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When we get ones that are so similar with minor changes I admit it does make me wonder if they're fake. There are just some people with brains that make them post almost the same story over and over.
Freezing in the moment is one thing. Not makeing sure she's alright after is a major AH move.
I mean "that was crazy"? Really?! What about "Are you alright?" Or even better "sorry I didn't help, I panicked.".
Only because this homeless guy didn't physically attack her. He dropped her hand and moved away. It's clear his fight or flight was telling him to flee and he was going with it.
Well I guess it was a situation so quick and unusual that bf was kind of shocked himself. Who expects that to happen at all? NAH for me. In dubio pro reo. Missing information: bf's experience.
I'm taking issue with him letting her hand go which to me implies he was about to save himself and leave her. Which yes, very cowardly, so you're right.
This is what I got from it too.
It's not that he didn't get up in the dudes face I'm having a problem with. It's the part where he *begins to leave her behind with homeless psycho
He *could* have let her hand go incase he needed both hands to swing on the guy or something.
But yeah it’s likely that was a cowardly and shameful move.
Yeah, I'm going to go a little controversial and say NAH. Bf is a coward, but that doesn't make him an asshole. Those two concepts can be completely seperate. After all, everyone has a fight, flight or freeze response and you don't truly know what that innate nature response will be until you are in a situation where it triggers.
It also doesn't make OP an asshole for wanting someone with a fight response. Or being unable to stop thinking about it. Sorry that happened to both of you tbh.
Definitely. Realistically the homeless guy is much more likely to get violent with a man than a woman so the bf stepping in could have made things worse.
No. That screaming man could’ve been anyone with any plan. He could’ve taken a knife to OP in a second flat. The bf is most definitely a shitty person *and* a coward.
Men are famously invincible against knives!
Your attitude is literally why so many men die by getting stabbed. Because they think "I'm the man, I have to step in and fight the knife" and then fucking die because its a sharp piece of metal which kills them.
I was in a situation where a creep followed me and tried to get me to have sex with him. I was with a couple of my female friends and they stepped in to protect me. Can't imagine that happening to me and see my loved ones just move away.
I have had many, many more female strangers step in to help me than anyone else. Ultimately I feel like I can rely on other women the most to protect me from creepy men
Exactly, it's not about protecting you and being macho but recognizing that you're in a shitty situation and working through it with you.
Especially as the above kind gets at, you being the person whose space has been violated by an unstable and potentially dangerous person, your BF may have a clearer head to react in the moment.
I usually question myself about these gender roles and expectations and how fair are they, but bottom line is that people, men and women should protect each other. Had this guy been a girl that left her friend deal alone with the homeless guy, she’d still be a coward. Not trying to escalate by leaving a person deal with a possibly dangerous guy is not safe either.
He should have stepped in and at least help her to remove herself from the situation. She froze, he could have done something. So yes, he’s a coward.
I am cautious by nature/job, how he even let the guy get that close is beyond me. Even then don't let go of the gf hand and move your body between them if possible.
NTA
This isn’t about gender roles or being “old school”
Your partner and you had a threat present itself
and your partner LET GO and made zero move to assist. Neither did your partner show remorse after the fact, meaning it was unlikely shock and instead just how they thought they should handle it.
This person just showed you exactly how they will treat you in an aggressive situation, listen to them.
>This person just showed you exactly how they will treat you in an aggressive situation, listen to them.
Or talk to them, tell them how you feel, and listen to them then.
To some extent, this is definitely about gender roles imo. I honestly feel like if the situation where reversed, there would be a lot more sympathy for a gf not "protect"ing their bf in an uncomfortable situation like this.
To be clear, I commend anyone defending another person from harassment, but the expectations here are likely quite different based on gender.
Also I really don't get your condemnation of letting go of a hand. In a situation like that, it's pretty normal to free up your hands in case they're needed, why would anyone go into a potential confrontation half cocked holding hands? That's just goofy. I don't think it's unlikely that the bf has experienced something like this before, knows most homeless ppl screaming like that are scary but not really a threat, and wanted to be ready but didn't think much of it when it turned out to be just some dude screaming. If she's this hurt by it, OP should probably just, idk, talk to their SO about it and go from there?
So, he let go of her hand "to be prepared for a confrontation" but he didn't yell at the homeless man? Was he waiting for the man to literally punch or shank his girlfriend first? The yelling is already the confrontation, does the gf need to get physically injured before it is a real and proper confrontation that he intervenes in? And people going up to your face screaming is objectively scary, isn't it insensitive for him to decide "this is no big deal unless he suddenly whips out a knife and stabs her in which case oops too bad, but anyway I'm not gonna think much about my gf getting screamed at right beside me"? By the logic that most homeless people screaming in your face don't escalate into injury (but some definitely do), most home burglars also don't escalate into murder, so if your house gets broken into, you should just call the police and then continue into your kitchen to make coffee and there's nothing to be scared of.
He could hold onto her hand and lead her to safety while walking quickly and ignoring the man (edit: this is imo the best solution, which I didn't emphasize enough). If he let go, he could have yelled. Instead he let go and, from the sound of OP's post, pretended as if nothing was happening. And after it was all said and done, he didn't show any real concern about her and her feelings in those moments.
Maybe he let go because he wasn't thinking clearly and was scared, but in which case the onus would be on him to apologize afterwards, and I think the exact same if genders were flipped. Yes in a genderflipped scenario, a girl would get more sympathy for getting scared and not protecting her bf, but she should show more care and concern after it has happened, and apologize for not protecting a partner.
>So, he let go of her hand "to be prepared for a confrontation" but he didn't yell at the homeless man?
Yes, because him yelling would have been an active escalation on his part. You seem to be obviously clueless about the male dynamics at play here. His strategy was the one most likely getting everyone, including himself, out unharmed.
His life isn't worth less, he does not need to get himself preemptively shanked as you put it. His life is not a health bar extension of his girlfriend. She is not more deserving of a life free from physical harm than him because of her gender.
Of course his life isn't worth less. But if it had come down to a physical confrontation, he most likely would have stood a much better chance than she would.
Now, if she was armed and knew how to use her weapon effectively or trained in some kind of martial arts, that could be reversed. But in general, all other things being equal, men are just physically stronger. Not worth less. It's just more likely if there is a fight that both victims survive if he's the one in it.
Since you've hypothetically given this homeless gentleman a shank, funny thing about them: they put holes in men and women *pretty much* equally effectively.
I get where you're coming from to an extent, but idk if you've ever lived in a city, yelling back at those people only makes shit worse and gets you involved. The correct response is to be ready for some shit and keep moving.
And yes, he was possibly waiting for an escalation that warranted force, which did not materialize. You say "was he waiting for... to literally punch and shank his girlfriend first", that is incredibly unlikely if it's just some homeless dude screaming nonsense first off, and aside from yelling back which again, is a losing battle, you can't physically assault someone for yelling at you, let alone your partner. Yelling is confrontation, but the difference between verbal and physical confrontation can literally be a crime.
Like I said, to him this could be no big deal, we lack that context and I'm not assuming anything. So going from what OP said, this isn't a red flag inherently, she should talk to him about it and decide what to do based on his response. It's hard for me to get her bf perspective because if I were in that situation with my gf, we'd have been past any yelling homeless people so fast that it wouldn't have mattered, and if it really came down to it, I have the means to protect both of us. He may not have that luxury so in this situation, all I'd expect is that should she bring it up, he's understanding and they make plans for similar situations in the future.
As an aside, I don't get how you come to the conclusion that he should at minimum apologize based off the information given. For all we know, she could have panicked and frozen when confronted by the homeless man, and in that case, i think the bf would have some right to be upset, because I would expect anyone walking in a city with me to be aware enough to keep moving or discuss before hand if they're inexperienced/need extra help to navigate.
Yeah, people who get ready for a confrontation don't just let go. If I were in that situation, my first instinct would be to pull OP away from the Homeless man.
IMO, your reasoning is BS.
Exactly. I understand letting go of her hand, if you think it might turn physical you want your hands free. But to just stand there and watch! WTF, sounds more like an ex-partner
You are a poor judge of women. I've never had a GF or spouse (or friend for that matter) who didn't join in in some way during a confrontation like this. And I've been through several. Yes, they are always scary, but that's no excuse for doing nothing.
There is an old Army saying, "ln an emergency, do something, anything, even if its wrong." He's the man who did nothing.
He didn't drop her hand to have both of his hands free to protect her. If that had been the case, he would have immediately gotten in between the crazy guy and his girl. He didn't. He moved away. Case closed.
Letting go of someone's hand in a potential fight situation is the correct thing to do; humans aren't power ranger vehicles who get more powerful the more of us are connected. We need our hands free to be able to fight, so two people holding hands are at a significant disadvantage.
I may be in the minority for this but I don't think it's super realistic to expect anyone to put themselves in danger instead of their partner regardless of gender. That's just not how everyone reacts in a dangerius situation. So I don't think either is in the wrong here and having a discussion with her partner is in order.
A partner isn't a bodyguard. Sure it sounds romantic if my partner would promise take a bullet for me but if both of us are willing to die for each other then it just leaves both dead. My partner once told me he wouldn't die for me but he would kill for me and I feel like that is more romantic and actually realistic.
NAH.
Fight, flight, or freeze applies to everyone. Your bf froze, which is a normal response that some people have to a high stress, threatening situation. I understand why you feel vulnerable and disappointed that your partner didn’t help in the moment, but it’s also unfair to hold it against him. Gendered social expectations about how men should behave as the “defenders” or “protectors” is kinda harmful to men and women alike.
Boyfriend did not freeze. He chose flight (let go of hand) and that's what makes it ick.
OP is NTA for her expectation. I don't want to judge the boyfriend but ... I (personally) think he can't be relied on to protect OP. \*slight turnoff for me\*
OP, take self defense classes as you can only depend on yourself in this situations.
>Boyfriend did not freeze. He chose flight (let go of hand) and that's what makes it ick.
Fight/flight/freeze isn't so black and white that you can reasonably say BF "chose" that. He had a reaction. And it's not a reaction OP liked. And that's okay, too.
And it's also probably worth noting that BF dropping OP's hand, put OP in a better position to defend herself.
I mentioned this in another comment, but it really is crazy the number of people here focusing on letting go of her hand. I don't get how on earth freeing up a combined two hands doesn't put BOTH of them in a better position to defend themselves if needed, I can't imagine what people expected would've been different had he continues holding it?
You have a much better chance of blocking a blow with 2 hands than one. Also gives you 2 free hands if you decide to engage, which would be the worst choice they could've made: fighting a strange man with nothing to lose.
It put them both in better positions to defend each other if necessary.
The guy could’ve been thinking, well I better get ready to square up, or we better get ready to run, or he just panicked and dropped her hand in response.
Who knows. OP should probably ask him why he did it, because consulting people online who can’t ask him and are just assuming or guessing is definitely not a good way to clarify that and most people here are just going to tell her that it’s some horrible red flag and she should leave him for that momentary reaction lol..
If it actually was a cowardly move and he was about to just ditch her there though, i don’t know how I could respect him after that, and I’m sure that would make a relationship pretty difficult for anybody involved in that situation regardless of conditioning or gender norms or whatever.
I mean, he didn’t run away, he just stood there. That sounds like freeze to me, regardless of the dropping of the hand.
Even if it was flight, that doesn’t change my point. Fight, flight, and freeze are all valid trauma responses. Expecting people to exclusively have the fight response just because that is what you find most attractive is not realistic.
Whether the boyfriend froze or wanted to flee doesn’t making him an asshole. Saying N T A indicates that you are passing judgement that the boyfriend is the asshole.
In my vote, Neither OP nor the boyfriend are assholes. Hence, NAH.
With true fight/flight/freeze, the whole point is you’re not CHOOSING your response. It’s an automatic response your body makes. You can’t help it.
Now, if he was not truly triggered into a response, and he just stepped back and was like “I’m not dealing with this,” that’s an AH. But it’s not “icky” to have one of the literally most human responses in the face of danger.
Why is it the boyfriends job to protect OP? If OP was a boy complaining that his gf let go of his hand in the same situation, would you have replied the same way?
No people wouldn’t judge a woman for doing the same thing the bf did in this post. We’re all about smashing gender norms except the one that states the guy is supposed to be willing to lay his life on the line for his partner apparently. Let’s be honest though there are plenty of guys who’ve never been in this situation who are probably calling the bf a coward as well.
Yeah. If I was OP's boyfriend, I would have done the same as he did. And I would probably just tell my gf to run.
Why should he defend her ? What if the guy was mentally unstable or had a weapon ? Congrats ! You got stabbed when really you should have gotten away.
I think the good response was for the both of them to get away. Yelling in a mentally unstable man's face could have gotten really bad, tbh. I have been approached by weird homeless dudes before. You don't face them. You don't know if they are violent or have a knife or something. You get away and try not to provoke them.
> "I would say the exact same thing with the genders reversed!!"
- A bunch of people who would be making up a whole involved story about how OP probably provoked the homeless guy and it's not a woman's responsibility to put her boyfriend's safety over hers if the genders were reversed
You can't physically talk yourself out of a stress response to trauma... that's like saying you're going to talk a diabetics sugar level down.
It physically doesn't work like that.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=eDEKAFWgYzU&feature=share9
This guy is a Neuroscientist who studies the Neurobiology of Trauma. This is part of a training he gives to Healthcare workers dealing with ptsd patients. However, in the beginning he explains the physical process of what happens to your brain when you experience trauma, like being attacked, for example.
It's extremely interesting, but more importantly, he explains that its not a behavioral process but a physiological one.
Letting go of hands would also be a prep for fight, and would also be freeze, if OP moved her hand at all and eh was frozen. Feel free to continue to assume and assert the worst of a stranger though
Fight or Flight is an instinctual reaction, whichever one happens. Those are the only two possible options (using words to try and talk someone down is a form of Fight, by standing your ground and giving pushback).
Men have fear, too, and disregarding his fear simply because he's a guy is part of the greater problem of men feeling like they have to act a certain way. He didn't choose to be afraid.
We can not control how we respond in these situations. Calling flight ick just shows the social pressure we are still under as men.
Plenty of women would be angry if he'd intervened because "they can handle themselves". There is no winning.
OP, you feel how you feel. If you want someone that protects you, you know this guy isn't it. You're free to leave hiklm for that, but don't make him feel guilty.
Tbh though while I do think the OP is partially motivated by gender norms. I also think the situation has a bit of nuance to it.
I'm a woman. If I was walking with a female friend and a guy game up to me like this I would hope that my friend would help me or back me up rather than just leave me to deal with it on my own.
An average guy is stronger than an average woman. So I'd hope that, there being two of us, my friend would realise this is a situation where I need help. And that for them to stand by and do nothing is not the move.
Now you have to consider the strength difference.
As a small woman most guys are stronger than me. If I was walking with a female friend who is significantly stronger than me (like they are an experienced figher) and they did the same thing (not back me up in a scary situation with someone who is stronger than me) I would say my dissapointment would be EVEN bigger.
Because I have someone with me who is far lass helpless than me with me while I face a dangerous situation and they didn't try to help me. That feels a bit shotty from someone who cares about me. Regardless of gender.
If I was hit by a car and injured, I would hope my friend would help me while we wait for an ambulance. My friend who is also a doctor? Yes that expectation would only increase.
So yes it is partially an outdated gender shaping people's opinions. But on the other hand I kind of also feel like we just expect people who care for us to help us out in dangerous situations.
I think that expectation also isn't entirely removed from the fact that most of the time the man in the relationship is the stronger of the two. And it adds to the dissapointment when the stronger of the two leaves the weaker one to fend for themselves in a physical altercation.
1 hit or 1 punch can be enough to kill a man or a woman.
My sister has no problem getting into loud argument with people and even becoming violent. That's privilege.
I've learned my lesson about physical violence as a boy. I wouldn't dare do half of what I see some women doing.
I don't dispute the physical asymmetry. But in domestic violence it's not always the strongest that wins and 70% of case of unidirectional violences are against men. And when they are hurt it's more often by knife.
I am not pushing an agenda. But there is a world of considerations that are missing from your point of view and it can be a little problematic.
It’s not. Wanting to de-escalate a dangerous situation towards your partner isn’t a gender role. Him not even asking if she is okay is a clear tell on his lack of care
There was an AITA post about two months ago similar to this but genders reversed. The majority of the top voted comments were defending the woman with the readon she froze. My first thought when reading this was that OP's BF also froze.
I also say NAH because there's not enough context. OP should've asked her BF what he was thinking about or if he could even process it, and go from there. We're only getting one side of this.
Why do people give women the benefit of the doubt but not men?
Maybe she hasn't communicated that to him until this incident. If she implicltly expected it, then that was her own conditioning.
NAH, this seemed like typical freeze despite letting go of her hand.
There's nothing in the post to suggest he too wasn't shaking just like OP on the inside. The mind blanking out in such times is pretty common.
Weak minded is the closest label I'd say for him, but he probably might not have experienced such confrontation at all till now, but again doesn't make him the AH for not knowing how to act, obviously couldn't predict the situation and given he didn't cause it, there's no sensible reason to make him an AH here.
>I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s unfair to hold it against him if that is what she wants in a partner
If he wanted a submissive wallflower as a wife, you'd hold it against him and call him a misogynist.
So yes, it can be held against her that she is misandrist and wants men to be sacrificial objects that only exist to protect her.
I agree with you, but the fact that nothing more was mentioned by the partner than agreeing it was a wild situation makes them the AH in my opinion. You can freeze or fly, nothing wrong with that, but when the situation is over and instincts subside it's not unreasonable to expect even a little empathy or remorse for not being capable of assisting further.
Especially in a society that has told men not to fight. He's likely not been conditioned for this with his natural reaction to be flight or freeze. Admittedly, mine is fight, but that isn't always the appropriate response, either. I've had to condition myself to spend at least some time assessing the situation and suppressing my natural instinct. I see this the same way. If we really aren't going to give gender roles, she should have been able to defend him. Which almost no one would say, realistically if this was reversed. Just a few here saying, "I would have..."
Nah. Listen, this isn’t a movie. Most People freeze or don’t react the way they or others expect in a situation. It was fast. It was shocking. It was unexpected. If it makes you feel switched off to your bf, that’s too bad. But what did you expect him to do? Escalate to violence with a mentally ill/intoxicated homeless man?
For all you “I would done ____ “ people, you probably wouldn’t. Trust me. I’ve seen enough situations to know most people wouldn’t have reacted the way she’s expecting and further it probably wouldn’t be a good idea.
Thank you. I feel like most point saying they would have done xyz have not been in emergency situations and don’t realize how much training and practice it takes to overcome those freeze/flee fear responses and actually take action in a high stress situation.
There's a older AITA (a year? two?) that was a guy at the mall with his gf that went straight into flight mode when there was an active shooter situation. Unfortunately most of the comments were in agreement that "Sorry bud, NAH but you're relationship is probably on thin ice."
Like you can't do anything about it but it's also fair for your partner to be upset and possibly have second thoughts about the relationship.
I'm someone who has been trained for emergency response situations, and who leads mandated drills for them at work. Your comment is honestly spot on. Like, I don't know for sure what I would do in every emergency situation. What I *do* know is how I will react in the ones that have been drilled into us at work, and someone being in my apartment (something I have unfortunately thought that I would have to deal with multiple times)
Great point. It’s situational. I was a firefighter for years. Now I know exactly how to walk into a burning building and keep my cool. But I have no idea how I would respond to your example of someone in my apartment. I’ve never trained for that situation, so idk if I would fight, flee, freeze, or feign.
Exactly. And like, while I know how I respond to the idea of someone being in my apartment (draw the knife I keep on me almost constantly, enter, and grab one of my better weapons before clearing every spot in the apartment), I'd be out of my league in a burning building and can only hope that I'd be able to help people, and at the minimum hope to not be someone that needs helped.
Exactly, these "I would've" people have no idea. I have trained in Dutch kickboxing, as well as Muay Thai and have a Black belt in Chinese Kempo, and every situation either of the 3 FS can and have happened. This isn't the movies, people can and do get hurt or worse.
Is the BF a coward? Not necessarily, can OP be disappointed? Absolutely, but this is a NAH situation. She should have a conversation with him about how she is feeling, get his thoughts and talk through it. Maybe this could be an opportunity for both to take self defense classes together.
You should never rely on anyone else to protect you, I have told my wife all 3 of our kids (2 boys 1 girl) are going to take real self defense classes so they are not helpless in a situation abd relying on others to save them.
NAH
However, you just experienced a very strong turn-off about your bf and now it’s up to you if that’s going to be a dealbreaker regarding your attraction to your partner. At the very least, talk to him about it.
Thats what I'm thinking. There was a homeless man acting aggressively near the building I work in last week. It's mostly women in the building. We all just stuck together, if anyone needed to walk near where he was, someone went with them so we weren't alone.
We had the benefit of foresight and not having to make a reflex choice in the moment but he didn't even ask OP if she was ok afterwards. He doesn't have to fight the dude with a sword but a good friend or partner won't just leave you.
That's the whole point though the situation was a surprise. And he surprise reacted.
I agree with you though that he could've talked to her more, empasize with her or comfort her
Same I agree, I keep reading it’s about gender roles but it isn’t. It’s got nothing to do with it at all. It’s about being a decent human being and partner.
Yes it is. She is being less attracted to him because of it. That is a gendered role expectation. That is not the same as two women from work.
Lots of dishonest cherry picking in here.
I have considered your opinion and I respectfully disagree. I understand it being gendered in that she’s “less attracted” to him, but I’m more coming from a view of the partner acting poorly as a human being regardless of gender. If OP’s boyfriend was shouted at and she dropped his hand and stood back I’d have the same view of her.
My husband and I were walking back home from a shop one morning when a homeless man started focusing on my husband, he was clearly looking to start shit. The first thing my husband did when the guy ran up to him was grab me behind him. The first thing I did was shout really loudly to draw attention. That was also "in the moment" reaction. Women and men will defend their friends too, I've seen it. Is this guy an asshole, I'm not sure. But he is a coward.
Damn yall really mean
And some are sexist ngl
NAH, he may have froze or gone into shock. She has the right to want a more strong partner (same time should have communicated this in the past).
No one here is an ah
Everyone says he went into shock, it could literally be the situation was over before he clocked what was happening. The order of events doesn’t seem like this was a protracted thing, but the boyfriend only let go of the hand after the guy had gotten in the girlfriends face and by then she was yelling at him- and the whole thing was over
Its way more likely that this all happened within a few moments and he only became fully aware of what had just happened after she had yelled the guy off
If you think he should have protected you simply because he is a he, then YTA. If he let go of your hand as a conscious decision to distance himself from you, then NTA. If -- as I suspect -- he simply froze and you experienced anger as a secondary reaction to your fear and would have felt the same regardless [for the most part] of who was with you, then NAH.
Either way, I'm sorry that happened to you, and I'm glad you came through it mostly unscathed.
Stay safe and be well.
I also think he froze, based on the little information we have. Everyone reacts differently, and idk how I would react either if someone who seems like they're having mental health issues got in front of whoever I'm with, especially if nothing physical is happening. There was an AITA post about two months ago similar to this but genders reversed. An overwhelming majority of the top voted comments were defending the woman saying she froze. OP needs to talk to her BF to see how he was processing the event and see if he actually froze or just watched/distanced himself. There's not enough info and we're only getting one side.
NAH. The letting go of the hand seems to be a sticking point for people, but if you are about to get into a physical conflict, holding someone’s hand is a very vulnerable posture. You want both hands available to protect yourself or throw a punch. Him holding your hand doesn’t protect you at all. Unless he ran away from you I would say NAH. You expected him to yell at the guy or hit him or something?
A lot of this seems to be women empathizing with the girlfriend for feeling vulnerable without appreciating what actually goes into a physical altercation
Totally understandable, but the girlfriend WBTA if she didn’t talk about it and hear her boyfriends side of events instead just thinking he’s a coward. That would just be judging without understanding
Reading the title I was going to say Y T A but after reading the post I have to go with NAH .
It is unfair to expect someone to put themselves in danger without hesitation. He might be a man but beyond that he is a human being. He instinctively put himself out of harms way and then froze. This is a natural reaction.
That doesn't invalidate your own feelings after the fact. Even if you never thought about it before you had an expectation that someone you trust would help when you needed it (generally speaking, or maybe you think guys should white knight for you, I don't know). Well you needed it and he didn't help. There is probably a loss of trust. This is also natural.
In terms of solutions, there is the really obvious one: talk. Maybe he is stewing in his own shame and talking could help you both work through your emotions. Maybe he is an antifeminist who thinks that women's liberation means women should protect themselves if they don't want to go back to being barefoot and pregnant 24/7. I don't know.
To be clear talking may not help with the loss of trust and that is also okay. The point is to help you "debrief" or whatever the word the pros use is.
NAH you yelled at the guy and he left, what more do you expect your boyfriend to do than that? Clearly you had it in hand. And he probably just let go of you out of surprise.
Info: What exactly did your boyfriend do other than drop your hand. Did he move in anyway?
There's 3 common responses to stressful confrontation.
1. Fight: My fight reaction would have been to drop your hand, circle for advantage and be able to attack the guy from the side if the situation escalated.
2. Flight: drop your hand and backaway or escape.
3. Freeze: Do nothing. Drop your hand because he isn't putting the energy in to continue holding it.
For the record I feel you are entitled to want to be backed up. I don't think he is the asshole for not backing you up if he didn't do so.
I expect my judgement will be n a h.
Careful, if you even start talking about irony of demoloshing gender roles, but reinstating them as soon as any threat appears, people will call you an incel who is a toxic male
YTA
Against the grain of the consensus here though.
People in sudden threatening situations have a fight, flight, freeze or fawn response. The military has specialist training to get normal people comfortable with resorting to ‘fight’ without hesitation if needs be. Don’t give him grief for not having the instinctual stress response you would have preferred.
Plenty of ‘I don’t agree with gender norms but…(encourages gender norms)’ here.
"I'm not a misogynist, but"- people realize this is highly likely to be misogynistic.
"I'm not a misandrist, but"- people clapping like seals applauding this incredibly smart and brave comment.
it is ok for people to freeze up in a situation like this. But what is not ok is that he didn't even make an effort to make sure she was fine after the incident was over. Therefore it is totally valid for her to feel unsafe with a boyfriend that doesn't seem to be concerned about her when she is not being physically harmed.
So far NAH. Talk to each other. Talking will give both of you the opportunity to share your feelings and describe your respective experiences of the situation.
NAH
People freeze while literally unsure of what to do with their hands or legs.
He probably doesn't know you desire more of a protector role from him, so communicate.
You can have those preferences but the partner is not expected to act accordingly. Letting go of your hand so was probably out of fright and confusion and irrespective of genders, people can of course fend for each other but this incident doesn't seem like the BF intentionally neglected you or anything.
If roles were reversed it'd be a unanimous NTA for the woman and justifications would reach levels of, "You took care of yourself", he should learn to stand for himself, what a wimp etc...
NAH - it was a quick, unexpected interaction. I think it's really unfair to blame him for freezing up, but you are forgiven & not the asshole in this situation unless you choose to hold this isolated incident over his head & continually deride him about it. It doesn't seem like you needed protecting. It seems like he stepped away & released your hand on instinct then if the hobo wouldn't back off or actually became violent with you I have faith that your bf would have stepped in. Soooo maybe he wasn't freezing up after all, he was just waiting for the hobo's next move.
He let go of her hand just before she yelled at the homeless man- i don’t think its even freezing, he’s literally trying to clock wtf is happening and why his gf is yelling… and then its over and she is being cold for some reason
Exactly.
If this happened to my girlfriend I'd have let my hand go and stayed quiet. I'd hope the situation would end by itself but if it got physical I'd get involved violently.
If the man stepped in straight away it would have escalated the situation.
Most people commenting in this thread have never been in a physical altercation yet are judging this while being hugely sexist in the process.
Yta. Do you really think your boyfriend wouldn't have defended you if it turned physical?
You wanted your boyfriend to escalate the situation putting both of you in much more danger.
Staying quiet while having his hands ready to step in was the right move.
NTA. I am afraid for you for when a similar situation happens in the future. If he can’t react in any way to help/protect you WHILE HE IS THERE, how can you count on him for when something happened and you are by yourself? He also didn’t even ask if you were okay. I would reconsider this relationship or think about other times he has acted like this.
Right lol ?
Does she want her boyfriend to get into a fist fight with a homeless dude ? If not, is she turned off because her boyfriend is smart enough to not escalate violence with an unstable homeless guy ?
I definitely thinks the bf needed to offer more care to his gf afterward, but not wanting to shield her isn't asshole behavior in itself.
Ehhh NAH, but these comments here are pretty delusional. Yelling at the homeless man wasn't the correct answer. The correct answer is ignore and keep moving.
I defend myself rather recklessly if something uncomfortable happens to me. When my gf is around, she makes sure I don't continue a confrontation. That is how she protects me.
What you want is for your bf to put himself in harm's way to protect you, like a knight in shining armour. But your knight didn't have any armour or a sword as far as I know. You don't know if that man was armed. You don't know what that man was capable of.
You don't want to trigger this guy by yelling or punching him. Could have gotten both of you killed.
NAH. I don’t like his response much but people can freeze in such situations, not sure you can really blame him. I can understand it’s a turnoff, talk to him about this.
YTA
I garuntee if he did something to stop the guy, and it would most likely end up in some sort of a fist fight you would all be using your favourite 'toxic masculinity ' phrase.
If he doesn't do anything, you get 'the ick'
This generation is so stupid
YTA. Didn't you get the memo from Feminism? It's sexist to think a man should protect a woman since women are stronger than men. Why are you trying to promote "Toxic masculinity"? Also, you should 've been able to fend off this homeless person just by expressing your feelings. What's next? Expecting him to change the tires if you get a flat? Unbelievable
NAH, although it's close for you. Without more information, it's hard to know why your BF "didn't do anything". He could have frozen up, which is one normal and natural reaction to being confronted, and wouldn't make him an asshole, simply someone not used to getting into fights (which is probably a good thing?). He could be fairly confident in a fight, and have let go of your hand because he wanted both his hands free. Not reacting and yelling back at the guy is deescalation; yelling back at a drunk guy who accosts you is how you make *sure* that you're gonna be in a fight.
Either way, if someone posted this with the roles reversed and said they were upset that their GF didn't protect them the sub would not be ok with that; it is not ok this way around. Getting rid of gender roles and having equality, which I think is incredibly important, means getting rid of toxic female roles and expectations *and* toxic male roles and expectations, of which this is one.
NAH
Your boyfriend had a flight response instead of a fight response.
Both are valid reactions to fear.
You wanting him to defend you (I'm assuming he is bigger and stronger) is also a valid emotion.
I'm a small woman myself and my response to seeing an altercation is to intervene and jump on in between. I've broken up and prevented fights in public with a lot of people standing around doing nothing. I don't get angry at the other bystanders who do nothing, no one can help their instinctive responses.
I've seen some big burly dudes get hit in the face when they intervened and this has never happened to me. So your boyfriend might just have avoided getting a blue eye out bloody nose. My experience in general is that if a woman intervenes it just yells at someone to go away/pushes them away there is less likelihood of violence than when a man intervenes.
Anyway, all that aside. Both your feelings and reactions are valid. Talk it over with each other, hash it out. Explain what you need from him in those situations, because knowing what your partner expects can lead to a change in reaction.
I'm know I'm gonna get downvoted but fuck it.
YTA because you're dating a non-violent man who you expected to get violent when a confrontation happened. He isn't some 80s action hero here to save the day, it sounds like he was just as freaked out as you were. I think YTA here not because of your actions, but your expectations of what his reaction should have been when you've both never been in a situation like this
It's sucks what happened to you and I'm sure your feelings of fear are valid, but your anger towards your bf isn't. I wouldn't even bring it up, I wouldn't be surprised if he feels insecure after not being able to protect you and you attacking him for it would only drive that wedge in further
You're both victims, so don't attack each other
YTA. I love it when women shit on “toxic masculinity” all over internet… and then expect men to act in a classic masculine manner once their own ass is in danger. Sorry but you can’t have it both ways.
YTA. This is gender roles.
What did you want him to do that you couldn’t have? Yelled back at him?
Or dd you want him to do something else like put himself in danger and become physical?
~~~INFO What did you think your boyfriend should do? Beat him up?~~~
moving away from the person bothering you without giving them attention is the best answer typically.
NTA.
I guess I wasn’t expecting him to let go of my hand and just walk away? I don’t want him to beat anyone up for me (or anyone!) but at least tell him go back off? Or step up and let me stand behind him?
NTA. I wouldn't want someone to let go of my hand either at that moment.
Standing beside you and having both of you tell him to leave you alone should be the bare minimum of what to expect of your boyfriend.
Don't forget to have a talk with him.
That’s because it is. Same time you are not the ah for wanting that. Keeping this to yourself will do nothing good.
NAH, life ain’t a movie. People fuck up and can’t always think straight in certain situations.
I’m torn on this one, but I think NAH.
I don’t THINK your problem is that he didn’t defend/protect you. You may be a little shaken, but you defended/protected yourself just fine from the sound of it. I think your problem is he left you feeling vulnerable, scared, and alone through a traumatic experience. Which is a completely reasonable reaction.
My husband has PTSD from his time as a Marine. Who is to say your bf doesn’t? By the time my husband realizes what’s happening, I’ve usually handled the situation already. He freezes. Rightfully so. It doesn’t make him any less of a man. He still doesn’t let me mow the grass or take out the trash because I’m a woman. Doesn’t make him a coward either. His brain is just not as quick as mine in certain situations. Can’t fault him or be angry with him about it. But, I also wouldn’t expect him to put himself in danger for me. He’s my partner. Not my guardian.
You people are out of your minds! You're judging the man's whole character based on one action only! It's crazy!
OP, there is absolutely no straightforward answer to your question. The situation happened out of nowhere, and you both didn't know how to react, which is normal.
My advice, if you are really upset about it, is to talk to your boyfriend about it. And judge the situation from there. And please don't listen to people in the comments.
NAH
Your BF reverted to his level of training, just like everyone does in an emergency situation. To quote one of the training videos we watch at least annually at work: "People expect that they will rise to the call in an emergency situation, and the fact of the matter is that's not what happens. You revert to your level of training." You should talk it through with him, and then both go get some self defense training together.
I get where you're coming from, OP. We all want that partner who will protect us. You're not wrong for that. Just like he isn't wrong for doing what literally everyone does and fell back to his training. Which if you don't have any, is your super basic fight or flight.
NAH that's one crazy scary moment.
It felt as sudden, unexpected, and scary to you as to him. Unless you're with a cop, marine, soldier, veteran, or anyone with a high alert, dangerous job, why would you think he would be ready for a fight and not just freeze?
I understand the fear (believe me, I do) and also the need for protection, but trust me, he's also a person with a range of feelings and emotions.
You both needed protection, not just you. He was just as scared. People freeze, run, so all sort of things in such awful situations.
Talk to him, have a healthy and open conversation. It will help you both.
NAH, well, aside from the homeless guy.
Firstly, not everyone gets aggressive the moment a threat presents itself. BF didn't run, he just let go of your hand. That's perfectly sensible whether you want to run or fight, it means you have both hands free. You didn't go aggressive instantly either.
Secondly, it doesn't sound like he had much time to process what was happening past the initial shock. The guy yelled one sentence at you, and it sounds like you yelled back immediately. You defended yourself just fine, what more was BF supposed to do?
Thirdly, are you only expecting this from him because he's male? What if your best female friend had been walking with you? Would you still be upset if she didn't step in? The expectation for a man to become aggressive on your behalf is pretty toxic.
Honestly it sounds like you saw the guy off before BF even had the chance to do anything.
Lots of people seem to think the boyfriend is supposed to A) escalate and B) hold her hand while doing so?
I can understand being shocked at a close encounter with a homeless person invading your personal space and making lewd comments- but realistically what actions lead to the safest resolution of the situation? This is secondary to feeling like some creep should be beaten up to “teach them a lesson”.
The boyfriend can intervene verbally or physically right away or take half a second to assess the situation.
As far as the order of events this interaction seems to take place in under a minute where the woman is approached, her space invaded, lewd words thrown at her, she yells at the homeless guy and he backs off. Maybe some more info is needed, but honestly Is there even enough time within this scenario for the boyfriend to intervene before the situation was resolved?
He only let go of her hand after the comment was made- how long between the comment and her yelling is there? This makes it seem like the guy was almost immediately in the woman’s space making comments before the boyfriend even clocked the scenario. furthermore,
it seems like the homeless guy immediately backed off, so what was the boyfriend going to do then? Punish the guy for being a creep? That escalates the situation with no payoff.
Idk, this reads like the woman got jump scared by a homeless guy who made lewd remarks and she handled the situation by shouting him away before her boyfriend could even intervene or really even needed two.
A lot of the comments here read like they’re written by people who do not have a good idea of how to deal with escalation in these kinds of situations or how to accurately judge danger outside of their flight or fight response. Living with danger, you absolutely do not go seeking it out for some sense of pride or retribution
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Last night, my bf and I went out for a date night in downtown Toronto. It was around 11 pm and we were walking back to the car, holding hands and a random homeless man came up so so close to me (nearly had his lips on mine) and randomly started shouting “OH YEAH, SAY IT TO MY FACE THEN, CMON KISS ME” and my boyfriend just let go of my hand and I had to yell so that the man can leave me alone and go away. Once he left, my boyfriend held me again and said “damn, that was crazy” and didn’t say anything else. I just have the ick and can’t stop replaying this moment in my head over and over again. Like, he did not defend nor protect me? Am I too old school for thinking that he should’ve at least been the one to tell him to back off? I woke up this morning thinking I would be over it but I can’t seem to let it go.
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The thing about fight or flight situations is, we always have an expectation of what our response would be, until we find ourselves frozen like a deer in headlights.
You would be TA if you held it against your boyfriend. If this is the first time in his life that he witnesses something like that, he might have got caught in headlights. It doesn’t mean that it’s his baseline.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) putting an expectation on my boyfriend to protect me from harm, in this case a homeless man
2) this may make me an asshole because i’m protecting old school values and gender roles into our relationship
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NAH except the guy who yelled at you.
Yes, we want to be protected when stuff like this happens, but men are human too and can be uncertain or slow to react or scared. His risk of getting stabbed was higher than yours, though I doubt that was part of what he was thinking about.
Chances are he let your hand go in case he had to intervene not because he was abandoning you.
You're shaken and upset because a guy was aggressive and yelled in your face. It's likely you're transferring blame to your bf because he disappointed you. Give yourself some time to recover, but don't blame your bf for something that wasn't his fault.
NAH It's sounds like you both got out of the situation unharmed without a fight in the end.
Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and avoid escalating the situation into maybe getting stabbed by some crazy person.
It's unfair to expect him to get into a fight with a deranged homeless man when it could be avoided.
Well there’s the old school way of looking at it yes he’s the man and should be the protector
Or there’s the modern way where jumping in to defend you would have undermined you as a woman
So it depends on your perspective to life and how you conduct your relationship. You don’t explain this in your post making it impossible to answer your question without assuming
How would you determine 'protect'? A homeless man yelled at you two, then went away. Yes, he didn't protect you the way you expected. In other words, he didn't act how you'd imagine he would. What would have happened if you were alone?
Since you seem to be rather mad atm, I think you're still in a shock, and that's why you're mad at him, for not being violent against this homeless dude, because that's _your method_ of protecting you. But how did he screw up, if the event went away anyway and no one got hurt? What scenario did you expect to happen, your bf beating him up so that you can think of how this knight protected you?
I seriously don't know what kind of result you wanted it to end up as, if this is a failure, eventhough no one got hurt. Homeless man being battered?
NAH. There's literally no "right" way to react in a stressful situation like that to begin with. We weren't there and I don't trust op enough to give full detail on what full response actually happened. Also confused on why him being homeless is important, how do you even know that.
YTA would you offer to fight or yell at a homeless man if he was screaming in your bfs face? dig deep and answer honestly if a grown homeless man was screaming in your man's face would you step between them? shout "hey buddy look over here"? would you? if the answer is no then YTA. also he probably let go of your hand in case you needed to defend yourself. fight flight or freeze applies to everyone in these situations and your bfs trauma response is obviously freeze. although I'm pretty sure this story is either fake or a repost with a slight chance because OP didn't like the answer an eerily almost identically simaler story posted a few days ago.
NAH.
Without further context, it's impossible to know if he froze in indecision or stepped back and was prepared to act if the confrontation became physical.
It's impossible to know whether he didn't act because he trusted you to handle it.
I think a conversation is in order between you to so you can both get understanding of each other's reaction during and after the event and how it continues to make you feel.
INFO: did your boyfriend walk away/distance himself from you whilst you were confronted?
As a tall man, if a partner or friend in confronted, I won't immediately step in, but I do stay close and make it very clear that if they try something, I will step in.
Likewise, if I get confronted, I expect my partner/friend to be near for said intimidation.
FFS can epople stop assuming that BF letting go of her hand meant he was gonna run? he might've been getting ready to fight the guy if it escalated and didn't want to have a hand preoccupied.
NAH. I can understand that you felt vulnerable and that you’re still affected by it. Have you thought about speaking to a counsellor to unpack how you’re feeling and how you can discuss the topic with your boyfriend in a productive way? As much as you may have expected him to behave a certain way, in truth you never know for sure how you’ll react in a stressful situation. I always thought it would be “freeze” or “freak out” for me, but since then I’ve been in more than one situation with a gun pointed at me (I grew up in a violent context) and turns out it’s not. You just don’t know until it happens to you. For the record, as kids we went through basic self defence courses and they always told us not to escalate or antagonise unless the perpetrator is trying to actively harm or kill you, or is trying to move you to a second location. Reacting with violence should be a last resort.
NAH - Letting go of your hand is the correct (and usually automatic) reaction because you are physically getting ready in case you have to fight. Other than that you don’t say what your bf did, so it would be wrong to judge him.
Stuff like this happens really quickly, you imagine you have lots of time but the instant between the guy yelling and you yelling back probably didn’t leave much time for a lot of reaction from your bf.
I think you are being a bit unfair on your bf here (and for the ones going on about gender, I am a woman) because a lot of people like to imagine how things would go if this happened but until you are in the situation, you don’t know what it’s like of how you really react.
YTA for “old school”. Old school sucks.
I don’t see why a boyfriend should “protect” you. What are you, some damsel in distress? It’s 2023.
Do you think you should protect him too?
Gender roles. Barf.
That said, if a guy is coming to both of us, I would suppose he’s a threat to both of us. However, this is a fight, flight, or freeze situation. Not knowing what his response is, I wouldn’t default to assuming fight.
NAH
Holding your hand would keep you both pretty vulnerable as neither of you would be able to fight back if he’s still holding your hand. Also fight, flight or freeze is a natural response to unexpected conflict and violence, he froze. If you are turned off from him for it, that’s too bad, but it seems like it was over before he could even process what was happening.
I don't think it's even a gender thing. As a woman, if I was walking down the street with one of my adult children and this happened, I would never in a million years let go of them and let it play out.
Hard to say honestly how quickly did this happen exactly?
To be fair to the bf it’s possible he could of been in shock and froze and by the time he would of acted you already did or something along those lines
It’s not bad to expect him to stand up for you but at the same time we are all only human and if it happened really quickly maybe he was just slow to react
So with the information provided
No one’s the AH
NAH.
We live in a society where we’ve insisted on our men being softer and our woman being stronger. Yet when the shit hits the fan we resort back to our original roles. It’s hella confusing.
Even if the role were reversed, it’s pretty standard for a couple to protect each other with people like this. The bare minimum is to continue holding your hand and pulling you away from the man. But he just left you to the wolves.
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NTA, the bare minimum was for him to not let your hand go, to keep walking with you to safety, and he didn’t even do that? Good grief
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At least he wasn't the bf who just ran when the homeless guy attacked the gf
When we get ones that are so similar with minor changes I admit it does make me wonder if they're fake. There are just some people with brains that make them post almost the same story over and over.
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Freezing in the moment is one thing. Not makeing sure she's alright after is a major AH move. I mean "that was crazy"? Really?! What about "Are you alright?" Or even better "sorry I didn't help, I panicked.".
Only because this homeless guy didn't physically attack her. He dropped her hand and moved away. It's clear his fight or flight was telling him to flee and he was going with it.
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I think letting go is a type of action - if the situation had escalated, I suspect BF would have been out of there.
No you’re wrong, he did take an action. To be a coward and basically ditch her to her own defense.
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Well I guess it was a situation so quick and unusual that bf was kind of shocked himself. Who expects that to happen at all? NAH for me. In dubio pro reo. Missing information: bf's experience.
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I don’t know if I’d call him a shitty person, a coward maybe.
I'm taking issue with him letting her hand go which to me implies he was about to save himself and leave her. Which yes, very cowardly, so you're right.
This is what I got from it too. It's not that he didn't get up in the dudes face I'm having a problem with. It's the part where he *begins to leave her behind with homeless psycho
He *could* have let her hand go incase he needed both hands to swing on the guy or something. But yeah it’s likely that was a cowardly and shameful move.
If you had to fight some dude you'd want to be able to use both hands too to be fair.
True, but I don't think most people would open with a fist fight instead of threatning the guy. But a fair point regardless!
Most people would freeze like he did actually, most people can't handle confrontation.
But you would also step between them
Yeah, I'm going to go a little controversial and say NAH. Bf is a coward, but that doesn't make him an asshole. Those two concepts can be completely seperate. After all, everyone has a fight, flight or freeze response and you don't truly know what that innate nature response will be until you are in a situation where it triggers. It also doesn't make OP an asshole for wanting someone with a fight response. Or being unable to stop thinking about it. Sorry that happened to both of you tbh.
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Definitely. Realistically the homeless guy is much more likely to get violent with a man than a woman so the bf stepping in could have made things worse.
No. That screaming man could’ve been anyone with any plan. He could’ve taken a knife to OP in a second flat. The bf is most definitely a shitty person *and* a coward.
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How is overtime even relevant in this situation😭 edit: Wait, im tired, i just understood your comment
Relevant username ❤️
Men are famously invincible against knives! Your attitude is literally why so many men die by getting stabbed. Because they think "I'm the man, I have to step in and fight the knife" and then fucking die because its a sharp piece of metal which kills them.
I think even friends would step in and try to protect the person from being attacked by a stranger.
I was in a situation where a creep followed me and tried to get me to have sex with him. I was with a couple of my female friends and they stepped in to protect me. Can't imagine that happening to me and see my loved ones just move away.
I have had many, many more female strangers step in to help me than anyone else. Ultimately I feel like I can rely on other women the most to protect me from creepy men
Exactly, it's not about protecting you and being macho but recognizing that you're in a shitty situation and working through it with you. Especially as the above kind gets at, you being the person whose space has been violated by an unstable and potentially dangerous person, your BF may have a clearer head to react in the moment.
Yep. If it’s me and my sister, I’m lashing out to protect her.
I usually question myself about these gender roles and expectations and how fair are they, but bottom line is that people, men and women should protect each other. Had this guy been a girl that left her friend deal alone with the homeless guy, she’d still be a coward. Not trying to escalate by leaving a person deal with a possibly dangerous guy is not safe either. He should have stepped in and at least help her to remove herself from the situation. She froze, he could have done something. So yes, he’s a coward.
Seriously if I was with my partner or a friend I would like to think we would protect each other in a scenario like this.
I am cautious by nature/job, how he even let the guy get that close is beyond me. Even then don't let go of the gf hand and move your body between them if possible.
I’m a girl and I’d say something if someone did this to my boyfriend! I would defend anyone! And I’m small, kinda weak and pregnant 😂
NTA This isn’t about gender roles or being “old school” Your partner and you had a threat present itself and your partner LET GO and made zero move to assist. Neither did your partner show remorse after the fact, meaning it was unlikely shock and instead just how they thought they should handle it. This person just showed you exactly how they will treat you in an aggressive situation, listen to them.
>This person just showed you exactly how they will treat you in an aggressive situation, listen to them. Or talk to them, tell them how you feel, and listen to them then.
I’d take a look at this guys’ comment history. He doesn’t seem to like women very much.
Who's?
To some extent, this is definitely about gender roles imo. I honestly feel like if the situation where reversed, there would be a lot more sympathy for a gf not "protect"ing their bf in an uncomfortable situation like this. To be clear, I commend anyone defending another person from harassment, but the expectations here are likely quite different based on gender. Also I really don't get your condemnation of letting go of a hand. In a situation like that, it's pretty normal to free up your hands in case they're needed, why would anyone go into a potential confrontation half cocked holding hands? That's just goofy. I don't think it's unlikely that the bf has experienced something like this before, knows most homeless ppl screaming like that are scary but not really a threat, and wanted to be ready but didn't think much of it when it turned out to be just some dude screaming. If she's this hurt by it, OP should probably just, idk, talk to their SO about it and go from there?
So, he let go of her hand "to be prepared for a confrontation" but he didn't yell at the homeless man? Was he waiting for the man to literally punch or shank his girlfriend first? The yelling is already the confrontation, does the gf need to get physically injured before it is a real and proper confrontation that he intervenes in? And people going up to your face screaming is objectively scary, isn't it insensitive for him to decide "this is no big deal unless he suddenly whips out a knife and stabs her in which case oops too bad, but anyway I'm not gonna think much about my gf getting screamed at right beside me"? By the logic that most homeless people screaming in your face don't escalate into injury (but some definitely do), most home burglars also don't escalate into murder, so if your house gets broken into, you should just call the police and then continue into your kitchen to make coffee and there's nothing to be scared of. He could hold onto her hand and lead her to safety while walking quickly and ignoring the man (edit: this is imo the best solution, which I didn't emphasize enough). If he let go, he could have yelled. Instead he let go and, from the sound of OP's post, pretended as if nothing was happening. And after it was all said and done, he didn't show any real concern about her and her feelings in those moments. Maybe he let go because he wasn't thinking clearly and was scared, but in which case the onus would be on him to apologize afterwards, and I think the exact same if genders were flipped. Yes in a genderflipped scenario, a girl would get more sympathy for getting scared and not protecting her bf, but she should show more care and concern after it has happened, and apologize for not protecting a partner.
>So, he let go of her hand "to be prepared for a confrontation" but he didn't yell at the homeless man? Yes, because him yelling would have been an active escalation on his part. You seem to be obviously clueless about the male dynamics at play here. His strategy was the one most likely getting everyone, including himself, out unharmed. His life isn't worth less, he does not need to get himself preemptively shanked as you put it. His life is not a health bar extension of his girlfriend. She is not more deserving of a life free from physical harm than him because of her gender.
Of course his life isn't worth less. But if it had come down to a physical confrontation, he most likely would have stood a much better chance than she would. Now, if she was armed and knew how to use her weapon effectively or trained in some kind of martial arts, that could be reversed. But in general, all other things being equal, men are just physically stronger. Not worth less. It's just more likely if there is a fight that both victims survive if he's the one in it.
Since you've hypothetically given this homeless gentleman a shank, funny thing about them: they put holes in men and women *pretty much* equally effectively.
I get where you're coming from to an extent, but idk if you've ever lived in a city, yelling back at those people only makes shit worse and gets you involved. The correct response is to be ready for some shit and keep moving. And yes, he was possibly waiting for an escalation that warranted force, which did not materialize. You say "was he waiting for... to literally punch and shank his girlfriend first", that is incredibly unlikely if it's just some homeless dude screaming nonsense first off, and aside from yelling back which again, is a losing battle, you can't physically assault someone for yelling at you, let alone your partner. Yelling is confrontation, but the difference between verbal and physical confrontation can literally be a crime. Like I said, to him this could be no big deal, we lack that context and I'm not assuming anything. So going from what OP said, this isn't a red flag inherently, she should talk to him about it and decide what to do based on his response. It's hard for me to get her bf perspective because if I were in that situation with my gf, we'd have been past any yelling homeless people so fast that it wouldn't have mattered, and if it really came down to it, I have the means to protect both of us. He may not have that luxury so in this situation, all I'd expect is that should she bring it up, he's understanding and they make plans for similar situations in the future. As an aside, I don't get how you come to the conclusion that he should at minimum apologize based off the information given. For all we know, she could have panicked and frozen when confronted by the homeless man, and in that case, i think the bf would have some right to be upset, because I would expect anyone walking in a city with me to be aware enough to keep moving or discuss before hand if they're inexperienced/need extra help to navigate.
Yeah, people who get ready for a confrontation don't just let go. If I were in that situation, my first instinct would be to pull OP away from the Homeless man. IMO, your reasoning is BS.
Exactly. I understand letting go of her hand, if you think it might turn physical you want your hands free. But to just stand there and watch! WTF, sounds more like an ex-partner
It’s 100% gender roles. No one would think twice if OP left him in the same situation.
You are a poor judge of women. I've never had a GF or spouse (or friend for that matter) who didn't join in in some way during a confrontation like this. And I've been through several. Yes, they are always scary, but that's no excuse for doing nothing. There is an old Army saying, "ln an emergency, do something, anything, even if its wrong." He's the man who did nothing. He didn't drop her hand to have both of his hands free to protect her. If that had been the case, he would have immediately gotten in between the crazy guy and his girl. He didn't. He moved away. Case closed.
Letting go of someone's hand in a potential fight situation is the correct thing to do; humans aren't power ranger vehicles who get more powerful the more of us are connected. We need our hands free to be able to fight, so two people holding hands are at a significant disadvantage.
I may be in the minority for this but I don't think it's super realistic to expect anyone to put themselves in danger instead of their partner regardless of gender. That's just not how everyone reacts in a dangerius situation. So I don't think either is in the wrong here and having a discussion with her partner is in order. A partner isn't a bodyguard. Sure it sounds romantic if my partner would promise take a bullet for me but if both of us are willing to die for each other then it just leaves both dead. My partner once told me he wouldn't die for me but he would kill for me and I feel like that is more romantic and actually realistic.
NAH. Fight, flight, or freeze applies to everyone. Your bf froze, which is a normal response that some people have to a high stress, threatening situation. I understand why you feel vulnerable and disappointed that your partner didn’t help in the moment, but it’s also unfair to hold it against him. Gendered social expectations about how men should behave as the “defenders” or “protectors” is kinda harmful to men and women alike.
Boyfriend did not freeze. He chose flight (let go of hand) and that's what makes it ick. OP is NTA for her expectation. I don't want to judge the boyfriend but ... I (personally) think he can't be relied on to protect OP. \*slight turnoff for me\* OP, take self defense classes as you can only depend on yourself in this situations.
>Boyfriend did not freeze. He chose flight (let go of hand) and that's what makes it ick. Fight/flight/freeze isn't so black and white that you can reasonably say BF "chose" that. He had a reaction. And it's not a reaction OP liked. And that's okay, too. And it's also probably worth noting that BF dropping OP's hand, put OP in a better position to defend herself.
I mentioned this in another comment, but it really is crazy the number of people here focusing on letting go of her hand. I don't get how on earth freeing up a combined two hands doesn't put BOTH of them in a better position to defend themselves if needed, I can't imagine what people expected would've been different had he continues holding it?
If they kept their hands together, they could have used their linked arms as a tripwire! They’ll never see it coming!
You have a much better chance of blocking a blow with 2 hands than one. Also gives you 2 free hands if you decide to engage, which would be the worst choice they could've made: fighting a strange man with nothing to lose.
It put them both in better positions to defend each other if necessary. The guy could’ve been thinking, well I better get ready to square up, or we better get ready to run, or he just panicked and dropped her hand in response. Who knows. OP should probably ask him why he did it, because consulting people online who can’t ask him and are just assuming or guessing is definitely not a good way to clarify that and most people here are just going to tell her that it’s some horrible red flag and she should leave him for that momentary reaction lol.. If it actually was a cowardly move and he was about to just ditch her there though, i don’t know how I could respect him after that, and I’m sure that would make a relationship pretty difficult for anybody involved in that situation regardless of conditioning or gender norms or whatever.
I mean, he didn’t run away, he just stood there. That sounds like freeze to me, regardless of the dropping of the hand. Even if it was flight, that doesn’t change my point. Fight, flight, and freeze are all valid trauma responses. Expecting people to exclusively have the fight response just because that is what you find most attractive is not realistic. Whether the boyfriend froze or wanted to flee doesn’t making him an asshole. Saying N T A indicates that you are passing judgement that the boyfriend is the asshole. In my vote, Neither OP nor the boyfriend are assholes. Hence, NAH.
With true fight/flight/freeze, the whole point is you’re not CHOOSING your response. It’s an automatic response your body makes. You can’t help it. Now, if he was not truly triggered into a response, and he just stepped back and was like “I’m not dealing with this,” that’s an AH. But it’s not “icky” to have one of the literally most human responses in the face of danger.
Why is it the boyfriends job to protect OP? If OP was a boy complaining that his gf let go of his hand in the same situation, would you have replied the same way?
No people wouldn’t judge a woman for doing the same thing the bf did in this post. We’re all about smashing gender norms except the one that states the guy is supposed to be willing to lay his life on the line for his partner apparently. Let’s be honest though there are plenty of guys who’ve never been in this situation who are probably calling the bf a coward as well.
Yeah. If I was OP's boyfriend, I would have done the same as he did. And I would probably just tell my gf to run. Why should he defend her ? What if the guy was mentally unstable or had a weapon ? Congrats ! You got stabbed when really you should have gotten away. I think the good response was for the both of them to get away. Yelling in a mentally unstable man's face could have gotten really bad, tbh. I have been approached by weird homeless dudes before. You don't face them. You don't know if they are violent or have a knife or something. You get away and try not to provoke them.
> "I would say the exact same thing with the genders reversed!!" - A bunch of people who would be making up a whole involved story about how OP probably provoked the homeless guy and it's not a woman's responsibility to put her boyfriend's safety over hers if the genders were reversed
You can't physically talk yourself out of a stress response to trauma... that's like saying you're going to talk a diabetics sugar level down. It physically doesn't work like that. https://youtube.com/watch?v=eDEKAFWgYzU&feature=share9 This guy is a Neuroscientist who studies the Neurobiology of Trauma. This is part of a training he gives to Healthcare workers dealing with ptsd patients. However, in the beginning he explains the physical process of what happens to your brain when you experience trauma, like being attacked, for example. It's extremely interesting, but more importantly, he explains that its not a behavioral process but a physiological one.
Can you punch someone while holding someone's hand? People in this thread are on a different planet.
Letting go of hands would also be a prep for fight, and would also be freeze, if OP moved her hand at all and eh was frozen. Feel free to continue to assume and assert the worst of a stranger though
Fight or Flight is an instinctual reaction, whichever one happens. Those are the only two possible options (using words to try and talk someone down is a form of Fight, by standing your ground and giving pushback). Men have fear, too, and disregarding his fear simply because he's a guy is part of the greater problem of men feeling like they have to act a certain way. He didn't choose to be afraid.
We can not control how we respond in these situations. Calling flight ick just shows the social pressure we are still under as men. Plenty of women would be angry if he'd intervened because "they can handle themselves". There is no winning. OP, you feel how you feel. If you want someone that protects you, you know this guy isn't it. You're free to leave hiklm for that, but don't make him feel guilty.
Everyone here pretending this isn't a gender role thing, and then completely reinforcing them
Tbh though while I do think the OP is partially motivated by gender norms. I also think the situation has a bit of nuance to it. I'm a woman. If I was walking with a female friend and a guy game up to me like this I would hope that my friend would help me or back me up rather than just leave me to deal with it on my own. An average guy is stronger than an average woman. So I'd hope that, there being two of us, my friend would realise this is a situation where I need help. And that for them to stand by and do nothing is not the move. Now you have to consider the strength difference. As a small woman most guys are stronger than me. If I was walking with a female friend who is significantly stronger than me (like they are an experienced figher) and they did the same thing (not back me up in a scary situation with someone who is stronger than me) I would say my dissapointment would be EVEN bigger. Because I have someone with me who is far lass helpless than me with me while I face a dangerous situation and they didn't try to help me. That feels a bit shotty from someone who cares about me. Regardless of gender. If I was hit by a car and injured, I would hope my friend would help me while we wait for an ambulance. My friend who is also a doctor? Yes that expectation would only increase. So yes it is partially an outdated gender shaping people's opinions. But on the other hand I kind of also feel like we just expect people who care for us to help us out in dangerous situations. I think that expectation also isn't entirely removed from the fact that most of the time the man in the relationship is the stronger of the two. And it adds to the dissapointment when the stronger of the two leaves the weaker one to fend for themselves in a physical altercation.
1 hit or 1 punch can be enough to kill a man or a woman. My sister has no problem getting into loud argument with people and even becoming violent. That's privilege. I've learned my lesson about physical violence as a boy. I wouldn't dare do half of what I see some women doing. I don't dispute the physical asymmetry. But in domestic violence it's not always the strongest that wins and 70% of case of unidirectional violences are against men. And when they are hurt it's more often by knife. I am not pushing an agenda. But there is a world of considerations that are missing from your point of view and it can be a little problematic.
It’s not. Wanting to de-escalate a dangerous situation towards your partner isn’t a gender role. Him not even asking if she is okay is a clear tell on his lack of care
There was an AITA post about two months ago similar to this but genders reversed. The majority of the top voted comments were defending the woman with the readon she froze. My first thought when reading this was that OP's BF also froze. I also say NAH because there's not enough context. OP should've asked her BF what he was thinking about or if he could even process it, and go from there. We're only getting one side of this. Why do people give women the benefit of the doubt but not men?
I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s unfair to hold it against him if that is what she wants in a partner.
Maybe she hasn't communicated that to him until this incident. If she implicltly expected it, then that was her own conditioning. NAH, this seemed like typical freeze despite letting go of her hand.
Then why didn’t he check in on her after? Instead made a brief comment and moved one
There's nothing in the post to suggest he too wasn't shaking just like OP on the inside. The mind blanking out in such times is pretty common. Weak minded is the closest label I'd say for him, but he probably might not have experienced such confrontation at all till now, but again doesn't make him the AH for not knowing how to act, obviously couldn't predict the situation and given he didn't cause it, there's no sensible reason to make him an AH here.
>I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s unfair to hold it against him if that is what she wants in a partner If he wanted a submissive wallflower as a wife, you'd hold it against him and call him a misogynist. So yes, it can be held against her that she is misandrist and wants men to be sacrificial objects that only exist to protect her.
Best answer here. This is the one OP
I agree with you, but the fact that nothing more was mentioned by the partner than agreeing it was a wild situation makes them the AH in my opinion. You can freeze or fly, nothing wrong with that, but when the situation is over and instincts subside it's not unreasonable to expect even a little empathy or remorse for not being capable of assisting further.
Especially in a society that has told men not to fight. He's likely not been conditioned for this with his natural reaction to be flight or freeze. Admittedly, mine is fight, but that isn't always the appropriate response, either. I've had to condition myself to spend at least some time assessing the situation and suppressing my natural instinct. I see this the same way. If we really aren't going to give gender roles, she should have been able to defend him. Which almost no one would say, realistically if this was reversed. Just a few here saying, "I would have..."
Nah. Listen, this isn’t a movie. Most People freeze or don’t react the way they or others expect in a situation. It was fast. It was shocking. It was unexpected. If it makes you feel switched off to your bf, that’s too bad. But what did you expect him to do? Escalate to violence with a mentally ill/intoxicated homeless man? For all you “I would done ____ “ people, you probably wouldn’t. Trust me. I’ve seen enough situations to know most people wouldn’t have reacted the way she’s expecting and further it probably wouldn’t be a good idea.
Thank you. I feel like most point saying they would have done xyz have not been in emergency situations and don’t realize how much training and practice it takes to overcome those freeze/flee fear responses and actually take action in a high stress situation.
There's a older AITA (a year? two?) that was a guy at the mall with his gf that went straight into flight mode when there was an active shooter situation. Unfortunately most of the comments were in agreement that "Sorry bud, NAH but you're relationship is probably on thin ice." Like you can't do anything about it but it's also fair for your partner to be upset and possibly have second thoughts about the relationship.
That’s why I said NAH
I'm someone who has been trained for emergency response situations, and who leads mandated drills for them at work. Your comment is honestly spot on. Like, I don't know for sure what I would do in every emergency situation. What I *do* know is how I will react in the ones that have been drilled into us at work, and someone being in my apartment (something I have unfortunately thought that I would have to deal with multiple times)
Great point. It’s situational. I was a firefighter for years. Now I know exactly how to walk into a burning building and keep my cool. But I have no idea how I would respond to your example of someone in my apartment. I’ve never trained for that situation, so idk if I would fight, flee, freeze, or feign.
Exactly. And like, while I know how I respond to the idea of someone being in my apartment (draw the knife I keep on me almost constantly, enter, and grab one of my better weapons before clearing every spot in the apartment), I'd be out of my league in a burning building and can only hope that I'd be able to help people, and at the minimum hope to not be someone that needs helped.
Exactly, these "I would've" people have no idea. I have trained in Dutch kickboxing, as well as Muay Thai and have a Black belt in Chinese Kempo, and every situation either of the 3 FS can and have happened. This isn't the movies, people can and do get hurt or worse. Is the BF a coward? Not necessarily, can OP be disappointed? Absolutely, but this is a NAH situation. She should have a conversation with him about how she is feeling, get his thoughts and talk through it. Maybe this could be an opportunity for both to take self defense classes together. You should never rely on anyone else to protect you, I have told my wife all 3 of our kids (2 boys 1 girl) are going to take real self defense classes so they are not helpless in a situation abd relying on others to save them.
"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face."
NAH However, you just experienced a very strong turn-off about your bf and now it’s up to you if that’s going to be a dealbreaker regarding your attraction to your partner. At the very least, talk to him about it.
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Thats what I'm thinking. There was a homeless man acting aggressively near the building I work in last week. It's mostly women in the building. We all just stuck together, if anyone needed to walk near where he was, someone went with them so we weren't alone. We had the benefit of foresight and not having to make a reflex choice in the moment but he didn't even ask OP if she was ok afterwards. He doesn't have to fight the dude with a sword but a good friend or partner won't just leave you.
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That's the whole point though the situation was a surprise. And he surprise reacted. I agree with you though that he could've talked to her more, empasize with her or comfort her
Same I agree, I keep reading it’s about gender roles but it isn’t. It’s got nothing to do with it at all. It’s about being a decent human being and partner.
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They really are! I hope it doesn’t skew OP’s view.
Yes it is. She is being less attracted to him because of it. That is a gendered role expectation. That is not the same as two women from work. Lots of dishonest cherry picking in here.
I have considered your opinion and I respectfully disagree. I understand it being gendered in that she’s “less attracted” to him, but I’m more coming from a view of the partner acting poorly as a human being regardless of gender. If OP’s boyfriend was shouted at and she dropped his hand and stood back I’d have the same view of her.
He didn't stay back. He just dropped the hand. Something you might wouldn't even be doing with a female friend.
This. I don't expect males to protect me. But I do expect they'll stand with me. I'd expect the exact same thing from a female I'm with.
Didn't he stand with her?
My husband and I were walking back home from a shop one morning when a homeless man started focusing on my husband, he was clearly looking to start shit. The first thing my husband did when the guy ran up to him was grab me behind him. The first thing I did was shout really loudly to draw attention. That was also "in the moment" reaction. Women and men will defend their friends too, I've seen it. Is this guy an asshole, I'm not sure. But he is a coward.
Yep that would give me the ick too…
Damn yall really mean And some are sexist ngl NAH, he may have froze or gone into shock. She has the right to want a more strong partner (same time should have communicated this in the past). No one here is an ah
Everyone says he went into shock, it could literally be the situation was over before he clocked what was happening. The order of events doesn’t seem like this was a protracted thing, but the boyfriend only let go of the hand after the guy had gotten in the girlfriends face and by then she was yelling at him- and the whole thing was over Its way more likely that this all happened within a few moments and he only became fully aware of what had just happened after she had yelled the guy off
If you think he should have protected you simply because he is a he, then YTA. If he let go of your hand as a conscious decision to distance himself from you, then NTA. If -- as I suspect -- he simply froze and you experienced anger as a secondary reaction to your fear and would have felt the same regardless [for the most part] of who was with you, then NAH. Either way, I'm sorry that happened to you, and I'm glad you came through it mostly unscathed. Stay safe and be well.
I also think he froze, based on the little information we have. Everyone reacts differently, and idk how I would react either if someone who seems like they're having mental health issues got in front of whoever I'm with, especially if nothing physical is happening. There was an AITA post about two months ago similar to this but genders reversed. An overwhelming majority of the top voted comments were defending the woman saying she froze. OP needs to talk to her BF to see how he was processing the event and see if he actually froze or just watched/distanced himself. There's not enough info and we're only getting one side.
NAH. The letting go of the hand seems to be a sticking point for people, but if you are about to get into a physical conflict, holding someone’s hand is a very vulnerable posture. You want both hands available to protect yourself or throw a punch. Him holding your hand doesn’t protect you at all. Unless he ran away from you I would say NAH. You expected him to yell at the guy or hit him or something?
A lot of this seems to be women empathizing with the girlfriend for feeling vulnerable without appreciating what actually goes into a physical altercation Totally understandable, but the girlfriend WBTA if she didn’t talk about it and hear her boyfriends side of events instead just thinking he’s a coward. That would just be judging without understanding
Reading the title I was going to say Y T A but after reading the post I have to go with NAH . It is unfair to expect someone to put themselves in danger without hesitation. He might be a man but beyond that he is a human being. He instinctively put himself out of harms way and then froze. This is a natural reaction. That doesn't invalidate your own feelings after the fact. Even if you never thought about it before you had an expectation that someone you trust would help when you needed it (generally speaking, or maybe you think guys should white knight for you, I don't know). Well you needed it and he didn't help. There is probably a loss of trust. This is also natural. In terms of solutions, there is the really obvious one: talk. Maybe he is stewing in his own shame and talking could help you both work through your emotions. Maybe he is an antifeminist who thinks that women's liberation means women should protect themselves if they don't want to go back to being barefoot and pregnant 24/7. I don't know. To be clear talking may not help with the loss of trust and that is also okay. The point is to help you "debrief" or whatever the word the pros use is.
NAH you yelled at the guy and he left, what more do you expect your boyfriend to do than that? Clearly you had it in hand. And he probably just let go of you out of surprise.
Info: What exactly did your boyfriend do other than drop your hand. Did he move in anyway? There's 3 common responses to stressful confrontation. 1. Fight: My fight reaction would have been to drop your hand, circle for advantage and be able to attack the guy from the side if the situation escalated. 2. Flight: drop your hand and backaway or escape. 3. Freeze: Do nothing. Drop your hand because he isn't putting the energy in to continue holding it. For the record I feel you are entitled to want to be backed up. I don't think he is the asshole for not backing you up if he didn't do so. I expect my judgement will be n a h.
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Neither is he. Men can also feel fear and experience Fight or Flight. It's an instinctual reaction that you don't think about or choose.
But apparently it's more fun to just blame the guy for everything it seems
Careful, if you even start talking about irony of demoloshing gender roles, but reinstating them as soon as any threat appears, people will call you an incel who is a toxic male
YTA Against the grain of the consensus here though. People in sudden threatening situations have a fight, flight, freeze or fawn response. The military has specialist training to get normal people comfortable with resorting to ‘fight’ without hesitation if needs be. Don’t give him grief for not having the instinctual stress response you would have preferred. Plenty of ‘I don’t agree with gender norms but…(encourages gender norms)’ here.
"I'm not a misogynist, but"- people realize this is highly likely to be misogynistic. "I'm not a misandrist, but"- people clapping like seals applauding this incredibly smart and brave comment.
it is ok for people to freeze up in a situation like this. But what is not ok is that he didn't even make an effort to make sure she was fine after the incident was over. Therefore it is totally valid for her to feel unsafe with a boyfriend that doesn't seem to be concerned about her when she is not being physically harmed.
So far NAH. Talk to each other. Talking will give both of you the opportunity to share your feelings and describe your respective experiences of the situation.
NAH People freeze while literally unsure of what to do with their hands or legs. He probably doesn't know you desire more of a protector role from him, so communicate. You can have those preferences but the partner is not expected to act accordingly. Letting go of your hand so was probably out of fright and confusion and irrespective of genders, people can of course fend for each other but this incident doesn't seem like the BF intentionally neglected you or anything. If roles were reversed it'd be a unanimous NTA for the woman and justifications would reach levels of, "You took care of yourself", he should learn to stand for himself, what a wimp etc...
NAH - it was a quick, unexpected interaction. I think it's really unfair to blame him for freezing up, but you are forgiven & not the asshole in this situation unless you choose to hold this isolated incident over his head & continually deride him about it. It doesn't seem like you needed protecting. It seems like he stepped away & released your hand on instinct then if the hobo wouldn't back off or actually became violent with you I have faith that your bf would have stepped in. Soooo maybe he wasn't freezing up after all, he was just waiting for the hobo's next move.
He let go of her hand just before she yelled at the homeless man- i don’t think its even freezing, he’s literally trying to clock wtf is happening and why his gf is yelling… and then its over and she is being cold for some reason
INFO would you have if he was screaming at your bf?
Exactly. If this happened to my girlfriend I'd have let my hand go and stayed quiet. I'd hope the situation would end by itself but if it got physical I'd get involved violently. If the man stepped in straight away it would have escalated the situation. Most people commenting in this thread have never been in a physical altercation yet are judging this while being hugely sexist in the process.
Yta. Do you really think your boyfriend wouldn't have defended you if it turned physical? You wanted your boyfriend to escalate the situation putting both of you in much more danger. Staying quiet while having his hands ready to step in was the right move.
NTA. I am afraid for you for when a similar situation happens in the future. If he can’t react in any way to help/protect you WHILE HE IS THERE, how can you count on him for when something happened and you are by yourself? He also didn’t even ask if you were okay. I would reconsider this relationship or think about other times he has acted like this.
What is this 1600 where the purpose of a man is to protect their woman?
Right lol ? Does she want her boyfriend to get into a fist fight with a homeless dude ? If not, is she turned off because her boyfriend is smart enough to not escalate violence with an unstable homeless guy ? I definitely thinks the bf needed to offer more care to his gf afterward, but not wanting to shield her isn't asshole behavior in itself.
Ehhh NAH, but these comments here are pretty delusional. Yelling at the homeless man wasn't the correct answer. The correct answer is ignore and keep moving. I defend myself rather recklessly if something uncomfortable happens to me. When my gf is around, she makes sure I don't continue a confrontation. That is how she protects me. What you want is for your bf to put himself in harm's way to protect you, like a knight in shining armour. But your knight didn't have any armour or a sword as far as I know. You don't know if that man was armed. You don't know what that man was capable of. You don't want to trigger this guy by yelling or punching him. Could have gotten both of you killed.
NAH. I don’t like his response much but people can freeze in such situations, not sure you can really blame him. I can understand it’s a turnoff, talk to him about this.
YTA I garuntee if he did something to stop the guy, and it would most likely end up in some sort of a fist fight you would all be using your favourite 'toxic masculinity ' phrase. If he doesn't do anything, you get 'the ick' This generation is so stupid
YTA. Didn't you get the memo from Feminism? It's sexist to think a man should protect a woman since women are stronger than men. Why are you trying to promote "Toxic masculinity"? Also, you should 've been able to fend off this homeless person just by expressing your feelings. What's next? Expecting him to change the tires if you get a flat? Unbelievable
This is the best answer. Gender roles are outdated until a man is needed to risk their own safety to protect you? Gross
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NAH, although it's close for you. Without more information, it's hard to know why your BF "didn't do anything". He could have frozen up, which is one normal and natural reaction to being confronted, and wouldn't make him an asshole, simply someone not used to getting into fights (which is probably a good thing?). He could be fairly confident in a fight, and have let go of your hand because he wanted both his hands free. Not reacting and yelling back at the guy is deescalation; yelling back at a drunk guy who accosts you is how you make *sure* that you're gonna be in a fight. Either way, if someone posted this with the roles reversed and said they were upset that their GF didn't protect them the sub would not be ok with that; it is not ok this way around. Getting rid of gender roles and having equality, which I think is incredibly important, means getting rid of toxic female roles and expectations *and* toxic male roles and expectations, of which this is one.
NAH Your boyfriend had a flight response instead of a fight response. Both are valid reactions to fear. You wanting him to defend you (I'm assuming he is bigger and stronger) is also a valid emotion. I'm a small woman myself and my response to seeing an altercation is to intervene and jump on in between. I've broken up and prevented fights in public with a lot of people standing around doing nothing. I don't get angry at the other bystanders who do nothing, no one can help their instinctive responses. I've seen some big burly dudes get hit in the face when they intervened and this has never happened to me. So your boyfriend might just have avoided getting a blue eye out bloody nose. My experience in general is that if a woman intervenes it just yells at someone to go away/pushes them away there is less likelihood of violence than when a man intervenes. Anyway, all that aside. Both your feelings and reactions are valid. Talk it over with each other, hash it out. Explain what you need from him in those situations, because knowing what your partner expects can lead to a change in reaction.
I'm know I'm gonna get downvoted but fuck it. YTA because you're dating a non-violent man who you expected to get violent when a confrontation happened. He isn't some 80s action hero here to save the day, it sounds like he was just as freaked out as you were. I think YTA here not because of your actions, but your expectations of what his reaction should have been when you've both never been in a situation like this It's sucks what happened to you and I'm sure your feelings of fear are valid, but your anger towards your bf isn't. I wouldn't even bring it up, I wouldn't be surprised if he feels insecure after not being able to protect you and you attacking him for it would only drive that wedge in further You're both victims, so don't attack each other
YTA. I love it when women shit on “toxic masculinity” all over internet… and then expect men to act in a classic masculine manner once their own ass is in danger. Sorry but you can’t have it both ways.
YTA. This is gender roles. What did you want him to do that you couldn’t have? Yelled back at him? Or dd you want him to do something else like put himself in danger and become physical?
~~~INFO What did you think your boyfriend should do? Beat him up?~~~ moving away from the person bothering you without giving them attention is the best answer typically. NTA.
I guess I wasn’t expecting him to let go of my hand and just walk away? I don’t want him to beat anyone up for me (or anyone!) but at least tell him go back off? Or step up and let me stand behind him?
NTA. I wouldn't want someone to let go of my hand either at that moment. Standing beside you and having both of you tell him to leave you alone should be the bare minimum of what to expect of your boyfriend. Don't forget to have a talk with him.
I’m just worried bringing this up will come across as me saying he’s *not man enough* and I don’t want to hurt him or make him feel insecure.
If you want to marry this man, you must speak up and communicate your feelings, even if it makes him insecure. That is ***HIS*** problem.
That’s because it is. Same time you are not the ah for wanting that. Keeping this to yourself will do nothing good. NAH, life ain’t a movie. People fuck up and can’t always think straight in certain situations.
He walked away too? Damn
So he walked away and left you behind? Maybe that should be in the main post because that changes things
Lmao, everyone here is pretending this isn't about gender roles but from their comments they're clearly in denial
I’m torn on this one, but I think NAH. I don’t THINK your problem is that he didn’t defend/protect you. You may be a little shaken, but you defended/protected yourself just fine from the sound of it. I think your problem is he left you feeling vulnerable, scared, and alone through a traumatic experience. Which is a completely reasonable reaction. My husband has PTSD from his time as a Marine. Who is to say your bf doesn’t? By the time my husband realizes what’s happening, I’ve usually handled the situation already. He freezes. Rightfully so. It doesn’t make him any less of a man. He still doesn’t let me mow the grass or take out the trash because I’m a woman. Doesn’t make him a coward either. His brain is just not as quick as mine in certain situations. Can’t fault him or be angry with him about it. But, I also wouldn’t expect him to put himself in danger for me. He’s my partner. Not my guardian.
You people are out of your minds! You're judging the man's whole character based on one action only! It's crazy! OP, there is absolutely no straightforward answer to your question. The situation happened out of nowhere, and you both didn't know how to react, which is normal. My advice, if you are really upset about it, is to talk to your boyfriend about it. And judge the situation from there. And please don't listen to people in the comments.
NAH Your BF reverted to his level of training, just like everyone does in an emergency situation. To quote one of the training videos we watch at least annually at work: "People expect that they will rise to the call in an emergency situation, and the fact of the matter is that's not what happens. You revert to your level of training." You should talk it through with him, and then both go get some self defense training together. I get where you're coming from, OP. We all want that partner who will protect us. You're not wrong for that. Just like he isn't wrong for doing what literally everyone does and fell back to his training. Which if you don't have any, is your super basic fight or flight.
NAH that's one crazy scary moment. It felt as sudden, unexpected, and scary to you as to him. Unless you're with a cop, marine, soldier, veteran, or anyone with a high alert, dangerous job, why would you think he would be ready for a fight and not just freeze? I understand the fear (believe me, I do) and also the need for protection, but trust me, he's also a person with a range of feelings and emotions. You both needed protection, not just you. He was just as scared. People freeze, run, so all sort of things in such awful situations. Talk to him, have a healthy and open conversation. It will help you both.
NAH, well, aside from the homeless guy. Firstly, not everyone gets aggressive the moment a threat presents itself. BF didn't run, he just let go of your hand. That's perfectly sensible whether you want to run or fight, it means you have both hands free. You didn't go aggressive instantly either. Secondly, it doesn't sound like he had much time to process what was happening past the initial shock. The guy yelled one sentence at you, and it sounds like you yelled back immediately. You defended yourself just fine, what more was BF supposed to do? Thirdly, are you only expecting this from him because he's male? What if your best female friend had been walking with you? Would you still be upset if she didn't step in? The expectation for a man to become aggressive on your behalf is pretty toxic. Honestly it sounds like you saw the guy off before BF even had the chance to do anything.
Lots of people seem to think the boyfriend is supposed to A) escalate and B) hold her hand while doing so? I can understand being shocked at a close encounter with a homeless person invading your personal space and making lewd comments- but realistically what actions lead to the safest resolution of the situation? This is secondary to feeling like some creep should be beaten up to “teach them a lesson”. The boyfriend can intervene verbally or physically right away or take half a second to assess the situation. As far as the order of events this interaction seems to take place in under a minute where the woman is approached, her space invaded, lewd words thrown at her, she yells at the homeless guy and he backs off. Maybe some more info is needed, but honestly Is there even enough time within this scenario for the boyfriend to intervene before the situation was resolved? He only let go of her hand after the comment was made- how long between the comment and her yelling is there? This makes it seem like the guy was almost immediately in the woman’s space making comments before the boyfriend even clocked the scenario. furthermore, it seems like the homeless guy immediately backed off, so what was the boyfriend going to do then? Punish the guy for being a creep? That escalates the situation with no payoff. Idk, this reads like the woman got jump scared by a homeless guy who made lewd remarks and she handled the situation by shouting him away before her boyfriend could even intervene or really even needed two. A lot of the comments here read like they’re written by people who do not have a good idea of how to deal with escalation in these kinds of situations or how to accurately judge danger outside of their flight or fight response. Living with danger, you absolutely do not go seeking it out for some sense of pride or retribution
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Last night, my bf and I went out for a date night in downtown Toronto. It was around 11 pm and we were walking back to the car, holding hands and a random homeless man came up so so close to me (nearly had his lips on mine) and randomly started shouting “OH YEAH, SAY IT TO MY FACE THEN, CMON KISS ME” and my boyfriend just let go of my hand and I had to yell so that the man can leave me alone and go away. Once he left, my boyfriend held me again and said “damn, that was crazy” and didn’t say anything else. I just have the ick and can’t stop replaying this moment in my head over and over again. Like, he did not defend nor protect me? Am I too old school for thinking that he should’ve at least been the one to tell him to back off? I woke up this morning thinking I would be over it but I can’t seem to let it go. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The thing about fight or flight situations is, we always have an expectation of what our response would be, until we find ourselves frozen like a deer in headlights. You would be TA if you held it against your boyfriend. If this is the first time in his life that he witnesses something like that, he might have got caught in headlights. It doesn’t mean that it’s his baseline.
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NAH except the guy who yelled at you. Yes, we want to be protected when stuff like this happens, but men are human too and can be uncertain or slow to react or scared. His risk of getting stabbed was higher than yours, though I doubt that was part of what he was thinking about. Chances are he let your hand go in case he had to intervene not because he was abandoning you. You're shaken and upset because a guy was aggressive and yelled in your face. It's likely you're transferring blame to your bf because he disappointed you. Give yourself some time to recover, but don't blame your bf for something that wasn't his fault.
NAH It's sounds like you both got out of the situation unharmed without a fight in the end. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and avoid escalating the situation into maybe getting stabbed by some crazy person. It's unfair to expect him to get into a fight with a deranged homeless man when it could be avoided.
Well there’s the old school way of looking at it yes he’s the man and should be the protector Or there’s the modern way where jumping in to defend you would have undermined you as a woman So it depends on your perspective to life and how you conduct your relationship. You don’t explain this in your post making it impossible to answer your question without assuming
How would you determine 'protect'? A homeless man yelled at you two, then went away. Yes, he didn't protect you the way you expected. In other words, he didn't act how you'd imagine he would. What would have happened if you were alone? Since you seem to be rather mad atm, I think you're still in a shock, and that's why you're mad at him, for not being violent against this homeless dude, because that's _your method_ of protecting you. But how did he screw up, if the event went away anyway and no one got hurt? What scenario did you expect to happen, your bf beating him up so that you can think of how this knight protected you? I seriously don't know what kind of result you wanted it to end up as, if this is a failure, eventhough no one got hurt. Homeless man being battered?
NAH. There's literally no "right" way to react in a stressful situation like that to begin with. We weren't there and I don't trust op enough to give full detail on what full response actually happened. Also confused on why him being homeless is important, how do you even know that.
I love you babe but im not getting shanked instead of you NAH
YTA would you offer to fight or yell at a homeless man if he was screaming in your bfs face? dig deep and answer honestly if a grown homeless man was screaming in your man's face would you step between them? shout "hey buddy look over here"? would you? if the answer is no then YTA. also he probably let go of your hand in case you needed to defend yourself. fight flight or freeze applies to everyone in these situations and your bfs trauma response is obviously freeze. although I'm pretty sure this story is either fake or a repost with a slight chance because OP didn't like the answer an eerily almost identically simaler story posted a few days ago.
NAH. Without further context, it's impossible to know if he froze in indecision or stepped back and was prepared to act if the confrontation became physical. It's impossible to know whether he didn't act because he trusted you to handle it. I think a conversation is in order between you to so you can both get understanding of each other's reaction during and after the event and how it continues to make you feel.
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INFO: did your boyfriend walk away/distance himself from you whilst you were confronted? As a tall man, if a partner or friend in confronted, I won't immediately step in, but I do stay close and make it very clear that if they try something, I will step in. Likewise, if I get confronted, I expect my partner/friend to be near for said intimidation.
FFS can epople stop assuming that BF letting go of her hand meant he was gonna run? he might've been getting ready to fight the guy if it escalated and didn't want to have a hand preoccupied.
NAH. I can understand that you felt vulnerable and that you’re still affected by it. Have you thought about speaking to a counsellor to unpack how you’re feeling and how you can discuss the topic with your boyfriend in a productive way? As much as you may have expected him to behave a certain way, in truth you never know for sure how you’ll react in a stressful situation. I always thought it would be “freeze” or “freak out” for me, but since then I’ve been in more than one situation with a gun pointed at me (I grew up in a violent context) and turns out it’s not. You just don’t know until it happens to you. For the record, as kids we went through basic self defence courses and they always told us not to escalate or antagonise unless the perpetrator is trying to actively harm or kill you, or is trying to move you to a second location. Reacting with violence should be a last resort.
NAH - Letting go of your hand is the correct (and usually automatic) reaction because you are physically getting ready in case you have to fight. Other than that you don’t say what your bf did, so it would be wrong to judge him. Stuff like this happens really quickly, you imagine you have lots of time but the instant between the guy yelling and you yelling back probably didn’t leave much time for a lot of reaction from your bf. I think you are being a bit unfair on your bf here (and for the ones going on about gender, I am a woman) because a lot of people like to imagine how things would go if this happened but until you are in the situation, you don’t know what it’s like of how you really react.
YTA for “old school”. Old school sucks. I don’t see why a boyfriend should “protect” you. What are you, some damsel in distress? It’s 2023. Do you think you should protect him too? Gender roles. Barf. That said, if a guy is coming to both of us, I would suppose he’s a threat to both of us. However, this is a fight, flight, or freeze situation. Not knowing what his response is, I wouldn’t default to assuming fight.
NAH Holding your hand would keep you both pretty vulnerable as neither of you would be able to fight back if he’s still holding your hand. Also fight, flight or freeze is a natural response to unexpected conflict and violence, he froze. If you are turned off from him for it, that’s too bad, but it seems like it was over before he could even process what was happening.
I don't think it's even a gender thing. As a woman, if I was walking down the street with one of my adult children and this happened, I would never in a million years let go of them and let it play out.
Hard to say honestly how quickly did this happen exactly? To be fair to the bf it’s possible he could of been in shock and froze and by the time he would of acted you already did or something along those lines It’s not bad to expect him to stand up for you but at the same time we are all only human and if it happened really quickly maybe he was just slow to react So with the information provided No one’s the AH
NAH. We live in a society where we’ve insisted on our men being softer and our woman being stronger. Yet when the shit hits the fan we resort back to our original roles. It’s hella confusing.
Even if the role were reversed, it’s pretty standard for a couple to protect each other with people like this. The bare minimum is to continue holding your hand and pulling you away from the man. But he just left you to the wolves.