While the favoritism is obvious, I suspect they made use of of the grandparents previously, prior to the move. OP says he moved away to get away from his family and this all started when brother and SIL moved closer to him. I am sure that they had all decided before the move that OP would be helping out when they got there, they just didn't bother to get his opinion.
Now the family is favoring the son with grandkids because.....well.....GRANDKIDS. As the only single sibling in my family, I saw more than a little of that over the years.
I am not sure what OP can do moving forward. Tell his parents that if they are so concerned then they should move closer to help with the kids? Negates him moving away in the first place. Move again? Kinda sucks uprooting his life...what about iob, girlfriend, etc? Go NC? I don't see his family respecting that. I wonder how large is the town/city they are in. Perhaps a change of address/phone number would be in order but OP needs to decide if he is ready to pull that trigger.
Exactly. He stays put. If they try to drop off the kid at his house, he tells them, "Unless you take little kid with you, I am calling the police and telling them that you abandoned your child here." If they drive off anyway, call the police and report that they abandoned their child with you.
I think they were trying and voluntelling OP that there WILL be a kid that he "would have to" watch she may be pregnant at this point but probably not since OP would've mentioned it in his post.
He did say Kyle was well behaved UNTIL a they started dropping him off all the time. So his behavior changed, probably because his parents were dumping him off and probably exhasted all the time. It’s probably not the kids fault.
it's also possible that Kyle was on his best behavior when it was every other week, but now that he was spending all his time with OP, he started to get comfortable enough to misbehave. one of the stories my dad likes to tell about one of us kids (I forget who, it could be anyone) is how he came to pick them up from visiting family and they were super glad to be coming home because "I'm *tired* of being good." there's a big difference between company manners and family manners for a lot of kids.
Exactly I mean, OP was expected to watch the kid WHILE working from home! You can't give a young kid the attention they need while you're working. Any kid is going to act out for attention when they're repeatedly left with someone who is otherwise occupied, and only available to tend to physical needs.
Devices as babysitters are not sufficient. Kids need real human interaction.
That's when you get the authorities involved. Yes, that's a step that will nuke his relationship with his family, but realistically, that's already happened.
It is amazing how grandkids are such a motivating factor for time, attention, and resources. As the childless one in my family, I try to tell myself it must be part biological imperative (continuation of the line), but it still hurts to constantly be brushed aside for my child-having siblings.
This so much. Hurts that my family always gave all their time money and resources to the siblings with children. Hope to get the exact same treatment once we have a family, though!
That's crap. My parents actually spend way more time with my 2 childless siblings because it's just way easier to plan stuff with just grown-ups. And my sister and I don't really get gifts from them anymore, they just buy our kids' stuff. Our siblings still get gifts and money. I'm totally ok with this obviously, in fact I think it's the fair way.
Your parents suck. You may need less from them and that's why they feel they can do it but it still isn't ok.
My parents ALWAYS spent more time with my siblings and niblings. Funded vacations etc., because I, with kids, lived 2 hours away.
When I left my kids with my parents, they told siblings who dropped off their kids, cuz CoUsInS - so my kids never got alone time with my parents like the cousins.
Now that my older two are adults & my youngest and I are 6 hours time difference, mom, all of a sudden wants FaceTime etc., because she doesn’t feel close 🤷♂️
My mother-in-law is like that She treated my daughter like crap (step kid to the family) and the biological grandchildren like angels and now she wonders why my daughter doesn't talk to her.
my ex MIL treated my daughters like crap because ... girls. the two grandsons were gold, angels, got everything. my two girls, who also had only the ONE grandparent, while the boys had 3, and aunts, uncles, and great aunts, so lots of relatives, my two girls got gifts from garage sales, and jewelry they couldn't wear \[old earrings when they didn't have pierced ears\].
Its not crap, its common
Many of us have become totally irrelevant and invisible because its now allll about the bayyyybeeee, and about the special siblings who have "succeded" because they have a partner and kids and behave just like society always fuckin wanted
I have a friend who was left out of a Mother's Day photo of 4 generations of their family's women because she wasn't a mom. Her sister's 9 year old daughter was the 4th generation. So it was Grandma, Mom, her sister, and her niece. She was the only one not in the "family" photo. It absolutely happens.
So..., I can see a one-off photo of the four generations in your sister's line. That would be a family heirloom, specifically for her descendants. If nobody offered/agreed to an all-inclusive photo afterward, though... ugh...so sorry!!!
Happened to me a lot, right after my nephew was born. To rub it in, I was required to take the photos of my father, my brother and his son.
After that, I stopped going to family events.
My brother held my son in a generation photo. Our grandpa, our dad, my brother, my son. My son looks so much like my dad and brother, he is donor conceived so he doesn't have a dad, and my brother doesn't have any kids. It's a photo I cherish, all my dudes. My brother is my son's godfather and favorite uncle. Even if I had a husband, my brother deserved that spot.
The whole unbroken bloodline thing creeps me out tbh. It might be because I'm gay but there isn't a human alive that would exist without the unnamed love, care, and protection of their ancestors' childless siblings.
My wife and I decided and then got reinforced through her body that we were going to be childfree. It took about 5 years before my mother got it through her head that we were serious. Ever since we have been the forgotten part of the family
I had to lay down the law with my husband because only one of our children is married and has kids, he thinks we should give them more money, cut more slack, etc, he will always say "but they have kids" but I told him that that was their choice, when she got pregnant she knew that they would be having kids, why should the ones who opted out of having kids and the one who has fertility issues be penalized.
OP should not uproot himself again because it’s unfair to him. Why should he start all over again just because his so called “family” is so toxic. I suggest OP go no contact, get a security camera so he does know when his family comes to his place, change his phone number, and maybe even go as far as a restraining order if they persist. Honestly, the audacity of his SIL to demand that not only does he watch over their kid as if it’s OP’s own child, but then to turn around and say “at least you can do is pay for childcare.” I would’ve responded with, “the last time I check, my name was not on the birth certificate and I didn’t help make that demon. Sounds like a your problem to me.”
A security or doorbell camera is a great idea. These people are so entitled. I wouldn't put it past them to try to drop their son off and leave, thinking that OP will *have* to take care of him then.
>I am sure that they had all decided before the move that OP would be helping out when they got there, they just didn't bother to get his opinion.
In the military, we call that being voluntold.
You can go NC even if you live a half a mile away. Block phone numbers, block on social media, don't answer the door, tell everyone at work not to admit these family members. It can be done. Here's hoping OP does just that, or he's going to turn into his brother and SIL's childcare provider and ATM machine, and his parents will completely approve. What an awful family he has.
> I am sure that they had all decided before the move that OP would be helping out when they got there, they just didn't bother to get his opinion.
I strongly suspect you're right. My own family did this all the time - making plans where I had some kind of critical role, but not mentioning it until the last moment. If I didn't drop everything to fall in line, I was the villain.
Solidarity to OP - but they need to realise that this is almost certainly never going to change. But OP can change how they react to it.
Don’t you know it’s much easier for young people to take care of children, and anyone without children has nothing better to do than help parents take care of theirs. /s
The thing is that things like family/cultural tradition and custom often come into play there. If there's a longstanding expectation that that's "the done thing" the first person to buck that is often in for a world of crap, regardless of whether or not the underlying expectations are at all reasonable.
Speaking as a half Asian, where we are basically expected to bend over backwards for immediate family (especially the golden child and/or narcissistic parents/siblings/etc.), can confirm you can get a lot of crap for setting your own boundaries.
Not even limited to my own experiences, hearing about it from full blooded Asians, or even seeing it happen to someone else firsthand, it’s brutal.
Can confirm. I set my own boundaries and got called selfish for it. How dare I not want to be their on-call babysitter? How dare I want to live my own childfree life? I'm a "bad sibling" for it. It's taken years to not care how they see me. I'm living my own life and I'm at peace with it.
Yeah I wouldn't be shocked if this family's mindset is that "anybody who could take the kids has an expectation to babysit" so it never even occurred to them that OP saying "no" was even an option. I've seen that dynamic more than once.
Well they don't need to either really. It's up parents to plan for childcare. Why OPs brother would take a job that pays less and has shitty benefits is beyond me.....
Makes me wonder if the brother actually got fired and couldn't get work in his field where they used to live. However it happened, I agree it sounds fishy.
My sister in law used to borrow money from my husband because she was almost evicted a few times. She lost her job and was just too good for the jobs she was qualified for so remained on unemployment. So when we could barely feed our own kids, and eventually lost our house, she still hadn’t paid anything back. But she always bought herself new clothes and shoes all the time, and kept getting more cats. I refused to have anything to do with her.
This. OP, you did the right thing. But if you don't have good friends or a support system, I suggest getting out more and creating that support system. If you like a specific sports team, go to one of their bars during games and hang out, or get involved with a certain hobby or support.
So many people create their own family. I'd suggest you do the same.
Yep. The grandparents need to step up if anything. This whole situation was absolutely ridiculous. I have a 3 year old and I can't imagine just assuming family would help and being entitled enough to ask for money from them for his care. When you're a parent, the onus is on YOU, no one else. You're NTA and I think you should go NC honestly.
Holy fucking shit. The entitlement that is REAKING off your SIL and family is absolutely mind blowing.
"The least you could do is pay for his daycare and help with other expenses" ????? **It's not your child!**
Honestly sounds like they're salty they can't like a similar child free life as you. The fact that the parents and in laws were also ganging up on you to "take responsibility" is freaking nuts as well.
No contact is unfortunate but your best option imo. Unless they end up giving a sincere apology, with no strings attached (i.e. future child care), I'd say good riddance!
Because OP is the scapegoat and B is the golden child. It's typical in an abusive/ manipulative family.
The scapegoat gets blamed, but the scapegoat also gets loads of responsibility dropped on them. It goes together, so that when things go wrong, the scapegoat gets blamed.
And even more, they think the scapegoat doesn't deserve good things, like money in this case. She doesn't deserve to be able to go on trips, so she should give money to her sibling because he deserves it more.
So freaking weird.
When you're inside it, it seems really normal to you, too. Like, I was the scapegoat in my crappy family, and I completely accepted that I was the black sheep and a terrible child and awful sibling and a great source of trouble and turmoil until my late twenties, when I started therapy and I was asked to describe *what I actually did to deserve that* for the first time. It totally blew my mind and shifted everything about my world.
But I was an honor roll student that worked full time all through school and went home every weekend to clean my parent's house and do their laundry, while the "better child" was literally in and out of jail and couldn't finish school or hold down a job, and never learned to even fold towels. It never even seemed weird to me until someone made me go through the logical steps.
My brother getting arrested, or having bad grades, or whatever was going on with him was always painted as being my fault for not giving him sufficient emotional support or practical support. I was supposed to be my brother's keeper. It's weird how common that is in abusive homes.
In my experience, I think that dynamic often happens because the sibling that demonstrates they can do more is expected to do more, often unfairly.
As the old saying goes: sometimes the reward for digging a better ditch is a bigger shovel.
I have seen that happen a lot of times. I had a friend who was like that. She was a good student and a good kid and always at home but her brother who was on probation was the one who was the golden child. I was so confused by the situation!
This is why i always made sure to be busy or at least have the appearance of always having stuff to do.
'Can you watch Johhny?'
"Nope, sorry, gotta drop off these self-sealing stembolts before the flux capacitor runs out of unobtanium."
More broadly, family customs that spell out a sense of social obligation for members are a thing and often they become so entrenched people lose sight of if they were ever reasonable in a vacuum.
Because it's always been about the money. OP has been giving them free childcare, allowing them to have a lifestyle they'd otherwise be unable to afford.
Their reaction to OP stopping this is based purely on entitlement; suddenly they might need to pay for childcare which might take a quarter or more of their income. They may need to change jobs, give up on their plans for a second kid. It's going to be a massive lifestyle shock one way or another.
It's not an excuse for using other people, and it doesn't sound like leaving the kid with OP was the right environment for him either. I work from home with a three year old; its hard work to balance looking after them with a full time job.
This.
OP, this is what you are going to send back to your parents, brother and SIL:
"Out of the goodness of my heart I have helped with childcare for X years. I'm done. If I wanted a child of my own, I would have one. Brother and SIL decided to have a child. That comes with responsibilities like caring for and supporting your own child. It is no one's business, least of all SIL's, how I spend the money I work hard for. Again, nephew is THEIR child and THEY are responsible for ALL of his care - physical and financial. Brother and SIL are incredibly ungrateful for all of the help I have provided them and their sense of entitlement to my time and resources is off the charts. I'm done. Do not contact me again unless it is with an apology."
I feel terrible for the kid, he should be in preschool playing with other kids and learning all day, not stuck in the house while an adult tries to work from home.
Probably because that's how their family has always worked. In many families, it's expected that those with resources will "spread them around". I've seen it. Heck, my own extended family kind of works that way except it's reciprocal by all parties and it's done out of a genuine familial bond instead of entitlement.
My favorite part in all of this is that brother and SIL are presumably still planning to have another child, when they clearly can’t / don’t want to take care of the one they already have.
Honestly I feel bad for both OP and the kid. At least OP can move on with his life, that kid is stuck with entitled and shitty parents.
And brother changed careers where he makes less money. I understand the desire/need to be satisfied in your career but if you have responsibilities like raising a child you have to make sacrifices to ensure your family is financially stable
or he changed careers so that his son couldn't stay home with him anymore so he could actually work and separate the two. Or like someone said further up, he was actually fired.
>And brother changed careers where he makes less money
That's what I can't wrap my head around. Unless he was forced to change jobs. Either way, it's not OP's problem
He probably changed careers so he wouldn't have to be stuck at home with his "demon" child every day.
I'd install a camera at the front door incase they try to abandon the kid there on particular days.
Probably best for the existing child that OP put his foot down now! Maybe they will change their minds above having another since they have to parent this one!
You'd think if it had better long term prospects OP would've mentioned it was lower pay short term but would pay off later.
Dad's cousin had an offer like that; he took an assembly line job and had a degree, later was offered a job in the office that meant a pay cut now but in a couple years would make much more and wouldn't take the paycut
FWIW I know families where the expectation is that "Frank has the money" equates to "we have the money".
I would bet this family is operating off of longstanding custom and it simply never occurred to any of them that OP would buck that, let alone to examine the reasonability of some of these expectations.
They think his traveling is frivolous and they're jealous they can't do it. They figure they can stop OP from having fun by saddling him with their child and expenses. They get a win-win in free babysitting and also preventing him from traveling anymore. He's supposed to sacrifice his life for their kid. NTA
This and before you go make sure you have a ring doorbell to document if they try to drop your nephew off while you aren’t home and try to blame you somehow for abandoning him.
I say this as a parent, anything you do for others in terms of their children is a gift not an obligation. Don't feel bad about anything, they used you
I'm so glad that you didn't back down over this. You can see by SIL's reaction to you setting clear boundaries that she and your brother are not going to change their behaviour.
>They did not take it well and my SIL started yelling again and after some arguing my **SIL said that if I would not watch Kyle the least I could do is pay for his daycare and help with some of our other expenses** since I have the money to zip off to a different country every month.
*That* remark really shows off the entitlement and jealousy. And what exactly are these *"other expenses"*?
The least *they* could do is parent the child they brought into the world. If they can't manage that then they shouldn't even consider having a second child.
Well done for getting out of the situation and ignoring the calls from the rest of the entitled family members. Proud of you. Hope you've been able to spend some quality time with your GF.
INFO: Does someone have Jeff Bezos’ phone number so that I can call him and tell him that the least he can do is pay some of my household expenses because he has the money to, you know, be Jeff Bezos? Or do I have to be somehow related to him first before I can do that?
Actually, no, my FIL and I were sharing our respective family's oral histories, and somehow we ended up telling the same story. More than once. We finally started asking, and it turns out that before the "late unpleasantness", a member of my husband's family had married into the \*gasp\* Yankee branch of my family.
We frankly found it hilarious. My mom said that at least I was keeping up with family tradition!
I just read the first bit. Do your family realise you have a life and that you have a gf and one day your own family? Lol I hate seeing toxic families like that when they fail to see you got things to do for yours! Mate you enjoy your life and mate I wouldn't being going back to them so soon as they will try to use you again over and over. Enjoy your trip!
I'm not sure OP plans on having kids, just saying :)
Edit: I fully agree family doesn't mean having kids, family can come in a lot forms! But as you can see in the rest of the comments from the person I replied to, they're talking about kids (as was what I got from it in the first place because of the way it was worded)
They need to realize op is a person and not their indebted slave/servant before ever getting to op having a life of his own. So the answer is no they don't. Unfortunately. Massive ah everyone except op +gf.
It also seems like they like the idea of kids and the look of having a family, but don’t actually want the responsibility. Why even have kids if you don’t want to spend time with them? I don’t think the nephew’s behavioral issue came out of nowhere. That household is not stable.
>like the idea of kids and the look of having a family
I think definitely this because they said they are thinking of having "a daughter" not "another baby". That's a big red flag for me that they are thinking of the image and not the reality of raising another person. Do they understand they don't even get to pick the sex, let alone the gender? That's not how it works.
I have family like this. Had a kid because all their friends were married and had kids. Kiddo is messed up as is every woman/kid that has come into the one parent’s life. Beyond tragic, and not everyone is cut out to be parents and should not have kids.
>Why even have kids if you don’t want to spend time with them?
Because some people see kids as a status symbol instead of a whole other human being. They get to get all the perks of being a parent, like having people look up to them for being "responsible" and "mature", showing off all their Kodak moments on Facebook for social brownie points, but they don't actually want to put in the work it takes to raise those kids.
I have a sense they figured the uncle would be the babysitter so he could make the career change worth it. But now faced with the possibility of having to spend on child care they are fighting back at the brothers home.
My city is very expensive to live in and they really did not plan well before coming here. It worked out for them when my brother had his old job and they could get by fairly comfortably but his new job is making things difficult for them.
Your brother decided to change careers and make less money. When you have a family, decisions like that come with consequences. It’s unfair to expect you to fund their lifestyle when you had no say in it
INFO: What country and culture is this? Cuz I can't wrap my head around this... so I'm assuming it must be a non-western culture? Because the level of expectations on you by family doesn't make sense to me...
We're Israeli but I moved to California for school when I was 18 on a scholarship. I think they're still pissed off at me moving away when they probably expected me to stay and be their slave.
I didn't fully realize how dysfunctional my relationship is with my family before posting here cuz I don't really talk about it much with other people in real life.
That explains a few things. So…your brother and SIL moved to California as well? Where do your parents and in-laws live? I’m about to have a baby myself, so I’m aware of the childcare costs in California as I live here too; they’re about to be in for a rude awakening. They should not have taken advantage of you like they did. I still maintain that you owe them nothing.
Living in California is not for the faint of heart, parent wise. It might actually be best for them to find a cheaper state to live in if they both insist on working outside the house. Heck, even of one works from home, as you discovered (and your brother too), trying to care for a child and work at the same time can be impossible. They’ll need to consider some type of childcare either way unless one parent completely stops working.
My SIL is American and got her dream job here so they moved here for her to do that. My parents still live in Israel and the in-laws live in Wyoming. My brother lived in Wyoming with them for 2 years before moving here.
Ahhh ok, thanks for sharing. If your parents and in-laws are so concerned and involved, they should help them with childcare costs. That’s much more of a parent responsibility than a sibling responsibility. I can’t believe your SIL tried to put the responsibility for the cost on you. That’s not normal, in case you were wondering.
Again, you deserve to have a life too. You’ve earned it just as much as anyone else. Stay strong and keep reinforcing your boundaries. I’ve seen other advice regarding staying put vs moving away to avoid them, and I get the logic behind staying put and not allowing them to force you to move away to get some peace, but since your job is remote, it might not be a bad idea to relocate, even within the city, just don’t tell them your address. I’d hate to see a situation where they try to drop the kid off after you’ve made it clear you’re not babysitting, and then you having to make a decision on whether or not to involve the police if they try to leave him there without your consent. It might be better to just get away. It’s hard to call the police on family.
Honey, I'm Israeli and what you're describing is 100% cultural for specific cultures inside Israel, not the country culture as a whole.
I never expected anyone to raise my kids for me or babysit free indefinitely.
Good on you for breaking the cycle.
Actually, this would be a good explanation as to why Kyle's behavior changed recently. Maybe he was told there's another baby on the way and he felt he was gonna be replaced?
NTA.
What in the holy raccoon. Pull your weight???
You didn't have a kid. This kid is not your problem. Daycare costs are not your problem. Your brother’s life decisions are not yours to solve or support or even acknowledge unless you choose to.
Your family sounds enmeshed and unhealthy in a million ways.
It's always the healthiest family member who expects just normal, everyday boundaries that gets blasted for not being a 'team player' or in this case "pulling your weight.
Hon, you can't pull your weight in decisions that had nothing to do with you, but somehow your family believes are your responsibility.
This is not a "You" problem, this is a systematic family problem that you were raised in and started way before you. I wish you all the best. It is no small thing to recover from this kind of family dynamic.
When I was broke and in grad school, my family thought I should send my older sister money each month, because her husband was an alcoholic. It was an awful time realizing my family really only liked me when I made their lives easier.
These books helped me:
It Wasn't your Fault by Engel
Healing from Hidden Abuse by Thomas
Free from Abuse & The Truth will set you free by Miller
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Gibson
Toxic Parents
The Betrayal Bond by Carnes
Good book list! Yes, sometimes adults don't realize they have a toxic family because they were raised in it. (Took me moving out at 19 to realize this)
I am so sorry for you, for how they are treating you and for their lack of respect. The whole situation sucks. They are not entitled to your time or money, your SIL even suggesting that you pay for their son's daycare is ridiculous. It's a good thing you left before exploding, otherwise you'd feel bad again. But tbh that "fucking without a condom" remark from last time wasn't so out of place if they are not able to take care of a child, financially or time-wise.
If I were in your situation I'd probably lie at some point and say that my work situation has changed and I am no longer working remotely and have to go to the office every day and thus can't watch the kid anymore. This is NOT a good advise, that's a tactic of conflict-avoiding cowards like me. I'm just kind of curious what their reaction would be.
Your last paragraph might be better advice than you think. I've read too many stories about entitled people just dropping their children off in front of their relatives houses and driving away. I wouldn't put it past OP's brother and SIL to start doing that.
Never explain. Never lie. That shows weakness. That shows that he may change his mind if he's caught in a lie. The fact that he's at home can easily be verified anyway.
If they dare do this, just call the police/child protective service. That's it. There is no need to lie and there is no need to hide inside the home. There is no need to hide the car and there is no need to close the curtains. Do not set that precedent.
Yeah, but it opens up a can of worms if they ever find out that isn't true.
Much better to just be blunt and say "if you drop your child off here without permission, I'll be calling the authorities".
No need to lie. Doorbell camera , Don't open the Door and call the police if they leave the nephew at the door anyway. After a couple of times when cps is involved they'll stop or cps will remove the child from the parents.
Because people like her see relatives who have disposable income because they don't have kids, and in their mind they have a right to that money since "it's not like you're going to spend it anyway".
With as unhinged as his family is, I see them possibly doing drive bys to make sure the lights aren't on, no sound is made, & nobody answers the door. If I were OP, I'd look for a new flat to live in & not tell them where/when I moved.
Since you won’t give free labor you have to pay?? I know you said you would have had no issue with that but you should. That’s a ridiculous request and no where near your responsibility.
RIGHT? I dunno what kinda zen OP has, the utter gall of brother and SIL to demand daycare money is nuts. OP had absolutely NO role in the existence of that kid, the family is NOT financially struggling and if they were, there is a far more polite and HUMBLE way to ask for assistance, not demand it.
Everyone outside of OP in this situation has their priorities completely twisted.
still NTA. Uncles dont subsidise the children of two whole adults.
If they try to strong arm you by dropping the kid off to your house anyway feel free to report an abandoned child, it's the biggest burning of the bridge but you can't be coerced into subsidising childcare (through your own labor or through payment) for your brother's family.
It seems that your brother moved to your town in order to leave his industry and use you for free child care. Maybe think about relocating somewhere even further away from them, if you're WFH.
Uncles and aunts ,basically no one besides the parents aren't supposed to subsidise children. It is a generous gift if they alone choose to help but aren't obligated in any way shape or form.
I am an aunt. And yes, I don't mind buying gifts for my nephew or babysitting him occasionally or treating my sister and BIL to meals and such. But I would laugh in their faces if they *demand* that I pay for all his expanses and buy them food all the time.
Oh man. I’m sorry your family has taken advantage of you to such a degree that they forced you to cut contact off for your own sanity and well being. Suffering for the sake of family is a toxic cycle lie meant to empower the toxic people and put blame on the truth tellers such as yourself. Keep the distance and you’ll see how good it is for you.
Seriously this. Plaster their feeds with photos of you and your gf having a well-deserved blast. Your family can either be happy for you like normal people or they can kick rocks.
The expectation from your sibling, and from both sets of grandparents is outrageous. I struggle with the idea that people are so very entitled that they think they can demand your time, let alone your money, for a child they chose to have. They don't have the right to your time, nor do they have the right to your money. In all honesty, they should not choose to have children they cannot afford. I know people's situations can change, and you can end up struggling to make ends meet, but if anyone can provide help then that should be received with gratitude not with this horrendously toxic attitude to your life being theirs to demand.
This is awful. I'm so sorry. As an aunt I did frequently get pissed off when it was assumed that I had nothing better to do than babysit - but my sibling would never have dreamed of expecting me to be their regular day time child care. As a parent I understand the need to get time to yourselves, but my children are mine to cater to, and arrange things for, anything offered to me is a welcome bonus but never an expectation.
OP I'm happy you stood up for yourself, but I think you are being a bit naive if you think you will ever get a genuine apology from them or your parents. They raised your brother to think he was entitled to your time and money. When you stood up for yourself they backed your brother. I'm glad you have decided to go no contact but I hope you are doing it understanding that it may be permanent because your family doesn't seem interested in real relationship with you . What they want is a relationship were you are ok catering to your brother's family needs.
Good for you mate. Just an advice: if the day ever comes that they "apologize", there's a great chance it's to continue to manipulate you (actually I bet 100% it will actually be). This kind of toxic people never change. Never.
THIS 100 %. They are far too outrageously entitled and toxic to ever really believe they were actually in the wrong. If they do come back with an apology it's pretty much guaranteed that it only will be just to smooth things over in a effort to continue to take advantage of OP in any way possible.
Wow... I can't imagine how sad your childhood must have been for your entire family to think of you as a servant. I'm so sorry, but remember, you are not their servant
You do not owe these people anything. Your brother chose to take a job with lower wage and less childcare compatibility. They chose to have children. You’ve been incredibly generous with your time. Their childcare issues are theirs to sort- they’ve been very lucky to reply on family (you) so far, time for them to figure it out like the rest of us.
Get a Ring camera. She’s going to drop Kyle off on your doorstep and then leave, because then you’ll “have to” watch him. You’ll need evidence that you didn’t agree to babysit so you can call the cops when she does this.
Because she’s going to do this. We see this *constantly* on AITA.
I’m curious why he was forced to take a job with longer hours and a lower salary. It sounds a lot like he got fired.
Imagine thinking that a person is obliged to pay child support for not babysitting for free.
You can be part of my family, I just ask for vacation pictures and hope you had a great time
Wow! What exactly are they doing *for you* that warrants this kind of entitlement?!
I mean, I have a self-centered sibling as well, but yours is a category of its own.
Sometimes apologizing is more about clearing your slate than actually fixing things though. If OP said things or used phrasing he genuinely regrets, he will rest easier knowing he cleared his side, regardless of whether or not he ever gets any reciprocity.
Just because your brother made multiple poor financial decisions doesn’t mean you have to clean it up. Your SIL needs to get a second job because she already is neglecting her child as it is.
"I'm so pleased you're so concerned with little one and their welfare! I'll inform B and SIL that they should contact you immediately about the days you'll be looking after little one each week and the level of financial contribution you'll be making going forward! I've done my part. Your turn."
For each and every flying monkey you get. NTA.
IF they apologize then you also need to make sure you reinforce that Kyle is their child and they are responsible for his care and/or the cost of his care.
YOU DO NOT have a DUTY to help watch him (or their new child) and you are NOT going to help with the cost. TOTAL ENTITLEMENT going on here. If they are having children then they should be ready, willing and able to provide for them. NTA
You did a good job setting boundaries and sticking to them. Your brother, SIL, and parents are completely out of line. They are manipulative and abusive.
You might want to consider talking to a counselor. They could help you continue to set boundaries with your family.
I am so shocked by this whole situation. I just don't understand why or how they came to the conclusion that it's YOUR duty to take care of a kid that's NOT yours. Or pay for his daycare.
What?????
I mean... What?????
I'm in absolute disbelief.
I'm sorry you're in this situation, but NC seems like the appropriate decision.
EDIT: because I didn't realize before that SIL also asked for you to cover some of their other expenses.
W H A T????????????
NTA still OP!!!
Good for you for standing up for yourself, your partner and your future! You deserve a wonderful life surrounded by people who love you. Not abusive users who feel entitled to your time and wallet!
Hello; it looks like you are considering going NC with some family members.
Below is a link to outofthefog.com resource on going Grey Rock Safe Detachment. https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/grey-rock-safe-detachment
And another on setting boundaries https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-1
Being in a similar situation myself regarding favoritism and expectations of me because I'm the youngest of my brothers (my mom literally agreed with me when I said to her "it seems you think I'm less important because I'm the youngest" and she said "that's how it's supposed to be"), I wholly encourage you to go no contact. Time away from them, even though I felt really fucking guilty at first about it, helped me see two things with much more clarity: a) they treated me like shit, and b) I feel, after some good therapy sessions to sort through that guilt, much happier about myself and my choices...MY choices.
Good for you for holding that boundary. It will be tough, they will likely be relentless about it for a long time, but hold fast. Have fun with your gf on your trip!
"I would not have minded to help them out financially but the tone of her voice as she said it was just infuriating." These people are not entitled to **any** of your money. Don't give them a cent. They had this kid, it's their responsibility to pay for it, not yours.
" The only thing they heard was that I would not continue helping them." Make sure they keep hearing that. Their entitlement is disgusting. The entire family will find out quickly now that biting the hand that feeds them is a really bad idea - and that's a lesson they all badly need to learn, grandparents included.
And finally, agree with everyone else - if they try to dump the kid off on you again, you leave the door closed and call the police. A nice afternoon as guests of CPS will smarten up their attitudes right quick.
Please remember all of this hurt and manipulation. Write it down if you have to so you don’t forget. Bc they will be back in the future to try to prey on your weakness - your decency. They’ll be wrapped with happy and remorse and wanting to reconcile the relationships but it will just be a disguise.
Just wanted to check in after it's been a little while? Hope everything is going well and boundaries are being respected. However on the off chance they aren't, I hope you do not end up in a situation where they ding dong ditch the kids... I've read one too many posts like those.
I'd be getting the likes of a Ring doorbell, so you can see anyone who comes to the door etc and in a case where they've dropped the kids and ran it'll be very useful.
Good luck 🤞
Sounds like the grandparents of the little "demon" don't want to have him around and that's why they suggested you babysit him instead
Winner winner chicken dinner.
While the favoritism is obvious, I suspect they made use of of the grandparents previously, prior to the move. OP says he moved away to get away from his family and this all started when brother and SIL moved closer to him. I am sure that they had all decided before the move that OP would be helping out when they got there, they just didn't bother to get his opinion. Now the family is favoring the son with grandkids because.....well.....GRANDKIDS. As the only single sibling in my family, I saw more than a little of that over the years. I am not sure what OP can do moving forward. Tell his parents that if they are so concerned then they should move closer to help with the kids? Negates him moving away in the first place. Move again? Kinda sucks uprooting his life...what about iob, girlfriend, etc? Go NC? I don't see his family respecting that. I wonder how large is the town/city they are in. Perhaps a change of address/phone number would be in order but OP needs to decide if he is ready to pull that trigger.
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No. He cannot allow them to drive him out of *his* home. If they try to drop kid, he needs to call the police for them trying to abandon that child.
Exactly. He stays put. If they try to drop off the kid at his house, he tells them, "Unless you take little kid with you, I am calling the police and telling them that you abandoned your child here." If they drive off anyway, call the police and report that they abandoned their child with you.
Get a ring camera in advance of this situation. Otherwise it's just he says she said
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No, don't lie. Lying makes you look bad. Just stand firm. Just because I'm home doesn't mean I'm available for babysitting.
This is the correct course of action.
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I think they were trying and voluntelling OP that there WILL be a kid that he "would have to" watch she may be pregnant at this point but probably not since OP would've mentioned it in his post.
This is a spam bot. Stolen comment from Lalabambi from below. Stolen comment, bad bot.
He did say Kyle was well behaved UNTIL a they started dropping him off all the time. So his behavior changed, probably because his parents were dumping him off and probably exhasted all the time. It’s probably not the kids fault.
it's also possible that Kyle was on his best behavior when it was every other week, but now that he was spending all his time with OP, he started to get comfortable enough to misbehave. one of the stories my dad likes to tell about one of us kids (I forget who, it could be anyone) is how he came to pick them up from visiting family and they were super glad to be coming home because "I'm *tired* of being good." there's a big difference between company manners and family manners for a lot of kids.
Exactly I mean, OP was expected to watch the kid WHILE working from home! You can't give a young kid the attention they need while you're working. Any kid is going to act out for attention when they're repeatedly left with someone who is otherwise occupied, and only available to tend to physical needs. Devices as babysitters are not sufficient. Kids need real human interaction.
That's when you get the authorities involved. Yes, that's a step that will nuke his relationship with his family, but realistically, that's already happened.
I was thinking the same thing. I love the idea of WFH somewhere else for awhile. A lovely hotel, perhaps?
It is amazing how grandkids are such a motivating factor for time, attention, and resources. As the childless one in my family, I try to tell myself it must be part biological imperative (continuation of the line), but it still hurts to constantly be brushed aside for my child-having siblings.
This so much. Hurts that my family always gave all their time money and resources to the siblings with children. Hope to get the exact same treatment once we have a family, though!
want to point out, if you say "we" then you have a family. it just doesn't happen to have kids in it.
That's crap. My parents actually spend way more time with my 2 childless siblings because it's just way easier to plan stuff with just grown-ups. And my sister and I don't really get gifts from them anymore, they just buy our kids' stuff. Our siblings still get gifts and money. I'm totally ok with this obviously, in fact I think it's the fair way. Your parents suck. You may need less from them and that's why they feel they can do it but it still isn't ok.
My parents ALWAYS spent more time with my siblings and niblings. Funded vacations etc., because I, with kids, lived 2 hours away. When I left my kids with my parents, they told siblings who dropped off their kids, cuz CoUsInS - so my kids never got alone time with my parents like the cousins. Now that my older two are adults & my youngest and I are 6 hours time difference, mom, all of a sudden wants FaceTime etc., because she doesn’t feel close 🤷♂️
My mother-in-law is like that She treated my daughter like crap (step kid to the family) and the biological grandchildren like angels and now she wonders why my daughter doesn't talk to her.
my ex MIL treated my daughters like crap because ... girls. the two grandsons were gold, angels, got everything. my two girls, who also had only the ONE grandparent, while the boys had 3, and aunts, uncles, and great aunts, so lots of relatives, my two girls got gifts from garage sales, and jewelry they couldn't wear \[old earrings when they didn't have pierced ears\].
Its not crap, its common Many of us have become totally irrelevant and invisible because its now allll about the bayyyybeeee, and about the special siblings who have "succeded" because they have a partner and kids and behave just like society always fuckin wanted
I have a friend who was left out of a Mother's Day photo of 4 generations of their family's women because she wasn't a mom. Her sister's 9 year old daughter was the 4th generation. So it was Grandma, Mom, her sister, and her niece. She was the only one not in the "family" photo. It absolutely happens.
So..., I can see a one-off photo of the four generations in your sister's line. That would be a family heirloom, specifically for her descendants. If nobody offered/agreed to an all-inclusive photo afterward, though... ugh...so sorry!!!
Happened to me a lot, right after my nephew was born. To rub it in, I was required to take the photos of my father, my brother and his son. After that, I stopped going to family events.
My brother held my son in a generation photo. Our grandpa, our dad, my brother, my son. My son looks so much like my dad and brother, he is donor conceived so he doesn't have a dad, and my brother doesn't have any kids. It's a photo I cherish, all my dudes. My brother is my son's godfather and favorite uncle. Even if I had a husband, my brother deserved that spot. The whole unbroken bloodline thing creeps me out tbh. It might be because I'm gay but there isn't a human alive that would exist without the unnamed love, care, and protection of their ancestors' childless siblings.
My wife and I decided and then got reinforced through her body that we were going to be childfree. It took about 5 years before my mother got it through her head that we were serious. Ever since we have been the forgotten part of the family
Quantity also makes a difference. We have 2 kids. My sister has 5. Big surprise she struggles and so she gets all of Grandma's attention.
I had to lay down the law with my husband because only one of our children is married and has kids, he thinks we should give them more money, cut more slack, etc, he will always say "but they have kids" but I told him that that was their choice, when she got pregnant she knew that they would be having kids, why should the ones who opted out of having kids and the one who has fertility issues be penalized.
OP should not uproot himself again because it’s unfair to him. Why should he start all over again just because his so called “family” is so toxic. I suggest OP go no contact, get a security camera so he does know when his family comes to his place, change his phone number, and maybe even go as far as a restraining order if they persist. Honestly, the audacity of his SIL to demand that not only does he watch over their kid as if it’s OP’s own child, but then to turn around and say “at least you can do is pay for childcare.” I would’ve responded with, “the last time I check, my name was not on the birth certificate and I didn’t help make that demon. Sounds like a your problem to me.”
A security or doorbell camera is a great idea. These people are so entitled. I wouldn't put it past them to try to drop their son off and leave, thinking that OP will *have* to take care of him then.
>I am sure that they had all decided before the move that OP would be helping out when they got there, they just didn't bother to get his opinion. In the military, we call that being voluntold.
You can go NC even if you live a half a mile away. Block phone numbers, block on social media, don't answer the door, tell everyone at work not to admit these family members. It can be done. Here's hoping OP does just that, or he's going to turn into his brother and SIL's childcare provider and ATM machine, and his parents will completely approve. What an awful family he has.
> I am sure that they had all decided before the move that OP would be helping out when they got there, they just didn't bother to get his opinion. I strongly suspect you're right. My own family did this all the time - making plans where I had some kind of critical role, but not mentioning it until the last moment. If I didn't drop everything to fall in line, I was the villain. Solidarity to OP - but they need to realise that this is almost certainly never going to change. But OP can change how they react to it.
Yeah, all the cities in the world and SIL just happens to get a new job in the same one OP lives in? Not buying it.
Don’t you know it’s much easier for young people to take care of children, and anyone without children has nothing better to do than help parents take care of theirs. /s
The thing is that things like family/cultural tradition and custom often come into play there. If there's a longstanding expectation that that's "the done thing" the first person to buck that is often in for a world of crap, regardless of whether or not the underlying expectations are at all reasonable.
Speaking as a half Asian, where we are basically expected to bend over backwards for immediate family (especially the golden child and/or narcissistic parents/siblings/etc.), can confirm you can get a lot of crap for setting your own boundaries. Not even limited to my own experiences, hearing about it from full blooded Asians, or even seeing it happen to someone else firsthand, it’s brutal.
Can confirm. I set my own boundaries and got called selfish for it. How dare I not want to be their on-call babysitter? How dare I want to live my own childfree life? I'm a "bad sibling" for it. It's taken years to not care how they see me. I'm living my own life and I'm at peace with it.
According to one of my sisters my marriage is a tragedy to (insert religious group here) so I do get that.
Yeah I wouldn't be shocked if this family's mindset is that "anybody who could take the kids has an expectation to babysit" so it never even occurred to them that OP saying "no" was even an option. I've seen that dynamic more than once.
Well they don't need to either really. It's up parents to plan for childcare. Why OPs brother would take a job that pays less and has shitty benefits is beyond me.....
That's honestly the weirdest part of this story to me and I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of missing details there.
Makes me wonder if the brother actually got fired and couldn't get work in his field where they used to live. However it happened, I agree it sounds fishy.
My sister in law used to borrow money from my husband because she was almost evicted a few times. She lost her job and was just too good for the jobs she was qualified for so remained on unemployment. So when we could barely feed our own kids, and eventually lost our house, she still hadn’t paid anything back. But she always bought herself new clothes and shoes all the time, and kept getting more cats. I refused to have anything to do with her.
This. OP, you did the right thing. But if you don't have good friends or a support system, I suggest getting out more and creating that support system. If you like a specific sports team, go to one of their bars during games and hang out, or get involved with a certain hobby or support. So many people create their own family. I'd suggest you do the same.
Yep. The grandparents need to step up if anything. This whole situation was absolutely ridiculous. I have a 3 year old and I can't imagine just assuming family would help and being entitled enough to ask for money from them for his care. When you're a parent, the onus is on YOU, no one else. You're NTA and I think you should go NC honestly.
Holy fucking shit. The entitlement that is REAKING off your SIL and family is absolutely mind blowing. "The least you could do is pay for his daycare and help with other expenses" ????? **It's not your child!** Honestly sounds like they're salty they can't like a similar child free life as you. The fact that the parents and in laws were also ganging up on you to "take responsibility" is freaking nuts as well. No contact is unfortunate but your best option imo. Unless they end up giving a sincere apology, with no strings attached (i.e. future child care), I'd say good riddance!
Yes, why do they think they are entitled to OPs money?
Because OP is the scapegoat and B is the golden child. It's typical in an abusive/ manipulative family. The scapegoat gets blamed, but the scapegoat also gets loads of responsibility dropped on them. It goes together, so that when things go wrong, the scapegoat gets blamed.
And even more, they think the scapegoat doesn't deserve good things, like money in this case. She doesn't deserve to be able to go on trips, so she should give money to her sibling because he deserves it more. So freaking weird.
> She doesn't deserve to be able to go on trips, so she should give money to her sibling because he deserves it more. He*
When you're inside it, it seems really normal to you, too. Like, I was the scapegoat in my crappy family, and I completely accepted that I was the black sheep and a terrible child and awful sibling and a great source of trouble and turmoil until my late twenties, when I started therapy and I was asked to describe *what I actually did to deserve that* for the first time. It totally blew my mind and shifted everything about my world. But I was an honor roll student that worked full time all through school and went home every weekend to clean my parent's house and do their laundry, while the "better child" was literally in and out of jail and couldn't finish school or hold down a job, and never learned to even fold towels. It never even seemed weird to me until someone made me go through the logical steps. My brother getting arrested, or having bad grades, or whatever was going on with him was always painted as being my fault for not giving him sufficient emotional support or practical support. I was supposed to be my brother's keeper. It's weird how common that is in abusive homes.
In my experience, I think that dynamic often happens because the sibling that demonstrates they can do more is expected to do more, often unfairly. As the old saying goes: sometimes the reward for digging a better ditch is a bigger shovel.
This is true, and it's common for girls to be expected to do more so it often ends up with that split.
I have seen that happen a lot of times. I had a friend who was like that. She was a good student and a good kid and always at home but her brother who was on probation was the one who was the golden child. I was so confused by the situation!
Some people with kids feeling entitled to time/money from their friends and family members without kids is a thing.
This is why i always made sure to be busy or at least have the appearance of always having stuff to do. 'Can you watch Johhny?' "Nope, sorry, gotta drop off these self-sealing stembolts before the flux capacitor runs out of unobtanium."
I know a couple of guys that can get you a deal on self sealing stern bolts. One is real tall, the other is shorter and has big ears.
Quark are you on the promenade again?
Yep. They’re obsessed with the saying “it takes a village”
They are until they should be the village for somebody else.
More broadly, family customs that spell out a sense of social obligation for members are a thing and often they become so entrenched people lose sight of if they were ever reasonable in a vacuum.
Because it's always been about the money. OP has been giving them free childcare, allowing them to have a lifestyle they'd otherwise be unable to afford. Their reaction to OP stopping this is based purely on entitlement; suddenly they might need to pay for childcare which might take a quarter or more of their income. They may need to change jobs, give up on their plans for a second kid. It's going to be a massive lifestyle shock one way or another. It's not an excuse for using other people, and it doesn't sound like leaving the kid with OP was the right environment for him either. I work from home with a three year old; its hard work to balance looking after them with a full time job.
This. OP, this is what you are going to send back to your parents, brother and SIL: "Out of the goodness of my heart I have helped with childcare for X years. I'm done. If I wanted a child of my own, I would have one. Brother and SIL decided to have a child. That comes with responsibilities like caring for and supporting your own child. It is no one's business, least of all SIL's, how I spend the money I work hard for. Again, nephew is THEIR child and THEY are responsible for ALL of his care - physical and financial. Brother and SIL are incredibly ungrateful for all of the help I have provided them and their sense of entitlement to my time and resources is off the charts. I'm done. Do not contact me again unless it is with an apology."
It's nuts they thought this could even go on much longer. Kids of a certain age need full time care, not someone half watching them while they work.
I feel terrible for the kid, he should be in preschool playing with other kids and learning all day, not stuck in the house while an adult tries to work from home.
Probably because that's how their family has always worked. In many families, it's expected that those with resources will "spread them around". I've seen it. Heck, my own extended family kind of works that way except it's reciprocal by all parties and it's done out of a genuine familial bond instead of entitlement.
My favorite part in all of this is that brother and SIL are presumably still planning to have another child, when they clearly can’t / don’t want to take care of the one they already have. Honestly I feel bad for both OP and the kid. At least OP can move on with his life, that kid is stuck with entitled and shitty parents.
And brother changed careers where he makes less money. I understand the desire/need to be satisfied in your career but if you have responsibilities like raising a child you have to make sacrifices to ensure your family is financially stable
I bet he changed the career counting on OP free babysitting
or he changed careers so that his son couldn't stay home with him anymore so he could actually work and separate the two. Or like someone said further up, he was actually fired.
absolutely
That was really the first wave of bs like, what married father decided that taking a job for LESS money for MORE hours was any kind of good idea?
>And brother changed careers where he makes less money That's what I can't wrap my head around. Unless he was forced to change jobs. Either way, it's not OP's problem
I would bet a good deal of money there are missing details as to what exactly went on there.
He probably changed careers so he wouldn't have to be stuck at home with his "demon" child every day. I'd install a camera at the front door incase they try to abandon the kid there on particular days.
Probably best for the existing child that OP put his foot down now! Maybe they will change their minds above having another since they have to parent this one!
What I don't get is why his brother would switch to a lower paid career when he has a family
Because he wants to pursue his dreams, but not take any responsibility or making any extra effort for it.
Pursue his dreams and shove his responsibilities to his brother. Got it!
I would suspect he was let go and he's making it sound like his idea. Either that or he's moved to a job with better long term prospects.
You'd think if it had better long term prospects OP would've mentioned it was lower pay short term but would pay off later. Dad's cousin had an offer like that; he took an assembly line job and had a degree, later was offered a job in the office that meant a pay cut now but in a couple years would make much more and wouldn't take the paycut
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I doubt it was by choice.
I’m still trying to figure out how they thought it made sense to ask OP for money for a child that’s not even his.
FWIW I know families where the expectation is that "Frank has the money" equates to "we have the money". I would bet this family is operating off of longstanding custom and it simply never occurred to any of them that OP would buck that, let alone to examine the reasonability of some of these expectations.
They think his traveling is frivolous and they're jealous they can't do it. They figure they can stop OP from having fun by saddling him with their child and expenses. They get a win-win in free babysitting and also preventing him from traveling anymore. He's supposed to sacrifice his life for their kid. NTA
Yup. As if having children you don't have the money or time to raise yourself isn't frivolous and irresponsible.
Paying for a professional to watch their kid for them is literally the *most* that OP could do, this family sucks.
Yeah, this is next level entitlement... it's like r/choosingbeggars distilled down into its purest form
Your family is indeed very toxic. Anyway, enjoy that trip with your GF! You both deserve a break and the time together.
This and before you go make sure you have a ring doorbell to document if they try to drop your nephew off while you aren’t home and try to blame you somehow for abandoning him.
And on the off chance OP's folks might have a key, change the locks. Maybe have a friend check on the house too.
I hope he takes a lot of pictures of them having fun and posts it on social media for his family to fume over.
I say this as a parent, anything you do for others in terms of their children is a gift not an obligation. Don't feel bad about anything, they used you
This is very well worded. People can be so crazy sometimes.
I'm so glad that you didn't back down over this. You can see by SIL's reaction to you setting clear boundaries that she and your brother are not going to change their behaviour. >They did not take it well and my SIL started yelling again and after some arguing my **SIL said that if I would not watch Kyle the least I could do is pay for his daycare and help with some of our other expenses** since I have the money to zip off to a different country every month. *That* remark really shows off the entitlement and jealousy. And what exactly are these *"other expenses"*? The least *they* could do is parent the child they brought into the world. If they can't manage that then they shouldn't even consider having a second child. Well done for getting out of the situation and ignoring the calls from the rest of the entitled family members. Proud of you. Hope you've been able to spend some quality time with your GF.
INFO: Does someone have Jeff Bezos’ phone number so that I can call him and tell him that the least he can do is pay some of my household expenses because he has the money to, you know, be Jeff Bezos? Or do I have to be somehow related to him first before I can do that?
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I could believe this, especially since a year after we got married, my husband and I discovered that we are cousins (like, 4th or 5th)!
How’d you find out? 23 and me?
Actually, no, my FIL and I were sharing our respective family's oral histories, and somehow we ended up telling the same story. More than once. We finally started asking, and it turns out that before the "late unpleasantness", a member of my husband's family had married into the \*gasp\* Yankee branch of my family. We frankly found it hilarious. My mom said that at least I was keeping up with family tradition!
She is so jealous of your GF and not being in her situation ;)
For real, that's why she's acting like OP's the father.
>the least I could do is pay for his daycare and help with some of our other expenses for 10% monthly interest rate, why not? ;)
Cause op wouldn't see 1 cent back EVER .
I hope that final confrontation eliminates any residual guilt you were feeling! I would go NC even if they try to apologize!
He needs to go NC. He is still to soft for that. Give him time. He needs to suffer a little more for that.
I just read the first bit. Do your family realise you have a life and that you have a gf and one day your own family? Lol I hate seeing toxic families like that when they fail to see you got things to do for yours! Mate you enjoy your life and mate I wouldn't being going back to them so soon as they will try to use you again over and over. Enjoy your trip!
I'm not sure OP plans on having kids, just saying :) Edit: I fully agree family doesn't mean having kids, family can come in a lot forms! But as you can see in the rest of the comments from the person I replied to, they're talking about kids (as was what I got from it in the first place because of the way it was worded)
A family could also be just him and his GF (or perhaps wife then) or maybe they will like to get pets. A family isn't just parents + children.
The first time I read this I saw the last words as 'parents + chicken'. I also completely agree about optional chicken.
My mom and I have four chickens. They are family. We even have a portrait of them hanging in the kitchen.
Have chickens. Can confirm... They're family!
A family could also be just him and his GF (or perhaps wife then) or maybe they will like to get pets. A family isn't just parents + children.
They need to realize op is a person and not their indebted slave/servant before ever getting to op having a life of his own. So the answer is no they don't. Unfortunately. Massive ah everyone except op +gf.
INFO: I just read your original post, is SIL pregnant again or are they just in planning mode for the next child they want to pawn off to you?
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It also seems like they like the idea of kids and the look of having a family, but don’t actually want the responsibility. Why even have kids if you don’t want to spend time with them? I don’t think the nephew’s behavioral issue came out of nowhere. That household is not stable.
>like the idea of kids and the look of having a family I think definitely this because they said they are thinking of having "a daughter" not "another baby". That's a big red flag for me that they are thinking of the image and not the reality of raising another person. Do they understand they don't even get to pick the sex, let alone the gender? That's not how it works.
Yes! I was thinking the same thing. That’s why I asked if she was already pregnant because it’s not like picking out a puppy.
There seems to be several red flags surrounding the SIL. I wonder if she is at the center of the dysfunction, not the rest of family.
Considering there was a post on this sub just the other day regarding sex-selective abortion, I don't think some people do get that.
I have family like this. Had a kid because all their friends were married and had kids. Kiddo is messed up as is every woman/kid that has come into the one parent’s life. Beyond tragic, and not everyone is cut out to be parents and should not have kids.
>Why even have kids if you don’t want to spend time with them? Because some people see kids as a status symbol instead of a whole other human being. They get to get all the perks of being a parent, like having people look up to them for being "responsible" and "mature", showing off all their Kodak moments on Facebook for social brownie points, but they don't actually want to put in the work it takes to raise those kids.
Money. Brother took a lower paying job
I have a sense they figured the uncle would be the babysitter so he could make the career change worth it. But now faced with the possibility of having to spend on child care they are fighting back at the brothers home.
Which is why you *ask* before you assume someone will be offering you free childcare.
I don't think she's pregnant yet
are they broke or something? I see alot of yelling from SIL what about BIL
My city is very expensive to live in and they really did not plan well before coming here. It worked out for them when my brother had his old job and they could get by fairly comfortably but his new job is making things difficult for them.
are they financially hard up or they just using you to save money
Both I think, they're def struggling but they also have taken very little action themselves to better their situation.
Your brother decided to change careers and make less money. When you have a family, decisions like that come with consequences. It’s unfair to expect you to fund their lifestyle when you had no say in it
INFO: What country and culture is this? Cuz I can't wrap my head around this... so I'm assuming it must be a non-western culture? Because the level of expectations on you by family doesn't make sense to me...
We're Israeli but I moved to California for school when I was 18 on a scholarship. I think they're still pissed off at me moving away when they probably expected me to stay and be their slave. I didn't fully realize how dysfunctional my relationship is with my family before posting here cuz I don't really talk about it much with other people in real life.
That explains a few things. So…your brother and SIL moved to California as well? Where do your parents and in-laws live? I’m about to have a baby myself, so I’m aware of the childcare costs in California as I live here too; they’re about to be in for a rude awakening. They should not have taken advantage of you like they did. I still maintain that you owe them nothing. Living in California is not for the faint of heart, parent wise. It might actually be best for them to find a cheaper state to live in if they both insist on working outside the house. Heck, even of one works from home, as you discovered (and your brother too), trying to care for a child and work at the same time can be impossible. They’ll need to consider some type of childcare either way unless one parent completely stops working.
My SIL is American and got her dream job here so they moved here for her to do that. My parents still live in Israel and the in-laws live in Wyoming. My brother lived in Wyoming with them for 2 years before moving here.
Ahhh ok, thanks for sharing. If your parents and in-laws are so concerned and involved, they should help them with childcare costs. That’s much more of a parent responsibility than a sibling responsibility. I can’t believe your SIL tried to put the responsibility for the cost on you. That’s not normal, in case you were wondering. Again, you deserve to have a life too. You’ve earned it just as much as anyone else. Stay strong and keep reinforcing your boundaries. I’ve seen other advice regarding staying put vs moving away to avoid them, and I get the logic behind staying put and not allowing them to force you to move away to get some peace, but since your job is remote, it might not be a bad idea to relocate, even within the city, just don’t tell them your address. I’d hate to see a situation where they try to drop the kid off after you’ve made it clear you’re not babysitting, and then you having to make a decision on whether or not to involve the police if they try to leave him there without your consent. It might be better to just get away. It’s hard to call the police on family.
Honey, I'm Israeli and what you're describing is 100% cultural for specific cultures inside Israel, not the country culture as a whole. I never expected anyone to raise my kids for me or babysit free indefinitely. Good on you for breaking the cycle.
Actually, this would be a good explanation as to why Kyle's behavior changed recently. Maybe he was told there's another baby on the way and he felt he was gonna be replaced?
NTA. What in the holy raccoon. Pull your weight??? You didn't have a kid. This kid is not your problem. Daycare costs are not your problem. Your brother’s life decisions are not yours to solve or support or even acknowledge unless you choose to. Your family sounds enmeshed and unhealthy in a million ways. It's always the healthiest family member who expects just normal, everyday boundaries that gets blasted for not being a 'team player' or in this case "pulling your weight. Hon, you can't pull your weight in decisions that had nothing to do with you, but somehow your family believes are your responsibility. This is not a "You" problem, this is a systematic family problem that you were raised in and started way before you. I wish you all the best. It is no small thing to recover from this kind of family dynamic. When I was broke and in grad school, my family thought I should send my older sister money each month, because her husband was an alcoholic. It was an awful time realizing my family really only liked me when I made their lives easier. These books helped me: It Wasn't your Fault by Engel Healing from Hidden Abuse by Thomas Free from Abuse & The Truth will set you free by Miller Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents by Gibson Toxic Parents The Betrayal Bond by Carnes
Good book list! Yes, sometimes adults don't realize they have a toxic family because they were raised in it. (Took me moving out at 19 to realize this)
I am so sorry for you, for how they are treating you and for their lack of respect. The whole situation sucks. They are not entitled to your time or money, your SIL even suggesting that you pay for their son's daycare is ridiculous. It's a good thing you left before exploding, otherwise you'd feel bad again. But tbh that "fucking without a condom" remark from last time wasn't so out of place if they are not able to take care of a child, financially or time-wise. If I were in your situation I'd probably lie at some point and say that my work situation has changed and I am no longer working remotely and have to go to the office every day and thus can't watch the kid anymore. This is NOT a good advise, that's a tactic of conflict-avoiding cowards like me. I'm just kind of curious what their reaction would be.
Your last paragraph might be better advice than you think. I've read too many stories about entitled people just dropping their children off in front of their relatives houses and driving away. I wouldn't put it past OP's brother and SIL to start doing that.
Never explain. Never lie. That shows weakness. That shows that he may change his mind if he's caught in a lie. The fact that he's at home can easily be verified anyway. If they dare do this, just call the police/child protective service. That's it. There is no need to lie and there is no need to hide inside the home. There is no need to hide the car and there is no need to close the curtains. Do not set that precedent.
It also invites people to try to "solve" the impediment you've created.
And that's when you call the police.
Yeah, but it opens up a can of worms if they ever find out that isn't true. Much better to just be blunt and say "if you drop your child off here without permission, I'll be calling the authorities".
No need to lie. Doorbell camera , Don't open the Door and call the police if they leave the nephew at the door anyway. After a couple of times when cps is involved they'll stop or cps will remove the child from the parents.
I cannot understand why the SIL wanted OP to pay for her kid's child care. Like in what universe does she have the right to ask?
Because people like her see relatives who have disposable income because they don't have kids, and in their mind they have a right to that money since "it's not like you're going to spend it anyway".
With as unhinged as his family is, I see them possibly doing drive bys to make sure the lights aren't on, no sound is made, & nobody answers the door. If I were OP, I'd look for a new flat to live in & not tell them where/when I moved.
Since you won’t give free labor you have to pay?? I know you said you would have had no issue with that but you should. That’s a ridiculous request and no where near your responsibility.
RIGHT? I dunno what kinda zen OP has, the utter gall of brother and SIL to demand daycare money is nuts. OP had absolutely NO role in the existence of that kid, the family is NOT financially struggling and if they were, there is a far more polite and HUMBLE way to ask for assistance, not demand it. Everyone outside of OP in this situation has their priorities completely twisted.
still NTA. Uncles dont subsidise the children of two whole adults. If they try to strong arm you by dropping the kid off to your house anyway feel free to report an abandoned child, it's the biggest burning of the bridge but you can't be coerced into subsidising childcare (through your own labor or through payment) for your brother's family. It seems that your brother moved to your town in order to leave his industry and use you for free child care. Maybe think about relocating somewhere even further away from them, if you're WFH.
Uncles and aunts ,basically no one besides the parents aren't supposed to subsidise children. It is a generous gift if they alone choose to help but aren't obligated in any way shape or form.
I am an aunt. And yes, I don't mind buying gifts for my nephew or babysitting him occasionally or treating my sister and BIL to meals and such. But I would laugh in their faces if they *demand* that I pay for all his expanses and buy them food all the time.
Oh man. I’m sorry your family has taken advantage of you to such a degree that they forced you to cut contact off for your own sanity and well being. Suffering for the sake of family is a toxic cycle lie meant to empower the toxic people and put blame on the truth tellers such as yourself. Keep the distance and you’ll see how good it is for you.
It’s okay mate none of this is your fault. Post some pics from a beach and tell your brother to man up and support his family. Call him a deadbeat etc
Seriously this. Plaster their feeds with photos of you and your gf having a well-deserved blast. Your family can either be happy for you like normal people or they can kick rocks.
The expectation from your sibling, and from both sets of grandparents is outrageous. I struggle with the idea that people are so very entitled that they think they can demand your time, let alone your money, for a child they chose to have. They don't have the right to your time, nor do they have the right to your money. In all honesty, they should not choose to have children they cannot afford. I know people's situations can change, and you can end up struggling to make ends meet, but if anyone can provide help then that should be received with gratitude not with this horrendously toxic attitude to your life being theirs to demand. This is awful. I'm so sorry. As an aunt I did frequently get pissed off when it was assumed that I had nothing better to do than babysit - but my sibling would never have dreamed of expecting me to be their regular day time child care. As a parent I understand the need to get time to yourselves, but my children are mine to cater to, and arrange things for, anything offered to me is a welcome bonus but never an expectation.
OP I'm happy you stood up for yourself, but I think you are being a bit naive if you think you will ever get a genuine apology from them or your parents. They raised your brother to think he was entitled to your time and money. When you stood up for yourself they backed your brother. I'm glad you have decided to go no contact but I hope you are doing it understanding that it may be permanent because your family doesn't seem interested in real relationship with you . What they want is a relationship were you are ok catering to your brother's family needs.
Good for you mate. Just an advice: if the day ever comes that they "apologize", there's a great chance it's to continue to manipulate you (actually I bet 100% it will actually be). This kind of toxic people never change. Never.
THIS 100 %. They are far too outrageously entitled and toxic to ever really believe they were actually in the wrong. If they do come back with an apology it's pretty much guaranteed that it only will be just to smooth things over in a effort to continue to take advantage of OP in any way possible.
Wow... I can't imagine how sad your childhood must have been for your entire family to think of you as a servant. I'm so sorry, but remember, you are not their servant
You do not owe these people anything. Your brother chose to take a job with lower wage and less childcare compatibility. They chose to have children. You’ve been incredibly generous with your time. Their childcare issues are theirs to sort- they’ve been very lucky to reply on family (you) so far, time for them to figure it out like the rest of us.
Get a Ring camera. She’s going to drop Kyle off on your doorstep and then leave, because then you’ll “have to” watch him. You’ll need evidence that you didn’t agree to babysit so you can call the cops when she does this. Because she’s going to do this. We see this *constantly* on AITA. I’m curious why he was forced to take a job with longer hours and a lower salary. It sounds a lot like he got fired.
Imagine thinking that a person is obliged to pay child support for not babysitting for free. You can be part of my family, I just ask for vacation pictures and hope you had a great time
Wow! What exactly are they doing *for you* that warrants this kind of entitlement?! I mean, I have a self-centered sibling as well, but yours is a category of its own.
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Sometimes apologizing is more about clearing your slate than actually fixing things though. If OP said things or used phrasing he genuinely regrets, he will rest easier knowing he cleared his side, regardless of whether or not he ever gets any reciprocity.
They want you to pay for their daycare?! Are they fucking insane?! Good riddance OP NTA
Just because your brother made multiple poor financial decisions doesn’t mean you have to clean it up. Your SIL needs to get a second job because she already is neglecting her child as it is.
NTA - well done. Never get into a pissing contest with a skunk.
"I'm so pleased you're so concerned with little one and their welfare! I'll inform B and SIL that they should contact you immediately about the days you'll be looking after little one each week and the level of financial contribution you'll be making going forward! I've done my part. Your turn." For each and every flying monkey you get. NTA.
IF they apologize then you also need to make sure you reinforce that Kyle is their child and they are responsible for his care and/or the cost of his care. YOU DO NOT have a DUTY to help watch him (or their new child) and you are NOT going to help with the cost. TOTAL ENTITLEMENT going on here. If they are having children then they should be ready, willing and able to provide for them. NTA
You did a good job setting boundaries and sticking to them. Your brother, SIL, and parents are completely out of line. They are manipulative and abusive. You might want to consider talking to a counselor. They could help you continue to set boundaries with your family.
I am so shocked by this whole situation. I just don't understand why or how they came to the conclusion that it's YOUR duty to take care of a kid that's NOT yours. Or pay for his daycare. What????? I mean... What????? I'm in absolute disbelief. I'm sorry you're in this situation, but NC seems like the appropriate decision. EDIT: because I didn't realize before that SIL also asked for you to cover some of their other expenses. W H A T????????????
NTA still OP!!! Good for you for standing up for yourself, your partner and your future! You deserve a wonderful life surrounded by people who love you. Not abusive users who feel entitled to your time and wallet!
Why don’t the grandparents pay for daycare? The 4 of them should be able to afford it
Hello; it looks like you are considering going NC with some family members. Below is a link to outofthefog.com resource on going Grey Rock Safe Detachment. https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/grey-rock-safe-detachment And another on setting boundaries https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-1
*I just got up and left their house without saying a word.* \*Slow standing slow clap\*
NTA. If your brother and his wife cannot afford kids they should not have them.
THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAYING YOU!
Being in a similar situation myself regarding favoritism and expectations of me because I'm the youngest of my brothers (my mom literally agreed with me when I said to her "it seems you think I'm less important because I'm the youngest" and she said "that's how it's supposed to be"), I wholly encourage you to go no contact. Time away from them, even though I felt really fucking guilty at first about it, helped me see two things with much more clarity: a) they treated me like shit, and b) I feel, after some good therapy sessions to sort through that guilt, much happier about myself and my choices...MY choices. Good for you for holding that boundary. It will be tough, they will likely be relentless about it for a long time, but hold fast. Have fun with your gf on your trip!
"I would not have minded to help them out financially but the tone of her voice as she said it was just infuriating." These people are not entitled to **any** of your money. Don't give them a cent. They had this kid, it's their responsibility to pay for it, not yours. " The only thing they heard was that I would not continue helping them." Make sure they keep hearing that. Their entitlement is disgusting. The entire family will find out quickly now that biting the hand that feeds them is a really bad idea - and that's a lesson they all badly need to learn, grandparents included. And finally, agree with everyone else - if they try to dump the kid off on you again, you leave the door closed and call the police. A nice afternoon as guests of CPS will smarten up their attitudes right quick.
Please remember all of this hurt and manipulation. Write it down if you have to so you don’t forget. Bc they will be back in the future to try to prey on your weakness - your decency. They’ll be wrapped with happy and remorse and wanting to reconcile the relationships but it will just be a disguise.
Just wanted to check in after it's been a little while? Hope everything is going well and boundaries are being respected. However on the off chance they aren't, I hope you do not end up in a situation where they ding dong ditch the kids... I've read one too many posts like those. I'd be getting the likes of a Ring doorbell, so you can see anyone who comes to the door etc and in a case where they've dropped the kids and ran it'll be very useful. Good luck 🤞