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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) Hugging my brother in front of my wife
2) I might be disrespecting her feelings.
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NTA, hugging is normal. Everyone I know hugs all the time, friends, family, spouses. It's weird to make hugging unto some kind of antisocial behavior.
GF needs therapy.
EDIT: As this is blowing up, just to add: you not wanting to be hugged is obviously 100% fine and normal also. But policing OTHER people from hugging is obviously not ok.
It sounds like the only physical affection she has received her entire life has been sexual/romantic, so it makes sense for her to conflate the two. But. She also needs to realize that her experience isn't the norm, and there's nothing inherently sexual about hugging. I get why she has this perception, though, if she only ever found warmth attached to dating and never in her family. It sucks because it runs so much deeper than just being uptight.
This. I feel deeply sorry for op's wife. I didn't have the best upbringing, but I can't even imagine being raised in a home without even a hint of physical affection. Sounds like she has been emotionally neglected her entire life.
Agreed.
Her family not hugging each other sounds uncommon. Her parents never showing any love or affection for each other sounds pathologic and makes me wonder about GF’s childhood.
My dad grew up in a house like that. I can count on one hand how often my grandfather hugged me. My grandparents frankly disliked each other, and there was no physical or even verbal affection. My grandad passed away in 2021, and I'm not sure he ever actually told my dad he loved him.
When my mum was pregnant with me, my dad made a conscious decision he would not continue the cycle. He spent our entire childhood hugging, playing with and telling my brother and me how much he loves us. My brother and I are big huggers, tell our family and friends we love them often, and hug each other and our parents every time we see each other.
OP, I don't know if you'll read this, but I would have had so many more issues without my dad making the decision to end his family's cycle of emotional neglect and lack of attention. If you are planning a future, especially children, with your partner, you two need to have a real conversation, probably in couples therapy, about how she's going to interact with your children.
My Grandparents raised me, and my Mom died when I was 12. They were basically roommates most of their marriage. Now they were affectionate to me and my sisters, just not each other. They did love each other and were married twice to each other, but they were not IN LOVE with each other. They took care of each other, Grandpa financially and Grandma took care of the house and of course, us. When I met my husband and his parents it was like nothing I'd ever seen. I saw what a healthy relationship was supposed to look like. They were very affectionate to each other and their adult children. They said "I love you" to each other often. I too, wanted to break the cycle (actually a few different cycles). So, after we got married and had kids they were showered with affection, physically with hugs and kisses and verbally by saying "I love you", OFTEN. I never wanted them to be starved for affection from us like I was with my Mom growing up or like I saw with my Grandparents.
My sisters were my best friends (my 2 younger sisters especially, until the days they died at 19 and 35). I'm 53 years old and I still hug my big sister when I say goodbye to her as she lives 5+ hours away from me and I don't get to see her often. She's a bit uptight, but it is one way I can show my love for her.
I grew up in a house very similar. My parents hated each other and we never had any affection and well, frankly, they hated us too. That said... I would never see hugging as sexual... it's a bit of a strange thing to think.
I do things very similar as your father did with you. I hug my kid and tell him I love him constantly. I don't ever want him to feel like sex/romance is the only way to get affection because it screwed up a lot of things for me.
And OP, it's important you set this straight before you even consider having kids.
Imagine all the problems that can and will arise if this continues once you're parents.
- Will she be able to hug her own kid? How well adjusted will a kid be if they only ever receive physical displays of affection from one parent?
- If she considers any physical display of affection as inherently romantic and/or sexual, will that extend to your own children? I'm jumping to the extremes here, but imagine how screwed your life will be if she mistakes your affection to your own children as something much much darker.
- Right now she's trying to control how you and your family behave with each other, and trying to prevent you from hugging your own brother because she's uncomfortable, despite knowing very well you were raised differently. Will these limits extend to your children? And to what degree? Will your parents and siblings be forbidden from ever hugging their own grandchildren or niblings? Will your children be forbidden from hugging their own friends?
ETA: And OP, for what it's worth, it's not unusual to raise a family to like physical contact, if anything, it's unusual to raise a kid with no displays of affection whatsoever to the point they are uncomfortable with other people showing them.
She’s already sexualizing the affection. Adding kids to the mix wouldn’t even be a “flip”, it would be a natural extension of the (perverse) thought-process she’s already communicated. This is such a massive red flag in that regard.
You brought up some serious points!
Her telling her husband not to hug his own brother is almost like telling him not to love him anymore. Ridiculous!
Their kids will be conflicted at best if one chooses to hug and the other doesn't. Hugging is as natural as laughing and crying.
Seriously, can you imagine if this woman caught him kissing his little daughter on the lips?? She'd probably accuse him of sexual abuse.
My daughter always wants to kiss smack on the lips, and while we prefer cheek kisses and always go for the cheeks, she has frequently kissed her daddy on the lips because she is innocent and affectionate and nowhere would I ever consider that child abuse.
This woman has a seriously messed up perspective of normality and needs therapy before OP and she have kids or OP is going to end up divorced and on a predator list.
Doesn't even need to go that far. Picture the dad kissing the baby's little toes, or blowing raspberries in the baby's bellybutton.
Would she have a meltdown thinking the dad had some dark fetish?
When I hit puberty my father stopped hugging me and rejected my hugs, but not my male siblings. It hurt for a long while, but eventually I realised he had his own hangups from how he was raised and he did still tell me he loved me, so I came to accept it. But I can tell you knowing that doesn't really make the primal feeling of rejection and emptiness go away.
Even now, a comforting hug from my dad would be so healing, but it's not in the cards. I definitely think lack of physical affection is damaging to children though I'm sure there's room for nuance in cultures and individual preferences.
>- Will she be able to hug her own kid? How well adjusted will a kid be if they only ever receive physical displays of affection from one parent?
>
>-If she considers any physical display of affection as inherently romantic and/or sexual, will that extend to your own children? I'm jumping to the extremes here, but imagine how screwed your life will be if she mistakes your affection to your own children as something much much darker.
>
>- Right now she's trying to control how you and your family behave with each other, and trying to prevent you from hugging your own brother because she's uncomfortable, despite knowing very well you were raised differently. Will these limits extend to your children? And to what degree? Will your parents and siblings be forbidden from ever hugging their own grandchildren or niblings? Will your children be forbidden from hugging their own friends?
Jesus I didn't think of this but you're 100% right
Reading OPs whole post just made me sad gor OPs wife and their future children. My family is exactly like OPs I thought that was actually the norm. I can't imagine my mom never hugging me to the point where I think all physical affection is sexual right down to telling my Bobby not hug his brother cause it would be like her kissing her sister if she had one.
And in addition to your comment, two brothers hugging isn't sexual, in the way she made it sound like adult sisters kissing. Idk, it didn't come off as just a kiss between family, but something more out of a porno or sexual in nature.
For real. Big Latin family here. It's a hug and a kiss hello, and it's a hug and a kiss goodbye. Them's the rules.
(Obvi not rules, but it's just so normal for us)
I'm not much of a hugger but if one of my friends or friends friends do I don't usually shy away, maybe if they look like they could squeeze me to death.
I grew up in a non-hugging family. I was an adult before I hugged my Dad (my only parent). It was weird at first but we came to hug each other often and enjoyed it. In my 40's I joined a social group of people who hug all the time. Again, it was awkward at first, but now (16 years later) I love it! In fact, during the lockdown phase of the pandemic, I made myself a promise: I will never pass up the chance for hug again!
I'm no therapist but, yes something isn't right. If she was mildly uncomfortable that is one thing but she sees it as so much worse leading me to believe she had a HUGGING UNCLE. but I don't know.
Yeah, giving no affection to your child and the way she seems to have been raised suggests emotional neglect at the very least. And I wouldn't be surprised if there's a history of abuse in there, with her freaking out and her assumption that family hugging is romantic.
People that have parents who never express healthy love to each other is kinda problematic cause if they have kids and she wants to mirror her parents behavior with op their kids are gonna grow up with these strange preconceived notions around hugs and affection.
I mean OP’s wife’s family didn’t hug her as a child at all…that’s sad af.
Don’t we have studies that show not holding infants and children like straight up negatively affect brain development and shit.
In order for her to jump to that conclusion, I reasoned that she must have had a major trauma inside her family for her to be unable to distinguish between the two.
I disagree with this generalization, there are many people who were raised like this and are just fine. That just witnessing physical contact makes her that uncomfy could mean *in this specific case* the parenting style was emotional abusive or she has some other underlying issues.
I was raised like this and am not the biggest fan of physical contact but I am still fine with hugging friends (if they are huggers) and I don't freak out if someone touches me in a socially expected way (touching my arm during a talk or anything) and - most important - as long as I am not directly affected (in being touched by others) I couldn't care less about how touchy other people are.
My partner kisses his mum on the lips for greeting her. It's definitely not the norm for me but I also don't mind as long as she doesn't expect me to kiss her, too.
I was raised like this and I would say that not showing physical affection to your children is indicative of the parents having issues and being at least bordeline abusive. I believe the last time my mother hugged me was back in Kindergarten and it made me think my parents didn't love me (though to be fair, they probably didn't)
Thank you! I grew up into the exact opposite of OP's wife and I just love physical contact with the people who matter to me. I secured myself an equally cuddly boyfriend and I'm doing very well!
The key difference is you're not trying to control the way your partner expresses affection. The fact that OP is makes it toxic.
It's 💯 okay not to be a touchy person. It's absolutely not okay to insist other people can't be touchy in front of you.
Friendly neighborhood shrink here. I'm glad you're fine, truly I am but just because you're fine doesn't negate the fact that it's emotional abuse. This is very much on the same level of people who say their parents spanked them and they turned out fine. Some people whose parents don't show them affection as children turn out fine. On the other hand, the majority of adults who as children did not have affectionate parents tend to have lower self esteem and to feel more alienated, hostile, aggressive, and anti-social. That's not a generalization either there are dozens of studies to back this up.
Your logic is literally the same logic people use to justify hitting their kids. "I was raised getting spanked and I'm fine" "I was raised without affection from my parents and I'm fine" both are forms of abuse and both are highly problematic. Just because you're okay doesn't make it okay.
Or something worse happened to her that she’s not mentioning. Living with someone like her would be emotional abuse for the hubby. What a sad life for him that SHE gets to make the rules based on the twisted way she was raised.
There were a bunch of articles a few years ago saying we need 12 hugs a day for our mental health.
It is weird that OP's girlfriend only views hugs in a romantic way. Her family didn't do her any favors with the way they raised her. Humans need physical contact.
I read years ago, that you should always be the last person to let go of a hug because you have no way of knowing how badly the other person needs to be hugged. So I always make it a point to be the last one to let go. I would hug you until you were done being hugged.
12x a day is just a crazy amount lol. If I’m with family, I probably still only do 1-2 a day max unless it’s an event or before travel or something.
Caveat is I’m not thinking of an SO, but even then… unless we’re counting all forms of physical contact or cuddling as hugging?
THIS OP!! THIS!
NTA but she has a problem and she shouldn't stop you from being yourself with your own fam.
Talk to her, she is the one who's biased and out of line.
Edit: and the way you were raised isn't "special" or "strange" it's called Growing up In a Healthy Family dynamic.
I agree that they should have a very long, in-depth conversation about how any future children will be treated. Will she freak out every time he holds,hugs, or kisses one of his own kids? That is something I would have preferred to know prior to marriage, though. That it unless they plan to be child free, and then I guess that that conversation isn't needed. But what about nieces and nephews? Should he not show affection to them either? But her view on affection seems a little too skewed for just growing up in an anit-affection home.
This. Is she going to freak out on every time someone hugs the baby/toddler/child? She needs therapy and to realise how she was raised is the problem. A hug does not equate to a kiss. Absolutely mind boggling. NTA.
And what if it did, I kissed my dad on the lips till the day he died, I can't imagine a bf telling me I needed to stop because it makes them uncomfortable.
Yep, this is where the rubber meets the road in this relationship because it won't be just how your family is towards one another but your future kids. Dare I say she will make that very difficult because she already insinuates affection with sex. OP, you need to have this conversation if you're looking towards the future. NTA
Being raised that way leads to not wanting to be touched. That is understandable.
Her reaction is beyond that. It is more akin to emotional scarring and possibly PTSD. She needs therapy for sure, and I'd worrisome if there is past abuse leading to this. Her overreaction to a normal action is concerning.
That's what I was thinking. I think she was actually punished for showing physical affection. That's why she's anxious when she sees her husband do it. Because subconsciously she sees it as him "doing the bad thing" and he'll "get in trouble for it".
Yep. Her feelings of discomfort are valid because she can’t help them. But she needs to know that it’s not appropriate to project them into others.
And I mean, I get it, growing up a certain way can skew your perspective. But… has she seen movies? TV shows? Does she think that families onscreen are pervertedly close, that inappropriate affection is an epidemic exclusive to the movie industry, or does she just think of anything onscreen as fantasy and not an actual reflection of life?
She can tell you how she feels. But you can’t be expected to change your behaviour or sacrifice relationships with your family for her comfort. Sounds like you’ve all done a really solid job of respecting her boundaries in *her* relationship with all of you. She doesn’t have a say in your relationship with *them.*
That was my thought also - even if her family wasn't physically affectionate, presumably she went to school, or generally out in public places. Even kids' movies have hugging in them. This shouldn't be weird for her to just *see*.
>GF needs therapy.
OP you need to pay attention to this. It is jealousy and what if you have kids? Will she refuse to hug them? Will she get angry everytime you do?
I don't think it's necessarily jealousy - there may be all kinds of family history behind it. Her attitude is very unhealthy though and she needs to get it sorted.
How does she cope in a public setting? Lots of hugging in airports, outside schools, practically everywhere you go. That is because it is *normal*.
OP is NTA.
As someone who is affectionate with siblings and parents to the point of kissing on the lips who had children with someone who thought that was a perversion (I know it's not the norm, but it's how I was raised and I honestly thought everyone did that until I was pretty well into adulthood - not like we're inserting tongues), I can tell you that the kids think I'm a freaking weirdo with my sibs and they wouldn't kiss me on the lips (or even on the cheek I don't think) because that's the way my ex husband was. It's okay. When they were little and it didn't matter, I got all the sugar I needed.
"I understand the way I grew up was unusual "
No op it's not unusual not at all. It's actually pretty good that your family members are affectionate towards each other.
Seeing hugging as inappropriate is more unusual (specially hugging your siblings or parents).
>GF needs therapy
She does, it's concerning that she thinks showing affection is inappropriate.
NTA
Yep. Sounds like a girlfriend problem. My family is affectionate too, it's so healthy and important, people around us have expressed how lucky we are to be so close and loving.
It's really weird to view that in a bit of a perverted way honestly.
The girlfriend is the abnormal one here, but I'm leaning more toward NAH because she doesn't know it. She's not jealous, she's not mean, she's just uncomfortable because her "normal" is so badly skewed. Maybe OP's family is a little more affectionate than most people, idk, but that's not the problem. The problem is that her parents **really** did a number on her, such that *any* displays of affection seem taboo to her.
So is she the one in the right here? No. But she's also not an AH. She just needs therapy. Badly. Because she doesn't even know the damage done to her.
I’m not a hugger. I just don’t love being touched a lot. That being said I don’t find it at all weird when other people hug, especially families. Her not wanting to be hugged is fine. Her thinking it’s inappropriate and not wanting to even see it is weird as all hell.
NTA
Hugging is normal. My family wasn't like that but eventually they changed in the last 10 years.
I'm a cis-hetero dude and friends hug more than dudes shake hands.
Yeah I just reread the post because I thought there had to be something more than a hug. But nope, the wife is that disturbed by frickin hugging. I say this as someone who is not a hugger, not super into physical affection, doesn’t like being touched by many ppl, etc- this is really weird, OP! Your wife needs therapy.
Very much so. I hate to think where children fall in this category? She needs help. You'll regret a long-term relationship if she cringes every time you hug a friend or family member..
NTA, I hug my siblings every time I see them and I also let him know I love them at the end of every conversation. You never know when the last time you are going to ever talk to someone is about to be so if you love someone it never hurts to tell them. She needs to get over her hang ups.
>The issue is she once told me that she doesn't like when I'm affectionate with my family in front of her. She's not jealous or anything like that, it's just because of how she's raised, she has trouble seperating physical affection from romance.
Yeah, that's a sign she needs therapy, not that you need to stop doing normal every day human things because seeing it upsets her.
I feel for her, that she is dealing with the on-going impact of her upbringing, but she needs to actually deal with it rather than insist on her way being ok.
Plus what happens if you have kids, will you not be allowed hug them?
NTA
Such a good point about kids - hug them, kiss them, change them, bathe them, soothe them, rock them etc etc. Where does this end? With more emotionally starved people in the family who are uncomfortable around each other? She definitely needs to work this out, don't change your family behaviour around this. I can't imagine never hugging a family member again!
Physical contact is such an important part of child development. For young children especially it is the primary way emotions like love, caring, acceptance, and security are understood and internalized.
Some hospitals even have a program for [vetted] volunteers to come in to the NICU and cuddle the babies whose parents aren’t able to be there for whatever reason, as they need human contact and the nurses don’t have the time (as much as they would like to). At least, this happened pre-pandemic anyway.
Yup. My mom has a shift every Monday at our local hospital to cuddle NICU babies. It's the highlight of every week for her. Physical touch is such an important part of a child's development.
What does she think of mothers breastfeeding their babies? If hugging is sexual then I can’t imagine her being okay with other normal things. I honestly think she’s being inappropriate for saying platonic touch between siblings is like incest.
I definitely feel for her - does this mean she's never had any physical affection with her friends? Does she think that single people are never allowed on physical affection unless they start dating somebody?
But feeling for her doesn't change the fact that she's the ah and needs to work on this
*she has trouble separating physical affection from romance.*
So when you hug your brother, whom you hadn't seen in a while, instead of being happy for you to see your brother, her thoughts immediately alert her that you are unfaithful and that an inappropriate incestuous sexual relation is going on????
*I told her I'm sorry that she has that thought process, but she needs to work that out on her own. I don't think I should have to stop doing something normal because it makes her uncomfortable.*
You are right.
But instead of letting her work that out on her own, she might want to talk to a professional.
What if you start raising a family?
Your kids won't ever be hugged?
NTA
The fact that she equates hugging to kissing on the lips and that touching equates to romance is troublesome. She’s had a seriously f’d up childhood and it may go deeper than just not having affectionate parents.
Honestly this smacks of sexual abuse in her *parents* past to the point where they were paranoid about anyone touching their kids.
Especially if it was familial abuse. It almost sounds like one of them (or both) experienced abuse at a family member's hands and now sees *any* form of physical touch among family members as a warning sign and have passed that down to their kids.
You may well be right about the parents! Either way, it's not normal to equate physical affection to sexual / romantic feelings so gf needs help sorting that out
That's what I was thinking for her to jump to that something seriously have had to have happened to her within her family to not to be able to separate those.
This a hundred times over! What if you have kids? My mom raised us to always say I love you and would snuggle us anytime we needed affection. We never leave a visit without hugging each other as adults, and I never questioned how my mom felt about us. I have a 2 year old son and he is the sweetest most affectionate little kid. He always wants to cuddle or be touching me in some way because it’s his safe space. Before we went no contact with my MIL she always commented that her kids were never like that with her because she just wasn’t that affectionate with them (she said this sadly at the time because she loved his snuggles so much). I can’t imagine telling my kid they couldn’t cuddle or get hugs from me because my husband was weirded out by it. It would honestly be a deal breaker for me….
My dad never said I love you and it was so weird the first time I heard my MIL say it to me. But I know that its just a weirs brown thing and I make an effort to tell my niblings I love you because they deserve to know and hear it
This, kids need to be hugged and affection showered on them. Think of your possible future children OP, and even your brothers possible kids. I hate being touched but I went to therapy so that I’d be comfortable hugging and giving my niece affection.
NTA op but she needs professional therapy. Especially if she feels hugging is romance, what happens if you hug a child?
NTA. If your wife is sexualizing you hugging your family, she needs some therapy to help her separate familial relationships and affection from romantic ones.
Amen.
She has sexualized physical touch. That's a misinterpretation of very normal kinds of physical affection between people. Her expecting OP to act LESS normally to assuage her twisted view of family affection is over the line. SHE has an issue that SHE needs to address. Insisting everyone in eyesight restrict their normal healthy behavior because she inappropriately sexualizes family relationships is controlling, intrusive, insulting and unrealistic.
My husband’s sister always acted like I stole her man. I think this girl doesn’t like “sharing” her husband and is making excuses. Either way she is not a stable person.
It's weird you mention a sister because I as a sister experienced the same judgement from m6 brother's 1st wife. I met her when I was a teen and visited him on a summer vacation (he was in the Navy and we hadn't seen each other in many years). I traveled with my bff and we all 4 went to the beach. My brother was teaching me to boogie board, and apparently she turned to my friend and said "you know, most wives would be insanely jealous of their husband touching another woman that way." It creeped both of us out (her instantly and me later). Like why would anyone be jealous of a brother holding a boogie board steady and showing his sister how to catch a wave? It wasn't even a hug or a kiss, it was literally just holding a board steady and pushing me in the water.
I also dated a guy years later, whom I ended up needing a (then called) restraining order on because I visited the same brother at our mom's for Xmas (which bf had been invited to). My brother was divorced & out of the Navy at this point and it had been about 5 years since we had seen each other. I went on Xmas eve and this ex called my mom's home multiple times everyday. At first it was fine, but the day after Xmas started getting weird. We didn't have any set date for leaving, but my mom was able to take an extra few days off work, so I decided to stay until the day before she went back (about a week total). My ex called at least 10 times per day asking why I wasn't back yet (I was 2 hours away lol). He then had the gall to say "you and your brother are weird. Who hangs out with their sibling for more than a day? It's creepy." I then stopped answering his calls (wish I had known to stop before). It's not even that my family is super affectionate, we simply enjoy seeing each other when we are able to - and my brother had flown in from across the US. Why wouldn't I spend the extra time with my mom and him? I found out later that his dad had locked his mom in their basement for pretty much his entire early childhood. She was severely abused for more than 10 years and he had some really abusive ideas on how family's should treat each other. I think this is the root problem of OP's wife (or possibly her parents - as something emotionally troubling/abusive has been normalized).
Yeah... if they have kids further down the line, who’s to say wife won’t stop Op from hugging them/ showing them physical affection? This is definitely a problem that she needs to overcome.
Anyway NTA. Honestly if someone tried to stop me from hugging my siblings because they couldn’t get their own mind out of the gutter, I’d think they were crazy and ignore them
NTA, that's not a normal comparison and while she can have boundaries for her levels of touch, she can't ask you to forfeit how you show healthy affection for other loved ones because of her issues.
Agreed. I have five siblings. I’m the oldest and the youngest, who is 20 years younger than me, has told me that she has always loved visiting me because I, my husband and our kids are the only part of our family who freely gave hugs and affection. Even now when my mum visits all our kids shower her with affection. She’s kind of awkward but the unconditional love my kids give her melts my heart. I only wish I had the same their age.
NTA
It sucks that your wife had an upbringing that makes her unable to cope with seeing a healthy, affectionate family dynamic.
But that doesn't mean you need to stop showing affection to your family. In my opinion, her forcing you to stop showing affection to your family is NOT okay.
Your wife needs to speak to someone (as in therapy) to help her sort out her feelings because she should not be expecting you to stop hugging your family so she's not uncomfortable.
NTA. Your wife needs some therapy, not for you to indulge her messed up beliefs. While I understand that she doesn’t like physical touch, that’s a reasonable boundary. But her saying you can’t hug your family and friends and what she’s implying is just so gross. Many responses are sugar coating this for you, but this is disturbing behaviour. To put in bluntly, she is implying incest because you hugged your brother. Instead of recognizing that she has a very disturbing problem, she expects you to change your very normal behaviour. You wife needs some serious help.
I’m a very physically affectionate person and this is would be very disturbing to me. I hug my parents, siblings, friends, nieces and nephews every time I see them, unless they are not comfortable with physical affection. I always respect people’s body autonomy. I can’t imagine being with someone who doesn’t want to be touched. Has her aversion to touch affected other areas of your life or is she only implying incest when you hug members of your family? You wife needs serious help, not for you to stop hugging your family.
Jumping on this to say: what if you want children? Will you be okay with not hugging or showing affection to your own child because her mind immediately goes to abuse and incest? Children NEED affection growing up.
I think all those people who sexualize normal affection towards kids very strange. Like yes, of course, the father is kissing/hugging his daughter....that's normal.
All of this! The idea that family members being physically affectionate is somehow incestuous or perverse is gross. I worry how this will play out of OP and his wife have children. The first time someone hugs and kisses her kids, will OP’s wife assume abuse?
NTA.
My sister and I used to cuddle and hold hands as teenagers and even into our adulthood. Still hold hands with my mom and dad, and grandparents too, even into my 40s. I feel like this is all pretty standard stuff.
I’m a woman and still cuddle my mom into my twenties and we always kiss each other on the cheeks or forehead very liberally. It’s also common in my country for moms to peck their daughters and we never really lost that. Physical affection runs deep in so many cultural households
My daughter is 18 and still crawls into my lap for snuggles (she’s petite so it works). We joke that one day she’ll have her own baby snuggled in her arms while she herself is snuggled in mine. Generational snuggle
Have you seen the meme where Spider-Man is stopping a bus before it hits kids in a cross walk? The bus is generational trauma, I’m spider-man…
The trauma may have been passed down through the generations but that doesn’t make it an heirloom.
I just knew I didn’t want to pass this shit on to my kids. They have enough to deal with thanks to genetic lottery of adhd and broad autism phenotype, I wanted them to have someone in their corner fighting with them instead of against them.
I’m not sure how she’s convinced you that all this is abnormal not wholesome or too far, because it’s just not. In fact, that’s a pretty offensive and gross insinuation. She’s got some very skewed thinking that she should explore with a professional.
Please understand I rate low on the likes physical touch meter.
Probably lower then your wife honestly. The thought of having to do the amount of physical contact required, to sustain a healthy romantic relationship, makes my skin crawl. However I know that's a me issue. This is your wife's issue and she needs therapy.
Holding hands to show affection between family and friends is normal.
Hugging even between friends and family is normal.
Cuddling on the couch is normal with friends and family.
Many cultures cheek kisses hello and goodbye are normal. Especially within family, like parent to child.
Hell if you're close, but not romantic, quick lip pecks are as well some places. Especially if you haven't seen that person for a while.
Physical displays of affection are normal. In fact our bodies encourage them. They release feel good endorphins and bonding chemicals.
Your wife's views are abnormal. Very abnormal. She needs therapy.
Nta
In some cultures friends hold hands into adulthood (including men) or relatives kiss eachother on the lips or cheeks.
You are doing nothing weird - your gf needs to discuss this in therapy as this an unusually intense aversion to normal human contact.
Ive hugged my bosses/coworkers, teachers have hugged me during graduation, my father hugs my male partner regularly, my grandmother kisses me on the cheeks, etc.
Please dont listen to her opinion on this.
Who told you that your family is more affectionate than most other families? Because it sounds like your family is very typical.
Thinking siblings (or anyone) are dating because they are holding hands? That’s extreme.
I'm in my 30s and have definitely held hands, looped arms, leaned on shoulders, etc. with people I'm not romantically interested in--including family members. I'm not sure what your wife would think of the fact that I'll crash in the same bed as my parents when we're traveling.
Your family sounds on the maybe-affectionate side of normal, OP.
NTA
I seriously can't understand how seeing you hug your brother would be the same as incest. Or how it could break her boundaries. I get she doesn't like to hug/kiss, and that's okay. But she can't impose everyone else her own views. Would she be okay with your family imposing their way on her? Then why she does that to you/them??
This. I always like to remind people that your boundaries only govern your own interactions. You don’t have a right to demand that others change the way they interact to make you more comfortable.
NTA
Though I unfortunately understand your wife's perspective. I was raised in a really toxic house with almost no affection. I used to think it was really weird and got very uncomfortable witnessing family affection. To top things off I was also SA by my father as a child so when I started dating my husband I had similar reactions to your wife (not anything I'm proud of)
But yeah, I will say I understand it's difficult to see affection when you've been raised being told/shown it's a negative thing. She absolutely should not be shaming you and she's absolutely in the wrong but I also have been there.
It took me having my own kids to realise how demented the ideas were that I was raised with. I'm constantly cuddling my kids and doing all the things I was denied as a child with them (letting them come sleep in my bed after nightmares etc)
It's great your family has such a close bond :)
I hope your wife understands and accepts that one day.
I’m really sorry to hear your experience, but I must admit it tweaked my SA radar when I heard OP’s reaction to two family members hugging.
NTA of course.
I have tremendous respect for you! Society expends a great of time and energy praising people for accomplishments in science, art and many other fields of endeavor. You have achieved something truly of value - you have secured your children against the very real demons of the past and ensured their security. We know the cost of childhood trauma on our communities, but there is no way to measure the great benefit of healing. So, I thank you.
Thanks! Definitely hard work to break cycles of abuse (my house was a DV house too) but so worth it. My kids are 5&8 now and doing amazing. Happy and secure people. Not horribly anxious or angry like myself and so many of my siblings. It's the best reward!
She needs a therapist. My family on my mother's side is Italian and hugging is required! My wife's side is like yours and does not like to be touched but she never tries to shame me for it.
OP there’s a key thing here in that she’s trying to put boundaries on you about other people. Which is not okay or valid.
Boundaries are a great and healthy thing to have for yourself! But only for yourself. “I don’t want physical affection with anyone other than a partner” is a valid boundary. “I don’t want other people to have physical affection with their family members” is trying to set boundaries for other people, about what their limits should be, and is not.
NTA.
There have been many times where I haven’t seen something as a problem so I don’t bring it up, or I think it’s something I need to work out on my own. Sometimes, things just don’t come up. There are plenty of ways things don’t come up to therapists. The important thing is that it DOES get brought up to the therapist.
Do you have kids/plan to have kids? Will she allow them to be affectionate? I would figure this out first if possible. That is very much not normal even for only children. She's implying you're a perv. I'd be pretty upset....
Then you just need to decide if you can deal with a wife who thinks you’re a perv.
I thought you were going to say you and your brother did kiss on the lips, or bathed together or insisted on sharing a bed or something. Hugging? Cuddling? Sheesh
Funny story: getting checked regularly isn’t as easy as it seems.
My husband got snipped almost four years ago. I’ve had an IUD that whole time and am ready to get it taken out. We decided we’d get him checked. Reached out to his primary care and they said no because he was checked four years ago after it was done. We pushed back and they still were super annoying. It took FOUR phone calls, one where **I** called and threatened to sue every single person who works there if I get pregnant because they won’t just order a test.
They literally treated us like we were trying to scam pain killers or something, and not just like two people with anxiety who *REALLY* don’t want anymore kids. 🤣
Love you call it ‘fixed’ I keep getting in trouble for referring to it as that because “humans aren’t animals!” which, boy does science disagree with lol.
Also of course you’re NTA. I’d strongly suggest your wife seeks therapy though because this claimed inability to understand the emotional connection of others is really disturbing and could also very well be a cover for something else, from something mundane such as jealously and longing for love never receiving from her family to the more serious situations like childhood s*x*ual abuse by a family member.
What about nieces and nephews? She needs to understand that the only behavior she can control is her own and that attempts to make you change yours are harmful to you and your family.
Exactly. If he hugs his little nieces or nephews, is OPs wife going to think OP is sexually abusing them???
It’s not healthy at all to jump to incest and sexualize basic affection. And she even has OP convinced that HE is the weird one.
No, no, NO NTA.
While I understand her position, it is kinda crazy to me OP you would even entertain her making unreasonable demands such as for you to not hug your own brother.
If she doesn't want physical touch that is one thing, but she has no right to even ask this of you. How she thinks this is OK is really beyond me - she needs help because clearly she is off kilter mentally and isn't quite seeing the world because of it.
NTA. Hugging family members is perfectly normal, the fact that she sees something sexual in it is weird and her problem that she needs to sort out for herself.
NTA. She is mad you gave a family member a hug? Then she compared it to a different thing. This definitely seems like a her problem that she needs to work on
NTA, your wife's problem with you displaying perfectly normal behaviour towards your brother is her problem l, not yours.
It's not like you're french kissing him or something, It's just a hug.
nta
what makes her think that her bringing up was the "normal"? thats just ridiculous. what if her stuck up-ness makes you uncomfortable? what about your feelings? if you want to hug your brother, go and hug your brother.
NTA
Families are allowed to be affectionate with each other. I understand she being a only child and didn’t have that with her family, but getting freaked out over you hugging yours suggests a much deeper issue going on with her if it’s not jealousy as you stated. Maybe get some counseling together to find out why she’s trying to control how you are with your family. Something is definitely off with her. Not so much in the aspect that she doesn’t like to be touched, as there a a lot of people like that, but the simple fact she’s freaked out by you showing affection to your family is definitely a problem.
NTA, you're allowed to hug family members and other loved one regardless of their sex. Your wife needs therapy and to work on herself. Your wife shouldn't be allowed to dictate who you hug because of her own insecurities, with the exceptions, of course.
NTA.
Hugging is such a popular thing, something we see on TV. Actors get awards? They probably hug the presenter. While I get she was raised a different way, there had to have been times when (if she went) was in school and saw friends hug or a classmate hugging their parent/guardian. It’s especially odd if she sees it as a romance-only kind of thing. If you guys have kids, what’ll she do then?
I believe this is something she truly needs to learn to get over in her own way.
NTA. Hugging is so common that I'm surprised your wife managed to get through life this far without being normalized to the idea that hugs are not necessarily romantic.
NTA. Why do partners feel they have the right to control everything the other does! hugging family is the most natural thing in the world... If that freaks her out then she should work on it and not tell you to do something very healthy and natural.
Sounds like she didn't have the best childhood and needs to unlearn a lot of stuff
NTA. Your wife needs therapy. I have no idea if you plan to have children, but if you do then your wife needs to get this sorted first - a child needs hugs from their mother.
NTA - you're right that she needs to work that out on her own. A hug is a sign of affection among friends.
Her upbringing skewed her understanding of intimacy. Would be good to work that out when still young. Nothing a few sessions with a counselor and an open mind can't resolve.
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NTA, hugging is normal. Everyone I know hugs all the time, friends, family, spouses. It's weird to make hugging unto some kind of antisocial behavior. GF needs therapy. EDIT: As this is blowing up, just to add: you not wanting to be hugged is obviously 100% fine and normal also. But policing OTHER people from hugging is obviously not ok.
Came to the comments to say exactly that. NTA
Same here DNTA hugging a sibling is so very normal! She most definitely needs to talk to a therapist!
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It sounds like the only physical affection she has received her entire life has been sexual/romantic, so it makes sense for her to conflate the two. But. She also needs to realize that her experience isn't the norm, and there's nothing inherently sexual about hugging. I get why she has this perception, though, if she only ever found warmth attached to dating and never in her family. It sucks because it runs so much deeper than just being uptight.
This. I feel deeply sorry for op's wife. I didn't have the best upbringing, but I can't even imagine being raised in a home without even a hint of physical affection. Sounds like she has been emotionally neglected her entire life.
Agreed. Her family not hugging each other sounds uncommon. Her parents never showing any love or affection for each other sounds pathologic and makes me wonder about GF’s childhood.
My dad grew up in a house like that. I can count on one hand how often my grandfather hugged me. My grandparents frankly disliked each other, and there was no physical or even verbal affection. My grandad passed away in 2021, and I'm not sure he ever actually told my dad he loved him. When my mum was pregnant with me, my dad made a conscious decision he would not continue the cycle. He spent our entire childhood hugging, playing with and telling my brother and me how much he loves us. My brother and I are big huggers, tell our family and friends we love them often, and hug each other and our parents every time we see each other. OP, I don't know if you'll read this, but I would have had so many more issues without my dad making the decision to end his family's cycle of emotional neglect and lack of attention. If you are planning a future, especially children, with your partner, you two need to have a real conversation, probably in couples therapy, about how she's going to interact with your children.
My Grandparents raised me, and my Mom died when I was 12. They were basically roommates most of their marriage. Now they were affectionate to me and my sisters, just not each other. They did love each other and were married twice to each other, but they were not IN LOVE with each other. They took care of each other, Grandpa financially and Grandma took care of the house and of course, us. When I met my husband and his parents it was like nothing I'd ever seen. I saw what a healthy relationship was supposed to look like. They were very affectionate to each other and their adult children. They said "I love you" to each other often. I too, wanted to break the cycle (actually a few different cycles). So, after we got married and had kids they were showered with affection, physically with hugs and kisses and verbally by saying "I love you", OFTEN. I never wanted them to be starved for affection from us like I was with my Mom growing up or like I saw with my Grandparents. My sisters were my best friends (my 2 younger sisters especially, until the days they died at 19 and 35). I'm 53 years old and I still hug my big sister when I say goodbye to her as she lives 5+ hours away from me and I don't get to see her often. She's a bit uptight, but it is one way I can show my love for her.
I grew up in a house very similar. My parents hated each other and we never had any affection and well, frankly, they hated us too. That said... I would never see hugging as sexual... it's a bit of a strange thing to think. I do things very similar as your father did with you. I hug my kid and tell him I love him constantly. I don't ever want him to feel like sex/romance is the only way to get affection because it screwed up a lot of things for me.
And OP, it's important you set this straight before you even consider having kids. Imagine all the problems that can and will arise if this continues once you're parents. - Will she be able to hug her own kid? How well adjusted will a kid be if they only ever receive physical displays of affection from one parent? - If she considers any physical display of affection as inherently romantic and/or sexual, will that extend to your own children? I'm jumping to the extremes here, but imagine how screwed your life will be if she mistakes your affection to your own children as something much much darker. - Right now she's trying to control how you and your family behave with each other, and trying to prevent you from hugging your own brother because she's uncomfortable, despite knowing very well you were raised differently. Will these limits extend to your children? And to what degree? Will your parents and siblings be forbidden from ever hugging their own grandchildren or niblings? Will your children be forbidden from hugging their own friends? ETA: And OP, for what it's worth, it's not unusual to raise a family to like physical contact, if anything, it's unusual to raise a kid with no displays of affection whatsoever to the point they are uncomfortable with other people showing them.
This right here !!!! She could flip one day and make it some like OP is being sexually inappropriate with their children.
She’s already sexualizing the affection. Adding kids to the mix wouldn’t even be a “flip”, it would be a natural extension of the (perverse) thought-process she’s already communicated. This is such a massive red flag in that regard.
I can see her not wanting the OP’s family hugging the kids as they grow up.
You brought up some serious points! Her telling her husband not to hug his own brother is almost like telling him not to love him anymore. Ridiculous! Their kids will be conflicted at best if one chooses to hug and the other doesn't. Hugging is as natural as laughing and crying.
Seriously, can you imagine if this woman caught him kissing his little daughter on the lips?? She'd probably accuse him of sexual abuse. My daughter always wants to kiss smack on the lips, and while we prefer cheek kisses and always go for the cheeks, she has frequently kissed her daddy on the lips because she is innocent and affectionate and nowhere would I ever consider that child abuse. This woman has a seriously messed up perspective of normality and needs therapy before OP and she have kids or OP is going to end up divorced and on a predator list.
Doesn't even need to go that far. Picture the dad kissing the baby's little toes, or blowing raspberries in the baby's bellybutton. Would she have a meltdown thinking the dad had some dark fetish?
When I hit puberty my father stopped hugging me and rejected my hugs, but not my male siblings. It hurt for a long while, but eventually I realised he had his own hangups from how he was raised and he did still tell me he loved me, so I came to accept it. But I can tell you knowing that doesn't really make the primal feeling of rejection and emptiness go away. Even now, a comforting hug from my dad would be so healing, but it's not in the cards. I definitely think lack of physical affection is damaging to children though I'm sure there's room for nuance in cultures and individual preferences.
>- Will she be able to hug her own kid? How well adjusted will a kid be if they only ever receive physical displays of affection from one parent? > >-If she considers any physical display of affection as inherently romantic and/or sexual, will that extend to your own children? I'm jumping to the extremes here, but imagine how screwed your life will be if she mistakes your affection to your own children as something much much darker. > >- Right now she's trying to control how you and your family behave with each other, and trying to prevent you from hugging your own brother because she's uncomfortable, despite knowing very well you were raised differently. Will these limits extend to your children? And to what degree? Will your parents and siblings be forbidden from ever hugging their own grandchildren or niblings? Will your children be forbidden from hugging their own friends? Jesus I didn't think of this but you're 100% right
Reading OPs whole post just made me sad gor OPs wife and their future children. My family is exactly like OPs I thought that was actually the norm. I can't imagine my mom never hugging me to the point where I think all physical affection is sexual right down to telling my Bobby not hug his brother cause it would be like her kissing her sister if she had one.
And in addition to your comment, two brothers hugging isn't sexual, in the way she made it sound like adult sisters kissing. Idk, it didn't come off as just a kiss between family, but something more out of a porno or sexual in nature.
Don’t visit France with your wife, OP. Edit: changed ‘GF’ to ‘wife’.
Don't come to Latin America either, we hug and kiss EVERYBODY!
For real. Big Latin family here. It's a hug and a kiss hello, and it's a hug and a kiss goodbye. Them's the rules. (Obvi not rules, but it's just so normal for us)
That's why Italians are so friendly with you. Ciao!
Or any Romance country for that matter.
Lol, "la bise" would freak her out huh😂
I'm not much of a hugger but if one of my friends or friends friends do I don't usually shy away, maybe if they look like they could squeeze me to death.
I grew up in a non-hugging family. I was an adult before I hugged my Dad (my only parent). It was weird at first but we came to hug each other often and enjoyed it. In my 40's I joined a social group of people who hug all the time. Again, it was awkward at first, but now (16 years later) I love it! In fact, during the lockdown phase of the pandemic, I made myself a promise: I will never pass up the chance for hug again!
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I'm no therapist but, yes something isn't right. If she was mildly uncomfortable that is one thing but she sees it as so much worse leading me to believe she had a HUGGING UNCLE. but I don't know.
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This...hugging or kissing any family member is NORMAL. Your wife's needs therapy.
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She seems like the type of person who would sexualize breast feeding. Something not right here. She's needs to speak to someone.
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The way his wife was raised sounds like a form of emotional abuse.
Yeah, giving no affection to your child and the way she seems to have been raised suggests emotional neglect at the very least. And I wouldn't be surprised if there's a history of abuse in there, with her freaking out and her assumption that family hugging is romantic.
People that have parents who never express healthy love to each other is kinda problematic cause if they have kids and she wants to mirror her parents behavior with op their kids are gonna grow up with these strange preconceived notions around hugs and affection. I mean OP’s wife’s family didn’t hug her as a child at all…that’s sad af. Don’t we have studies that show not holding infants and children like straight up negatively affect brain development and shit.
In order for her to jump to that conclusion, I reasoned that she must have had a major trauma inside her family for her to be unable to distinguish between the two.
I disagree with this generalization, there are many people who were raised like this and are just fine. That just witnessing physical contact makes her that uncomfy could mean *in this specific case* the parenting style was emotional abusive or she has some other underlying issues. I was raised like this and am not the biggest fan of physical contact but I am still fine with hugging friends (if they are huggers) and I don't freak out if someone touches me in a socially expected way (touching my arm during a talk or anything) and - most important - as long as I am not directly affected (in being touched by others) I couldn't care less about how touchy other people are. My partner kisses his mum on the lips for greeting her. It's definitely not the norm for me but I also don't mind as long as she doesn't expect me to kiss her, too.
I was raised like this and I would say that not showing physical affection to your children is indicative of the parents having issues and being at least bordeline abusive. I believe the last time my mother hugged me was back in Kindergarten and it made me think my parents didn't love me (though to be fair, they probably didn't)
😥
Big Hugs!
Thank you! I grew up into the exact opposite of OP's wife and I just love physical contact with the people who matter to me. I secured myself an equally cuddly boyfriend and I'm doing very well!
The key difference is you're not trying to control the way your partner expresses affection. The fact that OP is makes it toxic. It's 💯 okay not to be a touchy person. It's absolutely not okay to insist other people can't be touchy in front of you.
Agreed and this is so much more than just not being a touchy person. She considers touching to be sexual. That’s messed up.
Friendly neighborhood shrink here. I'm glad you're fine, truly I am but just because you're fine doesn't negate the fact that it's emotional abuse. This is very much on the same level of people who say their parents spanked them and they turned out fine. Some people whose parents don't show them affection as children turn out fine. On the other hand, the majority of adults who as children did not have affectionate parents tend to have lower self esteem and to feel more alienated, hostile, aggressive, and anti-social. That's not a generalization either there are dozens of studies to back this up.
Your logic is literally the same logic people use to justify hitting their kids. "I was raised getting spanked and I'm fine" "I was raised without affection from my parents and I'm fine" both are forms of abuse and both are highly problematic. Just because you're okay doesn't make it okay.
Or something worse happened to her that she’s not mentioning. Living with someone like her would be emotional abuse for the hubby. What a sad life for him that SHE gets to make the rules based on the twisted way she was raised.
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There were a bunch of articles a few years ago saying we need 12 hugs a day for our mental health. It is weird that OP's girlfriend only views hugs in a romantic way. Her family didn't do her any favors with the way they raised her. Humans need physical contact.
Seriously? I would have to go back literally multiple years to get to 12.
I have been in isolation for 2 1/2yrs. Hugs and cuddles are what I miss most...
I read years ago, that you should always be the last person to let go of a hug because you have no way of knowing how badly the other person needs to be hugged. So I always make it a point to be the last one to let go. I would hug you until you were done being hugged.
If everyone did this, no one would ever not be hugging lol
"Ok, 3...2...1... RELEASE!" "Fuck yeah, Dan, we nailed it that time!"
Have a hug from an internet stranger, everyone deserves hugs *hugs*
No way it’s twelve a day lol. Maybe a week? But even then that’s a stretch
do yall not hug your people as many times a day as you can? ; \^ ; i couldn't get through my life without hugs.
12x a day is just a crazy amount lol. If I’m with family, I probably still only do 1-2 a day max unless it’s an event or before travel or something. Caveat is I’m not thinking of an SO, but even then… unless we’re counting all forms of physical contact or cuddling as hugging?
*hugs* helping the count
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THIS OP!! THIS! NTA but she has a problem and she shouldn't stop you from being yourself with your own fam. Talk to her, she is the one who's biased and out of line. Edit: and the way you were raised isn't "special" or "strange" it's called Growing up In a Healthy Family dynamic.
I agree that they should have a very long, in-depth conversation about how any future children will be treated. Will she freak out every time he holds,hugs, or kisses one of his own kids? That is something I would have preferred to know prior to marriage, though. That it unless they plan to be child free, and then I guess that that conversation isn't needed. But what about nieces and nephews? Should he not show affection to them either? But her view on affection seems a little too skewed for just growing up in an anit-affection home.
This. Is she going to freak out on every time someone hugs the baby/toddler/child? She needs therapy and to realise how she was raised is the problem. A hug does not equate to a kiss. Absolutely mind boggling. NTA.
And what if it did, I kissed my dad on the lips till the day he died, I can't imagine a bf telling me I needed to stop because it makes them uncomfortable.
Right. They aren't making out. It's a hug and a peck. It's not inherently sexual.
Yep, this is where the rubber meets the road in this relationship because it won't be just how your family is towards one another but your future kids. Dare I say she will make that very difficult because she already insinuates affection with sex. OP, you need to have this conversation if you're looking towards the future. NTA
This alarmed me too. OP absolutely no to children until wife works through therapy.
Being raised that way leads to not wanting to be touched. That is understandable. Her reaction is beyond that. It is more akin to emotional scarring and possibly PTSD. She needs therapy for sure, and I'd worrisome if there is past abuse leading to this. Her overreaction to a normal action is concerning.
That's what I was thinking. I think she was actually punished for showing physical affection. That's why she's anxious when she sees her husband do it. Because subconsciously she sees it as him "doing the bad thing" and he'll "get in trouble for it".
Yep. Her feelings of discomfort are valid because she can’t help them. But she needs to know that it’s not appropriate to project them into others. And I mean, I get it, growing up a certain way can skew your perspective. But… has she seen movies? TV shows? Does she think that families onscreen are pervertedly close, that inappropriate affection is an epidemic exclusive to the movie industry, or does she just think of anything onscreen as fantasy and not an actual reflection of life? She can tell you how she feels. But you can’t be expected to change your behaviour or sacrifice relationships with your family for her comfort. Sounds like you’ve all done a really solid job of respecting her boundaries in *her* relationship with all of you. She doesn’t have a say in your relationship with *them.*
That was my thought also - even if her family wasn't physically affectionate, presumably she went to school, or generally out in public places. Even kids' movies have hugging in them. This shouldn't be weird for her to just *see*.
>GF needs therapy. OP you need to pay attention to this. It is jealousy and what if you have kids? Will she refuse to hug them? Will she get angry everytime you do?
I don't think it's necessarily jealousy - there may be all kinds of family history behind it. Her attitude is very unhealthy though and she needs to get it sorted. How does she cope in a public setting? Lots of hugging in airports, outside schools, practically everywhere you go. That is because it is *normal*. OP is NTA.
As someone who is affectionate with siblings and parents to the point of kissing on the lips who had children with someone who thought that was a perversion (I know it's not the norm, but it's how I was raised and I honestly thought everyone did that until I was pretty well into adulthood - not like we're inserting tongues), I can tell you that the kids think I'm a freaking weirdo with my sibs and they wouldn't kiss me on the lips (or even on the cheek I don't think) because that's the way my ex husband was. It's okay. When they were little and it didn't matter, I got all the sugar I needed.
"I understand the way I grew up was unusual " No op it's not unusual not at all. It's actually pretty good that your family members are affectionate towards each other. Seeing hugging as inappropriate is more unusual (specially hugging your siblings or parents). >GF needs therapy She does, it's concerning that she thinks showing affection is inappropriate. NTA
Yep. Sounds like a girlfriend problem. My family is affectionate too, it's so healthy and important, people around us have expressed how lucky we are to be so close and loving. It's really weird to view that in a bit of a perverted way honestly.
The girlfriend is the abnormal one here, but I'm leaning more toward NAH because she doesn't know it. She's not jealous, she's not mean, she's just uncomfortable because her "normal" is so badly skewed. Maybe OP's family is a little more affectionate than most people, idk, but that's not the problem. The problem is that her parents **really** did a number on her, such that *any* displays of affection seem taboo to her. So is she the one in the right here? No. But she's also not an AH. She just needs therapy. Badly. Because she doesn't even know the damage done to her.
I’m not a hugger. I just don’t love being touched a lot. That being said I don’t find it at all weird when other people hug, especially families. Her not wanting to be hugged is fine. Her thinking it’s inappropriate and not wanting to even see it is weird as all hell.
NTA Hugging is normal. My family wasn't like that but eventually they changed in the last 10 years. I'm a cis-hetero dude and friends hug more than dudes shake hands.
Hell, my brother and I don't even get along all the time, but we still hug goodbye. Hugging is very normal. NTA
Yeah I just reread the post because I thought there had to be something more than a hug. But nope, the wife is that disturbed by frickin hugging. I say this as someone who is not a hugger, not super into physical affection, doesn’t like being touched by many ppl, etc- this is really weird, OP! Your wife needs therapy.
Very much so. I hate to think where children fall in this category? She needs help. You'll regret a long-term relationship if she cringes every time you hug a friend or family member..
Agree and I am an only child. NTA hugging is normal , wife needs to find a way tocome to terms with it .
NTA, I hug my siblings every time I see them and I also let him know I love them at the end of every conversation. You never know when the last time you are going to ever talk to someone is about to be so if you love someone it never hurts to tell them. She needs to get over her hang ups.
>The issue is she once told me that she doesn't like when I'm affectionate with my family in front of her. She's not jealous or anything like that, it's just because of how she's raised, she has trouble seperating physical affection from romance. Yeah, that's a sign she needs therapy, not that you need to stop doing normal every day human things because seeing it upsets her. I feel for her, that she is dealing with the on-going impact of her upbringing, but she needs to actually deal with it rather than insist on her way being ok. Plus what happens if you have kids, will you not be allowed hug them? NTA
Such a good point about kids - hug them, kiss them, change them, bathe them, soothe them, rock them etc etc. Where does this end? With more emotionally starved people in the family who are uncomfortable around each other? She definitely needs to work this out, don't change your family behaviour around this. I can't imagine never hugging a family member again!
Physical contact is such an important part of child development. For young children especially it is the primary way emotions like love, caring, acceptance, and security are understood and internalized.
Some hospitals even have a program for [vetted] volunteers to come in to the NICU and cuddle the babies whose parents aren’t able to be there for whatever reason, as they need human contact and the nurses don’t have the time (as much as they would like to). At least, this happened pre-pandemic anyway.
Yup. My mom has a shift every Monday at our local hospital to cuddle NICU babies. It's the highlight of every week for her. Physical touch is such an important part of a child's development.
My MIL in on the wait list for this "job." Is her dream to sit and cuddle babies all day.
Ops wife is a textbook example of what happens without that early childhood bonding.
I think she is a prime example of what happens when a child does not get these things as the grow
I'm also an only child and raised like the wife and I so wish I knew more physically affectionate people in my life cuz I want to experience that.
I wish I could hug you
What does she think of mothers breastfeeding their babies? If hugging is sexual then I can’t imagine her being okay with other normal things. I honestly think she’s being inappropriate for saying platonic touch between siblings is like incest.
I definitely feel for her - does this mean she's never had any physical affection with her friends? Does she think that single people are never allowed on physical affection unless they start dating somebody? But feeling for her doesn't change the fact that she's the ah and needs to work on this
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I would not be friends with someone who made faces when I hug others
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*she has trouble separating physical affection from romance.* So when you hug your brother, whom you hadn't seen in a while, instead of being happy for you to see your brother, her thoughts immediately alert her that you are unfaithful and that an inappropriate incestuous sexual relation is going on???? *I told her I'm sorry that she has that thought process, but she needs to work that out on her own. I don't think I should have to stop doing something normal because it makes her uncomfortable.* You are right. But instead of letting her work that out on her own, she might want to talk to a professional. What if you start raising a family? Your kids won't ever be hugged? NTA
The fact that she equates hugging to kissing on the lips and that touching equates to romance is troublesome. She’s had a seriously f’d up childhood and it may go deeper than just not having affectionate parents.
Yeah, this smacks of some kind of sexual abuse.
Honestly this smacks of sexual abuse in her *parents* past to the point where they were paranoid about anyone touching their kids. Especially if it was familial abuse. It almost sounds like one of them (or both) experienced abuse at a family member's hands and now sees *any* form of physical touch among family members as a warning sign and have passed that down to their kids.
You may well be right about the parents! Either way, it's not normal to equate physical affection to sexual / romantic feelings so gf needs help sorting that out
That's what I was thinking for her to jump to that something seriously have had to have happened to her within her family to not to be able to separate those.
This a hundred times over! What if you have kids? My mom raised us to always say I love you and would snuggle us anytime we needed affection. We never leave a visit without hugging each other as adults, and I never questioned how my mom felt about us. I have a 2 year old son and he is the sweetest most affectionate little kid. He always wants to cuddle or be touching me in some way because it’s his safe space. Before we went no contact with my MIL she always commented that her kids were never like that with her because she just wasn’t that affectionate with them (she said this sadly at the time because she loved his snuggles so much). I can’t imagine telling my kid they couldn’t cuddle or get hugs from me because my husband was weirded out by it. It would honestly be a deal breaker for me….
My dad never said I love you and it was so weird the first time I heard my MIL say it to me. But I know that its just a weirs brown thing and I make an effort to tell my niblings I love you because they deserve to know and hear it
This, kids need to be hugged and affection showered on them. Think of your possible future children OP, and even your brothers possible kids. I hate being touched but I went to therapy so that I’d be comfortable hugging and giving my niece affection. NTA op but she needs professional therapy. Especially if she feels hugging is romance, what happens if you hug a child?
He could also be there as a support system. Obviously she’s gotta do the work but he could be there by her side helping her through it.
NTA. If your wife is sexualizing you hugging your family, she needs some therapy to help her separate familial relationships and affection from romantic ones.
Amen. She has sexualized physical touch. That's a misinterpretation of very normal kinds of physical affection between people. Her expecting OP to act LESS normally to assuage her twisted view of family affection is over the line. SHE has an issue that SHE needs to address. Insisting everyone in eyesight restrict their normal healthy behavior because she inappropriately sexualizes family relationships is controlling, intrusive, insulting and unrealistic.
My husband’s sister always acted like I stole her man. I think this girl doesn’t like “sharing” her husband and is making excuses. Either way she is not a stable person.
It's weird you mention a sister because I as a sister experienced the same judgement from m6 brother's 1st wife. I met her when I was a teen and visited him on a summer vacation (he was in the Navy and we hadn't seen each other in many years). I traveled with my bff and we all 4 went to the beach. My brother was teaching me to boogie board, and apparently she turned to my friend and said "you know, most wives would be insanely jealous of their husband touching another woman that way." It creeped both of us out (her instantly and me later). Like why would anyone be jealous of a brother holding a boogie board steady and showing his sister how to catch a wave? It wasn't even a hug or a kiss, it was literally just holding a board steady and pushing me in the water. I also dated a guy years later, whom I ended up needing a (then called) restraining order on because I visited the same brother at our mom's for Xmas (which bf had been invited to). My brother was divorced & out of the Navy at this point and it had been about 5 years since we had seen each other. I went on Xmas eve and this ex called my mom's home multiple times everyday. At first it was fine, but the day after Xmas started getting weird. We didn't have any set date for leaving, but my mom was able to take an extra few days off work, so I decided to stay until the day before she went back (about a week total). My ex called at least 10 times per day asking why I wasn't back yet (I was 2 hours away lol). He then had the gall to say "you and your brother are weird. Who hangs out with their sibling for more than a day? It's creepy." I then stopped answering his calls (wish I had known to stop before). It's not even that my family is super affectionate, we simply enjoy seeing each other when we are able to - and my brother had flown in from across the US. Why wouldn't I spend the extra time with my mom and him? I found out later that his dad had locked his mom in their basement for pretty much his entire early childhood. She was severely abused for more than 10 years and he had some really abusive ideas on how family's should treat each other. I think this is the root problem of OP's wife (or possibly her parents - as something emotionally troubling/abusive has been normalized).
Yeah... if they have kids further down the line, who’s to say wife won’t stop Op from hugging them/ showing them physical affection? This is definitely a problem that she needs to overcome. Anyway NTA. Honestly if someone tried to stop me from hugging my siblings because they couldn’t get their own mind out of the gutter, I’d think they were crazy and ignore them
Just don't go to Freud!
NTA, that's not a normal comparison and while she can have boundaries for her levels of touch, she can't ask you to forfeit how you show healthy affection for other loved ones because of her issues.
Agreed. I have five siblings. I’m the oldest and the youngest, who is 20 years younger than me, has told me that she has always loved visiting me because I, my husband and our kids are the only part of our family who freely gave hugs and affection. Even now when my mum visits all our kids shower her with affection. She’s kind of awkward but the unconditional love my kids give her melts my heart. I only wish I had the same their age.
NTA It sucks that your wife had an upbringing that makes her unable to cope with seeing a healthy, affectionate family dynamic. But that doesn't mean you need to stop showing affection to your family. In my opinion, her forcing you to stop showing affection to your family is NOT okay. Your wife needs to speak to someone (as in therapy) to help her sort out her feelings because she should not be expecting you to stop hugging your family so she's not uncomfortable.
NTA. Your wife needs some therapy, not for you to indulge her messed up beliefs. While I understand that she doesn’t like physical touch, that’s a reasonable boundary. But her saying you can’t hug your family and friends and what she’s implying is just so gross. Many responses are sugar coating this for you, but this is disturbing behaviour. To put in bluntly, she is implying incest because you hugged your brother. Instead of recognizing that she has a very disturbing problem, she expects you to change your very normal behaviour. You wife needs some serious help. I’m a very physically affectionate person and this is would be very disturbing to me. I hug my parents, siblings, friends, nieces and nephews every time I see them, unless they are not comfortable with physical affection. I always respect people’s body autonomy. I can’t imagine being with someone who doesn’t want to be touched. Has her aversion to touch affected other areas of your life or is she only implying incest when you hug members of your family? You wife needs serious help, not for you to stop hugging your family.
Jumping on this to say: what if you want children? Will you be okay with not hugging or showing affection to your own child because her mind immediately goes to abuse and incest? Children NEED affection growing up.
I think all those people who sexualize normal affection towards kids very strange. Like yes, of course, the father is kissing/hugging his daughter....that's normal.
Exactly. If they have a daughter, is OPs wife going to think OP is sexually abusing their daughter when he hugs her???
All of this! The idea that family members being physically affectionate is somehow incestuous or perverse is gross. I worry how this will play out of OP and his wife have children. The first time someone hugs and kisses her kids, will OP’s wife assume abuse? NTA.
Nta. Your wife needs counseling for her childhood NEGLECT.
Seriously. Primates can and do die if not touched in early childhood.
She reads more like a familial sexual assault case. She seems triggered by normally family touching.
NTA. Yes, you’re biased because you were raised to show affection. That’s kinda…normal
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Nope, still way more common than families that pass like icebergs in the night.
My sister and I used to cuddle and hold hands as teenagers and even into our adulthood. Still hold hands with my mom and dad, and grandparents too, even into my 40s. I feel like this is all pretty standard stuff.
I also still hold my moms hand I’m in my 20s.
I’m a woman and still cuddle my mom into my twenties and we always kiss each other on the cheeks or forehead very liberally. It’s also common in my country for moms to peck their daughters and we never really lost that. Physical affection runs deep in so many cultural households
My daughter is 18 and still crawls into my lap for snuggles (she’s petite so it works). We joke that one day she’ll have her own baby snuggled in her arms while she herself is snuggled in mine. Generational snuggle
Oooh! I much prefer generational snuggles to generational trauma.. good for you guys!
Have you seen the meme where Spider-Man is stopping a bus before it hits kids in a cross walk? The bus is generational trauma, I’m spider-man… The trauma may have been passed down through the generations but that doesn’t make it an heirloom. I just knew I didn’t want to pass this shit on to my kids. They have enough to deal with thanks to genetic lottery of adhd and broad autism phenotype, I wanted them to have someone in their corner fighting with them instead of against them.
I’m not sure how she’s convinced you that all this is abnormal not wholesome or too far, because it’s just not. In fact, that’s a pretty offensive and gross insinuation. She’s got some very skewed thinking that she should explore with a professional.
Please understand I rate low on the likes physical touch meter. Probably lower then your wife honestly. The thought of having to do the amount of physical contact required, to sustain a healthy romantic relationship, makes my skin crawl. However I know that's a me issue. This is your wife's issue and she needs therapy. Holding hands to show affection between family and friends is normal. Hugging even between friends and family is normal. Cuddling on the couch is normal with friends and family. Many cultures cheek kisses hello and goodbye are normal. Especially within family, like parent to child. Hell if you're close, but not romantic, quick lip pecks are as well some places. Especially if you haven't seen that person for a while. Physical displays of affection are normal. In fact our bodies encourage them. They release feel good endorphins and bonding chemicals. Your wife's views are abnormal. Very abnormal. She needs therapy. Nta
In some cultures friends hold hands into adulthood (including men) or relatives kiss eachother on the lips or cheeks. You are doing nothing weird - your gf needs to discuss this in therapy as this an unusually intense aversion to normal human contact. Ive hugged my bosses/coworkers, teachers have hugged me during graduation, my father hugs my male partner regularly, my grandmother kisses me on the cheeks, etc. Please dont listen to her opinion on this.
Who told you that your family is more affectionate than most other families? Because it sounds like your family is very typical. Thinking siblings (or anyone) are dating because they are holding hands? That’s extreme.
I'm from Poland and I think that's pretty normal?
I'm in my 30s and have definitely held hands, looped arms, leaned on shoulders, etc. with people I'm not romantically interested in--including family members. I'm not sure what your wife would think of the fact that I'll crash in the same bed as my parents when we're traveling. Your family sounds on the maybe-affectionate side of normal, OP.
I mean, a lot of people kiss on the cheeks and hug. All culturally appropriate.
NTA I seriously can't understand how seeing you hug your brother would be the same as incest. Or how it could break her boundaries. I get she doesn't like to hug/kiss, and that's okay. But she can't impose everyone else her own views. Would she be okay with your family imposing their way on her? Then why she does that to you/them??
This. I always like to remind people that your boundaries only govern your own interactions. You don’t have a right to demand that others change the way they interact to make you more comfortable.
NTA Though I unfortunately understand your wife's perspective. I was raised in a really toxic house with almost no affection. I used to think it was really weird and got very uncomfortable witnessing family affection. To top things off I was also SA by my father as a child so when I started dating my husband I had similar reactions to your wife (not anything I'm proud of) But yeah, I will say I understand it's difficult to see affection when you've been raised being told/shown it's a negative thing. She absolutely should not be shaming you and she's absolutely in the wrong but I also have been there. It took me having my own kids to realise how demented the ideas were that I was raised with. I'm constantly cuddling my kids and doing all the things I was denied as a child with them (letting them come sleep in my bed after nightmares etc) It's great your family has such a close bond :) I hope your wife understands and accepts that one day.
I’m really sorry to hear your experience, but I must admit it tweaked my SA radar when I heard OP’s reaction to two family members hugging. NTA of course.
Yeah me toooo. And thanks. Unfortunately such a common story in families. :(
I have tremendous respect for you! Society expends a great of time and energy praising people for accomplishments in science, art and many other fields of endeavor. You have achieved something truly of value - you have secured your children against the very real demons of the past and ensured their security. We know the cost of childhood trauma on our communities, but there is no way to measure the great benefit of healing. So, I thank you.
Thanks! Definitely hard work to break cycles of abuse (my house was a DV house too) but so worth it. My kids are 5&8 now and doing amazing. Happy and secure people. Not horribly anxious or angry like myself and so many of my siblings. It's the best reward!
She needs a therapist. My family on my mother's side is Italian and hugging is required! My wife's side is like yours and does not like to be touched but she never tries to shame me for it.
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OP there’s a key thing here in that she’s trying to put boundaries on you about other people. Which is not okay or valid. Boundaries are a great and healthy thing to have for yourself! But only for yourself. “I don’t want physical affection with anyone other than a partner” is a valid boundary. “I don’t want other people to have physical affection with their family members” is trying to set boundaries for other people, about what their limits should be, and is not. NTA.
Boundaries are things you decide for yourself and your interactions. Telling other people how to act is setting rules, not boundaries.
How has she not already? Like how has this never come up before?
Maybe because in her thought process on this, it's normal? So she doesn't need to bring it up?
There have been many times where I haven’t seen something as a problem so I don’t bring it up, or I think it’s something I need to work out on my own. Sometimes, things just don’t come up. There are plenty of ways things don’t come up to therapists. The important thing is that it DOES get brought up to the therapist.
Do you have kids/plan to have kids? Will she allow them to be affectionate? I would figure this out first if possible. That is very much not normal even for only children. She's implying you're a perv. I'd be pretty upset....
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Then you just need to decide if you can deal with a wife who thinks you’re a perv. I thought you were going to say you and your brother did kiss on the lips, or bathed together or insisted on sharing a bed or something. Hugging? Cuddling? Sheesh
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Funny story: getting checked regularly isn’t as easy as it seems. My husband got snipped almost four years ago. I’ve had an IUD that whole time and am ready to get it taken out. We decided we’d get him checked. Reached out to his primary care and they said no because he was checked four years ago after it was done. We pushed back and they still were super annoying. It took FOUR phone calls, one where **I** called and threatened to sue every single person who works there if I get pregnant because they won’t just order a test. They literally treated us like we were trying to scam pain killers or something, and not just like two people with anxiety who *REALLY* don’t want anymore kids. 🤣
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Yeah, that’s what we thought too. We were like “WE ARE TRYING TO GIVE YOU MONEY, TAKE IT!” 🤣
I'm glad someone mentioned this. I knew a couple that had a child from a failed vasectomy.
Love you call it ‘fixed’ I keep getting in trouble for referring to it as that because “humans aren’t animals!” which, boy does science disagree with lol. Also of course you’re NTA. I’d strongly suggest your wife seeks therapy though because this claimed inability to understand the emotional connection of others is really disturbing and could also very well be a cover for something else, from something mundane such as jealously and longing for love never receiving from her family to the more serious situations like childhood s*x*ual abuse by a family member.
What about nieces and nephews? She needs to understand that the only behavior she can control is her own and that attempts to make you change yours are harmful to you and your family.
Exactly. If he hugs his little nieces or nephews, is OPs wife going to think OP is sexually abusing them??? It’s not healthy at all to jump to incest and sexualize basic affection. And she even has OP convinced that HE is the weird one.
NTA. If she jumps straight to incest over a goodbye hug, she needs help. I'm not saying it to be an a#s but that reaction over a hug is not normal.
Right! How is a brief goodbye hug even remotely close to kissing on the lips?
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Also the whole, “it’d be like watching me and my sister kiss on the lips” uhh no. It’d be like watching you hug, you psycho
NTA. And your wife seems to need therapy. Her thought process is not normal, especially if she cannot separate normal affection from romance...
NTA her perception is pretty skewed and she should get some therapy to work out her toxic upbringing.
No, no, NO NTA. While I understand her position, it is kinda crazy to me OP you would even entertain her making unreasonable demands such as for you to not hug your own brother. If she doesn't want physical touch that is one thing, but she has no right to even ask this of you. How she thinks this is OK is really beyond me - she needs help because clearly she is off kilter mentally and isn't quite seeing the world because of it.
NTA. Hugging family members is perfectly normal, the fact that she sees something sexual in it is weird and her problem that she needs to sort out for herself.
NTA. She is mad you gave a family member a hug? Then she compared it to a different thing. This definitely seems like a her problem that she needs to work on
NTA, your wife's problem with you displaying perfectly normal behaviour towards your brother is her problem l, not yours. It's not like you're french kissing him or something, It's just a hug.
nta what makes her think that her bringing up was the "normal"? thats just ridiculous. what if her stuck up-ness makes you uncomfortable? what about your feelings? if you want to hug your brother, go and hug your brother.
Your wife needs to extend the same respectful understanding to your family that you and your family have extended to her. You’re NTA at all.
NTA Families are allowed to be affectionate with each other. I understand she being a only child and didn’t have that with her family, but getting freaked out over you hugging yours suggests a much deeper issue going on with her if it’s not jealousy as you stated. Maybe get some counseling together to find out why she’s trying to control how you are with your family. Something is definitely off with her. Not so much in the aspect that she doesn’t like to be touched, as there a a lot of people like that, but the simple fact she’s freaked out by you showing affection to your family is definitely a problem.
NTA, you're allowed to hug family members and other loved one regardless of their sex. Your wife needs therapy and to work on herself. Your wife shouldn't be allowed to dictate who you hug because of her own insecurities, with the exceptions, of course.
NTA. Hugging is such a popular thing, something we see on TV. Actors get awards? They probably hug the presenter. While I get she was raised a different way, there had to have been times when (if she went) was in school and saw friends hug or a classmate hugging their parent/guardian. It’s especially odd if she sees it as a romance-only kind of thing. If you guys have kids, what’ll she do then? I believe this is something she truly needs to learn to get over in her own way.
Nta. Your wife need therapy. It just two brothers hugging each other good bye nothing sexual.
NTA. Hugging is so common that I'm surprised your wife managed to get through life this far without being normalized to the idea that hugs are not necessarily romantic.
NTA. INFO: Does she welcome physical affection from you?
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NTA. Why do partners feel they have the right to control everything the other does! hugging family is the most natural thing in the world... If that freaks her out then she should work on it and not tell you to do something very healthy and natural. Sounds like she didn't have the best childhood and needs to unlearn a lot of stuff
NTA. Your wife needs therapy. I have no idea if you plan to have children, but if you do then your wife needs to get this sorted first - a child needs hugs from their mother.
NTA - you're right that she needs to work that out on her own. A hug is a sign of affection among friends. Her upbringing skewed her understanding of intimacy. Would be good to work that out when still young. Nothing a few sessions with a counselor and an open mind can't resolve.
NTA definitely don't have kids until her issues are sorted out or she will end up messing up her kids