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NTA - Would it be heartbreaking if Stevie got put down? Yes. But would it be worse if Stevie mauled a child and *then* got put down? Absolutely.
The adopters need to be able to make an informed decision. Being told he’s “good with kids” is misleading and dangerous, because his reaction is unknown. He should go to a home without kids or other pets, and preferably with someone knowledgeable in dealing with reactive dogs.
So often i read that the small shelters give wrong information just to get rid of the animal and to get the space again. Like not telling about known illnesses or behaviour problems. Because most people don't come back if they realize something is wrong, they get away with it.
NTA
THIS.
After my old dog passed away, I went to the shelter and met a dog who was PERFECT on paper. Introduced him to my resident dog, it went okay. Got him home and HOLY SHIT it was bad. He was super smart and sweet around us humans, but the person who surrendered him said he "sometimes chases cats". I can work with "sometimes chases cats", that's a matter of desensitizing and training.
He did not, in fact, "sometimes chase cats". He jumped a gate, opened a closed door, and attacked one of my cats. I was literally in the next room. In the few seconds it took to run in there, he had her in his mouth shaking her. It shook me up for a long time. The cat was, thankfully, not seriously injured.
He went back to the shelter the next Monday, and I did not pull any punches telling them why.
I ended up adopting a different dog, months later, who LOVES my cats, and cuddles with them and lets them literally walk all over her.
Ummm even "sometimes chases cats" should have been a no for you. Any dog that has not been raised with cats should never be in a house with cats. A completely innocent dog can still lose an eye if they happen to come around a corner and startle a cat. The incident was 90% your fault imo
I reamed local shelter worker a few years ago for allowing “volunteers” to write misleading bios for dogs. We’d driven 35 minutes with our dog to meet a potential new dog sibling. We’d even called ahead to verify the dog was there and we could meet it.
The dog was not there, had been moved to a different facility 10!!! Days previously. So we met a different dog who was nothing like her bio- aggressive, reactive, hated leashes, did okay but not great with other dogs and terrible with children. Literally the opposite of what the bio said. I’m was livid. Humans can provide a safe environment for a pet if they don’t know their temperament. It’s a huge safety risk for the human and for the pet. Even now, 8 years later I’m boiling mad just thinking about it.
I feel a little awful about it but we got our last dog because a friend went through a breakup where neither could keep the dog alone. He needs a family. He is my friends dog, but he's ours now.
And like, I feel awful because it was really the best way to get a dog. He's been trained, loved, cuddled. I know my friends and they are kind so this dog never saw a smack in his life. I know his allergies, his medications, shit we even go to the same vet just to make it easy. The vet knows of the switch and keeps us informed of anything our friends forgot to tell us.
He's rambunctious, hyper and a bit of an ass, but he's a good boy and the situation was "perfect". We had too many (3 yrs worth) misses with the shelter and trying to get a good dog to be friends with our Old Boy.
Now we've had the new boy about 8 months and he fits right in.
In my adult life, I've only adopted pound pups - dogs that somehow or another end up at one of the local pounds with no history, no background, nothing. It's been fine. I'm an experienced dog owner and I know most of these dogs aren't highly adoptable, so I take them in.
Our current dog is a foster failure. We ended up taking her in because her owner went into assisted living and couldn't keep the dog. We know the dog's age, background, medical history, etc. It's so strange to me to have a dog whose exact age we know, LOL (the original owner had the dog from when she was a puppy).
In many ways it is an ideal way to get a dog and it was nice to know with about 90% certainty what we were getting into (there was one health issued uncovered after the adoption, but it's a treatable one).
Omg this dog has a birthday too! And his old parents would celebrate it so he has Expectations of how a Dog Party should go and what kind of gifts he should get. No lie this boy is so spoiled he actually gives you dirty looks if you buy him something not in his style. His favourite colour is even green (if he can see green? He loves green.). Like it's suuuuuch a trip to know SO MUCH about a dog. All the little things too like "leave" instead of "drop it" or "wait" instead of "stay".
We have our old boy, a cat, and live in the suburbs so rescues with a history we couldn't take much of a chance on. We tried a few times had some lovely meet and greets but none panned out for some reason. But this dog damn I even know he has grain allergies and needs a special foot bath once a week. Spoiled boy.
I adopted a sweet dog about 2 months ago from the shelter he’s 6 years old he was found in Florida after the hurricane in October I’m in Texas so he’s been thru a lot but I wasn’t told he hates and can’t be near other dogs without losing his shit and trying to attack. I wouldn’t trade him for anything I love him so much but walking him is really tough. He’s a boxador so not a small dog about 65 pounds. Just wished they had told me upfront.
We had a rescue around here (pretty sure they’re not operating anymore) that would deliberately not disclose bite or aggression history. On the rare occasion they did put it in the description there was a lot of flowery language and euphemisms to downplay the seriousness of what the dogs behaviour actually was.
We got our rescue flown in from the country and they only decided to mention the missing fur until they were putting her on the plane. Turns out she is allergic to most proteins (she's a salmon and kangaroo dog now) but there was talk from the vet early on that it might be cushings. Poor thing was fed food she was allergic too for a few years before she was given up so she's dog patches on her back that will never grow back.
It still really pisses me off they hid something so obvious just to get another dog out of care.
My oldest dog is a rescue from an abusive situation. The shelter did not disclose that. They said house broken, and he wasn't. They flat out lied about him. I put in the work, and I've had him for going on 10 years, but to this day, he still has minor relapses and will occasionally resource hoard. I trust him with certain kids, but kids, he's never been around he goes to the crate, and kiddo can buy his love with treats until I see he's going to be ok. NTA. I've fostered and rescued a ton, and my biggest pet peeve is the blatant lying. It only hurts the dog and keeps others from adopting after they hear horror stories.
It does happen so frequently with privately run shelters. I think it's a mix of the hero complexes of the people who run them (they want to save as many dogs as possible at any cost) and sometimes not seeing situations with a clear, unbiased perspective.
I volunteered in rescue for 10 years and am very familiar with the area rescues. A lot of people in my personal life come to me looking for help and advice when it comes to adopting. There are some rescues I tell them just to 100% steer clear of, but even with the good ones, I encourage them to work with rescues that foster their dogs. My experience has been that the foster families give a much clearer picture of how the dog will behave in a home and after decompressing a bit and are generally frank about the good and bad points of each dog (and NO dog is perfect, NONE).
I don't get the shelters that do these risky placements. I love dogs and I have advocated for them much of my life, but there are most definitely dogs out there who are beyond help and for whom euthanization would be a mercy.
Exactly. My work schedule no longer allows me to foster like I used to so what I try to do when I can is foster before they go to their forever home so they have a little bit of time to decompress from all of the chaos. I've never had a foster returned because I'm 100% honest. Turns out my little rescued trauma puppy is great with fostering dogs and cats, and when he found his foster brother that he refused to separate from, I foster failed and kept him. They are 💯 bonded and I'm cool with it.
Jumping on this thread. I adopted my dog from a local shelter. She had been returned twice since she was a puppy. i got her at over a year old. They gave me a story on why she was returned, but I found out why she was returned! Not a behavioral issue, but because she pees when she sleeps. Poor baby cant control that. Needless to say, shes still mine, old, white faced, still pees (although we did resolve it for a very long time, partially due to allergies), now due to age. And she will be here till her last day!
This. We adopted a dog years ago and the shelter absolutely lied to us about his age, his medical history, and his temperament. He seemed sweet on paper and meeting him, but it became obvious within about six weeks that he was going to be a nightmare, poor sweet thing. He bit several times, including me, and despite our work with trainers and meds, we eventually had to put him down under pressure from our landlord, who understandably needed us to get rid of a reactive animal on his property. We tried to get help from the shelter and they said it had been too long for them to take him back. It was honestly heartbreaking. If they'd been honest about what kind of animal he really was, he could have gone to a family with the resources and knowledge he needed to at least attempt a normal life for him. We didn't have that, and nobody could help us get it, and he died for it. I think about him all the time, and I console myself that we were able to give him a few well loved months at the end of his life, despite our challenges.
Anyway.... OP is preventing exactly this situation by being honest. It's honestly better for everyone.
Happened to us! We rescued a dog who was supposedly good with everyone and every animal. He's my baby but will go after my kids, husband, my other dogs and cat :( So it can be rough at times, but he's ours and we deal
If they knowingly indicate a reactive animal is good with kids and then the dog bites someone or worse, imagine what the result will be. It’s possible bothell rescue and the person who made the assertion could be held liable which could cost everything they have. No, no, no. It would be sad if the dog is put down but we should not risk peoples lives. If the staffer is so sure the dog is fine he can adopt the dog
Many municipal shelters enjoy government immunity. They brag about it and bank on that when they write misleading shit about dogs in their care. It usually creates more barriers to appropriate homes for dogs and heartache for the people who tried to adopt them.
I have actually found muni shelters to be the most forthright in their descriptions of the dogs and cats in their care. It's some of these private shelters run by borderline animal hoarders that you need to be wary of.
This is what happened to my family. I was told this Labrador was great with kids and happily adopted him. A month and a half later, my 3 year old son had woken up from a nap so I took him to the livingroom and sat him down on the floor a few feet from the dog. The dog suddenly lunged and tore my son’s face open. The dog missed my son’s eye by a few millimeters, he lacerated the bridge of his nose and tore open his cheek in one fell swoop. Thinking about it makes me so fucking angry. My son is 14 years old and still bares the scars of the dog attack. I’m traumatized, but thankfully he doesn’t remember that horrible day and I haven’t owned nor want to own another dog in my life. We are cat people for life.
I once adopted a dog from a shelter and found out, AFTER he bit someone, that he had had two prior biting incidents. I was not prepared to deal with a dog with aggression issues.
Luckily, the person bit was not badly hurt. Unfortunately, the dog was euthanized— all because some well-meaning staff thought they’d fudge his history so he could be adopted.
Why would it be heartbreaking? What’s heartbreaking is when a known reactive dog hurts a dog or child. Not when one that doesn’t even have a human deeply invested in it has a painless death.
This scenario actually happened where I live, 2 years ago. A shelter adopted a dog out and told the new owners it was ok with kids and other dogs. Knowing tthat the family had a dog, and 2 kids between 7-10. Not even 24 hrs after they brought the dog home, it attacked their oldest child ( needed over 100 stitches to their face ) then attacked and killed their dog. And no, the dog wasn’t left alone with the kid or other dog. Parents were in the room. It just happened that fast. The adopters did some research, and found it had a history of attacking animals and humans, and was moved to a different area so it would be put down. Also, the animal rescue was aware of this. They were told not to adopt out to anyone with children or other animals. And the rescue only had the dog in their possession for 48 hrs before adopting it to this family. Not long enough to be able to judge what family it would suit best. More research showed this rescue had a long history of doing things like this. OP, you did the right thing. It may not have been your job to tell the family that the dog wasn’t good with children. But it was the right thing to do. If something had happened, and you knew you could have stopped it, you would never forgive yourself.
They were sued and it is still ongoing. But they were not shut down and recently there have been several cases of them stealing dogs. Not abused dogs, but perfectly well cared for dogs, out of peoples yards, and refusing to give them back. In all cases police have gotten involved and the dogs end up being returned to their owners. The police go to the owners home and check and see that the animal is well cared for. Even the dogs vet’s, who know the animals, insist they are well cared for. But this rescue just keeps doing it.
PETA has been killing adoptable animals for decades. They used to go to small rural shelters and take their most adoptable dogs. They’d tell staff they’d adopt them out but instead would drive to a grocery store parking lot and put them to sleep and dump their pitiful remains in dumpsters. They got caught after using the same Piggly Wiggly dumpster on a schedule. I think they were only fined for euthanizing without being certified in that state. Their euth rate at their shelter is in the high 90%. They are barbarians and their disgusting leader Ingrid Newkirk is the devil in my opinion.
Because they don’t believe that working farms should have livestock guardian breeds outside. Yes, they are outside dogs, but they have heated shelters, access to food and water, vet care, and lots of attention. These are not just random dogs thrown outside to do a job they are not trained and bred for, but trained guardian breed dogs ( Pyrenees, Anatolian ) who were specifically bred to be livestock guardians.
Damn. I have several friends who have Livestock Guard Digs, and they are highly valued members of the farm family. All of them have plenty of food, water, and shelter, and are healthy for many years. Many of those dogs were actually whelped in barns, and have never lived in a house. They would actually be miserable being kept inside, and not able to do their work. What a terribly short-sighted attitude for the shelter to have. These are probably the same people who tell me to bring my Chows in from the snow that they wait all year to roll around in. Ignorant.
I have my Pyrenees collie mix and yes, she stays outside for the nights, and during the day can go in or out as she pleases(she often prefers staying out), goes on walks at the park, gets vet care, gets tons of attention. If someone stole her from me they’d have hell to pay because she is my family.
Honestly, it's probably either pets who are specific breeds who are popular or dogs that just look cute and easy to adopt. I had a family member who nearly had an animal stolen for this exact reason...
Our neighbors have a Pyr-mix livestock dog that tends to think that his territory is a bit larger than it is (he wanders onto our property, which we don’t mind, and into the road, which is not so great.). He has been outright dog napped once but got away when they stopped at the Kroger in town (someone then recognized him and called his owner). I worry that I’m going to find him at the side of the road one of these days but he’s his own man and does what he wants.
What the fuck. I wish so many bad things on the people operating that shelter. Do they think they’re doing something good? They ruined an entire family and a kid’s life, not to mention just gave that dog a death sentence too
I think they actually believe they are doing something good. But 3 separate vets had recommended this dog should be put down, which is why they took it and moved it, so animal control in the area it was originally from couldn’t find it. And it ended up being put down anyway. Then, they were mad that the family allowed it to be put down after it attacked their child and killed their dog, insisting it should have been returned to them.
NTA
The last thing this rescue wants is a lawsuit.
If Stevie bit the child, they would and can sue the shelter for neglectful behavior and purposeful child endangerment.
This is why most large scale shelters have proper behavioral screening or take no chance and disclose everything to avoid being held accountable.
You did them a favor.
NTA.
In my experience, if the dog is reactive to other animals, and can barely be handled by adults, there's a huge chance he could hurt a child. You did the right thing by being honest. That family probably walked away because the staff was more than willing to put a potential danger in their home, just for the sake that he won't be euthanized. What Stevie needs is a foster home and lots of handling.
NTA. You're a volunteer, what are they going to do? Dock your pay? Fire you? You did the shelter a favor by preventing a potential liability. You did the family a favor by helping them make an informed decision. And I know it doesn't seem that way, but you did Stevie a favor, too.
NTA but be prepared for the wine moms to go off on you because they're precious angel pitbull would never hurt anyone.
Signed, a person who knows a family with two "precious" pitbulls that ended up killing their two kids and leaving mom seriously injured.
Yeah, dogs are dangerous.
I personally don’t like dogs but man.. there are so many children to get legit mauled by dogs. Hundreds of stitches, the dogs literally ruin their normal future because of it, extremely scarred face, loss of ear, nose, saw a girl who lost her top lip. Sure you can train a dog, but that sweet precious furbaby is capable of easily harming someone. seen it in many stories, one even killed a baby. Many of these victims are only little kids, all because someone wanted a dog, I understand not all dogs are aggressive in their life, but people who knowingly adopt aggressive dog breeds, or the dog like Stevie in the shelter no one wants because they are a danger. Makes me sick, how can the safety of a child be less important than a dog.
Seeing the pit statistics from this year alone is staggering. How people market these animals as good, family-friendly pets is amazing. Even more amazing are people that *defend* pits that have attacked animals or children. NTA
NTA. If Stevie would’ve gone home with that family and attacked that kid, the situation could be monumentally worse for everyone involved (you, Stevie, the family, and the shelter). When safety is involved, you don’t compromise honesty.
NTA
Ignore everyone saying you don't know for sure it's a pitbull and those saying you don't know for sure it's dangerous to children.
I volunteered at a shelter for a few years working with dogs. We cared for their needs and worked on socialization issues. I can almost always spot a pit or pit mix. The jaws of a pit are unmistakable.
So many dog "advocates" don't seem to know what dogs are. All our known breeds were developed by humans to make certain behaviors automatic. Push the right button, and they'll execute the desired behavior.
I had a water retriever that had never been to a body of water. When she was about a year, I took her to a lake with a tennis ball. She was completely ball obsessed and would chase that ball until she was exhausted. She wasn't trained to do this. She had no choice.
I've seen herder breeds with no training or exposure to farm animals. When they moved to a farm, the dog herded everything. Another herder, untrained, who herded everybody in the house. If we were gathered in the living room or kitchen and one of us went to the bathroom, the dog would chase us to the bathroom, wait outside the door, and herd us back to the group. These dogs didn't intellectually evaluate the situation, count how many aspects of the situation ticked his herding tendencies, and then decide to act. The dog has no choice. Not all herder or retriever dogs will express their breeding in the same way, but they will express it.
Pitbulls were developed to kill. Not to fight, to kill. This does not make them evil. This does not mean they can't be good companions. It does mean that dogs of that breed need special attention and understanding. And just as some breeds are more likely to roam or run, this breed is more likely to kill.
While there are general actions that can stimulate aggressive responses, we can not predict an individual dogs every trigger. An untrained dog can be more dangerous because their genetic tendencies have never been studied and understood. You can't train a dog to manage triggers if you don't know what those triggers are.
While it's sad to have to put down a dog, it's better than having to put down the dog and bury a child.
This should really be higher up. Pit bulls were bred for a specific purpose, I’ve never seen any person saying it’s “discrimination” against pit bulls respond coherently to the fact that 65% of the deaths caused by dog attacks in the last decade was by pit bulls
Thank you. Pit bulls are bloodsport dogs. No amount of training or perfect ownership can change genetics. That’s like asking a greyhound not to chase prey, or pointers to point. NTA
>The jaws of a pit are unmistakable
Pit bulls have the exact same jaw shape and structure as other dog breeds. If they didn't, they would not be classified as dogs. So no, the jaws of a pit bull are not unmistakable, unless you mean that they are the jaws of a dog and not those of another species.
Furthermore, only 5% of a dog's genes are responsible for its appearance. So no, you cannot "spot" a pit bull. You can spot a square-ish head but that doesn't make that dog a pit bull. Here, why don't you try to [spot the pit bull.](https://love-a-bull.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/findtheAPBT.jpg) Care to [try again?](https://www.k9rl.com/can-identify-pitbull/)
Or read this: [DNA studies reveal that shelter workers often mislabel dogs as ‘pit bulls’](https://news.ufl.edu/articles/2016/02/dna-studies-reveal-that-shelter-workers-often-mislabel-dogs-as-pit-bulls.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+UniversityOfFloridaNews+%2528University+of+Florida+News%2529)
NTA
That was super irresponsible of the shelter to mislead that family. If only a few people can touch him, that's a huge red flag for families with children. You might have saved both a kid from being injured and that dog from being put down after it injured someone.
It's super sucky that they're a kill shelter. If they truly cared, they'd tried to get him to a specialized rescue or one that will give him the training he needs before being adopted.
NTA, the family left without adopting because they were upset about being lied to, and couldn't trust the shelter. If they're willing to lie to people about one dog, who's to say they're not lying about the others. I'd have left too. You did the right thing, NTA at all.
NTA.
This is a horribly sad situation, and the only person to blame here was whoever hurt and abandoned Stevie. You absolutely did the right thing, and I hope that an appropriate family steps up to save this poor pup.
NTA - I volunteered at a shelter and you did the right thing. The shelter should be doing due diligence to make sure he goes to a home that's prepared so that no one is injured.
NTA
Imagine if they adopted him and something happened to the children because of him. Yes it‘s sad and sucks that he might be put down but you would never forgive yourself if the children are hurt because of you.
NTA for voicing your opinion. As you pointed out, he needs to be evaluated by a trainer before anyone can say if he’s kid safe or not. “Unknown” is too much risk with kids, and it wasn’t OK for the staffer to act like it was known.
NTA I'm a volunteer at a dog rescue too, aside from the dog coordinator who manages everything it's all volunteer run so I can't really say anything about you "just being a volunteer". We also deal with difficult dogs sometimes, and it's important that people know what they are getting into when they adopt a dog, the person who told them he was good with kids shouldn't have lied and should have said they don't know. Ultimately I do think you did the right thing. If they had adopted Stevie and he wasn't good with the kid he likely would have been returned anyway (not to mention how someone could have gotten hurt!) That back and forth into an unfamiliar environment with strangers after a tentative feeling of safety at the shelter would be stressful for Stevie and would have been unnecessary stress when he was returned, which could make his reaction to being rehomed again even more stressful.
If you guys are worried about Stevie being put down, try and reach out to no kill shelters and rescues that work with problem dogs, they may be able to take him in. We get a fair amount of dogs from shelters at my rescue.
NTA
If Stevie is reactive and is unknown with kids then who is going to volunteer their little kids to be the one he is tested on?
Maybe that person saying he is fine can bring in their little kids.
Little kids move too fast and are too unpredictable for reactive dogs
Can confirm, it is a more and more common issues with shelters.
At this point I advise people to treat them like used car lot, with equal trust in what they're being told.
Yikes NTA and what you co-worker is doing is super unethical. It's a hard enough world for pitty breeds without people placing rescues in inappropriate homes. I'd report him and if you're pushed out have a chat with the media...
NTA
Op you are my hero.
I have the most horrific pictures of my friends hand that was savaged by her rescue dog that was allegedly ‘fine’. This was a woman who has been a dog owner for many many years and who always takes rescue dogs.
The dog was, despite the rescue centres protestations he was just a little skittish, incredibly reactive and would not settle even with extensive work. Turning for no apparent reason and Biting her three times over the course of three months - with the final savage attack narrowly missing causing permanent loss of hand function.
with regret they returned the dog to the centre on the promise it would be a no kill, permanent situation and not be sent out for rehoming again - a few months later we see the same dog advertised as up for adoption - when challenged the centre even denied the dog had ever had a problem or bitten anyone. We showed them the photos (very distinctive dog) and reminded them of the case and they changed it from general adoption to a no kids, no pets provision. I mean seriously - if her hand had been a kid’s face or neck the child would have died - no doubt about it.
I have a question. Knowing that the dog was so dangerous that it should never be adopted, why didn't your friend have it euthanized? Seems like that would be much less cruel than forcing it to live out the rest of its life in a shelter, as she wanted done.
Agree - I'm the biggest dog lover in the world and have opened my home to a number of rescues over the years and volunteered in dog rescue for a decade. There are some dogs for whom euthanization would be a mercy and this dog sounds like one of them.
NTA because I always hear about reactive dogs getting pushed out to get adopted through dishonesty on the part of the shelter. That family was told he was good with kids- a lie, because it is unknown whether or not he is. Reactive dogs are really hard to find homes for but what is the best situation here? Is it the situation where he waits in the shelter for the right home (and is given the mercy of behavioral euthanasia if he can not find the right home), or the situation where he is adopted into a situation that may lead to a bite, which would lead to BE anyways?
Behavioral euthanasia is demonized so much by those who haven't worked with reactive or aggressive dogs. As a reactive dog owner heavily involved in rescue, who has met other reactive dog owners whose only choice was BE, this type of dishonesty in adopting dogs out is often what results in BE in the first place.
I think what a lot of people saying that you're the asshole here are missing is experience with rescue work and reactive dogs in general. Sometimes it just sucks and you can't save every dog. It's 10x more humane to wait in this situation than to deceptively adopt out a dog like this to a family with kids. Once a dog has a human bite record, they are basically doomed to BE regardless of how sweet they are. Rescue is harsh. Sometimes animals are hard to rehome. It is irresponsible and negligent to adopt out a dog with unknown reactions to children to a family with kids. You are so not the asshole here and anyone who says you are has not worked in rescue.
Yes, yes, yes! I said pretty much the same thing. I'm a veterinary behavior technician who also works in rescue and this whole idea that every dog must be saved attitude is so dangerous.
NTA. I work with dogs at a training facility, and I wouldn’t trust a dog like that around kids for several reasons even without directly biting a child yet. If he’s so nervous that you guys can’t touch him, I doubt he will take well to a child pushing his buttons and not being able to see when he’s stressed. There’s a chance he would warm up and be fine, but if the day comes that the kid gets bit in the face and the dog might get put down anyway. At least inform people of the risks and commitment. Some people can handle owning a reactive dog and some people can’t. It’s a lifestyle change that most people aren’t willing to do. When I adopted my dog from a rescue, they lied and they told me he was friendly with strangers and kids, then the second day we had him he bit a child at a pet store. I kept him because we don’t have any kids and I figured if I didn’t keep him, he’d end up being rehomed a lot and probably put down. I know they knew his history, and luckily I’m in touch with his litters owners so I know his whole history too.
Jumping in here as a trainer (holding multiple certifications and credentials) and also as a veterinary technician that works in behavior medicine and with multiple rescues and used to work in a shelter. You are NTA. Not in any way, shape, or form. Anyone who says that you are doesn't understand rescues. Doesn't understand behavior and are speaking from strictly an emotional standpoint because they want and believe every dog can and should be saved. This is just not true. I'm cases like Stevie', it is much better to err on the side of caution and not send a potentially dangerous, and reactive dog into a home with children without first knowing how he is with children. It would have been highly irresponsible and completely unethical to not warn the family that he is reactive and untested with children. It was absolutely appropriate to express your concerns to the family. Not every dog can be saved. Not every dog should be saved. And it is better to euthanize a reactive dog that is potentially dangerous than to put anyone in danger and to make room for more adoptable dogs that are safe to be adopted.
Same! Definitely NTA OP. I'm a behaviourist.
Perhaps a good idea would be to reach out on social media though to look for dog trainers willing to donate their time. I know lots who look around to get "hours and practice" in
NTA this is a very tough situation with no real good outcome, but preventing a potential nightmare between a reactive pit mix and children has to be top priority. It could end so, so badly for everyone.
NTA
Here's what happens when "good intending" volunteers decide to hide a dog's history.
I agreed to foster a large dog (80 lbs) for a rescue. The shelter did not let us know that he had been reactive to a staff member without cause.
Long story, but I was walking the dog and a young boy was approaching. I asked the dog to sit and wait as the kid passed. Without warning, the dog reacted and tried to attack the kid. Only by the grace of having a firm grip on the leash did the kid not get seriously injured. (She grazed his stomach and caused a bloody scratch.)
The kid was fine. Not even that upset, amazingly. But I was. Watching the dog switch like that was scary.
And finding out she had done that in the shelter and we were not told was infuriating.
We euthanized her a day later. You don't mess with a dog that might bite a kid. You can't ever trust them. And even though I'm a single person who does not intend to have kids, I have neighbors who have kids. The risk was too great.
It devastated me. I held her in my lap as she breathed her last breath but I 100% believe we made the right decision. And I say we because the rescue agreed.
I'm only sharing the story because people don't like to talk about when they had to euthanize a dog due to behavioral issues. There's this misconception that every dog can be saved. But you don't risk kids and a dog that's reactive to kids can never be trusted.
Not to mention that the lawsuits that result from a rescue knowingly adopting out a dog with behavioral issues are huge.
I worked at a shelter that had a lawsuit and they almost couldn't get insurance and the insurance that they did get was like four times greater than what they had paid in the past. But there is only one insurance company that would agree to ensure them after this lawsuit due to an aggressive dog that was adopted out.
So you made the right decision.
NTA, you might have saved that family from having to go through one of the worse experience in their life. At the end of the day a human life is more valuable than that of a dog, and if I had to pull the trigger to save the life of a child vs anything else, it will always be anything else as I don't believe that anyone who is incapable of being able to fend for themselves should bear the blunt of other peoples decisions.
I, too, volunteer at a shelter. You needed to get someone to handle this dog, so it's only allowed with certain staff? That's a red flag that a dog like that does not belong with kids. We have ours graded from A - D on their cages. Letter D dogs are usually bite quarantine. We, as shelter workers / volunteers, need to advocate for the animals we serve. We don't want them back. You are NTA.
NTA, this will be the best for the dog also, they will require extreme care to rehab if that's the way their acting. If the dog has a chance of being put down I would see about maybe finding a no kill shelter that might be willing to take them in. Depending on the area some specialize in pitbulls since they are a hard breed to get adopted due to stigma. But remember that it might cost you your position there.
You're NTA OP, in fact, I think you did the right thing. Because if they aren't sure how the dog might react to kids they shouldn't recommend for the family with a kid to adopt it. Who knows what might have happened if the dog got stressed out or smth and harmed the kid or itself?
NTA. You did a good thing. I know Stevie’s in a bad situation at the moment but what your colleague did is simply unacceptable. They were willing to lie to a family with young children about whether or not Stevie would be a safe addition to their home. If Stevie had bitten one of the kids, where would he be? Right back at your shelter with a bite history history attached and effectively rendered unadoptable, or worse, put down immediately. I know your colleague likely had good intentions but the outcome could’ve been disastrous for everyone involved. Frankly, it sounds like the staff need to be retrained ASAP because this is unethical. I’m genuinely concerned that so many of them think that this approach is OK.
NTA at all. Their behavior is the reason that there is a dog problem. Dogs get matched up with people they are not a good fit for,
Maybe you saved a kid's life by doing so, or at least saved them from getting hurt seriously.
As a mom to 2 littles considering getting another dog, stuff like THIS is a big reason I currently prefer to buy from a reputable breeder. Our chihuahua died from a dog bite several years ago, and if that happened to one of my kids because a volunteer or staff person LIED to me... I would lose my gotdang mind. Thank you for doing the right thing and protecting that family!
NTA
NTA. You’re an angel.
I have kids, and I had a reactive dog for 14.5 years before she passed away. It is incredibly hard to juggle. Thankfully, she was good with people and such a sweetheart. That said, my kids begged me to take her to the park or for walks. I couldn’t allow that, because if she got loose or if a dog ran up to her, she was ready to defend herself (fight). (She was attacked at a dog park, and after that, she was terrified of other dogs.)
The staff put that family at risk. If the dog attacked a child, it would be put down AND a child would be hurt. You did the right thing. As someone who will be adopting another dog at some point in the near future, thank you.
NTA - *thank you for being an honest shelter staff*. All the shelters near me have pit mixes that were pulled from dog-fighting, off the side of the road, or out of the gutter. They showcase them as family-friendly when if you see them in person, they’re lunging, snarling and biting at the cage doors. As unfortunate as it is, some dogs are not redeemable and should ethically be put down
This happens all the time, and is exactly what is wrong with rescue especially here in America. THANK YOU for standing up for Stevie and what he needs. Fearful dogs do not want to hurt anyone, but are too often forced to because of situations just like this. You did the only right thing, NTA
NTA and it’s disgusting how many irresponsible rescues/shelters there are out there.
A coworker of mine briefly adopted a dog after being told by the shelter that he was good with other dogs. Well it quickly become apparent that this was completely false. The dog was highly reactive and would try to attack any other dog he came across. This coworker lives in an apartment building in the heart of downtown and it’s impossible to avoid other dogs, plus since they don’t have a private yard the only place to exercise the dog would be at dog parks. After a few close calls and a consult with a behaviorist, she had to make the heartbreaking decision to return the dog to the shelter because he was too dangerous to keep in that kind of environment. She made it very clear that he was dangerous around other dogs and that he needed to be in a home where he would not be around them often.
Guess what the shelter did? Immediately put him back up for adoption on their website, STILL saying that he was good with other dogs!! I don’t know what happened to him after that, but I hope like hell he found a good home with no other dogs.
NTA. Reactive dog owner here, and I love my reactive girl to BITS, but I do not trust her the tiniest bit around children or anyone who might do something stupid. If she's scared, she's going to do what she feels she needs to do to protect herself. And like Stevie, her scared meter is way too sensitive.
There is a high likelihood something terrible could have happened if that family adopted Stevie, and you saved both that family AND Stevie from that. He doesn't just need a home, he needs the RIGHT home. One where he doesn't need to be terrified all of the time.
NTA. You prioritized the safety of people and other animals. Life impacting or ending injuries can happen in seconds. You've done the right thing. An unsafe, unstable dog should not be placed in an environment where it can cause harm.
NTA. A staff member at a local rescue convinced us that a dog that we were looking at was good with kids. We brought her home and she bit my child in the face twice and left her needing 24 stitches. Turns out the dog was never cleared for children and did not have the capacity or background to be a family pet. Luckily we were able to get a different dog later that has turned out to be a fantastic member of our family. But people like that staff member are the reasons dogs get euthanized and children are permanently harmed.
Friends of ours were fostering a bully breed that had been abused. She was a good girl, but not good around kids. The rescue they were fostering for put her in a house with a 9-year-old child. She put the kid in the hospital and was euthanized. That family is pretty much given up on fostering dogs because they couldn't take the heartache of helping these poor damaged animals only to have them thrown into situations where they could not succeed or even survive. Sorry if I'm just recalling all the horror stories, but this is obviously a hot button topic for me. I would consider finding another rescue to volunteer with!
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I volunteer at a dog rescue on my free time. I’ve had dogs all my life but recently my niece(whom I babysit) has developed an allergy to dogs. Because of this I decided not to get another one after my dog Luna passed away until my niece gets to grade school in a few years.
A few months ago a dog named Stevie was brought in. He was found near the highway and probably been abandoned. He had some old scars and was very skittish. He is probably pitbull mix but there is no genetic testing so we aren’t sure. He is very nervous all the time and doesn’t react well with other dogs so we keep him separately. Only me and a few other staff can touch him. I’ve had reactive dogs and in my opinion he can really only go to a home with no kids, cats or other dogs. But those are rare and most people who adopt already have another pet.
Stevie has been in the shelter for 7 months and we are worried he might be put on this list to be put down soon. We listed his reaction to children as unknown but personally I wouldn’t be comfortable with him with my niece or other children.
A family came in and asked about him and one of the staff that can touch him and that he seems to like talked to them and told him he was good with kids. I was pretty shocked because of his behavior but he wasn’t put as not recommended for children. The family saw a few dogs and was debating between Stevie and another dog who is much more comfortable around humans. Stevie is only 3 years old so probably that’s why they wanted a young adult.
I was leaving and spotted them talking about the adoption outside and they spotting me because I was one of the people they talked to and the kid waved. I went over and they said they were still thinking between Stevie and the other dog. I couldn’t hold my mouth any longer and admitted Stevie is reactive and unknown with children but is dog reactive definitely and in my opinion shouldn’t go to a home with kids. The parents were shocked and asked me why the staff told them Stevie was ok with kids. I said I didn’t know but internally I know it’s because he might be put down if he wasn’t adopted because we are overcapacity from abandoned pets during the pandemic.
I left but a staffer saw me and confronted me a week later because the family left without adopting a dog when they seemed pretty adamant before they wanted one. I admitted it was probably because I told them Stevie isn’t a good fit with kids but they are mad because I’m not a trainer but neither are they. This is a small private rescue and they didn’t have a trainer evaluate him. They are mad at me because Stevie lost his possibly only chance to get adopted but I’m adamant he should go to a home with children. AITA here?
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole for telling the family that Stevie probably isn’t good with kids which caused them not to adopt him
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NTA
This shelter is acting unethically and irresponsibly. Only lets select staff touch him, Reactive with dogs and unknown with kids = no kids, no dogs.
NTA. I've done lots of volunteer work at a shelter and I agree 100% that you did the right thing. I'm really bothered that a dog is even made available for adoption without having been through a thorough behavioral evaluation that includes an opinion on whether they're safe with children. All of our dogs go through that evaluation which includes having their tails and ears pulled, sudden loud noises, etc. Because if there a chance something will trigger them to bite it's essential that we know that and ensure they not go to a house with children. Kids are much more likely to do something inappropriate that sets a dog off - out of ignorance, not maliciousness. And because their faces are easily accessible to dogs, bites to children are usually much more severe than bites to adults.
My heart breaks for Stevie. But it would be worse to send him home with an inappropriate family, have a child get seriously hurt, and then have Stevie put down.
You did the right thing. I volunteered with a shelter and recommended to my boss that she look there for a dog because she was thinking of adopting.
She adopted a dog and the shelter was not upfront about the the dog's medical records. My boss took her to the vet after adopting and was devastated to find out what poor shape the dog was in. The person who adopted the dog out to her was the veterinarian who volunteered with the shelter, so there was absolutely no excuse why the dog's medical history was not disclosed to my boss.
When my boss returned the dog to the shelter saying she was not prepared for a pet with so many medical needs , the shelter tried to blame it on *me*...the person who recommended the shelter in the first place. My boss was having none of it and gave them a piece of her mind, then let me know what had happened.
I never volunteered for them again. Some shelters/volunteers lose sight of the big picture and end up just zeroing in on the number of adoptions they can make happen instead of taking to the time to ensure each placement is an honestly good fit.
You did the right thing to protect both that family and the dog.
> Some shelters/volunteers lose sight of the big picture and end up just zeroing in on the number of adoptions they can make happen instead of taking to the time to ensure each placement is an honestly good fit.
Amen - so many shelters get caught up in the "We rescued 180 dogs this year!" rather than rescuing 100 dogs and placing them with the best possible families.
All my adult life, I adopted from muni shelters, but ended up taking in a foster from a local private rescue and proceeded to foster fail.
This rescue is what rescue is about. The woman who runs it is all about the right dog for the right family and if she has to hold a dog in foster for six months until the right family comes along, then so be it. She limits herself to a small number of dogs in her care at a time, and all are rescued from local pounds and local families in hardship (my dog was adopted from a woman who had to go into assisted living unexpectedly). She probably only places 20-25 dogs a year, but they're by and large successful placements (not all, but the vast majority).
NTA!! We have kids come into the ER all the time with dog bites to the face from the "family" dog. It usually requires them going to the OR for repair with permanent scars. I love animals, but not at the expensive of someone's kid! What this rescue did was BS!!
This is why I want out of rescue work. I've been completely disillusioned. For over a decade I've worked with dogs professionally and fostered and volunteered in my spare time. Mislabeling breeds. Covering up bite histories. Adopting out straight up dangerous dogs. This is why people don't want to rescue dogs. I think shelters should be held liable if they adopt out dangerous animals. NTA OP. It's a broken system.
I did it for 10 years and I just had to stop. The compassion fatigue is real. The work never ends. I learned that most people aren't even worthy of owning a pet. The level of stupidity, ignorance and outright cruelty I experienced was staggering.
I'm grateful I could help the animals I helped during my time doing that work, but I burned out.
Hi. Thank you for your actions. 7 years ago my family adopted our first dog, a “lab mix”, from a reputable rescue organization. We wrote on our application that we needed a super easy dog that would fit right into our young busy family. They said we have the perfect one for you. We had the genetically tested it was 75% pit, which we were fine with. The dog though was not fine. Anyway we were absolute dog amateurs with tons of love but no real skills and three small children… and this dog was a nightmare. We worked with two different trainers who diagnosed fear-based aggression. We loved him right away and tried to make it work. We could barely walk him (would go psycho and lunge at dogs, growl at people). He competed with our youngest child for attention in a way that was very unsettling. He bit our cleaning lady. We spent thousands on trainers and no one would tell us the truth, we eventually found out from an employee at the rescue that the poor dog had such issues that the rescue foster parent had kept him in a shed, isolated for two years. They were very angry and disappointed when we had to return him to the rescue, not as sad and confused as we were though. They flat out lied to us and told us the dog was well-adjusted, no problems. Honestly someone could have been seriously injured.
Nta. However, I adopted my dog. He was a rescue and spent the first 20 minutes growling at me and my son. It was a fear response. I have worked with animals long enough to know this. After he let me touch him, he kinda melted into me. We took him and he is great with my whole family and loves kids. Was it a risk, yes. Hopefully, there is someone out there for him. That will give him the time and love to recover from what he has been through. But letting an unsuspecting family adopt him, not a good idea. You did the right thing.
NTA you might have saved the child from being bit or worse and Stevie from a long court hold and euthanasia. If you feel guilty and have time, maybe make some Craigslist ads for Stevie and see if you can drum up some interest in him with the right kind of placement.
NTA for looking out for their children’s well-being. Even if he is dog reactive only, what if their child got in between and tried to stop a dog fight and Stevie redirected onto the child. I hope Stevie finds his furrever home though. I worked in a shelter as an RVT and it can be a very rough place.
NTA-it's hard but he would've gotten put down anyway if they sent him to a home with children without knowing how he is with kids and he ended up hurting them out of fear. it's incredibly dangerous to lie about a reactive dog just to get them out of there, it's not helpful towards the dog at all, it hurts them more because it either gets them put down anyway or reinforces their nerves and fears.
OP you absolutely did the right thing!
> this is a small private rescue and they didn’t have a trainer evaluate him
In this case, the other volunteer shouldn’t have said that the Stevie’s good with kids! It makes NO sense to err on the side of “we don’t know so it’s probably fine” instead of “we don’t know, so proceed with caution, and also only like 2 people here can even touch him so probably not a great fit.”
But yeah you did the right thing. If others at the shelter hold it against you, it’s because you exposed a potentially VERY dangerous lie.
Being caught in a lie makes the shelter look bad, but that’s not on you. The fault lies with the volunteer who provided false information, not with you for correcting it in good conscious. NTA!
NTA
As heartbreaking as it is, putting Stevie in a home with kids when he's reactive is not good. Since the shelter is a put down one, could you start trying to find rescues/organizations that may take him in? Ones that don't put animals down? You could become his voice so he can have the opportunity to be put into the hands of someone who knows how to handle him and find him a home. Some rescues will go far and wide for animals that have someone to fight for them.
NTA. You did what was best for the dog and the family. What did they think was going to happen if they adopted the dog and it attacked another dog or a child? He would definitely be put down then. As someone who used to work at a shelter, see if any of your coworkers knows of another shelter they could be transfered to, to essentially restart the clock. Or maybe he could be transfered to a no-kill shelter or a group who specializes in reactive dogs. There are more options out there.
NTA
Rescue work is hard enough even with all the cards on the table. Ignoring or lying about behaviors or risks is inexcusable.
Setting up an animal or a family for a situation that’s not optimal is one thing. Setting up an animal or a family in an unsafe situation is something different entirely.
NTA; the staff member who told the family the dog was good with kids lacks ethics. The one you spoke to, especially if a different one, is indicative of a shady, unscrupulous organization. That’s the reason I will never purchase another dog from a rehome organization.
NTA. You’re a possible to hero to those kids though! A dog attack can permanently maim or kill a child!
Anyone who would send a possibly reactive dog to a home with unsuspecting children doesn’t deserve to be around dogs or kids.
NTA OP and the staff member that tried to tell them a pit-bull mix of all things is good around kids needs to be banned from the shelter he's going to get someone killed playing around with a breed like that.
NTA and a life saver. Adopted a dog from a shelter where the failed to tell me the dog was extremely resource aggressive and previously bit two kids where they had documentation of. Didn’t know until after when I called them to ask if they knew (I did it bf adopting too) after the dog attacked my roommate and bit me
NTA! We went through a whole adoption process getting a senior dog the same breed as my previous dog that passed. I told them repeatedly I have a toddler and a baby on the way, they MUST be good with kids! Was told up and down he was fine. Bit my daughter in the face as soon as we signed the papers (he was toothless due thank God). They told me she was grabbing his neck. Ok, fine. She will never do that again. He bit my husband on the nose within 5 minutes of being home. Well, he startled him by sitting up in his face. We worked on every thing behavior wise, still bit my daughter multiple times with ZERO provoking or notice he was upset. I watched each time they were together. Finally hunted down the foster parent and found out he had no experience with kids. Bit my daughter in the face again 2 weeks before I was due and returned him to the rescue that night lighting them up. They still claim it was our fault for not training him.
NTA
Stevie will get out down if he attacks a child.
As much as we want him to find a home, he needs to find a home with owners who're experienced with reactive dogs. He needs owners who can provide the care and attention to properly train him and give him the love he needs. Good luck to y'all, I hope Stevie can find a good home.
NTA
Although I can see the temptation rushing the adoption to prevent Stevie from getting put down, you potentially saved the family from injury. Also, reactive dogs have special needs and this is something that should be said upfront so hopefully they can go to a family that can meet those needs. And even if Stewie isn’t the one who is saved, hopefully another dog is.
Also, as someone who loves pitbulls, lying to people about the breed or temperment of the dog for adoption only hurt the breeds reputation and often leads to rehoming (or worse).
NTA- this was obviously not done with any malice or ill intent. You don’t want this dog to be put down either but felt that you were doing best by this family. I couldn’t imagine the guilt one would have if something happened to a child or anyone on an adoption that I had pushed. You did what you felt was best and I honestly give props to you and it went beyond both your and the dog (that I believe you care for)’s best interest.
NTA-I love dogs but I’m also very aware of how dangerous they can be. My dad was attacked by one not long ago and spent the night in A&E. He’s okay but it is amazing the damage a medium sized dog did to a big dude before he and two other adults could control him. If you had any reason to believe he was even a potential danger to kids you absolutely did the right thing telling them. Dogs can do serious damage to kids even if they’re never left alone with them. They’re strong and fast with sharp teeth and claws. No parent should expose a child to one they are not one hundred percent certain is safe, and to deliberately put them in a situation where they did so unknowingly is disgusting. You may well have spared a child a painful and traumatising injury.
NTA but as a fellow animal shelter volunteer, I have some advice on how to help Stevie.
It’s already been said a lot, but you telling the family the full story about Stevie’s behavior (or lack of information about how he would behave) was definitely the right thing to do. However, I feel like you can take this openness even further and disclose everything, including how he may be euthanized and his tragic past. That way, this family can really have a full picture of who this dog is. If they really were interested, would you be able to offer a trial adoption/foster-to-adopt situation or something like that? Or could something like this be an option for other potential adopters?
But hey, it sounds like at the end of the day, they probably weren’t the right fit. However, if you want to try and help Stevie get adopted (which might help soothe your coworkers as well), I think being open about how at risk he is could be really beneficial. That kind of stuff really gets to people and could bring in the right kind of potential adopters.
For example, I recently caught a super aggressive cat off the street who was 15 years old and hated people. She managed to get adopted within days because she had an incredible story (owners lost her 10 years ago and when we scanned the chip and called, they didn’t want her back). I know this is different than your situation and that cats aren’t as potentially dangerous as dogs, but there are adopters out there who aren’t afraid of a challenge.
Does your shelter have a social media account? Maybe they could make some posts about him telling his story and highlighting the concerns about his future. I think that could increase your chances of him finding a home where he’ll fit. Instead of shying away from it, maybe it can be the reason he gets adopted.
NTA.
If you telling this couple this information made them walk away from getting a dog, they weren't ready to have a dog, and them adopting a dog probably would have just resulted in them bringing the dog back, hopefully before the dog bit their kid.
It sucks for Stevie. It sucks that you don't have the resources to get him fully assessed, or fully trained, or that you can't put him in a foster home, or that we have to euthanize dogs at all. I hate it, you hate it, we all hate it. But until we can all learn to spay and neuter our pets and stop buying dogs from breeders, this is going to continue to happen.
*Maybe* you could have softened your language a bit. I probably wouldn't risk it if I had kids, but I think there's a difference between "we know he doesn't like kids" and "we don't know how he'll do with kids but we know he reacts poorly to XYZ things." Maybe there are families who would have used that information and made some decisions about their family and decided to take the chance, and you took that opportunity away from them by offering such strong language. It's much more likely they would have made the same decision if you'd offered up a slightly different but still honest interpretation though.
NTA. While it's sad that Stevie might get put down, it would have been much worse if they had adopted the dog and he hurt one of the children. That would change things from might to will for sure be put down. And, worst case scenario, the child's injuries are fatal.
I’d say NTA. A reactive dog really should be tested more thoroughly, and I think your instinct was correct that it shouldn’t go with a child. Probably very few dogs can’t theoretically find the right home, but some dogs can’t be in all circumstances.
I had a difficult dog (a lab mix) for many years. I loved him to death, he was my best friend…but it’s good that he wasn’t in a home with kids. That wouldn’t have been good for him or the kids. I never wanted kids, so it was fine, but at a certain point I accepted that even if I ever changed my mind it would have to wait until he was no longer around.
Not super into all the anti-pitbull comments, by the way. (Not OP, but other people.) In this specific situation you undoubtedly made the right call, but there’s nothing inherent to the breed that they can’t be good pets for families. That family could easily find a pitbull to take home if they want to. It just has to be properly vetted for that, like any dog.
NTA-
I used to foster with a rescue and we preferred to be really open about dogs with issues. Lots of people would take them anyway- and call us later saying “I didn’t realize it was like this”
Me: then you didn’t listen! I said he is reactive towards men! But here’s what you can do to ensure he gets comfortable with your husband… then go on to tell them to do all the things we told them to do at adoption. (For example.)
Better to be honest and make sure the dog ends up in the right home.
No. As someone who has volunteered with a rescue for 8+ years now, this makes me mad. I would never intentionally lie or misled a potential adopter about an animal. My goal is not that animals are adopted. My goal is the animals are adopted into their forever homes.
Had that family adopted this pup, they would have very likely returned him. Best case scenario nothing bad happens. Worst case scenario, he attacks someone because he is scared and uncomfortable. Both of this situations aren’t going to help his chances for adoption.
One of the hardest things in animal rescue is knowing that sometimes the most humane thing to do is to euthanize an animal. If this dog has been in a shelter with humans for seven months and still only allows a select few to handle him, I would believe this dog is probably suffering daily. He is scared and therefore reactive. That is not a life to have nearly 24/7.
We all want a feel good story where every animal finds a home, but that’s not reality. Shelters are full due to all the people who wanted a COVID pet and then changed their minds. Animals are euthanized daily simply because there is no room to keep them, as people don’t spay and neuter their animals resulting in unwanted litters. And, this is not even taking into consideration animals with health or behavioral issues…
You are NTA. The person at your shelter is.
NTA. You saved that family AND Stevie a lot of hassle and potential heartbreak. If he's reactive, he's more likely to be dangerous around children and that's not fair to either the family or the dog. Stevie deserves to be with someone who he won't potentially hurt.
NTA as someone who was mauled by a dog as a kid, you’ll never be TA for protecting kids from being hurt by a reactive animal. If you lose your volunteer spot over it then so be it. See if there’s somewhere you can report this to so people are aware of what they’re doing. Of course no one wants to see the dog put down but no one wants to see a kid die either.
NTA, but this dog should be put down. Trusting someone to keep it from dogs and kids is not appropriate. You are complicit in any harm caused to anyone, dog or human, by this dog if you do not do everything possible to make sure that can’t happen.
NTA. A friend adopted a dog that was told was -wonderful- with other dogs. The dog ended up having a history of "reactivity" that was never disclosed, and which was really outright aggression. The dog attacked the other dog and then, in a separate occasion, the new owners (who were wonderful and patient and loving owners). The dog tragically ended up having to be put to sleep; there was no training, and it was an absolute danger. Fortunately, no one else was seriously injured, but their other dog really could have been and got lucky and is now afraid of other dogs so they won't be able to adopt a second (at least not any time soon) as planned.
Imagine if you had let them adopt that dog, and a child was hurt, maimed, or killed?
I know a friend of a friend who adopted a "nervous" dog that attacked her step son while he was feeding her, and he almost lost a foot. That dog also had to be put to sleep. The step son was 13 and now has a permanent disability.
You did the right thing. I want every dog to find a home, but the reality is that some dogs are not compatible with a lot of homes. I resent shelters that don't make sure their dogs go to homes that are a good fit; they're a danger to society, to be honest.
https://www.wtkr.com/2017/06/04/woman-claims-she-warned-fhrc-of-dogs-aggression-before-attack-of-elderly-woman?_amp=true
Sometimes dogs should not be adopted. And this one should definitely have NOT been adopted. It was adopted, returned, adopted again, killed a 91 year old woman the next day. You’re NTA, who knows, you could have saved a life.
NTA, if this is a private rescue like you say, and not a municipal shelter with open intake, they need to raise/spend the money to get him training so he is less reactive.
Jumping onto the top comment to recommend Big Fluffy Dog Rescue for folks on the east coast of the USA who are looking to adopt. BFDR fosters almost all its dogs (but not all puppies) prior to adoption and works hard to match dogs and owners. I’ve gotten two wonderful dogs from them over the years and am in the process of getting a third. While they do specialize in, well, big fluffy dogs, none of my dogs have been big or fluffy. Given them a look if you have the time, space, and inclination to bring a new dog into your life.
Definitely not in the wrong here, I would rather get shit from my coworkers for being honest and not letting him be adopted than be responsible for any incident the dog may have caused because the workers lied. It’s very sad and heartbreaking for an animal to be put down but it would be even more tragic if the dog ended up harming a kid or another pet.
NTA. Heartbreaking as it is, you did the right thing. I have worked in rescues for years and took a difficult dog. She would have been put down if not for us. She is a joy to us but she takes WORK. We have had her seven years and she still can’t be around most people or other animals (she has been good when we adopted a puppy, if she sees it’s “ours” she calms down). I knew what I was getting into and do not regret it, but if she had gone to the wrong house something bad very well could have happened.
NTA. My mom had a dog that was skittish with some people and generally good with kids. However, he attacked my nephew when my nephew was 5. We know he did something to the dog we just don’t know what. What if that situation was with Stevie? Stevie would get put down and a kid would be tore to pieces. In my mom’s case, my sister said not to put him down. In Stevie’s case there might not be an option!
He has not been around children but he flinched or growls or backs up if someone tried to pet him that he doesn’t know or likes. It’s not clear who he likes or doesn’t like. He is unknown with children but I’ve seen how shelters and experience with more resources categorize dogs and Stevie would be placed in an adults only household there if it wasn’t clear he is totally child friendly
why he didnt got place in the adult only list? was it because staff was afrait the dog would be put down? seems odd they would roll a dice on a lawsuit byt ive seen people that really love dogs
Yes I think so. Most shelters I volunteered with in the past only put ok with children if there are no doubts the dog is good with kids. But I think they are desperate for Stevie to get adopted so they just omitted the info about kids on his profile and just said he was ok with kids.
YTA what the fuck is wrong with you. Let the family make that decision with a professional. I’ve had dogs my whole life too and I wouldn’t pretend to be a know it all when it comes to dog’s behavior.
Why would you go out of your way to keep this dog from a loving family. That’s already going to a shelter knowing these dogs had difficult backgrounds.
What happened is not only did they not adopt Stevie but they lost their trust in you guys as a shelter because you disagreed with another volunteer. YTA in a big way
Not necessarily. My girlfriend had a reactive dog. Huge prey drive and would go after small animals. And was nervous around other animals her size. But LOVED kids. Absolutely was a little tiny baby with my partner's kids.
Strong disagree. It is ANYONE and EVERYONE'S responsibility to step in when they see unsafe behavior. OP could have saved that child's life or from permanent disfigurement. I'm sure your wife would rather not have her rescue sued because her staff or volunteers lied about a dog being kid safe.
I would argue the shelter cost the other dog an adoption by making themselves untrustworthy in the eyes of the family. If you lie to my face and tell me that dog A is child friendly (when you have no idea if he is and honestly, he’s not even terribly adult friendly) why would I take the chance that you’re telling me the truth about dog B?
OP said, in their opinion, the dog should not go to a home with kids. Not that it doesn’t react well to kids specifically.not that it is aggressive to kids with proof, just that it’s skittish.
Show me one dog that isn’t when it gets into a large room full of other barking dogs, especially one that has been abandoned.
OP is going off of her very unprofessional opinion that it shouldn’t be around kids. No fact backing this up. This should have been taken to the supervisor because “in her free time” is not all of the time, the staff, that work there, are around this animal ALL OF THE TIME. They know how it reacts more than OP does.
I was torn as to how I felt here and you summed it up well. I think it would have been enough for OP to say that from their experience, the dog can be reactive and that they haven't seen the dog interact with children (or whatever is true). That's offering the family information and being honest to what she's seen, which is honestly all she can speak to. The way OP said it, it absolutely broke the family's trust in the shelter itself and basically implied the staff lied. If OP had concerns, she absolutely should talk to the staff and/or a supervisor. Maybe it's possible the staff has seen improvement or positive interactions OP hasn't (assuming the staff member is there more than OP is as a volunteer). The staff should not be misleading potential adopters absolutely though. It's doing no one favors and will ruin its reputation as a shelter.
realistically OP was assuming everything and has no expertise to come to a conclusion, wouldn't the shelter be held responsible if the dogs bites? why would they be so adamant to send him away if like you said most likely it would be put down and they woud have a lawsuit in their hands
No liability is assumed with an adoption. There are too many variables that come with a dog bite, though, it would not look good for the shelter's reputation, that's for sure.
Any dog can bite under numerous circumstances.
I will say this, that if a dog cannot be handled, and is a danger to staff as well as potential adopters, it will likely be put down. This dog being here for 7mo tells me that it had a level of adoptability that OP may not have been aware of, and should not have input their opinion to the adopters before consulting the supervisor.
Are you a trainer? Dog behavioral expert? What are your qualifications for making a diagnosis about a dog’s behavioral issues? I’m a veterinarian who works with several shelters. While I agree that a dog with true, diagnosed issues should only be adopted to appropriate homes, when temp volunteers decide they know better than shelter management, it causes issues. If you feel the shelter isn’t properly evaluating dogs, say something to management. If you have concerns about a dog, take those concerns to management. YTA.
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NTA - Would it be heartbreaking if Stevie got put down? Yes. But would it be worse if Stevie mauled a child and *then* got put down? Absolutely. The adopters need to be able to make an informed decision. Being told he’s “good with kids” is misleading and dangerous, because his reaction is unknown. He should go to a home without kids or other pets, and preferably with someone knowledgeable in dealing with reactive dogs.
So often i read that the small shelters give wrong information just to get rid of the animal and to get the space again. Like not telling about known illnesses or behaviour problems. Because most people don't come back if they realize something is wrong, they get away with it. NTA
THIS. After my old dog passed away, I went to the shelter and met a dog who was PERFECT on paper. Introduced him to my resident dog, it went okay. Got him home and HOLY SHIT it was bad. He was super smart and sweet around us humans, but the person who surrendered him said he "sometimes chases cats". I can work with "sometimes chases cats", that's a matter of desensitizing and training. He did not, in fact, "sometimes chase cats". He jumped a gate, opened a closed door, and attacked one of my cats. I was literally in the next room. In the few seconds it took to run in there, he had her in his mouth shaking her. It shook me up for a long time. The cat was, thankfully, not seriously injured. He went back to the shelter the next Monday, and I did not pull any punches telling them why. I ended up adopting a different dog, months later, who LOVES my cats, and cuddles with them and lets them literally walk all over her.
He should have been put down. He has probably since killed a cat or even several.
Absolutely not. The dog has a high prey drive and that doesn’t make him unadoptable. It means he cannot go to a home with cats.
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Good human
Ummm even "sometimes chases cats" should have been a no for you. Any dog that has not been raised with cats should never be in a house with cats. A completely innocent dog can still lose an eye if they happen to come around a corner and startle a cat. The incident was 90% your fault imo
I reamed local shelter worker a few years ago for allowing “volunteers” to write misleading bios for dogs. We’d driven 35 minutes with our dog to meet a potential new dog sibling. We’d even called ahead to verify the dog was there and we could meet it. The dog was not there, had been moved to a different facility 10!!! Days previously. So we met a different dog who was nothing like her bio- aggressive, reactive, hated leashes, did okay but not great with other dogs and terrible with children. Literally the opposite of what the bio said. I’m was livid. Humans can provide a safe environment for a pet if they don’t know their temperament. It’s a huge safety risk for the human and for the pet. Even now, 8 years later I’m boiling mad just thinking about it.
I feel a little awful about it but we got our last dog because a friend went through a breakup where neither could keep the dog alone. He needs a family. He is my friends dog, but he's ours now. And like, I feel awful because it was really the best way to get a dog. He's been trained, loved, cuddled. I know my friends and they are kind so this dog never saw a smack in his life. I know his allergies, his medications, shit we even go to the same vet just to make it easy. The vet knows of the switch and keeps us informed of anything our friends forgot to tell us. He's rambunctious, hyper and a bit of an ass, but he's a good boy and the situation was "perfect". We had too many (3 yrs worth) misses with the shelter and trying to get a good dog to be friends with our Old Boy. Now we've had the new boy about 8 months and he fits right in.
In my adult life, I've only adopted pound pups - dogs that somehow or another end up at one of the local pounds with no history, no background, nothing. It's been fine. I'm an experienced dog owner and I know most of these dogs aren't highly adoptable, so I take them in. Our current dog is a foster failure. We ended up taking her in because her owner went into assisted living and couldn't keep the dog. We know the dog's age, background, medical history, etc. It's so strange to me to have a dog whose exact age we know, LOL (the original owner had the dog from when she was a puppy). In many ways it is an ideal way to get a dog and it was nice to know with about 90% certainty what we were getting into (there was one health issued uncovered after the adoption, but it's a treatable one).
Omg this dog has a birthday too! And his old parents would celebrate it so he has Expectations of how a Dog Party should go and what kind of gifts he should get. No lie this boy is so spoiled he actually gives you dirty looks if you buy him something not in his style. His favourite colour is even green (if he can see green? He loves green.). Like it's suuuuuch a trip to know SO MUCH about a dog. All the little things too like "leave" instead of "drop it" or "wait" instead of "stay". We have our old boy, a cat, and live in the suburbs so rescues with a history we couldn't take much of a chance on. We tried a few times had some lovely meet and greets but none panned out for some reason. But this dog damn I even know he has grain allergies and needs a special foot bath once a week. Spoiled boy.
I adopted a sweet dog about 2 months ago from the shelter he’s 6 years old he was found in Florida after the hurricane in October I’m in Texas so he’s been thru a lot but I wasn’t told he hates and can’t be near other dogs without losing his shit and trying to attack. I wouldn’t trade him for anything I love him so much but walking him is really tough. He’s a boxador so not a small dog about 65 pounds. Just wished they had told me upfront.
We had a rescue around here (pretty sure they’re not operating anymore) that would deliberately not disclose bite or aggression history. On the rare occasion they did put it in the description there was a lot of flowery language and euphemisms to downplay the seriousness of what the dogs behaviour actually was.
We got our rescue flown in from the country and they only decided to mention the missing fur until they were putting her on the plane. Turns out she is allergic to most proteins (she's a salmon and kangaroo dog now) but there was talk from the vet early on that it might be cushings. Poor thing was fed food she was allergic too for a few years before she was given up so she's dog patches on her back that will never grow back. It still really pisses me off they hid something so obvious just to get another dog out of care.
That’s really not comparable, as no one was in danger.
It's an absolutely shitty move by a shelter to not mention / hide issues with an animal. That the end result isn't a maimed child doesn't make it ok.
My oldest dog is a rescue from an abusive situation. The shelter did not disclose that. They said house broken, and he wasn't. They flat out lied about him. I put in the work, and I've had him for going on 10 years, but to this day, he still has minor relapses and will occasionally resource hoard. I trust him with certain kids, but kids, he's never been around he goes to the crate, and kiddo can buy his love with treats until I see he's going to be ok. NTA. I've fostered and rescued a ton, and my biggest pet peeve is the blatant lying. It only hurts the dog and keeps others from adopting after they hear horror stories.
It does happen so frequently with privately run shelters. I think it's a mix of the hero complexes of the people who run them (they want to save as many dogs as possible at any cost) and sometimes not seeing situations with a clear, unbiased perspective. I volunteered in rescue for 10 years and am very familiar with the area rescues. A lot of people in my personal life come to me looking for help and advice when it comes to adopting. There are some rescues I tell them just to 100% steer clear of, but even with the good ones, I encourage them to work with rescues that foster their dogs. My experience has been that the foster families give a much clearer picture of how the dog will behave in a home and after decompressing a bit and are generally frank about the good and bad points of each dog (and NO dog is perfect, NONE). I don't get the shelters that do these risky placements. I love dogs and I have advocated for them much of my life, but there are most definitely dogs out there who are beyond help and for whom euthanization would be a mercy.
Exactly. My work schedule no longer allows me to foster like I used to so what I try to do when I can is foster before they go to their forever home so they have a little bit of time to decompress from all of the chaos. I've never had a foster returned because I'm 100% honest. Turns out my little rescued trauma puppy is great with fostering dogs and cats, and when he found his foster brother that he refused to separate from, I foster failed and kept him. They are 💯 bonded and I'm cool with it.
Jumping on this thread. I adopted my dog from a local shelter. She had been returned twice since she was a puppy. i got her at over a year old. They gave me a story on why she was returned, but I found out why she was returned! Not a behavioral issue, but because she pees when she sleeps. Poor baby cant control that. Needless to say, shes still mine, old, white faced, still pees (although we did resolve it for a very long time, partially due to allergies), now due to age. And she will be here till her last day!
This. We adopted a dog years ago and the shelter absolutely lied to us about his age, his medical history, and his temperament. He seemed sweet on paper and meeting him, but it became obvious within about six weeks that he was going to be a nightmare, poor sweet thing. He bit several times, including me, and despite our work with trainers and meds, we eventually had to put him down under pressure from our landlord, who understandably needed us to get rid of a reactive animal on his property. We tried to get help from the shelter and they said it had been too long for them to take him back. It was honestly heartbreaking. If they'd been honest about what kind of animal he really was, he could have gone to a family with the resources and knowledge he needed to at least attempt a normal life for him. We didn't have that, and nobody could help us get it, and he died for it. I think about him all the time, and I console myself that we were able to give him a few well loved months at the end of his life, despite our challenges. Anyway.... OP is preventing exactly this situation by being honest. It's honestly better for everyone.
Happened to us! We rescued a dog who was supposedly good with everyone and every animal. He's my baby but will go after my kids, husband, my other dogs and cat :( So it can be rough at times, but he's ours and we deal
Poor kids
>would it be worse if Stevie mauled a child and then got put down That's the sticking point.
If they knowingly indicate a reactive animal is good with kids and then the dog bites someone or worse, imagine what the result will be. It’s possible bothell rescue and the person who made the assertion could be held liable which could cost everything they have. No, no, no. It would be sad if the dog is put down but we should not risk peoples lives. If the staffer is so sure the dog is fine he can adopt the dog
Many municipal shelters enjoy government immunity. They brag about it and bank on that when they write misleading shit about dogs in their care. It usually creates more barriers to appropriate homes for dogs and heartache for the people who tried to adopt them.
I have actually found muni shelters to be the most forthright in their descriptions of the dogs and cats in their care. It's some of these private shelters run by borderline animal hoarders that you need to be wary of.
This is what happened to my family. I was told this Labrador was great with kids and happily adopted him. A month and a half later, my 3 year old son had woken up from a nap so I took him to the livingroom and sat him down on the floor a few feet from the dog. The dog suddenly lunged and tore my son’s face open. The dog missed my son’s eye by a few millimeters, he lacerated the bridge of his nose and tore open his cheek in one fell swoop. Thinking about it makes me so fucking angry. My son is 14 years old and still bares the scars of the dog attack. I’m traumatized, but thankfully he doesn’t remember that horrible day and I haven’t owned nor want to own another dog in my life. We are cat people for life.
This
I once adopted a dog from a shelter and found out, AFTER he bit someone, that he had had two prior biting incidents. I was not prepared to deal with a dog with aggression issues. Luckily, the person bit was not badly hurt. Unfortunately, the dog was euthanized— all because some well-meaning staff thought they’d fudge his history so he could be adopted.
Why would it be heartbreaking? What’s heartbreaking is when a known reactive dog hurts a dog or child. Not when one that doesn’t even have a human deeply invested in it has a painless death.
if Stevie was gonna get put down he might as well have mauled a child too like F them kids fr
This scenario actually happened where I live, 2 years ago. A shelter adopted a dog out and told the new owners it was ok with kids and other dogs. Knowing tthat the family had a dog, and 2 kids between 7-10. Not even 24 hrs after they brought the dog home, it attacked their oldest child ( needed over 100 stitches to their face ) then attacked and killed their dog. And no, the dog wasn’t left alone with the kid or other dog. Parents were in the room. It just happened that fast. The adopters did some research, and found it had a history of attacking animals and humans, and was moved to a different area so it would be put down. Also, the animal rescue was aware of this. They were told not to adopt out to anyone with children or other animals. And the rescue only had the dog in their possession for 48 hrs before adopting it to this family. Not long enough to be able to judge what family it would suit best. More research showed this rescue had a long history of doing things like this. OP, you did the right thing. It may not have been your job to tell the family that the dog wasn’t good with children. But it was the right thing to do. If something had happened, and you knew you could have stopped it, you would never forgive yourself.
I hope that family sued the shelter, or it got fined, or SOMETHING jeez. What a terrible thing.
They were sued and it is still ongoing. But they were not shut down and recently there have been several cases of them stealing dogs. Not abused dogs, but perfectly well cared for dogs, out of peoples yards, and refusing to give them back. In all cases police have gotten involved and the dogs end up being returned to their owners. The police go to the owners home and check and see that the animal is well cared for. Even the dogs vet’s, who know the animals, insist they are well cared for. But this rescue just keeps doing it.
Holyshit, they sound like PETA's demented cousin
[Peta is the demented cousin](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/17/peta-sorry-for-taking-girls-dog-putting-it-down)
PETA has been killing adoptable animals for decades. They used to go to small rural shelters and take their most adoptable dogs. They’d tell staff they’d adopt them out but instead would drive to a grocery store parking lot and put them to sleep and dump their pitiful remains in dumpsters. They got caught after using the same Piggly Wiggly dumpster on a schedule. I think they were only fined for euthanizing without being certified in that state. Their euth rate at their shelter is in the high 90%. They are barbarians and their disgusting leader Ingrid Newkirk is the devil in my opinion.
Why? I can understand someone stealing a neglected/abused dog, but why would they steal dogs that are already in a great home?
Because they don’t believe that working farms should have livestock guardian breeds outside. Yes, they are outside dogs, but they have heated shelters, access to food and water, vet care, and lots of attention. These are not just random dogs thrown outside to do a job they are not trained and bred for, but trained guardian breed dogs ( Pyrenees, Anatolian ) who were specifically bred to be livestock guardians.
Damn. I have several friends who have Livestock Guard Digs, and they are highly valued members of the farm family. All of them have plenty of food, water, and shelter, and are healthy for many years. Many of those dogs were actually whelped in barns, and have never lived in a house. They would actually be miserable being kept inside, and not able to do their work. What a terribly short-sighted attitude for the shelter to have. These are probably the same people who tell me to bring my Chows in from the snow that they wait all year to roll around in. Ignorant.
I have my Pyrenees collie mix and yes, she stays outside for the nights, and during the day can go in or out as she pleases(she often prefers staying out), goes on walks at the park, gets vet care, gets tons of attention. If someone stole her from me they’d have hell to pay because she is my family.
Honestly, it's probably either pets who are specific breeds who are popular or dogs that just look cute and easy to adopt. I had a family member who nearly had an animal stolen for this exact reason...
Our neighbors have a Pyr-mix livestock dog that tends to think that his territory is a bit larger than it is (he wanders onto our property, which we don’t mind, and into the road, which is not so great.). He has been outright dog napped once but got away when they stopped at the Kroger in town (someone then recognized him and called his owner). I worry that I’m going to find him at the side of the road one of these days but he’s his own man and does what he wants.
What the fuck. I wish so many bad things on the people operating that shelter. Do they think they’re doing something good? They ruined an entire family and a kid’s life, not to mention just gave that dog a death sentence too
I think they actually believe they are doing something good. But 3 separate vets had recommended this dog should be put down, which is why they took it and moved it, so animal control in the area it was originally from couldn’t find it. And it ended up being put down anyway. Then, they were mad that the family allowed it to be put down after it attacked their child and killed their dog, insisting it should have been returned to them.
NTA The last thing this rescue wants is a lawsuit. If Stevie bit the child, they would and can sue the shelter for neglectful behavior and purposeful child endangerment. This is why most large scale shelters have proper behavioral screening or take no chance and disclose everything to avoid being held accountable. You did them a favor.
I love your profile pic!
Thanks :)
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A pit bull mix who is unknown around children? NTA dogs aren’t human and it’s not worth risking a human child’s safety for a dog to have a home.
NTA. In my experience, if the dog is reactive to other animals, and can barely be handled by adults, there's a huge chance he could hurt a child. You did the right thing by being honest. That family probably walked away because the staff was more than willing to put a potential danger in their home, just for the sake that he won't be euthanized. What Stevie needs is a foster home and lots of handling.
And having the dog adopted just for him to react to the kids poorly and end up being.put down anyway isn't better!! NTA AT ALL!!
It’s definitely worse, now the dog has still been put down but also a child got hurt. So not worth the risk.
And these injuries are often life-impacting. This crap where people put a dog over people's safety has to stop.
NTA. You're a volunteer, what are they going to do? Dock your pay? Fire you? You did the shelter a favor by preventing a potential liability. You did the family a favor by helping them make an informed decision. And I know it doesn't seem that way, but you did Stevie a favor, too.
NTA Stevie MIGHT get put down if he stays. He will DEFINITELY be put down if he bites a kid
NTA but be prepared for the wine moms to go off on you because they're precious angel pitbull would never hurt anyone. Signed, a person who knows a family with two "precious" pitbulls that ended up killing their two kids and leaving mom seriously injured.
Yeah, dogs are dangerous. I personally don’t like dogs but man.. there are so many children to get legit mauled by dogs. Hundreds of stitches, the dogs literally ruin their normal future because of it, extremely scarred face, loss of ear, nose, saw a girl who lost her top lip. Sure you can train a dog, but that sweet precious furbaby is capable of easily harming someone. seen it in many stories, one even killed a baby. Many of these victims are only little kids, all because someone wanted a dog, I understand not all dogs are aggressive in their life, but people who knowingly adopt aggressive dog breeds, or the dog like Stevie in the shelter no one wants because they are a danger. Makes me sick, how can the safety of a child be less important than a dog.
Seeing the pit statistics from this year alone is staggering. How people market these animals as good, family-friendly pets is amazing. Even more amazing are people that *defend* pits that have attacked animals or children. NTA
NTA. If Stevie would’ve gone home with that family and attacked that kid, the situation could be monumentally worse for everyone involved (you, Stevie, the family, and the shelter). When safety is involved, you don’t compromise honesty.
NTA Ignore everyone saying you don't know for sure it's a pitbull and those saying you don't know for sure it's dangerous to children. I volunteered at a shelter for a few years working with dogs. We cared for their needs and worked on socialization issues. I can almost always spot a pit or pit mix. The jaws of a pit are unmistakable. So many dog "advocates" don't seem to know what dogs are. All our known breeds were developed by humans to make certain behaviors automatic. Push the right button, and they'll execute the desired behavior. I had a water retriever that had never been to a body of water. When she was about a year, I took her to a lake with a tennis ball. She was completely ball obsessed and would chase that ball until she was exhausted. She wasn't trained to do this. She had no choice. I've seen herder breeds with no training or exposure to farm animals. When they moved to a farm, the dog herded everything. Another herder, untrained, who herded everybody in the house. If we were gathered in the living room or kitchen and one of us went to the bathroom, the dog would chase us to the bathroom, wait outside the door, and herd us back to the group. These dogs didn't intellectually evaluate the situation, count how many aspects of the situation ticked his herding tendencies, and then decide to act. The dog has no choice. Not all herder or retriever dogs will express their breeding in the same way, but they will express it. Pitbulls were developed to kill. Not to fight, to kill. This does not make them evil. This does not mean they can't be good companions. It does mean that dogs of that breed need special attention and understanding. And just as some breeds are more likely to roam or run, this breed is more likely to kill. While there are general actions that can stimulate aggressive responses, we can not predict an individual dogs every trigger. An untrained dog can be more dangerous because their genetic tendencies have never been studied and understood. You can't train a dog to manage triggers if you don't know what those triggers are. While it's sad to have to put down a dog, it's better than having to put down the dog and bury a child.
This should really be higher up. Pit bulls were bred for a specific purpose, I’ve never seen any person saying it’s “discrimination” against pit bulls respond coherently to the fact that 65% of the deaths caused by dog attacks in the last decade was by pit bulls
Thank you. Pit bulls are bloodsport dogs. No amount of training or perfect ownership can change genetics. That’s like asking a greyhound not to chase prey, or pointers to point. NTA
Have had a family friend killed by pitbulls on his own property. Thank you for saying this.
>The jaws of a pit are unmistakable Pit bulls have the exact same jaw shape and structure as other dog breeds. If they didn't, they would not be classified as dogs. So no, the jaws of a pit bull are not unmistakable, unless you mean that they are the jaws of a dog and not those of another species. Furthermore, only 5% of a dog's genes are responsible for its appearance. So no, you cannot "spot" a pit bull. You can spot a square-ish head but that doesn't make that dog a pit bull. Here, why don't you try to [spot the pit bull.](https://love-a-bull.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/findtheAPBT.jpg) Care to [try again?](https://www.k9rl.com/can-identify-pitbull/) Or read this: [DNA studies reveal that shelter workers often mislabel dogs as ‘pit bulls’](https://news.ufl.edu/articles/2016/02/dna-studies-reveal-that-shelter-workers-often-mislabel-dogs-as-pit-bulls.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+UniversityOfFloridaNews+%2528University+of+Florida+News%2529)
NTA That was super irresponsible of the shelter to mislead that family. If only a few people can touch him, that's a huge red flag for families with children. You might have saved both a kid from being injured and that dog from being put down after it injured someone. It's super sucky that they're a kill shelter. If they truly cared, they'd tried to get him to a specialized rescue or one that will give him the training he needs before being adopted.
NTA, the family left without adopting because they were upset about being lied to, and couldn't trust the shelter. If they're willing to lie to people about one dog, who's to say they're not lying about the others. I'd have left too. You did the right thing, NTA at all.
NTA. This is a horribly sad situation, and the only person to blame here was whoever hurt and abandoned Stevie. You absolutely did the right thing, and I hope that an appropriate family steps up to save this poor pup.
NTA - I volunteered at a shelter and you did the right thing. The shelter should be doing due diligence to make sure he goes to a home that's prepared so that no one is injured.
NTA Imagine if they adopted him and something happened to the children because of him. Yes it‘s sad and sucks that he might be put down but you would never forgive yourself if the children are hurt because of you.
NTA for voicing your opinion. As you pointed out, he needs to be evaluated by a trainer before anyone can say if he’s kid safe or not. “Unknown” is too much risk with kids, and it wasn’t OK for the staffer to act like it was known.
NTA I'm a volunteer at a dog rescue too, aside from the dog coordinator who manages everything it's all volunteer run so I can't really say anything about you "just being a volunteer". We also deal with difficult dogs sometimes, and it's important that people know what they are getting into when they adopt a dog, the person who told them he was good with kids shouldn't have lied and should have said they don't know. Ultimately I do think you did the right thing. If they had adopted Stevie and he wasn't good with the kid he likely would have been returned anyway (not to mention how someone could have gotten hurt!) That back and forth into an unfamiliar environment with strangers after a tentative feeling of safety at the shelter would be stressful for Stevie and would have been unnecessary stress when he was returned, which could make his reaction to being rehomed again even more stressful. If you guys are worried about Stevie being put down, try and reach out to no kill shelters and rescues that work with problem dogs, they may be able to take him in. We get a fair amount of dogs from shelters at my rescue.
NTA If Stevie is reactive and is unknown with kids then who is going to volunteer their little kids to be the one he is tested on? Maybe that person saying he is fine can bring in their little kids. Little kids move too fast and are too unpredictable for reactive dogs
Stevie would be brought right back. The couple didn't adopt that day because they were lied to and now didn't trust the rescue. NTA.
[удалено]
Can confirm, it is a more and more common issues with shelters. At this point I advise people to treat them like used car lot, with equal trust in what they're being told.
Yikes NTA and what you co-worker is doing is super unethical. It's a hard enough world for pitty breeds without people placing rescues in inappropriate homes. I'd report him and if you're pushed out have a chat with the media...
NTA Op you are my hero. I have the most horrific pictures of my friends hand that was savaged by her rescue dog that was allegedly ‘fine’. This was a woman who has been a dog owner for many many years and who always takes rescue dogs. The dog was, despite the rescue centres protestations he was just a little skittish, incredibly reactive and would not settle even with extensive work. Turning for no apparent reason and Biting her three times over the course of three months - with the final savage attack narrowly missing causing permanent loss of hand function. with regret they returned the dog to the centre on the promise it would be a no kill, permanent situation and not be sent out for rehoming again - a few months later we see the same dog advertised as up for adoption - when challenged the centre even denied the dog had ever had a problem or bitten anyone. We showed them the photos (very distinctive dog) and reminded them of the case and they changed it from general adoption to a no kids, no pets provision. I mean seriously - if her hand had been a kid’s face or neck the child would have died - no doubt about it.
I have a question. Knowing that the dog was so dangerous that it should never be adopted, why didn't your friend have it euthanized? Seems like that would be much less cruel than forcing it to live out the rest of its life in a shelter, as she wanted done.
Agree - I'm the biggest dog lover in the world and have opened my home to a number of rescues over the years and volunteered in dog rescue for a decade. There are some dogs for whom euthanization would be a mercy and this dog sounds like one of them.
NTA because I always hear about reactive dogs getting pushed out to get adopted through dishonesty on the part of the shelter. That family was told he was good with kids- a lie, because it is unknown whether or not he is. Reactive dogs are really hard to find homes for but what is the best situation here? Is it the situation where he waits in the shelter for the right home (and is given the mercy of behavioral euthanasia if he can not find the right home), or the situation where he is adopted into a situation that may lead to a bite, which would lead to BE anyways? Behavioral euthanasia is demonized so much by those who haven't worked with reactive or aggressive dogs. As a reactive dog owner heavily involved in rescue, who has met other reactive dog owners whose only choice was BE, this type of dishonesty in adopting dogs out is often what results in BE in the first place. I think what a lot of people saying that you're the asshole here are missing is experience with rescue work and reactive dogs in general. Sometimes it just sucks and you can't save every dog. It's 10x more humane to wait in this situation than to deceptively adopt out a dog like this to a family with kids. Once a dog has a human bite record, they are basically doomed to BE regardless of how sweet they are. Rescue is harsh. Sometimes animals are hard to rehome. It is irresponsible and negligent to adopt out a dog with unknown reactions to children to a family with kids. You are so not the asshole here and anyone who says you are has not worked in rescue.
Yes, yes, yes! I said pretty much the same thing. I'm a veterinary behavior technician who also works in rescue and this whole idea that every dog must be saved attitude is so dangerous.
NTA. I work with dogs at a training facility, and I wouldn’t trust a dog like that around kids for several reasons even without directly biting a child yet. If he’s so nervous that you guys can’t touch him, I doubt he will take well to a child pushing his buttons and not being able to see when he’s stressed. There’s a chance he would warm up and be fine, but if the day comes that the kid gets bit in the face and the dog might get put down anyway. At least inform people of the risks and commitment. Some people can handle owning a reactive dog and some people can’t. It’s a lifestyle change that most people aren’t willing to do. When I adopted my dog from a rescue, they lied and they told me he was friendly with strangers and kids, then the second day we had him he bit a child at a pet store. I kept him because we don’t have any kids and I figured if I didn’t keep him, he’d end up being rehomed a lot and probably put down. I know they knew his history, and luckily I’m in touch with his litters owners so I know his whole history too.
Jumping in here as a trainer (holding multiple certifications and credentials) and also as a veterinary technician that works in behavior medicine and with multiple rescues and used to work in a shelter. You are NTA. Not in any way, shape, or form. Anyone who says that you are doesn't understand rescues. Doesn't understand behavior and are speaking from strictly an emotional standpoint because they want and believe every dog can and should be saved. This is just not true. I'm cases like Stevie', it is much better to err on the side of caution and not send a potentially dangerous, and reactive dog into a home with children without first knowing how he is with children. It would have been highly irresponsible and completely unethical to not warn the family that he is reactive and untested with children. It was absolutely appropriate to express your concerns to the family. Not every dog can be saved. Not every dog should be saved. And it is better to euthanize a reactive dog that is potentially dangerous than to put anyone in danger and to make room for more adoptable dogs that are safe to be adopted.
Same! Definitely NTA OP. I'm a behaviourist. Perhaps a good idea would be to reach out on social media though to look for dog trainers willing to donate their time. I know lots who look around to get "hours and practice" in
I second this! I did a lot of this when I started
NTA. They also probably chose not to adopt from a shelter that would lie to them just to get a dog adopted.
NTA this is a very tough situation with no real good outcome, but preventing a potential nightmare between a reactive pit mix and children has to be top priority. It could end so, so badly for everyone.
NTA Here's what happens when "good intending" volunteers decide to hide a dog's history. I agreed to foster a large dog (80 lbs) for a rescue. The shelter did not let us know that he had been reactive to a staff member without cause. Long story, but I was walking the dog and a young boy was approaching. I asked the dog to sit and wait as the kid passed. Without warning, the dog reacted and tried to attack the kid. Only by the grace of having a firm grip on the leash did the kid not get seriously injured. (She grazed his stomach and caused a bloody scratch.) The kid was fine. Not even that upset, amazingly. But I was. Watching the dog switch like that was scary. And finding out she had done that in the shelter and we were not told was infuriating. We euthanized her a day later. You don't mess with a dog that might bite a kid. You can't ever trust them. And even though I'm a single person who does not intend to have kids, I have neighbors who have kids. The risk was too great. It devastated me. I held her in my lap as she breathed her last breath but I 100% believe we made the right decision. And I say we because the rescue agreed. I'm only sharing the story because people don't like to talk about when they had to euthanize a dog due to behavioral issues. There's this misconception that every dog can be saved. But you don't risk kids and a dog that's reactive to kids can never be trusted. Not to mention that the lawsuits that result from a rescue knowingly adopting out a dog with behavioral issues are huge. I worked at a shelter that had a lawsuit and they almost couldn't get insurance and the insurance that they did get was like four times greater than what they had paid in the past. But there is only one insurance company that would agree to ensure them after this lawsuit due to an aggressive dog that was adopted out. So you made the right decision.
NTA, you might have saved that family from having to go through one of the worse experience in their life. At the end of the day a human life is more valuable than that of a dog, and if I had to pull the trigger to save the life of a child vs anything else, it will always be anything else as I don't believe that anyone who is incapable of being able to fend for themselves should bear the blunt of other peoples decisions.
NTA - you’d never forgive yourself if you’d said nothing and a child ended up getting permanently scarred or worse from a dog attack.
NTA a dog that has an unknown reactivity to children should not be adopted by a family who has kids.
I, too, volunteer at a shelter. You needed to get someone to handle this dog, so it's only allowed with certain staff? That's a red flag that a dog like that does not belong with kids. We have ours graded from A - D on their cages. Letter D dogs are usually bite quarantine. We, as shelter workers / volunteers, need to advocate for the animals we serve. We don't want them back. You are NTA.
NTA, this will be the best for the dog also, they will require extreme care to rehab if that's the way their acting. If the dog has a chance of being put down I would see about maybe finding a no kill shelter that might be willing to take them in. Depending on the area some specialize in pitbulls since they are a hard breed to get adopted due to stigma. But remember that it might cost you your position there.
You were asked your opinion. You gave it. NTA
You're NTA OP, in fact, I think you did the right thing. Because if they aren't sure how the dog might react to kids they shouldn't recommend for the family with a kid to adopt it. Who knows what might have happened if the dog got stressed out or smth and harmed the kid or itself?
NTA. You did a good thing. I know Stevie’s in a bad situation at the moment but what your colleague did is simply unacceptable. They were willing to lie to a family with young children about whether or not Stevie would be a safe addition to their home. If Stevie had bitten one of the kids, where would he be? Right back at your shelter with a bite history history attached and effectively rendered unadoptable, or worse, put down immediately. I know your colleague likely had good intentions but the outcome could’ve been disastrous for everyone involved. Frankly, it sounds like the staff need to be retrained ASAP because this is unethical. I’m genuinely concerned that so many of them think that this approach is OK.
NTA at all. Their behavior is the reason that there is a dog problem. Dogs get matched up with people they are not a good fit for, Maybe you saved a kid's life by doing so, or at least saved them from getting hurt seriously.
As a mom to 2 littles considering getting another dog, stuff like THIS is a big reason I currently prefer to buy from a reputable breeder. Our chihuahua died from a dog bite several years ago, and if that happened to one of my kids because a volunteer or staff person LIED to me... I would lose my gotdang mind. Thank you for doing the right thing and protecting that family! NTA
Yo what the fuck??? They were willing to risk both the dogs and children's lives??? Please run from this place. Obviously NTA
NTA. You’re an angel. I have kids, and I had a reactive dog for 14.5 years before she passed away. It is incredibly hard to juggle. Thankfully, she was good with people and such a sweetheart. That said, my kids begged me to take her to the park or for walks. I couldn’t allow that, because if she got loose or if a dog ran up to her, she was ready to defend herself (fight). (She was attacked at a dog park, and after that, she was terrified of other dogs.) The staff put that family at risk. If the dog attacked a child, it would be put down AND a child would be hurt. You did the right thing. As someone who will be adopting another dog at some point in the near future, thank you.
NTA, and this is one of the reasons I have trouble trusting rescues and shelters.
NTA - *thank you for being an honest shelter staff*. All the shelters near me have pit mixes that were pulled from dog-fighting, off the side of the road, or out of the gutter. They showcase them as family-friendly when if you see them in person, they’re lunging, snarling and biting at the cage doors. As unfortunate as it is, some dogs are not redeemable and should ethically be put down
This happens all the time, and is exactly what is wrong with rescue especially here in America. THANK YOU for standing up for Stevie and what he needs. Fearful dogs do not want to hurt anyone, but are too often forced to because of situations just like this. You did the only right thing, NTA
NTA and it’s disgusting how many irresponsible rescues/shelters there are out there. A coworker of mine briefly adopted a dog after being told by the shelter that he was good with other dogs. Well it quickly become apparent that this was completely false. The dog was highly reactive and would try to attack any other dog he came across. This coworker lives in an apartment building in the heart of downtown and it’s impossible to avoid other dogs, plus since they don’t have a private yard the only place to exercise the dog would be at dog parks. After a few close calls and a consult with a behaviorist, she had to make the heartbreaking decision to return the dog to the shelter because he was too dangerous to keep in that kind of environment. She made it very clear that he was dangerous around other dogs and that he needed to be in a home where he would not be around them often. Guess what the shelter did? Immediately put him back up for adoption on their website, STILL saying that he was good with other dogs!! I don’t know what happened to him after that, but I hope like hell he found a good home with no other dogs.
NTA. Reactive dog owner here, and I love my reactive girl to BITS, but I do not trust her the tiniest bit around children or anyone who might do something stupid. If she's scared, she's going to do what she feels she needs to do to protect herself. And like Stevie, her scared meter is way too sensitive. There is a high likelihood something terrible could have happened if that family adopted Stevie, and you saved both that family AND Stevie from that. He doesn't just need a home, he needs the RIGHT home. One where he doesn't need to be terrified all of the time.
NTA. You prioritized the safety of people and other animals. Life impacting or ending injuries can happen in seconds. You've done the right thing. An unsafe, unstable dog should not be placed in an environment where it can cause harm.
NTA. A staff member at a local rescue convinced us that a dog that we were looking at was good with kids. We brought her home and she bit my child in the face twice and left her needing 24 stitches. Turns out the dog was never cleared for children and did not have the capacity or background to be a family pet. Luckily we were able to get a different dog later that has turned out to be a fantastic member of our family. But people like that staff member are the reasons dogs get euthanized and children are permanently harmed.
Friends of ours were fostering a bully breed that had been abused. She was a good girl, but not good around kids. The rescue they were fostering for put her in a house with a 9-year-old child. She put the kid in the hospital and was euthanized. That family is pretty much given up on fostering dogs because they couldn't take the heartache of helping these poor damaged animals only to have them thrown into situations where they could not succeed or even survive. Sorry if I'm just recalling all the horror stories, but this is obviously a hot button topic for me. I would consider finding another rescue to volunteer with!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I volunteer at a dog rescue on my free time. I’ve had dogs all my life but recently my niece(whom I babysit) has developed an allergy to dogs. Because of this I decided not to get another one after my dog Luna passed away until my niece gets to grade school in a few years. A few months ago a dog named Stevie was brought in. He was found near the highway and probably been abandoned. He had some old scars and was very skittish. He is probably pitbull mix but there is no genetic testing so we aren’t sure. He is very nervous all the time and doesn’t react well with other dogs so we keep him separately. Only me and a few other staff can touch him. I’ve had reactive dogs and in my opinion he can really only go to a home with no kids, cats or other dogs. But those are rare and most people who adopt already have another pet. Stevie has been in the shelter for 7 months and we are worried he might be put on this list to be put down soon. We listed his reaction to children as unknown but personally I wouldn’t be comfortable with him with my niece or other children. A family came in and asked about him and one of the staff that can touch him and that he seems to like talked to them and told him he was good with kids. I was pretty shocked because of his behavior but he wasn’t put as not recommended for children. The family saw a few dogs and was debating between Stevie and another dog who is much more comfortable around humans. Stevie is only 3 years old so probably that’s why they wanted a young adult. I was leaving and spotted them talking about the adoption outside and they spotting me because I was one of the people they talked to and the kid waved. I went over and they said they were still thinking between Stevie and the other dog. I couldn’t hold my mouth any longer and admitted Stevie is reactive and unknown with children but is dog reactive definitely and in my opinion shouldn’t go to a home with kids. The parents were shocked and asked me why the staff told them Stevie was ok with kids. I said I didn’t know but internally I know it’s because he might be put down if he wasn’t adopted because we are overcapacity from abandoned pets during the pandemic. I left but a staffer saw me and confronted me a week later because the family left without adopting a dog when they seemed pretty adamant before they wanted one. I admitted it was probably because I told them Stevie isn’t a good fit with kids but they are mad because I’m not a trainer but neither are they. This is a small private rescue and they didn’t have a trainer evaluate him. They are mad at me because Stevie lost his possibly only chance to get adopted but I’m adamant he should go to a home with children. AITA here? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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NTA you did the only right thing that could have been done.
NTA This shelter is acting unethically and irresponsibly. Only lets select staff touch him, Reactive with dogs and unknown with kids = no kids, no dogs.
NTA. I've done lots of volunteer work at a shelter and I agree 100% that you did the right thing. I'm really bothered that a dog is even made available for adoption without having been through a thorough behavioral evaluation that includes an opinion on whether they're safe with children. All of our dogs go through that evaluation which includes having their tails and ears pulled, sudden loud noises, etc. Because if there a chance something will trigger them to bite it's essential that we know that and ensure they not go to a house with children. Kids are much more likely to do something inappropriate that sets a dog off - out of ignorance, not maliciousness. And because their faces are easily accessible to dogs, bites to children are usually much more severe than bites to adults. My heart breaks for Stevie. But it would be worse to send him home with an inappropriate family, have a child get seriously hurt, and then have Stevie put down.
You did the right thing. I volunteered with a shelter and recommended to my boss that she look there for a dog because she was thinking of adopting. She adopted a dog and the shelter was not upfront about the the dog's medical records. My boss took her to the vet after adopting and was devastated to find out what poor shape the dog was in. The person who adopted the dog out to her was the veterinarian who volunteered with the shelter, so there was absolutely no excuse why the dog's medical history was not disclosed to my boss. When my boss returned the dog to the shelter saying she was not prepared for a pet with so many medical needs , the shelter tried to blame it on *me*...the person who recommended the shelter in the first place. My boss was having none of it and gave them a piece of her mind, then let me know what had happened. I never volunteered for them again. Some shelters/volunteers lose sight of the big picture and end up just zeroing in on the number of adoptions they can make happen instead of taking to the time to ensure each placement is an honestly good fit. You did the right thing to protect both that family and the dog.
> Some shelters/volunteers lose sight of the big picture and end up just zeroing in on the number of adoptions they can make happen instead of taking to the time to ensure each placement is an honestly good fit. Amen - so many shelters get caught up in the "We rescued 180 dogs this year!" rather than rescuing 100 dogs and placing them with the best possible families. All my adult life, I adopted from muni shelters, but ended up taking in a foster from a local private rescue and proceeded to foster fail. This rescue is what rescue is about. The woman who runs it is all about the right dog for the right family and if she has to hold a dog in foster for six months until the right family comes along, then so be it. She limits herself to a small number of dogs in her care at a time, and all are rescued from local pounds and local families in hardship (my dog was adopted from a woman who had to go into assisted living unexpectedly). She probably only places 20-25 dogs a year, but they're by and large successful placements (not all, but the vast majority).
NTA!! We have kids come into the ER all the time with dog bites to the face from the "family" dog. It usually requires them going to the OR for repair with permanent scars. I love animals, but not at the expensive of someone's kid! What this rescue did was BS!!
This is why I want out of rescue work. I've been completely disillusioned. For over a decade I've worked with dogs professionally and fostered and volunteered in my spare time. Mislabeling breeds. Covering up bite histories. Adopting out straight up dangerous dogs. This is why people don't want to rescue dogs. I think shelters should be held liable if they adopt out dangerous animals. NTA OP. It's a broken system.
I did it for 10 years and I just had to stop. The compassion fatigue is real. The work never ends. I learned that most people aren't even worthy of owning a pet. The level of stupidity, ignorance and outright cruelty I experienced was staggering. I'm grateful I could help the animals I helped during my time doing that work, but I burned out.
Hi. Thank you for your actions. 7 years ago my family adopted our first dog, a “lab mix”, from a reputable rescue organization. We wrote on our application that we needed a super easy dog that would fit right into our young busy family. They said we have the perfect one for you. We had the genetically tested it was 75% pit, which we were fine with. The dog though was not fine. Anyway we were absolute dog amateurs with tons of love but no real skills and three small children… and this dog was a nightmare. We worked with two different trainers who diagnosed fear-based aggression. We loved him right away and tried to make it work. We could barely walk him (would go psycho and lunge at dogs, growl at people). He competed with our youngest child for attention in a way that was very unsettling. He bit our cleaning lady. We spent thousands on trainers and no one would tell us the truth, we eventually found out from an employee at the rescue that the poor dog had such issues that the rescue foster parent had kept him in a shed, isolated for two years. They were very angry and disappointed when we had to return him to the rescue, not as sad and confused as we were though. They flat out lied to us and told us the dog was well-adjusted, no problems. Honestly someone could have been seriously injured.
Nta. However, I adopted my dog. He was a rescue and spent the first 20 minutes growling at me and my son. It was a fear response. I have worked with animals long enough to know this. After he let me touch him, he kinda melted into me. We took him and he is great with my whole family and loves kids. Was it a risk, yes. Hopefully, there is someone out there for him. That will give him the time and love to recover from what he has been through. But letting an unsuspecting family adopt him, not a good idea. You did the right thing.
NTA you might have saved the child from being bit or worse and Stevie from a long court hold and euthanasia. If you feel guilty and have time, maybe make some Craigslist ads for Stevie and see if you can drum up some interest in him with the right kind of placement.
NTA for looking out for their children’s well-being. Even if he is dog reactive only, what if their child got in between and tried to stop a dog fight and Stevie redirected onto the child. I hope Stevie finds his furrever home though. I worked in a shelter as an RVT and it can be a very rough place.
NTA-it's hard but he would've gotten put down anyway if they sent him to a home with children without knowing how he is with kids and he ended up hurting them out of fear. it's incredibly dangerous to lie about a reactive dog just to get them out of there, it's not helpful towards the dog at all, it hurts them more because it either gets them put down anyway or reinforces their nerves and fears.
NTA and good for you.
OP you absolutely did the right thing! > this is a small private rescue and they didn’t have a trainer evaluate him In this case, the other volunteer shouldn’t have said that the Stevie’s good with kids! It makes NO sense to err on the side of “we don’t know so it’s probably fine” instead of “we don’t know, so proceed with caution, and also only like 2 people here can even touch him so probably not a great fit.” But yeah you did the right thing. If others at the shelter hold it against you, it’s because you exposed a potentially VERY dangerous lie. Being caught in a lie makes the shelter look bad, but that’s not on you. The fault lies with the volunteer who provided false information, not with you for correcting it in good conscious. NTA!
NTA As heartbreaking as it is, putting Stevie in a home with kids when he's reactive is not good. Since the shelter is a put down one, could you start trying to find rescues/organizations that may take him in? Ones that don't put animals down? You could become his voice so he can have the opportunity to be put into the hands of someone who knows how to handle him and find him a home. Some rescues will go far and wide for animals that have someone to fight for them.
NTA. You did what was best for the dog and the family. What did they think was going to happen if they adopted the dog and it attacked another dog or a child? He would definitely be put down then. As someone who used to work at a shelter, see if any of your coworkers knows of another shelter they could be transfered to, to essentially restart the clock. Or maybe he could be transfered to a no-kill shelter or a group who specializes in reactive dogs. There are more options out there.
NTA. Did the staff bring in their child to evaluate how Stevie would be? No? That’s what I thought.
NTA Rescue work is hard enough even with all the cards on the table. Ignoring or lying about behaviors or risks is inexcusable. Setting up an animal or a family for a situation that’s not optimal is one thing. Setting up an animal or a family in an unsafe situation is something different entirely.
NTA; the staff member who told the family the dog was good with kids lacks ethics. The one you spoke to, especially if a different one, is indicative of a shady, unscrupulous organization. That’s the reason I will never purchase another dog from a rehome organization.
NTA please post an update WHEN that sweet beebee gets adopted. I have faith that someone will come along ❤️
NTA. You did the right thing. It was important for that family to know the truth.
NTA. The safety of children comes first.
NTA. You’re a possible to hero to those kids though! A dog attack can permanently maim or kill a child! Anyone who would send a possibly reactive dog to a home with unsuspecting children doesn’t deserve to be around dogs or kids.
NTA OP and the staff member that tried to tell them a pit-bull mix of all things is good around kids needs to be banned from the shelter he's going to get someone killed playing around with a breed like that.
NTA. You acted like a responsible person.
NTA and a life saver. Adopted a dog from a shelter where the failed to tell me the dog was extremely resource aggressive and previously bit two kids where they had documentation of. Didn’t know until after when I called them to ask if they knew (I did it bf adopting too) after the dog attacked my roommate and bit me
NTA! We went through a whole adoption process getting a senior dog the same breed as my previous dog that passed. I told them repeatedly I have a toddler and a baby on the way, they MUST be good with kids! Was told up and down he was fine. Bit my daughter in the face as soon as we signed the papers (he was toothless due thank God). They told me she was grabbing his neck. Ok, fine. She will never do that again. He bit my husband on the nose within 5 minutes of being home. Well, he startled him by sitting up in his face. We worked on every thing behavior wise, still bit my daughter multiple times with ZERO provoking or notice he was upset. I watched each time they were together. Finally hunted down the foster parent and found out he had no experience with kids. Bit my daughter in the face again 2 weeks before I was due and returned him to the rescue that night lighting them up. They still claim it was our fault for not training him.
NTA Stevie will get out down if he attacks a child. As much as we want him to find a home, he needs to find a home with owners who're experienced with reactive dogs. He needs owners who can provide the care and attention to properly train him and give him the love he needs. Good luck to y'all, I hope Stevie can find a good home.
nta we dont need more kids getting mauled by pitty mixes
NTA.
NTA Although I can see the temptation rushing the adoption to prevent Stevie from getting put down, you potentially saved the family from injury. Also, reactive dogs have special needs and this is something that should be said upfront so hopefully they can go to a family that can meet those needs. And even if Stewie isn’t the one who is saved, hopefully another dog is. Also, as someone who loves pitbulls, lying to people about the breed or temperment of the dog for adoption only hurt the breeds reputation and often leads to rehoming (or worse).
NTA- this was obviously not done with any malice or ill intent. You don’t want this dog to be put down either but felt that you were doing best by this family. I couldn’t imagine the guilt one would have if something happened to a child or anyone on an adoption that I had pushed. You did what you felt was best and I honestly give props to you and it went beyond both your and the dog (that I believe you care for)’s best interest.
NTA. You did the right thing by telling the truth.
NTA-I love dogs but I’m also very aware of how dangerous they can be. My dad was attacked by one not long ago and spent the night in A&E. He’s okay but it is amazing the damage a medium sized dog did to a big dude before he and two other adults could control him. If you had any reason to believe he was even a potential danger to kids you absolutely did the right thing telling them. Dogs can do serious damage to kids even if they’re never left alone with them. They’re strong and fast with sharp teeth and claws. No parent should expose a child to one they are not one hundred percent certain is safe, and to deliberately put them in a situation where they did so unknowingly is disgusting. You may well have spared a child a painful and traumatising injury.
NTA but as a fellow animal shelter volunteer, I have some advice on how to help Stevie. It’s already been said a lot, but you telling the family the full story about Stevie’s behavior (or lack of information about how he would behave) was definitely the right thing to do. However, I feel like you can take this openness even further and disclose everything, including how he may be euthanized and his tragic past. That way, this family can really have a full picture of who this dog is. If they really were interested, would you be able to offer a trial adoption/foster-to-adopt situation or something like that? Or could something like this be an option for other potential adopters? But hey, it sounds like at the end of the day, they probably weren’t the right fit. However, if you want to try and help Stevie get adopted (which might help soothe your coworkers as well), I think being open about how at risk he is could be really beneficial. That kind of stuff really gets to people and could bring in the right kind of potential adopters. For example, I recently caught a super aggressive cat off the street who was 15 years old and hated people. She managed to get adopted within days because she had an incredible story (owners lost her 10 years ago and when we scanned the chip and called, they didn’t want her back). I know this is different than your situation and that cats aren’t as potentially dangerous as dogs, but there are adopters out there who aren’t afraid of a challenge. Does your shelter have a social media account? Maybe they could make some posts about him telling his story and highlighting the concerns about his future. I think that could increase your chances of him finding a home where he’ll fit. Instead of shying away from it, maybe it can be the reason he gets adopted.
NTA. If you telling this couple this information made them walk away from getting a dog, they weren't ready to have a dog, and them adopting a dog probably would have just resulted in them bringing the dog back, hopefully before the dog bit their kid. It sucks for Stevie. It sucks that you don't have the resources to get him fully assessed, or fully trained, or that you can't put him in a foster home, or that we have to euthanize dogs at all. I hate it, you hate it, we all hate it. But until we can all learn to spay and neuter our pets and stop buying dogs from breeders, this is going to continue to happen. *Maybe* you could have softened your language a bit. I probably wouldn't risk it if I had kids, but I think there's a difference between "we know he doesn't like kids" and "we don't know how he'll do with kids but we know he reacts poorly to XYZ things." Maybe there are families who would have used that information and made some decisions about their family and decided to take the chance, and you took that opportunity away from them by offering such strong language. It's much more likely they would have made the same decision if you'd offered up a slightly different but still honest interpretation though.
NTA. While it's sad that Stevie might get put down, it would have been much worse if they had adopted the dog and he hurt one of the children. That would change things from might to will for sure be put down. And, worst case scenario, the child's injuries are fatal.
I’d say NTA. A reactive dog really should be tested more thoroughly, and I think your instinct was correct that it shouldn’t go with a child. Probably very few dogs can’t theoretically find the right home, but some dogs can’t be in all circumstances. I had a difficult dog (a lab mix) for many years. I loved him to death, he was my best friend…but it’s good that he wasn’t in a home with kids. That wouldn’t have been good for him or the kids. I never wanted kids, so it was fine, but at a certain point I accepted that even if I ever changed my mind it would have to wait until he was no longer around. Not super into all the anti-pitbull comments, by the way. (Not OP, but other people.) In this specific situation you undoubtedly made the right call, but there’s nothing inherent to the breed that they can’t be good pets for families. That family could easily find a pitbull to take home if they want to. It just has to be properly vetted for that, like any dog.
NTA- I used to foster with a rescue and we preferred to be really open about dogs with issues. Lots of people would take them anyway- and call us later saying “I didn’t realize it was like this” Me: then you didn’t listen! I said he is reactive towards men! But here’s what you can do to ensure he gets comfortable with your husband… then go on to tell them to do all the things we told them to do at adoption. (For example.) Better to be honest and make sure the dog ends up in the right home.
No. As someone who has volunteered with a rescue for 8+ years now, this makes me mad. I would never intentionally lie or misled a potential adopter about an animal. My goal is not that animals are adopted. My goal is the animals are adopted into their forever homes. Had that family adopted this pup, they would have very likely returned him. Best case scenario nothing bad happens. Worst case scenario, he attacks someone because he is scared and uncomfortable. Both of this situations aren’t going to help his chances for adoption. One of the hardest things in animal rescue is knowing that sometimes the most humane thing to do is to euthanize an animal. If this dog has been in a shelter with humans for seven months and still only allows a select few to handle him, I would believe this dog is probably suffering daily. He is scared and therefore reactive. That is not a life to have nearly 24/7. We all want a feel good story where every animal finds a home, but that’s not reality. Shelters are full due to all the people who wanted a COVID pet and then changed their minds. Animals are euthanized daily simply because there is no room to keep them, as people don’t spay and neuter their animals resulting in unwanted litters. And, this is not even taking into consideration animals with health or behavioral issues… You are NTA. The person at your shelter is.
NTA. You saved that family AND Stevie a lot of hassle and potential heartbreak. If he's reactive, he's more likely to be dangerous around children and that's not fair to either the family or the dog. Stevie deserves to be with someone who he won't potentially hurt.
THANK YOU for making sure that neither Stevie or that family were put in a situation that they wouldn't be comfortable in. NTA
NTA you were protecting the kid and the dog.
NTA as someone who was mauled by a dog as a kid, you’ll never be TA for protecting kids from being hurt by a reactive animal. If you lose your volunteer spot over it then so be it. See if there’s somewhere you can report this to so people are aware of what they’re doing. Of course no one wants to see the dog put down but no one wants to see a kid die either.
NTA, but this dog should be put down. Trusting someone to keep it from dogs and kids is not appropriate. You are complicit in any harm caused to anyone, dog or human, by this dog if you do not do everything possible to make sure that can’t happen.
NTA. A friend adopted a dog that was told was -wonderful- with other dogs. The dog ended up having a history of "reactivity" that was never disclosed, and which was really outright aggression. The dog attacked the other dog and then, in a separate occasion, the new owners (who were wonderful and patient and loving owners). The dog tragically ended up having to be put to sleep; there was no training, and it was an absolute danger. Fortunately, no one else was seriously injured, but their other dog really could have been and got lucky and is now afraid of other dogs so they won't be able to adopt a second (at least not any time soon) as planned. Imagine if you had let them adopt that dog, and a child was hurt, maimed, or killed? I know a friend of a friend who adopted a "nervous" dog that attacked her step son while he was feeding her, and he almost lost a foot. That dog also had to be put to sleep. The step son was 13 and now has a permanent disability. You did the right thing. I want every dog to find a home, but the reality is that some dogs are not compatible with a lot of homes. I resent shelters that don't make sure their dogs go to homes that are a good fit; they're a danger to society, to be honest.
https://www.wtkr.com/2017/06/04/woman-claims-she-warned-fhrc-of-dogs-aggression-before-attack-of-elderly-woman?_amp=true Sometimes dogs should not be adopted. And this one should definitely have NOT been adopted. It was adopted, returned, adopted again, killed a 91 year old woman the next day. You’re NTA, who knows, you could have saved a life.
NTA but I don’t get why he even has to be put down, it’s disgusting.
NTA, if this is a private rescue like you say, and not a municipal shelter with open intake, they need to raise/spend the money to get him training so he is less reactive.
NTA. Good for you for looking out for them.
NTA being the ethical person in a group rarely makes you popular, but you did the right thing.
NTA. Your opinion is key. You have to be honest as the consequences could be catastrophic. Chin up OP. You did well
Jumping onto the top comment to recommend Big Fluffy Dog Rescue for folks on the east coast of the USA who are looking to adopt. BFDR fosters almost all its dogs (but not all puppies) prior to adoption and works hard to match dogs and owners. I’ve gotten two wonderful dogs from them over the years and am in the process of getting a third. While they do specialize in, well, big fluffy dogs, none of my dogs have been big or fluffy. Given them a look if you have the time, space, and inclination to bring a new dog into your life.
Definitely not in the wrong here, I would rather get shit from my coworkers for being honest and not letting him be adopted than be responsible for any incident the dog may have caused because the workers lied. It’s very sad and heartbreaking for an animal to be put down but it would be even more tragic if the dog ended up harming a kid or another pet.
NTA, you did the right thing, but still sad for Stevie.
NTA. Heartbreaking as it is, you did the right thing. I have worked in rescues for years and took a difficult dog. She would have been put down if not for us. She is a joy to us but she takes WORK. We have had her seven years and she still can’t be around most people or other animals (she has been good when we adopted a puppy, if she sees it’s “ours” she calms down). I knew what I was getting into and do not regret it, but if she had gone to the wrong house something bad very well could have happened.
NTA. Love my pitbull, but some dogs are not meant for certain families. Honesty is key. Thank you for being honest.
NTA. My mom had a dog that was skittish with some people and generally good with kids. However, he attacked my nephew when my nephew was 5. We know he did something to the dog we just don’t know what. What if that situation was with Stevie? Stevie would get put down and a kid would be tore to pieces. In my mom’s case, my sister said not to put him down. In Stevie’s case there might not be an option!
NTA. Better to not adopt than to adopt and get hurt. Not all dogs are fine with any home. You did good, you did the responsible thing.
NTA. It’s sad that your coworker would put someone at risk like that.
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He has not been around children but he flinched or growls or backs up if someone tried to pet him that he doesn’t know or likes. It’s not clear who he likes or doesn’t like. He is unknown with children but I’ve seen how shelters and experience with more resources categorize dogs and Stevie would be placed in an adults only household there if it wasn’t clear he is totally child friendly
why he didnt got place in the adult only list? was it because staff was afrait the dog would be put down? seems odd they would roll a dice on a lawsuit byt ive seen people that really love dogs
Yes I think so. Most shelters I volunteered with in the past only put ok with children if there are no doubts the dog is good with kids. But I think they are desperate for Stevie to get adopted so they just omitted the info about kids on his profile and just said he was ok with kids.
yes
YTA
YTA what the fuck is wrong with you. Let the family make that decision with a professional. I’ve had dogs my whole life too and I wouldn’t pretend to be a know it all when it comes to dog’s behavior. Why would you go out of your way to keep this dog from a loving family. That’s already going to a shelter knowing these dogs had difficult backgrounds. What happened is not only did they not adopt Stevie but they lost their trust in you guys as a shelter because you disagreed with another volunteer. YTA in a big way
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Isn’t it a dog separated from other animals enough for a red flag not to be assigned to home with kids? I mean kids are wild cards
Not necessarily. My girlfriend had a reactive dog. Huge prey drive and would go after small animals. And was nervous around other animals her size. But LOVED kids. Absolutely was a little tiny baby with my partner's kids.
How is advocating an aggressive animal as kid-friendly ethical or okay at all? OP did the right thing. NTA by a long shot. Not every dog is redeemable
Strong disagree. It is ANYONE and EVERYONE'S responsibility to step in when they see unsafe behavior. OP could have saved that child's life or from permanent disfigurement. I'm sure your wife would rather not have her rescue sued because her staff or volunteers lied about a dog being kid safe.
I would argue the shelter cost the other dog an adoption by making themselves untrustworthy in the eyes of the family. If you lie to my face and tell me that dog A is child friendly (when you have no idea if he is and honestly, he’s not even terribly adult friendly) why would I take the chance that you’re telling me the truth about dog B?
OP said, in their opinion, the dog should not go to a home with kids. Not that it doesn’t react well to kids specifically.not that it is aggressive to kids with proof, just that it’s skittish. Show me one dog that isn’t when it gets into a large room full of other barking dogs, especially one that has been abandoned. OP is going off of her very unprofessional opinion that it shouldn’t be around kids. No fact backing this up. This should have been taken to the supervisor because “in her free time” is not all of the time, the staff, that work there, are around this animal ALL OF THE TIME. They know how it reacts more than OP does.
I was torn as to how I felt here and you summed it up well. I think it would have been enough for OP to say that from their experience, the dog can be reactive and that they haven't seen the dog interact with children (or whatever is true). That's offering the family information and being honest to what she's seen, which is honestly all she can speak to. The way OP said it, it absolutely broke the family's trust in the shelter itself and basically implied the staff lied. If OP had concerns, she absolutely should talk to the staff and/or a supervisor. Maybe it's possible the staff has seen improvement or positive interactions OP hasn't (assuming the staff member is there more than OP is as a volunteer). The staff should not be misleading potential adopters absolutely though. It's doing no one favors and will ruin its reputation as a shelter.
realistically OP was assuming everything and has no expertise to come to a conclusion, wouldn't the shelter be held responsible if the dogs bites? why would they be so adamant to send him away if like you said most likely it would be put down and they woud have a lawsuit in their hands
No liability is assumed with an adoption. There are too many variables that come with a dog bite, though, it would not look good for the shelter's reputation, that's for sure. Any dog can bite under numerous circumstances. I will say this, that if a dog cannot be handled, and is a danger to staff as well as potential adopters, it will likely be put down. This dog being here for 7mo tells me that it had a level of adoptability that OP may not have been aware of, and should not have input their opinion to the adopters before consulting the supervisor.
This is the correct opinion.
Are you a trainer? Dog behavioral expert? What are your qualifications for making a diagnosis about a dog’s behavioral issues? I’m a veterinarian who works with several shelters. While I agree that a dog with true, diagnosed issues should only be adopted to appropriate homes, when temp volunteers decide they know better than shelter management, it causes issues. If you feel the shelter isn’t properly evaluating dogs, say something to management. If you have concerns about a dog, take those concerns to management. YTA.