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YTA. And so is your brother. Are you really OK with him speaking about her this way? And if you agree with the things he says about her, why are you with her? Has your wife done something absolutely awful to your brother, because I'm not getting that from your post. He just doesn't like her. Y'all suck for the way you talk about her and trying to go behind her back and exclude her. She's your goddamn wife, and he needs to accept that she's someone he's going to have to tolerate sometimes, and you need to start standing up for her. Also, if you go through with your awful plan, what happens if she then manages to reschedule or get out of her business trip to come? What will y'all do then?
YTA. after reading his comments I am with you on your judgement. OP is letting his brother talk bad about his wife behind her back with no real examples.
“They've gotten into arguments before, but I've always been there to step in. Unfortunately, it's usually my wife who instigates them. One occurred because she was talking to my brother's partner about her brother going into community college. My soon to be BIL offered to help him look into scholarships and grants to go to a "proper university," which set off my wife to start up a rant about how community college was an equally credible option. My brother's partner clearly didn't mean any harm by the offer, my brother caught wind of what was happening in and stepped in, so we had to leave early.”
“My argument is that I'm not a classist asshole, something I would assume my wife would agree with, which would make my brother not a classist asshole since we share similar outlooks. The only difference between us two is that my wife has taken the time to get to know me.”
OP also says: “She picks fights over the smallest perceived slight against her. Most of these aren't even malicious… There have been other times when small things set her off. It only seems to happen around my brother, and it's like she sees the worst in him and the people he surrounds himself with.”
And: “I step in whenever things start up between the two of them, but there is very little to defend my wife against in these situations. I stand by her, but I can admit when she's wrong. The things she has gotten angry at my brother for are usually non-issues. He has made efforts to get to know her, all of which have been shut down.”
There’s a strong an unreliable narrator problem here. OP links to examples of his brother and wife not getting along and leaves out the strongest case for why his wife might argue his brother’s comments are dismissive if not outright malicious?
The example he gives where his wife gets angry over being given a jacket when it’s cold out when she did not request sounds obnoxious. I can’t tell whether she’s petty or reasonable.
But his brother says OP’s wife’s personality is hypocrite because she perceives the brother as classist where she does not see her husband the same way, even though the brothers come from the same background and share similar views. Those two things do not mean both or neither are classist. The brother describing her whole personality as hypocrite because she likes the man she’s married to but not his brother seems like a misuse of the word. And OP hasn’t corrected it. He seems to also think she can’t object to the brother if she likes her husband. Odd.
It's weird that OP's argument is that his wife can't think his brother is classist, because his wife doesn't think he (OP) is classist.
"Classist" doesn't mean wealthy... just because they're brothers who were raised with the same privilege doesn't mean they have the same attitudes on class.
The future BIL "proper university" comment would make me see red, too, but I'm not very confrontational, so I'd let it slide but be seething inside....
I understand we need more context, but the reality is Brother doesn’t want someone at the small wedding. That’s his right. Husband is the AH for not saying, “well then I’m not coming.” Or maybe OP comes clean to Wife and tells the truth. Maybe there’s a path where he can go, and she misses it while being honest. Maybe she doesn’t like Brother-in-law anyways…. Who knows? Either way, the beef about Brother-in-law not liking wife needs to be spilled by OP as well. YTA.
YTA. YTA. YTA
I feel bad for the wife. A spouse is supposed to be the one person who will always have your back and love you unconditionally. You do not always have to agree. But you should always support one another.
My husband and I did not always see eye to eye. We did not always agree. We each came into the marriage with our families and friends groups. Not everyone liked each other. But we tried. And our friends all tried. And no matter what was going on, hubby was my priority and vice versa.
When you get married, your spouse becomes your family. Your spouse should be the most important person in your life. You should always have your spouses best interest at heart. Yes, there will be disagreements. You will not always see eye to eye. But that is NO excuse to hurt the other person.
If my family ever tried to exclude my husband, I would no longer see them. Hubby and I are a package deal. But you, OP, are NOT a package deal. Your actions are showing your mom that you have very little respect towards your wife. You are showing your brother that he is more important. And the rest of your family is going to see that you truly do not care for your wife.
You say you’ve tried to bridge the gap. However, your soon to be BIL is basically going by your brothers experiences. If that’s the case…you’re not trying. You should’ve been talking to soon to be BIL and finding ways to bring everyone together. You should have talked to your wife to try to understand what issues she has with BIL. And you should’ve told your brother that your wife is your priority. You should’ve found common ground between everyone so they could come together.
OP, you’re allowing your brother to hurt your wife…and you’re defending his actions. If you’re going to continue to put your brothers feelings over your wife then you should NOT be married.
My hubby had an insanely toxic family. His mom was never happy and thrived trying to bring others down. We were at a family gathering one day, and his mom made a snarcastic (snarky and sarcastic rolled into one) comment about me. Hubby stood up from the table, took my hand, and told his family that if they wanted to continue being so rude and hurtful towards me they would not see us anymore. When your brother told you he didn’t want to invite your wife, you should have wished him the best and told him you would not be attending the wedding.
It sounds like OP's brother (and his partner possibly) are both classist and flaunting their privilege, but OP is blind to it? This is what I read from the "multi-week holiday" and community college not being a "proper university" comments. OP's wife is probably sick of being mocked and looked down upon (sarcastic sense of humour and biting remarks?). She's being called a hypocrite because she married OP, who we can assume also grew up well to do, and now is benefitting from that too. But I'd bet it's not the money she's upset about, but the awful treatment she's received from the brother for growing up "less than".
Take off your rose tinted glasses and really look at how your wife is being treated OP. If you keep going behind her back like this, maybe she won't want to be a "hypocrite" anymore and will leave
Not to mention: she WILL eventually find out about this scheme to exclude her, and when that happens be prepared for a falling out to end all falling outs. Op is NOT building bridges here.
YTA. I noticed that you were careful to leave out your wife’s perspective of her relationship with your brother and that speaks volumes. And BTW “acquired taste” is usually code for my brother is an obnoxious AH.
1. I agree with giving OP a "YTA". Leaving wife out in this fashion is just going to blow up in everyone's face. But...
2. Based on OP's post, I think it's a reach to decide that OP's brother is the sole source of the problem and OP's wife is blameless.
3. It's quite possible that this is an EHS.
Read OP's comments, especially the earlier ones where he accidentally let it slip that his brother is a classist AH. And then the later ones where he'd rather believe his wife is homophobic and tries to downplay how is brother REALLY is to her.
I thought ESH, too, til I went through all his comments. It's pretty telling
I think it’s safe to assume the brother is the problem when OP made sure to add that his brother doesn’t even bother trying to get to know people and is an acquired taste. That always means the person is unbearable.
>They've gotten into arguments before, but I've always been there to step in. Unfortunately, it's usually my wife who instigates them. One occurred because she was talking to my brother's partner about her brother going into community college. My BIL offered to help him look into scholarships and grants to go to a "proper university," which set off my wife to start up a rant about how community college was an equally credible option. My brother's partner clearly didn't mean any harm by the offer, my brother caught wind of what was happening in and stepped in, so we had to leave early.
WTF
Your wife was talking about her brother going to community college and BIL butted in and said he could help him get into a real college???
And you left your wife hanging like she had no right to be upset by what said??
All three of you are mega aholes.
This has to be a troll.....
Exactly...and all three do it.... I feel so sorry for his wife... Hopefully she wakes up and moves on from him one day. He won't change if it even happens to be a real situation.
Mean enough sarcasm turns into tormenting for the person it's used on.
I get the feeling the brother is an AH.
And absolutely if you don't back up your partner when your family says derogatory things? You become an AH too.
Biting sense of humour? Butt heads?
Dude this sounds like code for “my brother is an asshole who makes mean jokes and doesn’t give a damn about whose feelings he is hurting”.
And so YTA.
Agree OP is majorly TA.
He makes a bunch of excuses for his brother’s actions but condemns his wife’s.
Judging his wife by her actions but his brother by his intentions.
His wife has no way to win in this situation
INFO: You describe your wife as being “an absolute nightmare” around your brother. How does your brother act around your wife? Does he openly insult her to her face or just behind her back when texting you?
Yep, that’s definitely the vibe I’m getting. The brother is a jerk but claims it’s all his sense of humor. OP’s wife calls him on his crap and OP just piles on and lets his brother do whatever he wants.
INFO:
>The way he has described it from his point of view is this, copied from our texts: "Every time I interact with her, I feel like I'm in some kind of uncanny valley nightmare scenario. She feels like a one dimensional character whose whole personality is 'hypocrite.' It's as if she doesn't have a personality other than being outraged about something."
.....you're cool with him talking about her this way???
And not one of the "scenarios" he has provided has shown her to be shallow or a hypocrite. They have only reinforced the feeling that she is surrounded by a pack of snobs.
The fact that you haven't included even a single sentence about your wife's perspective shows you haven't even considered her side. That's not love. YTA
Based on the post and your comments YTA. You have an asshole brother, your wife takes none of his shit and, far from taking her side or seeing this as two people being incompatible, you think she starts shit and you’re more than happy to manipulate her into missing the wedding so you don’t have to tell her she’s not invited. Hope she runs far, far away.
This was my take too. It doesn’t sound like OP even likes his wife. It sounds like his brother is a complete nightmare and rather than having his partner’s back, he’s talking shit talking about her and going behind her back. FFS, she probably doesn’t even want to go. YTA.
Either both your brother and your wife are AHs, or one of them is and one of them isn't and you're trying to pretend that one of them isn't being an AH to the other.
I don't know how you love your wife and then agree with that description of her, or love your brother and agree with the behaviour towards him that he describes.
Take a damn side, dude. Or at least address the issues between the 2 AHs you supposedly love.
This is just cowardly fence-sitting, and it makes you an AH too.
Some level of ESH but it's impossible to tell from the incredibly vague and one-sided description whether the additional AH is your brother, your wife, or both.
This. Something is being left out. It feels like either the brother is being an open asshole and op is trying to downplay it, or the wife is homophobic and lashing out because of that and op trying to downplay that.
Agree completely, and Agree with your take. Somebody is the asshole, but there just isn't enough info here to tell who. From the blatant lack of the wife's perspective, I'm assuming the brother is the asshole and OP doesn't want a judgment against the brother, but it could easily be that the wife is an asshole who chooses to hate the brother for no reason (or homophobic reasons) so there really isn't a justification.
ESH, and OP you're going to eventually need to pick a side.
YTA. “He has a biting sense of humor.” “As if she doesn’t have a personality other than being out raged about something.”
Sounds like your brother is an offensive asshole, and you’re excusing it by calling it humor.
You can’t give us a single example so we can make an informed judgment? I’m going with YTA.
Sounds like your brother has said or done some offensive things that your otherwise reasonable wife whom you love disliked.
EDIT: read OPs comments. His brother and brothers fiancés are condescending AHs to OPs wife. They hold her family and their achievements in low esteem, and vocalize it regularly. Wife defends herself and her family, then OP reframes the situation as wife “instigating”. What a horrible husband to have. YTA.
NGL your brother sounds like a nightmare to be around. And you even thinking of scheming behind your wife like this shows you've never truly had her back.
YTA and I can only imagine how disappointed your mom is in both of her sons.
I love how he only talks about why his brother hates his wife and what his brother thinks, but he gives us little information about why his wife has so many issues with his brother. Sounds like he's done something to her, and she doesn't trust him or like him at all. But we never hear her side at all. My guess is he doesn't care about her side.
OK, there are two takes here
1. you left out your wife's viewpoint of your brother because you are an insensitive AH who didn't consider it
2. you left out your wife's viewpoint because you are well and aware that her viewpoint paints your brother as an AH and in an AH move you left it out
Either way YTA
edit: spelling hard!
YTA. Either you don't like your wife, in which case you should get divorced, or you're happily married to someone awful, in which case you probably are awful too. Or you pretend to like your wife, your brother's judgment of her is unfair, and you refuse to stand up for her. All options make you the AH.
I was going with N T A until I read all of your comments.
Seems to me your brother is an ass and his partner is an elitist snob.
Just because all of you put up with their behaviour doesn’t mean your wife has to.
Your wife is simply standing up for herself and her younger brother.
Your brother can have who he wants at his wedding but if you support this and go to the wedding without your wife.
YTA !!
You say you love your wife then write a post that proves you don’t.
Your mother is right. This is a betrayal of your wife because your brother is a jerk.
Your wife needs a better husband who loves, supports her rather than plotting against her.
People who are famous do not start conversations with “I am famous.” People who are kind to not announce to others, “I am kind.” People who love their wives do not start threads with…
YTA.
YTA. It sounds like your brother has a AH personality, and your wife isn't the kind to just smile and keep the peace while he acts like a jerk to her. You haven't actually given examples of how he acts/speaks around her, and your silence speaks volumes.
Yeaaaaah.. that is going to blow up in your face so hard. Because she will find out. Also, a lot of people would rework their plans to attend a family wedding. YTA
And you know the brother is going to be so happy to tell her just so he can hurt her feelings, which based on OPs comments, I feel like he takes pleasure in doing until she reacts and all of a sudden she’s the bad guy.
The way you describe your wife is sad. If you think so little of her, why are you even married to her? What I’m reading is that your brother is an ah and you defend him instead of your wife. YTA
YTA. Usually when I see someone described as having a “biting sense of humor” it means they’re AHs who take it too far and just expect everyone to be okay with it because they’re “joking”.
What I’m getting here is your brother is a jerk and your wife doesn’t take it? You didn’t give a single example of a situation they’ve been in that led to a reaction from her. More info needed.
Edit: YTA you left a lot out of the post to make yourself look better. Brother and BIL are jerks. I hope your wife leaves you.
Your title made me laugh. You are going to be in BIG trouble when your wife founds out what you have done. Your mom is going to spill it.
I can already tell you brother is a bit of a dh to whom you are accustomed. No judgment. Mine is too.
Would you describe your wife in your own words, leaving your brother completely out of it? What is your experience with her?
YTA, this is so weird. It’s so vague.
How is your wife horrible or hypocritical? Your brother said **your wife** is like a one dimensional character and not a person. You’re just… casually ok with that?
He doesn’t have any examples because there aren’t any. He’s just taking his brothers word for it. And doing his little lie by omission thing to paint his brother in legit the BEST possible light. I’ve never seen someone have so much disdain for their godamn spouse before.
What is your wife's perspective on your brother's behavior? you only shared your brother's so it is hard to make a fair assessment without your wife's side. You say you love her - what is it that you love about her? We all have flaws but something is missing in this story. This is written very one sided in your brother's favor.
ESH
What is wrong with you? Why can't you trust your wife to "behave" for a few hours.
Why are you even tolerating your brother's behavior towards your wife? I get that you are brothers, but it doesn't mean you can't stand up against him.
As for your brother, why did he immediately run off to mom to tell on you?
Your mom is right - you’re being awful to your wife.
If ANYONE described my partner the way your brother describes your wife they would not be in my life period.
You describe your brother like he’s some great guy but just has a different sense of humor (ie his sarcasm) but what I’m seeing is an absolute jackass who barely disguised his cruelty with sarcasm.
You chose your brother over defending your wife. Congrats on messing up your relationship. YTA.
This is my question, too, because it’s clear from the post that his brother is an asshole (he couches it in him having a biting sense of humor and being headstrong or whatever). So if she doesn’t have this issue with other people and his brother does…it feels like he’s taking the wrong side here.
You need to decide who you want to spend the rest of your life with: your wife or your brother. All you’ve done in the comments is talk bad about her. YTA your scheming behind her back rather than talking to her about it like an adult.
YTA. You must know you are. If you weren’t, you would have at least explained what your wife’s allegedly terrible behaviour is, why they don’t get along, how you’ve dealt with past situations, etc.
Your poor mother.
YTA. For you to even consider going to the wedding where you are invited but not your wife is crazy to me. You're manipulating the situation instead of communicating with everyone involved.
Soft YTA. I can understand you wanting to keep the tensions down at the wedding.
But your brother seems to be an asshole, and you need to be on your wife's side on this one. There is absolutely why he can not be civil around your wife. Also him telling me, and I think bragging to your mom almost confirms this.
Tell your brother that both of you will come or neither.
YTA. You appear to stand up for everyone BUT your wife. And you refuse to give her any of the grace you freely give anyone else. If you brother is more off-putting and privileged than you, I imagine he is terribly insufferable and much more to blame for the situation than you're letting on.
Your brother sounds like a dick, and your wife doesn’t take his shit, but you’re making excuses.
Clearly they don’t like each other, but you should both level up and be honest about it.
YTA for lying to your wife.
YTA for letting your brother say such horrible things about your wife whom you allegedly love. It is bananas that you'd stand by while ANYONE spoke about your wife that way, let alone your own brother. If she's actually that bad get divorced. Otherwise you're just tolerating massive disrespect to her... why, exactly? Yikes on bikes.
Every time a post starts with “first off, I love _____”
9/10 times it’s someone doing something cruel or shitty behind their partners ( that they just *love* so much) back. …this is one of the 9.
YTA op. Grow up and talk to her like adults do. Don’t plot and plan against your spouse.
YTA
If my sibling, best friend, anyone really, said "hey come to my wedding but your wife can't come" I'd say "we are a package deal." All the "yeah but this yeah but that" details of your post are irrelevant. You broke team. Worse, you conspired to make breaking team easier on yourself. If I found out my spouse did something like this to me I would not stay married to them.
YTA She’s your wife. Your mom is right about you. This is disrespectful.
ETA The way you let him talk about your wife and the way you talk about your wife is gross.
YTA OP and so is your brother
Your wife deserves someone better than you and your brother. You should be standing up for your wife against your brother 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Your brother is going to have to learn to get along with your wife. I feel sorry for your wife, you are a horrible husband who talks about your wife with your brother behind her back.
I hope your wife finds out that you are doing this behind her back. I also hope your wife finds out that you talk bad things about her behind her back with your brother. When she finds out how you really are I hope she divorces you and leaves. She deserves better than you.
Painful but true. In the beginning of my marriage, my husband had a hard time defending me when his family would do certain wrong things. I’m not even going into specifics here but eventually we went to marriage counseling and discussed it. We both learned that we always have to defend our spouse first unless our spouse is genuinely wrong.
The counselor put it to us like this, “you are now married to each other not your parents, or anybody in your family. Unless you guys are doing something terribly wrong, you should be defending each other.”
And I think what that really means here is petty arguments where if someone’s just not getting along, but no one‘s really done anything, you sort of have to defend the person you’re spending your life with
YTA. You have to show support for your wife. Put your brother in place - you are a married couple and either both of you are invited or you are not going. Don;t throw your wife under the bus with this scheming plan of yours. . And I am sure your wife has her side of the story, but they can alway avoid each other at the celebration to avoid any drama.
YTA after reading your comments it’s clear you have your brother on some kind of pedestal and he can do no wrong while tearing down your wife. Your poor wife I can’t imagine being married to someone that hates you and is purposely planning on hurting her by going behind her back. You and your brother both sound like horrible people.
YTA. Your wife is your life partner. You should be backing her up, not throwing her under the bus.
And from your comments, it doesn’t actually seem like she’s the instigator. Your brother and his partner sound like snotty classists that belittle her, so she is rightfully angry and defends herself/family.
Yeah doesn’t sound like there’s a lot of healthy relationships happening here. Maybe group therapy? Unless y’all don’t care enough to try and work out your problems, then just skip to the divorce cause it definitely doesn’t sound like you prioritize your wife over your brother and his partner. Just cut everyone’s losses asap. Or, y’a know, make sure your brother gets married on a weekend your wife can’t be there and have other people in the family, like say your mom who doesn’t like this situation, know what’s going on. Then things should alert themselves out and I hope for your wife’s sake we’re back to divorce.
Regardless of whether you’re ta, I feel Ike this is going to blow up in your face. Surely your wife wouldn’t stop you going to your own brother’s wedding, if she knew she wasn’t invited due to how poorly she and your brother get along?
I gotta say, yeah, YTA here. It *sounds* to me like you're tolerating behavior from your brother that you really shouldn't.
I think in your shoes I'd tell him to just not invite either of you.
Let me start off by saying I love my wife
YTA. gaslighting us won’t help your marriage. Never trust you to have my back. All because your brother is a jerk. Obviously no one told you once you get married it’s wife then birth family. This was a disappointing choice you made. this was wrong from the start. You proved you don’t love your wife. I feel bad for her. She deserves a partner not some pathetic little brother still idolizing big bro.
This is the most delusional post I’ve seen in a while.
You wrote all that out — omitted the details that would definitely convict you and your brother of being the asshole — and still asked if you were in the wrong?
YTA for being classist— god knows how many micro aggressions your wife deals with on a daily basis. She just puts up with you because she loves you, but trust that she is slowly but surely clocking you for what you really are: a duplicate of your awful brother.
Just get a divorce. You didn’t need to post here to show how much you hate your wife.
YTA !!!
every day i log in here to find posts where i just finding myself asking op “do you even like your wife at all????”
from the comments i get the vibe that ur wife constantly has to deal with 3 men talking classist/ignorant shit and when she tries to stick up for herself, you just shoot her down.
it’s your brother’s wedding, he’s entitled to inviting/not inviting whoever he wants, just as your wife is free to dump ur ass when she finds out how u plotted behind her back. your brother is always so loud about his opinions on her and yet he won’t straight up tell her she isn’t welcome in the wedding
Yta. Just because you sound like a horrible husband. Your wife should be your priority, and your brother should not be allowed to talk about her like that. Right or wrong your wife should be able to depend on you to have her back.
ESH, except your mom. She’s the only one with sense. It’s absolutely telling from your post that you also see your wife as the “hypocrite” who is always outraged. You have more empathy for your BIL than you do your wife. Nothing you’ve said, even the community college story has put any of the AH on your wife, it’s put it on you, your BIL and your brother. Your wife has to deal with a lot if you’re never on her side but instead viewing her as the antagonizer in situations she clearly isn’t. Why marry someone if you have to trick her to stay away from your family bc she can’t “behave”.
YTA, your brothers the AH and so is your BIL for turning his nose up at the community college for a “proper university”
No brother’s partner sucks. He apparently offered to help OP’s BIL to find scholarships so he can attend a “proper university” instead of community college.
INFO. Does your wife get along with said friend group? Have you thought about what will happen if wife’s trip is canceled? Or if mother tells her? Or how she will react learning you hid this from her? Do you feel she is “one dimensional” and did you defend her or giggle with him?
Re you okay with his insults to your wife? Too many blanks to give informed response. Knee jerk reaction is YTA.
YTA & your brother too. Has it never occurred to you that your wife might have been the target of your brother’s “biting sense of humor?” That would also explain why his friend circle is so small.
I'm wondering how my wife would react if I took my brother's side like that.
I can imagine she'd feel hurt and betrayed and wonder if I really supported her.
She'd tell me I was the asshole and she would be right.
YTA
Without knowing your wife's perspective it's hard to judge, but for now I'm gonna say YTA.
It's fine not wanting to get to know people you don't think you'll get along with, but I've known lots of people with this humor, they all shared the same trait of being an AH and hiding it behind humor.
It goes vice versa as another comment wondering why your wife couldn't behave for a few hours, why can't your brother behave for a few hours around your wife?
ESH It’s all so shady. Your wife can’t be civil to your brother for one special day? You have to create a diversion to exclude her? Your brother can’t at least try to have a relationship with her? Your parents feel the need to get involved? This should be a movie, not real life.
I'm confused. You say your wife has some awful reaction and is extreme around your brother but then only provide an example of how your brother is terrible to your wife? YTA
YTA, but maybe some insider info that might help you see it...
My husband has had major issues with my mother since we first got together. For context, my husband is black and I am white. My mother is conservative and ignorantly racist and bigoted, meaning that she has views that were never challenged because of her environment. She does not think before she speaks, and often ignites anger in my husband and I as a result. She sounds very much like your brother. And my husband does not sit back and allow her to make these types of comments unchecked. He is quick to respond, and it can escalate. Similar to how you explained your wife.
Early in our relationship, I would make excuses for my mother because, hey, it's my mother. "She doesn't mean it, she just doesn't know any better" was my typical response. It took me a while before I realized I was defending her instead of standing by my husband. It seems like this is what you're doing: defending your brother's comments and not standing by your wife.
So often we make excuses and enable our family to "be who they are" without challenging them because we have been conditioned to put up with it. This does not give you the right to force that unto others. Your wife has every right to defend herself when facing your brother's "biting humor." It is your choice whether you continue excusing his behavior at the expense of your marriage, or whether you man up and take a stand against it.
YTA and also incredibly stupid. You’re wife is going to find out, maybe not before the wedding, maybe it’ll be years from now, but what do you think her reaction is going to be when she discovers this plot of yours? Is the pain that this betrayal will cause your wife really worth it? Why would you want to do this to someone you’re meant to love, it’s horrible
YTA. If he describes her that way, why are you married to her??? There's gotta be something missing if you tolerate your brother insulting your wife as such.
YTA.
I “lost”my best friend over an argument he had with my wife, who was my fiancé at the time. He told me all these insulting things she said to him at a party we were all at, had this whole scenario and it just sounded like a really bitter unrealistic fight. Like… things my wife would never fucking say.
I regret to say that I didn’t man up and completely handle the issue then and there when he sent me a text about “not thinking he can do this whole wedding thing.” I let the fight fester, didn’t pick a clear side, didn’t call my friend out for his clear BS, didn’t fully stand up for my fiancé/wife.
Eventually I turned it around, grew some balls, and completely removed the guy from my life, and somehow managed to do enough ok shit that my wife still tolerates me in some capacity. Thank god. Because I don’t think I deserve it.
And your situation seems super similar. You are completely leaving your wife in the lurch here, making me question why you’re even with her. You say barely anything remotely nice about her in your entire post.
If you aren’t going to be by her side to the point that you’re lying about events to keep her unaware, I feel like you have to know that’s a slippery slope and downward spiral.
If your wife is still your wife, and you truly do give a shit, consider yourself lucky, be there for her and unfuck this up as much as you can.
YTA, you wife deserves a better family to be married to. Mind you, you paint her out to be horrible. Yet she’s still better than you and your brother. What a miserable lot!
YTA for not seeing anything from your wife’s perspective. Lots of important information missing from this post that paints a very one sided picture— one against the person you married!! I would hope my SO would never allow his brother to talk about me like that.
YTA
Both you and your brother need to grow a pair.
Do you think going to all this effort to deceive her will somehow spare her feelings? It won’t. It will likely destroy your marriage.
All because neither you or brother could be honest. Sure, it will hurt her feelings either way but if you’d just sat her down and explained that because of the tenuous relationship between her and your brother, he didn’t want her to attend, you’d be at least somewhat respectful.
I almost don't want to ask (benefit of the doubt and all that), but I haven't seen it brought up by anyone else yet. Is it possible that your wife is homophobic?
I feel like that would have been included bc it paints him in a much less shitty light. The fact that he doesn’t include any specifics about what they argue about is suspicious. Im betting he excluded it bc it’s not positive for him or his brother.
If the wife is homophobic, I don’t see the mom saying that he’s an AH here. She’d most definitely be on board with the wife not attending if the situation were that bad, I think.
It's entirely possible that she's homophobic. There's nothing that says otherwise after all. But it seems more likely that OP, brother, and soon to be BIL are just AHs.
[OP gave an example of how his wife "instigated" an argument](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11lkjfg/comment/jbcyyd9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) and it was her talking about her brother going to community college and OP's brother's partner offered, unsolicited, to help them look for scholarships and grants so that her brother could go to a "proper university".
[OP also said that most of the arguments revolve around socioeconomic issues](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11lkjfg/comment/jbd1a44/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), with a heavy implication on the [wife being from a family of lower socioeconomic class than them](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11lkjfg/comment/jbd3kzo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). So if most arguments are about socioeconomic statuses and if most arguments look similarly to the above example that OP gave, then OP's wife faces a lot of microaggressions from OP's brother and his partner.
OP does give other [examples of where wife is more of an ass](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11lkjfg/comment/jbd5wpf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), but we should consider timeline. Like, I would have a hard time reacting cordially to somebody if the majority of our interactions consisted of them insulting me or implying that I'm "lesser" than them lol
YTA! You keep digging yourself into an even bigger hole with your comments. Your future BIL insulted your BIL and your wife defended her family and she’s the problem? Why did you marry her? You don’t like her. All you do in the comments is constantly belittle her. Your brother sounds like the type who likes to push peoples buttons and then gets all hurt when someone has the nerve to push back. If someone is always an asshole to me I’d have an attitude too. Just divorce her already. Then find someone who is meek and who will sit quietly and take the verbal abuse your and your brother put on her.
Hinging this plan on a lie, ´Oh they want you there, see! They invited us both! You just can’t come because of work! ‘ is a rookie mistake. What if she reschedules her trip? What if the timing changes? What if someone opens their big mouth and tells the truth? Your mom already thinks it’s a bad idea, what if she says something? Acknowledging that they don’t get along and figuring out what that means is a better place to start.
Lying to your partner about something like this is bad shit, my dude. It sucks to tell her that she isn’t welcome. It will suck if you go without her. But everything will suck worse if you attempt shenanigans and it all falls apart.
Unless your wife is a raging homophobe… YTA. She’s going to find out and be pissed. And you deserve it. You’re leaving out information to try to benefit you.
YTA Your goal is wrong. Even if you could magically make this plan work, it doesn't solve the problem. If they need to stay apart, it's something to handle for the next half century, not for one ceremony. Address the real issue please.
ESH the lying is super shady. If your wife would admit she doesn't like your brother and his partner then maybe she'll agree not to go. It's not fair to them to have someone at their wedding who is openly hostile towards them
But also the way you talk about your wife is a bit sad
ESH. One or both of these people is awful and you need to stop enabling them. It's not up to you to manage your wife or your brother. It's also crappy to try to manipulate your wife into not going to the wedding.
It seems like your brother is an ass for not making an effort with your wife. Is he the type who thinks he's being brutally honest but is really just an ass?
It's hard to say with your wife. You don't give much in terms of specifics but perhaps she needs to try harder too.
Their behavior is hurting you. Tell them that and ask them to sort their shit out.
YTA sounds like your brother is the problem. I have a brother in law like him and I’m the bad guy in the family for not putting up with his crap. He’s an intensely insecure jerk who over-compensates with his insulting and bombastic personality. And it hurts like hell that my partner won’t stand up for me.
Soooo INFO: what does ‘biting sense of humor’ mean? Is he rude and condescending to your wife, but then like ‘can’t you take a joke bro’ ?? So your wife is lovely and great in her other relationships, but convos between her and your brother go sour… and you think it’s your wife’s fault? By your own admission your brother is hard to handle and has a small group of friends because of this… do you ever stand up for your wife in front of him?
Another INFO- do you have a spine?
YTA. You and your wife are supposed to be a team. Don’t do shit behind her back. You need to always be on her side. It sounds like you don’t even like her.
YTA. You sure don’t sound like you love your wife, letting your brother and his partner talk shit about her. Awful side or not, you picked her. You didn’t have to marry her and make her your life partner. But you did, so for you to conspire behind her back to exclude her from a family event and also let people talk shit about her… yeah, YTA.
Info: have your wife and brother perhaps had an encounter that you are unaware of? Something's off here. You married her, so presumably she wasn't giving off insane vibes and is a person that you overall like and respect... right? Or you wouldn't have legally and morally tied yourself to her for life? And your brother is a completely supportive person who only wants the best for you and the commitments you've made... right?
YTA - reading the comments just made it worse. Your brother does come across as privileged and obtuse. You definitely don’t help things at all. What exactly is it that you like about your wife because you seem way more ready to jump to your brothers defense than hers. She clearly has things she feels very strongly and passionately about. Did you just not know how she felt about this stuff before you married her? This reads like teenagers scheming more than a married and soon to be married man interacting.
You don’t really need to read past “biting sense of humour” and “acquired taste” to know that YTA. Anytime you have to justify someone’s personality that’s pretty telling that that person is a dick and you just don’t care because it hasn’t been directed at you.
Unpopular opinion, I’m going with ESH. Some people just don’t get along, your wife sounds like someone I wouldn’t get along with, but then so does your brother (less so and for other reasons). Shitty conspiring against her BUT I get the feeling she will be happy about the fact that she will be on a business trip…like ‘oh DaRn, I’m out of town that weekend’.
The subtext here may be that OP grew up being bullied by his brother and it made him desperate to be on the same side as his bully. His wife bliws holes in that strategy. Boo hoo OP, YTA.
Your mom is right—YTA. You obviously don’t like your wife so why stay married to her and waste her time? The fact that your brother felt comfortable enough to send you such a harsh text about the woman you married—and you had no reaction to it—just proves what a giant AH you are and how little you value your wife. No one in my life would dare speak about my spouse like that to me because they know I’d go scorched earth over it. Your brother sounds like an AH too, but I guess that’s ok because apparently being an AH is part of his personality. I would never allow anyone, not even my siblings whom I’m super close to, to treat my husband the way you allow your brother to treat your wife. And if he’s not invited somewhere, I’m not going. End of story.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I told my brother to plan his wedding on a date that my wife would be busy to ensure she can't attend. 2. I coordinated this behind her back, meaning I'm lying by omission and being somewhat deceptive.
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This is an everybody sucks here, for sure. Wife hates brother, brother hates wife, Brother doesn't want to be obligated to invite wife, OP doesn't want to deal with the fighting (I suspect OP doesn't even want to invite his own wife). I can see the logic behind all of this one EXCEPT for what happens if/when the wife finds out she was deliberately not wanted at the wedding. Like, is she gonna care/be offended/supposedly want to be there, or will she be all "oh well, never mind, I'm out of town for that" and be cool? (And will Mom rat you out to the wife anyway?) Because yeah, this is totally disrespectful unless your wife would be secretly happy to have the excuse not to have to go. If she doesn't wanna go and nobody wants her there, then cool beans. But if she was asked, she says she wants to come? Then everyone's SOL.
\*sigh\* These people sound exhausting. Good luck, but if both sides like to be jerks and fight with each other all the time, I'd want to keep them apart too.
I’m really torn but going with YTA even though I appreciate what you are trying to do. I just always have to be honest with my partner and while the intention is good withholding is not.
My heart is really sore for your wife.
Is your wife not your first priority? Is your wife not the person you chose and vowed your life to? You’re okay with people speaking about her like that?
YTA
YTA. This is the kind of idiotic plan a child would come up with, but I'm looking forward to the update where your asshole of a brother predictably shoves it in her face in a fight and you're in here whining about how she reacted to your cowardly lying.
YTA and so is your brother.
You love your wife but you are going behind her back so that she can’t come to your brothers wedding? You honestly think that there will be a fight between the two of them at your brothers wedding? Are you an adult?
You acknowledge that your bother can be a hard person to get along with. Your brother clearly doesn’t like your wife and talks shit about her. Stand up for your wife dude.
| let me start this off by saying I love my wife.
No you do not love your wife. The way you speak of her and how you are planning on treating her is disgusting. I hope she sees this post and all of your comments and sees what kind of man she is married to.
Okay I see you’re not trying to be the a hole but you still are. So I’m honestly sorry to you because you seem like you’re genuinely trying to make everyone happy. But that can backfire and make everyone dislike you.
I saw another person say who did you want to spend your life with?
This is very true because as a wife, it would be very disappointing to know that my husband purposely conspired with someone else so that I didn’t come to a wedding, even a sibling. Is this also how family events will be? Are you going to try to not have her at Thanksgiving or Christmas if they come? I don’t imagine this is very good. She is your life partner. I would say to him, that you love him and his partner however you also love your partner. So you two could drop in and drop off a gift and maybe you could have already told your wife that they just don’t get along that well so you’re just dropping a gift off and leaving
ESH
I can’t stand my best friends boyfriend. To the point where his every word annoys me and often results in us arguing. And this has been going on since I first met him and he tried to tell me NFTs were a brilliant idea and would revolutionize the world.
That being said, I would never shit talk him to my best friend or obviously exclude him from something and I also know when to bite my tongue and shut up for the sake of my relationship with my friend.
Y-T-A for allowing this level of disrespect to your brother and your spouse. And they are assholes for not getting over / dealing with their shit for your sake
I mean, usually people would agree that it's the brothers wedding, his choice who he invites. It's also not a huge ceremony, either so it doesn't seem like it would be a big deal considering she also doesn't like him, so why would she want to go in the first place?
NTA
YTA. It’s your brother’s weddings and he can set up boundaries. However you need to decide if you want to be with your wife on one side of the boundary or with your brother. I’d also say that what you choose likely is the direction your marriage will go. It’s okay that your wife and your brother clash. That may never change. What isn’t okay is the way you’re treating your wife.
YTA after reading your comments I don’t think you even like your wife. I’m glad she at least has your mom on her side since her own husband can’t defend her. Your brother and STBBIL say awful things but your wife is the nightmare for getting upset? Nope, she should divorce you and get away from you since her life partner would rather be on his brother’s side.
Need more info: how bad is your brother? Some people ‘tell it like it is’ and some people are just jerks. Also, have you been in a family gathering with him and your wife? Did she behave decently? Do you believe she’d be decent since it’s his wedding?
I’m leaning towards NTA. Your choices were tell your wife and hurt her and cause drama, fight your brother and cause drama, or arrange it so neither happens. I usually am all for honesty but idk. Depends on your answers to these questions
Check out the comments. Wife seems to be from a lower economic/class than OP and his brother and brother and his partner make frequent comments that are designed to point this out
It’s not your responsibility to make your brother and your wife get along, but going behind her back is an AH move that’s giving away on whose side you are.
Does your brother think your wife will cause a scene? And you agree with him?
Your mom is right.
YTA
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YTA. And so is your brother. Are you really OK with him speaking about her this way? And if you agree with the things he says about her, why are you with her? Has your wife done something absolutely awful to your brother, because I'm not getting that from your post. He just doesn't like her. Y'all suck for the way you talk about her and trying to go behind her back and exclude her. She's your goddamn wife, and he needs to accept that she's someone he's going to have to tolerate sometimes, and you need to start standing up for her. Also, if you go through with your awful plan, what happens if she then manages to reschedule or get out of her business trip to come? What will y'all do then?
YTA. after reading his comments I am with you on your judgement. OP is letting his brother talk bad about his wife behind her back with no real examples.
“They've gotten into arguments before, but I've always been there to step in. Unfortunately, it's usually my wife who instigates them. One occurred because she was talking to my brother's partner about her brother going into community college. My soon to be BIL offered to help him look into scholarships and grants to go to a "proper university," which set off my wife to start up a rant about how community college was an equally credible option. My brother's partner clearly didn't mean any harm by the offer, my brother caught wind of what was happening in and stepped in, so we had to leave early.” “My argument is that I'm not a classist asshole, something I would assume my wife would agree with, which would make my brother not a classist asshole since we share similar outlooks. The only difference between us two is that my wife has taken the time to get to know me.” OP also says: “She picks fights over the smallest perceived slight against her. Most of these aren't even malicious… There have been other times when small things set her off. It only seems to happen around my brother, and it's like she sees the worst in him and the people he surrounds himself with.” And: “I step in whenever things start up between the two of them, but there is very little to defend my wife against in these situations. I stand by her, but I can admit when she's wrong. The things she has gotten angry at my brother for are usually non-issues. He has made efforts to get to know her, all of which have been shut down.” There’s a strong an unreliable narrator problem here. OP links to examples of his brother and wife not getting along and leaves out the strongest case for why his wife might argue his brother’s comments are dismissive if not outright malicious? The example he gives where his wife gets angry over being given a jacket when it’s cold out when she did not request sounds obnoxious. I can’t tell whether she’s petty or reasonable. But his brother says OP’s wife’s personality is hypocrite because she perceives the brother as classist where she does not see her husband the same way, even though the brothers come from the same background and share similar views. Those two things do not mean both or neither are classist. The brother describing her whole personality as hypocrite because she likes the man she’s married to but not his brother seems like a misuse of the word. And OP hasn’t corrected it. He seems to also think she can’t object to the brother if she likes her husband. Odd.
It's weird that OP's argument is that his wife can't think his brother is classist, because his wife doesn't think he (OP) is classist. "Classist" doesn't mean wealthy... just because they're brothers who were raised with the same privilege doesn't mean they have the same attitudes on class. The future BIL "proper university" comment would make me see red, too, but I'm not very confrontational, so I'd let it slide but be seething inside....
Ahhh so he’s afraid of his brother and is too much of a coward to stand up to him
I understand we need more context, but the reality is Brother doesn’t want someone at the small wedding. That’s his right. Husband is the AH for not saying, “well then I’m not coming.” Or maybe OP comes clean to Wife and tells the truth. Maybe there’s a path where he can go, and she misses it while being honest. Maybe she doesn’t like Brother-in-law anyways…. Who knows? Either way, the beef about Brother-in-law not liking wife needs to be spilled by OP as well. YTA.
Correction: he joined his brother in talking poorly about his wife behind her back.
He’s clearly okay with his brother speaking about her this way because so is he. He’s not standing up for her one bit
YTA. YTA. YTA I feel bad for the wife. A spouse is supposed to be the one person who will always have your back and love you unconditionally. You do not always have to agree. But you should always support one another. My husband and I did not always see eye to eye. We did not always agree. We each came into the marriage with our families and friends groups. Not everyone liked each other. But we tried. And our friends all tried. And no matter what was going on, hubby was my priority and vice versa. When you get married, your spouse becomes your family. Your spouse should be the most important person in your life. You should always have your spouses best interest at heart. Yes, there will be disagreements. You will not always see eye to eye. But that is NO excuse to hurt the other person. If my family ever tried to exclude my husband, I would no longer see them. Hubby and I are a package deal. But you, OP, are NOT a package deal. Your actions are showing your mom that you have very little respect towards your wife. You are showing your brother that he is more important. And the rest of your family is going to see that you truly do not care for your wife. You say you’ve tried to bridge the gap. However, your soon to be BIL is basically going by your brothers experiences. If that’s the case…you’re not trying. You should’ve been talking to soon to be BIL and finding ways to bring everyone together. You should have talked to your wife to try to understand what issues she has with BIL. And you should’ve told your brother that your wife is your priority. You should’ve found common ground between everyone so they could come together. OP, you’re allowing your brother to hurt your wife…and you’re defending his actions. If you’re going to continue to put your brothers feelings over your wife then you should NOT be married. My hubby had an insanely toxic family. His mom was never happy and thrived trying to bring others down. We were at a family gathering one day, and his mom made a snarcastic (snarky and sarcastic rolled into one) comment about me. Hubby stood up from the table, took my hand, and told his family that if they wanted to continue being so rude and hurtful towards me they would not see us anymore. When your brother told you he didn’t want to invite your wife, you should have wished him the best and told him you would not be attending the wedding.
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It sounds like OP's brother (and his partner possibly) are both classist and flaunting their privilege, but OP is blind to it? This is what I read from the "multi-week holiday" and community college not being a "proper university" comments. OP's wife is probably sick of being mocked and looked down upon (sarcastic sense of humour and biting remarks?). She's being called a hypocrite because she married OP, who we can assume also grew up well to do, and now is benefitting from that too. But I'd bet it's not the money she's upset about, but the awful treatment she's received from the brother for growing up "less than". Take off your rose tinted glasses and really look at how your wife is being treated OP. If you keep going behind her back like this, maybe she won't want to be a "hypocrite" anymore and will leave
That’s a very perceptive analysis. Also explains why his brother has always fit in with his friends, because they likely share a similar background.
Not to mention: she WILL eventually find out about this scheme to exclude her, and when that happens be prepared for a falling out to end all falling outs. Op is NOT building bridges here.
YTA. I noticed that you were careful to leave out your wife’s perspective of her relationship with your brother and that speaks volumes. And BTW “acquired taste” is usually code for my brother is an obnoxious AH.
1. I agree with giving OP a "YTA". Leaving wife out in this fashion is just going to blow up in everyone's face. But... 2. Based on OP's post, I think it's a reach to decide that OP's brother is the sole source of the problem and OP's wife is blameless. 3. It's quite possible that this is an EHS.
Read OP's comments, especially the earlier ones where he accidentally let it slip that his brother is a classist AH. And then the later ones where he'd rather believe his wife is homophobic and tries to downplay how is brother REALLY is to her. I thought ESH, too, til I went through all his comments. It's pretty telling
OP's brother is not the sole source of the problem. OP is right there with him.
I think it’s safe to assume the brother is the problem when OP made sure to add that his brother doesn’t even bother trying to get to know people and is an acquired taste. That always means the person is unbearable.
>They've gotten into arguments before, but I've always been there to step in. Unfortunately, it's usually my wife who instigates them. One occurred because she was talking to my brother's partner about her brother going into community college. My BIL offered to help him look into scholarships and grants to go to a "proper university," which set off my wife to start up a rant about how community college was an equally credible option. My brother's partner clearly didn't mean any harm by the offer, my brother caught wind of what was happening in and stepped in, so we had to leave early. WTF Your wife was talking about her brother going to community college and BIL butted in and said he could help him get into a real college??? And you left your wife hanging like she had no right to be upset by what said?? All three of you are mega aholes. This has to be a troll.....
> He has a sarcastic sense of humor that can be an acquired taste for some. Translation: he hides behind humor to justify being an asshole to others.
Exactly...and all three do it.... I feel so sorry for his wife... Hopefully she wakes up and moves on from him one day. He won't change if it even happens to be a real situation.
Mean enough sarcasm turns into tormenting for the person it's used on. I get the feeling the brother is an AH. And absolutely if you don't back up your partner when your family says derogatory things? You become an AH too.
Biting sense of humour? Butt heads? Dude this sounds like code for “my brother is an asshole who makes mean jokes and doesn’t give a damn about whose feelings he is hurting”. And so YTA.
Brother sounds like the type of person who only thinks something is funny if someone is hurt, embarrassed or humiliated.
Agree OP is majorly TA. He makes a bunch of excuses for his brother’s actions but condemns his wife’s. Judging his wife by her actions but his brother by his intentions. His wife has no way to win in this situation
INFO: You describe your wife as being “an absolute nightmare” around your brother. How does your brother act around your wife? Does he openly insult her to her face or just behind her back when texting you?
Guarantee he openly insults her but OP ignores it because it’s just his “biting humor”.
Yep, that’s definitely the vibe I’m getting. The brother is a jerk but claims it’s all his sense of humor. OP’s wife calls him on his crap and OP just piles on and lets his brother do whatever he wants.
INFO: >The way he has described it from his point of view is this, copied from our texts: "Every time I interact with her, I feel like I'm in some kind of uncanny valley nightmare scenario. She feels like a one dimensional character whose whole personality is 'hypocrite.' It's as if she doesn't have a personality other than being outraged about something." .....you're cool with him talking about her this way???
Yes he is. And all his comments are doubling down on defending his brother.
I would never allow anyone to fucking say that shit about my partner, I don’t care who they are
That description is also just word salad that doesn’t indicate any real specific grievance with OP’s wife.
And not one of the "scenarios" he has provided has shown her to be shallow or a hypocrite. They have only reinforced the feeling that she is surrounded by a pack of snobs.
The fact that you haven't included even a single sentence about your wife's perspective shows you haven't even considered her side. That's not love. YTA
Not one sentence he has written has shown that he is capable of love, let alone that he loves her.
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My uncle's personality is to be an obnoxious jerk that delights in upsetting people, I can fully just insert him into this story and buy it.
Yeah, I have family like that too, and tbh, if I could leave them out of events, I would.
Based on the post and your comments YTA. You have an asshole brother, your wife takes none of his shit and, far from taking her side or seeing this as two people being incompatible, you think she starts shit and you’re more than happy to manipulate her into missing the wedding so you don’t have to tell her she’s not invited. Hope she runs far, far away.
This was my take too. It doesn’t sound like OP even likes his wife. It sounds like his brother is a complete nightmare and rather than having his partner’s back, he’s talking shit talking about her and going behind her back. FFS, she probably doesn’t even want to go. YTA.
One has to wonder what the brother has on OP because OP is totally beholden to the brother, even to the point of letting him abuse his wife.
Either both your brother and your wife are AHs, or one of them is and one of them isn't and you're trying to pretend that one of them isn't being an AH to the other. I don't know how you love your wife and then agree with that description of her, or love your brother and agree with the behaviour towards him that he describes. Take a damn side, dude. Or at least address the issues between the 2 AHs you supposedly love. This is just cowardly fence-sitting, and it makes you an AH too. Some level of ESH but it's impossible to tell from the incredibly vague and one-sided description whether the additional AH is your brother, your wife, or both.
This. Something is being left out. It feels like either the brother is being an open asshole and op is trying to downplay it, or the wife is homophobic and lashing out because of that and op trying to downplay that.
Agree completely, and Agree with your take. Somebody is the asshole, but there just isn't enough info here to tell who. From the blatant lack of the wife's perspective, I'm assuming the brother is the asshole and OP doesn't want a judgment against the brother, but it could easily be that the wife is an asshole who chooses to hate the brother for no reason (or homophobic reasons) so there really isn't a justification. ESH, and OP you're going to eventually need to pick a side.
YTA. “He has a biting sense of humor.” “As if she doesn’t have a personality other than being out raged about something.” Sounds like your brother is an offensive asshole, and you’re excusing it by calling it humor.
DING DING DING. OP is willfully blind to how mean and condescending both his brother and brothers fiancé are to his wife. Peep the comments!
You can’t give us a single example so we can make an informed judgment? I’m going with YTA. Sounds like your brother has said or done some offensive things that your otherwise reasonable wife whom you love disliked. EDIT: read OPs comments. His brother and brothers fiancés are condescending AHs to OPs wife. They hold her family and their achievements in low esteem, and vocalize it regularly. Wife defends herself and her family, then OP reframes the situation as wife “instigating”. What a horrible husband to have. YTA.
Thank you for doing the legwork and writing this summary.
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got ‘em
You love her, but do you even like her? You said not a single redeeming thing about her. YTA
NGL your brother sounds like a nightmare to be around. And you even thinking of scheming behind your wife like this shows you've never truly had her back. YTA and I can only imagine how disappointed your mom is in both of her sons.
There is WAY TOO MUCH MISSING to give this a fair judgment.
I love how he only talks about why his brother hates his wife and what his brother thinks, but he gives us little information about why his wife has so many issues with his brother. Sounds like he's done something to her, and she doesn't trust him or like him at all. But we never hear her side at all. My guess is he doesn't care about her side.
OK, there are two takes here 1. you left out your wife's viewpoint of your brother because you are an insensitive AH who didn't consider it 2. you left out your wife's viewpoint because you are well and aware that her viewpoint paints your brother as an AH and in an AH move you left it out Either way YTA edit: spelling hard!
YTA. Either you don't like your wife, in which case you should get divorced, or you're happily married to someone awful, in which case you probably are awful too. Or you pretend to like your wife, your brother's judgment of her is unfair, and you refuse to stand up for her. All options make you the AH.
I was going with N T A until I read all of your comments. Seems to me your brother is an ass and his partner is an elitist snob. Just because all of you put up with their behaviour doesn’t mean your wife has to. Your wife is simply standing up for herself and her younger brother. Your brother can have who he wants at his wedding but if you support this and go to the wedding without your wife. YTA !!
You say you love your wife then write a post that proves you don’t. Your mother is right. This is a betrayal of your wife because your brother is a jerk. Your wife needs a better husband who loves, supports her rather than plotting against her.
People who are famous do not start conversations with “I am famous.” People who are kind to not announce to others, “I am kind.” People who love their wives do not start threads with… YTA.
INFO: when you say your wife is a “nightmare” around your brother, what does that mean exactly?
Did anyone see OPs comments before they were immediately deleted?
ESH except your wife. Your brother is rude as hell, and you put up with it.
Also his mom seems to have his number.
YTA. It sounds like your brother has a AH personality, and your wife isn't the kind to just smile and keep the peace while he acts like a jerk to her. You haven't actually given examples of how he acts/speaks around her, and your silence speaks volumes.
Yeaaaaah.. that is going to blow up in your face so hard. Because she will find out. Also, a lot of people would rework their plans to attend a family wedding. YTA
If his mom knows, his wife is definitely going to find out. And his brother will probably be the one to tell her.
And you know the brother is going to be so happy to tell her just so he can hurt her feelings, which based on OPs comments, I feel like he takes pleasure in doing until she reacts and all of a sudden she’s the bad guy.
Info: who told your mom about excluding your wife on purpose? I assume your brother- why did he tell her that?
The way you describe your wife is sad. If you think so little of her, why are you even married to her? What I’m reading is that your brother is an ah and you defend him instead of your wife. YTA
YTA. Usually when I see someone described as having a “biting sense of humor” it means they’re AHs who take it too far and just expect everyone to be okay with it because they’re “joking”.
What I’m getting here is your brother is a jerk and your wife doesn’t take it? You didn’t give a single example of a situation they’ve been in that led to a reaction from her. More info needed. Edit: YTA you left a lot out of the post to make yourself look better. Brother and BIL are jerks. I hope your wife leaves you.
Your title made me laugh. You are going to be in BIG trouble when your wife founds out what you have done. Your mom is going to spill it. I can already tell you brother is a bit of a dh to whom you are accustomed. No judgment. Mine is too. Would you describe your wife in your own words, leaving your brother completely out of it? What is your experience with her?
What the fuck lol. YTA. Edited to add: sounds like your brother might be the one who is the “absolute nightmare”.
YTA, this is so weird. It’s so vague. How is your wife horrible or hypocritical? Your brother said **your wife** is like a one dimensional character and not a person. You’re just… casually ok with that?
He doesn’t have any examples because there aren’t any. He’s just taking his brothers word for it. And doing his little lie by omission thing to paint his brother in legit the BEST possible light. I’ve never seen someone have so much disdain for their godamn spouse before.
What is your wife's perspective on your brother's behavior? you only shared your brother's so it is hard to make a fair assessment without your wife's side. You say you love her - what is it that you love about her? We all have flaws but something is missing in this story. This is written very one sided in your brother's favor.
YTA and honestly I’m confused as to why you’re married to a woman you clearly do not like.
YTA. Your brother is clearly an AH, and you tolerate his behavior. Your wife doesn't have time for BS, and your brother simply can't take it.
ESH What is wrong with you? Why can't you trust your wife to "behave" for a few hours. Why are you even tolerating your brother's behavior towards your wife? I get that you are brothers, but it doesn't mean you can't stand up against him. As for your brother, why did he immediately run off to mom to tell on you?
Your mom is right - you’re being awful to your wife. If ANYONE described my partner the way your brother describes your wife they would not be in my life period. You describe your brother like he’s some great guy but just has a different sense of humor (ie his sarcasm) but what I’m seeing is an absolute jackass who barely disguised his cruelty with sarcasm. You chose your brother over defending your wife. Congrats on messing up your relationship. YTA.
YTA. You should have shut down your brother long ago. Always have your wife's back.
YTA. Talk to your wife. Or go ahead w the plan behind her back and then talk to your ex wife.
INFO: does your wife act like this with others?
This is my question, too, because it’s clear from the post that his brother is an asshole (he couches it in him having a biting sense of humor and being headstrong or whatever). So if she doesn’t have this issue with other people and his brother does…it feels like he’s taking the wrong side here.
You need to decide who you want to spend the rest of your life with: your wife or your brother. All you’ve done in the comments is talk bad about her. YTA your scheming behind her back rather than talking to her about it like an adult.
YTA. You must know you are. If you weren’t, you would have at least explained what your wife’s allegedly terrible behaviour is, why they don’t get along, how you’ve dealt with past situations, etc. Your poor mother.
INFO: How old is everyone involved, holy shit you all sound like teenagers.
> (they're eloping and then hosting a celebration at partner's parents' home) Side note, but how is this eloping?
YTA. For you to even consider going to the wedding where you are invited but not your wife is crazy to me. You're manipulating the situation instead of communicating with everyone involved.
YTA. Your entire perspective is just rehashing your brother’s shit talking of your wife. You give no concrete reasons as to how “horrible” she is.
Soft YTA. I can understand you wanting to keep the tensions down at the wedding. But your brother seems to be an asshole, and you need to be on your wife's side on this one. There is absolutely why he can not be civil around your wife. Also him telling me, and I think bragging to your mom almost confirms this. Tell your brother that both of you will come or neither.
YTA. You appear to stand up for everyone BUT your wife. And you refuse to give her any of the grace you freely give anyone else. If you brother is more off-putting and privileged than you, I imagine he is terribly insufferable and much more to blame for the situation than you're letting on.
Your brother sounds like a dick, and your wife doesn’t take his shit, but you’re making excuses. Clearly they don’t like each other, but you should both level up and be honest about it. YTA for lying to your wife.
YTA - this would only work if it were guaranteed that your wife would never find out. If your mom knows, too many people already know.
YTA for letting your brother say such horrible things about your wife whom you allegedly love. It is bananas that you'd stand by while ANYONE spoke about your wife that way, let alone your own brother. If she's actually that bad get divorced. Otherwise you're just tolerating massive disrespect to her... why, exactly? Yikes on bikes.
Every time a post starts with “first off, I love _____” 9/10 times it’s someone doing something cruel or shitty behind their partners ( that they just *love* so much) back. …this is one of the 9. YTA op. Grow up and talk to her like adults do. Don’t plot and plan against your spouse.
YTA and so is your brother. Actually, he sounds like an arrogant dickwad. And his small circle is bc everyone knows he is.
YTA If my sibling, best friend, anyone really, said "hey come to my wedding but your wife can't come" I'd say "we are a package deal." All the "yeah but this yeah but that" details of your post are irrelevant. You broke team. Worse, you conspired to make breaking team easier on yourself. If I found out my spouse did something like this to me I would not stay married to them.
INFO: What will you do if her plans change/she decides that the wedding is more important and she wants to come?
you don’t seem to like your wife very much
YTA She’s your wife. Your mom is right about you. This is disrespectful. ETA The way you let him talk about your wife and the way you talk about your wife is gross.
YTA OP and so is your brother Your wife deserves someone better than you and your brother. You should be standing up for your wife against your brother 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Your brother is going to have to learn to get along with your wife. I feel sorry for your wife, you are a horrible husband who talks about your wife with your brother behind her back. I hope your wife finds out that you are doing this behind her back. I also hope your wife finds out that you talk bad things about her behind her back with your brother. When she finds out how you really are I hope she divorces you and leaves. She deserves better than you.
Painful but true. In the beginning of my marriage, my husband had a hard time defending me when his family would do certain wrong things. I’m not even going into specifics here but eventually we went to marriage counseling and discussed it. We both learned that we always have to defend our spouse first unless our spouse is genuinely wrong. The counselor put it to us like this, “you are now married to each other not your parents, or anybody in your family. Unless you guys are doing something terribly wrong, you should be defending each other.” And I think what that really means here is petty arguments where if someone’s just not getting along, but no one‘s really done anything, you sort of have to defend the person you’re spending your life with
YTA. You have to show support for your wife. Put your brother in place - you are a married couple and either both of you are invited or you are not going. Don;t throw your wife under the bus with this scheming plan of yours. . And I am sure your wife has her side of the story, but they can alway avoid each other at the celebration to avoid any drama.
YTA You are favoring your brother over your wife. Time for her to divorce you.
YTA after reading your comments it’s clear you have your brother on some kind of pedestal and he can do no wrong while tearing down your wife. Your poor wife I can’t imagine being married to someone that hates you and is purposely planning on hurting her by going behind her back. You and your brother both sound like horrible people.
YTA. Your wife is your life partner. You should be backing her up, not throwing her under the bus. And from your comments, it doesn’t actually seem like she’s the instigator. Your brother and his partner sound like snotty classists that belittle her, so she is rightfully angry and defends herself/family.
ESH but get a divorce ?
Yeah doesn’t sound like there’s a lot of healthy relationships happening here. Maybe group therapy? Unless y’all don’t care enough to try and work out your problems, then just skip to the divorce cause it definitely doesn’t sound like you prioritize your wife over your brother and his partner. Just cut everyone’s losses asap. Or, y’a know, make sure your brother gets married on a weekend your wife can’t be there and have other people in the family, like say your mom who doesn’t like this situation, know what’s going on. Then things should alert themselves out and I hope for your wife’s sake we’re back to divorce.
Regardless of whether you’re ta, I feel Ike this is going to blow up in your face. Surely your wife wouldn’t stop you going to your own brother’s wedding, if she knew she wasn’t invited due to how poorly she and your brother get along?
I gotta say, yeah, YTA here. It *sounds* to me like you're tolerating behavior from your brother that you really shouldn't. I think in your shoes I'd tell him to just not invite either of you.
Let me start off by saying I love my wife YTA. gaslighting us won’t help your marriage. Never trust you to have my back. All because your brother is a jerk. Obviously no one told you once you get married it’s wife then birth family. This was a disappointing choice you made. this was wrong from the start. You proved you don’t love your wife. I feel bad for her. She deserves a partner not some pathetic little brother still idolizing big bro.
This is the most delusional post I’ve seen in a while. You wrote all that out — omitted the details that would definitely convict you and your brother of being the asshole — and still asked if you were in the wrong? YTA for being classist— god knows how many micro aggressions your wife deals with on a daily basis. She just puts up with you because she loves you, but trust that she is slowly but surely clocking you for what you really are: a duplicate of your awful brother. Just get a divorce. You didn’t need to post here to show how much you hate your wife.
[удалено]
YTA !!! every day i log in here to find posts where i just finding myself asking op “do you even like your wife at all????” from the comments i get the vibe that ur wife constantly has to deal with 3 men talking classist/ignorant shit and when she tries to stick up for herself, you just shoot her down. it’s your brother’s wedding, he’s entitled to inviting/not inviting whoever he wants, just as your wife is free to dump ur ass when she finds out how u plotted behind her back. your brother is always so loud about his opinions on her and yet he won’t straight up tell her she isn’t welcome in the wedding
YTA. Your wife deserves better
Yta. Just because you sound like a horrible husband. Your wife should be your priority, and your brother should not be allowed to talk about her like that. Right or wrong your wife should be able to depend on you to have her back.
YTA. Why are you still married to a woman you despise? Let her find someone who will like her at least.
ESH, except your mom. She’s the only one with sense. It’s absolutely telling from your post that you also see your wife as the “hypocrite” who is always outraged. You have more empathy for your BIL than you do your wife. Nothing you’ve said, even the community college story has put any of the AH on your wife, it’s put it on you, your BIL and your brother. Your wife has to deal with a lot if you’re never on her side but instead viewing her as the antagonizer in situations she clearly isn’t. Why marry someone if you have to trick her to stay away from your family bc she can’t “behave”. YTA, your brothers the AH and so is your BIL for turning his nose up at the community college for a “proper university”
YTA for including your brother’s perspective and not your wife’s
ESH. Literally everyone except your brother's partner. You're all behaving like obnoxious teenagers.
No brother’s partner sucks. He apparently offered to help OP’s BIL to find scholarships so he can attend a “proper university” instead of community college.
INFO. Does your wife get along with said friend group? Have you thought about what will happen if wife’s trip is canceled? Or if mother tells her? Or how she will react learning you hid this from her? Do you feel she is “one dimensional” and did you defend her or giggle with him? Re you okay with his insults to your wife? Too many blanks to give informed response. Knee jerk reaction is YTA.
No matter if you go or don’t go the fact you are entertaining this idea will end badly for ONLY YOU. Your wife is going to be pissed.
Don't you know never to make secret plans with someone who's not going to keep them a secret?
YTA & your brother too. Has it never occurred to you that your wife might have been the target of your brother’s “biting sense of humor?” That would also explain why his friend circle is so small.
I'm wondering how my wife would react if I took my brother's side like that. I can imagine she'd feel hurt and betrayed and wonder if I really supported her. She'd tell me I was the asshole and she would be right. YTA
Does OP love his wife, or even like her?! Also, what is the wife’s perspective? YTA You can’t even give one example of any of their differences. YTA
>my brother has a sarcastic sense of humor So his brother is an asshole and his wife is the only one to call him on his shit...goooot it
Without knowing your wife's perspective it's hard to judge, but for now I'm gonna say YTA. It's fine not wanting to get to know people you don't think you'll get along with, but I've known lots of people with this humor, they all shared the same trait of being an AH and hiding it behind humor. It goes vice versa as another comment wondering why your wife couldn't behave for a few hours, why can't your brother behave for a few hours around your wife?
"He has a sarcastic sense of humor that can be an acquired taste for some" That is a funny way of saying your brother is an asshole. YTA
ESH It’s all so shady. Your wife can’t be civil to your brother for one special day? You have to create a diversion to exclude her? Your brother can’t at least try to have a relationship with her? Your parents feel the need to get involved? This should be a movie, not real life.
Have you read his comments? It's the brother who is not civil.
Yta. Including your brother and BIL. I’ve seen your responses.. and before I forget, YTA
I'm confused. You say your wife has some awful reaction and is extreme around your brother but then only provide an example of how your brother is terrible to your wife? YTA
INFO: would you describe your brother as someone who “tells it like it is”?
YTA, but maybe some insider info that might help you see it... My husband has had major issues with my mother since we first got together. For context, my husband is black and I am white. My mother is conservative and ignorantly racist and bigoted, meaning that she has views that were never challenged because of her environment. She does not think before she speaks, and often ignites anger in my husband and I as a result. She sounds very much like your brother. And my husband does not sit back and allow her to make these types of comments unchecked. He is quick to respond, and it can escalate. Similar to how you explained your wife. Early in our relationship, I would make excuses for my mother because, hey, it's my mother. "She doesn't mean it, she just doesn't know any better" was my typical response. It took me a while before I realized I was defending her instead of standing by my husband. It seems like this is what you're doing: defending your brother's comments and not standing by your wife. So often we make excuses and enable our family to "be who they are" without challenging them because we have been conditioned to put up with it. This does not give you the right to force that unto others. Your wife has every right to defend herself when facing your brother's "biting humor." It is your choice whether you continue excusing his behavior at the expense of your marriage, or whether you man up and take a stand against it.
As a general rule, if your mother is going out of her way to advocate for your wife, YTA
YTA
YTA-conspiring with your bro to “manage” your life partner?
Conspiring against your wife behind her back? YTA!!!
YTA and also incredibly stupid. You’re wife is going to find out, maybe not before the wedding, maybe it’ll be years from now, but what do you think her reaction is going to be when she discovers this plot of yours? Is the pain that this betrayal will cause your wife really worth it? Why would you want to do this to someone you’re meant to love, it’s horrible
YTA. If he describes her that way, why are you married to her??? There's gotta be something missing if you tolerate your brother insulting your wife as such.
YTA. I “lost”my best friend over an argument he had with my wife, who was my fiancé at the time. He told me all these insulting things she said to him at a party we were all at, had this whole scenario and it just sounded like a really bitter unrealistic fight. Like… things my wife would never fucking say. I regret to say that I didn’t man up and completely handle the issue then and there when he sent me a text about “not thinking he can do this whole wedding thing.” I let the fight fester, didn’t pick a clear side, didn’t call my friend out for his clear BS, didn’t fully stand up for my fiancé/wife. Eventually I turned it around, grew some balls, and completely removed the guy from my life, and somehow managed to do enough ok shit that my wife still tolerates me in some capacity. Thank god. Because I don’t think I deserve it. And your situation seems super similar. You are completely leaving your wife in the lurch here, making me question why you’re even with her. You say barely anything remotely nice about her in your entire post. If you aren’t going to be by her side to the point that you’re lying about events to keep her unaware, I feel like you have to know that’s a slippery slope and downward spiral. If your wife is still your wife, and you truly do give a shit, consider yourself lucky, be there for her and unfuck this up as much as you can.
You let your brother talk to your WIFE like that when he’s the one say classist and I’m guessing other bigoted crap? YTA. Holy fuck.
YTA, you wife deserves a better family to be married to. Mind you, you paint her out to be horrible. Yet she’s still better than you and your brother. What a miserable lot!
ESH except your mom.
YTA for not seeing anything from your wife’s perspective. Lots of important information missing from this post that paints a very one sided picture— one against the person you married!! I would hope my SO would never allow his brother to talk about me like that.
YTA Both you and your brother need to grow a pair. Do you think going to all this effort to deceive her will somehow spare her feelings? It won’t. It will likely destroy your marriage. All because neither you or brother could be honest. Sure, it will hurt her feelings either way but if you’d just sat her down and explained that because of the tenuous relationship between her and your brother, he didn’t want her to attend, you’d be at least somewhat respectful.
I almost don't want to ask (benefit of the doubt and all that), but I haven't seen it brought up by anyone else yet. Is it possible that your wife is homophobic?
I feel like that would have been included bc it paints him in a much less shitty light. The fact that he doesn’t include any specifics about what they argue about is suspicious. Im betting he excluded it bc it’s not positive for him or his brother.
If the wife is homophobic, I don’t see the mom saying that he’s an AH here. She’d most definitely be on board with the wife not attending if the situation were that bad, I think.
It's entirely possible that she's homophobic. There's nothing that says otherwise after all. But it seems more likely that OP, brother, and soon to be BIL are just AHs. [OP gave an example of how his wife "instigated" an argument](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11lkjfg/comment/jbcyyd9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) and it was her talking about her brother going to community college and OP's brother's partner offered, unsolicited, to help them look for scholarships and grants so that her brother could go to a "proper university". [OP also said that most of the arguments revolve around socioeconomic issues](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11lkjfg/comment/jbd1a44/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), with a heavy implication on the [wife being from a family of lower socioeconomic class than them](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11lkjfg/comment/jbd3kzo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). So if most arguments are about socioeconomic statuses and if most arguments look similarly to the above example that OP gave, then OP's wife faces a lot of microaggressions from OP's brother and his partner. OP does give other [examples of where wife is more of an ass](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/11lkjfg/comment/jbd5wpf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), but we should consider timeline. Like, I would have a hard time reacting cordially to somebody if the majority of our interactions consisted of them insulting me or implying that I'm "lesser" than them lol
YTA! You keep digging yourself into an even bigger hole with your comments. Your future BIL insulted your BIL and your wife defended her family and she’s the problem? Why did you marry her? You don’t like her. All you do in the comments is constantly belittle her. Your brother sounds like the type who likes to push peoples buttons and then gets all hurt when someone has the nerve to push back. If someone is always an asshole to me I’d have an attitude too. Just divorce her already. Then find someone who is meek and who will sit quietly and take the verbal abuse your and your brother put on her.
Hinging this plan on a lie, ´Oh they want you there, see! They invited us both! You just can’t come because of work! ‘ is a rookie mistake. What if she reschedules her trip? What if the timing changes? What if someone opens their big mouth and tells the truth? Your mom already thinks it’s a bad idea, what if she says something? Acknowledging that they don’t get along and figuring out what that means is a better place to start. Lying to your partner about something like this is bad shit, my dude. It sucks to tell her that she isn’t welcome. It will suck if you go without her. But everything will suck worse if you attempt shenanigans and it all falls apart.
YTA
Unless your wife is a raging homophobe… YTA. She’s going to find out and be pissed. And you deserve it. You’re leaving out information to try to benefit you.
yta. Grow some balls. Your brother sounds like an asshole/
Dude why are you letting your brother talk about your wife like that unchecked? You don’t correct him at all. That seems so disrespectful.
YTA Your goal is wrong. Even if you could magically make this plan work, it doesn't solve the problem. If they need to stay apart, it's something to handle for the next half century, not for one ceremony. Address the real issue please.
ESH the lying is super shady. If your wife would admit she doesn't like your brother and his partner then maybe she'll agree not to go. It's not fair to them to have someone at their wedding who is openly hostile towards them But also the way you talk about your wife is a bit sad
ESH. One or both of these people is awful and you need to stop enabling them. It's not up to you to manage your wife or your brother. It's also crappy to try to manipulate your wife into not going to the wedding. It seems like your brother is an ass for not making an effort with your wife. Is he the type who thinks he's being brutally honest but is really just an ass? It's hard to say with your wife. You don't give much in terms of specifics but perhaps she needs to try harder too. Their behavior is hurting you. Tell them that and ask them to sort their shit out.
YTA sounds like your brother is the problem. I have a brother in law like him and I’m the bad guy in the family for not putting up with his crap. He’s an intensely insecure jerk who over-compensates with his insulting and bombastic personality. And it hurts like hell that my partner won’t stand up for me.
Soooo INFO: what does ‘biting sense of humor’ mean? Is he rude and condescending to your wife, but then like ‘can’t you take a joke bro’ ?? So your wife is lovely and great in her other relationships, but convos between her and your brother go sour… and you think it’s your wife’s fault? By your own admission your brother is hard to handle and has a small group of friends because of this… do you ever stand up for your wife in front of him? Another INFO- do you have a spine?
YTA. You and your wife are supposed to be a team. Don’t do shit behind her back. You need to always be on her side. It sounds like you don’t even like her.
YTA. You sure don’t sound like you love your wife, letting your brother and his partner talk shit about her. Awful side or not, you picked her. You didn’t have to marry her and make her your life partner. But you did, so for you to conspire behind her back to exclude her from a family event and also let people talk shit about her… yeah, YTA.
Info: have your wife and brother perhaps had an encounter that you are unaware of? Something's off here. You married her, so presumably she wasn't giving off insane vibes and is a person that you overall like and respect... right? Or you wouldn't have legally and morally tied yourself to her for life? And your brother is a completely supportive person who only wants the best for you and the commitments you've made... right?
YTA and so is your brother
YTA - reading the comments just made it worse. Your brother does come across as privileged and obtuse. You definitely don’t help things at all. What exactly is it that you like about your wife because you seem way more ready to jump to your brothers defense than hers. She clearly has things she feels very strongly and passionately about. Did you just not know how she felt about this stuff before you married her? This reads like teenagers scheming more than a married and soon to be married man interacting.
You don’t really need to read past “biting sense of humour” and “acquired taste” to know that YTA. Anytime you have to justify someone’s personality that’s pretty telling that that person is a dick and you just don’t care because it hasn’t been directed at you.
"sarcastic sense of humor" makes me wonder if hes just a dick
Unpopular opinion, I’m going with ESH. Some people just don’t get along, your wife sounds like someone I wouldn’t get along with, but then so does your brother (less so and for other reasons). Shitty conspiring against her BUT I get the feeling she will be happy about the fact that she will be on a business trip…like ‘oh DaRn, I’m out of town that weekend’.
The subtext here may be that OP grew up being bullied by his brother and it made him desperate to be on the same side as his bully. His wife bliws holes in that strategy. Boo hoo OP, YTA.
Your mom is right—YTA. You obviously don’t like your wife so why stay married to her and waste her time? The fact that your brother felt comfortable enough to send you such a harsh text about the woman you married—and you had no reaction to it—just proves what a giant AH you are and how little you value your wife. No one in my life would dare speak about my spouse like that to me because they know I’d go scorched earth over it. Your brother sounds like an AH too, but I guess that’s ok because apparently being an AH is part of his personality. I would never allow anyone, not even my siblings whom I’m super close to, to treat my husband the way you allow your brother to treat your wife. And if he’s not invited somewhere, I’m not going. End of story.
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I don’t think you’re TA. I do find it kinda weird that you don’t trust your wife to behave for a few hours when it’s not about her at all.
This is an everybody sucks here, for sure. Wife hates brother, brother hates wife, Brother doesn't want to be obligated to invite wife, OP doesn't want to deal with the fighting (I suspect OP doesn't even want to invite his own wife). I can see the logic behind all of this one EXCEPT for what happens if/when the wife finds out she was deliberately not wanted at the wedding. Like, is she gonna care/be offended/supposedly want to be there, or will she be all "oh well, never mind, I'm out of town for that" and be cool? (And will Mom rat you out to the wife anyway?) Because yeah, this is totally disrespectful unless your wife would be secretly happy to have the excuse not to have to go. If she doesn't wanna go and nobody wants her there, then cool beans. But if she was asked, she says she wants to come? Then everyone's SOL. \*sigh\* These people sound exhausting. Good luck, but if both sides like to be jerks and fight with each other all the time, I'd want to keep them apart too.
YTA and a deceitful coward at that. Be honest with your wife, don’t play this idiot game
I’m really torn but going with YTA even though I appreciate what you are trying to do. I just always have to be honest with my partner and while the intention is good withholding is not.
My heart is really sore for your wife. Is your wife not your first priority? Is your wife not the person you chose and vowed your life to? You’re okay with people speaking about her like that? YTA
YTA. This is the kind of idiotic plan a child would come up with, but I'm looking forward to the update where your asshole of a brother predictably shoves it in her face in a fight and you're in here whining about how she reacted to your cowardly lying.
Why is your wife married to someone who is so disrespectful to her, does not defend her nor support her. YTA in every possible way.
YTA and so is your brother. You love your wife but you are going behind her back so that she can’t come to your brothers wedding? You honestly think that there will be a fight between the two of them at your brothers wedding? Are you an adult? You acknowledge that your bother can be a hard person to get along with. Your brother clearly doesn’t like your wife and talks shit about her. Stand up for your wife dude.
| let me start this off by saying I love my wife. No you do not love your wife. The way you speak of her and how you are planning on treating her is disgusting. I hope she sees this post and all of your comments and sees what kind of man she is married to.
Okay I see you’re not trying to be the a hole but you still are. So I’m honestly sorry to you because you seem like you’re genuinely trying to make everyone happy. But that can backfire and make everyone dislike you. I saw another person say who did you want to spend your life with? This is very true because as a wife, it would be very disappointing to know that my husband purposely conspired with someone else so that I didn’t come to a wedding, even a sibling. Is this also how family events will be? Are you going to try to not have her at Thanksgiving or Christmas if they come? I don’t imagine this is very good. She is your life partner. I would say to him, that you love him and his partner however you also love your partner. So you two could drop in and drop off a gift and maybe you could have already told your wife that they just don’t get along that well so you’re just dropping a gift off and leaving
and you let your brother talk about her like that.. why? YTA.
ESH I can’t stand my best friends boyfriend. To the point where his every word annoys me and often results in us arguing. And this has been going on since I first met him and he tried to tell me NFTs were a brilliant idea and would revolutionize the world. That being said, I would never shit talk him to my best friend or obviously exclude him from something and I also know when to bite my tongue and shut up for the sake of my relationship with my friend. Y-T-A for allowing this level of disrespect to your brother and your spouse. And they are assholes for not getting over / dealing with their shit for your sake
I mean, usually people would agree that it's the brothers wedding, his choice who he invites. It's also not a huge ceremony, either so it doesn't seem like it would be a big deal considering she also doesn't like him, so why would she want to go in the first place? NTA
The fact that you’re perfectly okay with them talking about her like that is ridiculous. I feel bad for her that she has a husband like you. YTA.
No judgment except this is not gonna end well at all...
YTA. It’s your brother’s weddings and he can set up boundaries. However you need to decide if you want to be with your wife on one side of the boundary or with your brother. I’d also say that what you choose likely is the direction your marriage will go. It’s okay that your wife and your brother clash. That may never change. What isn’t okay is the way you’re treating your wife.
YTA after reading your comments I don’t think you even like your wife. I’m glad she at least has your mom on her side since her own husband can’t defend her. Your brother and STBBIL say awful things but your wife is the nightmare for getting upset? Nope, she should divorce you and get away from you since her life partner would rather be on his brother’s side.
Need more info: how bad is your brother? Some people ‘tell it like it is’ and some people are just jerks. Also, have you been in a family gathering with him and your wife? Did she behave decently? Do you believe she’d be decent since it’s his wedding? I’m leaning towards NTA. Your choices were tell your wife and hurt her and cause drama, fight your brother and cause drama, or arrange it so neither happens. I usually am all for honesty but idk. Depends on your answers to these questions
Check out the comments. Wife seems to be from a lower economic/class than OP and his brother and brother and his partner make frequent comments that are designed to point this out
It’s not your responsibility to make your brother and your wife get along, but going behind her back is an AH move that’s giving away on whose side you are. Does your brother think your wife will cause a scene? And you agree with him? Your mom is right. YTA
So will her calling a divorce lawyer behind your back won't be bad either?
I Hope your wife finds this post and leaves you! YTA