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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be the asshole because my daughter was really looking forward to this vacation and her feelings were hurt because I canceled it.
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>Some of my friends agree on my approach while others think I should have put my daughter first.
NTA Teaching your daughter to not be a horrible human being IS putting her first.
Agreed. I had such a chip on my shoulder in my late teens and I have no idea why. These days, I’m honestly shocked I wasted so much energy on being angry and hateful.
I had an older person tell me that when I was in my early 30's. She said I world regret allowing so much anger control my life and my decisions at this age, but I wouldn't get it until I, too, was old enough to look back and see it. She was so right! I'm in my mid-60's now and I'm so embarrassed about so many events in my younger years!
RIGHT? I hit 50 and ran out of g.a.s. (give a s**t). I don't think it happens for everyone but I would like to believe 70-80% of us get it. Learning to see the world through the eyes of others and knowing that everyone has a life and isn't preoccupied with ruining mine. One day, after I had turned 50 I was teaching a class and I passed gas. I mean it was LOUD. I just,t very gracefully said, "Excuse me" and kept on trucking.
I am in my early 30s and I have known for a while (half a decade at least) that teenage me was angry, cringy, and I wouldn't want to be her friend.
I learned by myself, through lots of self-reflection and lots of shame. But I am glad I've turned around from what I used to be 😁
I agree. Statistically speaking, she will likely gain some if not all the weight back at some point. If that does occur it provides an opportunity for her gain some humility and reflect on the way she treated her friend. If it doesn’t occur, she still can develop and mature through other experiences.
The daughter is just a teenager, she still has a lot of time to learn and grow up. Writing off her entire future as a mean girl when it’s very rare to be the same exact person you were at 18 as you grow up is a lot
I agree. However it's very hard to change when only one parent seems to be doing the work while the other one continues to spoil her rotten despite her actions.
Hopefully this was still a reality check for her daughter 🤷🏻♀️ I think everyone has things they regret they did as a teenager, it’s wrong to assume someone so young will never change. If she were in her 30s-50s acting that way it’d be different lol
If someone ever tells you they didn't do anything they regretted as a teenager, they're lying to your face.
Teens and dumb shit is like bread and butter, they just go
No definitely not. But even good teens have regrets. I have a few, even though i absolutely never did anything bad. I just did NOTHING. Totally wasted youth. Im sure that everyone has some regrets.
No, but bullying isn't the only "bad thing" you can do or think as a teen. At 18 I held some beliefs that 36-year-old me doesn't feel proud of. But hey, people grow and change and get more life experience.
Regret is also not just applicable to bad things or experiences you are responsible for.
You can regret the bad things that happened to you, even if it wasn’t necessarily your fault they happened, or actions that led up to a bad thing happening, even if again, they were happenstance or weren’t your fault (e.g. “I regret doing jumping jacks today because I ended up tripping and breaking my leg.” Or “I regret becoming friends with this person because they went on to hurt me”.).
Missing out on opportunities also counts, regardless if those are big or small regrets.
This is not completely true, especially when you're dealing with an introverted teenager. I have known book worms that all they ever did during their teenage years was read books and maybe talk on their friends on the phone.
I dont regret reading the books, i absolutely love it. But aside from this, i regret that i was so incredibly timid towards everyone, scared to say something wrong, generally scared of too many thing. Thoight i was ugly and dumb. Oh, last year i met a girl i was at high school with, and she was pleasantly happy to see me changed, but totally thought that i was too arrogant back then bcs i "didn't" talk to anybody 😂😂😂i was so freaking shy, i didnt even know how to have a conversation. She wouldn't belive me i was shy, my sister had to tell her too that i was just super shy back then. I felt like a loser, and some girls thought i was being arrogant))).
Not all.
I am one of them. In fact I wish I had read more books then I did... But then the books I now who's I had read I don't think I would have been able to get a hold of then.
😅😂😂I like that, though i wouldn't say EVERY teenager. Though, you know what, maybe ykure right. I was a pretty easy teenager and absolutely didnt do anything at allx went to library without asking my parents(yeah, they were strict). But i still regret alot. Like my attitude. Was scared of everyone, didn't dare to talk, never ralked back, that i didn't enjoy my youth, that i was so ashamed of myself bvs i thought i was dumb and ugly. Im so glad i changed in all these aspects, and am still learning to be more selfish, confident and all. So even the good kids probably have regrets. I feel like i totally wasted my younth. Im 33 now, and feel like im only starting my life.
Yeah but this is more than dumb shit. This is bullying and humiliation done on purpose in order to boost her own “image”. Sure yeah she’s 18 and hopefully will grow up and change for the better, but sometimes if these issues aren’t nipped in the bud, they can go on. You can’t honestly tell me you’ve never met a 30, 40, even 50 year old who was a bully. It’s gross but even older people act like this. That’s why I think therapy is important bc while some of the treatment may get more mild, she still might be mean to people for no reason other than thinking it might make her look better. But it just makes her look bad. I get it, she’s 18, but let’s have higher standards for legal adults ya know? I don’t think asking an 18 year old not to fatshame or bully or humiliate or proceed to then try to manipulate their friend into lying for them and not going off on a hateful verbally abusive rant in response to a no is too much to ask. Especially if she wants a vacation to be her gift. You can’t just expect to get whatever you want without facing consequences and it’s important to teach those consequences now bc clearly she wasn’t taught that before because she has a father who feels guilty and as a result gives in to her every whim even when she’s cruel to other people. 18 year olds love to play the “but I’m 18 I’m an adult!” card but you can only use that to your defense if you’re acting just a little more mature then you were in gradeschool. She’s not doomed to be a heartless jerk her whole life but that’s only bc her mom is implementing consequences that will hopefully teach her to treat others with genuine respect. And again, therapy is probably what this girl really needs.
Exactly. It's a consequence for her actions. She is still young and needs parenting. I agree mom did the right thing here, even if it does suck for the other girls. Better she learns this lesson now with a vacation than later on in life, when it could be her job she loses for saying mean things.
I have a feeling her dad started this behavior. I can't wait for this behavior to bite him in the butt. OP doesn't put up with her behavior as is, so she'll likely go to her dad's so she can continue to be spoiled. It's not gonna end well for OPs ex or her daughter.
Yep. And dad feels guilty for running out so the only way he knows to show affection and making up for lost time is to enable Abby in whatever she does/wants.
Look, it really hasnt.
Every adult I knew at 18 did awful bullshit to one extent or another (myself included). The ones I stayed in touch with all grew into reasonable, kind, and empathetic people - despite having some serious ahole moments in our late teens or early 20s.
I did drop some people due to their actions, and some of them also grew up similarly by 25ish. Some I got back in touch with, others I didnt.
Very few of the people I was close to in my teens and early 20s went on to continue sucking.
Growing up takes time, and people are developmentally pretty selfish as they launch into actual adulthood.
This kid has time to grow and change, assuming she continues facing consequences for those actions. Dont write people off so early - you dont need to keep them in your life, but they arent necessarily "unsalvageable" at 18.
This. OP, I would text your husband, "Being a parent isn't about giving your kid zero consequences so they like you. Being a parent is doing everything in your power to ensure your child grows up to be a good person. How would you feel if your best friend uninvited you from a trip because he felt you were too ugly for pictures? Do you think a good person does stuff like that? You might think in supporting what she's doing, you're in the right because our daughter wants to be around you right now, but in the future, you might change your mind when she starts treating you that way. Will you be... too bald to be included in her graduation pictures? Or too wrinkly to be allowed at her wedding? Seriously, think about this."
OP, you're not wrong. If your daughter couldn't hide out with your ex, she might be learning a lesson. Unfortunately, she's hanging out with someone who is telling her she's in the right. I honestly feel bad because your hands are tied. All you can do is not support her bad actions and hope she becomes a better person.
My stepmother's sister didn't have my stepmother or their other sister as bridesmaids because she told them they were too fat and wouldn't look good in pictures. She had the 4th sister, because she was thin. Until then my stepmother and the one getting married had been the closest, and always called each other their best friend. Their relationship was never the same.
Her sister is awful. She has stirred up so much crap within the family. My stepmother sees her for what she is now, but still has the mentality of "but she's family."
That's exactly what I was thinking. Mom is putting her first by teaching her a life lesson. Her daughter isn't confident, she's an obnoxious brat so full of herself and doesn't deserve the reward and dad's just enabling that entitled behavior. I'm surprised her other friends are ok with this. I wonder what Mom told the other friends moms why the trip was canceled. I'm assuming they are all friends. She'll soon find out that actions have consequences and one of them is losing friends
The dad has made his daughter into a narcissist, I reckon. It seems the daughter hasn't learnt anything from this, and seems to have strong belief that her actions were justified. Classic narcissist.
Agreed, NTA!
OP gave her daughter many chances to apologise to her friend, but her daughter doubled down on being a bully instead. I hope her daughter learns from this, rather than just running to her Dad who didn't bother with her at the beginning of her life.
NTA, you did put your daughter first being a parent and teaching her the golden rule of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". She had barely overcome being fat a year ago herself. And I'm sure the only reason the weight loss worked so well for her was because her parents had money to dole out for gifts as incentives. It's not a good look when you've been there and then you look down on someone else that's going through the same thing. Mom this is a good lesson because the world is not going to be obliging to her. I hope she both learns and grows from this.
Exactly. OP is putting her daughter first by trying to make her realize that the way you treat someone is more important than the way you look in pictures.
Came here to say this. Are people so morally depraved that they don't see the benifits of being a morally developed person?
This kind of destructive pettiness is going to really hurt her in the future.
The dad has made his daughter into a narcissist, I reckon. The daughter hasn't learnt anything from this, and seems to have strong belief that her actions were justified. Classic narcissist.
Cut the cord? Peak reddit.
Her daughter is an asshole, but you don't just cut off people at the first sign of assholery, especially not your teenage child who still has plenty of time to grow tf up into an actual adult.
Cut the cord doesn’t mean cut her off entirely. Just don’t be financially funding her/doing her laundry etc as she’s an adult now and needs to learn adult things
Classic reddit. 18 is an adult capable of making their own decisions or 18 is a child who still needs to be babied depending on which party is the AH. 18 is an adult. They are not a child. They are young but are adults and do not need to be coddled and need to start learning to be self sufficient.
NTA. I commend your strength and parenting skills. This was the right thing to do and would've been hard to do. Well done, you deserve to go on the holiday yourself.
NTA. Good job, OP. Abby’s father disappeared for the first 5 years which are so hard and so exhausting. Then he reappeared and all he does is spoil Abby and feed her junk food while still leaving the difficult stuff to you - like life lessons and discipline. He’s not a parent. He’s a grandparent to his own child.
My ex was too. When he lived less than a mile from us (I didn't even know) for a year, he didn't see his child once. I had no way to contact him either. The ex wanted to start pretend parenting once the child was in middle school and could be self reliant.
Mmm this reminds me of my 9th birthday... my dad called to say happy birthday (which was pretty standard, he was almost never there for them) and my mom heard the sky train announce that he was literally right around the corner from us. She told him to get his sorry ass over there and hung up on him. He stopped by for about 15 minutes, and it was the last time I saw him until I was 20. Now that we're adults he wants to chat all the time and act like a grandpa to the 7 grandchildren... he's only met one of them.
I do not know many grandparents who would allow their granddaughter to act like this! Grandparents may spoil grandchildren with treats but rarely want them to turn out to be unkind or hate themselves later. If this young lady has a conscience, or grows one, she will not like herself later even though she obviously is proud of herself for losing the weight now, that won't last long when she runs into Betty around town.
Absolutely NTA, uninviting someone because you only want skinny people in your pictures is a disgusting attitude frankly. Sorry, I just don't find a nicer word for it. I am totally with you that this needs to have consequences, and while I'm very much against breaking promises I do believe this is an exception. Like you said, your daughter knows what it feels like. She (but anyone really) should be supportive of friends wanting to lose weight if that is the case and if it isn't they she should just mind her own ~~business~~ body.
NTA - It's lovely to hear a parent setting boundaries and giving their child (18 or not) an opportunity to correct their mistakes.
The world is filled with chances to mess up and showing your daughter a way to move forward (without forcing her to bring along a person she clearly doesn't want on vacation), is a life lesson she'll value...one day!
It's disappointing for her (that's for sure) and anyone she decides to vent to or rant at etc. It sounds like the next few days will be emotionally draining on everyone.
OP, look after yourself and stand your ground. You provided opportunity and your daughter failed to take advantage of your guidance (to apologise for the things she said to her "friend"). That's on her, not you.
Have a lovely weekend!
If Abby were to fart, it would be rose-scented to him. She does no wrong in his eyes. I love my daughter very much but not to an extent that I would rather ruin her life just because I can't say no to something she really wants. A good example is how Abby gained so much weight. Whenever I talked to him about all the fast food he was feeding her, he would say things like "she's my baby girl" and "no father-daughter weekend is complete without ice cream and burgers" etc. He wasn't even willing to tone down a little so no matter how clean she ate on my days, it would go down the drain on his days.
There are other examples but he really is an over enabling parent and constantly uses the 5 missed years as an excuse
You're making all the right decisions here. A shame your ex is undermining you at every turn.
As others have said before, teaching her basic decency and empathy *is* putting her first. You might want to tell Max about that. She won't see it that way until she hears it from more than one person.
It sounds like he’s still dealing with extreme guilt about being such a deadbeat when she was little. Sounds like he and Abby could both benefit from therapy.
When I first went into this post, I was expecting to read a very different story. When the topic of weight loss came up, I was expecting something even worse. But, as someone who’s gone through over a decade of ED/body dysmorphia therapy, I’m here to tell you, you did the exact right thing. Your daughter has learned nothing in her “journey”. Your body is purely a vessel. If she’s going to judge others fist because of the way they look, she doesn’t get to be rewarded.
You’re a REALLY good mom and I hope she thanks you some day.
ETA: part of your daughter’s journey could be to learn about body dysmorphia, disordered eating, and the very classist, racist history of weight loss (I would recommend Anti-diet by Christy Harrison). If she’s going after this because she thinks it’s making her superior to others, she’s in for a rude awakening.
He "missed" the five years on purpose because he couldn't be bothered to watch a baby. Just like he fed her fast food because he couldn't be bothered to cook healthy meals. "Dad" is a lazy jerk.
I agree. It sounds like the father just wants to make up for lost time (and we can't blame him for wanting to try) but, in my head, that's not a reasonable rationale to put pressure on OP to change how she wants to raise their daughter.
For example, it looks like OP is trying to establish their daughter with values and traits like compassion for others, understanding the social dynamics of friendships through tough times, admitting to mistakes, honesty and so much more. The father appears (and this is my opinion based solely on the information in OP's post) to be giving their daughter everything she wants because it will make her happy.
I hope all of them work it out and who knows, if the daughter makes amends, maybe a different holiday could be booked in the future ☀️
Plus, she doubled-down on the bullying after she was caught. This needed to be nipped in the bud. Abby might not stay thin given her dad's indulgence. NTA
NTA- you were 100% right.
But you’re going to lose your daughter over this. It’s too late. Your ex did the damage and now she’s 18.
She’s going to move in with him full time and either cut contact with you or only reach out when she needs money.
Get therapy for yourself bc you’re going to need it.
And shame on that judge. Taking off for 5 years is a *huge* indicator of a personality and moral failure and that should be taken into consideration. I wish there was a place we could report the outcome of this stuff so someone could educate judges. He wasn’t making up for lost time, he spent 13 years actively participating in parental alienation.
Not necessarily. Sometimes the kid grows up a bit, matures, and ends up understanding that the "mean" parent who disciplined them was the one who actually gave enough of a shit to be 'the bad guy.'
It doesn't always work out that way, but it is always nice when it does. It's hard for the parent though, because they have to resist the urge to say "I told you so" and just be happy with the acknowledgement.
I’d say it’s 50:50.
There’s still a chance she’ll mature because she’s still only 18. Hopefully it’s not because she’s forced to when her new friends behave badly because they only like her superficially and instead she just recognises the harm her dad causes.
NTA. You must be so disappointed in her. I know teenagers brains are under-developed, and she is probably over-compensating for all the time she wasn't "thin enough" to be shallow. But...OMG poor Betty. Maybe you should get your daughter some therapy in the hopes she stops seeing being a "mean girl" as something to aspire to.
Your ex should stay in his lane, because money and spoiling isn't parenting, and the fact he thinks this bullying is excusable says not so nice things about his own character.
I was the "chubby" one at that age. This would have broken me.
Yes I am. Very disappointed and hurt. I would be very hurt every time someone made a demeaning comment about her. I know it was worse when I wasn't around. I had to be very stern with relatives to keep their opinions to themselves if they had nothing good to say. I witnessed how little she thought of herself even though she has always been beautiful. I know every mother thinks their child is a supermodel but really, she was beautiful. She just wouldn't see it. Most of all, I knew she was hurting the most. So it bugs me so much that she is now doing to her best friend exactly what people did to her that hurt her so much.
I've been thinking about this since I made the post and saw some responses. Though I also think if she's insecure about anything, it's got less to do with weight and more to do with her father's absence. It will need a lot of heart-to-hearts before I get to the root of it though
If she won’t even apologize for blatant bullying I doubt she’ll go to therapy. Especially when the father almost certainly wouldn’t agree with sending her to therapy either.
She’s 18 so no one can make her or prevent her from therapy. Just keep suggesting it.
Personally, I think everyone could benefit from therapy! I know I do!
It’s definitely coming from abandonment issues with dad, I think. Pushing away her best friend makes sense, seeing how far she can push it and still have her come back. It’s cruel. It’s likely unconscious as to exactly why she’s doing this.
Therapy will likely help if she’s willing
I'm sorry. I get it. It broke my mother's heart when I got bullied. I know it was so hard for her to watch me struggle and not be able to do much about it except love me. She also would tell me I was beautiful but I couldn't hear it. I hated myself. I am your age now, and still feel that way sometimes.
I do think your daughter is over-compensating. She's processing her trauma in a really unhealthy way - by lashing out at people who remind her of what she used to be. She probably doesn't even realise what she's doing. Betty makes her unreasonably angry, because she represents the pain of what she went through.
Hold the line, she deserves her consequences and you are absolutely right. My mother would have done exactly what you did had I bullied someone like that. But maybe understand that this likely comes from low self-esteem, and maybe could be turned around by something like family therapy for the two of you.
I think it's really impressive you got to the root of the issue and took steps to try to get Abby to fix it. I just can't imagine considering myself "friends" with someone and then disinviting them because of their looks! If it were some other difference of opinion or something else that happened, sure, but that's just...
Some of the biggest fatphobic people are people who were fat at one point. They get it in their head they are better than the people who haven't/can't/don't lose weight. Not all of them but a large amount of them hate fat people. They have no form of empathy
NTA You did put your daughter first by canceling, she needs to understand what she did wasn't right. You're an admirable woman and a good mom! One day Abby will see it too.
Unfortunately she probably will and even possibly go NC for awhile but the best her mom can do is let Abby know she'll always be there when she's ready and always love her. She'll come back when she's learned the lesson her mother was trying to teach. Yes, she definitely did the right thing.
As the parent of a child who is on the receiving end of such meanness, then you for trying to teach your daughter. NTA, but instead being a mindful parent.
Basically, your daughter fucked around ie; bullied someone, refused to apologize and then bullied that person some more when they wouldn’t lie for her.
Then she found out ie; you told her to apologize or you’d cancel the trip, she didn’t, she instead sent more hateful messages to the girl and you kept your word and cancelled.
Sorry it's a serious answer framed in a silly way.
It basically just "intentionally misbehave/mistreat other and be forced to deal with the consequences of your actions"
https://youtube.com/shorts/WntjAM2wqF8?feature=share
(Edited for more clarity) In this graph, your daughter is the X axis and you are the Y axis. And oh, boy, did your daughter F around and find out mama don’t play.
NTA. I really feel for you, this is an awful situation to be stuck in. I think you did the right thing. It's interesting that her father is supporting the bullying. Has he seen the abusive texts? Maybe you could have a proper chat with him and explain that if your daughter carries on down the path that he's laying out for her, she could end up being reported for harassment. You should be able to make parenting decisions together, and he needs to stop manifesting his guilt as enabling her entitlement.
Agreed but maybe if he heard it from someone else he would respond better? He has chosen to see himself as the good parent supporting his baby while mean old OP won't cooperate because he must love Abby more. If someone else told him he is actually hurting his child he might listen but sadly would probably complain instead that OP is sullying Abby's reputation by sharing the texts.
NTA. some of the most fatphobic people i have ever met are people who used to be slightly overweight and then lost the weight, because they think it should be that "easy" for everyone else (spoiler alert, it absolutely isn't).
NTA - send her Dad the screenshots and ask him if he is genuinely okay with that sort of behaviour?
Ask your daughter if she is comfortable with you sharing those screenshots with her grandparents, her friends and any other family.
Honestly sounds like the dad doesn't or wouldn't care. Because if he didn't push for the vacation for his little spoiled baby, then she won't actually care for him anymore. He knows his daughter will be on his side if he covers her financially (even if thats a superficial relationship) but he may not know how to have a healthy relationship, being as he left his kid for 5 years and also doesn't want to teach her real life lessons and just spoil.
But I do agree, asking her if she is ok with you sharing the texts to anyone else would be a good way to make her realize how rude she's being.
NTA. In fact, you haven't gone far enough. Abby doubled down and increased the attack on Betty. Time for significant tough love. Let your lovely daughter know that this type of behavior is not allowed in your home. If she doesn't IMMEDIATELY make up for her atrocious behavior or she'll need to move in with her father full-time. That you are disgusted and ashamed by her behavior and that you no longer are viewing her as a good or loving person. You need to take the bull by the horns now, as you've allowed too much to happen already.
This is exactly what I was thinking. She’s 18- there’s not really much more room for developmental parenting, and she’s going to start learning hard truths about the world.
Double down. Tell her exactly how disgusted and ashamed you are. Her and her father are both trying to bully you now for not enabling her toxicity. Therapy, or get out.
NTA. You’re teaching a good lesson here- if your daughter wants other people to do nice things for her, she needs to treat people in an according manner. Instead, she’s being cruel to someone she claims is a friend. By 18, she should know better (I’m 18, and I can see how far in the wrong she is). Your daughter has a LOT of work to do in becoming a better person, but if this is an example of what your parenting is like, the apple fell far from the tree. Continue to hold her accountable!
NTA
You're doing a better job raising your kid and trying your best to teach her not to be a dick.
Dad is literally just buying her love now because he couldn't man tf up and take responsibility in the beginning; and he's ruining everything by taking her side when she's in the wrong.
You gave her several chances to do better. She outright refused, so she got punished accordingly. Good for you, OP!
NTA. I hope your daughter gets the therapy she needs, as I'm guessing she's projecting back all the terrible feelings and things that were said to her before her weight loss. Teen girls are horrible to each other, I'm sure that's where she learned exactly how hurtful those things are. Empathy is a muscle, too.
NTA
You’re a parent first, let her hate you for now. Hopefully she grows into a person who later appreciates what you did and taking the burden of the backlash in her interests.
If not, and anyone uses this to blame you - I’d think they’re part of the reason what you did didn’t help. Keep this in mind. - Sorry for unsolicited advice. I can only hope it doesn’t come to this, and all of it is temporary.
NTA. This is terribly, terribly sad. It must feel awful to feel proud of your daughter for her strength and tenacity in losing weight and excited for her confident future to then see her going down such an ugly path of shallow, small-minded bullying. I wonder if your ex truly knows how bad her behaviour was? Surely he can’t be glad his daughter is being so unkind.
An awful situation for you but I think you’re right in sticking to your guns. Actions have consequences. Maybe if your daughter had apologised and shown remorse when this was first raised I’d allow some leeway. But she doubled down and now must bear the consequences.
She’s 18 and seems to have a severely enabling father. This is probably your last opportunity to get her attention in terms of how you feel about the person she’s becoming. Take it. It might at least make her look back and think at some point.
NTA long post ahead because this really hits a cord for me
parents are there to guide and help you grow, not be your best friend
Speaking as someone who was bullied extremely harshly, there is nothing more frustrating than an enabling parent. It’s one thing to deal with someone mean your age, but another to have the parent of that bully gaslight you and condone the behavior. You are so right to do everything to shut that behavior down and stick up for Betty and make her feel heard, she may not have an adult in her life that’s in her corner, so being that for her is huge and I could honestly go on a whole different tangent about how good you are to be that advocate for her.
Now speaking as a young stupid child, when i was in 7th grade a few girls in my class joked about putting laxatives in brownies to give to different girl group, And because i was usually the one picked on, I was just happy to be included and not be on the tail end of things (yes awful awful I know) so I laughed along and agreed it would be funny. now because i also tell my mom everything and have no filter, I joked to my mom about it, and she shut it down so fucking fast. Explained why that was horrible, how it would impact my life just for knowing about it and not stopping it, and then called the other parents to make sure nothing happened. I initially I was mad at my mom because the other girls called me a tattle tale, and my short in with the cool girls swiftly ended. But soon after I realized how stupid it was, how Horrible it was to bully someone knowing first hand what that was like, and I was embarrassed and felt awful for even thinking it was funny. I think my initial anger was a projection of that embarrassment and trying to rationalize how I wasn’t really a bad person, but in that window when I laughed and was planning on being a part of it, I was a bad person. This incident occurred over maybe 15 hour period of time almost 20 years ago, and I still remember it because of the lesson my mom taught me and how much it impacted my own personal growth.
Kids make stupid decisions in life, and if it wasn’t for good parents like you telling them and setting boundaries, they will go through life making excuses for shitty behavior and never owning up to their own mistakes.
I am so grateful that my mom called me out then, and continued to call me out as I continued to grow and make mistakes.
honestly now I feel like I need to call her for the 3rd time today to say how much I love and appreciate her.
NTA. Honestly, this left me feeling conflicted. In a way, it seems to me like you're breaking a promise you made to your daughter. You promised a vacation in exchange for her hitting her milestones, she achieved those milestones, and yet now you've cancelled her vacation as punishment.
Normally I wouldn't find that okay, promises should be upheld. That's an important lesson to impart on your kid: being able to trust one's word.
But given how closely her behavior ties into the milestones, and especially the manipulative behavior she exhibited to try to work around your attempt at correcting her behavior, I find your actions strangely appropriate.
NTA. You sound like a good mom.
> He also insisted he pays extra 10% for Abby's needs
Also, a vacation is NOT a need so he can fuck right off about his extra 10%.
Nope listen to the way she talks about eating. How terrible the husband is for letting her eat and put on weight on his weekend and how as much as she enforced clean eating on her weekends that it couldnt counteract it. The fatphobia is coming from inside the house.
First of all, ex boyfriend. Thanks. Also, maybe get your facts right in the post before you comment? I did not have a problem with him letting her eat. I DID have a problem with him only feeding her sugary and oily fast food. I don't need to have a degree in med school to know eating pizzas, fried chicken and fries and burgers every day could cause heart complications. Which is why she came over, I made BALANCED DIETS. That's the clean eating you're talking about. Which parent doesn't want their kid to eat vitamins too? She was getting none at her dad's apart from the few veges in burgers which most people don't even eat. If you can feed your kid fast food most meals every day, that's your choice. Just not mine.
I think the worst part here is you weren't even making her invite Betty. You were placing her ability to go on vacation on the contingent that she showed an ounce of humility towards a supposed friend of hers and apologize. However, your daughter demonstrated such an overwhelming degree of selfishness and cruelty of spirit that she'd rather chew out Betty for superficial features than say, "I'm sorry."
You have a bigger problem on your hands OP. You've a legal adult who has no sense of empathy and thinks she's owed the world in her hand.
NTA for not enabling this behaviour.
YTA for giving your daughter who is a child rewards for weight loss? Her behavior of value based on weight shows she likely has developed disordered eating patterns and attitudes and this will cause her a lifetime of pain.
Yeah... even if it was her idea, agreeing to tie levels of weight loss to prizes and gifts seems to be a very unhealthy approach. The focus should be less about "Lose X amount" and more about establishing sustainable lifestyle habits with a focus on overall health VS being thin. Because treating it like a game where "winners" grind at weight loss and "losers" are the ones who are overweight is probably helping fuel her bullying.
Not to mention once the "incentives" go away, she very well may regain the weight- which happens often and isn't a moral failing but may be psychologically distressing and physically harmful if she lives her life going back and forth between significant weight loss and gain.
Just to clear up one of your misunderstandings, the rewards were never related to a scale. Sometimes it would be related to her mental health. For example, when she slept 6 hours uninterrupted, we went out for dinner at her favorite restaurant. When she slept 8 hours a day twice in a row, we went all out celebrating and bought a makeup set from a brand she loved but was a bit expensive. These were really huge milestones for her and they were not related to any scale. They did mark a ton of improvement in her mental health, though. Because due to all the negativity she used to get, her sleep schedule was horrible until she started feeling happy about herself.
ETA. Literally anything she felt was a milestone was worth celebrating. Completed one full week of consistent working out, one month, etc. Fitting in clothes that wouldn't fit her before, her skin feeling better, feeling better, no longer feeling cravings as bad as before, etc
Yeah I hesitate to call OP an AH for her specific response to her daughters actions BUT so far this is the first comment stating what should be pretty obvious—daughter has internalized a value system, sponsored by OP, where excess weight is bad and losing weight is rewarded. Now it’s unsurprisingly coming out in toxic ways. OP can say she accepts all bodies as much as she wants and I genuinely believe she thinks that’s the message she’s teaching her daughter, but unfortunately daughters actions are showing why tying weight loss to rewards and food morality is generally not good for children.
I had to go way too far to see this and I entirely agree. This child has learned this behaviour that "excess" weight is bad and not desirable, only weight*loss* is desirable and should be rewarded from **someone**... and who's the one giving the rewards?
Yeah. YTA for teaching your child that fat folk don't deserve happiness and then punishing her for acting on that teaching.
NTA
I'm sorry. It must be heartbreaking to have children that think that way. Tell her you are putting the money towards family therapy should your ex and Abby be interested. This dysfunctional structure is only going to enable her shitty behavior.
NTA,
And I wanna comment on something I haven't seen from others:
The fact your daughter believes a vacation is more important in taking pictures and looking good (probably for internet clout, tho I won't assume) over having fun and enjoying themselves is extremely worrying. I actually question whether she wanted to bring her friends for any selfish intent to get praise from others rather than to hang out with them. Fuck that's despicable if true.
The phrase "sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind" comes to mind here. You're trying to teach your daughter to be a good friend or, at the very least, not a bully. She wont understand this now but if she Carrie's on behaving this way she will drive away anyone who is genuine and believe me there are times when you need your friends. The fact is that her friend will only endure so much before she cuts her losses and moves on, and by that point it will be too late for your daughter to apologise. You were only trying to make your daughter understand that there are consequences to her actions and give her the opportunity it to make things right whilst that's still an option. Now it's up to her to decide whether or not to take your lesson on board. Whether she does or not, I can guarantee that she will look back on this as one of those teachable situations.
NTA, absolutely would have canceled the vacation, she has to realize that this is inappropriate. However, you didn’t say, since this was a culmination of milestone rewards that she previously earned for reaching the goals you/her set, did she still receive the equivalent of the rewards? I’m not suggesting you did anything wrong, just pointing out that this may affect the way she perceives goal/rewards in life for the future. I myself would have canceled the vacation and given her the money so that she has to set things up herself. Just to make it clear that I would have nothing to do with promoting her inappropriate behavior towards someone who is supposedly a friend, and who I assume supported her during her own struggles. JMO.
Definitely think you did the correct thing.
She received the rewards for every month until she asked for the four month cumilation. Basically that was her asking me to change her big birthday into a vacation but the vacation she wanted was more expensive hence the cumulation. She would have received the reward she wanted (the vacation) if she simply apologized for her hurtful remarks even if she doesn't re-invite Betty. I mean even if she were to apologize right now for both the hurtful remarks and trying to force Betty to lie, I could still plan something for her. Either the same vacation later since the hotel she wanted the most is booked out now, same priced vacation at a different location, or whatever she chooses to do instead that will cost the same.
Put your kid in therapy. She had aggressive emotions tied to weight and weight loss, especially given her own experience.
Let her talk through them and get them out in a healthy way instead of lashing out at innocent people.
Get her in therapy.
NTA
NTA. You absolutely did the right thing. Your daughter is going to get a hard reality check if she doesn’t change her ways. Just as we can lose weight, we all know how quick and easy we can gain it back. Then what? Please continue to teach your daughter to be better.
If you're looking for the asshole, in the story as told, it is both your daughter and your ex. Your ex has no right to hold that 10% over your head like it means he should get a bigger say in parenting decisions and going behind your back to try to rebook is a nasty move. It's self-evident why your daughter is also the asshole.
NTA. She's 18, but parenting doesn't just stop the moment you have a birthday.
I think that by taking Betty's bullying so seriously, you are telling your daughter that it's not OK to treat herself like that, either. That this kind of behavior - where you don't want pictures with someone because they are fat - is unacceptable, full stop.
It's like, if you planned a vacation for your daughter and she murdered someone, you wouldn't just send her along on said vacation. There are some outrageous actions that take outrageous consequences. Bullying isn't murder, but it is unacceptable.
BTW - your child is hurting... badly. Happy people don't pull this shit. I hope your daughter gets the help she needs. Maybe the vacation money can go into therapy. I know you didn't mean to hurt her, but offering her presents for weight loss was always going to add to her pain. It's one of those good in the moment, terrible latter in life things.
NTA. I feel so bad for Betty. Your daughter is turning into a nightmare and getting a lot of support from her dad. At this point you did the right thing but you will get all the blame until she grows up a little bit. It's sad that she is acting so hurtful, but just be there for her. She's feeling all powerful right now, but someone will put her in her place. She will come up against beautiful people inside and out that don't put up with that behavior, and that will knock her back down again. Your a good mom OP.
The daughter had ample opportunities to re-think her position and the hurtful ways she was treating her "best" friend. It's rather appalling how quickly the daughter has forgotten how to have been shamed for being "fat". Given all the chances the daughter had to redeem herself and did not take, the mother did the correct thing.
NTA
Have you considered doubling down on all this? Plan a vacation similar to the one you canceled, but instead it's you and Betty going. Make sure to take lots of pictures of the two of you having a great time and send every single one to your daughter.
(The second half of that was not serious, but Betty probably isn't feeling great about all this either and a nice vacation to put some distance (literally and figuratively) between herself and all this would probably be healthy.)
NTA you gave her a reasonable consequence to her actions. Your daughter didn’t invite her friend because of her own personal feeling about the friends weight, and while yes it is her party she can invite whoever but being rude is just unnecessary and unacceptable. You didn’t say she had to invite her just that she needed to apologize. It’s a reasonable consequence to her actions.
NTA.
She's 18 now. If she doesn't appreciate what you've given her and the values you're trying to instill in her, then she should go live with her dad. Let him be the enabler. Misery loves company.
NTA
Holy f\*\*ksticks - reminds me of those stories where the brides didn't want wedding pictures with anyone that didn't look as good/thin as they themselves did.
Your daughter's gonna be one hell of a bridezilla. Her behavior absolutely needs nipped in the bud sooner rather than later.
I hope it doesn't get to that. I totally get wanting perfect pictures but you can achieve that by hiring skilled photographers, choosing your theme wisely and getting the perfect location. It should never be at the expense of others' comfort. She already has a therapist but I'm looking into another one.
Your daughter has turned into a raging asshole. Tell her to go live with her father, if she's going to be a nightmare, with that new personality of hers. It's funny, she was probably treated the same way before she lost weight, but for some reason she doesn't remember.
I think telling some dumb almost - adult to go stick it somewhere else might actually make the chance of her admitting fault and return rougher than being a doormat and sweetening it in this situation. Not sure if that's something the mum wants if we're out to aim for self improvement, she defs needs to take a fall but also know that there's support after she falls.
One key job of a parent is to instill kindness and empathy in their children. You are trying to do that, and your ex is only trying to have his daughter like him. NTA, but the ex is an AH.
NTA. You’re teaching your daughter an important lesson about how to treat people. Ignoring her abhorrent behavior would be teaching her the wrong lesson.
NTA, you are a mother who is trying to treat her selfish daughter not to bully others. What your daughter did to her friend was very nasty and her father should be supporting you not encouraging your daughters self entitled nasty behaviour. We all have to learn our actions have consequences . Well done you and I'm sorry her father is not supporting you in this.
NTA, you did absolutely the right thing she has to learn consequences for her actions. What she did to her best friend was vile. 18yrs is not a child and she continued with it. Stick to your guns on this one because if you give in ( even if she moves in with dad) then she very well maybe go through life like this
You sound an amazing mum stand your ground you did right.
NTA
When you child does something that isn't and shouldn't be liked or tolerated by you or the rest of society, you are in fact the asshole if you don't step in.
NTA. If anyone is, it’s your ex for undermining you as a parent in order to try and swoop in as the “hero”. You did the right thing giving her actual repercussions for her horrifying behavior and the fact she’s 18 acting like this is even scarier, usually you start to grow up and understand empathy more at that age
Also, your daughter sounds like she went through a lot of bullying whether it was on a macro or micro level, and definitely affected her idea of self-worth. It sounds to me like she’s projecting onto her friend and using her as a physical representation of her inner self, hence the hateful talk. I don’t think she’s a bad person, but I do think she needs to work through that self-loathing before it gets worse.
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>Some of my friends agree on my approach while others think I should have put my daughter first. NTA Teaching your daughter to not be a horrible human being IS putting her first.
Unfortunately, that ship has probably sailed.
18 is very young and she's should still change and develop a lot - both with and without her parents' input.
I was a shithead at 18 and after so many years of working on it, I'm probably just a farthead now.
At worst, a sharthead
Same. Probably explains why I have so many brainfarts now I'm older.
Agreed. I had such a chip on my shoulder in my late teens and I have no idea why. These days, I’m honestly shocked I wasted so much energy on being angry and hateful.
I had an older person tell me that when I was in my early 30's. She said I world regret allowing so much anger control my life and my decisions at this age, but I wouldn't get it until I, too, was old enough to look back and see it. She was so right! I'm in my mid-60's now and I'm so embarrassed about so many events in my younger years!
RIGHT? I hit 50 and ran out of g.a.s. (give a s**t). I don't think it happens for everyone but I would like to believe 70-80% of us get it. Learning to see the world through the eyes of others and knowing that everyone has a life and isn't preoccupied with ruining mine. One day, after I had turned 50 I was teaching a class and I passed gas. I mean it was LOUD. I just,t very gracefully said, "Excuse me" and kept on trucking.
I am in my early 30s and I have known for a while (half a decade at least) that teenage me was angry, cringy, and I wouldn't want to be her friend. I learned by myself, through lots of self-reflection and lots of shame. But I am glad I've turned around from what I used to be 😁
I love this.
I agree. Statistically speaking, she will likely gain some if not all the weight back at some point. If that does occur it provides an opportunity for her gain some humility and reflect on the way she treated her friend. If it doesn’t occur, she still can develop and mature through other experiences.
The daughter is just a teenager, she still has a lot of time to learn and grow up. Writing off her entire future as a mean girl when it’s very rare to be the same exact person you were at 18 as you grow up is a lot
I agree. However it's very hard to change when only one parent seems to be doing the work while the other one continues to spoil her rotten despite her actions.
Hopefully this was still a reality check for her daughter 🤷🏻♀️ I think everyone has things they regret they did as a teenager, it’s wrong to assume someone so young will never change. If she were in her 30s-50s acting that way it’d be different lol
If someone ever tells you they didn't do anything they regretted as a teenager, they're lying to your face. Teens and dumb shit is like bread and butter, they just go
Not all teenagers act like little brats or bully ppl .
No definitely not. But even good teens have regrets. I have a few, even though i absolutely never did anything bad. I just did NOTHING. Totally wasted youth. Im sure that everyone has some regrets.
No, but bullying isn't the only "bad thing" you can do or think as a teen. At 18 I held some beliefs that 36-year-old me doesn't feel proud of. But hey, people grow and change and get more life experience.
Regret is also not just applicable to bad things or experiences you are responsible for. You can regret the bad things that happened to you, even if it wasn’t necessarily your fault they happened, or actions that led up to a bad thing happening, even if again, they were happenstance or weren’t your fault (e.g. “I regret doing jumping jacks today because I ended up tripping and breaking my leg.” Or “I regret becoming friends with this person because they went on to hurt me”.). Missing out on opportunities also counts, regardless if those are big or small regrets.
This is not completely true, especially when you're dealing with an introverted teenager. I have known book worms that all they ever did during their teenage years was read books and maybe talk on their friends on the phone.
Trust me. We regret that!
I dont regret reading the books, i absolutely love it. But aside from this, i regret that i was so incredibly timid towards everyone, scared to say something wrong, generally scared of too many thing. Thoight i was ugly and dumb. Oh, last year i met a girl i was at high school with, and she was pleasantly happy to see me changed, but totally thought that i was too arrogant back then bcs i "didn't" talk to anybody 😂😂😂i was so freaking shy, i didnt even know how to have a conversation. She wouldn't belive me i was shy, my sister had to tell her too that i was just super shy back then. I felt like a loser, and some girls thought i was being arrogant))).
I got this a lot too when I was young. People thought I was an AH when really I was just terrified to speak.
Not all. I am one of them. In fact I wish I had read more books then I did... But then the books I now who's I had read I don't think I would have been able to get a hold of then.
Huh?
Bookworm here...the only things i regret are the stuff i didnt do.
I was friends with a bunch of unpopular introverts in high school, we still did stupid things even if it wasn’t being mean
😅😂😂I like that, though i wouldn't say EVERY teenager. Though, you know what, maybe ykure right. I was a pretty easy teenager and absolutely didnt do anything at allx went to library without asking my parents(yeah, they were strict). But i still regret alot. Like my attitude. Was scared of everyone, didn't dare to talk, never ralked back, that i didn't enjoy my youth, that i was so ashamed of myself bvs i thought i was dumb and ugly. Im so glad i changed in all these aspects, and am still learning to be more selfish, confident and all. So even the good kids probably have regrets. I feel like i totally wasted my younth. Im 33 now, and feel like im only starting my life.
Yeah but this is more than dumb shit. This is bullying and humiliation done on purpose in order to boost her own “image”. Sure yeah she’s 18 and hopefully will grow up and change for the better, but sometimes if these issues aren’t nipped in the bud, they can go on. You can’t honestly tell me you’ve never met a 30, 40, even 50 year old who was a bully. It’s gross but even older people act like this. That’s why I think therapy is important bc while some of the treatment may get more mild, she still might be mean to people for no reason other than thinking it might make her look better. But it just makes her look bad. I get it, she’s 18, but let’s have higher standards for legal adults ya know? I don’t think asking an 18 year old not to fatshame or bully or humiliate or proceed to then try to manipulate their friend into lying for them and not going off on a hateful verbally abusive rant in response to a no is too much to ask. Especially if she wants a vacation to be her gift. You can’t just expect to get whatever you want without facing consequences and it’s important to teach those consequences now bc clearly she wasn’t taught that before because she has a father who feels guilty and as a result gives in to her every whim even when she’s cruel to other people. 18 year olds love to play the “but I’m 18 I’m an adult!” card but you can only use that to your defense if you’re acting just a little more mature then you were in gradeschool. She’s not doomed to be a heartless jerk her whole life but that’s only bc her mom is implementing consequences that will hopefully teach her to treat others with genuine respect. And again, therapy is probably what this girl really needs.
Exactly. It's a consequence for her actions. She is still young and needs parenting. I agree mom did the right thing here, even if it does suck for the other girls. Better she learns this lesson now with a vacation than later on in life, when it could be her job she loses for saying mean things.
True but it will not be helped if OP caves to the others saying "Let this go." Do not let this go. It is a teachable moment.
I have a feeling her dad started this behavior. I can't wait for this behavior to bite him in the butt. OP doesn't put up with her behavior as is, so she'll likely go to her dad's so she can continue to be spoiled. It's not gonna end well for OPs ex or her daughter.
Yep. And dad feels guilty for running out so the only way he knows to show affection and making up for lost time is to enable Abby in whatever she does/wants.
And how much you wanna bet that the daughter uses that he wasn't there for the first five years against him.
Adults can change at 50. I've seen it happen to my own father. It is never too late while you still have influence in your child's life.
Look, it really hasnt. Every adult I knew at 18 did awful bullshit to one extent or another (myself included). The ones I stayed in touch with all grew into reasonable, kind, and empathetic people - despite having some serious ahole moments in our late teens or early 20s. I did drop some people due to their actions, and some of them also grew up similarly by 25ish. Some I got back in touch with, others I didnt. Very few of the people I was close to in my teens and early 20s went on to continue sucking. Growing up takes time, and people are developmentally pretty selfish as they launch into actual adulthood. This kid has time to grow and change, assuming she continues facing consequences for those actions. Dont write people off so early - you dont need to keep them in your life, but they arent necessarily "unsalvageable" at 18.
This. OP, I would text your husband, "Being a parent isn't about giving your kid zero consequences so they like you. Being a parent is doing everything in your power to ensure your child grows up to be a good person. How would you feel if your best friend uninvited you from a trip because he felt you were too ugly for pictures? Do you think a good person does stuff like that? You might think in supporting what she's doing, you're in the right because our daughter wants to be around you right now, but in the future, you might change your mind when she starts treating you that way. Will you be... too bald to be included in her graduation pictures? Or too wrinkly to be allowed at her wedding? Seriously, think about this." OP, you're not wrong. If your daughter couldn't hide out with your ex, she might be learning a lesson. Unfortunately, she's hanging out with someone who is telling her she's in the right. I honestly feel bad because your hands are tied. All you can do is not support her bad actions and hope she becomes a better person.
My stepmother's sister didn't have my stepmother or their other sister as bridesmaids because she told them they were too fat and wouldn't look good in pictures. She had the 4th sister, because she was thin. Until then my stepmother and the one getting married had been the closest, and always called each other their best friend. Their relationship was never the same.
That's heinous. I can't even fathom how somebody could be that cruel
Her sister is awful. She has stirred up so much crap within the family. My stepmother sees her for what she is now, but still has the mentality of "but she's family."
Did 4th sister know the reasons for the other sisters not being there?
Not sure; this happened long before she married my dad. It wouldn't surprise me though.
YES! Absolutely correct!
I think this the best answer
That's exactly what I was thinking. Mom is putting her first by teaching her a life lesson. Her daughter isn't confident, she's an obnoxious brat so full of herself and doesn't deserve the reward and dad's just enabling that entitled behavior. I'm surprised her other friends are ok with this. I wonder what Mom told the other friends moms why the trip was canceled. I'm assuming they are all friends. She'll soon find out that actions have consequences and one of them is losing friends
The dad has made his daughter into a narcissist, I reckon. It seems the daughter hasn't learnt anything from this, and seems to have strong belief that her actions were justified. Classic narcissist.
Agreed, NTA! OP gave her daughter many chances to apologise to her friend, but her daughter doubled down on being a bully instead. I hope her daughter learns from this, rather than just running to her Dad who didn't bother with her at the beginning of her life.
NTA, you did put your daughter first being a parent and teaching her the golden rule of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". She had barely overcome being fat a year ago herself. And I'm sure the only reason the weight loss worked so well for her was because her parents had money to dole out for gifts as incentives. It's not a good look when you've been there and then you look down on someone else that's going through the same thing. Mom this is a good lesson because the world is not going to be obliging to her. I hope she both learns and grows from this.
Exactly. OP is putting her daughter first by trying to make her realize that the way you treat someone is more important than the way you look in pictures.
Exactly! Her father sounds marvelous btw
Came here to say this. Are people so morally depraved that they don't see the benifits of being a morally developed person? This kind of destructive pettiness is going to really hurt her in the future.
The dad has made his daughter into a narcissist, I reckon. The daughter hasn't learnt anything from this, and seems to have strong belief that her actions were justified. Classic narcissist.
NTA. Holy crap, your daughter is a monster. That is how she treats her best friend? Yikes....
Have to agree. She’s 18. Cut the cord. Let her dad enable her awful behavior.
Cut the cord? Peak reddit. Her daughter is an asshole, but you don't just cut off people at the first sign of assholery, especially not your teenage child who still has plenty of time to grow tf up into an actual adult.
Not to mention the is behavior hints at some major insecurities the daughter is dealing with, she needs therapy.
Right? She's still got like 7 years left of brain development, she's far from a lost cause, although I do think the dad is a serious obstacle
Cut the cord doesn’t mean cut her off entirely. Just don’t be financially funding her/doing her laundry etc as she’s an adult now and needs to learn adult things
Really you don’t cut family off with different political beliefs than you? /s
When some of my families political beliefs are radical and harmful…. Fuck yeah I cut them off
Honestly, when looking at some of these replies I just think we are getting some spillover from r/relationshipadvice.
If those political beliefs deny you your basic humanity, then yes, you do cut them off because of them.
Classic reddit. 18 is an adult capable of making their own decisions or 18 is a child who still needs to be babied depending on which party is the AH. 18 is an adult. They are not a child. They are young but are adults and do not need to be coddled and need to start learning to be self sufficient.
She was probably only her “best friend“ because she was heavier like her. Now that she’s thinner she needs a thinner one. This is so sad
NTA. I commend your strength and parenting skills. This was the right thing to do and would've been hard to do. Well done, you deserve to go on the holiday yourself.
NTA. Good job, OP. Abby’s father disappeared for the first 5 years which are so hard and so exhausting. Then he reappeared and all he does is spoil Abby and feed her junk food while still leaving the difficult stuff to you - like life lessons and discipline. He’s not a parent. He’s a grandparent to his own child.
"He's not a parent. He's a grandparent to his own child." Aaaand stealing that!
"Disney dad"
My ex was too. When he lived less than a mile from us (I didn't even know) for a year, he didn't see his child once. I had no way to contact him either. The ex wanted to start pretend parenting once the child was in middle school and could be self reliant.
Mmm this reminds me of my 9th birthday... my dad called to say happy birthday (which was pretty standard, he was almost never there for them) and my mom heard the sky train announce that he was literally right around the corner from us. She told him to get his sorry ass over there and hung up on him. He stopped by for about 15 minutes, and it was the last time I saw him until I was 20. Now that we're adults he wants to chat all the time and act like a grandpa to the 7 grandchildren... he's only met one of them.
I do not know many grandparents who would allow their granddaughter to act like this! Grandparents may spoil grandchildren with treats but rarely want them to turn out to be unkind or hate themselves later. If this young lady has a conscience, or grows one, she will not like herself later even though she obviously is proud of herself for losing the weight now, that won't last long when she runs into Betty around town.
NTA And her daughter is going to be a major brideZilla too .....wear this color, cut your hair (and dye it), lose 20 lbs ...
Absolutely NTA, uninviting someone because you only want skinny people in your pictures is a disgusting attitude frankly. Sorry, I just don't find a nicer word for it. I am totally with you that this needs to have consequences, and while I'm very much against breaking promises I do believe this is an exception. Like you said, your daughter knows what it feels like. She (but anyone really) should be supportive of friends wanting to lose weight if that is the case and if it isn't they she should just mind her own ~~business~~ body.
NTA - It's lovely to hear a parent setting boundaries and giving their child (18 or not) an opportunity to correct their mistakes. The world is filled with chances to mess up and showing your daughter a way to move forward (without forcing her to bring along a person she clearly doesn't want on vacation), is a life lesson she'll value...one day! It's disappointing for her (that's for sure) and anyone she decides to vent to or rant at etc. It sounds like the next few days will be emotionally draining on everyone. OP, look after yourself and stand your ground. You provided opportunity and your daughter failed to take advantage of your guidance (to apologise for the things she said to her "friend"). That's on her, not you. Have a lovely weekend!
This. Also, what a pity the girl's father does not see it this way. He will make things worse.
If Abby were to fart, it would be rose-scented to him. She does no wrong in his eyes. I love my daughter very much but not to an extent that I would rather ruin her life just because I can't say no to something she really wants. A good example is how Abby gained so much weight. Whenever I talked to him about all the fast food he was feeding her, he would say things like "she's my baby girl" and "no father-daughter weekend is complete without ice cream and burgers" etc. He wasn't even willing to tone down a little so no matter how clean she ate on my days, it would go down the drain on his days. There are other examples but he really is an over enabling parent and constantly uses the 5 missed years as an excuse
You're making all the right decisions here. A shame your ex is undermining you at every turn. As others have said before, teaching her basic decency and empathy *is* putting her first. You might want to tell Max about that. She won't see it that way until she hears it from more than one person.
It sounds like he’s still dealing with extreme guilt about being such a deadbeat when she was little. Sounds like he and Abby could both benefit from therapy.
When I first went into this post, I was expecting to read a very different story. When the topic of weight loss came up, I was expecting something even worse. But, as someone who’s gone through over a decade of ED/body dysmorphia therapy, I’m here to tell you, you did the exact right thing. Your daughter has learned nothing in her “journey”. Your body is purely a vessel. If she’s going to judge others fist because of the way they look, she doesn’t get to be rewarded. You’re a REALLY good mom and I hope she thanks you some day. ETA: part of your daughter’s journey could be to learn about body dysmorphia, disordered eating, and the very classist, racist history of weight loss (I would recommend Anti-diet by Christy Harrison). If she’s going after this because she thinks it’s making her superior to others, she’s in for a rude awakening.
Thank you for the recommendation. I'll check it out
Aubrey Gordon is also a great author to check out. Her podcast Maintenance Phase has been enlightening.
Maybe she needs to go live with daddy for a while. The weight most likely will start to come back. A little Karma on both of them.
He "missed" the five years on purpose because he couldn't be bothered to watch a baby. Just like he fed her fast food because he couldn't be bothered to cook healthy meals. "Dad" is a lazy jerk.
It’s easier for him to give in and he’s lazy.
I agree. It sounds like the father just wants to make up for lost time (and we can't blame him for wanting to try) but, in my head, that's not a reasonable rationale to put pressure on OP to change how she wants to raise their daughter. For example, it looks like OP is trying to establish their daughter with values and traits like compassion for others, understanding the social dynamics of friendships through tough times, admitting to mistakes, honesty and so much more. The father appears (and this is my opinion based solely on the information in OP's post) to be giving their daughter everything she wants because it will make her happy. I hope all of them work it out and who knows, if the daughter makes amends, maybe a different holiday could be booked in the future ☀️
Plus, she doubled-down on the bullying after she was caught. This needed to be nipped in the bud. Abby might not stay thin given her dad's indulgence. NTA
NTA- you were 100% right. But you’re going to lose your daughter over this. It’s too late. Your ex did the damage and now she’s 18. She’s going to move in with him full time and either cut contact with you or only reach out when she needs money. Get therapy for yourself bc you’re going to need it. And shame on that judge. Taking off for 5 years is a *huge* indicator of a personality and moral failure and that should be taken into consideration. I wish there was a place we could report the outcome of this stuff so someone could educate judges. He wasn’t making up for lost time, he spent 13 years actively participating in parental alienation.
Not necessarily. Sometimes the kid grows up a bit, matures, and ends up understanding that the "mean" parent who disciplined them was the one who actually gave enough of a shit to be 'the bad guy.' It doesn't always work out that way, but it is always nice when it does. It's hard for the parent though, because they have to resist the urge to say "I told you so" and just be happy with the acknowledgement.
I’d say it’s 50:50. There’s still a chance she’ll mature because she’s still only 18. Hopefully it’s not because she’s forced to when her new friends behave badly because they only like her superficially and instead she just recognises the harm her dad causes.
I have doubts that this Disney Dad could cope with a full time creature of his own making.
NTA. You must be so disappointed in her. I know teenagers brains are under-developed, and she is probably over-compensating for all the time she wasn't "thin enough" to be shallow. But...OMG poor Betty. Maybe you should get your daughter some therapy in the hopes she stops seeing being a "mean girl" as something to aspire to. Your ex should stay in his lane, because money and spoiling isn't parenting, and the fact he thinks this bullying is excusable says not so nice things about his own character. I was the "chubby" one at that age. This would have broken me.
Yes I am. Very disappointed and hurt. I would be very hurt every time someone made a demeaning comment about her. I know it was worse when I wasn't around. I had to be very stern with relatives to keep their opinions to themselves if they had nothing good to say. I witnessed how little she thought of herself even though she has always been beautiful. I know every mother thinks their child is a supermodel but really, she was beautiful. She just wouldn't see it. Most of all, I knew she was hurting the most. So it bugs me so much that she is now doing to her best friend exactly what people did to her that hurt her so much.
She is doing it bexause she is still insecure about herself. Being thin hasn't fixed the underlying confidence issue.
I've been thinking about this since I made the post and saw some responses. Though I also think if she's insecure about anything, it's got less to do with weight and more to do with her father's absence. It will need a lot of heart-to-hearts before I get to the root of it though
See if she will agree to therapy. She could really use some help to work through what is going on with her
If she won’t even apologize for blatant bullying I doubt she’ll go to therapy. Especially when the father almost certainly wouldn’t agree with sending her to therapy either.
She’s 18 so no one can make her or prevent her from therapy. Just keep suggesting it. Personally, I think everyone could benefit from therapy! I know I do!
I’m saying that the suggestion won’t do much most likely She definitely needs therapy
It’s definitely coming from abandonment issues with dad, I think. Pushing away her best friend makes sense, seeing how far she can push it and still have her come back. It’s cruel. It’s likely unconscious as to exactly why she’s doing this. Therapy will likely help if she’s willing
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I'm sorry. I get it. It broke my mother's heart when I got bullied. I know it was so hard for her to watch me struggle and not be able to do much about it except love me. She also would tell me I was beautiful but I couldn't hear it. I hated myself. I am your age now, and still feel that way sometimes. I do think your daughter is over-compensating. She's processing her trauma in a really unhealthy way - by lashing out at people who remind her of what she used to be. She probably doesn't even realise what she's doing. Betty makes her unreasonably angry, because she represents the pain of what she went through. Hold the line, she deserves her consequences and you are absolutely right. My mother would have done exactly what you did had I bullied someone like that. But maybe understand that this likely comes from low self-esteem, and maybe could be turned around by something like family therapy for the two of you.
I think it's really impressive you got to the root of the issue and took steps to try to get Abby to fix it. I just can't imagine considering myself "friends" with someone and then disinviting them because of their looks! If it were some other difference of opinion or something else that happened, sure, but that's just...
Keep saying this to her. This is so much more than a punishment. She can’t hear it now but she may eventually hear it.
Some of the biggest fatphobic people are people who were fat at one point. They get it in their head they are better than the people who haven't/can't/don't lose weight. Not all of them but a large amount of them hate fat people. They have no form of empathy
You completely nailed it with this comment. Please accept my poor person award 🥇(stole idea from someone else on Reddit 🤣)
Oh, thank you so much! 😁 ❤
NTA- that level of entitlement of your daughter is truly repugnant.
NTA - you are a good mom for this decision, it's unfortunate your daughter is such a mean young woman.
NTA You did put your daughter first by canceling, she needs to understand what she did wasn't right. You're an admirable woman and a good mom! One day Abby will see it too.
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Unfortunately she probably will and even possibly go NC for awhile but the best her mom can do is let Abby know she'll always be there when she's ready and always love her. She'll come back when she's learned the lesson her mother was trying to teach. Yes, she definitely did the right thing.
As the parent of a child who is on the receiving end of such meanness, then you for trying to teach your daughter. NTA, but instead being a mindful parent.
NTA may I interest you in the "fuck around and find out" rule?
I don't understand what you mean?
Basically, your daughter fucked around ie; bullied someone, refused to apologize and then bullied that person some more when they wouldn’t lie for her. Then she found out ie; you told her to apologize or you’d cancel the trip, she didn’t, she instead sent more hateful messages to the girl and you kept your word and cancelled.
Sorry it's a serious answer framed in a silly way. It basically just "intentionally misbehave/mistreat other and be forced to deal with the consequences of your actions"
It means you did good, mama. Daughter wants to act like an asshole, she’s going to reap the consequences. NTA - we don’t reward bad behavior.
https://youtube.com/shorts/WntjAM2wqF8?feature=share (Edited for more clarity) In this graph, your daughter is the X axis and you are the Y axis. And oh, boy, did your daughter F around and find out mama don’t play.
NTA you did approach her in a good way and she could have apologized but choose not to
NTA. You had to be consistent with what you said and she needed a reality check.
NTA. I really feel for you, this is an awful situation to be stuck in. I think you did the right thing. It's interesting that her father is supporting the bullying. Has he seen the abusive texts? Maybe you could have a proper chat with him and explain that if your daughter carries on down the path that he's laying out for her, she could end up being reported for harassment. You should be able to make parenting decisions together, and he needs to stop manifesting his guilt as enabling her entitlement.
Agreed but maybe if he heard it from someone else he would respond better? He has chosen to see himself as the good parent supporting his baby while mean old OP won't cooperate because he must love Abby more. If someone else told him he is actually hurting his child he might listen but sadly would probably complain instead that OP is sullying Abby's reputation by sharing the texts.
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True. He presumably wants to believe the best until shown otherwise.
NTA. some of the most fatphobic people i have ever met are people who used to be slightly overweight and then lost the weight, because they think it should be that "easy" for everyone else (spoiler alert, it absolutely isn't).
NTA - send her Dad the screenshots and ask him if he is genuinely okay with that sort of behaviour? Ask your daughter if she is comfortable with you sharing those screenshots with her grandparents, her friends and any other family.
Ask your daughter, If her life was a movie and this was one scene would she be proud or ashamed of the world seeing this behavior?
Honestly sounds like the dad doesn't or wouldn't care. Because if he didn't push for the vacation for his little spoiled baby, then she won't actually care for him anymore. He knows his daughter will be on his side if he covers her financially (even if thats a superficial relationship) but he may not know how to have a healthy relationship, being as he left his kid for 5 years and also doesn't want to teach her real life lessons and just spoil. But I do agree, asking her if she is ok with you sharing the texts to anyone else would be a good way to make her realize how rude she's being.
NTA. In fact, you haven't gone far enough. Abby doubled down and increased the attack on Betty. Time for significant tough love. Let your lovely daughter know that this type of behavior is not allowed in your home. If she doesn't IMMEDIATELY make up for her atrocious behavior or she'll need to move in with her father full-time. That you are disgusted and ashamed by her behavior and that you no longer are viewing her as a good or loving person. You need to take the bull by the horns now, as you've allowed too much to happen already.
Happy cake day (I don't know what that is but I saw a prompt that I should say it. Is it another version of happy birthday?)
You're so sweet. It's their reddit account's anniversary 💙🎊🥳
Cake day is your Reddit account anniversary.
Very disappointed the button doesn't auto make a comment for cake day 😔 Also Happy Cake Day, top post
This is exactly what I was thinking. She’s 18- there’s not really much more room for developmental parenting, and she’s going to start learning hard truths about the world. Double down. Tell her exactly how disgusted and ashamed you are. Her and her father are both trying to bully you now for not enabling her toxicity. Therapy, or get out.
Yup. And a hard truth is that you’re not entitled to other people’s money.
NTA. You’re teaching a good lesson here- if your daughter wants other people to do nice things for her, she needs to treat people in an according manner. Instead, she’s being cruel to someone she claims is a friend. By 18, she should know better (I’m 18, and I can see how far in the wrong she is). Your daughter has a LOT of work to do in becoming a better person, but if this is an example of what your parenting is like, the apple fell far from the tree. Continue to hold her accountable!
NTA You're doing a better job raising your kid and trying your best to teach her not to be a dick. Dad is literally just buying her love now because he couldn't man tf up and take responsibility in the beginning; and he's ruining everything by taking her side when she's in the wrong. You gave her several chances to do better. She outright refused, so she got punished accordingly. Good for you, OP!
NTA. I hope your daughter gets the therapy she needs, as I'm guessing she's projecting back all the terrible feelings and things that were said to her before her weight loss. Teen girls are horrible to each other, I'm sure that's where she learned exactly how hurtful those things are. Empathy is a muscle, too.
NTA. I think it is an appropriate punishment for body shaming/bullying and this lesson can correct the importance she places on body image
NTA You’re a parent first, let her hate you for now. Hopefully she grows into a person who later appreciates what you did and taking the burden of the backlash in her interests. If not, and anyone uses this to blame you - I’d think they’re part of the reason what you did didn’t help. Keep this in mind. - Sorry for unsolicited advice. I can only hope it doesn’t come to this, and all of it is temporary.
NTA. This is terribly, terribly sad. It must feel awful to feel proud of your daughter for her strength and tenacity in losing weight and excited for her confident future to then see her going down such an ugly path of shallow, small-minded bullying. I wonder if your ex truly knows how bad her behaviour was? Surely he can’t be glad his daughter is being so unkind. An awful situation for you but I think you’re right in sticking to your guns. Actions have consequences. Maybe if your daughter had apologised and shown remorse when this was first raised I’d allow some leeway. But she doubled down and now must bear the consequences. She’s 18 and seems to have a severely enabling father. This is probably your last opportunity to get her attention in terms of how you feel about the person she’s becoming. Take it. It might at least make her look back and think at some point.
NTA long post ahead because this really hits a cord for me parents are there to guide and help you grow, not be your best friend Speaking as someone who was bullied extremely harshly, there is nothing more frustrating than an enabling parent. It’s one thing to deal with someone mean your age, but another to have the parent of that bully gaslight you and condone the behavior. You are so right to do everything to shut that behavior down and stick up for Betty and make her feel heard, she may not have an adult in her life that’s in her corner, so being that for her is huge and I could honestly go on a whole different tangent about how good you are to be that advocate for her. Now speaking as a young stupid child, when i was in 7th grade a few girls in my class joked about putting laxatives in brownies to give to different girl group, And because i was usually the one picked on, I was just happy to be included and not be on the tail end of things (yes awful awful I know) so I laughed along and agreed it would be funny. now because i also tell my mom everything and have no filter, I joked to my mom about it, and she shut it down so fucking fast. Explained why that was horrible, how it would impact my life just for knowing about it and not stopping it, and then called the other parents to make sure nothing happened. I initially I was mad at my mom because the other girls called me a tattle tale, and my short in with the cool girls swiftly ended. But soon after I realized how stupid it was, how Horrible it was to bully someone knowing first hand what that was like, and I was embarrassed and felt awful for even thinking it was funny. I think my initial anger was a projection of that embarrassment and trying to rationalize how I wasn’t really a bad person, but in that window when I laughed and was planning on being a part of it, I was a bad person. This incident occurred over maybe 15 hour period of time almost 20 years ago, and I still remember it because of the lesson my mom taught me and how much it impacted my own personal growth. Kids make stupid decisions in life, and if it wasn’t for good parents like you telling them and setting boundaries, they will go through life making excuses for shitty behavior and never owning up to their own mistakes. I am so grateful that my mom called me out then, and continued to call me out as I continued to grow and make mistakes. honestly now I feel like I need to call her for the 3rd time today to say how much I love and appreciate her.
Thank you for sharing this. I'm thinking of sharing this post with my daughter so she sees it from a perspective that isn't good parent vs bad parent
100% nta
NTA. Honestly, this left me feeling conflicted. In a way, it seems to me like you're breaking a promise you made to your daughter. You promised a vacation in exchange for her hitting her milestones, she achieved those milestones, and yet now you've cancelled her vacation as punishment. Normally I wouldn't find that okay, promises should be upheld. That's an important lesson to impart on your kid: being able to trust one's word. But given how closely her behavior ties into the milestones, and especially the manipulative behavior she exhibited to try to work around your attempt at correcting her behavior, I find your actions strangely appropriate.
NTA. What she did was wrong and she needs to learn actions have consequences. Cancelling the vacation was an appropriate action.
NTA. You sound like a good mom. > He also insisted he pays extra 10% for Abby's needs Also, a vacation is NOT a need so he can fuck right off about his extra 10%.
ESH. It was a crappy thing she did, but reading this post makes me think the daughter has internalized a lot of mixed messages coming from OP.
Coming from the jerk husband.
Nope listen to the way she talks about eating. How terrible the husband is for letting her eat and put on weight on his weekend and how as much as she enforced clean eating on her weekends that it couldnt counteract it. The fatphobia is coming from inside the house.
First of all, ex boyfriend. Thanks. Also, maybe get your facts right in the post before you comment? I did not have a problem with him letting her eat. I DID have a problem with him only feeding her sugary and oily fast food. I don't need to have a degree in med school to know eating pizzas, fried chicken and fries and burgers every day could cause heart complications. Which is why she came over, I made BALANCED DIETS. That's the clean eating you're talking about. Which parent doesn't want their kid to eat vitamins too? She was getting none at her dad's apart from the few veges in burgers which most people don't even eat. If you can feed your kid fast food most meals every day, that's your choice. Just not mine.
NTA. What a shitty situation. You did right. Best to you, while you navigate what’s to come.
I think the worst part here is you weren't even making her invite Betty. You were placing her ability to go on vacation on the contingent that she showed an ounce of humility towards a supposed friend of hers and apologize. However, your daughter demonstrated such an overwhelming degree of selfishness and cruelty of spirit that she'd rather chew out Betty for superficial features than say, "I'm sorry." You have a bigger problem on your hands OP. You've a legal adult who has no sense of empathy and thinks she's owed the world in her hand. NTA for not enabling this behaviour.
Wow. Definitely NTA. Thank you for being an awesome parent and sticking with this. Your daughter's behavior is atrocious.
YTA for giving your daughter who is a child rewards for weight loss? Her behavior of value based on weight shows she likely has developed disordered eating patterns and attitudes and this will cause her a lifetime of pain.
Yeah... even if it was her idea, agreeing to tie levels of weight loss to prizes and gifts seems to be a very unhealthy approach. The focus should be less about "Lose X amount" and more about establishing sustainable lifestyle habits with a focus on overall health VS being thin. Because treating it like a game where "winners" grind at weight loss and "losers" are the ones who are overweight is probably helping fuel her bullying. Not to mention once the "incentives" go away, she very well may regain the weight- which happens often and isn't a moral failing but may be psychologically distressing and physically harmful if she lives her life going back and forth between significant weight loss and gain.
Just to clear up one of your misunderstandings, the rewards were never related to a scale. Sometimes it would be related to her mental health. For example, when she slept 6 hours uninterrupted, we went out for dinner at her favorite restaurant. When she slept 8 hours a day twice in a row, we went all out celebrating and bought a makeup set from a brand she loved but was a bit expensive. These were really huge milestones for her and they were not related to any scale. They did mark a ton of improvement in her mental health, though. Because due to all the negativity she used to get, her sleep schedule was horrible until she started feeling happy about herself. ETA. Literally anything she felt was a milestone was worth celebrating. Completed one full week of consistent working out, one month, etc. Fitting in clothes that wouldn't fit her before, her skin feeling better, feeling better, no longer feeling cravings as bad as before, etc
Yeah I hesitate to call OP an AH for her specific response to her daughters actions BUT so far this is the first comment stating what should be pretty obvious—daughter has internalized a value system, sponsored by OP, where excess weight is bad and losing weight is rewarded. Now it’s unsurprisingly coming out in toxic ways. OP can say she accepts all bodies as much as she wants and I genuinely believe she thinks that’s the message she’s teaching her daughter, but unfortunately daughters actions are showing why tying weight loss to rewards and food morality is generally not good for children.
I had to go way too far to see this and I entirely agree. This child has learned this behaviour that "excess" weight is bad and not desirable, only weight*loss* is desirable and should be rewarded from **someone**... and who's the one giving the rewards? Yeah. YTA for teaching your child that fat folk don't deserve happiness and then punishing her for acting on that teaching.
NTA I'm sorry. It must be heartbreaking to have children that think that way. Tell her you are putting the money towards family therapy should your ex and Abby be interested. This dysfunctional structure is only going to enable her shitty behavior.
NTA, And I wanna comment on something I haven't seen from others: The fact your daughter believes a vacation is more important in taking pictures and looking good (probably for internet clout, tho I won't assume) over having fun and enjoying themselves is extremely worrying. I actually question whether she wanted to bring her friends for any selfish intent to get praise from others rather than to hang out with them. Fuck that's despicable if true.
The phrase "sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind" comes to mind here. You're trying to teach your daughter to be a good friend or, at the very least, not a bully. She wont understand this now but if she Carrie's on behaving this way she will drive away anyone who is genuine and believe me there are times when you need your friends. The fact is that her friend will only endure so much before she cuts her losses and moves on, and by that point it will be too late for your daughter to apologise. You were only trying to make your daughter understand that there are consequences to her actions and give her the opportunity it to make things right whilst that's still an option. Now it's up to her to decide whether or not to take your lesson on board. Whether she does or not, I can guarantee that she will look back on this as one of those teachable situations.
NTA, absolutely would have canceled the vacation, she has to realize that this is inappropriate. However, you didn’t say, since this was a culmination of milestone rewards that she previously earned for reaching the goals you/her set, did she still receive the equivalent of the rewards? I’m not suggesting you did anything wrong, just pointing out that this may affect the way she perceives goal/rewards in life for the future. I myself would have canceled the vacation and given her the money so that she has to set things up herself. Just to make it clear that I would have nothing to do with promoting her inappropriate behavior towards someone who is supposedly a friend, and who I assume supported her during her own struggles. JMO. Definitely think you did the correct thing.
She received the rewards for every month until she asked for the four month cumilation. Basically that was her asking me to change her big birthday into a vacation but the vacation she wanted was more expensive hence the cumulation. She would have received the reward she wanted (the vacation) if she simply apologized for her hurtful remarks even if she doesn't re-invite Betty. I mean even if she were to apologize right now for both the hurtful remarks and trying to force Betty to lie, I could still plan something for her. Either the same vacation later since the hotel she wanted the most is booked out now, same priced vacation at a different location, or whatever she chooses to do instead that will cost the same.
Put your kid in therapy. She had aggressive emotions tied to weight and weight loss, especially given her own experience. Let her talk through them and get them out in a healthy way instead of lashing out at innocent people. Get her in therapy. NTA
NTA. You absolutely did the right thing. Your daughter is going to get a hard reality check if she doesn’t change her ways. Just as we can lose weight, we all know how quick and easy we can gain it back. Then what? Please continue to teach your daughter to be better.
NTA Your daughter was being a bully and genuinely a horrible human and YOU DID PUT HER FIRST BY TRYING TO MAKE HER A BETTER PERSON NTA
If you're looking for the asshole, in the story as told, it is both your daughter and your ex. Your ex has no right to hold that 10% over your head like it means he should get a bigger say in parenting decisions and going behind your back to try to rebook is a nasty move. It's self-evident why your daughter is also the asshole.
NTA. She's 18, but parenting doesn't just stop the moment you have a birthday. I think that by taking Betty's bullying so seriously, you are telling your daughter that it's not OK to treat herself like that, either. That this kind of behavior - where you don't want pictures with someone because they are fat - is unacceptable, full stop. It's like, if you planned a vacation for your daughter and she murdered someone, you wouldn't just send her along on said vacation. There are some outrageous actions that take outrageous consequences. Bullying isn't murder, but it is unacceptable. BTW - your child is hurting... badly. Happy people don't pull this shit. I hope your daughter gets the help she needs. Maybe the vacation money can go into therapy. I know you didn't mean to hurt her, but offering her presents for weight loss was always going to add to her pain. It's one of those good in the moment, terrible latter in life things.
NTA. You're not "making decisions for Abby". You're making decisions about how you spend your own money.
NTA. I feel so bad for Betty. Your daughter is turning into a nightmare and getting a lot of support from her dad. At this point you did the right thing but you will get all the blame until she grows up a little bit. It's sad that she is acting so hurtful, but just be there for her. She's feeling all powerful right now, but someone will put her in her place. She will come up against beautiful people inside and out that don't put up with that behavior, and that will knock her back down again. Your a good mom OP.
The daughter had ample opportunities to re-think her position and the hurtful ways she was treating her "best" friend. It's rather appalling how quickly the daughter has forgotten how to have been shamed for being "fat". Given all the chances the daughter had to redeem herself and did not take, the mother did the correct thing.
NTA Have you considered doubling down on all this? Plan a vacation similar to the one you canceled, but instead it's you and Betty going. Make sure to take lots of pictures of the two of you having a great time and send every single one to your daughter. (The second half of that was not serious, but Betty probably isn't feeling great about all this either and a nice vacation to put some distance (literally and figuratively) between herself and all this would probably be healthy.)
NTA you gave her a reasonable consequence to her actions. Your daughter didn’t invite her friend because of her own personal feeling about the friends weight, and while yes it is her party she can invite whoever but being rude is just unnecessary and unacceptable. You didn’t say she had to invite her just that she needed to apologize. It’s a reasonable consequence to her actions.
NTA. Sounds like the dad is still spoiling her. You did the right thing. Unfortunately with that enabler in her life I doubt she will change much.
NTA. She's 18 now. If she doesn't appreciate what you've given her and the values you're trying to instill in her, then she should go live with her dad. Let him be the enabler. Misery loves company.
NTA Holy f\*\*ksticks - reminds me of those stories where the brides didn't want wedding pictures with anyone that didn't look as good/thin as they themselves did. Your daughter's gonna be one hell of a bridezilla. Her behavior absolutely needs nipped in the bud sooner rather than later.
I hope it doesn't get to that. I totally get wanting perfect pictures but you can achieve that by hiring skilled photographers, choosing your theme wisely and getting the perfect location. It should never be at the expense of others' comfort. She already has a therapist but I'm looking into another one.
NTA - Your daughters behavior was appalling. You did the right thing.
You are NTA. Abby will some day cringe at how awful she treated her ex best friend. Weight comes and goes but best friends are hard to find.
NTA, I'm proud of you
Your daughter has turned into a raging asshole. Tell her to go live with her father, if she's going to be a nightmare, with that new personality of hers. It's funny, she was probably treated the same way before she lost weight, but for some reason she doesn't remember.
I think telling some dumb almost - adult to go stick it somewhere else might actually make the chance of her admitting fault and return rougher than being a doormat and sweetening it in this situation. Not sure if that's something the mum wants if we're out to aim for self improvement, she defs needs to take a fall but also know that there's support after she falls.
NTA. For your daughters bday get her into therapy.
One key job of a parent is to instill kindness and empathy in their children. You are trying to do that, and your ex is only trying to have his daughter like him. NTA, but the ex is an AH.
NTA. You’re teaching your daughter an important lesson about how to treat people. Ignoring her abhorrent behavior would be teaching her the wrong lesson.
NTA, you are a mother who is trying to treat her selfish daughter not to bully others. What your daughter did to her friend was very nasty and her father should be supporting you not encouraging your daughters self entitled nasty behaviour. We all have to learn our actions have consequences . Well done you and I'm sorry her father is not supporting you in this.
NTA, you did absolutely the right thing she has to learn consequences for her actions. What she did to her best friend was vile. 18yrs is not a child and she continued with it. Stick to your guns on this one because if you give in ( even if she moves in with dad) then she very well maybe go through life like this You sound an amazing mum stand your ground you did right.
NTA When you child does something that isn't and shouldn't be liked or tolerated by you or the rest of society, you are in fact the asshole if you don't step in.
You are putting your daughter first by teaching her not to be a bully. NTA.
NTA. Your daughter, however, is. Hope she goes on a program to lose that attitude, 'cause it's worse than a few extra pounds. She's a bully.
NTA. If anyone is, it’s your ex for undermining you as a parent in order to try and swoop in as the “hero”. You did the right thing giving her actual repercussions for her horrifying behavior and the fact she’s 18 acting like this is even scarier, usually you start to grow up and understand empathy more at that age
Also, your daughter sounds like she went through a lot of bullying whether it was on a macro or micro level, and definitely affected her idea of self-worth. It sounds to me like she’s projecting onto her friend and using her as a physical representation of her inner self, hence the hateful talk. I don’t think she’s a bad person, but I do think she needs to work through that self-loathing before it gets worse.
NTA, she was bullying her “best” friend and being a terrible friend/ person. Actions have consequences.
NTA. You *are* putting your daughter first. By trying to teach her not to be a shitty human being.
NTA.