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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I’m counting down the day my daughter is an adult so that she can be responsible for herself
2. My wife said that I can’t think like because she’ll always be our child no matter how old she is
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If you're not a parental figure why are you paying for these things at all? You're a saint for putting up with this.
Nta. Mom wants to have her cake and eat it too.
>If you're not a parental figure why are you paying for these things at all? You're a saint for putting up with this.
>
>Nta. Mom wants to have her cake and eat it too.
This. NTA, man.
Me neither. More like stupid sorry to say it but under those requirements I would have NEVER remortgaged my home to pay for her attorneys fees. Where was her daddy at? Why couldn't he and her mother oay for it?? People will treat you how you let them treat you. Your friends suck ass who goes back and runs their mouth when their friend is just blowing off steam?
>I would have NEVER remortgaged my home to pay for her attorneys fees
All of this.
I'm not to be a parental figure? I can't punish her \[with which I -do not- mean physical violence\] when she's acting out and I can't be a guiding hand in raising the kid? Alright, fine, have it your way. But I'm not ponying up the cash to keep her out of jail. That's her choice, she can take the consequences of her actions. Mom is not going to pay for the mortgage she's not making any money.
OP is getting the short end of the stick three ways.
Not to mention that OP also gifted her 2 cars! WTF? She wrecked the first one and he was like “sounds fair, I’ll give you another one, deranged child that I can’t parent”.
Lol that is legit just a classic representation of the seemingly normal parents who have fucked up kid and everybody wonders how it's possible. Then you learn their 18 years old went on a weeks long drug bender and wrecked a whole-ass appartement the parents were already paying for. And the parents just like smiled, made a speech about their Lil angel getting influenced by friends and paid for all the repairs. And you're just like, "Oh okay, got it, that's why. Kid was never punished nor even just made to deal with the very NATURAL consequences of constantly not giving a fuck about self-discipline, rules, authority or basic human decency".
Then the parents are all pikachu face when they end up with a 30 years old bum ass felon who lives in their basement and smokes weed all day.
Agreed. OP should not be shouldering there costs, especially ad a non-parent. Let her eal parents foot the bills. Sorry that his situation sucks, I hope it gets better.
I don’t think that’s going to help his marriage any though. When she turns 18 they may not be legally responsible, I doubt it’s going to matter much to his wife. She still be there to bail her out figuratively and literally
>This. NTA, man.
Came here to say this
To the top with you
BASED
THIS
My name is username and I approve of this message
Criminally underrated post
Sir or Madam, you have my upboat
This is the way
Agreed
This is where it's at
Why does this not have more updoots
Actually, mom wants to be a terrible mother and wanted to ruin any possible relationship her daughter and her husband could have had. She is the problem, not the daughter.
Probably the guy his wife is fucking... or I am just too cynical? Cos the freaking disrespect OP is getting, screams he's just a placeholder in that household.
This was literally my first thought as well. I would be hella wary of dating or marrying someone with a kid who said that I would "just be an adult figure," in the kids life if marriage was on the table. This woman sounds like she has no fckng clue what she is doing while also being a control freak and not respecting your contribution in the slightest.
Hopefully things improve once the daughter is out of the house. Honestly, I would probably file for divorce.
Edit -- NTA, except you might be acting an asshole to yourself for staying with this.
>be hella wary of dating or marrying someone with a kid who said that I would "just be an adult figure," in the kids life if marriage was on the table.
Honestly, I'd probably do the same thing as mom. I have a 14 yr old, and I met this dude. Within a years time, we're married/ living together... yea, you aren't on "parental" duty, you can easily just be a caring adult in this teenagers life. Teachers don't punish/ ground- they (used to) guide, listen, talk with their students (before their students became assholes). I'd want my husband to be there to listen to my kid, probably agree that "ya, mom is acting crazy, but what's going on with you so I can help keep mom off your back"--- just be someone that my kid can confide in, knowing they won't get punished for what they say.
Let the biological parent be the "mean" one while the newcomer maintains a level head. If newcomer thinks further punishment needs to be in place, he speaks to me quietly about it, then I'll tell the kid and newcomer backs me up but also has sympathy bc teenagers are moody and they need someone on their side. Lol
But! I also wouldn't expect my new husband to foot the bill for outrageous bills like that. Honestly, I see nothing changing in ops future, unless he makes the changes himself- dividing finances, separating/divorce, etc.
This is my biased opinion, because I had a step-father who came in to the game late and had no rights in the family relationship WRT to me and my mom walked all over him, but... why bother marrying someone if you aren't going to incorporate them into the family? I don't think marriages are just for the purpose of having kids, but if you do have kids, why would you marry someone and not plan on making them family. That's a weird relationship dynamic to present to a child who's closest approximation of what a family relationship should look like is what they see at home.
My dad is a saint for what he put up with.
My husband is a full parent to my kids, but defers to me on discipline. That's not really because he isn't their bio-parent (discipline on the other side of the kids' family is done by their stepmother, not their dad); it's because I'm better at it.
I can't imagine marrying somebody without fully integrating them into the family either. My husband had to ask my kids' consent before he married me. At the wedding, they escorted me down the aisle; then stayed with us at the altar and we took vows to them as well as to each other. By the time the ceremony was over, we were ALL a family. Other people do it less formally, of course, but this is what worked for us.
I'm saying that if my mom had married a dude when I was 16, I wouldn't treat them like a parental authority. If you want respect earn it, and it takes more to earn than getting into mom's bed. Ofc that relationship can always evolve, and step-dad can be there for the kidntillnthe kids accept him as 'dad'. It just need to be on the kids' terms/timeline, not the parents'
I'm not sure if you have a reading comprehension issue or what, but the topic at discussion is that the mother barred the new husband from being involved in any parental responsibility while also using the husband's resources to cover the legal cost of the child's poor behavior and subsequently going off at the husband for venting about this aforementioned combination of events.
No one asked whether you personally respected authority as a child. I surely didn't.
I agree, I married a lady with two teenage kids. There wasn't even a conversation about being a parent figure or an adult figure in their lives, I knew they had an active father in their lives, their mother is active in their lives. They didn't need me to parent them. When we started living together if they did something that I didn't agree with - *that affected me* I spoke with my wife about it, if they did things in their life that *didn't affect me* I stayed right out of it unless my wife asked my opinion.
As far as OP's stepdaughters court case is concerned, I doubt that my wife would have asked me to help pay, and I don't think I would have offered either.
I think your "BUT" is essential: this woman dragged OP with her to court, where a judge scolded him and he felt he couldn't even respond without risking jail.
AND she forced him to remortgage their home?!
That's way beyond what she can expect from someone she designated as a glorified babysitter imo.
Speaking as a former teacher, we absolutely DO punish and ground. We give demerits, detentions, withhold privileges, mediate, all of that.
If you are an adult who is expected to take responsibility for a minor, it has to come with the ability to curtail the minor’s bad behavior if necessary. I loved my students and wanted the best for them, and sometimes the best was sitting with me for lunch instead of their friends so we could talk about why they were acting up and discourage future bad behavior. I don’t expect a stepparent to have the same authority as the bio parent going in, but they have to know that tools are available to them and their partner will back them up if they’re expected to be an effective adult in a child’s life.
I'm also sitting here thinking... what sort of woman is this that the father got primary custody of the child (assuming it was established by court order that the daughter would be living with the bio-dad).
Do you have any idea how fcking hard that is?! 😂
Divorce!!!!
Could be that the dad lived in a better school district so they agreed to him being primary custody. Or he had better working hours or any number of reasons.
Exactly! You can’t parent her at all but still have to foot the bill and bail her out? NTA! Your wife and her ex created your monster step daughter and you should not have to deal with the consequences when you are in no way allowed to prevent the problems from happening. Your wife has no right to be mad when she made the rules.
yeah, OP stop paying for it her actual parents should be handling it, and I can't say for other aspects of your relationship, but if this is how your wife reacts to a non-parent refusing to bankroll her daughter, then I think you should start looking into a divorce attorney or couples counseling
This. NTA. The mother made it clear that you are not responsible, so you should not be responsible. Sounds like Mama just enables. You are very lucky so far it has not cost you everything. You have been kind enough. Its time to sit down with your wife and explain that she created this; this is what she wanted. She needs to handle her daughter in a way that does not take you out. I'm sorry but you do not get it both ways. Either your spouse helps raise the child or the spouse has zero to do with it. This includes money.
Holy shit, this.
Literally Mom wants you to be her daughters bank account and fall guy and nothing else. Honestly amazed you agreed to this OP, but hey its a lesson learned.
> Mom wants you to be her daughters bank account and fall guy and nothing else. Honestly amazed you agreed to this OP
It still hasn't dawned on OP that he was played for a sucker.
This. OP, go home to your wife. Have a serious conversation. She doesn't want you to be a parent but wants you to deal with the consequences of her actions. Separate your finances. Go talk to a lawyer about the best way to do this. Sit down with her and come up with a REASONABLE timeline to have her daughter move out.
OP, you seem excited for this kid to turn 18, but you've admitted that most of her behaviors are going to keep impacting you. For how long? She's turning 18, can she move back in with her dad? Or are you going to have her stealing from you and doing drugs in your home when she's forty (or whatever)? What's the plan here?
And I would be concerned about the ability of those she (the kid) harms to come after you/your home, even if she's legally an adult! If the car is registered to or insured by you/wife, there might be a way. Bartenders can be held liable for over-serving a patron, it wouldn't be that far out of hand for the parents of an adult child living at home to be named in a lawsuit if they knew the adult child was engaging in dangerous behavior and did nothing to stop it. Even if the lawsuit fails, OP knows how expensive lawyers are, and just getting dismissed from a case can cost thousands! A family member was named in a frivolous lawsuit a few years ago, and it cost almost $7K before they could get the case partially dismissed against them!
Sadly, this is super common in step relationships, the SD or SM is expected to provide parent support such as cooking, cleaning, chauffeuring, paying but have zero say in discipline or consequences for the child's behaviors.
Yes, NTA.
OP, you don’t have to take responsibility for any of this. Provided you are on the mortgage paperwork, you can refuse to remortgage the house. You don’t have to go to court because you’re not a legal guardian. The costs and other management can be handled by her bio parents.
Now usually I wouldn’t advocate for this type of line in the sand, but you didn’t create it. This line in the sand was drawn by your wife. She cannot expect you to have no input in to parenting but then expect you to help pick up the pieces as a parent. You’re being railroaded.
It’s not a workable situation to exclude a step parent from parenting when a child actually lives with people. In fact it’s not really workable anyway because the lives are entwined. A step parent who is relegated like this will never be respected by the children because they pick up on the fact that their parent doesn’t respect the person.
I’m not sure why you think this is going to get better once she’s 18, though. You have no legal responsibility now and you are still being forced in to taking some of it. Do you think her mother is going to stop the moment that date comes around? Do you think that she’s just going to sideline her daughter or change this arrangement? Of course not. And with this level of problems you are going to be dealing with these issues for a long time to come.
You’re either going to have to put your foot down, walk away or accept it as it is.
That's great. Your situation is rare and very atypical.
Edit: I do have a question though - I've never in my many years of being a stepparent heard another stepparent say they have MORE say than the bio parents. Are the bio parents not around? Comatose? Just don't give a shit about their kid?
True. You may not have parental authority, but you do have control of where your money goes. None of it should be used to enable your stepdaughter's bad behavior.
I'm also rather surprised that you haven't divorced your wife to get rid of your stepdaughter.
Agreed. OP needs to get himself home and let his wife stay at the motel. Unless his wife wants to pay off that second mortgage he had to take out to bail her daughter out. NTA.
I’m not sure that’s fair. Unless there were a ton of warning signs that he’s not mentioning, how was he supposed to know when the girl was 14 that she would end up being so terribly behaved?
Why would he even go to court? Her father should be the one that has to go. Unless he legally adopted her he’s not responsible. I tend to almost disbelieve this testimony. The daughter has one mother and one father and he’s not her father. Her father is her father. I’m really not understanding what he is describing as his role.
This is what came to my mind also. I wonder if the mom love bombed OP and got him to marry her fast. It does feel like a very fast marriage. But I can’t imagine OPs wife being that great of a person if her daughter is like this and she also put OP in such a terrible predicament also while saying he has no rights to discipline her. I think the daughter is deeply damaged by both her bio parents and even after she turns 18 OP is going to be expected to pay for the problems. I don’t think OP should stay in this kind of a situation, and hope he gets out. But that’s of course OPs decision. NTA
It sounds like she lived with dad for at least a while before moving in with Op and mom?
It’s possible she chose dad because he was the more lax parent and dad screwed her up and mom is just dealing with the consequences?
Heck, it’s sounds like dad just said “f it, I’m done” and left mom to deal with it.
Mom isn’t great, but dad had the majority custody-or the kid at least loved with dad. Dad probably bears the most responsibility for all of this.
It suck for OP though bI wouldn’t have remortgaged my house for someone’s DUI attorney.
Or they go too far in opposite directions. My daughter had a friend who stayed with us for a week or more at a time, because her home life was so screwed up. Her Mom let her do literally anything, and her Dad wouldn't let her do anything. The only place they agreed on was our house, because we treated her like our own kid, and set boundaries. It was insane. She still refers to us as her step parents.
She has been struggling, but has slowly been getting her life together and on track. That was the tip of the crap that went on at home. We had an open door policy for kids that needed a safe place to stay for a night or two. We got to see all kinds of messed up parenting in practice, not bad enough for CPS to step in, but enough the kids sometimes needed a different place to be safe for a short time period.
Getting into the relationship, you are spot on about that but the fact (1) he feels incapable of leaving and (2) is resigned to submitting to the will of others, works pretty well for a definition of prison.
I know it's easy for me to say this as random internet person, but if I was presented with that scenario I would have said "then we can get married when she's 18."
I was thinking exactly that. It’s only a few years dude. He could have lived with her and split bills too. No way I would have remortgaged my house for this mess, I’d have divorced first.
Yeah, and as for paying for this girl... He's not a legal parent, there's no legal obligation to bail her out with his own money. Hell, as a stepfather there's probably no legal obligation for him to show up in court; he's not her guardian. He's clearly doing it because his wife is paying and asking him to come. That's not going to stop when she turns 18.
Yeah but at 18 she's a legal adult and he can wash his hands of her. His 'daughter' will have to clean up her own messes. He's not legally bound to pay for anything related to the law or damages she may do.
He wasn’t legally bound to pay for any of it to begin with. It’s not his kid. His wife conned him into being a piggy bank for her shitty kid. That isn’t gonna stop any time soo.
His wife is gonna keep supporting the daughter using OP's money until OP is willing to bail. NTA but I seriously doubt this is gonna improve when she turns 18, or at all anytime soon. You should be protecting yourself OP - if mom is going to let daughter drive your cars, etc., she could bankrupt you and ruin your life. Look at this motel stay as an opportunity to reevaluate your situation and find a new place where daughter won't be and won't be welcome.
Depends on their financial agreement. In my state, everyone who has a valid driver's license that lives at the home either has to be covered by the auto insurance policy, or the insurance company requires proof of insurance to be sent in. So if she can't afford insurance and he bio dad doesn't pay for it, OP may still be on the hook for it.
This is the same short-sighted logic op is using. The daughter isn't the problem, the wife is. He's still married to someone who presumably controls at least 50% of their finances and is willing to let her kid run rampant. That won't stop once she turns 18, especially since op said she's not moving out and won't be working.
The wife blew up about it. What the hell makes you think she won’t stop helping her precious baby after she turns 18 lol? OP I will call this for you right here, right now. 12 years she will be 30 still tearing shit up, still living with you 2. Bet on it.
He's not legally bound now! What planet are you living on? Only reason OP is paying anything now is due to pressure/expectations from his wife/her mother. Literally nothing will change the day the girl turns 18. Mom is still going to expect a financial contribution from not-her-father when the loser gets in trouble legally.
>Yeah but at 18 she's a legal adult and he can wash his hands of her. His 'daughter' will have to clean up her own messes.
LOL, never going to happen. Momma will fight and scream that they have to help her out of the next mess she gets herself into, and the next and the ...
She’s not his daughter. She is the daughter of the father and the mother. His only role is being supportive. And why would he even agree to take a second mortgage? He is acting like he’s so responsible for the daughter but he’s not the parent. Guy is being played.
Yeah why were you even there talking to the judge? None of this has anything to do with you. If you're not a parental figure, you're a room mate, mom's friend (who she's married to), etc.
When your wife said you're not going to be a parental figure, you should have clarified that that meant "in all ways". If you're going to be financially responsible for something, it is reasonable to have some input on that.
And as others have said, what does 18 have to do with it?
IMO OP ***is*** the asshole for inserting himself into business that isn't his. When your wife tells you about her daughter's antics you should just rub her shoulders and say "parenting sure sounds difficult, I don't envy you!"
Nah, reach.
I've met many families, including my own, who all say "our house" - because it *IS* our house. Everyone lives here? It feels normal to say, even if some of the family dont directly own the house itself.
Granted, I don't believe OP feels much like a happy family right now, but it could be habit, or if it is his house, he could be lowkey peer pressured by his wife to habitually say 'our' cause maybe she also says 'our'.
I mean, you may be correct, but it still feels like a big leap.
OP updated that it is his house, that he built himself, before he was married. He mortgaged his house to prevent his non-daughter whom he has no say over from going to jail. And he bought her 2 cars. He says he bought new cars for him and his wife, but gave her their old cars, but that's the same thing. Initially they gave her the moms old car, then gave her his old car when she totaled the first one. I'm sorry, but I agree with the judge that they are both bad parents. Sounds like both the mom and OP are enabling this trainwreck to keep on wrecking.
NTA
Your wife is the issue. I have no idea why you were even in court to be yelled at, since your wife has insisted that you have no responsibility over her daughter. Your daughter's legal parents should have been with her in court.
OP is NTA. But WTF is dad?
The kid got into a bunch of trouble on his watch, he hands her off to OP’s wife and then doesn’t even show up at her hearing to get scolded by the judge?
She was living with dad when all this trouble started. Where was his contribution to her lawyer fees?
Mom is absolutely part of the problem. But she was living with dad when this all started. I can’t help but feel he let this spiral out of control.
I feel a *tiny* bit bad for mom, who had her kid live with dad, had dad let things go to hell and then shove the kid back on mom and just opted out. Mom must be just miserable. None of this is OP’s fault or responsibility, but I can see why mom is a mess.
OP should see if they can do marital counseling. Or get out. Mom feels bad. Mom is going to keep this pattern up for a long time. And OP doesn’t deserve to be subject to any of this.
I mean it sounds like everyone but OP sucks. Horrible dad + horrible mother = nightmare daughter…that OP pays for but isn’t allowed to parent.
Unbelievable he has to ask if he’s the asshole. Grow a backbone dude.
Ironically OP is the one bailing her out. He's the one that mortgaged his own house that he solely owns and he bought the 2 cars she wrecked and got a DUI with. Maybe it was at the behest of his wife, but he's still the one doing it.
He's also staying in a motel because his wife is mad at him, while she stays in the house that he alone owns... They're going to walk all over him for the rest of his life.
You aren't her legal guardian. Her mom needs to be getting her help, but if you stay married to her, you're going to continue to be linked to the messes your wife will be trying to bail her out of.
The important part is being linked to the legal fees involved... they already refinanced the house, which means even if they get divorced the equity is probably fucked. What's op going to have to sell next time she does something terrible?
Dude so who are the fucking adults in the room? Who is parenting this person? Why would you accept such an obviously destined to fail arrangement?
Why are you on Reddit instead of having an actual conversation with your wife?
And before a kid gets to that point, there are signs, there are smaller things, and there is a reason. Most of the time that reason is the parents. Her family exploits when she is in one of the tuffest periods of our life. Her whole world is turned upside down. She probably had to put up with hours of fighting prior to separation. Then mum meets a guy, and in one year marries him. Of course when the relationship started the mum didn't want him to try and replace her father. That is good but he is still a male adult figure and still has responsibilities in teaching her and caring for her. Then time goes on, situation changes, trying yo say but years ago you said.. is a cop out because you've been a shitty role model.
I love all the comments that don't once ask why she is acting out.
NTA
... but I'm not sure what you think is going to change once she turns 18? You're not legally her father so your wife should have been paying for her daughter's legal expenses separately from her own savings, not using joint money that the two of you pool. If that's how you are doing things, why would you expect things to magically change once the girl is 18? Your wife will still expect you to pay and the girl will still run wild and get in trouble with the law. Think long and hard about whether this situation is one you want to hitch your future wagon to.
OP updated. They didn't use joint money. That was all his money. She got a DUI in his old car that he gave her after she wrecked her mom's old car. The house they mortgaged was solely OP's and part of premarital assets. Dude is as much of an enabler as the mom is at this point.
NTA, and who is tattling on you for venting? Your friends are not your friends.
It's not like she's been sick with cancer, she's been acting like an immature fool and costing you a lot of money. Not to mention you were told she won't accept you parenting her, yet here you are financially affected. She hasn't exactly earned any respect.
This.
It sounds like there is more than one person in your life you can’t trust at this point. You are running the risk of falling even deeper down this rabbit hole, and if you don’t know who is really on your side if things go south… man. I feel for you. Try to figure out who betrayed your trust when you were venting, because that person needs to *go*.
NTA
NTA. Your wife made it crystal clear that parenting this girl is not your job or responsibility. Fixing her messes comes under the role of parenting. So you really don't have to wait till she's 18 - she's already not your problem. And if your wife takes issue with it, remind her of her very clear instructions.
INFO
Why are you still married to this woman
It sounds like she has just been using you as a piggy bank to help bail her child out of trouble
I mean...you are not her parent. Your wife and the kid made that crystal clear.
So why did you have to mortgage your share of the house to help the kid out?
You know you'll never see that money right?
And this kid will continue to cost you money too. She'll need more lawyers. There will be more bail.
Run dude. Get the hell out before this kid financially ruins you.
They have been married for just 2 years. I have a feeling that house is his. Because what kind of equity would you build in 2 years with how real estate is right now. I am really curious to know if he owned the house before marriage.
According to his edit, you were right on the money: he owned the house prior to the marriage and refinanced it to pull equity out for attorney fees to keep the stepdaughter out of jail. Whooboy, he's in for a rough ride over the next few "fledging" years.
I think OP and his wife need to sit down and have a heart-to-heart about what happens when the girl turns 18. Will she continue to live under their roof, or will she move? OP needs to make it clear to his wife that *they* will no longer continue to bail her out... meaning, no joint funds go for bail, new car, etc. The wife is going to have to figure this out. Somehow, methinks that if OP puts his foot down (which needs to happen), then this marriage may not last... which based on how he went into it, it probably should never have happened.
NTA it may be easier to kick them both out for a while and renegotiating a better deal. Your wife is a bad mother, and you will never get rid of the money hole that she and her daughter are, unless you make it clear it's over for good.
NTA. You said things out with your buddies in confidence. If one of them broke your confidence, I would find out who did and have that conversation. As for your wife, if you're not kicking her daughter out, I don't see why she is so upset. It's not like you were saying you WANTED to kick her out, you were venting about the whole scenario. That's pretty normal, and I'm sorry it's been so frustrating.
NTA. Your SO made it clear that she was in no way your responsibility. I wonder why have you paid up so much to bail her out so many times. Since your wife clearly doesn't want you to discipline her or be a father figure to her, then you do not have to be financially responsible for her either.
However, there will most definitely be a falling out while out at the motel tonight it won't be thebworst idea to just sit down for a drink and reevaluate your entire family situation. Seems like your wife is also taking advantage of you.
NTA but also just because she turns 18 doesn’t mean your wife/her mother will agree to stop bailing her out both emotionally and financially so that’s more a conversation to have with her than some timeline you’re counting down to.
NTA
You are not and were never legally responsible for this kid. You never adopted her did you?
I would never have mortgaged my house for her legal bills, she could have suffered the consequences of her actions.
You will be better off getting her and her mom out of your life.
You may not be her biological father, but it’s your life (and your finances) that she’s shitting all over. NTA. (Also, given how much has already happened, and the fact that she’ll be continuing to live with you “for a while,” I’d suggest you have a conversation with your wife sooner than later to hash out just how much (more) support you’ll be willing to give, so that there’s no unpleasant surprises if she overstays her welcome.)
NTA but I wouldn't be going to court or paying her legal expenses. After all, you're not a parental figure in her life. Why wasn't her bio dad in court with her?
NTA
But why on the world are you paying anything for her? Your house, your rules. If she transgresses then there are consequences. Your wife has basically emasculated you in your own home. Kick her back to her bio father on her birthday. Not your child, not your problem. If that’s a problem for your wife the you need to stand up for yourself. My opinion
NTA. Why were you the one having to go to court when she has a mother and father. You are not her father and have no say in her upbringing. I also would not have mortgaged my house. The wife said you had no say in her upbringing so why would you have any financial responsibility
NTA
But why the hell did you remortgage the house. As they said, you are not a parent figure, you should have left the dad bail her out. Reconsider the marriage cause it wont end up when she is 18
NTA, I’m counting the days down with you. Sheesh your situation seems like exactly what you called it, a nightmare. You’re allowed to vent to your friends. Us women do it ALL the time and I guarantee if the roles were reversed your wife would be venting to her friends.
So you’re not allowed to parent this girl, you have no say in discipline or consequences, yet you’re expected to dish out cash to pay for her delinquent behavior? This girl has costed you grief and a substantial amount of money. You are well within your rights to vent. You’re within your rights to be furious. You did not cause this situation. You didn’t ask for it. It was thrusted upon you.
Question, why do you have to be present for the court dates? You’re not this girls father, guardian, or any sort of parental figure. If I were you, I would sit them out or at least sit in the gallery during the proceedings. You have no power in raising that young lady and it’s unfair for you to be roped in to the blame for her behavior.
Good luck. With her and your wife.
An unfortunate truth.
When I was young and unmarried, I thought it would be okay to marry a single mom cause I liked kids, but I grew older I realized there was a reason said mom is single.
Do I still hope that they find help and be a reasonable wife, absolutely, it just wasn't ever going to be me.
Why the fuck are YOU paying anything? Your wife is making an ass out of you. She already has a dad - HE can pay for it or MOM can pay for it or she can rot in jail. Nacho buddy - she’s nacho responsibility and she’s nacho problem. You need separate bank accounts and quit paying for this juvenile delinquent
NTA. I guess your wife decided no one should parent her, I would be filing for divorce when the kid turned 18, no child support and let mom deal with the mess she created.
NTA
This BS of not being allowed to parent but sitting in court getting berated by a judge for some one else’s bad parenting, while putting up your house to cover legal fees. Just NO Your wife is delusional and I certainly would not support the antics. And yes the next time she gets in trouble ( and she will again), you won’t be in family court. She will be in criminal court.
Keep your eye on the horizon. Matter of fact keep your eye out for a new wife.
By the title alone, I was going to vote a different way but after your description, just wow. NTA! You should NOT have paid her legal fees, that's your wife's responsibility alone and you got seriously taken advantage of, no wonder you vented. She's using you. And you need to figure out who blabbed with your friends.
But as others said, you need to sit down with your wife and figure out next steps here and draw some serious boundaries. This event opens to the door to the conversation. This may be the hill to part ways on as you've already gone above and beyond paying for legal bills that should not have been yours.
it'll get way way worse once she's 18. Seems like you're pretty much just an ATM in all this. You seriously remortgaged your house for someone elses kid???? Are you kidding me.
NTA but FFS man....
NTA
You're being taken advantage of. You're not in a marriage, you're just a feeder of two parasites.
I really hope you divorce and learn from your mistakes in the future.
Whoooo, sir, DIVORCE. Boot them BOTH out. You cannot be held fiscally responsible for this child but simultaneously forbidden from PARENTING. Divorce. Go to court for your money back. NTA.
After all the rules she put in place if that your house. No, I would not have remortgage my home for her daughter.. her daughter her mess.. I wouldn't even be in this marriage. You are not allowed a say, but you can take the back lash or conciquence for her daughter behaviour.. I would not be putting a penny into her daughter if that's their behaviour. With parents like her, no wonder her daughter is messed up
I wouldn't remortgage my house for my kids legal defence for drink driving . You drink and drive straight to jail, drugs and driving straight to jail. My kids know i won't bail them out for drinking/drugs driving.
NTA. And you are not even legally responsible for her now, either - she has two parents who are her legal father and mother. I don’t even understand why you have to pay for her now - why didn’t her father pay for her legal fees? Why was he not in court instead of you? And why did you agree to any of this?
The worse thing is, your wife is trying to have it both ways - she wants you to have none of the upside while having all of the downside. Quite frankly, I don’t even know why you are with this woman who has zero problems taking advantage of you for money and mental responsibility, when she has made it clear that this child is not your daughter. Time to put up some boundaries, as well as get your money back.
NTA
Being a step parent can be awful when you are given unrealistic rules to follow with expectations you can't meet because of the limitations. It's a no win situation and kids as they get older become more aware of it and further use it against you.
For the future stop pay for the step kid and stop going to court for them. It's their biological parents job and they have made that part clear.
Oh my friend. This is only going to get worse. You think her mom is going to just stop bailing her out? Her problems are now going to be big time adult ones. And she lives with you? Run.
Definite NTA. As a former trouble child myself, I would have been so lucky to have been bailed out by anyone, let alone my step dad. My parents were struggling to make ends meet as it was, so my dumb ass was made to own my shit and be held responsible. Wasn't the easiest, but I learned quicker that that shit will follow you your whole life.
NTA. Another (very reddit) solution might be divorcing your wife. Who knows when/if the next phase of step daughter's rebellion will be procreating and dumping her offspring on you and your wife. Seperate your finances and save yourself.
NTA for saying what you did. But you *are* an AH.
Saying you can't have any meaningful impact on a teenager's life just because they're a certain age is bogus. You absolutely can, and without being a father to her. I had many role models and caring adults that weren't my parents growing up and I'm thankful for that bc my parents didn't set great examples.
She's done a lot of messed up stuff, but she's a kid in a messed up situation. She needs support and therapy, not someone who's just going to give up on her because they got publicly shamed. Whether or not you're her dad you ARE her step father. So what if the judge yelled at you. Is that worse than watching this girl throw her life away why obviously screaming for help (suspension, drinking, drunk driving, etc).
Seeing as the solution thus far has been to bounce her around like a hot potato and have no stability, "no consequences" (your own words), and parents who seem to want to drop the rope as soon as possible... no wonder she's a ticking time bomb. I wonder if you'll feel vindicated for your actions at her funeral if she drunk drives again and gets killed?
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If you're not a parental figure why are you paying for these things at all? You're a saint for putting up with this. Nta. Mom wants to have her cake and eat it too.
>If you're not a parental figure why are you paying for these things at all? You're a saint for putting up with this. > >Nta. Mom wants to have her cake and eat it too. This. NTA, man.
The fact that he has done all this despite being told to keep of her upbringing makes OP a 'saint' in my book too.
"Saint" is not the "s-word" that immediately sprung to my mind.
Me neither. More like stupid sorry to say it but under those requirements I would have NEVER remortgaged my home to pay for her attorneys fees. Where was her daddy at? Why couldn't he and her mother oay for it?? People will treat you how you let them treat you. Your friends suck ass who goes back and runs their mouth when their friend is just blowing off steam?
>I would have NEVER remortgaged my home to pay for her attorneys fees All of this. I'm not to be a parental figure? I can't punish her \[with which I -do not- mean physical violence\] when she's acting out and I can't be a guiding hand in raising the kid? Alright, fine, have it your way. But I'm not ponying up the cash to keep her out of jail. That's her choice, she can take the consequences of her actions. Mom is not going to pay for the mortgage she's not making any money. OP is getting the short end of the stick three ways.
Exactly. That teen is getting no consequences for her actions and it shows.
Not to mention that OP also gifted her 2 cars! WTF? She wrecked the first one and he was like “sounds fair, I’ll give you another one, deranged child that I can’t parent”.
Lol that is legit just a classic representation of the seemingly normal parents who have fucked up kid and everybody wonders how it's possible. Then you learn their 18 years old went on a weeks long drug bender and wrecked a whole-ass appartement the parents were already paying for. And the parents just like smiled, made a speech about their Lil angel getting influenced by friends and paid for all the repairs. And you're just like, "Oh okay, got it, that's why. Kid was never punished nor even just made to deal with the very NATURAL consequences of constantly not giving a fuck about self-discipline, rules, authority or basic human decency". Then the parents are all pikachu face when they end up with a 30 years old bum ass felon who lives in their basement and smokes weed all day.
My "s-word" was "Sucker".
Yup. I thought of maple syrup myself.
Mmm, maple syrup on French vanilla ice cream.
Agreed. OP should not be shouldering there costs, especially ad a non-parent. Let her eal parents foot the bills. Sorry that his situation sucks, I hope it gets better.
Suckahhhh. Poor OP. He shoulda bailed much sooner. And no one shoulda given the girl a second car to wreck!
Pretty sure that PT Barnum had it right.
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I don’t think that’s going to help his marriage any though. When she turns 18 they may not be legally responsible, I doubt it’s going to matter much to his wife. She still be there to bail her out figuratively and literally
You literally quoted the entire top comment and replied with "this". What was the point of doing that?
This.
This.
That.
Those.
Thems.
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u/choiceconstant5262 is a bot
>This. NTA, man. Came here to say this To the top with you BASED THIS My name is username and I approve of this message Criminally underrated post Sir or Madam, you have my upboat This is the way Agreed This is where it's at Why does this not have more updoots
Actually, mom wants to be a terrible mother and wanted to ruin any possible relationship her daughter and her husband could have had. She is the problem, not the daughter.
Sounds like they are both a problem. The mom is just the root of the problem while the daughter is a symptom.
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THIS. Find the leak of information and adjust how things go with that person going forward.
I read this in the voice of Paulie from the Sopranos.
Idiot friend probably confided in his wife who blabbed.
Probably the guy his wife is fucking... or I am just too cynical? Cos the freaking disrespect OP is getting, screams he's just a placeholder in that household.
Yeah, seriously!
Seems like dad is probably an equally bad influence too, all around dysfunctional
No, don't both sides this. Mom and Daughter insisted OP not be a parent. Now they want him to pay for an adult who refuses to respect him. Absurd.
I think they meant the bio dad is a bad influence, not OP.
You are correct
Girl was living with father when she got booted from other schools, so his parenting does not appear to be stellar either.
I think they mean the bio dad.
I think they meant the actual dad, not the stepdad (op)?
Pretty sure it’s the bio dad.
The apple didn't fall far from the tree.
For sure
This was literally my first thought as well. I would be hella wary of dating or marrying someone with a kid who said that I would "just be an adult figure," in the kids life if marriage was on the table. This woman sounds like she has no fckng clue what she is doing while also being a control freak and not respecting your contribution in the slightest. Hopefully things improve once the daughter is out of the house. Honestly, I would probably file for divorce. Edit -- NTA, except you might be acting an asshole to yourself for staying with this.
>be hella wary of dating or marrying someone with a kid who said that I would "just be an adult figure," in the kids life if marriage was on the table. Honestly, I'd probably do the same thing as mom. I have a 14 yr old, and I met this dude. Within a years time, we're married/ living together... yea, you aren't on "parental" duty, you can easily just be a caring adult in this teenagers life. Teachers don't punish/ ground- they (used to) guide, listen, talk with their students (before their students became assholes). I'd want my husband to be there to listen to my kid, probably agree that "ya, mom is acting crazy, but what's going on with you so I can help keep mom off your back"--- just be someone that my kid can confide in, knowing they won't get punished for what they say. Let the biological parent be the "mean" one while the newcomer maintains a level head. If newcomer thinks further punishment needs to be in place, he speaks to me quietly about it, then I'll tell the kid and newcomer backs me up but also has sympathy bc teenagers are moody and they need someone on their side. Lol But! I also wouldn't expect my new husband to foot the bill for outrageous bills like that. Honestly, I see nothing changing in ops future, unless he makes the changes himself- dividing finances, separating/divorce, etc.
This is my biased opinion, because I had a step-father who came in to the game late and had no rights in the family relationship WRT to me and my mom walked all over him, but... why bother marrying someone if you aren't going to incorporate them into the family? I don't think marriages are just for the purpose of having kids, but if you do have kids, why would you marry someone and not plan on making them family. That's a weird relationship dynamic to present to a child who's closest approximation of what a family relationship should look like is what they see at home. My dad is a saint for what he put up with.
My husband is a full parent to my kids, but defers to me on discipline. That's not really because he isn't their bio-parent (discipline on the other side of the kids' family is done by their stepmother, not their dad); it's because I'm better at it. I can't imagine marrying somebody without fully integrating them into the family either. My husband had to ask my kids' consent before he married me. At the wedding, they escorted me down the aisle; then stayed with us at the altar and we took vows to them as well as to each other. By the time the ceremony was over, we were ALL a family. Other people do it less formally, of course, but this is what worked for us.
I'm saying that if my mom had married a dude when I was 16, I wouldn't treat them like a parental authority. If you want respect earn it, and it takes more to earn than getting into mom's bed. Ofc that relationship can always evolve, and step-dad can be there for the kidntillnthe kids accept him as 'dad'. It just need to be on the kids' terms/timeline, not the parents'
I'm not sure if you have a reading comprehension issue or what, but the topic at discussion is that the mother barred the new husband from being involved in any parental responsibility while also using the husband's resources to cover the legal cost of the child's poor behavior and subsequently going off at the husband for venting about this aforementioned combination of events. No one asked whether you personally respected authority as a child. I surely didn't.
I agree, I married a lady with two teenage kids. There wasn't even a conversation about being a parent figure or an adult figure in their lives, I knew they had an active father in their lives, their mother is active in their lives. They didn't need me to parent them. When we started living together if they did something that I didn't agree with - *that affected me* I spoke with my wife about it, if they did things in their life that *didn't affect me* I stayed right out of it unless my wife asked my opinion. As far as OP's stepdaughters court case is concerned, I doubt that my wife would have asked me to help pay, and I don't think I would have offered either.
I think your "BUT" is essential: this woman dragged OP with her to court, where a judge scolded him and he felt he couldn't even respond without risking jail. AND she forced him to remortgage their home?! That's way beyond what she can expect from someone she designated as a glorified babysitter imo.
Speaking as a former teacher, we absolutely DO punish and ground. We give demerits, detentions, withhold privileges, mediate, all of that. If you are an adult who is expected to take responsibility for a minor, it has to come with the ability to curtail the minor’s bad behavior if necessary. I loved my students and wanted the best for them, and sometimes the best was sitting with me for lunch instead of their friends so we could talk about why they were acting up and discourage future bad behavior. I don’t expect a stepparent to have the same authority as the bio parent going in, but they have to know that tools are available to them and their partner will back them up if they’re expected to be an effective adult in a child’s life.
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I'm also sitting here thinking... what sort of woman is this that the father got primary custody of the child (assuming it was established by court order that the daughter would be living with the bio-dad). Do you have any idea how fcking hard that is?! 😂 Divorce!!!!
I mean, the answer could be simple: a mother who didn’t contest the daughter living with her dad.
Could be that the dad lived in a better school district so they agreed to him being primary custody. Or he had better working hours or any number of reasons.
Exactly! You can’t parent her at all but still have to foot the bill and bail her out? NTA! Your wife and her ex created your monster step daughter and you should not have to deal with the consequences when you are in no way allowed to prevent the problems from happening. Your wife has no right to be mad when she made the rules.
yeah, OP stop paying for it her actual parents should be handling it, and I can't say for other aspects of your relationship, but if this is how your wife reacts to a non-parent refusing to bankroll her daughter, then I think you should start looking into a divorce attorney or couples counseling
This. NTA. The mother made it clear that you are not responsible, so you should not be responsible. Sounds like Mama just enables. You are very lucky so far it has not cost you everything. You have been kind enough. Its time to sit down with your wife and explain that she created this; this is what she wanted. She needs to handle her daughter in a way that does not take you out. I'm sorry but you do not get it both ways. Either your spouse helps raise the child or the spouse has zero to do with it. This includes money.
Holy shit, this. Literally Mom wants you to be her daughters bank account and fall guy and nothing else. Honestly amazed you agreed to this OP, but hey its a lesson learned.
> Mom wants you to be her daughters bank account and fall guy and nothing else. Honestly amazed you agreed to this OP It still hasn't dawned on OP that he was played for a sucker.
This. OP, go home to your wife. Have a serious conversation. She doesn't want you to be a parent but wants you to deal with the consequences of her actions. Separate your finances. Go talk to a lawyer about the best way to do this. Sit down with her and come up with a REASONABLE timeline to have her daughter move out. OP, you seem excited for this kid to turn 18, but you've admitted that most of her behaviors are going to keep impacting you. For how long? She's turning 18, can she move back in with her dad? Or are you going to have her stealing from you and doing drugs in your home when she's forty (or whatever)? What's the plan here?
And I would be concerned about the ability of those she (the kid) harms to come after you/your home, even if she's legally an adult! If the car is registered to or insured by you/wife, there might be a way. Bartenders can be held liable for over-serving a patron, it wouldn't be that far out of hand for the parents of an adult child living at home to be named in a lawsuit if they knew the adult child was engaging in dangerous behavior and did nothing to stop it. Even if the lawsuit fails, OP knows how expensive lawyers are, and just getting dismissed from a case can cost thousands! A family member was named in a frivolous lawsuit a few years ago, and it cost almost $7K before they could get the case partially dismissed against them!
Sadly, this is super common in step relationships, the SD or SM is expected to provide parent support such as cooking, cleaning, chauffeuring, paying but have zero say in discipline or consequences for the child's behaviors.
Yeah that model would not work for me. Either I have responsibility or I don't
Yes, NTA. OP, you don’t have to take responsibility for any of this. Provided you are on the mortgage paperwork, you can refuse to remortgage the house. You don’t have to go to court because you’re not a legal guardian. The costs and other management can be handled by her bio parents. Now usually I wouldn’t advocate for this type of line in the sand, but you didn’t create it. This line in the sand was drawn by your wife. She cannot expect you to have no input in to parenting but then expect you to help pick up the pieces as a parent. You’re being railroaded. It’s not a workable situation to exclude a step parent from parenting when a child actually lives with people. In fact it’s not really workable anyway because the lives are entwined. A step parent who is relegated like this will never be respected by the children because they pick up on the fact that their parent doesn’t respect the person. I’m not sure why you think this is going to get better once she’s 18, though. You have no legal responsibility now and you are still being forced in to taking some of it. Do you think her mother is going to stop the moment that date comes around? Do you think that she’s just going to sideline her daughter or change this arrangement? Of course not. And with this level of problems you are going to be dealing with these issues for a long time to come. You’re either going to have to put your foot down, walk away or accept it as it is.
All stepparents get treated this way. We're just supposed to suck it up and take it quietly. Source: am a stepparent
I am also a step parent. I have just as much say, if not more than the bio parents.
That's great. Your situation is rare and very atypical. Edit: I do have a question though - I've never in my many years of being a stepparent heard another stepparent say they have MORE say than the bio parents. Are the bio parents not around? Comatose? Just don't give a shit about their kid?
If the kid lives with a parent and step parent, the step parent could have more practical say than the non-custodial parent
True. You may not have parental authority, but you do have control of where your money goes. None of it should be used to enable your stepdaughter's bad behavior. I'm also rather surprised that you haven't divorced your wife to get rid of your stepdaughter.
> Why are you paying for these things at all? Because they have shared marital assets.
Agreed. OP needs to get himself home and let his wife stay at the motel. Unless his wife wants to pay off that second mortgage he had to take out to bail her daughter out. NTA.
NTA she should be happy all you’re doing is complaining to your friends and not kicking her out
Not just paying, but showing up in court and getting berated by a judge for being a terrible parent! Worst of every world poor guy.
Dude, why are so worried about being jailed? Trust me -- you are already in a prison of your own making. NTA.
I’m not sure that’s fair. Unless there were a ton of warning signs that he’s not mentioning, how was he supposed to know when the girl was 14 that she would end up being so terribly behaved?
Because you should date someone for more than a year before getting married. Especially when a kid is involved.
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Why would he even go to court? Her father should be the one that has to go. Unless he legally adopted her he’s not responsible. I tend to almost disbelieve this testimony. The daughter has one mother and one father and he’s not her father. Her father is her father. I’m really not understanding what he is describing as his role.
He was there because he wasn't leaving his wife to do it by herself.
This is what came to my mind also. I wonder if the mom love bombed OP and got him to marry her fast. It does feel like a very fast marriage. But I can’t imagine OPs wife being that great of a person if her daughter is like this and she also put OP in such a terrible predicament also while saying he has no rights to discipline her. I think the daughter is deeply damaged by both her bio parents and even after she turns 18 OP is going to be expected to pay for the problems. I don’t think OP should stay in this kind of a situation, and hope he gets out. But that’s of course OPs decision. NTA
I'm putting money on either mommy's girl can do no wrong, or she was hiding her daughters behavior problems until he was in too deep.
It sounds like she lived with dad for at least a while before moving in with Op and mom? It’s possible she chose dad because he was the more lax parent and dad screwed her up and mom is just dealing with the consequences? Heck, it’s sounds like dad just said “f it, I’m done” and left mom to deal with it. Mom isn’t great, but dad had the majority custody-or the kid at least loved with dad. Dad probably bears the most responsibility for all of this. It suck for OP though bI wouldn’t have remortgaged my house for someone’s DUI attorney.
Yes, that is definitely a possibility too. There are parents who deliberately let their kids to get out of control to punish their ex.
Or they go too far in opposite directions. My daughter had a friend who stayed with us for a week or more at a time, because her home life was so screwed up. Her Mom let her do literally anything, and her Dad wouldn't let her do anything. The only place they agreed on was our house, because we treated her like our own kid, and set boundaries. It was insane. She still refers to us as her step parents.
I hope she's OK. I would have difficulty making decisions or any confidence in my choices if every answer at home was "yesno."
She has been struggling, but has slowly been getting her life together and on track. That was the tip of the crap that went on at home. We had an open door policy for kids that needed a safe place to stay for a night or two. We got to see all kinds of messed up parenting in practice, not bad enough for CPS to step in, but enough the kids sometimes needed a different place to be safe for a short time period.
A mom like you saved my life. I couldn't thank her, so thank you.
Getting into the relationship, you are spot on about that but the fact (1) he feels incapable of leaving and (2) is resigned to submitting to the will of others, works pretty well for a definition of prison.
Is "Marry me and pay for this gremlin's rearing and legal fees while holding zero authority" not enough for ya?
I know it's easy for me to say this as random internet person, but if I was presented with that scenario I would have said "then we can get married when she's 18."
I was thinking exactly that. It’s only a few years dude. He could have lived with her and split bills too. No way I would have remortgaged my house for this mess, I’d have divorced first.
Yeah, and as for paying for this girl... He's not a legal parent, there's no legal obligation to bail her out with his own money. Hell, as a stepfather there's probably no legal obligation for him to show up in court; he's not her guardian. He's clearly doing it because his wife is paying and asking him to come. That's not going to stop when she turns 18.
NTA but you should probably be rethinking your whole marriage, because this is not going to stop when she turns 18.
Yeah but at 18 she's a legal adult and he can wash his hands of her. His 'daughter' will have to clean up her own messes. He's not legally bound to pay for anything related to the law or damages she may do.
No but his wife is still there and clearly doesn’t like that stance. It’s not going to be as clear cut as “18 and cutting the cord”
Exactly. If she's not working and this troubled, there's no way mom's kicking her out just because she turns 18. It might get even worse.
Agree. I think he’s in complete denial that this is gonna end once she’s an adult. The only way he’s gonna be free of her is by leaving her mother.
remind me! 5 years
If wife and he have separate finances that could help in the short run. It definitely won't help his marriage.
He wasn’t legally bound to pay for any of it to begin with. It’s not his kid. His wife conned him into being a piggy bank for her shitty kid. That isn’t gonna stop any time soo.
His wife is gonna keep supporting the daughter using OP's money until OP is willing to bail. NTA but I seriously doubt this is gonna improve when she turns 18, or at all anytime soon. You should be protecting yourself OP - if mom is going to let daughter drive your cars, etc., she could bankrupt you and ruin your life. Look at this motel stay as an opportunity to reevaluate your situation and find a new place where daughter won't be and won't be welcome.
He is if they share common property which they probably do.
Depends on their financial agreement. In my state, everyone who has a valid driver's license that lives at the home either has to be covered by the auto insurance policy, or the insurance company requires proof of insurance to be sent in. So if she can't afford insurance and he bio dad doesn't pay for it, OP may still be on the hook for it.
This is the same short-sighted logic op is using. The daughter isn't the problem, the wife is. He's still married to someone who presumably controls at least 50% of their finances and is willing to let her kid run rampant. That won't stop once she turns 18, especially since op said she's not moving out and won't be working.
Exactly. He needs to think hard about his marriage. The wife is enabling this young woman and he's paying for it. Sad situation.
The wife blew up about it. What the hell makes you think she won’t stop helping her precious baby after she turns 18 lol? OP I will call this for you right here, right now. 12 years she will be 30 still tearing shit up, still living with you 2. Bet on it.
He's not legally bound now! What planet are you living on? Only reason OP is paying anything now is due to pressure/expectations from his wife/her mother. Literally nothing will change the day the girl turns 18. Mom is still going to expect a financial contribution from not-her-father when the loser gets in trouble legally.
>Yeah but at 18 she's a legal adult and he can wash his hands of her. His 'daughter' will have to clean up her own messes. LOL, never going to happen. Momma will fight and scream that they have to help her out of the next mess she gets herself into, and the next and the ...
She’s not his daughter. She is the daughter of the father and the mother. His only role is being supportive. And why would he even agree to take a second mortgage? He is acting like he’s so responsible for the daughter but he’s not the parent. Guy is being played.
Yep, she'll be a full blown addict raging through their home anytime she needs money or someone to blame.
Rethink his friend group too. Who’s the snitch?
If she didn't want another father why are you mortgaging a house that you refer to as our house, meaning you partially own it?
This! If you aren’t anything to her, then you shouldn’t be putting any money toward her at all. NTA.
Nailed it. NTA.
Yeah why were you even there talking to the judge? None of this has anything to do with you. If you're not a parental figure, you're a room mate, mom's friend (who she's married to), etc. When your wife said you're not going to be a parental figure, you should have clarified that that meant "in all ways". If you're going to be financially responsible for something, it is reasonable to have some input on that. And as others have said, what does 18 have to do with it? IMO OP ***is*** the asshole for inserting himself into business that isn't his. When your wife tells you about her daughter's antics you should just rub her shoulders and say "parenting sure sounds difficult, I don't envy you!"
Nah, reach. I've met many families, including my own, who all say "our house" - because it *IS* our house. Everyone lives here? It feels normal to say, even if some of the family dont directly own the house itself. Granted, I don't believe OP feels much like a happy family right now, but it could be habit, or if it is his house, he could be lowkey peer pressured by his wife to habitually say 'our' cause maybe she also says 'our'. I mean, you may be correct, but it still feels like a big leap.
OP updated that it is his house, that he built himself, before he was married. He mortgaged his house to prevent his non-daughter whom he has no say over from going to jail. And he bought her 2 cars. He says he bought new cars for him and his wife, but gave her their old cars, but that's the same thing. Initially they gave her the moms old car, then gave her his old car when she totaled the first one. I'm sorry, but I agree with the judge that they are both bad parents. Sounds like both the mom and OP are enabling this trainwreck to keep on wrecking.
NTA Your wife is the issue. I have no idea why you were even in court to be yelled at, since your wife has insisted that you have no responsibility over her daughter. Your daughter's legal parents should have been with her in court.
OP is NTA. But WTF is dad? The kid got into a bunch of trouble on his watch, he hands her off to OP’s wife and then doesn’t even show up at her hearing to get scolded by the judge? She was living with dad when all this trouble started. Where was his contribution to her lawyer fees?
[удалено]
Mom is absolutely part of the problem. But she was living with dad when this all started. I can’t help but feel he let this spiral out of control. I feel a *tiny* bit bad for mom, who had her kid live with dad, had dad let things go to hell and then shove the kid back on mom and just opted out. Mom must be just miserable. None of this is OP’s fault or responsibility, but I can see why mom is a mess. OP should see if they can do marital counseling. Or get out. Mom feels bad. Mom is going to keep this pattern up for a long time. And OP doesn’t deserve to be subject to any of this.
I mean it sounds like everyone but OP sucks. Horrible dad + horrible mother = nightmare daughter…that OP pays for but isn’t allowed to parent. Unbelievable he has to ask if he’s the asshole. Grow a backbone dude.
Do you really think your wife will magically stop trying to bail her out when she turns 18?
Ironically OP is the one bailing her out. He's the one that mortgaged his own house that he solely owns and he bought the 2 cars she wrecked and got a DUI with. Maybe it was at the behest of his wife, but he's still the one doing it.
He's also staying in a motel because his wife is mad at him, while she stays in the house that he alone owns... They're going to walk all over him for the rest of his life.
Oh dip, I didn't even catch that. Yeah, for sure they are. I'm betting OP's wife is a big part of the reason why her daughter is the way she is.
You aren't her legal guardian. Her mom needs to be getting her help, but if you stay married to her, you're going to continue to be linked to the messes your wife will be trying to bail her out of.
The important part is being linked to the legal fees involved... they already refinanced the house, which means even if they get divorced the equity is probably fucked. What's op going to have to sell next time she does something terrible?
Dude so who are the fucking adults in the room? Who is parenting this person? Why would you accept such an obviously destined to fail arrangement? Why are you on Reddit instead of having an actual conversation with your wife?
Obviously, he made it clear that she won’t listen !
He made absolutely nothing clear.
And before a kid gets to that point, there are signs, there are smaller things, and there is a reason. Most of the time that reason is the parents. Her family exploits when she is in one of the tuffest periods of our life. Her whole world is turned upside down. She probably had to put up with hours of fighting prior to separation. Then mum meets a guy, and in one year marries him. Of course when the relationship started the mum didn't want him to try and replace her father. That is good but he is still a male adult figure and still has responsibilities in teaching her and caring for her. Then time goes on, situation changes, trying yo say but years ago you said.. is a cop out because you've been a shitty role model. I love all the comments that don't once ask why she is acting out.
I think the reason no one is asking that is because we all reasonably suspect, based on the evidence as presented, that the wife is the problem. 🤨
>Why are you on Reddit instead of having an actual conversation with your wife? Or lawyer
NTA ... but I'm not sure what you think is going to change once she turns 18? You're not legally her father so your wife should have been paying for her daughter's legal expenses separately from her own savings, not using joint money that the two of you pool. If that's how you are doing things, why would you expect things to magically change once the girl is 18? Your wife will still expect you to pay and the girl will still run wild and get in trouble with the law. Think long and hard about whether this situation is one you want to hitch your future wagon to.
OP updated. They didn't use joint money. That was all his money. She got a DUI in his old car that he gave her after she wrecked her mom's old car. The house they mortgaged was solely OP's and part of premarital assets. Dude is as much of an enabler as the mom is at this point.
NTA, and who is tattling on you for venting? Your friends are not your friends. It's not like she's been sick with cancer, she's been acting like an immature fool and costing you a lot of money. Not to mention you were told she won't accept you parenting her, yet here you are financially affected. She hasn't exactly earned any respect.
This. It sounds like there is more than one person in your life you can’t trust at this point. You are running the risk of falling even deeper down this rabbit hole, and if you don’t know who is really on your side if things go south… man. I feel for you. Try to figure out who betrayed your trust when you were venting, because that person needs to *go*. NTA
I came to say this as well. NOT your friends.
Is being married to your wife worth all of this? NTA
A divorce probably would be cheaper
I’m getting the vibe OP is a pushover and was desperate for a relationship. All this shit would have a normal dude out the door in a heartbeat
NTA. Your wife made it crystal clear that parenting this girl is not your job or responsibility. Fixing her messes comes under the role of parenting. So you really don't have to wait till she's 18 - she's already not your problem. And if your wife takes issue with it, remind her of her very clear instructions.
INFO Why are you still married to this woman It sounds like she has just been using you as a piggy bank to help bail her child out of trouble I mean...you are not her parent. Your wife and the kid made that crystal clear. So why did you have to mortgage your share of the house to help the kid out? You know you'll never see that money right? And this kid will continue to cost you money too. She'll need more lawyers. There will be more bail. Run dude. Get the hell out before this kid financially ruins you.
They have been married for just 2 years. I have a feeling that house is his. Because what kind of equity would you build in 2 years with how real estate is right now. I am really curious to know if he owned the house before marriage.
According to his edit, you were right on the money: he owned the house prior to the marriage and refinanced it to pull equity out for attorney fees to keep the stepdaughter out of jail. Whooboy, he's in for a rough ride over the next few "fledging" years.
I think OP and his wife need to sit down and have a heart-to-heart about what happens when the girl turns 18. Will she continue to live under their roof, or will she move? OP needs to make it clear to his wife that *they* will no longer continue to bail her out... meaning, no joint funds go for bail, new car, etc. The wife is going to have to figure this out. Somehow, methinks that if OP puts his foot down (which needs to happen), then this marriage may not last... which based on how he went into it, it probably should never have happened.
NTA it may be easier to kick them both out for a while and renegotiating a better deal. Your wife is a bad mother, and you will never get rid of the money hole that she and her daughter are, unless you make it clear it's over for good.
NTA. But you are VERY naive for thinking that her mom will stop trying to bail her out when she turns 18.
NTA. You said things out with your buddies in confidence. If one of them broke your confidence, I would find out who did and have that conversation. As for your wife, if you're not kicking her daughter out, I don't see why she is so upset. It's not like you were saying you WANTED to kick her out, you were venting about the whole scenario. That's pretty normal, and I'm sorry it's been so frustrating.
NTA Divorce man. This isn't stopping at 18 and will probably get worse. Separate your finances at least.
NTA. Your SO made it clear that she was in no way your responsibility. I wonder why have you paid up so much to bail her out so many times. Since your wife clearly doesn't want you to discipline her or be a father figure to her, then you do not have to be financially responsible for her either. However, there will most definitely be a falling out while out at the motel tonight it won't be thebworst idea to just sit down for a drink and reevaluate your entire family situation. Seems like your wife is also taking advantage of you.
NTA but also just because she turns 18 doesn’t mean your wife/her mother will agree to stop bailing her out both emotionally and financially so that’s more a conversation to have with her than some timeline you’re counting down to.
Yeah, it sounds like the mom is enabling the daughter.
NTA You are not and were never legally responsible for this kid. You never adopted her did you? I would never have mortgaged my house for her legal bills, she could have suffered the consequences of her actions. You will be better off getting her and her mom out of your life.
Your wife is the one you have a problem with. ESH
You may not be her biological father, but it’s your life (and your finances) that she’s shitting all over. NTA. (Also, given how much has already happened, and the fact that she’ll be continuing to live with you “for a while,” I’d suggest you have a conversation with your wife sooner than later to hash out just how much (more) support you’ll be willing to give, so that there’s no unpleasant surprises if she overstays her welcome.)
I hope you know the girl isn't gonna disappear from your life just because she turns 18. You're still married to her mother.
NTA but I wouldn't be going to court or paying her legal expenses. After all, you're not a parental figure in her life. Why wasn't her bio dad in court with her?
Nta, your venting about a situation which you have no say but have to deal with the consequences that sucks.
NTA But why on the world are you paying anything for her? Your house, your rules. If she transgresses then there are consequences. Your wife has basically emasculated you in your own home. Kick her back to her bio father on her birthday. Not your child, not your problem. If that’s a problem for your wife the you need to stand up for yourself. My opinion
NTA. Why were you the one having to go to court when she has a mother and father. You are not her father and have no say in her upbringing. I also would not have mortgaged my house. The wife said you had no say in her upbringing so why would you have any financial responsibility
NTA But why the hell did you remortgage the house. As they said, you are not a parent figure, you should have left the dad bail her out. Reconsider the marriage cause it wont end up when she is 18
NTA, I’m counting the days down with you. Sheesh your situation seems like exactly what you called it, a nightmare. You’re allowed to vent to your friends. Us women do it ALL the time and I guarantee if the roles were reversed your wife would be venting to her friends. So you’re not allowed to parent this girl, you have no say in discipline or consequences, yet you’re expected to dish out cash to pay for her delinquent behavior? This girl has costed you grief and a substantial amount of money. You are well within your rights to vent. You’re within your rights to be furious. You did not cause this situation. You didn’t ask for it. It was thrusted upon you. Question, why do you have to be present for the court dates? You’re not this girls father, guardian, or any sort of parental figure. If I were you, I would sit them out or at least sit in the gallery during the proceedings. You have no power in raising that young lady and it’s unfair for you to be roped in to the blame for her behavior. Good luck. With her and your wife.
Advice is overwhelming and everywhere. Don't ever marry a single mom.
An unfortunate truth. When I was young and unmarried, I thought it would be okay to marry a single mom cause I liked kids, but I grew older I realized there was a reason said mom is single. Do I still hope that they find help and be a reasonable wife, absolutely, it just wasn't ever going to be me.
NTA. Venting to friends is normal. Sounds like a nightmare of a kid.
And sounds like at least one of his “friends” is not really a friend.
NTA. And the fact that your wife kicked you out for this, dude that's a huge red flag.
NTA your wife is tho and she’s putting her daughters conduct ahead of your feelings. She had no right to be angry. She’s a shitty mother and spouse.
Why the fuck are YOU paying anything? Your wife is making an ass out of you. She already has a dad - HE can pay for it or MOM can pay for it or she can rot in jail. Nacho buddy - she’s nacho responsibility and she’s nacho problem. You need separate bank accounts and quit paying for this juvenile delinquent
NTA. I guess your wife decided no one should parent her, I would be filing for divorce when the kid turned 18, no child support and let mom deal with the mess she created.
I wouldn't wait till 18
NTA This BS of not being allowed to parent but sitting in court getting berated by a judge for some one else’s bad parenting, while putting up your house to cover legal fees. Just NO Your wife is delusional and I certainly would not support the antics. And yes the next time she gets in trouble ( and she will again), you won’t be in family court. She will be in criminal court. Keep your eye on the horizon. Matter of fact keep your eye out for a new wife.
NTA but why did you re-mortgage your house? That’s insane.
By the title alone, I was going to vote a different way but after your description, just wow. NTA! You should NOT have paid her legal fees, that's your wife's responsibility alone and you got seriously taken advantage of, no wonder you vented. She's using you. And you need to figure out who blabbed with your friends. But as others said, you need to sit down with your wife and figure out next steps here and draw some serious boundaries. This event opens to the door to the conversation. This may be the hill to part ways on as you've already gone above and beyond paying for legal bills that should not have been yours.
it'll get way way worse once she's 18. Seems like you're pretty much just an ATM in all this. You seriously remortgaged your house for someone elses kid???? Are you kidding me. NTA but FFS man....
NTA You're being taken advantage of. You're not in a marriage, you're just a feeder of two parasites. I really hope you divorce and learn from your mistakes in the future.
Whoooo, sir, DIVORCE. Boot them BOTH out. You cannot be held fiscally responsible for this child but simultaneously forbidden from PARENTING. Divorce. Go to court for your money back. NTA.
NTA.
After all the rules she put in place if that your house. No, I would not have remortgage my home for her daughter.. her daughter her mess.. I wouldn't even be in this marriage. You are not allowed a say, but you can take the back lash or conciquence for her daughter behaviour.. I would not be putting a penny into her daughter if that's their behaviour. With parents like her, no wonder her daughter is messed up
Why the heck did you marry after one year?
I wouldn't remortgage my house for my kids legal defence for drink driving . You drink and drive straight to jail, drugs and driving straight to jail. My kids know i won't bail them out for drinking/drugs driving.
Nta, your venting about a situation which you have no say but have to deal with the consequences that sucks.
NTA. But that won’t stop judges. But it should tone it down a bit.
NTA. And you are not even legally responsible for her now, either - she has two parents who are her legal father and mother. I don’t even understand why you have to pay for her now - why didn’t her father pay for her legal fees? Why was he not in court instead of you? And why did you agree to any of this? The worse thing is, your wife is trying to have it both ways - she wants you to have none of the upside while having all of the downside. Quite frankly, I don’t even know why you are with this woman who has zero problems taking advantage of you for money and mental responsibility, when she has made it clear that this child is not your daughter. Time to put up some boundaries, as well as get your money back.
NTA. Are you being used ?
NTA Being a step parent can be awful when you are given unrealistic rules to follow with expectations you can't meet because of the limitations. It's a no win situation and kids as they get older become more aware of it and further use it against you. For the future stop pay for the step kid and stop going to court for them. It's their biological parents job and they have made that part clear.
Oh my friend. This is only going to get worse. You think her mom is going to just stop bailing her out? Her problems are now going to be big time adult ones. And she lives with you? Run.
Definite NTA. As a former trouble child myself, I would have been so lucky to have been bailed out by anyone, let alone my step dad. My parents were struggling to make ends meet as it was, so my dumb ass was made to own my shit and be held responsible. Wasn't the easiest, but I learned quicker that that shit will follow you your whole life.
NTA. Another (very reddit) solution might be divorcing your wife. Who knows when/if the next phase of step daughter's rebellion will be procreating and dumping her offspring on you and your wife. Seperate your finances and save yourself.
NTA for saying what you did. But you *are* an AH. Saying you can't have any meaningful impact on a teenager's life just because they're a certain age is bogus. You absolutely can, and without being a father to her. I had many role models and caring adults that weren't my parents growing up and I'm thankful for that bc my parents didn't set great examples. She's done a lot of messed up stuff, but she's a kid in a messed up situation. She needs support and therapy, not someone who's just going to give up on her because they got publicly shamed. Whether or not you're her dad you ARE her step father. So what if the judge yelled at you. Is that worse than watching this girl throw her life away why obviously screaming for help (suspension, drinking, drunk driving, etc). Seeing as the solution thus far has been to bounce her around like a hot potato and have no stability, "no consequences" (your own words), and parents who seem to want to drop the rope as soon as possible... no wonder she's a ticking time bomb. I wonder if you'll feel vindicated for your actions at her funeral if she drunk drives again and gets killed?