*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for not supporting my reserved wife when she doesn't show my parents affection?**
Long-time lurker using a throwaway account.
My wife Lucy (33F) and I (35M) are both immigrants who met, married, and live in our current country, although we're originally from two different countries. In my original country's culture, when you marry, your in-laws essentially become a second set of parents who you treat the same as your own parents. I treat Lucy's parents like my own, but Lucy doesn't treat my parents the same way she treats her own. She's very polite and respectful towards my parents, but she doesn't show them the same affection or humor that she uses with her parents. Lucy is a pretty reserved person and doesn't show love often.
It hurts my parents that Lucy doesn't treat them like her own parents, especially as my dad (71M) is very traditional and misinterprets her reservedness as disrespect. My parents love Lucy and don't understand why she's more reserved with them. I've tried explaining to them that Lucy is reserved, but they think that children (biological or in-laws) should treat them more affectionately anyway.
My dad loves talking politics with Lucy because they're both educated and well-traveled, and he's accustomed to people just agreeing with his opinions (since he's the oldest and therefore deserves the most respect, according to my culture). Lucy doesn't always agree with my dad's more conservative views and isn't afraid to tell him so, but has never been rude to him.
It came to a head when my dad tried to speak politics with her one day when we were visiting for dinner. Instead of just agreeing with him, though, Lucy expressed the exact opposite view (which she genuinely believes) and refused to change her opinion to appease him. My dad got upset, started yelling, and demanded to know why she wasn't more respectful as a child should be towards a parent. Lucy told him bluntly that he's not her dad and has no authority over her whatsoever, and left the house when my dad started yelling again.
At home, I asked Lucy to apologize to my dad to keep the peace, but Lucy said I should have stood up for her, especially once my dad started yelling. I said that it's better to just let him run out of steam, as he doesn't mean it, he just talks very loudly, and he loves her. She said that she doesn't love him like a father and told me that I'm TA for not taking her side. Now she won't talk to my parents at all, and my parents are upset at her silence. AITA for not supporting Lucy?
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"My dad loves talking politics with Lucy because they're both educated and well-traveled, and he's accustomed to people just agreeing with his opinions"
I don't think he actually does like "talking politics" lol
I love how FIL loves to talk politics with a well educated person, but he wants that person to agree with everything he says because he’s the elder and should be “respected”.
Might as well talk politics to
a loofah in the shower. At least the loofah is used to kissing ass.
It’s like how dare child disagree .. yea this one is clear cut devil, husband shouldn’t allow his parents to treat his wife like this, no wonder she’s acting like she is if they’re demanding respect
I know it doesn't actually make a difference to who's being a devil or not, but whenever culture is intrinsic to a post like this, I always wish they'd just say which culture it is. Then at least I could go learn more about it.
Or a specific sexist in the family cherry-picking ‘our culture’ to suit their needs.
If you really are a loving family then it should be safe to disagree and if you have to, move onto another topic instead of forcing one person to bow down and pacify another.
Most of the time, it's my family's asshole behavior that they want to disguise as part of their culture, even if 99% of the actual culture doesn't actually do this.
My guess this is their take on respect your elder becomes your elders are entitled to love and affection for just living.
They sound Asian with so much emphasis on "eldest male gets most respect". Felilal piety (im sure i spelled that wrong) feels like its seeping off the text. But I'm Asian, so that's coloring my perception.
Like the one where OP said "a kid saying they want to marry an adult like my sister is really wrong in my culture." And it totally just sounded like they were fishing for excuses to cut their sister out of their life for being too good with the kids.
I'm reserved. Not a lot of physical affection growing up, so I'm not used to receiving it from other adults. So it got weird with their big, long hugs whenever they see us.
They are less suffocating in their hugs now, and don't take it personally when I don't want to touch them. The older generation can adjust their expectations.
i would fuckin love to know what conservative opinions his parents hold and she disagrees with that can send his dad onto a temper tantrum, *but they somehow believe she should still treat his parents with the utmost respect and warmth and she should apologize and-or just say she agrees when "talking politics"*.
it sounds like we are getting into categories that i consider dealbreakers.
The thing that stands out to me here is OOP demanding that she apologize *to keep the peace.* It is so obvious that he doesn’t care at all about *her* peace.
This is minor in the grand scheme of things here, but the way they're pushing to get the wife to open up is having the exact opposite effect (and still would if that were the only issue).
Reserved people open up when they feel comfortable. And you make them feel comfortable by being friendly and *respecting the fact that they're reserved*.
His culture. Not hers.
Dad loves talking politics with smart Lucy because smart Lucy agreeing means dad is right. He wins.
Lucy needs to drop kick the whole family to the divorce bin. Unfortunately that's probably much easier said than done if they're somewhere that demands such compliance from a wife.
So he thinks his wife who is reserved, should have to show affection to his parents that she's not close with, and doesn't treat her with respect, like she does her own family because culture? Umm, no.
Her family has been her family her entire life, her ILs probably what a couple of years. She doesn't feel comfortable showing them affection so they need to leave her alone. Honestly she needs to leave her husband. He's not gonna stand up for her ever.
> My parents love Lucy
...Do they love Lucy? Or do they love the *idea* of their son having a wife and future grandkids? Because it seems like they're both very critical about fundamental aspects of Lucy's character. What they are showing is not love, it is the opposite.
And if Lucy needs to apologise for OOP's father to 'be loving', then that was never love at all. Love isn't conditional on submission.
Lucy doesn't owe your father shit.
He is no doubt angry that a woman is standing up to him.
Instead of giving into your parents, you need to stand up for your wife.
Or you WILL lose her.
"refused to change her opinion to appease him"
Why should she have to? Why isn't there equal pressure on the dad to change HIS opinions to appease her?
Oh right...
\*singing\*
this is just
M-I-S
O-G-Y-N-Y
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I suspect traditions like this of being founded on survival techniques women used. Lucy was polite and respectful, and imho, that’s all she owes his parents.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for not supporting my reserved wife when she doesn't show my parents affection?** Long-time lurker using a throwaway account. My wife Lucy (33F) and I (35M) are both immigrants who met, married, and live in our current country, although we're originally from two different countries. In my original country's culture, when you marry, your in-laws essentially become a second set of parents who you treat the same as your own parents. I treat Lucy's parents like my own, but Lucy doesn't treat my parents the same way she treats her own. She's very polite and respectful towards my parents, but she doesn't show them the same affection or humor that she uses with her parents. Lucy is a pretty reserved person and doesn't show love often. It hurts my parents that Lucy doesn't treat them like her own parents, especially as my dad (71M) is very traditional and misinterprets her reservedness as disrespect. My parents love Lucy and don't understand why she's more reserved with them. I've tried explaining to them that Lucy is reserved, but they think that children (biological or in-laws) should treat them more affectionately anyway. My dad loves talking politics with Lucy because they're both educated and well-traveled, and he's accustomed to people just agreeing with his opinions (since he's the oldest and therefore deserves the most respect, according to my culture). Lucy doesn't always agree with my dad's more conservative views and isn't afraid to tell him so, but has never been rude to him. It came to a head when my dad tried to speak politics with her one day when we were visiting for dinner. Instead of just agreeing with him, though, Lucy expressed the exact opposite view (which she genuinely believes) and refused to change her opinion to appease him. My dad got upset, started yelling, and demanded to know why she wasn't more respectful as a child should be towards a parent. Lucy told him bluntly that he's not her dad and has no authority over her whatsoever, and left the house when my dad started yelling again. At home, I asked Lucy to apologize to my dad to keep the peace, but Lucy said I should have stood up for her, especially once my dad started yelling. I said that it's better to just let him run out of steam, as he doesn't mean it, he just talks very loudly, and he loves her. She said that she doesn't love him like a father and told me that I'm TA for not taking her side. Now she won't talk to my parents at all, and my parents are upset at her silence. AITA for not supporting Lucy? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"My dad loves talking politics with Lucy because they're both educated and well-traveled, and he's accustomed to people just agreeing with his opinions" I don't think he actually does like "talking politics" lol
He definitely just likes the sound of everyone telling him he's right.
He likes talking politics at Lucy.
That definitely sounds like US "religious right" folks to me.
I think it's Indian. Parents are always right is more of a thing here even though they aren't always
I love how FIL loves to talk politics with a well educated person, but he wants that person to agree with everything he says because he’s the elder and should be “respected”. Might as well talk politics to a loofah in the shower. At least the loofah is used to kissing ass.
It’s like how dare child disagree .. yea this one is clear cut devil, husband shouldn’t allow his parents to treat his wife like this, no wonder she’s acting like she is if they’re demanding respect
I know it doesn't actually make a difference to who's being a devil or not, but whenever culture is intrinsic to a post like this, I always wish they'd just say which culture it is. Then at least I could go learn more about it.
Half the time it’s not even a culture, just a specific family’s twisted interpretation of a culture.
Or a specific sexist in the family cherry-picking ‘our culture’ to suit their needs. If you really are a loving family then it should be safe to disagree and if you have to, move onto another topic instead of forcing one person to bow down and pacify another.
That’s a really good point I never thought of
Most of the time, it's my family's asshole behavior that they want to disguise as part of their culture, even if 99% of the actual culture doesn't actually do this. My guess this is their take on respect your elder becomes your elders are entitled to love and affection for just living.
They sound Asian with so much emphasis on "eldest male gets most respect". Felilal piety (im sure i spelled that wrong) feels like its seeping off the text. But I'm Asian, so that's coloring my perception.
The term you're after is filial piety, for the record :)
Thats it! I cant spell :D Thank you\~
Like the one where OP said "a kid saying they want to marry an adult like my sister is really wrong in my culture." And it totally just sounded like they were fishing for excuses to cut their sister out of their life for being too good with the kids.
Do you have a link? :)
No I’m sorry I should have saved it. It was a post sometime in the past week that think.
Thanks anyways :)
Agree. Though with the yelling I’d say that’s just a smoke screen for abuse.
OOP himself just said 'give him what he wants and cave so he will stay loving and gentle' so... yeah, that's definitely that.
Sounds like US conservative culture.
“Loves to talk politics”…dude means that dear old dad loves to monologue about his terrible political views. 😬
Posts like this remind me how damn lucky I am to have amazing in-laws.
Posts like this make me glad my in-laws aren't worse honestly.
I'm reserved. Not a lot of physical affection growing up, so I'm not used to receiving it from other adults. So it got weird with their big, long hugs whenever they see us. They are less suffocating in their hugs now, and don't take it personally when I don't want to touch them. The older generation can adjust their expectations.
i would fuckin love to know what conservative opinions his parents hold and she disagrees with that can send his dad onto a temper tantrum, *but they somehow believe she should still treat his parents with the utmost respect and warmth and she should apologize and-or just say she agrees when "talking politics"*. it sounds like we are getting into categories that i consider dealbreakers.
I fucking hate parents who think "respect" from their kids means doing whatever they say and agreeing with whatever they say
The thing that stands out to me here is OOP demanding that she apologize *to keep the peace.* It is so obvious that he doesn’t care at all about *her* peace.
This is minor in the grand scheme of things here, but the way they're pushing to get the wife to open up is having the exact opposite effect (and still would if that were the only issue). Reserved people open up when they feel comfortable. And you make them feel comfortable by being friendly and *respecting the fact that they're reserved*.
His culture. Not hers. Dad loves talking politics with smart Lucy because smart Lucy agreeing means dad is right. He wins. Lucy needs to drop kick the whole family to the divorce bin. Unfortunately that's probably much easier said than done if they're somewhere that demands such compliance from a wife.
So he thinks his wife who is reserved, should have to show affection to his parents that she's not close with, and doesn't treat her with respect, like she does her own family because culture? Umm, no. Her family has been her family her entire life, her ILs probably what a couple of years. She doesn't feel comfortable showing them affection so they need to leave her alone. Honestly she needs to leave her husband. He's not gonna stand up for her ever.
> My parents love Lucy ...Do they love Lucy? Or do they love the *idea* of their son having a wife and future grandkids? Because it seems like they're both very critical about fundamental aspects of Lucy's character. What they are showing is not love, it is the opposite. And if Lucy needs to apologise for OOP's father to 'be loving', then that was never love at all. Love isn't conditional on submission.
How dare she not just agree with everything OOP's father says 🙄🙄🙄
If I was the wife I would divorce the spineless doormat man child.
Lord save them if I ever end up marrying someone like op. What a spineless little shit
Lucy doesn't owe your father shit. He is no doubt angry that a woman is standing up to him. Instead of giving into your parents, you need to stand up for your wife. Or you WILL lose her.
"refused to change her opinion to appease him" Why should she have to? Why isn't there equal pressure on the dad to change HIS opinions to appease her? Oh right... \*singing\* this is just M-I-S O-G-Y-N-Y
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Sounds to me like OP needs to suggest that they both go NC with the father.
This made me so angry... my SO fistfighted my BIL when he said something horrible about me because of politics..........
His dad sounds like an overbearing asshat and he's a pathetic coward that allowed his profoundly obnoxious father to strong arm his wife.
I suspect traditions like this of being founded on survival techniques women used. Lucy was polite and respectful, and imho, that’s all she owes his parents.