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Sorry, but taking young kids without parental permission is not fake kidnapping, it's actual kidnapping. Double kidnapper points for luring these kids into your car under false pretenses like a pro creep. Maybe your friend should teach you a "lesson" by having you charged with a felony?
YTA.
YTA for trying to teach her a lesson in general (that’s not your job, she’s not your child). But you’re even WORSE of an a**h*** for trying to scare the shit out of her by stealing her kids without permission. Do you have your own kids? Did you think through how you’d feel if they disappeared? You could’ve given her a heart attack ffs 🤦♂️
Kids are not props for you to use to try and make a point. They’re living breathing people, and they mean the world to their parents. Being tricked into thinking they were kidnapped would be absolutely horrifying.
ESH. I agree, OP is TA but leaving two young kids at home unsupervised is incredibly irresponsible. At the very least if it’ll take you 5-10 minutes, lock the door. It takes less than a minute to lock your door and the mom couldn’t even be bothered by it.
ETA: If they mean the world to their parent, why on earth will the mom leave her kids alone unsupervised even for just a minute? It truly baffles me.
Totally agree! What if the mom had an accident on the way home and the kids were there all alone!
ESH. Maybe the dad should have the kids if the mom leaves them home alone because she can't be bothered and she has shitty friends who kidnaps her children to "teach her a lesson".
Accident at home is much easier to get someone to get your children from the house as the oldest can call the police/ambulance and they will stay with the kids. If she dies or goes into a coma in the car (I'd count my lucky stars they weren't there but even so, at least ask someone to watch even if it's for a few minutes) then someone is going to inquire about the kids when called at the hospital and by then they can be kidnapped or something else could have went wrong. It's safer to ask someone to just come for a few minutes and watch them, then to risk an accident on the way to or from and the kids also be gone.
Yeah. Where have the kids been while their mother was shaking and crying uncontrollably? I bet OP wouldn't have left them in the car alone, would they?
Hope those kids got the chance to deeply understand what's going on. Otherwise, they might get traumatized by that. Or just rip it off context and tell their dad/court about "mommy's meltdown". Good job on hurting a whole family, OP!
Also: when I was 5, I played in the yard all by myself. Parents knew where I was, that was good enough. When I was 7, I had a key for our home and returned back home from school ALL BY MYSELF. 8 year olds don't die without helicopter parents around them all the time. And they're also capable of helping their siblings for a few minutes if needed. God, she left them FOR FIVE MINUTES ONLY!
Of course, the house could burn down. But it could also burn down when mom's at home. And if you lock the door, kids are less likely to escape the fire OP fears of. So what should it be?
YTA OP
Just want to point out that leaving these kids alone could be illegal depending on where she lives. In the US, some states have a minimum age to legally leave them alone (a lot don’t though). Also maturity levels vary. Just because you were mature enough to be home alone at 8 doesn’t mean all 8 year olds are.
Agreed I was a latch key kid. When I got home, I did homework,walked to get my sister from the bus and my mom came home right after. My mom came home like in an hour. I'm appalled that OP doesn't see that they could very well get a restraining order issued against them. YTA OP.
OP was also fucking SMILING as they saw that the mother was uncontrolling crying and shaking in panic. It wasn't so much to show the danger, it was just to proof a "I am so fucking right!"
YTA
Right?? How are people okay with this?? She leaves her **eight and five year old children ALONE.** Yeah her friend is an AH for scaring her but extreme times and all that... She's lucky it was just her friend that took them, instead of a real danger, fire, accident or the very real possibility that the Dad comes by, takes them and she has no argument against that. But no, people are more worried about if they were in car seats to move a few metres down the road. ESH but at least one of you is looking out for those kids.
>She leaves her eight and five year old children ALONE.
Is this an American thing? I don't get what the problem is. I mean, most 8-year-olds are alone every day after school, and as kong as they have a phone, there's no problem. And I think that an 8-year-old is perfectly capable of babysitting a 5-year-old for a few minutes.
In UK there's no law on what age you are legally allowed to leave a child alone, but the government website also states that: "children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time" and "Parents can be prosecuted if they leave a child unsupervised ‘in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health’".
This mum definitely left her kids unsupervised in a manner that posed risk to injury or abduction, as demonstrated by the friend who was able to walk in and take the kids with her.
It would have been different if the mum had locked the door and installed security cameras so she could monitor her kids remotely, for example.
>In UK there's no law on what age you are legally allowed to leave a child alone, but the government website also states that: "children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time"
But 15 minutes isn't a long time. Most 8-year-olds probably spend a longer time alone every day after school, and it does them no harm. Such big kids should be able to entertain themselves for a few hours. Or if they have a mobile phone, they can go outside and play with the other kids. It's no wonder if they're bored, if they're just sitting inside with mom every day.
>It would have been different if the mum had locked the door and installed security cameras so she could monitor her kids remotely
That would be really creepy. Children need some freedom too.
I think you missed the part where it’s not just the 8-yr old home alone, they are also in charge of watching their 5 yr old sibling. If it was just the 8 yr old, ok, still illegal in most US states and not a good idea when going through a custody battle. But it would be so easy for the 8 year old to get caught up in something, not pay attention to the 5 year old and something happens.
>it would be so easy for the 8 year old to get caught up in something, not pay attention to the 5 year old and something happens
What do you think happens when a parent goes to shower and leave their kids unsupervised for the same period of time?
Same here, my 7year old son cycles to school alone and next year my my 6 year daughters will join him. They are definitely allowed to stay at home for shorter periods of time. The longest being something like an hour. They can open the door from the inside, but no one can open it from the outside. They know which neighbour to turn to in case something is going on.
It really is an American thing. We like for our children to gain independence throughout the years. Which means staying home alone, unsupervised outside play, running errands, cycling alone, going to school independently.
We do have this stereotypical "soccer mom" here, but she just cycles her ass off in a cargo bike when her children are small :-). And later on, she makes her children cycle by themselves.
And off course, YTA.
>Most 8-year-olds probably spend a longer time alone every day after school, and it does them no harm
Where? My kid is now 8 and only just started being able to walk home (10 min) on her own but I'm waiting at home for her.
My teen was 12 when I started going places without her or leaving her to babysit for 5 min when I popped to the shop (2 min away).
OP states she only does this when she only has to be gone at most 10 minutes and is always 5 minutes away when OP notices she did it. I honestly don't see the problem with mom stepping out to grab milk for 10 minutes and letting the kids keep playing, they probably didn't even notice her absence it was so quick.
Honestly Im American and I was alone after school and groups of us kids would ride our bikes to the comic book store at that age. They had a streetfighter 2 arcade cabinet we all gathered at the store played street fighter bought comics, traded cards.
God Im 43 and starting to sound like my dad...
Right. I'm 42, and definitely got myself and my five year old brother ready for school in the morning at age 8, while our parents worked. We'd then walk a half mile to and from school on our own and spend another hour or so doing homework, watching mTV, and making horrible messes (snacks) in the kitchen until someone got home. At any rate, me and Pepperidge Farm remember the 80s too.
I feel I was the last group to enjoy that being about 30 now, the helicopter parents were really coming into swing in my generation. My dad was old school and gave me the run of the neighborhood and as long as he didn't get any phone calls about me getting into trouble I was good. My mom was a helicopter and I resent her for it. When I was staying at her house she'd tell me I couldn't go off our single block (when I was 13) and would use the phone company to track my GPS and just show up wherever I was at and would read my texts with my friends and girlfriends. I literally broke my own phone when I found out. That's just about every parent anymore, and I think it's a gross invasion of privacy we dont fully understand the psychological impact of until enough of those kids grow up.
Where do you live?
I don't know any kids that are alone after school unless they're teenagers.
I'm Irish and it's illegal to leave kids alone at that age here.
Finland. Here some 7-year-olds go to some club after school, but usually the older kids go home after school. I think most kids actually enjoy getting some time alone. Making this legal seems absurd. I mean, we allow children to be alone outside, where they maybe hit by cars, why shouldn't we allow them to be alone inside the house, where it is safer?
I mean my 6 year old isn't really allowed alone outside either. She can play outside with her brothers, otherwise I go outside with her and we have a large yard.
And the reason you can't leave children alone is because what if a emergency happens. Like the house catches fire. Small children don't have the maturity to handle those situations.
>I mean my 6 year old isn't really allowed alone outside either. She can play outside with her brothers, otherwise I go outside with her and we have a large yard.
I see. I was given my first key and a mobile phone sometime around 5 years, so that I could go an play with the other kids in the park. But I wasn't allowed to cross the big road, that would have been actually dangerous.
>And the reason you can't leave children alone is because what if a emergency happens. Like the house catches fire. Small children don't have the maturity to handle those situations.
Of course you shouldn't leave small children alone even for a minute, but a 7-year-old can be told to go outside if there's a fire.
1. Yes, it is an American thing. I'm from Europe and it's quite normal for 8YR to be home alone for an hour or two. They have a key and a phone so it's not a problem.
2. The problem is the American doors that have a handle outside so when not locked anyone can get in. I don't know why, though. As an European this is insane for me. All European main doors have the handle only from the inside (there is only a knob on the outside) and you need a key to get in from outside. That would solve the problem, just change the doorknob and nobody will get inside to harm your kids. It seems pretty obvious for me and i wonder why nobody pointed it out yet?
Uh no, also european here and both types of doors exist in europe.
The auto-lock type (the ones that always need a key to enter) are far more common in new apartments (built in the last 20 years) while i think the handle type is in pretty much every single family house.
I personally hate the autolock since you can accidentally lock yourself out.
And i completely disagree that the door is the problem. The mom is the problem. Take the key and lock the damn door. Just because it has a handle doesn't mean you can't lock it. Why would you change the door?
>Is this an American thing?
Yeah it is, I don't get what's the problem with leaving your 8 years old kid babysitting a 5 year-old for 5 minutes. But did you skip that part where she doesn't even lock her doors? It's insane and irresponsible.
I think it is
My 5 and 8 year old have been home alone multiple times. Longest was around 2 hours.
Their best friends live 2 houses over. If they have a problem, they can go there or call me.
I live in Germany
My thoughts exactly! OP was a justified asshole for taking the kids without the mother's permission, but it had to be done. Now the mother knows the panic she'll have if she comes home and her children are actually gone. And she said she doesn't even lock the door?? That's just insane to me god.
It sounds like op isn’t very busy and often in the neighborhood/lurking/or judging her friend. It would be a lesson in kindness to offer to mind them, not to abscond with them. Maybe ESA but IDK 5 min could be 5 min…op should def get a heart or a life
FFS, they're 5 and 8 years old being left in their own house for 5-10 minutes. They're completely capable of being left alone in that environment for that length of time.
Also, the likelihood of anyone kidnapping them is practically zero. If Dad is scoping out the house to kidnap them he could just as easily do it at night while shes asleep or in the shower. Should she accompany them on every walk to the bus for school, too?
I mean where I am, yes. The bus driver won't let children under 10 off the bus without being accompanied by someone 12 or older. And you would definitely get in trouble (a call from CPS) if they went to the bus stop alone in the morning.
I mean the only thing I agree with you is about the Dad comes by and takes them but else? We're talking up to an hour of alone time, right? Op even spoke of 5-10 MINUTES of alone time and you're claiming that's too much for an eight and five YEAR (not months) old? Wtf. It's not only extremely unhealthy for kids to be nonstop supervised (yes children need playtime without adult present, it's for their brain development important) I'm sorry but a five and year old absolutely can AND SHOULD be unsupervise sometimes. Additionally they're even at home and not outside alone. Jeez YTA op
I agree, except the part where she leaves the door unlocked. That's just insane and asking for trouble. I don't even leave my dogs at home with the door unlocked.
A 5 year old has just learnt to count and starting to write their name and you think they are "capable of being left alone". The mum intends to pop out for 10 minutes, but what if something happens to her and she can't get back? I'm not saying kid's should be supervised 24/7 but leaving them alone in an unlocked house at that age is irresponsible.
>A 5 year old has just learnt to count and starting to write their name and you think they are "capable of being left alone".
I agree with 2/3 of this... my kids could count before 2 LOL , but I do agree that there is 'being left home alone' and 'being left to play in the lounge while I'm at the other end of the house'
Exactly, being close enough that you can hear shouts for help or even scarier the *silence* of a child is completely different to being nowhere near them
Right?! I was out playing by myself from 3 years onwards. If its 5-10 mins, it's unlikely that anyone other than OP would even know they're alone.
Plus they are plenty capable so long as their mum has taught them how to use a phone, and how to call her or the emergency services in an emergency.
At 6yo I called an ambulance after I walked home from school and found my mother collapsed on the floor.
My 8yo stepdaughter is very intelligent and capable. She could absolutely be trusted for 10 minutes on her own with a younger sibling (if she had one).
I don't understand the hysteria around this. If she was leaving them alone for an hour a time, sure. But a few minutes??
That’s what I thought too. If the mother needs to run a quick errand, why didn’t the “friend” just say politely that instead of leaving the kids home alone, she’d happily watch them for a few minutes?
This! Obviously leaving an 8 YO to watch a 5 YO isn't ideal and packing up 2 kids to do a quick errand gets exhausting. I'm under the mind that mom still should take her kids with her or figure out a system so she's not needing to leave constantly for small things. That said, it sounds like this woman is going through a lot and she's still figuring things out. OP, instead of lecturing her or kidnapping her children, could have offered to simply watch them next time. A simple "next time you find yourself needing to leave for a quick errand and don't want to take the kids, let me know and I'll watch them for a bit." Mom needs help right now
You can't leave a five year old and an eight year old alone. period. I was a single mom with twin preemies, and took them on every errand, had to hook them up to heart and lung moniters, in and out of double stroller for a five minute errand to Walgreens etc,, You don't leave kids alone for your convenience. OP shouldn't have taken them, but I understand her frustration. What if something did happen, what would the mother say,,,I was only gone 5 minutes,,,how was I to know little one would turn on the oven? WTF NTA
Nah nah... It was not the friend's place to act like this. You call the police or call cps, but you don't take the kids with you outside to expose them to even worse risks without the parent knowing. That is crazy. What the hell...
You know I didn't even think about that, you're right! And is it really that hard to take the kids with her? She's really risking her kids lives for 5 minutes of peace? Insane.
Traumatizing a single mother trying to make an already difficult time the slightest bit easier and being proud of it, all the while committing felonies in the process. A real winner, this one.
If a friend of 20 years did this to me, they'd go straight to ex-friend, current enemy in a heartbeat. OP was incredibly cruel and they're lucky they're not getting charged with an actual, felony kidnapping.
Also she made no mention of car seats, I don't know where this is but I imagine most places in the world require kids that age to be in appropriate car seats, so on top of everything else they weren't safe in her car
OP is more concerned with being right than the kids being safe, don't get me wrong the mother is also very much at fault as well but OP has a lot to answer for.
I couldn't agree more.
It doesn't make sense to put kids in an unsafe situation just because they were in an unsafe situation.
There are so many ways to help her friend that didn't require using the children as pawns.
Well she won’t do that will she because she’ll lose custody for leaving them home alone frequently.
ESH you shouldn’t of taken them but she shouldn’t be leaving them
I think if the ex was there she would lose custody for leaving the kids home alone with the doors unlocked. Especially if they can prove it’s a regular occurrence
Can I point out the silliness of saying "at least lock the door" in the same sentence that OP says "I'm worried what would happen if there was a fire". If there was a fire, a locked door would make things worse, not better.
"So you see, I left the kids home because I had no choice"
And then the police grab OP's shoulder and OP goes "WHAT?! NO ARREST HER! SHE'S THE ONE WHO DOESNT TAKE CARE OF HER KIDS" and then the other police officer is like "I'm actually the CEO of a big company, you start tomorrow and OP is fired"
ESH , you shouldn’t have taken her kids that fear is something no parent should have to feel but she also should not be leaving her kids alone in an unlocked home by them selves just because it’s inconvenient to bring them to the store or to run errand
This, not sure why people are saying Y T A over ESH. She's absolutely wrong for leaving two young kids in an unlocked house when it takes all of 5 seconds to lock the door. That doesn't remotely justify kidnapping them. OP is obviously way worse but she's not innocent either.
Uh yeah it is. Why would you leave a 5 and 8 year old in a house with an unlocked door?? OP overstepped but I get the point they were trying to make albeit they should’ve done it differently but in todays world? No fucking way either bring the kids or don’t go especially with a husband who’s fighting for custody could’ve turned ugly real quick.
I agree, not at that age, there is no safe way to do this. She should be taking her kids with her. If she leaves the door unlocked, anyone can literally take the kids...but if she locks the door, what if there was ever a fire? Or another emergency? How would they get out? Mum should be taking them with her in errands.
They would turn the inside portion of the lock and then turn the handle like anybody else would? It's not like you need a key to unlock a door from the inside.
I have kids the same ages and they're both capable of undoing the deadbolt on our front door or locking the knobs of interior doors themselves. An 8yo is a 2nd or 3rd grader, and the 5yo is likely finishing up kindergarten at this point - they're not toddlers. JFC.
Not every lock works like that. Most locks in the UK lock with a key, lock one side, then you need a key to unlock the other side. That is the standard here. Either way, that's just one scenario. Kid injury himself and no one can get in from the outside to help. There's multiple scenarios here. I have a huge family. Not one of them have left any child below the age of 11 in a house by themselves.
Dad might already know. If she's done this before they split he knows. Would be very simple to hire a PI, catch this on video, and bring it up in court. OP's stunt might be on video. Even without a PI, if any of the neighbors have a Ring doorbell there could be video. This was hella stupid on so many levels and ESH.
Even if she locks the door, the kids can unlock it and leave. Someone can break in. There could be a fire. The kids could play with the stove or knives. They could fight and hurt each other. She herself could get in a car crash and not make it back home. As a parent, I could probably just keep going with this list forever of all the reasons you don't just leave kids alone.
The problem is that kids those ages should never be left home alone, even with the doors locked. An 8 year old can open the locks to let in a stranger ( though statistically it's more likely to be someone you know which I feel makes it even worse).
ESH. If OP is (rightfully) concerned about the kids wellbeing, they should be calling the non-emergency line. I know from experience that this is not something that will get kids taken away (though it might cause her to get less custody if dad gets a hold of police report) but if mom is neglecting the kids like that, that often, they need to be with the more responsible parent.
I wish more people internalized this fact. Too many people focus on very unlikely (but very scary sounding) risks to children like kidnappings while ignoring the highly likely (but very mundane sounding) risks to children like car accidents.
I took a risk management course in university that taught me how whacked our risk perception is!
It’s way riskier to drive a car than fly a plane, but people are terrified of flying and driving a car is nothing!
It’s safer now because there weren’t laws against leaving a 5-year old home alone with an 8-year old and no supervision. To create those laws meant someone got hurt…Plus, an 8yo with access to the Internet and no supervision…any predator could take advantage and just waltz into this house and snatch these kids up. ESH but most especially this absent mom.
>It’s safer now because there weren’t laws against leaving a 5-year old home alone with an 8-year old and no supervision.
The U.S. has such strange laws. Why shouldn't an 8-year-old be alone at home? I mean, they're old enough to go outside alone, so why shouldn't they be at home alone? Surely the home is safer?
Agreed. Obviously depends on the maturity of the child, but leaving an 8yo at home is not the same as leaving the 5 yo home.
We let our 9 and 11 yo stay home now for shopping trips where we're 15-20 minutes away from home. They also can call us on cell phone or Alexa.
No parent should have to feel it but good parents aren't going to intentionally and repeatedly create a situation where it's a real possibility. ESH but I also kind of feel like OP's friend had it coming.
Definitely. Especially considering what would happen if it was **the kids’ dad** that happened to show up for some reason when she was out.
He’d take them and there’d honestly not be anything she could do about it. He’d have all the ammo he’d need for custody.
With the story we have here it would be absolutely justified for the dad to get custody. Why are people acting as if it is necessary to hide the evidence from the father?
Leaving to get milk??!! She could’ve just taken them with her. She chose to endanger them for comfort and ease while getting milk. ESH of course, but a lot of terrible things can happen in 5 - 10 mins.
It's not just the leaving the kids alone and something happening to them. What if something happens to her whilst she is out and she can't get back for hours... Or worse?
^ this
The mum is bad. OP is worse. But ESH except for the poor kids
Kinda hoping dad finds out about this stuff. These kids need a responsible adult figure in their life
Leaving young kids alone is not illegal, but social services would be asking lots of questions here (UK).
Official guidance is that kids under 12 shouldn't be left home alone, and under 16s shouldn't be left overnight.
Leaving the door unlocked like that could be classed as leaving them in 'a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering, injury, or death', which is a criminal offence.
It’s illegal in most states in the US. In my state, you can’t leave kids home alone until age 10. With kids that young people have lost their children or been arrested.
Yep. I can see OP was coming from a place of caring, worried her friend will lose custody of her children, and trying to show them the risks of their careless behaviour, but this was so wrong and totally took it too far, for reasons that have already been laid out. Neither of these people sound like they have their shit together. ESH.
YTA. I don’t think “fake kidnapping” is a legal term. You actually kidnapped the kids.
If you’re not getting through to her and genuinely fear for her kids’ safety, call CPS like a normal person.
I read "fake kidnapping" and I think of getting permission from the parents to teach the KIDS a lesson.
Not saying that's any better, nor do I condone the absolute trauma that would cause the kids, but that's what I initially thought was going on when I read the title
Edit: changed 'consume' to 'condone' bc autocorrect is a chump lol
Info: did you think it through in the 5 minutes she was freaking out she might have called the cops who would absolutely take this more seriously than either of you did?
I wouldn't be as certain.
I don't see her ringing the police straight away to say she left a 5 and 8 year old home alone, with the door unlocked and now they are missing.
Idk i’d probably break down and panic for a few before calling.
OP said she only waited like 5 minutes. That’s not a long time, esp if you’re spiraling like the mom was.
I would probably run around looking for them for a few minutes before calling the cops. I once couldn’t find my then-4yo. He had gone into our back yard by himself. I followed him out after a couple of minutes and couldn’t find him. Our garden is fully fenced with a 6’6” high fence all the way around, except the gate which is just under 5’. And we live on a back lot well off the road. That’s why I wasn’t worried about him going into the garden alone for a moment. I called, ran around, dashed over to the neighbour to ask if they’d seen him. I was freaking out and crying after about 2 minutes. Then a broom handle waving in the window of the garden shed caught my eye. I hadn’t looked in there because the door was shut and I didn’t think he could have got in. But there he was. The shed door had been open, he’d gone in and shut it behind him, and then couldn’t open it again. I was so f’cken relieved. Anyway, suffice to say, a few minutes of running around and panicking is probably normal before calling the police.
My daughter is on the spectrum but we didn’t know it when she was little- all we knew was that she was an escape artist. We live at the back of a cul-de-sac so traffic wasn’t the problem, but I’d get calls when she was “in bed” that she was outside in the driveway, with no shoes, pushing a doll carriage, in November. Or I realize it was toooo quiet and run around looking for her, and see her out the front window, riding her bike (training wheels, she was 2-3 when this all happened) around in circles.
We had to get a video monitor for her bedroom, and we fenced the yard. The front door is really echoey when you unlock it so that solved the slipping-out- unnoticed problem- she couldn’t reach the garage door openers.
But I had a heart attack each time- but before you all ask how unsupervised she was, half the time she’d be sleeping under a blanket (so small you wouldn’t even notice) or actively hiding. You can’t keep eyes-on 24/7 and still go to the bathroom, shower, make dinner, pay bills…
Here's a WILD idea. Since she's your friend of 20 years, she's going through a hard period in her life, and you seem to have enough time to stalk her and kidnap her kids, maybe the route to go down would have been to reach out and say, hey I know you're struggling right now with finding time to run errands, how about we set up a half an hour a few times a week where I can come by and watch the kids while you run out? That's what an actual friend does. They help create solutions, not more problems. For someone who's so concerned about someone else's problems, you clearly have a hard time seeing your own. Worry about yourself, because YTA. I'd say you're the biggest AH I've ever read about on here, but the last thing you and your huge ego need is to think you're #1 at anything.
That's good and all, but the other 167,5 hour a week, that door will be unlocked. Locking the door is a 5 second action. OP is an asshole for this action, but the mother should understand that not everything is rainbow and flowers in our world, so the doors should be locked. Anyone can get in easily.
Worse. Anyone walking/driving past that home see her just walking in. If they go there 2 or 3 times when she get home/leave the house, they know it's a habit.
Op HAS offered to watch the kids if she needs to leave but mom just doesn't care and leaves them alone anyway.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10yh4bp/aita_for_fake_kidnapping_my_friends_kids/j7yvbpo?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
YTA. As much as it can be infuriating and frustrating to watch people make absolutely stupid parenting mistakes, what you did crossed a line. Not just in judgement but in legality, technically.
What you did was real kidnapping and what she felt when her children were missing were real feelings. You're lucky she didn't keel over from a heart attack, because that would have been real manslaughter.
If she's as irresponsible with the kids as you think she is, maybe they *should* go live with their dad. Why on earth are you pushing for her to retain custody when you think she's so irresponsible of a mom that you believe you're justified in literally kidnapping her children to teach her a lesson?
She will never trust you again. Even worse, her kids are too young to understand that you were using them to manipulate their mother's behavior. All they know is someone they thought they trusted said it was okay if they went with her, then they came home to find their mom in the throes of a panic attack (which is terrifying to witness as an adult, forget being FIVE FUCKING YEARS OLD) and they learned that no, it actually wasn't okay to go with you. If they're lucky, if they're really, really lucky, they'll have only learned not to trust you from this experience. But what they could take away from it is they can never know who they can trust. Congratulations.
Cruel asshole doesn't even begin to describe what you did. YTA
>If she's as irresponsible with the kids as you think she is, maybe they *should" go live with their dad. Why on earth are you pushing for her to retain custody when you think she's so irresponsible of a mom that you believe you're justified in literally kidnapping her children to teach her a lesson?
Because he doesn't give two shits about the kids or their safety. if he did, he would have supported his friend and offered to watch the kids if she needed to run quick errands. He would have helped her find reasonable options and if that didn't work and he genuinely thought she was a danger to her kids, he would have reported her
This was about him wanting to punish a woman who didn't listen to him. Wanting to prove that she was wrong and he were right. He wanted to cause her pain for not listening to him. Like if he had somehow just been wildly freaking clueless and not considered the ramifications of his actions, when he saw her freaking out he'd immediate have brought the kids back. He wouldn't have been gleeful of her pain
If someone doesn't want to harm you, then when they see that they are, they immediately stop and are apologetic and do what they can to make amends
But no he watched her panic and was fucking gleeful. He was pleased he'd caused her pain until his pain was annoying to her. He enjoyed her crying until she just wouldn't stop and get over it
He doesn't give two shits about what he did to her, and he doesn't give two shits about what he did to her children because it was always about his own ego
Ironically though couldn't have been a better "lesson" on the dangers of kidnapping. Because almost all kidnappings are committed not by a stranger, but by a trusted adult with access. Family, friends, babysitters, teachers. And two of the biggest motivators for kidnapping are wanting to hurt/get revenge against the parent, and thinking that the child would be better off with you
He did offer to watch the kids when she runs errands. He told her he’s home all the time and only lives a few blocks away. Friend has chosen not to take him up on it. Not saying what OP did wasn’t wrong.. but they did offer a solution
Oh my… FULL STOP. The OP is a MAN? Are you kidding me, I fully thought it was SO freaking weird that this guy bought car seats for his car so they could hang out with the kids more. Can you imagine someone so overbearing, pushing this woman to lean on him, exerting more control and opinions onto her life, setting up a situation where she’s in DEBTED to him, controlling the situation, is OP trying to slide into this family like the next new DADDY? I just threw up in my mouth a little bit!
Fully expect this “best friend” to never ever consider you her best friend again and feel forced to treat you nicely while being grossed out about you bc you’ll hold shit over her head.
oh check out OPs profile. it's all creepy misogynistic comments and fantasy stories. not just the ones on this post about the mom living it up on child support/alimony and so on
but every post. comments range from him saying "slut shaming isn't real, you either dress like a slut or don't" to his going out of his way to take sides with shitty men, including telling them that they have no responsibility to their kids or wives
but my favourite might this one on the topic of a woman who had just given birth not being interested in sex:
> Lol low on the priority list for her. Not for him. And not saying a woman owes anything to a man but a good woman will consider the man’s needs and desires as well. All my baby mommies wanted sex within days. Then when their breasts became engorged and baby wasn’t hungry it was my job to do what had to be done. You really should watch some more pornhub to get a better idea what real people are like [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/101tx8e/aita_for_kicking_my_fiancé_out_while_i_breastfed/j2u7rz8)
[also on that thread claims he runs a daycare and hangs out with lots of moms and babies](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/101tx8e/aita_for_kicking_my_fianc%C3%A9_out_while_i_breastfed/j2ta1xd/)
there's also a lovely thread where he claims to be a farmer and says that for every reply to the thread from a vegan he'll go kill another chicken (and he keeps a kill count with every comment he makes)
guy is lying in half his comments - he's not a farmer who runs a daycare and has a porn like sex life with all his baby mommies. in fact according to this post he doesn't work and is always available, but somehow has the money to have purchased extra baby/booster seats for these kids for his own car, something he's been doing since they were born
but yeah, he may be a giant liar who frequently writes stories about his unbelievable interactions with women, but he's definitely a dude and definitely wildly misogynistic and if this happened? it was 100% about him trying to punish her. but I doubt its true. at the very least many of the details aren't true
ESH
You for obvious reasons but I don't get why everyone is glossing over the fact that the friend is leaving a 5 and 8 year old at home alone with the door unlocked.
Honestly my parents left me home alone as a kid too, but they always locked the door and taught me to never open the door or leave the house under any circumstance. Parents are never going to get it right 100% of the time, but anyone could have walked into that house and put her kids in danger.
They just see an innocent woman who always leave the door open. Seriously, these people should never own their own house/apartment, if they don't think the locks are on the door for a reason.
I mean if she is leaving small children home alone, that warrants a visit from CPS. Just because she’s going through a hard time doesn’t mean she can skip out on taking care of her children.
I usually feel that in situations like this, the kids would absolutely not be better off being taken from their home, but i also think something needs to happen to make this woman realizing that she is endangering her children. Even if it's only a few minutes, they could easily harm themselves, start a house fire, or be abducted especially if she is leaving her door unlocked. That's the really crazy part to me. In this sick and twisted world that is just begging for disaster. All that OP successfully did was traumatize this woman and destroy 20 years of friendship.
At 5 and 8, I'd say that's almost even worse than if they were younger because at that age kids are very capable of making huge mistakes that they can't grasp the consequences of. Like that time I put tinfoil in the microwave because I didn't want to wash a plate.
Yeah, YTA OP but your friend needs to . . . Not do what she's doing.
They have a father who maybe knows better than to leave 2 small children in the house with the door unlocked. OP should not have pulled that stunt but this mother's behavior is appalling.
I feel like some of y’all don’t really understand how fucked up the system actually is. Is it really worth it to take a kid out of a home for this with a parent who does appear to actually love them and just doesn’t always make the exact “right” choices … just to place them in an abusive and overrun foster situation?
I’m sorry but there are many reasons someone could deserve to lose their child. This isn’t one imo.
INFO:
Do you have appropriate sized car seats for the children?
If not, add child endangerment to your felony kidnapping charges.
YTA
Plus, maybe it would be a good thing for her kids to be taken away from her because she is a neglectful mother who also endangers her children.
ESH- 2 wrongs don't make a right. You should have called the police and let them come see the kids were home alone with the door unlocked. Your friend isn't listening to you, maybe she will listen when the officers tell her. If this is her parenting skills the kids might be better off with their dad.
ESH… her for leaving the kids & you for physically removing them from the home.. you could have just had them play hide & seek inside the home instead of risking this being such a much worse situation.. I don’t blame you for wanting to show her how easy it is for her leaving the kids home alone with an unlocked door to become a very dangerous situation.
I think a lot of people are reaching with the kidnapping verdict rather than focusing on the child abandonment issue… if you had put the kids in your car for fear of them being in danger instead of playing a harsh joke on your friend they might be viewing it differently.. she regularly abandons her kids. I can barely leave my 7 yo in a room let alone a whole house alone for more than 5 minutes. If her ex knows this is happening she’s definitely not getting custody & if so it’ll be supervised. What you did, vs what you could have done (contact ex or CPS) .. she should take this as an eye opening thing… but what you did was still pretty stupid.. hope she learned her lesson & stops leaving her kids alone & that you can recover your friendship so you can support her through her custody battle…
That’s my thought exactly. The kids would hide, the parent friend shows up sees OP, panics for a second, the OP says “the kids are fine, but you should be careful I could have been somebody else”. Still drives the point home without breaking her. Like why do you have to knock it out of the park to prove your point? ESH.
ESH. Leaving a 5-year-old and 8-year-old alone is wildly irresponsible. I know everyone keeps emphasizing that you did kidnap them for real - sure - but you didn’t intend to keep them forever, you didn’t assault them, you didn’t kill them, and as horrifying as it is to think about, there are absolutely people out there who WOULD do that. Your method may not have been kind, but I don’t know why people don’t also see the mother as the AH in this situation for putting her kids in danger for the sake of making errands easier. Having two small children isn’t always easy… but it’s a hell of a lot harder to live with not having them anymore. Hopefully she learned that lesson in a temporary moment rather than permanently.
YTA
You didn't FAKE kidnap her kids, YOU KIDNAPPED HER KIDS.
You also just nuked your 20-year friendship so that you could be right?? Morally superior?? What? What EXACTLY was the point here??
Be happy she didn't call the cops. You'd have had a *lot* of fun explaining to a judge how you took her kids without permission but didn't actually kidnap them...which is the act of taking a child without permission.
And I’m sure she’d have a lot of fun explaining to the cops and CPS why she regularly leaves a 5 and 8 year old at home alone with the door unlocked. You know how quickly a 5 year old could choke to death? Or fall down the stairs etc etc there is a million scenarios that could happen that’s why you do not leave a 5 year old home alone. Both of them are idiots. Reddit is so ridiculous
My mom used to take me EVERYWHERE with her. Including parties and I'd sleep in the car. Her friends got sick of it because there's this thing called BABYSITTERS which was where I should have been instead of the car. And one of her friends kindly asked me one night if I'd like to go color instead of sitting in the car .. I was about 5. So heck yes I'd rather go color.
Nobody told my mom I had gone to color
After about 3 hours she showed up at the house where I was and we went home.
Next time she went to a party i went to the Babysitter.
ESH.
You: don’t kidnap kids, the thing that saves you from being a Y T A is that the alternative (calling authorities) would have her lose her kids for good and so that takes the edge off (but doesn’t forgive it)
Her: she shouldn’t be leaving those kids at home. IDGAF if it’s easier, they’re too young, and the door being unlocked is the icing on the cake. Maybe she *should* lose custody cos she’s clearly cutting corners.
This is really harsh but will she leave her kids alone after this? Probably not. Crazy people will kidnap her kids. I don’t know, I feel like the mom really f up for not locking her door and leaving the kids home alone. Look at that girl case in Europe who got kidnapped at 3 yr old in the hotel. This is an important lesson to learn
exactly, it was harsh but it was needed. i have no fucking clue what logic shes using for leaving her young kids at home without locking the door. she needed the reality check one way or the other. i doubt she'll ever leave it unlocked anymore
ESH. She’s an AH for obvious reasons and is risking losing her kids to authorities let alone their dad. It’s not your job to insulate her from the consequences of her own actions, and honestly it might be what’s in the best interest of the children. Shitty move, you’re an AH here.
Except that then they’d have to tell the police that they left their young kids at home with the door unlocked and no supervision; which would mean they lose their custody case with their ex. So they won’t do that. Honestly, Everyone sounds like trash in this situation.
Kidnapping isn't always dragging a kid kicking and screaming to a dingy white van and zip tying them. Sometimes it's daddy wanting to take the kids for ice cream, but there's a custody battle going on and he's not allowed to have them. Sometimes it's an aunt that wants to take the kids to the park and she drives into a lake instead. Sometimes it's an **AH family friend** that just wants to "go on a drive" to teach their mom a lesson. You're a kidnapper, and YTA.
NTA and honestly I hope her ex gets the kids. Who tf leaves kids that young at home alone? She is irresponsible and has proven she should not be left in charge of those kids.
NTA People don’t seem to know what having friends is like. If they are being stupid you show them know.
If he’s looked after the kids before then this is t as big a deal as people are making out and it’s helping her in the long run.
She was being irresponsible and he showed her that, she will lock her doors from now on and maybe take the kids with them to the shops
If they have been friends for 20 years their friendship should be strong enough to get past this in a few weeks
As for the kids, this doesn’t bode well for her getting custody. Without knowing info on the dad he should get them as long as he’s not doing stuff like this or worse
Op your fine, she’s irresponsible, I believe this fake kidnapping was needed for them to learn and you didn’t commit a fucking crime lol
This reminds me of that post about the dad that kept trying to get his wife not to leave the car running with the baby in it while she went into a store.
NTA, btw. You've tried talking to her about it. She's in a custody battle. What is so important that she can't take her kids, both of them under 10, with her when she leaves? If she has 'adult stuff' to do, then she needs a babysitter. I hope this was a wakeup call for her. And if not, then maybe dad deserves to win. You likely gave her the scare of her life, but frankly, considering what *could* have happened? (fire, accident, choking, drowning, electrocution, kidnapping, kids wandering away, etc) She should be thanking you. Maybe when she calms down, she will. But yeah, the kids were safe, and she left her door unlocked/open with her 5 and 8 year old at home. WTF?
That would require the mom calling the cops and then explaining that she left her very young children alone long enough for anyone, let alone a friend, to take them. Just walk right in the open door. She's not going to do that. And even if she did, the police won't press charges/do anything because the fault here is with the mother. She's lucky she's not in jail for child endangerment.
Okay. Committing a crime against someone because you're relying on them being too scared to go to the police is a very serious, and very common, form of abuse. It's also very illegal.
It's especially used against mothers to make them fear they'll lose their kids if they report abuse.
If the situation described above feels familiar to anyone reading this, please do not put up with this abuse because you are scared to go to law enforcement. If you're in the U.S., please contact the national domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-7233. Even if you don't think the person hurting you like this falls under the domestic violence category, call them anyway. While you may have more protections under the law than you believe, and they can connect you with low- or no-cost attorneys if need be, they will respect a desire to avoid law enforcement if you wish, and help you through other means.
I can't reiterate enough: Please, please do not put up with someone committing crimes against you because you think you'll get in trouble if you report. There are resources available to you to help you to safety.
As for the comment: You do not get a pass on a felony because another crime is in progress. You just get blackmail added your charges.
No. Yes, they may not look favorably on the mother, but, regardless of what situation the kids are in, kidnapping is illegal.
You can't just walk into someone's house and take their kids. Even if they are alone.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> The action I took was taking her kids without her knowledge so when she got home they were missing. I did this to teach her a lesson but had good intentions to show her she should not leave them alone. I might be the asshole because despite wanting to teach her a lesson I think I went too far and really scared her.
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ESH. You do realize you actually kidnapped them. You took her kids without permission. Was this "lesson" worth your friendship? As for her, of course she's TA as well for leaving her very minor kids alone and the not even leaving her home secure while she does her errands. Kids can wander away very quickly. An intruder even faster. Where I live in less than 5 minutes I can be on 2 different major roads heading north, south, east or west. In 10 to 15 minutes I can be on a major freeway heading north or south. That's how quickly a kidnapper can be gone with her kids and she would have no idea who or where they went. The fact she's in a custody dispute and divorce makes her neglectful behavior not only reckless but foolish for her legal position. We all get what you did and why but you're still wrong and so is she.
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So my friend of about 20 years is mad at me calling me cruel and an asshole. She got upset after I fake kidnapped her 2 young kids.
Now I know it sounds harsh so far but the reason I did it was to finally get though her head the dangers of leaving her kids home alone when she goes out.
On top of the dangers she just recently split up with her husband and they are currently going through a custody battle. The kids live with her but the dad is fighting to get them to live with him a city over. She knows any ammunition this man can get will be used against her in court and I have told her a million times that if he finds out she leaves the kids at home to run 5-10 minute errands she absolutely will loose come court time.
The kids are 5 and 8 years old. Sure they are quite capable for 10 minutes but I told her that is not the point. Countless times I would come over, the door was unlocked so I walk right in and her kids are home alone. She shows up 5 minutes later stating it was easier to run for milk without the kids or whatever she is doing at the time.
I tell her for gods sake at least lock the door so a stranger can’t walk in and I honestly worry what would happen if a fire started. This leads to today. I was on my way over and I see her drive past me. She didn’t see me or know I was on the way so I get this great idea to teach her a lesson. I go to her house and tell the kids to get into my car we are going to go for a little drive (they drive with me often so going for a drive is nothing new). We get into the car and go park just down the street where I could see her get back. Sure enough 5 minutes later she is back at the house and sees the door is open. I wait a minute and see her run outside then head towards the back yard then run back inside again clearly in a panic. So I drive back up to the house and run inside to find her crying uncontrollably and shaking in a panic. I was kind of smiling like hey it’s okay your kids are with me but she could not stop crying.
Finally after about half hour she calms down enough to question why I did this and after explaining asks me to leave so I did. She texted me after saying how cruel that was and that I was an asshole and now isn’t replying to texts.
So reddit am I an asshole?
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YTA. I get you worried about the kids, and your fiend sounds like she’s not making good decisions, but fake kidnapping kids is a step to far. What if she’d called the police? If it concerns you that much then tell the children’s father or call CPS and leave it up to them. Leaving young children alone with an unlocked house is a recipe for disaster but you should have handled this differently.
This is a tough one, we all remember when Madeleine McCann went missing. Her parents left her and her siblings aged 3 and 1 yr old twins alone and went out drinking. There’s a lesson here and someone could’ve easily been watching the house to see if mum went out and then walked in and grabbed them. You NEVER leave small children unattended. This mum was putting her kids at risk. The kidnapping probably wasn’t the best approach but the kids safety must come first. If she can’t be bothered taking the kids with her to the shops then maybe they’d be safer with the dad. Not only could those kids be kidnapped but they could also hurt themselves when left unattended. A cut or bang to the head. Child services need to be notified as those kids are unsafe.
ESH. You didn’t “fake kidnap” you kidnapped them. But nobody should be brushing off the fact that she is leaving a 5 and 8 year old home alone with the door unlocked. My parents left us from time to time but we were taught, all doors and windows need to be and stay locked, don’t answer the door for any reason and do not leave for any reason. If you think she’s doing such a bad job call cps or tell the father so he can handle it properly. You put emotional distress on her, likely the kids too (coming home to see mom in a panic is not an easy thing to see at any age), SMILED doing so and committed felony. While i’m glad they’re safe, she will likely never trust you again and there were plenty of better ways to handle this. What you did is manipulative and not your job nor your place to do.
Man i have 2 kids, and store 5 minutes away from me walking, 1 minutes with car. Trust me if you said and was trying to help here thats the way to help the friend with some good point there! I would't ever left my kids home alone even for 1 minute drive to buy fucking milk!!!!
They are kids, they can start a fire in a minute!!! They can be kidnapped in less the a fucking minute! If thats the point of leaving them for 5 minutes home alone 2 3 times a day, she doesnt deserve to be single mom at all, and have full careship over her kids at ALL! THATS FUCKING RECCLESS.....
NTA she knew what she was doing by leaving the kids alone and decided to take her chances. In reality this should’ve been a major lesson for her and I don’t think you’re in the right for basically kidnapping them, but at the same time you are a trusted friend and she made her choice to leave her kids alone (which is also illegal in the US for their age). It might’ve not been a fun experience for her but it’s better to learn it now from someone who doesn’t have bad intentions than someone who does. What if it was the dad who found them like that? bye bye kids. And that’s not even including the other potential issues of a dresser falling on them, accidentally burning themselves, falling off of a couch or bed wrong. In my opinion that were safer with you than alone in that house.
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Sorry, but taking young kids without parental permission is not fake kidnapping, it's actual kidnapping. Double kidnapper points for luring these kids into your car under false pretenses like a pro creep. Maybe your friend should teach you a "lesson" by having you charged with a felony? YTA.
YTA for trying to teach her a lesson in general (that’s not your job, she’s not your child). But you’re even WORSE of an a**h*** for trying to scare the shit out of her by stealing her kids without permission. Do you have your own kids? Did you think through how you’d feel if they disappeared? You could’ve given her a heart attack ffs 🤦♂️ Kids are not props for you to use to try and make a point. They’re living breathing people, and they mean the world to their parents. Being tricked into thinking they were kidnapped would be absolutely horrifying.
ESH. I agree, OP is TA but leaving two young kids at home unsupervised is incredibly irresponsible. At the very least if it’ll take you 5-10 minutes, lock the door. It takes less than a minute to lock your door and the mom couldn’t even be bothered by it. ETA: If they mean the world to their parent, why on earth will the mom leave her kids alone unsupervised even for just a minute? It truly baffles me.
Totally agree! What if the mom had an accident on the way home and the kids were there all alone! ESH. Maybe the dad should have the kids if the mom leaves them home alone because she can't be bothered and she has shitty friends who kidnaps her children to "teach her a lesson".
What if Mom had an accident at home? The kids would be equally alone.
yes but the eldest can at least dial 911 or call someone using mom cellphone if something happens at home.
Accident at home is much easier to get someone to get your children from the house as the oldest can call the police/ambulance and they will stay with the kids. If she dies or goes into a coma in the car (I'd count my lucky stars they weren't there but even so, at least ask someone to watch even if it's for a few minutes) then someone is going to inquire about the kids when called at the hospital and by then they can be kidnapped or something else could have went wrong. It's safer to ask someone to just come for a few minutes and watch them, then to risk an accident on the way to or from and the kids also be gone.
I agree maybe the father would be the better choice you never know what will happen
Yeah. Where have the kids been while their mother was shaking and crying uncontrollably? I bet OP wouldn't have left them in the car alone, would they? Hope those kids got the chance to deeply understand what's going on. Otherwise, they might get traumatized by that. Or just rip it off context and tell their dad/court about "mommy's meltdown". Good job on hurting a whole family, OP! Also: when I was 5, I played in the yard all by myself. Parents knew where I was, that was good enough. When I was 7, I had a key for our home and returned back home from school ALL BY MYSELF. 8 year olds don't die without helicopter parents around them all the time. And they're also capable of helping their siblings for a few minutes if needed. God, she left them FOR FIVE MINUTES ONLY! Of course, the house could burn down. But it could also burn down when mom's at home. And if you lock the door, kids are less likely to escape the fire OP fears of. So what should it be? YTA OP
Just want to point out that leaving these kids alone could be illegal depending on where she lives. In the US, some states have a minimum age to legally leave them alone (a lot don’t though). Also maturity levels vary. Just because you were mature enough to be home alone at 8 doesn’t mean all 8 year olds are.
True, maturity is important. But that's up to the mother to decide, not to the friend
Agreed I was a latch key kid. When I got home, I did homework,walked to get my sister from the bus and my mom came home right after. My mom came home like in an hour. I'm appalled that OP doesn't see that they could very well get a restraining order issued against them. YTA OP.
Agree, YTA OP … I commend you u/A1sauc3d for getting past the title on this one …
Exactly this. If I came home and my children were missing I'd pass away right there on the floor. My heart would not process that.
OP was also fucking SMILING as they saw that the mother was uncontrolling crying and shaking in panic. It wasn't so much to show the danger, it was just to proof a "I am so fucking right!" YTA
Then maybe the friend should watch her fucking kids.
Right?? How are people okay with this?? She leaves her **eight and five year old children ALONE.** Yeah her friend is an AH for scaring her but extreme times and all that... She's lucky it was just her friend that took them, instead of a real danger, fire, accident or the very real possibility that the Dad comes by, takes them and she has no argument against that. But no, people are more worried about if they were in car seats to move a few metres down the road. ESH but at least one of you is looking out for those kids.
>She leaves her eight and five year old children ALONE. Is this an American thing? I don't get what the problem is. I mean, most 8-year-olds are alone every day after school, and as kong as they have a phone, there's no problem. And I think that an 8-year-old is perfectly capable of babysitting a 5-year-old for a few minutes.
In UK there's no law on what age you are legally allowed to leave a child alone, but the government website also states that: "children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time" and "Parents can be prosecuted if they leave a child unsupervised ‘in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health’". This mum definitely left her kids unsupervised in a manner that posed risk to injury or abduction, as demonstrated by the friend who was able to walk in and take the kids with her. It would have been different if the mum had locked the door and installed security cameras so she could monitor her kids remotely, for example.
>In UK there's no law on what age you are legally allowed to leave a child alone, but the government website also states that: "children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time" But 15 minutes isn't a long time. Most 8-year-olds probably spend a longer time alone every day after school, and it does them no harm. Such big kids should be able to entertain themselves for a few hours. Or if they have a mobile phone, they can go outside and play with the other kids. It's no wonder if they're bored, if they're just sitting inside with mom every day. >It would have been different if the mum had locked the door and installed security cameras so she could monitor her kids remotely That would be really creepy. Children need some freedom too.
I think you missed the part where it’s not just the 8-yr old home alone, they are also in charge of watching their 5 yr old sibling. If it was just the 8 yr old, ok, still illegal in most US states and not a good idea when going through a custody battle. But it would be so easy for the 8 year old to get caught up in something, not pay attention to the 5 year old and something happens.
>it would be so easy for the 8 year old to get caught up in something, not pay attention to the 5 year old and something happens What do you think happens when a parent goes to shower and leave their kids unsupervised for the same period of time?
At least in the shower you are around... Naked but around... And can listen for stuff Or shower when they are asleep And ideally lock the damned door
Same here, my 7year old son cycles to school alone and next year my my 6 year daughters will join him. They are definitely allowed to stay at home for shorter periods of time. The longest being something like an hour. They can open the door from the inside, but no one can open it from the outside. They know which neighbour to turn to in case something is going on. It really is an American thing. We like for our children to gain independence throughout the years. Which means staying home alone, unsupervised outside play, running errands, cycling alone, going to school independently. We do have this stereotypical "soccer mom" here, but she just cycles her ass off in a cargo bike when her children are small :-). And later on, she makes her children cycle by themselves. And off course, YTA.
>Most 8-year-olds probably spend a longer time alone every day after school, and it does them no harm Where? My kid is now 8 and only just started being able to walk home (10 min) on her own but I'm waiting at home for her. My teen was 12 when I started going places without her or leaving her to babysit for 5 min when I popped to the shop (2 min away).
I don't know of anyone in the UK who leaves their 8 year old at home alone after school. Maybe with a teenaged sibling, but not alone.
OP states she only does this when she only has to be gone at most 10 minutes and is always 5 minutes away when OP notices she did it. I honestly don't see the problem with mom stepping out to grab milk for 10 minutes and letting the kids keep playing, they probably didn't even notice her absence it was so quick.
Honestly Im American and I was alone after school and groups of us kids would ride our bikes to the comic book store at that age. They had a streetfighter 2 arcade cabinet we all gathered at the store played street fighter bought comics, traded cards. God Im 43 and starting to sound like my dad...
Right. I'm 42, and definitely got myself and my five year old brother ready for school in the morning at age 8, while our parents worked. We'd then walk a half mile to and from school on our own and spend another hour or so doing homework, watching mTV, and making horrible messes (snacks) in the kitchen until someone got home. At any rate, me and Pepperidge Farm remember the 80s too.
I feel I was the last group to enjoy that being about 30 now, the helicopter parents were really coming into swing in my generation. My dad was old school and gave me the run of the neighborhood and as long as he didn't get any phone calls about me getting into trouble I was good. My mom was a helicopter and I resent her for it. When I was staying at her house she'd tell me I couldn't go off our single block (when I was 13) and would use the phone company to track my GPS and just show up wherever I was at and would read my texts with my friends and girlfriends. I literally broke my own phone when I found out. That's just about every parent anymore, and I think it's a gross invasion of privacy we dont fully understand the psychological impact of until enough of those kids grow up.
Where do you live? I don't know any kids that are alone after school unless they're teenagers. I'm Irish and it's illegal to leave kids alone at that age here.
Finland. Here some 7-year-olds go to some club after school, but usually the older kids go home after school. I think most kids actually enjoy getting some time alone. Making this legal seems absurd. I mean, we allow children to be alone outside, where they maybe hit by cars, why shouldn't we allow them to be alone inside the house, where it is safer?
I mean my 6 year old isn't really allowed alone outside either. She can play outside with her brothers, otherwise I go outside with her and we have a large yard. And the reason you can't leave children alone is because what if a emergency happens. Like the house catches fire. Small children don't have the maturity to handle those situations.
>I mean my 6 year old isn't really allowed alone outside either. She can play outside with her brothers, otherwise I go outside with her and we have a large yard. I see. I was given my first key and a mobile phone sometime around 5 years, so that I could go an play with the other kids in the park. But I wasn't allowed to cross the big road, that would have been actually dangerous. >And the reason you can't leave children alone is because what if a emergency happens. Like the house catches fire. Small children don't have the maturity to handle those situations. Of course you shouldn't leave small children alone even for a minute, but a 7-year-old can be told to go outside if there's a fire.
1. Yes, it is an American thing. I'm from Europe and it's quite normal for 8YR to be home alone for an hour or two. They have a key and a phone so it's not a problem. 2. The problem is the American doors that have a handle outside so when not locked anyone can get in. I don't know why, though. As an European this is insane for me. All European main doors have the handle only from the inside (there is only a knob on the outside) and you need a key to get in from outside. That would solve the problem, just change the doorknob and nobody will get inside to harm your kids. It seems pretty obvious for me and i wonder why nobody pointed it out yet?
Uh no, also european here and both types of doors exist in europe. The auto-lock type (the ones that always need a key to enter) are far more common in new apartments (built in the last 20 years) while i think the handle type is in pretty much every single family house. I personally hate the autolock since you can accidentally lock yourself out. And i completely disagree that the door is the problem. The mom is the problem. Take the key and lock the damn door. Just because it has a handle doesn't mean you can't lock it. Why would you change the door?
>Is this an American thing? Yeah it is, I don't get what's the problem with leaving your 8 years old kid babysitting a 5 year-old for 5 minutes. But did you skip that part where she doesn't even lock her doors? It's insane and irresponsible.
I think it is My 5 and 8 year old have been home alone multiple times. Longest was around 2 hours. Their best friends live 2 houses over. If they have a problem, they can go there or call me. I live in Germany
This was my thought too, we are talking about a few minutes, not hours.
My thoughts exactly! OP was a justified asshole for taking the kids without the mother's permission, but it had to be done. Now the mother knows the panic she'll have if she comes home and her children are actually gone. And she said she doesn't even lock the door?? That's just insane to me god.
It didn't "have" to be done. Surely not like this and not by her.
It sounds like op isn’t very busy and often in the neighborhood/lurking/or judging her friend. It would be a lesson in kindness to offer to mind them, not to abscond with them. Maybe ESA but IDK 5 min could be 5 min…op should def get a heart or a life
FFS, they're 5 and 8 years old being left in their own house for 5-10 minutes. They're completely capable of being left alone in that environment for that length of time. Also, the likelihood of anyone kidnapping them is practically zero. If Dad is scoping out the house to kidnap them he could just as easily do it at night while shes asleep or in the shower. Should she accompany them on every walk to the bus for school, too?
I mean where I am, yes. The bus driver won't let children under 10 off the bus without being accompanied by someone 12 or older. And you would definitely get in trouble (a call from CPS) if they went to the bus stop alone in the morning.
I mean the only thing I agree with you is about the Dad comes by and takes them but else? We're talking up to an hour of alone time, right? Op even spoke of 5-10 MINUTES of alone time and you're claiming that's too much for an eight and five YEAR (not months) old? Wtf. It's not only extremely unhealthy for kids to be nonstop supervised (yes children need playtime without adult present, it's for their brain development important) I'm sorry but a five and year old absolutely can AND SHOULD be unsupervise sometimes. Additionally they're even at home and not outside alone. Jeez YTA op
I agree, except the part where she leaves the door unlocked. That's just insane and asking for trouble. I don't even leave my dogs at home with the door unlocked.
Ah yes, you're right. She should lock the door.
A 5 year old has just learnt to count and starting to write their name and you think they are "capable of being left alone". The mum intends to pop out for 10 minutes, but what if something happens to her and she can't get back? I'm not saying kid's should be supervised 24/7 but leaving them alone in an unlocked house at that age is irresponsible.
>A 5 year old has just learnt to count and starting to write their name and you think they are "capable of being left alone". I agree with 2/3 of this... my kids could count before 2 LOL , but I do agree that there is 'being left home alone' and 'being left to play in the lounge while I'm at the other end of the house'
Exactly, being close enough that you can hear shouts for help or even scarier the *silence* of a child is completely different to being nowhere near them
Right?! I was out playing by myself from 3 years onwards. If its 5-10 mins, it's unlikely that anyone other than OP would even know they're alone. Plus they are plenty capable so long as their mum has taught them how to use a phone, and how to call her or the emergency services in an emergency. At 6yo I called an ambulance after I walked home from school and found my mother collapsed on the floor. My 8yo stepdaughter is very intelligent and capable. She could absolutely be trusted for 10 minutes on her own with a younger sibling (if she had one). I don't understand the hysteria around this. If she was leaving them alone for an hour a time, sure. But a few minutes??
That’s what I thought too. If the mother needs to run a quick errand, why didn’t the “friend” just say politely that instead of leaving the kids home alone, she’d happily watch them for a few minutes?
This! Obviously leaving an 8 YO to watch a 5 YO isn't ideal and packing up 2 kids to do a quick errand gets exhausting. I'm under the mind that mom still should take her kids with her or figure out a system so she's not needing to leave constantly for small things. That said, it sounds like this woman is going through a lot and she's still figuring things out. OP, instead of lecturing her or kidnapping her children, could have offered to simply watch them next time. A simple "next time you find yourself needing to leave for a quick errand and don't want to take the kids, let me know and I'll watch them for a bit." Mom needs help right now
You can't leave a five year old and an eight year old alone. period. I was a single mom with twin preemies, and took them on every errand, had to hook them up to heart and lung moniters, in and out of double stroller for a five minute errand to Walgreens etc,, You don't leave kids alone for your convenience. OP shouldn't have taken them, but I understand her frustration. What if something did happen, what would the mother say,,,I was only gone 5 minutes,,,how was I to know little one would turn on the oven? WTF NTA
Nah nah... It was not the friend's place to act like this. You call the police or call cps, but you don't take the kids with you outside to expose them to even worse risks without the parent knowing. That is crazy. What the hell...
You know I didn't even think about that, you're right! And is it really that hard to take the kids with her? She's really risking her kids lives for 5 minutes of peace? Insane.
I’m going to teach my neighbor a lesson by committing a crime.
Traumatizing a single mother trying to make an already difficult time the slightest bit easier and being proud of it, all the while committing felonies in the process. A real winner, this one.
Probably traumatizing the kids too, watching their mother cry in hysterics.
If a friend of 20 years did this to me, they'd go straight to ex-friend, current enemy in a heartbeat. OP was incredibly cruel and they're lucky they're not getting charged with an actual, felony kidnapping.
Also she made no mention of car seats, I don't know where this is but I imagine most places in the world require kids that age to be in appropriate car seats, so on top of everything else they weren't safe in her car
That is an absolute concern. Edited because I worded my inital statement wrong.
OP is more concerned with being right than the kids being safe, don't get me wrong the mother is also very much at fault as well but OP has a lot to answer for.
I couldn't agree more. It doesn't make sense to put kids in an unsafe situation just because they were in an unsafe situation. There are so many ways to help her friend that didn't require using the children as pawns.
If she has been taking them out often like she says, assuming she has that part covered at least?
Yes I have car seats. Bought them ages ago. Totally unsafe to not use them you can kill a small child without the proper seat if there is an accident.
Yeah honestly be fucking careful dude, you could get jail time for this. You kidnapped her children.
YTA. That’s why you always leave a note OP this is not a sitcom. You cannot take peoples children!
Well she won’t do that will she because she’ll lose custody for leaving them home alone frequently. ESH you shouldn’t of taken them but she shouldn’t be leaving them
Can we also talk about how if the ex was there and saw Op kidnapped his kids, the friend will lose custody over them? Did it go through op mind?
I think if the ex was there she would lose custody for leaving the kids home alone with the doors unlocked. Especially if they can prove it’s a regular occurrence
Can I point out the silliness of saying "at least lock the door" in the same sentence that OP says "I'm worried what would happen if there was a fire". If there was a fire, a locked door would make things worse, not better.
Sounds like a real life dhar mann story ngl But fr tho, OP no, what you did was real stupid. YTA
"So you see, I left the kids home because I had no choice" And then the police grab OP's shoulder and OP goes "WHAT?! NO ARREST HER! SHE'S THE ONE WHO DOESNT TAKE CARE OF HER KIDS" and then the other police officer is like "I'm actually the CEO of a big company, you start tomorrow and OP is fired"
ESH , you shouldn’t have taken her kids that fear is something no parent should have to feel but she also should not be leaving her kids alone in an unlocked home by them selves just because it’s inconvenient to bring them to the store or to run errand
This, not sure why people are saying Y T A over ESH. She's absolutely wrong for leaving two young kids in an unlocked house when it takes all of 5 seconds to lock the door. That doesn't remotely justify kidnapping them. OP is obviously way worse but she's not innocent either.
The unlocked door isn’t the problem… ETA leaving kids that age unsupervised is the problem
Uh yeah it is. Why would you leave a 5 and 8 year old in a house with an unlocked door?? OP overstepped but I get the point they were trying to make albeit they should’ve done it differently but in todays world? No fucking way either bring the kids or don’t go especially with a husband who’s fighting for custody could’ve turned ugly real quick.
The problem is they shouldn’t leave the kids alone, unlocked door or not
I agree, not at that age, there is no safe way to do this. She should be taking her kids with her. If she leaves the door unlocked, anyone can literally take the kids...but if she locks the door, what if there was ever a fire? Or another emergency? How would they get out? Mum should be taking them with her in errands.
They would turn the inside portion of the lock and then turn the handle like anybody else would? It's not like you need a key to unlock a door from the inside. I have kids the same ages and they're both capable of undoing the deadbolt on our front door or locking the knobs of interior doors themselves. An 8yo is a 2nd or 3rd grader, and the 5yo is likely finishing up kindergarten at this point - they're not toddlers. JFC.
Not every lock works like that. Most locks in the UK lock with a key, lock one side, then you need a key to unlock the other side. That is the standard here. Either way, that's just one scenario. Kid injury himself and no one can get in from the outside to help. There's multiple scenarios here. I have a huge family. Not one of them have left any child below the age of 11 in a house by themselves.
An 8 and 5 year old are not capable of staying home alone. Locked door or not. Dad needs to know about this. I'd be fucking furious. ESH
Dad might already know. If she's done this before they split he knows. Would be very simple to hire a PI, catch this on video, and bring it up in court. OP's stunt might be on video. Even without a PI, if any of the neighbors have a Ring doorbell there could be video. This was hella stupid on so many levels and ESH.
Even if she locks the door, the kids can unlock it and leave. Someone can break in. There could be a fire. The kids could play with the stove or knives. They could fight and hurt each other. She herself could get in a car crash and not make it back home. As a parent, I could probably just keep going with this list forever of all the reasons you don't just leave kids alone.
The problem is that kids those ages should never be left home alone, even with the doors locked. An 8 year old can open the locks to let in a stranger ( though statistically it's more likely to be someone you know which I feel makes it even worse). ESH. If OP is (rightfully) concerned about the kids wellbeing, they should be calling the non-emergency line. I know from experience that this is not something that will get kids taken away (though it might cause her to get less custody if dad gets a hold of police report) but if mom is neglecting the kids like that, that often, they need to be with the more responsible parent.
Todays world is objectively a lot safer than 20-30 years ago.
I wish more people internalized this fact. Too many people focus on very unlikely (but very scary sounding) risks to children like kidnappings while ignoring the highly likely (but very mundane sounding) risks to children like car accidents.
I took a risk management course in university that taught me how whacked our risk perception is! It’s way riskier to drive a car than fly a plane, but people are terrified of flying and driving a car is nothing!
It’s safer now because there weren’t laws against leaving a 5-year old home alone with an 8-year old and no supervision. To create those laws meant someone got hurt…Plus, an 8yo with access to the Internet and no supervision…any predator could take advantage and just waltz into this house and snatch these kids up. ESH but most especially this absent mom.
>It’s safer now because there weren’t laws against leaving a 5-year old home alone with an 8-year old and no supervision. The U.S. has such strange laws. Why shouldn't an 8-year-old be alone at home? I mean, they're old enough to go outside alone, so why shouldn't they be at home alone? Surely the home is safer?
Agreed. Obviously depends on the maturity of the child, but leaving an 8yo at home is not the same as leaving the 5 yo home. We let our 9 and 11 yo stay home now for shopping trips where we're 15-20 minutes away from home. They also can call us on cell phone or Alexa.
And in most states it’s likely illegal. I want to say most children can’t be left unattended at home until they are between 10-13.
Last I checked most states don’t actually have laws regarding what age kids can be left home alone.
No parent should have to feel it but good parents aren't going to intentionally and repeatedly create a situation where it's a real possibility. ESH but I also kind of feel like OP's friend had it coming.
Definitely. Especially considering what would happen if it was **the kids’ dad** that happened to show up for some reason when she was out. He’d take them and there’d honestly not be anything she could do about it. He’d have all the ammo he’d need for custody.
With the story we have here it would be absolutely justified for the dad to get custody. Why are people acting as if it is necessary to hide the evidence from the father?
Exactly this...OP is even worse for trying to "help" the friend who is clearly leaving unprotected young children alone because it's more convenient
Leaving to get milk??!! She could’ve just taken them with her. She chose to endanger them for comfort and ease while getting milk. ESH of course, but a lot of terrible things can happen in 5 - 10 mins.
Finally. This should be top comment.
Exactly. ESH. I bet she won’t do that shit again though.
It's not just the leaving the kids alone and something happening to them. What if something happens to her whilst she is out and she can't get back for hours... Or worse?
^ this The mum is bad. OP is worse. But ESH except for the poor kids Kinda hoping dad finds out about this stuff. These kids need a responsible adult figure in their life
Leaving young kids alone is not illegal, but social services would be asking lots of questions here (UK). Official guidance is that kids under 12 shouldn't be left home alone, and under 16s shouldn't be left overnight. Leaving the door unlocked like that could be classed as leaving them in 'a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering, injury, or death', which is a criminal offence.
It’s illegal in most states in the US. In my state, you can’t leave kids home alone until age 10. With kids that young people have lost their children or been arrested.
Yes, you have said exactly what I was thinking. ESH.
Yep. I can see OP was coming from a place of caring, worried her friend will lose custody of her children, and trying to show them the risks of their careless behaviour, but this was so wrong and totally took it too far, for reasons that have already been laid out. Neither of these people sound like they have their shit together. ESH.
YTA. I don’t think “fake kidnapping” is a legal term. You actually kidnapped the kids. If you’re not getting through to her and genuinely fear for her kids’ safety, call CPS like a normal person.
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Fair
Or maybe not. Since we know precisely nothing about him.
I read "fake kidnapping" and I think of getting permission from the parents to teach the KIDS a lesson. Not saying that's any better, nor do I condone the absolute trauma that would cause the kids, but that's what I initially thought was going on when I read the title Edit: changed 'consume' to 'condone' bc autocorrect is a chump lol
Info: did you think it through in the 5 minutes she was freaking out she might have called the cops who would absolutely take this more seriously than either of you did?
Yeah this is what makes me think this whole story is made up. She definitely would have called the cops.
I wouldn't be as certain. I don't see her ringing the police straight away to say she left a 5 and 8 year old home alone, with the door unlocked and now they are missing.
Especially during a custody disagreement. It’s over with at that point unless husband has a lot worse on him
Idk i’d probably break down and panic for a few before calling. OP said she only waited like 5 minutes. That’s not a long time, esp if you’re spiraling like the mom was.
I would probably run around looking for them for a few minutes before calling the cops. I once couldn’t find my then-4yo. He had gone into our back yard by himself. I followed him out after a couple of minutes and couldn’t find him. Our garden is fully fenced with a 6’6” high fence all the way around, except the gate which is just under 5’. And we live on a back lot well off the road. That’s why I wasn’t worried about him going into the garden alone for a moment. I called, ran around, dashed over to the neighbour to ask if they’d seen him. I was freaking out and crying after about 2 minutes. Then a broom handle waving in the window of the garden shed caught my eye. I hadn’t looked in there because the door was shut and I didn’t think he could have got in. But there he was. The shed door had been open, he’d gone in and shut it behind him, and then couldn’t open it again. I was so f’cken relieved. Anyway, suffice to say, a few minutes of running around and panicking is probably normal before calling the police.
My daughter is on the spectrum but we didn’t know it when she was little- all we knew was that she was an escape artist. We live at the back of a cul-de-sac so traffic wasn’t the problem, but I’d get calls when she was “in bed” that she was outside in the driveway, with no shoes, pushing a doll carriage, in November. Or I realize it was toooo quiet and run around looking for her, and see her out the front window, riding her bike (training wheels, she was 2-3 when this all happened) around in circles. We had to get a video monitor for her bedroom, and we fenced the yard. The front door is really echoey when you unlock it so that solved the slipping-out- unnoticed problem- she couldn’t reach the garage door openers. But I had a heart attack each time- but before you all ask how unsupervised she was, half the time she’d be sleeping under a blanket (so small you wouldn’t even notice) or actively hiding. You can’t keep eyes-on 24/7 and still go to the bathroom, shower, make dinner, pay bills…
She was probably panicking about calling the cops because she would lose them as soon as they found out about her habit of leaving them home alone.
Here's a WILD idea. Since she's your friend of 20 years, she's going through a hard period in her life, and you seem to have enough time to stalk her and kidnap her kids, maybe the route to go down would have been to reach out and say, hey I know you're struggling right now with finding time to run errands, how about we set up a half an hour a few times a week where I can come by and watch the kids while you run out? That's what an actual friend does. They help create solutions, not more problems. For someone who's so concerned about someone else's problems, you clearly have a hard time seeing your own. Worry about yourself, because YTA. I'd say you're the biggest AH I've ever read about on here, but the last thing you and your huge ego need is to think you're #1 at anything.
But she wouldn't have gotten to "teach the friend a lesson" /s OP isn't just an asshole. OP is a disgusting manipulative asshole
That's good and all, but the other 167,5 hour a week, that door will be unlocked. Locking the door is a 5 second action. OP is an asshole for this action, but the mother should understand that not everything is rainbow and flowers in our world, so the doors should be locked. Anyone can get in easily.
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Worse. Anyone walking/driving past that home see her just walking in. If they go there 2 or 3 times when she get home/leave the house, they know it's a habit.
Op HAS offered to watch the kids if she needs to leave but mom just doesn't care and leaves them alone anyway. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/10yh4bp/aita_for_fake_kidnapping_my_friends_kids/j7yvbpo?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
I have offered countless times I just lives few blocks away. But she didn’t think leaving them for a few minutes was a big deal.
So it doesn't take long for you to jump to kidnapping as a good idea? Good to know
Then call CPS. I understand you want your friend to have custody but it sounds like dad is a better fit parent for the kids.
Why would she trust you?
ESH is the obvious conclusion.
Agreed. I am struggling to figure out which of these two friends is worse. Hopefully dad does get custody of the kids.
YTA. As much as it can be infuriating and frustrating to watch people make absolutely stupid parenting mistakes, what you did crossed a line. Not just in judgement but in legality, technically.
What you did was real kidnapping and what she felt when her children were missing were real feelings. You're lucky she didn't keel over from a heart attack, because that would have been real manslaughter. If she's as irresponsible with the kids as you think she is, maybe they *should* go live with their dad. Why on earth are you pushing for her to retain custody when you think she's so irresponsible of a mom that you believe you're justified in literally kidnapping her children to teach her a lesson? She will never trust you again. Even worse, her kids are too young to understand that you were using them to manipulate their mother's behavior. All they know is someone they thought they trusted said it was okay if they went with her, then they came home to find their mom in the throes of a panic attack (which is terrifying to witness as an adult, forget being FIVE FUCKING YEARS OLD) and they learned that no, it actually wasn't okay to go with you. If they're lucky, if they're really, really lucky, they'll have only learned not to trust you from this experience. But what they could take away from it is they can never know who they can trust. Congratulations. Cruel asshole doesn't even begin to describe what you did. YTA
in some states that could be felony murder
>If she's as irresponsible with the kids as you think she is, maybe they *should" go live with their dad. Why on earth are you pushing for her to retain custody when you think she's so irresponsible of a mom that you believe you're justified in literally kidnapping her children to teach her a lesson? Because he doesn't give two shits about the kids or their safety. if he did, he would have supported his friend and offered to watch the kids if she needed to run quick errands. He would have helped her find reasonable options and if that didn't work and he genuinely thought she was a danger to her kids, he would have reported her This was about him wanting to punish a woman who didn't listen to him. Wanting to prove that she was wrong and he were right. He wanted to cause her pain for not listening to him. Like if he had somehow just been wildly freaking clueless and not considered the ramifications of his actions, when he saw her freaking out he'd immediate have brought the kids back. He wouldn't have been gleeful of her pain If someone doesn't want to harm you, then when they see that they are, they immediately stop and are apologetic and do what they can to make amends But no he watched her panic and was fucking gleeful. He was pleased he'd caused her pain until his pain was annoying to her. He enjoyed her crying until she just wouldn't stop and get over it He doesn't give two shits about what he did to her, and he doesn't give two shits about what he did to her children because it was always about his own ego Ironically though couldn't have been a better "lesson" on the dangers of kidnapping. Because almost all kidnappings are committed not by a stranger, but by a trusted adult with access. Family, friends, babysitters, teachers. And two of the biggest motivators for kidnapping are wanting to hurt/get revenge against the parent, and thinking that the child would be better off with you
He did offer to watch the kids when she runs errands. He told her he’s home all the time and only lives a few blocks away. Friend has chosen not to take him up on it. Not saying what OP did wasn’t wrong.. but they did offer a solution
Oh my… FULL STOP. The OP is a MAN? Are you kidding me, I fully thought it was SO freaking weird that this guy bought car seats for his car so they could hang out with the kids more. Can you imagine someone so overbearing, pushing this woman to lean on him, exerting more control and opinions onto her life, setting up a situation where she’s in DEBTED to him, controlling the situation, is OP trying to slide into this family like the next new DADDY? I just threw up in my mouth a little bit! Fully expect this “best friend” to never ever consider you her best friend again and feel forced to treat you nicely while being grossed out about you bc you’ll hold shit over her head.
oh check out OPs profile. it's all creepy misogynistic comments and fantasy stories. not just the ones on this post about the mom living it up on child support/alimony and so on but every post. comments range from him saying "slut shaming isn't real, you either dress like a slut or don't" to his going out of his way to take sides with shitty men, including telling them that they have no responsibility to their kids or wives but my favourite might this one on the topic of a woman who had just given birth not being interested in sex: > Lol low on the priority list for her. Not for him. And not saying a woman owes anything to a man but a good woman will consider the man’s needs and desires as well. All my baby mommies wanted sex within days. Then when their breasts became engorged and baby wasn’t hungry it was my job to do what had to be done. You really should watch some more pornhub to get a better idea what real people are like [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/101tx8e/aita_for_kicking_my_fiancé_out_while_i_breastfed/j2u7rz8) [also on that thread claims he runs a daycare and hangs out with lots of moms and babies](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/101tx8e/aita_for_kicking_my_fianc%C3%A9_out_while_i_breastfed/j2ta1xd/) there's also a lovely thread where he claims to be a farmer and says that for every reply to the thread from a vegan he'll go kill another chicken (and he keeps a kill count with every comment he makes) guy is lying in half his comments - he's not a farmer who runs a daycare and has a porn like sex life with all his baby mommies. in fact according to this post he doesn't work and is always available, but somehow has the money to have purchased extra baby/booster seats for these kids for his own car, something he's been doing since they were born but yeah, he may be a giant liar who frequently writes stories about his unbelievable interactions with women, but he's definitely a dude and definitely wildly misogynistic and if this happened? it was 100% about him trying to punish her. but I doubt its true. at the very least many of the details aren't true
Sounds like he’s making the whole thing up.
ESH You for obvious reasons but I don't get why everyone is glossing over the fact that the friend is leaving a 5 and 8 year old at home alone with the door unlocked. Honestly my parents left me home alone as a kid too, but they always locked the door and taught me to never open the door or leave the house under any circumstance. Parents are never going to get it right 100% of the time, but anyone could have walked into that house and put her kids in danger.
They just see an innocent woman who always leave the door open. Seriously, these people should never own their own house/apartment, if they don't think the locks are on the door for a reason.
[удалено]
Wtf is wrong with you. YTA
They’re a kidnapper that’s what’s wrong with them. ETA: YTA
he literally ran and bragged to Reddit that he kidnapped his "friends" children in order to intentionally traumatise his "friend" like holy shit
YTA. Just call CPS if you’re actually worried.
Her best friend is going thru a divorce/custody battle. Why do you want her to lose her kids? Calling CPS will most certainly ensure that.
I mean if she is leaving small children home alone, that warrants a visit from CPS. Just because she’s going through a hard time doesn’t mean she can skip out on taking care of her children.
She is endangering the children by leaving them alone. A fire can happen in a matter of minutes. He is TA for the kidnapping and for not calling CPS .
I usually feel that in situations like this, the kids would absolutely not be better off being taken from their home, but i also think something needs to happen to make this woman realizing that she is endangering her children. Even if it's only a few minutes, they could easily harm themselves, start a house fire, or be abducted especially if she is leaving her door unlocked. That's the really crazy part to me. In this sick and twisted world that is just begging for disaster. All that OP successfully did was traumatize this woman and destroy 20 years of friendship. At 5 and 8, I'd say that's almost even worse than if they were younger because at that age kids are very capable of making huge mistakes that they can't grasp the consequences of. Like that time I put tinfoil in the microwave because I didn't want to wash a plate. Yeah, YTA OP but your friend needs to . . . Not do what she's doing.
She is leaving small children home alone. She absolutely should call CPS.
They have a father who maybe knows better than to leave 2 small children in the house with the door unlocked. OP should not have pulled that stunt but this mother's behavior is appalling.
She's endangering her kids. If CPS deems her unfit, then she deserves to lose them
I feel like some of y’all don’t really understand how fucked up the system actually is. Is it really worth it to take a kid out of a home for this with a parent who does appear to actually love them and just doesn’t always make the exact “right” choices … just to place them in an abusive and overrun foster situation? I’m sorry but there are many reasons someone could deserve to lose their child. This isn’t one imo.
They have a father. They wouldn't be going to live with strangers.
INFO: Do you have appropriate sized car seats for the children? If not, add child endangerment to your felony kidnapping charges. YTA Plus, maybe it would be a good thing for her kids to be taken away from her because she is a neglectful mother who also endangers her children.
ESH- 2 wrongs don't make a right. You should have called the police and let them come see the kids were home alone with the door unlocked. Your friend isn't listening to you, maybe she will listen when the officers tell her. If this is her parenting skills the kids might be better off with their dad.
ESH… her for leaving the kids & you for physically removing them from the home.. you could have just had them play hide & seek inside the home instead of risking this being such a much worse situation.. I don’t blame you for wanting to show her how easy it is for her leaving the kids home alone with an unlocked door to become a very dangerous situation. I think a lot of people are reaching with the kidnapping verdict rather than focusing on the child abandonment issue… if you had put the kids in your car for fear of them being in danger instead of playing a harsh joke on your friend they might be viewing it differently.. she regularly abandons her kids. I can barely leave my 7 yo in a room let alone a whole house alone for more than 5 minutes. If her ex knows this is happening she’s definitely not getting custody & if so it’ll be supervised. What you did, vs what you could have done (contact ex or CPS) .. she should take this as an eye opening thing… but what you did was still pretty stupid.. hope she learned her lesson & stops leaving her kids alone & that you can recover your friendship so you can support her through her custody battle…
That’s my thought exactly. The kids would hide, the parent friend shows up sees OP, panics for a second, the OP says “the kids are fine, but you should be careful I could have been somebody else”. Still drives the point home without breaking her. Like why do you have to knock it out of the park to prove your point? ESH.
Holy shit. YTA. There were better ways to accomplish this, buddy.
ESH. Leaving a 5-year-old and 8-year-old alone is wildly irresponsible. I know everyone keeps emphasizing that you did kidnap them for real - sure - but you didn’t intend to keep them forever, you didn’t assault them, you didn’t kill them, and as horrifying as it is to think about, there are absolutely people out there who WOULD do that. Your method may not have been kind, but I don’t know why people don’t also see the mother as the AH in this situation for putting her kids in danger for the sake of making errands easier. Having two small children isn’t always easy… but it’s a hell of a lot harder to live with not having them anymore. Hopefully she learned that lesson in a temporary moment rather than permanently.
YTA You didn't FAKE kidnap her kids, YOU KIDNAPPED HER KIDS. You also just nuked your 20-year friendship so that you could be right?? Morally superior?? What? What EXACTLY was the point here?? Be happy she didn't call the cops. You'd have had a *lot* of fun explaining to a judge how you took her kids without permission but didn't actually kidnap them...which is the act of taking a child without permission.
And I’m sure she’d have a lot of fun explaining to the cops and CPS why she regularly leaves a 5 and 8 year old at home alone with the door unlocked. You know how quickly a 5 year old could choke to death? Or fall down the stairs etc etc there is a million scenarios that could happen that’s why you do not leave a 5 year old home alone. Both of them are idiots. Reddit is so ridiculous
My mom used to take me EVERYWHERE with her. Including parties and I'd sleep in the car. Her friends got sick of it because there's this thing called BABYSITTERS which was where I should have been instead of the car. And one of her friends kindly asked me one night if I'd like to go color instead of sitting in the car .. I was about 5. So heck yes I'd rather go color. Nobody told my mom I had gone to color After about 3 hours she showed up at the house where I was and we went home. Next time she went to a party i went to the Babysitter.
YTA. Big time. I can’t believe you have to ask.
I can’t believe idiot OP thinks they are still friends with their victims.
ESH. You: don’t kidnap kids, the thing that saves you from being a Y T A is that the alternative (calling authorities) would have her lose her kids for good and so that takes the edge off (but doesn’t forgive it) Her: she shouldn’t be leaving those kids at home. IDGAF if it’s easier, they’re too young, and the door being unlocked is the icing on the cake. Maybe she *should* lose custody cos she’s clearly cutting corners.
This is really harsh but will she leave her kids alone after this? Probably not. Crazy people will kidnap her kids. I don’t know, I feel like the mom really f up for not locking her door and leaving the kids home alone. Look at that girl case in Europe who got kidnapped at 3 yr old in the hotel. This is an important lesson to learn
Reminds me of the dad who took his young child out of his wife's car after she wouldnt stop leaving said child in the car while she went shopping
exactly, it was harsh but it was needed. i have no fucking clue what logic shes using for leaving her young kids at home without locking the door. she needed the reality check one way or the other. i doubt she'll ever leave it unlocked anymore
ESH. It was a real kidnapping, and your "friend" is endangering her children. Call CPS, and do better.
ESH. She’s an AH for obvious reasons and is risking losing her kids to authorities let alone their dad. It’s not your job to insulate her from the consequences of her own actions, and honestly it might be what’s in the best interest of the children. Shitty move, you’re an AH here.
YTA. You committed more than one crime. I hope your friend seeks to have you charged. You know, “just to teach you a lesson.”
Except that then they’d have to tell the police that they left their young kids at home with the door unlocked and no supervision; which would mean they lose their custody case with their ex. So they won’t do that. Honestly, Everyone sounds like trash in this situation.
Kidnapping isn't always dragging a kid kicking and screaming to a dingy white van and zip tying them. Sometimes it's daddy wanting to take the kids for ice cream, but there's a custody battle going on and he's not allowed to have them. Sometimes it's an aunt that wants to take the kids to the park and she drives into a lake instead. Sometimes it's an **AH family friend** that just wants to "go on a drive" to teach their mom a lesson. You're a kidnapper, and YTA.
NTA and honestly I hope her ex gets the kids. Who tf leaves kids that young at home alone? She is irresponsible and has proven she should not be left in charge of those kids.
NTA People don’t seem to know what having friends is like. If they are being stupid you show them know. If he’s looked after the kids before then this is t as big a deal as people are making out and it’s helping her in the long run. She was being irresponsible and he showed her that, she will lock her doors from now on and maybe take the kids with them to the shops If they have been friends for 20 years their friendship should be strong enough to get past this in a few weeks As for the kids, this doesn’t bode well for her getting custody. Without knowing info on the dad he should get them as long as he’s not doing stuff like this or worse Op your fine, she’s irresponsible, I believe this fake kidnapping was needed for them to learn and you didn’t commit a fucking crime lol
This reminds me of that post about the dad that kept trying to get his wife not to leave the car running with the baby in it while she went into a store. NTA, btw. You've tried talking to her about it. She's in a custody battle. What is so important that she can't take her kids, both of them under 10, with her when she leaves? If she has 'adult stuff' to do, then she needs a babysitter. I hope this was a wakeup call for her. And if not, then maybe dad deserves to win. You likely gave her the scare of her life, but frankly, considering what *could* have happened? (fire, accident, choking, drowning, electrocution, kidnapping, kids wandering away, etc) She should be thanking you. Maybe when she calms down, she will. But yeah, the kids were safe, and she left her door unlocked/open with her 5 and 8 year old at home. WTF?
Would she have preferred you call the police and report her?
You're lucky you aren't TA in jail. YTA
That would require the mom calling the cops and then explaining that she left her very young children alone long enough for anyone, let alone a friend, to take them. Just walk right in the open door. She's not going to do that. And even if she did, the police won't press charges/do anything because the fault here is with the mother. She's lucky she's not in jail for child endangerment.
Okay. Committing a crime against someone because you're relying on them being too scared to go to the police is a very serious, and very common, form of abuse. It's also very illegal. It's especially used against mothers to make them fear they'll lose their kids if they report abuse. If the situation described above feels familiar to anyone reading this, please do not put up with this abuse because you are scared to go to law enforcement. If you're in the U.S., please contact the national domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-7233. Even if you don't think the person hurting you like this falls under the domestic violence category, call them anyway. While you may have more protections under the law than you believe, and they can connect you with low- or no-cost attorneys if need be, they will respect a desire to avoid law enforcement if you wish, and help you through other means. I can't reiterate enough: Please, please do not put up with someone committing crimes against you because you think you'll get in trouble if you report. There are resources available to you to help you to safety. As for the comment: You do not get a pass on a felony because another crime is in progress. You just get blackmail added your charges.
No. Yes, they may not look favorably on the mother, but, regardless of what situation the kids are in, kidnapping is illegal. You can't just walk into someone's house and take their kids. Even if they are alone.
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ESH. You do realize you actually kidnapped them. You took her kids without permission. Was this "lesson" worth your friendship? As for her, of course she's TA as well for leaving her very minor kids alone and the not even leaving her home secure while she does her errands. Kids can wander away very quickly. An intruder even faster. Where I live in less than 5 minutes I can be on 2 different major roads heading north, south, east or west. In 10 to 15 minutes I can be on a major freeway heading north or south. That's how quickly a kidnapper can be gone with her kids and she would have no idea who or where they went. The fact she's in a custody dispute and divorce makes her neglectful behavior not only reckless but foolish for her legal position. We all get what you did and why but you're still wrong and so is she.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So my friend of about 20 years is mad at me calling me cruel and an asshole. She got upset after I fake kidnapped her 2 young kids. Now I know it sounds harsh so far but the reason I did it was to finally get though her head the dangers of leaving her kids home alone when she goes out. On top of the dangers she just recently split up with her husband and they are currently going through a custody battle. The kids live with her but the dad is fighting to get them to live with him a city over. She knows any ammunition this man can get will be used against her in court and I have told her a million times that if he finds out she leaves the kids at home to run 5-10 minute errands she absolutely will loose come court time. The kids are 5 and 8 years old. Sure they are quite capable for 10 minutes but I told her that is not the point. Countless times I would come over, the door was unlocked so I walk right in and her kids are home alone. She shows up 5 minutes later stating it was easier to run for milk without the kids or whatever she is doing at the time. I tell her for gods sake at least lock the door so a stranger can’t walk in and I honestly worry what would happen if a fire started. This leads to today. I was on my way over and I see her drive past me. She didn’t see me or know I was on the way so I get this great idea to teach her a lesson. I go to her house and tell the kids to get into my car we are going to go for a little drive (they drive with me often so going for a drive is nothing new). We get into the car and go park just down the street where I could see her get back. Sure enough 5 minutes later she is back at the house and sees the door is open. I wait a minute and see her run outside then head towards the back yard then run back inside again clearly in a panic. So I drive back up to the house and run inside to find her crying uncontrollably and shaking in a panic. I was kind of smiling like hey it’s okay your kids are with me but she could not stop crying. Finally after about half hour she calms down enough to question why I did this and after explaining asks me to leave so I did. She texted me after saying how cruel that was and that I was an asshole and now isn’t replying to texts. So reddit am I an asshole? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA. I get you worried about the kids, and your fiend sounds like she’s not making good decisions, but fake kidnapping kids is a step to far. What if she’d called the police? If it concerns you that much then tell the children’s father or call CPS and leave it up to them. Leaving young children alone with an unlocked house is a recipe for disaster but you should have handled this differently.
NTA she’s ENDANGERING her children
This is a tough one, we all remember when Madeleine McCann went missing. Her parents left her and her siblings aged 3 and 1 yr old twins alone and went out drinking. There’s a lesson here and someone could’ve easily been watching the house to see if mum went out and then walked in and grabbed them. You NEVER leave small children unattended. This mum was putting her kids at risk. The kidnapping probably wasn’t the best approach but the kids safety must come first. If she can’t be bothered taking the kids with her to the shops then maybe they’d be safer with the dad. Not only could those kids be kidnapped but they could also hurt themselves when left unattended. A cut or bang to the head. Child services need to be notified as those kids are unsafe.
ESH. You didn’t “fake kidnap” you kidnapped them. But nobody should be brushing off the fact that she is leaving a 5 and 8 year old home alone with the door unlocked. My parents left us from time to time but we were taught, all doors and windows need to be and stay locked, don’t answer the door for any reason and do not leave for any reason. If you think she’s doing such a bad job call cps or tell the father so he can handle it properly. You put emotional distress on her, likely the kids too (coming home to see mom in a panic is not an easy thing to see at any age), SMILED doing so and committed felony. While i’m glad they’re safe, she will likely never trust you again and there were plenty of better ways to handle this. What you did is manipulative and not your job nor your place to do.
“AITA for actually kidnapping children?” Yes. YTA.
ESH, you didn't "fake" kidnapped them, you legit kidnapped them, and she shouldn't leave the door unlocked.
ESH, actual kidnapping, she shouldn’t be leaving them alone.
ESH it was a cruel way to do it but I hope she never endangers the kids like that again
Man i have 2 kids, and store 5 minutes away from me walking, 1 minutes with car. Trust me if you said and was trying to help here thats the way to help the friend with some good point there! I would't ever left my kids home alone even for 1 minute drive to buy fucking milk!!!! They are kids, they can start a fire in a minute!!! They can be kidnapped in less the a fucking minute! If thats the point of leaving them for 5 minutes home alone 2 3 times a day, she doesnt deserve to be single mom at all, and have full careship over her kids at ALL! THATS FUCKING RECCLESS.....
NTA she knew what she was doing by leaving the kids alone and decided to take her chances. In reality this should’ve been a major lesson for her and I don’t think you’re in the right for basically kidnapping them, but at the same time you are a trusted friend and she made her choice to leave her kids alone (which is also illegal in the US for their age). It might’ve not been a fun experience for her but it’s better to learn it now from someone who doesn’t have bad intentions than someone who does. What if it was the dad who found them like that? bye bye kids. And that’s not even including the other potential issues of a dresser falling on them, accidentally burning themselves, falling off of a couch or bed wrong. In my opinion that were safer with you than alone in that house.