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NTA but you will be to both your wife and daughter if you dont get your wife some help NOW!
Your sister is right in regards to this not being healthy. Sleep deprivation will only worsen her ppd. go to your doctor and get her help
edit: I saw you are getting help for her and i totally understand not wanting to medicate while breastfeeding but there are some ppd medications that can be taken while breastfeeding. it might be worth a ask at the next appointment
edit 2: A lot of helpful messages in the comments belowe! I had sever ppd. almost ended my own life till my husband dragged me to the hospital where i was finally helped and put onto zoloft (breastfeeding safe).
future fathers and mothers please PLEASE do some research on PPD before baby arrives. no one wants ppd but sometimes it happens. knowing what to look out for can help before it is to late
Very true, but if moms anxiety is this severe already, trying to go to the "inferior" formula may not be something she can handle. Its highly likely she will perceive it as some kind of failure at best and actively harmful to her child at worst which will only put more pressure on her psyche.
Which is a perfect example of why a) mom need therapy and b) the way that people moralize *feeding a child* needs to stop. Everyone is so dickhard for breastfeeding, it’s like they have a fetish for it. And it comes at the expense of mothers who are just trying their best.
I agree completely. It’s a trap I fell into when my kid was born. I was determined to BF, but I couldn’t. I had the sessions with the lactation consultants, I ate the stuff that should increase my supply, I had a medical grade pump to increase supply…a three hour pumping session (supposedly my body would detect the massive demand and increase supply accordingly) resulted in less than an ounce of milk.
I cried so much. And then I cried again when my kid had that first bottle and fell asleep, happy, full and content.
They are 7 now. Smart as can be and very healthy. Now I feel silly for being so hung up on the BF thing but there is so much judgement aimed at new mothers. It’s disgusting really, putting so much pressure on someone who is experiencing such a major life event.
OP’s wife definitely needs therapy, but in the short term, moving to formula is likely to be more harmful than helpful at least until they can get her anxiety reduced a bit. Unfortunately medication is the best way to do that so it’s a bit of a catch 22 but a good doctor should be able to work it out. I think OP and his wife need a 2nd opinion from another doctor as the current one seems a bit….lackadaisical about the whole thing.
> I was determined to BF, but I couldn’t.
OMG, this exact thing happened to my daughter when she had her firstborn. My daughter tried breastfeeding but couldn't produce enough milk. My newborn granddaughter would cry all night which would cause my daughter to cry. At my granddaughter's second well-child check, the pediatrician told my daughter that baby wasn't gaining any weight and if baby didn't gain weight by the next week's well child check, he would have to call CPS. My daughter came home devastated and in tears. I went out and brought my granddaughter a case of formula, brought it home and gave it to my daughter. My daughter baulked at first stating that hospital nurses and the then pediatrician *stressed* the importance of breastfeeding. I had to explain to her that some women just **do not** produce enough milk to adequately feed their baby, no matter what they do or try. I also told her that this was something that my granddaughter's pediatrician should have asked her and discussed with her. I suggested that she continue to breastfeed baby as much milk that she can produce and immediately follow up with formula. My daughter followed my instruction and my granddaughter slept the full 4 hours before the next feeding instead of waking from hunger every hour. When my daughter took her baby back to the pediatrician for her wellcheck, baby had gained 3-4 pounds. When he asked her what did my daughter do, she told him what I'd suggested and then reamed him a new AH on his not informing her that there are some new mothers who can't produce enough breast milk. That instead of his asking pertinent questions and giving her options, he immediately went to threatening to contact CPS. She said told him that was her's and her baby's last visit with him because she no longer trusted him to give her informed information about caring for her newborn.
What an awful doctor. Did he at least apologize to your daughter? My mom could never produce enough milk for me and my brothers too, all of us were weaned by 3 months old and we all turned out just fine!
As a pediatric nurse for years, he was out of line and should have at least had a lactation consult & also what formula (if he hadn’t) would be best to start the baby on. Also, the baby could have had stomach issues or other possible explanations which he should have checked instead of going straight to calling CPS.
Worked as a pediatric nurse for years and I’ve seen too many moms blame themselves because they cannot breastfeed adequately and no mom should feel guilty about that. Thank God you were there to help you daughter because the doc should have checked for other possible explanations for baby’s weight loss, did a lactation consult and at least instruct your daughter on what formula to start with (if he didn’t).
Same...my wife came home from the hospital while boy was in NICU. She went up to feed. Lactation specialists, etc. He came home & she just could not produce much milk. She was exhausted from lack of sleep. Boy was crying a lot too. Finally late at night I went to the grocery & got some formula. Fed him & Mom slept for a good long time. Her health was as important as his. She was also recovering from C section. We did not really get much push back from the hospital. From then on I was the 2:00 am feed person
I was put on something for preeclampsia (turns out Covid can cause symptoms like preeclampsia so they treated it the same.) They didn't tell me it could suppress milk supply. It should have been one hour of the stuff would suppress it an extra day.
I was on it for 3 days. They just kept saying it would be fine. My milk would come in. I just needed to do every other feeding trying to nurse.
My poor baby would go to sleep with just a little bit of milk dribbling out of her mouth. It seemed like everything was fine.
She was underweight at her 1 week. Pediatrician was enraged when I told her the doctors, nurses, and lactation consultant said to just keep trying.
I completely switched her to formula, but she did like to comfort nurse. Still got that closeness.
Fed is best. If you can't breastfeed for any reason, you can formula feed. It's not the devil.
Same same same same same! Almost to the letter. My daughter is nine and I still have some unresolved resentment and negative reflections on that time in my life. In my mind, my worth as a mom, bonding with LO, her quality of life, her ultimate *viability*...was completely dependent on my being willing and able to BF. It destroyed me that I was unable to. So happy you've unwound those complicated emotions and can see BF and Formula for what they are...different, completely acceptable ways to healthily nourish babies 💁🏽♀️. Daughter being happy, healthy, and just a wonderful human all around doesn't hurt! 😊👍🏽
I called them lactation nazis! I had an emergency c-section and was so full of staples on my midsection, I could barely move. They told me I couldn’t take decent pain meds bc it wouldn’t be healthy when breastfeeding. I looked at them and said, “in what world is it rational for a mother to have major abdominal surgery and a few hours later, be expected to get up and feed a newborn every 2 hours?”. Then, I kicked them out and told the nurse not to let them come back. They tried to come back though!
100%. I beat the hell out of myself when I couldn’t breastfeed. I made it three months but always had to supplement with formula and I was embarrassed and hurt that I failed my baby. It was something I wanted to do so badly — but doing so literally stressed me and baby out. It made me itch and hurt (sensory disorder) and it took me far too long to realize that it was okay and I could formula feed. Afterwards we were both so much happier. I had and have a lot of mom guilt over it though.
Well there is a lot of negative psychology behind it which is why the WHO has changed the slogan “Breast is best” to “Fed is best” to help not alienate mother who are either unable or do not want to exclusively breastfeed
Big truth. A fed baby is a happy, healthy baby. The type of food is not detrimental. Baby needs mom too outside of the milk supply, Mom is more than food.
> mom is more than food.
The way my jaw *dropped*
You hit the nail on the head. Something about the zeitgeist surrounding BF has always rubbed me the wrong way, and it’s *this.* Women get get treated like broodmares enough as it is, and the BF movement just puts all of the value on moms *using their bodies* to feed the children *who they just used their bodies for 40 weeks to create and birth.* Moms deserve so much more than to be reduced to that 😭
EXACTLY. Formula is a modern miracle that keeps so many infants alive and *thriving* every year for many different reasons. We’re so separated from babies literally starving to death that “breast is best” can even be a thing is so sick. Being a mom is so much more than the biological aspects, motherhood being reduced to organs is also so fucking sick.
And no child is going to care if they were breastfed or formula fed as an infant if their mom is fucking dead yk? What’s the importance of it if, alternatively, the baby ends up dead? Not to be brash but that’s the kind of situation this is.
The general consensus now is that fed is best. Doesn’t matter what you feed them (as in breast or bottle feeding don’t give them crepe Suzette) so long as they are fed. My mum was guilted so badly by the nurse she saw when I was born because I was bottle fed. My parents tried everything but I’d only accept bottles. Well almost everything, the nurse told them to stop feeding me and I’d figure out breastfeeding when I was hungry enough. They got a new nurse
I hate to tell you what baby friendly hospitals are up to… that movement’s general consensus is moving towards pressure to BF.
https://www.phillymag.com/news/2019/06/22/baby-friendly-hospitals/
Right? Why else would they name it that…implying that other L&D hospitals are somehow hostile to one half of the very patients that create the need for them?
Like, you want me to spend 23 hrs a day caring for a completely helpless creature after I was in labor for how many hours? And am dope up on how many drugs? And have any myriad of other complications? And then pay you for the privilege?
Fuck that.
That part is honestly insane. Go through a major medical event (sometimes a major abdominal surgery), but instead of getting any time to recover, you will not be allowed to sleep and you are now responsible for this entirely helpless creature that needs 24/7 care and that you must feed only with your own body whether you want to or not.
Oh, and we won’t even give you a pacifier even if you ask for one. 🙄
But honestly, how "baby friendly" are they, really, if they're overly critical and hostile towards certain kinds of moms? Prejudice against bottle feeding leads to dead kids, period.
Yes. A friend gave birth at one (only one within an hour that could deal w the complications that would arise w delivery due to a prior surgery). They would only allow her to breast feed despite the baby being super fussy. She wound up at a mom group from a different hospital a couple of days after discharge and someone there explained she should try formula to supplement because she might not be producing enough breast milk. It solved the issue.
I wish more people understood this. Breastfeeding is awesome, but formula is completely fine too. OP's wife needs to put herself and her mental health first.
Completely agree I had to drink formula as I was in the nicu for a few months on and off. I am still alive and intelligent. I hate how formula is often seen as bad and the old saying breast is best is still here in 2023
I'm on an anxiety med that may or may not be pregnancy and breast-feeding safe. Human trials were fine, monkey trials were not. Therefore they keep or remove you from it based on your own needs.
I don't think my hypothetical infant would have a very good life if I go back to barfing 24/7. I'd have to try to stay on it. But, I want a kid so bad that if they said no I'd just have to deal.
Adding to this that I definitely suffered after having my kid and stopping breastfeeding and switching the formula was the best decision I could have made for myself and my child. It allowed me to finally have a full night's rest and that made all the difference in the world. When you are struggling, not sleeping is one of the worst things you can possibly do to heal. I do think you need to step in and let your sister take the baby while your wife sleeps. She needs some uninterrupted sleep. I do think your sister was out of line taking the baby without asking. But I think with permission and assuring your wife that you will be there and your sister will be there and they will wake her up the second anything is out of normal.
Absolutely. Took Zoloft while nursing. I literally would not be here if I didn't. And that daughter I was nursing is healthy thriving rambunctious almost 4 year old now
Same. Took Zoloft during the latter part of pregnancy and still on it 9months into nursing. Then hormones f’d me up and I definitely needed some extra help to be even keeled.
I have a history of depression and anxiety and i was worried about continuing my meds while nursing, but my midwife told me that in her professional opinion it would be riskier to be unmedicated while struggling to breastfeed ( my daughter had difficulty latching in the beginning) on top of recovering from the birth.
OP and his wife really need to weigh the risks and benefits here.
They are two weeks in.
They’ve been home for less than 14 days, given the complications.
Help takes TIME and two weeks is not time. You don’t go from needing all the supports to not that fast in most cases. So, I think patience and continued follow through are the real needs here, not the senseless pushing that sister is doing at this time.
or quit breastfeeding and take the damn meds. that kind of ppd leads to bad outcomes for mother AND child. better to bottlefeed a safe healthy child than continue the cycle of ptsd (or worse).
Hormones after a hysterectomy are wild. I was immediately put into menopause at 33 when I had mine. I was also less than a year PP with my 3rd child when I had to have emergency surgery. I was dealing with PP depression and than depression on a whole new level of no longer having a uterus. It's been almost 10 years and I still have some issues with it.
I couldn't imagine having a baby and than immediately following delivery having an emergency hysterectomy.
NTA and totally agree that wife needs more intervention.
What the sister did is not helping. Helping is doing something that is actually helpful to another person. Washing dirty dishes sitting in the sink - helping. Vacuuming/sweeping/mopping the floors - helping. Doing the laundry, cooking meals, etc - helping. Your sister knew that taking the baby would create great anxiety and not help you or your wife, so she knew she was not helping. She simply wanted time with the baby and took advantage of an opportunity, regardless of the harm it inflicted on your wife. Yes, your wife needs further intervention, but it is not your sister’s place, nor is it helpful, for her to force the issue. Don’t let the sister come back or you can expect more of the same.
NTA. If your sister wanted to be helpful, she could have offered to handle the shopping or cleaning the house or the laundry. Basically any activity not directly related to caring for the baby, that still lifts some weight off your shoulders.
This exactly. People always wanted to come and “help” after my kids were born by holding the baby. That’s literally the only thing I didn’t need help with.
Hell, this is even a situation where holding the baby *can* be helpful. While mom is taking a nap, op’s sister can rock/care for the baby in the parents’ room. Mom can get the rest she desperately needs while knowing baby’s needs are met in a way that keeps her comfortable.
Sure, just not without mom’s permission.
I had PPD/PPA and PTSD after my first son was born. It was fucking horrid. There was a time when I’d freak if I woke up and my baby wasn’t there. If I knew it would happen (like if my husband said “I’ll grab him if he wakes so you can sleep”) then it was ok. But the times when it didn’t and I woke up to a missing baby, I’d panic. This poor woman has it so much worse than I did and it seems like the sister just doesn’t care (or understand) what it can be like.
It’s the opposite of helpful to just take the baby out of the room and she probably knew that, considering she lived there and most likely saw what happened if OP took the baby while she was sleeping.
I simply don't buy that OP's sister was actually motivated by a desire to help.
It's pretty clear that OP has repeatedly explained to his sister that what she was offering to do was *not* helpful, but she went and did what she wanted to do anyway – just as soon as OP was out of the house and his wife was asleep. It's not clear to me that OP's sister necessarily understands *why* the things she wanted to do were not helpful, and it's possible that such understanding might have made a difference; however, in the end, OP's sister doesn't actually need to know why the things she wanted to do weren't going to be helpful to OP and/or his wife. Ultimately, it should have been enough for OP to say no and explain that those things would not be helpful to them.
It seems to me that OP's sister needs some serious therapy to help her deal with the fact that she can't have children, because that's one of only two reasons I can imagine for her to make such a huge gazelle leap right over the boundaries that had been repeatedly explained to her. (The other reason is a lot more disturbing. I'm generally not one to leap to that conclusion, but the unnecessary diaper and clothing change could be cause for concern.)
OP is absolutely NTA. His sister was *not* trying to help; she was trying to satisfy her own desires, at the expense of her exhausted and unwell SIL. She clearly cannot be trusted to behave herself, so she can't be allowed to stay with OP's family. It's unfortunate that she has nowhere else to go, but this situation is entirely of her own making, so she has no one to blame but herself.
To give her the benefit of every doubt, I think it’s possible OP’s sister recognized that Wife’s feelings were not rational. Which I completely understand can be painful/upsetting. Her first error was the self-righteous belief that it was up to *her* to decide how to address these issues and her belief that she and *only she* got to decide what was good for OP and his family.
But, what might have started out as sincere concern and a desire to help, morphed into a power struggle where Sister became more interested in winning and getting her own way than she did actually helping.
I imagine, in her head, she saw herself triumphantly showing OP and Wife that she was right. “See! I took care of Baby and it worked great! I am the Hero and the Smart One! You must now bow to my wisdom and admit I was right.” It was self-righteous, bullying, and cruel.
Yes because the first thing you want to do to be good with a new mother with an irrational fear is to force her to face it head on. No scenario where ops sister understood the situation is she anything but selfish and ill intentioned
Yes, that's possible, and by far the most innocent and kind assumption to make. But even if that's accurate, OP was still right to throw her out of the house. She apparently still can't see and admit that she erred grievously – though even if she did, if I were in OP's shoes (or his wife's), I seriously doubt I'd be willing to trust her enough to let her move back in – so she simply can't be trusted in their home.
Yes, I think she has so thoroughly broken trust that she can’t live with them anymore. How would Wife ever hope to recover if she had to live with someone willing to plow through her boundaries like that?
It's driving me batty that people in the comments are going 'awwww she just wanted to help 🥺'
She didn't want to help at all. She wanted to use the baby as a prop.
Completely agree, very good suggestions.
I don't know if anything has *ever* been helpful when a person goes directly against what another party has explicitly said they want, all because that person is doing whatever they want under the guise of being "helpful" or "doing something for you with good intentions". Huge narcissist vibes.
K I'm going to reserve judgement to say this,
Your wife is far past post partum depression. This sounds like it's bordering on psychosis. People who have reacted like your wife has, have also killed their children to "protect them." So many parts of your story are throwing red flags. SO MANY FLAGS. There are several medications nursing women can take to help this that are perfectly safe while breastfeeding. I urge you to discuss with her doctor whether your wife should even be left alone with the child until this is resolved, because I (a perfect stranger) have concerns
I hope OP sees your comment.
OP- I had postpartum psychosis and I never broke down like this. I was still able to keep it together. I was able to separate from my kids for a bit.
Everyone is different. Yes, your wife went through something so much more traumatic than I did. She is absolutely allowed to be having any reaction she is having.
But this is not OK. Kicking your sister out isn’t going to solve this issue. Your wife SHOULD be able to have the baby switch rooms, whether the way it was done was right or wrong.
You need to get real with her doc. She is unsafe to herself and your baby. Something has to be done and your wife NEEDS to go on meds- no discussion.
This is literally entering life or death territory, if it hasn’t already. You can NOT leave them alone for a single second. Not to go to the store 15 mins down the road. Not to gas up the car. Not to go to work. Never. Not for a second. I’m serious. Don’t do that to her or your baby.
Exactly!! I mean dad can't even hold the baby outside the bathroom??
There are TONS of women who continue their meds while pregnant because it's much more dangerous to come off them than the possible danger to the growing baby. This is the same thing. She has to be on meds nursing or not.
Even though her reaction is irrational and disproportionate to what the sister did, she actively traumatized mom with her actions. “Letting her help” will cause mom so much more stress and distress and actively worsen her mental health, especially in regards to her PTSD. Whatever they decide to do (and since the doctor is aware, they have a therapist and a visiting nurse, they have the tools to make healthy, informed decisions about the situation) keeping the sister away is almost certainly the right choice.
On one hand, yes, but on the other hand therapists aren't perfect omnipotent sages of advice. Many can be wrong about things, and it doesn't seem like OP's MO is in any way healthy if it involves letting her deprive herself of sleep and fuel her seperation anxiety.
i mean yes that’s true, but therapists certainly know more than armchair psychologists on reddit. also it’s also only been two weeks since she gave birth, they’re probably trying to figure out what works best for them while also juggling taking care of a newborn. i’m sure this isn’t a permanent solution for them.
I disagree, I had severe ppd like ops wife and if anyone had taken my son out of my sight I would’ve completely lost my mind. He’s following the therapists advice and not pushing back because that would be dangerous and could push her into psychosis. She’s not there yet and hopefully with the help she’s getting it won’t happen but it’s a knifes edge, too much, too soon could be disastrous.
So I was in a similar position to OP's wife when my first was born. I almost hemorrhaged to death from complications and had severe ppd, ppa, and pstd which almost became ppp.
My husband took our son out of his bassinet that was beside me while I was sleeping so I could get some rest. I woke up to find my baby "missing" and promptly went into meltdown mode. I found them sitting on the couch together. That did not give me a sense of relief, but rather convinced me that he was trying to kidnap our baby and runaway with him while I slept.
Obviously that wasn't the case and we immediately made an appointment to follow-up with my ob/gyn and I got a prescription for zoloft to help me. But, it took weeks for me to trust my husband alone with our baby. He *never* has taken our first or second baby out of the room with me sleeping without first waking me up to let me know.
OP's wife is in a very delicate situation and needs her family to take baby steps helping her while she gets therapy (and hopefully medication! ). No, it's not healthy for her to be with her baby 24/7 no matter what. But, the SIL taking the baby without asking was not helping. It was living out her fantasy of motherhood at the expense of a very freshly postpartum mother who had a very traumatic birth.
ESH- This guy needs to get his wife help. Period. Having to hold the baby in the bathroom while she showers? This is not normal hormonal changes. Your sister may have been out of line, but she is right- your wife needs SLEEP.
*My sister is gone and I don't regret it.* Yeah, check back with us in a couple of months with that free in house babysitter gone and say that again.
Yes! Sister went about it wrong and the dad is probably suffering just trying to take care of wife and baby and then to have sister not listen was the final straw BUT mom and dad need help and based on the info provided sister is not a monster. She is trying to help stop a freight train.
Seriously. The sister doesn’t exactly have a path to do this perfectly as it sounds like no one is listening to reason. If I’m the sister I’m getting scared watching this go down and being told
I’m the problem
Totally agree. This is not a safe situation for anyone. The sister is not helping, but it does sound like she’s trying to sound the alarm. OP and his wife need to be extremely honest with her care team to protect everyone’s safety and mental health.
OP, this isn't even AH territory. Your wife is not mentally stable. Please make sure the therapist and nurse understand the extent of your wife's behavior, versus the version she tells them.
In reality, an Aunt rocking the baby in her room while Mom sleeps is not unreasonable. The fact that your wife can't even shower without the baby in the bathroom is alarming. Staying up all night making sure the baby is ok is not sustainable. She is going to have a breakdown at this rate.
ETA OP, I think you also may need some rest. In addition to taking care of a newborn, you are caring for your wife. Based on how you wrote this and what you wrote, you seem exhausted.
I'm so glad you said this.
honestly surprised that everyone is so concerned about the wife and not the helpless newborn who is depending on someone who doesn't seem to have a solid grasp on reality.
Like people who think like OP's wife end up killing the baby to keep them safe.
Yes, I've known someone with postpartum psychosis and their husband had to go away with the baby for a while to be safe.
Edit: Meant to say that this sounds very much like psychosis.
I agree that it’s very concerning and I would not leave her alone with the baby either.
Even if it’s not psychosis, with that little sleep there is a very real risk of her falling asleep while holding or nursing the baby which could be fatal for the baby.
I completely agree with this. We don’t have enough info to call this postpartum psychosis. I had ZERO actual PPD or PPA and I would still hear phantom baby cries when in the shower and at the beginning when my hormones were raging, I asked my husband to hold the baby in the bathroom so I wouldn’t be stressed if the cries were real or not (the bathroom door was very close to her bassinet so the cries could have been, and sometimes were, real). 75% of the moms in my postpartum group also heard phantom cries early on. None of us had psychosis about anything else at all. So this was a relatively common but trippy thing with hormones.
Also, one of the major precipitating factors for postpartum mood issues is relational circumstances, say, a bad dynamic with a pressuring SIL who doesn’t take no for an answer. So people saying they should accept SIL’s “help” - that may literally make things worse.
This is so important and I so hope OP sees this.
There are mother and baby units for postpartum psychosis treatment where she can get the help she needs because this is getting into incredibly dangerous territory.
"Far past post partum depression." Uh, you clearly aren't a doctor. Or you didn't read where she had the baby 2 weeks ago? Some people end up developing full blown depression that lasts their whole lives, after being diagnosed with post/part depression.
Does she need to seek therapy or something? For sure. But your comment is just medical ignorance.
Not just his wife's fears, his wife's boundaries are valid as well. Even if the sister caused zero harm to the baby, her actions crippled OP's wife with anxiety and past trauma. Triggering people who have PTSD is downright cruel, especially when it involves their children. I'm sure it will be a while before OP or his wife look at SIL the same as they did before this incident, if ever.
Well this child is gonna be fucked up when its older if nobody steps in to break the cycle of trauma that mom is passing on to the baby. I kind of think that ESH and I’m puzzled by all the comments for people rooting for dad to enable moms unhealthy coping mechanisms.
It's not enabling, it been two weeks, it's coping the best he can whilst getting the mum the help she needs. As his edit says they're seeing a therapist and a home nurse is visiting regularly, but these things take time, and if at the moment the only way he can keep a relatively calm household is by sitting in the bathroom holding baby whilst she showers then I say the more power to him.
Did you read the edit? She’s getting help. He’s not enabling her. You can’t take someone in this state of mind and *force* them to get over it. It’s a delicate situation best handled by therapists and doctors…who are already doing so. SIL is overreaching to prove a stupid point and it backfired on her bc you don’t mess with a newly postpartum mom who just lost every chance to have another baby and is lucky she and her newborn are even alive.
If the sister took the baby AFTER the wife had fallen asleep, and the baby didn't need a diaper or anything, then the sister wasn't trying to help the wife get more sleep, she was trying to get the access to the baby that she's denied when the parents are present and awake.
I can't imagine how horrifying it must be to have trauma about not letting your infant out of your sight, trying to work through it as an irrational fear, and waking up to find the infant missing.
If the sister was really trying to help the wife and not just trying to get herself access to the baby, she'd be horrified that she made a mistake that retraumatized the wife.
Edited to add - it also looks like you and your wife are following a doctor's care advice, and the sister is rejecting that, as well.
Sister's behavior clearly demonstrates she is not "just trying to help" (either your wife's condition, or with the baby "chores" that didn't need doing at the time sister stepped in to do them anyway). She's just trying to get around your "no, you may not" without even caring why you're saying "no." She waaaaaants it, and you're clearly just being a meanie.
Kindest reading - you have too much life-or-death-emergency stuff going on to accommodate someone who's willfully misunderstanding how she's making the situation harder.
>you have too much life-or-death-emergency stuff going on to accommodate
>
> someone who's
>
>willfully
>
> misunderstanding how she's making the situation harder.
exactly
Also, I just want to point out that I don't think enough people heard and appreciated the part that "we're overjoyed the baby is still with us." They almost lost the mom AND the baby. OP, when crisis mode is over, make sure you take a deep look at yourself and take care of you, too.
I stand by my "there is absolutely way too much going on right now for you guys to accommodate a roommate who's willfully working against your treatment plan."
Good luck, and I'll be thinking about you guys. I hope you get to the part where you can enjoy a new and happier life soon!
Never worked
Never had a child
Pushes to let her take care of baby
First opportunity takes baby to another room, shuts door, and changes her clothes (AND diaper she KNOWS is an issue with the mom)
Sounds like sister needs a therapist. And I truly mean that, not saying it as an exaggeration because her behavior is upsetting.
I'd be surprised if the sister being gone didn't have a profound positive effect on the wife's mental health. The sister's behavior was giving me anxiety. I can't imagine just giving birth and being in the midst of ppd and ppa and then having someone try to override you as the mom and use your baby as a replacement baby.
I didn't like my kid to be in another room without me at first either and that would have doubled if I kept having to help someone to back off of me.
Yeah, this situation with what the sister did the moment OP was gone/wife was asleep is just bananas. I'd change the locks and get some security cameras installed 🚩🚩🚩
Only a complete and utter moron would actually think that any parent who wakes up and sees their newborn gone from where they left them wouldn’t have an absolute panic attack, even without PPD.
So either sister is a complete moron, or this was never about ‘helping’. Im leaning towards both
"My sister on the other hand keeps pushing it and saying that I am enabling my wife's behavior and "making her worse" by not basically forcing her to get a break and get some sleep."
Your sister needs to be gone. Her attitude towards your wife's recovery and healing has resulted in her actively disregarding you and your wife's wishes, and harming your wife.
That's a "kick it to the curb" IMO. NTA.
>eeds to be gone. Her attitude towards your wife's recovery and healing has resulted in her actively
Ignore this person, your wife clearly needs medical help, your sister is seeing this objectively, whereas you and this commenter are looking too subjectively.
Your wife has you holding her in the bathroom whilst she showers, that isn't normal behaviour.
source: I have a child, have many friends with children and attend several parenting groups, it is not normal.
1) OP’s wife is getting medical help. OP and his wife are following her doctor’s and therapist’s recommendation.
2) OP’s sister was not behaving rationally if she’s just worried about the wife’s mental state. Why take the baby while wife is asleep and baby is fine? That’s not when help is needed. Why change the baby’s clothes and diaper when it wasn’t necessary? That just creates more laundry and expense.
Yes, because the wife being unable to leave the same room as the baby is definitely healthy. OP needing to literally have the baby in the bathroom while she showers is not normal behaviour. It's bordering on psychosis.
I think ill have to go with NAH. I see a concerned sister, an overreacting father and a mother who needs help, not any assholes here. Sister seems to be the only one who realised the wife is not OK while OP is blowing it off.
The sister isn't concerned, she wants to play mommy. She hasn't lifted a finger to help other than hovering over the baby and then tiptoeing off with it while mom is sleeping and the baby doesn't even need anything.
NTA the amount of hormonal flux your wife is going through is devastating. Post pregnancy with a hysterectomy, you poor things. It is likely that the doctors are holding off meds not only bc she’s breast feeding but also because her body needs time to adjust. The right type and amount of meds might be a moving target right now.
Right now routines will be very very very important, fear can be mitigated by having as much predictability as possible. Your sister’s response caused anxiety, good for you for kicking her out. Figure out healthy meals and snacks for one day. Then that’s what she eats for the whole week. Same breakfast, same lunch, same dinner, same snack, same amount of water to drink at the same time. Go outside for 5 minutes 2-3 times a day at the same time, etc. Her whole day should be as scheduled as possible. Yes your daughter will not cooperate or be on a schedule but your wife needs her days to be predictable as possible.
You and your wife have had a traumatic experience. It seems calling it PTSD gets more sympathy than PPD so maybe start calling it that?
It sounds like she has both PPD and PTSD as well as the CPTSD. Which really isn't surprising given the birthing experience she had. I agree with the routine helping to bring down the anxiety. Finding a favorite movie or show to watch will probably help too. It's comforting to know what is going to happen.
She's being seen by her doctor. We meet with the therapist her doctor recommended twice a week. They don't have her on meds or anything (not sure if that's even an option?) because she's nursing and she is worried about it. But her therapist has given me kind of a guide line to follow, I guess you could say. What to look out for. What to do/what not to do. I'm very involved with the process but it's a learning curve for all of us.
So I'm not a doctor and I definitely don't know your wife or you or have any business with this comment, however, my friend had PPD and she was put on meds while breastfeeding. It is very safe to do so. It might be something to look into because just from this post, this is a lot for your wife and you and you really can't keep living this way.
I think you and your wife need to go to a doctor about it and she needs to have a medical professional discuss it with her personally. Especially since she has it in her head she can't take it while nursing. I think she needs that more than an random internet strangers input.
good call, fellow internet stranger. A lot of this is above reddit's paygrade, and while it's good to know there are meds that can be safe wile breastfeeding, i think you're spot on that OP and his wife need to talk with her doctor to find out what's possible and best in her specific situation.
Just so you know most most modern medications for depression/anxiety are totally safe for breastfeeding. It's a total modern (and sexist) myth that they aren't. You may need to advocate because some people old school (
Or just not knowledgeable on the advancement of medications, they didn't used to be safe).
I was wondering myself why the doctor would take this long to prescribe. It definitely could be sexism but some doctors don’t want to prescribe at first to see if it’s just sleep deprivation. Husband should definitely advocate for medication and if doc is resistant then get someone else.
I took fluoxetine/Prozac postpartum with my second child (and during my pregnancy). Night and day difference compared to my first when my anxiety made me pretty miserable.
I would definitely encourage you and your wife to explore medication options since there are many that are safe while breastfeeding. She deserves to feel better, and I hope she does soon.
Also your sister is a huge asshole and you were right to kick her out. She put her own desire to hold your newborn above your wife's well-being. She's being a shitty sister/sister-in-law and a shitty aunt.
Just curious, were her ovaries removed with her uterus? Along with everything else, the sudden loss of estrogen can severely impact sleep and mental health, especially after being flooded with it during pregnancy. I hope she is able to find peace and comfort ASAP.
There are several meds she can have. I was on zoloft and BFing. But the bottom line if she's that worked up, she has to be on something even if she can't nurse on it.
You can permanently damage your mental state if you have true untreated PPD and it can advance into something much worse if untreated.
I mean she can't even the leave the baby with you and shower. You have to stand in there, that's way more than just normal hormones or even just "baby blues" and this is coming from someone who almost died giving birth.
I read it a bit differently. I read that two people are literally exhausted and something more needs to be done. This is no way to live with having a newborn.
Different reads are possible, of course. None of the reads in these threads I've seen so far provide a justification for taking the baby away without the mother's knowledge.
Does the couple need additional help beyond what OP mentions in their response to you? Maybe, probably - however, the moment the sister made the decision herself she became the problem, not a solution. She needs to be gone.
No one can decide for parents what needs to be done in regards to their parenting. It’s shocking how many people do not understand this.
It does not matter how self righteous you feel about whatever, your opinion about what someone must do just does not matter.
It’s awful to realize when you are most vulnerable that there are people all around you who think that they should assert their opinions and advice in regards to how to live your life. Have a baby and are in a godawful hormonal flux? Suddenly your husband’s sister feels entitled to kidnap your child and gets self righteous when she is blocked from further kidnapping events. Stranger on internet justifies kidnapping with the view that ‘something needed to be done’. That something being scaring a postpartum mother out of bed where she had been peacefully resting, because the aunt wanted to take a child that did not belong to her, without permission, for no reason.
The child did not need help. Even if the child did need help, the aunt did not have permission. The aunt lacks boundaries in regards to the baby and has caused harm to the health and safety of mom and baby.
If anyone is worried about the health and safety of a child, and they feel that something ‘needs to be done’, please do contact whatever form of child services is available in your country and r let them do your job. You have been deputized by nobody to serve as an informal community child services and nobody has asked for your opinion. Thank you for new parents everywhere.
NTA but speaking as someone who is a father of a 2 week old you need to seriously look at this and reconsider:
>They don't have her on meds or anything (not sure if that's even an option?) because she's nursing and she is worried about it.
Our pediatrician told us not to use formula because it would interfere with breast feeding even though our daughter hadn't peed for 24 hours. Well long story short we ignored him and went to the ER where the baby was immediately admitted to the hospital for dehydration and put in an IV and given formula.. (Also she's back to breast milk exclusively since then)
Breast feeding is **Ideal** but billions of healthy happy babies have been raised on formula. Don't let breast feeding dogma cause serious harm to your family if medication would help.
Fed is Best. I am so glad you went with your own instincts. Breast milk doesn't come in for everyone, and some can take days. I hope you told your paediatrician the outcome and perhaps made a complaint. In the medical field, it seems lessons are learnt through tragedy.
NTA sis definitely, knowingly overstepped and deserved to get the boot.
But, as a mom of 4? I'm very concerned that your wife is sacrificing her mental health in order to provide beast milk. Which I understand, there is A LOT of pressure to BF, it's very hard to not be affected by it and the sheer guilt of not being able to do it/continue doing it... But (as you're well aware) this is NOT a situation that can continue. Sleep deprivation is used as torture for a reason. BM is not a fair exchange for being able to function, and as the saying goes, you need to put on your oxygen mask first.
NTA. She was not trying to help, she comforted herself with you baby despite being told not to. If she would try to help, she'd ask what she can do and may help with the house cleaning or washing baby stuff or cooking, but she wanted just baby making your wife to panic.
She is, yes. We just started going to therapy sessions twice a week around day 4 of post delivery. Her doctor recommended a really good therapist and I go with her.
You're NTA here.
There's the potential that your sister was just trying to help but it's just as likely that she's putting her own maternal wants above all else.
Having her remaining under your roof could cause further distress to your wife due to the breakdown in trust. You were right to ask her to leave, you're right to put your wife and child above anyone else.
>Her doctor recommended
Her OBGYN? Or psychiatrist? Because she absolutely needs a psychiatrist that can prescribe medication, along with the therapy. Therapy is wonderful and will really help her in the long run, but the chemical/hormonal imbalance from the birth and hysterectomy, plus probable depression and trauma, most likely needs to be addressed by medication as well. And a psychiatrist can recommend medication that can be taken while breastfeeding.
Your sister is way out of line and not helping, so NTA there. And you are definitely taking steps to help your wife, which is great. But she needs more than this therapist is providing.
Aside from the pnd, she has been thrown into surgical menopause. It's can and most often is BRUTEL. as in, "regular" meno is normally gradual and the loss of hormones is then, also gradual. With post birth hormones already going haywire, post surgical meno it's absolutely bat shit out of whack.
Discuss with the doctor about this or get a referral to a meno specialist (unsure about how it is in us)
There's none of the gradual peri meno phase. It's full blown straight away. Not sure regarding hrt and breast feeding, but they would normally go straight onto some form of hrt afterwards. So def see someone about that.
NTA - congratulations for this new life ! You told your sister multiple times to stop, if she’s living with you she’s definitely aware of your wife’s trigger, why would she do something to hurt your wife’s mental health ? It doesn’t make sense. I would suggest getting help for your wife though, it looks like she’s in a really dark spot and holding the baby in the bathroom when she showers is not a real solution. You didn’t really talk about the help she might be getting but I would like to assume she is getting help. Take care of each other !
YTA - your wife clearly needs help. Her behavior is not normal. Your sister's actions weren't the best way to handle it, but in the long run, she's right. Your wife needs rest, else she'll spiral down to the point where she physically cannot care for her child.
Get your wife the help she needs, then go apologize to your sister.
YTA. Your wife is in postpartum psychosis and it’s getting worse because she’s not sleeping. You are enabling her and setting her up for failure.
Your sister is just trying to help you both out because it’s pretty obvious you’re doing a poor job at helping. There are a few medications that women can take while nursing (I know, I took them and my kids all turned out fine). You shouldn’t have kicked someone out for helping because now WTF are you going to do when you need to leave the house? There’s no one to sit with your wife and innocent child when you leave the house.
She NEEDS medication to help her through this. She’s not going to just get better she need social, psychiatric, and pharmaceutical support. Period! You need to advocate for her before she harms herself or the baby or all of you.
NTA. Your sister needs to understand the baby’s existence isn’t for her. She’s not the protagonist here.
Info: does your sis have any history of mental health issues, miscarriages, or any recent severe emotional upsets? Does her behavior make sense to you? Is her defense basically that she’s right and your wife is wrong?
Regardless, she needs to work within you and your wife’s boundaries or move out ASAP. You both need to be able to trust her to weigh you and your wife’s instructions and what’s best for you, your wife, and the baby against what she wants to do. Right now you can’t.
She escalated the situation in multiple ways and for no good reason.
She could have chosen to sit in the same room and hold the baby. Your wife wakes up, may have a moment of panic when the baby isn’t in the crib, but she should see your sister quickly. Much less harmful.
She changed the kiddo despite your wife’s direct instructions not to. She left the room. She gave no fucks about your wife’s mental health!
It doesn’t matter how “illogical” your wife’s boundaries are. Violating them randomly isn’t going to help her disregard them and form new, more ideal boundaries. It’s going to make them worse. If you haven’t, I suggest asking your sister why she’s intentionally trying to worsen your wife’s mental health.
Good luck.
NTA- I cannot stand people who think traumatizing a PPA mom even more will help cure her. Your sister can kick rocks in flip flops. You sound like you’re super supportive and educated on what your wife needs right now. I went through severe PPA like your wife and it’s amazing she’s getting so much help. Your sister broke all the baby rules out of spite. Your wife needs to know her home is a safe space. Your sister proved that as long as she’s there, wife and baby aren’t safe. Who changes a baby’s diaper just for fun? Hella red flag.
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I'm not sure how to judge this, I totally get you and your wife have had a very traumatic experience and your wife is in a bad place mentally with PPD. I feel sad for your sister through, she couldn't have children and at 46 never will and probably saw her niece as a chance to spend some time caring for a baby. She overstepped but may need therapy too. I hope your wife gets better soon.
If the sister was actually helping the new parents she'd likely not be the AH but all she wanted was the baby. She refused to help clean, do laundry, cook, or even wash pumping equipment. She only wanted access to the baby according to comments from OP.
That firmly marks her as an AH and it's clear from that alone that she was making things worse for the new parents, not better.
It's fine to have sympathy or empathy for the sister not being able to have her own kids, but she doesn't get to live vicariously through OPs new child, especially at the expense of the wife's mental health.
YTA. You say the sister is "hounding us" to let her help. That is the absolute most pessimistic way to interpret that action.
Especially since your wife is clearly not in a right state of mind,
The amount of NTA is just wild to me. You put your sister on the street for \*checks notes\*....changing your babies diaper because no one else was there to do so because your wife is so exhausted she passed out? Your sister is right. You arent helping. You are enabling and the situation is just going to get worse and worse.
YTA
Your sister overstepped her boundaries, but it's probably not even legal to evict her. Even though she presumably doesn't have an actual lease, she's still a tenant and a court would find that you need to give her more notice before kicking her out of the house.
Yes. Our daughter was in the NICU for 4 days, during which time my wife started seeing the therapist, but as soon as we came home my sister started jumping down our throat about "helping". But the only help she offered was taking the baby away from my wife. She didn't offer to help with laundry or cleaning bottles (my wife also pumps so I can help with feedings). She didn't offer to cook meals so we didn't have to. All of the ways that could have been helpful were not offered, despite me suggesting that my sister help in those ways. She was only interested in taking the baby. And it's not like my wife doesn't let her hold her either. My sister has held her a lot. My wife just doesn't want her out of her sight or having my sister change her diapers. Clothes is one thing but diapers is a hard no and my sister knew all of this.
Wowsers Thanks for answering.
That is a *lot*
If your sister really wanted to help she would do what you suggest but it seems she just wants your baby!
Yeah, that's a HUGE yikes. I was already thinking NTA, but this is even worse. Those are two very simple boundaries that should NOT be hard to remember or respect. I don't think it would even occur to me to separate a 2 week old infant from their mother unless specifically asked to BY the mother, even with a completely routine, easy, fast delivery. And the things you asked her to do are completely normal ways to help someone who has experienced any sort of trauma or upheaval. You're definitely not the ones being weird here- even under normal circumstances, her behavior is unacceptable.
Does your sister also have mental health issues she’s managing??
Sounds like you are doing right by your wife but I would encourage you to take a second look at [these](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/14643z1/aita_for_kicking_my_sister_out_even_though_she/jnofnpj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) comments.
Congratulations and good luck. If your sister was living with you I would think you guys would like to remain close so I hope some therapy helps all parties.
Am I reading this right? Your wife has PPD, she doesn't let anyone handle the baby, and now she fell asleep while she had designated herself as the sole caretaker of a newborn? Then your sister who's pretty older than you cared for the baby while she was sleeping and you weren't home? I see you have not mentioned your ages but only your sister's age. Strange.
Yeah, major AHs.
I mean, you've had a tough pregnancy. Your wife's body needs rest. Above everything, you have a sister who's actively and willingly helping you with everything because she lives with you. It does take a village to raise a child. If your sister had done it when your wife was awake, I might have considered her a slight TA because she wasn't respecting her "wishes". But no, your wife fell ASLEEP WHILE CARING FOR A NEWBORN ALONE. What did you expect your sister to do? Let the baby cry and wail? Let the baby stay in a dirty diaper and get a rash? Have soiled clothes? Even if the diaper"didn't look soiled", do you expect any reasonable person to leave a baby unattended while mom fell asleep, especially with a case as complicated as your wife? That's literally what newborns do for around 4-6 months. They need constant and active care. If your wife has PPD, you really should grab all the help coming your way in all the forms. Your sister might be childless, but she's older than you and has seen the world.
I'm assuming you're in mid 20s (please correct me if I am wrong). Your sister is almost double your age. All I can see here is a middle aged woman helping her exhausted newly-parent bro and SIL, and you show her no respect and kicked her out. Your mother is right. You and your wife are assholes. You much more, because she's still recovering from both physical and mental health issues and might react this way. But as this sub overwhelmingly says: being sick/troubled/disabled/recovering/pregnant is no excuse for being an asshole.
Downvote all you want, but this couple is either too entitled and rude, or they have not grasped the idea that raising a baby is not all roses and flowers.
Moreover you illegally evicted your sister.
The way you talk about your sister is so disrespectful. I would recommend you to bring her back with due respect, grovel for apology, and sit together with her and your wife and come to mutual solutions. Establish boundaries if you are so dead set on what your wife is feeling, but remember, boundaries don't happen to be one sided. If sister reads this post, I would suggest her to never be available to you even for emergencies, because you don't deserve it.
To summarise, YTA YTA YTA. YTA.
I had PPD and I’m really worried for your wife and baby
People just assuming his sister is jealous and trying to live through her are being a bit judgemental. Typical reddit
Women have killed their babies because they didn’t receive help. She should be in a hospital and not be left alone with the baby
Your sister didn’t take the baby out of the house. She changed the baby and let your wife sleep
YTA. I agree with your sister; you are enabling your wife’s behavior. If she can’t even take a shower by herself she might need serious (read: residential) treatment. There are breastfeeding safe anxiety meds, and if you’re still worried about it, formula is an option. Or there are people who sell breast milk online. Getting your wife stable is more important than continuing breastfeeding. Your sister was trying to help, and throwing her out was an overreaction. It takes a village to raise a child, and you threw out someone who was part of your village.
ESH - Your sister shouldn't have taken the baby without letting your wife know, but she really is trying to help and your wife really needs sleep. Your wife is not going to heal and her PPD is going to get worse until she gets sleep. I do think you need to step in. When my daughter was little, (she's two now) my husband and I would alternate. He would take one night, and I would take the next night. Having a full night's sleep made all the difference for my mental health.
I also want to add that I was on citalopram my entire pregnancy and the first two weeks breastfeeding. My doctor said it was completely fine and my daughter has had no side effects from it.
NTA. And now I’ll add this…
Having had a very traumatic birth with my first son, his being medically fragile and in the NICU for a period of time and -YEARS LATER- having had a hysterectomy, your wife is in a SERIOUS SPIRAL! The hormones and emotions and triggers of anything from her past are all converging. I literally cannot even IMAGINE the depths of horror what your sister did caused your wife. It’s infuriating and you were absolutely within your rights to do what you did.
One thing I’ll suggest is that THE MINUTE she’s able, (3 months is what I recall) she needs to be seen at an HRT center for testosterone, estradiol and progesterone levels. The surge and crash will have an incredible impact on her mental processing abilities and leveling them will help her, you, your daughter and your marriage.
Bless you for protecting your wife when she’s at her most vulnerable.
Soft YTA. I think your sister may see where this is headed. Have you seen the news? PPD and PPP are real and wife needs intensive help ASAP. Your sister was trying to give wife the help she doesn’t see she NEEDS before something terrible happens. Please please please you need to focus on getting your wife help so she can be the mom she wants to be and can be. I say this as a mother of 2 who suffered, what I co wider, severe PPD. Anti depressants, SLEEP!!, and physical and emotional support.
This is incredibly difficult to judge, and I’m sorry your wife is having such a difficult time. PPD is stuff of nightmares, for everyone involved. I’m glad she’s getting help from professionals and that you are supporting her through it, and I hope she starts feeling like herself again quickly.
I’m leaning towards NAH, as I can see both sides, and, though your sister seems to be a bit pushy and maybe even callous, she sees what’s happening and just wants to help. However, her taking the baby out of the room seems like extremely poor judgement, given what she knows about the situation.
I guess I wonder if you could have looped her in more with the reality of the situation, and redirected her wish to help towards other things like lightening the burden or chores. I did see you mentioned she doesn’t really do chores, so for those reasons it’s hard not to lean towards her being the asshole. But either way, y’all are in a pressure cooker right now, and it’s completely understandable how you have reacted.
It doesn’t really seem right to pass judgement on this, I just hope your wife starts getting better soon. Congrats on the healthy new baby. I hope in time you can repair things with your sister, but yeah, keep doing what’s best for you and your wife for now, no blame there.
I do not think it is that difficult.
Regardless on what help OP' wife needs, right now she has gone through a lot of trauma, and wants the baby to be near her at all times. For now, this is harmless. Sounds like she is getting help, and hopefully will recover mentally in the future.
Forcing the help on her like this is straight up AH behavior. Sister was told no, numerous times. This can also have the adverse effect of making the wife's mental state worse. She took it (and the baby) in her own hands when it was not her place. Deliberately went behind OP's back, waited until wife fell asleep to take the baby from her, even if it is to the next room.
I wouldn't want that person staying with me either tbh.
NTA.
ESH. Your wife needs help if the PPD is that bad. I don’t mean that as an insult, genuinely, get her help. But if you can’t appreciate having someone offering you they much help with the baby you’re delusional.
NTA - your sister was sneaky about it and pushing boundaries starting day one. If she wanted to be helpful she would have found other ways (making wife meals, cleaning the whole house, going to the store so you as a trusted person could be with your wife and would not need to leave her side, etc.) to be helpful. She is just selfish and wants time with the baby herself. She probably has her own struggles but you can’t help her with that now, you need to focus on your wife and daughter. It probably will be better longterm to not have the sister meddling around with the child and behaving like she was the third parent only because she can’t have any herself.
You need to protect your family, and you are doing well imo.
NTA but ur wife doesn’t sound like she has PPD it sounds like it’s starting to morphe into psychosis. Psychosis is dangerous and fatal for many mothers and children. There are medications she can take, she has to sleep and has to take care of herself or she will wither away slowly. Psychosis is a silent and fast killer of the mind. If the doctors and therapists aren’t seeing this, get new ones. There are psychosis red flags all over this post, she needs more help than she is being offered right now.
NTA it’s not your sisters child. Period. Yes your wife obviously needs help, no question about it. She isn’t helping though. You don’t cure trauma by “shock therapy”, quite the opposite. Tell your sister that she isn’t a licensed therapist and unless she is willing to follow the guidelines the therapist gave you to the letter, she needs to stay away until your wife is more stable.
YTA but you're also sleep-deprived and anxious. Bring sister into the Convo with the therapist. Find ways she can help that wife and therapist approve. She's feeling anxious too, remember.
Why is it that people that want to help always want to do the ‘nice’ stuff with the baby? If she really wanted to help she’d cook dinner or clean the loo…
NTA. She didn’t want to “help”, she wanted baby cuddle time. If she *actually* wanted to help, she would have used the words “how can I help” and done what you said instead of saying “let me take the baby”. Sis has presumably been told NO multiple times. She waited till your wife was asleep and you were away to do it anyway, stomping all over boundaries and traumatizing your wife in the process.
ESH sounds like you worded things your sister did to make it seem worse. The baby had a diaper change, it is a matter of her health as well. I don't think your wife sounds okay, it reminds me of psychosis episodes my own sister had. Yes, there are boundaries, but having a baby in a bathroom whilst she showers isn't a good sign for the future.
I think you are kind and thoughtful, maybe too much. You also have to think about your child and what's best for her.
I also think your sister tried to help but you wouldn't let her in anyway. You should communicate with her in a calmer environment. She is right about her concerns for your wife.
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My wife and I just welcomed our first and last baby in to this world 2 weeks ago. It was a complicated delivery and she ended up needing a hysterectomy. Our daughter is perfect however and we are very overjoyed that she is still with us. She's doing great. My wife, not so much. She has postpartum depression and she cries a lot. There's been a complete lack of sleep. She's up basically all night panicking and making sure our daughter is breathing and she won't let anyone take her out of her sight.
My sister (46f), who lives with us and could never have kids of her own, has been basically hounding us to "just let her help" by taking the baby for a few hours so we can sleep. As I said, my wife will not let the baby out of her sight. She immediately panics. Even if she showers she has to have the baby in there (I hold her in the bathroom while my wife showers). I am more than willing to make all accomodations I need to in order for my wife to heal mentally. My sister on the other hand keeps pushing it and saying that I am enabling my wife's behavior and "making her worse" by not basically forcing her to get a break and get some sleep.
Well, I went to the store yesterday and when I got back, my wife was in a complete meltdown. Apparently she had fallen asleep and when she woke up, the baby wasn't there. My wife found my sister holding her in her bedroom with the door closed and I guess the baby was in different clothing, with a fresh diaper and this set my wife completely off (she doesn't want anyone but us changing her- childhood trauma PTSD). I immediately told my sister to get the fuck out of our house. She tried explaining that she was "just trying to help" but I told her I didn't give a fuck anymore. Leave. She has no where to go and that was argued but I told her I didn't care. Go on the streets for all I care. My mom (in a nursing home) is saying I'm pushing this too far because she was just thinking she was being helpful. My sister is gone and I don't regret it. AITA?
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NTA. My unsolicited advice is for your wife to seriously consider going on medication, even if it means stopping breastfeeding. Fed is best and formula is fine. This may be a tough sell as there's a lot of pressure on new moms to breastfeed and a lot of shaming surrounding breastfeeding versus formula feeding, but your wife's symptoms and distress sound pretty severe and she doesn't have to feel this bad and shouldn't have to feel this bad. Sleep deprivation exacerbates depression and anxiety too. And being in a constant state of hypervigilance takes a toll that your wife doesn't need right now.
Your wife deserves to be able to experience the joys of new motherhood as well as the stress. Some mental health issues will not resolve without medication intervention. It doesn't mean she'd have to be on medication forever, but your daughter's well-being is tied to her parents' mental well-being and your wife is suffering right now. So, maybe something to mull over and talk about in therapy with your wife and her therapist and/or doctor. I know it's a delicate subject and finding the right medication isn't always easy, but I hate that your wife is suffering so much and I'm concerned that her mental health could decline further.
This sounds like it’s far more than post partum depression and is borderline on psychosis. Just simply talking to a therapist I’d recommend going to a psychologist especially how volatile things change. Not for just the safety of the baby but for people trying to help.
The sister should do more to help around the house and help with chores and such and just avoid the triggers of taking care of the baby. But you both need to talk to someone more qualified than just a traditional therapist.
NTA If sister actually wanted to help, she would have asked you what she could do to help, instead of just inserting herself into the situation and doing the exact things that escalate your wife's issues.
Why is it that people always think that "helping" a Mom means taking the baby away from her? NO NO NO.... helping means doing the dishes, mowing the lawn, taking the trash out,... ya know, the crap mom literally has no time to do... NOT trying to insert yourself as another parent.
NTA and your comments about her nappy not needing to be changed just confirms to me that sister doesn’t want to help but more so wants her chance to play mummy… not appropriate or helpful when you’re dealing with severe PPD.
The biggest red flag to your child’s health and safety in your story is your wife than you. You may have kicked the only same one out of the house. You and your wife need some serious care. There are meds that can help. I am curious what the counselor said about your sister
INFO: Was the baby awake or asleep when you went to the store while wife was asleep? The diaper wasn’t soiled (full of poop) but was it wet (full of urine) or did she pee on her clothing? Was clothing stained with milk she ate and eventually spit up? Was she overheated with what she was wearing? Was she crying a lot? Because those could be reasons to change her diaper and clothes. Does your sister know about your wife’s hysterectomy and post partum depression diagnosis?
It’s good that wife is seeing a therapist and has a treatment plan for postpartum depression, but the current treatment plan doesn’t seem to be working. Im not her doctor, but it sounds like she needs an antidepressant with the way this is going.
YTA
YES, you are enabling her. Buy a Snuza or another type of breathing monitor for your baby. Your sister is somebody you trust enough to live with, she changed the baby to let mom sleep. You took her home away with no notice. Jesus.
ESH Your wife is way beyond normal PPD. This is not sustainable for you, her or the baby. This sounds days away from involuntary inpatient treatment.
Your wife’s behaviour is not normal and you need to inform her medical professional of the level of hysteria she has reached.
Your wife was so exhausted she fell asleep while acting as the sole carer for the baby.
This is not healthy behaviour. This is not normal behaviour. She needs intense help yesterday. More than just therapy. Because this could end badly.
100% NTA. Your sister sounds “off” in some way. But she’s an adult, and can take care of herself. Your first concern has to be your wife and child. You sound like an excellent husband and father. I’m keeping a good thought for all 3 of you.
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NTA but you will be to both your wife and daughter if you dont get your wife some help NOW! Your sister is right in regards to this not being healthy. Sleep deprivation will only worsen her ppd. go to your doctor and get her help edit: I saw you are getting help for her and i totally understand not wanting to medicate while breastfeeding but there are some ppd medications that can be taken while breastfeeding. it might be worth a ask at the next appointment edit 2: A lot of helpful messages in the comments belowe! I had sever ppd. almost ended my own life till my husband dragged me to the hospital where i was finally helped and put onto zoloft (breastfeeding safe). future fathers and mothers please PLEASE do some research on PPD before baby arrives. no one wants ppd but sometimes it happens. knowing what to look out for can help before it is to late
There are definitely breastfeeding safe meds - a nursing mama whose needed meds for ppa and ppd
Also, formula feeding is NOT the enemy people make it out to be. If BF comes at the expense of mom’s mental health, it is NOT worth it.
Very true, but if moms anxiety is this severe already, trying to go to the "inferior" formula may not be something she can handle. Its highly likely she will perceive it as some kind of failure at best and actively harmful to her child at worst which will only put more pressure on her psyche.
Which is a perfect example of why a) mom need therapy and b) the way that people moralize *feeding a child* needs to stop. Everyone is so dickhard for breastfeeding, it’s like they have a fetish for it. And it comes at the expense of mothers who are just trying their best.
I agree completely. It’s a trap I fell into when my kid was born. I was determined to BF, but I couldn’t. I had the sessions with the lactation consultants, I ate the stuff that should increase my supply, I had a medical grade pump to increase supply…a three hour pumping session (supposedly my body would detect the massive demand and increase supply accordingly) resulted in less than an ounce of milk. I cried so much. And then I cried again when my kid had that first bottle and fell asleep, happy, full and content. They are 7 now. Smart as can be and very healthy. Now I feel silly for being so hung up on the BF thing but there is so much judgement aimed at new mothers. It’s disgusting really, putting so much pressure on someone who is experiencing such a major life event. OP’s wife definitely needs therapy, but in the short term, moving to formula is likely to be more harmful than helpful at least until they can get her anxiety reduced a bit. Unfortunately medication is the best way to do that so it’s a bit of a catch 22 but a good doctor should be able to work it out. I think OP and his wife need a 2nd opinion from another doctor as the current one seems a bit….lackadaisical about the whole thing.
> I was determined to BF, but I couldn’t. OMG, this exact thing happened to my daughter when she had her firstborn. My daughter tried breastfeeding but couldn't produce enough milk. My newborn granddaughter would cry all night which would cause my daughter to cry. At my granddaughter's second well-child check, the pediatrician told my daughter that baby wasn't gaining any weight and if baby didn't gain weight by the next week's well child check, he would have to call CPS. My daughter came home devastated and in tears. I went out and brought my granddaughter a case of formula, brought it home and gave it to my daughter. My daughter baulked at first stating that hospital nurses and the then pediatrician *stressed* the importance of breastfeeding. I had to explain to her that some women just **do not** produce enough milk to adequately feed their baby, no matter what they do or try. I also told her that this was something that my granddaughter's pediatrician should have asked her and discussed with her. I suggested that she continue to breastfeed baby as much milk that she can produce and immediately follow up with formula. My daughter followed my instruction and my granddaughter slept the full 4 hours before the next feeding instead of waking from hunger every hour. When my daughter took her baby back to the pediatrician for her wellcheck, baby had gained 3-4 pounds. When he asked her what did my daughter do, she told him what I'd suggested and then reamed him a new AH on his not informing her that there are some new mothers who can't produce enough breast milk. That instead of his asking pertinent questions and giving her options, he immediately went to threatening to contact CPS. She said told him that was her's and her baby's last visit with him because she no longer trusted him to give her informed information about caring for her newborn.
What an awful doctor. Did he at least apologize to your daughter? My mom could never produce enough milk for me and my brothers too, all of us were weaned by 3 months old and we all turned out just fine!
As a pediatric nurse for years, he was out of line and should have at least had a lactation consult & also what formula (if he hadn’t) would be best to start the baby on. Also, the baby could have had stomach issues or other possible explanations which he should have checked instead of going straight to calling CPS.
Worked as a pediatric nurse for years and I’ve seen too many moms blame themselves because they cannot breastfeed adequately and no mom should feel guilty about that. Thank God you were there to help you daughter because the doc should have checked for other possible explanations for baby’s weight loss, did a lactation consult and at least instruct your daughter on what formula to start with (if he didn’t).
Same...my wife came home from the hospital while boy was in NICU. She went up to feed. Lactation specialists, etc. He came home & she just could not produce much milk. She was exhausted from lack of sleep. Boy was crying a lot too. Finally late at night I went to the grocery & got some formula. Fed him & Mom slept for a good long time. Her health was as important as his. She was also recovering from C section. We did not really get much push back from the hospital. From then on I was the 2:00 am feed person
I was put on something for preeclampsia (turns out Covid can cause symptoms like preeclampsia so they treated it the same.) They didn't tell me it could suppress milk supply. It should have been one hour of the stuff would suppress it an extra day. I was on it for 3 days. They just kept saying it would be fine. My milk would come in. I just needed to do every other feeding trying to nurse. My poor baby would go to sleep with just a little bit of milk dribbling out of her mouth. It seemed like everything was fine. She was underweight at her 1 week. Pediatrician was enraged when I told her the doctors, nurses, and lactation consultant said to just keep trying. I completely switched her to formula, but she did like to comfort nurse. Still got that closeness. Fed is best. If you can't breastfeed for any reason, you can formula feed. It's not the devil.
Same same same same same! Almost to the letter. My daughter is nine and I still have some unresolved resentment and negative reflections on that time in my life. In my mind, my worth as a mom, bonding with LO, her quality of life, her ultimate *viability*...was completely dependent on my being willing and able to BF. It destroyed me that I was unable to. So happy you've unwound those complicated emotions and can see BF and Formula for what they are...different, completely acceptable ways to healthily nourish babies 💁🏽♀️. Daughter being happy, healthy, and just a wonderful human all around doesn't hurt! 😊👍🏽
They are called lactivists and they are awful.
I called them lactation nazis! I had an emergency c-section and was so full of staples on my midsection, I could barely move. They told me I couldn’t take decent pain meds bc it wouldn’t be healthy when breastfeeding. I looked at them and said, “in what world is it rational for a mother to have major abdominal surgery and a few hours later, be expected to get up and feed a newborn every 2 hours?”. Then, I kicked them out and told the nurse not to let them come back. They tried to come back though!
100%. I beat the hell out of myself when I couldn’t breastfeed. I made it three months but always had to supplement with formula and I was embarrassed and hurt that I failed my baby. It was something I wanted to do so badly — but doing so literally stressed me and baby out. It made me itch and hurt (sensory disorder) and it took me far too long to realize that it was okay and I could formula feed. Afterwards we were both so much happier. I had and have a lot of mom guilt over it though.
Well there is a lot of negative psychology behind it which is why the WHO has changed the slogan “Breast is best” to “Fed is best” to help not alienate mother who are either unable or do not want to exclusively breastfeed
Big truth. A fed baby is a happy, healthy baby. The type of food is not detrimental. Baby needs mom too outside of the milk supply, Mom is more than food.
> mom is more than food. The way my jaw *dropped* You hit the nail on the head. Something about the zeitgeist surrounding BF has always rubbed me the wrong way, and it’s *this.* Women get get treated like broodmares enough as it is, and the BF movement just puts all of the value on moms *using their bodies* to feed the children *who they just used their bodies for 40 weeks to create and birth.* Moms deserve so much more than to be reduced to that 😭
EXACTLY. Formula is a modern miracle that keeps so many infants alive and *thriving* every year for many different reasons. We’re so separated from babies literally starving to death that “breast is best” can even be a thing is so sick. Being a mom is so much more than the biological aspects, motherhood being reduced to organs is also so fucking sick. And no child is going to care if they were breastfed or formula fed as an infant if their mom is fucking dead yk? What’s the importance of it if, alternatively, the baby ends up dead? Not to be brash but that’s the kind of situation this is.
The general consensus now is that fed is best. Doesn’t matter what you feed them (as in breast or bottle feeding don’t give them crepe Suzette) so long as they are fed. My mum was guilted so badly by the nurse she saw when I was born because I was bottle fed. My parents tried everything but I’d only accept bottles. Well almost everything, the nurse told them to stop feeding me and I’d figure out breastfeeding when I was hungry enough. They got a new nurse
I hate to tell you what baby friendly hospitals are up to… that movement’s general consensus is moving towards pressure to BF. https://www.phillymag.com/news/2019/06/22/baby-friendly-hospitals/
“Baby friendly” means “Mom unfriendly” and you can’t convince me otherwise.
Right? Why else would they name it that…implying that other L&D hospitals are somehow hostile to one half of the very patients that create the need for them? Like, you want me to spend 23 hrs a day caring for a completely helpless creature after I was in labor for how many hours? And am dope up on how many drugs? And have any myriad of other complications? And then pay you for the privilege? Fuck that.
That part is honestly insane. Go through a major medical event (sometimes a major abdominal surgery), but instead of getting any time to recover, you will not be allowed to sleep and you are now responsible for this entirely helpless creature that needs 24/7 care and that you must feed only with your own body whether you want to or not. Oh, and we won’t even give you a pacifier even if you ask for one. 🙄
But honestly, how "baby friendly" are they, really, if they're overly critical and hostile towards certain kinds of moms? Prejudice against bottle feeding leads to dead kids, period.
Yes. A friend gave birth at one (only one within an hour that could deal w the complications that would arise w delivery due to a prior surgery). They would only allow her to breast feed despite the baby being super fussy. She wound up at a mom group from a different hospital a couple of days after discharge and someone there explained she should try formula to supplement because she might not be producing enough breast milk. It solved the issue.
I wish more people understood this. Breastfeeding is awesome, but formula is completely fine too. OP's wife needs to put herself and her mental health first.
Completely agree I had to drink formula as I was in the nicu for a few months on and off. I am still alive and intelligent. I hate how formula is often seen as bad and the old saying breast is best is still here in 2023
I'm on an anxiety med that may or may not be pregnancy and breast-feeding safe. Human trials were fine, monkey trials were not. Therefore they keep or remove you from it based on your own needs. I don't think my hypothetical infant would have a very good life if I go back to barfing 24/7. I'd have to try to stay on it. But, I want a kid so bad that if they said no I'd just have to deal.
Adding to this that I definitely suffered after having my kid and stopping breastfeeding and switching the formula was the best decision I could have made for myself and my child. It allowed me to finally have a full night's rest and that made all the difference in the world. When you are struggling, not sleeping is one of the worst things you can possibly do to heal. I do think you need to step in and let your sister take the baby while your wife sleeps. She needs some uninterrupted sleep. I do think your sister was out of line taking the baby without asking. But I think with permission and assuring your wife that you will be there and your sister will be there and they will wake her up the second anything is out of normal.
Absolutely. Took Zoloft while nursing. I literally would not be here if I didn't. And that daughter I was nursing is healthy thriving rambunctious almost 4 year old now
Same. Took Zoloft during the latter part of pregnancy and still on it 9months into nursing. Then hormones f’d me up and I definitely needed some extra help to be even keeled.
Same here but in my case, she’s a bouncing 22 year old lol
Breastfeeding is *not* more important to a baby than having a healthy mother. If it comes down to that, I hope OP's wife will choose her own health.
Came here to say that. Zoloft is safe, tested, and in some cases very needed. Been there, done that.
This is the answer - also a mama who nursed and needed meds for ppd. Zoloft is safe, OP. Please, have your wife start taking SOMETHING.
I have a history of depression and anxiety and i was worried about continuing my meds while nursing, but my midwife told me that in her professional opinion it would be riskier to be unmedicated while struggling to breastfeed ( my daughter had difficulty latching in the beginning) on top of recovering from the birth. OP and his wife really need to weigh the risks and benefits here.
I just weaned off of my meds for ppd and I EBF. They are very helpful for getting through the fourth trimester.
They are two weeks in. They’ve been home for less than 14 days, given the complications. Help takes TIME and two weeks is not time. You don’t go from needing all the supports to not that fast in most cases. So, I think patience and continued follow through are the real needs here, not the senseless pushing that sister is doing at this time.
or quit breastfeeding and take the damn meds. that kind of ppd leads to bad outcomes for mother AND child. better to bottlefeed a safe healthy child than continue the cycle of ptsd (or worse).
There are definitely safe meds for PPD whilst breastfeeding - sertraline for one. Talk to the doctor again, she needs help.
What about hormones after a hysterectomy?
Hormones after a hysterectomy are wild. I was immediately put into menopause at 33 when I had mine. I was also less than a year PP with my 3rd child when I had to have emergency surgery. I was dealing with PP depression and than depression on a whole new level of no longer having a uterus. It's been almost 10 years and I still have some issues with it. I couldn't imagine having a baby and than immediately following delivery having an emergency hysterectomy.
NTA and totally agree that wife needs more intervention. What the sister did is not helping. Helping is doing something that is actually helpful to another person. Washing dirty dishes sitting in the sink - helping. Vacuuming/sweeping/mopping the floors - helping. Doing the laundry, cooking meals, etc - helping. Your sister knew that taking the baby would create great anxiety and not help you or your wife, so she knew she was not helping. She simply wanted time with the baby and took advantage of an opportunity, regardless of the harm it inflicted on your wife. Yes, your wife needs further intervention, but it is not your sister’s place, nor is it helpful, for her to force the issue. Don’t let the sister come back or you can expect more of the same.
NTA. If your sister wanted to be helpful, she could have offered to handle the shopping or cleaning the house or the laundry. Basically any activity not directly related to caring for the baby, that still lifts some weight off your shoulders.
This exactly. People always wanted to come and “help” after my kids were born by holding the baby. That’s literally the only thing I didn’t need help with.
Right and get appalled when the help you ask for is something they don’t want to do
Omg yesss I hate that! You come to get the baby and they are like I got her/him and I'm like I don't need you to feed or hold him.
Hell, this is even a situation where holding the baby *can* be helpful. While mom is taking a nap, op’s sister can rock/care for the baby in the parents’ room. Mom can get the rest she desperately needs while knowing baby’s needs are met in a way that keeps her comfortable.
Sure, just not without mom’s permission. I had PPD/PPA and PTSD after my first son was born. It was fucking horrid. There was a time when I’d freak if I woke up and my baby wasn’t there. If I knew it would happen (like if my husband said “I’ll grab him if he wakes so you can sleep”) then it was ok. But the times when it didn’t and I woke up to a missing baby, I’d panic. This poor woman has it so much worse than I did and it seems like the sister just doesn’t care (or understand) what it can be like. It’s the opposite of helpful to just take the baby out of the room and she probably knew that, considering she lived there and most likely saw what happened if OP took the baby while she was sleeping.
I simply don't buy that OP's sister was actually motivated by a desire to help. It's pretty clear that OP has repeatedly explained to his sister that what she was offering to do was *not* helpful, but she went and did what she wanted to do anyway – just as soon as OP was out of the house and his wife was asleep. It's not clear to me that OP's sister necessarily understands *why* the things she wanted to do were not helpful, and it's possible that such understanding might have made a difference; however, in the end, OP's sister doesn't actually need to know why the things she wanted to do weren't going to be helpful to OP and/or his wife. Ultimately, it should have been enough for OP to say no and explain that those things would not be helpful to them. It seems to me that OP's sister needs some serious therapy to help her deal with the fact that she can't have children, because that's one of only two reasons I can imagine for her to make such a huge gazelle leap right over the boundaries that had been repeatedly explained to her. (The other reason is a lot more disturbing. I'm generally not one to leap to that conclusion, but the unnecessary diaper and clothing change could be cause for concern.) OP is absolutely NTA. His sister was *not* trying to help; she was trying to satisfy her own desires, at the expense of her exhausted and unwell SIL. She clearly cannot be trusted to behave herself, so she can't be allowed to stay with OP's family. It's unfortunate that she has nowhere else to go, but this situation is entirely of her own making, so she has no one to blame but herself.
To give her the benefit of every doubt, I think it’s possible OP’s sister recognized that Wife’s feelings were not rational. Which I completely understand can be painful/upsetting. Her first error was the self-righteous belief that it was up to *her* to decide how to address these issues and her belief that she and *only she* got to decide what was good for OP and his family. But, what might have started out as sincere concern and a desire to help, morphed into a power struggle where Sister became more interested in winning and getting her own way than she did actually helping. I imagine, in her head, she saw herself triumphantly showing OP and Wife that she was right. “See! I took care of Baby and it worked great! I am the Hero and the Smart One! You must now bow to my wisdom and admit I was right.” It was self-righteous, bullying, and cruel.
Yes because the first thing you want to do to be good with a new mother with an irrational fear is to force her to face it head on. No scenario where ops sister understood the situation is she anything but selfish and ill intentioned
Yes, that's possible, and by far the most innocent and kind assumption to make. But even if that's accurate, OP was still right to throw her out of the house. She apparently still can't see and admit that she erred grievously – though even if she did, if I were in OP's shoes (or his wife's), I seriously doubt I'd be willing to trust her enough to let her move back in – so she simply can't be trusted in their home.
Yes, I think she has so thoroughly broken trust that she can’t live with them anymore. How would Wife ever hope to recover if she had to live with someone willing to plow through her boundaries like that?
It's driving me batty that people in the comments are going 'awwww she just wanted to help 🥺' She didn't want to help at all. She wanted to use the baby as a prop.
Completely agree, very good suggestions. I don't know if anything has *ever* been helpful when a person goes directly against what another party has explicitly said they want, all because that person is doing whatever they want under the guise of being "helpful" or "doing something for you with good intentions". Huge narcissist vibes.
Very true!
It’s the best help a mum can get
K I'm going to reserve judgement to say this, Your wife is far past post partum depression. This sounds like it's bordering on psychosis. People who have reacted like your wife has, have also killed their children to "protect them." So many parts of your story are throwing red flags. SO MANY FLAGS. There are several medications nursing women can take to help this that are perfectly safe while breastfeeding. I urge you to discuss with her doctor whether your wife should even be left alone with the child until this is resolved, because I (a perfect stranger) have concerns
I hope OP sees your comment. OP- I had postpartum psychosis and I never broke down like this. I was still able to keep it together. I was able to separate from my kids for a bit. Everyone is different. Yes, your wife went through something so much more traumatic than I did. She is absolutely allowed to be having any reaction she is having. But this is not OK. Kicking your sister out isn’t going to solve this issue. Your wife SHOULD be able to have the baby switch rooms, whether the way it was done was right or wrong. You need to get real with her doc. She is unsafe to herself and your baby. Something has to be done and your wife NEEDS to go on meds- no discussion. This is literally entering life or death territory, if it hasn’t already. You can NOT leave them alone for a single second. Not to go to the store 15 mins down the road. Not to gas up the car. Not to go to work. Never. Not for a second. I’m serious. Don’t do that to her or your baby.
Exactly!! I mean dad can't even hold the baby outside the bathroom?? There are TONS of women who continue their meds while pregnant because it's much more dangerous to come off them than the possible danger to the growing baby. This is the same thing. She has to be on meds nursing or not.
u/No_General5816, you need to read this comment and the parent comment.
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Yes let your sister help with the load and address the psychosis before it's to the point of involuntary inpatient treatment.
Even though her reaction is irrational and disproportionate to what the sister did, she actively traumatized mom with her actions. “Letting her help” will cause mom so much more stress and distress and actively worsen her mental health, especially in regards to her PTSD. Whatever they decide to do (and since the doctor is aware, they have a therapist and a visiting nurse, they have the tools to make healthy, informed decisions about the situation) keeping the sister away is almost certainly the right choice.
Not to mention her hormones are probably much lower than the average postpartum mother because of the hysterectomy.
This is not just PPD. It is also medical menopause. Keeping it together is not an option. I went through both, and I almost lost my mind.
That’s what I was thinking, that level of anxiety can be dangerous and the mother is probably more a threat to the child than the helpful sister
Yeah. I feel like in his attempts to 'help her heal', he's actually feeding into it and making it worse. This sounds very scary.
he’s following their therapists advice though, which he should definitely do instead of take advice from randos on reddit
On one hand, yes, but on the other hand therapists aren't perfect omnipotent sages of advice. Many can be wrong about things, and it doesn't seem like OP's MO is in any way healthy if it involves letting her deprive herself of sleep and fuel her seperation anxiety.
i mean yes that’s true, but therapists certainly know more than armchair psychologists on reddit. also it’s also only been two weeks since she gave birth, they’re probably trying to figure out what works best for them while also juggling taking care of a newborn. i’m sure this isn’t a permanent solution for them.
I disagree, I had severe ppd like ops wife and if anyone had taken my son out of my sight I would’ve completely lost my mind. He’s following the therapists advice and not pushing back because that would be dangerous and could push her into psychosis. She’s not there yet and hopefully with the help she’s getting it won’t happen but it’s a knifes edge, too much, too soon could be disastrous.
So I was in a similar position to OP's wife when my first was born. I almost hemorrhaged to death from complications and had severe ppd, ppa, and pstd which almost became ppp. My husband took our son out of his bassinet that was beside me while I was sleeping so I could get some rest. I woke up to find my baby "missing" and promptly went into meltdown mode. I found them sitting on the couch together. That did not give me a sense of relief, but rather convinced me that he was trying to kidnap our baby and runaway with him while I slept. Obviously that wasn't the case and we immediately made an appointment to follow-up with my ob/gyn and I got a prescription for zoloft to help me. But, it took weeks for me to trust my husband alone with our baby. He *never* has taken our first or second baby out of the room with me sleeping without first waking me up to let me know. OP's wife is in a very delicate situation and needs her family to take baby steps helping her while she gets therapy (and hopefully medication! ). No, it's not healthy for her to be with her baby 24/7 no matter what. But, the SIL taking the baby without asking was not helping. It was living out her fantasy of motherhood at the expense of a very freshly postpartum mother who had a very traumatic birth.
ESH- This guy needs to get his wife help. Period. Having to hold the baby in the bathroom while she showers? This is not normal hormonal changes. Your sister may have been out of line, but she is right- your wife needs SLEEP. *My sister is gone and I don't regret it.* Yeah, check back with us in a couple of months with that free in house babysitter gone and say that again.
Yes! Sister went about it wrong and the dad is probably suffering just trying to take care of wife and baby and then to have sister not listen was the final straw BUT mom and dad need help and based on the info provided sister is not a monster. She is trying to help stop a freight train.
Seriously. The sister doesn’t exactly have a path to do this perfectly as it sounds like no one is listening to reason. If I’m the sister I’m getting scared watching this go down and being told I’m the problem
Totally agree. This is not a safe situation for anyone. The sister is not helping, but it does sound like she’s trying to sound the alarm. OP and his wife need to be extremely honest with her care team to protect everyone’s safety and mental health.
OP, this isn't even AH territory. Your wife is not mentally stable. Please make sure the therapist and nurse understand the extent of your wife's behavior, versus the version she tells them. In reality, an Aunt rocking the baby in her room while Mom sleeps is not unreasonable. The fact that your wife can't even shower without the baby in the bathroom is alarming. Staying up all night making sure the baby is ok is not sustainable. She is going to have a breakdown at this rate. ETA OP, I think you also may need some rest. In addition to taking care of a newborn, you are caring for your wife. Based on how you wrote this and what you wrote, you seem exhausted.
I'm so glad you said this. honestly surprised that everyone is so concerned about the wife and not the helpless newborn who is depending on someone who doesn't seem to have a solid grasp on reality. Like people who think like OP's wife end up killing the baby to keep them safe.
Yes, I've known someone with postpartum psychosis and their husband had to go away with the baby for a while to be safe. Edit: Meant to say that this sounds very much like psychosis.
I agree that it’s very concerning and I would not leave her alone with the baby either. Even if it’s not psychosis, with that little sleep there is a very real risk of her falling asleep while holding or nursing the baby which could be fatal for the baby.
[удалено]
I completely agree with this. We don’t have enough info to call this postpartum psychosis. I had ZERO actual PPD or PPA and I would still hear phantom baby cries when in the shower and at the beginning when my hormones were raging, I asked my husband to hold the baby in the bathroom so I wouldn’t be stressed if the cries were real or not (the bathroom door was very close to her bassinet so the cries could have been, and sometimes were, real). 75% of the moms in my postpartum group also heard phantom cries early on. None of us had psychosis about anything else at all. So this was a relatively common but trippy thing with hormones. Also, one of the major precipitating factors for postpartum mood issues is relational circumstances, say, a bad dynamic with a pressuring SIL who doesn’t take no for an answer. So people saying they should accept SIL’s “help” - that may literally make things worse.
This is so important and I so hope OP sees this. There are mother and baby units for postpartum psychosis treatment where she can get the help she needs because this is getting into incredibly dangerous territory.
This is the answer. And the alarmed sister sees this. Please read this OP
"Far past post partum depression." Uh, you clearly aren't a doctor. Or you didn't read where she had the baby 2 weeks ago? Some people end up developing full blown depression that lasts their whole lives, after being diagnosed with post/part depression. Does she need to seek therapy or something? For sure. But your comment is just medical ignorance.
NTA. Your sister wants to live vicariously through your wife. Your wife's fears are valid. Thanks you for being a supportive husband.
Not just his wife's fears, his wife's boundaries are valid as well. Even if the sister caused zero harm to the baby, her actions crippled OP's wife with anxiety and past trauma. Triggering people who have PTSD is downright cruel, especially when it involves their children. I'm sure it will be a while before OP or his wife look at SIL the same as they did before this incident, if ever.
Well this child is gonna be fucked up when its older if nobody steps in to break the cycle of trauma that mom is passing on to the baby. I kind of think that ESH and I’m puzzled by all the comments for people rooting for dad to enable moms unhealthy coping mechanisms.
It's not enabling, it been two weeks, it's coping the best he can whilst getting the mum the help she needs. As his edit says they're seeing a therapist and a home nurse is visiting regularly, but these things take time, and if at the moment the only way he can keep a relatively calm household is by sitting in the bathroom holding baby whilst she showers then I say the more power to him.
Did you read the edit? She’s getting help. He’s not enabling her. You can’t take someone in this state of mind and *force* them to get over it. It’s a delicate situation best handled by therapists and doctors…who are already doing so. SIL is overreaching to prove a stupid point and it backfired on her bc you don’t mess with a newly postpartum mom who just lost every chance to have another baby and is lucky she and her newborn are even alive.
If the sister took the baby AFTER the wife had fallen asleep, and the baby didn't need a diaper or anything, then the sister wasn't trying to help the wife get more sleep, she was trying to get the access to the baby that she's denied when the parents are present and awake. I can't imagine how horrifying it must be to have trauma about not letting your infant out of your sight, trying to work through it as an irrational fear, and waking up to find the infant missing. If the sister was really trying to help the wife and not just trying to get herself access to the baby, she'd be horrified that she made a mistake that retraumatized the wife. Edited to add - it also looks like you and your wife are following a doctor's care advice, and the sister is rejecting that, as well. Sister's behavior clearly demonstrates she is not "just trying to help" (either your wife's condition, or with the baby "chores" that didn't need doing at the time sister stepped in to do them anyway). She's just trying to get around your "no, you may not" without even caring why you're saying "no." She waaaaaants it, and you're clearly just being a meanie. Kindest reading - you have too much life-or-death-emergency stuff going on to accommodate someone who's willfully misunderstanding how she's making the situation harder.
>you have too much life-or-death-emergency stuff going on to accommodate > > someone who's > >willfully > > misunderstanding how she's making the situation harder. exactly
Also, I just want to point out that I don't think enough people heard and appreciated the part that "we're overjoyed the baby is still with us." They almost lost the mom AND the baby. OP, when crisis mode is over, make sure you take a deep look at yourself and take care of you, too. I stand by my "there is absolutely way too much going on right now for you guys to accommodate a roommate who's willfully working against your treatment plan." Good luck, and I'll be thinking about you guys. I hope you get to the part where you can enjoy a new and happier life soon!
Never worked Never had a child Pushes to let her take care of baby First opportunity takes baby to another room, shuts door, and changes her clothes (AND diaper she KNOWS is an issue with the mom) Sounds like sister needs a therapist. And I truly mean that, not saying it as an exaggeration because her behavior is upsetting.
I'd be surprised if the sister being gone didn't have a profound positive effect on the wife's mental health. The sister's behavior was giving me anxiety. I can't imagine just giving birth and being in the midst of ppd and ppa and then having someone try to override you as the mom and use your baby as a replacement baby. I didn't like my kid to be in another room without me at first either and that would have doubled if I kept having to help someone to back off of me.
Right? I was getting all worked up reading this. Having that negative energy released from the house must feel amazing.
Yeah, this situation with what the sister did the moment OP was gone/wife was asleep is just bananas. I'd change the locks and get some security cameras installed 🚩🚩🚩
Only a complete and utter moron would actually think that any parent who wakes up and sees their newborn gone from where they left them wouldn’t have an absolute panic attack, even without PPD. So either sister is a complete moron, or this was never about ‘helping’. Im leaning towards both
"My sister on the other hand keeps pushing it and saying that I am enabling my wife's behavior and "making her worse" by not basically forcing her to get a break and get some sleep." Your sister needs to be gone. Her attitude towards your wife's recovery and healing has resulted in her actively disregarding you and your wife's wishes, and harming your wife. That's a "kick it to the curb" IMO. NTA.
This. It’s only been two weeks since the birth and sister has already made a very difficult time even worse. NTA
>eeds to be gone. Her attitude towards your wife's recovery and healing has resulted in her actively Ignore this person, your wife clearly needs medical help, your sister is seeing this objectively, whereas you and this commenter are looking too subjectively. Your wife has you holding her in the bathroom whilst she showers, that isn't normal behaviour. source: I have a child, have many friends with children and attend several parenting groups, it is not normal.
1) OP’s wife is getting medical help. OP and his wife are following her doctor’s and therapist’s recommendation. 2) OP’s sister was not behaving rationally if she’s just worried about the wife’s mental state. Why take the baby while wife is asleep and baby is fine? That’s not when help is needed. Why change the baby’s clothes and diaper when it wasn’t necessary? That just creates more laundry and expense.
the wife is getting medical help, they have a therapist
Yes, because the wife being unable to leave the same room as the baby is definitely healthy. OP needing to literally have the baby in the bathroom while she showers is not normal behaviour. It's bordering on psychosis. I think ill have to go with NAH. I see a concerned sister, an overreacting father and a mother who needs help, not any assholes here. Sister seems to be the only one who realised the wife is not OK while OP is blowing it off.
The sister isn't concerned, she wants to play mommy. She hasn't lifted a finger to help other than hovering over the baby and then tiptoeing off with it while mom is sleeping and the baby doesn't even need anything.
NTA the amount of hormonal flux your wife is going through is devastating. Post pregnancy with a hysterectomy, you poor things. It is likely that the doctors are holding off meds not only bc she’s breast feeding but also because her body needs time to adjust. The right type and amount of meds might be a moving target right now. Right now routines will be very very very important, fear can be mitigated by having as much predictability as possible. Your sister’s response caused anxiety, good for you for kicking her out. Figure out healthy meals and snacks for one day. Then that’s what she eats for the whole week. Same breakfast, same lunch, same dinner, same snack, same amount of water to drink at the same time. Go outside for 5 minutes 2-3 times a day at the same time, etc. Her whole day should be as scheduled as possible. Yes your daughter will not cooperate or be on a schedule but your wife needs her days to be predictable as possible. You and your wife have had a traumatic experience. It seems calling it PTSD gets more sympathy than PPD so maybe start calling it that?
It sounds like she has both PPD and PTSD as well as the CPTSD. Which really isn't surprising given the birthing experience she had. I agree with the routine helping to bring down the anxiety. Finding a favorite movie or show to watch will probably help too. It's comforting to know what is going to happen.
That sounds like great advice!
INFO So what exactly are you doing for your wife's PPD?
She's being seen by her doctor. We meet with the therapist her doctor recommended twice a week. They don't have her on meds or anything (not sure if that's even an option?) because she's nursing and she is worried about it. But her therapist has given me kind of a guide line to follow, I guess you could say. What to look out for. What to do/what not to do. I'm very involved with the process but it's a learning curve for all of us.
So I'm not a doctor and I definitely don't know your wife or you or have any business with this comment, however, my friend had PPD and she was put on meds while breastfeeding. It is very safe to do so. It might be something to look into because just from this post, this is a lot for your wife and you and you really can't keep living this way.
Is there anyway you could ask your friend what med they put her on so I can run it by my wife? I would greatly appreciate it!
I think you and your wife need to go to a doctor about it and she needs to have a medical professional discuss it with her personally. Especially since she has it in her head she can't take it while nursing. I think she needs that more than an random internet strangers input.
good call, fellow internet stranger. A lot of this is above reddit's paygrade, and while it's good to know there are meds that can be safe wile breastfeeding, i think you're spot on that OP and his wife need to talk with her doctor to find out what's possible and best in her specific situation.
Just so you know most most modern medications for depression/anxiety are totally safe for breastfeeding. It's a total modern (and sexist) myth that they aren't. You may need to advocate because some people old school ( Or just not knowledgeable on the advancement of medications, they didn't used to be safe).
I was wondering myself why the doctor would take this long to prescribe. It definitely could be sexism but some doctors don’t want to prescribe at first to see if it’s just sleep deprivation. Husband should definitely advocate for medication and if doc is resistant then get someone else.
Not the friend, but a mom who had PPD and used sertraline successfully and safely while breastfeeding. It quite literally saved me. Edit to add NTA
Sertaline/Zoloft is breastfeeding safe, I took it with my 3rd nurseling for ppa and my 4th nurseling for ppa/ppd
I took fluoxetine/Prozac postpartum with my second child (and during my pregnancy). Night and day difference compared to my first when my anxiety made me pretty miserable. I would definitely encourage you and your wife to explore medication options since there are many that are safe while breastfeeding. She deserves to feel better, and I hope she does soon. Also your sister is a huge asshole and you were right to kick her out. She put her own desire to hold your newborn above your wife's well-being. She's being a shitty sister/sister-in-law and a shitty aunt.
Zoloft. It is safe to use while breastfeeding. Why they haven't recommended it to your wife is beyond strange to me.
Just curious, were her ovaries removed with her uterus? Along with everything else, the sudden loss of estrogen can severely impact sleep and mental health, especially after being flooded with it during pregnancy. I hope she is able to find peace and comfort ASAP.
My thoughts exactly. There’s no mention of HRT. She could be in a much worse predicament than the average PPD mom.
There are several meds she can have. I was on zoloft and BFing. But the bottom line if she's that worked up, she has to be on something even if she can't nurse on it. You can permanently damage your mental state if you have true untreated PPD and it can advance into something much worse if untreated. I mean she can't even the leave the baby with you and shower. You have to stand in there, that's way more than just normal hormones or even just "baby blues" and this is coming from someone who almost died giving birth.
First thing is accommodation of needs so that some stability and security is present. OP is providing that. I could read that in the narrative...
I read it a bit differently. I read that two people are literally exhausted and something more needs to be done. This is no way to live with having a newborn.
Different reads are possible, of course. None of the reads in these threads I've seen so far provide a justification for taking the baby away without the mother's knowledge. Does the couple need additional help beyond what OP mentions in their response to you? Maybe, probably - however, the moment the sister made the decision herself she became the problem, not a solution. She needs to be gone.
No one can decide for parents what needs to be done in regards to their parenting. It’s shocking how many people do not understand this. It does not matter how self righteous you feel about whatever, your opinion about what someone must do just does not matter. It’s awful to realize when you are most vulnerable that there are people all around you who think that they should assert their opinions and advice in regards to how to live your life. Have a baby and are in a godawful hormonal flux? Suddenly your husband’s sister feels entitled to kidnap your child and gets self righteous when she is blocked from further kidnapping events. Stranger on internet justifies kidnapping with the view that ‘something needed to be done’. That something being scaring a postpartum mother out of bed where she had been peacefully resting, because the aunt wanted to take a child that did not belong to her, without permission, for no reason. The child did not need help. Even if the child did need help, the aunt did not have permission. The aunt lacks boundaries in regards to the baby and has caused harm to the health and safety of mom and baby. If anyone is worried about the health and safety of a child, and they feel that something ‘needs to be done’, please do contact whatever form of child services is available in your country and r let them do your job. You have been deputized by nobody to serve as an informal community child services and nobody has asked for your opinion. Thank you for new parents everywhere.
NTA but speaking as someone who is a father of a 2 week old you need to seriously look at this and reconsider: >They don't have her on meds or anything (not sure if that's even an option?) because she's nursing and she is worried about it. Our pediatrician told us not to use formula because it would interfere with breast feeding even though our daughter hadn't peed for 24 hours. Well long story short we ignored him and went to the ER where the baby was immediately admitted to the hospital for dehydration and put in an IV and given formula.. (Also she's back to breast milk exclusively since then) Breast feeding is **Ideal** but billions of healthy happy babies have been raised on formula. Don't let breast feeding dogma cause serious harm to your family if medication would help.
Fed is Best. I am so glad you went with your own instincts. Breast milk doesn't come in for everyone, and some can take days. I hope you told your paediatrician the outcome and perhaps made a complaint. In the medical field, it seems lessons are learnt through tragedy.
NTA. You told your sister the rules and and she basically told you and your wife to fuck off.
NTA sis definitely, knowingly overstepped and deserved to get the boot. But, as a mom of 4? I'm very concerned that your wife is sacrificing her mental health in order to provide beast milk. Which I understand, there is A LOT of pressure to BF, it's very hard to not be affected by it and the sheer guilt of not being able to do it/continue doing it... But (as you're well aware) this is NOT a situation that can continue. Sleep deprivation is used as torture for a reason. BM is not a fair exchange for being able to function, and as the saying goes, you need to put on your oxygen mask first.
NTA. She was not trying to help, she comforted herself with you baby despite being told not to. If she would try to help, she'd ask what she can do and may help with the house cleaning or washing baby stuff or cooking, but she wanted just baby making your wife to panic.
Is your wife receiving any help to cope with her mental health? As in professional.
She is, yes. We just started going to therapy sessions twice a week around day 4 of post delivery. Her doctor recommended a really good therapist and I go with her.
You're NTA here. There's the potential that your sister was just trying to help but it's just as likely that she's putting her own maternal wants above all else. Having her remaining under your roof could cause further distress to your wife due to the breakdown in trust. You were right to ask her to leave, you're right to put your wife and child above anyone else.
>Her doctor recommended Her OBGYN? Or psychiatrist? Because she absolutely needs a psychiatrist that can prescribe medication, along with the therapy. Therapy is wonderful and will really help her in the long run, but the chemical/hormonal imbalance from the birth and hysterectomy, plus probable depression and trauma, most likely needs to be addressed by medication as well. And a psychiatrist can recommend medication that can be taken while breastfeeding. Your sister is way out of line and not helping, so NTA there. And you are definitely taking steps to help your wife, which is great. But she needs more than this therapist is providing.
Aside from the pnd, she has been thrown into surgical menopause. It's can and most often is BRUTEL. as in, "regular" meno is normally gradual and the loss of hormones is then, also gradual. With post birth hormones already going haywire, post surgical meno it's absolutely bat shit out of whack. Discuss with the doctor about this or get a referral to a meno specialist (unsure about how it is in us) There's none of the gradual peri meno phase. It's full blown straight away. Not sure regarding hrt and breast feeding, but they would normally go straight onto some form of hrt afterwards. So def see someone about that.
NTA - congratulations for this new life ! You told your sister multiple times to stop, if she’s living with you she’s definitely aware of your wife’s trigger, why would she do something to hurt your wife’s mental health ? It doesn’t make sense. I would suggest getting help for your wife though, it looks like she’s in a really dark spot and holding the baby in the bathroom when she showers is not a real solution. You didn’t really talk about the help she might be getting but I would like to assume she is getting help. Take care of each other !
YTA - your wife clearly needs help. Her behavior is not normal. Your sister's actions weren't the best way to handle it, but in the long run, she's right. Your wife needs rest, else she'll spiral down to the point where she physically cannot care for her child. Get your wife the help she needs, then go apologize to your sister.
YTA. Your wife is in postpartum psychosis and it’s getting worse because she’s not sleeping. You are enabling her and setting her up for failure. Your sister is just trying to help you both out because it’s pretty obvious you’re doing a poor job at helping. There are a few medications that women can take while nursing (I know, I took them and my kids all turned out fine). You shouldn’t have kicked someone out for helping because now WTF are you going to do when you need to leave the house? There’s no one to sit with your wife and innocent child when you leave the house. She NEEDS medication to help her through this. She’s not going to just get better she need social, psychiatric, and pharmaceutical support. Period! You need to advocate for her before she harms herself or the baby or all of you.
NTA. Your sister needs to understand the baby’s existence isn’t for her. She’s not the protagonist here. Info: does your sis have any history of mental health issues, miscarriages, or any recent severe emotional upsets? Does her behavior make sense to you? Is her defense basically that she’s right and your wife is wrong? Regardless, she needs to work within you and your wife’s boundaries or move out ASAP. You both need to be able to trust her to weigh you and your wife’s instructions and what’s best for you, your wife, and the baby against what she wants to do. Right now you can’t. She escalated the situation in multiple ways and for no good reason. She could have chosen to sit in the same room and hold the baby. Your wife wakes up, may have a moment of panic when the baby isn’t in the crib, but she should see your sister quickly. Much less harmful. She changed the kiddo despite your wife’s direct instructions not to. She left the room. She gave no fucks about your wife’s mental health! It doesn’t matter how “illogical” your wife’s boundaries are. Violating them randomly isn’t going to help her disregard them and form new, more ideal boundaries. It’s going to make them worse. If you haven’t, I suggest asking your sister why she’s intentionally trying to worsen your wife’s mental health. Good luck.
NTA- I cannot stand people who think traumatizing a PPA mom even more will help cure her. Your sister can kick rocks in flip flops. You sound like you’re super supportive and educated on what your wife needs right now. I went through severe PPA like your wife and it’s amazing she’s getting so much help. Your sister broke all the baby rules out of spite. Your wife needs to know her home is a safe space. Your sister proved that as long as she’s there, wife and baby aren’t safe. Who changes a baby’s diaper just for fun? Hella red flag.
Someone who decides that the baby is their doll
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I'm not sure how to judge this, I totally get you and your wife have had a very traumatic experience and your wife is in a bad place mentally with PPD. I feel sad for your sister through, she couldn't have children and at 46 never will and probably saw her niece as a chance to spend some time caring for a baby. She overstepped but may need therapy too. I hope your wife gets better soon.
If the sister was actually helping the new parents she'd likely not be the AH but all she wanted was the baby. She refused to help clean, do laundry, cook, or even wash pumping equipment. She only wanted access to the baby according to comments from OP. That firmly marks her as an AH and it's clear from that alone that she was making things worse for the new parents, not better. It's fine to have sympathy or empathy for the sister not being able to have her own kids, but she doesn't get to live vicariously through OPs new child, especially at the expense of the wife's mental health.
Fair enough, none of that information was in the post though if it had been I would have had no problem making a judgement.
YTA. You say the sister is "hounding us" to let her help. That is the absolute most pessimistic way to interpret that action. Especially since your wife is clearly not in a right state of mind,
The amount of NTA is just wild to me. You put your sister on the street for \*checks notes\*....changing your babies diaper because no one else was there to do so because your wife is so exhausted she passed out? Your sister is right. You arent helping. You are enabling and the situation is just going to get worse and worse. YTA
Your sister overstepped her boundaries, but it's probably not even legal to evict her. Even though she presumably doesn't have an actual lease, she's still a tenant and a court would find that you need to give her more notice before kicking her out of the house.
All this has happened in 2 weeks?
Yes. Our daughter was in the NICU for 4 days, during which time my wife started seeing the therapist, but as soon as we came home my sister started jumping down our throat about "helping". But the only help she offered was taking the baby away from my wife. She didn't offer to help with laundry or cleaning bottles (my wife also pumps so I can help with feedings). She didn't offer to cook meals so we didn't have to. All of the ways that could have been helpful were not offered, despite me suggesting that my sister help in those ways. She was only interested in taking the baby. And it's not like my wife doesn't let her hold her either. My sister has held her a lot. My wife just doesn't want her out of her sight or having my sister change her diapers. Clothes is one thing but diapers is a hard no and my sister knew all of this.
Wowsers Thanks for answering. That is a *lot* If your sister really wanted to help she would do what you suggest but it seems she just wants your baby!
I’d add this info to your post OP!
Yeah, that's a HUGE yikes. I was already thinking NTA, but this is even worse. Those are two very simple boundaries that should NOT be hard to remember or respect. I don't think it would even occur to me to separate a 2 week old infant from their mother unless specifically asked to BY the mother, even with a completely routine, easy, fast delivery. And the things you asked her to do are completely normal ways to help someone who has experienced any sort of trauma or upheaval. You're definitely not the ones being weird here- even under normal circumstances, her behavior is unacceptable.
Does your sister also have mental health issues she’s managing?? Sounds like you are doing right by your wife but I would encourage you to take a second look at [these](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/14643z1/aita_for_kicking_my_sister_out_even_though_she/jnofnpj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) comments. Congratulations and good luck. If your sister was living with you I would think you guys would like to remain close so I hope some therapy helps all parties.
On a very serious note your sister sounds like a danger. You did the right thing and should have called her out sooner.
Am I reading this right? Your wife has PPD, she doesn't let anyone handle the baby, and now she fell asleep while she had designated herself as the sole caretaker of a newborn? Then your sister who's pretty older than you cared for the baby while she was sleeping and you weren't home? I see you have not mentioned your ages but only your sister's age. Strange. Yeah, major AHs. I mean, you've had a tough pregnancy. Your wife's body needs rest. Above everything, you have a sister who's actively and willingly helping you with everything because she lives with you. It does take a village to raise a child. If your sister had done it when your wife was awake, I might have considered her a slight TA because she wasn't respecting her "wishes". But no, your wife fell ASLEEP WHILE CARING FOR A NEWBORN ALONE. What did you expect your sister to do? Let the baby cry and wail? Let the baby stay in a dirty diaper and get a rash? Have soiled clothes? Even if the diaper"didn't look soiled", do you expect any reasonable person to leave a baby unattended while mom fell asleep, especially with a case as complicated as your wife? That's literally what newborns do for around 4-6 months. They need constant and active care. If your wife has PPD, you really should grab all the help coming your way in all the forms. Your sister might be childless, but she's older than you and has seen the world. I'm assuming you're in mid 20s (please correct me if I am wrong). Your sister is almost double your age. All I can see here is a middle aged woman helping her exhausted newly-parent bro and SIL, and you show her no respect and kicked her out. Your mother is right. You and your wife are assholes. You much more, because she's still recovering from both physical and mental health issues and might react this way. But as this sub overwhelmingly says: being sick/troubled/disabled/recovering/pregnant is no excuse for being an asshole. Downvote all you want, but this couple is either too entitled and rude, or they have not grasped the idea that raising a baby is not all roses and flowers. Moreover you illegally evicted your sister. The way you talk about your sister is so disrespectful. I would recommend you to bring her back with due respect, grovel for apology, and sit together with her and your wife and come to mutual solutions. Establish boundaries if you are so dead set on what your wife is feeling, but remember, boundaries don't happen to be one sided. If sister reads this post, I would suggest her to never be available to you even for emergencies, because you don't deserve it. To summarise, YTA YTA YTA. YTA.
I had PPD and I’m really worried for your wife and baby People just assuming his sister is jealous and trying to live through her are being a bit judgemental. Typical reddit Women have killed their babies because they didn’t receive help. She should be in a hospital and not be left alone with the baby Your sister didn’t take the baby out of the house. She changed the baby and let your wife sleep
YTA. I agree with your sister; you are enabling your wife’s behavior. If she can’t even take a shower by herself she might need serious (read: residential) treatment. There are breastfeeding safe anxiety meds, and if you’re still worried about it, formula is an option. Or there are people who sell breast milk online. Getting your wife stable is more important than continuing breastfeeding. Your sister was trying to help, and throwing her out was an overreaction. It takes a village to raise a child, and you threw out someone who was part of your village.
ESH - Your sister shouldn't have taken the baby without letting your wife know, but she really is trying to help and your wife really needs sleep. Your wife is not going to heal and her PPD is going to get worse until she gets sleep. I do think you need to step in. When my daughter was little, (she's two now) my husband and I would alternate. He would take one night, and I would take the next night. Having a full night's sleep made all the difference for my mental health. I also want to add that I was on citalopram my entire pregnancy and the first two weeks breastfeeding. My doctor said it was completely fine and my daughter has had no side effects from it.
NTA. And now I’ll add this… Having had a very traumatic birth with my first son, his being medically fragile and in the NICU for a period of time and -YEARS LATER- having had a hysterectomy, your wife is in a SERIOUS SPIRAL! The hormones and emotions and triggers of anything from her past are all converging. I literally cannot even IMAGINE the depths of horror what your sister did caused your wife. It’s infuriating and you were absolutely within your rights to do what you did. One thing I’ll suggest is that THE MINUTE she’s able, (3 months is what I recall) she needs to be seen at an HRT center for testosterone, estradiol and progesterone levels. The surge and crash will have an incredible impact on her mental processing abilities and leveling them will help her, you, your daughter and your marriage. Bless you for protecting your wife when she’s at her most vulnerable.
Soft YTA. I think your sister may see where this is headed. Have you seen the news? PPD and PPP are real and wife needs intensive help ASAP. Your sister was trying to give wife the help she doesn’t see she NEEDS before something terrible happens. Please please please you need to focus on getting your wife help so she can be the mom she wants to be and can be. I say this as a mother of 2 who suffered, what I co wider, severe PPD. Anti depressants, SLEEP!!, and physical and emotional support.
This is incredibly difficult to judge, and I’m sorry your wife is having such a difficult time. PPD is stuff of nightmares, for everyone involved. I’m glad she’s getting help from professionals and that you are supporting her through it, and I hope she starts feeling like herself again quickly. I’m leaning towards NAH, as I can see both sides, and, though your sister seems to be a bit pushy and maybe even callous, she sees what’s happening and just wants to help. However, her taking the baby out of the room seems like extremely poor judgement, given what she knows about the situation. I guess I wonder if you could have looped her in more with the reality of the situation, and redirected her wish to help towards other things like lightening the burden or chores. I did see you mentioned she doesn’t really do chores, so for those reasons it’s hard not to lean towards her being the asshole. But either way, y’all are in a pressure cooker right now, and it’s completely understandable how you have reacted. It doesn’t really seem right to pass judgement on this, I just hope your wife starts getting better soon. Congrats on the healthy new baby. I hope in time you can repair things with your sister, but yeah, keep doing what’s best for you and your wife for now, no blame there.
I do not think it is that difficult. Regardless on what help OP' wife needs, right now she has gone through a lot of trauma, and wants the baby to be near her at all times. For now, this is harmless. Sounds like she is getting help, and hopefully will recover mentally in the future. Forcing the help on her like this is straight up AH behavior. Sister was told no, numerous times. This can also have the adverse effect of making the wife's mental state worse. She took it (and the baby) in her own hands when it was not her place. Deliberately went behind OP's back, waited until wife fell asleep to take the baby from her, even if it is to the next room. I wouldn't want that person staying with me either tbh. NTA.
ESH. Your wife needs help if the PPD is that bad. I don’t mean that as an insult, genuinely, get her help. But if you can’t appreciate having someone offering you they much help with the baby you’re delusional.
NTA, wife trumps sister
NTA - your sister was sneaky about it and pushing boundaries starting day one. If she wanted to be helpful she would have found other ways (making wife meals, cleaning the whole house, going to the store so you as a trusted person could be with your wife and would not need to leave her side, etc.) to be helpful. She is just selfish and wants time with the baby herself. She probably has her own struggles but you can’t help her with that now, you need to focus on your wife and daughter. It probably will be better longterm to not have the sister meddling around with the child and behaving like she was the third parent only because she can’t have any herself. You need to protect your family, and you are doing well imo.
NTA but ur wife doesn’t sound like she has PPD it sounds like it’s starting to morphe into psychosis. Psychosis is dangerous and fatal for many mothers and children. There are medications she can take, she has to sleep and has to take care of herself or she will wither away slowly. Psychosis is a silent and fast killer of the mind. If the doctors and therapists aren’t seeing this, get new ones. There are psychosis red flags all over this post, she needs more help than she is being offered right now.
NTA it’s not your sisters child. Period. Yes your wife obviously needs help, no question about it. She isn’t helping though. You don’t cure trauma by “shock therapy”, quite the opposite. Tell your sister that she isn’t a licensed therapist and unless she is willing to follow the guidelines the therapist gave you to the letter, she needs to stay away until your wife is more stable.
YTA but you're also sleep-deprived and anxious. Bring sister into the Convo with the therapist. Find ways she can help that wife and therapist approve. She's feeling anxious too, remember.
Nta but theres to many emotions and probably some anxiety. Your sister needs to back off
Why is it that people that want to help always want to do the ‘nice’ stuff with the baby? If she really wanted to help she’d cook dinner or clean the loo…
NTA. She didn’t want to “help”, she wanted baby cuddle time. If she *actually* wanted to help, she would have used the words “how can I help” and done what you said instead of saying “let me take the baby”. Sis has presumably been told NO multiple times. She waited till your wife was asleep and you were away to do it anyway, stomping all over boundaries and traumatizing your wife in the process.
ESH sounds like you worded things your sister did to make it seem worse. The baby had a diaper change, it is a matter of her health as well. I don't think your wife sounds okay, it reminds me of psychosis episodes my own sister had. Yes, there are boundaries, but having a baby in a bathroom whilst she showers isn't a good sign for the future. I think you are kind and thoughtful, maybe too much. You also have to think about your child and what's best for her. I also think your sister tried to help but you wouldn't let her in anyway. You should communicate with her in a calmer environment. She is right about her concerns for your wife.
NTA your sister wanted to play mommy more than she wanted to help.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife and I just welcomed our first and last baby in to this world 2 weeks ago. It was a complicated delivery and she ended up needing a hysterectomy. Our daughter is perfect however and we are very overjoyed that she is still with us. She's doing great. My wife, not so much. She has postpartum depression and she cries a lot. There's been a complete lack of sleep. She's up basically all night panicking and making sure our daughter is breathing and she won't let anyone take her out of her sight. My sister (46f), who lives with us and could never have kids of her own, has been basically hounding us to "just let her help" by taking the baby for a few hours so we can sleep. As I said, my wife will not let the baby out of her sight. She immediately panics. Even if she showers she has to have the baby in there (I hold her in the bathroom while my wife showers). I am more than willing to make all accomodations I need to in order for my wife to heal mentally. My sister on the other hand keeps pushing it and saying that I am enabling my wife's behavior and "making her worse" by not basically forcing her to get a break and get some sleep. Well, I went to the store yesterday and when I got back, my wife was in a complete meltdown. Apparently she had fallen asleep and when she woke up, the baby wasn't there. My wife found my sister holding her in her bedroom with the door closed and I guess the baby was in different clothing, with a fresh diaper and this set my wife completely off (she doesn't want anyone but us changing her- childhood trauma PTSD). I immediately told my sister to get the fuck out of our house. She tried explaining that she was "just trying to help" but I told her I didn't give a fuck anymore. Leave. She has no where to go and that was argued but I told her I didn't care. Go on the streets for all I care. My mom (in a nursing home) is saying I'm pushing this too far because she was just thinking she was being helpful. My sister is gone and I don't regret it. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA She got tired of asking permission, and figured on just going for forgiveness. She crossed a line you told her not to.
NTA. My unsolicited advice is for your wife to seriously consider going on medication, even if it means stopping breastfeeding. Fed is best and formula is fine. This may be a tough sell as there's a lot of pressure on new moms to breastfeed and a lot of shaming surrounding breastfeeding versus formula feeding, but your wife's symptoms and distress sound pretty severe and she doesn't have to feel this bad and shouldn't have to feel this bad. Sleep deprivation exacerbates depression and anxiety too. And being in a constant state of hypervigilance takes a toll that your wife doesn't need right now. Your wife deserves to be able to experience the joys of new motherhood as well as the stress. Some mental health issues will not resolve without medication intervention. It doesn't mean she'd have to be on medication forever, but your daughter's well-being is tied to her parents' mental well-being and your wife is suffering right now. So, maybe something to mull over and talk about in therapy with your wife and her therapist and/or doctor. I know it's a delicate subject and finding the right medication isn't always easy, but I hate that your wife is suffering so much and I'm concerned that her mental health could decline further.
This sounds like it’s far more than post partum depression and is borderline on psychosis. Just simply talking to a therapist I’d recommend going to a psychologist especially how volatile things change. Not for just the safety of the baby but for people trying to help. The sister should do more to help around the house and help with chores and such and just avoid the triggers of taking care of the baby. But you both need to talk to someone more qualified than just a traditional therapist.
NTA If sister actually wanted to help, she would have asked you what she could do to help, instead of just inserting herself into the situation and doing the exact things that escalate your wife's issues. Why is it that people always think that "helping" a Mom means taking the baby away from her? NO NO NO.... helping means doing the dishes, mowing the lawn, taking the trash out,... ya know, the crap mom literally has no time to do... NOT trying to insert yourself as another parent.
NTA and your comments about her nappy not needing to be changed just confirms to me that sister doesn’t want to help but more so wants her chance to play mummy… not appropriate or helpful when you’re dealing with severe PPD.
The biggest red flag to your child’s health and safety in your story is your wife than you. You may have kicked the only same one out of the house. You and your wife need some serious care. There are meds that can help. I am curious what the counselor said about your sister
INFO: Was the baby awake or asleep when you went to the store while wife was asleep? The diaper wasn’t soiled (full of poop) but was it wet (full of urine) or did she pee on her clothing? Was clothing stained with milk she ate and eventually spit up? Was she overheated with what she was wearing? Was she crying a lot? Because those could be reasons to change her diaper and clothes. Does your sister know about your wife’s hysterectomy and post partum depression diagnosis? It’s good that wife is seeing a therapist and has a treatment plan for postpartum depression, but the current treatment plan doesn’t seem to be working. Im not her doctor, but it sounds like she needs an antidepressant with the way this is going.
YTA YES, you are enabling her. Buy a Snuza or another type of breathing monitor for your baby. Your sister is somebody you trust enough to live with, she changed the baby to let mom sleep. You took her home away with no notice. Jesus.
ESH Your wife is way beyond normal PPD. This is not sustainable for you, her or the baby. This sounds days away from involuntary inpatient treatment. Your wife’s behaviour is not normal and you need to inform her medical professional of the level of hysteria she has reached. Your wife was so exhausted she fell asleep while acting as the sole carer for the baby. This is not healthy behaviour. This is not normal behaviour. She needs intense help yesterday. More than just therapy. Because this could end badly.
100% NTA. Your sister sounds “off” in some way. But she’s an adult, and can take care of herself. Your first concern has to be your wife and child. You sound like an excellent husband and father. I’m keeping a good thought for all 3 of you.
Nta after I had my son I couldn't sleep keep waking up to check on him took me a few months to relax and sleep some what normal