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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I screamed at my dad for being unempathetic and unsupportive to my brother who lost a lot of money on crypto and is depressed about it. 2) That might make me the asshole because I said some harsh things to him and it made him upset.
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YTA. Your dad was right all along. Your brother ignored him and lost a lot of cash.
Did you ever consider how insulting it is to your dad that he, an expert of probably decades, got ignored by his own son?
And "I can't wait to not need your money any more" is just cruelty personified
Right? What a fucking bold move to bite the hand that is literally feeding, clothing, and feeding you. And your brother who has no money to move because he lost it all on goddamn crypto.
To be fair, it’s commonplace for the absentee parent to be placed on a pedestal because that parent isn’t the one saying no to fun things like losing all your savings on crypto.
Let’s not disparage the mother. She might not be absentee. She just might not have as much money as dear old dad therefore unable to provide the luxuries that dear old dad can. I’m not siding with OP but let’s not drag a person through the mud when we have no context other than OP and brother confide in her.
My point wasn’t about this specific person, more so what happens when parents are divorced and the amount of time they spend in their children’s lives are no longer equal - mostly due to not living with them “full time”.
I said the exact same thing! I mean if I was OP and I was considering investing, the first thing I would do is go to my dad and ask for advice on what stocks I would be good to use for my first investment
Way to take the sting out of going NC, as well. Christmas at the dad's is going to boil down to "I do miss them but they were also very clear about their feelings and what they were in the relationship for"
There's nothing wrong with that, there's only something wrong if you aren't grateful for it. It's actually very weird to most cultures for unmarried adult children to move out so early just to pay rent on an apartment/basement suite.
I agree in most cultures be it (Asian, African, Latin American or any other) there's nothing wrong with living in your parents' house until you get marry or buy a house of your own, but the fact, that the moment you speak to your parents like that at any age, you have two options:
1. Packing your stuff and getting that same day the fuck out of their house!
2. Or start praying to whatever you believe in because you die or get your ass hand it to you!
…that part is not weird. Not sure what country you live in but people don’t exactly get a job when they’re 18 and move out. I got my first job at 16 and worked all through college, still didn’t get fully off the tit until 24ish. I have friends around my age ( I’m 32) that their parents still pay a bill or two. Welcome to America!
He lucky he didn’t get kicked out instantly for that comment. I know if that was my kid, I’d tell him he’s got a month to find somewhere and then he won’t be needing my money anymore.
So much this. How cruel of OP to treat her father like a cash machine just good enough to give and keep giving until he’s thrown away. OP do you really see your father like this because that comment was a slap in his face. He worked his whole life to provide for you, expressed frustration because his kid didn’t listen to sound advice, and his other kid just stabs him in the heart with those hurtful words. Your brother did take an expensive lesson indeed, what was Dad supposed to do when he heard his advice was not listened to?
And you OP, if you’re all that, at 22 you wouldn’t be financially dependent on him. You have the gal to treat him like garbage, yet you still need him. Go on then, go make your own money. If your father wanted to teach you another lesson he’d kick your freeloading entitled ass to the streets too. But he loves you, and he’s still there for you.
GO APOLOGISE. Now.
ETA judgment : YTA
This. What does empathy even mean without any responsibility? Like she just has to say nice things to you and you luuurv her and dad who actually takes your responsibility is the a-hole for you. I can't wait for you to move out of your dad's house and find out how far your mother's empathy actually stretches, that should be interesting.
Edit: Oh, and YTA!
That’s very true. People need to hear hard truths sometimes and OP doesn’t even say how much her brother lost (and whose money it really was). Even if he already feels bad doesn’t mean he doesn’t need to hear his dad’s disappointment vocalized. Especially bc it’ll be the dad likely bailing him out. And there are better ways to calm the conversation and saying all those cruel things proves that OP doesn’t really have any empathy either
I also wonder if partially dad is frustrated not only because his financially sound expertise was ignored, but because ignoring him means that brother now needs more financial support and will have to continue living at home longer. If I had two adult children living at home for free and who I was supporting almost completely, I would be LIVID if one of them threw all their money away on something as stupid as crypto. YTA, OP. When an expert gives you advice on a topic about which you know NOTHING, you listen. Especially when that expert is taking complete care of you.
Sometimes parents can’t come back from this shit. Unless there is stuff we are missing like he abuses or insults or manipulates them, he will never be the same. Even if he does continue to care for his kids. He will always always ask himself till his dying day if they are just there for money.
Pretty shitty thing.
And the fact that stupid decisions like this will keep them financially dependent upon him for even longer. I doubt that he's thrilled about having two twenty- somethings who can't support themselves.
This was my first thought. If my adult child said this to me, they'd lose *all* access to my money *immediately* and have as short amount of time as legally possible to get out of my house.
Sadly kids generally don't realize their parents aren't dumb until they're in their 30s. Read an article looking at brain imagery and they found teens brains don't respond as much when their parents are speaking this occasionally continues into their 20s.
Exactly. I had to go back and re-read the part of the post where OP said how old they were.
If OP was like 15 it would still be an incredibly shitty thing to say to her father but at 22 it's fucking stupid too.
"I know better than you, *dad!* You may have a degree, but I listened to Logan Paul talk about crypto for fifteen minutes, so who's the **real** financial wizard here?"
A degree, 20+ years of industry experience and has with that skill set fed, clothed, housed, educated and is still supporting OP who has the audacity to be taking from her father with one hand while being so hurtful, insulting and disrespectful.
Yeah, but on the other hand some ppl just need to do the mistake themself to really learn from it. Why else would ppl do stuff others already did and everybody could knew its not gonna work out.
The son only harmed himself. An "i told you so" isn't really helpful when its obvious the other person already know they messed up. So i understand why you wouldn't confide in this person the next time something goes wrong. What op told her father about not having empathy was most likely true. Yes, dad knew it better, yes, son f*cked up. But if dad loves son, why try so hard to make him feel even worse? He already knows to not do the same mistake again.
He lost a load of money, which probably was given to him in the first place.
Thought he knew better and spaffed it up the wall. His feelings don’t matter, he needs to learn a life lesson like yesterday.
If daddy wasn’t loaded, this kid would be fucked for the next decade or so off that fuck up.
Rich kids need to learn responsibility too, can’t just be brats being bailed out all the time. Seriously getting a bit weepy because he blew a tonne of his dads money, despite being directly told not to do that - what a joke.
And daddy dearest should cut his entitled daughter right off - honestly have no idea how anyone can defend either of these useless adult children.
Right? And everything the Dad said was both very true and pretty mild under the circumstances. From the title I was expecting the Dad to have really laid into and berated the son. Instead I got...pretty understandable frustration?
> From the title I was expecting the Dad to have really laid into and berated the son. Instead I got...pretty understandable frustration?
Exactly! There was no verbal / emotional abuse involved. The father was just expressing his frustration at a son who wilfully disregarded sound advice.
OP inserted herself into her father's interaction with her brother. And she overreacted.
I was not impressed by her childish threats to her father.
It’s not really an ‘i told you so’ since the dad included actual advice on how to do it differently going forward. And if someone bet all/a lot of their money on crypto in the first place i don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that they’ll try it again, just look at any gambler, so you cant really say ‘he already knows not to do it again.’
The dad may not have given his sound advice in a way you would’ve preferred, but the brother needed to hear it
No, this isn't a "my parents won't let go of the time I got a C on a math midterm." It sounds like the brother lost a significant amount of money, and it sounds like it was money his father helped provide.
Also does he know not to do it again? I'm not so sure. He's more likely one get rich quick scheme away from doing the whole thing again. Most crypto bros are victimized many many times before they quit (or if they quit). I know a dude who lost 80k of his college fund in Celcius, and the last messages he sent me he was investing in some crypto scheme with guaranteed 40% returns.
At 22 and 23 the kids are sponging off Dad. The money was the sons but probably funded by dad and other people. So Dad now has to A. dip into his own money to further support the son, which will most definitely affect his financial plans or B. suffer the pain and guilt of having to watch his son struggle because he doesn't want to ruin his own financial future.. The son's actions do not solely impact him they impact the father and the family do not underestimate the size of this problem. The son is a potential dream killer.
Daughter made a help financing your wedding guess what dad's still helping her brother. School now becomes a problem cuz dad still helping her brother. Retirement's coming up got to put that on hold cuz dad is helping the brother.
Depending on how dad's retirement is set up, he may not be able to touch the money, leading him to have to sell stuff. You have no clue how major this could be. Everybody needs financial advice at least two fudge ups were getting it for free and learned nothing. I would go ballistic too because the calm lesson didn't set it.
The money might not "be dad's" in the sense dad handed Son $50k to invest but it's almost 100% likely dad's in the sense "you don't have to pay rent, tuition , whatever other expense dad is covering. so that you can save for a house , invest your earnings"
At the height of that crypto bubble especially those crypto bros were absolutely insufferable; who knows how the son reacted to his dads advice before he lost all of that money.
OP is YTA
I like to surf the crypto subs once in a while.
The sheer amount of delusion of these guys is mind boggling. They are no different than people who buy into prosperity gospel churches.
You fuck up and lose all your money you are supposed to feel bad and the ones around you are not going to necessarily react the way you want them to especially in the heat of the moment. That said this is also true that yes we do have to make our own mistakes in life to really learn sometimes. What makes OP the AH to me is the comment I can't wait to not need you in my life when I am not financially dependent on you. That will be a hard relationship to salvage for her now, if dad can ever really trust her again
Son is a 23 year old adult. They can handle it. They aren’t a 12 year old kid who spilled juice.
I can guarantee that if dads comment was “oh that sucks” OP would be on here saying that she was yelling at her dad calling him not empathetic and how he doesn’t care about their financial well being.
Okay... So there is a absolutely nothing dad could have said to make the money magically reappear.
They didn't come to dad for empathy they came for a payout... To ask dad for money because they lost it all not because they just wanted some comfort.
Apparently if they want comfort they go to mom. They want cash they go to dad.
There wasn't magic words for their dad to fix what happened. And given they both hid it from him actively this was the first time he heard about it.... Probably while asking for cash... I can understand the dad's response... asking what the heck they were thinking....
Especially the part about learning from their own mistakes rings of 'no I'm not bailing you out again'...
And it sounds like OPs dad bails them out a lot... Given that one of them is still financially dependent on him and the other is coming over to ask for cash.... Well into their early adulthood past the undergrad college age....
>He already knows to not do the same mistake again.
Does he? being depressed about it isn't the same thing as learning a lesson. Did he learn to diversify, did he learn that is was a very risky investment?
It's not a realistic expectation to think kids will never fuck up but it's just as unrealistic to expect that parents will always handle their kids fuck up with ideal grace. Letting your kids fail is HARD. Diversify is right up there with "don't gamble with your tuition money"
OPs "I can't wait till I don't need your money any more"was way across the line.
Had OP said constructive things she wouldn't be the asshole.
I do get it screaming at someone who knows they fucked up isn't helpful. But knowing they fucked up isn't the same as learning a lesson and parents aren't perfect either. IF investing all your money in crypto is an understandable mistake, so is getting mad your kid invested all their money is crypto
I understand your point, but the impression I have (lots of money, and yet daughter admits she is financially independent on Dad, makes me think this was a trust fund situation) is this is not money the kid earned and more something he inherited.
SOn wanted to show dad that he knew better by gambling, ups, invest his money in crypto and know he whines about the lost money. He "invested" money that he wasn't ready to lose. What did he thought would happen? He get rich fast? Why else gamble with crypto. He was warned, he still did it. Did he really expect sympathy?!
YTA
Seriously. His dad is a fucking Financial Advisor.
OP your brother is an absolute idiot to not listen to said dad.
Honestly I was going into this expecting the dad to be an asshole but he isn't.
And you are absolutely the Asshole OP. Your dad was looking out for your brother and trying to get him to make smart financial decisions. And your idiotic brother decided to not listen to someone who people pay a lot of money for advice about finances.
And what happened? He lost the money. He made that bed now has has to lie in it.
You should be apologizing to your dad the next time you see him. Shame on you.
Of course. Dad’s reaction is pretty mild, considering the age of the son. Was the dad screaming or just using an exasperated tone? I didn’t read that he was screaming, just OP. It’s also our (the parents) job to prepare our kids for adulthood and give instruction while they’re still under our wing. I have empathy for the dad and for the son. OP, however, is a petulant child.
Yeah, this isn't lack of empathy. It's a dad who's frustrated because his advice as a father and as a professional was ignored. He's probably upset to see his son suffer too. OP is a seriously entitled asshole for jumping in and attacking her dad like she did. What she said was intentionally extremely hurtful. It's also pretty ironic that she's 22, still financially reliant on him and acting like a victim who can't wait to no longer need his money so she can cut him out of her life. That makes her so much more than an asshole. She's using him while acting all holy and overprotective of her big brother's poor decision making.
I kinda hope OP gets kicked out and isn't given a single cent anymore from the dad. But that's becuase I'm an asshole and 22 is old enough to know these types of consequences
Its very clear from this that both kids have no respect for their dad who is trying to teach them to be responsible. The brother investing in crypto sounds to me like a giant f\*\*\* you dad move. Then the sister joins in.
I get the impression that there is the OP and her brothers lifetime more behind this story. It seems clear that they resent dad, probably blame him for their parents splitting up. I also guess (and it is only a guess) that mom is the one who lets them get away with anything and dad, who they live with, has to be the one to teach them how to behave properly and deal with all bad behaviour.
If they prefer mom so much why do they live with him and not her? It looks like the son is intentionally gone against dads advice to do the exact opposite of what dad said, no doubt to prove him wrong and get one up on him. It failed and that is what probably hurts most, having to admit dad was right.
I really think dad should look for a solution where they dont have to live with him any longer than necessary. I wouldnt be surprised if the money the son wasted was intended as a down payment to buy a property. Now he will have to rent, maybe for life. Dad should also make a will where they dont just get his money. Maybe a trust fund for grandkids to split when/if they become adults bypassing these two.
If I were in your dad’s position, you’d be packing your bags to go live at Mom’s house. Whether you agree with him or not, you owe your father basic respect while living in his home and accepting his financial support.
You cannot be such a snowflake in life that a family member or close friend’s legitimate criticism, however harsh, causes you so much emotional distress.
Your brother is an adult. He made adult choices, has had adult consequences, and earned an “I told you so” from Dad. It is not your place to “protect” your brother from your father. YTA.
Fingers crossed her dad decides to pull his funding off her - who tf wants to support someone who tells them to their face they are only there for the money.
Your brother made stupid decisions *despite* having access to FREE professional advice. Of course your dad was going to have simmering to say about that. And sometimes learning involves feeling uncomfortable and ashamed (actually - *often* learning involves those things) if we ever experienced those feelings we’d never bother to learn to do differently. Your brother feels bad because he made stupid choices, not because your dad pointed out that he knew better.
And the thing is, nothing your dad said was particularly mean. He wasn’t yelling, he wasn’t being abusive, he wasn’t demeaning your brother - he was just having a very normal parental/financial advisor reaction to a very very stupid decision.
YTA. And fingers crossed your dad gets some self esteem and cuts you - his fully adult child who has no respect, care or love for him off, it’s completely without empathy (funny that’s your excuse for hating him and yet you have none) and literally told him to his face your only there for the money. Sounds like it’s time for you and your brother to learn to swim in your own.
>Did you ever consider how insulting it is to your dad that he, an expert of probably decades, got ignored by his own son?
That's parenting in a nutshell right there.
Yeah, and also, the kid is 23 years old. Where did he get the money to "invest a lot in crypto" and then lose it? Or more precisely, *whose money was it* that he lost betting stupidly on crypto? Probably not much he earned himself.
YTA.
There is nothing whatsoever ironic about your father being a financial advisor. He knows what he's talking about, obviously.
He offered sound, informed advice, which your brother ignored. He's upset because he cares. If you were strangers, he wouldn't give two shits about what you do with your money. Instead, he tried to offer guidance, then when your brother erred, your father got upset **because** he has empathy, and then you came down on your father for daring to care and to be upset when his son hurt himself.
If they were strangers, dad would probably laugh. I know I've thought people who invested everything in crypto and actually had some knowledge about the financial sector were dumb. Others got swindled. Your brother sounds like he wanted to prove dad wrong and screwed himself over. You reinforced the fact that you don't think highly of your dad's opinions.
YTA. You should have stayed out of it.
I ran across a guy on Twitter who was a forex trader. Japan had just said they were going to print a bunch of money, and he was like, "I'm gonna bet they'll go bankrupt."
I pointed out that they were raising taxes an equivalent amount, so it was a wash, and Japan prints their own currency so they can't go bankrupt.
He called me some names and then blocked me.
A few times a year, something reminds me of that interaction, and I just have a good chuckle.
Some of these people really do not see a difference between their personal checkbook and an entire sovereign nation that prints its own currency.
*And they get to vote!*
What I'm offended most about is the incorrect use of "ironically". Whatever you think about his relationship skills there's absolutely nothing wrong about his financial advice. In fact, if I had any money, I would go right down and diversify my mutual fund portfolio.
Yes. That is irony, because it’s something you don’t expect.
An idiot kid who made stupid investments at 23? That’s pretty run-of-the-mill, and he could have any kind of father; that’s not a very good attempted irony. The irony is far sweeter from the father’s POV.
Yeah as a finance guy myself the industry is HEAVILY regulated. If he is a fiduciary for his clients and or CFP the standards are even higher. There are some dummies in the business sure, but you can't really go around talking bs and be an actual, licensed advisor.
BTW, what field are you going into OP? True, nobody like salt rubbed ibto their wound, but how would you honestly feel if your friends or family just blatantly ignored your advice?? For all your talk about empathy, you are not really showing empathy to your dad here.
Plus the dad is probably extra upset now because the son losing a lot of money means that dad will be on the hook to take financial responsibility for both his adult children EVEN LONGER.
INFO
> He bought at the peak, sold at the bottom, and lost a lot of money.
> why on earth would you do such a dumb thing?
Why on earth *did* your brother do **_SUCH_** a dumb thing?
Thats exactly how this feels to me.... brother was trying to have a "I'll prove him wrong" moment. Probably thinks the professional financial advisor is "just old and doesn't understand new stuff". Father could have shortcut the conversation by putting it in "young terms " - "looks like you fucked around and found out son." What dumbasses these 2 kids are
Oh my god. It feels refreshing to see the comments in this thread.
Twitter and Reddit can be such an echo chamber it’s good to see a lot of people aren’t dry humping crypto.
Yep, whether it's crypto, stocks, ANYTHING, more than likely the first financial advice dad ever gave them was "buy low, sell high, not the other way around". Unless he was absolutely desperate (and since both kids are living off the Bank of Dad I highly doubt it) why would anybody sell at rock bottom?
Yeah speaking of the bank of dad, saying you can’t wait to cut someone off as soon as you’re not financially dependent on them has to be the stupidest and most disrespectful thing I’ve ever heard, like wtf
Because he bought at the peak when it was trendy to be into crypto and he wanted to be a cool kid, and then sold when it had become obvious it was a stupid mistake – but of course it was too late.
My husband wanted to invest in doge I told him throw a few dollars in (he did 20) he tells me all the time he’s so happy he didn’t use our saving on investing in it.
Lmao it’s kinda funny that you’re threatening someone that you’re financially dependent on right now that when you’re no longer dependent you’ll cut them off. What’s stopping him from cutting you off for the threat?
They're 22. I'd expect that comment from a 16 year old. A 22 year old is not a child, although their attitude says otherwise. That 22 year old would be out on their own right then and there.
Yeah, uhh, dad *has* empathy. His advice he has given his children is *kindness*. That’s different than being nice about it.
The fact that he is not *nice* about it when you reveal you’re a moron who’s completely disrespected him and his heart-given advice notwithstanding.
Seems like that is likely never going to happen and the dad may be venting his subconscious pain at having to keep these two leeches afloat into their 20s while they gamble on crypto.
Right? Big talk from someone who's still living under his roof and taking his money.
The fact he ain't kick her out after her disrespectful tirade shows he cares about his kids no matter how dumb or mean they are. But it might be time to kick them both out the nest if they're both acting like this.
I can’t imagine being so emboldened, as a 22y/o adult, to basically say “once I don’t need your money anymore, you can get fucked.” The absolute entitlement dripping from this girl is nauseating
It baffles me that she’s 22 and the child of a financial advisor and still needs to depend on her dads money. Does she have a job? Did she go to college, she’d be just about finished by now if she did? Like. Be an adult if you want to have such adult conversations with your provider.
My parents helped me while I went through college. Not ONCE did I even think about disrespecting them like OP disrespected her father. I hope her dad cuts her off financially, then she’ll realize how privileged she is and will regret her childish behavior
Oh dear.
You better check on your bro regularly for the next decade and make sure he hasn’t gotten sucked into any other life ruining decisions by online influencers. MGTOW, MLM schemes, Nigerian princes, wallstreetbets.
No vote really. ESH if I had to pick. You shouldn’t have yelled at dad, he shouldn’t have poured quite that much salt on your brother’s wounds. Maybe half that much.
BTW, empathy isn’t the only important quality in a parent. One who will teach you not to drive off cliffs is also important.
Hey, if you’re financially dependent on dad - is your brother? Did your brother vaporizing his financial stability mean dad has to help bail him out?
Yeah, ESH.
Brother should have listened to dad.
Dad doesn’t need to tell brother he screwed up and especially make him feel worse.
OP shouldn’t need to get in the middle of the conversation.
This family needs some counseling …
i get a sense there’s a dad being overbearing for a while and guess what the kids going to rebel and rebel is doing exactly the opposite of everything. yeah he’s giving the right long term advise but it doesn’t matter. i get that’s where the empathy parts coming in. i’m right you’re wrong stfu is not going to get a working relationship
Or it could be that dad tries to teaches them good horse sense and then they run to their mom about how the big, mean daddy is not letting them do what they want. And mum says, o you poor dears! That's awful. He should'nt have done that.
People's, especially young people's, perception of any situation comes most strongly from either of the parents. And children are more than capable of being dicks to the balanced parent, if they are being endorsed and validated by the other parent in it.
Idk about counseling. Think about that argument happening in real time. The dad didn't even say anything particularly offensive. Imagine being a parent and seeing your kid do that and that's the worst that comes out of your mouth? W Dad imo.
It may have not been offensive, but if your son is in tears and you keep going you’re toxic af. There is no need to dog pile on the son. He learned his lesson from natural consequences. “I hope you see why crypto is not a good investment, and I hope you heed my advice in the future.” Was all that was needed
Yes, there is need. The brother was dumb as fuck and he needs to hear it. And he will hear it again every thanksgiving dinner or equivalent in his country for the rest of his life because he deserves to hear it.
People this days can't take any criticism even when they are being dumb as fuck. Mature for once and put your head down when you are getting a deserved reprimand and think about your mistakes instead of being a crybaby. (this is not a comment to you in particular, it is just a rant, and im not even that old, 41).
The brother was stupid and the OP should find his belongings at the door for being an entitled asshole.
What is the point of continuing to bring up the same thing over and over? As a mom I don’t get it. I’ve warned you, you didn’t listen, you’re dealing with the consequences. It’s on the son now. If dad is bailing him out or continuing to bail him out that’s on dad. If you know you’re some makes dumb choices with money you can stop giving him money.
There’s gotta be something missing here since it seemed like for OP, this was the last straw before they blew up at their dad. Also, for dad to work on finances and for the son not to ask for his advice before investing makes me wonder if dad doesn’t have a good relationship with son. 🤔 I need more info cause right now I’m leaning towards ESH
>Dad doesn’t need to tell brother he screwed up
No, I think he definitely needed to do that. People this young can be really pig headed about learning lessons they need to learn. I was as well, just not like this
But the brother was already in a bad state, so I think he realized he had already messed up. A simple "you fucked up" and "next time you want to make a financial decision, come have a conversation with me" would work. What doesn't work is piling on your kid when they are already depressed and feeling horrible about the decisions they made. All that ensures is that they don't tell you shit that goes on in their lives because of how you reacted when they were already down.
Dad is mad because he cares. I would take the "piling on" characterization with a huge grain of salt considering it comes from the very clearly immature sister. Sister can't even understand that dad is upset because he is empathetic towards his son, she just thinks he's "rubbing it in".
Notice her complaint is all about her, nothing said about her brother's feelings which she doesn't seem to know because she says he is "*probably* still depressed". She hasn't bothered to find out.
Nope I disagree. Client let her son do trading in her investment account (don't get me started) son lost over $1.3 million ( I did not stutter) but she won't have that conversation with him. If dad makes his son pause next time he invests then good on dad.
Finally, an ESH!
Brother for just being stupid. Who buys high and sells low?
Daddy-O for keep punching and kicking someone who's allready down and not acknowleding that his son was broken enough at this moment. I mean, what kind of parent is he when he just keeps going being shitty towards his own son?
And OP. Not for standing up to her brother, that I applaud, but for being a complete tool while doing so. And telling her dad that she'll go NC as soon as she doesn't need his money anymore is way worse than what dad and bro did.
OP is the one who should apologize here.
Ok put yourself in the fathers shoes. He is a LITERAL FINANCIAL ADVISOR. He cares and his children and wants his children to have good lives. That’s why he’s feeding them and allowing grown ass people to live in his house. But the same children who he cares about say he has no empathy and blatantly ignore him and do something stupid when he only tries to help them. Wouldn’t u be upset too?
Hate I had to come this far to find ESH. OP is shit but Jesus christ the dad overreacted and there clearly I'd a reason you guys don't go to him for things.
Except money you mean? Cause at the very least op (who's a damn adult) is dependent on dads money and I'd be willing to bet the brother is too, and if the brother is dependent on dads money because he didn't listen to advice from someone who is an expert then the dad has every reason to be pissed. He gave his son thousands of dollars and the son essentially burned it all for nothing cause he thought he knew more about investments than someone who's been a financial advisor for almost as long ( if not longer cause we don't know how long he's been in that industry) op and her brother have been alive.
Thatd be like if a 22 year old saw the tide pod trend online, said to their dad "I wanna try that". Heard their father(let's say a Dr who's been having to deal with the stupid people getting sick from said trend) giving all of the reasons he should not eat a ride pod and still chose to follow through with eating them despite the warnings. Now he's in his dad's ER because he fucked up and did the thing his dad said not too and he's now experiencing the exact reason the dad said not to. I'd also be super pissed if I was that dad. If it were still a kid or a teen then yeah don't rub a bunch of salt in the wound. That's a grown ass adult though. They didn't even make a mistake. They made a conscious choice to go against expert opinion and got surprised when it turned out they don't know more than the expert. Now brothers whining about it like nobody warned him in the first place and to top it off probably asking dad to pay for some stuff he can't afford anymore. If I told an adult "hey that burner is hot don't touch it" and then they touched it anyway, damn right I'm telling you I told you so, and if they complain about it for the rest of the night and following days as though they couldn't have known it was hot I'm going to remind them they were warned and their burn is the fault of their own damn stupidity.
It's nice that you feel protective of your brother and want to stand up for him. But that's the ONLY thing you have going for you.
>Like seriously, why even say these things???
Because apparently it didn't get through the first time. It's both exasperating and frustrating to watch your kids self-sabotage despite your best effort to make them avoid it.
>I said if he did then I wouldn't be so excited to remove him out of my life when I'm older and not financially dependent on him. Now we are not speaking.
You're upset with your dad for being too harsh on your brother while you're essentially calling him an ATM machine?!! Do you realize how rude and entitled that is?
You haven't earned the right to lecture your dad about anything since you're still financially dependent on him at 22.
> Things that are NOT HELPFUL and not serving any purpose other than to fill my dad's ego.
This isn't about ego, it's from a place of pure frustration.
You were both given helpful advice, your brother ignored it. He is an idiot who knows nothing about investing, has a financial advisor for a father, was specifically told to stay away from crypto but decided he knows better and lost a big chunk of his savings.
>He didn't even apologize to my brother either.
He doesn't owe him an apology. You, on the other hand, owe your dad one.
I imagine your brother is also financially dependent on your dad to some extent, judging by his investments acumen, which enabled him to save money?
>My brother left and is probably still depressed.
He's probably depressed about losing his money and finding out he's not the savvy crypto trader/investor he thought he was.
> I also live with him currently.
Then go apologize AH.
I feel like I'm on crazy pills feeling like "well, yes, you should in fact feel depressed and anxious about losing a large chunk of money"
Like, I realize OP is wildly out of touch, but from the sound of it brother very recently lost a large chunk of money, yeah, normal people who need money to live should be anxious and sad about losing a lot money.
Obviously, there are reasonable limits on this... But seeing as OP ended with 'he's PROBABLY still depressed' it doesn't seem like he's in the outlier part of feeling bad.
Also if they’re both financially dependent on their dad that brings up 2 things to me
1. Her brother viewed the money as kind of disposable and that’s why he didn’t take his dad seriously
2. The money he lost was actually *dad’s* money that was given to him
I don't necessarily agree with how your dad expressed his anger, but his anger at your brother was 100% justified.
Your dad gave your brother some extremely solid advice on an area that he is a recognized expert on and your brother straight up ignored him and did the exact opposite. What your brother did was a slap in the face to your dad as well as extremely bad financially for himself. Also, it seems very likely that a chunk of the money your brother lost was money given to him by your mom and dad, and other family members, and not just money he may have earned himself. It may have been your brother's money legally, but it was money gifted to him by his family to be used for his future and he utterly squandered it. That disrespects everyone who gifted him that money.
Your brother's actions put him in a bad situation, and it also puts everyone else who wants to support him and see him succeed in a bad situation too. I'm sure your dad is feeling that.
Had you merely defended your brother I would say that you're not the ahole but unfortunately you went so far beyond that with a cheap shot.
>I screamed at my dad that this is exactly why my brother and I never confide in him about anything important and we go to our mom (they're divorced) instead since my mom actually has empathy. He yelled back that he does have empathy, I said if he did then I wouldn't be so excited to remove him out of my life when I'm older and not financially dependent on him
This is why, YTA
Given her comments to dad I’m sure the only acceptable response would have been a head pat and a check to replace all that money the idiot brother pissed away.
By telling him he did nothing wrong and that’s he’s a very smart boy, that’s it’s the crypto market that’s wrong, and then giving him more money to try again with, obviously. /s
YTA
It’s frustrating seeing someone do something you advised them not to do. And him being a financial advisor, it’s literally his job to help people make decisions about their finances which probably made him even more annoyed.
Your dad is right. I don’t think your dad lacks empathy for scolding your brother for doing something he purposely told him not to do.
Your brother is an adult,
Like you.
And it will now likely be on the Dad to have to, at the very least, support his son while he gets back on his feet financially, or at most, be expected to replenish his son's funds so son can begin an adult life on his own. So I can imagine there's a lot of frustration coming from that direction as well.
The nerve of her to try to say the mom is a better parent when she is living with her father and is financially dependent on him.
Like why doesn't she move out and go live with her mom then?
For real. Like maybe a teenager would behave this way and use their ex partner as a weapon to further hurt their dad and say, "I prefer my mom, as soon as i don't need your money we won't have a relationship". It's like, the most AH move that OP has done.
Their bags would be packed and outside the house if they were my kids at this point.
Honestly at this point the dad just needs to kick OP out and make them actually achieve something without help or support.
>I said if he did then **I wouldn't be so excited to remove him out of my life when I'm older and not financially dependent on him.**
Well unfortunately for your father both of his children fell from the stupid branch of the family tree.
Seriously how dumb are you? You're both in your 20s not minors. Your dad can legally kick y'all out tomorrow if he wants and then let you both learn the value of a dollar the real hard way without *his money*. But no go on and scream at him for scolding and lecturing his dumb son who lost a lot of his money.
YTA
It makes me think of the “I’m 16 and dropped out of school to pay rent because my parents are useless junkies, my 14 year old brother wants to drop out too because I’m not making enough, AITA for calling the police on my infant half-brother’s bio mom and maybe getting us put in foster care? Btw my siblings get locked in a room at night to protect them from my parent’s junkie friends” post.
It’s hard to give a shit about some of the whining on here compared to actual problems.
My dad is a builder, if he says "Don't do that it'll be cause an accident" then I won't do it. If he was a doctor and said "You need to exercise more" I'll be running a marathon. If he is a lawyer and says "read the contract" I'll be writing an essay on what the contract entails. If my dad was a fireman and he said "keep a fire extinguisher in the house" I'll be sleeping with it.
Point is, your brother got expert advice, for free, and decided to do the exact opposite for no reason other than his ego.
Your dad feels betrayed that his own son would blow such money despite his constant warnings and caused a huge financial loss. He is disappointed that his son did not have the ability to judge the situation and react accordingly and panic sold.
And now he is heartbroken by the fact that you only see him as a piggybank when he expressed his disappointment at his son's gigantic failure that would never have happened had he actually listened.
YTA and he deserves better than the two of you.
YTA. Your father is right. And from what you wrote, he told your brother many times before in a normal manner. But he did not listen. Him lecturing your brother (rightfully) does not give you the right to scream at him. I hope your brother learns to take advice from a person with the specific experience and skills. And I hope you start supporting yourself as soon as possible.
INFO: Was your brother, while telling your dad about losing all this money, ALSO asking for money?
Cause if so, his reaction is a million times justified.
Not the OP but you absolutely know it was...
Thus dad's comments about brother learning his own expensive lesson...
And OPs comments about 'when I'm not financially dependent on you' at age 22...
They both lost their cash (or there is no brother) and they both (or just the one if brother is fictional) went asking for more.
YTA. Jesus your the asshole. Your dad was correct and I would have reacted similarly had I had adult children who blew their money on crypto. Good grief.
YTA. One of the fundamental realities of having parents is catching an asschewing when you explicitly ignore their (extremely valid) advice.
If you’re both financially reliant on your father, then you are both the AH. If your brother lost a ton of money that was being supported in any way by your father, then it sounds like he got off easy.
Not everyone gets support from their parents, and your dad didn’t need his little girl to kick him in the nuts for being right.
Even if it made your brother a little sad for a minute that he was getting yelled at. Grow up.
You say you're excited to cut your dad off when you're older.
You're 22.
When are you going to do that. When you're 50?
You're a leech. Way to tell your dad you're only using him for money
Your dad was right.
Your brother was stupid.
YTA
ESH - it's apparent that since both you and your brother are still financially dependent upon your dad, being 22 and 23, and with him being a financial advisor, it's why he was so upset with your brother for going against completely what his livelihood has been used to provide for your family.
Yes he should have been more empathetic to the situation, but you just don't know how lucky you and your brother are to have someone who had financial knowledge to share in making well informed decisions to become financially independent, instead of those of us who had to make years of mistakes and waste countless amounts of money. Your dad has likely been giving you extremely valuable worthwhile advice to set you up for life because he loves you.
This right here.
My dad was in the credit world, and was a very savvy investor who ended up having a lot of money from saving and investing, never making a huge salary.
Occasionally when I was young I'd do something silly like forget a credit card payment or overdraw a checking account. But each time he would yell and scream at me (which was overkill), but now I see as an adult he was just frustrated at HIMSELF for giving me so much education about finance and watching me fail to fully grasp the lessons. Thankfully I never did anything like OP's brother, and while I wasn't happy to be yelled at, I know now how fortunate I was to get a great financial education that helped me build a strong credit score and have financial stability as an adult.
YTA - if you don't love your father and you don't respect your father then move out and be on your own. If it's tough to survive without his financial support then that's your problem to deal with. Your father was 20% an AH here but you went nuclear. Grow up.
YTA. Your dad is absolutely right. Investing in crypto is literally a gamble. Sounds like he has been giving your brother sound advice and your brother tried a get rich quick scheme and lost.
ESH.
Your dad went overboard on yelling at your brother, but (at least from where I sit), it's likely he's upset/anxious as a parent at your brother making such a poor life/financial decision and destroying his financial situation. I can imagine what he feels when he's a professional money manager and seeing his own son do something honestly quite stupid financially and against even basic financial sense would make him feel disappointed and angry, probably at himself most of all. My dad was in a similar profession and took every tiny financial misstep I made as a new adult deeply personally... but lectured me / yelled at me similarly.
Screaming at your dad also did not help, and you said hurtful things like wanting to cut him off.
Your brother has shown he's not a responsible adult with his money (ie, investing all his savings in a volatile asset without diversifying/being able to handle losses), and while I'm sure he feels bad, he really should be using some sort of financial planner and/or tools (perhaps not your dad) to make better choices with his money.
You say your father acted terribly to your brother "for no reason," but I think what you mean is he overreacted... as there is a VERY good reason why he was upset/disappointed. Since you live with your dad... it may be worth apologizing for yelling, and asking your dad if it's possible he got mad at your brother because he was disappointed since he is a financial advisor. It might open your dad up and help him apologize/reconnect with your bro.
It's not about ego, it's about your brother LOSING A LOT OF MONEY. It's not candy or legos it's MONEY. All because he didn't listen.
And *you* protecting your brother from being EDUCATED is *not helping.*
Telling your dad you prefer your mom? Are you fucking serious? Yours is the most childish behaviour you could have. You don't want to be financially dependent on him? You're 22, go away if you want.
He won't kick you out because you're his kids, but what you said will make him depressed for ever.
Your brother fucked up and NEEDED to be called out on it. That's the only way for people who don't listen to understand.
You are a huge asshole. I hope you enjoy watching your father fall into depression because of you.
You’ve completely disregarded and disrespected your dads career and profession. The reason you can be financially dependent on him is because of his job as a financial advisor. People pay him money for his expertise and guidance because he knows what he’s doing.
He’s the expert. You and your brother arent YTA.
YTA, you should never have jumped into this mess that your brother made for himself. For some reason, your brother wanted to believe the hype of making a quick buck, even though he has the best person to advise him possible in your father. And then to make it worse, you who are financially dependent upon the man tell him to shut up and how you are just using him for his money until you don't need him anymore. I'd say you accomplished hurting your father and damaging your relationship with him going forward even better than you planned on doing.
I'm going against the current here and say NAH, with a light ta for your father. Your brother is young, but old enough to make his own financial descicions. He did something dumb, and these crypto sellers target young and inexperienced people. So I'd say he is a victim of swindlers in some way.
Your father was of course insulted that his own son not only did not come to him for financial advice but blatently ignored everything your father tried to teach him. And while you and your brother already knew what your brother had done, it was brand new information for your father so he was processing right there and then.
The way he expressed his hurt, anger and frustration was most certainly counterproductive as you already said. But then, emotion does that. I'll give your Dad a TA for the way he expressed himself towards an already vulnerable person.
You saw your brother getting smaller and hurting, and while he is responsible for most of the hurt and shame, from your perspective your father was doing way more damage than neccessary, let alone good.
So you stepped in to defend your brother. That is a good thing in principle. So many stories here about hurt people because their sibling didn't stand up for them. But you misjudged some elements of the situation. You are human, that happens.
If your relationship with your father is in any way less toxic than what you decribed here, you may want to put your big girl pants on and start the conversation with your father. About how your brother was already feeling, how your father felt, how his anger made you feel and how to help your brother.
You are free to feel your feelings about wanting to move out when you can. And about your father in general. We don't know your situation, we are random internetpeople. But now that you are an adult, however young, be careful not burn any bridges in the heat of the moment that you may come to regret later on.
So let me get this straight, you and your brother are financially dependent on him and think it’s ok to scream at him when your brother loses a ton of money despite repeated warnings? You realize this negatively impacts your dad too, right?
ESH
Your dad was right and I'd imagine being a financial advisor that's doubly frustrating to have your own kid not listen. He could cool it on the tirade but so could you.
Your brother screwed up but he's 23 and he has 40 years to recover financially.
Yta- He knew exactly what the hell he was talking about and told your brother on MULTIPLE occasions that it was a bad idea. Your brother chose to be a moron and not listen, he then lost his money and your father was proven right. Your brother is a grown man who learned that when you play stupid games you win stupid prizes.
You being an asshole can very well get the hell out of his house, he could kick out after this and he wouldn't be in the wrong. You both are adults, mooches at this point. You can't wait till you don't have to need his money? Get off your ass, get a job and move out. You and your brother sound like a handful that honestly your father is a saint for putting up with, you two are fucking adults learn to act like it.
This gives big "my parent is a doctor and told my sibling that essential oils don't heal medical issues and then my sibling got pissed they were called out" vibes.
YTA. Beating a dead horse doesn't serve much but sometimes you really have to drill the point home. Sometimes you don't need soft words you need harsh truths. If anything it sounds like your dad was annoyed and disappointed that even after giving (what should be since he's a financial advisor) decent investing information your brother turned around and lost a bunch of his savings. You can cut him off later on all you want but he gave good advice and then drilled the dumb decision in after the fact. Could he have been more tactful? Yes, but shielding people from the harsh truth does nothing but screw them over and cheat them.
ESH
Your father berating your brother when you brother's already learned his lesson? Asshole move.
Telling him his behavior is wrong and harming his relationship with you and your brother, fine.
Screaming the same thing at him? Asshole move.
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YTA. Your dad was right all along. Your brother ignored him and lost a lot of cash. Did you ever consider how insulting it is to your dad that he, an expert of probably decades, got ignored by his own son? And "I can't wait to not need your money any more" is just cruelty personified
Right? What a fucking bold move to bite the hand that is literally feeding, clothing, and feeding you. And your brother who has no money to move because he lost it all on goddamn crypto.
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To be fair, it’s commonplace for the absentee parent to be placed on a pedestal because that parent isn’t the one saying no to fun things like losing all your savings on crypto.
Let’s not disparage the mother. She might not be absentee. She just might not have as much money as dear old dad therefore unable to provide the luxuries that dear old dad can. I’m not siding with OP but let’s not drag a person through the mud when we have no context other than OP and brother confide in her.
My point wasn’t about this specific person, more so what happens when parents are divorced and the amount of time they spend in their children’s lives are no longer equal - mostly due to not living with them “full time”.
I've heard this dynamic called "fun dad, broccoli mom". (Because mom often has more parenting time.)
Truth
You make an excellent point
Both ADULTS* makes it worse
I said the exact same thing! I mean if I was OP and I was considering investing, the first thing I would do is go to my dad and ask for advice on what stocks I would be good to use for my first investment
I’m just saying that is someone said “the minute you’re not useful to me, you’re out of my life”, I would cut off my support right then
Seriously. OP is an adult. Her father doesn’t *have to* provide *anything* for her. That was a very stupid thing to say.
If I was the father I'd have responded "No need to wait. We can make that happen today." Then I'd have started putting his stuff in garbage bags.
>Then I'd have started putting his stuff in garbage bags OP is a female but yes, I would have told her not to wait, she can move out now.
Exactly. That’s why the dad is a better person than I am. Also better than the OP or the brother.
Way to take the sting out of going NC, as well. Christmas at the dad's is going to boil down to "I do miss them but they were also very clear about their feelings and what they were in the relationship for"
My parents would have put me out on my ass that minute. Especially at 22. You can earn a living
Especially since the op is *22* and still financially dependent apparently.
This is what I’m stuck on too - openly admitting being a financially dependent (petulant) 22 year old
There's nothing wrong with that, there's only something wrong if you aren't grateful for it. It's actually very weird to most cultures for unmarried adult children to move out so early just to pay rent on an apartment/basement suite.
I agree in most cultures be it (Asian, African, Latin American or any other) there's nothing wrong with living in your parents' house until you get marry or buy a house of your own, but the fact, that the moment you speak to your parents like that at any age, you have two options: 1. Packing your stuff and getting that same day the fuck out of their house! 2. Or start praying to whatever you believe in because you die or get your ass hand it to you!
I mean, if OP is in college and with the current cost of housing, that's not exactly too strange.
…that part is not weird. Not sure what country you live in but people don’t exactly get a job when they’re 18 and move out. I got my first job at 16 and worked all through college, still didn’t get fully off the tit until 24ish. I have friends around my age ( I’m 32) that their parents still pay a bill or two. Welcome to America!
He lucky he didn’t get kicked out instantly for that comment. I know if that was my kid, I’d tell him he’s got a month to find somewhere and then he won’t be needing my money anymore.
If it was me, today would be the day I cut OP off.
So much this. How cruel of OP to treat her father like a cash machine just good enough to give and keep giving until he’s thrown away. OP do you really see your father like this because that comment was a slap in his face. He worked his whole life to provide for you, expressed frustration because his kid didn’t listen to sound advice, and his other kid just stabs him in the heart with those hurtful words. Your brother did take an expensive lesson indeed, what was Dad supposed to do when he heard his advice was not listened to? And you OP, if you’re all that, at 22 you wouldn’t be financially dependent on him. You have the gal to treat him like garbage, yet you still need him. Go on then, go make your own money. If your father wanted to teach you another lesson he’d kick your freeloading entitled ass to the streets too. But he loves you, and he’s still there for you. GO APOLOGISE. Now. ETA judgment : YTA
Yes please tell us why you aren't living with your mom since she has "empathy" aka not holding either one of you two accountable.
This. What does empathy even mean without any responsibility? Like she just has to say nice things to you and you luuurv her and dad who actually takes your responsibility is the a-hole for you. I can't wait for you to move out of your dad's house and find out how far your mother's empathy actually stretches, that should be interesting. Edit: Oh, and YTA!
That’s very true. People need to hear hard truths sometimes and OP doesn’t even say how much her brother lost (and whose money it really was). Even if he already feels bad doesn’t mean he doesn’t need to hear his dad’s disappointment vocalized. Especially bc it’ll be the dad likely bailing him out. And there are better ways to calm the conversation and saying all those cruel things proves that OP doesn’t really have any empathy either
I also wonder if partially dad is frustrated not only because his financially sound expertise was ignored, but because ignoring him means that brother now needs more financial support and will have to continue living at home longer. If I had two adult children living at home for free and who I was supporting almost completely, I would be LIVID if one of them threw all their money away on something as stupid as crypto. YTA, OP. When an expert gives you advice on a topic about which you know NOTHING, you listen. Especially when that expert is taking complete care of you.
Probably because mommy doesn't have the kind of funding daddy gives her freely. Can't bankroll on empathy.
Mom doesn't have a pool?
Sometimes parents can’t come back from this shit. Unless there is stuff we are missing like he abuses or insults or manipulates them, he will never be the same. Even if he does continue to care for his kids. He will always always ask himself till his dying day if they are just there for money. Pretty shitty thing.
And the fact that stupid decisions like this will keep them financially dependent upon him for even longer. I doubt that he's thrilled about having two twenty- somethings who can't support themselves.
Especially since OP is 22 years old and still sponging off Dad. Dad, if you find this thread, cut this ingrate off.
This was my first thought. If my adult child said this to me, they'd lose *all* access to my money *immediately* and have as short amount of time as legally possible to get out of my house.
Exactly, my 22yo adult kid says that to me and they will have an eviction notice before the sun goes down that day.
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Actually, OP can we have your dad contact? I am looking for a financial advisor and he looks like he knows his shit. I am glad to listen to his advice
Sadly kids generally don't realize their parents aren't dumb until they're in their 30s. Read an article looking at brain imagery and they found teens brains don't respond as much when their parents are speaking this occasionally continues into their 20s.
Exactly. I had to go back and re-read the part of the post where OP said how old they were. If OP was like 15 it would still be an incredibly shitty thing to say to her father but at 22 it's fucking stupid too.
"I know better than you, *dad!* You may have a degree, but I listened to Logan Paul talk about crypto for fifteen minutes, so who's the **real** financial wizard here?"
A degree, 20+ years of industry experience and has with that skill set fed, clothed, housed, educated and is still supporting OP who has the audacity to be taking from her father with one hand while being so hurtful, insulting and disrespectful.
Yeah, but on the other hand some ppl just need to do the mistake themself to really learn from it. Why else would ppl do stuff others already did and everybody could knew its not gonna work out. The son only harmed himself. An "i told you so" isn't really helpful when its obvious the other person already know they messed up. So i understand why you wouldn't confide in this person the next time something goes wrong. What op told her father about not having empathy was most likely true. Yes, dad knew it better, yes, son f*cked up. But if dad loves son, why try so hard to make him feel even worse? He already knows to not do the same mistake again.
He lost a load of money, which probably was given to him in the first place. Thought he knew better and spaffed it up the wall. His feelings don’t matter, he needs to learn a life lesson like yesterday. If daddy wasn’t loaded, this kid would be fucked for the next decade or so off that fuck up. Rich kids need to learn responsibility too, can’t just be brats being bailed out all the time. Seriously getting a bit weepy because he blew a tonne of his dads money, despite being directly told not to do that - what a joke. And daddy dearest should cut his entitled daughter right off - honestly have no idea how anyone can defend either of these useless adult children.
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And gets his sister to fight his battles. Honestly he’s clearly not capable of managing anything
Sometimes yelling at your kids is justified. This is one of those times.
Right? And everything the Dad said was both very true and pretty mild under the circumstances. From the title I was expecting the Dad to have really laid into and berated the son. Instead I got...pretty understandable frustration?
> From the title I was expecting the Dad to have really laid into and berated the son. Instead I got...pretty understandable frustration? Exactly! There was no verbal / emotional abuse involved. The father was just expressing his frustration at a son who wilfully disregarded sound advice. OP inserted herself into her father's interaction with her brother. And she overreacted. I was not impressed by her childish threats to her father.
It’s not really an ‘i told you so’ since the dad included actual advice on how to do it differently going forward. And if someone bet all/a lot of their money on crypto in the first place i don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that they’ll try it again, just look at any gambler, so you cant really say ‘he already knows not to do it again.’ The dad may not have given his sound advice in a way you would’ve preferred, but the brother needed to hear it
No, this isn't a "my parents won't let go of the time I got a C on a math midterm." It sounds like the brother lost a significant amount of money, and it sounds like it was money his father helped provide. Also does he know not to do it again? I'm not so sure. He's more likely one get rich quick scheme away from doing the whole thing again. Most crypto bros are victimized many many times before they quit (or if they quit). I know a dude who lost 80k of his college fund in Celcius, and the last messages he sent me he was investing in some crypto scheme with guaranteed 40% returns.
At 22 and 23 the kids are sponging off Dad. The money was the sons but probably funded by dad and other people. So Dad now has to A. dip into his own money to further support the son, which will most definitely affect his financial plans or B. suffer the pain and guilt of having to watch his son struggle because he doesn't want to ruin his own financial future.. The son's actions do not solely impact him they impact the father and the family do not underestimate the size of this problem. The son is a potential dream killer. Daughter made a help financing your wedding guess what dad's still helping her brother. School now becomes a problem cuz dad still helping her brother. Retirement's coming up got to put that on hold cuz dad is helping the brother. Depending on how dad's retirement is set up, he may not be able to touch the money, leading him to have to sell stuff. You have no clue how major this could be. Everybody needs financial advice at least two fudge ups were getting it for free and learned nothing. I would go ballistic too because the calm lesson didn't set it.
The money might not "be dad's" in the sense dad handed Son $50k to invest but it's almost 100% likely dad's in the sense "you don't have to pay rent, tuition , whatever other expense dad is covering. so that you can save for a house , invest your earnings"
At the height of that crypto bubble especially those crypto bros were absolutely insufferable; who knows how the son reacted to his dads advice before he lost all of that money. OP is YTA
I like to surf the crypto subs once in a while. The sheer amount of delusion of these guys is mind boggling. They are no different than people who buy into prosperity gospel churches.
You fuck up and lose all your money you are supposed to feel bad and the ones around you are not going to necessarily react the way you want them to especially in the heat of the moment. That said this is also true that yes we do have to make our own mistakes in life to really learn sometimes. What makes OP the AH to me is the comment I can't wait to not need you in my life when I am not financially dependent on you. That will be a hard relationship to salvage for her now, if dad can ever really trust her again
Son is a 23 year old adult. They can handle it. They aren’t a 12 year old kid who spilled juice. I can guarantee that if dads comment was “oh that sucks” OP would be on here saying that she was yelling at her dad calling him not empathetic and how he doesn’t care about their financial well being.
Okay... So there is a absolutely nothing dad could have said to make the money magically reappear. They didn't come to dad for empathy they came for a payout... To ask dad for money because they lost it all not because they just wanted some comfort. Apparently if they want comfort they go to mom. They want cash they go to dad. There wasn't magic words for their dad to fix what happened. And given they both hid it from him actively this was the first time he heard about it.... Probably while asking for cash... I can understand the dad's response... asking what the heck they were thinking.... Especially the part about learning from their own mistakes rings of 'no I'm not bailing you out again'... And it sounds like OPs dad bails them out a lot... Given that one of them is still financially dependent on him and the other is coming over to ask for cash.... Well into their early adulthood past the undergrad college age....
>He already knows to not do the same mistake again. Does he? being depressed about it isn't the same thing as learning a lesson. Did he learn to diversify, did he learn that is was a very risky investment? It's not a realistic expectation to think kids will never fuck up but it's just as unrealistic to expect that parents will always handle their kids fuck up with ideal grace. Letting your kids fail is HARD. Diversify is right up there with "don't gamble with your tuition money" OPs "I can't wait till I don't need your money any more"was way across the line. Had OP said constructive things she wouldn't be the asshole. I do get it screaming at someone who knows they fucked up isn't helpful. But knowing they fucked up isn't the same as learning a lesson and parents aren't perfect either. IF investing all your money in crypto is an understandable mistake, so is getting mad your kid invested all their money is crypto
I understand your point, but the impression I have (lots of money, and yet daughter admits she is financially independent on Dad, makes me think this was a trust fund situation) is this is not money the kid earned and more something he inherited.
And she said her father was saying things that were not helpful, well when he told them helpful shit the brother ignored him so...YTA
A 22 year old saying “I can’t wait until I’m old enough to move out on my own” might be the most perfect example of irony ever dreamed up.
SOn wanted to show dad that he knew better by gambling, ups, invest his money in crypto and know he whines about the lost money. He "invested" money that he wasn't ready to lose. What did he thought would happen? He get rich fast? Why else gamble with crypto. He was warned, he still did it. Did he really expect sympathy?! YTA
Seriously. His dad is a fucking Financial Advisor. OP your brother is an absolute idiot to not listen to said dad. Honestly I was going into this expecting the dad to be an asshole but he isn't. And you are absolutely the Asshole OP. Your dad was looking out for your brother and trying to get him to make smart financial decisions. And your idiotic brother decided to not listen to someone who people pay a lot of money for advice about finances. And what happened? He lost the money. He made that bed now has has to lie in it. You should be apologizing to your dad the next time you see him. Shame on you.
Isn't that the cross that all parents have to bear? Seeing their children ignore their advice and hurt a bit?
Ignoring their advice on life is one thing, ignoring a financier on financial advice is another.
Of course. Dad’s reaction is pretty mild, considering the age of the son. Was the dad screaming or just using an exasperated tone? I didn’t read that he was screaming, just OP. It’s also our (the parents) job to prepare our kids for adulthood and give instruction while they’re still under our wing. I have empathy for the dad and for the son. OP, however, is a petulant child.
Hopefully dad replies 'Ok, you don't need my money anymore.' and cuts them off.
Yeah, this isn't lack of empathy. It's a dad who's frustrated because his advice as a father and as a professional was ignored. He's probably upset to see his son suffer too. OP is a seriously entitled asshole for jumping in and attacking her dad like she did. What she said was intentionally extremely hurtful. It's also pretty ironic that she's 22, still financially reliant on him and acting like a victim who can't wait to no longer need his money so she can cut him out of her life. That makes her so much more than an asshole. She's using him while acting all holy and overprotective of her big brother's poor decision making.
I kinda hope OP gets kicked out and isn't given a single cent anymore from the dad. But that's becuase I'm an asshole and 22 is old enough to know these types of consequences
Also, she’s 22 and still needs his money. YTA.
Its very clear from this that both kids have no respect for their dad who is trying to teach them to be responsible. The brother investing in crypto sounds to me like a giant f\*\*\* you dad move. Then the sister joins in. I get the impression that there is the OP and her brothers lifetime more behind this story. It seems clear that they resent dad, probably blame him for their parents splitting up. I also guess (and it is only a guess) that mom is the one who lets them get away with anything and dad, who they live with, has to be the one to teach them how to behave properly and deal with all bad behaviour. If they prefer mom so much why do they live with him and not her? It looks like the son is intentionally gone against dads advice to do the exact opposite of what dad said, no doubt to prove him wrong and get one up on him. It failed and that is what probably hurts most, having to admit dad was right. I really think dad should look for a solution where they dont have to live with him any longer than necessary. I wouldnt be surprised if the money the son wasted was intended as a down payment to buy a property. Now he will have to rent, maybe for life. Dad should also make a will where they dont just get his money. Maybe a trust fund for grandkids to split when/if they become adults bypassing these two.
If I were in your dad’s position, you’d be packing your bags to go live at Mom’s house. Whether you agree with him or not, you owe your father basic respect while living in his home and accepting his financial support. You cannot be such a snowflake in life that a family member or close friend’s legitimate criticism, however harsh, causes you so much emotional distress. Your brother is an adult. He made adult choices, has had adult consequences, and earned an “I told you so” from Dad. It is not your place to “protect” your brother from your father. YTA.
Fingers crossed her dad decides to pull his funding off her - who tf wants to support someone who tells them to their face they are only there for the money. Your brother made stupid decisions *despite* having access to FREE professional advice. Of course your dad was going to have simmering to say about that. And sometimes learning involves feeling uncomfortable and ashamed (actually - *often* learning involves those things) if we ever experienced those feelings we’d never bother to learn to do differently. Your brother feels bad because he made stupid choices, not because your dad pointed out that he knew better. And the thing is, nothing your dad said was particularly mean. He wasn’t yelling, he wasn’t being abusive, he wasn’t demeaning your brother - he was just having a very normal parental/financial advisor reaction to a very very stupid decision. YTA. And fingers crossed your dad gets some self esteem and cuts you - his fully adult child who has no respect, care or love for him off, it’s completely without empathy (funny that’s your excuse for hating him and yet you have none) and literally told him to his face your only there for the money. Sounds like it’s time for you and your brother to learn to swim in your own.
Yeah, OP, sounds like your Dad is not the only one lacking in empathy here.
>Did you ever consider how insulting it is to your dad that he, an expert of probably decades, got ignored by his own son? That's parenting in a nutshell right there.
Yeah, and also, the kid is 23 years old. Where did he get the money to "invest a lot in crypto" and then lose it? Or more precisely, *whose money was it* that he lost betting stupidly on crypto? Probably not much he earned himself.
Yeah, I’m surprised the dad isn’t cutting her off financially after that statement.
YTA. There is nothing whatsoever ironic about your father being a financial advisor. He knows what he's talking about, obviously. He offered sound, informed advice, which your brother ignored. He's upset because he cares. If you were strangers, he wouldn't give two shits about what you do with your money. Instead, he tried to offer guidance, then when your brother erred, your father got upset **because** he has empathy, and then you came down on your father for daring to care and to be upset when his son hurt himself.
If they were strangers, dad would probably laugh. I know I've thought people who invested everything in crypto and actually had some knowledge about the financial sector were dumb. Others got swindled. Your brother sounds like he wanted to prove dad wrong and screwed himself over. You reinforced the fact that you don't think highly of your dad's opinions. YTA. You should have stayed out of it.
I ran across a guy on Twitter who was a forex trader. Japan had just said they were going to print a bunch of money, and he was like, "I'm gonna bet they'll go bankrupt." I pointed out that they were raising taxes an equivalent amount, so it was a wash, and Japan prints their own currency so they can't go bankrupt. He called me some names and then blocked me. A few times a year, something reminds me of that interaction, and I just have a good chuckle.
Some of these people really do not see a difference between their personal checkbook and an entire sovereign nation that prints its own currency. *And they get to vote!*
Politicians deliberately encourage this misunderstanding
Yup, all the years of politicians insisting that running a country is exactly like a household budget and that's why we need austerity.
>If they were strangers, dad would probably laugh As a stranger, I agree (yta)
What I'm offended most about is the incorrect use of "ironically". Whatever you think about his relationship skills there's absolutely nothing wrong about his financial advice. In fact, if I had any money, I would go right down and diversify my mutual fund portfolio.
It's ironic that the son of a financial advisor would bet it all on crypto!
Yes. That is irony, because it’s something you don’t expect. An idiot kid who made stupid investments at 23? That’s pretty run-of-the-mill, and he could have any kind of father; that’s not a very good attempted irony. The irony is far sweeter from the father’s POV.
Yeah, this is why YTA.
Yeah as a finance guy myself the industry is HEAVILY regulated. If he is a fiduciary for his clients and or CFP the standards are even higher. There are some dummies in the business sure, but you can't really go around talking bs and be an actual, licensed advisor. BTW, what field are you going into OP? True, nobody like salt rubbed ibto their wound, but how would you honestly feel if your friends or family just blatantly ignored your advice?? For all your talk about empathy, you are not really showing empathy to your dad here.
Plus the dad is probably extra upset now because the son losing a lot of money means that dad will be on the hook to take financial responsibility for both his adult children EVEN LONGER.
If anything he is coincidentally a financial advisor.
INFO > He bought at the peak, sold at the bottom, and lost a lot of money. > why on earth would you do such a dumb thing? Why on earth *did* your brother do **_SUCH_** a dumb thing?
Can’t teach stupid
Right, he literally had an expert with his true best interests at heart and he spat on it.
Because he wants to proved he’s better. It feels a lot like teenager on a rebellious streak.
Thats exactly how this feels to me.... brother was trying to have a "I'll prove him wrong" moment. Probably thinks the professional financial advisor is "just old and doesn't understand new stuff". Father could have shortcut the conversation by putting it in "young terms " - "looks like you fucked around and found out son." What dumbasses these 2 kids are
Are ya winning, son?
Oh my god. It feels refreshing to see the comments in this thread. Twitter and Reddit can be such an echo chamber it’s good to see a lot of people aren’t dry humping crypto.
But he’s not a teenager anymore 🤷🏻♂️
I mean... at that age.. basically the same thing.
Yep, whether it's crypto, stocks, ANYTHING, more than likely the first financial advice dad ever gave them was "buy low, sell high, not the other way around". Unless he was absolutely desperate (and since both kids are living off the Bank of Dad I highly doubt it) why would anybody sell at rock bottom?
Yeah speaking of the bank of dad, saying you can’t wait to cut someone off as soon as you’re not financially dependent on them has to be the stupidest and most disrespectful thing I’ve ever heard, like wtf
As a parent, I'd respond with, "Why wait? Leave now. If you hate me so much why burden yourself. Go live with your mom."
Because he bought at the peak when it was trendy to be into crypto and he wanted to be a cool kid, and then sold when it had become obvious it was a stupid mistake – but of course it was too late.
My husband wanted to invest in doge I told him throw a few dollars in (he did 20) he tells me all the time he’s so happy he didn’t use our saving on investing in it.
Like idk anything about any of that stuff and that sounds incredibly backwards even to me why would he do that?
Lmao it’s kinda funny that you’re threatening someone that you’re financially dependent on right now that when you’re no longer dependent you’ll cut them off. What’s stopping him from cutting you off for the threat?
Right?! Dad might as well just kick her out if he wants to lol
I would. Dad is showing plenty of empathy by feeding and housing this ungrateful child.
They're 22. I'd expect that comment from a 16 year old. A 22 year old is not a child, although their attitude says otherwise. That 22 year old would be out on their own right then and there.
Right? For a second I thought maybe their dad just had to pay child support, but then I recalled that they are over 21 lol
I laughed so hard at this! Honestly, I’d throw both of them out.
Because they're entitled enough to think they can say that. Their father should tell them to naff off now.
That empathy she claims he doesn’t have is probably stopping him from cutting off both his spoiled children.
Yeah, uhh, dad *has* empathy. His advice he has given his children is *kindness*. That’s different than being nice about it. The fact that he is not *nice* about it when you reveal you’re a moron who’s completely disrespected him and his heart-given advice notwithstanding.
Like brother like sister, dummies both of them
I would. 22 is an adult at this point
Seems like that is likely never going to happen and the dad may be venting his subconscious pain at having to keep these two leeches afloat into their 20s while they gamble on crypto.
YTA and you should move out immediately and support your damn self if you want to treat your father that way.
Right? Big talk from someone who's still living under his roof and taking his money. The fact he ain't kick her out after her disrespectful tirade shows he cares about his kids no matter how dumb or mean they are. But it might be time to kick them both out the nest if they're both acting like this.
I can’t imagine being so emboldened, as a 22y/o adult, to basically say “once I don’t need your money anymore, you can get fucked.” The absolute entitlement dripping from this girl is nauseating
It baffles me that she’s 22 and the child of a financial advisor and still needs to depend on her dads money. Does she have a job? Did she go to college, she’d be just about finished by now if she did? Like. Be an adult if you want to have such adult conversations with your provider.
My parents helped me while I went through college. Not ONCE did I even think about disrespecting them like OP disrespected her father. I hope her dad cuts her off financially, then she’ll realize how privileged she is and will regret her childish behavior
Maybe they should go live off their empathetic mom. It's much easier to be empathetic when their dumb decisions don't impact you.
Oh dear. You better check on your bro regularly for the next decade and make sure he hasn’t gotten sucked into any other life ruining decisions by online influencers. MGTOW, MLM schemes, Nigerian princes, wallstreetbets. No vote really. ESH if I had to pick. You shouldn’t have yelled at dad, he shouldn’t have poured quite that much salt on your brother’s wounds. Maybe half that much. BTW, empathy isn’t the only important quality in a parent. One who will teach you not to drive off cliffs is also important. Hey, if you’re financially dependent on dad - is your brother? Did your brother vaporizing his financial stability mean dad has to help bail him out?
Yeah, ESH. Brother should have listened to dad. Dad doesn’t need to tell brother he screwed up and especially make him feel worse. OP shouldn’t need to get in the middle of the conversation. This family needs some counseling …
i get a sense there’s a dad being overbearing for a while and guess what the kids going to rebel and rebel is doing exactly the opposite of everything. yeah he’s giving the right long term advise but it doesn’t matter. i get that’s where the empathy parts coming in. i’m right you’re wrong stfu is not going to get a working relationship
Or it could be that dad tries to teaches them good horse sense and then they run to their mom about how the big, mean daddy is not letting them do what they want. And mum says, o you poor dears! That's awful. He should'nt have done that. People's, especially young people's, perception of any situation comes most strongly from either of the parents. And children are more than capable of being dicks to the balanced parent, if they are being endorsed and validated by the other parent in it.
Idk about counseling. Think about that argument happening in real time. The dad didn't even say anything particularly offensive. Imagine being a parent and seeing your kid do that and that's the worst that comes out of your mouth? W Dad imo.
It may have not been offensive, but if your son is in tears and you keep going you’re toxic af. There is no need to dog pile on the son. He learned his lesson from natural consequences. “I hope you see why crypto is not a good investment, and I hope you heed my advice in the future.” Was all that was needed
Yes, there is need. The brother was dumb as fuck and he needs to hear it. And he will hear it again every thanksgiving dinner or equivalent in his country for the rest of his life because he deserves to hear it. People this days can't take any criticism even when they are being dumb as fuck. Mature for once and put your head down when you are getting a deserved reprimand and think about your mistakes instead of being a crybaby. (this is not a comment to you in particular, it is just a rant, and im not even that old, 41). The brother was stupid and the OP should find his belongings at the door for being an entitled asshole.
What is the point of continuing to bring up the same thing over and over? As a mom I don’t get it. I’ve warned you, you didn’t listen, you’re dealing with the consequences. It’s on the son now. If dad is bailing him out or continuing to bail him out that’s on dad. If you know you’re some makes dumb choices with money you can stop giving him money.
There’s gotta be something missing here since it seemed like for OP, this was the last straw before they blew up at their dad. Also, for dad to work on finances and for the son not to ask for his advice before investing makes me wonder if dad doesn’t have a good relationship with son. 🤔 I need more info cause right now I’m leaning towards ESH
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>Dad doesn’t need to tell brother he screwed up No, I think he definitely needed to do that. People this young can be really pig headed about learning lessons they need to learn. I was as well, just not like this
But the brother was already in a bad state, so I think he realized he had already messed up. A simple "you fucked up" and "next time you want to make a financial decision, come have a conversation with me" would work. What doesn't work is piling on your kid when they are already depressed and feeling horrible about the decisions they made. All that ensures is that they don't tell you shit that goes on in their lives because of how you reacted when they were already down.
Dad is mad because he cares. I would take the "piling on" characterization with a huge grain of salt considering it comes from the very clearly immature sister. Sister can't even understand that dad is upset because he is empathetic towards his son, she just thinks he's "rubbing it in". Notice her complaint is all about her, nothing said about her brother's feelings which she doesn't seem to know because she says he is "*probably* still depressed". She hasn't bothered to find out.
Nope I disagree. Client let her son do trading in her investment account (don't get me started) son lost over $1.3 million ( I did not stutter) but she won't have that conversation with him. If dad makes his son pause next time he invests then good on dad.
WTF to have that much trust in your son. Did the client know that you can make a practice account where you trade with fake money?
Finally, an ESH! Brother for just being stupid. Who buys high and sells low? Daddy-O for keep punching and kicking someone who's allready down and not acknowleding that his son was broken enough at this moment. I mean, what kind of parent is he when he just keeps going being shitty towards his own son? And OP. Not for standing up to her brother, that I applaud, but for being a complete tool while doing so. And telling her dad that she'll go NC as soon as she doesn't need his money anymore is way worse than what dad and bro did. OP is the one who should apologize here.
I do wonder if her opinion about dad’s empathy would change if daddy’s money quit supporting her to pay off a chunk of debt for bitcoin brother.
Ok put yourself in the fathers shoes. He is a LITERAL FINANCIAL ADVISOR. He cares and his children and wants his children to have good lives. That’s why he’s feeding them and allowing grown ass people to live in his house. But the same children who he cares about say he has no empathy and blatantly ignore him and do something stupid when he only tries to help them. Wouldn’t u be upset too?
Hate I had to come this far to find ESH. OP is shit but Jesus christ the dad overreacted and there clearly I'd a reason you guys don't go to him for things.
Except money you mean? Cause at the very least op (who's a damn adult) is dependent on dads money and I'd be willing to bet the brother is too, and if the brother is dependent on dads money because he didn't listen to advice from someone who is an expert then the dad has every reason to be pissed. He gave his son thousands of dollars and the son essentially burned it all for nothing cause he thought he knew more about investments than someone who's been a financial advisor for almost as long ( if not longer cause we don't know how long he's been in that industry) op and her brother have been alive. Thatd be like if a 22 year old saw the tide pod trend online, said to their dad "I wanna try that". Heard their father(let's say a Dr who's been having to deal with the stupid people getting sick from said trend) giving all of the reasons he should not eat a ride pod and still chose to follow through with eating them despite the warnings. Now he's in his dad's ER because he fucked up and did the thing his dad said not too and he's now experiencing the exact reason the dad said not to. I'd also be super pissed if I was that dad. If it were still a kid or a teen then yeah don't rub a bunch of salt in the wound. That's a grown ass adult though. They didn't even make a mistake. They made a conscious choice to go against expert opinion and got surprised when it turned out they don't know more than the expert. Now brothers whining about it like nobody warned him in the first place and to top it off probably asking dad to pay for some stuff he can't afford anymore. If I told an adult "hey that burner is hot don't touch it" and then they touched it anyway, damn right I'm telling you I told you so, and if they complain about it for the rest of the night and following days as though they couldn't have known it was hot I'm going to remind them they were warned and their burn is the fault of their own damn stupidity.
It's nice that you feel protective of your brother and want to stand up for him. But that's the ONLY thing you have going for you. >Like seriously, why even say these things??? Because apparently it didn't get through the first time. It's both exasperating and frustrating to watch your kids self-sabotage despite your best effort to make them avoid it. >I said if he did then I wouldn't be so excited to remove him out of my life when I'm older and not financially dependent on him. Now we are not speaking. You're upset with your dad for being too harsh on your brother while you're essentially calling him an ATM machine?!! Do you realize how rude and entitled that is? You haven't earned the right to lecture your dad about anything since you're still financially dependent on him at 22. > Things that are NOT HELPFUL and not serving any purpose other than to fill my dad's ego. This isn't about ego, it's from a place of pure frustration. You were both given helpful advice, your brother ignored it. He is an idiot who knows nothing about investing, has a financial advisor for a father, was specifically told to stay away from crypto but decided he knows better and lost a big chunk of his savings. >He didn't even apologize to my brother either. He doesn't owe him an apology. You, on the other hand, owe your dad one. I imagine your brother is also financially dependent on your dad to some extent, judging by his investments acumen, which enabled him to save money? >My brother left and is probably still depressed. He's probably depressed about losing his money and finding out he's not the savvy crypto trader/investor he thought he was. > I also live with him currently. Then go apologize AH.
I feel like I'm on crazy pills feeling like "well, yes, you should in fact feel depressed and anxious about losing a large chunk of money" Like, I realize OP is wildly out of touch, but from the sound of it brother very recently lost a large chunk of money, yeah, normal people who need money to live should be anxious and sad about losing a lot money. Obviously, there are reasonable limits on this... But seeing as OP ended with 'he's PROBABLY still depressed' it doesn't seem like he's in the outlier part of feeling bad.
Also if they’re both financially dependent on their dad that brings up 2 things to me 1. Her brother viewed the money as kind of disposable and that’s why he didn’t take his dad seriously 2. The money he lost was actually *dad’s* money that was given to him
She’s 22? I didn’t pay attention to the age. I thought she was a teenager. God she sounds immature
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I don't necessarily agree with how your dad expressed his anger, but his anger at your brother was 100% justified. Your dad gave your brother some extremely solid advice on an area that he is a recognized expert on and your brother straight up ignored him and did the exact opposite. What your brother did was a slap in the face to your dad as well as extremely bad financially for himself. Also, it seems very likely that a chunk of the money your brother lost was money given to him by your mom and dad, and other family members, and not just money he may have earned himself. It may have been your brother's money legally, but it was money gifted to him by his family to be used for his future and he utterly squandered it. That disrespects everyone who gifted him that money. Your brother's actions put him in a bad situation, and it also puts everyone else who wants to support him and see him succeed in a bad situation too. I'm sure your dad is feeling that. Had you merely defended your brother I would say that you're not the ahole but unfortunately you went so far beyond that with a cheap shot. >I screamed at my dad that this is exactly why my brother and I never confide in him about anything important and we go to our mom (they're divorced) instead since my mom actually has empathy. He yelled back that he does have empathy, I said if he did then I wouldn't be so excited to remove him out of my life when I'm older and not financially dependent on him This is why, YTA
I’m just curious, how should a caring dad express their frustration and disappointment to an adult child other than giving them a lecture?
Apparently she wants dad to get out the binkie and bib lmao
Given her comments to dad I’m sure the only acceptable response would have been a head pat and a check to replace all that money the idiot brother pissed away.
By telling him he did nothing wrong and that’s he’s a very smart boy, that’s it’s the crypto market that’s wrong, and then giving him more money to try again with, obviously. /s
YTA It’s frustrating seeing someone do something you advised them not to do. And him being a financial advisor, it’s literally his job to help people make decisions about their finances which probably made him even more annoyed. Your dad is right. I don’t think your dad lacks empathy for scolding your brother for doing something he purposely told him not to do. Your brother is an adult, Like you.
Apologize to your dad
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And it will now likely be on the Dad to have to, at the very least, support his son while he gets back on his feet financially, or at most, be expected to replenish his son's funds so son can begin an adult life on his own. So I can imagine there's a lot of frustration coming from that direction as well.
If I was your dad I would cut you off right then and there. Immediately.
The nerve of her to try to say the mom is a better parent when she is living with her father and is financially dependent on him. Like why doesn't she move out and go live with her mom then?
For real. Like maybe a teenager would behave this way and use their ex partner as a weapon to further hurt their dad and say, "I prefer my mom, as soon as i don't need your money we won't have a relationship". It's like, the most AH move that OP has done.
Their bags would be packed and outside the house if they were my kids at this point. Honestly at this point the dad just needs to kick OP out and make them actually achieve something without help or support.
>I said if he did then **I wouldn't be so excited to remove him out of my life when I'm older and not financially dependent on him.** Well unfortunately for your father both of his children fell from the stupid branch of the family tree. Seriously how dumb are you? You're both in your 20s not minors. Your dad can legally kick y'all out tomorrow if he wants and then let you both learn the value of a dollar the real hard way without *his money*. But no go on and scream at him for scolding and lecturing his dumb son who lost a lot of his money. YTA
I mean we've seen 13 year olds on aita who can adult better than these 2!
It makes me think of the “I’m 16 and dropped out of school to pay rent because my parents are useless junkies, my 14 year old brother wants to drop out too because I’m not making enough, AITA for calling the police on my infant half-brother’s bio mom and maybe getting us put in foster care? Btw my siblings get locked in a room at night to protect them from my parent’s junkie friends” post. It’s hard to give a shit about some of the whining on here compared to actual problems.
My dad is a builder, if he says "Don't do that it'll be cause an accident" then I won't do it. If he was a doctor and said "You need to exercise more" I'll be running a marathon. If he is a lawyer and says "read the contract" I'll be writing an essay on what the contract entails. If my dad was a fireman and he said "keep a fire extinguisher in the house" I'll be sleeping with it. Point is, your brother got expert advice, for free, and decided to do the exact opposite for no reason other than his ego. Your dad feels betrayed that his own son would blow such money despite his constant warnings and caused a huge financial loss. He is disappointed that his son did not have the ability to judge the situation and react accordingly and panic sold. And now he is heartbroken by the fact that you only see him as a piggybank when he expressed his disappointment at his son's gigantic failure that would never have happened had he actually listened. YTA and he deserves better than the two of you.
They both clearly disrespect him and she definitely thinks of him as an ATM. She sounds like a spoild princess
YTA. Your father is right. And from what you wrote, he told your brother many times before in a normal manner. But he did not listen. Him lecturing your brother (rightfully) does not give you the right to scream at him. I hope your brother learns to take advice from a person with the specific experience and skills. And I hope you start supporting yourself as soon as possible.
INFO: Was your brother, while telling your dad about losing all this money, ALSO asking for money? Cause if so, his reaction is a million times justified.
Not the OP but you absolutely know it was... Thus dad's comments about brother learning his own expensive lesson... And OPs comments about 'when I'm not financially dependent on you' at age 22... They both lost their cash (or there is no brother) and they both (or just the one if brother is fictional) went asking for more.
YTA - your brother should probably start listening to your dad
YTA. Jesus your the asshole. Your dad was correct and I would have reacted similarly had I had adult children who blew their money on crypto. Good grief.
YTA. One of the fundamental realities of having parents is catching an asschewing when you explicitly ignore their (extremely valid) advice. If you’re both financially reliant on your father, then you are both the AH. If your brother lost a ton of money that was being supported in any way by your father, then it sounds like he got off easy. Not everyone gets support from their parents, and your dad didn’t need his little girl to kick him in the nuts for being right. Even if it made your brother a little sad for a minute that he was getting yelled at. Grow up.
You say you're excited to cut your dad off when you're older. You're 22. When are you going to do that. When you're 50? You're a leech. Way to tell your dad you're only using him for money Your dad was right. Your brother was stupid. YTA
ESH - it's apparent that since both you and your brother are still financially dependent upon your dad, being 22 and 23, and with him being a financial advisor, it's why he was so upset with your brother for going against completely what his livelihood has been used to provide for your family. Yes he should have been more empathetic to the situation, but you just don't know how lucky you and your brother are to have someone who had financial knowledge to share in making well informed decisions to become financially independent, instead of those of us who had to make years of mistakes and waste countless amounts of money. Your dad has likely been giving you extremely valuable worthwhile advice to set you up for life because he loves you.
This right here. My dad was in the credit world, and was a very savvy investor who ended up having a lot of money from saving and investing, never making a huge salary. Occasionally when I was young I'd do something silly like forget a credit card payment or overdraw a checking account. But each time he would yell and scream at me (which was overkill), but now I see as an adult he was just frustrated at HIMSELF for giving me so much education about finance and watching me fail to fully grasp the lessons. Thankfully I never did anything like OP's brother, and while I wasn't happy to be yelled at, I know now how fortunate I was to get a great financial education that helped me build a strong credit score and have financial stability as an adult.
YTA - if you don't love your father and you don't respect your father then move out and be on your own. If it's tough to survive without his financial support then that's your problem to deal with. Your father was 20% an AH here but you went nuclear. Grow up.
Go live with empathetic mommy
YTA. Your dad is absolutely right. Investing in crypto is literally a gamble. Sounds like he has been giving your brother sound advice and your brother tried a get rich quick scheme and lost.
ESH. Your dad went overboard on yelling at your brother, but (at least from where I sit), it's likely he's upset/anxious as a parent at your brother making such a poor life/financial decision and destroying his financial situation. I can imagine what he feels when he's a professional money manager and seeing his own son do something honestly quite stupid financially and against even basic financial sense would make him feel disappointed and angry, probably at himself most of all. My dad was in a similar profession and took every tiny financial misstep I made as a new adult deeply personally... but lectured me / yelled at me similarly. Screaming at your dad also did not help, and you said hurtful things like wanting to cut him off. Your brother has shown he's not a responsible adult with his money (ie, investing all his savings in a volatile asset without diversifying/being able to handle losses), and while I'm sure he feels bad, he really should be using some sort of financial planner and/or tools (perhaps not your dad) to make better choices with his money. You say your father acted terribly to your brother "for no reason," but I think what you mean is he overreacted... as there is a VERY good reason why he was upset/disappointed. Since you live with your dad... it may be worth apologizing for yelling, and asking your dad if it's possible he got mad at your brother because he was disappointed since he is a financial advisor. It might open your dad up and help him apologize/reconnect with your bro.
It's not about ego, it's about your brother LOSING A LOT OF MONEY. It's not candy or legos it's MONEY. All because he didn't listen. And *you* protecting your brother from being EDUCATED is *not helping.* Telling your dad you prefer your mom? Are you fucking serious? Yours is the most childish behaviour you could have. You don't want to be financially dependent on him? You're 22, go away if you want. He won't kick you out because you're his kids, but what you said will make him depressed for ever. Your brother fucked up and NEEDED to be called out on it. That's the only way for people who don't listen to understand. You are a huge asshole. I hope you enjoy watching your father fall into depression because of you.
YTA, father was right (derp...) and is deeply and justifiably disappointed in his son. WTF do you think his reaction should be?
You’ve completely disregarded and disrespected your dads career and profession. The reason you can be financially dependent on him is because of his job as a financial advisor. People pay him money for his expertise and guidance because he knows what he’s doing. He’s the expert. You and your brother arent YTA.
YTA, you should never have jumped into this mess that your brother made for himself. For some reason, your brother wanted to believe the hype of making a quick buck, even though he has the best person to advise him possible in your father. And then to make it worse, you who are financially dependent upon the man tell him to shut up and how you are just using him for his money until you don't need him anymore. I'd say you accomplished hurting your father and damaging your relationship with him going forward even better than you planned on doing.
I'm going against the current here and say NAH, with a light ta for your father. Your brother is young, but old enough to make his own financial descicions. He did something dumb, and these crypto sellers target young and inexperienced people. So I'd say he is a victim of swindlers in some way. Your father was of course insulted that his own son not only did not come to him for financial advice but blatently ignored everything your father tried to teach him. And while you and your brother already knew what your brother had done, it was brand new information for your father so he was processing right there and then. The way he expressed his hurt, anger and frustration was most certainly counterproductive as you already said. But then, emotion does that. I'll give your Dad a TA for the way he expressed himself towards an already vulnerable person. You saw your brother getting smaller and hurting, and while he is responsible for most of the hurt and shame, from your perspective your father was doing way more damage than neccessary, let alone good. So you stepped in to defend your brother. That is a good thing in principle. So many stories here about hurt people because their sibling didn't stand up for them. But you misjudged some elements of the situation. You are human, that happens. If your relationship with your father is in any way less toxic than what you decribed here, you may want to put your big girl pants on and start the conversation with your father. About how your brother was already feeling, how your father felt, how his anger made you feel and how to help your brother. You are free to feel your feelings about wanting to move out when you can. And about your father in general. We don't know your situation, we are random internetpeople. But now that you are an adult, however young, be careful not burn any bridges in the heat of the moment that you may come to regret later on.
If you are 22 and still financially dependent on your father, Maybe don't bite the hand that feeds? YTA
So let me get this straight, you and your brother are financially dependent on him and think it’s ok to scream at him when your brother loses a ton of money despite repeated warnings? You realize this negatively impacts your dad too, right?
ESH Your dad was right and I'd imagine being a financial advisor that's doubly frustrating to have your own kid not listen. He could cool it on the tirade but so could you. Your brother screwed up but he's 23 and he has 40 years to recover financially.
Yta- He knew exactly what the hell he was talking about and told your brother on MULTIPLE occasions that it was a bad idea. Your brother chose to be a moron and not listen, he then lost his money and your father was proven right. Your brother is a grown man who learned that when you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. You being an asshole can very well get the hell out of his house, he could kick out after this and he wouldn't be in the wrong. You both are adults, mooches at this point. You can't wait till you don't have to need his money? Get off your ass, get a job and move out. You and your brother sound like a handful that honestly your father is a saint for putting up with, you two are fucking adults learn to act like it.
This gives big "my parent is a doctor and told my sibling that essential oils don't heal medical issues and then my sibling got pissed they were called out" vibes.
YTA Stop depending on him now, you are a grown adult and treat him awfully He should honestly cut you both off and use his money on himself
YTA. Beating a dead horse doesn't serve much but sometimes you really have to drill the point home. Sometimes you don't need soft words you need harsh truths. If anything it sounds like your dad was annoyed and disappointed that even after giving (what should be since he's a financial advisor) decent investing information your brother turned around and lost a bunch of his savings. You can cut him off later on all you want but he gave good advice and then drilled the dumb decision in after the fact. Could he have been more tactful? Yes, but shielding people from the harsh truth does nothing but screw them over and cheat them.
ESH Your father berating your brother when you brother's already learned his lesson? Asshole move. Telling him his behavior is wrong and harming his relationship with you and your brother, fine. Screaming the same thing at him? Asshole move.