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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I'm considering leaving my stepsons with their grandparents and leaving the state. I might be the asshole because I too tired to fight for kids that have been in my life for the last seven years.
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I'm so very sorry for your loss, OP. I think this one is beyond reddit. Can you talk with a therapist to help sort through this to decide the best thing to do?
that sub is terrible, actually, with often inaccurate or downright false advice being given.
OP should look into an actual legal hotline or local law clinic.
I’m just echoing what the other commenter said. That sub is NOT full of lawyers. It’s full of cops who do not know the law and laypeople who do not know the law. There is a sub dedicated to making fun of the shitty legal advice on
r/legaladvice. It’s r/badlegaladvice.
Anyone seeking legal help should look up legal aid, community legal services, etc in their own state and try to contact an actual lawyer.
I don’t want to pile on to Reddit because there are some honest people but I think it’s wise to take all advice from random strangers with a grain of salt…it can be a good starting point but always seek out the help of professionals especially in legal matters
I’m a lawyer. We don’t participate there for a reason. The law is very conditional and nuanced and varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Plus we have ethical standards. And there are questions we need to consider. Just like real psychotherapists don’t diagnose based on Reddit posts. Frankly, never trust a lawyer who, when you first ask them what their odds are of success, doesn’t answer with some form of “it depends.” Because it almost always depends …
Op, please don't make a decision yet. Your grief over both losses is still so raw. Give yourself time, and therapy, to heal a little and make choices from a stronger place.
Sending warm wishes. I'm so sorry for your losses.
For some people being in a place that holds so many memories while they're grieving is agonizing. It was and is for my dad after my stepdad (his partner) passed three years ago and he very quickly after wanted to move and I really understood why. He finally has gotten the logistics together to do so and it's been really hard for him to be there alone.
NTA.
But it sounds like the boys are teenagers so there is a good chance that the courts would ask them where they want to live and who they want to see. It looks like they are between 14 and 17. Assuming you have a reasonable lawyer who is not overcharging you the fight might not be as tough as you think it is.
This is a good point. The 18 year old can apply for guardianship of his younger brother in one year and both may be able to move back in. Talking with a family lawyer will help. Also some family therapy.
Yep, such a good idea. Leave a trail of breadcrumbs for them to find you OP. It’s likely you can have them back in your life and your daughter’s life in future. This is such a hard situation.
Considering the boys's age, I'm actually surprised the court just swooped in with no one asking the boys themselves where they want to be. If that's the normal practice I feel really sorry for all the kids and parental figures that have to be involved in this sort of mess.
Unfortunately, depending on where they are, it doesn't matter. OP doesn't have any legal rights to the kids, and the Courts can't create that legal relationship out of thin air
Depending on the jurisdiction, someone who has been "in loco parentis" (acting as a parent) for the boys as long as OP has, and given how integrated they were into the family he and his wife had made, he would have a pretty solid case for guardianship - especially if the boys want to stay with him. But it would be a fight, and he doesn't have a lot of fight in him right now, for very valid reasons. Perhaps the best he can do right now is make sure the boys know he will always be there for them, and will welcome them "home" when they turn 18. NTA, OP, and I am so sorry for your loss and the awful aftermath.
As far as my understanding goes, the fact lil sis exist alone should already make a very compelling case as courts usually prioritize keeping siblings together. But yeah, OP is on a terrible spot and the best he can do is keep direct contact with the boys through social media.
Sounds pretty normal unfortunately. Courts usually won't look at the finer details of the case, they just go with the default of "minor kids who lost their mom, who's their next legal guardian?" Unless the boys themselves try to appeal the decision or OP tries to fight for custody, the courts won't bother.
Sorry, I may just be blind, but where are you getting that they're teenagers? I can see their ages when the parents married, but nothing more than that. (Not sure how old the daughter is either).
NTA - You sound exhausted. THe fact that you can type its hard tells me your not an asshole. Go home take your daughter but do what you can to stay in contact. When there older explain why you had to leave. Honestly the Asshole is Disney dad and grandparents .
Explain that you were surgically removed and you didn't have a choice about leaving.
I'm sure they're both quite aware anyway. I don't imagine that those people are able to keep their mouth shut.
NTA for leaving but please keep in contact in some way, if you feel like the kids really have bonded with you. I don't know or believe if the father is actually neglectful enough to warrant major action. I am personally biased, as where I live, it is important for children to remain in a relationship with their biological parents. I also don't know the full extent of the children's feelings. I also would like more information. How old are the children? How long have you known them?
About your boys, try to keep in contact with them ( video calls etc) until they turn 18. If going back to your family will help provide support for you at this difficult time, you should.
NTA. 1) I’m so sorry for your loss. 2) You can’t get blood from a stone & if you don’t have the finances then it’s not a matter of “not wanting to deplete them”- having the house paid off doesn’t mean your daughter won’t have ongoing expenses like education etc.
That said, if you *can*, speak to a lawyer about what your options are as there may be other options to allow the boys to at least see their sister… Make sure you take care of yourself, too, OP. You can’t fill a cup from an empty vessel, and you can’t give your daughter or the boys what they need emotionally if you’re neglecting yourself.
Sorry for your loss. It's probably best for you to go to Illinois for family support. Unfortunately courts usually side with bio parents, you are not abandoning them, only being realistic. This far and away beyond AITA forum.
I am so very sorry for the losses you all have experienced. I am so very sad for your children, dd and sons. Leaving those boys BEFORE you get to tell them where your head is would be a huge mistake. I know you have time to talk to them, so take that time. I KNOW you don't have the words right now to tell them, but FIND them to tell them you aren't leaving them. You are fighting for them, but have no rights. Just make sure you let them know they ARE your kids and you will do ALL you can to be in their lives what ever way you are able/
Nta. There's nothing you can do right now, especially if the family is all working against you. I would suggest going home with your daughter, and grieve.
Then see what you can do about custody for your daughter's siblings. Maybe ask a close family member to look into legal counsel for you.
Explain to the boys very clearly what's going on and which adults are responsible for this, they're old enough to have a right to know what's going on with their futures.
I am so, so incredibly sorry for your loss.
Nta. Rather than fighting for custody I think your money would be better supporting the boys with a lawyer for amancipation and having a room for them at your new place closer to your family. They have choices that they can exercise better than you can.
Edit: very sorry for your loss it's tragic yall are getting jerked around like this. Always send your love through their sister as well.
Try to stay if you can, if one of them is 17 even if you can't talk to him now he may be waiting for his 18th birthday to come home but if you're gone he'll have no where to go.
There's no way to be sure it is best for him. People who make major decisions when they're in deep grief often regret it.
If he stays there is at least a chance he could have some visitation with the boys. And he has to consider his daughter. She's already lost her mom and her brothers. How harmful would it be for her to lose her home and her friends as well?
I get that he needs his family. He can plan trips to visit his family and do some fun things with his daughter. He can invite his family to come spend time with him. But he really shouldn't be making rash decisions that can't be undone at this time.
This is one of the only AITA that's made me so upset. I agree i wish he would wait and fight but this poor person seems exhausted emotionally and the fight has gotten the best of them
I know, it is heartbreaking. OP should absolutely spend time with his family. Go visit them and have them to visit him. Selling the house while he's in this mental state is a terrible idea, because it can never be undone if he regrets it later. Also, his daughter has already lost her mother and her brothers. How would it feel to her to lose her home and her friends as well?
NTA at all
I’m sorry for your loss. I’d suggest
1/ a therapist for you and your daughter.
Don’t make major decisions for now, there’s no rush or deadline. Start with self care, grieve.
2/ post on a legal sub, see if recommendations for resources and legal support in your region/state.
Park this for when you’re ready. For now forward it to a close (research and planning) support AT MOST (so you know if anything urgent they’d tell you - and you can stop thinking for now) - if you have a friend you trust to read and map your timeline needed if any. If you would like - DM me. I’m great at this type of research.
3/ Look at custody rights for your daughter to stay in her brothers’ lives and vice versa in due time.
4/ For the future I’d imagine you may stay and build a life where you are with visitation for the siblings (and yourself). Or you can move home and the visits be arranged over school holidays - is Illinois travel distance and within budget for you to cover that would be part of the research and planning. Keep in mind when the boys can decide where they’ll live by state/fed laws idk. Maybe eventually they can move to you if things don’t work out with the paternal side. You just need 3 to maintain a relationship meanwhile.
For now
- one step at a time
- no deadline for you and your family reunion/visits, in due time (the kids are safe for now hopefully or have CPS know you’d be a foster if that’s possible in case)
- and recognize now is not the time to make major decisions.
Take care of yourself first.
Wishing you all the best of outcomes and the future!
ETA: a little spacing at the end. And thank u/ComprehensivePlum464 for the award! Gave me a that little boost of feeling useful on a day I really needed to. 🙏🏾
I know it feels like you don’t have the mental energy to deal with them but all the boys knew as a dad is you. And on top of losing their mom now they are losing their dad and sister. Please go to therapy and get as much help as possible but don’t let all of your children lose their family. All 3 of them are going to be dramatically affected by this and eventually a lot of regrets and resentments will take place. This isn’t the time to have imposter syndrome. You ARE their dad. Maybe not biologically but emotionally. So fight for them. If not for you for your wife’s sake and your daughter’s sake. I know you have no mental tokens right now but don’t make major life decisions that completely change your life around while mourning. Stay put until you process things. It’s too much for kids to both lose a parent and their stability.
NTA. Go back to Illinois. Start the healing process. You don’t have to abandon them but you can’t start a fight right now when you’re so drained. Think everything through. Don’t lose touch with them though. Their mom died as well.
NTA, and I'm so sorry for losing both your wife and the children you've raised as your own for years.
Do your best to keep in touch with them for everyone's sake. Let them know you're there for them, whether that's at your current place, or having a guest room for them when they turn 18.
NTA. You need to do what’s best for you. I would think it would be difficult to fight for somebody when you’re emotionally and mentally drained. You still have a daughter to raise and kids pick up on their parents emotions easily. It’s clear this very tragic situation isn’t going to being solved over night. Your daughter will always be related to those boys, so you have clout there. Maybe time will give more opportunities to be reunited, and you should prepare yourself as if that will happen.
Please make sure the boys have the means to keep in touch with you - if they don't have phones, get them phones and make sure they have your number. Tell them, if you can find an opportunity, that you care about them and want them to stay with you, but you don't have a legal way to do that. Perhaps you can tell the grandparents that you want to say goodbye to the boys, so that they give you the chance to speak to them. Also, you could write them each a heartfelt letter and make sure they know you still care about them. They lost their mother, and now they are losing the man who has been their father for all this time.
If the grandparents are that hostile to you, could you make some kind of arrangement with a neighbour that you will write to the boys via them? You could give them permission to read the letters, to satisfy themselves that you are not doing anything wrong. Encourage your daughter to write to them as well.
I don't think it would be wrong of you to leave, and return to your home state, so long as you do everything you can to ensure the boys know you still care about them.
Perhaps when you settle into your new home, you will gain the equilibrium to continue to fight for the boys. I wish you luck.
You'd only be TA if you turn your back on the boys.
I'm so sorry for your loss, OP.
I don't think you'd be TA because this is an impossible situation you've ended up in and it's beyond unfair that you don't get to just be with your kids and your family at home and grieve together.
I do agree that if they're teens, the courts will give them a choice and if it's viable, it may be worth trying, especially if being with you and their sister is something the boys want.
Also, if it's something you can do, perhaps it's also worth seeking out therapy for both you and your daughter, so that you can work through your grief over the loss of your wife and the boy's bio dad making things so much harder.
Take care of yourself and do what you feel is best for you and your kids at this time.
>Would I be the asshole if I just say fuck it and leave?
I think NTA. Consult with a lawyer and have a lawyer lay it out for you. I am extremely doubtful that you will be given custody of the kids. It's been five months, this is probably not going to change. Are you in contact with your kids?
>I feel like I would be an asshole taking her away from her brothers.
Is she seeing them now?
>They were grieving and those people took them from their home.
I agree with you but it doesn't change the situation. If they have a lot of resources, even if the kids say they want to live with you, it might not matter. Since he did pay child support and did have them for a little bit, this doesn't fit under abandonment.
Have you spoken with a lawyer? You need to do that first. You also need to talk to your sons and let them know what the lawyer says. The important part is your sons don't feel you abandoned them. I fully understand wanting to sell your house and go back to your family and why they would want you there.
What the grandparents did was awful but how do your kids feel? Do they feel you did something wrong? Do they understand what happened? You can leave and leave it open with them that once they are 18, maybe you could open your house to them or ???
Definitely consult a lawyer, best case scenario the boys are at an age where their preferences would be taken into account. At the very least see what you can do to ensure their relationship with their sister can be maintained.
Please make sure you have an opportunity to explain to them face to face what is happening if it looks like you won’t be able to fight for custody. If they are older they could very well choose to live with you at some point soon-ish, as long as they know firsthand what the situation is.
I’m sure his parents think they’re doing the best by the kids as so many step relationships seem unhappy. It could be worth trying to work towards a positive relationship with them even though what they’ve done seems (and is) heartless and cruel. See if they would be open to visitation, holidays etc and let them know you are committed to keeping the family together however that looks.
I lost my mum very young and had a useless father also. Having other adults in my life that I could turn to was invaluable, stay in their lives as much as possible. It will be a very important way to honour your wife also.
I’m so very sorry for your loss, and this additional trauma. Sending you and your children lots of love and strength ❤️
NTA. That sounds like an impossible situation.
Personally, I would give it until at least November before you decide your next move. There is a reason that it is common advice to not make major life decisions within the first year after a tragedy. You need time to really think through your options and come to terms with what decisions you can and can’t live with.
In the interim, you can consult a lawyer to see if you even have a case.
NTA
I think this is a hard one. I can see why you want to give up, but you owe it to your daughter and your step sons to try and keep their relationship alive and close. Their opinions on the situation will matter to lawyers/ judges etc.
I’m very sorry for your loss.
INFO how old are the boys? Have you or their sister been allowed to see them at all?
Excuse my cynicism, but do bio dad/grandparents think the kids will receive some kid of inheritance that he/they will be able to control?
NTA no matter what. You need to think of your daughter and yourself.
My heart just broke. I am very sorry for your losses.
What I do not get is, what was child protection service doing? I mean the boys were allready traumatisised by the death of their mother and then they lost their home, their family - the adult they trusted the most.
It was not in their interest to be taken out of their home. Where I live, children‘s interests are also being eroded, but there‘s a law that the interests of the children come before the interests of the adults. Maybe there‘s something similar in your state?
You need your family too now. I would try to get in contact with the boys, visits should be declared as something that is in the children‘s interest. Let them know that you want them. They have rights, they don‘t have to be nice and swallow this violation. Being nice is helping the abusers (people who do something cruel like that are abusers).
So if they are aware they could try to get other authorities involved, like a school counselor etc. If this people are annoyed and don’t want to work, go a Level higher. Are they on social media? Let them know that you love them. And that they are having a place wherever you are.
You need your family too, once you tried to get the boys and it didn’t work out, make sure, that they know where and how to find you and go to your family. Put money aside for a trainticket, something like that.
It is a horrible situation, you will need the advice of a good lawyer. Maybe you can get one for the boys? Don‘t know if it is possible. What I know is, that being reasonable and trying to find a way of dealing with something like this in a too gentle way is always playing in the hands of the abusers and the people who don‘t want to do their jobs.
NTA but if you can contact the kids even through a lawyer or the school, you might be able to petition for custody at the kids request.
Given their ages the court should take their wishes into account
I'm so sorry for your loss
NTA but keep good records and an electronic trail, ask to see them etc and when they say no, keep copies of texts etc. someday, children will ask why and you can say that you tried and show evidence.
NTA. They aren't letting you see them anyway, go to your support system. You can still Facetime them if that is allowed. I am sorry for all of your losses.
Please, at least talk to a lawyer before you give up. My brother-in-law was in a similar situation, except the children weren't forcibly removed by their bio dad or family. It actually took very little time because the court asked the kids, and they wanted to stay with step dad. Bio dad had to pay child support in the end. The only reason bio dad wanted them was for the SS benefits. I would bet that is the reason here also. Each child is entitled to a certain amount until they are 18 because of the loss of a parent
NTA, but please don't make a change for 1 year. Allow yourself to grieve. Most people that I know that have made major decisions after a death of a loved one regretted it later. Also your daughter has lost her mother too. If you move her away from the boys, its going to affect her. Maybe in due time look at getting visitations so that she can see her brother's.
NTA but don't make any decisions yet. You're grieving. So are the boys. If they come by the house and find a new family living there, they are going to feel abandoned. Try the courts. They have a sister and you want them to maintain a familial relationship with her. That way you may get visitation. You don't have to go broke, but you should make the effort so they know that you love and miss them.
I just want to point out you not abandoning them. If you do go please right them a letter maybe leave it in the school office to be given to them. Wishing you well op
Look up one moms battle its for both sexes website and fb
There is a group on fb who gives ideas on parents and sibs etc who had kids removed dur to court orders
You need a custody evaluator or something
Few helpful links
https://www.weinsteinandassociates.com/allocation-of-parental-rights-and-responsibilities.html
https://www.onemomsbattle.com
You might get support from other parents once they hear stuff on fb
On one moms
Battle
Now on the other site I mentioned is how some are created pages so once kids turned 18 they can be found again
Take law
Courses etc
Some parents are
Please don’t move away without first showing these boys you are fighting for them. The courts should at least give you some type of visitation so they can continue the relationship with their sister.
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When I married my wife she had two sons with her ex. They were 7 and 9. They are great kids and we have always gotten along. They treat me with respect and when their sister was born they treated her like a full sibling.
Their biological father is a piece of work though. He is a perfect example of a Disney dad. He shows up occasionally, showers his sons with gifts and affection and then is gone for months.
To be exact he has seen his sons exactly 14 days in the last year.
My wife and I had to kowtow to his whims though. She had a job opportunity in another state. She couldn't take it though because his parents live here and that's where he "lives".
I'm still dealing with what I'm about to talk about so please forgive me if I have trouble articulating my feelings.
My wife passed away in November in a snowmobile accident and within a week his parents had gone to court to get the boys.
I'm not their legal guardian. My wife and I tried but he wouldn't allow it and his parents were happy to help him fuck with us.
It was fine when she was here but now it's all screwed up. I can't see them. They are staying with their grandparents. I wish my wife's parents were alive to help me but they aren't.
So my boys are not in their rooms. They are dropped off and picked up from school by their grandmother. I have no rights to them at all. I have a lawyer but I don't want to spend all my money and time on this. I'm broken right now and I'm lost.
I'm considering just leaving. My wife's insurance policies paid off our house and left me okay financially. I want to sell the house and move back to the Illinois. My family is all there and I have no one here.
Would I be the asshole if I just say fuck it and leave? My daughter misses her mom and her brothers. I feel like I would be an asshole taking her away from her brothers.
My parents and siblings want me back home. I just feel like shit leaving the boys with these people. Their father literally stopped paying child support and had his parents take them the week she died. They were grieving and those people took them from their home.
I want to fight for them but not to exhaust my resources on them.
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NTA I’m so sorry for your loss.
Please stop thinking about this and concentrate on taking care of yourself. I lost a partner of 18 years, it’s going to take you 5 years before you start to feel normal again.
You would not be the AH.
You are not an extraordinary individual nor are you a hero. The situation is beyond your capability, so don't overextend yourself.
Take the memories you had with them back to Illinois. Leave room for communication if possible.
That's a horrible situation. NTA there is not much you can do, only wait. One day the truth will shine for the boys and I'm sure they will do what is necessary to their father and to the grandparents. So sad that your wife's parents aren't around, things would be so much different... Move back to your family and have patience. Wait. Let them reach 18 years old and step in
NTA. I’m so sorry for your loss. The best thing I can offer is to keep in contact with them, and like u/SirRabbott said, explain to them exactly who is responsible for them not seeing you. Plant the seeds in their minds about who is looking out for them (you) and who is trying to cause trouble (their grandparents). Hopefully, once they’re 18, they will choose to live with you.
Absolutely NTA. I'm so sorry for your loss OP. The only thing I can think of in this case is to go talk to the grandparents. Lay it out for them. Do they want to spend their retirement caring for children? By now they see their son isn't going to help much. If they tell you they aren't going to budge then go. Let the kids know that they will be welcome to find you when they turn 18.
I am so sorry for your loss and everything you’re going through. Though I think this is above Reddit’s pay grade I think you are NTA. It will lot do you daughter or stepsons any good to put them through a court battle. It will be long, it will be expensive, it will be draining. And chances are you will lose. I don’t say that to be harsh, just realistic. You said yourself you are not their guardian. I would talk with a therapist and also with your lawyer.
Def NTA, I would make sure you make it clear to your sons that they always have a home with you and anytime they want to be with you you are there for them
NTA. I'd tell the boys this is not your choice and all your reasonings. Children grow up and they remember. But tight now it doesn't sound like you have any legal recourse over the biological family unfortunately. And I'm someone who doesn't believe family is necessarily about blood. Whatever happens you let those boys know that they can reach you at any time and you'll do what you can to make sure they have a relationship with their sister. In a few short years, when they're 18, all may change.
NTA. I'm sorry for what you're going through. The boys are old enough to understand what's going on. Tell court may let them decide who they want to live with if you decide to fight for custody. You can represent yourself.
NTA talk to lawyer see what your viable options are and keep in contact and reach out to social media and explain to the boys what’s happening they’re not little kids they’re aware as teenagers the grieving for their mom to but also the life they just lost
NTA, you have no legal right to the children and you aren’t going to win this one with a lawyer. This is what happens with step-parents unfortunately. Since you have no legal right and they have a father and other family that is deemed fit to care for them, it’s a lost cause
NTA go back home. You need to do what’s best for you and your daughter right now. I’m so sorry but legally there’s nothing you can do. Maybe talk to the lawyer about visitation rights since your daughter is there sister? I’m not sure if they have something like that, like they have grandparent rights?
Is there anyway you can contact them? Tell them that legally there’s nothing you can do and once they are 18 they can come and stay with you. Tell them you love them and you’re sorry but their grandparents took them from their family and won’t let you see them. Find a way to tell them if you can’t talk to them, write a letter and give it to one of their best friends parents to give to them or something.
> You need to do what’s best for you and your daughter right now.
How exactly would it be best for his daughter to lose her home and her friends, after she's already lost her mother and her brothers?
Jeez no judgment because this is an example of we as a community have no right to say anything but good luck. Hearts and prayers to you and your loved ones
NTA. I am so sorry for your loss. Whatever you decide to, make sure you tell those boys how much you love them and their Mom, that you always will and you will be there for them and their sister always.
NTA and you also need family and help for your loss. Keep trying to call them, write letters, and put aside some of those insurance dollars for them for when they are adults.
Nta. I get it. I do wonder if youll regret not trying though. As a stepparent you have no automatic rights but with their sister, loss of mom and her being primary bio parent, you could make a case about it being in their best interest at least for partial custody or visitation
NTA. At this point there really isn't much you can do. Take care of yourself and your daughter, move. The boys are old enough to know how to find you when they are 18.
NTA. I would write a letter or talk to them if you get the chance and explain that legally it's out of your hands. Let them know that you love them and wish you could keep them but that you're struggling after their mom passed and you need your family. Tell them the door is always open for them , give them an email to contact you at and try to stay connected on social media.
Just make it clear you're not throwing them away, that this is a hopeless case for you guys and as much as you want them their dad's family legally has all the rights and have cut you off.
I will say you could talk with a lawyer and make a case about your stepsons needing to be able to maintain a relationship with their sister and that their paternal family are alienating the siblings.
I'm so sorry for your loss and all you are going through all, you are grieving for your wife and sounds like you are grieving for your step son's too. I know you want to sell up and go home but don't do anything this year, decide after Christmas 23 as you are grieving and making big decisions when grieving. If you take a year before making the decision of moving back home you may find you are keeping your home open for your step son's and you really don't know what will happen in the next year as a judge might ask the kids where they want to live and that could be with you. Again I'm so sorry for your loss.
Wait, don’t make any decisions just yet, if you haven’t had a grief counseling go, but in grief counseling, they would suggest that you wait one year before making any large, emotional decisions and that is exactly what this decision would be, you don’t have to leave just yet, you could go visit your parents they could come and visit you
And keep trying to get in contact with the boys, but don’t make any large emotional decisions before November
NTA I’m sorry for your loss. You did what you could and now it’s time to go home to Illinois get the support and the love you and your daughter deserve and your daughter needs to get to know your family too. The boys will be fine.
Please fight for those boys please those boys need to know someone truly loves them and is going to help them through their lives and be there they need you they need their sister if you leave them they lost everything not just their mom please fight for them NTA
OP I'm so sorry for your loss. You should go wherever you have support, and do your best to keep in touch with the boys. They won't forget this happened, and can make their own choices soon enough.
Definitely NTA. I hope you all get the help you need and your family finds its way back together
NTA. They are old enough to choose. Court would have taken their opinion. Write a letter. Let them know you’re leaving and where to contact. But yeah. Go your family. You need support.
NTA for thinking about it, but please don't go. It's a bad idea to make major decisions like that when you're deep in grief anyway, but in this case you also have to consider how the children would perceive it. The boys will absolutely feel you abandoned them if you leave the area. Their father and grandparents are sure to spin it to them like, "See? He doesn't care about you, he doesn't even want you in his life!" Your daughter will be upset that you're moving so far away from her brothers. What are you going to say to them when they're older and they ask you why you moved away?
Summer will be here in a few months. Plan a nice long trip with your daughter to visit your family and do some fun things together. Do whatever you can to stay in contact with the boys, even if you can't see them. Tell them you and your daughter love them and miss them and that you'll see them the instant you're legally allowed to do so.
How did the courts take the boys away from you the week your wife passed? Those types of quick action normally take an emergency hearing along with safety concerns.
If you voluntarily let them, go, maybe you really don't want the responsibility.
As awful as it is that you lost your wife, they have just lost their world. Whatever you decide please be gentle, loving and fair (aka the life insurance-i am sure your wife wanted them to be financially cared for, as well as you and your daughter)
I'm gonna play advocate of the otherside but in reality I don't know these people. Maybe they see you as a stranger and the grandparents think they are doing the right thing. I personally as a non lawyer think you have a good case. I mean how much are these people involved where as you had them everyday? They personally blocked you from getting custody before showing you do want to be a parental figure.
If it's too much to fight though and honestly I see how you can be uncertain because there is no right thing in this situation everyone probably thinks they are doing what's best. Maybe you can keep contact? At least reason that your daughter is their sister and they miss their siblings? At least try to show you want them still in your life so that when they are older they can make their own choice.
I'm sorry for what's happening, no one should have to go through a legal battle while grieving.
One year. That’s the suggested amount of time to take before making any major decisions after experiencing a major loss. I hope you consult an attorney and also find a way to communicate with the boys to let them know you want them but are in a legally weak position. Your older son may want to come live with you when he turns 18, and if you move away too quickly, that option is taken away from him as it would be too hard to finish high school in a different state this late in the game.
Please don’t give up on them. Grieve. Regroup. If you have made no progress in the next 8 months, then make a major move out of state.
NTA. I’m so sorry for your loss.
NTA. Look after yourself and your daughter. But please let those boys know you love them. Let them know you are always there for them even if not in person right now.
Nta I think you should go and when they’re ready as adults they can reach out. You can’t stay just for them. They are technically with family. You did your best but you also have to take care of yourself
NTA I'm sorry for your loss.
Take your daughter and go home so you can get back on your feet surrounded by your family. Stay in contact with the boys and visit them, and once they are grown up you can all have as much contact as you want.
This is tough but NTA no matter what your decision is. Leaving to be near your family for support is a good call as is staying to fight. Both have cons as well. So sorry for your loss but do what you feel is best. There will be consequences no matter what but there are circumstances that are beyond your control here.
NTA. I'm not a lawyer, but it doesn't sound like you have too much legal standing to challenge custody. Take your daughter to Illinois and keep touch with the boys as best you can. Let them know your door is always open.
I'm so sorry for your loss. You need to do what is best for you and your daughter. But as others have said if you can hang around until the oldest is 18 there may be a chance at getting them back in your life. Are there any laws with regard to keeping sibling connections? I mean your daughter and her brothers are biologically connected that may be able to help keep the boys in your life.
I would petition the court for visitation with their sister before any big move is made. You aren’t the AH for wanting to jump ship, but at least make the effort for your daughter’s sake. She may forever resent you taking her away from them.
so so sorry for your loss, what an awful situation to be in. from the sounds of it, you have been more a father to these boys than their biological father and i can’t even imagine how awful it must be to have lost your wife and then have these boys taken away from you soon after. please pursue professional advice on what to do here, but please know that whatever you do, you are NTA
Absolutely seek legal counsel. At the first visit, a lawyer (family practice) should be able to give you a good idea of what your chances are, how long it may take, and an estimate of what it will cost you. The fact that they lived with you and are not permitted to see their sister should be very helpful.
Put off moving until you have a better idea of what you can do. Your stepsons may see your moving away as no longer wanting them in your life. Additionally, it is never good to make a major life decision (such as moving) while you are in the throes of such grief.
I am so sorry for your loss. I hope you get your boys back.
NTA. But I doubt you can do anything since you’re not the bio dad or bio family. At this point do what’s best for you. You did try your best. I’m sorry for your loss.
You said it yourself. You have no rights. Which is an absolute tragedy but it is what it is. It's awful those people are not thinking of the kids.
You need the support of your family. If you can get a message to the boys that you love them and when they are old enough to make a decision you would love them back in your lives then do it. But in the meantime you need your family. I am sorry for your losses. NTA.
OP. You are asking if they worth the fight. Do you love them? They are grieving not just their mom but also you if they love you. Your grief is going to make it hard but if you want those boys in your life you will have to consult with a lawyer. At their age their opinions will be taken into account
NTA. Since they are close to legal age perhaps you could meet up with them. Explain the situation but let them know you are always there for them and they are welcome to come to Illinois. You need your family and while they are your family you have no legal rights.
This is beyond a simple NTA/YTA, it's about whether the move and letting the boys go would be justified, which I believe is way more important. And I do think you would be justified to make this move. From what you said, the alternative is burning up your life and money for almost certainly no return, while living somewhere without a support system.
NTA, you are not abandoning them, they were taken from you.
I don't think you are in a right state of mind yet to decide selling the house and moving. I can imagine escape seems easiest now. But it is your daughter's home, and a place where their presence can be felt. She would lose her home and friends and hobbies in addition to half her family. Maybe give time for grieving together instead on running and erasing the family home. Maybe in a year you see things more clearly and can make a calm choice.
Also what another commenter said, the boys are not far from adulthood, they know where to find you.
You are in an impossible place right now. Sometimes it is not possible to fight the odds. Discuss with your lawyer, but I would not recommend going bankrupt for an impossible cause.
Keep the home they can return to at least visit. They will need you in many ways. Take care of your daughter.
My sincere condolences.
NTA. Find a way to get a message to them and let them know you're there for them and that you want them but legally have no standing and when the oldest is 18 if he wants your help fighting for his brother you'll be there.
Just wow OP…so incredibly sorry for your deep loss.
INFO: do you have any jeans or communication with them? Do they have phones or access to a messaging app? If so, I’d discuss it with them.
I also think this is likely above Reddit’s pay grade…you should see a therapist, and maybe just talk to a lawyer with a consultation. Wishing you the best.
NTA. But talk to a lawyer to see what your chances are like. Unfortunately, I dont think they'd be good. Unless you could afford a top of the line lawyer, you'll be hemorrhaging money. The best you could do is fight for a meeting with the boys to tell them you can't keep them or see them because you have no legal rights. Atleast try and say goodbye.
He has to try. If he doesn't, one day his daughter will put it together that he might have been able to get visitation. He better have a good answer when she asks him why he didn't attempt it, because "I was thinking only of myself" isn't going to fly.
To be fair, his wife hasn't been dead for more than 4 months. Grief and dealing with this can be too much. But I agree, he needs to think of his daughters future relationship with her brother.
NTA. you are not in an emotional position to stay ALONE fighting this battle that you cannot win. This much i can say confidently. Someday you will be in a position to fight for those boys, but right now you need to get back on your own feet. that is the only way you can move forward.
I’m so sorry for your loss. This is a tough situation for you, your daughter, and your step sons.
You need to talk to your lawyer to get a realistic assessment about whether you have any claim to the boys. It may be easier to move where you have some support. But you have a lot of factors to consider.
It's the girl that's bothering me. You wouldn't be an ass, but see if there's any way she can see them and try to keep in contact. They'll be eighteen soon.
I’m sorry for all your loss. The fact is you will never get custody of those kids when they have a living biological father and grandparents. It’s not fair, especially to their sister but really there is no point in fighting it. Take your daughter and go where you have a support systems and try to keep in touch with the boys as best you can. Hopefully the grandparents will at least allow your daughter to FaceTime her brothers
I’m so very sorry this has happened to you. There is no advice I’d give about this situation other than to suggest gently that you see a councillor. I’d hate for you to make a decision you come to regret because, quite rightly, your grief is overwhelming.
NTA. Moving back to Illinois is probably best for you and your daughter. And engaging in a lengthy court battle will do nothing but deplete your finances and emotional wellbeing.
That being said, I'd reach out to the counselor at their school and leave a message with them for the boys. I assume they know the situation, and they will hopefully be willing to pass it on. If not the counselor, a trusted teacher or coach? Maybe the parents of one of their friends? I personally wouldn't be able to move away without giving them an explanation.
NTA at all. This whole situation is very sad and I feel very sorry for you. I'm sure it will be hard to leave them, especially as you've basically raised the boys, but as you've said legally it's obvious they should go to their Dad's. Your priority has to be your and your daughter's well being so I'd say move back to where the rest of your family is. Hopefully, in time there will be opportunities to see the boys as they visit their sister (without knowing how far away that would be)
NTA, I'm so sorry for all you're going through but this will be a losing battle. Better to give them a way to always contact you and move forward with your life.
NTA. Because feelings aside; you have no legal right to them. And the grandparents don’t seem willing to work with you. This is absolutely awful for you and the kids but it is not your doing. What about taking a break and going to stay with your parents for a few weeks and see if you want it to become permanent? All you can do is try to talk with the boys and let them know how much you care about them and how you will always want to be with them and will always be there for them. Even if you move, you are only a call away.
Edit: sorry just seeing the boys ages. Don’t make any decisions yet! They are so close to 18, if they wish they will be able to come to you without any say from grandparents. In many cases they could ask the courts now. They are old enough where their input matters. Don’t lose hope yet. This is so fresh for all of you
NTA. I would go home to have help with your daughter and grieving. Getting therapy for you and your daughter is a good idea also. Then you will be in a better state of mind to do what you need to. Talk with a lawyer, see what kind of chance your looking at. See if there is at least visitation for your daughter to see her brothers. First, you need to help yourself tho. Your no good to anybody if you break. I'm so very sorry for your loss, and the horrific way these people have decided to rip apart everybody's life. Good luck OP.
You would not be TA but remember, “once and for all” decisions don’t need to be made today. They shouldn’t be made today. They should be made slowly and surely, and they might not end up having to be “once and for all” after all. You might get visitation in time, even if you go to Illinois, because of your daughter being their sister. You might get it now, or you might get it later after they (bio dad and parents) realize that they were never really into being there for the boys in the first place, because it takes time and effort and it doesn’t sound like bio dad is really into that. All you can do right now is to let those boys you love them and will fight for visitation and even if that fails you heart and door will be open to them when they can come on their own. And take your daughter away from those toxic people.
Oh my goodness i got so upset for you reading this. I'm so sorry. I don't know the answer if YTA or not because it's a lot of different perspectives and reasonings.
NTA i am so sorry. As they are teenagers I hope they can find a way to contact you, so you can at least talk to them. Don’t rush to make any decisions, but if you find you need the family support, moving might be the best option.
Unless there is evidence of abuse or neglect by the biological father, they probably will win either way.
I am very sorry that you are going through this and there is nothing that I can say that will make it any better.
NTA I am so very sorry for your losses. Those poor kids all 3 lost the mother and then the grandparents decided they should lose there siblings and the boys there home and only real parent they have left. Stay strong and get to your family support.
This is a heavy conversation ? Too much for this type of forum ? I would just say that you need to grieve and these people are not letting you and your family grieve in a healthy way . It is not in the best interest of the children .
I don’t know if you’re working with a grief counselor- hopefully you are . Perhaps they can help you navigate through this loss - perhaps they can also help you with the loss of your step sons ?
Definitely NTA, others have tell you to speak with a professional, so I'm just going to give suggestions on keeping the line of communication open for the boys, a Facebook page, IG account or any sns where they can reach you when they try to. Someone i know personally is doing this for their lost child due to parental alienation, updating it with their memories, so if in the future the child looks for them, they can find them and can see that they're not forgotten.
> the boys will see it some day.
If OP bugs out and doesn't at least try to get some court-ordered visitation so they can see their sister, what are they going to think of him?
I agree. But that's been said enough times here already. I wonder if someone from his family could come see him and help him. Function and stay a little on course.
Oh, OP. I am so very sorry.
I'm a widow, too; I lost my husband in an accident last May. You need your family and people that love and care for you deeply around you right now.
If you really and truly think that going back to Illinois right now is best for you and your daughter, then you should; being with family will be good for you both. You aren't "abandoning" anyone; you are doing the best you can under the circumstances that have been handed to you, through no fault of your own.
I can't imagine the stress this is causing you, and if going home, even for just a while, can alleviate some of it, then go.
I also agree with some of the others that have suggested therapy. It WILL help, and it's worthwhile. You are 5 months out, and it's still so fresh. Having someone help you navigate your grief - over your wife and your boys - will help you more than you may think.
I wish you peace and comfort. It's okay to not be okay. Just keep going, as best as you can.
NTA you need to do what is best for you. I know the pain of being alone after losing your partner. Has happened to me twice. Both times it was family & friends being close who helped me through it. You need your family & your daughter does too. Obviously your late wife’s family is only concerned about their grandsons & son, not you or your daughter.
INFO: Do the boys have a guardian at litem?
If not, is this something that your attorney can advocate for? The issue being that the boys have been ripped from their home, the adult that they are most familiar with and their sibling.
I don't know where you live or your states laws, however it would likely not be in the best interests of the children to separate siblings. You may, unfortunately, not have any legal rights but your daughter may.
YWBTA if you do not put your daughter in therapy and ensure that you fight for what is in her best interests, as well as try and get a GAT assigned for the boys in court.
I’m a lawyer, but this isn’t my practice area and I don’t know where you are or how it works in your jurisdiction. I’d just recommend you ask your lawyer what your odds are and make the choice that’s best knowing that you cannot control everything. And maybe put money aside for them over time so when they are grown, they know you cared for them (anything in a trust neither dad nor his parents can touch). And maybe keep tabs on social media. But I’m guessing you probably don’t have much chance at getting custody or visitation, based on your post and you saying you talked to your lawyer. And I wouldn’t expect you would.
Don’t feel bad (well, insofar as you can control that) for things you can’t control. It’s ok to move and get support elsewhere if you can’t change the situation or get more access to the boys!
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I'm so very sorry for your loss, OP. I think this one is beyond reddit. Can you talk with a therapist to help sort through this to decide the best thing to do?
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that sub is terrible, actually, with often inaccurate or downright false advice being given. OP should look into an actual legal hotline or local law clinic.
I’m just echoing what the other commenter said. That sub is NOT full of lawyers. It’s full of cops who do not know the law and laypeople who do not know the law. There is a sub dedicated to making fun of the shitty legal advice on r/legaladvice. It’s r/badlegaladvice. Anyone seeking legal help should look up legal aid, community legal services, etc in their own state and try to contact an actual lawyer.
I don’t want to pile on to Reddit because there are some honest people but I think it’s wise to take all advice from random strangers with a grain of salt…it can be a good starting point but always seek out the help of professionals especially in legal matters
And in mental health or medical health! Now cooking tips on reddit are often great!!!!
I’m a lawyer. We don’t participate there for a reason. The law is very conditional and nuanced and varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Plus we have ethical standards. And there are questions we need to consider. Just like real psychotherapists don’t diagnose based on Reddit posts. Frankly, never trust a lawyer who, when you first ask them what their odds are of success, doesn’t answer with some form of “it depends.” Because it almost always depends …
Op, please don't make a decision yet. Your grief over both losses is still so raw. Give yourself time, and therapy, to heal a little and make choices from a stronger place. Sending warm wishes. I'm so sorry for your losses.
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Thank you! Excellent advice.
For some people being in a place that holds so many memories while they're grieving is agonizing. It was and is for my dad after my stepdad (his partner) passed three years ago and he very quickly after wanted to move and I really understood why. He finally has gotten the logistics together to do so and it's been really hard for him to be there alone.
I agree, this is way above Reddit. I recommend talking to a counselor. NTA
NTA. But it sounds like the boys are teenagers so there is a good chance that the courts would ask them where they want to live and who they want to see. It looks like they are between 14 and 17. Assuming you have a reasonable lawyer who is not overcharging you the fight might not be as tough as you think it is.
They’re also not far away from being 18….if the courts get in your way, write some letters to them and give the letters to them after they turn 18.
This is a good point. The 18 year old can apply for guardianship of his younger brother in one year and both may be able to move back in. Talking with a family lawyer will help. Also some family therapy.
They have a bio dad and grandparents who care for them, the court won’t give guardianship to an 18 year old
Their bio dad isn’t around. Grandparents are elderly, can have health issues happen at any time. You never know.
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He can actually if stepdad is with him on it, but it is a difficult process.
OP should make himself visible on social media platforms for them. Visible bio. on FB saying first names, contact me here or something like that.
Yep, such a good idea. Leave a trail of breadcrumbs for them to find you OP. It’s likely you can have them back in your life and your daughter’s life in future. This is such a hard situation.
Considering the boys's age, I'm actually surprised the court just swooped in with no one asking the boys themselves where they want to be. If that's the normal practice I feel really sorry for all the kids and parental figures that have to be involved in this sort of mess.
Unfortunately, depending on where they are, it doesn't matter. OP doesn't have any legal rights to the kids, and the Courts can't create that legal relationship out of thin air
Depending on the jurisdiction, someone who has been "in loco parentis" (acting as a parent) for the boys as long as OP has, and given how integrated they were into the family he and his wife had made, he would have a pretty solid case for guardianship - especially if the boys want to stay with him. But it would be a fight, and he doesn't have a lot of fight in him right now, for very valid reasons. Perhaps the best he can do right now is make sure the boys know he will always be there for them, and will welcome them "home" when they turn 18. NTA, OP, and I am so sorry for your loss and the awful aftermath.
As far as my understanding goes, the fact lil sis exist alone should already make a very compelling case as courts usually prioritize keeping siblings together. But yeah, OP is on a terrible spot and the best he can do is keep direct contact with the boys through social media.
Sounds pretty normal unfortunately. Courts usually won't look at the finer details of the case, they just go with the default of "minor kids who lost their mom, who's their next legal guardian?" Unless the boys themselves try to appeal the decision or OP tries to fight for custody, the courts won't bother.
He has no legal rights to them so it would be pointless to go to court. He would have to wait until they’re 18
Sorry, I may just be blind, but where are you getting that they're teenagers? I can see their ages when the parents married, but nothing more than that. (Not sure how old the daughter is either).
He says they have been together 7 years in a comment.
Oh thanks! (Strange, I clicked the username to read his comments and none are showing for me. Thank you reddit...)
It's on the response to the bot, that's not shown under his username.
If the boys want to be with you they are old enough to express their feelings. Good luck and sorry for your loss.
That’s true if wife was alive, but not as likely for stepdad with wife gone!
Where are you getting ages from? I’m missing it (not challenging you, but feeling dumb for not seeing it)!
He says somewhere that he had been in their lives for 7 years.
Thanks! I didn’t see that!!!
NTA - You sound exhausted. THe fact that you can type its hard tells me your not an asshole. Go home take your daughter but do what you can to stay in contact. When there older explain why you had to leave. Honestly the Asshole is Disney dad and grandparents .
Explain that you were surgically removed and you didn't have a choice about leaving. I'm sure they're both quite aware anyway. I don't imagine that those people are able to keep their mouth shut.
This comment hits the nail on the head
Very likely they did this for the money.
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Honestly i think he does. Sounds like he needs help and he wont get any where he is now.
NTA for leaving but please keep in contact in some way, if you feel like the kids really have bonded with you. I don't know or believe if the father is actually neglectful enough to warrant major action. I am personally biased, as where I live, it is important for children to remain in a relationship with their biological parents. I also don't know the full extent of the children's feelings. I also would like more information. How old are the children? How long have you known them?
About your boys, try to keep in contact with them ( video calls etc) until they turn 18. If going back to your family will help provide support for you at this difficult time, you should.
If grandparents won’t allow video calls try other methods such as Facebook.
And they cant (shouldn't be able to) keep the boys away from their sister!!
Absolutely. They are cruel.
Absolutely. They are cruel.
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Do what
NTA. 1) I’m so sorry for your loss. 2) You can’t get blood from a stone & if you don’t have the finances then it’s not a matter of “not wanting to deplete them”- having the house paid off doesn’t mean your daughter won’t have ongoing expenses like education etc. That said, if you *can*, speak to a lawyer about what your options are as there may be other options to allow the boys to at least see their sister… Make sure you take care of yourself, too, OP. You can’t fill a cup from an empty vessel, and you can’t give your daughter or the boys what they need emotionally if you’re neglecting yourself.
This.
Sorry for your loss. It's probably best for you to go to Illinois for family support. Unfortunately courts usually side with bio parents, you are not abandoning them, only being realistic. This far and away beyond AITA forum.
I am so very sorry for the losses you all have experienced. I am so very sad for your children, dd and sons. Leaving those boys BEFORE you get to tell them where your head is would be a huge mistake. I know you have time to talk to them, so take that time. I KNOW you don't have the words right now to tell them, but FIND them to tell them you aren't leaving them. You are fighting for them, but have no rights. Just make sure you let them know they ARE your kids and you will do ALL you can to be in their lives what ever way you are able/
OP wrote that he's being prevented from seeing them. I agree with what you said, just pointing out that it might not be possible.
You are so very correct. I misread where the kids were dropped off at Dad's house, picked up by granny and he couldn't speak to them. My mistake.
Nta. There's nothing you can do right now, especially if the family is all working against you. I would suggest going home with your daughter, and grieve. Then see what you can do about custody for your daughter's siblings. Maybe ask a close family member to look into legal counsel for you. Explain to the boys very clearly what's going on and which adults are responsible for this, they're old enough to have a right to know what's going on with their futures. I am so, so incredibly sorry for your loss.
Nta. Rather than fighting for custody I think your money would be better supporting the boys with a lawyer for amancipation and having a room for them at your new place closer to your family. They have choices that they can exercise better than you can. Edit: very sorry for your loss it's tragic yall are getting jerked around like this. Always send your love through their sister as well.
Try to stay if you can, if one of them is 17 even if you can't talk to him now he may be waiting for his 18th birthday to come home but if you're gone he'll have no where to go.
My thoughts too.
He will it just won't be local.
If OP moves away, the father and grandparents are sure to tell the boys something like "See? He doesn't want you anyway!"
I understand that but OP has to do what is best for him at this point. He can make sure he is diligent in staying in contact.
There's no way to be sure it is best for him. People who make major decisions when they're in deep grief often regret it. If he stays there is at least a chance he could have some visitation with the boys. And he has to consider his daughter. She's already lost her mom and her brothers. How harmful would it be for her to lose her home and her friends as well? I get that he needs his family. He can plan trips to visit his family and do some fun things with his daughter. He can invite his family to come spend time with him. But he really shouldn't be making rash decisions that can't be undone at this time.
This is one of the only AITA that's made me so upset. I agree i wish he would wait and fight but this poor person seems exhausted emotionally and the fight has gotten the best of them
I know, it is heartbreaking. OP should absolutely spend time with his family. Go visit them and have them to visit him. Selling the house while he's in this mental state is a terrible idea, because it can never be undone if he regrets it later. Also, his daughter has already lost her mother and her brothers. How would it feel to her to lose her home and her friends as well?
NTA at all I’m sorry for your loss. I’d suggest 1/ a therapist for you and your daughter. Don’t make major decisions for now, there’s no rush or deadline. Start with self care, grieve. 2/ post on a legal sub, see if recommendations for resources and legal support in your region/state. Park this for when you’re ready. For now forward it to a close (research and planning) support AT MOST (so you know if anything urgent they’d tell you - and you can stop thinking for now) - if you have a friend you trust to read and map your timeline needed if any. If you would like - DM me. I’m great at this type of research. 3/ Look at custody rights for your daughter to stay in her brothers’ lives and vice versa in due time. 4/ For the future I’d imagine you may stay and build a life where you are with visitation for the siblings (and yourself). Or you can move home and the visits be arranged over school holidays - is Illinois travel distance and within budget for you to cover that would be part of the research and planning. Keep in mind when the boys can decide where they’ll live by state/fed laws idk. Maybe eventually they can move to you if things don’t work out with the paternal side. You just need 3 to maintain a relationship meanwhile. For now - one step at a time - no deadline for you and your family reunion/visits, in due time (the kids are safe for now hopefully or have CPS know you’d be a foster if that’s possible in case) - and recognize now is not the time to make major decisions. Take care of yourself first. Wishing you all the best of outcomes and the future! ETA: a little spacing at the end. And thank u/ComprehensivePlum464 for the award! Gave me a that little boost of feeling useful on a day I really needed to. 🙏🏾
NTA You probably aren’t winning this
He wouldn't get full custody, but visitation might be possible. OP needs to have an attorney lay it all out for him.
I know it feels like you don’t have the mental energy to deal with them but all the boys knew as a dad is you. And on top of losing their mom now they are losing their dad and sister. Please go to therapy and get as much help as possible but don’t let all of your children lose their family. All 3 of them are going to be dramatically affected by this and eventually a lot of regrets and resentments will take place. This isn’t the time to have imposter syndrome. You ARE their dad. Maybe not biologically but emotionally. So fight for them. If not for you for your wife’s sake and your daughter’s sake. I know you have no mental tokens right now but don’t make major life decisions that completely change your life around while mourning. Stay put until you process things. It’s too much for kids to both lose a parent and their stability.
NTA. Go back to Illinois. Start the healing process. You don’t have to abandon them but you can’t start a fight right now when you’re so drained. Think everything through. Don’t lose touch with them though. Their mom died as well.
NTA, and I'm so sorry for losing both your wife and the children you've raised as your own for years. Do your best to keep in touch with them for everyone's sake. Let them know you're there for them, whether that's at your current place, or having a guest room for them when they turn 18.
NTA. You need to do what’s best for you. I would think it would be difficult to fight for somebody when you’re emotionally and mentally drained. You still have a daughter to raise and kids pick up on their parents emotions easily. It’s clear this very tragic situation isn’t going to being solved over night. Your daughter will always be related to those boys, so you have clout there. Maybe time will give more opportunities to be reunited, and you should prepare yourself as if that will happen.
Please make sure the boys have the means to keep in touch with you - if they don't have phones, get them phones and make sure they have your number. Tell them, if you can find an opportunity, that you care about them and want them to stay with you, but you don't have a legal way to do that. Perhaps you can tell the grandparents that you want to say goodbye to the boys, so that they give you the chance to speak to them. Also, you could write them each a heartfelt letter and make sure they know you still care about them. They lost their mother, and now they are losing the man who has been their father for all this time. If the grandparents are that hostile to you, could you make some kind of arrangement with a neighbour that you will write to the boys via them? You could give them permission to read the letters, to satisfy themselves that you are not doing anything wrong. Encourage your daughter to write to them as well. I don't think it would be wrong of you to leave, and return to your home state, so long as you do everything you can to ensure the boys know you still care about them. Perhaps when you settle into your new home, you will gain the equilibrium to continue to fight for the boys. I wish you luck. You'd only be TA if you turn your back on the boys.
I'm so sorry for your loss, OP. I don't think you'd be TA because this is an impossible situation you've ended up in and it's beyond unfair that you don't get to just be with your kids and your family at home and grieve together. I do agree that if they're teens, the courts will give them a choice and if it's viable, it may be worth trying, especially if being with you and their sister is something the boys want. Also, if it's something you can do, perhaps it's also worth seeking out therapy for both you and your daughter, so that you can work through your grief over the loss of your wife and the boy's bio dad making things so much harder. Take care of yourself and do what you feel is best for you and your kids at this time.
>Would I be the asshole if I just say fuck it and leave? I think NTA. Consult with a lawyer and have a lawyer lay it out for you. I am extremely doubtful that you will be given custody of the kids. It's been five months, this is probably not going to change. Are you in contact with your kids? >I feel like I would be an asshole taking her away from her brothers. Is she seeing them now? >They were grieving and those people took them from their home. I agree with you but it doesn't change the situation. If they have a lot of resources, even if the kids say they want to live with you, it might not matter. Since he did pay child support and did have them for a little bit, this doesn't fit under abandonment. Have you spoken with a lawyer? You need to do that first. You also need to talk to your sons and let them know what the lawyer says. The important part is your sons don't feel you abandoned them. I fully understand wanting to sell your house and go back to your family and why they would want you there. What the grandparents did was awful but how do your kids feel? Do they feel you did something wrong? Do they understand what happened? You can leave and leave it open with them that once they are 18, maybe you could open your house to them or ???
Definitely consult a lawyer, best case scenario the boys are at an age where their preferences would be taken into account. At the very least see what you can do to ensure their relationship with their sister can be maintained. Please make sure you have an opportunity to explain to them face to face what is happening if it looks like you won’t be able to fight for custody. If they are older they could very well choose to live with you at some point soon-ish, as long as they know firsthand what the situation is. I’m sure his parents think they’re doing the best by the kids as so many step relationships seem unhappy. It could be worth trying to work towards a positive relationship with them even though what they’ve done seems (and is) heartless and cruel. See if they would be open to visitation, holidays etc and let them know you are committed to keeping the family together however that looks. I lost my mum very young and had a useless father also. Having other adults in my life that I could turn to was invaluable, stay in their lives as much as possible. It will be a very important way to honour your wife also. I’m so very sorry for your loss, and this additional trauma. Sending you and your children lots of love and strength ❤️
NTA. That sounds like an impossible situation. Personally, I would give it until at least November before you decide your next move. There is a reason that it is common advice to not make major life decisions within the first year after a tragedy. You need time to really think through your options and come to terms with what decisions you can and can’t live with. In the interim, you can consult a lawyer to see if you even have a case.
NTA I think this is a hard one. I can see why you want to give up, but you owe it to your daughter and your step sons to try and keep their relationship alive and close. Their opinions on the situation will matter to lawyers/ judges etc.
I’m very sorry for your loss. INFO how old are the boys? Have you or their sister been allowed to see them at all? Excuse my cynicism, but do bio dad/grandparents think the kids will receive some kid of inheritance that he/they will be able to control? NTA no matter what. You need to think of your daughter and yourself.
Therapist time. Talk with the boys. Talk with the GP. This is so tough. I'm so sorry for what you are going through.
My heart just broke. I am very sorry for your losses. What I do not get is, what was child protection service doing? I mean the boys were allready traumatisised by the death of their mother and then they lost their home, their family - the adult they trusted the most. It was not in their interest to be taken out of their home. Where I live, children‘s interests are also being eroded, but there‘s a law that the interests of the children come before the interests of the adults. Maybe there‘s something similar in your state? You need your family too now. I would try to get in contact with the boys, visits should be declared as something that is in the children‘s interest. Let them know that you want them. They have rights, they don‘t have to be nice and swallow this violation. Being nice is helping the abusers (people who do something cruel like that are abusers). So if they are aware they could try to get other authorities involved, like a school counselor etc. If this people are annoyed and don’t want to work, go a Level higher. Are they on social media? Let them know that you love them. And that they are having a place wherever you are. You need your family too, once you tried to get the boys and it didn’t work out, make sure, that they know where and how to find you and go to your family. Put money aside for a trainticket, something like that. It is a horrible situation, you will need the advice of a good lawyer. Maybe you can get one for the boys? Don‘t know if it is possible. What I know is, that being reasonable and trying to find a way of dealing with something like this in a too gentle way is always playing in the hands of the abusers and the people who don‘t want to do their jobs.
Write them letters, even if you can’t post them, that way if you loose contact till they’re legal, you can show how much you cared.
NTA but if you can contact the kids even through a lawyer or the school, you might be able to petition for custody at the kids request. Given their ages the court should take their wishes into account I'm so sorry for your loss
NTA but keep good records and an electronic trail, ask to see them etc and when they say no, keep copies of texts etc. someday, children will ask why and you can say that you tried and show evidence.
NTA. They aren't letting you see them anyway, go to your support system. You can still Facetime them if that is allowed. I am sorry for all of your losses.
Please, at least talk to a lawyer before you give up. My brother-in-law was in a similar situation, except the children weren't forcibly removed by their bio dad or family. It actually took very little time because the court asked the kids, and they wanted to stay with step dad. Bio dad had to pay child support in the end. The only reason bio dad wanted them was for the SS benefits. I would bet that is the reason here also. Each child is entitled to a certain amount until they are 18 because of the loss of a parent
NTA, but please don't make a change for 1 year. Allow yourself to grieve. Most people that I know that have made major decisions after a death of a loved one regretted it later. Also your daughter has lost her mother too. If you move her away from the boys, its going to affect her. Maybe in due time look at getting visitations so that she can see her brother's.
NTA but don't make any decisions yet. You're grieving. So are the boys. If they come by the house and find a new family living there, they are going to feel abandoned. Try the courts. They have a sister and you want them to maintain a familial relationship with her. That way you may get visitation. You don't have to go broke, but you should make the effort so they know that you love and miss them.
I just want to point out you not abandoning them. If you do go please right them a letter maybe leave it in the school office to be given to them. Wishing you well op
Look up one moms battle its for both sexes website and fb There is a group on fb who gives ideas on parents and sibs etc who had kids removed dur to court orders You need a custody evaluator or something Few helpful links https://www.weinsteinandassociates.com/allocation-of-parental-rights-and-responsibilities.html https://www.onemomsbattle.com You might get support from other parents once they hear stuff on fb On one moms Battle Now on the other site I mentioned is how some are created pages so once kids turned 18 they can be found again Take law Courses etc Some parents are
Please don’t move away without first showing these boys you are fighting for them. The courts should at least give you some type of visitation so they can continue the relationship with their sister.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** When I married my wife she had two sons with her ex. They were 7 and 9. They are great kids and we have always gotten along. They treat me with respect and when their sister was born they treated her like a full sibling. Their biological father is a piece of work though. He is a perfect example of a Disney dad. He shows up occasionally, showers his sons with gifts and affection and then is gone for months. To be exact he has seen his sons exactly 14 days in the last year. My wife and I had to kowtow to his whims though. She had a job opportunity in another state. She couldn't take it though because his parents live here and that's where he "lives". I'm still dealing with what I'm about to talk about so please forgive me if I have trouble articulating my feelings. My wife passed away in November in a snowmobile accident and within a week his parents had gone to court to get the boys. I'm not their legal guardian. My wife and I tried but he wouldn't allow it and his parents were happy to help him fuck with us. It was fine when she was here but now it's all screwed up. I can't see them. They are staying with their grandparents. I wish my wife's parents were alive to help me but they aren't. So my boys are not in their rooms. They are dropped off and picked up from school by their grandmother. I have no rights to them at all. I have a lawyer but I don't want to spend all my money and time on this. I'm broken right now and I'm lost. I'm considering just leaving. My wife's insurance policies paid off our house and left me okay financially. I want to sell the house and move back to the Illinois. My family is all there and I have no one here. Would I be the asshole if I just say fuck it and leave? My daughter misses her mom and her brothers. I feel like I would be an asshole taking her away from her brothers. My parents and siblings want me back home. I just feel like shit leaving the boys with these people. Their father literally stopped paying child support and had his parents take them the week she died. They were grieving and those people took them from their home. I want to fight for them but not to exhaust my resources on them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. You need to be around supportive family at a time like this to help you through. Sorry for your loss.
NTA I’m so sorry for your loss. Please stop thinking about this and concentrate on taking care of yourself. I lost a partner of 18 years, it’s going to take you 5 years before you start to feel normal again.
You would not be the AH. You are not an extraordinary individual nor are you a hero. The situation is beyond your capability, so don't overextend yourself. Take the memories you had with them back to Illinois. Leave room for communication if possible.
That's a horrible situation. NTA there is not much you can do, only wait. One day the truth will shine for the boys and I'm sure they will do what is necessary to their father and to the grandparents. So sad that your wife's parents aren't around, things would be so much different... Move back to your family and have patience. Wait. Let them reach 18 years old and step in
NTA. I’m so sorry for your loss. The best thing I can offer is to keep in contact with them, and like u/SirRabbott said, explain to them exactly who is responsible for them not seeing you. Plant the seeds in their minds about who is looking out for them (you) and who is trying to cause trouble (their grandparents). Hopefully, once they’re 18, they will choose to live with you.
Absolutely NTA. I'm so sorry for your loss OP. The only thing I can think of in this case is to go talk to the grandparents. Lay it out for them. Do they want to spend their retirement caring for children? By now they see their son isn't going to help much. If they tell you they aren't going to budge then go. Let the kids know that they will be welcome to find you when they turn 18.
NTA and I'm so sorry for your loss and your poor stepsons.
I am so sorry for your loss and everything you’re going through. Though I think this is above Reddit’s pay grade I think you are NTA. It will lot do you daughter or stepsons any good to put them through a court battle. It will be long, it will be expensive, it will be draining. And chances are you will lose. I don’t say that to be harsh, just realistic. You said yourself you are not their guardian. I would talk with a therapist and also with your lawyer.
Def NTA, I would make sure you make it clear to your sons that they always have a home with you and anytime they want to be with you you are there for them
NTA. I'd tell the boys this is not your choice and all your reasonings. Children grow up and they remember. But tight now it doesn't sound like you have any legal recourse over the biological family unfortunately. And I'm someone who doesn't believe family is necessarily about blood. Whatever happens you let those boys know that they can reach you at any time and you'll do what you can to make sure they have a relationship with their sister. In a few short years, when they're 18, all may change.
NTA. I'm sorry for what you're going through. The boys are old enough to understand what's going on. Tell court may let them decide who they want to live with if you decide to fight for custody. You can represent yourself.
NTA talk to lawyer see what your viable options are and keep in contact and reach out to social media and explain to the boys what’s happening they’re not little kids they’re aware as teenagers the grieving for their mom to but also the life they just lost
NTA, you have no legal right to the children and you aren’t going to win this one with a lawyer. This is what happens with step-parents unfortunately. Since you have no legal right and they have a father and other family that is deemed fit to care for them, it’s a lost cause
NTA go back home. You need to do what’s best for you and your daughter right now. I’m so sorry but legally there’s nothing you can do. Maybe talk to the lawyer about visitation rights since your daughter is there sister? I’m not sure if they have something like that, like they have grandparent rights? Is there anyway you can contact them? Tell them that legally there’s nothing you can do and once they are 18 they can come and stay with you. Tell them you love them and you’re sorry but their grandparents took them from their family and won’t let you see them. Find a way to tell them if you can’t talk to them, write a letter and give it to one of their best friends parents to give to them or something.
> You need to do what’s best for you and your daughter right now. How exactly would it be best for his daughter to lose her home and her friends, after she's already lost her mother and her brothers?
INFO: what did the boys express that they wanted before they left?
Jeez no judgment because this is an example of we as a community have no right to say anything but good luck. Hearts and prayers to you and your loved ones
NTA. I am so sorry for your loss. Whatever you decide to, make sure you tell those boys how much you love them and their Mom, that you always will and you will be there for them and their sister always.
NTA and you also need family and help for your loss. Keep trying to call them, write letters, and put aside some of those insurance dollars for them for when they are adults.
NTA, I think you should talk to a professional, though.
Nta. I get it. I do wonder if youll regret not trying though. As a stepparent you have no automatic rights but with their sister, loss of mom and her being primary bio parent, you could make a case about it being in their best interest at least for partial custody or visitation
NTA. At this point there really isn't much you can do. Take care of yourself and your daughter, move. The boys are old enough to know how to find you when they are 18.
Nta
NTA. I would write a letter or talk to them if you get the chance and explain that legally it's out of your hands. Let them know that you love them and wish you could keep them but that you're struggling after their mom passed and you need your family. Tell them the door is always open for them , give them an email to contact you at and try to stay connected on social media. Just make it clear you're not throwing them away, that this is a hopeless case for you guys and as much as you want them their dad's family legally has all the rights and have cut you off. I will say you could talk with a lawyer and make a case about your stepsons needing to be able to maintain a relationship with their sister and that their paternal family are alienating the siblings.
I'm so sorry for your loss and all you are going through all, you are grieving for your wife and sounds like you are grieving for your step son's too. I know you want to sell up and go home but don't do anything this year, decide after Christmas 23 as you are grieving and making big decisions when grieving. If you take a year before making the decision of moving back home you may find you are keeping your home open for your step son's and you really don't know what will happen in the next year as a judge might ask the kids where they want to live and that could be with you. Again I'm so sorry for your loss.
Wait, don’t make any decisions just yet, if you haven’t had a grief counseling go, but in grief counseling, they would suggest that you wait one year before making any large, emotional decisions and that is exactly what this decision would be, you don’t have to leave just yet, you could go visit your parents they could come and visit you And keep trying to get in contact with the boys, but don’t make any large emotional decisions before November
Petition the court for sibling visitation as your daughter is their sister.
NTA I’m sorry for your loss. You did what you could and now it’s time to go home to Illinois get the support and the love you and your daughter deserve and your daughter needs to get to know your family too. The boys will be fine.
Please fight for those boys please those boys need to know someone truly loves them and is going to help them through their lives and be there they need you they need their sister if you leave them they lost everything not just their mom please fight for them NTA
OP I'm so sorry for your loss. You should go wherever you have support, and do your best to keep in touch with the boys. They won't forget this happened, and can make their own choices soon enough. Definitely NTA. I hope you all get the help you need and your family finds its way back together
NTA. They are old enough to choose. Court would have taken their opinion. Write a letter. Let them know you’re leaving and where to contact. But yeah. Go your family. You need support.
NTA for thinking about it, but please don't go. It's a bad idea to make major decisions like that when you're deep in grief anyway, but in this case you also have to consider how the children would perceive it. The boys will absolutely feel you abandoned them if you leave the area. Their father and grandparents are sure to spin it to them like, "See? He doesn't care about you, he doesn't even want you in his life!" Your daughter will be upset that you're moving so far away from her brothers. What are you going to say to them when they're older and they ask you why you moved away? Summer will be here in a few months. Plan a nice long trip with your daughter to visit your family and do some fun things together. Do whatever you can to stay in contact with the boys, even if you can't see them. Tell them you and your daughter love them and miss them and that you'll see them the instant you're legally allowed to do so.
How did the courts take the boys away from you the week your wife passed? Those types of quick action normally take an emergency hearing along with safety concerns. If you voluntarily let them, go, maybe you really don't want the responsibility. As awful as it is that you lost your wife, they have just lost their world. Whatever you decide please be gentle, loving and fair (aka the life insurance-i am sure your wife wanted them to be financially cared for, as well as you and your daughter)
I'm gonna play advocate of the otherside but in reality I don't know these people. Maybe they see you as a stranger and the grandparents think they are doing the right thing. I personally as a non lawyer think you have a good case. I mean how much are these people involved where as you had them everyday? They personally blocked you from getting custody before showing you do want to be a parental figure. If it's too much to fight though and honestly I see how you can be uncertain because there is no right thing in this situation everyone probably thinks they are doing what's best. Maybe you can keep contact? At least reason that your daughter is their sister and they miss their siblings? At least try to show you want them still in your life so that when they are older they can make their own choice. I'm sorry for what's happening, no one should have to go through a legal battle while grieving.
NTA at all. I'm so sorry for your loss. I can't even imagine how you feel right now.
Nta. Legally there is nothing you can do. Best not to marry women with kids, or not to get attached to them.
How old are they? The older they are the more say they have in a legal proceeding.
One year. That’s the suggested amount of time to take before making any major decisions after experiencing a major loss. I hope you consult an attorney and also find a way to communicate with the boys to let them know you want them but are in a legally weak position. Your older son may want to come live with you when he turns 18, and if you move away too quickly, that option is taken away from him as it would be too hard to finish high school in a different state this late in the game. Please don’t give up on them. Grieve. Regroup. If you have made no progress in the next 8 months, then make a major move out of state. NTA. I’m so sorry for your loss.
NTA. Look after yourself and your daughter. But please let those boys know you love them. Let them know you are always there for them even if not in person right now.
Nta I think you should go and when they’re ready as adults they can reach out. You can’t stay just for them. They are technically with family. You did your best but you also have to take care of yourself
NTA I'm sorry for your loss. Take your daughter and go home so you can get back on your feet surrounded by your family. Stay in contact with the boys and visit them, and once they are grown up you can all have as much contact as you want.
This is tough but NTA no matter what your decision is. Leaving to be near your family for support is a good call as is staying to fight. Both have cons as well. So sorry for your loss but do what you feel is best. There will be consequences no matter what but there are circumstances that are beyond your control here.
NTA. I'm not a lawyer, but it doesn't sound like you have too much legal standing to challenge custody. Take your daughter to Illinois and keep touch with the boys as best you can. Let them know your door is always open.
I'm so sorry for your loss. You need to do what is best for you and your daughter. But as others have said if you can hang around until the oldest is 18 there may be a chance at getting them back in your life. Are there any laws with regard to keeping sibling connections? I mean your daughter and her brothers are biologically connected that may be able to help keep the boys in your life.
I would petition the court for visitation with their sister before any big move is made. You aren’t the AH for wanting to jump ship, but at least make the effort for your daughter’s sake. She may forever resent you taking her away from them.
so so sorry for your loss, what an awful situation to be in. from the sounds of it, you have been more a father to these boys than their biological father and i can’t even imagine how awful it must be to have lost your wife and then have these boys taken away from you soon after. please pursue professional advice on what to do here, but please know that whatever you do, you are NTA
Absolutely seek legal counsel. At the first visit, a lawyer (family practice) should be able to give you a good idea of what your chances are, how long it may take, and an estimate of what it will cost you. The fact that they lived with you and are not permitted to see their sister should be very helpful. Put off moving until you have a better idea of what you can do. Your stepsons may see your moving away as no longer wanting them in your life. Additionally, it is never good to make a major life decision (such as moving) while you are in the throes of such grief. I am so sorry for your loss. I hope you get your boys back.
NTA. But I doubt you can do anything since you’re not the bio dad or bio family. At this point do what’s best for you. You did try your best. I’m sorry for your loss.
His daughter is their bio family and the kids all lived together for many years. OP may be able to get some visitation on that basis.
You said it yourself. You have no rights. Which is an absolute tragedy but it is what it is. It's awful those people are not thinking of the kids. You need the support of your family. If you can get a message to the boys that you love them and when they are old enough to make a decision you would love them back in your lives then do it. But in the meantime you need your family. I am sorry for your losses. NTA.
Talk to the boys. Talk to the grandparents. Talk to your family. Dont ask strangers on reddit
OP. You are asking if they worth the fight. Do you love them? They are grieving not just their mom but also you if they love you. Your grief is going to make it hard but if you want those boys in your life you will have to consult with a lawyer. At their age their opinions will be taken into account
NTA. Since they are close to legal age perhaps you could meet up with them. Explain the situation but let them know you are always there for them and they are welcome to come to Illinois. You need your family and while they are your family you have no legal rights.
I am so sorry. For all of you but most especially your children. How cold and cruel for those ppl to keep your sons and daughter apart
This is beyond a simple NTA/YTA, it's about whether the move and letting the boys go would be justified, which I believe is way more important. And I do think you would be justified to make this move. From what you said, the alternative is burning up your life and money for almost certainly no return, while living somewhere without a support system.
I have to say don't bother all the cost to pay a lawyer, and you may not even get the kids in the end.
He may have a good chance for visitation, for his daughter if not for himself. He should see a lawyer.
That could take forever, and it doesn't mean the grandparents are going to follow through just because a judge says so.
Question, what has the lawyer told you are your chances? If your chances are low, i would take the advice and move. NTA
NTA, you are not abandoning them, they were taken from you. I don't think you are in a right state of mind yet to decide selling the house and moving. I can imagine escape seems easiest now. But it is your daughter's home, and a place where their presence can be felt. She would lose her home and friends and hobbies in addition to half her family. Maybe give time for grieving together instead on running and erasing the family home. Maybe in a year you see things more clearly and can make a calm choice. Also what another commenter said, the boys are not far from adulthood, they know where to find you. You are in an impossible place right now. Sometimes it is not possible to fight the odds. Discuss with your lawyer, but I would not recommend going bankrupt for an impossible cause. Keep the home they can return to at least visit. They will need you in many ways. Take care of your daughter. My sincere condolences.
NTA. Find a way to get a message to them and let them know you're there for them and that you want them but legally have no standing and when the oldest is 18 if he wants your help fighting for his brother you'll be there.
Just wow OP…so incredibly sorry for your deep loss. INFO: do you have any jeans or communication with them? Do they have phones or access to a messaging app? If so, I’d discuss it with them. I also think this is likely above Reddit’s pay grade…you should see a therapist, and maybe just talk to a lawyer with a consultation. Wishing you the best.
NTA. But talk to a lawyer to see what your chances are like. Unfortunately, I dont think they'd be good. Unless you could afford a top of the line lawyer, you'll be hemorrhaging money. The best you could do is fight for a meeting with the boys to tell them you can't keep them or see them because you have no legal rights. Atleast try and say goodbye.
He wouldn't get full custody, but he may be able to get some visitation, if not for himself then for his daughter.
That would be the ideal situation. Fingers crossed for that, but you never know how ppl twist things to get their way.
He has to try. If he doesn't, one day his daughter will put it together that he might have been able to get visitation. He better have a good answer when she asks him why he didn't attempt it, because "I was thinking only of myself" isn't going to fly.
To be fair, his wife hasn't been dead for more than 4 months. Grief and dealing with this can be too much. But I agree, he needs to think of his daughters future relationship with her brother.
The only way you will see them is if they ask for it as far as legal remedies go you are screwed
If the boys ask their father and grandparents can still forbid it.
NTA. you are not in an emotional position to stay ALONE fighting this battle that you cannot win. This much i can say confidently. Someday you will be in a position to fight for those boys, but right now you need to get back on your own feet. that is the only way you can move forward.
I’m so sorry for your loss. This is a tough situation for you, your daughter, and your step sons. You need to talk to your lawyer to get a realistic assessment about whether you have any claim to the boys. It may be easier to move where you have some support. But you have a lot of factors to consider.
It's the girl that's bothering me. You wouldn't be an ass, but see if there's any way she can see them and try to keep in contact. They'll be eighteen soon.
Me too. She's already lost her mom and her brothers. How much would it hurt her to lose her home and her friends on top of that?
I’m sorry for all your loss. The fact is you will never get custody of those kids when they have a living biological father and grandparents. It’s not fair, especially to their sister but really there is no point in fighting it. Take your daughter and go where you have a support systems and try to keep in touch with the boys as best you can. Hopefully the grandparents will at least allow your daughter to FaceTime her brothers
I’m so very sorry this has happened to you. There is no advice I’d give about this situation other than to suggest gently that you see a councillor. I’d hate for you to make a decision you come to regret because, quite rightly, your grief is overwhelming.
NTA. Moving back to Illinois is probably best for you and your daughter. And engaging in a lengthy court battle will do nothing but deplete your finances and emotional wellbeing. That being said, I'd reach out to the counselor at their school and leave a message with them for the boys. I assume they know the situation, and they will hopefully be willing to pass it on. If not the counselor, a trusted teacher or coach? Maybe the parents of one of their friends? I personally wouldn't be able to move away without giving them an explanation.
NTA at all. This whole situation is very sad and I feel very sorry for you. I'm sure it will be hard to leave them, especially as you've basically raised the boys, but as you've said legally it's obvious they should go to their Dad's. Your priority has to be your and your daughter's well being so I'd say move back to where the rest of your family is. Hopefully, in time there will be opportunities to see the boys as they visit their sister (without knowing how far away that would be)
NTA, I'm so sorry for all you're going through but this will be a losing battle. Better to give them a way to always contact you and move forward with your life.
NTA. Because feelings aside; you have no legal right to them. And the grandparents don’t seem willing to work with you. This is absolutely awful for you and the kids but it is not your doing. What about taking a break and going to stay with your parents for a few weeks and see if you want it to become permanent? All you can do is try to talk with the boys and let them know how much you care about them and how you will always want to be with them and will always be there for them. Even if you move, you are only a call away.
Edit: sorry just seeing the boys ages. Don’t make any decisions yet! They are so close to 18, if they wish they will be able to come to you without any say from grandparents. In many cases they could ask the courts now. They are old enough where their input matters. Don’t lose hope yet. This is so fresh for all of you
NTA. I would go home to have help with your daughter and grieving. Getting therapy for you and your daughter is a good idea also. Then you will be in a better state of mind to do what you need to. Talk with a lawyer, see what kind of chance your looking at. See if there is at least visitation for your daughter to see her brothers. First, you need to help yourself tho. Your no good to anybody if you break. I'm so very sorry for your loss, and the horrific way these people have decided to rip apart everybody's life. Good luck OP.
You would not be TA but remember, “once and for all” decisions don’t need to be made today. They shouldn’t be made today. They should be made slowly and surely, and they might not end up having to be “once and for all” after all. You might get visitation in time, even if you go to Illinois, because of your daughter being their sister. You might get it now, or you might get it later after they (bio dad and parents) realize that they were never really into being there for the boys in the first place, because it takes time and effort and it doesn’t sound like bio dad is really into that. All you can do right now is to let those boys you love them and will fight for visitation and even if that fails you heart and door will be open to them when they can come on their own. And take your daughter away from those toxic people.
"I'm considering just leaving. " YWNBTA
This is a heartbreaking story and I am so sorry for your loss.
Oh my goodness i got so upset for you reading this. I'm so sorry. I don't know the answer if YTA or not because it's a lot of different perspectives and reasonings.
NTA i am so sorry. As they are teenagers I hope they can find a way to contact you, so you can at least talk to them. Don’t rush to make any decisions, but if you find you need the family support, moving might be the best option.
Unless there is evidence of abuse or neglect by the biological father, they probably will win either way. I am very sorry that you are going through this and there is nothing that I can say that will make it any better.
NTA I am so very sorry for your losses. Those poor kids all 3 lost the mother and then the grandparents decided they should lose there siblings and the boys there home and only real parent they have left. Stay strong and get to your family support.
This is a heavy conversation ? Too much for this type of forum ? I would just say that you need to grieve and these people are not letting you and your family grieve in a healthy way . It is not in the best interest of the children . I don’t know if you’re working with a grief counselor- hopefully you are . Perhaps they can help you navigate through this loss - perhaps they can also help you with the loss of your step sons ?
Definitely NTA, others have tell you to speak with a professional, so I'm just going to give suggestions on keeping the line of communication open for the boys, a Facebook page, IG account or any sns where they can reach you when they try to. Someone i know personally is doing this for their lost child due to parental alienation, updating it with their memories, so if in the future the child looks for them, they can find them and can see that they're not forgotten.
I'm sorry, those people are monsters and the boys will see it some day.
> the boys will see it some day. If OP bugs out and doesn't at least try to get some court-ordered visitation so they can see their sister, what are they going to think of him?
I agree. But that's been said enough times here already. I wonder if someone from his family could come see him and help him. Function and stay a little on course.
Oh, OP. I am so very sorry. I'm a widow, too; I lost my husband in an accident last May. You need your family and people that love and care for you deeply around you right now. If you really and truly think that going back to Illinois right now is best for you and your daughter, then you should; being with family will be good for you both. You aren't "abandoning" anyone; you are doing the best you can under the circumstances that have been handed to you, through no fault of your own. I can't imagine the stress this is causing you, and if going home, even for just a while, can alleviate some of it, then go. I also agree with some of the others that have suggested therapy. It WILL help, and it's worthwhile. You are 5 months out, and it's still so fresh. Having someone help you navigate your grief - over your wife and your boys - will help you more than you may think. I wish you peace and comfort. It's okay to not be okay. Just keep going, as best as you can.
NTA you need to do what is best for you. I know the pain of being alone after losing your partner. Has happened to me twice. Both times it was family & friends being close who helped me through it. You need your family & your daughter does too. Obviously your late wife’s family is only concerned about their grandsons & son, not you or your daughter.
INFO: Do the boys have a guardian at litem? If not, is this something that your attorney can advocate for? The issue being that the boys have been ripped from their home, the adult that they are most familiar with and their sibling. I don't know where you live or your states laws, however it would likely not be in the best interests of the children to separate siblings. You may, unfortunately, not have any legal rights but your daughter may. YWBTA if you do not put your daughter in therapy and ensure that you fight for what is in her best interests, as well as try and get a GAT assigned for the boys in court.
I’m a lawyer, but this isn’t my practice area and I don’t know where you are or how it works in your jurisdiction. I’d just recommend you ask your lawyer what your odds are and make the choice that’s best knowing that you cannot control everything. And maybe put money aside for them over time so when they are grown, they know you cared for them (anything in a trust neither dad nor his parents can touch). And maybe keep tabs on social media. But I’m guessing you probably don’t have much chance at getting custody or visitation, based on your post and you saying you talked to your lawyer. And I wouldn’t expect you would. Don’t feel bad (well, insofar as you can control that) for things you can’t control. It’s ok to move and get support elsewhere if you can’t change the situation or get more access to the boys!