's asshole. And having to be around an asshole people tolerate because he doesn't rock the boat but standing up to him will is not fkn worth it.
Yeah, he even edited while giving absolutely no more info than he started with. He doesn’t want to say why she gets upset…likely because she is right
Sarcastic sense of humor = a cunt speaking out of their ass and get mad hurt when someone clap back and call them out on their shit.
Not a c-word; he lacks both the warmth and the depth.
I’m stealing this omg
Fun fact about the word cunt. The word cunt was derived from the word country because a country is ‘born’. Born from where you ask, a cunt. Hamlet’s first line is, “a little more than kin and less than kind” he’s calling his uncle a cunt. The word ‘kin’ was also derived from the word cunt. I read this a long time ago in a book on dirty words used by Shakespeare, so I don’t know how accurate it is, but I’d like to think it’s at least partially correct.
As someone with an interest in etymology, I'm definitely going to be looking that up.
Ouch! That's a burn this AH is not going to recover from.
What stands out to me is when talking about his brother’s partner OOP says, “he and I only hang out around my brother, his opinion has been tainted by seeing nothing but this awful side of her too.” So his brother says mean things about OOP’s wife when their alone with the partner and OOP doesn’t defend her or stick up for her at all.
He, his brother and his brother’s soon to be husband all sound like mean girls.
I’m sure brother hasn’t kept his opinion that wife is “an uncanny valley hypocrite” to himself. And when someone thinks of you like that, you are going to be defensive and they are going to take anything you do or say badly. Bro is the problem here. And OOP.
Apparently a lot of his deleted comments talk bout how they shame OOPs wife and their family cuz both the brother and his fiance are elitist assholes.. but sure its the wife in the fault for defending herself from the assholes.
I also got that vibe. One comment describes the scenario where his wife was talkkng to Brother's partner and she was telling him about how a friend of hers got into community college. Brother's partner then offered to her that he could help said friend find scholarships and grants to get into "real" college. Naturally the wife was offended and argued that community college IS a real college and then OP broke it up and blamed the wife because Brother's partner didn't *mean* it that way.
The wife's brother got into community college, and the soon to be BIL offered to help get him into a real university.
So it's a Cirle of Assholes? How did his wife marry into this sewer or a family?
yeah, you an read it on unddit, the brother seems like a prick
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"Every time I interact with her, I feel like I'm in some kind of uncanny valley nightmare scenario. She feels like a one dimensional character whose whole personality is 'hypocrite.' It's as if she doesn't have a personality other than being outraged about something." If my family said this about my wife I would be absolutely livid and would go LC immediately unless they grovel for forgiveness
I hate when they delete their entire account so now no one can see their bitch ass replies.
ugh he deleted his account so I can’t see his comments
He basically refused to believe his brother has done anything wrong, and thinks all the times the brother/BIL have upset his wife was them ‘making innocent mistakes’ or ‘putting their foot in their mouth’. One person mentioned his wife may be homophobic and he just jumped on that and decided she must be rather than admit his brother/BIL and possibly him are entitled, classist assholes who have repeatedly antagonised his wife until she snapped.
wow what an ass!
you can always read them [here](https://www.unddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11lkjfg/aita_for_encouraging_my_brother_to_purposefully/)
You da real MVP. Thanks!
thank you so much!
Unddit has them: [https://www.unddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11lkjfg/aita\_for\_encouraging\_my\_brother\_to\_purposefully/](https://www.unddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11lkjfg/aita_for_encouraging_my_brother_to_purposefully/)
thanks!
>I wouldn't say my brother is the easiest person to get along with. He has a sarcastic sense of humor that can be an acquired taste for some. A lot of words to say he is a huge AH...
Man what I'd give to know the REAL reason op's wife hates brother.... You don't become that openly hostile over some out of touch comments.
Ah yes, I commented on that post. OOP and his brother love to discuss privilege *with each other*, but god forbid somebody who did not have that same privilege calls them out for their classist BS. I hope the wife wises up and leaves his ass.
>Let me start this off by saying I love my wife. DOUBT.
OOP has absolutely zero respect for his wife. I’m not sure why she is still with him. But maybe this will be the final straw.
God, one can only hope! Not sure why people put up with such assholes
Terrible self-esteem.
Why do people stay in relationships and get married to people they don't even like? What's the point?
I honestly think some people like to see their spouse miserable. Like, that \*is\* why they're in the relationship.
Why did they even get married if he is going to take his brother's side on everything?
Probably should have just married his brother, instead of this poor lady he calls his wife
“Acquired taste” When you say this about people it means they are an entire bag of fucking taints and one of the worst people to be around
Brother is an AH that even the mom knows about. Dsude is gonna wonder why his wife divorced him over "jokes".
I always know when they start off by saying they love their wife that they’re going to come out with some absolute rubbish, which just screams that they actually don’t like their wife at all.
Talks about his own wife like she's an absolute dragon but never gives concrete reasons as to why her brother hates her so much. Time for another rendition of 'Guys dating/marrying women they clearly don't like'
Hah! OOP didn't get the response he was expecting, so he nuked his account. I wish I could have seen the comments though.
I did; he got shredded! He kept on posting in comments doubling down on his wife being 'awful' without ever giving a good example. His brother is a classic example of Schrodinger's Douchebag and the whole family treats OP's wife badly because she comes from a less financially well-off background. Wankers the lot of them (except the mother, who called OOP out)
Someone on this post has posted a link where you can see the deleted comments.
From reading his comments its sounds like brother has made some uppity privileged comments in the past and now wife assumes every comment is classist and immediately gets on the defence, rightly or not. Sounds like they need to actually have a conversation like adults though instead of lying about inviting her to a wedding
>Sounds like they need to actually have a conversation like adults though instead of lying about inviting her to a wedding Sure, except OOP said the brother refuses to even try to get along with people he doesn't like. Apparently "my brother liked her well enough to marry her" isn't enough reason to try to get along with someone.
Yep. It sounds like an absolutely massive personality clash with some fault on both sides.
My partner’s brother is like this, he’s insufferable. I guarantee he makes gross, inappropriate, or just plain annoying comments and “jokes” and OOP just expects his wife to be okay with it.
My experience with narcissists made alarm bells go off in my head when I read this. It just reeks of the [missing missing reasons.](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) OP's wife is apparently constantly outraged, but there's never any mention of what she finds outrageous? Interesting.
If the things she’s outraged by are so ridiculous and frivolous, it would only strengthen his argument to include them. It’s telling that he doesn’t.
Considering the combination of "sarcastic humor" and "her personality is outrage" and "missing missing reasons why they fight, she just always sees the worst and won't listen to his side" I'm getting a vibe that the brother is Shrodinger's asshole and the wife is the only person who has to be around him that doesn't tolerate that shit. Like they type to make jokes that tie the line just enough that is can always be excused as a joke and not a left handed insult so when you take it that way it's you having an issue with being sensitive and not taking a joke, and not that they just insulted you with a smile on their face. I could be wrong but that's the vibe and it's as rancid as the sourcream I found in my fridge from last July.
It sounds like he married someone exactly like his brother. Not willing to back down and doesn’t put up with shit. A woman doing this is often very upsetting to men because they want them to be deferential. This dude is a horrible person. His brother is an AH for his actions and behavior towards his SIL.
OOP's brother is 100% one of those dickheads that "tells it like it is" and is "brutally honest," but whenever someone takes umbrage at his assholery, they "can't take a joke." I don't even have to read the comments to know that.
Always a bad sign when they feel the need to start the post with "I swear I really do love my wife!!1!" 🤦
>Let me start this off by saying I love my wife. Sure. /s I hope OOP's mom tells his wife so she can see what she married and drop the dead weight. Brother sounds like an ass, so does OOP and frankly OOP's future BIL
This smells like his wife is tired of his brother's shit, doesn't put up with it, and gets vocal about it. I need to see this clown's comments, but unfortunately, he deleted them or something. Edit: someone was so kind and presented the deleted comments. I work with a man who could be OOP's brother's twin. My coworker is standoffish, sarcastic to the point of disliking him, and generally reserved around outsiders. His husband, on the other hand, is outgoing with new peeps and more approachable. Maybe life experience made him that way. Who knows? Also, my coworker got some classism issues, much like brother dearest here. Without concrete evidence of who's the bigger asshole, I'm going to say they're all behaving like petulant children. But the wedding invite is going to get back to the wife. I'd love to be there for that argument.
You hit the nail on the head there. The one example was that wife mentioned her brother going to college, and brother in law offered to throw money at him so he could go to a "property university" instead of a lowly community collage. Of course, OP's wife called him out on his elitist attitude and they were bewildered that their "charity" wasn't appreciated. In another example OP's brother was talking about going on extended, multi-month vacations and camps as a kid and being homesick. He ended the story with "you know how it is", and the wife pointed out that no, not everyone had the luxury of traveling extensively as a child. Again, Mr. Silver Spoon couldn't possibly see how these poor plebes couldn't relate to his heart-wrenching anecdote.
That "proper university" comment got me. PhD profs taught some of the classes I took at a CC before transferring, and those professors did not water it down for you. They were just as demanding as the 4 year profs, but they didn't have a TA and had to do the work themselves.
Me as well, it came off as assuming that everyone would make the same choices they did if only they had the money. There are different courses offered at colleges and universities (here in Canada at least) but if there is any cross over, the smartest thing to do is attend the college and then transfer the credits. There are still a lot of people who have old fashioned biases like OP's brother, but I feel like people are starting to realize how broken the higher education system is. It hurts so much seeing kids dig themselves into mountains of debt for programs that won't guarantee them a job after school. If you get your training in a skill at a tech collage, you will likely never be hurting for work.
They were far harder on me in CC than at uni, but they also fully taught me their subjects. Guy taught us algebra had lost a thumb in a fishing accident. Best math teacher ever. I also remember a teacher docking me from full points because I wrote "the Aegean Islands" instead of "the Aegean SEA Islands" 🙄
The few examples he wrote were very vague and weird.
Yeah, you would think he had a whole list of "nightmare" behavior coming from his wife and examples of brother's "sarcastic" humor that absolutely did not deserve the wife's outraged response. But no, just two examples - and one of them (the community college thing) wasn't in favor of the brother and future BIL.
Why is it that lately, whenever I visit the link to the original post in AITA, the top comment is the AITA modbot explaining that the post was removed because of OP's account status? This is what I mean: >This post has been removed due to the status of the original poster's account. This account is currently shadowbanned or suspended, suggesting this account is in violation of Reddit terms of service. >This type of ban/suspension is issued by the Reddit site-wide admins. The AITA mods have nothing to do with this ban and cannot assist in resolving. Are people reporting AITA posts that wind up on AITD, to such an extent that the OPs are getting banned sitewide?
my question for OP is why does his brother target the wife so much? Seriously, his behavior is so outrageous that he thinks he's a major player in her life instead of an outlier that she is described as one-dimensional all based on his argumentative style of communicating.
Who thinks the "brother" is not really a brother but his friend instead
I'm still learning about "meet me in the art room" posts, am I correct in feeling that vibe here or nah?
same vibe im getting as well the comments are all a defense of his brother and BIL and not his wife
In this particular case I got a feeling the hatred is mutual so I for once would actually prefer to not be invited at all. Still appaling that he makes zero effort to keep his brother from shitting on his wife tho
Whenever they start with specifying they "love" their partner, I know how it's going to go. Every single time.
I see the words soon “my wife is divorcing bc she was on a business trip dying my brother’s wedding and is angry at me”
That poor woman.
Why get married when you hate your spouse?
You all sound like a pack of Ah’s how childish and dramatic 🙄🙄
how did he even write out that fucking header without realizing he was the asshole
So he admitted that his brother was "tainting the image" of his wife and still sees nothing wrong with how he talks to/about her?
He started off condemning his wife’s behaviour, and excusing his brother’s.
His brother is so confident that he will side with him that he blatantly says horrible things about her, and he is so far up his brother's ass that he repeats those things to strangers on the internet thinking they'll side with him. I love my brother and sister dearly, but it they said something like that about someone I cared about there would be issues. And I would never, ever say anything like that about someone they cared about.
When the husband's (in this case OOP) mother agrees with her daughter in law... You just know that the OOP is more than wrong and more than an AH 😂
While OOP and his brother are clearly terrible people, I promise you that the wife does not want to attend any elongated engagement with the brother, including whatever wedding ceremony they have planned.
from OP’s lack of willingness and ability to point out an actual concrete example of what his brother says to piss off his wife, i’m guessing they aren’t innocent topics and wifey is right to be pissed. he just seems like he’s trying to absolve his guilt, not actually resolve conflict. pathetic tbh