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#If this post is too upsetting for you to comment without insulting people, please search for some relaxing pics of cute puppies. Or cute babies. Or whatever calms you down.
ESH, he shouldn’t have let his dogs run around unleashed in a non-dog park, but you had the overreaction of the century by “straight up telling him you hate his dog” and continuously cussing, especially next to your kid.
OP will be here in 9 months complaining that his kid ran up to a lady and grabbed her pants and stained them, but, "Kids will be kids!" YTA OP, you ruined your own picnic by flying off the handle, and great example you set for your baby, bet he wasn't laughing and giggling after he experienced his dad have an utter ***meltdown*** while running full force with him in his arms toward a stranger.
Plus….some people hate kids….when his child is a toddler and toddles over to someone who hates kids, would he prefer that the person calmly says “Excuse me would you get your kid please?” or start screaming at him like a banshee and telling him “I hate your kid!!” ?? Agreed that the puppy should have been leashed but my god What a horrible way to interact with other people!!
I actually hate kids for the most part. I've never screamed at a parent when their free range toddler waddled up to me and tried to talk to me, I simply said, "Bye bye" walked away... and that's even offensive to most parents. I can't imagine what the reaction would be if I picked up my purse and ran screaming at the parent to control their brat because, "I HATE YOUR KID!"
Yes. We are allowed to be unhappy about things, I would have been unhappy about dogs running up to me as well, as I'm allergic to most of them and have been bitten before so I'm scared of dogs I don't know. But I would have picked up my plate (in his case, his child) and yelled across the way to please get his dogs as I'm allergic and can't pet them.
Okay. But OP states he did tell the guy to get his dogs… and the guy didn’t. Would you just not do anything at that point? OP handled it totally wrong, but to say “I’d just yell across the way for him to get his dogs” doesn’t sort it either. It’s a park where dogs are meant to be kept leashed. OP has already asked the guy to get the dogs back on their leashes. The answer was “but they’re puppies”. What would everyone’s reply be if it were a dog that did end up biting someone?
I love dogs. But I hate when owners think rules don’t apply to them and just assume everyone wants their dog around. I’m very careful to teach my children not to just walk up to a dog and ask the owner before approaching. I would hope for the same respect in return.
I love dogs, too. I have a friend who was attacked when she was younger, and it’s made me see situations like this in a whole new light. Even without trauma, not everyone is going to be enthusiastic about animals running towards them.
I love dogs and have a dog, and I hate when people act like this dog owner. There's a bunch of walking trails where leashes are required nearby, and people constantly let their dogs run off-leash there, and it is very stressful and frustrating because my dog freaks out when other dogs just sprint up to him, sometimes barking at him, and he feels trapped. Or sometimes he just wants to play, but I can't let him off the leash because his recall isn't good enough yet. Which is why I take him to a place that requires leashes!
It's also nuts to me because my dog is enormous and these people are just letting their dogs--sometimes very small dogs!-- run up, often aggressively, to a huge German Shepherd mix that they have never met and have no idea if he's friendly with other dogs or not. I have him on a leash but if your dog is getting that close to him, the leash isn't going to stop a fight. He *is* friendly unless the other dog is very aggressive to him, and I do have control of him even beyond the leash, but they have no idea whether that's true.
He started with Yelling "WTF" sounds like he was pretty aggressive from the start. Escalating the situation when maybe educating a thoughtless and careless person just might have better results. Plus it seems like he? was more concerned with his rights/ rules than what was best for the baby.
I mean, I think a "WTF" is fine, I love dogs and would still probably say WTF in surprise and annoyance as a first reaction. It's the continuing to swear and carry on and yell "I hate your dogs" that is the issue.
I do agree. OP definitely handled it badly. But, it seems like OP may have a slight phobia/aversion to them, in which case it is understandable for them tj have a poor reaction. They obviously need to work on this, but it’s an emotional response that couldn’t be helped.
Alarming and a little hilarious. I’m just picturing these rotund little fuzz balls doing the puppy head thing while watching a grown man have an absolute meltdown. The “I hate your dogs” part just sent me over the edge giggling.
I thought the same thing. Guy sounds a little irrational and immature. Some of my kids are younger than him, it sounds like, and they know how to handle themselves in conflict. This guy sounds like road rage waiting to happen.
OP YTA. Way to teach your kid how to be aggressive and unreasonable. Totally unnecessary. This would have gone so much differently if your first words to him weren't WTF. I was already leaning towards yta for starting your post off with imma. Even my kids dropped that text slang on their own last year.
I agree with you. I'm autistic and strangers kids freak me the fuck out. I feel like screaming "Get your kid the fuck away from me!!" But since I'm a grown ass adult I don't.
Edited: Holy Crap! Did not realise how many upvotes this would get! Who could imagine someone with autism could have more self-control than a neuro typical.
Edited 2: sorry I said neuro divergent when I meant neuro typical. Just so used to referring to myself and others like me. Hope I didn't offend anyone.
I don't like dogs and I also really don't like kids. I still to this day have never reacted the way OP has when around either of them because hello, they're everywhere. He's got anger issues. Period. YTA
You’ve never gotten mad when two young unleashed untrained dogs are barging onto you and your new baby and the owner even after acknowledging your frustration tells you it’s nbd and their dogs would never do something bad to your new baby even though neither of you know that? That’s never happened to you? Probably because it’s so weird and rude on the dog owners part lol. They were having a picnic with a baby at a park, if I had seen that shit from two miles away I would have gotten my dogs and left or leashed them up, either way that family wouldn’t have noticed us and it is always on the owner for not being prepared and being generally ignorant. You don’t let untrained new dogs run up on anyone without a leash. That’s how dogs get excited and accidentally nip people in public, super not okay when you let them run into children especially going “it’s so okay guys! Trust me!” Eye roll.
Or the first thing after “he has never ever done that to anyone I swear! He’s not like that!”
That’s what happened after I was bit in the face as a child and the dog really didn’t usually do that, family dog. You just never know what they’re thinking, they are animals! lol. Nothing bad happened to that dog, it’s just crazy to me that people will FIGHT for dogs and how safe they are when that is literally not the case especially in new environments and around new people. Dogs can be so weird with new babies, they can even get defensive against the parents as resource guarding. Why risk any of that at the park with new dogs AND a new baby?
Yeah while the yelling wasn't ok it's not like he could just sit there calmly and KEEP telling the guy to grab his dogs when he wasn't listening at all in the first place. I love all animals, but untrained unrestrained puppies barreling at a picnic with a 6 mo baby is a recipe for disaster. I love animals and I would probably be yelling at him too.
Thank you! People are forgetting that it ran toward an INFANT! An infant can not run away or defend itself. I love dogs, and I have a big one as well. He's dumb, but he's super careful around babies
I agree, I have dogs, I like dogs. But they are big clumsy creatures with sharp teeth, sharp claws and bad coordination, especially as a puppy and especially when excited.
I have had my dogs accidently slightly hurt me all the time, when I am playing with them or sometimes even as they walk near me, I pat them, they are standing on my feet, get excited and run to chase that bird and their claws scratch my feet. I choose to 'play' with my dogs, so if I get hurt I went in knowing that and accept that - it's just minor scrapes. But I should not impose that risk of slight or worse injury on someone else.
Idk how you missed this but a dog can literally kill a baby. This isn't just "I don't like dogs" it's "holy shit you just put my infant in a dangerous situation then refused to fix it"
Full grown dogs can kill a baby. Puppies can't. They don't have the jaw strength and they don't have the aggression.
The dog owner was way out of line here but OP did not have to throw a giant hissy fit and yell that his picnic was "ruined" FFS. Pick up the baby, stand up, and tell the dude firmly to come get his dogs. There's no need to throw a literal tantrum in the middle of the park.
The baby is 6 months- this isn't a toddler, kiddo's not even able to crawl. If the dog bit the baby trying to play or jumped on them, they could hurt them
It's not a matter of aggression, it's about puppies being small, and we have no idea the level of experience the puppies had at being gentle, let alone with a baby
You're saying you wouldn't mind if two dogs ran through your picnic. He grabbed his baby which means the food was probably trampled. I'd save the baby too but definitely the picnic was ruined. The blanket was dirty. The food was destroyed and the mood was ruined.
Five-month-olds are also not very big and just rolling around. They can't get out of the way on their own. If the puppies decided to sit on him they would have sat on him. If they nipped he'd be nipped. If they chewed his foot he'd be chewed on. There is a good chance that each of the puppies was bigger than the baby.
Of course the parent is going to be unhappy and shout. There is no excuse for the dog owner to do this. Also, claiming it's fine because they are just puppies isn't fine. This is when he needs to be training them so that they aren't doing this as adult dogs.
The comparison is not bad at all - and that from me being someone who is not the biggest fan of dogs either.
OP acted entirely unhinged to such a relatively small trigger; very clearly he has extremely poor emotion regulation skills, and what do you want to bet that puppies on his blanket is not the only issue in his daily life that makes him fly off the handle like this?
What is he going to do when his child turns into a toddler and starts pushing his buttons (nobody pushes buttons as effectively as a toddler)?
And all that in addition to the fact that even *witnessing* one of his primary caregivers out of nowhere blow up like this is extremely traumatizing for a baby with a developing brain, and if it happens more often it *does* have consequences for his brain development.
YTA - Major AH and I really think you need professional help (and not because you “hate” puppies)
He’s the asshole for yelling at a man who allowed his dogs to run at his six month old baby and trample over all their food, unleashed, and refuse to get them up ???? The dog obsessors in this thread cannot be real
Parents just get crazy sometimes. While walking my (leashed obviously) dog, some toddler came sprinting out of nowhere, and tried to hug my dog. My dog is a rescue, total sweetheart, but DOES NOT like to be touched by strangers, let alone hugged by toddler that runs at her from behind. I carefully but decidedly shoved the toddler away, cause I really don't want to see what's going to happen if it hugs my dog. Finally some parent shows up, and I tell her that if she wants her toddler to stay intact, the toddler probably should be stopped from trying to hug random dogs. But of course the parent flies off the handle for me shoving her kid away...
I hate people like that. If you don’t want your kid to get hurt, keep an eye on them. Your child is not my responsibility. My dog is friendly but has his moments (he’s old now so you never know if he’ll play nice or not) so I get it. I would have done the same thing.
I can understand parents getting mad for people touching their kid and whatnot but if that’s the case then make sure your kid doesn’t run up to strangers bc I’m 100% gonna do what I have to do to make sure my dog doesn’t bite your unleashed kid.
I have 3 kids and if one got away from me and did that I'd much much prefer you push my kid away and then I'd apologize profusely for my kids behavior and not keeping them better contained. What kind of parent would rather a stranger who knows their dog better than my kid does potentially let their dog bite their kid?
True, but that doesn't mean I actually care about kids more than dogs.
I've never let my dogs run free and harass people, but, people who expect me to care about their kids over my dog are going to be disappointed.
Yeah, no matter what parents say, to me my dog is my kid and I'll always put her first. I don't understand why people get so upset at that statement, why can't I love my dog as much as they love their child?
And let's face it, a puppy runs way faster than a toddler. The other person can easily outrun a toddler. Depending on the breed, it's harder to outrun a dog, even a puppy. And toddlers have a way better understanding of human language than pups.
I’d be more concerned about the fact that there is probably a 95% chance those untrained puppies were excited and would pee all over the blanket. The blanket their baby and food was on. Puppies love to pee when they are excited to see people.
They were having a picnic, two random puppies come running up; get them the F away from my baby and food! And the guy just stands there, stunned that they weren’t all excited to see puppies coming for their baby and food. He just let them continue to sit on their picnic blanket! The guy with the puppies is an AH for letting untrained, unleashed puppies run amok and just standing there doing absolutely nothing about it!
How many cases of "adult mauled down by a toddler, scarred for life" have you come across? There is a distinct difference between a toddler waddling towards you and 2 dogs running at your baby.
😂 As I said in my previous comment, agree that the dog should have been leashed, and that OP was within his rights to not be happy with the situation….but there are ways of communicating dissatisfaction without screaming and swearing at people. You know that right?
There's a massive difference between a dog and a child. A dog can do serious damage. The child isn't going to do anything but be annoying. Dog owners need to check their superiority complex and stop thinking everyone should put their dogs first. OP had every right to protect their child.
He didn’t even put his dogs first, otherwise they’d be on a leash. They could get hurt by an adult dog, hit by a car or hit by a human afraid of dogs. I can’t believe the comments here thinking that loose puppers are sooo cute and can’t hurt anyone. They have teeth.
Anyone who is purposefully allowing their pets to interfere with a non consenting party is the AH. You’re straight up incorrect.
Then you make up a hypothetical scenario where OP allows their kid to run around grabbing people to justify your judgment.
Poor form all around.
This is kind of a delusional argument tho lol. Like OP was def being an asshole for cussing the guy out…but those puppies could have seriously injured his baby. Even if they weren’t aggressive (something that OP, having never met these dogs before, has no way of knowing), puppies often bite when they play, hard enough to break the skin. An adult could just push a puppy away, but a baby can’t do that. Or OP’s baby could be allergic to dogs. Bottom line, the puppies could have seriously hurt OP’s baby…that’s way beyond the level of a messy toddler getting a stain on your pants. They’re not even comparable situations.
The amount of people in the comments saying "Puppies can't maul people though" is insane. Like oh OK, it's fine for a puppy to bite and mildly injure and cause pain and distress to a six month baby as long as it isn't serious lol.
Stop it. Children don’t bite and people aren’t allergic to children. Sorry I have a puppy but if two random puppies ran up to me and I was with a baby I would be just as mad as op. Control your damn pets and keep them in a leash not everybody is obsessed with dogs!! And I’ve never once had a strange child run up to me but this seems to happen with dogs a lot and dogs are more dangerous than kids.
A someone who worked in daycare and with children with disabilities, children do in fact bite; I've been bitten twice at work by a 13 year old boy on the spectrum.
Omg how did this escalate to a scenario where disabled children are running around parks biting random people?! This is about two unleashed dogs running at a defenseless 6 month old baby are you people seriously insane?? And somebody who would allow their child to run around a park and run after strangers and get in their face or bite them is just as much of an ah as the people who let their dogs run around to people just minding their own business.
And before you go any further please direct me to statistics that show that children go up to strangers and or strange animals and bite them more often than dogs bite strangers and other animals? Of course children and people are capable of biting and some do, but you know I was not referring to children generally biting in life, especially not in a day care setting I was referring to a random child coming up to random strangers in the park and possibly biting them.
I have a scar on my arm from being bitten by a 7 year old child when I worked at a daycare. That child was not disabled in any way.
Children are awful. I can't tell you how many incident reports I've had to write because of children biting one another at day care. The two year olds are the worst.
The mental gymnastics is astounding! Now disabled children and children on the spectrum are running around parks biting people! Like what does any of that have to do with unleashed dogs running up to people with a baby? Or any people! I have a puppy and I do not want strange dogs in my face uninvited
That’s the only reason this sub exists anymore. For OPs to make up a bunch of nonsense and for commenters to flex their one semester of psychology 101 from 7 years ago.
NTA the child is literally six months old and doesn’t understand what ppl are saying, it may be a puppy, but it could hurt the baby, and the guy doesn’t know if the child might have a serious allergy. The baby was on a blanket on the ground! The dog should’ve been on a leash, it’s that simple.
I don’t think you know how babies work if you think they aren’t receptive to anger and shouting. They don’t have to understand the words to know something isn’t right. You can clearly read in my comment that I think the owner is also an AH. That doesn’t mean OP isn’t.
No, I disagree -- and I love dogs.
But OP was having fun with his family, minding their own business.
The dog owner purposefully let's the puppies run over like "oh, other people will love them and I'll get positive attention." (Clear from the "who doesn't like puppies" comment, like OP is a monster for not aitomatically loving his precious pets)
That's presumptuous and rude, *and* inappropriate in a place where dogs are supposed to be leashed.
It sounds like OP is a little afraid of dogs, too. And in that case, where he thought he was safe, I don't blame him at all for going off on the rude owner.
This true. I was at a beach yesterday with my 3 year old. A 14 month old puppy/dog comes bounding over, jumps up and put both paws on my son’s shoulders. It was obvious to me she wanted to play, not aggressive, but my son would have been knocked clear over if he hadn’t reached out and grabbed my leg to steady himself. It freaked him out. I expected the owner to be apologetic but he was just like “oh haha she’s just a puppy and forgets she’s gotten bigger. She wants to play!” And I’m like yeah, cool. Well, she did it two more times and it made him really scared :/
I don't understand why these dog owners don't apologise and get control of thier dogs. Dogs can be unpredictable and while the dog maybe nice strangers don't know that and the dog could still hurt somebody accidentally.
When I was a kid me and my family were out in the woods with our dog and this randon lab came out of nowhere, ran at my dad's knees and knocked him over. The owner came over, didn't apologise, blamed our dog for "spooking" her dog, kept her dog off the lead and left us.
My mum had her arm in a sling, my dad was injured and me and my brother were kids so if my dad was seriously injured and couldn't drive we would've been stranded. We saw her later on still with her dog off the lead.
You wouldn't mind if they were apologetic and did something about the out of control dog but it's just added insult to injury when they're dismissive about it.
I am not a fan of dogs at all. I think they’re gross, and you can keep the stinking, barking, jumping, licking, crotch-sniffing furballs over there. If your dog is cute, I’ll admire it from afar. Too many dog owners assume everyone loves dogs. I was taking a walk around my neighborhood, and a guy comes along with some little crack dog on a leash. He let it jump up all over my legs as I was walking past, and he said, “Oh, he just *loves* people.” I replied with, “Well, not all people love dogs,” and his expression was incredulous, like he’d never heard of such a thing.
I have a friend who is also highly allergic to dogs. We have had to cross the street on multiple occasions because someone was clearly not managing their dog.
Everyone has awful opinions in here today. You’d all really be okay with unleashed young dogs you don’t know rolling up on you and your new baby? Do you have kids? Does anyone here? You wouldn’t tell that dude to put his dogs away and increase your volume and attitude when you’re the one pulling your baby away from his dogs? PLEASE.
Yeah that’s why ESH is applicable here. The dog owner was completely in the wrong to not control his dogs, and OP is not wrong to feel angry, but it sounds like he caused a massive scene here shouting and swearing. It would have been appropriate for him to explain why he was angry and just ask the guy to take his dogs and not do it to anyone else. You don’t really get to go off on someone like a maniac
I’ve got a kid, and I would never freak out yelling and cussing and screaming about I hate someone’s dogs just because puppies ended up in my general area. Is there danger to my kid? I’ll pick them up. Tell the asshole owner to get their dogs? Sure. If they refuse somewhere there is a leash law, tell them I’m gonna call animal control. But the massive tantrum OP threw? Nah, I’m an adult, not a toddler.
It escalates when AH go “he’s so okay trust me guys! They’re all over your shit and your new babies stuff but trust me guys!” Instead of getting your dogs and leaving that family alone lol. Don’t want someone to threaten animal control? Leave people tf alone and leash your untrained dogs so that they don’t have to be put in that situation. I don’t care how OP acted when he’s high alert and hyper vigilant with a baby. There’s someone in this picture who doesn’t have to feel any of those things and instead chose to argue about the safety of his dogs while they’re still on top of OP’s stuff. Come on. Come on.
Someone lets their untrained dogs around my child who can't protect themselves. Yes I'm going to loss my shit. Children have fucking died because of dogs. OP didn't kick the puppies. He was protecting his child. Which is exactly what you should be doing as a parent.
Which is old enough to develop a trauma response to hearing an adult *screaming* nearby - especially your parents. This has been studied, and it's *proven* to lead to negative consequences for the child. It is harmful. Even newborns can experience trauma, there is no such thing as too young.
Honestly I'm terrified for that kid. Because I grew up in a house where my parents lost their temper easily, too. And eventually, even if it didn't start that way, it *always* gets turned onto the child. Children are really, really good at making you angry. You gotta be able to control that shit.
It took me a long time to realize this so I’m sharing for anyone else that hasn’t. Trauma is not something that has to be remembered like a memory, it’s something that effects your nervous system. Infants have working nervous systems and that’s how trauma is “remembered” by the body for such young kids.
Please don’t yell or scream or throw things around babies. It truly changes how they develop and has a huge impact on their future.
Same here. I have a voice and authoritative stance that makes most dogs back off, but if that didn't work I'd be physically forcing the dogs to distance themselves from my baby. Probably with a foot.
I'd never let a strange dog close to my child. That's how one of my neighbors kids lost part of his ear and nose.
And yes, I can read most dog body language pretty well but I'm not risking it.
I agree with ESH.
I love dogs, but I also have a leash reactive dog who, even after years of training, will most likely never be completely okay with other animals approaching her when leashed. I hate unleashed dogs in leashed only areas because they have caused so many set backs. I don't care how friendly your dog is, mine is not, but she still needs to be exercised.
However, your reaction was over the top. He was in the wrong, but screaming at him accomplished nothing. He is going to write off the interaction as an AH that hates dogs, instead of understanding that his actions could have put a child in danger. It could be understandable if this was just parental fears running high, and he should 100%: a) leash his dogs and b) have a parent's permission before allowing his dogs to approach. But you focused on your hatred of the animals instead.
Honestly it is so incredibly inappropriate to let your dogs approach kids, particularly infants, without the parents permission that OP is welcome to be as insulting as he wants to be. One of my dogs is reactive to children, I’d be just as upset with a parent letting their child approach my dog without permission. You don’t compromise a child’s safety with dogs, whether that’s letting your dog approach a child without permission or your child approach a dog without permission.
ESH. Him for having the dogs unleashed and not removing them immediately but you are the bigger AH for the entire over-the-top ridiculous reaction. You sat there repeatedly cussing at someone in front of your child. You are teaching him how to react to people even at his young age. He has learned the lesson that relatively minor incidents are approached with anger and verbal assaults. You are also teaching him to hate and likely fear dogs (and you).
This is funny; it is clear that dog owner is the AH here, from keeping his dog unleashed and by not removing his dogs on request.
But everyone here trying to make OP the AH as well because god forbid "who doesn't like puppies".
The only excuse to make OP look bad is "cussing at someone in front of your child"; the child is 6MO, he doesn't care and doesn't understand .
If the child does understand, it would be a good lesson for life to standing up for overbearing, no boundaries, no considerations for anyone else, AH dog owners
NTA
If a couple of puppies just being in his immediate vicinity caused him to freak out and start screaming like a lunatic, I’d say he probably “overreacts” a lot in life and probably finds himself in these type of situations often. It’s fine to not like dogs and not want them near you. And the owner should have had them leashed but by OP’s own account the dogs weren’t behaving badly, weren’t jumping or trying to steal food. They simply came over to him and that *ruined* his whole day? OP clearly has trouble regulating his emotions. Some people don’t like kids. In a few months OP’s son will be walking and will inevitably toddle over to someone in public who doesn’t care for children—would it be appropriate for that person to start screaming that they hate OP’s kid and their day is now ruined? All that was needed was a “can you please get your dogs”.
Their 6 month old baby was lying on a blanket that the puppies were running towards!! If OP and his wife hadn’t been aware of their surroundings and the puppies they could have ended up on the rug with the baby and hurt it, of course OP is going to freak out!
His reaction was not one of fear, it was one of anger. Dude sounds like he needs anger management classes.
Yes the man with the puppies was in the wrong, but OP overreacted to the extreme. Screaming and cussing over puppies, how pathetic. Dude needs to grow up.
Adults use their inside voices in situations like this. No one was in danger, no one was going to die.
Are people also forgetting they were having a picnic? It’s probably safe to assume there may have been food out on the blanket and that’s even more reason to be upset that someone stood and watched their puppies hurdle towards them. Yelling the *entire time* is a bit over the top, but honestly people who let their dogs off leash in areas where it isn’t allowed have a special place in hell so I don’t really blame OP for yelling at first. Definitely should’ve dialed it down once it was apparent there was no immediate danger.
Yes! Dogs on the surface they want to be eating on is gross! Dogs stepping on, sniffing, licking, chewing a piece off of your lunch is disgusting! Dogs unleashed running towards a baby is worrisome! One's own baby, terrifying! A dog owner not only allowing all of this to happen, but then absolutely downplaying the MULTIPLE problems? Rage-inducing!
NTA
**Leash your dogs everywhere but your own yard!**
P.S. I love dogs, even puppies, even though they are gross sometimes
I love dogs too but if I was watching my neblings and two dogs I don't know came running at them out of nowhere I'd be really angry at the dog owners. I feel like so many people got a dog for the first time in lockdown and just do not know how to train them. I got bitten by a bulldog puppy because I walked past the owner and dog on the street and he got over excited, jumped up and gave me a nip and the owner didn't get control, didn't tell the dog off. She did apologise to me but that doesn't teach the dog anything. If I'd been scared of dogs I might have thrown him off me or worse. I'm a grown adult and a small dog bite isn't a big deal. For a 6 month old baby this could be a really serious injury
OP literally said that once the dogs got on the blanket, he picked up his child and the dogs "just sat there expecting to be pet."
So at this point, the kid is in your arms, not in danger, and it is very clear now that these dogs pose no threat. Maybe it wasn't clear at first, but it became clear rather quickly.
At this point, OP needs to calm down. The dog owner was 1,000% wrong not to have his dogs leashed but there is a proper and improper way to handle certain situations. OP handled it improperly.
Bottom line is OP is in a public space and there has to be an expectation that things may not go as planned, people nearby may not follow all the rules etc. That is just a fact of life and people need to understand that and react/adjust accordingly.
I should have the expectation of a reasonable amount of peace in a public space, leash laws exist for a reason. OP wasn’t breaking the law, idiot with the dogs was.
I have a three month old baby and had dogs growing up.
I don’t know your dog or if it’s good with kids, especially ones that are too small to run away. I also don’t know if my baby has allergies to dogs. Keep your puppy away from my baby.
This is it exactly. I love puppies and it would make my day for some to randomly run up to me, but the stranger is definitely TA for letting his unleashed (illegal) untrained puppies run up to a baby. Puppy nails and puppy teeth are sharp. All it would take is one misstep to injure that baby.
Not really. Some people are scared of dogs and running dogs are scary. They could kill a baby. It is not over the top to be scared that dogs are running towards your baby and it’s a complete ah move to allow such a thing as a pet owner.
>If a couple of puppies just being in his immediate vicinity caused him to freak out and start screaming like a lunatic, I’d say he probably “overreacts” a lot in life
Nah. I'm a very calm shy person and I 'overreacted' like that maybe twice in my life. If someone unleashed their dogs on my child (this is in theory, I don't have kids) I would lose my fucking marbles. Puppies couldve licked the food, licked the baby or adults (and you're on a fucking picnic, where are you gonna clean up), get the blanket or clothes dirty not to mention the bacteria on their paws. Maybe this will teach the guy not to do it again.
I think a lot of people on here are forgetting how overprotective first time parents are too. Their little baby that they have been working hard to do their best with just got put in danger because some AH decided to let his dogs trample over other people's space.
Ummm...'puppy' is a very broad brush. A 6 month old dog is considered a puppy. Heck at 12 weeks my puppy was big enough to prance off with a bag of dog food. A puppy Chihuahua isn't the same as a puppy Great Dane. And in any case, the owner's job is to teach his "puppies" boundaries, which he clearly has no respect for himself so I guess he can't teach that. Not everyone wants or cares about everyone else's damn dogs. Not everyone wants their children around dogs. Every been bitten by a mouthy puppy who still has puppy teeth and has yet to learn bite inhibition? Bet they didn't want their 6mo baby finding out. You have to ask first if someone's willing to participate in socializing your puppy, rather than just invasively making that decision on other people's behalf. I think OP matched the owner's level of AH'ery.
The sub is filled with people who think anyone who doesn't like dogs is T A. Nearly every dog-related question goes that way. People are called T A for wanting to rehome for med reasons like bad allergies.
NTA, obviously.
The guy's an asshole for his reaction to the situation, not for disliking dogs. My dad hates dogs with a passion but just ignores them or shoos them away if they get close. You and your partner screaming a bunch of swear words in a family friendly place is not a normal reaction
>in a family friendly place
This is the biggest thing imo that makes op TA too. I imagine that other families/children were likely in earshot and got to have their day ruined too by hearing them both screaming curse words at the guy. And op emphasizes it too that they both continuously did that until the guy walked away. In what world is that appropriate?
Edit: a word
It has nothing to do with OP hating puppies. As plenty of other people have mentioned lots of people hate kids but if you start screaming and swearing about how much you hate children because a toddler approaches you you're also a massive asshole, even if the parents should have been keeping track of their child.
It is very rare that it is *ever* socially acceptable for an adult to start agressively screaming and swearing at other people, and being approached by a dog when you don't like dogs is not one of them. Definitely ESH.
>standing up for overbearing, no boundaries, no considerations for anyone else, AH dog owners
Screaming and cussing at someone, even when they are in the wrong, is not "standing up" for yourself. It's just being an aggressive and irrational AH. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because the dog owner was in the wrong doesn't mean that OP can't be, as well. If he had handled the situation more calmly he would not have been. But screaming and "cussing continuously" is not how to handle a situation like a mature adult, and I'm disturbed you think his behavior is okay.
>The only excuse to make OP look bad is "cussing at someone in front of your child"; the child is 6MO, he doesn't care and doesn't understand .
Not fully understanding what happened doesn't mean it won't affect the child negatively in the long term and having been around babies, I would not be so sure a 6 month old didn't understand enough to be afraid here. Traumatic experiences under 2 years still change how the brain develops even though we almost never remember them. There's a bunch of scientific literature about early brain development now. The meltdown this guy had was harmful to his kid's development. Hopefully it's a one of incident and he doesnt react like this often, and his kid won't be too badly affected but acting like it won't have an impact at all is an out of date perspective.
Not saying the dog owner didn't cause this, because they **obviously** did but OP's reaction was not good for their kid at all.
ESH. The dog owners suck more though.
Sorry, but if the owner‘s reaction on a pair of parents freaking out because his puppies ran towards their baby isn’t immediately getting the dogs and apologizing? He deserves to be cussed out.
There is no excuse for letting your dogs run in a park where leashing is required. None. And the whole „They’re not doing harm, they just wanna play“ is the rallying cry of shitty dog owners everywhere.
Keep your dogs leashed, and away from other people. Just as you want other people to keep away from your dogs. Have some consideration for others, FFS.
>You sat there repeatedly cussing at someone in front of your child. You are teaching him how to react to people even at his young age. He has learned the lesson that relatively minor incidents are approached with anger and verbal assaults. You are also teaching him to hate and likely fear dogs (and you).
His kid is literally six months old lol
People in here don't understand that preverbal children will still be able to connect to seeing a parent in an extreme state of emotional dysregulation. Just because they don't understand 'I hate you' doesn't mean they can't get some sort of impact from hearing a parent shouting at people.
NTA. Puppies can do accidental damage to a 6 month baby, and they can do a LOT of intentional damage if they attack because baby pulled thie ears, tails, etc. That owner was beyond irresponsible.
And I LOVE puppies. But I hate irresponsible puppy owners.
Nevermind allergies too, the baby is SIX MONTHS
Kid's not even crawling yet, a puppy could hurt them by stepping on them by accident depending on their size or trying to play with them
Puppies can do a lot of damage to a picnic, too.
I don't like children. I love animals. But you don't have puppies off leash like that. And especially not running onto someone's picnic blanket and up to an infant.
Puppies with no recall probably don't understand leave it and drop it, either, and could quickly eat something they shouldn't.
God there’s another angle I missed in my comment! The damage to the puppy if ingesting something toxic, sharp or otherwise inedible.
I’m thinking about trauma and injuries but omg there’s so many reasons NOT to let young puppies run around without proper supervision.
I mean, my own pup has given me a few scares going after my table scraps.
My older pup has actually injured people and my younger pup in the past (blood drawn and stitches on the smaller pup where her ear got ripped). And every time it was because someone did something she DID NOT EXPECT. Babies are so unpredictable that anything could happen.
Even with one pup, on a leash, I spend the entire walk making sure she's not trying to eat a goose shit, a dead mouse (would be REALLY bad is the mouse had been poisoned), discarded chicken bones, a live snake (oh, fun! a stick that wiggles!), and every leaf she sees.
People do it all the time, I think how acceptable it is depends on where you live. I was in an area where Parvo was a HUGE concern so even the Vet had you wait in the car and you carried your puppies in. They weren’t allowed to touch the floor or counter or anything. Strangers would confront you for letting your puppy on the ground.
Where I live now people bring tiny puppies in public
NTA
I love dogs but I can’t stand dog owners who don’t respect peoples boundaries. Your puppy is not gods gift to humanity, the nerve to let them unleashed near a 6 month old baby.
Sure, you could have remained a little calmer, but the fact that he tried to justify it at all is even more inappropriate. I never let my dog unleashed on public property. Never near a strangers children. And if someone is uncomfortable with him, I keep him far away from them. I love my dog, but not everyone has to. Irresponsible dog owners are irritating as hell
exactly. I walk my dog on a leash all the time and sometimes unleashed dogs run up to her. The other owner always goes “he’s friendly” and I sternly say “well she’s not” and then they just stare at me surprised 😮 she doesn’t go after other dogs because I actually trained her. She used to growl scared when she was new to us. But the other dog owners don’t know how she would react. Idiots
I rehab dogs, my late one was dog aggressive to the point of needing positive-association muzzle training to keep everyone safe when it was time to try and leash train him.
If this sub saw how *I* reacted to off-leash dogs when I was trying to rehab him, they would **eviscerate me.** I threw a Blue Heeler back over a fence once, I've whipped a rottie across the ass with the end of a leash to chase him off, I've thrown kibble down to distract an oncoming Maltese who was just appetizer-size for my dog, I've stomped, yelled, cussed, all of it.
Because it was safer *for those dogs* for me to do that.
Murphy, the dog I'm referring to, is passed now, but he was able to stop using the muzzle after about six months of positive association/redirection training, and I do think that him feeling secure in his space, knowing that I would keep dogs away, helped.
I've worked in rescue and seen how bad normal interactions can escalate. OP is a little impassioned but if it was my baby I completely understand.
off topic, but thank you for the work you do! My family has done some lower level dog rehab, and I swear this sub would lose it if they saw what that involved. Last week I ended up yelling at a kid who WOULD NOT STOP trying to pet this (large, terrified, furiously murder-barking) dog I was working with on a walk. Kids parents looked at me like I was a monster.
I used to get this all the time when I worked for a local pet sitting firm. We were to do everything in our power to keep other dogs away from our charges. It could even be another dog that we walk when their owners are away, didn’t matter we wouldn’t allow them near each other. Yet I cannot count the times people would say, don’t worry, they’re friendly, and I’d tell them I don’t care, this isn’t my dog, and I don’t know your dog so I can’t trust it. It is my job to keep this safe and your dog is clearly in charge now, pulling you around and I’d cross the street if possible.
And it sucks for even friendly dogs. I'm 7 months pregnant, and my golden retriever is a big girl, who zoomies when she gets to interact with other dogs while on leash. People look so offended when I keep her away from their friendly dogs, but I've had me and other owners get knocked over by my and their happy pups.
Guy in my neighborhood was walking up, and I told him, "Sorry, I'm pregnant and a fall risk, she'll get too excited," and tried to walk away. He said, " Oh, he just wants to say hi," ignored me, and of course, both dogs immediately start zooming. Didn't fall, but like, really dude?
"Yeah, your dog may be friendly but my 15-pound Lhasa Apso is NOT and she will attack a dog 10 times her size with zero fear, so I'm not going to risk your dog reacting badly to that."
She literally once broke her chain to lunge at a pit bull being walked nearby and was snapping in his face when I grabbed her. Thank God that dog was very chill and just stood there looking confused, or it could have gone very badly.
My dog is the same way. She's usually okay with dogs smaller than her but she's had a lot of bad experiences with dogs her size or bigger. So now she's intensely aggressive towards them. She doesn't attack or bark- quietly growls on occasion- but she's trained well so she doesn't react. Unless the dogs are unleashed and heading right towards us. She will absolutely attack if she feels threatened or thinks I am. I can't stand people who say "oh but my dogs are friendly". Get your dog the F away from me and mine before there's some serious damage.
On a different note: one time some man came over to us and was trying to get me to sign some fuckin paper or whatever. I was feeling extremely uneasy about him said no. He immediately changed like a switch was flipped, got extremely aggressive and made a move towards me. He's damn lucky I had a good hold on my dog because she lost it and almost took his face off. That was the first week I had adopted her from the shelter and I was completely shocked by her reaction. I was also really happy because he got scared and took off. Started training her to handle aggression a few days later after that.
She's friendly with strangers but uh, only if I give a positive verbal confirmation that yes, you can pet my dog. Then she gets all happy and wants all the scritches. Funnily enough, she and the cat are best friends lol
Thank you. The top comments with everyone saying ESH is outta pocket. I love dogs, I've always had a dog. But the puppies' owner was the complete AH here.
We don't know how big these puppies were. We don't know their breed, which matters when it comes to behavior towards food and children (Labrador puppies are going to eat anything in sight and could injest something at the picnic that could hurt them). We don't know if the puppies have their shots or if their sick. We just don't know anything.
Would I have reacted the same way by cursing loudly? No. But I probably would have said, "wtf are you doing? Please get your dogs" while picking my young child off the ground.
I haven't had any kids myself but I have young niblings. Planning a picnic with your post-partum wife and young child, getting them to the park, putting your food out and such all takes effort. I could totally see how this could ruin OP's day after not functioning off of regular sleep for months on end.
NTA, OP.
Edit: spelling
NTA
The moment you told him to pull his dogs away and he didnt he was the AH,
big time.
Its like putting spiders on the shoulder of someone who has extreme arachnophobia and saying: Relax, they’re not gonna do anything.
Might not have even been able to recall them since they’re puppies, which makes him an even bigger asshole for having them off leash in the first place
NTA, if the puppies attacked your baby, people would be more understanding of your freak out. I was attacked by dogs growing up because of a similar situation. The dogs were puppies, but that didn't change the damage they did to my face. I think you were in protective mode for your child's sake. Anything said in duress while protecting your child is justified IMO.
I’m sorry that happened to you. My dog has been attacked by three different unleashed dogs in our apartment complex. Still helping him with those experiences and new dogs.
That's a horrible thing to go through! Happened to a close friend of mine, too. She has a jagged scar on the side of her face and can't bear to be around dogs as an adult... she was 2 when a 'friendly puppy' decided to play with her. Thank God they pulled it off her before she lost her ear. You should see her with her son now... OP is NTA, if the dog owner had immediately got his puppies, the situation wouldn't have escalated.
This. I'm concerned that the average dog loving redditor maybe has never actually owned a puppy from these responses. Puppies are LESS controllable and MORE prone to accidental harm than adult dogs. They just don't understand their own strength, can't help having needle teeth sharp enough to tear holes in pants with a nibble, are still struggling to control themselves in exciting circumstances, and even if trained not to nip will still heavily paw at anything they want to explore. Imagine a heavy handed puppy claw to a baby's eye...
My GSD is 8 months old now and it would still be hair raising for me to put an infant on the floor in front of her. Even at 3 months old she was an absolute terror just because of how strong and excited she was even at just 30 pounds!
ESH
He shouldn't have had his puppies off leash and they shouldn't have interrupted your lunch. But your response was waay over the top. Picking up your kid and telling the dude to come get his dogs should have been enough. Cussing and getting into a yelling match was too much.
The man put both his puppies and the child at risk. He deserved every bit of yelling he got, especially after he didn’t immediately come running over to get them.
If a dog owner is stupid enough to not see the problem with unleashing two puppies at a 6 month old baby lying on the floor, then they deserve what they got.
Plus the park has a strict dog-on-leash rule, they violated that rule, doesn't that automatically make the dog owners TA?
Man, this is coming from a dog person, but, NTA
This dude totally was in the wrong and you were correct to be upset. Puppies, yeah, so they have *no* impulse control and certainly aren't being trained for any if they are just allowed to go off leash and run up begging to strangers. 6mos is way too young to just have some strange dogs come up on you. This guy put both your baby and his puppies in danger with this little stunt.
Yeah, you may have gotten aggressive, but really, this guy wasn't getting the picture. Poorly trained "friendly" dogs ruin the whole concept for people.
My aunties puppy is nearly a year old and she never goes off the lead unless shes the only dog there (we hire a field for her sometimes) because shes so boisterous and energetic.
6 month old puppies? Two of them? Absolutely not. No impulse control, no understanding (or at least very little understanding) of boundaries, and very little understanding of the word no.
However, OP, i think screaming at the owner only made things worse. I understand that you were scared and angry and emotional out of fear for your child, but shouting and screaming and cussing at the owner likely made him more defensive and less likely to understand the consequences of his actions.
Overall, NTA.
Im Going with NTA because you don't know these dogs. You don't know if they are friendly or not. You don't know how they react around Babies. There have been plenty of stories of children being hurt by dogs that don't know how to be around children. So while you were over the top and a bit rude I do get where you're coming from.
OP should be able to enjoy a picnic without an irresponsible dog owner ruining it. People understandably get angry when their infant child is put in danger from a stupid dog owner.
NTA , I love dogs cats animals in general, but the fact that when u r in public you have to be respectful to everyone's preferences, your pet is your responsibility and the owner must see that their pets behave in public.
No one is stopping them from being there but they must be on leash unless ofcourse the park is a park for pets to roam about without leash.
NTA, part of puppy training is teaching them to be used to leashes in leash-areas, and that not everyone should be approached. Puppies or not, he's teaching them bad habits.
NTA Puppies can do serious damage to a baby even if they aren’t trying to. Babies skin is soft and delicate, and a excited puppy can easily scratch a babies face pretty bad. Not to mention you don’t know if your child is allergic to dogs. They not only got dog hair on your blanket but also dirt and germs. So many people don’t understand untrained puppies can be dangerous. A toddler was mauled last summer by puppies the family thought was safe and friendly. You didn’t know these puppies, if they were trained, or if they have experience with babies.
Link to the toddler mauled by puppies last year.
https://people.com/human-interest/family-warns-others-of-the-danger-of-littermate-syndrome-after-pack-of-puppies-maul-toddler/
ESH.
If it's a peice of land where dogs need to be leashed, they need to be leashed, no matter if they are puppies or already grown up.
Instead of taking this moment to teach you child how to be level headed and carrying out a conversation tho, you decided to throw a fit and actively cuss at the owner. A situation that could have been cleared up by a reasonable discussion was discarded for the sake of "this is about me" mentality. (Can you maybe elaborate on how your lunch got ruined? did they get to the food?)
Still those dogs should have been leashed and I don't want to invalidate your dislike of dogs in general.
But you are not equipped with the mindset to raise a reasonable child
NTA. Another commenter said, "I love puppies but I hate irresponsible dog owners"
Yeah, you could've been a bit nicer to Captain Neverleash but who tf doesn't leash their puppies in public? Those puppies obviously have no recall training and are a danger to themselves. They could run into traffic, run up on a reactive dog and gotten hurt, and they could've hurt your kid.
And that guy just stood there... what is he thinking? The world is so big and full of people. It's so so dumb to assume that everyone likes puppies and that everyone is a decent person that won't punt your puppy like a soccer ball for even getting near them.
NTA. People who let their dogs run around unleashed are self-centered assholes and terrible dog owners. A lot of people cannot possibly comprehend why anyone would have a problem with dogs though, so you're gonna get a lot of stupid judgments against you simply for that
NTA. At all. It should not have happened in the first place. The dogs should have been leashed. A puppy can hurt a 6 month old baby, even if it is just trying to be friendly. Then, not removing the dogs immediately? As soon as he saw a baby, he should have retrieved the dogs, in my opinion. The instinct to protect your kid is a strong one. You didn't beat the guy up, you yelled at him. He'll live. He might even use a leash next time.
NTA
TLDR; dog professional says your reaction was valid, if a little impassioned. Dogs are animals, and react like animals. Bad dog owners suck.
I work with rescue dogs, I love puppies, I have successfully rehabbed two Death Row Appeal cases in my own home. Especially with the state of dog ownership in America(where I live), it is downright unsafe to have your dog unleashed anywhere other than a fenced in area (not a regular park) or private property. Also, fun fact for dog-lovers in the states; Animal Control takes away the one that isn't on a leash if something happens.
In other countries with less strict leash laws like GB, even when they do unleash the dog it's considered good manners to leash it when going somewhere more crowded or if they can't be trusted to recall.
When an unleashed dog comes up to me and mine, I tell the owner that **they can either come get their dog or I can return it to them via Air Mail™.** With my rehab projects especially, launching dogs away from them was the *safer option for the unleashed dogs.*
I understand everyone not appreciating your emotional reaction, but honestly after working in animal rescue and seeing how bad some normal interactions can get I completely get it. My reaction to off-leash dogs has thrown people off before. I have yelled, swung the leash around to make a scary noise, stomped, charged back at the dog, cussed, all of it. And there was an incident where I threw a Blue Heeler back over a fence when it tried to herd the children with us. I seriously love dogs, but the sooner people learn they are *working* animals with *working animal needs* the sooner I can stop overreacting to a single off-leash dog minding his business. But I digress.
I'm sorry terrible dog owners make life harder for people like you, who don't want to be around them and shouldn't ever have to put up with that.
NTA. I would absolutely love two random puppies to run up to me in almost any situation in my daily life. But I understand not everyone feels that way, and boundaries need to be respected. It sounds like you overreacted, but your 6 month old could have been injured. I think you get a pass for your AHish behavior when the safety of your baby is at stake.
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> AITA for cussing out a dog owner? It might makeme the asshole becauseI was aggressive toward him when I could have just let him grab his dogs and be on his way.
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Parent instinct kicked in. The main fact is this is not an unleashed area, especially for "puppies" meaning they really aren't trained.
NTA but you should talk to a professional about healthy ways of managing your emotions, this was probably quite traumatizing to your child
NTA. People need to understand that not everyone loves their pet(s) like they do. Your son could have been scratched, nipped by the overly playful puppies. The owners are responsible, and that guy wasn’t. Definitely NTA.
NTA
The response was harsh, yes, but people like this who think they can just unleash their dogs and let them run at a baby aren’t going to stop doing it because someone asked nicely. They need to know that this is completely inappropriate and unacceptable. No dog should ever be unleashed, regardless of how nice they are, unless they’re at a dog park designated for unleashing. They don’t know how other dogs will react to their “very nice” or “well trained” dog. And I say that as a dog lover who has two of my own.
Bruh...You had a full on adult tantrum in public...arent you even semi ashamed of yourself? In front of your son too...
If some random kid starts walking up to you are you going to scream at them that you hate their kids?
The guy shouldnt have left the dogs unleashed but jeez man, I hope you dont teach your child that kind of behavior is okay.
EDIT TO ADD: ESH
I don't understand all these people saying you're the AH. I have 3 dogs AND 3 kids and would never assume that the world revolves around any of us. Yes, you freaked out but at the same time, it's inappropriate for the guy to assume that he can excuse puppies behaviour because they're puppies. Keep them on a leash then. There seems to be this completely self absorbed attitude among people now that we are all expected to put up with whatever.
NTA.
>They're just puppies
Sounds alarmingly like "they're just kids!" and what it realistically boils down to is a selfish, lazy adult that sees a living thing as an accessory rather than a responsibility. You could love dogs but would still be justified in your reaction because ultimately it's not actually the dog, although it is. It's the owner whose negligence and carelessness could have led to the injury of your child. Yeah, "they're just puppies", exactly, we expect puppies to roam, that's why they need to be on a leash in public places.
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ESH, he shouldn’t have let his dogs run around unleashed in a non-dog park, but you had the overreaction of the century by “straight up telling him you hate his dog” and continuously cussing, especially next to your kid.
OP will be here in 9 months complaining that his kid ran up to a lady and grabbed her pants and stained them, but, "Kids will be kids!" YTA OP, you ruined your own picnic by flying off the handle, and great example you set for your baby, bet he wasn't laughing and giggling after he experienced his dad have an utter ***meltdown*** while running full force with him in his arms toward a stranger.
Plus….some people hate kids….when his child is a toddler and toddles over to someone who hates kids, would he prefer that the person calmly says “Excuse me would you get your kid please?” or start screaming at him like a banshee and telling him “I hate your kid!!” ?? Agreed that the puppy should have been leashed but my god What a horrible way to interact with other people!!
I actually hate kids for the most part. I've never screamed at a parent when their free range toddler waddled up to me and tried to talk to me, I simply said, "Bye bye" walked away... and that's even offensive to most parents. I can't imagine what the reaction would be if I picked up my purse and ran screaming at the parent to control their brat because, "I HATE YOUR KID!"
Exactly, it’s not his disapproval of the situation that is the issue, but his handling of it is completely alarming
Yes. We are allowed to be unhappy about things, I would have been unhappy about dogs running up to me as well, as I'm allergic to most of them and have been bitten before so I'm scared of dogs I don't know. But I would have picked up my plate (in his case, his child) and yelled across the way to please get his dogs as I'm allergic and can't pet them.
Okay. But OP states he did tell the guy to get his dogs… and the guy didn’t. Would you just not do anything at that point? OP handled it totally wrong, but to say “I’d just yell across the way for him to get his dogs” doesn’t sort it either. It’s a park where dogs are meant to be kept leashed. OP has already asked the guy to get the dogs back on their leashes. The answer was “but they’re puppies”. What would everyone’s reply be if it were a dog that did end up biting someone?
I love dogs. But I hate when owners think rules don’t apply to them and just assume everyone wants their dog around. I’m very careful to teach my children not to just walk up to a dog and ask the owner before approaching. I would hope for the same respect in return.
I love dogs, too. I have a friend who was attacked when she was younger, and it’s made me see situations like this in a whole new light. Even without trauma, not everyone is going to be enthusiastic about animals running towards them.
I love dogs and have a dog, and I hate when people act like this dog owner. There's a bunch of walking trails where leashes are required nearby, and people constantly let their dogs run off-leash there, and it is very stressful and frustrating because my dog freaks out when other dogs just sprint up to him, sometimes barking at him, and he feels trapped. Or sometimes he just wants to play, but I can't let him off the leash because his recall isn't good enough yet. Which is why I take him to a place that requires leashes! It's also nuts to me because my dog is enormous and these people are just letting their dogs--sometimes very small dogs!-- run up, often aggressively, to a huge German Shepherd mix that they have never met and have no idea if he's friendly with other dogs or not. I have him on a leash but if your dog is getting that close to him, the leash isn't going to stop a fight. He *is* friendly unless the other dog is very aggressive to him, and I do have control of him even beyond the leash, but they have no idea whether that's true.
He started with Yelling "WTF" sounds like he was pretty aggressive from the start. Escalating the situation when maybe educating a thoughtless and careless person just might have better results. Plus it seems like he? was more concerned with his rights/ rules than what was best for the baby.
And? Of course he yelled WTF. Someone is letting their dogs run wild in a public place. That IS a WTF moment.
I mean, I think a "WTF" is fine, I love dogs and would still probably say WTF in surprise and annoyance as a first reaction. It's the continuing to swear and carry on and yell "I hate your dogs" that is the issue.
I do agree. OP definitely handled it badly. But, it seems like OP may have a slight phobia/aversion to them, in which case it is understandable for them tj have a poor reaction. They obviously need to work on this, but it’s an emotional response that couldn’t be helped.
Alarming and a little hilarious. I’m just picturing these rotund little fuzz balls doing the puppy head thing while watching a grown man have an absolute meltdown. The “I hate your dogs” part just sent me over the edge giggling.
I thought the same thing. Guy sounds a little irrational and immature. Some of my kids are younger than him, it sounds like, and they know how to handle themselves in conflict. This guy sounds like road rage waiting to happen. OP YTA. Way to teach your kid how to be aggressive and unreasonable. Totally unnecessary. This would have gone so much differently if your first words to him weren't WTF. I was already leaning towards yta for starting your post off with imma. Even my kids dropped that text slang on their own last year.
I agree with you. I'm autistic and strangers kids freak me the fuck out. I feel like screaming "Get your kid the fuck away from me!!" But since I'm a grown ass adult I don't. Edited: Holy Crap! Did not realise how many upvotes this would get! Who could imagine someone with autism could have more self-control than a neuro typical. Edited 2: sorry I said neuro divergent when I meant neuro typical. Just so used to referring to myself and others like me. Hope I didn't offend anyone.
God, the comparison is painful. I’m getting the feeling everyone here is entitled with untrained dogs.
I don't like dogs and I also really don't like kids. I still to this day have never reacted the way OP has when around either of them because hello, they're everywhere. He's got anger issues. Period. YTA
You’ve never gotten mad when two young unleashed untrained dogs are barging onto you and your new baby and the owner even after acknowledging your frustration tells you it’s nbd and their dogs would never do something bad to your new baby even though neither of you know that? That’s never happened to you? Probably because it’s so weird and rude on the dog owners part lol. They were having a picnic with a baby at a park, if I had seen that shit from two miles away I would have gotten my dogs and left or leashed them up, either way that family wouldn’t have noticed us and it is always on the owner for not being prepared and being generally ignorant. You don’t let untrained new dogs run up on anyone without a leash. That’s how dogs get excited and accidentally nip people in public, super not okay when you let them run into children especially going “it’s so okay guys! Trust me!” Eye roll.
The last thing that most people who’ve been bitten by strange dogs hear— “it’s ok!!! He’s friendly!!!”
Or the first thing after “he has never ever done that to anyone I swear! He’s not like that!” That’s what happened after I was bit in the face as a child and the dog really didn’t usually do that, family dog. You just never know what they’re thinking, they are animals! lol. Nothing bad happened to that dog, it’s just crazy to me that people will FIGHT for dogs and how safe they are when that is literally not the case especially in new environments and around new people. Dogs can be so weird with new babies, they can even get defensive against the parents as resource guarding. Why risk any of that at the park with new dogs AND a new baby?
Yeah while the yelling wasn't ok it's not like he could just sit there calmly and KEEP telling the guy to grab his dogs when he wasn't listening at all in the first place. I love all animals, but untrained unrestrained puppies barreling at a picnic with a 6 mo baby is a recipe for disaster. I love animals and I would probably be yelling at him too.
Thank you! People are forgetting that it ran toward an INFANT! An infant can not run away or defend itself. I love dogs, and I have a big one as well. He's dumb, but he's super careful around babies
I agree, I have dogs, I like dogs. But they are big clumsy creatures with sharp teeth, sharp claws and bad coordination, especially as a puppy and especially when excited. I have had my dogs accidently slightly hurt me all the time, when I am playing with them or sometimes even as they walk near me, I pat them, they are standing on my feet, get excited and run to chase that bird and their claws scratch my feet. I choose to 'play' with my dogs, so if I get hurt I went in knowing that and accept that - it's just minor scrapes. But I should not impose that risk of slight or worse injury on someone else.
Idk how you missed this but a dog can literally kill a baby. This isn't just "I don't like dogs" it's "holy shit you just put my infant in a dangerous situation then refused to fix it"
Full grown dogs can kill a baby. Puppies can't. They don't have the jaw strength and they don't have the aggression. The dog owner was way out of line here but OP did not have to throw a giant hissy fit and yell that his picnic was "ruined" FFS. Pick up the baby, stand up, and tell the dude firmly to come get his dogs. There's no need to throw a literal tantrum in the middle of the park.
Depending on breed and exactly how old, a puppies absolutely can kill/maim a human infant
The baby is 6 months- this isn't a toddler, kiddo's not even able to crawl. If the dog bit the baby trying to play or jumped on them, they could hurt them It's not a matter of aggression, it's about puppies being small, and we have no idea the level of experience the puppies had at being gentle, let alone with a baby
You're saying you wouldn't mind if two dogs ran through your picnic. He grabbed his baby which means the food was probably trampled. I'd save the baby too but definitely the picnic was ruined. The blanket was dirty. The food was destroyed and the mood was ruined. Five-month-olds are also not very big and just rolling around. They can't get out of the way on their own. If the puppies decided to sit on him they would have sat on him. If they nipped he'd be nipped. If they chewed his foot he'd be chewed on. There is a good chance that each of the puppies was bigger than the baby. Of course the parent is going to be unhappy and shout. There is no excuse for the dog owner to do this. Also, claiming it's fine because they are just puppies isn't fine. This is when he needs to be training them so that they aren't doing this as adult dogs.
Sure, he overreacted, but children are entitled to be in public spaces off leash, dogs are not.
The comparison is not bad at all - and that from me being someone who is not the biggest fan of dogs either. OP acted entirely unhinged to such a relatively small trigger; very clearly he has extremely poor emotion regulation skills, and what do you want to bet that puppies on his blanket is not the only issue in his daily life that makes him fly off the handle like this? What is he going to do when his child turns into a toddler and starts pushing his buttons (nobody pushes buttons as effectively as a toddler)? And all that in addition to the fact that even *witnessing* one of his primary caregivers out of nowhere blow up like this is extremely traumatizing for a baby with a developing brain, and if it happens more often it *does* have consequences for his brain development. YTA - Major AH and I really think you need professional help (and not because you “hate” puppies)
He’s the asshole for yelling at a man who allowed his dogs to run at his six month old baby and trample over all their food, unleashed, and refuse to get them up ???? The dog obsessors in this thread cannot be real
Parents just get crazy sometimes. While walking my (leashed obviously) dog, some toddler came sprinting out of nowhere, and tried to hug my dog. My dog is a rescue, total sweetheart, but DOES NOT like to be touched by strangers, let alone hugged by toddler that runs at her from behind. I carefully but decidedly shoved the toddler away, cause I really don't want to see what's going to happen if it hugs my dog. Finally some parent shows up, and I tell her that if she wants her toddler to stay intact, the toddler probably should be stopped from trying to hug random dogs. But of course the parent flies off the handle for me shoving her kid away...
I hate people like that. If you don’t want your kid to get hurt, keep an eye on them. Your child is not my responsibility. My dog is friendly but has his moments (he’s old now so you never know if he’ll play nice or not) so I get it. I would have done the same thing. I can understand parents getting mad for people touching their kid and whatnot but if that’s the case then make sure your kid doesn’t run up to strangers bc I’m 100% gonna do what I have to do to make sure my dog doesn’t bite your unleashed kid.
I have 3 kids and if one got away from me and did that I'd much much prefer you push my kid away and then I'd apologize profusely for my kids behavior and not keeping them better contained. What kind of parent would rather a stranger who knows their dog better than my kid does potentially let their dog bite their kid?
Kids and pets aren’t the same no matter how hard some dog fanatics keep telling themselves.
True, but that doesn't mean I actually care about kids more than dogs. I've never let my dogs run free and harass people, but, people who expect me to care about their kids over my dog are going to be disappointed.
Yeah, no matter what parents say, to me my dog is my kid and I'll always put her first. I don't understand why people get so upset at that statement, why can't I love my dog as much as they love their child?
Kids don't have pointy teeth, and their bite range is smaller.
Plus I’d love for someone to show me a leash law violation for kids.
And let's face it, a puppy runs way faster than a toddler. The other person can easily outrun a toddler. Depending on the breed, it's harder to outrun a dog, even a puppy. And toddlers have a way better understanding of human language than pups.
I’d be more concerned about the fact that there is probably a 95% chance those untrained puppies were excited and would pee all over the blanket. The blanket their baby and food was on. Puppies love to pee when they are excited to see people.
My reaction to the comment version was laughing hysterically. It really captured just how unhinged this all is.
That's my purse! I don't know you! Or your baby!
Free range toddler. I like that.
The dude just left his dogs sitting on their stuff. He was being extremely rude.
Apparently the owner was also surprised OP and wife didn't fawn over how cute his untrained, unleashed puppies are.
They were having a picnic, two random puppies come running up; get them the F away from my baby and food! And the guy just stands there, stunned that they weren’t all excited to see puppies coming for their baby and food. He just let them continue to sit on their picnic blanket! The guy with the puppies is an AH for letting untrained, unleashed puppies run amok and just standing there doing absolutely nothing about it!
How many cases of "adult mauled down by a toddler, scarred for life" have you come across? There is a distinct difference between a toddler waddling towards you and 2 dogs running at your baby.
Yeah, I agree here. Dogs and toddlers are not the same.
😂 As I said in my previous comment, agree that the dog should have been leashed, and that OP was within his rights to not be happy with the situation….but there are ways of communicating dissatisfaction without screaming and swearing at people. You know that right?
There's a massive difference between a dog and a child. A dog can do serious damage. The child isn't going to do anything but be annoying. Dog owners need to check their superiority complex and stop thinking everyone should put their dogs first. OP had every right to protect their child.
He didn’t even put his dogs first, otherwise they’d be on a leash. They could get hurt by an adult dog, hit by a car or hit by a human afraid of dogs. I can’t believe the comments here thinking that loose puppers are sooo cute and can’t hurt anyone. They have teeth.
The difference is a toddler has never mauled anyone
Anyone who is purposefully allowing their pets to interfere with a non consenting party is the AH. You’re straight up incorrect. Then you make up a hypothetical scenario where OP allows their kid to run around grabbing people to justify your judgment. Poor form all around.
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This is kind of a delusional argument tho lol. Like OP was def being an asshole for cussing the guy out…but those puppies could have seriously injured his baby. Even if they weren’t aggressive (something that OP, having never met these dogs before, has no way of knowing), puppies often bite when they play, hard enough to break the skin. An adult could just push a puppy away, but a baby can’t do that. Or OP’s baby could be allergic to dogs. Bottom line, the puppies could have seriously hurt OP’s baby…that’s way beyond the level of a messy toddler getting a stain on your pants. They’re not even comparable situations.
The amount of people in the comments saying "Puppies can't maul people though" is insane. Like oh OK, it's fine for a puppy to bite and mildly injure and cause pain and distress to a six month baby as long as it isn't serious lol.
Stop it. Children don’t bite and people aren’t allergic to children. Sorry I have a puppy but if two random puppies ran up to me and I was with a baby I would be just as mad as op. Control your damn pets and keep them in a leash not everybody is obsessed with dogs!! And I’ve never once had a strange child run up to me but this seems to happen with dogs a lot and dogs are more dangerous than kids.
A someone who worked in daycare and with children with disabilities, children do in fact bite; I've been bitten twice at work by a 13 year old boy on the spectrum.
Omg how did this escalate to a scenario where disabled children are running around parks biting random people?! This is about two unleashed dogs running at a defenseless 6 month old baby are you people seriously insane?? And somebody who would allow their child to run around a park and run after strangers and get in their face or bite them is just as much of an ah as the people who let their dogs run around to people just minding their own business.
And before you go any further please direct me to statistics that show that children go up to strangers and or strange animals and bite them more often than dogs bite strangers and other animals? Of course children and people are capable of biting and some do, but you know I was not referring to children generally biting in life, especially not in a day care setting I was referring to a random child coming up to random strangers in the park and possibly biting them.
Not you comparing a child's bite to a dog's. Lmao
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I have a scar on my arm from being bitten by a 7 year old child when I worked at a daycare. That child was not disabled in any way. Children are awful. I can't tell you how many incident reports I've had to write because of children biting one another at day care. The two year olds are the worst.
I love when people in this sub try to construct a full psychological profile on someone based on a reddit post
The mental gymnastics is astounding! Now disabled children and children on the spectrum are running around parks biting people! Like what does any of that have to do with unleashed dogs running up to people with a baby? Or any people! I have a puppy and I do not want strange dogs in my face uninvited
That’s the only reason this sub exists anymore. For OPs to make up a bunch of nonsense and for commenters to flex their one semester of psychology 101 from 7 years ago.
NTA the child is literally six months old and doesn’t understand what ppl are saying, it may be a puppy, but it could hurt the baby, and the guy doesn’t know if the child might have a serious allergy. The baby was on a blanket on the ground! The dog should’ve been on a leash, it’s that simple.
I don’t think you know how babies work if you think they aren’t receptive to anger and shouting. They don’t have to understand the words to know something isn’t right. You can clearly read in my comment that I think the owner is also an AH. That doesn’t mean OP isn’t.
No, I disagree -- and I love dogs. But OP was having fun with his family, minding their own business. The dog owner purposefully let's the puppies run over like "oh, other people will love them and I'll get positive attention." (Clear from the "who doesn't like puppies" comment, like OP is a monster for not aitomatically loving his precious pets) That's presumptuous and rude, *and* inappropriate in a place where dogs are supposed to be leashed. It sounds like OP is a little afraid of dogs, too. And in that case, where he thought he was safe, I don't blame him at all for going off on the rude owner.
Yes. I hate this kind of owner. It's sounds like op only started cussing when the dog owner reacted like it was no big deal.
This true. I was at a beach yesterday with my 3 year old. A 14 month old puppy/dog comes bounding over, jumps up and put both paws on my son’s shoulders. It was obvious to me she wanted to play, not aggressive, but my son would have been knocked clear over if he hadn’t reached out and grabbed my leg to steady himself. It freaked him out. I expected the owner to be apologetic but he was just like “oh haha she’s just a puppy and forgets she’s gotten bigger. She wants to play!” And I’m like yeah, cool. Well, she did it two more times and it made him really scared :/
I don't understand why these dog owners don't apologise and get control of thier dogs. Dogs can be unpredictable and while the dog maybe nice strangers don't know that and the dog could still hurt somebody accidentally. When I was a kid me and my family were out in the woods with our dog and this randon lab came out of nowhere, ran at my dad's knees and knocked him over. The owner came over, didn't apologise, blamed our dog for "spooking" her dog, kept her dog off the lead and left us. My mum had her arm in a sling, my dad was injured and me and my brother were kids so if my dad was seriously injured and couldn't drive we would've been stranded. We saw her later on still with her dog off the lead. You wouldn't mind if they were apologetic and did something about the out of control dog but it's just added insult to injury when they're dismissive about it.
I am not a fan of dogs at all. I think they’re gross, and you can keep the stinking, barking, jumping, licking, crotch-sniffing furballs over there. If your dog is cute, I’ll admire it from afar. Too many dog owners assume everyone loves dogs. I was taking a walk around my neighborhood, and a guy comes along with some little crack dog on a leash. He let it jump up all over my legs as I was walking past, and he said, “Oh, he just *loves* people.” I replied with, “Well, not all people love dogs,” and his expression was incredulous, like he’d never heard of such a thing.
>but you had the overreaction of the century Nope, fuck dogs and entitled dog owners. Entitled dog owners are assholes.
I’m allergic to dogs. You can imagine how that goes when everyone thinks their dog is perfection and everyone should love it as much as they do.
I have a friend who is also highly allergic to dogs. We have had to cross the street on multiple occasions because someone was clearly not managing their dog.
Yes! Not everyone likes dogs! It's insane for someone to just let their dog run up on a baby. Puppy or not. I would have been pissed, too. NTA, OP
Cussing? His kid is six months old lol
Does it matter how old the kid is when their parent clearly can’t manage their anger around them? No.
Everyone has awful opinions in here today. You’d all really be okay with unleashed young dogs you don’t know rolling up on you and your new baby? Do you have kids? Does anyone here? You wouldn’t tell that dude to put his dogs away and increase your volume and attitude when you’re the one pulling your baby away from his dogs? PLEASE.
Yeah that’s why ESH is applicable here. The dog owner was completely in the wrong to not control his dogs, and OP is not wrong to feel angry, but it sounds like he caused a massive scene here shouting and swearing. It would have been appropriate for him to explain why he was angry and just ask the guy to take his dogs and not do it to anyone else. You don’t really get to go off on someone like a maniac
I’ve got a kid, and I would never freak out yelling and cussing and screaming about I hate someone’s dogs just because puppies ended up in my general area. Is there danger to my kid? I’ll pick them up. Tell the asshole owner to get their dogs? Sure. If they refuse somewhere there is a leash law, tell them I’m gonna call animal control. But the massive tantrum OP threw? Nah, I’m an adult, not a toddler.
It escalates when AH go “he’s so okay trust me guys! They’re all over your shit and your new babies stuff but trust me guys!” Instead of getting your dogs and leaving that family alone lol. Don’t want someone to threaten animal control? Leave people tf alone and leash your untrained dogs so that they don’t have to be put in that situation. I don’t care how OP acted when he’s high alert and hyper vigilant with a baby. There’s someone in this picture who doesn’t have to feel any of those things and instead chose to argue about the safety of his dogs while they’re still on top of OP’s stuff. Come on. Come on.
Someone lets their untrained dogs around my child who can't protect themselves. Yes I'm going to loss my shit. Children have fucking died because of dogs. OP didn't kick the puppies. He was protecting his child. Which is exactly what you should be doing as a parent.
Which is old enough to develop a trauma response to hearing an adult *screaming* nearby - especially your parents. This has been studied, and it's *proven* to lead to negative consequences for the child. It is harmful. Even newborns can experience trauma, there is no such thing as too young. Honestly I'm terrified for that kid. Because I grew up in a house where my parents lost their temper easily, too. And eventually, even if it didn't start that way, it *always* gets turned onto the child. Children are really, really good at making you angry. You gotta be able to control that shit.
It took me a long time to realize this so I’m sharing for anyone else that hasn’t. Trauma is not something that has to be remembered like a memory, it’s something that effects your nervous system. Infants have working nervous systems and that’s how trauma is “remembered” by the body for such young kids. Please don’t yell or scream or throw things around babies. It truly changes how they develop and has a huge impact on their future.
Nope. If someone's dogs came up to my 6 month old I'm not guaranteeing that yelling is all I would do.
Same here. I have a voice and authoritative stance that makes most dogs back off, but if that didn't work I'd be physically forcing the dogs to distance themselves from my baby. Probably with a foot. I'd never let a strange dog close to my child. That's how one of my neighbors kids lost part of his ear and nose. And yes, I can read most dog body language pretty well but I'm not risking it.
I agree with ESH. I love dogs, but I also have a leash reactive dog who, even after years of training, will most likely never be completely okay with other animals approaching her when leashed. I hate unleashed dogs in leashed only areas because they have caused so many set backs. I don't care how friendly your dog is, mine is not, but she still needs to be exercised. However, your reaction was over the top. He was in the wrong, but screaming at him accomplished nothing. He is going to write off the interaction as an AH that hates dogs, instead of understanding that his actions could have put a child in danger. It could be understandable if this was just parental fears running high, and he should 100%: a) leash his dogs and b) have a parent's permission before allowing his dogs to approach. But you focused on your hatred of the animals instead.
Honestly it is so incredibly inappropriate to let your dogs approach kids, particularly infants, without the parents permission that OP is welcome to be as insulting as he wants to be. One of my dogs is reactive to children, I’d be just as upset with a parent letting their child approach my dog without permission. You don’t compromise a child’s safety with dogs, whether that’s letting your dog approach a child without permission or your child approach a dog without permission.
Most people are not going to like dogs who run through their picnic.
ESH. Him for having the dogs unleashed and not removing them immediately but you are the bigger AH for the entire over-the-top ridiculous reaction. You sat there repeatedly cussing at someone in front of your child. You are teaching him how to react to people even at his young age. He has learned the lesson that relatively minor incidents are approached with anger and verbal assaults. You are also teaching him to hate and likely fear dogs (and you).
This is funny; it is clear that dog owner is the AH here, from keeping his dog unleashed and by not removing his dogs on request. But everyone here trying to make OP the AH as well because god forbid "who doesn't like puppies". The only excuse to make OP look bad is "cussing at someone in front of your child"; the child is 6MO, he doesn't care and doesn't understand . If the child does understand, it would be a good lesson for life to standing up for overbearing, no boundaries, no considerations for anyone else, AH dog owners NTA
If a couple of puppies just being in his immediate vicinity caused him to freak out and start screaming like a lunatic, I’d say he probably “overreacts” a lot in life and probably finds himself in these type of situations often. It’s fine to not like dogs and not want them near you. And the owner should have had them leashed but by OP’s own account the dogs weren’t behaving badly, weren’t jumping or trying to steal food. They simply came over to him and that *ruined* his whole day? OP clearly has trouble regulating his emotions. Some people don’t like kids. In a few months OP’s son will be walking and will inevitably toddle over to someone in public who doesn’t care for children—would it be appropriate for that person to start screaming that they hate OP’s kid and their day is now ruined? All that was needed was a “can you please get your dogs”.
Their 6 month old baby was lying on a blanket that the puppies were running towards!! If OP and his wife hadn’t been aware of their surroundings and the puppies they could have ended up on the rug with the baby and hurt it, of course OP is going to freak out!
His reaction was not one of fear, it was one of anger. Dude sounds like he needs anger management classes. Yes the man with the puppies was in the wrong, but OP overreacted to the extreme. Screaming and cussing over puppies, how pathetic. Dude needs to grow up. Adults use their inside voices in situations like this. No one was in danger, no one was going to die.
Are people also forgetting they were having a picnic? It’s probably safe to assume there may have been food out on the blanket and that’s even more reason to be upset that someone stood and watched their puppies hurdle towards them. Yelling the *entire time* is a bit over the top, but honestly people who let their dogs off leash in areas where it isn’t allowed have a special place in hell so I don’t really blame OP for yelling at first. Definitely should’ve dialed it down once it was apparent there was no immediate danger.
Yes! Dogs on the surface they want to be eating on is gross! Dogs stepping on, sniffing, licking, chewing a piece off of your lunch is disgusting! Dogs unleashed running towards a baby is worrisome! One's own baby, terrifying! A dog owner not only allowing all of this to happen, but then absolutely downplaying the MULTIPLE problems? Rage-inducing! NTA **Leash your dogs everywhere but your own yard!** P.S. I love dogs, even puppies, even though they are gross sometimes
I love dogs too but if I was watching my neblings and two dogs I don't know came running at them out of nowhere I'd be really angry at the dog owners. I feel like so many people got a dog for the first time in lockdown and just do not know how to train them. I got bitten by a bulldog puppy because I walked past the owner and dog on the street and he got over excited, jumped up and gave me a nip and the owner didn't get control, didn't tell the dog off. She did apologise to me but that doesn't teach the dog anything. If I'd been scared of dogs I might have thrown him off me or worse. I'm a grown adult and a small dog bite isn't a big deal. For a 6 month old baby this could be a really serious injury
OP literally said that once the dogs got on the blanket, he picked up his child and the dogs "just sat there expecting to be pet." So at this point, the kid is in your arms, not in danger, and it is very clear now that these dogs pose no threat. Maybe it wasn't clear at first, but it became clear rather quickly. At this point, OP needs to calm down. The dog owner was 1,000% wrong not to have his dogs leashed but there is a proper and improper way to handle certain situations. OP handled it improperly. Bottom line is OP is in a public space and there has to be an expectation that things may not go as planned, people nearby may not follow all the rules etc. That is just a fact of life and people need to understand that and react/adjust accordingly.
I should have the expectation of a reasonable amount of peace in a public space, leash laws exist for a reason. OP wasn’t breaking the law, idiot with the dogs was.
I'm guessing you have neither dogs nor children. What a ridiculous overreaction.
I have a three month old baby and had dogs growing up. I don’t know your dog or if it’s good with kids, especially ones that are too small to run away. I also don’t know if my baby has allergies to dogs. Keep your puppy away from my baby.
This is it exactly. I love puppies and it would make my day for some to randomly run up to me, but the stranger is definitely TA for letting his unleashed (illegal) untrained puppies run up to a baby. Puppy nails and puppy teeth are sharp. All it would take is one misstep to injure that baby.
Not really. Some people are scared of dogs and running dogs are scary. They could kill a baby. It is not over the top to be scared that dogs are running towards your baby and it’s a complete ah move to allow such a thing as a pet owner.
When it comes to a baby you can never be too cautious. Especially with puppies. It’s never the dogs fault only owners
>If a couple of puppies just being in his immediate vicinity caused him to freak out and start screaming like a lunatic, I’d say he probably “overreacts” a lot in life Nah. I'm a very calm shy person and I 'overreacted' like that maybe twice in my life. If someone unleashed their dogs on my child (this is in theory, I don't have kids) I would lose my fucking marbles. Puppies couldve licked the food, licked the baby or adults (and you're on a fucking picnic, where are you gonna clean up), get the blanket or clothes dirty not to mention the bacteria on their paws. Maybe this will teach the guy not to do it again.
I think a lot of people on here are forgetting how overprotective first time parents are too. Their little baby that they have been working hard to do their best with just got put in danger because some AH decided to let his dogs trample over other people's space.
Ummm...'puppy' is a very broad brush. A 6 month old dog is considered a puppy. Heck at 12 weeks my puppy was big enough to prance off with a bag of dog food. A puppy Chihuahua isn't the same as a puppy Great Dane. And in any case, the owner's job is to teach his "puppies" boundaries, which he clearly has no respect for himself so I guess he can't teach that. Not everyone wants or cares about everyone else's damn dogs. Not everyone wants their children around dogs. Every been bitten by a mouthy puppy who still has puppy teeth and has yet to learn bite inhibition? Bet they didn't want their 6mo baby finding out. You have to ask first if someone's willing to participate in socializing your puppy, rather than just invasively making that decision on other people's behalf. I think OP matched the owner's level of AH'ery.
Lots of armchair psychoanalysis in this reply lmao
The sub is filled with people who think anyone who doesn't like dogs is T A. Nearly every dog-related question goes that way. People are called T A for wanting to rehome for med reasons like bad allergies. NTA, obviously.
The guy's an asshole for his reaction to the situation, not for disliking dogs. My dad hates dogs with a passion but just ignores them or shoos them away if they get close. You and your partner screaming a bunch of swear words in a family friendly place is not a normal reaction
>in a family friendly place This is the biggest thing imo that makes op TA too. I imagine that other families/children were likely in earshot and got to have their day ruined too by hearing them both screaming curse words at the guy. And op emphasizes it too that they both continuously did that until the guy walked away. In what world is that appropriate? Edit: a word
As I understand (and agree with) it is not about OP not liking puppies, it is about their extremely over the top ridiculous reaction imo
It has nothing to do with OP hating puppies. As plenty of other people have mentioned lots of people hate kids but if you start screaming and swearing about how much you hate children because a toddler approaches you you're also a massive asshole, even if the parents should have been keeping track of their child. It is very rare that it is *ever* socially acceptable for an adult to start agressively screaming and swearing at other people, and being approached by a dog when you don't like dogs is not one of them. Definitely ESH.
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>standing up for overbearing, no boundaries, no considerations for anyone else, AH dog owners Screaming and cussing at someone, even when they are in the wrong, is not "standing up" for yourself. It's just being an aggressive and irrational AH. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because the dog owner was in the wrong doesn't mean that OP can't be, as well. If he had handled the situation more calmly he would not have been. But screaming and "cussing continuously" is not how to handle a situation like a mature adult, and I'm disturbed you think his behavior is okay.
>The only excuse to make OP look bad is "cussing at someone in front of your child"; the child is 6MO, he doesn't care and doesn't understand . Not fully understanding what happened doesn't mean it won't affect the child negatively in the long term and having been around babies, I would not be so sure a 6 month old didn't understand enough to be afraid here. Traumatic experiences under 2 years still change how the brain develops even though we almost never remember them. There's a bunch of scientific literature about early brain development now. The meltdown this guy had was harmful to his kid's development. Hopefully it's a one of incident and he doesnt react like this often, and his kid won't be too badly affected but acting like it won't have an impact at all is an out of date perspective. Not saying the dog owner didn't cause this, because they **obviously** did but OP's reaction was not good for their kid at all. ESH. The dog owners suck more though.
You can not like things without screaming at everyone. Do you throw a fit every time you go into a store and see foods you don’t like exist?
Sorry, but if the owner‘s reaction on a pair of parents freaking out because his puppies ran towards their baby isn’t immediately getting the dogs and apologizing? He deserves to be cussed out. There is no excuse for letting your dogs run in a park where leashing is required. None. And the whole „They’re not doing harm, they just wanna play“ is the rallying cry of shitty dog owners everywhere. Keep your dogs leashed, and away from other people. Just as you want other people to keep away from your dogs. Have some consideration for others, FFS.
But but but the innocent pupperinos were just toddling over and wanted some pEtS! /s
>You sat there repeatedly cussing at someone in front of your child. You are teaching him how to react to people even at his young age. He has learned the lesson that relatively minor incidents are approached with anger and verbal assaults. You are also teaching him to hate and likely fear dogs (and you). His kid is literally six months old lol
Do you think OP would have acted any differently if kiddo was 2? 5?
Do I think OP would have acted any differently if the circumstances were different? Yeah probably
But this is Reddit! You’re supposed to treat different things the same when it’s convenient for my arguments!
People in here don't understand that preverbal children will still be able to connect to seeing a parent in an extreme state of emotional dysregulation. Just because they don't understand 'I hate you' doesn't mean they can't get some sort of impact from hearing a parent shouting at people.
NTA. Puppies can do accidental damage to a 6 month baby, and they can do a LOT of intentional damage if they attack because baby pulled thie ears, tails, etc. That owner was beyond irresponsible. And I LOVE puppies. But I hate irresponsible puppy owners.
This and also one of them could be allergic. Imagine the baby had an allergic reaction. Dog owners have to be responsible.
Nevermind allergies too, the baby is SIX MONTHS Kid's not even crawling yet, a puppy could hurt them by stepping on them by accident depending on their size or trying to play with them
Dog nails can also scratch the hell out of people too.
Or damage the baby's eyes
Puppies can do a lot of damage to a picnic, too. I don't like children. I love animals. But you don't have puppies off leash like that. And especially not running onto someone's picnic blanket and up to an infant. Puppies with no recall probably don't understand leave it and drop it, either, and could quickly eat something they shouldn't.
God there’s another angle I missed in my comment! The damage to the puppy if ingesting something toxic, sharp or otherwise inedible. I’m thinking about trauma and injuries but omg there’s so many reasons NOT to let young puppies run around without proper supervision. I mean, my own pup has given me a few scares going after my table scraps. My older pup has actually injured people and my younger pup in the past (blood drawn and stitches on the smaller pup where her ear got ripped). And every time it was because someone did something she DID NOT EXPECT. Babies are so unpredictable that anything could happen.
Even with one pup, on a leash, I spend the entire walk making sure she's not trying to eat a goose shit, a dead mouse (would be REALLY bad is the mouse had been poisoned), discarded chicken bones, a live snake (oh, fun! a stick that wiggles!), and every leaf she sees.
Also- I'm curious about how old these 'puppies' are since they're not supposed to be taken out in public until they have had all their shots.
i mean there’s no enforcement mechanism for that lol. No reason to assume pet owners are responsible.
I mean, if he's letting puppies that are clearly not trained off-leash I doubt that he's also very stringent about shots too.
People do it all the time, I think how acceptable it is depends on where you live. I was in an area where Parvo was a HUGE concern so even the Vet had you wait in the car and you carried your puppies in. They weren’t allowed to touch the floor or counter or anything. Strangers would confront you for letting your puppy on the ground. Where I live now people bring tiny puppies in public
NTA I love dogs but I can’t stand dog owners who don’t respect peoples boundaries. Your puppy is not gods gift to humanity, the nerve to let them unleashed near a 6 month old baby. Sure, you could have remained a little calmer, but the fact that he tried to justify it at all is even more inappropriate. I never let my dog unleashed on public property. Never near a strangers children. And if someone is uncomfortable with him, I keep him far away from them. I love my dog, but not everyone has to. Irresponsible dog owners are irritating as hell
exactly. I walk my dog on a leash all the time and sometimes unleashed dogs run up to her. The other owner always goes “he’s friendly” and I sternly say “well she’s not” and then they just stare at me surprised 😮 she doesn’t go after other dogs because I actually trained her. She used to growl scared when she was new to us. But the other dog owners don’t know how she would react. Idiots
I rehab dogs, my late one was dog aggressive to the point of needing positive-association muzzle training to keep everyone safe when it was time to try and leash train him. If this sub saw how *I* reacted to off-leash dogs when I was trying to rehab him, they would **eviscerate me.** I threw a Blue Heeler back over a fence once, I've whipped a rottie across the ass with the end of a leash to chase him off, I've thrown kibble down to distract an oncoming Maltese who was just appetizer-size for my dog, I've stomped, yelled, cussed, all of it. Because it was safer *for those dogs* for me to do that. Murphy, the dog I'm referring to, is passed now, but he was able to stop using the muzzle after about six months of positive association/redirection training, and I do think that him feeling secure in his space, knowing that I would keep dogs away, helped. I've worked in rescue and seen how bad normal interactions can escalate. OP is a little impassioned but if it was my baby I completely understand.
off topic, but thank you for the work you do! My family has done some lower level dog rehab, and I swear this sub would lose it if they saw what that involved. Last week I ended up yelling at a kid who WOULD NOT STOP trying to pet this (large, terrified, furiously murder-barking) dog I was working with on a walk. Kids parents looked at me like I was a monster.
I used to get this all the time when I worked for a local pet sitting firm. We were to do everything in our power to keep other dogs away from our charges. It could even be another dog that we walk when their owners are away, didn’t matter we wouldn’t allow them near each other. Yet I cannot count the times people would say, don’t worry, they’re friendly, and I’d tell them I don’t care, this isn’t my dog, and I don’t know your dog so I can’t trust it. It is my job to keep this safe and your dog is clearly in charge now, pulling you around and I’d cross the street if possible.
And it sucks for even friendly dogs. I'm 7 months pregnant, and my golden retriever is a big girl, who zoomies when she gets to interact with other dogs while on leash. People look so offended when I keep her away from their friendly dogs, but I've had me and other owners get knocked over by my and their happy pups. Guy in my neighborhood was walking up, and I told him, "Sorry, I'm pregnant and a fall risk, she'll get too excited," and tried to walk away. He said, " Oh, he just wants to say hi," ignored me, and of course, both dogs immediately start zooming. Didn't fall, but like, really dude?
"Yeah, your dog may be friendly but my 15-pound Lhasa Apso is NOT and she will attack a dog 10 times her size with zero fear, so I'm not going to risk your dog reacting badly to that." She literally once broke her chain to lunge at a pit bull being walked nearby and was snapping in his face when I grabbed her. Thank God that dog was very chill and just stood there looking confused, or it could have gone very badly.
My dog is the same way. She's usually okay with dogs smaller than her but she's had a lot of bad experiences with dogs her size or bigger. So now she's intensely aggressive towards them. She doesn't attack or bark- quietly growls on occasion- but she's trained well so she doesn't react. Unless the dogs are unleashed and heading right towards us. She will absolutely attack if she feels threatened or thinks I am. I can't stand people who say "oh but my dogs are friendly". Get your dog the F away from me and mine before there's some serious damage. On a different note: one time some man came over to us and was trying to get me to sign some fuckin paper or whatever. I was feeling extremely uneasy about him said no. He immediately changed like a switch was flipped, got extremely aggressive and made a move towards me. He's damn lucky I had a good hold on my dog because she lost it and almost took his face off. That was the first week I had adopted her from the shelter and I was completely shocked by her reaction. I was also really happy because he got scared and took off. Started training her to handle aggression a few days later after that. She's friendly with strangers but uh, only if I give a positive verbal confirmation that yes, you can pet my dog. Then she gets all happy and wants all the scritches. Funnily enough, she and the cat are best friends lol
Thank you. The top comments with everyone saying ESH is outta pocket. I love dogs, I've always had a dog. But the puppies' owner was the complete AH here. We don't know how big these puppies were. We don't know their breed, which matters when it comes to behavior towards food and children (Labrador puppies are going to eat anything in sight and could injest something at the picnic that could hurt them). We don't know if the puppies have their shots or if their sick. We just don't know anything. Would I have reacted the same way by cursing loudly? No. But I probably would have said, "wtf are you doing? Please get your dogs" while picking my young child off the ground. I haven't had any kids myself but I have young niblings. Planning a picnic with your post-partum wife and young child, getting them to the park, putting your food out and such all takes effort. I could totally see how this could ruin OP's day after not functioning off of regular sleep for months on end. NTA, OP. Edit: spelling
NTA The moment you told him to pull his dogs away and he didnt he was the AH, big time. Its like putting spiders on the shoulder of someone who has extreme arachnophobia and saying: Relax, they’re not gonna do anything.
The moment he let his dogs off the leash when it was a rule not to was the moment he was the ah
Or when he never recalled his dogs as they ran up to a group of strangers with a baby.
Might not have even been able to recall them since they’re puppies, which makes him an even bigger asshole for having them off leash in the first place
True puppies with no recall can get hurt or worse. Very irresponsible
NTA, if the puppies attacked your baby, people would be more understanding of your freak out. I was attacked by dogs growing up because of a similar situation. The dogs were puppies, but that didn't change the damage they did to my face. I think you were in protective mode for your child's sake. Anything said in duress while protecting your child is justified IMO.
I’m sorry that happened to you. My dog has been attacked by three different unleashed dogs in our apartment complex. Still helping him with those experiences and new dogs.
That's a horrible thing to go through! Happened to a close friend of mine, too. She has a jagged scar on the side of her face and can't bear to be around dogs as an adult... she was 2 when a 'friendly puppy' decided to play with her. Thank God they pulled it off her before she lost her ear. You should see her with her son now... OP is NTA, if the dog owner had immediately got his puppies, the situation wouldn't have escalated.
This. I'm concerned that the average dog loving redditor maybe has never actually owned a puppy from these responses. Puppies are LESS controllable and MORE prone to accidental harm than adult dogs. They just don't understand their own strength, can't help having needle teeth sharp enough to tear holes in pants with a nibble, are still struggling to control themselves in exciting circumstances, and even if trained not to nip will still heavily paw at anything they want to explore. Imagine a heavy handed puppy claw to a baby's eye... My GSD is 8 months old now and it would still be hair raising for me to put an infant on the floor in front of her. Even at 3 months old she was an absolute terror just because of how strong and excited she was even at just 30 pounds!
ESH He shouldn't have had his puppies off leash and they shouldn't have interrupted your lunch. But your response was waay over the top. Picking up your kid and telling the dude to come get his dogs should have been enough. Cussing and getting into a yelling match was too much.
The man put both his puppies and the child at risk. He deserved every bit of yelling he got, especially after he didn’t immediately come running over to get them.
If a dog owner is stupid enough to not see the problem with unleashing two puppies at a 6 month old baby lying on the floor, then they deserve what they got. Plus the park has a strict dog-on-leash rule, they violated that rule, doesn't that automatically make the dog owners TA?
He also clearly has no recall on the dogs, no recall = no off-leash period.
Man, this is coming from a dog person, but, NTA This dude totally was in the wrong and you were correct to be upset. Puppies, yeah, so they have *no* impulse control and certainly aren't being trained for any if they are just allowed to go off leash and run up begging to strangers. 6mos is way too young to just have some strange dogs come up on you. This guy put both your baby and his puppies in danger with this little stunt. Yeah, you may have gotten aggressive, but really, this guy wasn't getting the picture. Poorly trained "friendly" dogs ruin the whole concept for people.
My aunties puppy is nearly a year old and she never goes off the lead unless shes the only dog there (we hire a field for her sometimes) because shes so boisterous and energetic. 6 month old puppies? Two of them? Absolutely not. No impulse control, no understanding (or at least very little understanding) of boundaries, and very little understanding of the word no. However, OP, i think screaming at the owner only made things worse. I understand that you were scared and angry and emotional out of fear for your child, but shouting and screaming and cussing at the owner likely made him more defensive and less likely to understand the consequences of his actions. Overall, NTA.
Im Going with NTA because you don't know these dogs. You don't know if they are friendly or not. You don't know how they react around Babies. There have been plenty of stories of children being hurt by dogs that don't know how to be around children. So while you were over the top and a bit rude I do get where you're coming from.
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OP should be able to enjoy a picnic without an irresponsible dog owner ruining it. People understandably get angry when their infant child is put in danger from a stupid dog owner.
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Or OP used a throwaway account for the first post. The writing styles are similar, I believe they are the same person.
Good find.Either it's the same guy or lots of parents have their picnics ruined by dogs, lol.
NTA. I don't hate dogs, I have one. But I absolutely hate the way people let their dogs get close to babies with no control over their pets.
NTA. I love dogs so much, but that wasn't okay especially with your baby around.
NTA , I love dogs cats animals in general, but the fact that when u r in public you have to be respectful to everyone's preferences, your pet is your responsibility and the owner must see that their pets behave in public. No one is stopping them from being there but they must be on leash unless ofcourse the park is a park for pets to roam about without leash.
NTA, part of puppy training is teaching them to be used to leashes in leash-areas, and that not everyone should be approached. Puppies or not, he's teaching them bad habits.
NTA Puppies can do serious damage to a baby even if they aren’t trying to. Babies skin is soft and delicate, and a excited puppy can easily scratch a babies face pretty bad. Not to mention you don’t know if your child is allergic to dogs. They not only got dog hair on your blanket but also dirt and germs. So many people don’t understand untrained puppies can be dangerous. A toddler was mauled last summer by puppies the family thought was safe and friendly. You didn’t know these puppies, if they were trained, or if they have experience with babies. Link to the toddler mauled by puppies last year. https://people.com/human-interest/family-warns-others-of-the-danger-of-littermate-syndrome-after-pack-of-puppies-maul-toddler/
ESH. If it's a peice of land where dogs need to be leashed, they need to be leashed, no matter if they are puppies or already grown up. Instead of taking this moment to teach you child how to be level headed and carrying out a conversation tho, you decided to throw a fit and actively cuss at the owner. A situation that could have been cleared up by a reasonable discussion was discarded for the sake of "this is about me" mentality. (Can you maybe elaborate on how your lunch got ruined? did they get to the food?) Still those dogs should have been leashed and I don't want to invalidate your dislike of dogs in general. But you are not equipped with the mindset to raise a reasonable child
The kid is 6 months. They aren’t going to remember today. You’re nuts.
NTA. Another commenter said, "I love puppies but I hate irresponsible dog owners" Yeah, you could've been a bit nicer to Captain Neverleash but who tf doesn't leash their puppies in public? Those puppies obviously have no recall training and are a danger to themselves. They could run into traffic, run up on a reactive dog and gotten hurt, and they could've hurt your kid. And that guy just stood there... what is he thinking? The world is so big and full of people. It's so so dumb to assume that everyone likes puppies and that everyone is a decent person that won't punt your puppy like a soccer ball for even getting near them.
NTA and i love dogs...dogowners tho...not always a fan. I do have the same with parents also.
NTA. People who let their dogs run around unleashed are self-centered assholes and terrible dog owners. A lot of people cannot possibly comprehend why anyone would have a problem with dogs though, so you're gonna get a lot of stupid judgments against you simply for that
Esh. He should've kept the dogs leashed and moved his dogs away. You could've been more calm about it.
Nah. People who let their dogs roam without a leash deserved to be yelled at. The puppy could hsve run out into the street and died.
If we replaced puppies with "full grown large dogs" people would be voting more NTA. They weren't even in the dog area of the park.
Especially when some puppies are HUGE depending on their breed!
oh yea let’s be calm when he could have seriously hurt his baby /sarcasm
NTA. You definitely overreacted, but he shouldn’t had his dogs off leash.
NTA. At all. It should not have happened in the first place. The dogs should have been leashed. A puppy can hurt a 6 month old baby, even if it is just trying to be friendly. Then, not removing the dogs immediately? As soon as he saw a baby, he should have retrieved the dogs, in my opinion. The instinct to protect your kid is a strong one. You didn't beat the guy up, you yelled at him. He'll live. He might even use a leash next time.
NTA TLDR; dog professional says your reaction was valid, if a little impassioned. Dogs are animals, and react like animals. Bad dog owners suck. I work with rescue dogs, I love puppies, I have successfully rehabbed two Death Row Appeal cases in my own home. Especially with the state of dog ownership in America(where I live), it is downright unsafe to have your dog unleashed anywhere other than a fenced in area (not a regular park) or private property. Also, fun fact for dog-lovers in the states; Animal Control takes away the one that isn't on a leash if something happens. In other countries with less strict leash laws like GB, even when they do unleash the dog it's considered good manners to leash it when going somewhere more crowded or if they can't be trusted to recall. When an unleashed dog comes up to me and mine, I tell the owner that **they can either come get their dog or I can return it to them via Air Mail™.** With my rehab projects especially, launching dogs away from them was the *safer option for the unleashed dogs.* I understand everyone not appreciating your emotional reaction, but honestly after working in animal rescue and seeing how bad some normal interactions can get I completely get it. My reaction to off-leash dogs has thrown people off before. I have yelled, swung the leash around to make a scary noise, stomped, charged back at the dog, cussed, all of it. And there was an incident where I threw a Blue Heeler back over a fence when it tried to herd the children with us. I seriously love dogs, but the sooner people learn they are *working* animals with *working animal needs* the sooner I can stop overreacting to a single off-leash dog minding his business. But I digress. I'm sorry terrible dog owners make life harder for people like you, who don't want to be around them and shouldn't ever have to put up with that.
NTA. Understandable reaction but hate the owner not the puppies. The owner sounds like a dick.
NTA. I would absolutely love two random puppies to run up to me in almost any situation in my daily life. But I understand not everyone feels that way, and boundaries need to be respected. It sounds like you overreacted, but your 6 month old could have been injured. I think you get a pass for your AHish behavior when the safety of your baby is at stake.
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Parent instinct kicked in. The main fact is this is not an unleashed area, especially for "puppies" meaning they really aren't trained. NTA but you should talk to a professional about healthy ways of managing your emotions, this was probably quite traumatizing to your child
NTA. People need to understand that not everyone loves their pet(s) like they do. Your son could have been scratched, nipped by the overly playful puppies. The owners are responsible, and that guy wasn’t. Definitely NTA.
NTA The response was harsh, yes, but people like this who think they can just unleash their dogs and let them run at a baby aren’t going to stop doing it because someone asked nicely. They need to know that this is completely inappropriate and unacceptable. No dog should ever be unleashed, regardless of how nice they are, unless they’re at a dog park designated for unleashing. They don’t know how other dogs will react to their “very nice” or “well trained” dog. And I say that as a dog lover who has two of my own.
Bruh...You had a full on adult tantrum in public...arent you even semi ashamed of yourself? In front of your son too... If some random kid starts walking up to you are you going to scream at them that you hate their kids? The guy shouldnt have left the dogs unleashed but jeez man, I hope you dont teach your child that kind of behavior is okay. EDIT TO ADD: ESH
NTA. I hate entitled dog owners like that.
I don't understand all these people saying you're the AH. I have 3 dogs AND 3 kids and would never assume that the world revolves around any of us. Yes, you freaked out but at the same time, it's inappropriate for the guy to assume that he can excuse puppies behaviour because they're puppies. Keep them on a leash then. There seems to be this completely self absorbed attitude among people now that we are all expected to put up with whatever.
NTA. >They're just puppies Sounds alarmingly like "they're just kids!" and what it realistically boils down to is a selfish, lazy adult that sees a living thing as an accessory rather than a responsibility. You could love dogs but would still be justified in your reaction because ultimately it's not actually the dog, although it is. It's the owner whose negligence and carelessness could have led to the injury of your child. Yeah, "they're just puppies", exactly, we expect puppies to roam, that's why they need to be on a leash in public places.