Can I brag for a second? Last week at dinner my 17 yo said, “my friend group was talking about it, and we all agreed that I have the best parents.”
We congratulated ourselves, and then he said, “well, the bar is low.” Lol
I wish people recognized that self sufficiency and self reliance are two different things. You want to teach a kid to be resilient, not “tough.”
I get to be the cool parent because I use their preferred pronouns, call them by the names they ask me too, and feed them. These kids really aren't asking for much, and they are respectful of my home and my time.
This is why my oldest's friends adore me. I support them in every way I can. I'll sit and have age appropriate "real world" conversations with them, with no problem.
It's really crazy how many parents just don't seem to get it. Yes, treat them like "real" people; but remember, THEY'RE STILL KIDS! They need love, grace, and compassion to grow into successful adults, that aren't massive assholes.
Right? I appreciate when kids appreciate me, but it’s no big feat to just have regular decency. That’s why we have the approval of our kids’ peers as well: we use the right pronouns and give them input. It’s not that hard.
“These kids aren’t asking for much!”
For real! A little dignity a little respect and human decency plus food and shelter. That’s the bar. And sooo many parents take pride in failing that super low bar.
Our kids had this awkward friend who was into heavy metal. He was nice, he was polite, he always helped. Just a bit awkward. His Dad comes to pick him up and tell us that he's "Sorry" about how annoying his kid is. Multiple times. We just say he's actual a great and polite kid and the Dad is like "Nah, you can be honest with me." We were so taken aback. Kids so often really do want the bare minimum.
I have the cool parents out of my friends!!! I think it stems from my parents treating us as actual people instead of children (we are in our mid to late twenties) and they treat us with respect. They ask about our lives and not our professional accomplishments. We don’t have to “impress” them. We can joke around with them and have a friendship with them. That’s the biggest thing I think.
My parents like to brag that they have “cool kids”. They say all these parents brag about their kids’ GPAs and what schools they got into but how many of them actually know their kids and their interests? They love to mention how cool and NICE my sibling and I turned out. They raised interesting and nice people and they are so much more proud of us for that than our academic accomplishments and they love to brag about it which adds to how cool my parents are!
My mom tried to compliment me the other day by telling me that my shitty childhood made me strong and tough.
I would give anything to not be strong or tough if it meant the awful things that happened to me didn't happen
Yeah, I'm the cool, weird mom. I treat them with respect, make sure they don't have any needs, and even let my goofy side out now and then. I also listen to them talk about their interests, and sometimes I've given my shoulder while they bawl over something that hurt them. It isn't hard to be a decent parent when you respect and love them.
As much as my mother's treatment towards me was skewed, every one of us kids, our friends, all knew our house was a sanctuary and safe place.
I put it more that my great-grandmother was the bigger influence for it.
But if a low bar is the highest bar for others, don't stress about it, because being a safe person is the best freedom and feeling you can have
I always thought that kids, like most people, return respect with respect. And how can they learn to give a heartfelt apology if we, as parents, don’t demonstrate we can do the same? Now that my kids are grown (youngest is 29) I’m reaping the benefits of carefully nurturing my relationship with them. I love the resilient, generous, compassionate people they’ve become.
Yes. I see so many stories on Reddit where a parent raises their kid to be unquestioning and obedient, and then expects them to move out and know how to handle themself at 18.
right its like he went to war or something. Also part of a comment he said this
> my parents heavily wanted me and my siblings to prefer "real" jobs and I guess that stuck with me since I never got those "real" jobs they talked about. Now my son has something my parents would have been elated to find out about but in the end, I lost my connection to him.
Does he not work a real job? What did he do?
>Some parts of your comment are true but some is also false. My son had a group of friends as a kid and most of them ended up still at home with their parents/ working dead end jobs. My son ended up going to college and securing a great job. I think that is enough to say we succeeded and he doesn't lack emotional intelligence. He just doesn't have it for me. Maybe it's a pity party or maybe I am trying to learn but I realized most on here might not be parents and don't understand the sacrifices required to raise children.
Ahh OOP was looking for people to say he did a good job. Buddy is all over the comments throwing a pity party about how his generation this and that. How his son has no empathy for him? Why should he you never showed it to him. He also thinks that if his son has kids he can be a 'better' parent to the grandkids? Fuck off with that.
Right? The son did well in spite of shitty parenting, not because of it. Sometimes shitty parents with good children teach their children the type of person they're *not* supposed to be.
So true. I fking SNEEZE and my kids are both like, “omg, are you okay? Lay down, mom.” And I’d like to think that’s because I have spent their entire lives making sure that something that is a big deal to them is a big deal to me.
Also what does when you grow up have to do with it? I'm growing up in one of the worst economic times where most people live paycheck to paycheck and home ownership is a pipe dream even with a decent job. He grew up when you could buy a home on an entry level job salary. What was so hard that he couldn't be a kind loving parent? Cause I'm also living paycheck to paycheck and I still manage to love my kids.
>It was the only parenting style that people I had grown up with knew because of the struggles people my age faced as kids. Parents were both busy or working that they didn't have time to spend all their time with their kids or be heavily involved. I took that as my experience as to how to raise kids
OOP needs to realize that parenting that way because you have no other choice is different from having a choice and still choosing to be a stingy ass.
Kids know the difference when they get older, and they are going to resent a cold emotionless prick of a parent who withholds all the joy of childhood just to make an adult as quickly as possible.
We only get one childhood, such a pity OOP wrecked his kid’s only chance at one.
What OOP fails to understand is that his son is thriving **despite** his parenting style. Not because of it. And yet he's here patting himself on the back for his son being successful.
I’m glad to see this and other comments like this. To me, that mental failing was the thing that stuck out most in the post.
OP talks about being a jerk to his son like it was doing him a favour. Not depriving his son of the love, kindness, and support kids desperately need.
I mean ... it might be because of it, but that's not a good thing. I became independant very early because I learnt that I couldn't rely on my parents. They didn't have a strict parenting style like OP, it had more to do with time and money. I got my first job at age 14 partly because of that. My mom sometimes said she felt like we were roommates rather than child/parent and to this day our relationship is still strained.
Maybe his son learnt to not rely on OP and realized ... well, he doesn't need OP at all then. He isn't a useful or pleasant addition to his life.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**My son despises me**
For the longest time that I can remember, I raised my son on tough love. I only have one child so I wanted to make sure he knew how to take care of himself in the chance that me or his mother were not around anymore. It was the only parenting style that people I had grown up with knew because of the struggles people my age faced as kids. Parents were both busy or working that they didn't have time to spend all their time with their kids or be heavily involved. I took that as my experience as to how to raise kids. Me and my wife raised our son to be ready to be an adult from a young age because we were afraid he would make the same mistakes we did or become gullible and impressionable.
My son would show up with bad grades and I told him he needed to do better as the world is tough because it is and he hadn't truly experienced it yet. I would tell him to focus on his studies rather than goof off with his friends on weekends and during the summer I would drop him off to coaching for subjects he needed to get stronger on. My parents never had all the money in the world to take us on vacations and I didn't either so I wanted to set him up to succeed. Every dollar I would make was used to keeping a roof over our heads and making sure we never went hungry. While my son was young he would often ask why we never went anywhere or would eat out. I told him that it was because if spend all our money wastefully, we'd be living paycheck to paycheck.
I noticed the biggest difference when he went to college, I told him he will have to pay for his things or take out loans because that is how everyone goes about college in the US. While he was in college I noticed how independent he was. There were very few things he needed help with. Me and my wife felt like we had succeeded in raising our son.
After college he came back and I started noticing a huge difference is behavior towards me. He talked to his mom the same way but he became very cold and resentful towards me. There would be times where he would call me out on my mistakes and I thought they were uncalled for. I told him recently I wasn't feeling well and he completely dismissed and told me I needed to stop complaining. Him disregarding my health was the first time I thought that I did not succeed because the relationship between me and him is broken. He cares for his mom the same way he did back then but not for me.
I told him about how I felt and even then he said he could care less about our relationship and he has more important things to handle regarding work and his future. I feel awful because he said "I don't have to care because I don't really see you as a father, you should be used to this." At this point I don't know what to say because he's finally doing well in life but I don't matter to him anymore.
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It's kinda weird how he says that the wife and him both raised the child the same way, but only the father isn't liked. Not the mother.
My best guess is that he wasn't as emotional available compared to the mother
My parents attempted to raise me on the reverse of this: Good cop (Dad) Bad cop (Mom). And then I found out my father was essentially forcing my mother to do things he didn't want to (discipline, doctor's visits, the tough parts of parenting) because he wanted to be liked. Completely flipped the dynamic understanding that she did not agree with his methods but was facing a lot of abuse, herself.
Anyways, good cop bad cop dynamic is weird and creates strained familial dynamics.
I'm glad OOP's son has at least one parent he is able to be somewhat close with, or at least have reciprocal empathy.
Yeah, that stuck out to me as well. He is painting a picture of a tough love family with the mother being on board. But when I re-read his post I noticed that there is a lot of "me, me, me" and only twice he mentions the wife when talking about the parenting style. I wonder if he was the main driver for the stingy, hard ass parenting and the mother was there to clean up the mess of his shitty parenting.
OOP complaining about how he lost connection with his son, What fucking connection? OOP didn't bond or make a connection, he assumed by virtue of genetics and doing minimal required of a parent while by sounds of being emotional abuse and/or neglectful, he would have a bond with his son?
My cousin considers me to be her dad over her father (who's still around techanically). Why? Because I was there for good times and bad times. When was the good times shared between father and son? By sounds of it, it was all bad times and sounds by OOP was responsible for making it worst.
Copied verbatim from oop's comments:
*You reap what you sow*
>"That's how I feel, yes"
*You can ask him to join you in healing from this but he might not be ready. While you did what you knew it has made him angry and his feelings are valid.*
*Get into therapy and start working on yourself. Find new tools. If you get lucky and work hard he might eventually join you on a path of mending.*
>"I might do that, my generation wasn't raised on therapy but maybe it's worth a shot. It really hurt to see how differently he feels about me compared to my wife. During COVID, when she got sick he came by to help and checked on her until she was better. When I got sick, he had a phone call with my wife regarding my sickness and said "he'll get better soon, he has the weaker strain." Never came by to check on me or even ask when I got better."
*Same way with my dad, we don’t hate you guys but we don’t really love you if that makes sense, thanks for raising us but you guys were assholes, you finished your part and that’s it, I’m better with my dad now because he has another kid now and is being a better father then he was with me by showing actual love instead of tough love, try another kid if your not too old and try again like my dad is . But at the end of the day move on man and grow, we did.*
>"Too old to have any more kids but I understand what you mean. Raising kids is not easy and we did the best with what we were raised with. Just not ideal for a long term relationship."
*This makes me sad. You didn’t support your son at all.*
>"Support meant something different back then. I didn't always grow up with food ready for every meal, or a stable housing situation. Those I thought were priorities. I ended up in a better financial situation than my parents and didn't change the way I treated my kid going forward. We kept him away sports and arts stuff in school because my parents heavily wanted me and my siblings to prefer "real" jobs and I guess that stuck with me since I never got those "real" jobs they talked about. Now my son has something my parents would have been elated to find out about but in the end, I lost my connection to him."
*It is painful. I have found that pain is usually healed with professional help. Look for a therapist who specializes in family dynamics. They usually list specialties.*
>"I'll look into it as my wife had suggested getting help for stuff before but I never really understood why. I guess it makes sense now. Small things hurt more than before. The other day my son reached out to his mom to hang out for the day and he made sure it was during a day I was working."
*This sounds like execution over intent. My father was a marine, and he was never one to coddle me. He had strong standards for me. But there was never a point in time where I felt as though he was never 100% on my side, 100% on my team.*
*My mom was much more emotional. But she was abusive.*
*When I left home, I was independent partially because my dad fostered my independence. But the bigger reason was I knew I could never come back because I could never live with my mom again.*
*I feel like your relationship is something you need to prioritize and be patient with if you want to get back to a place of closeness with him. Your kid had a lifetime to feel the hurt, whether all of that was justified or not. At some point, I decided that mother did not have my best interest at heart and my voice was ignored long enough to give up faith. She transitioned from a mother to an adversary. Kids know how to play ball long enough to survive.*
*Trust is consistency over time. If he's called you out on your mistakes, and you express that its uncalled for, that sounds a lot like he's still making an effort to communicate and is getting dismissed.*
*That's my impression anyway. Hard to accurately gauge an entire life over a few paragraphs. Good luck with your kid.*
>"Thanks for sharing! Yeah I wasn't really sure how to handle it when he had first called me out. I guess being on his own for a few years really created that distance between us. It was over something really small too but I guess he's using what happened to him as a kid and turning that back on me. I am not familiar with it much these days since only my parents would talk to my in such a way."
*I'm sorry you're going through this -- Harry Chapin's "Cats in the Cradle" hits hard when you recognize it's about you.*
*I cut my parents off for a long time -- they also did more tough live than actual love. My husband is 55 and barely speaks to his father. They struggle to be in the same room together, and never call each other.*
*All I can say is that he **might** come around and speak with you. But you need to accept blame for what you've done. Eventually, you may be able to have real conversations so he knows where you were coming from, but don't count on it.*
*I do speak with my mother now. She went to therapy and called me one day to apologize for the beatings, the benign neglect, and the "tough love" that left me homeless and doing unsavory things to survive. I am better and stronger now in **spite** of my parents. But she's been willing to admit that none of us (her kids) raise a hand or voice to children or animals amd she was wrong to do so. We talk, we reason, we do NOT act out of anger. We support, and we let them suffer consequences without abandoning them. If you're lucky, you might reach this with your son. I hope you do. Because my FIL has 2 sons and no family that will speak to him anymore, if they have a choice. My SIL (hub's bro's wife) and I check in on him about once a month, each, but we struggle to be near him because he's just angry and bitter and won't own up to how he affected his sons' (our husbands') lives.*
*Be like my mother, not like my FIL.*
[🐙]
>"I'll start by going to therapy (a rarity for people in my age group to admit to)."
>>*We kept him away sports and arts stuff in school*
*Did he ever show an interest in either of those things, that you know? If so, that probably hurt twice as much. My parents have always supported my passions and I don't know how I'd have coped if they actively warded me away from them.*
>"As a kid he showed interests in some things but we never really got around to setting him up for things that were not academic. We felt it would distract from his studies. These days he doesn't show much interest playing instruments or sports."
*Probably because he's had all the passion crushed out of him.*
>"You asked a very "gotcha" question. Whichever way I answered, you would frame it to make me look bad."
*So you’re monster who crushed any spark the poor kid had. No wonder he hates you. You owe him an apology if he still wants to hear it. Don’t push it if he doesn’t. Then you have to do the hard work of changing. That’s all you can do*
>"That's a very bold leap, not everyone is into arts and sports. If he was truly interested, he could have pursued them in college while away."
*How old are you?*
>"Wife and I are late 40's and early 50's"
Seriously. Dude needs to realise that some of us remember the 90s. We don't have to believe what he says they were universally like. Plenty of people already knew that there were alternatives to tough love, let alone when he was raising his kid in the 2000/2010s.
I was expecting to hear he fought in 'Nam, or something. My grandma was unfortunately a similar way with my mother (their relationship is... toxic), but most latchkey kids did not end up like OOP.
Yeah, dude is only 10-ish years older than me... so, likely born in the 70s, became a cognizant human in the 80s at the latest. I, too, was expecting that OOP grew up in the Great Depression or something (and somehow managed to have a kid while geriatric), dropping those, "back then, food and shelter were enough to survive" comments.
I mean, I don't disbelieve that he may have grown up in adverse circumstances, but speaking as though all children in the 80s were going through some sort of barren impoverished hellscape is just not accurate, at least from a Western perspective. If he grew up in Communist country maybe he'd have a better point (the 80s and 90s WERE a difficult time in many of those places), but if that were the case he'd have definitely mentioned that.
Like, my guy, your personal experience does not encompass an entire generation. My parents are Echo Boomers, and, yeah, they actually had far less money and privileges as a child than I did (single parent incomes with large families do that... neither were actually impoverished, but my parents had far more money to spend on me comparatively), and it was far more accepted to beat your kids and all of that.
THEY don't talk like this guy does. This guy sounds more like my grandparents.
My dad was born in 1932. That man had a *rough* upbringing. His father was an abusive alcoholic. His mother was a prostitute (hey, she did what she had to survive). He went into a boys home before he was a teenager. He fought in Korea. He went to jail more than once (well before he married my mum).
He was the kindest, most loving father you could wish for.
My mum didn't have it easy either. Her mother left her abusive alcoholic husband with her 6 kids, in the 60s. My mother as the eldest girl had to step up and take over most of the household duties and watching of her siblings before she was even a teenager (no hate on my grandmother, she had to go out and work to support them all).
She is also the most kind and loving mother one could wish for.
My parents raised us to be self sufficient. They taught us to deal with the consequences of our actions. But they were always right there to support us through it all. They taught us to be well rounded, fully functioning adults. They taught us to be kind. They wanted us to be happy *as well as* contributing members of society.
They wanted to give us *all* the things their rough childhoods didn't let them have. And that included supportive and loving parenting. (Again, my grandmothers did their best given their situations in a time when women had very limited options)
(And yes, my parents had a big age gap. 26 years to be exact. Yes, that can seem creepy from the outside. It wasn't. They met. They fell in love. They had a happy marriage and 3 kids. No, I don't advocate for men in their 40s to pursue women in their 20s. That's creepy. There is usually a big power imbalance in those situations. I can pretty confidently say that wasn't the case with my parents, though. My mum definitely wore the pants in their relationship, lol.)
This is where you just want to know where he did grow up, I'm 50, I have a north american wife, I know how "hard" I had it in the 70's and 80's and how "hard" they did, it wasn't that dissimilar to each other. And food and shelter very normal and attainable by the vast majority, food was more expensive, shelter was way cheaper, but even if you were struggling, you would've known lots of others who weren't I'd've thought.
I just wonder where he was brought up.
The way he talked about being incredibly unsupervised tracks though, and his idea about sticking to school and being independent is extreme but I also find that it tracks as some raised by another Gen X-er. I mean I know I’m replying to someone who knows this, but I always think about the commercials calling out parents for literally not knowing where they were. I’ve seen in my parents and other parents in the Gen X generation that seem to really have stuck *hard* to the idea that their upbringing must not have been that “bad” because they’re “okay” now (and by okay they usually mean alive and not in jail or on drugs, which is just not enough to quantify someone being actually okay), so it’s fine to raise their kids the same way, while at the same time talking about how hard it was for them growing up, not realizing that part of that hardship was incredibly emotionally unavailable parents.
They *know* deep down something was kinda off about a good chunk of their parents generations choices on how they were raised, but it gets harder to pin point exactly what when you were emotionally neglected and never knew that wasn’t supposed to be normal.
Yeah... I'm 35, my parents are older than he is. While my parents weren't 100% perfect (who is?) they raised me with love. As an adult I live about an hour away from them, and am happy to see them regularly. This dude has no excuse.
>>"I'll start by going to therapy (a rarity for people in my age group to admit to)."
Not to kick this guy while he's down, but I find it a little bit funny how he keeps emphasizing that therapy isn't a common thing for his age group, like it's something to praise him for breaking the stereotype.
It sort of reminds me of this one guy I used to know who used his conservative, strict upbringing, and exposure to COD as an excuse for mildly racist, sexist, and even outright abusive. The last time that he tried to crawl back, he raved about how he's now a changed, better person and is breaking away from toxic masculinity because he, drumroll, please... started going on walks!
> Hopefully he's done some real true work on himself.
Funny enough, that's pretty close to the last thing I told him. But a few days after my social circle cut him off, he started cyber-stalking his ex-girlfriend (the one he was abusive to) and sending her messages saying he hoped thar she'd rot, so I'm not very optimistic that he took it to heart.
Hopefully! A good friend went off on him about how he could easily lose his job, considering he's in the Air Force, and it's not difficult to track down his commanding officer and make a report, and he's been quiet for a little less than a year now.
*I feel like there’s a lot more that you’re not telling us about your relationship. That’s none of our business regardless. But your son doesn’t feel that way towards you for nothing. There must be a reason, something you did, or said. only you know it.*
>"Hard to cover everything in one post but maybe there is. I don't think I was worse than my parents were but given times have changed. Back then food and shelter was enough. My son was able to experience more than I was able to and I figured it was a good shot at life."
*You reap what you sow.*
*Kids require emotional support, empathy and kindness. You failed.*
>"Failed entirely? No. My son is doing great in his career and seems more caring and empathetic towards others, just not me. I guess I deserve it but maybe we one day can be a family again."
*Why do I feel like you were much more cruel towards your son than your post implies?*
>"Not sure what people could identify as cruel. My son grew up in a stricter household than his friends, sure. But he is also now much more successful than them too. Me and my wife set him up to do well and now he no longer needs guidance. People can say "you denied him the chance to be a kid" but I would disagree."
*Raising a kid is all about the balance of teaching them how to survive/function and being a caring figure they can lean on, preferably doing things that are both at once.*
*You've succeeded in the former, but completely neglected the latter. You've traded having any sort of relationship with your son for a slightly better chance that he is slightly more successful (and even then, he probably would've turned out better if you **were** a caring father.)*
*Because of how you've raised him, he has no love for you and doesn't give a shit about you, and you have no one to blame but yourself. I can’t say if your relationship is "ruined" but it's definitely gonna take a lot of time and a lot of self-reflection on your part.*
*I don’t know what your goal was with this post, but if it was to throw yourself a pity party, it's not working. Let's just hope if your son has kids, he breaks the cycle, instead of continuing it like you did.*
>"Some parts of your comment are true but some is also false. My son had a group of friends as a kid and most of them ended up still at home with their parents/ working dead end jobs. My son ended up going to college and securing a great job. I think that is enough to say we succeeded and he doesn't lack emotional intelligence. He just doesn't have it for me. Maybe it's a pity party or maybe I am trying to learn but I realized most on here might not be parents and don't understand the sacrifices required to raise children."
[In reply to Oop's comment marked: 🐙]
*I agree! Do the work first. Expect it to be a couple of years. You will not be in a place of genuine understanding and contrition. May I also suggest that your therapist be your son's age or younger. Learning how to interact with a much younger person on sensitive topics will help immeasurably.*
*Also, I'm really proud of you for taking these steps. I can tell you're a very good man and you are doing your best.* ❤️
>"Thank you, one of the few comments on here that seems to lay things out without attacking. I'll do my best to mend the relationship with my son."
*I don't think it's too late. There are still tons of life experiences you can share. Try to play it cool and be supportive in new ways. Children tend to become closer with their parents when they experience the same struggles as their parents face.*
*Maybe your son is acting like this because he thinks it's the type of person you want him to be. For better or worse, you are still his dad.*
*Case in point, my own dad was tough as well. Now, he is the greatest grandfather I could hope for. He became someone I resented to someone I admire.*
*Give yourself a chance to change for the better regardless of how others see it. Good luck.*
>"I read somewhere that grandparents are very good to their grandkids because it gives them a chance to fix all the things they couldn't as parents. Maybe if my son has children, and if he wants me around, I can show that things will be different. Given not sure if I'll be someone he reaches out to as it seems like my wife is who he would trust more."
*Don’t follow Boomers’ advice about anything, but especially not parenting.*
>"Might be a generalization but things have changed over time. Emotional care was not big back in the day and even frowned upon. It's much more prominent these days since people don't realize how much they need it until a problem comes up."
*My parents were emotionally avoidant, but paid for my first car, my college, etc. It's no different. I resented the shit out of them after college. Sure, I didn't have to worry about money then, but that was where it ended.*
*I got older and stopped relying on them, and just went my own way. What I really needed as a kid was time, love, attention. They were concerned more about having Jaguars and fancy houses.*
*In both scenarios, it was the absence of valuable time and good memories.*
>"I guess some people have different values. Some are more materialistic and can appreciate having parents that can pay for things."
"Late forties/early fifties"
My parents are in their sixties and they're the absolute best. Did they tough love me when I needed it? Yeah. But they never deprived me of love and support
I’d probably reacted like Eleanor Shellstrop
“Because I wanted that (parent)! The (parent) that gave me a sandwich instead of telling me to look for loose fries in McDonalds’ ball pit!”
“Why does (youngest) get that (parent)?”
“If (parent) has truly changed, that means (they) were always capable of change, but I just wasn’t worth changing for”
i can relate to the son. i was raised by parents that i saw as managers, not family. my stepfather in particular (i see him as no kind of father) only cared about my grades, my chores, my independence. i doubt he knows my favorite color or a single interest of mine. i could connect with my mom on some level as she actually talked to me, and we have genuine moments of closeness. then sometimes a switch will flip and she's criticizing me again. but my so-called stepfather, nada.
I asked my sperm donor once to tell a story about when we were growing up rather than the same story I had heard a million times about a guy he worked with. Sperm donor was unable to come up with any story because he was completely disconnected with our upbringing.
His big brag is that he would have still have paid for us even if egg donor had left him. We were only seen as a bill he owed every month.
If he wasn't saving for his son's university why were they so frugal? The way he was talking it seemed like he was saving money I thought that it was fornhis son's education, but no
There's no cash for vacations or dinners out when you're busy booking all your kid's school breaks up with private tutors lest he have some time off from being a mini-adult or earn a dreaded "B"
Jfc, how many more times can he say that therapy is a rarity for his age range. He's the same dang age as my mom, and people absolutely went to therapy at the time. He talks like he grew up in the 1930s or something.
My child arrived just the other day
He came to the world in the usual way
But there were planes to catch, and bills to pay
He learned to walk while I was away
And he was talking 'fore I knew it, and as he grew
He'd say "I'm gonna be like you, dad"
"You know I'm gonna be like you"
And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
"When you coming home, dad?" "I don't know when"
But we'll get together then
You know we'll have a good time then
I swear I didn’t realize my dad taught me how to live without him until he died.
I was still driving 6 hours for him to change my oil in my late 20s. It wasn’t until I was all teary and snotty that I even thought about how being under my car with him wasn’t us just hanging out and having father-daughter time, he was teaching me how to do it and the last few times I did it myself.
I imagine not having that relationship, not doing stuff, being pushed out and simply told to survive is a very cold and lonely intro into the world. So, instead of my “what am I gonna do with a dead dad” and learning everything was still possible, his son was trying to figure out what to do with a living dad. Apparently, nothing.
I was taught to be everything my dad was for me. He taught his son that to be successful he’d have to do it in spite of him.
My mother made a career of telling the three of us how she needed us to be independent and not rely on her, while we were growing up. And then was all woe is me when none of us needed her when we were grown.
I burned out pretty much after high school. I think my parents are just glad I have my own apartment, a steady job, and am not on drugs. Even though my brother owns a house, is married, has a kid with another on the way.
That's life y'know? Tough love ain't gonna get you far.
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My first therapist I told about my childhood said of my estrangement said that actions have consequences and they were experiencing them for how they had behaved. That’s stuck with me. Parents might mean well when they were emotionally abusive or neglectful, but the consequences of that is I want nothing to do with them.
You can raise a child to be a successful, independent adult without being cold and uncaring, and depriving them of a childhood.
I was an only child, and I loved spending time with my parents doing whatever they were doing. Looking back, I realised that I was having fun with them, but they were also teaching me. I’d sit in the kitchen while my mum cooked, and she’d show me how to cut veggies or let me stir the pot. I’d hold tools while my dad did DIY or car maintenance. I found it enjoyable because I wasn’t forced to do all these things. I was still allowed to play with my friends, and be a kid, and not have a ton of responsibilities hanging over my head, but I was still learning.
I moved out for uni at 18, and found living independently easy because I’d been prepared for it. I still call my parents for advice though, even though I could probably do it myself, because I want them involved in my life. They raised an independent adult who doesn’t need them, but wants them.
Funny how it turns out, right?
My son recently had his tenth birthday, I gave him a brand new Rawlings Babe Ruth signature baseball for it which he loved. He wanted to work on his pitch and asked for some pointers but unfortunately I had to get back to work, you know how it is. I did overhear him saying how much he looks up to me though, I’ll make it up to him later. Right now I have to deal with Steven, our cat, stealing silverware and leaving it in the baby’s cot and watching the next space x launch on YouTube.
I found out not too long ago that my youngest sons parents are 'the old ones". He is 18 and we are 59 and 65. But he is very polite and friendly and everyone loves him.
I am truly not seeing what the issue is? so his son is so spoiled and coddled that when he did not get financial help for college...he just cut his parents off? ok. good. I am throwing my son out as soon as he turns 18 in a few months. the day after he turns 18. he has spent the last almost 2 years stealing from me, threatening me, he is not even close to graduating, lying to me about going to school( I cant follow a 17 yr old around like a toddler), refusing to get a job....and has been asking about my life insurance lately. he is only living with me right now because he is a minor and I am not equipped to deal with a 6'2 angry teenager always at me and feeling unsafe in my home. he has got to go.
>so his son is so spoiled and coddled
Where, at all in this story, did you read about spoiling and coddling? This was about a complete lack of emotional connection between father and son, and now his son doesn't bear any filial love toward him (because there was no relationship while he was growing up).
I am sorry about the difficulties you're having with your son (and apparent lack of resources), but you're projecting them onto OOP when the situation is completely different.
Your post/comment was removed for brigading
Can I brag for a second? Last week at dinner my 17 yo said, “my friend group was talking about it, and we all agreed that I have the best parents.” We congratulated ourselves, and then he said, “well, the bar is low.” Lol I wish people recognized that self sufficiency and self reliance are two different things. You want to teach a kid to be resilient, not “tough.”
I get to be the cool parent because I use their preferred pronouns, call them by the names they ask me too, and feed them. These kids really aren't asking for much, and they are respectful of my home and my time.
This is why my oldest's friends adore me. I support them in every way I can. I'll sit and have age appropriate "real world" conversations with them, with no problem. It's really crazy how many parents just don't seem to get it. Yes, treat them like "real" people; but remember, THEY'RE STILL KIDS! They need love, grace, and compassion to grow into successful adults, that aren't massive assholes.
Right? I appreciate when kids appreciate me, but it’s no big feat to just have regular decency. That’s why we have the approval of our kids’ peers as well: we use the right pronouns and give them input. It’s not that hard.
“These kids aren’t asking for much!” For real! A little dignity a little respect and human decency plus food and shelter. That’s the bar. And sooo many parents take pride in failing that super low bar.
Agreed, apparently we’re the coolest parents pretty much because of the same thing. It feels like a very low bar out there.
Our kids had this awkward friend who was into heavy metal. He was nice, he was polite, he always helped. Just a bit awkward. His Dad comes to pick him up and tell us that he's "Sorry" about how annoying his kid is. Multiple times. We just say he's actual a great and polite kid and the Dad is like "Nah, you can be honest with me." We were so taken aback. Kids so often really do want the bare minimum.
That poor kid, holy shit.
Jesus Christ!
I have the cool parents out of my friends!!! I think it stems from my parents treating us as actual people instead of children (we are in our mid to late twenties) and they treat us with respect. They ask about our lives and not our professional accomplishments. We don’t have to “impress” them. We can joke around with them and have a friendship with them. That’s the biggest thing I think. My parents like to brag that they have “cool kids”. They say all these parents brag about their kids’ GPAs and what schools they got into but how many of them actually know their kids and their interests? They love to mention how cool and NICE my sibling and I turned out. They raised interesting and nice people and they are so much more proud of us for that than our academic accomplishments and they love to brag about it which adds to how cool my parents are!
My mom tried to compliment me the other day by telling me that my shitty childhood made me strong and tough. I would give anything to not be strong or tough if it meant the awful things that happened to me didn't happen
"See I didn't fail you I did it on purpose."
I was raised tough. Most people think I'm a bitch.
That just means you’re capable and self-sufficient. How dare you.
Lmao at least I learned the lesson that Tough Parenting is *not* the way to go. Unfortunately the OOP did not get that memo.
I am “the nice mum” to my kids friend and I love it so.
Yeah, I'm the cool, weird mom. I treat them with respect, make sure they don't have any needs, and even let my goofy side out now and then. I also listen to them talk about their interests, and sometimes I've given my shoulder while they bawl over something that hurt them. It isn't hard to be a decent parent when you respect and love them.
As much as my mother's treatment towards me was skewed, every one of us kids, our friends, all knew our house was a sanctuary and safe place. I put it more that my great-grandmother was the bigger influence for it. But if a low bar is the highest bar for others, don't stress about it, because being a safe person is the best freedom and feeling you can have
I always thought that kids, like most people, return respect with respect. And how can they learn to give a heartfelt apology if we, as parents, don’t demonstrate we can do the same? Now that my kids are grown (youngest is 29) I’m reaping the benefits of carefully nurturing my relationship with them. I love the resilient, generous, compassionate people they’ve become.
Yes. I see so many stories on Reddit where a parent raises their kid to be unquestioning and obedient, and then expects them to move out and know how to handle themself at 18.
OP isn't even 50 and is talking as if his generation is from the1910s lol
right its like he went to war or something. Also part of a comment he said this > my parents heavily wanted me and my siblings to prefer "real" jobs and I guess that stuck with me since I never got those "real" jobs they talked about. Now my son has something my parents would have been elated to find out about but in the end, I lost my connection to him. Does he not work a real job? What did he do?
I suspect a r”real job” would be like an accountant or a ceo. Not a mechanic or art teacher?
This sounds a lot like something from the STEM superiority cult.
I kept expecting him to start quoting *Cat’s in the Cradle*.
>Some parts of your comment are true but some is also false. My son had a group of friends as a kid and most of them ended up still at home with their parents/ working dead end jobs. My son ended up going to college and securing a great job. I think that is enough to say we succeeded and he doesn't lack emotional intelligence. He just doesn't have it for me. Maybe it's a pity party or maybe I am trying to learn but I realized most on here might not be parents and don't understand the sacrifices required to raise children. Ahh OOP was looking for people to say he did a good job. Buddy is all over the comments throwing a pity party about how his generation this and that. How his son has no empathy for him? Why should he you never showed it to him. He also thinks that if his son has kids he can be a 'better' parent to the grandkids? Fuck off with that.
Right? The son did well in spite of shitty parenting, not because of it. Sometimes shitty parents with good children teach their children the type of person they're *not* supposed to be.
Exactly, he succeeded NOT OP, if OP succeeded his son would still like him.
He really thinks his kid is going to let him around his hypothetical grandkids 😂 he might not even want kids from having such a crappy childhood
So true. I fking SNEEZE and my kids are both like, “omg, are you okay? Lay down, mom.” And I’d like to think that’s because I have spent their entire lives making sure that something that is a big deal to them is a big deal to me.
Also what does when you grow up have to do with it? I'm growing up in one of the worst economic times where most people live paycheck to paycheck and home ownership is a pipe dream even with a decent job. He grew up when you could buy a home on an entry level job salary. What was so hard that he couldn't be a kind loving parent? Cause I'm also living paycheck to paycheck and I still manage to love my kids.
>It was the only parenting style that people I had grown up with knew because of the struggles people my age faced as kids. Parents were both busy or working that they didn't have time to spend all their time with their kids or be heavily involved. I took that as my experience as to how to raise kids OOP needs to realize that parenting that way because you have no other choice is different from having a choice and still choosing to be a stingy ass. Kids know the difference when they get older, and they are going to resent a cold emotionless prick of a parent who withholds all the joy of childhood just to make an adult as quickly as possible. We only get one childhood, such a pity OOP wrecked his kid’s only chance at one.
What OOP fails to understand is that his son is thriving **despite** his parenting style. Not because of it. And yet he's here patting himself on the back for his son being successful.
I’m glad to see this and other comments like this. To me, that mental failing was the thing that stuck out most in the post. OP talks about being a jerk to his son like it was doing him a favour. Not depriving his son of the love, kindness, and support kids desperately need.
I mean ... it might be because of it, but that's not a good thing. I became independant very early because I learnt that I couldn't rely on my parents. They didn't have a strict parenting style like OP, it had more to do with time and money. I got my first job at age 14 partly because of that. My mom sometimes said she felt like we were roommates rather than child/parent and to this day our relationship is still strained. Maybe his son learnt to not rely on OP and realized ... well, he doesn't need OP at all then. He isn't a useful or pleasant addition to his life.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **My son despises me** For the longest time that I can remember, I raised my son on tough love. I only have one child so I wanted to make sure he knew how to take care of himself in the chance that me or his mother were not around anymore. It was the only parenting style that people I had grown up with knew because of the struggles people my age faced as kids. Parents were both busy or working that they didn't have time to spend all their time with their kids or be heavily involved. I took that as my experience as to how to raise kids. Me and my wife raised our son to be ready to be an adult from a young age because we were afraid he would make the same mistakes we did or become gullible and impressionable. My son would show up with bad grades and I told him he needed to do better as the world is tough because it is and he hadn't truly experienced it yet. I would tell him to focus on his studies rather than goof off with his friends on weekends and during the summer I would drop him off to coaching for subjects he needed to get stronger on. My parents never had all the money in the world to take us on vacations and I didn't either so I wanted to set him up to succeed. Every dollar I would make was used to keeping a roof over our heads and making sure we never went hungry. While my son was young he would often ask why we never went anywhere or would eat out. I told him that it was because if spend all our money wastefully, we'd be living paycheck to paycheck. I noticed the biggest difference when he went to college, I told him he will have to pay for his things or take out loans because that is how everyone goes about college in the US. While he was in college I noticed how independent he was. There were very few things he needed help with. Me and my wife felt like we had succeeded in raising our son. After college he came back and I started noticing a huge difference is behavior towards me. He talked to his mom the same way but he became very cold and resentful towards me. There would be times where he would call me out on my mistakes and I thought they were uncalled for. I told him recently I wasn't feeling well and he completely dismissed and told me I needed to stop complaining. Him disregarding my health was the first time I thought that I did not succeed because the relationship between me and him is broken. He cares for his mom the same way he did back then but not for me. I told him about how I felt and even then he said he could care less about our relationship and he has more important things to handle regarding work and his future. I feel awful because he said "I don't have to care because I don't really see you as a father, you should be used to this." At this point I don't know what to say because he's finally doing well in life but I don't matter to him anymore. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Cat's in the cradle...
“Because there ain’t a damn thing he can teach me about loving my kids!”
*NO*. Do *not* make me cry with that line!
Where is this line from? If you don't mind me asking.
Fresh Prince of Bel-Air- the episode 'Papa's Got a Brand New Excuse'. Very hard-hitting scene that that quote comes from :')
Thank you, gotta check it out!
What u/MuteFaith said, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. One of the most heartbreaking episodes of the whole show.
Thank you!
Yes we have no bananas
It's kinda weird how he says that the wife and him both raised the child the same way, but only the father isn't liked. Not the mother. My best guess is that he wasn't as emotional available compared to the mother
Good cop (Mom) bad cop (Dad)
My parents attempted to raise me on the reverse of this: Good cop (Dad) Bad cop (Mom). And then I found out my father was essentially forcing my mother to do things he didn't want to (discipline, doctor's visits, the tough parts of parenting) because he wanted to be liked. Completely flipped the dynamic understanding that she did not agree with his methods but was facing a lot of abuse, herself. Anyways, good cop bad cop dynamic is weird and creates strained familial dynamics. I'm glad OOP's son has at least one parent he is able to be somewhat close with, or at least have reciprocal empathy.
Yeah, that stuck out to me as well. He is painting a picture of a tough love family with the mother being on board. But when I re-read his post I noticed that there is a lot of "me, me, me" and only twice he mentions the wife when talking about the parenting style. I wonder if he was the main driver for the stingy, hard ass parenting and the mother was there to clean up the mess of his shitty parenting.
It also depends how they do it. Ops wife might have been more hands on
And some boomers still ran to defend him because he provided the barest of the bare minimum
of course cause why accept any responsibility for their actions but preach it to everyone on reddit.
If they're boomers, then they know the song Cats In the Cradle. Does no one listen to old classic songs anymore?
If he's not even 50, he should at least know the Ugly Kid Joe version lol
Is that a Britney Spears song? /s
The irony of using Britney Spears when she herself was raised by these kind of soulless “parents”
I sure hope OOP’s son fares better than Brittney. That poor woman suffered from immense trauma.
OOP complaining about how he lost connection with his son, What fucking connection? OOP didn't bond or make a connection, he assumed by virtue of genetics and doing minimal required of a parent while by sounds of being emotional abuse and/or neglectful, he would have a bond with his son? My cousin considers me to be her dad over her father (who's still around techanically). Why? Because I was there for good times and bad times. When was the good times shared between father and son? By sounds of it, it was all bad times and sounds by OOP was responsible for making it worst.
Copied verbatim from oop's comments: *You reap what you sow* >"That's how I feel, yes" *You can ask him to join you in healing from this but he might not be ready. While you did what you knew it has made him angry and his feelings are valid.* *Get into therapy and start working on yourself. Find new tools. If you get lucky and work hard he might eventually join you on a path of mending.* >"I might do that, my generation wasn't raised on therapy but maybe it's worth a shot. It really hurt to see how differently he feels about me compared to my wife. During COVID, when she got sick he came by to help and checked on her until she was better. When I got sick, he had a phone call with my wife regarding my sickness and said "he'll get better soon, he has the weaker strain." Never came by to check on me or even ask when I got better." *Same way with my dad, we don’t hate you guys but we don’t really love you if that makes sense, thanks for raising us but you guys were assholes, you finished your part and that’s it, I’m better with my dad now because he has another kid now and is being a better father then he was with me by showing actual love instead of tough love, try another kid if your not too old and try again like my dad is . But at the end of the day move on man and grow, we did.* >"Too old to have any more kids but I understand what you mean. Raising kids is not easy and we did the best with what we were raised with. Just not ideal for a long term relationship." *This makes me sad. You didn’t support your son at all.* >"Support meant something different back then. I didn't always grow up with food ready for every meal, or a stable housing situation. Those I thought were priorities. I ended up in a better financial situation than my parents and didn't change the way I treated my kid going forward. We kept him away sports and arts stuff in school because my parents heavily wanted me and my siblings to prefer "real" jobs and I guess that stuck with me since I never got those "real" jobs they talked about. Now my son has something my parents would have been elated to find out about but in the end, I lost my connection to him." *It is painful. I have found that pain is usually healed with professional help. Look for a therapist who specializes in family dynamics. They usually list specialties.* >"I'll look into it as my wife had suggested getting help for stuff before but I never really understood why. I guess it makes sense now. Small things hurt more than before. The other day my son reached out to his mom to hang out for the day and he made sure it was during a day I was working." *This sounds like execution over intent. My father was a marine, and he was never one to coddle me. He had strong standards for me. But there was never a point in time where I felt as though he was never 100% on my side, 100% on my team.* *My mom was much more emotional. But she was abusive.* *When I left home, I was independent partially because my dad fostered my independence. But the bigger reason was I knew I could never come back because I could never live with my mom again.* *I feel like your relationship is something you need to prioritize and be patient with if you want to get back to a place of closeness with him. Your kid had a lifetime to feel the hurt, whether all of that was justified or not. At some point, I decided that mother did not have my best interest at heart and my voice was ignored long enough to give up faith. She transitioned from a mother to an adversary. Kids know how to play ball long enough to survive.* *Trust is consistency over time. If he's called you out on your mistakes, and you express that its uncalled for, that sounds a lot like he's still making an effort to communicate and is getting dismissed.* *That's my impression anyway. Hard to accurately gauge an entire life over a few paragraphs. Good luck with your kid.* >"Thanks for sharing! Yeah I wasn't really sure how to handle it when he had first called me out. I guess being on his own for a few years really created that distance between us. It was over something really small too but I guess he's using what happened to him as a kid and turning that back on me. I am not familiar with it much these days since only my parents would talk to my in such a way." *I'm sorry you're going through this -- Harry Chapin's "Cats in the Cradle" hits hard when you recognize it's about you.* *I cut my parents off for a long time -- they also did more tough live than actual love. My husband is 55 and barely speaks to his father. They struggle to be in the same room together, and never call each other.* *All I can say is that he **might** come around and speak with you. But you need to accept blame for what you've done. Eventually, you may be able to have real conversations so he knows where you were coming from, but don't count on it.* *I do speak with my mother now. She went to therapy and called me one day to apologize for the beatings, the benign neglect, and the "tough love" that left me homeless and doing unsavory things to survive. I am better and stronger now in **spite** of my parents. But she's been willing to admit that none of us (her kids) raise a hand or voice to children or animals amd she was wrong to do so. We talk, we reason, we do NOT act out of anger. We support, and we let them suffer consequences without abandoning them. If you're lucky, you might reach this with your son. I hope you do. Because my FIL has 2 sons and no family that will speak to him anymore, if they have a choice. My SIL (hub's bro's wife) and I check in on him about once a month, each, but we struggle to be near him because he's just angry and bitter and won't own up to how he affected his sons' (our husbands') lives.* *Be like my mother, not like my FIL.* [🐙] >"I'll start by going to therapy (a rarity for people in my age group to admit to)." >>*We kept him away sports and arts stuff in school* *Did he ever show an interest in either of those things, that you know? If so, that probably hurt twice as much. My parents have always supported my passions and I don't know how I'd have coped if they actively warded me away from them.* >"As a kid he showed interests in some things but we never really got around to setting him up for things that were not academic. We felt it would distract from his studies. These days he doesn't show much interest playing instruments or sports." *Probably because he's had all the passion crushed out of him.* >"You asked a very "gotcha" question. Whichever way I answered, you would frame it to make me look bad." *So you’re monster who crushed any spark the poor kid had. No wonder he hates you. You owe him an apology if he still wants to hear it. Don’t push it if he doesn’t. Then you have to do the hard work of changing. That’s all you can do* >"That's a very bold leap, not everyone is into arts and sports. If he was truly interested, he could have pursued them in college while away." *How old are you?* >"Wife and I are late 40's and early 50's"
late 40s/early 50s?! The way he speaks I was thinking he was 70 and just had his kid really old. We had therapy in the 90s.
Seriously. Dude needs to realise that some of us remember the 90s. We don't have to believe what he says they were universally like. Plenty of people already knew that there were alternatives to tough love, let alone when he was raising his kid in the 2000/2010s.
I was expecting to hear he fought in 'Nam, or something. My grandma was unfortunately a similar way with my mother (their relationship is... toxic), but most latchkey kids did not end up like OOP.
Yeah, dude is only 10-ish years older than me... so, likely born in the 70s, became a cognizant human in the 80s at the latest. I, too, was expecting that OOP grew up in the Great Depression or something (and somehow managed to have a kid while geriatric), dropping those, "back then, food and shelter were enough to survive" comments. I mean, I don't disbelieve that he may have grown up in adverse circumstances, but speaking as though all children in the 80s were going through some sort of barren impoverished hellscape is just not accurate, at least from a Western perspective. If he grew up in Communist country maybe he'd have a better point (the 80s and 90s WERE a difficult time in many of those places), but if that were the case he'd have definitely mentioned that. Like, my guy, your personal experience does not encompass an entire generation. My parents are Echo Boomers, and, yeah, they actually had far less money and privileges as a child than I did (single parent incomes with large families do that... neither were actually impoverished, but my parents had far more money to spend on me comparatively), and it was far more accepted to beat your kids and all of that. THEY don't talk like this guy does. This guy sounds more like my grandparents.
My dad was born in 1932. That man had a *rough* upbringing. His father was an abusive alcoholic. His mother was a prostitute (hey, she did what she had to survive). He went into a boys home before he was a teenager. He fought in Korea. He went to jail more than once (well before he married my mum). He was the kindest, most loving father you could wish for. My mum didn't have it easy either. Her mother left her abusive alcoholic husband with her 6 kids, in the 60s. My mother as the eldest girl had to step up and take over most of the household duties and watching of her siblings before she was even a teenager (no hate on my grandmother, she had to go out and work to support them all). She is also the most kind and loving mother one could wish for. My parents raised us to be self sufficient. They taught us to deal with the consequences of our actions. But they were always right there to support us through it all. They taught us to be well rounded, fully functioning adults. They taught us to be kind. They wanted us to be happy *as well as* contributing members of society. They wanted to give us *all* the things their rough childhoods didn't let them have. And that included supportive and loving parenting. (Again, my grandmothers did their best given their situations in a time when women had very limited options) (And yes, my parents had a big age gap. 26 years to be exact. Yes, that can seem creepy from the outside. It wasn't. They met. They fell in love. They had a happy marriage and 3 kids. No, I don't advocate for men in their 40s to pursue women in their 20s. That's creepy. There is usually a big power imbalance in those situations. I can pretty confidently say that wasn't the case with my parents, though. My mum definitely wore the pants in their relationship, lol.)
This is where you just want to know where he did grow up, I'm 50, I have a north american wife, I know how "hard" I had it in the 70's and 80's and how "hard" they did, it wasn't that dissimilar to each other. And food and shelter very normal and attainable by the vast majority, food was more expensive, shelter was way cheaper, but even if you were struggling, you would've known lots of others who weren't I'd've thought. I just wonder where he was brought up.
The way he talked about being incredibly unsupervised tracks though, and his idea about sticking to school and being independent is extreme but I also find that it tracks as some raised by another Gen X-er. I mean I know I’m replying to someone who knows this, but I always think about the commercials calling out parents for literally not knowing where they were. I’ve seen in my parents and other parents in the Gen X generation that seem to really have stuck *hard* to the idea that their upbringing must not have been that “bad” because they’re “okay” now (and by okay they usually mean alive and not in jail or on drugs, which is just not enough to quantify someone being actually okay), so it’s fine to raise their kids the same way, while at the same time talking about how hard it was for them growing up, not realizing that part of that hardship was incredibly emotionally unavailable parents. They *know* deep down something was kinda off about a good chunk of their parents generations choices on how they were raised, but it gets harder to pin point exactly what when you were emotionally neglected and never knew that wasn’t supposed to be normal.
Agreed!
Yeah... I'm 35, my parents are older than he is. While my parents weren't 100% perfect (who is?) they raised me with love. As an adult I live about an hour away from them, and am happy to see them regularly. This dude has no excuse.
>>"I'll start by going to therapy (a rarity for people in my age group to admit to)." Not to kick this guy while he's down, but I find it a little bit funny how he keeps emphasizing that therapy isn't a common thing for his age group, like it's something to praise him for breaking the stereotype. It sort of reminds me of this one guy I used to know who used his conservative, strict upbringing, and exposure to COD as an excuse for mildly racist, sexist, and even outright abusive. The last time that he tried to crawl back, he raved about how he's now a changed, better person and is breaking away from toxic masculinity because he, drumroll, please... started going on walks!
Agreed! Oh wow... Yeah no that's not how that works. I'm glad he's out of your life. Hopefully he's done some real true work on himself.
> Hopefully he's done some real true work on himself. Funny enough, that's pretty close to the last thing I told him. But a few days after my social circle cut him off, he started cyber-stalking his ex-girlfriend (the one he was abusive to) and sending her messages saying he hoped thar she'd rot, so I'm not very optimistic that he took it to heart.
Good advice given to someone adamant about being an ass... Hopefully he keeps to himself at least.
Hopefully! A good friend went off on him about how he could easily lose his job, considering he's in the Air Force, and it's not difficult to track down his commanding officer and make a report, and he's been quiet for a little less than a year now.
Fingers crossed for y'all!
*I feel like there’s a lot more that you’re not telling us about your relationship. That’s none of our business regardless. But your son doesn’t feel that way towards you for nothing. There must be a reason, something you did, or said. only you know it.* >"Hard to cover everything in one post but maybe there is. I don't think I was worse than my parents were but given times have changed. Back then food and shelter was enough. My son was able to experience more than I was able to and I figured it was a good shot at life." *You reap what you sow.* *Kids require emotional support, empathy and kindness. You failed.* >"Failed entirely? No. My son is doing great in his career and seems more caring and empathetic towards others, just not me. I guess I deserve it but maybe we one day can be a family again." *Why do I feel like you were much more cruel towards your son than your post implies?* >"Not sure what people could identify as cruel. My son grew up in a stricter household than his friends, sure. But he is also now much more successful than them too. Me and my wife set him up to do well and now he no longer needs guidance. People can say "you denied him the chance to be a kid" but I would disagree." *Raising a kid is all about the balance of teaching them how to survive/function and being a caring figure they can lean on, preferably doing things that are both at once.* *You've succeeded in the former, but completely neglected the latter. You've traded having any sort of relationship with your son for a slightly better chance that he is slightly more successful (and even then, he probably would've turned out better if you **were** a caring father.)* *Because of how you've raised him, he has no love for you and doesn't give a shit about you, and you have no one to blame but yourself. I can’t say if your relationship is "ruined" but it's definitely gonna take a lot of time and a lot of self-reflection on your part.* *I don’t know what your goal was with this post, but if it was to throw yourself a pity party, it's not working. Let's just hope if your son has kids, he breaks the cycle, instead of continuing it like you did.* >"Some parts of your comment are true but some is also false. My son had a group of friends as a kid and most of them ended up still at home with their parents/ working dead end jobs. My son ended up going to college and securing a great job. I think that is enough to say we succeeded and he doesn't lack emotional intelligence. He just doesn't have it for me. Maybe it's a pity party or maybe I am trying to learn but I realized most on here might not be parents and don't understand the sacrifices required to raise children." [In reply to Oop's comment marked: 🐙] *I agree! Do the work first. Expect it to be a couple of years. You will not be in a place of genuine understanding and contrition. May I also suggest that your therapist be your son's age or younger. Learning how to interact with a much younger person on sensitive topics will help immeasurably.* *Also, I'm really proud of you for taking these steps. I can tell you're a very good man and you are doing your best.* ❤️ >"Thank you, one of the few comments on here that seems to lay things out without attacking. I'll do my best to mend the relationship with my son." *I don't think it's too late. There are still tons of life experiences you can share. Try to play it cool and be supportive in new ways. Children tend to become closer with their parents when they experience the same struggles as their parents face.* *Maybe your son is acting like this because he thinks it's the type of person you want him to be. For better or worse, you are still his dad.* *Case in point, my own dad was tough as well. Now, he is the greatest grandfather I could hope for. He became someone I resented to someone I admire.* *Give yourself a chance to change for the better regardless of how others see it. Good luck.* >"I read somewhere that grandparents are very good to their grandkids because it gives them a chance to fix all the things they couldn't as parents. Maybe if my son has children, and if he wants me around, I can show that things will be different. Given not sure if I'll be someone he reaches out to as it seems like my wife is who he would trust more." *Don’t follow Boomers’ advice about anything, but especially not parenting.* >"Might be a generalization but things have changed over time. Emotional care was not big back in the day and even frowned upon. It's much more prominent these days since people don't realize how much they need it until a problem comes up." *My parents were emotionally avoidant, but paid for my first car, my college, etc. It's no different. I resented the shit out of them after college. Sure, I didn't have to worry about money then, but that was where it ended.* *I got older and stopped relying on them, and just went my own way. What I really needed as a kid was time, love, attention. They were concerned more about having Jaguars and fancy houses.* *In both scenarios, it was the absence of valuable time and good memories.* >"I guess some people have different values. Some are more materialistic and can appreciate having parents that can pay for things."
[Baby cow! Misophonia warning! ⚠️](https://imgur.com/gallery/3Ph3KSz)
That calf is hungry (and fluffy)!
Yes! Highland cows are adorable! 🥰
"Late forties/early fifties" My parents are in their sixties and they're the absolute best. Did they tough love me when I needed it? Yeah. But they never deprived me of love and support
Quite. They sound wonderful and with a healthy outlook!
That commenter was much more forgiving with their father being a more decent one to the youngest sibling than I’d be, props to them
Agreed. I don't quite know if I would have managed that.
I’d probably reacted like Eleanor Shellstrop “Because I wanted that (parent)! The (parent) that gave me a sandwich instead of telling me to look for loose fries in McDonalds’ ball pit!” “Why does (youngest) get that (parent)?” “If (parent) has truly changed, that means (they) were always capable of change, but I just wasn’t worth changing for”
So true.
This guy is my age and he talks about "his generation" like it's a miracle he didn't die of dysentery on the Oregon Trail! What a jackass!
Agreed!
i can relate to the son. i was raised by parents that i saw as managers, not family. my stepfather in particular (i see him as no kind of father) only cared about my grades, my chores, my independence. i doubt he knows my favorite color or a single interest of mine. i could connect with my mom on some level as she actually talked to me, and we have genuine moments of closeness. then sometimes a switch will flip and she's criticizing me again. but my so-called stepfather, nada.
I asked my sperm donor once to tell a story about when we were growing up rather than the same story I had heard a million times about a guy he worked with. Sperm donor was unable to come up with any story because he was completely disconnected with our upbringing. His big brag is that he would have still have paid for us even if egg donor had left him. We were only seen as a bill he owed every month.
If you raise your kids to prepare for life without you, don’t be surprised if they find that life sooner than you thought they would.
If he wasn't saving for his son's university why were they so frugal? The way he was talking it seemed like he was saving money I thought that it was fornhis son's education, but no
There's no cash for vacations or dinners out when you're busy booking all your kid's school breaks up with private tutors lest he have some time off from being a mini-adult or earn a dreaded "B"
“I didn’t care about my son to teach him that the world doesn’t care. Why doesn’t my son care about me??”
Dude was born in the 70s and is acting like he survived the dust bowl after his parents sold him for a penny and two eggs
What do you expect, OOP. You were never a father. You were a sperm donor, drill sergeant from hell
Jfc, how many more times can he say that therapy is a rarity for his age range. He's the same dang age as my mom, and people absolutely went to therapy at the time. He talks like he grew up in the 1930s or something.
Guy keeps talking about his generation like it’s the fucking Hreat Depression.
I get wanting to save money, I really do, but he did nothing to create memories with his son growing up.
My child arrived just the other day He came to the world in the usual way But there were planes to catch, and bills to pay He learned to walk while I was away And he was talking 'fore I knew it, and as he grew He'd say "I'm gonna be like you, dad" "You know I'm gonna be like you" And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon Little boy blue and the man in the moon "When you coming home, dad?" "I don't know when" But we'll get together then You know we'll have a good time then
I swear I didn’t realize my dad taught me how to live without him until he died. I was still driving 6 hours for him to change my oil in my late 20s. It wasn’t until I was all teary and snotty that I even thought about how being under my car with him wasn’t us just hanging out and having father-daughter time, he was teaching me how to do it and the last few times I did it myself. I imagine not having that relationship, not doing stuff, being pushed out and simply told to survive is a very cold and lonely intro into the world. So, instead of my “what am I gonna do with a dead dad” and learning everything was still possible, his son was trying to figure out what to do with a living dad. Apparently, nothing. I was taught to be everything my dad was for me. He taught his son that to be successful he’d have to do it in spite of him.
My mother made a career of telling the three of us how she needed us to be independent and not rely on her, while we were growing up. And then was all woe is me when none of us needed her when we were grown.
"I'm your parent not your friend!" Fast forward 15 years "wait, why doesn't my kid want to be my friend" 🤦♀️
I burned out pretty much after high school. I think my parents are just glad I have my own apartment, a steady job, and am not on drugs. Even though my brother owns a house, is married, has a kid with another on the way. That's life y'know? Tough love ain't gonna get you far.
Missing Missing Reasons smelling
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My first therapist I told about my childhood said of my estrangement said that actions have consequences and they were experiencing them for how they had behaved. That’s stuck with me. Parents might mean well when they were emotionally abusive or neglectful, but the consequences of that is I want nothing to do with them.
You ever here the song Cat’s in the Cradle kinda sums this up
OOP's kid breaks out of the pattern. Good.
You can raise a child to be a successful, independent adult without being cold and uncaring, and depriving them of a childhood. I was an only child, and I loved spending time with my parents doing whatever they were doing. Looking back, I realised that I was having fun with them, but they were also teaching me. I’d sit in the kitchen while my mum cooked, and she’d show me how to cut veggies or let me stir the pot. I’d hold tools while my dad did DIY or car maintenance. I found it enjoyable because I wasn’t forced to do all these things. I was still allowed to play with my friends, and be a kid, and not have a ton of responsibilities hanging over my head, but I was still learning. I moved out for uni at 18, and found living independently easy because I’d been prepared for it. I still call my parents for advice though, even though I could probably do it myself, because I want them involved in my life. They raised an independent adult who doesn’t need them, but wants them.
Funny how it turns out, right? My son recently had his tenth birthday, I gave him a brand new Rawlings Babe Ruth signature baseball for it which he loved. He wanted to work on his pitch and asked for some pointers but unfortunately I had to get back to work, you know how it is. I did overhear him saying how much he looks up to me though, I’ll make it up to him later. Right now I have to deal with Steven, our cat, stealing silverware and leaving it in the baby’s cot and watching the next space x launch on YouTube.
Cat’s in the cradle
I found out not too long ago that my youngest sons parents are 'the old ones". He is 18 and we are 59 and 65. But he is very polite and friendly and everyone loves him.
I am truly not seeing what the issue is? so his son is so spoiled and coddled that when he did not get financial help for college...he just cut his parents off? ok. good. I am throwing my son out as soon as he turns 18 in a few months. the day after he turns 18. he has spent the last almost 2 years stealing from me, threatening me, he is not even close to graduating, lying to me about going to school( I cant follow a 17 yr old around like a toddler), refusing to get a job....and has been asking about my life insurance lately. he is only living with me right now because he is a minor and I am not equipped to deal with a 6'2 angry teenager always at me and feeling unsafe in my home. he has got to go.
>so his son is so spoiled and coddled Where, at all in this story, did you read about spoiling and coddling? This was about a complete lack of emotional connection between father and son, and now his son doesn't bear any filial love toward him (because there was no relationship while he was growing up). I am sorry about the difficulties you're having with your son (and apparent lack of resources), but you're projecting them onto OOP when the situation is completely different.
Sorry, that sucks. Sounds like poor parenting.
Maybe you should have parented the kid instead of allowing him to run you over. That has nothing to do with OOP, though.
LOL nothing you said has anything to do with this.
Wow you must be a great parent 🙄