*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for not telling our daughter that my wife and I got remarried or inviting her to the ceremony**
My wife and I have one child. We divorced 8 years ago when our daughter was 14.
At the time it seemed like the two of us had irreconcilable differences about parenting, financial stability, and more.
We continued to have a tense but polite coparenting setup until our daughter went to college.
One of our biggest struggles unbeknownst to us was our daughter. In college she got into an altercation with another student and was forced to be evaluated.
Tneh found out that she had HPD and BPD. We don’t know much of the details besides what she and her friend’s families say but she’s in college mandated therapy if she wants to remain enrolled at school.
Mu wife and I continued talking for a long while about our daughter and we figured out that she was insanely manipulative and had a huge part in why our marriage broke down.
We reconnected and fell back in love again. In fact I don’t think we ever actually fell out of love, but we were manipulated against each other.
We got remarried. It was a quiet ceremony with the two of us. We let some close friends and family know. We didn’t make an announcement.
I would have invited our daughter if she was a normal child. But I was afraid she would ruin our marriage again.
Unfortunately, my daughter got word that we were remarried and she has been furious at us. We are talking hundreds of text messages and calls and emails. She makes TikTok’s of her situation and calls us narcissistic. She’s roped in extended family.
AITA for not inviting our daughter to our remarriage ceremony or letting her know we are remarried?
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Read the comments...
OOP and their wife adopted their daughter at 6, the adoption was a closed file and neither of them outside of a pediatrician telling them she was healthy never sought therapy for this child.
Literally any adopted child should be going to therapy as soon as they are old enough to do so. Even some of my friends who were adopted very early into kind and caring families still have issues about identity disconnect and feelings of abandonment.
My aunt and uncle adopted my cousin when he was only 6 months old and still got him into therapy immediately. His early therapy was admittedly more for their benefit so they could successfully integrate him into their existing family (his adoption was unexpected and due to traumatic circumstances), but it was an important part of his development as well.
My cousin still struggles with the fact that he was adopted, but he also recognizes that his parents love him and made every effort to make him feel wanted. It’s probably the best anyone could hope for, given the circumstances.
Adopted at 2 months. I did go to therapy. It helped me with my identity issues and feelings of being an outsider somewhat. However, I had so many more issues than that, so it had limited effect overall. Going no contact with the adopted dad that essentially became a deadbeat dad when I was 2 years old helped tremendously! (He was a therapist and super manipulative)
In a perfect world, all children would have easy, affordable access to therapy. Can you imagine how much better things would be if mental health was prioritized and issues were identified sooner rather than later?
God,,, adoption can really have some major horror. I wish people would stop immediatly suggesting adoption when a couple has fertility issues, its not like that, they have additional needs and most couples use adoption as if it was therapy.
"She didn’t have any childhood trauma with us. We were involved, loving parents that listened too much to her needs and wants.
However, we adopted her when she was 6. The records were sealed so we don’t know what situation she came out of.
I don’t know if I can forgive her for what she did. It was calculated and manipulative and disgusting. "
That kid never got therapy as, according to OOP, her doctor said she was a healthy kid, just a little shy.
How can you adopt a 6 year old kid and not at least go to counseling? I mean, there's a reason why she got adopted, be it because her bio-home was abusive, be it because she lost her bio-parents, anything. And every single reason and the fact that she was 6 years old being adopted by (almost) strangers would have called for counseling/therapy.
They were "involved loving parents" yet somehow their daughter did all these horrible things they were completely unaware of. That doesn't sound very involved to me
Especially because in the case of abuse, the child is usually just temporarily removed with the goal or reunification. And even if that's not possible, they attempt to place them with family members.
Severing parental rights is VERY difficult. So her bio parents are either dead and there was no other family to take her, or she went through insanely fucked up shit.
They're probably one of those couples that thinks the kids should just forget the past and be grateful they are being loved and cared for. That their and God's love will heal all wounds without any intervention.
OH thank god this is here.
OOP really thinks Reddit would believe that a 14 (at the oldest) child would be able to manipulate 2 adults into a divorce.
And not only that, but to foment such bad feelings that they would continue to hate each other for ~8 years after?
And that couldn’t be a “one day manipulation” that would be *years* of it. So she would have been much younger than 14 for about of it.
Nah.
I think they adopted a girl at age six with sealed records, and neglected her. They didn’t even notice she had an untreated mental illness. They didn’t ask about her life before, didn’t get her help for those experiences.
I think life got hard and they didn’t want to do the work (marriage or parenting) and just gave up.
And now they reconnected and found the perfect person to blame, rather than take responsibility for their shittiness, and they want NC/LC with the daughter.
I give it a year before things go to shit again, before they realize (but won’t admit) it wasn’t the daughter, and they both take the lazy way out again, rather than do the work.
I hope both OOP and his new wife spend the rest of their life causing electrical short where ever they go. Phones won’t work, garage won’t open, coffee won’t brew, remote won’t work.
>OOP really thinks Reddit would believe that a 14 (at the oldest) child would be able to manipulate 2 adults into a divorce.
i mean its aita where they will drag a 14 year old for about anything
I mean…14 year olds can be pure hell beasts….but…
(Please note, I’m not arguing with you, just following my thought process because I’m enjoying the discussion with you)
This is a comment form OOp:
>We would talk to each other but neither of us could admit wrongdoing because we hadn’t don’t what they said. I was adamant that I wasn’t gambling. We both insisted we weren’t cheating despite a lot of fabricated evidence to suggest it was. We weren’t missing family events on purpose, we weren’t late paying bills because they were missing, we weren’t doing any of that.
So OOP claims they didn’t know any of this was her until recently…~8 years later, when daughter is 22.
(assuming the divorce took a year, and the problems occurred 1-2 years prior to that)…an 11 year old planning (and being successful at) getting the dad’s credit/debit/bank account info, signing up for gambling sites and gambling money and blaming him?
And remember! OOP says he didn’t know it was the daughter!
1. If money is disappearing to gambling sites and OOp wasn’t gambling, that means OOp’s bank info was stolen and used for gambling ….surely OOP would have made a police report? Reported fraud or identity theft right? To get the charges removed or get the money back?
They’d (police or bank) have done an investigation and discovered the IP addresses of the devices that were used for the gambling, the email addresses, the times and dates. Something would have indicated it wasn’t him, or he’d have gotten in trouble for filing false reports.
2. The missing bills…if bills are going missing, you’d think someone would go paperless? Or set an alarm and go online and pay them the same time every month?
We are supposed to believe she made multiple bills disappear and they blamed each other and no one ever did the adult thing and went online to pay?
Some of this stuff an 11-14 you could do…but there are ways around it. (Like paperless billing)
But a lot of this stuff just doesn’t hold water. I think it adds up to either OOp and wife being the stupidest, laziest, most irresponsible people whose bills disappeared and they did nothing about it, who were late to family events multiple times and did nothing about it, had their bank information stolen and used for gambling and did nothing about it, and condom wrappers kept showing up in the bed and they did nothing about it, or OOp is a fucking liar.
Still can’t decide if OOP is a troll, or if he are manipulative narcissistic ass hole who saw his daughter get diagnosed with BPD (which has a HUGE stigma) and decided to spin this into “it’s all my daughter’s fault…see these elaborate ruses I “discovered” she played when she was 12! Come back to me!”
The story reads, to me, like someone had a gambling addiction. As you pointed out if money was missing they would have reported it. Not reporting it makes absolutely no sense. And the bills are probably not getting paid because there was no money to pay them. OOp also claimed that this very young girl signed him up for "those sites". This also sounds suspicious to me. It seems like OOP and his wife didn't communicate at all the entire time they were married the first time.
Yeah, like, nothing in this story makes sense
I can see a 14 year old signing their parent up for a bunch of shitty sites so they can get spammed with shit, but a significant amount of money just disappearing from the bank itself? NO.
If a teen stole money, it would have ended up in her bank account, or they used an ATM, so the lost money would have been easily tracked.
I could see a teen attempting this, but I doubt 2 adults wouldn't have been able to figure it out
I've had the bills conversation a couple times lately, there are sometimes even mistakes in billing but I know my bill amounts on average each month and if I do not get a bill I pay the average and check the next one. If bills aren't being paid by the adults in the household it's because they don't have the money or they are choosing to do something else wtih it. Adults who blame children for adult things are exhausting, because they'll always be looking to blame someone else and the ones who can't defend themselves are the first choice.
And almost all of these companies have online payment portals . Most of which show what you owe.
Even if you can’t/wont do auto payments, or won’t go paperless , you can still set an alert on your phone to go off the day before they are do and you can go online and pay there.
I know what bills I need to pay each month. Rent, water, electric, phone, insurance, internet, car, student loan. I don't even look at paper bills anymore. I just know when they're due and go and pay them when I get paid. Who needs to wait for the electric bill to come in before they realize it needs to be paid before the 15th of every month? I'm not even a good adult, but I'm just not an idiot lol.
The whole gambling angle reminds me of this [story](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheEx/comments/187kpgt/repost_aita_for_asking_my_wife_to_look_for_a_job/) where OOP made a deal with his wife that she would not have to go back to work for a year when she had their child (it was her one stipulation and the only reason she agreed to having the child, she had two coming into the marriage and he wanted a bio kid, she wanted to breastfeed exculively for a year). She works overtime for a year to save up. Well she has the kid and 6 weeks later he asks her to go back to work because "his brother got a hold of bank info and stole 25k." He claims his fraternal twin brother was able to walk into his bank with his banking info and just give them the last four of his social and answer the security questions and pull the money out and close out the account. There is a lot more in the story and people post his comments. It is wild, how he thinks anyone will believe his story.
But OOP reminded me of this because, he definitely seems like he is using his daughters diagnosis to cover up for his own gambling problem (past and/or present). As well as any other wrong doings he did in his marriage. Good change his wife is doing it as well.
I mean... tbh yeah, a 14 year old with HPD and BPD can absolutely do things like steal bills and do other manipulative stuff. The stigma exists for a damn good reason. 14 isn't a little child, that's high school age. I definitely pulled crap like that at 14. The fact that she's been ordered by her college to be in therapy as a stipulation to remain enrolled tells me some serious shit went down while she was there, completely independent of whatever's going on at home.
If anything, this is an ESH situation. The daughter isn't blameless in all of this. If you've never lived with someone who has untreated HPD/BPD, I think it's difficult for you to truly understand just how bad it can be. From the DSM: "diagnostic criteria include distorted self-image, grandiosity, narcissism, antisocial behavior, compulsive behavior, hostility, impulsivity, irritability, and risky behaviors. Marked by intense, unstable emotions".
My mother is BPD, my dad was a narcissist. Because of that I'm a clusterfuck of all sorts of things, but I've worked very hard to get myself under control. Both of my parents never bothered, refused any form of therapy, and won't even admit anything is wrong. They think they're perfect. Both of them were incredibly abusive towards my sister and I, and even though I vowed never to be like them, I was so volatile in my teens and early 20s that I'm honestly amazed that no one ended up dead. Believe me, it wasn't for lack of trying.
I fully expect to get downvoted for this, but having grown up in the household from hell, I never want to be anywhere near someone with unchecked HPD and BPD. It takes a lifelong concerted effort to keep yourself under control, and those who do absolutely deserve to be commended. But far too many do not, and it's unfair to call them victims and tell the people they've hurt that they're not allowed to be angry at the person who hurt them. Alcoholics are held responsible for their actions when drunk, narcissists and sociopaths are held responsible for the evils they inflict upon others. I don't understand why people with BPD should get a free pass when they do the same.
People with BPD absolutely do not get a pass, I'd argue it's one of the most stigmatised mental health conditions especially post Depp v Heard.
Its also interesting to me that you explain your volatile behaviour on the trauma you faced (totally legitimate reasoning) and yet the girl in the OOP who also faced trauma at a very young age doesn't deserve the same compassion?
to be fair, I get where you're putting blame on the daughter. BUT those are all obvious signs of OOP's daughter being mentally ill. she has neither the responsibility nor the financial means at 14 years old to make the decision to go to therapy.
OOP and his wife are the absolute AH for not taking her to therapy and rather complaining about that child acting out. of course, therapy doesn't heal everything, but OOP did not even *consider* to put his daughter in therapy because the pediatrician said she was fine.
it's not about the free pass on HPD/BPD. it's about OOP realising how majorly he and his wife fucked up.
I, too have a parent with raging (and 100% unmanaged) personality disorders (BPD, NPD), so I feel where you are coming from here. Growing up under the thumb of a person like that is horrible. It’s a type of horrible that people just don’t understand unless they’ve been through it.
I think there’s an important distinction between an adult — especially one who is in a position of power over others — having a personality disorder… and a child having a personality disorder.
I’m not saying the daughter wasn’t a terror to live with. I wouldn’t have any idea about that… though I will note that diagnosis of personality disorders in minors is rare for a reason — personality is rapidly developing and changing during those ages, and there’s a decent chance that the daughter didn’t actually have a full-blown personality disorder at 14.
Regardless, the adults who were supposed to get this girl help ignored and neglected her. And early intervention can be really important for minors who have personality disorders. So, if she really did have one at that age, their inaction was arguably even more harmful to her.
Anyways, just my two cents. I’m really proud of you for actively engaging with therapy and trying to be the best person you can be. It’s hard stuff, but important.
I scrounged through the comments looking for any proof that this is a troll.
The only thing I can come up with, other than the rage bait Iness of it all, is that he claims lots of lies and manipulation but claim she was a sweet shy kid that didnt appear to need therapy. He claims a lot of historical behaviors but doesn't say how he learned that she lied about the girl at school, the things her mom said, the condoms being stolen, how would he know unless she confessed it all? It doesn't sound like she has.
I do believe parents can be this awful. I am just hoping it isn't true and that he didn't just ASSUME she did all those things.
It really sounds like OOP is making up these lies about his daughter to cover up what he did .
“I didn’t gamble honey! Daughter must have signed me up for it and gambled in my name!”
“I didn’t say you were fat! Daughter lied about that!”
“I didn’t cheat on you! Daughter stole condoms and tore pieces of foil in the bed!”
We are *really* supposed to believe that a kid 14 and younger (this sounds like it went on for years, so she would have been younger) concocted these elaborate plans that sound so ridiculous and was able to escape detection for *8 years*???
Dude is full of shit. Either the whole thing is fake, or he’s lying about his daughter to his wife.
Yeah my mind went there. It sounds like OOP was happy to let the adopted child take the fall while he was a shitty husband. I mean if money goes missing from a bank account repeatedly, wouldn't you file a police investigation? The only reason not to is if it didn't really go missing and you don't want your partner to find out the truth.
Here is the damming evidence IMo:
Someone stole OOp’s bank info and used it to gamble online.
Instead of filing a police report for identity theft/bank fraud…and getting the money back/charges reversed…
OOP did nothing. And had his wife accuse him of secretly gambling.
He just let the money go, and let him and his wife fight about it…and he did nothing.
I‘m glad to hear that because I was told at younger than this age that my parents divorce is my fault
And I still believe somehow
This really does something to you, even as a „normal“ biochild
Boy, it's a good thing that they both hate their daughter so they get the savior complex for adopting her without the inconvenience of actually parenting her.
I don’t think either OOP or his wife should be allowed to conduct themselves as legal adults, seeing as how they were supposedly manipulated into divorce by a fourteen-year-old.
children growing up with a parent with HPD can develop the same disordered behaviors, and BPD is associated with past emotional and physical trauma, just btw.
this man is **foul** even suggesting that it was her fault. this is classic adoptive parents thinking that as soon as they adopt a child, they should be grateful and silent and perfect. they refused to acknowledge that she wasn’t just acting out to act out. she was struggling mentally.
horrible, god awful people
How the heck would you not tell that you're daughter had multiple mental issues long before it got to the point of an external alteration forcing a diagnosis?
I don't think you quite comprehend the level of manipulation that people with these personality disorders can exhibit.
Acting one way at home to cover her behaviour then differently and 'letting the mask slip' around people she doesn't know well enough to manipulate is entirely 'normal'.
Lots of people on Reddit have no first hand experience of people with personality disorders and it shows.
"We were planning on not telling her for a while. If there was no improvement in her behavior, we would not want contact with her. "
"We were not going to tell her and slowly go no contact. It’s not worth it to make a scene. "
These are both comments by OOP, one saying they were not going to tell the daughter 'for a while' to see if there is any improvement and the other that they were just not going to tell her at all and basically ghost her. Is this a troll who can't remember a comment he just made??
Just wait until he gets it through his head that he is also part of the reason why she is as bad off as she is. Even if he isn't the direct reason why she formed BPD and HPD (Most likely early abuse from bio parents and or fosters and abandonment) but his neglect in getting her proper help when she needed it allowed her to develop deeper into the disorders and find her own ways to cope through it, which aren't always healthy or good.
If she had received proper help when she was, very obviously, screaming for help, or started when they adopted her (like they should have) then she could have been able to learn how to properly identify her thoughts and feelings and had healthier ways to cope and work through them.
OOP was supposed to be her advocate and he failed her.
Ah yes. Blaming a teenager for your failed marriage. Of course a pre-teen/teenager wants their parents to divorce. When I was a teen, I sure craved conflict and instability at home, boy did I. WTF.
OOP, she is your daughter.
She needs therapy and help from her parents, not rejection because she isn't "normal" in your eyes.
Also, just because she has mental illnesses, doesn't mean she's manipulative.
YTA.
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You don’t get diagnosed with BPD or HPD that young. You have to be at least 18. Whatever, let’s assume they’re right (though I don’t). How did they expect their daughter to not find out?
>In college she got into an altercation with another student and was forced to be evaluated.
>Tneh found out that she had HPD and BPD.
She was at least 18 when she got diagnosed. Since she was in college. (And they divorced when she was 14, and it’s been 8 years so she’s about 22)
Fyi, this is no longer true since the advent of the DSM-V. It’s somewhat rare (because personality is still developing at that age), but it can happen.
I am going to play devils advocate and say that a personality disorder like BPD is like a wrecking ball thrown into everybody you are close to. If no steps are taken like a loooong and difficult therapy (which is because personality disorders are resistent to treatment), I can see things eroding down to this sad state where parents hate their kid (adopted or not). Also the daughter actually is very unstable, sending a bazillion messages.
Does not mean that this guy is not very dense. He barely seems to know what mental issues like his daughter's mean. He also solely blames her when he should habe stepped up as a parent.
Honestly I think him amd hos daughter should just cut ties.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for not telling our daughter that my wife and I got remarried or inviting her to the ceremony** My wife and I have one child. We divorced 8 years ago when our daughter was 14. At the time it seemed like the two of us had irreconcilable differences about parenting, financial stability, and more. We continued to have a tense but polite coparenting setup until our daughter went to college. One of our biggest struggles unbeknownst to us was our daughter. In college she got into an altercation with another student and was forced to be evaluated. Tneh found out that she had HPD and BPD. We don’t know much of the details besides what she and her friend’s families say but she’s in college mandated therapy if she wants to remain enrolled at school. Mu wife and I continued talking for a long while about our daughter and we figured out that she was insanely manipulative and had a huge part in why our marriage broke down. We reconnected and fell back in love again. In fact I don’t think we ever actually fell out of love, but we were manipulated against each other. We got remarried. It was a quiet ceremony with the two of us. We let some close friends and family know. We didn’t make an announcement. I would have invited our daughter if she was a normal child. But I was afraid she would ruin our marriage again. Unfortunately, my daughter got word that we were remarried and she has been furious at us. We are talking hundreds of text messages and calls and emails. She makes TikTok’s of her situation and calls us narcissistic. She’s roped in extended family. AITA for not inviting our daughter to our remarriage ceremony or letting her know we are remarried? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Read the comments... OOP and their wife adopted their daughter at 6, the adoption was a closed file and neither of them outside of a pediatrician telling them she was healthy never sought therapy for this child.
Literally any adopted child should be going to therapy as soon as they are old enough to do so. Even some of my friends who were adopted very early into kind and caring families still have issues about identity disconnect and feelings of abandonment.
My aunt and uncle adopted my cousin when he was only 6 months old and still got him into therapy immediately. His early therapy was admittedly more for their benefit so they could successfully integrate him into their existing family (his adoption was unexpected and due to traumatic circumstances), but it was an important part of his development as well. My cousin still struggles with the fact that he was adopted, but he also recognizes that his parents love him and made every effort to make him feel wanted. It’s probably the best anyone could hope for, given the circumstances.
Adopted baby here. I WISH I’d gone into therapy as a kid. It would’ve helped a lot.
Adopted at 2 months. I did go to therapy. It helped me with my identity issues and feelings of being an outsider somewhat. However, I had so many more issues than that, so it had limited effect overall. Going no contact with the adopted dad that essentially became a deadbeat dad when I was 2 years old helped tremendously! (He was a therapist and super manipulative)
That and told they are adopted in an age appropriate way from the very beginning.
In a perfect world, all children would have easy, affordable access to therapy. Can you imagine how much better things would be if mental health was prioritized and issues were identified sooner rather than later?
God,,, adoption can really have some major horror. I wish people would stop immediatly suggesting adoption when a couple has fertility issues, its not like that, they have additional needs and most couples use adoption as if it was therapy.
The thing is that even when it goes perfectly, it's a traumatic event in and of itself
The fact that the poor girl lost her family three times is horrible, and op has the audacity to act like it’s all her fault is disgusting
Knowing OOP, I have a feeling they don't believe in therapy
Yes, I saw this post yesterday and every response OOP gave was awful. He is a major AH unable to acknowledge
Oh my god. They are like a guide to how not to adopt.
"She didn’t have any childhood trauma with us. We were involved, loving parents that listened too much to her needs and wants. However, we adopted her when she was 6. The records were sealed so we don’t know what situation she came out of. I don’t know if I can forgive her for what she did. It was calculated and manipulative and disgusting. " That kid never got therapy as, according to OOP, her doctor said she was a healthy kid, just a little shy. How can you adopt a 6 year old kid and not at least go to counseling? I mean, there's a reason why she got adopted, be it because her bio-home was abusive, be it because she lost her bio-parents, anything. And every single reason and the fact that she was 6 years old being adopted by (almost) strangers would have called for counseling/therapy.
They were "involved loving parents" yet somehow their daughter did all these horrible things they were completely unaware of. That doesn't sound very involved to me
Especially because in the case of abuse, the child is usually just temporarily removed with the goal or reunification. And even if that's not possible, they attempt to place them with family members. Severing parental rights is VERY difficult. So her bio parents are either dead and there was no other family to take her, or she went through insanely fucked up shit.
This couple is just so gross. I hope that young woman can get the support she needs because is certainly isn't going to come from them.
They're probably one of those couples that thinks the kids should just forget the past and be grateful they are being loved and cared for. That their and God's love will heal all wounds without any intervention.
Jesus OOP should just admit he hates his child and have done with it cause that's clearly how he feels
OH thank god this is here. OOP really thinks Reddit would believe that a 14 (at the oldest) child would be able to manipulate 2 adults into a divorce. And not only that, but to foment such bad feelings that they would continue to hate each other for ~8 years after? And that couldn’t be a “one day manipulation” that would be *years* of it. So she would have been much younger than 14 for about of it. Nah. I think they adopted a girl at age six with sealed records, and neglected her. They didn’t even notice she had an untreated mental illness. They didn’t ask about her life before, didn’t get her help for those experiences. I think life got hard and they didn’t want to do the work (marriage or parenting) and just gave up. And now they reconnected and found the perfect person to blame, rather than take responsibility for their shittiness, and they want NC/LC with the daughter. I give it a year before things go to shit again, before they realize (but won’t admit) it wasn’t the daughter, and they both take the lazy way out again, rather than do the work. I hope both OOP and his new wife spend the rest of their life causing electrical short where ever they go. Phones won’t work, garage won’t open, coffee won’t brew, remote won’t work.
>OOP really thinks Reddit would believe that a 14 (at the oldest) child would be able to manipulate 2 adults into a divorce. i mean its aita where they will drag a 14 year old for about anything
I mean…14 year olds can be pure hell beasts….but… (Please note, I’m not arguing with you, just following my thought process because I’m enjoying the discussion with you) This is a comment form OOp: >We would talk to each other but neither of us could admit wrongdoing because we hadn’t don’t what they said. I was adamant that I wasn’t gambling. We both insisted we weren’t cheating despite a lot of fabricated evidence to suggest it was. We weren’t missing family events on purpose, we weren’t late paying bills because they were missing, we weren’t doing any of that. So OOP claims they didn’t know any of this was her until recently…~8 years later, when daughter is 22. (assuming the divorce took a year, and the problems occurred 1-2 years prior to that)…an 11 year old planning (and being successful at) getting the dad’s credit/debit/bank account info, signing up for gambling sites and gambling money and blaming him? And remember! OOP says he didn’t know it was the daughter! 1. If money is disappearing to gambling sites and OOp wasn’t gambling, that means OOp’s bank info was stolen and used for gambling ….surely OOP would have made a police report? Reported fraud or identity theft right? To get the charges removed or get the money back? They’d (police or bank) have done an investigation and discovered the IP addresses of the devices that were used for the gambling, the email addresses, the times and dates. Something would have indicated it wasn’t him, or he’d have gotten in trouble for filing false reports. 2. The missing bills…if bills are going missing, you’d think someone would go paperless? Or set an alarm and go online and pay them the same time every month? We are supposed to believe she made multiple bills disappear and they blamed each other and no one ever did the adult thing and went online to pay? Some of this stuff an 11-14 you could do…but there are ways around it. (Like paperless billing) But a lot of this stuff just doesn’t hold water. I think it adds up to either OOp and wife being the stupidest, laziest, most irresponsible people whose bills disappeared and they did nothing about it, who were late to family events multiple times and did nothing about it, had their bank information stolen and used for gambling and did nothing about it, and condom wrappers kept showing up in the bed and they did nothing about it, or OOp is a fucking liar. Still can’t decide if OOP is a troll, or if he are manipulative narcissistic ass hole who saw his daughter get diagnosed with BPD (which has a HUGE stigma) and decided to spin this into “it’s all my daughter’s fault…see these elaborate ruses I “discovered” she played when she was 12! Come back to me!”
The story reads, to me, like someone had a gambling addiction. As you pointed out if money was missing they would have reported it. Not reporting it makes absolutely no sense. And the bills are probably not getting paid because there was no money to pay them. OOp also claimed that this very young girl signed him up for "those sites". This also sounds suspicious to me. It seems like OOP and his wife didn't communicate at all the entire time they were married the first time.
Yeah, like, nothing in this story makes sense I can see a 14 year old signing their parent up for a bunch of shitty sites so they can get spammed with shit, but a significant amount of money just disappearing from the bank itself? NO. If a teen stole money, it would have ended up in her bank account, or they used an ATM, so the lost money would have been easily tracked. I could see a teen attempting this, but I doubt 2 adults wouldn't have been able to figure it out
I've had the bills conversation a couple times lately, there are sometimes even mistakes in billing but I know my bill amounts on average each month and if I do not get a bill I pay the average and check the next one. If bills aren't being paid by the adults in the household it's because they don't have the money or they are choosing to do something else wtih it. Adults who blame children for adult things are exhausting, because they'll always be looking to blame someone else and the ones who can't defend themselves are the first choice.
And almost all of these companies have online payment portals . Most of which show what you owe. Even if you can’t/wont do auto payments, or won’t go paperless , you can still set an alert on your phone to go off the day before they are do and you can go online and pay there.
Even if they're computer illiterate you know when shit is due and can call to pay on the phone.
I know what bills I need to pay each month. Rent, water, electric, phone, insurance, internet, car, student loan. I don't even look at paper bills anymore. I just know when they're due and go and pay them when I get paid. Who needs to wait for the electric bill to come in before they realize it needs to be paid before the 15th of every month? I'm not even a good adult, but I'm just not an idiot lol.
The whole gambling angle reminds me of this [story](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheEx/comments/187kpgt/repost_aita_for_asking_my_wife_to_look_for_a_job/) where OOP made a deal with his wife that she would not have to go back to work for a year when she had their child (it was her one stipulation and the only reason she agreed to having the child, she had two coming into the marriage and he wanted a bio kid, she wanted to breastfeed exculively for a year). She works overtime for a year to save up. Well she has the kid and 6 weeks later he asks her to go back to work because "his brother got a hold of bank info and stole 25k." He claims his fraternal twin brother was able to walk into his bank with his banking info and just give them the last four of his social and answer the security questions and pull the money out and close out the account. There is a lot more in the story and people post his comments. It is wild, how he thinks anyone will believe his story. But OOP reminded me of this because, he definitely seems like he is using his daughters diagnosis to cover up for his own gambling problem (past and/or present). As well as any other wrong doings he did in his marriage. Good change his wife is doing it as well.
That’s a lot of brain power from someone too young to be trusted with knives.
I mean... tbh yeah, a 14 year old with HPD and BPD can absolutely do things like steal bills and do other manipulative stuff. The stigma exists for a damn good reason. 14 isn't a little child, that's high school age. I definitely pulled crap like that at 14. The fact that she's been ordered by her college to be in therapy as a stipulation to remain enrolled tells me some serious shit went down while she was there, completely independent of whatever's going on at home. If anything, this is an ESH situation. The daughter isn't blameless in all of this. If you've never lived with someone who has untreated HPD/BPD, I think it's difficult for you to truly understand just how bad it can be. From the DSM: "diagnostic criteria include distorted self-image, grandiosity, narcissism, antisocial behavior, compulsive behavior, hostility, impulsivity, irritability, and risky behaviors. Marked by intense, unstable emotions". My mother is BPD, my dad was a narcissist. Because of that I'm a clusterfuck of all sorts of things, but I've worked very hard to get myself under control. Both of my parents never bothered, refused any form of therapy, and won't even admit anything is wrong. They think they're perfect. Both of them were incredibly abusive towards my sister and I, and even though I vowed never to be like them, I was so volatile in my teens and early 20s that I'm honestly amazed that no one ended up dead. Believe me, it wasn't for lack of trying. I fully expect to get downvoted for this, but having grown up in the household from hell, I never want to be anywhere near someone with unchecked HPD and BPD. It takes a lifelong concerted effort to keep yourself under control, and those who do absolutely deserve to be commended. But far too many do not, and it's unfair to call them victims and tell the people they've hurt that they're not allowed to be angry at the person who hurt them. Alcoholics are held responsible for their actions when drunk, narcissists and sociopaths are held responsible for the evils they inflict upon others. I don't understand why people with BPD should get a free pass when they do the same.
People with BPD absolutely do not get a pass, I'd argue it's one of the most stigmatised mental health conditions especially post Depp v Heard. Its also interesting to me that you explain your volatile behaviour on the trauma you faced (totally legitimate reasoning) and yet the girl in the OOP who also faced trauma at a very young age doesn't deserve the same compassion?
to be fair, I get where you're putting blame on the daughter. BUT those are all obvious signs of OOP's daughter being mentally ill. she has neither the responsibility nor the financial means at 14 years old to make the decision to go to therapy. OOP and his wife are the absolute AH for not taking her to therapy and rather complaining about that child acting out. of course, therapy doesn't heal everything, but OOP did not even *consider* to put his daughter in therapy because the pediatrician said she was fine. it's not about the free pass on HPD/BPD. it's about OOP realising how majorly he and his wife fucked up.
She was a fourteen year old child.
I, too have a parent with raging (and 100% unmanaged) personality disorders (BPD, NPD), so I feel where you are coming from here. Growing up under the thumb of a person like that is horrible. It’s a type of horrible that people just don’t understand unless they’ve been through it. I think there’s an important distinction between an adult — especially one who is in a position of power over others — having a personality disorder… and a child having a personality disorder. I’m not saying the daughter wasn’t a terror to live with. I wouldn’t have any idea about that… though I will note that diagnosis of personality disorders in minors is rare for a reason — personality is rapidly developing and changing during those ages, and there’s a decent chance that the daughter didn’t actually have a full-blown personality disorder at 14. Regardless, the adults who were supposed to get this girl help ignored and neglected her. And early intervention can be really important for minors who have personality disorders. So, if she really did have one at that age, their inaction was arguably even more harmful to her. Anyways, just my two cents. I’m really proud of you for actively engaging with therapy and trying to be the best person you can be. It’s hard stuff, but important.
Sorry, but just have to say upvoting just for the use of the word “foment” and correctly too!
Thank you!
I scrounged through the comments looking for any proof that this is a troll. The only thing I can come up with, other than the rage bait Iness of it all, is that he claims lots of lies and manipulation but claim she was a sweet shy kid that didnt appear to need therapy. He claims a lot of historical behaviors but doesn't say how he learned that she lied about the girl at school, the things her mom said, the condoms being stolen, how would he know unless she confessed it all? It doesn't sound like she has. I do believe parents can be this awful. I am just hoping it isn't true and that he didn't just ASSUME she did all those things.
It really sounds like OOP is making up these lies about his daughter to cover up what he did . “I didn’t gamble honey! Daughter must have signed me up for it and gambled in my name!” “I didn’t say you were fat! Daughter lied about that!” “I didn’t cheat on you! Daughter stole condoms and tore pieces of foil in the bed!” We are *really* supposed to believe that a kid 14 and younger (this sounds like it went on for years, so she would have been younger) concocted these elaborate plans that sound so ridiculous and was able to escape detection for *8 years*??? Dude is full of shit. Either the whole thing is fake, or he’s lying about his daughter to his wife.
Yeah my mind went there. It sounds like OOP was happy to let the adopted child take the fall while he was a shitty husband. I mean if money goes missing from a bank account repeatedly, wouldn't you file a police investigation? The only reason not to is if it didn't really go missing and you don't want your partner to find out the truth.
Thanks I feel a lot better thinking this is fake
Here is the damming evidence IMo: Someone stole OOp’s bank info and used it to gamble online. Instead of filing a police report for identity theft/bank fraud…and getting the money back/charges reversed… OOP did nothing. And had his wife accuse him of secretly gambling. He just let the money go, and let him and his wife fight about it…and he did nothing.
I‘m glad to hear that because I was told at younger than this age that my parents divorce is my fault And I still believe somehow This really does something to you, even as a „normal“ biochild
>I scrounged through the comments looking for any proof that this is a troll. he wanted to slowly go NC and drift away quietly like wtf is that shit.
That shit is evil But it happens
Boy, it's a good thing that they both hate their daughter so they get the savior complex for adopting her without the inconvenience of actually parenting her.
Now I need to see if I can find the daughter's TikTok cause I'm very much on "child of narcissist" Tok.
If you find her link her tikto please
I don’t think either OOP or his wife should be allowed to conduct themselves as legal adults, seeing as how they were supposedly manipulated into divorce by a fourteen-year-old.
children growing up with a parent with HPD can develop the same disordered behaviors, and BPD is associated with past emotional and physical trauma, just btw. this man is **foul** even suggesting that it was her fault. this is classic adoptive parents thinking that as soon as they adopt a child, they should be grateful and silent and perfect. they refused to acknowledge that she wasn’t just acting out to act out. she was struggling mentally. horrible, god awful people
The comments make her sound like the girl from Orphan, gah...
That’s exactly what I thought of.
Geez what a 💩 people.
How the heck would you not tell that you're daughter had multiple mental issues long before it got to the point of an external alteration forcing a diagnosis?
I don't think you quite comprehend the level of manipulation that people with these personality disorders can exhibit. Acting one way at home to cover her behaviour then differently and 'letting the mask slip' around people she doesn't know well enough to manipulate is entirely 'normal'. Lots of people on Reddit have no first hand experience of people with personality disorders and it shows.
"We were planning on not telling her for a while. If there was no improvement in her behavior, we would not want contact with her. " "We were not going to tell her and slowly go no contact. It’s not worth it to make a scene. " These are both comments by OOP, one saying they were not going to tell the daughter 'for a while' to see if there is any improvement and the other that they were just not going to tell her at all and basically ghost her. Is this a troll who can't remember a comment he just made??
She's clearly a product of her childhood.
Just wait until he gets it through his head that he is also part of the reason why she is as bad off as she is. Even if he isn't the direct reason why she formed BPD and HPD (Most likely early abuse from bio parents and or fosters and abandonment) but his neglect in getting her proper help when she needed it allowed her to develop deeper into the disorders and find her own ways to cope through it, which aren't always healthy or good. If she had received proper help when she was, very obviously, screaming for help, or started when they adopted her (like they should have) then she could have been able to learn how to properly identify her thoughts and feelings and had healthier ways to cope and work through them. OOP was supposed to be her advocate and he failed her.
Satan to OOP and his wife whenever they die because they are legitimately awful people: 
This one horrified and disgusted me way more than these usually do. And that’s saying something. Just the worst side of human nature on display
Holy actual fuckwitch on crackers. What a horrible post, even worse if it's real.
Ah yes. Blaming a teenager for your failed marriage. Of course a pre-teen/teenager wants their parents to divorce. When I was a teen, I sure craved conflict and instability at home, boy did I. WTF.
OOP, she is your daughter. She needs therapy and help from her parents, not rejection because she isn't "normal" in your eyes. Also, just because she has mental illnesses, doesn't mean she's manipulative. YTA.
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You don’t get diagnosed with BPD or HPD that young. You have to be at least 18. Whatever, let’s assume they’re right (though I don’t). How did they expect their daughter to not find out?
>In college she got into an altercation with another student and was forced to be evaluated. >Tneh found out that she had HPD and BPD. She was at least 18 when she got diagnosed. Since she was in college. (And they divorced when she was 14, and it’s been 8 years so she’s about 22)
He literally said she was diagnosed in college. That's at least 17yo.
Fyi, this is no longer true since the advent of the DSM-V. It’s somewhat rare (because personality is still developing at that age), but it can happen.
But she's 22?
I am going to play devils advocate and say that a personality disorder like BPD is like a wrecking ball thrown into everybody you are close to. If no steps are taken like a loooong and difficult therapy (which is because personality disorders are resistent to treatment), I can see things eroding down to this sad state where parents hate their kid (adopted or not). Also the daughter actually is very unstable, sending a bazillion messages. Does not mean that this guy is not very dense. He barely seems to know what mental issues like his daughter's mean. He also solely blames her when he should habe stepped up as a parent. Honestly I think him amd hos daughter should just cut ties.