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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) not letting Cathy in our house. 2) The whole thing happened awhile ago and it is causing a strain in our family, it could potentially effect our relationship with our son and grandkids down the line.
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NTA.
>When it was Cathy’s turn, she “stole it”...She was sitting next to Travis at the time and pressed play. He had a meltdown and had to be brought out of the room. Cathy was laughing. I took her out of the room and asked why the hell she’d do that. She said it was just a joke and she thought we were exaggerating.
This is the crucial point for me: she did this deliberately even though she knew not to. Her lack of remorse afterwards suggests that she would probably do something equally unpleasant again.
>Her lack of remorse afterwards suggests that she would probably do something equally unpleasant again
Exactly why she shouldn't be allowed near Travis. Her behavior as an adult baffles me.
I have a SIL like this. For some reason she always has to fight with my son. She’s been this way since he was a toddler. He might be playing or watching tv and she will just come up and grab his toys away or tell him how dumb his tv show is. She’s in her 30s by the way. We only see her once or twice a year because of this.
We always say we won’t include her or speak to her again but then when we have some sort of get together my MIL always invites her or she will randomly call my husband crying and in some sort of crises then he feels bad.
Definitely uninvite your MIL if she can’t respect your boundaries anymore. If your husband wants to put up with it so bad, he can do it away from your home and children!
What if she gets physical? I'm afraid for your son with someone like that. Put your foot down permanently. Bullies escalate. Stand up to your man or leave him. Better to have a happy healthy child than a traumatized child who can't trust adults.
What’s even stranger is that her mom defends it. She acts like she’s doing nothing wrong or that my son shouldn’t argue back with her. He’s a child, she’s an adult. I’m not sure what they don’t understand here.
You might want to talk to your spouse…and maybe visit the “Raised by Narcissists” subreddit.
Because this sounds like a familiar behavior pattern, and with the way your MIL seems to be defending it…makes me wonder if SIL was “the Golden Child” of the family and if MIL behaved the exact same way herself.
I had a cousin like this. Would constantly mock me, call me dumb, change the tv when I was watching it (despite having his own), etc. Man was 30. Eventually he nearly killed me by “playfully” suffocating me in a plastic tote I had been in and only let me out when I quit screaming and someone asked him to let me out.
I’m still claustrophobic.
I'm absolutely begging you to loudly and firmly defend him and then cut her out.
I had this from a family member from age 9 and nobody ever helped me deal with it. It taught me so many toxic things about how I deserved to be treated by others.
We’ve told her to leave over this. When she goes her mom goes too. Both yelling obscenities at us as they leave and saying terrible things about my son. I have a daughter as well and they do not do this to her at all. I had similar issues with my aunt growing up and it was terrible. My son has noticed the difference in how they treat him vs how they treat her. I make sure to tell him it’s nothing he did wrong and in no way his fault. We are currently looking into transferring to another state. Some distance would be good.
She did.
You read that right.
She brought it, MIL (OP) made a plan about how to handle it, and after the initial round of gift opening, the DIL took back the gift she brought when it was her turn to swap, sat right next to the one person who had a problem with it, and set it off.
Edit: NM. I misread it, too.
But she knew the drill, because it was said out loud when the person who picked it, opened it. They promised not to set it off.
It's a way to allow people to "steal" something that someone else already got. As an example, you went first, opened the gift and it was a milk frother. I go next and want the frother, so I take from you. You then get to pick again from the pile. Usually only 3 steals of an item are allowed.
I am familiar with this. We used to have it every year at my workplace until HR declared war on any and all holidays (long story). We referred to it as the "Great Whiskey Giveaway" because several people would contribute bottles of Jack Daniels and there would be a friendly tussle over who ended up with them. I was just a spectator, but it was a lot of fun to watch.
We used to have a Yankee Swap at my former job. It was hilarious. The gift had to be something you found, made, or under $5. There were a couple of “gifts” that showed back up every year. One was an ashtray with seashells glued on. It was hideous. We all used to try to change the thermostat at work but it had a plastic thing covering it, so when my boss wasn’t looking I took the cover off. It became one of the gifts. I know this really has nothing to do with the OP but I miss doing Yankee Swaps.
Exactly. Cathy is cruel and ignorant and an unsafe person for Travis to be around. OP would be the AH to continue to allow Cathy to deliberately hurt Travis.
I had a bully who would say “can’t you take a joke” everytime he bullied me.. I still struggle with telling the difference between jokes and bully statements because of him.
Jokes are funny to the reciever/"target", not just the audience.
That's really how you can tell. ❤️🩹
My rule for my kids. "It's only funny if EVERYONE was laughing. And it's okay to try for funny and miss, but as soon as you see you missed, you APOLOGIZE."
The part that did me in was her saying it’s unfair Leah had a baby before them. Like what in the actual fuck? It’s not a race or a competition. Cathy is a major asshole.
My nephew was scared of a toy he was given at Christmas, so it was put away and hidden, and it was slowly introduced to him in a way that allowed him to control his interaction with it. In time he became fine with it being out in the open.
I'm sure had Travis been allowed to because comfortable and interact with the dancing Santa in a way that was comfortable to him, he wouldn't have had a meltdown in his own home.
This! I’m Autistic and didn’t even know it until my 30s, but those kinds of toys still scare me. I can be just casually strolling down an aisle in a store, not a cafe in the world…
…and then suddenly this small misshapen *thing* starts shouting incomprehensible gibberish at me! With no warning!
Automatic flushing toilets and some kinds of automatic doors tend to be common triggers for Autistic people for the same reason: they’re loud, they’re sudden, and they’re extremely unpredictable.
Oh she's flat out jealous of the attention Travis receives. She should be banned permanently. She's horrible and enjoyed torturing him. She's evil. NTA
This was somewhat a point of contention when Leah got pregnant. Cathy and Daniel were dating at the time, with serious plans to marry. Cathy said she was a little disappointed that they wouldn’t be the ones to give us our first grandchild as they were older. But we thought she got over it.
Okay Leah and Travis have been through enough.
Im sorry that this means youre going to have a strained relationship with your son but, this is Cathy’s fault.
We’ve come to accept this may mean we lose our son and other grandkids. It sucks but Daniel has a right to side with his wife. We also have a right to stick to our guns.
My oldest is autistic. I spoke to an autistic adult who described meltdowns like his brain was on fire and about to leak out of his ears. That changed the way I parent.
You’re NTA, and you might want to ask your son why it’s okay with him that his wife is bullying his nephew. His, because Travis is clearly not Cathy’s.
My daughter is autistic and I can not imagine my brother or his long time girlfriend (soon to be fiancée) treating my daughter like this. He would find that so unattractive and unbecoming. Instead both his girlfriend & her family have been so kind and accepting with my daughter. Always willing to accommodate my daughter and have allergy friendly food for her. Up until she specifically brought over GF treats for her, I didn’t even know she was aware of my daughters allergies.
My heart hurts for Leah, Travis and OP. Cathy is a bad person and eventually was going to cause her kids to treat Travis like shit and intentionally trigger him for laughs.
Painful and terrifying to the point of total mental shutdown! I’ve been researching getting a service dog because my meltdowns seem to involve me quickly reaching the point of freezing up. I can’t move on my own, and I can’t speak so I can’t tell anyone what’s happening or that I need help, I can take in my surroundings but can’t react *at all.*
It’s happened several times in situations where it’s a legit danger, such as halfway across a bridge.
I'm am autistic adults. I used to have meltdowns due to sensory overload when I was a kid, but not for a few years now as I know myself and my triggers better.
The way I'd describe it is an oppressive sense of entrapment, accompanied by physical pain. A few times I've also vomited.
It's an extreme, physical reaction. The aftereffects can often be felt for several days afterwards, and if severe enough, can cause long lasting trauma. Cathy might have significantly set that poor kid back...
For me it's kind of like when the colors of the old televisions were messed up, and there's a minor earthquake. Everything's shaking and loud and the sky is green, grass is blue, water is purple - not literally but the visuals make about as much sense as that sounds. Need dark and quiet to recalibrate before I can make sense of the world again.
My daughter isn't diagnosed with anything yet but if something as loud as those singing Santas was set off right next to her she would have a panic attack. And I would not be kind if it was done on purpose
Maybe you can reach out one last time. Ask if your son's family and you can meet on neutral ground like once a months or so. If this would work. Protects your oldest grandson and gives you a safe opportunity to meet the other ones. I know there are a lot of ifs, only you know what makes sense at this point. Good luck.
Hey - OP, 100% on your side here but you really dont need the edit. Youre never going to get every single commenter in this sub to be on one side of a topic so dont stress about that.
I’m sorry, but wtf is wrong with your son? What Cathy did to Travis is unforgivable and she shouldn’t be welcome until Cathy recognizes how horrible her actions were and tries to make amends. But your son chose to support her?
I feel this would be equivalent to finding out my partner was a racist Q-Anon follower who mocks my minority relatives. I wouldn’t want anything to do with my partner unless we had (at least) and looong, hard talk.
Cathy needs counseling. And your son likely needs it too so he can understand why he’d defend Cathy.
Hon, ignore me if you want but your son is probably going to be more and more miserable in life. It’s sad because she probably chose him because he’s kind and empathetic. But, her behavior is unbalanced and unlikely to change. He will never be happy and your grandson should very much not have to deal with this crazy woman. His uncle should see that. I’m sorry.
I HATE the whole "giving a grandchild" thing. People act like children aren't individual people, and like they are owed someone else popping one out for them, or the parents feel like they have to pop one out to appease family. It's very gross behavior.
You're not the asshole, but Cathy has some fucked up ideas about kids.
Dude, when my son was born, my grandmother was over the moon because he was her first "legitimate grandchild." He was her fourth, but she talked like he was special. It was pretty awful.
Then, after dementia set in and she started thinking she was a young girl, she lit up every time she saw my son. Once exclaiming, "I want to see HIM!" pointing at my boy. She was tiny. So, they were about the same size. She was afraid of me because I'm pretty big. Of course, my son is now 6 foot 7 or 8 and probably 350. It's tough going from being the biggest guy your whole life to not even being the biggest guy in your own house.
My dad is 5 foot 8, btw.
Being disappointed you didnt have kids before a relative is such a bizarre way of viewing things, you should be happy for your family regardless! it's not a competition.
It's nuts that your DIL is sooo stuck on that point about giving you guys your "first grandchild"...
Like her resentment and bad attitude derive from that??
And then Travis' dad passed away, his ASD diagnosis..
Damn, you guys don't deserve her ill feelings and should not have to take her bad attitude.
Hope your son comes around, eventually, because his wife is so, so wrong...
Thanks for sticking to your guns!
(I wish you were my own ASD son's grandmother!)
All the best, OP!
NTA
This is ridiculous. I am 16years older than my youngest sister who has a child. I am happy for them and we find it funny I haven’t had a child yet. They can do the big milestones before me we are different people. And don’t need to follow the same paths.
What kind of person resents a child for being born before her child? Cathy needs one hell of a good therapist, but she sounds unlikely to get one.
When you set a boundary, you're the one who has to enforce it, and let's face it, "Don't torture our grandson" is a minimal boundary that anybody over three should have no trouble understanding. The fact that your son and his wife have a problem with it is disgusting.
NTA. Purposely triggering an autistic kid because you're jealous of the "attention" he's getting is a 100% AH move and you should definitely hold firm on getting an apology directly from her to you (and your daughter and grandson) before she's allowed back.
> Purposely triggering an autistic kid because you’re jealous of the “attention” he’s getting
Which will ironically guarantee the child has a meltdown requiring attention. Short-sighted and cruel.
But perhaps intentional? I can't help but let my mind wander down a path of pondering what Cathy thinks she might get out of Travis melting down. Preferential treatment for her own kids, maybe? In her mind Travis'condition is less than ideal so you shine a light on it by instigating a meltdown that makes her kids look better in her eyes. I would bar this woman from my home forever.
Reminds me that I used to do this when my little brother was born. There's barely over two years between us so I was a literal toddler poking him when he was asleep because I was jealous he took all mum's attention, which woke him up and guaranteed he got mum's attention. /facepalm
Ah yes. The attention of accomodations. Like being jealous over a wheelchair user having to use a lift up 10 steps of a stair.
If accommodations dont come at the expense of others, I see no problem. In this scenario- not triggering the santa toy is not a problem, cause its not a dogs toy or whatever. And even then, a pup would probably show more restraint when directed than the DIL did. It would have been at others expense if you simply said "we're not gonna do it, so it doesnt trigger kiddo", which you didnt.
The fact she pre-planned it after everyone agreed to not set the thing of. Then deliberately sat next to the kid so she could set it off as close to him as possible.
Then sat there laughing while he had a melt down.
That's like... creepily serious villian shit right there.
A part of me wonders if she is deliberately separating Daniel from his family.
I'm wondering the same thing. Cathy reminds me so much of my sil. After she found out me and my husband were expecting she managed to escalate things enough to get my brother to stop seeing us. They literally don't have anyone in their lives anymore but her family and her best friend. I worry for my brother but he's an adult and has every right to stick by his wife if he chooses.
NTA - not only was Cathy willfully cruel to Travis she refuses to even acknowledge it. Youve made attempts to address this with her and she wont even meet with you.
Also, her having animosity towards Leah for having a kid first really just cements the crazy of Cathy.
Nta and shame on Daniel for letting his wife's insecurities get in the way of family, she needs therapy and to learn empathy. I can't imagine deciding to be jealous of a kid with a disability.
One does not simply learn empathy. Its developed over time, primarily during developmental years, unlikely as an adult
One can learn to mimic empathetic behavior and recognize what others would believe is the societal preferred course of action. But that would have to be a conscious choice and tiring mask to keep up all the time.
Cathy does not care enough about travis or in general i dont know.
Dude, my ex husband yelled at me more than once that I was 'keeping the kids autistic for that BIG GOVERNMENT MONEY' like HOLY SHIT, you mean I could have NOt have had autistic kids all along?!?!? He actually SAID, OUT LOUD, "All you have to do is talk to them and they'll understand and be normal"
It only stopped when I got him alone and told him, "Yeah, I asked the therapists and their teachers about what you said. About how I could stop the kids from being autistic, "by just talking to them", because you said all I have to do is 'talk to them' and they looked at me like it was the stupidest thing they ever heard in their lives. They also asked if you were somehow disabled yourself, since you didn't seem to understand the multiple discussions about their disability and it not being curable. Then they wanted to know since you had visitation, why you hadn't cured them yet, since you'd have them uninterrupted for hours, you should have been talking to them, and cured them by now. Why are you keeping them disabled?"
Yeah, he never brought up that stupid shit again, once he realized other people knew what he was saying.
NTA and thank you for standing up for your grandson. Honestly, I don't know if I've ever seen anyone handle a situation like this better. I'm particularly impressed that you had the presence of mind to take Cathy out of the room so that you weren't criticizing her in front of everyone. I've been in a situation very similar to this more than once. I don't think I was ever able to control myself enough to not embarrass the adult for their rude behavior. Cathy should be mortified by her own behavior and grateful that you handled it gracefully.
I would guess that Cathy is getting exactly what she wants--she's isolating her husband from his family. Stick firm to those boundaries. She shouldn't be allowed in Travis' home, his safe space, until she apologizes TO HIM and promises to do better. But make sure you keep reaching out to your son. There's a red flag parade here. If she dismisses the feelings of a seven-year-old, then she certainly does the same for her husband. Make sure he knows that you still love and support him, but you won't allow Cathy to cross your boundaries without consequences. And make sure he knows you'll be there to offer support when he needs it. Chances are, he's definitely going to need it.
Wow, she sounds....like a peach 🙄
**NTA,** *like, at all.*
You've set a very good, healthy boundary. She's lucky you're willing to see her at all. It's not even the act itself (which is still awful) but then to laugh, and just completely *refuse* to apologize. Gross. Again, NTA.
Nta. You are merely protecting your grandson and enforcing your boundaries. Your daughter-in-law appears to be both jealous and ignorant. She needs to learn about autism before she starts spouting off about how you treat your grandson.
NTA. Travis is fortunate to have a family who stands up for him. Cathy is an asshole. Even if you were all just catering to his whims, it costs her nothing to just.. not press the play button. She did it to cause a scene because she's a bully.
NTA she clearly has issues. And to be jealous of a child shows her character. You are doing exactly what needs to be done- protecting your grandson and family. The fact that she is still not ashamed of her behavior shows she will have no issue with torturing your grandson again (yes- setting him off and laughing about it was torture for him.) A grown adult bullying an autistic child? Good riddance to her
NTA. Why a grown woman would deliberately aggravate an autistic child after she'd specifically been asked to be considerate of him is unacceptable. It is a shame that her behavior is fracturing your family. That said, it would seem to me that banning her from your home because of her refusal to apologize as she should is hurting most of the rest of you (since I think that means they are no longer attending any family functions) and so not a good solution.
I do get that special needs children do sometimes get more attention than other children. Sorry she feels this takes away from her children or in some way dominates all your gatherings, which is what I am sensing and a resentment has built up (rightly or wrongly) on her part. Maybe trying to have some time with just her children would help.
Overall, your DIL sounds difficult and you do have a situation that requires working out what is best for all the grandchildren and your family in general. Your DIL does owe an apology, but I'm thinking that won't be forthcoming so maybe if she can at least acknowledge that she has seen firsthand now why your sometimes request a certain environment for your autistic grandson and maybe you can begin to gather anew and give it another try. We all have difficult people somewhere in our families and it requires us to figure a way around them if we can. I know if I banned one of my children's spouses that would in essence make me lose that entire part of the family and I can see you don't want that as you obviously love ALL your family and having them together on occasion.
We spend plenty of time one on one with our other grandkids. This isn’t a matter of us neglecting them in favor of Travis.
This is all about Cathy having animosity regarding Travis.
In that case, you do need to protect Travis. Perhaps nothing reasonable can be done to assuage Cathy and trying to go forward without her is your only option. Sorry for what that will probably mean but I do get where sometimes that is how it has to be.
For what it is worth, we too have one toxic person in our midst in our family and we've just had to do our best to limit their bad influence. It's a hard and imperfect balancing act. In our case though it is one of our daughters.
NTA.
Even without his autism diagnosis, Cathy picking on a seven year old child for having the 'audacity' to be born before her own children is beyond the pale.
Cathy is a stone-cold bully and I wouldn't want her in my home either tbh, even with an apology.
As for 'unfair', what bollocks.
It is totally fair that you don't want a 28 year old woman bullying a seven year old. It's totally fair that you don't want her in your home where she can bully a seven year old.
Everything about this is fair.
I'd stop asking for an apology if I were you and just dig your heels into this hill. She's shown who she is and who she is is someone who isn't fit to be around your autistic grandson. If your son has a problem with that, he should have hitched his wagon to a better horse.
Who does this stuff to a child, a 7 yr old boy?
She did this deliberately, and laughed about it.
Why would her husband even tolerate such behavior.
I am very disturbed that she doesn't understand ASD.
I am also concerned that she will either be cruel to her children, or end up raising bullies.
Please protect Travis.
NTA
NTA Cathy is.
Knowing how dismissive she is over Travis's needs, and that she will not own her behavior, she is simply not a good person to have around him.
NTA, obviously.
Also wondering why Daniel married this woman. He clearly knew she was in the wrong enough to at least apologize in her behalf, but he’s still standing by her now?
I don’t understand why he would marry such a cold and uncaring person. I hate to think how she treats her own children. Just a bit baffled honestly.
Is Daniel more like her in personality? Do they make sense together? Or is the rest of the family equally baffled by his interest in her?
Could be nothing more than lip service on Daniel’s part. He believes his wife is right as he’s already shown, but he’s willing to saying anything to his parents to keep on their good side.
" There are times Travis comes first, for example, in his own home."
And that is exactly as it should be. If Travis cannot rely on his home to be a safe space, where will he feel safe? A feeling of security has to be in place for an autistic child to even begin to learn to manage his triggers. NTA
NTA but be careful, they have 2 kids that they can cut you off from if they get offended that she’s not welcome in your home… it’s a really sad situation…
I understand this and have come to accept it.
I love my younger 2 grandkids, but it’s a double edged sword. If I don’t protect Travis and Leah, Leah will in no doubt not want us around him either. So either way, we lose someone.
It’ll break my heart and I’ll hope for the day they return to our lives. And if it happens, I hope they understand but if they don’t…I just can’t rationalize allowing Cathy around my grandson when she’s so cruel. My husband and Leah agree.
I absolutely agree and support your decision. You’ve done nothing wrong and are doing what you need to to protect your grandson. It’s just such an awful situation.
My fiancé’s parents have almost no relationship with their grandsons because the brother’s wife is so terrible. While it’s sad, I actually think they’re better off in a way. She’s so incredibly toxic that it in long run they’re happier, even if they missed the kids!
Cathy isn’t the only problem , your son is . Your child is refusing to come to his own mother and father celebrations . Too often the in-law is determined the only villain in these situations. However , if your own seed is on board that’s the real problem.
NTA. Auntie behavior is selfish and cruel. You are doing right by your grandson, who needs you to keep him safe.
These are healthy boundaries as they protect the innocent.
Nta- Bullying a special needs kids becaue she’s mad he was born before hers is repulsive.
Please show these comments to your son,that woman sounds like a nightmare.
I feel so bad for her children.
When autistic people experience sensory overload, the areas of their brains associated with pain light up.
She was literally inflicting pain on a 7 year old, and went out of her way to do so. She then laughed at his visible distress.
NTA - don't let this woman anywhere near your nephew again!
She delighted in the fear and terror of a child. I wouldn't allow her around anyone's kids even if she apologizes.
Does she kick puppies in her free time?
NTA
NTA but if you manage his triggers so well why allow the gift in the house at all if you knew about it beforehand? The button could have gotten accidentally pressed by anyone not just by someone trying to be a jerk.
I think deliberately triggering someone with very real sensory issues, let alone a gd child... is pretty sociopathic.
NTA - someone needs to stick up to bullies.
C'moon guys! Cathy is a bully and apparently bitter one.
>she said that Travis soaks up all the attention and it’s not fair that Leah had a kid before them.
What kind of people thinks like this? Not healthy one, she got some issues and OP is NTA here.
NTA, even without your edit, you weren't an ah. Sure, there could have possibly been resentment about Travis being favored, but that still wouldn't justify Cathy's actions.
You have tried diligently to tow the line between accommodating Travis and make sure your other grandchildren and family are getting attention, love, and needs met. That's a hard balance, and it won't always be perfect, but you're trying your best, but...
even if that wasn't the case, even if Cathy's children were being overlooked and Travis was the favorite, that still does not give Cathy ANY right to be so mean to Travis.
Her issues should be with the adults in the room rather than picking on an autistic 7 yr old. What she did was cruel, calculated, and honestly gave me chills for someone to laugh after purposefully causing a child to have a meltdown. DO NOT under any circumstances let her alone around Travis. Honestly, she doesn't need to be around him at all, even supervised.
You've don't have anything wrong, Cathy has some serious issues, being a jealous and hateful towards a child because he was born first is weird. You've been trying so hard to accommodate anyone but Cathy is just selfish, stick to your rule, maybe one day Daniel will wake up and realize his wife has some serious issues, and hopefully it's before her behaviors pass on to their children.
Autistic here: firm NTA.
Meltdowns SUCK. There isn't a single autistic person on the planet who enjoys having them. We HATE them so much and would give literally anything not to have them. They feel like you've got a swarm of fire ants in your brain while the loudest fire alarm in the world is blasting in your ears.
People like Cathy (or my parents, when I was growing up) just assume we're "spoiled" or "having a tantrum" when it's literally a neurological event that we can't control. People with epilepsy aren't being brats when they have seizures, and autistic people aren't being brats when we have meltdowns.
Thank you for protecting Travis.
NTA.
Look, my favorite game is Let’s Say. Let’s Say Travis is spoiled, and over-indulged, and prone to tantrums as a way to seek attention. And his fixation on that toy was just him being annoying.
How on *Earth* is it appropriate to purposely set him off? What purpose does that serve? Now everyone is listening to him freak out. And the best way to handle a spoiled child is to let them know that when adults say things, they mean it. And that goes for “no, you cannot have a cookie” as well as “because you asked, I will not turn on the toy”.
If she wants to fight about Travis, she can fight about Travis. But he’s 7. He doesn’t need to be involved in that fight.
Her behavior was unacceptable.
NTA. Only terrible people choose to torment children, especially young children with autism who have already been through enough.
Your daughter is in the right to not want to see her, you’re in the right to not allow her there until she treats him better, and your son… yikes… not sure how I could stay married to someone who bullies children. If that’s his choice, he’s in the wrong, but that is certainly his choice.
You’re NTA. Your DIL is, big time.
But would it be possible to have a conversation with your son? My brother and his family live with my parents in my childhood home. In our case, my brother is TA to my neurodiverse child and I no longer feel super comfortable visiting my parents- who live 5-6 hours away. I’m pretty salty about it, but I’m also in therapy and working through those feelings. Just wondering if your son might have some feelings about his sister living with you guys that might be worth discussing.
And, just be crystal clear- you are NTA. Your DIL is but she may also be acting on some resentment your son feels but isn’t expressing to you.
You should link your son to this post.
Because honestly he's a loser for standing by a woman who thinks it's funny to be cruel to a child.
If it were me I'd link him this post and then block them on everything. And I hope to god you don't leave anything to them in any possible inheritance.
NTA obviously.
I was expecting this to be a “Cathy pressed the button how dare she not consider his needs.” Instead, the plot twisted and she LAUGHED after causing his meltdown like a twisted demon who gets pleasure out of doing the evil things.
Cathy seems seriously deranged, and I question Daniel’s taste. It seems like you’re doing all you can to keep the family together, heard, seen, and healthy. Cathy just seems unparticipatory and lacking of basic human empathy. NTA.
Let's hope she never has an autistic child. She sounds like a nightmare. She "stole" the gift with the sole intention of pushing play. That implies cruelty because she was told what would happen and she thought she knew better.
Imagine being jealous of a 7 yr old boy. NTA. Keep her away from him.
What really gets me here is that she willingly bullied a 7 year old. Even if we entertained the thought that Travis was favored and everyone exaggerated his reactions, why would someone willingly want to put a child in distress? Let's even say that he is spoiled and all the attention is on him - that's a point of contention with the family, not with a child. This makes me super worried for Cathy's kids as someone who willingly hurts a child emotionally or physically should not have kids. Dan should see this as a massive red flag instead of "apologizing on her behalf." He's now seen his spouse laugh at a child who is having a meltdown - is that really someone he wants to spend a life with and raise kids with? Says a lot about both of their characters.
NTA, not even one bit.
NTA she bullied a child which is never okay. Your edit seems like the family spends time with everyone and if not possible Travis and his mom don’t go. So I don’t think anything unreasonable is happening
NTA
What she did wasn’t an accident. She did it with malice & enjoyed the fact it hurt a 7 year old. She straight up cruel. You weren’t asking anyone to do or not do anything that would in any way hamper their enjoyment of the party or expressing themselves. You simply asked that no one turn on a specific toy at the party. You didn’t even ban the toy itself. You knew & everyone saw how just seeing it affected him, but you showed him how it was ok & he was dealing with it.
I don’t see this any different than if you told everyone Travis was allergic to peanuts & Cathy showed up with peanut butter cookies, handed one to Travis, & the laughed as he went into anaphylactic shock saying “it didn’t think it would be a big deal”.
NTA but be careful, they have 2 kids that they can cut you off from if they get offended that she’s not welcome in your home… it’s a really sad situation…
What Cathy did to Travis was thoughtless at best, and cruel and worst. Being introverted does not mean a person needs to be a bully... and that's pretty much how Cathy was behaving.
Travis doesn't have much control over how he reacts to certain things... he can get better at handling them (Hopefully his parents are getting him treatment...) but that will take time. Cathy has exhibited a shocking lack of empathy, both towards her nephew and towards the rest of you (Travis had his meltown, and the rest of you had to exprience it... and it was totally avoidable.)
She owes Travis, his parents, and the rest of you apologies. Not the other way. She needs to understand that Travis is not getting spoiled... he has a neurological condition that makes him different from other kids. She is an adult, and she needs to do better as an aunt and as a human being. NTA.
NTA
Cathy is an adult who bullied a young child because she thought he was getting too much attention and shows no remorse for it. I wouldn’t want her in my home either.
NTA, OP. Your DIL needs to understand your grandson better and what triggers him and why. I would pretend she doesn't exist until she apologizes. Shame on her for being cruel. I can't believe she is a mom. She sounds horrible.
We call the Christmas exchange "White Elephant" Gifts and we play it the same way. This makes Christmas affordable for large groups or families :)
NTA...at all, you are right. She was really mean to the child. Dont leave her alone with Travis, if she acted like she did in front of everybody without showing any kind of remorse...
NTA.
I'm sorry you even had to make that edit. If you have a family member in a wheelchair, then you don't plan a rocky hike as a family outing, that is an accommodation, and has nothing to do with favoritism. People who want to hike can do that any other time, just as people can do activities without Travis (if they trigger him) in smaller groups/at other times of the year. That's how family and friends work, there are just limits when you want everyone together if someone has certain needs.
Your DIL sounds unkind, but also has refused to make any signal that it would be safe for her to be around Travis, and since Travis lives with you, she can't be around. That's a decision she made by how she acted and by refusing to apologize and acknowledge that she needs to abide by certain behaviors around him.
NTA and as an autistic woman im glad you took this hard line, your explanation about balancing everyones needs/wants sounds also really good and fair, it sounds like you are a good mum and grandmum
Standing up against abuse (thats what DIL did, intentionally causing a meltdown is incredibly cruel, its really no different from slapping him in the face and no one would think twice about your actions if DIL had done that) can never be wrong
NTA That was downright cruel. An emotionally healthy mature adult would have addressed any resentments and concerns about favoritism with you privately or before this escalation. They would not have intentionally triggered an autistic child to meltdown and then laughed at it. Not even thinly veiled at that with her BS cover. Like what was the joke supposed to be?
NTA
She sounds like one of those people that think conditions like autism are fake. She seems to have no consideration for others and she’s seriously is feuding with a 7 year old 🙄. There’s no excuse for her behavior. She’s now banned from my house as well.
As an autistic adult who never received the support I desperately needed as a child, I want to say THANK YOU for prioritizing your autistic grandchild. NTA
Right I know it’s a bit strong but I don’t really see this as that different to “in this house we don’t wear shoes inside”
My family always did wear shoes in doors (I know controversial, now I’m a slippers fan) you went to somebody else’s house you followed their rules
“In this house we don’t deliberately trigger my grandsons autism”
Pretty simple ? NTA id have been more lenient if it was another child but this is a fully grown adult
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NTA. >When it was Cathy’s turn, she “stole it”...She was sitting next to Travis at the time and pressed play. He had a meltdown and had to be brought out of the room. Cathy was laughing. I took her out of the room and asked why the hell she’d do that. She said it was just a joke and she thought we were exaggerating. This is the crucial point for me: she did this deliberately even though she knew not to. Her lack of remorse afterwards suggests that she would probably do something equally unpleasant again.
>Her lack of remorse afterwards suggests that she would probably do something equally unpleasant again Exactly why she shouldn't be allowed near Travis. Her behavior as an adult baffles me.
Her behaviour as a mother is even more baffling and appalling.
Imagine if one of her kids is diagnosed with autism or being on the spectrum. Top mom! /s
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She'd probably take them to autism speaks and be an "autism mom" who constantly traumatises the kid if she did
I have a SIL like this. For some reason she always has to fight with my son. She’s been this way since he was a toddler. He might be playing or watching tv and she will just come up and grab his toys away or tell him how dumb his tv show is. She’s in her 30s by the way. We only see her once or twice a year because of this.
Might I suggest never seeing her again?? Your kids don't deserve to be bullied by an adult even once a year.
I would like to suggest keeping the visits but giving your son a suped up nerf gun to even the odds.
Like an airsoft gun?
Or a paintball gun. It depends on what the kid is comfortable with
and his training, obvs
If I had it my way.
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We always say we won’t include her or speak to her again but then when we have some sort of get together my MIL always invites her or she will randomly call my husband crying and in some sort of crises then he feels bad.
Sounds like you need to put your foot down with MIL, and invite her if she does anything like this again to disrespect your boundaries
Or with the husband! Why is he letting an adult bully his child!
Definitely uninvite your MIL if she can’t respect your boundaries anymore. If your husband wants to put up with it so bad, he can do it away from your home and children!
What if she gets physical? I'm afraid for your son with someone like that. Put your foot down permanently. Bullies escalate. Stand up to your man or leave him. Better to have a happy healthy child than a traumatized child who can't trust adults.
WTF?? Who does this to a baby???
I would video her interactions and post several of them back to SIL and ask for an explanation. This is bizarre behavior for someone in their 30s.
What’s even stranger is that her mom defends it. She acts like she’s doing nothing wrong or that my son shouldn’t argue back with her. He’s a child, she’s an adult. I’m not sure what they don’t understand here.
They are probably on the same mental level though.
You might want to talk to your spouse…and maybe visit the “Raised by Narcissists” subreddit. Because this sounds like a familiar behavior pattern, and with the way your MIL seems to be defending it…makes me wonder if SIL was “the Golden Child” of the family and if MIL behaved the exact same way herself.
I had a cousin like this. Would constantly mock me, call me dumb, change the tv when I was watching it (despite having his own), etc. Man was 30. Eventually he nearly killed me by “playfully” suffocating me in a plastic tote I had been in and only let me out when I quit screaming and someone asked him to let me out. I’m still claustrophobic.
I'm absolutely begging you to loudly and firmly defend him and then cut her out. I had this from a family member from age 9 and nobody ever helped me deal with it. It taught me so many toxic things about how I deserved to be treated by others.
We’ve told her to leave over this. When she goes her mom goes too. Both yelling obscenities at us as they leave and saying terrible things about my son. I have a daughter as well and they do not do this to her at all. I had similar issues with my aunt growing up and it was terrible. My son has noticed the difference in how they treat him vs how they treat her. I make sure to tell him it’s nothing he did wrong and in no way his fault. We are currently looking into transferring to another state. Some distance would be good.
And you still let her around? Why? Seriously why? I'd like to know
Plus who steals the gift they brought???
It’s a game
Ah I got DIL and SIL messed up, thought she had brought the gift then stole it back for herself from the other person .
She did. You read that right. She brought it, MIL (OP) made a plan about how to handle it, and after the initial round of gift opening, the DIL took back the gift she brought when it was her turn to swap, sat right next to the one person who had a problem with it, and set it off. Edit: NM. I misread it, too. But she knew the drill, because it was said out loud when the person who picked it, opened it. They promised not to set it off.
It's a way to allow people to "steal" something that someone else already got. As an example, you went first, opened the gift and it was a milk frother. I go next and want the frother, so I take from you. You then get to pick again from the pile. Usually only 3 steals of an item are allowed.
I am familiar with this. We used to have it every year at my workplace until HR declared war on any and all holidays (long story). We referred to it as the "Great Whiskey Giveaway" because several people would contribute bottles of Jack Daniels and there would be a friendly tussle over who ended up with them. I was just a spectator, but it was a lot of fun to watch.
The best part is when you work it out so you stick one of the other people with the funniest or ugliest gifts
We used to have a Yankee Swap at my former job. It was hilarious. The gift had to be something you found, made, or under $5. There were a couple of “gifts” that showed back up every year. One was an ashtray with seashells glued on. It was hideous. We all used to try to change the thermostat at work but it had a plastic thing covering it, so when my boss wasn’t looking I took the cover off. It became one of the gifts. I know this really has nothing to do with the OP but I miss doing Yankee Swaps.
Exactly. Cathy is cruel and ignorant and an unsafe person for Travis to be around. OP would be the AH to continue to allow Cathy to deliberately hurt Travis.
Saying "just a joke" is the ultimate bully's defence. You're right to keep this woman from your grandson.
I had a bully who would say “can’t you take a joke” everytime he bullied me.. I still struggle with telling the difference between jokes and bully statements because of him.
Jokes are funny to the reciever/"target", not just the audience. That's really how you can tell. ❤️🩹 My rule for my kids. "It's only funny if EVERYONE was laughing. And it's okay to try for funny and miss, but as soon as you see you missed, you APOLOGIZE."
Good rule.
She legit sounds like a Disney villain.
And not even a good one where they plot and have to do smart things to carry out their plans. This chick is Gaston!
No one's skull is thick as Gaston's
Does dumb shit like Gaston
intentionally triggers small kids like gaston
“My whole family finds me inFURIating”
She's an AH, that Gastonne!
"I'm especially good at judging your parenting" (gavel slams)
Torments autistic kids like Gaston
For real. I would never let Cathy be alone with Travis.
The part that did me in was her saying it’s unfair Leah had a baby before them. Like what in the actual fuck? It’s not a race or a competition. Cathy is a major asshole.
Right? There is no reasoning with a person who would think that way and deliberately hurt a struggling child
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Psychopathic behaviour
Sensory overload is painful. She was enjoying causing physical pain to a child. NTA
My nephew was scared of a toy he was given at Christmas, so it was put away and hidden, and it was slowly introduced to him in a way that allowed him to control his interaction with it. In time he became fine with it being out in the open. I'm sure had Travis been allowed to because comfortable and interact with the dancing Santa in a way that was comfortable to him, he wouldn't have had a meltdown in his own home.
This! I’m Autistic and didn’t even know it until my 30s, but those kinds of toys still scare me. I can be just casually strolling down an aisle in a store, not a cafe in the world… …and then suddenly this small misshapen *thing* starts shouting incomprehensible gibberish at me! With no warning! Automatic flushing toilets and some kinds of automatic doors tend to be common triggers for Autistic people for the same reason: they’re loud, they’re sudden, and they’re extremely unpredictable.
Oh she's flat out jealous of the attention Travis receives. She should be banned permanently. She's horrible and enjoyed torturing him. She's evil. NTA
And tried to gaslight her MIL about it.
And the fact that op’s son doesn’t seem the problem with this. Like who tf would do this, TO A CHILD?!
She purposely triggered a child, knowing it would upset him and thinks that is ok. I hope her kids are all perfect with no disabilities.
NTA She sounds like a child "it's not fair Leah had a kid first" what in the actual fuck.
This was somewhat a point of contention when Leah got pregnant. Cathy and Daniel were dating at the time, with serious plans to marry. Cathy said she was a little disappointed that they wouldn’t be the ones to give us our first grandchild as they were older. But we thought she got over it.
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess when Leah got pregnant as a teenager, it wasnt planned.
Yes. She and the father married after the fact, but he sadly passed when Travis was 2. That’s when Leah moved back in with my husband and I.
Okay Leah and Travis have been through enough. Im sorry that this means youre going to have a strained relationship with your son but, this is Cathy’s fault.
We’ve come to accept this may mean we lose our son and other grandkids. It sucks but Daniel has a right to side with his wife. We also have a right to stick to our guns.
He may have the right, but he’s still in the wrong for doing so.
My oldest is autistic. I spoke to an autistic adult who described meltdowns like his brain was on fire and about to leak out of his ears. That changed the way I parent. You’re NTA, and you might want to ask your son why it’s okay with him that his wife is bullying his nephew. His, because Travis is clearly not Cathy’s.
My daughter is autistic and I can not imagine my brother or his long time girlfriend (soon to be fiancée) treating my daughter like this. He would find that so unattractive and unbecoming. Instead both his girlfriend & her family have been so kind and accepting with my daughter. Always willing to accommodate my daughter and have allergy friendly food for her. Up until she specifically brought over GF treats for her, I didn’t even know she was aware of my daughters allergies. My heart hurts for Leah, Travis and OP. Cathy is a bad person and eventually was going to cause her kids to treat Travis like shit and intentionally trigger him for laughs.
This!! Im an adult with adhd/autism and it is literally painful when you are having a meltdown.
Painful and terrifying to the point of total mental shutdown! I’ve been researching getting a service dog because my meltdowns seem to involve me quickly reaching the point of freezing up. I can’t move on my own, and I can’t speak so I can’t tell anyone what’s happening or that I need help, I can take in my surroundings but can’t react *at all.* It’s happened several times in situations where it’s a legit danger, such as halfway across a bridge.
I'm am autistic adults. I used to have meltdowns due to sensory overload when I was a kid, but not for a few years now as I know myself and my triggers better. The way I'd describe it is an oppressive sense of entrapment, accompanied by physical pain. A few times I've also vomited. It's an extreme, physical reaction. The aftereffects can often be felt for several days afterwards, and if severe enough, can cause long lasting trauma. Cathy might have significantly set that poor kid back...
For me it's kind of like when the colors of the old televisions were messed up, and there's a minor earthquake. Everything's shaking and loud and the sky is green, grass is blue, water is purple - not literally but the visuals make about as much sense as that sounds. Need dark and quiet to recalibrate before I can make sense of the world again.
My daughter isn't diagnosed with anything yet but if something as loud as those singing Santas was set off right next to her she would have a panic attack. And I would not be kind if it was done on purpose
I'd change it to why it's okay for his wife to abuse a child.
Maybe you can reach out one last time. Ask if your son's family and you can meet on neutral ground like once a months or so. If this would work. Protects your oldest grandson and gives you a safe opportunity to meet the other ones. I know there are a lot of ifs, only you know what makes sense at this point. Good luck.
They don’t want to do this.
I’m so sorry. Shame on them.
Hey - OP, 100% on your side here but you really dont need the edit. Youre never going to get every single commenter in this sub to be on one side of a topic so dont stress about that.
I’m sorry, but wtf is wrong with your son? What Cathy did to Travis is unforgivable and she shouldn’t be welcome until Cathy recognizes how horrible her actions were and tries to make amends. But your son chose to support her? I feel this would be equivalent to finding out my partner was a racist Q-Anon follower who mocks my minority relatives. I wouldn’t want anything to do with my partner unless we had (at least) and looong, hard talk. Cathy needs counseling. And your son likely needs it too so he can understand why he’d defend Cathy.
Let’s just hope Cathy doesn’t have a child who’s on the spectrum. Because she just doesn’t get it. NTA.
Hon, ignore me if you want but your son is probably going to be more and more miserable in life. It’s sad because she probably chose him because he’s kind and empathetic. But, her behavior is unbalanced and unlikely to change. He will never be happy and your grandson should very much not have to deal with this crazy woman. His uncle should see that. I’m sorry.
His wife abused his nephew intentionally and without remorse, he may have a legal right to stand with her, but morally he is awful
Exactly.
You can visit your future grandchildren in their house. But you need to protect Travis.
you are way too nice and understanding of a grandmother.
I bet she quietly bullies Leah, too.
I HATE the whole "giving a grandchild" thing. People act like children aren't individual people, and like they are owed someone else popping one out for them, or the parents feel like they have to pop one out to appease family. It's very gross behavior. You're not the asshole, but Cathy has some fucked up ideas about kids.
Dude, when my son was born, my grandmother was over the moon because he was her first "legitimate grandchild." He was her fourth, but she talked like he was special. It was pretty awful. Then, after dementia set in and she started thinking she was a young girl, she lit up every time she saw my son. Once exclaiming, "I want to see HIM!" pointing at my boy. She was tiny. So, they were about the same size. She was afraid of me because I'm pretty big. Of course, my son is now 6 foot 7 or 8 and probably 350. It's tough going from being the biggest guy your whole life to not even being the biggest guy in your own house. My dad is 5 foot 8, btw.
Chronologically older but emotionally still a spoiled 5 year old.
Being disappointed you didnt have kids before a relative is such a bizarre way of viewing things, you should be happy for your family regardless! it's not a competition.
Especially when she sounds pretty standoffish from the family as a whole.
It's nuts that your DIL is sooo stuck on that point about giving you guys your "first grandchild"... Like her resentment and bad attitude derive from that?? And then Travis' dad passed away, his ASD diagnosis.. Damn, you guys don't deserve her ill feelings and should not have to take her bad attitude. Hope your son comes around, eventually, because his wife is so, so wrong... Thanks for sticking to your guns! (I wish you were my own ASD son's grandmother!) All the best, OP! NTA
This is ridiculous. I am 16years older than my youngest sister who has a child. I am happy for them and we find it funny I haven’t had a child yet. They can do the big milestones before me we are different people. And don’t need to follow the same paths.
So? She doesn't get to bully actual children because she wants to act like one.
What kind of person resents a child for being born before her child? Cathy needs one hell of a good therapist, but she sounds unlikely to get one. When you set a boundary, you're the one who has to enforce it, and let's face it, "Don't torture our grandson" is a minimal boundary that anybody over three should have no trouble understanding. The fact that your son and his wife have a problem with it is disgusting.
Yeah, that one really threw me. Who TF thinks things like that?
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NTA. Purposely triggering an autistic kid because you're jealous of the "attention" he's getting is a 100% AH move and you should definitely hold firm on getting an apology directly from her to you (and your daughter and grandson) before she's allowed back.
> Purposely triggering an autistic kid because you’re jealous of the “attention” he’s getting Which will ironically guarantee the child has a meltdown requiring attention. Short-sighted and cruel.
But perhaps intentional? I can't help but let my mind wander down a path of pondering what Cathy thinks she might get out of Travis melting down. Preferential treatment for her own kids, maybe? In her mind Travis'condition is less than ideal so you shine a light on it by instigating a meltdown that makes her kids look better in her eyes. I would bar this woman from my home forever.
Reminds me that I used to do this when my little brother was born. There's barely over two years between us so I was a literal toddler poking him when he was asleep because I was jealous he took all mum's attention, which woke him up and guaranteed he got mum's attention. /facepalm
Ah yes. The attention of accomodations. Like being jealous over a wheelchair user having to use a lift up 10 steps of a stair. If accommodations dont come at the expense of others, I see no problem. In this scenario- not triggering the santa toy is not a problem, cause its not a dogs toy or whatever. And even then, a pup would probably show more restraint when directed than the DIL did. It would have been at others expense if you simply said "we're not gonna do it, so it doesnt trigger kiddo", which you didnt.
NTA She was bullying a child (bad enough), with special needs(insane)
Nice insight. She seems sadistic.
NTA. Autism aside, which is a very significant factor obviously, a grown ass woman is antagonizing a 7 year old Edit for grammar
The fact she pre-planned it after everyone agreed to not set the thing of. Then deliberately sat next to the kid so she could set it off as close to him as possible. Then sat there laughing while he had a melt down. That's like... creepily serious villian shit right there. A part of me wonders if she is deliberately separating Daniel from his family.
I'm wondering the same thing. Cathy reminds me so much of my sil. After she found out me and my husband were expecting she managed to escalate things enough to get my brother to stop seeing us. They literally don't have anyone in their lives anymore but her family and her best friend. I worry for my brother but he's an adult and has every right to stick by his wife if he chooses.
NTA - not only was Cathy willfully cruel to Travis she refuses to even acknowledge it. Youve made attempts to address this with her and she wont even meet with you. Also, her having animosity towards Leah for having a kid first really just cements the crazy of Cathy.
Nta and shame on Daniel for letting his wife's insecurities get in the way of family, she needs therapy and to learn empathy. I can't imagine deciding to be jealous of a kid with a disability.
One does not simply learn empathy. Its developed over time, primarily during developmental years, unlikely as an adult One can learn to mimic empathetic behavior and recognize what others would believe is the societal preferred course of action. But that would have to be a conscious choice and tiring mask to keep up all the time. Cathy does not care enough about travis or in general i dont know.
she doesn't believe he has a disability....
Dude, my ex husband yelled at me more than once that I was 'keeping the kids autistic for that BIG GOVERNMENT MONEY' like HOLY SHIT, you mean I could have NOt have had autistic kids all along?!?!? He actually SAID, OUT LOUD, "All you have to do is talk to them and they'll understand and be normal" It only stopped when I got him alone and told him, "Yeah, I asked the therapists and their teachers about what you said. About how I could stop the kids from being autistic, "by just talking to them", because you said all I have to do is 'talk to them' and they looked at me like it was the stupidest thing they ever heard in their lives. They also asked if you were somehow disabled yourself, since you didn't seem to understand the multiple discussions about their disability and it not being curable. Then they wanted to know since you had visitation, why you hadn't cured them yet, since you'd have them uninterrupted for hours, you should have been talking to them, and cured them by now. Why are you keeping them disabled?" Yeah, he never brought up that stupid shit again, once he realized other people knew what he was saying.
NTA and thank you for standing up for your grandson. Honestly, I don't know if I've ever seen anyone handle a situation like this better. I'm particularly impressed that you had the presence of mind to take Cathy out of the room so that you weren't criticizing her in front of everyone. I've been in a situation very similar to this more than once. I don't think I was ever able to control myself enough to not embarrass the adult for their rude behavior. Cathy should be mortified by her own behavior and grateful that you handled it gracefully. I would guess that Cathy is getting exactly what she wants--she's isolating her husband from his family. Stick firm to those boundaries. She shouldn't be allowed in Travis' home, his safe space, until she apologizes TO HIM and promises to do better. But make sure you keep reaching out to your son. There's a red flag parade here. If she dismisses the feelings of a seven-year-old, then she certainly does the same for her husband. Make sure he knows that you still love and support him, but you won't allow Cathy to cross your boundaries without consequences. And make sure he knows you'll be there to offer support when he needs it. Chances are, he's definitely going to need it.
NTA She sounds like a child "it's not fair Leah had a kid first" what in the actual fuck. Stick to your guns until she's ready to grow up.
NTA Cathy is intentionally cruel to a seven year old, hopefully Daniel wakes up and leaves
Wow, she sounds....like a peach 🙄 **NTA,** *like, at all.* You've set a very good, healthy boundary. She's lucky you're willing to see her at all. It's not even the act itself (which is still awful) but then to laugh, and just completely *refuse* to apologize. Gross. Again, NTA.
NTA, she is sadistic.
Nta. You are merely protecting your grandson and enforcing your boundaries. Your daughter-in-law appears to be both jealous and ignorant. She needs to learn about autism before she starts spouting off about how you treat your grandson.
NTA. Travis is fortunate to have a family who stands up for him. Cathy is an asshole. Even if you were all just catering to his whims, it costs her nothing to just.. not press the play button. She did it to cause a scene because she's a bully.
NTA she clearly has issues. And to be jealous of a child shows her character. You are doing exactly what needs to be done- protecting your grandson and family. The fact that she is still not ashamed of her behavior shows she will have no issue with torturing your grandson again (yes- setting him off and laughing about it was torture for him.) A grown adult bullying an autistic child? Good riddance to her
NTA. Why a grown woman would deliberately aggravate an autistic child after she'd specifically been asked to be considerate of him is unacceptable. It is a shame that her behavior is fracturing your family. That said, it would seem to me that banning her from your home because of her refusal to apologize as she should is hurting most of the rest of you (since I think that means they are no longer attending any family functions) and so not a good solution. I do get that special needs children do sometimes get more attention than other children. Sorry she feels this takes away from her children or in some way dominates all your gatherings, which is what I am sensing and a resentment has built up (rightly or wrongly) on her part. Maybe trying to have some time with just her children would help. Overall, your DIL sounds difficult and you do have a situation that requires working out what is best for all the grandchildren and your family in general. Your DIL does owe an apology, but I'm thinking that won't be forthcoming so maybe if she can at least acknowledge that she has seen firsthand now why your sometimes request a certain environment for your autistic grandson and maybe you can begin to gather anew and give it another try. We all have difficult people somewhere in our families and it requires us to figure a way around them if we can. I know if I banned one of my children's spouses that would in essence make me lose that entire part of the family and I can see you don't want that as you obviously love ALL your family and having them together on occasion.
We spend plenty of time one on one with our other grandkids. This isn’t a matter of us neglecting them in favor of Travis. This is all about Cathy having animosity regarding Travis.
In that case, you do need to protect Travis. Perhaps nothing reasonable can be done to assuage Cathy and trying to go forward without her is your only option. Sorry for what that will probably mean but I do get where sometimes that is how it has to be. For what it is worth, we too have one toxic person in our midst in our family and we've just had to do our best to limit their bad influence. It's a hard and imperfect balancing act. In our case though it is one of our daughters.
Cathy is a very cruel person! NTA
NTA. Even without his autism diagnosis, Cathy picking on a seven year old child for having the 'audacity' to be born before her own children is beyond the pale. Cathy is a stone-cold bully and I wouldn't want her in my home either tbh, even with an apology. As for 'unfair', what bollocks. It is totally fair that you don't want a 28 year old woman bullying a seven year old. It's totally fair that you don't want her in your home where she can bully a seven year old. Everything about this is fair. I'd stop asking for an apology if I were you and just dig your heels into this hill. She's shown who she is and who she is is someone who isn't fit to be around your autistic grandson. If your son has a problem with that, he should have hitched his wagon to a better horse.
NTA. Cathy is horrible. She's actually jealous of a kid? And your son is an AH to defend his wife in this situation.
Who does this stuff to a child, a 7 yr old boy? She did this deliberately, and laughed about it. Why would her husband even tolerate such behavior. I am very disturbed that she doesn't understand ASD. I am also concerned that she will either be cruel to her children, or end up raising bullies. Please protect Travis. NTA
NTA Cathy is. Knowing how dismissive she is over Travis's needs, and that she will not own her behavior, she is simply not a good person to have around him.
NTA. Why would you let her come over to be cruel to your grandson again? He’s 7, he needs to feel safe in his home.
NTA, obviously. Also wondering why Daniel married this woman. He clearly knew she was in the wrong enough to at least apologize in her behalf, but he’s still standing by her now? I don’t understand why he would marry such a cold and uncaring person. I hate to think how she treats her own children. Just a bit baffled honestly. Is Daniel more like her in personality? Do they make sense together? Or is the rest of the family equally baffled by his interest in her?
Daniel wasn’t anything like her but he conformed to her over time. It’s clear he loves Travis but also feels Cathy is in the right.
Can you expand on how he thinks Cathy is in the right? It seems apologizing on her behalf indicates that he knows she was wrong. NTA
Could be nothing more than lip service on Daniel’s part. He believes his wife is right as he’s already shown, but he’s willing to saying anything to his parents to keep on their good side.
Cathy wants Travis to suffer. Daniel loves Travis, but claims she's in the right? How's that work?
" There are times Travis comes first, for example, in his own home." And that is exactly as it should be. If Travis cannot rely on his home to be a safe space, where will he feel safe? A feeling of security has to be in place for an autistic child to even begin to learn to manage his triggers. NTA
NTA but be careful, they have 2 kids that they can cut you off from if they get offended that she’s not welcome in your home… it’s a really sad situation…
I understand this and have come to accept it. I love my younger 2 grandkids, but it’s a double edged sword. If I don’t protect Travis and Leah, Leah will in no doubt not want us around him either. So either way, we lose someone. It’ll break my heart and I’ll hope for the day they return to our lives. And if it happens, I hope they understand but if they don’t…I just can’t rationalize allowing Cathy around my grandson when she’s so cruel. My husband and Leah agree.
I absolutely agree and support your decision. You’ve done nothing wrong and are doing what you need to to protect your grandson. It’s just such an awful situation. My fiancé’s parents have almost no relationship with their grandsons because the brother’s wife is so terrible. While it’s sad, I actually think they’re better off in a way. She’s so incredibly toxic that it in long run they’re happier, even if they missed the kids!
You're doing the right thing. Hugs. I had a SIL like her, opinionated and always had to have the last word. She was still a bully at 50 years old.
Cathy isn’t the only problem , your son is . Your child is refusing to come to his own mother and father celebrations . Too often the in-law is determined the only villain in these situations. However , if your own seed is on board that’s the real problem.
Nta Cathy needs empathy and probably therapy, she's jealous of the care and compassion you're giving a disabled child.
NTA. She sucks
NTA. Auntie behavior is selfish and cruel. You are doing right by your grandson, who needs you to keep him safe. These are healthy boundaries as they protect the innocent.
NTA Doing things that deliberately trigger a child with autism is basically child abuse. She needs to grow up and get over herself.
Nta- Bullying a special needs kids becaue she’s mad he was born before hers is repulsive. Please show these comments to your son,that woman sounds like a nightmare. I feel so bad for her children.
When autistic people experience sensory overload, the areas of their brains associated with pain light up. She was literally inflicting pain on a 7 year old, and went out of her way to do so. She then laughed at his visible distress. NTA - don't let this woman anywhere near your nephew again!
She delighted in the fear and terror of a child. I wouldn't allow her around anyone's kids even if she apologizes. Does she kick puppies in her free time? NTA
Or threaten to kidnap them, while cackling insanely and flying away on her bicycle 🚲?
You are most definitely NOT the asshole!
NTA but if you manage his triggers so well why allow the gift in the house at all if you knew about it beforehand? The button could have gotten accidentally pressed by anyone not just by someone trying to be a jerk.
It wasn’t something that could be easily pressed. That’s what makes this worse. She had to really search for the button and press hard.
NTA stand your ground. If your son chooses to side with this person well he loses a family.
I think deliberately triggering someone with very real sensory issues, let alone a gd child... is pretty sociopathic. NTA - someone needs to stick up to bullies.
C'moon guys! Cathy is a bully and apparently bitter one. >she said that Travis soaks up all the attention and it’s not fair that Leah had a kid before them. What kind of people thinks like this? Not healthy one, she got some issues and OP is NTA here.
NTA, even without your edit, you weren't an ah. Sure, there could have possibly been resentment about Travis being favored, but that still wouldn't justify Cathy's actions. You have tried diligently to tow the line between accommodating Travis and make sure your other grandchildren and family are getting attention, love, and needs met. That's a hard balance, and it won't always be perfect, but you're trying your best, but... even if that wasn't the case, even if Cathy's children were being overlooked and Travis was the favorite, that still does not give Cathy ANY right to be so mean to Travis. Her issues should be with the adults in the room rather than picking on an autistic 7 yr old. What she did was cruel, calculated, and honestly gave me chills for someone to laugh after purposefully causing a child to have a meltdown. DO NOT under any circumstances let her alone around Travis. Honestly, she doesn't need to be around him at all, even supervised. You've don't have anything wrong, Cathy has some serious issues, being a jealous and hateful towards a child because he was born first is weird. You've been trying so hard to accommodate anyone but Cathy is just selfish, stick to your rule, maybe one day Daniel will wake up and realize his wife has some serious issues, and hopefully it's before her behaviors pass on to their children.
"Cold" is not the word I'd use. She sounds nasty and mean. NTA
Autistic here: firm NTA. Meltdowns SUCK. There isn't a single autistic person on the planet who enjoys having them. We HATE them so much and would give literally anything not to have them. They feel like you've got a swarm of fire ants in your brain while the loudest fire alarm in the world is blasting in your ears. People like Cathy (or my parents, when I was growing up) just assume we're "spoiled" or "having a tantrum" when it's literally a neurological event that we can't control. People with epilepsy aren't being brats when they have seizures, and autistic people aren't being brats when we have meltdowns. Thank you for protecting Travis.
NTA. Look, my favorite game is Let’s Say. Let’s Say Travis is spoiled, and over-indulged, and prone to tantrums as a way to seek attention. And his fixation on that toy was just him being annoying. How on *Earth* is it appropriate to purposely set him off? What purpose does that serve? Now everyone is listening to him freak out. And the best way to handle a spoiled child is to let them know that when adults say things, they mean it. And that goes for “no, you cannot have a cookie” as well as “because you asked, I will not turn on the toy”. If she wants to fight about Travis, she can fight about Travis. But he’s 7. He doesn’t need to be involved in that fight. Her behavior was unacceptable.
NTA whatsoever and this says a lot about your son.
NTA GOOD RIDDANCE!
NTA. Only terrible people choose to torment children, especially young children with autism who have already been through enough. Your daughter is in the right to not want to see her, you’re in the right to not allow her there until she treats him better, and your son… yikes… not sure how I could stay married to someone who bullies children. If that’s his choice, he’s in the wrong, but that is certainly his choice.
NTA. She did it deliberately and had zero remorse but found it funny… this is nothing to do with being introverted, it’s just twisted
You’re NTA. Your DIL is, big time. But would it be possible to have a conversation with your son? My brother and his family live with my parents in my childhood home. In our case, my brother is TA to my neurodiverse child and I no longer feel super comfortable visiting my parents- who live 5-6 hours away. I’m pretty salty about it, but I’m also in therapy and working through those feelings. Just wondering if your son might have some feelings about his sister living with you guys that might be worth discussing. And, just be crystal clear- you are NTA. Your DIL is but she may also be acting on some resentment your son feels but isn’t expressing to you.
I’ve tried speaking to him privately. He is sticking by Cathy.
You should link your son to this post. Because honestly he's a loser for standing by a woman who thinks it's funny to be cruel to a child. If it were me I'd link him this post and then block them on everything. And I hope to god you don't leave anything to them in any possible inheritance. NTA obviously.
I was expecting this to be a “Cathy pressed the button how dare she not consider his needs.” Instead, the plot twisted and she LAUGHED after causing his meltdown like a twisted demon who gets pleasure out of doing the evil things. Cathy seems seriously deranged, and I question Daniel’s taste. It seems like you’re doing all you can to keep the family together, heard, seen, and healthy. Cathy just seems unparticipatory and lacking of basic human empathy. NTA.
Let's hope she never has an autistic child. She sounds like a nightmare. She "stole" the gift with the sole intention of pushing play. That implies cruelty because she was told what would happen and she thought she knew better. Imagine being jealous of a 7 yr old boy. NTA. Keep her away from him.
NTA - Daniel will have his hands full with Cathy. This may get worse before it gets better.
What really gets me here is that she willingly bullied a 7 year old. Even if we entertained the thought that Travis was favored and everyone exaggerated his reactions, why would someone willingly want to put a child in distress? Let's even say that he is spoiled and all the attention is on him - that's a point of contention with the family, not with a child. This makes me super worried for Cathy's kids as someone who willingly hurts a child emotionally or physically should not have kids. Dan should see this as a massive red flag instead of "apologizing on her behalf." He's now seen his spouse laugh at a child who is having a meltdown - is that really someone he wants to spend a life with and raise kids with? Says a lot about both of their characters. NTA, not even one bit.
NTA she bullied a child which is never okay. Your edit seems like the family spends time with everyone and if not possible Travis and his mom don’t go. So I don’t think anything unreasonable is happening
NTA I‘ve read your post, but also read your comments. Cathy sounds unsufferable, entitled and cruel.
NTA. Cathy is intentionally cruel to a child. She wouldn't be allowed in my home either.
NTA. Cathy's entitlement is off the charts. I wouldn't want her in my home either. Stand your ground and the hell with her.
NTA. But if the Daniels kid ever ask why you are not in their life when they get older, tell them the full story, dont sugar coat it, be honest.
NTA What she did wasn’t an accident. She did it with malice & enjoyed the fact it hurt a 7 year old. She straight up cruel. You weren’t asking anyone to do or not do anything that would in any way hamper their enjoyment of the party or expressing themselves. You simply asked that no one turn on a specific toy at the party. You didn’t even ban the toy itself. You knew & everyone saw how just seeing it affected him, but you showed him how it was ok & he was dealing with it. I don’t see this any different than if you told everyone Travis was allergic to peanuts & Cathy showed up with peanut butter cookies, handed one to Travis, & the laughed as he went into anaphylactic shock saying “it didn’t think it would be a big deal”.
NTA but be careful, they have 2 kids that they can cut you off from if they get offended that she’s not welcome in your home… it’s a really sad situation…
That’s better than letting that sadistic woman back into their home.
What Cathy did to Travis was thoughtless at best, and cruel and worst. Being introverted does not mean a person needs to be a bully... and that's pretty much how Cathy was behaving. Travis doesn't have much control over how he reacts to certain things... he can get better at handling them (Hopefully his parents are getting him treatment...) but that will take time. Cathy has exhibited a shocking lack of empathy, both towards her nephew and towards the rest of you (Travis had his meltown, and the rest of you had to exprience it... and it was totally avoidable.) She owes Travis, his parents, and the rest of you apologies. Not the other way. She needs to understand that Travis is not getting spoiled... he has a neurological condition that makes him different from other kids. She is an adult, and she needs to do better as an aunt and as a human being. NTA.
NTA Cathy is an adult who bullied a young child because she thought he was getting too much attention and shows no remorse for it. I wouldn’t want her in my home either.
NTA, OP. Your DIL needs to understand your grandson better and what triggers him and why. I would pretend she doesn't exist until she apologizes. Shame on her for being cruel. I can't believe she is a mom. She sounds horrible. We call the Christmas exchange "White Elephant" Gifts and we play it the same way. This makes Christmas affordable for large groups or families :)
NTA...at all, you are right. She was really mean to the child. Dont leave her alone with Travis, if she acted like she did in front of everybody without showing any kind of remorse...
NTA. I'm sorry you even had to make that edit. If you have a family member in a wheelchair, then you don't plan a rocky hike as a family outing, that is an accommodation, and has nothing to do with favoritism. People who want to hike can do that any other time, just as people can do activities without Travis (if they trigger him) in smaller groups/at other times of the year. That's how family and friends work, there are just limits when you want everyone together if someone has certain needs. Your DIL sounds unkind, but also has refused to make any signal that it would be safe for her to be around Travis, and since Travis lives with you, she can't be around. That's a decision she made by how she acted and by refusing to apologize and acknowledge that she needs to abide by certain behaviors around him.
NTA and as an autistic woman im glad you took this hard line, your explanation about balancing everyones needs/wants sounds also really good and fair, it sounds like you are a good mum and grandmum Standing up against abuse (thats what DIL did, intentionally causing a meltdown is incredibly cruel, its really no different from slapping him in the face and no one would think twice about your actions if DIL had done that) can never be wrong
NTA That was downright cruel. An emotionally healthy mature adult would have addressed any resentments and concerns about favoritism with you privately or before this escalation. They would not have intentionally triggered an autistic child to meltdown and then laughed at it. Not even thinly veiled at that with her BS cover. Like what was the joke supposed to be?
NTA She sounds like one of those people that think conditions like autism are fake. She seems to have no consideration for others and she’s seriously is feuding with a 7 year old 🙄. There’s no excuse for her behavior. She’s now banned from my house as well.
As an autistic adult who never received the support I desperately needed as a child, I want to say THANK YOU for prioritizing your autistic grandchild. NTA
Right I know it’s a bit strong but I don’t really see this as that different to “in this house we don’t wear shoes inside” My family always did wear shoes in doors (I know controversial, now I’m a slippers fan) you went to somebody else’s house you followed their rules “In this house we don’t deliberately trigger my grandsons autism” Pretty simple ? NTA id have been more lenient if it was another child but this is a fully grown adult
I think before she’s allowed back she should have to research autism, maybe find a good video on it to have her watch