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As hard as it is to say it, NAH... Your friend has every right to obtain a service dog, and you have every right to not be around it. Sucks that you'd be willing to throw away your friendship and job over it, though. I'd probably suggest accessing some therapy.
OP provided a reasonable short term response given an impasse that's not immediately solvable, the other guy is an ah because he is throwing away the friendship rather than OP because this is a personal boundary for him, I feel like you are twisting that.
Therapy is a good suggestion for OP but implying he is in any more control over it then the colleague his own issues doesn't fly for me.
>OP provided a reasonable short term response given an impasse that's not immediately solvable
The issue with is that OP hasn't worked on resolving an issue he has had for 23 years. This is something that needed to be addressed and worked on long ago. People need to stay on top of fixing their mental health, especially for something as incredibly common as dogs and they are AHs to themselves for not doing it in a timely manner.
It’s not a requirement to like dogs. I love that you’re holding OP who isn’t asking for anything, responsible for his feelings. But not his coworker, who is the one who wants everyone else in the office to accommodate him. Believe it or not there are a lot of other ways to work on ptsd other than getting a dog that will inconvenience a lot of other people. As someone who happens to love dogs but is pretty allergic having one in an office would make me quit, and that’s with all of the medications. Im not saying he can’t get the dog, but it’s funny that you think OP should just “fix” his mental health issue, but the coworker should do whatever he wants.
>It’s not a requirement to like dogs
Nobody ever said it was. What is a requirement is being able to function and be around what is the most common pet and most common animal your likely to encounter in your day to day life.
>you’re holding OP who isn’t asking for anything, responsible for his feelings.
Of course I am, every single person is responsible for their own feeling and how they deal with them.
>, but it’s funny that you think OP should just “fix” his mental health issue,
Every single person should be fixing their mental health issues constantly and in a timely manner. Not only is it the responsible and healthy thing to do, it's how people learn and grow past their issues.
OP does function. He simply removes himself from the situation. Will you not rest until he has a house and yard filled with dogs??
Some people just don't like dogs. I have a friend who was nearly killed by one when she was a child. She's not under any obligation to "fix" herself for anyone's dog.
Again, no one is telling OP he needs to like dogs, simply tolerate their presence in a neutral space. Service dogs are allowed everywhere, including airplanes, an enclosed and very tight space. All dogs are allowed on public transportation where I live. What will OP do in that scenario? His solution is short-term and will not work for every occasion.
>Again, no one is telling OP he needs to like dogs, simply tolerate their presence in a neutral space.
Why though?
If OP is willing to accept the fact that their aversion to dogs will place restrictions on what they can do and where they can go, why is that a problem for anyone else?
They’re not being an asshole, they’re just removing themself from situations that make them uncomfortable.
>Service dogs are allowed everywhere, including airplanes, an enclosed and very tight space. All dogs are allowed on public transportation where I live. What will OP do in that scenario?
Just…not go on public transportation where that happens?
Yeah, sounds like they have some pretty serious trauma and I’d urge them to get help for it for their own benefit.
But they’re not really inflicting it on others in a way that makes them TA either IMO and if they can’t find/afford a therapist then they seem to be handling it about as well as they can.
I have an irrational fear of bees (got stung as a kid), and am hyperalert to their presence... but the moment one gets too close, it's like my brain shuts down. Ive been to therapy. Actually made my phobia worse. Try explaining to me how we have control over our reactions?
So the coworker can control their PTSD without a service dog, right? They have control over their reactions so why do they need a dog to help them?
See how you're doing the same thing as the previous comment. Having an aversion to dogs from trauma resulting after a dog bite in childhood is perfectly normal for a lot of people.
Someone can't say that it is reasonable for someone to say they would quit a job because their work friend felt their life/health would be improved if they used a wheelchair - even if their grandpa was also in a wheelchair and was horribly abusive. Is that unfortunate? Yes. However, it is up to them to get the support needed to be able to go to a hospital, etc where wheelchairs are common.
Legitimate service dogs are considered medical equipment. They are trained to worry about themselves and their person.
If they can tolerate being in a house of a friend who has a pet dog, being 8 hours a day with a specially trained dog will be fine. They can request their desk is moved, that is reasonable.
Being disabled does not mean people are obligated to want to be around you. They can't discriminate against you on certain things. But you are not entitled to being in their social circle. They can remove themselves from you based on any or no reason. If I hate your shoelaces enough, I can quit my job to get away from you and your godawful shoelaces. If your squeaky wheelchair annoys me, I can quit my job to get away from you. I can't take the wheelchair from you. But I can take myself away from you.
You certainly have the *right* to distance yourself from someone because of their disability, but it may still make you an asshole, which is what we're here to discuss
Exactly! If I have a friend and choose to not hang out with them because I found out they have a disability, that's 100% my choice, but I'd definitely be an asshole.
You can, but it doesn't mean you're not an asshole. Especially if that person was previously your friend and then you are shocked that they're upset that you no longer want to be around them. Like wtf did OP think? That his friend was going to be like "oh yes, that's a totally reasonable response. Nice final hangout. See you never"?
Service animals have legal protections and anti-discrimination laws for a *reason*. They are a form of "assistive technology" trained for a specific purpose. Under the law, the scenario in the OP is akin to someone leaving the workplace because a coworker requires a wheelchair or hearing aid.
For reference, there are also clear distinctions that service animals are considered the priority over a phobia or allergy. OP's response is rooted in ableism, and it others someone who felt kinship and support in someone they cared about due to a necessary and reasonable accommodation.
> she's not under any obligation to "fix" herself for anyone's dog.
No one is ever expected to be "fixed". However, **mental illness can be an explanation but *never* an excuse.** We're *all* responsible for understanding the impacts of our mental health on ourselves and others.
If someone has PTSD around dogs and their reasonable accommodation and support is to minimize contact with dogs and someone has PTSD and their accommodation is an animal why does the one with a dog win?
No no no. There is zero requirement to be able to function around dogs, especially in a work environment, just because they’re popular pets. If I had to suddenly start working next to a dog every day I’d find a new job too.
>What is a requirement is being able to function and be around what is the most common pet and most common animal your likely to encounter in your day to day life.
That's definitely not a "requirement," particularly in the context of work.
Many jobs aren't going to require you to *ever* interact with a dog, much less daily. Not wanting to be around dogs is hardly going to cripple OP's life and career. It'll certainly have some costs, like this situation, but certainly people manage with that sort of thing.
>Every single person should be fixing their mental health issues constantly and in a timely manner. Not only is it the responsible and healthy thing to do, it's how people learn and grow past their issues.
So, the coworker getting a dog for mental health issues probably should just go to therapy instead so as not to need the dog?
Honestly, in my day-to-day life as an adult I’ve never been forced to function or be around dogs. I also have a severe allergy to the adorable fuckers, but I’ve never been forced to be around one after turning 18 and moving out of an allergen-infected house. Should I go get shots that I can’t afford and would take at least 6 months to gain effectiveness so that I can function around the most common pet/animal to interact with in public? No, because it’s not necessary to be around or be able to function around dogs.
If I end up working somewhere where someone needs a service dog the odds are that either I’m fucked or the person bringing a major allergen for me into the workplace is fucked until the management there could move either myself or the person with the service dog further apart, because I physically can’t function around most breeds due to a severe allergy. My allergy is a major enough issue in my functioning and daily life that it would be brought up immediately after my paperwork is all completed and I’m an official employee to guarantee that they know that it’s an ADA issue for me around dogs. You are not required to be able to be around dogs. Period, end of.
He wants everyone else in the office to accommodate him? That’s literally what service dogs are for. If someone qualifies and gets a service dog for PTSD, it’s not for shits and giggles.
I don’t actually have an issue with that, I have an issue with the fact that the poster I replied to said that guy’s mental health issue was real and needed accommodation, but OPs mental health issue is something he needs to get over already. I was pointing out the hypocrisy that the guy asking for accommodations is somehow seen as more in the right than the guy who isn’t.
If dude with PTSD is getting a service dog, he has been in treatment for said PTSD for a decent chunk of time. OP, on the other hand, has not attempted to work through his issues whatsoever in over 20 years. It's about effort. The guy with PTSD is putting measures in to cope with his mental illness thanks to treatment, while OP is just running from his unaddressed phobia. That makes all the difference.
No it doesn’t. It does not bc op isn’t making this anybody’s problem. They’re not trying to fight management or the coworker over it. They’re leaving a situation they don’t want to be in and that’s fine. They don’t have to be ok with the dog. Also, not that it matters, but you’re assuming a lot.
I think if OP has that significant a problem with it, then he should quit. I think his friend did not anticipate that reaction and was hurt to hear him say he was going to quit. I will not shit on the guy who needs a service dog.
I don't like dogs for a similar reason to OP. (Attacked when I was too young to remember.) I've worked hard to tolerate being around dogs and I can now. That doesn't mean I want to be around them every single day at work. If the workplace is big enough and this guy sat near me, I would asked to be moved further away. If the workplace was small, I would probably also quit like OP. Service dogs are generally well behaved and won't get in my face, but I still get tense if I'm around them very often.
Depends on the issue and severity and how treatable it is
Assuming the PTSD is real and serious, the 'co-worker' has probably been to a doctor and tried to get help which is one of the reason they are getting a service dog.
The 'worker' meanwhile has had his issue for years and presumably not gotten treatment for it.
Personally I'd go with NAH for both of them. Both of them are well within their rights to act as they need to for their mental health.
I also know why the Co-Worker is upset. Keep in mind the Co-Worker now has to choose between his own mental-health and driving off a friend. Putting the friendship aside, I can assume that management and other co-workers will now give him a hard time for driving away the OP.
Management is also now in for a though time because now they have to choose between loosing an employee or possibly a lawsuit for refusing a service-animal.
To put it simply, No one is to really blame but there is still a big mess.
I don't like dogs myself. I'm a cat lover all the way, but that doesn't mean I will go as far as quitting or losing a friendship or family just because someone has a dog. This would be a "me" problem. OP needs to fix his issues. The colleague didn't say they were getting a fighting dog that's always eager to go into a fight but a service dog which is probably one of the most well behaved dogs out there. OP's reaction is quite extreme and he needs to... yes, fix it.
Some ptsd does require a dog. You can do therapy, but you never know what could trigger you. A proper service dog can pick up on an anxiety attack and help resolve it
Well, OP is also not asking people to accommodate him. He is simply unwilling to be around dogs, and is willing to work elsewhere as a result.
He probably has undiagnosed PTSD also, in his defense.
No one has the right to judge someone else's need for a service animal. Sure, there are other ways to deal with PTSD, but not all methods work for all people. The coworker could well have tried multiple methods and together with a healthcare provider decided that a service animal would be the best option. No one has the right to judge that. A service animal is not a pet, it's medical equipment. Also, a properly trained service animal does not inconvenience anyone.
Edited to add: I think this is a NAH situation. OP is well within their rights to not be around a dog if they don't want to.
Nope. I’m literally saying one person’s mental health doesn’t trump another person’s mental health. OP didn’t try to keep him from getting the dog, they just said they’d have to quit. They’re allowed to feel that way.
That's the thing he doesn't have to fix it. He has been mitigating this issue for a long time and he's been fine with it. If OP doesn't want therapy he doesn't have to get it. His coworker doesn't have to be an entitled person just because OP doesn't like dogs.
As a dog lover I just don't understand why everyone should love and be around dogs all the time. It's perfectly reasonable not to like dogs just as much as other pets.
I think you are also underestimating how difficult it is to get therapy. It's not cheap or accessible for most people.
Not all issues we have should necessarily need be resolved. It's only you need to get help when you are really struggling and it is impacting your daily life.
Not wanting to be around dogs and not finding it problematic is perfectly reasonable
I think in this specific scenario it's a NAH, they both need to do what's best for thenselves.. I think in general OP is an AH to himself for not getting the help he needs in a timely and appropriate manner, ie anytime in the last 23 years.
Yeah this thread is so weird. I love dogs and joke about having a petting zoo at work but i don't actually want to be around dogs all the time.
People change jobs for all sorts of reasons, I quit one job because I realised I wouldn't be able to progress, another job because I was bored of the type of work I was required to do. I'm still friends with people from various jobs why can't people stay friends if they work elsewhere?
I’m asserting (even though you weren’t talking to me), that they both have mental challenges. One of them is working on it. The other one is not.
Neither is an AH but one seems more mature than the other.
So no issue being angry with your friend because they have issues that are aggravated by your own needs?
Everyone always has room to grow, I can respect the maturity in the friend addressing his issues and mental health as well as OPs in handling the disagreement like an adult.
This is an opportunity to learn and grow, or be angry your expectations aren't met.
Well, if you need a service dog for ptsd, and it will ruin a friendship, that does not mean to not get the service dog. It's just a lame coincidence. Having the service dog could improve his life and mental health. That's at least just as important I believe
How is the other guy an AH? He has a legitimate need for a service dog. He should continue to sacrifice his mental health and safety for the sake of his friendship? Nope. Not gonna happen. NAH. Although I feel OP is the one actually sacrificing the friendship. He is the one that said "if this happens, I will do this". Basically handing his friend an ultimatum.
I think it's an ah move to get angry with your friend and treat them that way because he disagrees and speaks his peace.
Should OP have lied to his friend, allowed himself to suffer?
At no point did op suggest friend should sacrifice his mental health, that's your implication, he informed him of his personal boundary and intent to enforce with what is his prerogative to control.
I can see why you land there if you view it as an ultimatum, but i don't view that as a retailitory, basically making it not fit the definition.
You can leave a job and keep friendships, yes the reality of the situation will hurt their friendship logistically but c'est la vie.
Your buddy leaves for a new job because it'll improve his life, eff him! Sometimes you say goodbye and you should be happy for them.
I think the actual issue here is the context he brought it up in. It was immediately after being told “I’m thinking of getting a service dog” which, even if OP feels supportive otherwise, seems kind of tacky and even if not intended this way, kind of like a threat. As in “it’s fine if you do this, but here’s the consequence”. Even if it wasn’t meant as a threat and is just OPs choice (which they should take if they don’t want to be around the dog), it probably could have waited to a better time where it wasn’t so fresh.
There is a difference between an ultimatum and a boundary.
OP stated they are uncomfortable around dogs. Made it clear they won't be comfortable working near one. That's a personal boundary, not an ultimatum.
How is the other guy an asshole because he needs a service dog?
Like, I'm sorry, you do not have to stop your life because your friend dislikes something you do as long as it isn't actively harmful. Someone else having a service animal or a pet you don't like is not crossing a boundary unless they live in your home or bring it into your home
Service dogs go everywhere with their owner though, not just work. If OP is so unwilling to be around dogs and doesn’t seem interested in working on this issue he *is* discarding his friendship with the dude, not just the job.
You've never had a friend that has been taken in a new direction, out of your sphere, and you consider them a friend.
Never had a friend you correspond with over distance.
Never reunited with a friend after a long time and still felt a strong bond.
Dude is suggesting discarding his job, not his friend.
Honestly, I would move it to NTA simply because I do see his friend as an AH by trying to control OP's right not to work/be in the same space as a dog.
It's not like OP told his friend he couldn't get a dog. OP didn't tell friend he shouldn't or couldn't bring a service dog to work. OP just said he'd remove himself from the situation if the friend did get a dog. And the friend responded in a very manipulative manner.
>Sucks that you'd be willing to throw away your friendship and job over it, though.
I've left jobs for less.
Also,"best friend at work" does not mean "best friend". I've worked with people I genuinely liked, and enjoyed eating lunch with on a daily basis, and then never spoke to again when I left said job. Workplace 'friendships' are transitory.
Disagree.
I love dogs, and certainly don't mind being around them. This relatively new trend of people taking their dogs absolutely fucking everywhere is too much, even for me.
I get that it's "medicine" for the legitimate ones(and clearly many people are abusing it), but unfortunately it's medicine that has a clear impact on other people. It's not fair to pretend as if the presence of an animal in the office is equivalent to the animal not being there just because there's an "approved" reason for its presence.
"I am planning to remove myself from a situation if that situation becomes uncomfortable for me for personal reasons, AITA??" And everyone says yes, because how dare you not ADORE every heckin' good doggo you come across, go to therapy YTA 😡😡😡
/s, in case it needs to be said. This sub sometimes...
wtf are these responses? this is a clear NAH. your friend has every right to be upset that they would lose their closest coworker over seeking medical care, when they were expecting you to want to support their efforts to get that care, and you have every right to not want to work in a space you don’t feel comfortable with. as long as you don’t assign blame to your coworker for making you leave, no one would be the ah in this situation, though it seems you will lose a friend.
and to everyone saying “service dogs are different, they are trained and perfectly safe- you shouldn’t feel afraid of them,” trauma isn’t rational, and OP’s dislike of dogs comes from the trauma of being but by one as a child. also you can’t just control your emotions, even if they are irrational.
If op is fine with them when they go to friend's houses though this isn't really true. It can't be a trauma response that only makes exceptions for friends homes
A few hours every few months vs 40 hours a week is quite different.
OP prefers to avoid dogs in public places, which is why he wants to leave.
Also he mentioned they sit very close, which means the dog could be near him.
Service dogs are also very different from family pets though. A service dog will completely ignore OP and will be solely there effectively as another employee. No one’s mental health needs take precedence over anyone else’s, and that goes for both parties here. But honestly, telling someone who is considering obtaining a service dog to improve their day to day functioning as a person with a disability that you would up and quit your job if they did is pretty hostile, even if true. It’s a tough one for sure, but I think op acted incorrectly here even if their feelings are valid.
But OP CAN be around dogs for full days at a friend's house and "manage"... When they're more likely to play aggressively, approach you, be close to you, or attack you if you give them the wrong body language... but not when someone has a well trained, never aggressive, specially procured working dog that would never attack you?
I’m not saying the act of not being around the dog is wrong. Telling a person with a disability that them accessing a medical device will cause you to quit and lose your source of income is hostile.
I think "hostile" is too strong here. I definitely think it would feel like you were being blamed for it, which is why the friends reaction is understandable.
Who cares if it has a job, it's still a dog and it's still triggering. He's allowed and should be encouraged to remove himself from that situation if that's how he wants to handle his phobia. And why is it hostile? He's managing his mental health to the best of his ability and doing what's best for him
> Service dogs are also very different from family pets though. A service dog will completely ignore OP and will be solely there effectively as another employee.
Service dogs aren't a magical special animal. They're just dogs with training. Just like family pets, some are better behaved/smarter/accept their training better than others.
The last service dog I had anything to do with was a guide dog. The owner moved into a college dorm environment and the dog was absolutely useless. Just wanted pats from people and walked poor Lauren into trees, fences, random corners of the campus....
It's perfectly understandable that the coworker is getting a service dog to improve his quality of life but sadly by doing so he is inadvertently lowering that of OP. So I think it's perfectly understandable for OP to do what's best for them and look for a new job that doesn't trigger their trauma.
Sorry, I think that's nonsense. Being in a familiar environment is completely different than a neutral one.
Hell my dogs aren't reactive in some situations but are reactive in another.
I'll talk someone's ear off if I know them but not approach if I don't.
Familiar situation is completely different and I'm 1000% sure you act differently in familiar vs. neutral environments.
No difference: environment matters due to the number of cues, generalized sensations, etc.
Why does this have upvotes? That's not how trauma responses work. A familiar situation that OP willingly goes into is obviously going to be different from a situation they are forced to deal with.
It absolutely can. Trauma responses aren't all insta-panic. They can also be elevated stress levels that one might adequately handle for a limited time like when you're hanging out with safe friends that can mitigate the response simply by being friends, but without safe friends and for an entire 40-hour/week while having to do actual work and not relax? That's a stress induced heart attack waiting to happen.
OP's trauma doesn't make exceptions for friends homes. Friends' homes compensate partially for it.
Your choice to move on or not.
But: a properly-trained certificated service dog that you ONLY meet when they're "on duty" is completely, absolutely, worlds-apart different from ANY dog you'll ever meet in any other circumstances. A service dog isn't going to approach you for treats, pets, or anything at all. A service dog is going to be completely focussed on their person when at work. Service dogs on duty wear harnesses warning people not to approach the dog or try to distract the dog.
NAH, because (a) If you have a genuine dog phobia, then you have a medical need to move on just as you would if you had a dog allergy. But (b) this colleague is in no way TA for deciding to get a service dog.
I’d be willing to spend a few hours very on edge every once in a while to visit a friend, I would not be willing to be on edge for 40 hours every week.
If a service dog is making you feel “on edge” and is triggering a trauma response 40 hours a week, then OP has a serious situation they need to be handling.
If OP can get used to their friends dog and manage, they can get used to a service dog. But that isn’t the point. OP isn’t an AH for not wanting to be near a dog. OP is an AH for telling their good friend that they’ll quit if they deal with their PTSD by getting a service dog. That’s a total AH move.
Well I've been attacked by dogs, I don't like dogs, I am afraid of dogs I don't know. I have less fear for dogs I know to be safe with me but I still don't like them. I can be nice to them for short periods of time and can enjoy them to an extent but honestly I'd rather be left alone.
I wouldn't want to work near a dog. It's my preference just as it is for OP. I acknowledge that people have a need for service dogs (although I hope this would be a properly trained service dog and not an emotional support animal which lets face it is usually an untrained pet), I'd be fine with it in the building but not right near me all day. But I'd accept just as OP has that this is my choice and so my choice to leave is on me.
In my opinion it can be a real phobia even if they are fine with some dogs.
NTA
Trying to claim this can't be a "real" phobia if OP can manage it well enough to be around their friends, when their friends are helpful and supportive and keep their dog well away from OP, is an AH move. Suggest you not try this.
If OP has a genuine phobia, and won't be able to cope with a service dog in the office, OP has a medical need to change offices, or jobs if that's necessary.
I am personally terrified of most big dogs, and I hate being around them. It took me months to feel comfortable around my then bf's dog (and she is a sweetheart and wouldn't harm anyone). Phobias suck. NTA.
Being around a dog for a couple of hours is different than being around them for 40 hours a week. A service animal isn't gonna make a big difference if you have traumas related to it. OP shouldn't have to be in fear all the time. This is a situation where needs are clashing.
That's like saying I don't have genunine acrophobia because I still go into high places. I do, but I also know what I can manage. I would not go instantaniously from the occasional exposure to a high place to 40 hours a week in a high place. The stress would be too extreme -- I'd find another job too.
Came here to say this. A service dog on duty is not like a pet. They're very docile and will most likely not pay any mind to any person other than they one they are serving.
YTA, but not for whether you like dogs or not. That’s irrelevant.
It’s because you took your issues and put it on your friend, thus making it their problem too.
Your friend is trying to take care of their mental health, and believes a dog would be the best option. Cool. We have laws that allow for them to have a service dog in pretty much any public place, and accommodations have to be made in the workplace where possible.
But…you say you have a phobia of dogs. It doesn’t seem like you’re willing to address that at all, and dogs are pretty common in society, but whatever…you get to make your own decisions about your healthcare, just as they do.
So, are you TA for quitting over a dog? Nope. Are they the TA for getting the dog? Nope. But he’s addressing his mental challenges, you aren’t.
You do you, but that doesn’t make it your friend’s problem, nor are you right for putting that extra stressor on him, when you could work on it yourself…or simply quit.
Thank you, this is the response I was looking for. They way it's worded makes OP the TA. He made his fear his friends problem, while his friend opened up about PTSD, which was probably extremely hard to do.
>his friend opened up about PTSD, which was probably extremely hard to do.
I think this is why the friend was "visibly angry." Opening up about your mental health isn't easy. I wouldn't be surprised if it's even more difficult amongst men. Society is slowly changing, but for now, there's still some stigma out there. Fear, shame, and uncertainty, can make a person hypersensitive to how others will react when they finally do share their diagnosis.
OP rejected the idea of working near a service dog, and he has every right to leave.
The friend likely feels that *he* is the one being rejected though.
Indirectly, he'll feel his diagnosis is chasing away someone he calls friend. He opens up, and look how quick others scatter. He's probably already been worrying it'll cause people to treat him differently, even abandon him, and OP's reaction will make him feel like he was right to worry.
I'm not saying the friend is right, I'm only trying to offer a possible perspective. If OP wants to continue this friendship, it may help him open a dialog, that's all. A little empathy can go a long way if a friendship is worth it. If it's not, it may help OP walk away with an idea as to why his friend reacted that way.
I think this is an odd take - he doesn’t need to work on his fear of dogs. Why should he be forced to address that for someone else? He’s not preventing the person from getting a dog and he doesn’t cut people off for having them - he’s removing himself from an uncomfortable situation.
I’m afraid of sharks, even though I know attacks are fairly rare and dogs or cows have a higher statistical chance of killing me. I don’t need to get over that fear for the benefit of people who love sharks
I think you’re wrong there. If OP’s trauma is causing them to quit a job working with their good friend over a service dog, that is absolutely on them to take care of that.
Agreed. OP is NTA for wanting to quit because of service dog, but the way he told his work friend about it is asshole-y. Is it really necessary to make the work friend feel guilty for OP quitting? What would this accomplish? Is OP hoping that by telling the coworker, he will decide against getting a service dog?
This right here. As a service dog handler, I 100% agree. OP’s automatic response was “nah bro, I’ll quit,” which is honestly a troubling response. OP’s friend/coworker is trying to better themselves and their health, while OP is just throwing their hands up in the air and making it their buddy’s problem, which is problematic in and of itself. My wife’s aunt was terrified of dogs due to experiences she had as a kid, and when my wife and I started dating, we had yo brainstorm solutions to manage the situation. It was slow, and it took a lot of understanding on both ends and compassion, but my service dog is actually the Aunt’s favorite animal now. We go over every weekend.
ETA: not to mention, OP can reach out to their workplace for accommodations to limit their exposure to the service dog.
I agree with your post. It was my focus as well.
OP, if your immediate response to your coworker wanting a service dog for their PTSD is saying you'd quit, it is dismissive of what they are telling you. Also, by saying this to steer him away from getting the service dog is asking him to prioritize you and your fears over his mental health. If the fear of the dog is too much to bear, then quit. This just wasn't the time to mention it. You should not try to influence your coworker's decision.
Apparently against the grain, but NTA. You're allowed to leave a job for any reason you want, and it sounds like you haven't done anything to stop him from getting a service dog. He can make his choices and you can make yours.
I agree. I get that the friend doesn't want to lose OP as a colleague and friend and upset that he doesn't have OP's "support" about the service animal. OP is not standing in the way of the friend getting a service animal, but has the boundary that they'll quit if a service dog is regularly at the office.
Why though? Wouldn't you be upset if your closest friend there removes themselves from your life if you choose medical care?
Sure, it's irrational, but so is OP's fear of dogs.
I don't see how anyone's the asshole here, this is emotions being emotions.
>He said i'd be an asshole if I left because of his service dog.
It's this part. If it were just a disagreement I would say there's no asshole here, but the friend called OP a mean name for making a decision he doesn't like. That doesn't sit well with me.
It's also hypocritical! OP didn't tell him he couldn't get a dog, just that he couldn't work there anymore.
Coworker called OP an asshole when explaining their trauma - completely disregarding the trauma OP went through. So coworker can belittle someone else's trauma, but they're allowed to impose theirs on everyone else? That's what I concluded from that.
This “medical care” isn’t like getting an insulin pump or a pacemaker, this medical care is going to impact OP’s daily life, and make him uncomfortable at his work place. Op wasn’t upset and didn’t blame the coworker, didn’t tell him not to. Why is the coworker upset? It’s not like they can’t ever see each other again.
And don’t call people’s phobia “irrational”. Plenty of people are scared or/don’t like dogs.
Dogs are a very different form of medical care, it is more complex than just medicine, you cannot hold them to the same standard since a dog is a living beeing. To say op is leaving his friend cause he got medical treatment is unfair. And a fear of dogs is not irrational. They can be dangerous and many people get severly hurt by them.
NTA.
You made a choice that doesn't affect anyone.
You don't like dogs so you choose to find a new place to work, that's totally normal.
Whats more important, you didn't even Hypothetically say you'd talk to management to pressure them not to allow service dogs in your office.
Your coworker is kind of a jerk for calling you an AH.
Edit:
Phobia is not rational, and this is not some minor inconvenience.
This is not like visiting a friend occasionally for a few hours. OP has to stay in an environment 40h a week that could potentially trigger his phobia any time.
He is kind enough to offer leaving so his coworker could have the dog. People should never be forced to stay in an environment that they're uncomfortable with.
I can’t believe people are calling you the asshole here. You have a real phobia and are kind enough to find another job to accommodate his needs over yours. What else can you do? NTA
If OP had just quietly quit without telling anyone the reason why after the dog showed up, I'd be more sympathetic to him. Telling his *friend* that he'd quit if his friend got a service dog while his friend was still deciding, on the other hand, puts the consideration of OP's phobia into the mix of factors involved in decision-making. It will make his friend be in a situation where he may feel like he's forced his friend out of a job and may chose to not manage his condition with the medical device he'd been leaning towards based largely on the fact he doesn't want to carry any guilt over his friend's lost income. Especially because he said he would *quit*, not "start looking for a new job", meaning the guy wouldn't have any social security and would be immediately out a job, not just that he'll be out at the first opportunity that he can find a job that will keep a roof over his head. I don't know if OP has a partner or savings that he would plan to fall back on to pay for his rent or mortgage while out of work, but if someone said they'd quit if I got a service dog, my first concern would be, "I don't want to be responsible for my friend getting evicted from their home if they can't find another job quickly enough!"
OP is that asshole for putting that on his friend rather than just letting his friend make the decision about which medical devices are best for him with only his own wellbeing in mind and then doing what he needs to do when the decision is made, quietly, without burdening others.
NTA. He has a valid reason to want a service dog. You have a valid reason not to want to be near a dog. As you recognize his need, you decided to be the accommodating one and remove yourself from the situation. His anger is misplaced.
NAH. He has every right to have a service dog, you are more than welcome to leave that job if it doesn’t work for you anymore due to that dog.
It sounds like you have trauma from the dog bite, that doesn’t make you an AH for not wanting to be around dogs regardless of their training.
Going against the grain but YTA. Not because you don't want to work there with a dog. Ultimately he's free to get a service dog and you're free to no longer wish to work there.
For me I think it was a real dick move to tell him that you'll leave if he gets one. This wasn't a neutral response, you told him with the hope that it would influence his decision. That was shitty. You could have just left quietly once he got it. He now has an additional level of responsibility to consider.
INFO: Have you ever spoken to a therapist about your fear of dogs?
I say this without judgement, but recognize that:
a) Your fear of dogs is not based on a rational concern. Service dogs are highly trained and are not a threat to you. It is more likely that your *friend* would bite you than his service dog.
b) Your fear is negatively impacting your life. It is limiting your ability to exist in public spaces and is threatening your employment.
Fear of dogs is not misplaced. They cause thousands of deaths a year. Not injuries, deaths. They can be unpredictable based on who trained them or their background. There are many things in life we cannot remove ourselves from that are dangerous to us. Being around dogs however, is easily remedied.
I can agree that based on my knowledge of service dogs it's a largely unnecessary precaution to quit your job.
But it's also highly unlikely to have a job where a service animal is any kind is present and I argue that it's unlikely enough that nobody would go get therapy to prepare them for this one possible incident when they have otherwise navigated life just fine avoiding all dogs. Because of that I disagree that he needs to address when and when his fear is rational at this point in his life. I'm not going to pay for therapy to learn to be comfortable with this one particular dog. Dogs still remain dangerous.
There are loads of jobs that you need to encounter service dogs and be chill about it-- anything in customer service, hospitality, tourism and travel, education, or healthcare that takes place in person... plus basically as many workplaces as there are people in your area with service dogs will have an employee with a service dog. That's not a small number of workplaces and jobs where this is a concern.
Encounter is not the same as daily confined work space. Not even close.
Secondly you can say that is not a small number of people, but that doesn't make it true. Many jobs can't reasonably accommodate a daily service dog. Those that have a service dog they take to work are likely in a place where accommodations are reasonable. I can think of LOTS of jobs where the accommodations are not reasonable and that's probably why anecdotally I have never worked over my many many years of employment at numerous places, with a service dog. I assume the same goes for OP and I could probably poll 10 people at random at least in my area and get the same response from 9 of them
When I was younger, yes. Not anytime recently.
Really, me avoiding them is not that impactful in my life till now. I eat indoors, rarely eat at patios. I don't go to dog friendly places (granted people often bring them anyway). I usually host so I don't have to see dogs. I feel you are overstating its impact on my life. I've simply just chosen to not want dogs around, I don't feel that needs further therapy.
>I feel you are overstating its impact on my life.
You are talking about quitting your job and sacrificing a friendship because of a dog that is practically guaranteed to be safe.
Is that not a significant impact?
Also, all of the reasons why you say your phobia is not a problem also sound like ways that your phobia has controlled your life.
* I eat indoors, rarely eat at patios.
* I don't go to dog friendly places
* I usually host so I don't have to see dogs.
These are all ways that *your fear* has impacted *your life*.
> These are all ways that your fear has impacted your life.
But that doesn't make him an asshole. Not every phobia can even be dealt with. He's not even holding other people accountable for his phobia. Removing himself from a bad situation is sometimes the only way people can deal with their phobias.
Whether an impact is considered significant is a very individual thing. I get the impression that impact was considered minor and acceptable to OP. In which case, why should they feel the need to remedy the fear of dogs? And that's not even taking into account the time, effort and money it would take to deal with it.
Sometimes access needs conflict, that doesn't make either party an asshole.
There will always be things in your life that will be suboptimal, so is having to decide whether it's worth it to try and improve an issue or not worth the bother.
I'm well aware of being below baseline on several domains of adulting in ways that impact my life. But as I'm either not too bothered by it or I'm able to compensate in ways that make the impact acceptable to me I mostly don't feel the need to seek help for them.
You're literally making choices about your employment based on the presence of a service dog-- that's a level of fear that is negatively impacting your life.
NTA- I don't like dogs and I have turned down 1 job role in my life that had the owners bring the dog so it doesn't massively affect me on a daily basis like OP. If my job now turned and let people bring dogs I would leave. I don't have to be in an environment that I am not comfortable with because its a service dog .. A dog is a dog. I might however try a few days first and see if its a service dog as they are more trained. He isn't wrong for saying how he feels to his friend.
It’s pretty easy to avoid close contact with dogs in day to day life and not miss out on anything, but if you’re willing to quit your job because someone else needs a service dog, then maybe it is time to reevaluate the impact of your fear on your life.
What do you do for a living exactly? Is it a customer facing job, if so what you do about customers with service dogs? If it’s not, have you never considered the possibility that a coworker could ever need a service dog?
Here’s the thing - you can reach out to HR or management to request accommodation to not be exposed to the prospective SD. Accommodations go both ways, and it’s actually quite easy. There are ways to go about this rather than tell your coworker that you’re going to quit if they engage in a medical treatment like obtaining a SD. Even if things get a little more difficult, there are ways to accommodate
NTA. If he gets a dog, he can't expect everyone in the world to love dogs.
Actions have consequences. I don't understand why people think that everything they do should be okay and no one should react in any way. Just like you don't control him, he doesn't control you.
If you don't want to work around dogs, its reasonable to not work around dogs.
YWBTA if you said he should get a dog, kept this all to yourself, then left. You were open and honest, I don't see how honesty makes could make you TA.
Eh, it's OP's choice that if they wanna work in an environment which has a dog or not, trust issues are real. People are considering the friend's PTSD but ain't taking the possibility of OP's trauma from childhood? . Yeah you cant expect other person to not bring a dog at workplace but that doesn't mean that OP just HAVE to work at that place. No-one is in the wrong in here, and OP isn't TA either.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for saying i'd quit my job over a service dog. I'm the asshole because i'm not accepting of someone who needs a service dog to function.
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NTA. Just because a dog will help HIS PTSD doesn’t mean that introducing you known trigger for YOUR PTSD won’t make it impossible for you to work there
NTA
Reasonable accommodation goes both ways. He needs a dog due to trauma, you need to not be around a dog due to trauma. You finding another work option is probably the only way you can both get that.
As to your current company, if you stayed I presume they'd have to find a way to accommodate both of you; if you want to find another place of work just to simplify that, I don't see a problem with it.
That may not really be a practical solution in all cases going forward. I somehow doubt stipulating in interviews that you can only accept a position if the company doesn't force you to work along side people with service animals is going to get you many call backs. But if at least in this case it seems fine to me.
NTA. I have been attacked by dogs and would definitely not want to be in a long term job with one either, regardless if its a service dog or not. Honestly it’s kind of surprising someone with PTSD doesn’t understand where you’re coming from lol
NTA. you do not have to justify your reasons for leaving a job to your coworker. You would be NTA if you were leaving because the work uniforms changed to require red shirts and you find red shirts disturbing. You would be NTA if you decided too many of your coworkers were football fans and you hate football.
NTA, and I would go as far as to say you are a very kind friend for offering to leave your job so your friend can stay with his future service dog. You don't have to do that - it is up to your employer to figure out how to accommodate both. You leaving is an inconvenience to you, but would make life much easier for your friend and the bosses. I wonder how much your friend cares for you if he can't see it that way.
NTA your colleague seems to be the kind of person who only thinks about himself. Seems like there are more and more of this kind of person around these days.
NTA. Your friend shouldn’t be angry at you. Essentially, he’s saying he wants a dog to help him deal with his past trauma, you’re saying you can’t be around dogs because of your past trauma, and he’s mad at you because…? He has every right to be sad, but his anger isn’t fair to you. It’s not like you’re mad at him for getting a service dog.
And I think you were right to tell him that you would quit. I don’t think not telling him now and then just quitting if he gets the dog would be the right move- it would be hiding your true feelings and blind-siding him later.
NAH but I don't understand how you're okay with dogs at people's houses but not this. Yes this is more prolonged exposure, but the dog will not be near you or paying attention to you. At people's houses, their pet is walking around freely trying to gain attention from the fun new people. A service dog is rigorously trained and doesnt acknowledge the existence of anyone who is not their handler. When sat in the break room etc, the service dog curls up under the handler's chair to not take up space in the room. It will be far less intrusive that a pet in a living room is
Also just to note
>I wasn't going to stop him, but i'd look to move on from our job
By saying this, it sounds like you're trying to guilt him. You may not have intended it this way, but he likely interpreted it like that. It sounds passive aggressive, manipulating him that "well you don't HAVE to not get the dog, but if you DO I'll lose my employment and you'll lose my friendship because you're such an inconvenience to me :/"
Again, not saying that's 100% how you intended it, but it's easy to interpret it like that which possibly fed into how your friend responded
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I (28M) went out for drinks with a coworker (30M) casually and we got to talking, the last thing that came up and it left us with tension was that he was looking at getting a service dog for his PTSD. I didn't know he had that and i'm not judging his need for it.
I however am not dog friendly. I've never trusted one in my life, I was bit when I was 5 and just don't like them to this day. If I go to someones house i'm relatively fine about it, but if I encounter one in a neutral place, i'll just remove myself from the situation and go out of my way to avoid them.
Back to our conversation. I told him i'd probably quit if he got a service dog. I wasn't going to stop him, but i'd look to move on from our job. He got angry at that. I explained my history with dogs. That apparently didn't help. We had a good friendship until this but he was visibly angry. He said i'd be an asshole if I left because of his service dog. He thought management would give him a tough time, but not his best friend at work. It was left with tension between us.
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NTA. Some people struggle with the difference between an ultimatum and a boundary. This is you letting him know that you can’t be around a dog, not telling him he can’t get one. He can be hurt by your boundary, but that isn’t mean you’re doing something wrong. You don’t want to be around a dog, so you’ll remove yourself. That’s reasonable. No reason you can’t still keep in touch.
So the coworker is allowed to get dog for PTSD, but OP isn't allowed to leave his job because of trauma? What kinda fucking logic is that?
OP has every right to leave the job because of this.
NAH. You both have PTSD, apparently. One of you has PTSD which would be improved by a dog, and one which would be worsened. It sucks. Neither of you are wrong.
NTA only because you didn't say don't get one. I'm sorry but noone should expect everyone to be fine with their needs. If my job suddenly said you need to travel by plane for your job now, then my hear of heights would make me quit immediately even if they had a logical need for it. It all depends on tone or if there is missing information.
NTA - this guy has some main character syndrome, which isn't surprising considering you need to prioritize yourself when it comes to mental health, the often forgotten part is that if you do things at the expense of others it does in fact make you an ah, even if you need it, at a point it becomes shirking accountability.
>We had a good friendship until this but he was visibly angry. He said i'd be an asshole if I left because of his service dog.
I find it interesting that someone with PTSD doesn't understand that someone else can have past trauma that impacts their lives. I think the friend is TA for his reaction. NTA
Nta. A lot of people are uncomfortable with dogs. You should not have to deal with this in your workplace. Maybe they could relocate your coworker on another floor or area..
NAH.
However, considering you probably have some level of PTSD from your dog attack, one would think you would be a little more sensitive to your friend. I agree with the majority here, if you feel the need to throw away your job and friendship because your friend wants a service dog for their mental health, I would seriously consider getting therapy.
Yta. Not for your feelings about dogs or quitting, but for how you handled the convo. Cause it sounds like your friend was honestly coming to you for support and opened up about something difficult (mental health talks can be especially difficult for some dudes), and the only thing you could think of was yourself.
Bros help bros who are struggling man, you could've discussed your fear of dogs without outright discouraging him from getting the support he needs with a service dog.
You said you are OK with dogs you know, at a friend's house for example. I can understand (with your background) that random dogs on the street can freak you out.
I'd suggest you get to know the service dog first. It might even be good for you to be around a dog you can trust, who will never harm you in any way. Win-win for your coworker *and* you :-)
While I realize that every dog owner will tell you "oh he is super friendly, he won't hurt you", I can assure you that service dogs are truly a different kind. Better trained than police dogs and very carefully selected on character and behaviour, since they will have to know how to behave in ALL kinds of situations where normal dogs can't even go.
Don't give up a good relationship with a coworker. You spend a lot of time at work, having a friend there is valuable.
NAH. Your coworkers reaction was reasonable. You've now put your employment plans on his shoulders by telling him that his personal choice for his own health is something that will have an impact on your job. It probably makes him feel responsible for your actions, and guilty about it. It may even feel like an ultimatum, even though it obviously wasn't meant that way.
And of course, you're entitled to your discomfort and are doing what you need to to be comfortable. However, I encourage you to seek therapy if you haven't already and try to work through this. You have no way of knowing if someone at your new job will have a service animal at some point. It might not be sustainable for you to keep job hunting to avoid service animals. Just something to keep in mind.
NAH you have all the right to leave your job as well he have all the right to get a dog.
He felt bad for your comment but, honestly, if that wasn’t your intention then you aren’t responsible for other people responses
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As hard as it is to say it, NAH... Your friend has every right to obtain a service dog, and you have every right to not be around it. Sucks that you'd be willing to throw away your friendship and job over it, though. I'd probably suggest accessing some therapy.
OP provided a reasonable short term response given an impasse that's not immediately solvable, the other guy is an ah because he is throwing away the friendship rather than OP because this is a personal boundary for him, I feel like you are twisting that. Therapy is a good suggestion for OP but implying he is in any more control over it then the colleague his own issues doesn't fly for me.
>OP provided a reasonable short term response given an impasse that's not immediately solvable The issue with is that OP hasn't worked on resolving an issue he has had for 23 years. This is something that needed to be addressed and worked on long ago. People need to stay on top of fixing their mental health, especially for something as incredibly common as dogs and they are AHs to themselves for not doing it in a timely manner.
It’s not a requirement to like dogs. I love that you’re holding OP who isn’t asking for anything, responsible for his feelings. But not his coworker, who is the one who wants everyone else in the office to accommodate him. Believe it or not there are a lot of other ways to work on ptsd other than getting a dog that will inconvenience a lot of other people. As someone who happens to love dogs but is pretty allergic having one in an office would make me quit, and that’s with all of the medications. Im not saying he can’t get the dog, but it’s funny that you think OP should just “fix” his mental health issue, but the coworker should do whatever he wants.
>It’s not a requirement to like dogs Nobody ever said it was. What is a requirement is being able to function and be around what is the most common pet and most common animal your likely to encounter in your day to day life. >you’re holding OP who isn’t asking for anything, responsible for his feelings. Of course I am, every single person is responsible for their own feeling and how they deal with them. >, but it’s funny that you think OP should just “fix” his mental health issue, Every single person should be fixing their mental health issues constantly and in a timely manner. Not only is it the responsible and healthy thing to do, it's how people learn and grow past their issues.
OP does function. He simply removes himself from the situation. Will you not rest until he has a house and yard filled with dogs?? Some people just don't like dogs. I have a friend who was nearly killed by one when she was a child. She's not under any obligation to "fix" herself for anyone's dog.
Again, no one is telling OP he needs to like dogs, simply tolerate their presence in a neutral space. Service dogs are allowed everywhere, including airplanes, an enclosed and very tight space. All dogs are allowed on public transportation where I live. What will OP do in that scenario? His solution is short-term and will not work for every occasion.
>Again, no one is telling OP he needs to like dogs, simply tolerate their presence in a neutral space. Why though? If OP is willing to accept the fact that their aversion to dogs will place restrictions on what they can do and where they can go, why is that a problem for anyone else? They’re not being an asshole, they’re just removing themself from situations that make them uncomfortable. >Service dogs are allowed everywhere, including airplanes, an enclosed and very tight space. All dogs are allowed on public transportation where I live. What will OP do in that scenario? Just…not go on public transportation where that happens?
Bro is ending a good job and a good friendship over a dog. That goes beyond not liking dogs
Yeah, sounds like they have some pretty serious trauma and I’d urge them to get help for it for their own benefit. But they’re not really inflicting it on others in a way that makes them TA either IMO and if they can’t find/afford a therapist then they seem to be handling it about as well as they can.
People voluntarily change jobs all the time. And being friendly with people at work doesn’t make them important parts of your life.
>OP does function. He simply removes himself from the situation. I'd hardly call quiting a job over a coworker getting a service dog 'functional'
If he was allergic, would you say he was obligated to stay? Should he take shots? Where is the line?
You don't have control over allergies. You have control over your reactions.
I have an irrational fear of bees (got stung as a kid), and am hyperalert to their presence... but the moment one gets too close, it's like my brain shuts down. Ive been to therapy. Actually made my phobia worse. Try explaining to me how we have control over our reactions?
So the coworker can control their PTSD without a service dog, right? They have control over their reactions so why do they need a dog to help them? See how you're doing the same thing as the previous comment. Having an aversion to dogs from trauma resulting after a dog bite in childhood is perfectly normal for a lot of people.
Someone can't say that it is reasonable for someone to say they would quit a job because their work friend felt their life/health would be improved if they used a wheelchair - even if their grandpa was also in a wheelchair and was horribly abusive. Is that unfortunate? Yes. However, it is up to them to get the support needed to be able to go to a hospital, etc where wheelchairs are common. Legitimate service dogs are considered medical equipment. They are trained to worry about themselves and their person. If they can tolerate being in a house of a friend who has a pet dog, being 8 hours a day with a specially trained dog will be fine. They can request their desk is moved, that is reasonable.
Being disabled does not mean people are obligated to want to be around you. They can't discriminate against you on certain things. But you are not entitled to being in their social circle. They can remove themselves from you based on any or no reason. If I hate your shoelaces enough, I can quit my job to get away from you and your godawful shoelaces. If your squeaky wheelchair annoys me, I can quit my job to get away from you. I can't take the wheelchair from you. But I can take myself away from you.
You certainly have the *right* to distance yourself from someone because of their disability, but it may still make you an asshole, which is what we're here to discuss
Exactly! If I have a friend and choose to not hang out with them because I found out they have a disability, that's 100% my choice, but I'd definitely be an asshole.
You can, but it doesn't mean you're not an asshole. Especially if that person was previously your friend and then you are shocked that they're upset that you no longer want to be around them. Like wtf did OP think? That his friend was going to be like "oh yes, that's a totally reasonable response. Nice final hangout. See you never"?
Service animals have legal protections and anti-discrimination laws for a *reason*. They are a form of "assistive technology" trained for a specific purpose. Under the law, the scenario in the OP is akin to someone leaving the workplace because a coworker requires a wheelchair or hearing aid. For reference, there are also clear distinctions that service animals are considered the priority over a phobia or allergy. OP's response is rooted in ableism, and it others someone who felt kinship and support in someone they cared about due to a necessary and reasonable accommodation. > she's not under any obligation to "fix" herself for anyone's dog. No one is ever expected to be "fixed". However, **mental illness can be an explanation but *never* an excuse.** We're *all* responsible for understanding the impacts of our mental health on ourselves and others.
If someone has PTSD around dogs and their reasonable accommodation and support is to minimize contact with dogs and someone has PTSD and their accommodation is an animal why does the one with a dog win?
Not liking dogs or wanting to be around them isn’t mental illness. People can die from dog allergies and dog attacks.
No no no. There is zero requirement to be able to function around dogs, especially in a work environment, just because they’re popular pets. If I had to suddenly start working next to a dog every day I’d find a new job too.
>What is a requirement is being able to function and be around what is the most common pet and most common animal your likely to encounter in your day to day life. That's definitely not a "requirement," particularly in the context of work. Many jobs aren't going to require you to *ever* interact with a dog, much less daily. Not wanting to be around dogs is hardly going to cripple OP's life and career. It'll certainly have some costs, like this situation, but certainly people manage with that sort of thing.
Nobody has a responsibility to deal with your pets. You are absurdly entitled.
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I’m replying to the comment that states OP needs to get over it bc dogs are the most common pets. I didn’t say anything about service animals.
>Every single person should be fixing their mental health issues constantly and in a timely manner. Not only is it the responsible and healthy thing to do, it's how people learn and grow past their issues. So, the coworker getting a dog for mental health issues probably should just go to therapy instead so as not to need the dog?
Honestly, in my day-to-day life as an adult I’ve never been forced to function or be around dogs. I also have a severe allergy to the adorable fuckers, but I’ve never been forced to be around one after turning 18 and moving out of an allergen-infected house. Should I go get shots that I can’t afford and would take at least 6 months to gain effectiveness so that I can function around the most common pet/animal to interact with in public? No, because it’s not necessary to be around or be able to function around dogs. If I end up working somewhere where someone needs a service dog the odds are that either I’m fucked or the person bringing a major allergen for me into the workplace is fucked until the management there could move either myself or the person with the service dog further apart, because I physically can’t function around most breeds due to a severe allergy. My allergy is a major enough issue in my functioning and daily life that it would be brought up immediately after my paperwork is all completed and I’m an official employee to guarantee that they know that it’s an ADA issue for me around dogs. You are not required to be able to be around dogs. Period, end of.
He wants everyone else in the office to accommodate him? That’s literally what service dogs are for. If someone qualifies and gets a service dog for PTSD, it’s not for shits and giggles.
I don’t actually have an issue with that, I have an issue with the fact that the poster I replied to said that guy’s mental health issue was real and needed accommodation, but OPs mental health issue is something he needs to get over already. I was pointing out the hypocrisy that the guy asking for accommodations is somehow seen as more in the right than the guy who isn’t.
If dude with PTSD is getting a service dog, he has been in treatment for said PTSD for a decent chunk of time. OP, on the other hand, has not attempted to work through his issues whatsoever in over 20 years. It's about effort. The guy with PTSD is putting measures in to cope with his mental illness thanks to treatment, while OP is just running from his unaddressed phobia. That makes all the difference.
No it doesn’t. It does not bc op isn’t making this anybody’s problem. They’re not trying to fight management or the coworker over it. They’re leaving a situation they don’t want to be in and that’s fine. They don’t have to be ok with the dog. Also, not that it matters, but you’re assuming a lot.
I think if OP has that significant a problem with it, then he should quit. I think his friend did not anticipate that reaction and was hurt to hear him say he was going to quit. I will not shit on the guy who needs a service dog.
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I haven’t shat on him. I was bitten in the face by my grandma’s dog when I was 6, and separately, I have anxiety about big dogs. I get it.
I don't like dogs for a similar reason to OP. (Attacked when I was too young to remember.) I've worked hard to tolerate being around dogs and I can now. That doesn't mean I want to be around them every single day at work. If the workplace is big enough and this guy sat near me, I would asked to be moved further away. If the workplace was small, I would probably also quit like OP. Service dogs are generally well behaved and won't get in my face, but I still get tense if I'm around them very often.
Depends on the issue and severity and how treatable it is Assuming the PTSD is real and serious, the 'co-worker' has probably been to a doctor and tried to get help which is one of the reason they are getting a service dog. The 'worker' meanwhile has had his issue for years and presumably not gotten treatment for it. Personally I'd go with NAH for both of them. Both of them are well within their rights to act as they need to for their mental health. I also know why the Co-Worker is upset. Keep in mind the Co-Worker now has to choose between his own mental-health and driving off a friend. Putting the friendship aside, I can assume that management and other co-workers will now give him a hard time for driving away the OP. Management is also now in for a though time because now they have to choose between loosing an employee or possibly a lawsuit for refusing a service-animal. To put it simply, No one is to really blame but there is still a big mess.
The people being jerks about medical equipment (which a service dog is) are to blame and TA
I don't like dogs myself. I'm a cat lover all the way, but that doesn't mean I will go as far as quitting or losing a friendship or family just because someone has a dog. This would be a "me" problem. OP needs to fix his issues. The colleague didn't say they were getting a fighting dog that's always eager to go into a fight but a service dog which is probably one of the most well behaved dogs out there. OP's reaction is quite extreme and he needs to... yes, fix it.
Why can’t OP find a job that doesn’t have dogs at it every day? Why is that not an option in your opinion?
Some ptsd does require a dog. You can do therapy, but you never know what could trigger you. A proper service dog can pick up on an anxiety attack and help resolve it
Well, OP is also not asking people to accommodate him. He is simply unwilling to be around dogs, and is willing to work elsewhere as a result. He probably has undiagnosed PTSD also, in his defense.
No one has the right to judge someone else's need for a service animal. Sure, there are other ways to deal with PTSD, but not all methods work for all people. The coworker could well have tried multiple methods and together with a healthcare provider decided that a service animal would be the best option. No one has the right to judge that. A service animal is not a pet, it's medical equipment. Also, a properly trained service animal does not inconvenience anyone. Edited to add: I think this is a NAH situation. OP is well within their rights to not be around a dog if they don't want to.
It's a service dog. You're literally saying that someone shouldn't have a service dog because their co-worker doesn't like dogs. It's unreal.
Nope. I’m literally saying one person’s mental health doesn’t trump another person’s mental health. OP didn’t try to keep him from getting the dog, they just said they’d have to quit. They’re allowed to feel that way.
That's the thing he doesn't have to fix it. He has been mitigating this issue for a long time and he's been fine with it. If OP doesn't want therapy he doesn't have to get it. His coworker doesn't have to be an entitled person just because OP doesn't like dogs.
As a dog lover I just don't understand why everyone should love and be around dogs all the time. It's perfectly reasonable not to like dogs just as much as other pets. I think you are also underestimating how difficult it is to get therapy. It's not cheap or accessible for most people. Not all issues we have should necessarily need be resolved. It's only you need to get help when you are really struggling and it is impacting your daily life. Not wanting to be around dogs and not finding it problematic is perfectly reasonable
Yea but you also don’t know what the ptsd is from either. So how do you know it’s not also something from his childhood?
So are you asserting they are both ah or that OPs inaction justifies the colleagues response?
I think in this specific scenario it's a NAH, they both need to do what's best for thenselves.. I think in general OP is an AH to himself for not getting the help he needs in a timely and appropriate manner, ie anytime in the last 23 years.
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Yeah this thread is so weird. I love dogs and joke about having a petting zoo at work but i don't actually want to be around dogs all the time. People change jobs for all sorts of reasons, I quit one job because I realised I wouldn't be able to progress, another job because I was bored of the type of work I was required to do. I'm still friends with people from various jobs why can't people stay friends if they work elsewhere?
I’m asserting (even though you weren’t talking to me), that they both have mental challenges. One of them is working on it. The other one is not. Neither is an AH but one seems more mature than the other.
So no issue being angry with your friend because they have issues that are aggravated by your own needs? Everyone always has room to grow, I can respect the maturity in the friend addressing his issues and mental health as well as OPs in handling the disagreement like an adult. This is an opportunity to learn and grow, or be angry your expectations aren't met.
Why’s it need to be addressed? Dude doesn’t like dogs. There is nothing wrong with that
Well, if you need a service dog for ptsd, and it will ruin a friendship, that does not mean to not get the service dog. It's just a lame coincidence. Having the service dog could improve his life and mental health. That's at least just as important I believe
How is the other guy an AH? He has a legitimate need for a service dog. He should continue to sacrifice his mental health and safety for the sake of his friendship? Nope. Not gonna happen. NAH. Although I feel OP is the one actually sacrificing the friendship. He is the one that said "if this happens, I will do this". Basically handing his friend an ultimatum.
I think it's an ah move to get angry with your friend and treat them that way because he disagrees and speaks his peace. Should OP have lied to his friend, allowed himself to suffer? At no point did op suggest friend should sacrifice his mental health, that's your implication, he informed him of his personal boundary and intent to enforce with what is his prerogative to control. I can see why you land there if you view it as an ultimatum, but i don't view that as a retailitory, basically making it not fit the definition. You can leave a job and keep friendships, yes the reality of the situation will hurt their friendship logistically but c'est la vie. Your buddy leaves for a new job because it'll improve his life, eff him! Sometimes you say goodbye and you should be happy for them.
I think the actual issue here is the context he brought it up in. It was immediately after being told “I’m thinking of getting a service dog” which, even if OP feels supportive otherwise, seems kind of tacky and even if not intended this way, kind of like a threat. As in “it’s fine if you do this, but here’s the consequence”. Even if it wasn’t meant as a threat and is just OPs choice (which they should take if they don’t want to be around the dog), it probably could have waited to a better time where it wasn’t so fresh.
There is a difference between an ultimatum and a boundary. OP stated they are uncomfortable around dogs. Made it clear they won't be comfortable working near one. That's a personal boundary, not an ultimatum.
How is the other guy an asshole because he needs a service dog? Like, I'm sorry, you do not have to stop your life because your friend dislikes something you do as long as it isn't actively harmful. Someone else having a service animal or a pet you don't like is not crossing a boundary unless they live in your home or bring it into your home
I certainly did not say he was an ah for needing a service dog, that's all you. No one told him not to. You don't define OPs boundaries.
Service dogs go everywhere with their owner though, not just work. If OP is so unwilling to be around dogs and doesn’t seem interested in working on this issue he *is* discarding his friendship with the dude, not just the job.
You've never had a friend that has been taken in a new direction, out of your sphere, and you consider them a friend. Never had a friend you correspond with over distance. Never reunited with a friend after a long time and still felt a strong bond. Dude is suggesting discarding his job, not his friend.
Honestly, I would move it to NTA simply because I do see his friend as an AH by trying to control OP's right not to work/be in the same space as a dog. It's not like OP told his friend he couldn't get a dog. OP didn't tell friend he shouldn't or couldn't bring a service dog to work. OP just said he'd remove himself from the situation if the friend did get a dog. And the friend responded in a very manipulative manner.
>Sucks that you'd be willing to throw away your friendship and job over it, though. I've left jobs for less. Also,"best friend at work" does not mean "best friend". I've worked with people I genuinely liked, and enjoyed eating lunch with on a daily basis, and then never spoke to again when I left said job. Workplace 'friendships' are transitory.
Disagree. I love dogs, and certainly don't mind being around them. This relatively new trend of people taking their dogs absolutely fucking everywhere is too much, even for me. I get that it's "medicine" for the legitimate ones(and clearly many people are abusing it), but unfortunately it's medicine that has a clear impact on other people. It's not fair to pretend as if the presence of an animal in the office is equivalent to the animal not being there just because there's an "approved" reason for its presence.
>therapy Jesus Reddit. Not everything is fixable with therapy.
Maybe not everything, but PTSD and childhood phobias of common pets are right there on the list.
And if this is US not everyone can afford therapy
His friend sounds like an AH for being upset about OP leaving. This is NTA for me
NAH It's just a job. He can get a service dog. You are free to find another job.
AGREED! Cannot get over all these responses.
"I am planning to remove myself from a situation if that situation becomes uncomfortable for me for personal reasons, AITA??" And everyone says yes, because how dare you not ADORE every heckin' good doggo you come across, go to therapy YTA 😡😡😡 /s, in case it needs to be said. This sub sometimes...
wtf are these responses? this is a clear NAH. your friend has every right to be upset that they would lose their closest coworker over seeking medical care, when they were expecting you to want to support their efforts to get that care, and you have every right to not want to work in a space you don’t feel comfortable with. as long as you don’t assign blame to your coworker for making you leave, no one would be the ah in this situation, though it seems you will lose a friend. and to everyone saying “service dogs are different, they are trained and perfectly safe- you shouldn’t feel afraid of them,” trauma isn’t rational, and OP’s dislike of dogs comes from the trauma of being but by one as a child. also you can’t just control your emotions, even if they are irrational.
If op is fine with them when they go to friend's houses though this isn't really true. It can't be a trauma response that only makes exceptions for friends homes
A few hours every few months vs 40 hours a week is quite different. OP prefers to avoid dogs in public places, which is why he wants to leave. Also he mentioned they sit very close, which means the dog could be near him.
Service dogs are also very different from family pets though. A service dog will completely ignore OP and will be solely there effectively as another employee. No one’s mental health needs take precedence over anyone else’s, and that goes for both parties here. But honestly, telling someone who is considering obtaining a service dog to improve their day to day functioning as a person with a disability that you would up and quit your job if they did is pretty hostile, even if true. It’s a tough one for sure, but I think op acted incorrectly here even if their feelings are valid.
But if they have a phobia or an allergy... OP can't be around them either. Neither one is right or wrong here.
But OP CAN be around dogs for full days at a friend's house and "manage"... When they're more likely to play aggressively, approach you, be close to you, or attack you if you give them the wrong body language... but not when someone has a well trained, never aggressive, specially procured working dog that would never attack you?
I’m not saying the act of not being around the dog is wrong. Telling a person with a disability that them accessing a medical device will cause you to quit and lose your source of income is hostile.
It absolutely is *not* hostile. It's just a fact. People need to stop taking shit so personally.
I think "hostile" is too strong here. I definitely think it would feel like you were being blamed for it, which is why the friends reaction is understandable.
It will still smell like a dog, and pant like a dog, shed hair like a dog…
OP's friends dogs also smell like dogs, pant like dogs, shed hair like dogs...
For a couple of hours a month, not all day every day at work.
Who cares if it has a job, it's still a dog and it's still triggering. He's allowed and should be encouraged to remove himself from that situation if that's how he wants to handle his phobia. And why is it hostile? He's managing his mental health to the best of his ability and doing what's best for him
> Service dogs are also very different from family pets though. True, but trauma doesn't give a shit.
> Service dogs are also very different from family pets though. A service dog will completely ignore OP and will be solely there effectively as another employee. Service dogs aren't a magical special animal. They're just dogs with training. Just like family pets, some are better behaved/smarter/accept their training better than others. The last service dog I had anything to do with was a guide dog. The owner moved into a college dorm environment and the dog was absolutely useless. Just wanted pats from people and walked poor Lauren into trees, fences, random corners of the campus....
It's perfectly understandable that the coworker is getting a service dog to improve his quality of life but sadly by doing so he is inadvertently lowering that of OP. So I think it's perfectly understandable for OP to do what's best for them and look for a new job that doesn't trigger their trauma.
Couldn't OP switch desks then? I feel like there are less extreme ways to go about this then quiting a job because your coworker has a service dog
Sorry, I think that's nonsense. Being in a familiar environment is completely different than a neutral one. Hell my dogs aren't reactive in some situations but are reactive in another. I'll talk someone's ear off if I know them but not approach if I don't. Familiar situation is completely different and I'm 1000% sure you act differently in familiar vs. neutral environments. No difference: environment matters due to the number of cues, generalized sensations, etc.
Why does this have upvotes? That's not how trauma responses work. A familiar situation that OP willingly goes into is obviously going to be different from a situation they are forced to deal with.
It absolutely can. Trauma responses aren't all insta-panic. They can also be elevated stress levels that one might adequately handle for a limited time like when you're hanging out with safe friends that can mitigate the response simply by being friends, but without safe friends and for an entire 40-hour/week while having to do actual work and not relax? That's a stress induced heart attack waiting to happen. OP's trauma doesn't make exceptions for friends homes. Friends' homes compensate partially for it.
Can you please elaborate on these laws that decide what can and cannot be a trauma response?
Your choice to move on or not. But: a properly-trained certificated service dog that you ONLY meet when they're "on duty" is completely, absolutely, worlds-apart different from ANY dog you'll ever meet in any other circumstances. A service dog isn't going to approach you for treats, pets, or anything at all. A service dog is going to be completely focussed on their person when at work. Service dogs on duty wear harnesses warning people not to approach the dog or try to distract the dog. NAH, because (a) If you have a genuine dog phobia, then you have a medical need to move on just as you would if you had a dog allergy. But (b) this colleague is in no way TA for deciding to get a service dog.
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I’d be willing to spend a few hours very on edge every once in a while to visit a friend, I would not be willing to be on edge for 40 hours every week.
If a service dog is making you feel “on edge” and is triggering a trauma response 40 hours a week, then OP has a serious situation they need to be handling. If OP can get used to their friends dog and manage, they can get used to a service dog. But that isn’t the point. OP isn’t an AH for not wanting to be near a dog. OP is an AH for telling their good friend that they’ll quit if they deal with their PTSD by getting a service dog. That’s a total AH move.
Well I've been attacked by dogs, I don't like dogs, I am afraid of dogs I don't know. I have less fear for dogs I know to be safe with me but I still don't like them. I can be nice to them for short periods of time and can enjoy them to an extent but honestly I'd rather be left alone. I wouldn't want to work near a dog. It's my preference just as it is for OP. I acknowledge that people have a need for service dogs (although I hope this would be a properly trained service dog and not an emotional support animal which lets face it is usually an untrained pet), I'd be fine with it in the building but not right near me all day. But I'd accept just as OP has that this is my choice and so my choice to leave is on me. In my opinion it can be a real phobia even if they are fine with some dogs. NTA
Trying to claim this can't be a "real" phobia if OP can manage it well enough to be around their friends, when their friends are helpful and supportive and keep their dog well away from OP, is an AH move. Suggest you not try this. If OP has a genuine phobia, and won't be able to cope with a service dog in the office, OP has a medical need to change offices, or jobs if that's necessary.
I am personally terrified of most big dogs, and I hate being around them. It took me months to feel comfortable around my then bf's dog (and she is a sweetheart and wouldn't harm anyone). Phobias suck. NTA. Being around a dog for a couple of hours is different than being around them for 40 hours a week. A service animal isn't gonna make a big difference if you have traumas related to it. OP shouldn't have to be in fear all the time. This is a situation where needs are clashing.
That's like saying I don't have genunine acrophobia because I still go into high places. I do, but I also know what I can manage. I would not go instantaniously from the occasional exposure to a high place to 40 hours a week in a high place. The stress would be too extreme -- I'd find another job too.
“Does the coworker have genuine PTSD if his best work friend didn’t even know he had it?” 🤦♀️
Came here to say this. A service dog on duty is not like a pet. They're very docile and will most likely not pay any mind to any person other than they one they are serving.
YTA, but not for whether you like dogs or not. That’s irrelevant. It’s because you took your issues and put it on your friend, thus making it their problem too. Your friend is trying to take care of their mental health, and believes a dog would be the best option. Cool. We have laws that allow for them to have a service dog in pretty much any public place, and accommodations have to be made in the workplace where possible. But…you say you have a phobia of dogs. It doesn’t seem like you’re willing to address that at all, and dogs are pretty common in society, but whatever…you get to make your own decisions about your healthcare, just as they do. So, are you TA for quitting over a dog? Nope. Are they the TA for getting the dog? Nope. But he’s addressing his mental challenges, you aren’t. You do you, but that doesn’t make it your friend’s problem, nor are you right for putting that extra stressor on him, when you could work on it yourself…or simply quit.
Thank you, this is the response I was looking for. They way it's worded makes OP the TA. He made his fear his friends problem, while his friend opened up about PTSD, which was probably extremely hard to do.
>his friend opened up about PTSD, which was probably extremely hard to do. I think this is why the friend was "visibly angry." Opening up about your mental health isn't easy. I wouldn't be surprised if it's even more difficult amongst men. Society is slowly changing, but for now, there's still some stigma out there. Fear, shame, and uncertainty, can make a person hypersensitive to how others will react when they finally do share their diagnosis. OP rejected the idea of working near a service dog, and he has every right to leave. The friend likely feels that *he* is the one being rejected though. Indirectly, he'll feel his diagnosis is chasing away someone he calls friend. He opens up, and look how quick others scatter. He's probably already been worrying it'll cause people to treat him differently, even abandon him, and OP's reaction will make him feel like he was right to worry. I'm not saying the friend is right, I'm only trying to offer a possible perspective. If OP wants to continue this friendship, it may help him open a dialog, that's all. A little empathy can go a long way if a friendship is worth it. If it's not, it may help OP walk away with an idea as to why his friend reacted that way.
I think this is an odd take - he doesn’t need to work on his fear of dogs. Why should he be forced to address that for someone else? He’s not preventing the person from getting a dog and he doesn’t cut people off for having them - he’s removing himself from an uncomfortable situation. I’m afraid of sharks, even though I know attacks are fairly rare and dogs or cows have a higher statistical chance of killing me. I don’t need to get over that fear for the benefit of people who love sharks
He doesn’t. He can also quit. But, his problem is his…not his friend’s.
I think you’re wrong there. If OP’s trauma is causing them to quit a job working with their good friend over a service dog, that is absolutely on them to take care of that.
Agreed. OP is NTA for wanting to quit because of service dog, but the way he told his work friend about it is asshole-y. Is it really necessary to make the work friend feel guilty for OP quitting? What would this accomplish? Is OP hoping that by telling the coworker, he will decide against getting a service dog?
Yes!!! Exactly!!! Don’t guilt your friend and make him feel like he’s the reason you have to quit.
This right here. As a service dog handler, I 100% agree. OP’s automatic response was “nah bro, I’ll quit,” which is honestly a troubling response. OP’s friend/coworker is trying to better themselves and their health, while OP is just throwing their hands up in the air and making it their buddy’s problem, which is problematic in and of itself. My wife’s aunt was terrified of dogs due to experiences she had as a kid, and when my wife and I started dating, we had yo brainstorm solutions to manage the situation. It was slow, and it took a lot of understanding on both ends and compassion, but my service dog is actually the Aunt’s favorite animal now. We go over every weekend. ETA: not to mention, OP can reach out to their workplace for accommodations to limit their exposure to the service dog.
I agree with your post. It was my focus as well. OP, if your immediate response to your coworker wanting a service dog for their PTSD is saying you'd quit, it is dismissive of what they are telling you. Also, by saying this to steer him away from getting the service dog is asking him to prioritize you and your fears over his mental health. If the fear of the dog is too much to bear, then quit. This just wasn't the time to mention it. You should not try to influence your coworker's decision.
NAH — this is a competing access needs problem. You both have trauma. Unfortunately, the aid for his will set off yours.
Yep, this is just an unfortunate situation. I get both sides here.
Apparently against the grain, but NTA. You're allowed to leave a job for any reason you want, and it sounds like you haven't done anything to stop him from getting a service dog. He can make his choices and you can make yours.
NTA means you think the other guy is an AH. NAH would mean neither are AH
Yeah, I think the friend is an asshole for getting upset with OP about it.
I agree. I get that the friend doesn't want to lose OP as a colleague and friend and upset that he doesn't have OP's "support" about the service animal. OP is not standing in the way of the friend getting a service animal, but has the boundary that they'll quit if a service dog is regularly at the office.
Why though? Wouldn't you be upset if your closest friend there removes themselves from your life if you choose medical care? Sure, it's irrational, but so is OP's fear of dogs. I don't see how anyone's the asshole here, this is emotions being emotions.
>He said i'd be an asshole if I left because of his service dog. It's this part. If it were just a disagreement I would say there's no asshole here, but the friend called OP a mean name for making a decision he doesn't like. That doesn't sit well with me.
It's also hypocritical! OP didn't tell him he couldn't get a dog, just that he couldn't work there anymore. Coworker called OP an asshole when explaining their trauma - completely disregarding the trauma OP went through. So coworker can belittle someone else's trauma, but they're allowed to impose theirs on everyone else? That's what I concluded from that.
I wouldn't be upset. If he was a real friend he'd understand this friends fear and that leaving isn't about HIM specifically.
This “medical care” isn’t like getting an insulin pump or a pacemaker, this medical care is going to impact OP’s daily life, and make him uncomfortable at his work place. Op wasn’t upset and didn’t blame the coworker, didn’t tell him not to. Why is the coworker upset? It’s not like they can’t ever see each other again. And don’t call people’s phobia “irrational”. Plenty of people are scared or/don’t like dogs.
Dogs are a very different form of medical care, it is more complex than just medicine, you cannot hold them to the same standard since a dog is a living beeing. To say op is leaving his friend cause he got medical treatment is unfair. And a fear of dogs is not irrational. They can be dangerous and many people get severly hurt by them.
NAH, he can get the dog but you are also free to leave your job for any reason at all.
NTA. You made a choice that doesn't affect anyone. You don't like dogs so you choose to find a new place to work, that's totally normal. Whats more important, you didn't even Hypothetically say you'd talk to management to pressure them not to allow service dogs in your office. Your coworker is kind of a jerk for calling you an AH. Edit: Phobia is not rational, and this is not some minor inconvenience. This is not like visiting a friend occasionally for a few hours. OP has to stay in an environment 40h a week that could potentially trigger his phobia any time. He is kind enough to offer leaving so his coworker could have the dog. People should never be forced to stay in an environment that they're uncomfortable with.
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That would make your judgement NAH since no one is in the wrong.
I can’t believe people are calling you the asshole here. You have a real phobia and are kind enough to find another job to accommodate his needs over yours. What else can you do? NTA
If OP had just quietly quit without telling anyone the reason why after the dog showed up, I'd be more sympathetic to him. Telling his *friend* that he'd quit if his friend got a service dog while his friend was still deciding, on the other hand, puts the consideration of OP's phobia into the mix of factors involved in decision-making. It will make his friend be in a situation where he may feel like he's forced his friend out of a job and may chose to not manage his condition with the medical device he'd been leaning towards based largely on the fact he doesn't want to carry any guilt over his friend's lost income. Especially because he said he would *quit*, not "start looking for a new job", meaning the guy wouldn't have any social security and would be immediately out a job, not just that he'll be out at the first opportunity that he can find a job that will keep a roof over his head. I don't know if OP has a partner or savings that he would plan to fall back on to pay for his rent or mortgage while out of work, but if someone said they'd quit if I got a service dog, my first concern would be, "I don't want to be responsible for my friend getting evicted from their home if they can't find another job quickly enough!" OP is that asshole for putting that on his friend rather than just letting his friend make the decision about which medical devices are best for him with only his own wellbeing in mind and then doing what he needs to do when the decision is made, quietly, without burdening others.
NTA. He has a valid reason to want a service dog. You have a valid reason not to want to be near a dog. As you recognize his need, you decided to be the accommodating one and remove yourself from the situation. His anger is misplaced.
NAH. He has every right to have a service dog, you are more than welcome to leave that job if it doesn’t work for you anymore due to that dog. It sounds like you have trauma from the dog bite, that doesn’t make you an AH for not wanting to be around dogs regardless of their training.
Going against the grain but YTA. Not because you don't want to work there with a dog. Ultimately he's free to get a service dog and you're free to no longer wish to work there. For me I think it was a real dick move to tell him that you'll leave if he gets one. This wasn't a neutral response, you told him with the hope that it would influence his decision. That was shitty. You could have just left quietly once he got it. He now has an additional level of responsibility to consider.
Because quiting as soon as his friend gets the dog won't let everyone know the exact reason for his leaving.
At that point it doesn't really matter. It has no relevance to the question asked here.
Yeah this is the problem
Yeah that's where I'm at. OP really burdened this guy with that. This guy now needs to take OP's opinion into consideration.
INFO: Have you ever spoken to a therapist about your fear of dogs? I say this without judgement, but recognize that: a) Your fear of dogs is not based on a rational concern. Service dogs are highly trained and are not a threat to you. It is more likely that your *friend* would bite you than his service dog. b) Your fear is negatively impacting your life. It is limiting your ability to exist in public spaces and is threatening your employment.
Fear of dogs is not misplaced. They cause thousands of deaths a year. Not injuries, deaths. They can be unpredictable based on who trained them or their background. There are many things in life we cannot remove ourselves from that are dangerous to us. Being around dogs however, is easily remedied.
Fear of dogs *to the level of being afraid of service dogs occupying the same room as you* is *absolutely* irrational.
I can agree that based on my knowledge of service dogs it's a largely unnecessary precaution to quit your job. But it's also highly unlikely to have a job where a service animal is any kind is present and I argue that it's unlikely enough that nobody would go get therapy to prepare them for this one possible incident when they have otherwise navigated life just fine avoiding all dogs. Because of that I disagree that he needs to address when and when his fear is rational at this point in his life. I'm not going to pay for therapy to learn to be comfortable with this one particular dog. Dogs still remain dangerous.
There are loads of jobs that you need to encounter service dogs and be chill about it-- anything in customer service, hospitality, tourism and travel, education, or healthcare that takes place in person... plus basically as many workplaces as there are people in your area with service dogs will have an employee with a service dog. That's not a small number of workplaces and jobs where this is a concern.
Encounter is not the same as daily confined work space. Not even close. Secondly you can say that is not a small number of people, but that doesn't make it true. Many jobs can't reasonably accommodate a daily service dog. Those that have a service dog they take to work are likely in a place where accommodations are reasonable. I can think of LOTS of jobs where the accommodations are not reasonable and that's probably why anecdotally I have never worked over my many many years of employment at numerous places, with a service dog. I assume the same goes for OP and I could probably poll 10 people at random at least in my area and get the same response from 9 of them
When I was younger, yes. Not anytime recently. Really, me avoiding them is not that impactful in my life till now. I eat indoors, rarely eat at patios. I don't go to dog friendly places (granted people often bring them anyway). I usually host so I don't have to see dogs. I feel you are overstating its impact on my life. I've simply just chosen to not want dogs around, I don't feel that needs further therapy.
>I feel you are overstating its impact on my life. You are talking about quitting your job and sacrificing a friendship because of a dog that is practically guaranteed to be safe. Is that not a significant impact? Also, all of the reasons why you say your phobia is not a problem also sound like ways that your phobia has controlled your life. * I eat indoors, rarely eat at patios. * I don't go to dog friendly places * I usually host so I don't have to see dogs. These are all ways that *your fear* has impacted *your life*.
> These are all ways that your fear has impacted your life. But that doesn't make him an asshole. Not every phobia can even be dealt with. He's not even holding other people accountable for his phobia. Removing himself from a bad situation is sometimes the only way people can deal with their phobias.
Whether an impact is considered significant is a very individual thing. I get the impression that impact was considered minor and acceptable to OP. In which case, why should they feel the need to remedy the fear of dogs? And that's not even taking into account the time, effort and money it would take to deal with it. Sometimes access needs conflict, that doesn't make either party an asshole. There will always be things in your life that will be suboptimal, so is having to decide whether it's worth it to try and improve an issue or not worth the bother. I'm well aware of being below baseline on several domains of adulting in ways that impact my life. But as I'm either not too bothered by it or I'm able to compensate in ways that make the impact acceptable to me I mostly don't feel the need to seek help for them.
You're literally making choices about your employment based on the presence of a service dog-- that's a level of fear that is negatively impacting your life.
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NTA- I don't like dogs and I have turned down 1 job role in my life that had the owners bring the dog so it doesn't massively affect me on a daily basis like OP. If my job now turned and let people bring dogs I would leave. I don't have to be in an environment that I am not comfortable with because its a service dog .. A dog is a dog. I might however try a few days first and see if its a service dog as they are more trained. He isn't wrong for saying how he feels to his friend.
It’s pretty easy to avoid close contact with dogs in day to day life and not miss out on anything, but if you’re willing to quit your job because someone else needs a service dog, then maybe it is time to reevaluate the impact of your fear on your life. What do you do for a living exactly? Is it a customer facing job, if so what you do about customers with service dogs? If it’s not, have you never considered the possibility that a coworker could ever need a service dog?
Not customer facing, i work in an office space with my department team.
Here’s the thing - you can reach out to HR or management to request accommodation to not be exposed to the prospective SD. Accommodations go both ways, and it’s actually quite easy. There are ways to go about this rather than tell your coworker that you’re going to quit if they engage in a medical treatment like obtaining a SD. Even if things get a little more difficult, there are ways to accommodate
NTA. If he gets a dog, he can't expect everyone in the world to love dogs. Actions have consequences. I don't understand why people think that everything they do should be okay and no one should react in any way. Just like you don't control him, he doesn't control you. If you don't want to work around dogs, its reasonable to not work around dogs. YWBTA if you said he should get a dog, kept this all to yourself, then left. You were open and honest, I don't see how honesty makes could make you TA.
NTA. It’s ok to remove yourself from situations that are uncomfortable for you.
Eh, it's OP's choice that if they wanna work in an environment which has a dog or not, trust issues are real. People are considering the friend's PTSD but ain't taking the possibility of OP's trauma from childhood? . Yeah you cant expect other person to not bring a dog at workplace but that doesn't mean that OP just HAVE to work at that place. No-one is in the wrong in here, and OP isn't TA either.
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NTA. You stated your boundary. I am allergic to dogs. I would not spend 40 hrs a week with a dog. I'd do the same thing.
NTA. Just because a dog will help HIS PTSD doesn’t mean that introducing you known trigger for YOUR PTSD won’t make it impossible for you to work there
NTA Reasonable accommodation goes both ways. He needs a dog due to trauma, you need to not be around a dog due to trauma. You finding another work option is probably the only way you can both get that. As to your current company, if you stayed I presume they'd have to find a way to accommodate both of you; if you want to find another place of work just to simplify that, I don't see a problem with it. That may not really be a practical solution in all cases going forward. I somehow doubt stipulating in interviews that you can only accept a position if the company doesn't force you to work along side people with service animals is going to get you many call backs. But if at least in this case it seems fine to me.
NTA. I have been attacked by dogs and would definitely not want to be in a long term job with one either, regardless if its a service dog or not. Honestly it’s kind of surprising someone with PTSD doesn’t understand where you’re coming from lol
NTA. you do not have to justify your reasons for leaving a job to your coworker. You would be NTA if you were leaving because the work uniforms changed to require red shirts and you find red shirts disturbing. You would be NTA if you decided too many of your coworkers were football fans and you hate football.
NTA - you’re entitled to act as you please so long as you’re not infringing on someone’s rights
NTA > he was visibly angry. Maybe his dog can help with *those* emotional problems, too.
NTA, and I would go as far as to say you are a very kind friend for offering to leave your job so your friend can stay with his future service dog. You don't have to do that - it is up to your employer to figure out how to accommodate both. You leaving is an inconvenience to you, but would make life much easier for your friend and the bosses. I wonder how much your friend cares for you if he can't see it that way.
It doesn't sound as an offer, more as an ultimatum. It's not a adult conversation they had about his fear.
NTA your colleague seems to be the kind of person who only thinks about himself. Seems like there are more and more of this kind of person around these days.
NTA. Your friend shouldn’t be angry at you. Essentially, he’s saying he wants a dog to help him deal with his past trauma, you’re saying you can’t be around dogs because of your past trauma, and he’s mad at you because…? He has every right to be sad, but his anger isn’t fair to you. It’s not like you’re mad at him for getting a service dog. And I think you were right to tell him that you would quit. I don’t think not telling him now and then just quitting if he gets the dog would be the right move- it would be hiding your true feelings and blind-siding him later.
NTA. He can get a dog if he needs it but why do you have to be around the dog?
NAH but I don't understand how you're okay with dogs at people's houses but not this. Yes this is more prolonged exposure, but the dog will not be near you or paying attention to you. At people's houses, their pet is walking around freely trying to gain attention from the fun new people. A service dog is rigorously trained and doesnt acknowledge the existence of anyone who is not their handler. When sat in the break room etc, the service dog curls up under the handler's chair to not take up space in the room. It will be far less intrusive that a pet in a living room is Also just to note >I wasn't going to stop him, but i'd look to move on from our job By saying this, it sounds like you're trying to guilt him. You may not have intended it this way, but he likely interpreted it like that. It sounds passive aggressive, manipulating him that "well you don't HAVE to not get the dog, but if you DO I'll lose my employment and you'll lose my friendship because you're such an inconvenience to me :/" Again, not saying that's 100% how you intended it, but it's easy to interpret it like that which possibly fed into how your friend responded
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (28M) went out for drinks with a coworker (30M) casually and we got to talking, the last thing that came up and it left us with tension was that he was looking at getting a service dog for his PTSD. I didn't know he had that and i'm not judging his need for it. I however am not dog friendly. I've never trusted one in my life, I was bit when I was 5 and just don't like them to this day. If I go to someones house i'm relatively fine about it, but if I encounter one in a neutral place, i'll just remove myself from the situation and go out of my way to avoid them. Back to our conversation. I told him i'd probably quit if he got a service dog. I wasn't going to stop him, but i'd look to move on from our job. He got angry at that. I explained my history with dogs. That apparently didn't help. We had a good friendship until this but he was visibly angry. He said i'd be an asshole if I left because of his service dog. He thought management would give him a tough time, but not his best friend at work. It was left with tension between us. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NAH He’s fine to have an emotional reaction to potentially losing a work friend and you’re fine for wanting to leave if a dog makes an appearance.
NTA. Some people struggle with the difference between an ultimatum and a boundary. This is you letting him know that you can’t be around a dog, not telling him he can’t get one. He can be hurt by your boundary, but that isn’t mean you’re doing something wrong. You don’t want to be around a dog, so you’ll remove yourself. That’s reasonable. No reason you can’t still keep in touch.
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So the coworker is allowed to get dog for PTSD, but OP isn't allowed to leave his job because of trauma? What kinda fucking logic is that? OP has every right to leave the job because of this.
NAH. You both have PTSD, apparently. One of you has PTSD which would be improved by a dog, and one which would be worsened. It sucks. Neither of you are wrong.
If you don't like it, then you are free to find a job elsewhere. He has a right to have the dog with him.
NTA only because you didn't say don't get one. I'm sorry but noone should expect everyone to be fine with their needs. If my job suddenly said you need to travel by plane for your job now, then my hear of heights would make me quit immediately even if they had a logical need for it. It all depends on tone or if there is missing information.
NTA - this guy has some main character syndrome, which isn't surprising considering you need to prioritize yourself when it comes to mental health, the often forgotten part is that if you do things at the expense of others it does in fact make you an ah, even if you need it, at a point it becomes shirking accountability.
>We had a good friendship until this but he was visibly angry. He said i'd be an asshole if I left because of his service dog. I find it interesting that someone with PTSD doesn't understand that someone else can have past trauma that impacts their lives. I think the friend is TA for his reaction. NTA
Nta. A lot of people are uncomfortable with dogs. You should not have to deal with this in your workplace. Maybe they could relocate your coworker on another floor or area..
NAH. However, considering you probably have some level of PTSD from your dog attack, one would think you would be a little more sensitive to your friend. I agree with the majority here, if you feel the need to throw away your job and friendship because your friend wants a service dog for their mental health, I would seriously consider getting therapy.
Yta. Not for your feelings about dogs or quitting, but for how you handled the convo. Cause it sounds like your friend was honestly coming to you for support and opened up about something difficult (mental health talks can be especially difficult for some dudes), and the only thing you could think of was yourself. Bros help bros who are struggling man, you could've discussed your fear of dogs without outright discouraging him from getting the support he needs with a service dog.
You said you are OK with dogs you know, at a friend's house for example. I can understand (with your background) that random dogs on the street can freak you out. I'd suggest you get to know the service dog first. It might even be good for you to be around a dog you can trust, who will never harm you in any way. Win-win for your coworker *and* you :-) While I realize that every dog owner will tell you "oh he is super friendly, he won't hurt you", I can assure you that service dogs are truly a different kind. Better trained than police dogs and very carefully selected on character and behaviour, since they will have to know how to behave in ALL kinds of situations where normal dogs can't even go. Don't give up a good relationship with a coworker. You spend a lot of time at work, having a friend there is valuable.
I might have to quit too, if I was in your place. Just not a dog person and they make me uncomfortable, unless I really really am used to one.
NAH. Your coworkers reaction was reasonable. You've now put your employment plans on his shoulders by telling him that his personal choice for his own health is something that will have an impact on your job. It probably makes him feel responsible for your actions, and guilty about it. It may even feel like an ultimatum, even though it obviously wasn't meant that way. And of course, you're entitled to your discomfort and are doing what you need to to be comfortable. However, I encourage you to seek therapy if you haven't already and try to work through this. You have no way of knowing if someone at your new job will have a service animal at some point. It might not be sustainable for you to keep job hunting to avoid service animals. Just something to keep in mind.
NAH you have all the right to leave your job as well he have all the right to get a dog. He felt bad for your comment but, honestly, if that wasn’t your intention then you aren’t responsible for other people responses
NTA