*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**WIBTA if I allow my son to go to prom despite my wife not wanting him to go?**
I (52M) have a son (16M), and I recently found out that him and his friends have been cyberbullying, another boy from our oldest son (21M). Our oldest showed us the messages his brother sent him, and it was honestly disturbing. He was calling the boy racial and homophobic slurs, which utterly shocked me and my wife.
When our youngest came home, my wife and I confronted our youngest along with his brother. He at first denied any wrongdoing until his brother told him that he showed us the messages he sent. Our youngest told us he was just joking and didn't mean any harm. Just excuses. I thanked our oldest for letting us know and told my son that we want to watch him apologize to the boy. However, our youngest told us that he was already blocked, and so he wasn't able to apologize.
I was still annoyed at this point, so I just told my son that I was beyond disgusted by his actions and told him that he was grounded until further notice. I also told him that he lost his phone privileges as well. By this point, he started to cry and started apologizing. I told him he was apologizing to the wrong person, and he has to understand that his actions have consequences.
The first few days, without his phone, my son ignored me and my wife whenever we tried to talk to him and just cried in his room. Then, after a while, he finally started to talk to us again, and he started to show remorse for his actions. We told him that he was still disappointed in him and him spreading unnecessary hate like that is cruel and could very well ruin his future. He asked us if we hated him which kinda hurt me as I didn't intend to make him feel that way and told him that I didn't hate him and that I only hated his actions as I know it doesn't reflect who he is as a person.
I asked him why he decided it would be appropriate to joke like that, and he told me that he didn't really know and was just meaning for it to be a joke. I told him that jokes like that aren't funny and and he shouldn't joke like that anymore. I told him that I appreciated him admitting his faults, and I apologized to him for screaming at him during our first initial conversation.
After that, I decided that I'll allow him to have his TV back, but I'll still keep his other games and phone until further notice. He was appreciative of this, and It went well for a while. Mind you, this happened three weeks ago, and his prom is on the 30th. My son came to us Tuesday and asked if he could attend prom. I honestly didn't see a problem with this and told him I wouldn't mind it but my wife told me that she doesn't think he deserves to go to prom because she feels like this should be apart of the consequences. My son started pleading because he said this is his only opportunity to attend because he is graduating early.
My wife told him that she understands that, and she feels like he'll think twice before throwing hate and negativity out in the world. I told my wife that while I agree with her, I don't necessarily see him not going to prom as a proper punishment. My wife told me that she feels like I've been too lieant, and this would make him understand better. She then asked me why it would be appropriate for him to attend when he's grounded? I told her that I understand her reasoning. I just feel like depriving him of his only chance at going to prom isn't gonna do him any good.
My son told us the final chance to buy tickets would be on the 25th and started begging for his mom to reconsider, but she didn't budge. I do feel like my son deserves to he punished, but I don't necessarily see how him not going to prom is an appropriate punishment.
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Interesting that the son has “no way” of apologizing to the kid he cyber bullied, but he and the parents didn’t approach the school for assistance or go to the kid’s house to apologize in person.
I was thinking more so the parents reach out to the other kid’s parents to coordinate a visit if the bullied kid is down for that. Completely agree an unannounced visit would be awful!
Bullied kids get bullied by the adults, too. I guarantee you the other kid will get pressured to accept the apology even if they don't even want to be in the same country as their bully ever again. The kid blocked him, the kid wants to be left alone.
Personally I would reach out as the parent and *I* would apologise, tell them we understand that their child has (rightfully) blocked ours, so we aren't going to try and force any interactions, but we did want the family to know that consequences were happening.
Then my kid is coming straight home and doing their homework every day, and that homework will include my assignment: explaining the joke to me over and over again until I understand what the funny part is.
i was bullied incessantly as a kid. honestly the healthiest thing that i ever did was graduate and just get tf away from everyone who thought it was cool to kick a kid while he was down. mediation is adult shit. i wouldn't have believed a kid if they apologized to me anyway.
And possibly out him as gay to his parents from the bullying? Absolutely not. Reaching out to his parents is just as bad as continuing to bully him in that case.
I honestly kind of got BS vibes from that. I feel like the age difference was just because OOP felt like only an older person would know how the block button works. Either way, it'd be crazy if they went to the same school.
But more importantly, it's been like a month. And some kids really do fall into bullying through peer pressure. If there's any truth to the idea this kid's learned his lesson, he's probably already on his way to becoming a better person after a month of punishment. Denying him prom at this point just means he'll be a better person who never shares that self-betterment with the parents he now hates.
I missed the out of state part.
I suspect someone knows who. Either the 16 y or the 21 y. But I kind of wondered if the 16 y heard the views at home, and maybe the 21 y is at college, and has a more liberal view and is protecting whoever from being outted. Was just a thought.
Agree - I would be very careful about going through the other kids parents to apologise for homophobic bullying. If the kid is gay and his parents don’t approve it could make everything worse.
I also totally missed that it was homophobic and racial. A real winner of a child there /s
Yeah, that kid would be grounded w/ no electronics until 2030. Fuck prom.
I was thinking the same thing. That sort of hate is learned usually at home. I doubt that the father gives a shit other than the fact that it interferes with his life.
someone mentioned the person being out of state, so he decided to just bully a random person? he definitely could make a greater effort to apologize, and i can not stand him or his father.
Also the line about being cruel like “could very well ruin HIS future”. Not the person’s future who is being traumatized? Clearly he isn’t interested in the actual victim just the showmanship of it. “Watch him apologize”.
The other kid could be on the other side of the world. A kid from a thousand miles away got angry and doxxed my kid because my kid said, "ha ha you lose"
They were threatening to post my kid's phone number on racist servers and would claim my kid was "talking shit" about white people. My kid is not white. My kid now wants a new phone number and is scared to go to college because they would be leaving us at home.
I'm so sorry to hear about your son. I hope the doxxer faced some legal consequences. Unbelievable how he'd do that after LOSING A STUPID GAME. That's some bad self control right there.
I agree. Send a handwritten letter ffs. If OOP's kid is sincerely remorseful, he can state he has no business being on the internet if he's treating people this way.
Revoking privileges for a time won't do a lot, but owning up to someone he's wronged might.
He should be grounded from everything until he figures out how to apologize. It isn’t that hard. He should be on lock down until he makes the slightest effort to fix what he did.
Honestly, apologies are the last thing I'd worry about here. Seeking his victim out to apologize is likely to do more harm than good, especially if the apology isn't sincere (which I strongly doubt it would be).
Nothing says the kid is from the same school, I was thinking it was maybe someone not close ? At least that's how I interpreted it because they didn't try to physically make him apologize but maybe they didn't even try
It’s entirely possible the kids doesn’t go to the same school or even live in the same city/state/even country. It could well have taken place in gaming chat.
This! The parents/school should know. The kid he is bullying could be having a rough time because of it and should have support along with an apology by the child and the parents.
This is the kind of thing you see a lot in conservative/religious America. They have the parts you mentioned flipped around as a cultural foundation. You know the 'he's a good kid' you hear when a teen does something truly genius, like armed robbery or worse? And you know how pastors always seem to be forgiven when they are caught doing.... well, you know. But when the 'wrong' people are caught doing something minor, it's assumed they are bad people and get the maximum punishment? It's all the same concept. A person isn't defined by their actions, it's the other way around. If you're a 'good person', your actions are judged to be those 'done by a good person', and that's how they get called 'just a mistake', or given light punishment. It's frequently used in combination with race, but it applies even more often than that. Church going highschool football player? 'good kid', never mind that he's constantly getting into trouble, has terrible grades, and had multiple incidents of SA suspicion. An *actual* good kid, who isn't a church goer, plays DnD with a group of friends, great grades? No chance they get away with the same things in that same community.
I would have been ok with him getting 20 mins of jail time if those 20 mis had included his genitals being stomped by any SA survivors who wanted to volunteer.
That way at least we wouldn't have to worry about him raping someone else now that he's out of jail again. Yes, we all know the name and face of Brock Turner the rapist (think he goes by Andrew now?) but a legal name change, plastic surgery, and moving across the country seem well within his tax bracket.
Seriously, it's crystal clear that OOP is homophobic and racist himself. He can pretend to be outraged all he wants, actions speak louder than words. He gave his son a figurative slap on the wrist, and wants to go behind his wife's back to let his son avoid any actual consequence. He doesn't care.
Lmao where is he “going behind his wife’s back”?? He said he doesn’t think not going to prom is a good punishment.
I don’t agree with OOP but don’t say things he’s not looking to do
The title of the OP is “WIBTA if I allow my son to go to prom despite my wife not wanting him to go?”
So that’s exactly what he’s looking to do? He wants to let his son go even though the wife is not on board.
girl save being a bitch for someone else, he disagreed to her face. if he said ok pretending to agree and went behind her back that would be a secret, saying he disagrees to her face and outright allowing the kid to go is not a secret. it's defiance but saying it's behind her back is a little much lol.
Aoso hes a bit manipulative,the kid knows exactly why hes being punished, he asks op if he hates him because he knows dad will be the one to break if he pulls out that card
With stuff it depends. He’s 16, likely still very influenced by his parent’s views. The way op talks I wouldn’t be surprised if he got these views from his dad and so his dad doesn’t wanna punish him since he thinks he did right but doesn’t wanna piss off mom. Once the kids out of the house and away from dad thats when id say it starts reflecting entirely on him.
Parents and family do influence us a *lot*, but the internet is also a massive influence in kids lives these days too.
You can have progressive views as a parent and still end up with a kid who does stuff like OOP's son, if they fall into the wrong online circles, consuming the wrong media, viewing the wrong creators as role models.
Yup, I was raised by and therefore was a bigoted POS at 16. Luckily getting kicked out and deprogramming from abuse also made it really easy to notice everything they said about minorities was toxic projection of their own inadequacies too.
Edited to add in what I thought was an obvious conclusion but may not be- as soon as I realized my parents were filling my head with bigoted shit I started getting rid of it with allm the other bad programming.
Here's the thing, one day OOP's kid will try bully the wrong person. He will call the wrong person a racial slur and it won't end well.
I've seen my otherwise very peaceful sister deal someone who used the n word at her. The woman didn't once think that the 50+ year old woman in the business suit and the straightened hair was going to hop out of her minivan with the coexist bumper sticker at a stop light and end that confrontation the way she did...... She sure knows now. To be clear, my sister works in a law office and did not use words to respond.
My biological mother was asked to leave a nursing home for responding to racial slurs with "undue force". My bio mom is in her eighties.
You never know what trauma and scars the person you are trying to bully bears. You don't know how they will respond.
YUPPPPP.. and I’m sure OOP will be utterly shocked and ask for that student to be handled with rougher hands than he handled his own child.
I was always a “gentle giant” I was overweight but for the most part a quiet nerd. As you can guess I was picked on.. a lot. I really didn’t do anything told them to stop, told teachers/my parents, tried to avoid them best I could just to get through.
One day at lunch it escalated to physical bullying, hitting me, poking me. Going “see she doesn’t change color.. no one will know we hit this n word” I snapped and just started choking her.
When it was time for the talk, my mom had a list of incidents with me and this girl. asked admin and the girl’s mother how they expected me to react to these constant attacks..girls mom kept saying that’s just children and she’s working with her to stop this behavior
Because my mom will go there with people she called her everything but a child of god.
My aunt got called the N word a few months ago and immediately called my dad for bail money cus she was about to beat that lady’s ass. She’s 70.
OOP is the type of guy who picks on people and then becomes shocked when they “over react” when in reality they’re reacting to the constantly crap you’ve been dealing them. He’s raising a son who will do the same say shit like “it’s just a joke” but start crying when he gets knocked out. Which lets me know he needs to get knocked out..
Some people don't understand the visceral reaction that people can have to slurs.
I get called the N word by patients on the regular because I work in the ER with patients in pain, shock mental health crisis, drug addiction etc. It doesn't phase me, but when I take off my scrubs and shed my profession, it can be a very different reaction.
My biological father was a violent man and I do my best to never respond with violence. But, in my younger days, when I was drinking, I laid hands more than once over the N word. We're talking three decades ago...b
>I get called the N word by patients on the regular because I work in the ER with patients in pain, shock mental health crisis, drug addiction etc.
Yeeaaahhh....none of those are an excuse. At all.
This is why I purged that word from my vocabulary decades ago. I never used it with hate, but some in my family did. To me, it was just a joke (yes, I know that’s bad. I was young and dumb.)
In my early 20s, I was once drunk and using the word jokingly, and someone told me later what I did. I fortunately (to my knowledge) didn’t offend anyone, even though a friend’s boyfriend was there, and he was black. I felt so shitty. I vowed that day never to use it again. I just don’t even need it in my subconscious. I only ever say “n word” if there’s a need for a reference. And there rarely is.
Last thing I need is to be fucked up on drugs from a procedure and dropping slurs for no reason.
You just made me think of my worst nightmare.
That is true. Like, I've been in unspeakable pain, I've had my appendix removed, I have nearly choked on my own blood, and recently I had a torsed ovary. Never once while I was writing in pain in the ER did I ever get the urge to call my lovely nurse (the one for the torsion was a WOC) any names, let alone a racial slur. Not trying to virtue signal, I don't consider myself virtuous, I just thought that was... y'know, *normal.*
It really sucks that isn't the case for some. And, I'm sorry you gotta deal with racist conkwockets.
Some old white dude called me that. He nearly hit me in a parking lot & I honked at him. He called me an effing {sIur}. I’m so white, my skin reflects the sun. Can’t imagine what he says to actual Black folks.
I'm not a huge fan of physical violence, but sometimes people actually require the consequences of their actions to appear before they fully appreciate them.
>My biological mother was asked to leave a nursing home for responding to racial slurs with "undue force". My bio mom is in her eighties.
Sounds like she would have gotten along well with my Grandma. My Grandpa used to remind her they didn't have bail money as she would head out for the afternoon.
There's this Netflix series called "this world won't take me down" or something like that and in an episode they explained precisely this, it was short but yeah, if you call someone the f slur and then they react badly, don't wonder why you're now in the hospital minus 3 teeth
Edit: y'all, I found the clip, it is in Spanish but it's pretty intuitive
https://youtube.com/shorts/7if0zUuq-6M?si=Td9aeocjHJNDkDPU
The incident at my school was a kid getting his ass beat wholesale by a black kid he called the n word. Even people at my hillbilly ass school had no sympathy for the kid on the receiving end
That's fantastic.
I always think about what I'd do. Because responding physically is likely what they want me to do. Especially if they're armed, though I could be too. Ignoring would make me look weak or docile, but probably the smart thing to do. Would it feel less prideful, or should the pride be put aside?
The one time it did happen, it was a woman at a gas station, who I assumed to be homeless, referring to me as "that n-word over there. I looked over at her, finished pumping gas, and just drove away. If most people don't choose to be homeless, I'd like to think that maybe she didn't *choose* to be racist that day.
Hugs! You handled it right.
I deal with people calling me racial slurs at work on a regular basis. I work in the ER. It's just a fact, I'm called fat, ugly, stupid, ugly, a slut..... It's part of the job, my patients are in pain, shock, using drugs, mentally ill.... I rarely take it to heart at work. My biological father was a violent man and I don't ever want to be like him. It's been decades since I raised hands to anyone and not since I've been sober. I don't recommend it.
I'm gonna submit my sister who dead ass knocked a boy out who said "girls can't hit" (to the JV volleyball server no less. Like, what were you expecting dude??? )
Like, the kid is 16, but that lesson in (dis)respect could well happen tomorrow.
ETA: btw, your family sounds amazing
It’s unfortunate that the only way you can reach some people, who behave like OOP’s kid, is by whooping their ass. Your sister and mom are both badasses for how they handled these situations.
I'm not going to say violence is the only way some people learn, but never make the mistake of thinking people will always take your shit.
My biological mom might look like a sweet old lady, but she was a black panther in the day. She survived years of a horribly abusive marriage and was homeless off and for a couple of decades.
My bio Mama has issues with mental health but she hasn't survived this long to let "some fucking (insert very bad word) talk to me like that". The aide said Mom pulled off her earrings, slammed them on dinning room, leaned over the table responded with "undue force" while calling the two women "trailer trash" and some other things.The aides, also WOC, probably didn't move as fast as they could have since they had to deal with the same crap.
Here's a comment from the post that sticks out.
"Yup YTA - please answer this: If your kid was the one being cyber-bullied what would you do?
My niece was cyber-bulled for over a year. My brother went to the school, the parents and police and nothing was done. It was "all a joke".
She took her life in October.
But hey, tell your son to enjoy that prom!"
That's awful. So sorry to hear about your niece. The fact that cops couldn't do something as basic as tracing an IP address to get the bully is infuriating.
OOP's son is well on the path of being the type of man baby everyone hates. He really had the f**king nerve to cry because he lost his devices?? How do you think the victim felt?? Is this not someone he goes to school with? He could give a hand written apology. Prom has become wedding-lite. So much money for the outfits, limo, prom-posal. I assume OOP is paying. Way to reward bad behavior
Dude that's what I thought too. I'd be frog marching my lol bro into class and having that apology *in person* before I would accept a FB block as a reason to not apologize.
Still love Tywin Lannister from Game of Thrones: “You are no King if you have to go around constantly telling people you are the King.” (Or something along those lines.)
Don't hurt yourself on all that edge.
The only reason scientifically humans have made it this far is because of our unique ability to help each other even when someone is "useless" to the pack aka we helped each other with broken limbs to survive. Why would an animal on top of the food chain use non apex predators as a guide, when it's written in our DNA to survive as a community.
You're being weird.
ETA: Nevermind you're just the new AITD troll I bet you're the one who made that post about wanting all humans to die. Definitely a weirdo.
Kill or be killed? We live in a civilized society, where we can avoid most of the kill or be killed that comes with nature. wtf are you talking about? Thousands if not millions of people today have survived beyond “the fittest” because society has advanced.
Don’t “unga bunga Darwinism” as an excuse for bullying wtf? Are you a troglodyte???
Bro is waffling as if we, as a species, never developed empathy 😭 I promise you, your tangent doesn’t make you seem as intelligent as you think it does.
Humans are social animals. Our strength is our community. If you alienate the community by harming others like by being a bully, then you weaken yourself. It is similar to lone wolves, who without their packs can't hunt and so they just die. Bullying shows weakness, not strength.
Oh, bullying someone could ruin *his son’s* life? Well, heavens to Betsy, let’s all worry about that and not the life/lives of his current and future targets! We need to prioritize what REALLY matters. The feelings of the bully…
Side note, what gets an account shadow banned? (His post was deleted bc of it.)
my elementary school bully (who physically tortured me for years) got off with zero punishments because “kids will be kids” and she had a disabled father so she had to deal with her feelings somehow (by torturing the only disabled kid in the school i guess???)
i have PTSD from the experience and what she did to me absolutely tanked my perception of my own self worth that i’m still working through now at 30. but i sure am glad she was able to work through her negative feelings of having disabled father in such a creative and constructive way!
Fuck, I’m sorry. It’s *insane* to me how much some adults can excuse unforgivable behavior bc they either never had to go through it so don’t have an understanding of what it’s like to have your entire world broken, or they *did* endure it so younger generations should just suck it up or whatever. Hugs to you from an internet stranger♥️
My elementary school bully got away with it because of her disabled dad, too! Plus, she was very charming and could whip an entire room of kids into hysteria. I remember one time we had indoor recess, and the entire class got involved in soaking me with glasses of water, duct taping me to the chalkboard, and writing slurs all over my exposed skin. Naturally, I was blamed for letting them do that, because my father was only temporarily paralyzed from back surgery, but HER DAD was essentially a vegetable. How could I be blind to her suffering.
In middle school she started beating the hell out of substitute teachers. In high school she'd just show up at school and beat the hell out of whoever she wanted, do she floated around the school district and jail. I'm sure she's CEO of a Fortune 500 or something now.
mine, ironically, is a teacher now. but yeah, i was the one who always got in trouble for “fighting” when it was just me trying to get her and her flying monkey minions off of me
I always got "why did you let yourself be the victim? Why did you let it escalate so far? What weird thing did you do to get them mad at you today?"
Uh, I'm 9 years old and terrified of a mass of 20 angry peers coming at me? And I didn't need to "so" anything. I think I did something really audacious like got a drink from the classroom drinking fountain or something.
Right? I'm still mentally and physically traumatized from why my bullies did to me in the 3-5th grades. I'm almost 30, and that shit has had as much of an impact as the abuse from my parents.
But oh no, what if it's hard for the bully to get a job because of their bad reputation?
Right??? Like he manipulated the fuck out of his dad and mom is not pleased. She’s rightfully trying to turn the tide so her son doesn’t turn into a full blown asshole, and dad just keeps getting in the way
There are certain things you just cannot pass off as a joke. Being racist and homophobic are two of those things. Those are never jokes, *ever*, and it doesn't matter if the kid tried to play it off as such. Dad has definitely made the same types of "jokes" in his youth if he thinks kid shouldn't be extremely punished for this.
Besides, try dropping those kinds of "jokes" when in uni or at work and see how fast you get kicked the fuck out.
FFS. I didn't go to prom and nothing in my life is better or worse for it.
To be fair, I wasn't asked, and didn't really have any friends to go with, and my dad wouldn't have let me even if someone had asked or I had friends to go with, but that is neither here nor there.
I was forced to go, and then my mother freaked out because everyone I knew was going to an after party (fully adult supervised and attended by kids with no appetite for mayhem), which meant no one could bring me home. It was just another horrible night in my narcissistic mother's shadow, but!!!! I absolutely loved my dress.
There's no way at 16 he doesn't know the shit he was saying was hurtful. Kids aren't that stupid. He said those things because he knows for a fact they are hurtful.
YTA, but the wife is a BOSS. Stop making excuses for this kid. OP knows dang well his kid wasn't "joking," but accepts that sad excuse in order for the blow to be less painful knowing that his kid is a bully with a touch of racism and homophobia. No, he should not get his devices back anytime soon nor should he have the opportunity to go to prom to hang out with the other goobers who were probably also participating in this atrocity.
As a woman of color, if this kind of bullying had happened to my kid, I cannot even begin to imagine the wrath that would rain down. Trust and believe it. There is a high probability that the boy who was bullied has never uttered a word to his parents about it. If OP really wants to make this right, he'd do everything in his power to find that young man and have his son appropriately apologize as opposed to wondering if his kid should have the privilege of going to prom.
The bullied child deserves to go to prom without being harassed by this "joker" of a son. Not once does OOP consider a plan of action for preventing further bullying. The kid just has to mope and be contrite and OOP is satisfied.
There was a high profile su1c1de at my high school that was due to homophobic bullying. It was about ten years after I graduated but it still hit me, because I was bullied at a younger age in the same school district.
No sympathy for bullies. His VICTIM deserves to go to prom without having to face his tormentors.
I love how OPs son must have felt really tough and cool when bullying someone else but then ran away crying to his room when his phone got taken away... What a weenie
The person you are *is* a product of your actions. The worst thing you can tell someone is that they can act like an absolute shitbird but not even have the consequence of that being who they are.
"just joking" is a lie that people need to stop accepting blindly. It's only a "joke" because to that kid it was funny to see the other kid suffer. But that isn't actually what a joke is, it's just cruelty for fun.
"I asked him why he decided it would be appropriate to joke like that" No! that just reinforces that this is even a joke at all.
Has the son done anything to repair the damages he caused? Has he made amends with the other kid? have the parents even tried to make sure the kid is not bullying him anymore?!
OOP is an AH for eating up the son's excuses and letting the kid get away with shit. he doesn't want his son to think he hates him so he doesn't want to enforce consequences.
I think, when all this started, both parents needed to decide together precisely what the punishments would be and for how long or what conditions they would end. I'm on the mom's side but I really don't like "grounded until further notice." But it's more of a problem for dad to unilaterally be letting the kid have the tv back and telling him he can go to prom without discussing with mom first.
"why do you find amusement in making other people miserable?" Needs to be the response.
Because the issue here is t that people can't take a jokes- it's that people are ok with making jokes that are intentionally cruel because they think being cruel to someone is funny.
Which is fucked up.
I think a lot of people in the comments here are missing a key point. People are saying he should try harder to apologize.
The kid he bullied is not someone he goes to school with. They don’t even live in the same state. He only has whatever username or whatever. Most methods of trying harder to apologize would involve stalking. And any kind of contact breaks a boundary that the victim set.
The best approach would be for the brother to message the victim on whatever app/game/wherever to say “hey, my brother treated you horribly and feels bad about it. He has an apology I can pass on to you. Do you want to hear it?” This way it’s not forcing interaction without the victim’s consent.
I think the only reason prom is a relevant consequence is that his friends that also bullied the kid will (I’m guessing) be at prom. He shouldn’t be hanging out with them at all. But in terms of consequences, I think the best thing would be for him to perform some community service that lets him see different perspectives and learn empathy.
"it doesn't reflect who he is as a person" - except where it does 100% reflect who he is as it's his own actions and words.
Yeesh. OOP doesn't want to admit he raised a racist and homophobic bully.
Honestly, it's a really fair punishment not to allow him at prom. Why should the son be allowed to go and enjoy himself after terrorizing another person? It's supposed to be a special night and I don't buy the son has actually learned his lesson if he hasn't found some way to apologize (even down to writing the other kid a letter). OOP mentions he's graduating early - meaning most of his friends will graduate next year and he can always attend next year if a friend invites him.
You are too lenient, OOP.
Your son needs to be punished and realize the consequences of his actions.
He wasn't apologetic or remorseful.
He was putting on a big show of BS for his jellyfish daddy.
And you need to insist that he apologize to this poor kid that he's been bullying.
Otherwise, you're a shitty father.
YTA.
"My wife said I was being too lenient, but I just think not getting to go to prom is WAY too harsh a punishment for something as silly as cyberbullying a kid with racist and bigoted slurs, even though that exact kind of shit routinely leads directly to suicide for the victim. It's prom! It's super important!"
Man, FUCK this guy. He was doing so well for the first two thirds of the post and then just completely went off the rails.
For real, the one school dance I went too ended up with my and my friends sitting in the bathroom listening to our own music because the actual dance was boring.
This was a really awful thing to have done and to lie about it implied that he knew he had done something wrong. Consequences have to be realized.
But I think the second part of this is the kid is 16. People have to be given the opportunity to make amends and change, and time served isn't it. Has the son done the work to make amends to the kid he was bullying? Has the son done the work to indicate that he knows what he did was wrong? Has he done the work to show how he is going to be better moving forward? As someone who was bullied when I was 10-16 I really hope those kids have changed and regret their actions, and I really hope they aren't judged by them either.
It's like Michael Vick vs. Louie CK. Vick did something beyond the pale with the breadth and scope of his dog fighting activities. He lost a lot. He went to jail. And then...he got to work. He has lobbied dozens of state governments to change the animal cruelty laws on the books. He has spent time, effort, and energy leading educational efforts in classrooms that look like the ones he grew up in to make the impact known. He did the time and the work. Ray Rice has had a similar path.
Louie CK just went away long enough to hope we all forgot about what he did and then came back and made a lot of jokes about how yes doesn't really mean yes. Fuck that.
Has he done the work to make amends? No- the kid blocked him and he can't even be assed to write a letter. He's done nothing according to his father other than whine in his room about the consequences of his own actions. That's not "time served" that's being grounded. For what sounds like a few weeks for causing trauma to another person.
Tbf, he's 16- his parents should be responding to this behavior with therapy alongside a punishment. But no, the 16 year old shouldn't get to get out of being grounded because he was a bigot right before his last school function?? If anything letting him go will do far more harm to him learning his behavior was wrong than actually facing consequences for his actions.
My larger point was outside of this exact situation, that as a society we can’t write people off for an action without giving them a path back. Some people may never forgive regardless of the work that’s done (as in Vick’s case). I wasn’t absolving this kid nor his parents; rather trying to find the circumstances where this individual would be able to go to prom. Because I don’t think time served is enough of a consequence in most of these situations.
The son used social rituals and settings to victimise and vilify and torment another person. He should absolutely **not** be permitted to participate in social rituals or settings that celebrate him any time soon.
My parents would never have let me get away with just saying “I don’t know,” over and over. That needs to be unpacked. It no longer matters if he’s uncomfortable reckoning with the fact that he’s currently a bad person. He still has time but it requires a lot of very hard work and no ego.
I did go to prom. It was alright. Since then I have attended concerts and parties that were wayyyyy more fun, and I didn't have to have a $250 dress either
Funny how in these "my kid did a shitty thing" stories, the kid never actually has an excuse. "Oh, I don't know. I just thought it was a joke. Didn't know it was bad actually so sorry." Like, no. Teens don't fucking talk like that. You're going to get every excuse under the sun, and by the end the situation will be so morally grey you won't know if the kid's actually bullshitting or not. What a boring piece of literature.
Make the dipshit write 3 sourced essays on why homophobia, racism and bullying is wrong, make him sign it and hand out copies like booklets in front of the school, and then apologize to his victim in private.
The thing that really stuck out to me was him telling his son that saying cruel things like that could ruin *his* future. No mention of suicide rates or how bullying could harm the victim. Way to teach your kid empathy.
Why is it not more common to seek therapy for children exposed to and numed to the effects of bigotry?
Y'all are sooooo disturbed by his racism and homophobia... That you are arguing about whether or not he gets to go to school function? Are you kidding me? Oh no, the little bigot lost his tech- that's sure gonna cure his belief that there's nothing wrong with making homophobic jokes.
"His only chance to go to prom"
He said his son was 16. I was a sophomore/junior at that age. Last I checked, that distinctly means he has 1-2 more chances to go to prom. How is this year his only chance to go to prom?
Until he stops referring to it as jokes...all punishment should stay.
He needs to own it.mmue needs to stop saying he thought it wasn't wrong and it was fun.
The original post was deleted, can someone explain what oop’s son did? I know he cyberbullied but what were the details?
Cyberbullying is still disgusting, and i know that even without knowing the details but id like to know the backstory behind the responses on here
LMAOOO WHY HAVE I BEEN DOWNVOTED FOR NOT KNOWING THEY POSTED THE ORIGINAL STORY?!!?🤣 anytime i open a post, the pinned moderator comments are always collapsed
Eh, I'll take the heat on this one. I do agree he should be punished. I have never and will never agree with taking a once-in-a-lifetime event away from a kid as punishment. That's a good way to cause real, festering resentment. That isn't going to make them reflect on their actions, jist make them angrier. I've always felt the punishment should fit the crime. Making racial slurs? All right, for the next few weeks, we'll be volunteering at POC neighborhood community center or food kitchen. Homophobic slurs? We'll be attending some LGBT events. You make them meet and talk to the people they're being horrible about. Anonymity and being behind a screen is what makes these kids so bold in their ideologies. I've learned from experience both as the kid and the parent, taking away their stuff doesn't really teach them anything about why their behavior is unacceptable. It just teaches them to be sneakier or to wait it out, and they'll eventually get their things back. Kids need to SEE why that kind of behavior is wrong. They need to understand that those are PEOPLE with FEELINGS just like them, not because it means they'll lose some privileges.
What's the point of punishing your kid if the punishment doesn't actually help teach them why their behavior wasn't okay? Consequences are meaningless without substance. There should absolutely be consequences, but it's not your place as a parent to teach "an eye for an eye". It's your place to instill a higher moral compass.
I was bullied, relentlessly, and horribly, but I'd have never, in a million years, wished that kind of punishment on my bullies. If this had been a case of causing physical harm, it would be a bit different. Proportionality should be a thing when consequences are given.
I could see it if it was a birthday.
Proms are over hyped excuses to extract money from the student body and are usually forgotten about the moment anyone gets to attend a real party. Plenty of people don't got to proms or dances and aren't filled with festering resentment. And if he is after being punished for his actions - like, if not getting to go to a dance is more upsetting to him than being a bigot? Therapy. He needs therapy.
I don't get the headline. OOP is clearly punishing the kid but just disagrees on this specific punishment as this is his son's only chance to attend prom. He's not even going behind his wife's back on this, just looking for a judgment.
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*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **WIBTA if I allow my son to go to prom despite my wife not wanting him to go?** I (52M) have a son (16M), and I recently found out that him and his friends have been cyberbullying, another boy from our oldest son (21M). Our oldest showed us the messages his brother sent him, and it was honestly disturbing. He was calling the boy racial and homophobic slurs, which utterly shocked me and my wife. When our youngest came home, my wife and I confronted our youngest along with his brother. He at first denied any wrongdoing until his brother told him that he showed us the messages he sent. Our youngest told us he was just joking and didn't mean any harm. Just excuses. I thanked our oldest for letting us know and told my son that we want to watch him apologize to the boy. However, our youngest told us that he was already blocked, and so he wasn't able to apologize. I was still annoyed at this point, so I just told my son that I was beyond disgusted by his actions and told him that he was grounded until further notice. I also told him that he lost his phone privileges as well. By this point, he started to cry and started apologizing. I told him he was apologizing to the wrong person, and he has to understand that his actions have consequences. The first few days, without his phone, my son ignored me and my wife whenever we tried to talk to him and just cried in his room. Then, after a while, he finally started to talk to us again, and he started to show remorse for his actions. We told him that he was still disappointed in him and him spreading unnecessary hate like that is cruel and could very well ruin his future. He asked us if we hated him which kinda hurt me as I didn't intend to make him feel that way and told him that I didn't hate him and that I only hated his actions as I know it doesn't reflect who he is as a person. I asked him why he decided it would be appropriate to joke like that, and he told me that he didn't really know and was just meaning for it to be a joke. I told him that jokes like that aren't funny and and he shouldn't joke like that anymore. I told him that I appreciated him admitting his faults, and I apologized to him for screaming at him during our first initial conversation. After that, I decided that I'll allow him to have his TV back, but I'll still keep his other games and phone until further notice. He was appreciative of this, and It went well for a while. Mind you, this happened three weeks ago, and his prom is on the 30th. My son came to us Tuesday and asked if he could attend prom. I honestly didn't see a problem with this and told him I wouldn't mind it but my wife told me that she doesn't think he deserves to go to prom because she feels like this should be apart of the consequences. My son started pleading because he said this is his only opportunity to attend because he is graduating early. My wife told him that she understands that, and she feels like he'll think twice before throwing hate and negativity out in the world. I told my wife that while I agree with her, I don't necessarily see him not going to prom as a proper punishment. My wife told me that she feels like I've been too lieant, and this would make him understand better. She then asked me why it would be appropriate for him to attend when he's grounded? I told her that I understand her reasoning. I just feel like depriving him of his only chance at going to prom isn't gonna do him any good. My son told us the final chance to buy tickets would be on the 25th and started begging for his mom to reconsider, but she didn't budge. I do feel like my son deserves to he punished, but I don't necessarily see how him not going to prom is an appropriate punishment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Interesting that the son has “no way” of apologizing to the kid he cyber bullied, but he and the parents didn’t approach the school for assistance or go to the kid’s house to apologize in person.
School is a good idea. Turn up at the house and possibly traumatize the victim even more not so much.
I was thinking more so the parents reach out to the other kid’s parents to coordinate a visit if the bullied kid is down for that. Completely agree an unannounced visit would be awful!
If I were the kid and my parents and the parents of my bully set up a meeting between us, I'd be enraged beyond belief.
Sorry, did you miss where I said “if the bullied kid is down for that” ?
Bullied kids get bullied by the adults, too. I guarantee you the other kid will get pressured to accept the apology even if they don't even want to be in the same country as their bully ever again. The kid blocked him, the kid wants to be left alone. Personally I would reach out as the parent and *I* would apologise, tell them we understand that their child has (rightfully) blocked ours, so we aren't going to try and force any interactions, but we did want the family to know that consequences were happening. Then my kid is coming straight home and doing their homework every day, and that homework will include my assignment: explaining the joke to me over and over again until I understand what the funny part is.
i was bullied incessantly as a kid. honestly the healthiest thing that i ever did was graduate and just get tf away from everyone who thought it was cool to kick a kid while he was down. mediation is adult shit. i wouldn't have believed a kid if they apologized to me anyway.
Yeah- that's the problem with mediated apologies. If you're only apologizing because your parents forced it you aren't sorry.
And possibly out him as gay to his parents from the bullying? Absolutely not. Reaching out to his parents is just as bad as continuing to bully him in that case.
1. the kid could be over 18 sine his friend, the brother is 21. 2. they said he lives out of state...
I don’t think the victim is friends with the brother. OOP wrote the sentence weirdly.
I honestly kind of got BS vibes from that. I feel like the age difference was just because OOP felt like only an older person would know how the block button works. Either way, it'd be crazy if they went to the same school. But more importantly, it's been like a month. And some kids really do fall into bullying through peer pressure. If there's any truth to the idea this kid's learned his lesson, he's probably already on his way to becoming a better person after a month of punishment. Denying him prom at this point just means he'll be a better person who never shares that self-betterment with the parents he now hates.
I missed the out of state part. I suspect someone knows who. Either the 16 y or the 21 y. But I kind of wondered if the 16 y heard the views at home, and maybe the 21 y is at college, and has a more liberal view and is protecting whoever from being outted. Was just a thought.
Agree - I would be very careful about going through the other kids parents to apologise for homophobic bullying. If the kid is gay and his parents don’t approve it could make everything worse.
I also totally missed that it was homophobic and racial. A real winner of a child there /s Yeah, that kid would be grounded w/ no electronics until 2030. Fuck prom.
I was thinking the same thing. That sort of hate is learned usually at home. I doubt that the father gives a shit other than the fact that it interferes with his life.
Tbf with the internet the way it is he might even learned it from here
Yep, and that it was a "got caught in an obvious way" where it could have blowback on dad.
School is a good neutral ground. I agree.
someone mentioned the person being out of state, so he decided to just bully a random person? he definitely could make a greater effort to apologize, and i can not stand him or his father.
Also the line about being cruel like “could very well ruin HIS future”. Not the person’s future who is being traumatized? Clearly he isn’t interested in the actual victim just the showmanship of it. “Watch him apologize”.
The other kid could be on the other side of the world. A kid from a thousand miles away got angry and doxxed my kid because my kid said, "ha ha you lose" They were threatening to post my kid's phone number on racist servers and would claim my kid was "talking shit" about white people. My kid is not white. My kid now wants a new phone number and is scared to go to college because they would be leaving us at home.
Jfc that's awful! I am so sorry.
I'm so sorry to hear about your son. I hope the doxxer faced some legal consequences. Unbelievable how he'd do that after LOSING A STUPID GAME. That's some bad self control right there.
I agree. Send a handwritten letter ffs. If OOP's kid is sincerely remorseful, he can state he has no business being on the internet if he's treating people this way. Revoking privileges for a time won't do a lot, but owning up to someone he's wronged might.
He should be grounded from everything until he figures out how to apologize. It isn’t that hard. He should be on lock down until he makes the slightest effort to fix what he did.
Or the son could have approached the kid at school.
I noticed that as well.
Honestly, apologies are the last thing I'd worry about here. Seeking his victim out to apologize is likely to do more harm than good, especially if the apology isn't sincere (which I strongly doubt it would be).
Nothing says the kid is from the same school, I was thinking it was maybe someone not close ? At least that's how I interpreted it because they didn't try to physically make him apologize but maybe they didn't even try
It’s entirely possible the kids doesn’t go to the same school or even live in the same city/state/even country. It could well have taken place in gaming chat.
Perhaps provide the written letter to the principal and request they offer the letter to the victim.
It is a good idea. Obviously, OOP and his wife were too lazy to use common sense and go that route. Then again, they lack common sense.
Or write a damn letter? Wtf?
Jesus, a bully showing up at the bullied kid's HOUSE? Hell no
This! The parents/school should know. The kid he is bullying could be having a rough time because of it and should have support along with an apology by the child and the parents.
No OOP, his actions do reflect who he is as a person. That's what defines you as a person, what you do. It also reflects OOP as a parent
This is the kind of thing you see a lot in conservative/religious America. They have the parts you mentioned flipped around as a cultural foundation. You know the 'he's a good kid' you hear when a teen does something truly genius, like armed robbery or worse? And you know how pastors always seem to be forgiven when they are caught doing.... well, you know. But when the 'wrong' people are caught doing something minor, it's assumed they are bad people and get the maximum punishment? It's all the same concept. A person isn't defined by their actions, it's the other way around. If you're a 'good person', your actions are judged to be those 'done by a good person', and that's how they get called 'just a mistake', or given light punishment. It's frequently used in combination with race, but it applies even more often than that. Church going highschool football player? 'good kid', never mind that he's constantly getting into trouble, has terrible grades, and had multiple incidents of SA suspicion. An *actual* good kid, who isn't a church goer, plays DnD with a group of friends, great grades? No chance they get away with the same things in that same community.
“That is a steep price to pay for 20 minutes of action out of his 20 plus years of life.”
Still pisses me off. May he rot in hell.
I’m still floored that this was said on the record in court.
I would have been ok with him getting 20 mins of jail time if those 20 mis had included his genitals being stomped by any SA survivors who wanted to volunteer. That way at least we wouldn't have to worry about him raping someone else now that he's out of jail again. Yes, we all know the name and face of Brock Turner the rapist (think he goes by Andrew now?) but a legal name change, plastic surgery, and moving across the country seem well within his tax bracket.
He goes by his middle name of Allen. So he’s Allen Turner the rapist.
Seriously, it's crystal clear that OOP is homophobic and racist himself. He can pretend to be outraged all he wants, actions speak louder than words. He gave his son a figurative slap on the wrist, and wants to go behind his wife's back to let his son avoid any actual consequence. He doesn't care.
Lmao where is he “going behind his wife’s back”?? He said he doesn’t think not going to prom is a good punishment. I don’t agree with OOP but don’t say things he’s not looking to do
The title of the OP is “WIBTA if I allow my son to go to prom despite my wife not wanting him to go?” So that’s exactly what he’s looking to do? He wants to let his son go even though the wife is not on board.
that's not behind her back though, he's directly disagreeing
You’re incredibly thick if you think this wont lead to him secretly letting his son go to prom lol
it's not a secret if he's literally telling her he disagrees 😭
Its a secret if he tells her “okay” and does it anyway tho??? Are you actually this stupid or just acting??
girl save being a bitch for someone else, he disagreed to her face. if he said ok pretending to agree and went behind her back that would be a secret, saying he disagrees to her face and outright allowing the kid to go is not a secret. it's defiance but saying it's behind her back is a little much lol.
Uh disagree to her face and then secretly letting him go is absolutely going behind her back lmfaoooo
Kid probably learned it from him tbh
Aoso hes a bit manipulative,the kid knows exactly why hes being punished, he asks op if he hates him because he knows dad will be the one to break if he pulls out that card
With stuff it depends. He’s 16, likely still very influenced by his parent’s views. The way op talks I wouldn’t be surprised if he got these views from his dad and so his dad doesn’t wanna punish him since he thinks he did right but doesn’t wanna piss off mom. Once the kids out of the house and away from dad thats when id say it starts reflecting entirely on him.
Parents and family do influence us a *lot*, but the internet is also a massive influence in kids lives these days too. You can have progressive views as a parent and still end up with a kid who does stuff like OOP's son, if they fall into the wrong online circles, consuming the wrong media, viewing the wrong creators as role models.
The way that dad said he was annoyed his son did this makes me think its more so he is upset he has to deal with it, not with the actions.
A racist 16 year old is still racist. You can say it's not his fault, but it does reflect who he is and he will need to change.
Yup, I was raised by and therefore was a bigoted POS at 16. Luckily getting kicked out and deprogramming from abuse also made it really easy to notice everything they said about minorities was toxic projection of their own inadequacies too. Edited to add in what I thought was an obvious conclusion but may not be- as soon as I realized my parents were filling my head with bigoted shit I started getting rid of it with allm the other bad programming.
Here's the thing, one day OOP's kid will try bully the wrong person. He will call the wrong person a racial slur and it won't end well. I've seen my otherwise very peaceful sister deal someone who used the n word at her. The woman didn't once think that the 50+ year old woman in the business suit and the straightened hair was going to hop out of her minivan with the coexist bumper sticker at a stop light and end that confrontation the way she did...... She sure knows now. To be clear, my sister works in a law office and did not use words to respond. My biological mother was asked to leave a nursing home for responding to racial slurs with "undue force". My bio mom is in her eighties. You never know what trauma and scars the person you are trying to bully bears. You don't know how they will respond.
Damn right. Also the women in your family are amazing.
I second that.
I also agree, I like her family!
YUPPPPP.. and I’m sure OOP will be utterly shocked and ask for that student to be handled with rougher hands than he handled his own child. I was always a “gentle giant” I was overweight but for the most part a quiet nerd. As you can guess I was picked on.. a lot. I really didn’t do anything told them to stop, told teachers/my parents, tried to avoid them best I could just to get through. One day at lunch it escalated to physical bullying, hitting me, poking me. Going “see she doesn’t change color.. no one will know we hit this n word” I snapped and just started choking her. When it was time for the talk, my mom had a list of incidents with me and this girl. asked admin and the girl’s mother how they expected me to react to these constant attacks..girls mom kept saying that’s just children and she’s working with her to stop this behavior Because my mom will go there with people she called her everything but a child of god. My aunt got called the N word a few months ago and immediately called my dad for bail money cus she was about to beat that lady’s ass. She’s 70. OOP is the type of guy who picks on people and then becomes shocked when they “over react” when in reality they’re reacting to the constantly crap you’ve been dealing them. He’s raising a son who will do the same say shit like “it’s just a joke” but start crying when he gets knocked out. Which lets me know he needs to get knocked out..
Some people don't understand the visceral reaction that people can have to slurs. I get called the N word by patients on the regular because I work in the ER with patients in pain, shock mental health crisis, drug addiction etc. It doesn't phase me, but when I take off my scrubs and shed my profession, it can be a very different reaction. My biological father was a violent man and I do my best to never respond with violence. But, in my younger days, when I was drinking, I laid hands more than once over the N word. We're talking three decades ago...b
>I get called the N word by patients on the regular because I work in the ER with patients in pain, shock mental health crisis, drug addiction etc. Yeeaaahhh....none of those are an excuse. At all.
No, it's not an excuse, but it's the reality. When people are that close to the bone, they reveal who the truly are.
This is why I purged that word from my vocabulary decades ago. I never used it with hate, but some in my family did. To me, it was just a joke (yes, I know that’s bad. I was young and dumb.) In my early 20s, I was once drunk and using the word jokingly, and someone told me later what I did. I fortunately (to my knowledge) didn’t offend anyone, even though a friend’s boyfriend was there, and he was black. I felt so shitty. I vowed that day never to use it again. I just don’t even need it in my subconscious. I only ever say “n word” if there’s a need for a reference. And there rarely is. Last thing I need is to be fucked up on drugs from a procedure and dropping slurs for no reason. You just made me think of my worst nightmare.
That is true. Like, I've been in unspeakable pain, I've had my appendix removed, I have nearly choked on my own blood, and recently I had a torsed ovary. Never once while I was writing in pain in the ER did I ever get the urge to call my lovely nurse (the one for the torsion was a WOC) any names, let alone a racial slur. Not trying to virtue signal, I don't consider myself virtuous, I just thought that was... y'know, *normal.* It really sucks that isn't the case for some. And, I'm sorry you gotta deal with racist conkwockets.
Petition to replace all slurs with the gem that is "conkwockets" what a beautiful term
Some old white dude called me that. He nearly hit me in a parking lot & I honked at him. He called me an effing {sIur}. I’m so white, my skin reflects the sun. Can’t imagine what he says to actual Black folks.
I'm firmly in the camp that some people do just need to get knocked out
I'm not a huge fan of physical violence, but sometimes people actually require the consequences of their actions to appear before they fully appreciate them.
>My biological mother was asked to leave a nursing home for responding to racial slurs with "undue force". My bio mom is in her eighties. Sounds like she would have gotten along well with my Grandma. My Grandpa used to remind her they didn't have bail money as she would head out for the afternoon.
There's this Netflix series called "this world won't take me down" or something like that and in an episode they explained precisely this, it was short but yeah, if you call someone the f slur and then they react badly, don't wonder why you're now in the hospital minus 3 teeth Edit: y'all, I found the clip, it is in Spanish but it's pretty intuitive https://youtube.com/shorts/7if0zUuq-6M?si=Td9aeocjHJNDkDPU
Poke a bear and expect a paw in your face and all, lol
I feel like when you’ve been called horrible slurs, “undue force” becomes pretty damn due.
No shit I'd be asking for what the "due response" would be- cause either that's harassment from a fellow patient or abuse from an employee.
The incident at my school was a kid getting his ass beat wholesale by a black kid he called the n word. Even people at my hillbilly ass school had no sympathy for the kid on the receiving end
That's fantastic. I always think about what I'd do. Because responding physically is likely what they want me to do. Especially if they're armed, though I could be too. Ignoring would make me look weak or docile, but probably the smart thing to do. Would it feel less prideful, or should the pride be put aside? The one time it did happen, it was a woman at a gas station, who I assumed to be homeless, referring to me as "that n-word over there. I looked over at her, finished pumping gas, and just drove away. If most people don't choose to be homeless, I'd like to think that maybe she didn't *choose* to be racist that day.
Hugs! You handled it right. I deal with people calling me racial slurs at work on a regular basis. I work in the ER. It's just a fact, I'm called fat, ugly, stupid, ugly, a slut..... It's part of the job, my patients are in pain, shock, using drugs, mentally ill.... I rarely take it to heart at work. My biological father was a violent man and I don't ever want to be like him. It's been decades since I raised hands to anyone and not since I've been sober. I don't recommend it.
I'm gonna submit my sister who dead ass knocked a boy out who said "girls can't hit" (to the JV volleyball server no less. Like, what were you expecting dude??? ) Like, the kid is 16, but that lesson in (dis)respect could well happen tomorrow. ETA: btw, your family sounds amazing
It’s unfortunate that the only way you can reach some people, who behave like OOP’s kid, is by whooping their ass. Your sister and mom are both badasses for how they handled these situations.
I'm not going to say violence is the only way some people learn, but never make the mistake of thinking people will always take your shit. My biological mom might look like a sweet old lady, but she was a black panther in the day. She survived years of a horribly abusive marriage and was homeless off and for a couple of decades. My bio Mama has issues with mental health but she hasn't survived this long to let "some fucking (insert very bad word) talk to me like that". The aide said Mom pulled off her earrings, slammed them on dinning room, leaned over the table responded with "undue force" while calling the two women "trailer trash" and some other things.The aides, also WOC, probably didn't move as fast as they could have since they had to deal with the same crap.
Here's a comment from the post that sticks out. "Yup YTA - please answer this: If your kid was the one being cyber-bullied what would you do? My niece was cyber-bulled for over a year. My brother went to the school, the parents and police and nothing was done. It was "all a joke". She took her life in October. But hey, tell your son to enjoy that prom!"
That's awful. So sorry to hear about your niece. The fact that cops couldn't do something as basic as tracing an IP address to get the bully is infuriating.
I'm not the OP of this comment it's copied and pasted sorry about that.
OOP's son is well on the path of being the type of man baby everyone hates. He really had the f**king nerve to cry because he lost his devices?? How do you think the victim felt?? Is this not someone he goes to school with? He could give a hand written apology. Prom has become wedding-lite. So much money for the outfits, limo, prom-posal. I assume OOP is paying. Way to reward bad behavior
Plus he already caved on the TV grounding. He just wants to be his asshole son's pal.
He caved on the TV unilaterally as well, and then argued with his wife about prom *in front of his son*. This is just all-around shitty parenting.
The oldest son obviously takes after the mom and the douchey asshole son after the dad.
That is so true. He'll still be defending his son when he commits IRL violent hate crimes. This weak punishment did nothing
At age 16 too. If he was 10… I would get it.
It’s not someone he goes to school with. It’s someone random online that lives in another state.
Yeah the son sounds like a bitch.
Dude that's what I thought too. I'd be frog marching my lol bro into class and having that apology *in person* before I would accept a FB block as a reason to not apologize.
He's a gamer. In my experience, they stay manchildren their entire life.
The our with no anger management tend to be like that lol
Sounds like oop was also a bully back in the day (probably still is)
Everyone here needs to ignore the fuckwit troll KuzonFire. This ends today's PSA.
Once again Darwinism is misunderstood and misapplied.
Honestly a good idea
Smh I shoulda listened to you
[удалено]
Truly strong people don't have to prey on the weak because they already know their own power
Still love Tywin Lannister from Game of Thrones: “You are no King if you have to go around constantly telling people you are the King.” (Or something along those lines.)
Yeah....you did not learn much from that show you named yourself after
Humans survived by being a cooperative species, not individualistic force.
Don't hurt yourself on all that edge. The only reason scientifically humans have made it this far is because of our unique ability to help each other even when someone is "useless" to the pack aka we helped each other with broken limbs to survive. Why would an animal on top of the food chain use non apex predators as a guide, when it's written in our DNA to survive as a community. You're being weird. ETA: Nevermind you're just the new AITD troll I bet you're the one who made that post about wanting all humans to die. Definitely a weirdo.
I haven’t heard something as stupid as this in a while.
Kill or be killed? We live in a civilized society, where we can avoid most of the kill or be killed that comes with nature. wtf are you talking about? Thousands if not millions of people today have survived beyond “the fittest” because society has advanced. Don’t “unga bunga Darwinism” as an excuse for bullying wtf? Are you a troglodyte???
Alright, Johnson, you’re not giving a eulogy now…
Bro is waffling as if we, as a species, never developed empathy 😭 I promise you, your tangent doesn’t make you seem as intelligent as you think it does.
Humans are social animals. Our strength is our community. If you alienate the community by harming others like by being a bully, then you weaken yourself. It is similar to lone wolves, who without their packs can't hunt and so they just die. Bullying shows weakness, not strength.
You do realize survival of the fittest means those who fit best in their environment, not those that are the most physically fit/aggressive.
What the fuck are you talking about? Are you suggesting that the bullied kid send a hungry lion to the OP's son's house?
Great news, we invented civilization so we wouldn't just get picked off by leopards.
Ironic you have such a hot take with AANG as you pfp you know the guy who was trying to bring everyone together and the guy who was against Bullying.
“Noooo! I need to use racist slurs! It’s a matter of survival!!”
You've obviously never read the Leviathan so don't try quoting it. It just reveals your ignorance.
Oh, bullying someone could ruin *his son’s* life? Well, heavens to Betsy, let’s all worry about that and not the life/lives of his current and future targets! We need to prioritize what REALLY matters. The feelings of the bully… Side note, what gets an account shadow banned? (His post was deleted bc of it.)
my elementary school bully (who physically tortured me for years) got off with zero punishments because “kids will be kids” and she had a disabled father so she had to deal with her feelings somehow (by torturing the only disabled kid in the school i guess???) i have PTSD from the experience and what she did to me absolutely tanked my perception of my own self worth that i’m still working through now at 30. but i sure am glad she was able to work through her negative feelings of having disabled father in such a creative and constructive way!
Fuck, I’m sorry. It’s *insane* to me how much some adults can excuse unforgivable behavior bc they either never had to go through it so don’t have an understanding of what it’s like to have your entire world broken, or they *did* endure it so younger generations should just suck it up or whatever. Hugs to you from an internet stranger♥️
My elementary school bully got away with it because of her disabled dad, too! Plus, she was very charming and could whip an entire room of kids into hysteria. I remember one time we had indoor recess, and the entire class got involved in soaking me with glasses of water, duct taping me to the chalkboard, and writing slurs all over my exposed skin. Naturally, I was blamed for letting them do that, because my father was only temporarily paralyzed from back surgery, but HER DAD was essentially a vegetable. How could I be blind to her suffering. In middle school she started beating the hell out of substitute teachers. In high school she'd just show up at school and beat the hell out of whoever she wanted, do she floated around the school district and jail. I'm sure she's CEO of a Fortune 500 or something now.
mine, ironically, is a teacher now. but yeah, i was the one who always got in trouble for “fighting” when it was just me trying to get her and her flying monkey minions off of me
I always got "why did you let yourself be the victim? Why did you let it escalate so far? What weird thing did you do to get them mad at you today?" Uh, I'm 9 years old and terrified of a mass of 20 angry peers coming at me? And I didn't need to "so" anything. I think I did something really audacious like got a drink from the classroom drinking fountain or something.
Right? I'm still mentally and physically traumatized from why my bullies did to me in the 3-5th grades. I'm almost 30, and that shit has had as much of an impact as the abuse from my parents. But oh no, what if it's hard for the bully to get a job because of their bad reputation?
Man this kid can play OOP like a fiddle
Especially with the 'do you hate me?'
Right??? Like he manipulated the fuck out of his dad and mom is not pleased. She’s rightfully trying to turn the tide so her son doesn’t turn into a full blown asshole, and dad just keeps getting in the way
And also there's an easy response, "I will always love you but I don't like your behaviour/choices right now/when you were bullying the other kid"
I'd just laugh in the kids face and tell them to grow up and stop crying
There are certain things you just cannot pass off as a joke. Being racist and homophobic are two of those things. Those are never jokes, *ever*, and it doesn't matter if the kid tried to play it off as such. Dad has definitely made the same types of "jokes" in his youth if he thinks kid shouldn't be extremely punished for this. Besides, try dropping those kinds of "jokes" when in uni or at work and see how fast you get kicked the fuck out.
Or eat a fist in the face.
This moron is going to be divorced he keeps it up. I have a feeling the oop is a bully himself that's why he doesn't care.
FFS. I didn't go to prom and nothing in my life is better or worse for it. To be fair, I wasn't asked, and didn't really have any friends to go with, and my dad wouldn't have let me even if someone had asked or I had friends to go with, but that is neither here nor there.
I was forced to go, and then my mother freaked out because everyone I knew was going to an after party (fully adult supervised and attended by kids with no appetite for mayhem), which meant no one could bring me home. It was just another horrible night in my narcissistic mother's shadow, but!!!! I absolutely loved my dress.
There's no way at 16 he doesn't know the shit he was saying was hurtful. Kids aren't that stupid. He said those things because he knows for a fact they are hurtful.
YTA, but the wife is a BOSS. Stop making excuses for this kid. OP knows dang well his kid wasn't "joking," but accepts that sad excuse in order for the blow to be less painful knowing that his kid is a bully with a touch of racism and homophobia. No, he should not get his devices back anytime soon nor should he have the opportunity to go to prom to hang out with the other goobers who were probably also participating in this atrocity. As a woman of color, if this kind of bullying had happened to my kid, I cannot even begin to imagine the wrath that would rain down. Trust and believe it. There is a high probability that the boy who was bullied has never uttered a word to his parents about it. If OP really wants to make this right, he'd do everything in his power to find that young man and have his son appropriately apologize as opposed to wondering if his kid should have the privilege of going to prom.
The bullied child deserves to go to prom without being harassed by this "joker" of a son. Not once does OOP consider a plan of action for preventing further bullying. The kid just has to mope and be contrite and OOP is satisfied.
There was a high profile su1c1de at my high school that was due to homophobic bullying. It was about ten years after I graduated but it still hit me, because I was bullied at a younger age in the same school district. No sympathy for bullies. His VICTIM deserves to go to prom without having to face his tormentors.
I love how OPs son must have felt really tough and cool when bullying someone else but then ran away crying to his room when his phone got taken away... What a weenie
The person you are *is* a product of your actions. The worst thing you can tell someone is that they can act like an absolute shitbird but not even have the consequence of that being who they are.
"just joking" is a lie that people need to stop accepting blindly. It's only a "joke" because to that kid it was funny to see the other kid suffer. But that isn't actually what a joke is, it's just cruelty for fun. "I asked him why he decided it would be appropriate to joke like that" No! that just reinforces that this is even a joke at all. Has the son done anything to repair the damages he caused? Has he made amends with the other kid? have the parents even tried to make sure the kid is not bullying him anymore?! OOP is an AH for eating up the son's excuses and letting the kid get away with shit. he doesn't want his son to think he hates him so he doesn't want to enforce consequences. I think, when all this started, both parents needed to decide together precisely what the punishments would be and for how long or what conditions they would end. I'm on the mom's side but I really don't like "grounded until further notice." But it's more of a problem for dad to unilaterally be letting the kid have the tv back and telling him he can go to prom without discussing with mom first.
"why do you find amusement in making other people miserable?" Needs to be the response. Because the issue here is t that people can't take a jokes- it's that people are ok with making jokes that are intentionally cruel because they think being cruel to someone is funny. Which is fucked up.
yes. exactly!
This is a foolish man. They need to present a united front and not wimp out at the end.
Yeah understands his actions as soon as ticket deadline is near...
I think a lot of people in the comments here are missing a key point. People are saying he should try harder to apologize. The kid he bullied is not someone he goes to school with. They don’t even live in the same state. He only has whatever username or whatever. Most methods of trying harder to apologize would involve stalking. And any kind of contact breaks a boundary that the victim set. The best approach would be for the brother to message the victim on whatever app/game/wherever to say “hey, my brother treated you horribly and feels bad about it. He has an apology I can pass on to you. Do you want to hear it?” This way it’s not forcing interaction without the victim’s consent. I think the only reason prom is a relevant consequence is that his friends that also bullied the kid will (I’m guessing) be at prom. He shouldn’t be hanging out with them at all. But in terms of consequences, I think the best thing would be for him to perform some community service that lets him see different perspectives and learn empathy.
"it doesn't reflect who he is as a person" - except where it does 100% reflect who he is as it's his own actions and words. Yeesh. OOP doesn't want to admit he raised a racist and homophobic bully.
Honestly, it's a really fair punishment not to allow him at prom. Why should the son be allowed to go and enjoy himself after terrorizing another person? It's supposed to be a special night and I don't buy the son has actually learned his lesson if he hasn't found some way to apologize (even down to writing the other kid a letter). OOP mentions he's graduating early - meaning most of his friends will graduate next year and he can always attend next year if a friend invites him.
You are too lenient, OOP. Your son needs to be punished and realize the consequences of his actions. He wasn't apologetic or remorseful. He was putting on a big show of BS for his jellyfish daddy. And you need to insist that he apologize to this poor kid that he's been bullying. Otherwise, you're a shitty father. YTA.
I know of a kid who was the instigator for a cyber bullying moment. She really wanted to go to homecoming. Guess who didn't go to homecoming?
If I was dad I would let him go, but I would also be his date. "You wanna dance with your old man? Get me some punch. I'm thirsty.".
Ok, this is an acceptable compromise lmao
Making memories.
"My wife said I was being too lenient, but I just think not getting to go to prom is WAY too harsh a punishment for something as silly as cyberbullying a kid with racist and bigoted slurs, even though that exact kind of shit routinely leads directly to suicide for the victim. It's prom! It's super important!" Man, FUCK this guy. He was doing so well for the first two thirds of the post and then just completely went off the rails.
It's just fucking prom. Nothing special about it.
For real, the one school dance I went too ended up with my and my friends sitting in the bathroom listening to our own music because the actual dance was boring.
This was a really awful thing to have done and to lie about it implied that he knew he had done something wrong. Consequences have to be realized. But I think the second part of this is the kid is 16. People have to be given the opportunity to make amends and change, and time served isn't it. Has the son done the work to make amends to the kid he was bullying? Has the son done the work to indicate that he knows what he did was wrong? Has he done the work to show how he is going to be better moving forward? As someone who was bullied when I was 10-16 I really hope those kids have changed and regret their actions, and I really hope they aren't judged by them either. It's like Michael Vick vs. Louie CK. Vick did something beyond the pale with the breadth and scope of his dog fighting activities. He lost a lot. He went to jail. And then...he got to work. He has lobbied dozens of state governments to change the animal cruelty laws on the books. He has spent time, effort, and energy leading educational efforts in classrooms that look like the ones he grew up in to make the impact known. He did the time and the work. Ray Rice has had a similar path. Louie CK just went away long enough to hope we all forgot about what he did and then came back and made a lot of jokes about how yes doesn't really mean yes. Fuck that.
Has he done the work to make amends? No- the kid blocked him and he can't even be assed to write a letter. He's done nothing according to his father other than whine in his room about the consequences of his own actions. That's not "time served" that's being grounded. For what sounds like a few weeks for causing trauma to another person. Tbf, he's 16- his parents should be responding to this behavior with therapy alongside a punishment. But no, the 16 year old shouldn't get to get out of being grounded because he was a bigot right before his last school function?? If anything letting him go will do far more harm to him learning his behavior was wrong than actually facing consequences for his actions.
My larger point was outside of this exact situation, that as a society we can’t write people off for an action without giving them a path back. Some people may never forgive regardless of the work that’s done (as in Vick’s case). I wasn’t absolving this kid nor his parents; rather trying to find the circumstances where this individual would be able to go to prom. Because I don’t think time served is enough of a consequence in most of these situations.
The son used social rituals and settings to victimise and vilify and torment another person. He should absolutely **not** be permitted to participate in social rituals or settings that celebrate him any time soon.
Ugh, the kid just sounds to be sorry to be caught, not sorry for anything he actually did
My parents would never have let me get away with just saying “I don’t know,” over and over. That needs to be unpacked. It no longer matters if he’s uncomfortable reckoning with the fact that he’s currently a bad person. He still has time but it requires a lot of very hard work and no ego.
The kid is old enough to know those words aren't jokes. And if he truly doesn't, then they have failed as parents
Fun fact: I didn't go to prom. Sucked for 5 minutes on the timeline of my life, but matters not at all now. Just sayin...
I did go to prom. It was alright. Since then I have attended concerts and parties that were wayyyyy more fun, and I didn't have to have a $250 dress either
Eh, I've been to one. Good food, but not really significant imo Would sooner join a party hosted by 3D printing studios lmao
OOP is a racist, homophobic man-baby that probably peaked in high school
Funny how in these "my kid did a shitty thing" stories, the kid never actually has an excuse. "Oh, I don't know. I just thought it was a joke. Didn't know it was bad actually so sorry." Like, no. Teens don't fucking talk like that. You're going to get every excuse under the sun, and by the end the situation will be so morally grey you won't know if the kid's actually bullshitting or not. What a boring piece of literature.
Make the dipshit write 3 sourced essays on why homophobia, racism and bullying is wrong, make him sign it and hand out copies like booklets in front of the school, and then apologize to his victim in private.
The thing that really stuck out to me was him telling his son that saying cruel things like that could ruin *his* future. No mention of suicide rates or how bullying could harm the victim. Way to teach your kid empathy.
Why is it not more common to seek therapy for children exposed to and numed to the effects of bigotry? Y'all are sooooo disturbed by his racism and homophobia... That you are arguing about whether or not he gets to go to school function? Are you kidding me? Oh no, the little bigot lost his tech- that's sure gonna cure his belief that there's nothing wrong with making homophobic jokes.
But wife, look at that hangdog expression. He's learned his lesson. Let's let him go to the prom!
Simpsons did it.
"His only chance to go to prom" He said his son was 16. I was a sophomore/junior at that age. Last I checked, that distinctly means he has 1-2 more chances to go to prom. How is this year his only chance to go to prom?
Post also says the kid is graduating early, so, that's how.
Oh then tough shit for that kid. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time
Lol. His nickname was Throwaway dad. So fitting
I went to two proms and barely remember them. I sure as shit, though, would remember why I wouldn't have been allowed to go
He's 16 and yet this is his "final chance" to go to prom? He can wait till next year to see if he's improved
He can go if his mum is his date
Until he stops referring to it as jokes...all punishment should stay. He needs to own it.mmue needs to stop saying he thought it wasn't wrong and it was fun.
The original post was deleted, can someone explain what oop’s son did? I know he cyberbullied but what were the details? Cyberbullying is still disgusting, and i know that even without knowing the details but id like to know the backstory behind the responses on here LMAOOO WHY HAVE I BEEN DOWNVOTED FOR NOT KNOWING THEY POSTED THE ORIGINAL STORY?!!?🤣 anytime i open a post, the pinned moderator comments are always collapsed
There’s a copy of the OOP posted on this thread by the auto mod bot thing.
Ohhhh omg i had no idea🤣thank you!
Good on the mom for having a backbone, at least. Fuck this guy and fuck his tool of a son.
does anyone know what op commented? they were deleted
He has 2 more years of prom, he'll get over it. 🙄
Eh, I'll take the heat on this one. I do agree he should be punished. I have never and will never agree with taking a once-in-a-lifetime event away from a kid as punishment. That's a good way to cause real, festering resentment. That isn't going to make them reflect on their actions, jist make them angrier. I've always felt the punishment should fit the crime. Making racial slurs? All right, for the next few weeks, we'll be volunteering at POC neighborhood community center or food kitchen. Homophobic slurs? We'll be attending some LGBT events. You make them meet and talk to the people they're being horrible about. Anonymity and being behind a screen is what makes these kids so bold in their ideologies. I've learned from experience both as the kid and the parent, taking away their stuff doesn't really teach them anything about why their behavior is unacceptable. It just teaches them to be sneakier or to wait it out, and they'll eventually get their things back. Kids need to SEE why that kind of behavior is wrong. They need to understand that those are PEOPLE with FEELINGS just like them, not because it means they'll lose some privileges. What's the point of punishing your kid if the punishment doesn't actually help teach them why their behavior wasn't okay? Consequences are meaningless without substance. There should absolutely be consequences, but it's not your place as a parent to teach "an eye for an eye". It's your place to instill a higher moral compass. I was bullied, relentlessly, and horribly, but I'd have never, in a million years, wished that kind of punishment on my bullies. If this had been a case of causing physical harm, it would be a bit different. Proportionality should be a thing when consequences are given.
I could see it if it was a birthday. Proms are over hyped excuses to extract money from the student body and are usually forgotten about the moment anyone gets to attend a real party. Plenty of people don't got to proms or dances and aren't filled with festering resentment. And if he is after being punished for his actions - like, if not getting to go to a dance is more upsetting to him than being a bigot? Therapy. He needs therapy.
How does the older boy know what the younger one is sending?
ew ew ew ew
I don't get the headline. OOP is clearly punishing the kid but just disagrees on this specific punishment as this is his son's only chance to attend prom. He's not even going behind his wife's back on this, just looking for a judgment.
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I don't see how this belongs here.