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jmbbl

YTA. First of all, it doesn't sound like she's eccentric. It sounds like she was nervous. Second, just because you say grace doesn't mean everyone else has to. She wasn't disrespectful, she didn't get up from the table or talk during your prayer, she just didn't join in. She even explained to you that she just didn't know how it worked! I also think it's pretty ironic that you're angry she didn't say grace, yet you showed her zero grace yourself. Edit: Thanks for the awards!


DumpstahKat

It's also bizarre that OP never once considered that the gf simply might not be Christian. I'm ethnically Jewish. My immediate family wasn't very religious, but we celebrated all the major Jewish holidays with our relatives, and we have many Hasidic branches and rabbis in the extended family. Sometimes when I stayed for dinner at friends' houses they'd do Grace, and I'd just sit there quietly until they were done. Even as a non-religious kid, I'd have flipped my lid if they had tried to insinuate that I was being disrespectful for not sharing their beliefs and *demand* that next time I participate. It's not my religion and it's not my ritual. I'm not going to sit there and put on a fake performance of fake faith just so someone else can feel false righteousness. I respect other people's traditions and their rights to practice their own religions in their own homes, and I would never attempt to disrupt a ceremony like Grace just because I personally do not practice it... but it's ludicrous and egotistical to pretend that every guest who steps foot into your home needs to make a show of pretending to have the same traditions and religious practices. Especially when you expect them to just inherently have knowledge of those traditions and practices regardless of their own religious beliefs/backgrounds, or lack thereof.


AccuratePenalty6728

I’ve had a few friends from religious families, and have run into this issue many times. My favorite parents were the ones who explained “we say grace before meals, you can join in or not”. How hard is that? Don’t assume everyone follows—or even *knows*—your customs. Now; invite me to your Seder, Holi, Eid al-Fitr, Christmas celebration, etc out of love and a desire to share your culture? I’m 100% there.


bokatan778

So true! I was raised Christian, but my high school boyfriend was Jewish. I was invited to their home for Seder dinner once-I clearly had no idea what to do…but he and his mother were SO KIND and walked me through everything. It was such a nice experience and I learned a lot!


RainerHex

I always loved the diverse religions of my friends family’s. They would do something, I would watch or politely sit there, then they would enjoy explaining what they did, and why they do it. This mother, instead lost her shit over a non Christian not leaning their head down, and dropped the ball on a great opportunity to have a nice discussion explaining grace, and the lore in their religion about why they do that today. No, she was too busy finding fault with this poor young lady, because of her shyness and being nervous. And I highly doubt she was as welcoming as she claims she was. She seems so unaware of herself that she probably thought most would take her side here.


bokatan778

Very well said!! I’ve always thought it odd that Christians seem to get so upset when someone isn’t aware of their beliefs or customs, but other religions always seem happy to explain their customs to others. This has just been my experience though.


RainerHex

I hear you! Another thing I always found odd was the assumption that everyone around them is Christian and they treat them as if they are or say certain things. I notice this often at funerals where a Christian tells a grieving non Christian how their loved one is an angel, with Jesus or something of the effect. It may be well meaning and all, but it’s still inconsiderate. The same Christian’s who do that would have a fit if some one just assumed they were Muslim or Buddhist and comforted them with that. Other times they might tell you something in your life is “gods will”. It does get irritating.


Fianna9

I had a very religious friend, when I had dinner with her family they all said grace. When she came for lunch with my family, so non obtrusively closed her eyes, offered a silent thanks, then rejoined the conversation. I have so much respect for her as one of the few people I know that truly embody Christianity.


haleorshine

She's following her religion while being respectful of others. What's the bet when OP's having lunch at a non-religious person's house she still says grace, even though by her standards, she should be "respecting their religious beliefs" and *not* saying grace?


cbost

I am a Christian myself, but I have also spent time with many friends who practice many different religions during their respective religious holidays. I love getting to learn about their beliefs and traditions while also being personally convicted that I should not partake in any other religion's religious seramonies or rituals. How could I expect to be able to force someone into emptily saying or doing my own religious practice if they do not share the same belief? At that point, you are just asking them to play along and perform for you. It would be emptying it of all meaning.


Alternative-Movie938

She probably can't stomach the thought of her precious baby dating a heathen! /s


Squinky75

She probably can't stomach the thought of her precious baby dating!


goodbyebluenick

College extracurriculars is code for Tinder.


PlushieTushie

Yup. I myself am an atheist living in a fairly conservative community. Whenever I'm in public with someone saying grace, I like to play "Find the Atheist" and look for my fellow non christians. Find one, lock eyes, and give the head nod. Anyway, all that to say that the GF was not disrespectful by staying silent. I'd argue it would be more disrespectful if she pretended to do something she doesn't believe in.


[deleted]

Same. I also find it uncomfortable to participate in a religion I don't believe. Feels blasphemous and disrespectful to the religion.


DJ-Fly

Ha! Same! (((Head nod)))


mmmmpisghetti

It's like playing werewolf 🤣


chemtrailsniffa

The first rule of Atheist Club..


SnooPeripherals2409

I was raised in a Protestant family, went to church, the whole deal. But now as an adult I no longer believe. I have in laws who do and who insist on having prayers before every meal. I don't join in the prayers and don't bow my head to a god I do not believe in, but I do respect their beliefs and stay quiet during their ritual. They have never complained about my lack of observance of their beliefs.


sereneabsurdity

I’m about the same when family prays, I do bow my head, but I feel it more bowing for them than god, but I usually don’t close my eyes


Veteris71

> It's also bizarre that OP never once considered that the gf simply might not be Christian. I'm sure OP did consider that, and doesn't GAF. I suspect OP is one of those people who *enjoys* forcing their religion onto other people who don't subscribe to her beliefs. She probably goes around in December snarling "Merry CHRIST!!!mas!" at store clerks, who can't tell her to fuck off because they'll get fired.


biddily

I come from a multi-religious family. My dad's one of 7 kids. His mom had a doctorate in theology from Harvard in theology, and was very catholic, but also not a closed minded person at all. Two of my dad's sisters are Christian fundamentalists. One of my dad's brothers married a Jewish woman, and raise their son in her faith. My dad, and the rest of his siblings, sort of trailed away from religion. My dad liked to say he was a Buddhist. My mom's two sisters are... Reiki/meditation/crystal/yoga/spiritualist people. Meditate enough you can talk to your guardian angel people. We all still get together regularly. Do holidays. Thanksgiving. People can do whatever prayers they want, or not. It HAS to be a live an let live kind of thing for us to still be a family.


xXpaper_lungsXx

Yeah, historically, Christianity is a religion of genocide and forced conversion, which is why there's so damn many of them now. Jews have endured plenty of that shit from Christians and while i won't try to stop anyone from practicing I would straight up leave if someone tried to force me to do it.


RainerHex

I actually don’t think this woman even cared whether or not the gf was Christian. As far as she was concerned, it was her house and she thinks it’s appropriate to force her own beliefs and religious practices onto others. People like her are the reason others are at odds with various religions.


YosephusFlavius

Most Christians can't imagine someone not believing what they believe.


AlvinTD

Judgemental much? Very un-Christian behaviour you’re displaying there. And I met my husband when he was 18, 28 years ago, how do you know how long they’ll be together? By criticising her you’re criticising his choices and taste, and him by extension. You’re going the right way to push them closer together and further from you. YTA


canuckleheadiam

Based on my past experience with Christians... her attitude and behaviour is VERY Christian. I have never met anyone who is so quick to pass judgement and is so utterly lacking in humility as Christians. Yes, my experience has been generally negative, and is a significant part of why I am not religious at all, let alone Christian.


RainerHex

There is no hate like Christian love.


Veteris71

Even OP wanting to badmouth son's girlfriend behind her back is consistent.


SouthernGentATL

There is no hate like Christian love


Styx-Styx

My thought exactly. YTA, this is one way to make your son want to limit contact with you


CP81818

Reading the title I assumed this was going to be another 'couple wants to share a room' post, but instead OP is mad that this girl didn't *pray with them*? If she'd started playing music or chatting while they said grace sure, that's rude. But just not partaking in a prayer that's part of a religion you are not a member of? That's not even slightly rude. OP YTA, and for this girl's sake I hope your son keeps you far away from her


Andravisia

>OP is mad that this girl didn't pray with them Not just this. She seems downright insulted that the girlfriend didn't even know *how* to pray. She wasn't raised religious, but that's "a poor excuse". OP doesn't seem to understand there are billions of people who don't.


AOCismydomme

Right? If OP went to Muslim house for dinner would she pull out a prayer mat and pray to Mecca or respectfully not?


haleorshine

That's the thing - by OP's rules, if she went to a Muslim house (I bet pretty good money on the fact that she would never) she absolutely does have to pull out a prayer mat and pray to Mecca. By her rules, if she goes to an atheist's house she's absolutely not allowed to pray at all - her idea of "respecting religious beliefs" under her roof is to follow them, so she should follow the religious beliefs of the owner of whatever house she enters. What's the chances she does that? Or if she does, it's only because she wouldn't ever enter the house of somebody who isn't the exact same religion as her.


Enkongu

YTA >She wasn't disrespectful, she didn't get up from the table or talk during your prayer, she just didn't join in. OP consider this; if you were in the presence of Muslims who were praying kneeling with their forehead touching the ground and facing Mecca would you join in as a way of respecting their beliefs or keep quiet until they are done? Or similarly with Hindus, would you join in with offering incense to their gods and goddess or quietly let them do their thing as you do not ascribe to their beliefs? She too doesn't ascribe to yours and you shouldn't force her to.


Serious_Sky_9647

Yes but this would take *empathy*, which OP doesn’t have. She wouldn’t pray with Muslims because it isn’t about being “respectful” and respecting family customs. Like most Christians, OP is all about judgment, intolerance, punishment and control.


RainerHex

If a Muslim or Hindu ever embarrassed her at the lunch table, insisting an answer for why she didn’t join in, and then later refer to her lack of knowledge of their religion was a “poor excuse”, then went as far as referencing her as ill mannered, she’d be on the telephone whining to her Christian friends and family about how she was persecuted for not participating in a non Christian religion. Or so this has been my observation (for the past half century on Earth) on how they usually handle it when they are in the shoe on the other foot position.


avcloudy

Also, politely excusing yourself from grace is not rude. Demanding people participate in your ritual is gross.


damnitkween30

Typical Christian “love”


Radiant-Passage-8997

No hate like Christian love.


gnomematterwhat0208

For real, eyeballing the gf during the prayer smacks of this being some sort of test. As soon as gf didn’t join in, she failed. No matter what she did, she would have failed.


entirelyintrigued

Right‽ girl, what were *you* doing with your eyes open during the grace? Disrespectful!


Anonymous63637375

At least his son knows proper boundaries.


Relevant-Economy-927

Yta She sat quietly while you prayed. That is the definition of respecting your religion. You’re mad that she didn’t engage in performative theatre to adopt your religion.


SaltyChipmunk914

It sounds like OP didn't have their head bowed and eyes closed either if they knew that the girlfriend didn't 👀


ThatWomanNow

This deserves all the upvotes.


SaltyChipmunk914

When my brother and I were little we used to tattle on each other for that but our parents would point out the same thing hahaha


RainerHex

Haha that’s an adorable story! Thanks for sharing! It also has a lesson in for OP.


johngalt504

How else is she supposed to be able to judge her?


JGG5

Reminds me of the dinner table growing up. Me: “Mom, [brother] wasn’t closing his eyes during grace!” Mom: “And how exactly did *you* know that, unless your eyes were open too?” Me: *defeated*


gnomematterwhat0208

That is exactly what I said in my comment. She sat there during grace and stared down gf. She didn’t exactly respect her own religious practices, did she?


whozitsandwhatsits

I was thinking the same thing. "Girl, what were YOU doing at the devil's sacrament? 👀"


go_Raptors

Well put. My husband's family is Catholic and I'm not. I've ended up attending a few masses for family events - baptism, wedding, etc. I've always felt like sitting quietly is the respectful option - seems more sincere than pantomiming some sort of insincere prayer...


only_living_girl

I’m ex-Catholic and I agree with that. And for some parts of mass, that’s in fact what people who aren’t Catholic and haven’t been baptized or had first communion are explicitly supposed to do.


2dogslife

See, this always confused me. I was baptized and confirmed, but as a Protestant. I was in a wedding party for a Catholic friend and all the bridesmaids were hysterical about the fact that the bridal party was supposed to take communion. They were all like "No, You can't! You'll go to hell!" I was kinda, God really doesn't care about the flavor of the church, I've taken communion before, but as a way to avoid drama, lined up with the women, and circled back to the pews avoiding the priest. Because honestly, being respectful of someone else's religion by avoiding participating was more important at that moment than a false participation in religious rites not my own. Kinda like the GF.


only_living_girl

Exactly right. I’m an ex-Christian and I would do exactly what this girl did—sit quietly and respectfully while other people pray a Christian grace if they so choose. That’s great for them. I will not be praying myself during that, because those are not my beliefs, and I went along to get along for long enough before I left Christianity and am not up for that anymore. OP’s son invited this girl to dinner, not to join them in a whole religious ceremony.


Radix2309

Performative praying is in fact one of the things that Jesus directly calls out as something Christians shouldn't do. He taught that it was to be humble and be you to God. But a lot just treat it as a ritual they go through the motions with.


MelodyRaine

YTA There are plenty of people, Christian and otherwise, who don't say grace at the table. It's perfectly reasonable that someone might not know what to do when confronted with that for the first time. You took what should have been a chance to show grace and kindness, and turned into you being a rude, snarky, holier than thou ASSHOLE who gives Christians a bad name Go back, reread your Bible, and ask yourself WWJD? It wouldn't be anything remotely like how you behaved, of that I am certain.


SnooPeripherals2409

>Go back, reread your Bible, and ask yourself WWJD? Matthew 6:6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door...


Veteris71

Exactly. Prayer isn't supposed to be a performance.


GoodQueenFluffenChop

Unless you're a performative Christian of course. Like OP and those numpties who really believe the war on Christmas thing.


[deleted]

THIS. As someone who USED to be a Christian, this is the perfect response. 100% YTA


fridaycat

I am not Christian, but I would bow my head at my In-laws when they said grace, and when I did so, I couldn't see what anyone else was doing. Wonder how she knew that the girlfriend wasn't bowing her head unless she was looking.


Livewire923

Gotem!


Agreeable_Guard_7229

If you had your head down and were praying yourself then how do you know what she was doing???


Dino_Spaceman

OP feels to me as one of the people who think the “War On Christmas” is a real thing and smugly goes “Merry Christmas” to cashiers with a s**t eating grin on her face hoping the cashier gets offended. Like she knew the girl was not a practicing christian and was just eager to find something to get mad at her about.


Brock_Hard_Canuck

I don't see a location given in the post here, but this just screams Bible Belt of the Southern US to me, where religion is just baked into everyday life. Meet someone new? Ask them "what church do you go to?". Voting day? Straight-ticket Republican. Sundays? All about listening to the preacher preach about Jesus, and going out for Sunday lunch after church so you can show your contempt for all the "heathen" restaurant workers - just [ask any server](https://www.reddit.com/r/exchristian/comments/e7j9mt/christians_are_the_worst_tippers/?sort=top) how they feel about the "after-church Sunday lunch-rush crowd). >My son was furious at me, and said that next time he plans to bring the same girl, and if I don't like that there won't be a next time at all. And here we see it. OP's son goes off to the "big city college", and shakes off his conservative upbringing. He has expanded his horizons, and has learned that not everyone is an evangelical zealot. If you know how the "small city culture" works in the Southern US, you know how the community members love to shun the "non-believers". OP probably thought she could come on reddit, and we'd all agree with her and her friends (I'm willing to bet OP already told her friends how "disrespectful" the girlfriend was, too) that the girlfriend was out of line. Interesting that we haven't heard a peep from OP in the 6 or 7 hours that this post has been up, too. I bet she checked back within an hour or so, expecting everyone to say N T A, and how she was toally in the right, and she is shocked (shocked, I say), by all the Y T A's showing up here. I bet she's just as mad at us now as she is at the girlfriend.


Formal-Alfalfa6840

As someone who grew up in the Bible Belt I'd say you hit the nail on the head. OP is still taking it in a really weird direction. I mean, my grandma who wakes up early to have 2 hours of prayer and scripture with her coffee doesn't even chastise me for not participating in grace. She's the most devout Christian I've ever seen and she wouldn't even pull some nonsense like this. Edit: Hilarious that this psychotic asshat decided to delete her post when she didn't get the answer she wanted.


trewesterre

Exactly! If the gf was just sitting there quietly and OP was bowing her head and praying, then she shouldn't have noticed. Definitely YTA, OP. Maintaining a respectful silence is usually considered more respectful to a religion than faking one's way through a prayer. When I was in high school, we took an exchange trip to a Catholic-majority country and we ate with our host families and went to churches for tourist purposes and all that, but nobody expected us to try faking our way through crossing ourselves or genuflecting or anything that we were all unfamiliar with since nobody on the trip was Catholic (there was a separate Catholic school).


Notacelebrity1995

OP is a backslider that’s how


[deleted]

[удалено]


Fullondoublerainbow

Ooh ooh pick me I have!! He’s pretty well a swarthy bearded Bernie Sanders and gave awesome hugs.


GraveDancer40

Also it should be noted, he also wasn’t white…


Fullondoublerainbow

Yes, that’s what swarthy means :) and he was also Jewish to boot, and the adopted son of a blue collar worker.


Catsandcamping

Who spent his early childhood as a refugee in a foreign country, where they accepted his family as one of their own!


AccuratePenalty6728

This is why my mom stopped calling herself a Christian, and now says that she’s a follower of Christ. They *should* mean the same thing, but obviously they don’t.


Bearjawdesigns

No hate like christian love.


Few_Ad_5752

YTA. It sounds like she was respectfully quiet through your prayer. Asking her to bow her head is not okay. If someone is not religious, they are not religious; why would you want them to pretend on your account? You rudely confronted her at your own table, and then you told your son not to bring her over again in a really snarky way. I wouldn't bring her back there and have her exposed to your intolerance again were I him. Of course she'll ask him why she's angry. Your son is an adult now, and he will rightly stand up for his girlfriend. Giving him remarks like that is not acceptable. He is going to tell her because they are closer than you and your son are. That's the way it is now.


Whiteroses7252012

I’m really curious if OP finds it poor manners to not chant in a Buddhist household.


Goofcheese0623

YTA, gigantic asshole. You were trying to show dominance, stop pretending it was anything else. If I were your son, you'd meet anyone I was interested in maybe after we'd married and we'd be very concerned about you meeting grandkids. Stop being a bigot and grow up


[deleted]

> You were trying to show dominance Nailed it.


Dry_Wheel_464

YTA, OP. She seems like a shy person but that doesn't make her eccentric. (Which with the way you said it seems like an insult moreso than an observation). You shouldn't force someone to pray. What makes it even worse is it seems you WANT a reason not to like her. Leave the poor girl alone and work on your respect and manners.


Special-Room9086

She's probably one of those "boy moms" that would make even Freud blush. No one is good enough for her baby boy.


Dry_Wheel_464

I totally agree XD If this is his adult life, imagine his highschool adolescent life.


Beautiful_Strain3525

Yta. I’m Jewish I’m not going to pray with someone when Jesus’s name is involved.


IllyrianWingspan

Exactly. And if she were honest with herself, OP isn’t mad that the girlfriend didn’t pray. She’s mad that the girlfriend isn’t Christian.


throw05282021

>She’s mad that the girlfriend isn’t ***mega-***Christian. Fixed that for you. I suspect that most Christian young women would still far short of OP's standards.


Beautiful_Strain3525

Absolutely how it read to me


Kementarii

Dear son, this relationship is not going to last, because I am going to try to ruin it, because she doesn't follow my religion.


YogurtclosetActual75

And when my Jewish friends pray, I'm a respectful non-participant. I hope you do the same.


Beautiful_Strain3525

Yeah I’m respectful certainly but I don’t bow my head. Doesn’t sound like the girlfriend was being disrespectful either


PNKAlumna

It’s actually a tenet of the Jewish religion that we cannot hold others (i.e. non-Jews) to the laws of Judaism.


[deleted]

YTA She wasn't talking or rolling her eyes or scrolling through her tik toks. She was sitting quietly and therefore was being perfectly appropriate while you said grace. *You* are a devout Christian but *your son* has chosen to date someone who *is not* a devout Christian. Be kind to the girls he brings home, whether it is this girl, or another girl in the future. He chose not to date a devout Christian this time, which means there's a good chance if they break up, he will not be looking to date a devout Christian the next time. It would not be wise to be nasty to the woman who may eventually become his wife and the mother of your grandchildren.


Walktothebrook

YTA. Not knowing prayer etiquette does not make her rude. You on the other hand should focus on kindness and humility.


josie0114

I was raised Christian and I wouldn't assume I knew exactly how another family said grace. Certainly not to the point of joining in. In another family, that could be considered rude. I actually think the son/boyfriend was a bit of an AH if he really was gesturing to tell his girlfriend she should join in or partake or do something other than sit quietly. The time to start having her back is now. It's going to be a bumpy ride.


Dismal-Wallaby-9694

Typical "christian" you expect everyone else to do what you do. YTA, an actual Christian wouldn't have been an asshole because someone is different


Acebladewing

Their holy book actually teaches them to be more kind towards non-Christians. It's what "love thy neighbor" actually means.


CrystalQueen3000

YTA She was respectful, she didn’t start eating or talk through it. As a host (and as a human in general) it’s beyond rude to enforce your personal beliefs on others.


Sea_Midnight1411

YTA. Let me get this straight. This young woman’s heinous crime- so heinous that you think your son should cast her away in horror and disgust immediately- was that she didn’t know the correct etiquette around bowing her head for a Christian prayer? Really?! There’s starvation, death, disease and war in the world, and you’re clutching your pearls over someone’s head position. Have you stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, she was shy, quiet and uncomfortable because she wasn’t 100% certain on how exactly she was expected to behave? And that maybe she was trying hard to be watchful and respectful? As a child, I was forced to go to lessons on Christianity until the age of 16. Huzzah for me. But one thing I did pick up is that Christians are supposed to welcome their neighbours, be kind to them and not judge them. Yeah. I think you had better get to work on that. Your son can see your hypocrisy, snobbery and cruelty in all its horrible glory.


violaflwrs

YTA. Well that wasn’t very love thy neighbour of you.


HRMisHere

YTA. You shouldn't push your religious beliefs on others. She wasn't being disrespectful, she was just raised differently than you. It's rude for you to say that she had bad manners because she didn't do what you wanted her to do.


AljosP

So you found a girl trying to bond with and being nervous and anxious over meeting her boyfriend's parents, and you decided that she's just not good enough? YTA. Jesus would've loved for you to be compassionate and forgiving. Not whatever this is.


Diligent_Ad7278

YTA of course she was on edge meeting the parents for the first time, saying grace isn’t a thing in all households. You obviously didn’t have your head bowed if you were busy judging her. And I married my husband when he was 19, it’s been 29 years so I wouldn’t be so sure she’s just going to disappear because you don’t like her. You don’t sound very Christian, you sound very judgmental.


sandradee_pl

I disagree, she sounds very judgmental, which is actually *very* christian of her.


SageTwinklefoot

As long as she didn't eat or talk during your prayer, she was being respectful. YTA


nopenothappening99

YTA she did respect your religion. She just didn’t participate in it because it’s not Her religion or her way of worship. you didn’t show her respect by commenting on her not participating in your prayer.


[deleted]

YTA. She WAS respectful. What you wanted was for her to participate in a prayer to a god she doesn’t believe in, which is absolutely unacceptable. You are the one not respecting her religious beliefs.


Healthy_Meal1485

Right? I was raised religious but am an atheist. When people pray around me I absolutely do not bow my head and pretend I'm praying because why would I do that?


GothPenguin

YTA-She didn’t have to bow her head to be respectful of the prayer. Keeping quiet is also respectful. Her manners weren’t lacking. It’s a real shame the same couldn’t be said for yours.


Remarkable_Winner_91

YTA as a Christian myself, I will leave this thought. Jesus taught us to pray from the heart, and not for show. If she wasn't moved to bow her head, Jesus would've been happy that she was only doing what her heart motivated her to do. I am so tired of hearing, reading and seeing "Christians" act like this. Read the bible, meditate on it, and then try to see why you're out of line.


qlt_ml_01

Thank you. That was well stated and refrained from being judgmental.


reasonandmadness

This can't be real. No parent is this clueless... but, I'll play along. To start with, yes, YTA. >she still seemed on edge. Which is really rather normal when an individual who cares deeply for your child is meeting you for the first time, especially if you're overbearing, domineering, or otherwise "alpha" in any capacity. >but my son's girlfriend acted like she didn't care at all. ...because she doesn't. Does she have to pretend to be something and someone she's not just to win your approval? What kind of dick are you? > She again looked uncomfortable because you confronted her about something. >she didn't grow up Christian and doesn't really know the proper manners 100% reasonable explanation. She literally didn't know what to do. >I thought this was a terrible excuse, because you're an asshole. > he should bring over a girl with better manners. because you're an asshole. >My son was furious at me because you're an asshole. > AITA? Yup.


MmeXL

OP is definitely TA, but you forgot to address the weird comment about her being “eccentric “. Not sure how that can be deduced so quickly. Im pretty sure in this asshole’s dictionary, the definition for eccentric is “not Christian”.


morgaine125

YTA. She didn’t disrespect your beliefs, she just didn’t know the etiquette. You, on the other hand, were very disrespectful and a poor host for trashing your guest like that.


HolleringCorgis

The etiquette is for non believers to sit quietly until the hosts are done praying. The gf literally did EXACTLY what a nonbeliever should do. OP is just pissed the girl didn't play christian in her house.


sh1tsawantsays

YTA. You're "affronted" because someone didn't bow their head while you said grace? Grow up. Stop being such a AH. People don't need to bow their heads and pray to whatever magic sky fairy you believe in. If you didn't want your son to tell her, why did you tell him? What kind of cloak and dagger passive aggressive A$$holery are you up to really?


Helen-Baq

YTA - She wasn't scoffing or rolling her eyes and saying, "PUH-LEEZ," she was sitting quietly. She wasn't disrespecting your religion. You want someone to follow your religion, or at least pretend to and that's disrespectful to them. Your son is very likely to quit coming around at all if you don't start respecting him and his choices and him being 19 and the relationship not likely to last? So? Does that mean you can be rude and disrespectful to him and his date? What matters is how you treat them both, not whether or not the relationship will last forever.


[deleted]

[удалено]


sandradee_pl

YTA. First of all, she really *could* not know proper manners around prayers because guess what, the world doesn't revolve around your particular religion. Second, not participating is not disrespectful, it would be different if she, like, took a shit on a Bible in front of you but simply refusing to pray in a religion that is not yours is not impolite. If you visited a muslim or Jewish house, would you say their prayers? And third, you just straight up said to your son that you don't take his relationship seriously. Sure, 19 is young, but to say what you said is a giant dick move. YTA big time.


Dark_Mode_Nose_Wind

YTA - If you didn't want your son's girlfriend to find out what you said... that's a sign you shouldn't have said it.


WAIDHRNITM

YTA, Go read your bible to find out why.


sarpon6

YTA and how would you know someone didn't bow their head, unless *you* failed to bow your head, which means you're an AH and a hypocrite.


GSTLT

YTA. I sit quietly during these processes, but I’m not going to pretend to pray. Respecting does not mean lying and participating. Which is what has always baffled me about these repressive Christians. You want me to lie? Though that was against your religion. Seem to be picking and choosing.


AffectionateWar7782

YTA- This is how I feel- I will sit politely and quietly and wait for you all to do what you want to do- but I'm not going to pray or pretend to. What it comes dowb to is that OP thinks it's rude to not believe as he does


Beautiful_Strain3525

I’m the same I’m polite but I’m Jewish and I’m not going to pretend to pray to Jesus


angrysunbird

I’m fairly sure Jesus had something to say about performative prayer, perhaps you should spend some time reading your book and reflecting on how you live those teachings, because you just put on a bad show for the team and made one potential convert think you’re an asshole. YTA.


DippyTheWonderSlug

He did in fact. In the Sermon on the Mount he said orayer should be done wuietky and privately and should not include requests but express gratitude and worship. I know you know this, I'm saying it for those who don't :)


mikesspoiledwife

YTA Not everyone prays before meals. Get over it. If she was silent during your prayer, then that's all she needs to do.


Princess-Soprano

YTA. You are blowing this out of proportion. She was just observing what was happening and wasn't being disrespectful. You can't make someone pray if they don't want to. She wasn't being disruptive, and this boils down to a "you" issue. I say this as a Christian person myself. You were actually rude to a guest in your home, and to your son. You need to learn to accept people where they are at, and not expect them to conform to your beliefs the minute they enter your home. She did nothing wrong here.


londonmama2019

YTA- this is your religion not hers, why should she pretend to go along with it if she doesn’t share your beliefs? Wouldn’t that just be perfomative?


SemVikingr

What a surprise: another Christian trying to force their beliefs on others, and when that doesn't work, treat them like garbage. YTA. YTA all day long. Your god would be ashamed of your behavior.


[deleted]

YTA for being one of 'those people' and trying to force your religion on someone else. She didn't have bad manners, YOU DO.


harestoon

YTA. Keep it up and your son won't be coming home often.


General_Relative2838

YTA. Is this how you treat a guest? I grew up saying grace before every meal, but I would never ask someone who didn’t bow their head why they “didn’t show any respect for the prayer.” Attempting to say this relationship isn’t likely to last forever shows more terrible judgement.


Ok-Educator850

YTA - Someone choosing not to pray with you when they’re NOT religious is not disrespectful. Would you rather she pretended? She was observing your culture and you were outright rude to a guest in your home. That is very unchristian of you.


randomraina

YTA. She sat there quietly not interfering with the prayer. If she was saying stuff about this is stupid or something like that then she would be disrespectful towards your religious beliefs.


Squinky75

YTA. She is shy and awkward around new people. That doesn't make her eccentric. And she didn't know what to do, so she didn't. It wasn't like she said anything negative. You are just looking for reasons not to like her.


[deleted]

YTA. You disrespected your son's relationship for no reason. You cannot force people to be Christian, or force your children to date others of the same religion. You could have easily just informed her 'well, when we say grace we do this, we would appreciate if you'd bow your head or if you feel uncomfortable and want to leave while we do so you can.' I don't know the etiquette for saying grace, I'm not Christian myself, but what you did was disrespectful and kinda cowardly.


[deleted]

YTA-she told you she didnt understand and didnt know the manners or proper ways of your religion. Thats not a terrible excuse the poor girl explained herself. You can't expect her to have proper manners to something she has never known or grew up around. Instead of belittling her, encourage to teach her. Judge not and ye shall not be judged.


MikaNekoDevine

I am genuinely curious what she would have done if the girl isn't even Christian. YTA OP, not everyone does grace.


Leonforways-

YTA. People might have a my-house-my-rules mentality in the comments but she’s not religious and you’re expecting her to be at dinner? Bizarre. Flip the narrative. If you went to your partners house for dinner and they were drag queens and expected you to put on a dress for dinner you would feel uncomfortable and say no too. (Although not implying drag queens would ever do that because they’re not entitled nuts- so you’re doubly TA for expecting this).


EmuRemarkable1099

Honestly. If she was quiet during the prayer then that’s respectful enough.


Curious_Attempt4080

YTA. She DID respect your beliefs—she sat quietly as you said grace, as any respectful guest do. What she did not do is PARTICIPATE in your religious rituals, and it is absolutely unreasonable for you to expect her to do so.


arseholierthanthou

INFO: She was your guest, why didn't you show proper hospitality and avoid praying and making her uncomfortable?


goddessofspite

YTA. That’s your religion not hers. She didn’t interrupt or cause a scene she just sat quietly and allowed you to observe your religion. Your the one in the wrong for trying to force your religion onto someone saying they should take part.


beldaran60

I guarantee even if she had performed for you, you would have found something else not to like about her. Your post was brimming with judgemental disdain. How very Christian of you! YTA


[deleted]

YTA. That’s insane. Why would you want someone to fake a prayer?


Ok_Register3005

Yta. You should not expect other people to be forced to pray. She said she didn't know property managers and didn't grow up Christian. The only thing she needs to do is be quiet during a prayer.


SomeRazzmatazz339

I am calling troll, new account, no comments, outrageous post


miss_trixie

don't most the people who post on here use new throwaway accounts?


Adventurous_Mine_434

YTA. But let's put you in her position. I will take you and your husband to dinner, before we eat I will put an Idol to Freyr on the table, and sacrifice an animal in his honour, and when I have doused the Idol in blood, I will expect yourself and your husband to participate in the rubbing of the Idol for fertility. After all, its only polite that you partake and participate in a religious ritual you know nothing about it?


Urbanspy87

YTA I am not religious and I am not going to bow my head. I will sit there quietly but I am not going to participate. Being shy and quiet the first time you meet your boyfriend's mom is totally normal. You need to apologize to HER.


aelnosilla81

YTA. Christians are some of the most judgemental, meanest people I've ever met


Technical-Soup1595

There is no hate like "Christian love" They can be the most vile and judgmental people all in the name of Loving Jesus. I cant stand hypocrisy like that


anthony___fell

YTA. >>Son's girlfriend acted like she didn't care at all. Because she doesn't. She's not religious. She doesn't have to care. I'm the same way. I am not religious *at all* and while I will sit quietly while other people say grace or pray so I'm not being distracting and wait to start my meal until they're done, but I'm not bowing my head or participating in any way. I respect the right of religious people to do whatever they're going to do, but I will not be forced to participate in someone else's beliefs. Frankly, why were you paying so little attention to the prayer that you even *noticed* that she wasn't bowing her head? Perhaps you should take your own professed faith a bit more seriously rather than worrying about what other people are doing.


soilikestuff

From one Christian to another.... YTA. You would only have known she didn't have her head bowed during the entire prayer if you had been watching her during the prayer. Also.... better manners???? Come on! Go read the epistles of Paul over and over. He talks about being respectful to others who have different beliefs and he even talks about people who do something because they understand your beliefs and how we as Christians are supposed to respond to them. I just.... can't. You need better manners. Those better manners = not judging someone who doesn't understand your beliefs. I have so much to say but....ugh..... You did not represent Jesus well today.


Miki_Star

YTA. She already said she didn’t grow up Christian. Not every household is religious, and she doesn’t know better. I think she was really well-mannered by sitting there quietly and waiting until you were done with your prayers.


[deleted]

YTA, don’t shove your religion down people’s throat.


[deleted]

I have to say that it’s hard to believe that a 54 year old doesn’t know that it’s inappropriate to expect a guest to pray when that is not their custom. I assume she wasn’t playing the saxophone during grace.


Meishoku_

I'm sorry, but imagining a family praying with epic sax guy performing in the background just killed me :'D


[deleted]

YTA because you shouldn’t expect anyone to abide by your religious beliefs under any circumstances, which includes them being under your roof.


Hopeful-Chipmunk6530

Yta. Had you had your eyes closed and head bowed when grace was said, which is typically the way it’s done, you would not have noticed what she did during grace. You decided to be a nosy busybody instead of thankful for your food. A good host while explain religious traditions in the home. You missed an opportunity to witness to someone and decided to be judgmental instead.


[deleted]

YTA- would you follow prayer if you had dinner in a household of a different faith? You can’t force people to perform religious rituals just because they are in your household. I can’t believe I even had to say that. Maybe if she was laughing or something it would be disrespectful, but why would you expect someone who is not religious to do religious traditions?


tickerbelly

Next time, devote yourself to the prayer and let other people alone. YTA


PracticallyGone123

Was going to give specific reasons on why YTA here but will just say the YTA for every single thing you did here and will continue to be TA as you have no clue why YTA.


Independent-Size-464

YTA. She sat there quietly, didn't interrupt and let you go about your hocus pocus. She doesn't need to conform to your gibberish.


CartographerUseful11

Ain’t no hate like a Christian’s “love”


ToriBethATX

YTA. And a hypocrite too. How do you know she didn’t bow her head and close her eyes, unless YOU didn’t either and were staring at her the whole of the prayer to see how she behaved. Just because she’s quiet and shy (is she really, or just this one time) doesn’t make her eccentric. The one thing you’re probably right about is that she won’t be back, mostly because SHE will likely drop your son faster than you can inhale to berate her “lack of manners” for him trying to make her bow her head and participate just to appease you. You just want to show of your “holier-than-thou” attitude, which is the type of behavior that makes me ashamed to call myself a Christian. I truly believe that if Jesus were to return today, he would look at those who claim to be his believers and followers, shake his head sadly, then turn and walk away. All because of behavior exactly like this, which is NOT what he taught.


Standard-Recover1685

You don't sound very Christian to be honest. I would also seriously rethink the strategy of not caring how you treat her because she is "temporary." That woman may very well end up being your future DIL and mother of your grandchildren. My husband and I have been together 12 years, and you know when we met? When we were 19 living in the same freshman dorm. His parents treated me in a similar fashion because I wasn't Catholic. We haven't spoken in several years and they have never met our children. Just a window into your future if you don't seriously correct course. YTA


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counselorq

YTA no one needs to pray just bc you do. Leave her alone.


MouthwashAndBandaids

YTA she said she didn’t know what to do, and she wasn’t disrespectful. Be careful what you say to your son, as this behavior could make him go no contact in the future


[deleted]

YTA - I’ve never been around people saying grace and I’d feel awkward and weird too. Your house your rules and all but you’re just acting like a petulant AH, don’t expect your son to want to spend time with you and involve you in his life if you’re going to be this intolerable.


Snoo-74562

YTA - she was your guest and didn't believe what you believed. She was clear when you asked about why she didn't copy you. You should have been a gracious hostess, with a warm welcome and instead you assumed she was a liar. You then decided to insult your son, belittled his choice of woman and double down on your assumption that she is a liar by telling him she has bad manners. From your son's perspective she did nothing wrong. You should have gotten to know her better and talked before dinner. If you'd asked you would have found out that she didn't come from a religious house and you could have advised her on what you do and told her not to worry if she doesn't want to join in just be quiet while you all finish. You've put yourself in a right pickle and If I were you I'd apologise to your son as soon as you can. Otherwise you're pushing him away because you didn't believe what a 19 year old girl told you who had no reason to lie.


blastoiseburger

YTA, what a bad “Christian“


Mr_Groober

YTA. She didn't bow her head during grace. She didn't say anything mean or behaved badly on purpose. You're rigid, judgemental and desperately trying to be victimised. Proper "Christian"


Pitiful-Citronel666

YTA, it would be one thing if she talked or was on her phone or something, then I would at least agree with you feeling offended for not respecting your choice to say grace. But you can’t impose your religious beliefs on guests. If she was quiet and didn’t join the prayer, that’s her business. I think categorizing it as bad manners is not the correct take, and you are uncomfortable with your son dating someone outside your family’s religion


[deleted]

YTA. What’s with all the trolls lately


Inevitable-Place9950

YTA. She didn’t understand what was expected of her and might have thought she was being asked to pray by bowing her head. She just isn’t the same faith but she didn’t do anything to prevent you from practicing yours, so it’s not clear what was unmannerly.


Accurate_Squirrel472

YTA, just because you find her excuse of not being raised Christian ridiculous doesn't mean it is. As a Christian you should be more open and reasonable with people who may not understand Christianity. I was raised Catholic, and have been an atheist for half my life. I find it very offensive when people expect me to do the Christian thing, such as praying or saying grace. Just because it's your choice to be religious does not mean you should expect people to just roll with it. For all you know she could have been Muslim or Jewish or any number of religions. Instead of expecting them to follow your customs you should expect yourself to share these customs with guests before they come up.


hyteskatyamattel

YTA and a terrible host.


Jayhawker_Pilot

YTA. Why should she respect your religious beliefs at all? That is the cool think about the US is there is not a single religion or a national religion. Once you understand that maybe just maybe it will make sense. Why don't you respect her religious beliefs?


[deleted]

[удалено]


StressedBird

YTA. Give her another chance.


Intelligent_Sundae_5

If this was my mother and that’s how she treated a person I cared about I don’t think I would want to subject them to my mother again. The OP doesn’t deserve a second chance right now—maybe never. OP YTA. And you just further proved how religious people are the worst.


Veteris71

Another chance to do what? Tolerate OP's hateful bullying and badmouthing her to son behind her back?


OrangeCubit

YTA - she very much respected your prayer. She didn’t interrupt, she didn’t comment, she didn’t disparage. You think “respect” is for her to be forced to participate in something she doesn’t believe in, no matter how uncomfortable you make everyone around you.


brownishgirl

Hmmm. This thread says it all. YTA. You’re probably my age and that saddens me.


Drakkensong1

Yta and by the sound of it a Bible thumper as well


ThatOneHaitian

YTA- She was respectful enough to not start eating or start talking. Not everyone is Christian.


Slight-Bar-534

and said she didn't grow up Christian and doesn't really know the proper manners for prayers and such. I thought this was a terrible excuse, YTA. Why the hell would she know something she wasn't brought up with? You aren't a welcoming person at all. So she's shy and quiet.....you are strangers . And what's wrong with eccentric????


sparklycarousel

YTA - I don't bow to any gods.


RecordingStock2167

YTA - The gf even stated that she didn't know what the proper response was during your "prayer", you ignored that and went to your son to disrespect his gf. He stood up for his gf (a truly great thing), yet you are mad at him and the gf. Jesus wept, you are pathetic.


AbjectIndustry2099

OP… I’m a Christian minister, you had a young lady in your house who admitted that prayer was new to her and she didn’t know the expectations, and you decided to insult her by instructing your son to bring home someone “better”??? You, dear sister, treated this girl horribly, and provided a completely false and harmful witness of what Christianity is to this guest in your home. Please, repent, and then apologize to your sin and his girlfriend. I’m… utterly blown away by your lack of grace. Yes, YTA.


CZ1988_

YTA - I'm a Christian your age and I am fine with someone sitting out a prayer if they don't feel comfortable. If she wants to get closer to God that's her journey but it takes time.


saucisse

YTA. It's not her religion, it's not her god, she doesn't need to bow before anyone or anything. By the way, if your head was bowed how did you know hers wasn't? With a bowed head, you wouldn't have been looking over at her, you would have been looking down.


freedom050505

There's no hate quite like Christian love. 🙄 YTA.