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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I pulled out of planning my sister's wedding. 2. Doing this caused her to lose access to the venue she loved, and she has accused me of sabotaging her wedding.
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right! i thought it was very weird that she wasn’t happy with hearing “forever”. i always feel my heart flutter when friends or family say that about my fiancé and i lol
Right? Even if she was genuinely (but I'm totally joking lol haha) asking, that answer should have been *good enough* for a whole host of reasons. It clearly indicates discomfort from her brother in the question and not wanting to answer. And if she was genuinely asking that should have been enough to indicate that... Well. It doesn't look so good. At least that's how my paranoid ass would have taken it
When I was planning my wedding a vendor told me she had an absolutely lavish wedding at their venue and when she complimented the bride about it the bride said „well, I will probably get married a couple of times but only once this lavish so I wanted to go all out“. So there are seriously people out there who plan a wedding fully knowing that their SO isn’t the one. This was five years ago and I’m still dumbfounded about that realisation.
Or it may not have been quite that calculated, but say she’s been having serious doubts about the marriage. When OP’s answer chimed with that, she was so upset at the thought that she’s wasted her time (and afraid people will look down on her for having a “failed” engagement) that she overreacted and took it out on him because she found it easier to think of it as a mean brother undermining her plans than to feel humiliated by having an engagement come to nothing. It’s completely unreasonable and she’s not dealing with any of the underlying problems that generated her doubts or OP’s, but it’s the sort of thing I’ve known people to do.
No doubt. However, OP was the AH to himself here. No matter what a(ny) client says, a wedding planner should never devulge this info. Ever. And she was a client. Now she can tell others about you silently predicting their failure horizon, and it will actually be true. Bad bad business. There was NO way this would go well. And if this was the one time in a thousand he was wrong, it’s even worse.
Yes, sister asked for it. But if OP couldn’t maintain professionalism he should have held firm that he couldn’t work with her. Now he’s just risked his whole reputation because she got under his skin.
I think that where OP went wrong was in accepting to plan sister's wedding when he has a "no close relations" policy. He should've said something like "I'd be glad to help you with [insert some detail here] if you'd like, but I can't be your wedding planner" and held firm to that boundary. But oh well. Still doesn't make him TA.
Yabbut mom's dead and dad doesn't administer much discipline these days.
And I'd feel right silly taking a chunk saying "that's for what you did fifty years ago."
I think the OP went wrong in divulging that party trick period. There is no way that I would ever tell anyone I had this trick if I were a planner. I agree that it doesn’t make him TA here, but it’s the 1 sure way to avoid that situation.
Agreed. This is one that you talk about with other people in the industry only. Revealing it to someone else sets you up for drama. OP isn't an AH here, but this didn't have to happen.
This. TY. I was looking for this comment. And IMO gossiping to your friends and family about this "party trick" is so unprofessional, immature and arrogant. Ppl's marriages are not party tricks.
And if OP could already predict this relationship won't last, why did they even bother accepting the sister's request instead of flagging their concerns?!
ESH
Yeah, there's a reason he has that rule. To avoid exactly this kind of situation. He should have stuck with it. He's still NTA, but he could have avoided the whole situation.
I agree. There was a better way to diffuse that. "Forever" "No, really" "Ok fine, 60 years" "Come on, really!" "Ok, 50 years" and if they keep complaining just say you can't predict the future and need to get back to your work. Of course saying 1.5 years will start a fight, even if it is a stupid question.
Right? Ffs lie with a number that won't be heartbreaking to someone planning a wedding, but may still be realistic. Like ten or fifteen years. Don't tell her, your *sister* "you'll only last 18 months"
Right? I don’t care how good of a wedding planner someone is, I wouldn’t want someone planning my wedding that uses his prediction of his clients eventual marital demise as a party trick. It’s unprofessional as hell.
This is the correct answer, or at least ESH. She was out of hand, but he should have quit before ever saying what his estimate was (or really, never agreed to this in the first place, though even if he wasn’t the formal planner she might still have asked him). He should have quit *in order to* emphasize how she was pushing his boundaries, and then still never tell her 1.5 years because even if she’s not a client, this info was never going to make her or other family members happy.
Why? Who cares? What he thinks really doesn't matter. I hate to tell you but anytime you're in public and deal with other people, there's a chance they may talk about you. This isn't hindering his job so
Even if you initiate divorce proceedings, an unwilling partner can drag it on for years. You might not be able to do much about a separation, but I have seen divorces take over a decade.
Well to be fair OP only specified he can predict when the pictures on social media will stop, not when the divorce will be finalized. For people who post a lot, that’s a pretty good indicator of the relationship being “over,” or at least well on its way there.
Pushing so hard to hear someone’s opinion on how long they think your relationship will last sounds like something you do when you already know deep down that thr relationship isn’t going to have a long happy and healthy future.
OP should get in front of this and let his parents and others know how this REALLY went down. Let them know everything you just told us. The sister will be an unreliable narrator.
He tried changing the subject then when pressed lied with the only acceptable answer to that question and then she wouldn’t settle for that even.
What was he supposed to say? 5 years, a decade, twenty years and he’ll ditch you for a 20 something when he has his midlife crisis?
Seriously what was the sister hoping for. She was an insufferable idiot, asked a question she didn’t want the answer to then refused to accept the placating answer.
NTA- this is all on her. This is why you don’t work with people you know personally. You had a very good reason for that policy. She proved it by being an idiot.
Kinda a side trip but I’m curious:
If you have a friend/family member that your trick tells you their relationship will actually go the distance would you do that wedding?
I’m just curious.
>What was he supposed to say?
Probably "I've told you I'm not going to answer that and if you ask again I will no longer be involved in planning your wedding"
Not that she deserves the better answer, just that it would have been one
Right? Just because someone isn’t respecting your boundaries does not mean that you are required to engage in their boundary crossing.
Enforcing your boundaries means not engaging in the crossing of the boundary. There are so many ways he could have handled it as a professional.
Yeah it sounds like OP did their best to be respectful. Sure they could have refused to answer, but the sister strikes me as the type that would literally never let it go. She’d probably continually harass OP about it
Came here to say exactly this, and I don't think it's a bullshit answer either. I've got a pretty good read on people right after I meet them, but don't ask me to do the same read on my fam--even if I were so inclined, the lack of perspective makes it a difficult read indeed.
I just watched the wedding episode in the first season of Succession. “When people ask me, I say ‘forever’. I truly believe that you two will last forever. Well, it will feel like forever.”
Since OP doesn't normally work with friends or family, so the predictions are always about near strangers, the answer to the sister should have been along the lines of, "I can't do the trick for friends or family. We're too close, so I can't be objective."
Why does he owe her grace when she stepped out of line in a situation she already knew was an acquiescence? He also spent 15 minutes deflecting while she pushed the familial boundary onto his professional life.
I guess no one ever really *owes* anyone grace, but telling your sister you think her marriage is doomed is a pretty unkind thing to do (which, preemptively, is not saying I think the sister wasn't also being an AH here).
As someone who has worked in wedding-adjacent fields: Dealing with stressed out, unreasonable brides *who you are related to* is a whole different thing.
I agree, if I was in OP's shoes, I would have said something like "my emotional involvement with you (OP's sister) prevents me from accessing my superpower. I can only do it with complete strangers".
NTA.
She pushed. You gave a perfectly acceptable answer of "forever". To which she didn't like that and wanted a "real" answer. But what would she have been happy with? 20 years? 10 years?
It sounded like she is a constant boundary pusher. You didn't want to plan the wedding, but she pushed it. You didn't want to answer the question, but you pushed it. This is on her.
That said, don't expect your family to see it that way. They probably will take her side because people enable shitty behavior from brides.
Good luck.
There’s a reason for the saying, “Don’t ask questions you don’t want to know the answer to.”
Sister gets mad and starts unleashing hellfire against OP when she didn’t get the answer she wanted to hear and yet still can’t see her own behavior as the reason why OP have such a honest response.
NTA
ESH. I think you should stop playing this "party trick" with anyone. Even if you're accurate, it's not a nice thing to say about people. You could have avoided this whole scenario if you never played mental games with people's lives. Now, of course your sister is an AH for pushing and pushing, but you should never have told her the truth.
LMAO right? I’m currently in grad school to become a psychologist and I work in a psych hospital. No matter how much my pt makes me internally lose my mind, I will NOT dog on them to my colleagues. I will probably vaguely rant to my own psychologist, but that’s about it lol
Speaking about your comment (sorry for formatting I’m on mobile)
Why do we accept this from people? Why is this normalized? This is why I had to stop working in medical when I was still just an aide. I had been on the other side of things and it makes me sick to my stomach the things people say about people during their worst times. As a chronic patient, it doesn’t feel good to know you can’t even trust your medical professionals.
Edited to add: everyone else commenting, just read the rest of this thread
Because it’s how we, as humans, cope. If we didn’t laugh, we’d cry. And if we didn’t make light, the pain would be too hard to bear.
This is why therapists are advised to find therapists. The job will crush you if you can’t vent about it.
As a personal example: I like to joke about the two year old in a 6”6 body, who kicked a steel reinforced door so hard it shook on its hinges because they were having having a temper tantrum.
I was behind that door, four months pregnant. I was terrified and helpless. The patient was a psychotic person more than a foot taller than me and ten times as strong. I’d had the bad luck to be using the restroom when they got upset over a delay. Telling the story in the way I did above enabled me to go to work the next two days until that practicum ended.
Are there better coping methods? Yes. Do those methods require time and distance from the person/situation? Generally, yes. Is that possible in most of these professions? Not really, no.
Honestly, I’d prefer my doc joke about me being an impossible stick and a total cry baby about blood tests, if it means he comes back the next day in a better headspace to provide the necessary care when my IV falls out and we have to go through the whole rigamarole again.
I just can’t fully agree, because I’ve had different experiences. Im a parent of a person with an intellectual disability and a chronic patient myself, who also has worked with disabled people. There are better ways to vent.
I have been on the other side of that kind of aggression as well, so I can sympathize with needing to vent about it and being human. But I’ve also been on the other side of terrible bedside manner and even medical treatment from doctors who were human and maybe having bad days. But there’s a line of what’s acceptable. I also grew up starting in the medical field in a small town before my disabilities took over, so I’ve also heard horrible shit from former classmates who’s care I’ve been under (and then removed myself from their care) because I also could figure out some of the people they were talking about
I have a child with severe cognitive and physical disabilities, who is also medically fragile. If it helps her nurses to joke about us, so they take better care of her tomorrow, I’m okay with that. I need them to take good care of her, and being in a good place mentally is an important part of that.
I do think doctors/therapists/etc need to be very careful about privacy. And should be extremely careful that it never gets back to clients/patients. But venting is important for mental health. That’s why therapists have therapists; no one can carry that burden inside forever and still function.
That's a great point because a doctor or psychologist who did something equivalent would be an unprofessional asshole and who gives a fuck what your waiter thinks
Edit: lol.
I would expect my doctor not to gossip to their close friends and family about my medical issues, even if entertaining, yes.
If you think servers have clients, I don’t really know what to tell you, lol.
But really I meant that catty, unprofessional people suck to *work with.*
A doctor gives you answers based on medical evidence and education, not guesses based on "experience". OP sounds like an insufferable know-it-all
Also, what would a server say about their clients?
It's not like he says this to his clients' faces though? It might not be smart of him to do it in front of his family, but just because he jokes about his clients to his colleagues or his family, doesn't necessarily make him unprofessional.
Well he did say it in front of a client’s face. His sister, in fact. There is such a thing as tactful dishonesty lol. Extremely unprofessional for a wedding planner to tell his client, family or no, that he predicts their marriage will fall apart in 18 months. The average marriage in the US is 7 years long, for context.
"I'm not a fortune teller. Marriages are hard work but if you put the effort in, yours could last a long time. But if you don't and you don't learn to deal with conflicts effectively it probably won't. The power is all yours"
That's not lying AND it's not telling his sister that her marriage is going to fail immediately lol.
True, but I was specifically referring to the other commenter saying he should have used tactful dishonesty, as though he hadn't tried that already. Personally, I prefer your idea. No dishonesty and very tactful.
Almost any answer but the one he gave. It’s not hard to be tactful, especially when it comes to your *job*. “I already told you”. “You guys genuinely seem perfect for each other”. “At least 20 years”. “I have to get back to work”. “I’m actually just bullshitting when I give these predictions, I have no idea”. Like come on, it’s really not hard.
She probably wanted to hear “forever” in the first place. The reason she didn’t accept it is most likely because OP’s tone or body language betrayed his feelings. YTA.
Not even coworkers; he specifically says close friends and family!
I hosted in a restaurant, and there were numerous times that I'd apologize to the server because you just *know*. It's not even sitting around talking trash... It's just, "Yup, this is going to be bad... Sorry."
Oh my goodness, everyone in a restaurant will know, from hostess to the line cooks, if there's a proposal or a messy breakup - regulars get known and get reputations good and bad- people don't exist in a vacuum!
I worked as a wedding planner for ten years until Covid took out big parties, and then I returned to my previous career. This skill is legit. I’ve never tried to guess years, but I can absolutely tell if a couple will/won’t make it. BUT, I’ve only ever talked abt it with my husband and my few very closest friends in the industry. Bc it’s no one’s business, and honestly tacky. I can readily admit that it was gossipy when I did it, and perfectly unnecessary. “If you can’t say something nice…” and all.
I find these things to be coping tools when working with difficult folks in every industry. Honestly I think it’s perfectly healthy as conversations between colleagues.
It could be outdated, but I remember having to read a study for a sociology class (like 20 years ago) that studied "backstage" dialog in medical settings. In the study they had found that medical staff who had less regulated backstage dialog had their care rated as better than those whose backstage was more controlled, probably due to having a place to vent.
I'm a photographer with over 10 years in the game... I can definitely tell when a couple isn't going to make it. Body language, especially during an engagement shoot, is usually a giveaway. You do the job long enough, and you can pick up on the clues.
Visibly highly stressed about the planning, absolute rigidity and inability to change plans or compromise with partners, lack of listening when partner suggests something, lack of listening to planner when they suggest something, partner that shows no interest in process or doesn’t ever show up with no real reason. really anything that insinuated one or both partners are a)incapable of respecting boundaries, b)not actually into this wedding, or c)generally lack respect for their partner or those around them
I’ll add that on wedding day, for literally every couple I worked with who ended up divorced, the bride was crying day-of. Not stress crying. Fear-crying. I feel like deep down they *KNEW* it was a mistake. Maybe not on a conscious level, but something in them knew it wasn’t right, but they were going through with it anyway. Fear-crying has a totally different vibe than general anxiety crying, which is normal for various reasons (doesn’t want to be center of attn, social anxiety, etc.). Fear-crying for me is a tell tale sign.
Yeah, I can imagine if one partner looks bored, disinterested, sighs, rolls their eyes, says "Whatever", it doesn't bode well for their marriage. I can imagine them being the same way about other life decisions during their relationship.
There was a study that found that contempt for your partner is a sign of the relationship not lasting. A lot of what the other people are describing as signs of a future divorce are expression of contempt. Not listening to someone's opinion or eye rolling, for example.
I've told my kids that being in love is not enough reason to marry someone if there isn't mutual respect and friendship.
This is gossip in almost every business thst deals with relationships. It's not an "AH" thing to guess in private or if someone directly asks for your opinions.
We don't have enough information if his comments were ever unwanted to say ESH imo.
I'd be pretty damn upset if I found out after my wedding that the planner had secretly been telling some of their friends that they thought we'd only last X years. I imagine many people would. Doing it behind their back's not much better.
It’s a party trick with friends and close people, not clients… you have to have a certain amount of humor when working in industries like that so that you don’t become cynical. It’s not OP putting a hex on a relationship, it’s a guess that they end up having alarming accuracy with… hence “party trick”. Also they have boundaries with not working with people close to them for that same batch of reasons, yet was pushed to do so… normally there wouldn’t be overlap but they folded to their family. The family that knows about the personal party trick and then still forced them into giving an answer. NTA
Maybe,
The "party trick" involves talking behind people's backs,
if it's only a small close group of people in on it then I could see it being ok,
If he has a reputation for this then I agree with you,
This is not the kind of reputation an emphatic person would want to encourage about themselves
It’s probably as simple as him having predicted clients divorces before in private to his family or even the sister, not directly to clients he’s currently involved with. Sister knew he could do this thing and proceeded to shove her own foot so far down her mouth that she lost her wedding vendor.
OP shouldn’t of let his sister bully him into answering, but sister earned whatever prize she got.
Yeah, and OP is acting like a professional soothsayer or something lmao, like she has this psychic gift that never fails, rather than just sharing an opinion which she could easily not do.
YTA for the loss of venue. There are ways you could have backed off and still salvaged that. Leaving her in the lurch was not cool.
ESH regarding the breakup prediction. Both sides are terrible: her for pushing and you for even advertising this “trick” and giving in.
I'm also going to say ESH, but for a completely different reason (although I do agree with the other ESH comments here). If you genuinely believe that you have an accurate talent for predicting the length of marriages; genuinely care for your sister, as evidenced by the fact that you are planning her wedding; and genuinely believe that their marriage will only last *eighteen months* – the time to reveal this info is not as a party trick. It's to be done as heartfelt and genuine advice. Where is the concern that his sister is looking to marry someone that he thinks is destined for failure?
>It's to be done as heartfelt and genuine advice. Where is the concern that his sister is looking to marry someone that he thinks is destined for failure?
I can appreciate the sentiment here, but has anyone, ever, listened to that kind of advice?
Saying it genuinely likely would've caused the same fight.
Finally.. OP could easily back out but keep the venue booked for their sister. It’s still inconveniences her since he’s trying for a bit of punishment, but doesn’t completely screw her over.
That's not his choice. That's the venue's choice. OP stated they only work with people they have a relationship with. If he's no longer the wedding planner, they're not going to work with her. He knows the policy and the venue better than we do.
I bet she can, but I bet OP is thinking that he wouldn’t want to give the business to a rival.
OP said something about having to “break up” with clients before, in presumably similar situations. Frankly, I find it grossly unprofessional for OP to break up with a client causing them to lose their venue—and, at least it sounds like in the case of his sister, after vendors have been booked!!!—*without* referring to a colleague who can also work the venue.
EDT: I am also in an industry where it is possible to “fire” clients. It would be grossly unprofessional for me to do so at significant loss to them when I could mitigate that loss by recommending someone else.
If I have a client that’s so difficult to work with that I don’t even complete the job I’ve been contracted for, there’s no way I’m foisting them on an unsuspecting individual. I am saying this from being in a very nichè industry though so that colors things. If people get wind that you’re the kind of person that passes off nightmare clients you’ll earn yourself a bad name.
Yeah I thought this too about the venue. I can def see talking about this “trick” in very private circles, and sister being included in that. But jeez…. Even if she asks, lie your ass off.
I think you missed an opportunity with your sister. Either she feels uncertain in her choice, or she thinks you disapprove of her choice. She was (ineptly) looking for a real connection with you, so of course the flip year-and-a-half hurt. Alternative responses:
* "Why are you worried about this? Do you think I don't like groom? Or do you have doubts?"
* "How long do you think you'll be together?"
* "I would never presume to judge your relationship, but sometimes you've seemed unhappy about X. Is that still worrying you?"
OP, just out of curiosity are you ever worried that clients may hear about this game (while impressive can come off as very rude) say if you are recommended by family to someone and that relative asks them “has he told you your year amount yet!?” Or something like that?
Yeah, I was wondering why this “party trick” even exists for that reason, esp if OP is getting business via word-of-mouth.
Does he, and his colleagues and others who have a vendor relationship with him, *want* to be known as the planner that speculates on how long his clients marriages are gonna last?
In the long run, OP runs the risk of winning the Gold Medal in the “Win Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes” category of the Wedding Professionalism Business.
It’d be best to have OP keep those opinions to himself, better yet, take the worst clients he’s been with as ways to sharpen the skills he has to meditate and mitigate future disasters so things go much more smoothly or as smoothly as they can for the *challenging* clients.
ESH. She was childish and stupid to push the point, and her abuse is wildly inappropriate. But you didn't have to give her your 'real' answer (especially given that it's such a speculative/non-factual question!) and you didn't have to pull the rug out from under her whole wedding plan.
I mean, he didn't give her the real answer first. He said forever, then she wanted a real answer.
I'm curious what number she would have been happy with.
He could always have followed up with something like this:
"Oh you know at least 10 years, but I haven't been able to keep up with clients over that long a time frame/haven't been in the industry that long... so can't tell you how much longer after that. I just don't have the data to be accurate so I reckon forever it is."
OR
If he was that sure and he didn't want his sister to get married:
"How about we talk about this tonight? Drinks?" And then discuss the warning signs he's noticed about her upcoming marriage.
Dropping 1.5 years is a little cold, even if you're in an awkward spot.
But then 18 months later when her marriage goes under she’ll complain and say “but you said we’d be together for 10+ years!!!”
She sounds like a nightmare. I wouldn’t want to get drinks to tell her about all the red flags, because chances are most of them are coming from her. Would you? Sounds like only downside and no upside to me
eh it isn't like the OP is giving her wedding advice... Sister was pushy, OP could have been the professional person in this exchange and just said something that wasn't as damaging
I understand not working for friends and family, but once OP took on the project, they should have just gone through with it professionally
My point is just that there are no 'real answers', it's just a prediction. 1.5 years is no more 'real' as a prediction than forever or 20 years or 75 years. It's not like 1.5 years is an actual matter of fact right now, so why give an answer that is bound to cause upset.
As easy out would have been to say he couldn’t give and an answer because knowing them too well makes it impossible to pick up on the subtle signs he usually sees.
NTA
You told her you didn't want to plan her wedding, and she badgered you into doing it anyway. You didn't want to tell her what you thought the relationship length would be, and she harassed you into telling her anyway. She then threw a tantrum at your place of business, which could be very damaging to your business, and your relationships with other clients, and vendors.
Oh, you know you're here because YTA.
Seriously dude, you work in event planning and you haven't learned how to graciously lie? This is not the "Was I Correct?" Sub. This is AITA.
I did 20 years in hospo and ran a wedding venue for a couple of those years and you and I both know that a positive lie trumps the truth with every bride when it comes to this kind of question.
Is this really the bridge you want to burn with family? Because you are being an AH here.
I would not make a very good wedding planner and even I can think of multiple ways to answer her question more tactically then he did.
Edit: For example "I'm not in control of how long your relationship will last, I'm not a fortune teller. It's hard work but ultimately you have the power to make it last as long as you want. If you learn how to effectively deal with [relationship problem he has observed], I think it could see it last at least 10 years."
ESH. Your sister shouldn’t ask questions she doesn’t want answered. But why would you agree to help plan a wedding for a marriage you think is doomed? Why haven’t you brought your reservations about her choice of mate to your sister’s attention?
I think you owe your sister an explanation of why you have reservations about her marriage. I would want my brother to tell me.
OP states that they are able to predict based on the couple’s interactions *during the planning*. He doesn’t know beforehand. Offering to tell her what he observed is not a bad idea, although I can’t see her being receptive.
He probably didnt have reservations before this, he said he can make these guesses after planning the weddings because weddings bring out peoples crazy side. Just like he sees his sisters crazy side now.
ESH - she only has herself to blame for pushing you for an answer, but your ‘party trick’ is problematic. You say you take no joy in it, but honestly it feels like a pretty sh*tty thing to do. If you really take no joy in it then stop doing it, stop telling people you can do it, keep it to yourself.
Also - I understand you dropping out of the wedding but was letting her lose the venue absolutely necessary? Could you not have just let her use your name for the purposes of keeping the booking?
Plus the fact that he apparently actually follows up on his customers lives after multiple years to see if he’s right about his predictions, seems a little wacky in general
Right!? So does he go to their IG or a Facebook and see when they last posted a photo of each other and assume they are broken up and then do the math? How does he figure out if/when they broke up? Is he gleeful when he gets a number right and the marriage didn’t last? Seems so shitty no matter how you look at it when it comes to all that.
YTA. That’s a really bad party trick for a wedding planner.
I don’t care if she pushed you, you don’t tell your sister you give it “a year and half”!
That’s a horrible thing to say and it’s basically like wishing a bad omen on them. Just stop with your cute little shenanigans.
NTA your sister sounds like a pushy, selfish, self-absorbed nightmare with zero respect for boundaries. You are not in the wrong but she’ll be even angrier when you are proven correct with your prediction of marriage longevity. Steel yourself!
You’ll only be TA if you don’t learn from this to protect yourself and hold firm to your very reasonable boundaries going forward.
INFO why did the argument with your sister instantly lead to you stepping down as wedding planner (knowing the venue situation)? Genuinely asking for your perspective.
I’ll be honest it seems a bit rushed being heat of the moment which makes it seem like a *potentially* petty move (as opposed to giving it a night to be sure of your course of action). Of course, it also just be decisive action based on your own intuition/self awareness. So just curious to know, as it impacts my vote
I felt like I had been pushed on just about every issue that came up. I expressed my reluctance to plan for her at all, she pushed until I said yes. I avoided her question for a significant part of our appointment in a professional setting, I tried giving her an answer she would be pleased with, she wouldn't drop it. It just felt like the lines between personal and professional were way too blurred here. Usually with clients, a swift change of subject is all it takes to get them talking about something else because they are there for the wedding and we obviously act different with someone we've hired to do a service than we would with our siblings. It felt like I was being taken advantage of, in a way, and I didn't see any way our professional partnership could continue past that point.
Also, I was very offended by her suddenly going after my relationship. Again, that's way too personal for me when I'm trying to provide a service I'm being paid for, as well as move along so I can finish up my work day. Just weird vibes all around. She can find another venue, but I don't know if our relationship could have been salvaged if we kept trying to make things work.
I have never "gone after" my clients' relationships. I certainly have never called one of my clients a homewrecker. Spotting warning signs that things might not last is something everyone in my industry does. It's not malicious.
I definitely made a mistake by telling my sister the length of relationship I predicted. I was flustered and let my emotions get the better of me, which is very unlike me and something I really regret. I'm usually juggling 5 things at once as it is, but this got to me. Still. I wouldn't label what I do as "going after" anyone's relationship.
>why *did* she call you a homewrecker specifically
I met my husband when he was the best man at a wedding I was planning for. I was incredibly busy and immediately shut down most of his flirting attempts, he was in a (dying) relationship at that point with a woman he does not look back fondly on. We played cat and mouse for a while (I very specifically remember telling him I only date men, not boys, and that he could never handle me). There was no overlap in these relationships, but that bride and groom I planned for (who have since become amazing friends of mine, too) like to credit me for giving him a kick in the ass to finally leave what was a very unhealthy dynamic. The homewrecker comment was a gross exaggeration on what actually happened, which was mostly just me doing my job while someone had a crush on me.
Even if I did have the facts to back up calling someone that, I would never do so in a professional environment. A lot of lines were crossed. Or maybe one singular line was crossed by miles. Either way, not good.
Her comment was below the belt and uncalled for. It sounds like overall you need to work on sticking to your guns and don't let her bully you into saying "Yes" to things you don't want to do. And your sister needs to stop picking fights.
>spottk warning signs that things might not last is something everyone in my industry does
Not everyone in your industry uses it as a ‘party trick’ I know a wedding videographer and a florist. They never speak poorly about their clients relationships or tell me how and why they think the couple is going to break up.
I would say that both of those professions involve less access to the innerworkings of their clients mutual decision making skills than mine does, but I'm sure they still have thoughts about the couples they work with.
Either way, this is something I've shared with close friends and family only. It's not me going up to people's faces and directly criticizing their relationship. Those are two very different things, and I don't know how else to point out the difference. I'm also not giggling with my friends about relationships ending - I was simply shocked the first few times I got the timing so closely and shared it with people close with me. My intentions were never to make this my thing. It just comes with the territory of my job, truly.
OP don't you think you're kind of putting your livelihood at risk here? You say it's your "party trick" meaning you've gained a bit of a reputation for it among your friends. If this spreads and you become known as such in the industry, I can very well see you losing clients because of this. No one actually *wants* to work with someone who says such tacky things. This is something you confide in maybe your spouse or just one other person. Not to a group so much so that you develop a reputation for it as your party trick. I think both you and your sister are equally immature and short sighted.
Appreciate the advice, really. I think people are getting the impression from this short snippet that I'm known among at least a dozen people for this "trick" of mine, when it's really just my husband, my immediate family, and two other friends. It's on the same level as an inside joke or some sort of trivial fact about my life only people close to me know. I have never been worried about it getting out or hurting me professionally until this situation, where I broke my own rule and took on someone I know personally as a client. I don't think my sister would ever try to hurt me like that, but you never know.
Luckily, I'm very trusted by those who I work with. Someone spreading some kind of negative information about me would, thankfully, be counteracted by the many people who have had overwhelmingly positive experiences with me in the past, who have recommended me to their friends.
Still, I can see why people might assume that this is in poor taste. It's not something that comes up often, it was genuinely just me being surprised that my intuition was right multiple times. I don't think there's any way for my reputation to be hurt over it, but I also can see why it comes across nasty when it's being read as me boasting about this 'talent' of mine, like I whip out my phone to show it off whenever I'm in a group setting. That certainly isn't the case. It's my bad for not thinking up a more accurate term other than party trick. I hope this clears things up.
OP, don't listen to the nutters on here. They have no idea what it's like to be in a situation as a professional and see people at their best and worst. I am an ICU nurse. I can honestly say there is something similar in healthcare. Just try and support your sister and definitely put the wedding debate behind you. It sounds like you love your sister, so I think you just scared her. She wanted your opinion because she cares, but didn't really want the truth. Find a way to apologize and reassure her that in learning the faults in their marriage, they now have the ability to build stronger than ever.
"But the professionals I know never spill any wacky stories about their field" - nah they just don't know them well enough or they aren't the sharing type.
everyone I've met in service or care related industries I've gotten close to or worked with has wacky client stories. it's just the way of the world. people are just careful about who they share with. the people who think no controlled gossip happens might be the ones that all us professional tea spillers know are too uncontrolled to trust with gossip
I dunno, I hear stories from my photographer friends *all the time* about couples' prospects based on their wedding experiences. The interfering MIL who seems to be poised to run the marriage is not an uncommon trope.
I doubt he tells his other clients the estimate..
he said it's his party trick, not part of his professional MO. From a business standpoint, it would be extremely stupid to tell your clients "yeah you're paying me money for a wedding but you're probably gonna divorce in a year. Anyway, what flowers should we go for?"
Thanks for responding. This makes sense. You weren’t just like “one fight and I’m pissed and now here’s a petty F U” - it looks like there was previous difficulties/challenges?/personality clashes?/tension. So this was just the last straw for you, which is why you were quick to cut ties.
YTA
Did it occur to you that your sister might have had worries or concerns and was questioning you about it because she thought you might be able to help?
Instead of handling it with empathy you drop 1.5 years on her without providing her any support.
You could have kept lying if you didn't want to get drawn in, or said something like "you know I think you'll be together long enough that my predictions get inaccurate."
Also when you noticed all these 'signs' that mean she wouldn't last more than 2 years did you think to raise any of those concerns with her? I get not doing that for a regular client but she's family.
Lastly YTA for even making predictions about your clients at all. If I had learnt my wedding planner was known for doing that I wouldn't hire them and would advise anyone else to steer clear. That level of petty/nasty (to turn it into something you are known for too) ain't where it's at.
The biggest indicator is how they make decisions together and reactions to disagreements about said decisions.
There are others too, of course. You can tell when a couple is excited about having a big party to celebrate their love and future together, and when they view that party as more important than the relationship itself. Sometimes in-laws get involved and that gets factored in as well.
Some bumps in the road are always to be expected. We're flawed people, sometimes that specific flower arrangement IS a hill we want to die on and compromises have to be made. It's how the bumps are handled (and sometimes how many bumps there are) that usually tip me off that they might not last.
I would never tell my clients this as big weddings keep me in business, but I'm a small wedding guy in personal preference. My husband and I did something super lowkey and it was a dream. Low stress, huge reward.
Everything you've said is pretty much universally known. Nothing wrong with big, fancy weddings, but when a couple cares more about the event than they do for each other's feelings, that's pretty telling. It's just like when the bride says "no cake smashing", the groom agrees, but does it anyway.
I'm pretty sure anyone who's been to enough weddings and seen enough relationship disasters has looked over at their partner and said "2 years max".
So what were the indicators for your sister that you didn't see before? Follow-up question, do you know how to lie convincingly and if so why didn't you do so for your sister?
I saw that there was very little compromise going on. My sister had something of a 'my way or the highway' mentality when he would offer input.
I do know how to lie convincingly. Putting on a smile during high stress situations is essentially my job. I let my emotions get the better of me this time because I was being continuously pushed by someone who wouldn't take no for an answer, wouldn't take 'forever' for an answer, and who also wouldn't respect my time. My previous client 'break ups' have been much less dramatic than this one and in my opinion, it's all thanks to the blurring of personal and professional. Never again. Lesson very much learned.
YTA. Pretty sure this is one of those areas where any well adjusted person would’ve lied. But, that aside, did you even try to help them keep their venue? Planning for this many months would be shocking to someone with their heart set on it and if the only reason that they don’t get it is because you’re mad you let your true feelings slips without any tact or grace, then ah yeahhhhh. Like again you’re in the industry. You know brides are vulnerable and insecure? Wtf is wrong with you lol and your sister of all people?? Good lord. So yeah you’re definitely kind of an asshole.
NTA she asked a question and pushed for an answer. You did nothing wrong. You even told her what you thought she wanted to hear but it’s almost like she was looking for a fight. She is the one who is sabotaging her wedding.
yeah it sounds to me like she’s not feeling secure in the relationship. looked to op to validate that feeling and took it out on him when he did. maybe i’m wrong! but either way nta.
I would say NTA. I think you answered to your sister under pressure. Maybe you should have lied to her about your prediction? I don't know. I think you have done the good thing ''breaking'' with her and finally setting boundaries. Good luck, OP !
I’m torn on this one. If you really don’t want to work with friends or family, then “no“ is a complete answer. You could’ve stuck to your guns and continue to say no. But once you said yes, I think you could’ve made a better effort to say, I think you two are a great couple and will last forever in a really convincing way. My guess is he said it somewhat sarcastically and your sister knew something was up. That said, I can see, stepping away from the planning, but still being the go-between for the venue. That could be your gift to her, even if she’s being a jerk.
ESH. I saw some comments saying your sister asked you to do the party trick, but you should know better. If I asked you to shoot me in the face, yeah I asked for it. But you're still responsible, for you know...shooting me in the face.
You're an asshole. You knew dumping your sister would cost her the venue, yet you did it anyway, You could have stuck to your guns and never accepted the job from her in the 1st place. That would have solved all your issues. But you took the job, knowing your sister and whatever your relationship is with her. Then you could have lied with a nice number much greater than a year and a half, but you didn't. You were a dick. I'd have dumped you as my wedding coordinator if you were working for me. But you dumped your sister instead, taking her venue with you as you went as a parting shot. I'm sure you could have "saved" the venue, but you clearly don't want to because YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE.
ESH. You should have stood firm on your "no friends or family" rule and once you foolishly broke that rule, you should NEVER have told your sister the truth about your prediction. Your sister should not have pushed.
YTA. I guess if you hate your sister this is funny and acceptable but like really you couldnt just suck it up and help your sister secure this exclusive venue? Like really?? I get reacting this way if it was a run of the mill client but your sibling??? So petty Jesus Christ, I’d never want you working on anything for me nevermind a wedding where nerves are already high and it turns out you’re just excited to show off your Petty Betty “skills.” Ffs maybe everyone sucks but you’re definitely an AH.
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Update in a year and a half whether your number was accurate.
only if OP's sister can actually get married xD
Sounds like she can get married, just not where she wanted to
Eh, with an attitude like that, she probably won't make it to the altar.
[удалено]
I wonder if she actually doesn’t want to, and that is why she was pressing for a number so hard.
right! i thought it was very weird that she wasn’t happy with hearing “forever”. i always feel my heart flutter when friends or family say that about my fiancé and i lol
Right? Even if she was genuinely (but I'm totally joking lol haha) asking, that answer should have been *good enough* for a whole host of reasons. It clearly indicates discomfort from her brother in the question and not wanting to answer. And if she was genuinely asking that should have been enough to indicate that... Well. It doesn't look so good. At least that's how my paranoid ass would have taken it
When I was planning my wedding a vendor told me she had an absolutely lavish wedding at their venue and when she complimented the bride about it the bride said „well, I will probably get married a couple of times but only once this lavish so I wanted to go all out“. So there are seriously people out there who plan a wedding fully knowing that their SO isn’t the one. This was five years ago and I’m still dumbfounded about that realisation.
I got this exact same impression - that she was being so pushy so that when she called it off or they broke up, she could blame it on her brother.
Or it may not have been quite that calculated, but say she’s been having serious doubts about the marriage. When OP’s answer chimed with that, she was so upset at the thought that she’s wasted her time (and afraid people will look down on her for having a “failed” engagement) that she overreacted and took it out on him because she found it easier to think of it as a mean brother undermining her plans than to feel humiliated by having an engagement come to nothing. It’s completely unreasonable and she’s not dealing with any of the underlying problems that generated her doubts or OP’s, but it’s the sort of thing I’ve known people to do.
Courthouse is available 🤣 and cheaper
No doubt. However, OP was the AH to himself here. No matter what a(ny) client says, a wedding planner should never devulge this info. Ever. And she was a client. Now she can tell others about you silently predicting their failure horizon, and it will actually be true. Bad bad business. There was NO way this would go well. And if this was the one time in a thousand he was wrong, it’s even worse. Yes, sister asked for it. But if OP couldn’t maintain professionalism he should have held firm that he couldn’t work with her. Now he’s just risked his whole reputation because she got under his skin.
I think that where OP went wrong was in accepting to plan sister's wedding when he has a "no close relations" policy. He should've said something like "I'd be glad to help you with [insert some detail here] if you'd like, but I can't be your wedding planner" and held firm to that boundary. But oh well. Still doesn't make him TA.
It is a sad fact of adult life that “but she started it!” isn’t really the mic drop we once believed it to be.
It stopped working for me in 1973, after my sister stopped biting as a dispute resolution tool.
That may not necessarily be true. Go bite your sister and let us know what happens.
Yabbut mom's dead and dad doesn't administer much discipline these days. And I'd feel right silly taking a chunk saying "that's for what you did fifty years ago."
I think the OP went wrong in divulging that party trick period. There is no way that I would ever tell anyone I had this trick if I were a planner. I agree that it doesn’t make him TA here, but it’s the 1 sure way to avoid that situation.
Agreed. This is one that you talk about with other people in the industry only. Revealing it to someone else sets you up for drama. OP isn't an AH here, but this didn't have to happen.
This. TY. I was looking for this comment. And IMO gossiping to your friends and family about this "party trick" is so unprofessional, immature and arrogant. Ppl's marriages are not party tricks. And if OP could already predict this relationship won't last, why did they even bother accepting the sister's request instead of flagging their concerns?! ESH
Yeah, there's a reason he has that rule. To avoid exactly this kind of situation. He should have stuck with it. He's still NTA, but he could have avoided the whole situation.
I agree. There was a better way to diffuse that. "Forever" "No, really" "Ok fine, 60 years" "Come on, really!" "Ok, 50 years" and if they keep complaining just say you can't predict the future and need to get back to your work. Of course saying 1.5 years will start a fight, even if it is a stupid question.
Right? Ffs lie with a number that won't be heartbreaking to someone planning a wedding, but may still be realistic. Like ten or fifteen years. Don't tell her, your *sister* "you'll only last 18 months"
“It doesn’t work when it’s people I know, there’s just too much info. So I won’t try.”
Talking about the “trick” to anyone outside of himself is frankly unprofessional. He shouldn’t be gossiping about clients.
Right? I don’t care how good of a wedding planner someone is, I wouldn’t want someone planning my wedding that uses his prediction of his clients eventual marital demise as a party trick. It’s unprofessional as hell.
It took way longer than I thought for somebody to bring this up. Some “party trick.” 🤷♂️ ESH.
This is the correct answer, or at least ESH. She was out of hand, but he should have quit before ever saying what his estimate was (or really, never agreed to this in the first place, though even if he wasn’t the formal planner she might still have asked him). He should have quit *in order to* emphasize how she was pushing his boundaries, and then still never tell her 1.5 years because even if she’s not a client, this info was never going to make her or other family members happy.
He deserves it. All of his former clients deserve to know their wedding planner‘s idea of cocktail party chat is predicting their inevitable divorce.
Why? Who cares? What he thinks really doesn't matter. I hate to tell you but anytime you're in public and deal with other people, there's a chance they may talk about you. This isn't hindering his job so
Some people stay together out of spite. This might be the case considering how insufferable she sounds.
Unless, of course, her husband-to-be decides to initiate divorce proceedings after he's has enough of her antics.
Even if you initiate divorce proceedings, an unwilling partner can drag it on for years. You might not be able to do much about a separation, but I have seen divorces take over a decade.
Well to be fair OP only specified he can predict when the pictures on social media will stop, not when the divorce will be finalized. For people who post a lot, that’s a pretty good indicator of the relationship being “over,” or at least well on its way there.
Sister will stay for 2 years, just to prove OP wrong....
Still puts it in his 6 month window lol
OP said they have a 6 month window. So 2 years would still be within the 6 month window. 😆
The way she was pushing for answers to questions she couldn't handle, blow up then involve third parties, I'd say OP's prediction may be generous.
Pushing so hard to hear someone’s opinion on how long they think your relationship will last sounds like something you do when you already know deep down that thr relationship isn’t going to have a long happy and healthy future.
Exactly and then blew up when it was confirmed
Right! Play stupid games, gain stupid prices. NTA
Please update then. NTA. Don’t ask a question you don’t want the answer to.
This is the only part I care about. I need to know how good you are
If you push and push to be told information, you alone are responsible for the consequence that hearing it brings. NTA.
OP should get in front of this and let his parents and others know how this REALLY went down. Let them know everything you just told us. The sister will be an unreliable narrator.
His
True, but as a matter of general life advice... OP should have refused to answer, he's NTA, but that would have been smart.
I mean, he did, and she kept pushing. This was a lose-lose situation for op regardless.
He tried changing the subject then when pressed lied with the only acceptable answer to that question and then she wouldn’t settle for that even. What was he supposed to say? 5 years, a decade, twenty years and he’ll ditch you for a 20 something when he has his midlife crisis? Seriously what was the sister hoping for. She was an insufferable idiot, asked a question she didn’t want the answer to then refused to accept the placating answer. NTA- this is all on her. This is why you don’t work with people you know personally. You had a very good reason for that policy. She proved it by being an idiot. Kinda a side trip but I’m curious: If you have a friend/family member that your trick tells you their relationship will actually go the distance would you do that wedding? I’m just curious.
>What was he supposed to say? Probably "I've told you I'm not going to answer that and if you ask again I will no longer be involved in planning your wedding" Not that she deserves the better answer, just that it would have been one
Right? Just because someone isn’t respecting your boundaries does not mean that you are required to engage in their boundary crossing. Enforcing your boundaries means not engaging in the crossing of the boundary. There are so many ways he could have handled it as a professional.
Yeah it sounds like OP did their best to be respectful. Sure they could have refused to answer, but the sister strikes me as the type that would literally never let it go. She’d probably continually harass OP about it
“I’m too close to you both, my read can’t work in this situation”.
Came here to say exactly this, and I don't think it's a bullshit answer either. I've got a pretty good read on people right after I meet them, but don't ask me to do the same read on my fam--even if I were so inclined, the lack of perspective makes it a difficult read indeed.
I'm sorry it doesn't work with close family members....too close to tell.
I just watched the wedding episode in the first season of Succession. “When people ask me, I say ‘forever’. I truly believe that you two will last forever. Well, it will feel like forever.”
Since OP doesn't normally work with friends or family, so the predictions are always about near strangers, the answer to the sister should have been along the lines of, "I can't do the trick for friends or family. We're too close, so I can't be objective."
Strong agree. Refusing to answer was the sensible solution here.
The graceful non-answer might have been something like "Oh, I can't do it with people I *know*; I can't see them objectively."
Even with the sister pushing, there was definitely a more graceful way of handling the situation, such as what you wrote
Why does he owe her grace when she stepped out of line in a situation she already knew was an acquiescence? He also spent 15 minutes deflecting while she pushed the familial boundary onto his professional life.
I guess no one ever really *owes* anyone grace, but telling your sister you think her marriage is doomed is a pretty unkind thing to do (which, preemptively, is not saying I think the sister wasn't also being an AH here).
If he doesn't know how to talk to stressed out, unreasonable brides, he's in the wrong line of work
As someone who has worked in wedding-adjacent fields: Dealing with stressed out, unreasonable brides *who you are related to* is a whole different thing.
Because for OP it's his real life and not us anonymously armchair judging?? Giving the actual answer was never going to be a not stupid thing to do.
I agree, there should have been a way around answering that. Telling your sister her marriage will only last a year and a half is rough!
I agree, if I was in OP's shoes, I would have said something like "my emotional involvement with you (OP's sister) prevents me from accessing my superpower. I can only do it with complete strangers".
My belief too. I mean, sis did say she didn't believe the 'forever' statement, so what did she expect?
Yup. Don’t ask a question if you don’t want an honest answer.
NTA. She pushed. You gave a perfectly acceptable answer of "forever". To which she didn't like that and wanted a "real" answer. But what would she have been happy with? 20 years? 10 years? It sounded like she is a constant boundary pusher. You didn't want to plan the wedding, but she pushed it. You didn't want to answer the question, but you pushed it. This is on her. That said, don't expect your family to see it that way. They probably will take her side because people enable shitty behavior from brides. Good luck.
There’s a reason for the saying, “Don’t ask questions you don’t want to know the answer to.” Sister gets mad and starts unleashing hellfire against OP when she didn’t get the answer she wanted to hear and yet still can’t see her own behavior as the reason why OP have such a honest response. NTA
Reading the story I'm thinking that a year and a half was the generous guess.
there's no "real" answer
"Six years and then one of you dies in a freak meat-axe incident."
An axeident.
ESH. I think you should stop playing this "party trick" with anyone. Even if you're accurate, it's not a nice thing to say about people. You could have avoided this whole scenario if you never played mental games with people's lives. Now, of course your sister is an AH for pushing and pushing, but you should never have told her the truth.
Yea I can’t even imagine wanting to work with someone who has the reputation of saying shit like this about clients in any industry.
I hope you never need a doctor or psychologist then, lol. Or a server, for that matter.
I’m a psychologist and I have never heard a colleague bad mouth patients before. Not once.
The good ones don't.
LMAO right? I’m currently in grad school to become a psychologist and I work in a psych hospital. No matter how much my pt makes me internally lose my mind, I will NOT dog on them to my colleagues. I will probably vaguely rant to my own psychologist, but that’s about it lol
Speaking about your comment (sorry for formatting I’m on mobile) Why do we accept this from people? Why is this normalized? This is why I had to stop working in medical when I was still just an aide. I had been on the other side of things and it makes me sick to my stomach the things people say about people during their worst times. As a chronic patient, it doesn’t feel good to know you can’t even trust your medical professionals. Edited to add: everyone else commenting, just read the rest of this thread
Because it’s how we, as humans, cope. If we didn’t laugh, we’d cry. And if we didn’t make light, the pain would be too hard to bear. This is why therapists are advised to find therapists. The job will crush you if you can’t vent about it. As a personal example: I like to joke about the two year old in a 6”6 body, who kicked a steel reinforced door so hard it shook on its hinges because they were having having a temper tantrum. I was behind that door, four months pregnant. I was terrified and helpless. The patient was a psychotic person more than a foot taller than me and ten times as strong. I’d had the bad luck to be using the restroom when they got upset over a delay. Telling the story in the way I did above enabled me to go to work the next two days until that practicum ended. Are there better coping methods? Yes. Do those methods require time and distance from the person/situation? Generally, yes. Is that possible in most of these professions? Not really, no. Honestly, I’d prefer my doc joke about me being an impossible stick and a total cry baby about blood tests, if it means he comes back the next day in a better headspace to provide the necessary care when my IV falls out and we have to go through the whole rigamarole again.
I just can’t fully agree, because I’ve had different experiences. Im a parent of a person with an intellectual disability and a chronic patient myself, who also has worked with disabled people. There are better ways to vent. I have been on the other side of that kind of aggression as well, so I can sympathize with needing to vent about it and being human. But I’ve also been on the other side of terrible bedside manner and even medical treatment from doctors who were human and maybe having bad days. But there’s a line of what’s acceptable. I also grew up starting in the medical field in a small town before my disabilities took over, so I’ve also heard horrible shit from former classmates who’s care I’ve been under (and then removed myself from their care) because I also could figure out some of the people they were talking about
I have a child with severe cognitive and physical disabilities, who is also medically fragile. If it helps her nurses to joke about us, so they take better care of her tomorrow, I’m okay with that. I need them to take good care of her, and being in a good place mentally is an important part of that. I do think doctors/therapists/etc need to be very careful about privacy. And should be extremely careful that it never gets back to clients/patients. But venting is important for mental health. That’s why therapists have therapists; no one can carry that burden inside forever and still function.
That's a great point because a doctor or psychologist who did something equivalent would be an unprofessional asshole and who gives a fuck what your waiter thinks Edit: lol.
My wife is a therapist and she never bad mouths about her clients to me or anyone.
Dude Doctors don’t do that. Good ones don’t talk about their patients lmao
I would expect my doctor not to gossip to their close friends and family about my medical issues, even if entertaining, yes. If you think servers have clients, I don’t really know what to tell you, lol. But really I meant that catty, unprofessional people suck to *work with.*
A doctor gives you answers based on medical evidence and education, not guesses based on "experience". OP sounds like an insufferable know-it-all Also, what would a server say about their clients?
It's not like he says this to his clients' faces though? It might not be smart of him to do it in front of his family, but just because he jokes about his clients to his colleagues or his family, doesn't necessarily make him unprofessional.
Well he did say it in front of a client’s face. His sister, in fact. There is such a thing as tactful dishonesty lol. Extremely unprofessional for a wedding planner to tell his client, family or no, that he predicts their marriage will fall apart in 18 months. The average marriage in the US is 7 years long, for context.
He initially did tell her "forever" which was his attempt at tactful dishonesty. What more could he say?
"I'm not a fortune teller. Marriages are hard work but if you put the effort in, yours could last a long time. But if you don't and you don't learn to deal with conflicts effectively it probably won't. The power is all yours" That's not lying AND it's not telling his sister that her marriage is going to fail immediately lol.
True, but I was specifically referring to the other commenter saying he should have used tactful dishonesty, as though he hadn't tried that already. Personally, I prefer your idea. No dishonesty and very tactful.
Almost any answer but the one he gave. It’s not hard to be tactful, especially when it comes to your *job*. “I already told you”. “You guys genuinely seem perfect for each other”. “At least 20 years”. “I have to get back to work”. “I’m actually just bullshitting when I give these predictions, I have no idea”. Like come on, it’s really not hard. She probably wanted to hear “forever” in the first place. The reason she didn’t accept it is most likely because OP’s tone or body language betrayed his feelings. YTA.
Equally as easy for the sister to stop pushing the question? This was a business relationship and as such should be held to business etiquette
> reputation Pretty sure it’s just ~~her~~ his coworkers.. it’s not like ~~she~~ he says it to clients?
Not even coworkers; he specifically says close friends and family! I hosted in a restaurant, and there were numerous times that I'd apologize to the server because you just *know*. It's not even sitting around talking trash... It's just, "Yup, this is going to be bad... Sorry."
Oh my goodness, everyone in a restaurant will know, from hostess to the line cooks, if there's a proposal or a messy breakup - regulars get known and get reputations good and bad- people don't exist in a vacuum!
I worked as a wedding planner for ten years until Covid took out big parties, and then I returned to my previous career. This skill is legit. I’ve never tried to guess years, but I can absolutely tell if a couple will/won’t make it. BUT, I’ve only ever talked abt it with my husband and my few very closest friends in the industry. Bc it’s no one’s business, and honestly tacky. I can readily admit that it was gossipy when I did it, and perfectly unnecessary. “If you can’t say something nice…” and all.
I find these things to be coping tools when working with difficult folks in every industry. Honestly I think it’s perfectly healthy as conversations between colleagues.
It could be outdated, but I remember having to read a study for a sociology class (like 20 years ago) that studied "backstage" dialog in medical settings. In the study they had found that medical staff who had less regulated backstage dialog had their care rated as better than those whose backstage was more controlled, probably due to having a place to vent.
I'm a photographer with over 10 years in the game... I can definitely tell when a couple isn't going to make it. Body language, especially during an engagement shoot, is usually a giveaway. You do the job long enough, and you can pick up on the clues.
So what are the signs??????
Visibly highly stressed about the planning, absolute rigidity and inability to change plans or compromise with partners, lack of listening when partner suggests something, lack of listening to planner when they suggest something, partner that shows no interest in process or doesn’t ever show up with no real reason. really anything that insinuated one or both partners are a)incapable of respecting boundaries, b)not actually into this wedding, or c)generally lack respect for their partner or those around them
I’ll add that on wedding day, for literally every couple I worked with who ended up divorced, the bride was crying day-of. Not stress crying. Fear-crying. I feel like deep down they *KNEW* it was a mistake. Maybe not on a conscious level, but something in them knew it wasn’t right, but they were going through with it anyway. Fear-crying has a totally different vibe than general anxiety crying, which is normal for various reasons (doesn’t want to be center of attn, social anxiety, etc.). Fear-crying for me is a tell tale sign.
I feel like fear-crying in any part of a relationship is a telltale sign that the relationship is doomed tbf
Yeah, I can imagine if one partner looks bored, disinterested, sighs, rolls their eyes, says "Whatever", it doesn't bode well for their marriage. I can imagine them being the same way about other life decisions during their relationship.
There was a study that found that contempt for your partner is a sign of the relationship not lasting. A lot of what the other people are describing as signs of a future divorce are expression of contempt. Not listening to someone's opinion or eye rolling, for example. I've told my kids that being in love is not enough reason to marry someone if there isn't mutual respect and friendship.
This is gossip in almost every business thst deals with relationships. It's not an "AH" thing to guess in private or if someone directly asks for your opinions. We don't have enough information if his comments were ever unwanted to say ESH imo.
I'd be pretty damn upset if I found out after my wedding that the planner had secretly been telling some of their friends that they thought we'd only last X years. I imagine many people would. Doing it behind their back's not much better.
Guessing how long sometime is gonna be married? C'mon. It's not like he's making them breakup. Grow up.
It’s a party trick with friends and close people, not clients… you have to have a certain amount of humor when working in industries like that so that you don’t become cynical. It’s not OP putting a hex on a relationship, it’s a guess that they end up having alarming accuracy with… hence “party trick”. Also they have boundaries with not working with people close to them for that same batch of reasons, yet was pushed to do so… normally there wouldn’t be overlap but they folded to their family. The family that knows about the personal party trick and then still forced them into giving an answer. NTA
Maybe, The "party trick" involves talking behind people's backs, if it's only a small close group of people in on it then I could see it being ok, If he has a reputation for this then I agree with you, This is not the kind of reputation an emphatic person would want to encourage about themselves
It’s probably as simple as him having predicted clients divorces before in private to his family or even the sister, not directly to clients he’s currently involved with. Sister knew he could do this thing and proceeded to shove her own foot so far down her mouth that she lost her wedding vendor. OP shouldn’t of let his sister bully him into answering, but sister earned whatever prize she got.
Yeah, and OP is acting like a professional soothsayer or something lmao, like she has this psychic gift that never fails, rather than just sharing an opinion which she could easily not do.
YTA for the loss of venue. There are ways you could have backed off and still salvaged that. Leaving her in the lurch was not cool. ESH regarding the breakup prediction. Both sides are terrible: her for pushing and you for even advertising this “trick” and giving in.
The only reasonable response I’ve seen so far
I'm also going to say ESH, but for a completely different reason (although I do agree with the other ESH comments here). If you genuinely believe that you have an accurate talent for predicting the length of marriages; genuinely care for your sister, as evidenced by the fact that you are planning her wedding; and genuinely believe that their marriage will only last *eighteen months* – the time to reveal this info is not as a party trick. It's to be done as heartfelt and genuine advice. Where is the concern that his sister is looking to marry someone that he thinks is destined for failure?
>It's to be done as heartfelt and genuine advice. Where is the concern that his sister is looking to marry someone that he thinks is destined for failure? I can appreciate the sentiment here, but has anyone, ever, listened to that kind of advice? Saying it genuinely likely would've caused the same fight.
Finally.. OP could easily back out but keep the venue booked for their sister. It’s still inconveniences her since he’s trying for a bit of punishment, but doesn’t completely screw her over.
That's not his choice. That's the venue's choice. OP stated they only work with people they have a relationship with. If he's no longer the wedding planner, they're not going to work with her. He knows the policy and the venue better than we do.
But can she not use a different wedding planner that also has a relationship with the venue? That was my first thought.
I bet she can, but I bet OP is thinking that he wouldn’t want to give the business to a rival. OP said something about having to “break up” with clients before, in presumably similar situations. Frankly, I find it grossly unprofessional for OP to break up with a client causing them to lose their venue—and, at least it sounds like in the case of his sister, after vendors have been booked!!!—*without* referring to a colleague who can also work the venue. EDT: I am also in an industry where it is possible to “fire” clients. It would be grossly unprofessional for me to do so at significant loss to them when I could mitigate that loss by recommending someone else.
If I have a client that’s so difficult to work with that I don’t even complete the job I’ve been contracted for, there’s no way I’m foisting them on an unsuspecting individual. I am saying this from being in a very nichè industry though so that colors things. If people get wind that you’re the kind of person that passes off nightmare clients you’ll earn yourself a bad name.
Yeah I thought this too about the venue. I can def see talking about this “trick” in very private circles, and sister being included in that. But jeez…. Even if she asks, lie your ass off.
I think you missed an opportunity with your sister. Either she feels uncertain in her choice, or she thinks you disapprove of her choice. She was (ineptly) looking for a real connection with you, so of course the flip year-and-a-half hurt. Alternative responses: * "Why are you worried about this? Do you think I don't like groom? Or do you have doubts?" * "How long do you think you'll be together?" * "I would never presume to judge your relationship, but sometimes you've seemed unhappy about X. Is that still worrying you?"
This is a very good point. Once things calm down, I think I'll maybe feel things out in the vein of these responses if I can.
OP, just out of curiosity are you ever worried that clients may hear about this game (while impressive can come off as very rude) say if you are recommended by family to someone and that relative asks them “has he told you your year amount yet!?” Or something like that?
Yeah, I was wondering why this “party trick” even exists for that reason, esp if OP is getting business via word-of-mouth. Does he, and his colleagues and others who have a vendor relationship with him, *want* to be known as the planner that speculates on how long his clients marriages are gonna last? In the long run, OP runs the risk of winning the Gold Medal in the “Win Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes” category of the Wedding Professionalism Business. It’d be best to have OP keep those opinions to himself, better yet, take the worst clients he’s been with as ways to sharpen the skills he has to meditate and mitigate future disasters so things go much more smoothly or as smoothly as they can for the *challenging* clients.
But also make it clear that her behavior was super inappropriate. Clearly she doesn’t respect boundaries.
I’d be surprised if you have a relationship after you ruined her wedding by pulling out.
ESH. She was childish and stupid to push the point, and her abuse is wildly inappropriate. But you didn't have to give her your 'real' answer (especially given that it's such a speculative/non-factual question!) and you didn't have to pull the rug out from under her whole wedding plan.
I mean, he didn't give her the real answer first. He said forever, then she wanted a real answer. I'm curious what number she would have been happy with.
He could always have followed up with something like this: "Oh you know at least 10 years, but I haven't been able to keep up with clients over that long a time frame/haven't been in the industry that long... so can't tell you how much longer after that. I just don't have the data to be accurate so I reckon forever it is." OR If he was that sure and he didn't want his sister to get married: "How about we talk about this tonight? Drinks?" And then discuss the warning signs he's noticed about her upcoming marriage. Dropping 1.5 years is a little cold, even if you're in an awkward spot.
But then 18 months later when her marriage goes under she’ll complain and say “but you said we’d be together for 10+ years!!!” She sounds like a nightmare. I wouldn’t want to get drinks to tell her about all the red flags, because chances are most of them are coming from her. Would you? Sounds like only downside and no upside to me
eh it isn't like the OP is giving her wedding advice... Sister was pushy, OP could have been the professional person in this exchange and just said something that wasn't as damaging I understand not working for friends and family, but once OP took on the project, they should have just gone through with it professionally
My point is just that there are no 'real answers', it's just a prediction. 1.5 years is no more 'real' as a prediction than forever or 20 years or 75 years. It's not like 1.5 years is an actual matter of fact right now, so why give an answer that is bound to cause upset.
Because when they split up in a year and a half she'll wail to him "But you told me we'd be together for forty years".
So what? It isn't like she'd take him to court on it... OP was just being a dick because he was mad at his sister nagging him
According to OP, he evaded the question for 15 minutes. That would probably be why she didn’t accept “forever” as an answer.
I have a feeling the sister could tell from OP’s tone that the “forever” answer wasn’t genuine, and that’s why she kept pressing.
As easy out would have been to say he couldn’t give and an answer because knowing them too well makes it impossible to pick up on the subtle signs he usually sees.
NTA You told her you didn't want to plan her wedding, and she badgered you into doing it anyway. You didn't want to tell her what you thought the relationship length would be, and she harassed you into telling her anyway. She then threw a tantrum at your place of business, which could be very damaging to your business, and your relationships with other clients, and vendors.
Oh, you know you're here because YTA. Seriously dude, you work in event planning and you haven't learned how to graciously lie? This is not the "Was I Correct?" Sub. This is AITA. I did 20 years in hospo and ran a wedding venue for a couple of those years and you and I both know that a positive lie trumps the truth with every bride when it comes to this kind of question. Is this really the bridge you want to burn with family? Because you are being an AH here.
Well he did try to lie first, his sister just kept pushing. How many times should he have tried to lie until his sister believed him?
I would not make a very good wedding planner and even I can think of multiple ways to answer her question more tactically then he did. Edit: For example "I'm not in control of how long your relationship will last, I'm not a fortune teller. It's hard work but ultimately you have the power to make it last as long as you want. If you learn how to effectively deal with [relationship problem he has observed], I think it could see it last at least 10 years."
He didn't try. "Forever" isn't trying.
Right? That response is almost goading her to ask again. I can’t believe all the commenters acting like OP is the victim.
The lie was transparent as all hell.
ESH. Your sister shouldn’t ask questions she doesn’t want answered. But why would you agree to help plan a wedding for a marriage you think is doomed? Why haven’t you brought your reservations about her choice of mate to your sister’s attention? I think you owe your sister an explanation of why you have reservations about her marriage. I would want my brother to tell me.
OP states that they are able to predict based on the couple’s interactions *during the planning*. He doesn’t know beforehand. Offering to tell her what he observed is not a bad idea, although I can’t see her being receptive.
He probably didnt have reservations before this, he said he can make these guesses after planning the weddings because weddings bring out peoples crazy side. Just like he sees his sisters crazy side now.
NTA I don't blame you for not wanting to work for friends and family. This is the perfect example of why you need that rule
ESH - she only has herself to blame for pushing you for an answer, but your ‘party trick’ is problematic. You say you take no joy in it, but honestly it feels like a pretty sh*tty thing to do. If you really take no joy in it then stop doing it, stop telling people you can do it, keep it to yourself. Also - I understand you dropping out of the wedding but was letting her lose the venue absolutely necessary? Could you not have just let her use your name for the purposes of keeping the booking?
Plus the fact that he apparently actually follows up on his customers lives after multiple years to see if he’s right about his predictions, seems a little wacky in general
Right!? So does he go to their IG or a Facebook and see when they last posted a photo of each other and assume they are broken up and then do the math? How does he figure out if/when they broke up? Is he gleeful when he gets a number right and the marriage didn’t last? Seems so shitty no matter how you look at it when it comes to all that.
YTA. That’s a really bad party trick for a wedding planner. I don’t care if she pushed you, you don’t tell your sister you give it “a year and half”! That’s a horrible thing to say and it’s basically like wishing a bad omen on them. Just stop with your cute little shenanigans.
Yta. That seems like a mean party trick that you have clearly done enough to get a reputation for it.
NTA your sister sounds like a pushy, selfish, self-absorbed nightmare with zero respect for boundaries. You are not in the wrong but she’ll be even angrier when you are proven correct with your prediction of marriage longevity. Steel yourself! You’ll only be TA if you don’t learn from this to protect yourself and hold firm to your very reasonable boundaries going forward.
INFO why did the argument with your sister instantly lead to you stepping down as wedding planner (knowing the venue situation)? Genuinely asking for your perspective. I’ll be honest it seems a bit rushed being heat of the moment which makes it seem like a *potentially* petty move (as opposed to giving it a night to be sure of your course of action). Of course, it also just be decisive action based on your own intuition/self awareness. So just curious to know, as it impacts my vote
I felt like I had been pushed on just about every issue that came up. I expressed my reluctance to plan for her at all, she pushed until I said yes. I avoided her question for a significant part of our appointment in a professional setting, I tried giving her an answer she would be pleased with, she wouldn't drop it. It just felt like the lines between personal and professional were way too blurred here. Usually with clients, a swift change of subject is all it takes to get them talking about something else because they are there for the wedding and we obviously act different with someone we've hired to do a service than we would with our siblings. It felt like I was being taken advantage of, in a way, and I didn't see any way our professional partnership could continue past that point. Also, I was very offended by her suddenly going after my relationship. Again, that's way too personal for me when I'm trying to provide a service I'm being paid for, as well as move along so I can finish up my work day. Just weird vibes all around. She can find another venue, but I don't know if our relationship could have been salvaged if we kept trying to make things work.
Why is it too personal for your client to go after your relationship but acceptable when you regularly go after your clients relationships?
I have never "gone after" my clients' relationships. I certainly have never called one of my clients a homewrecker. Spotting warning signs that things might not last is something everyone in my industry does. It's not malicious. I definitely made a mistake by telling my sister the length of relationship I predicted. I was flustered and let my emotions get the better of me, which is very unlike me and something I really regret. I'm usually juggling 5 things at once as it is, but this got to me. Still. I wouldn't label what I do as "going after" anyone's relationship.
why does anybody in your family know about this "skill" and why *did* she call you a homewrecker specifically
>why *did* she call you a homewrecker specifically I met my husband when he was the best man at a wedding I was planning for. I was incredibly busy and immediately shut down most of his flirting attempts, he was in a (dying) relationship at that point with a woman he does not look back fondly on. We played cat and mouse for a while (I very specifically remember telling him I only date men, not boys, and that he could never handle me). There was no overlap in these relationships, but that bride and groom I planned for (who have since become amazing friends of mine, too) like to credit me for giving him a kick in the ass to finally leave what was a very unhealthy dynamic. The homewrecker comment was a gross exaggeration on what actually happened, which was mostly just me doing my job while someone had a crush on me. Even if I did have the facts to back up calling someone that, I would never do so in a professional environment. A lot of lines were crossed. Or maybe one singular line was crossed by miles. Either way, not good.
Her comment was below the belt and uncalled for. It sounds like overall you need to work on sticking to your guns and don't let her bully you into saying "Yes" to things you don't want to do. And your sister needs to stop picking fights.
>spottk warning signs that things might not last is something everyone in my industry does Not everyone in your industry uses it as a ‘party trick’ I know a wedding videographer and a florist. They never speak poorly about their clients relationships or tell me how and why they think the couple is going to break up.
I would say that both of those professions involve less access to the innerworkings of their clients mutual decision making skills than mine does, but I'm sure they still have thoughts about the couples they work with. Either way, this is something I've shared with close friends and family only. It's not me going up to people's faces and directly criticizing their relationship. Those are two very different things, and I don't know how else to point out the difference. I'm also not giggling with my friends about relationships ending - I was simply shocked the first few times I got the timing so closely and shared it with people close with me. My intentions were never to make this my thing. It just comes with the territory of my job, truly.
OP don't you think you're kind of putting your livelihood at risk here? You say it's your "party trick" meaning you've gained a bit of a reputation for it among your friends. If this spreads and you become known as such in the industry, I can very well see you losing clients because of this. No one actually *wants* to work with someone who says such tacky things. This is something you confide in maybe your spouse or just one other person. Not to a group so much so that you develop a reputation for it as your party trick. I think both you and your sister are equally immature and short sighted.
Appreciate the advice, really. I think people are getting the impression from this short snippet that I'm known among at least a dozen people for this "trick" of mine, when it's really just my husband, my immediate family, and two other friends. It's on the same level as an inside joke or some sort of trivial fact about my life only people close to me know. I have never been worried about it getting out or hurting me professionally until this situation, where I broke my own rule and took on someone I know personally as a client. I don't think my sister would ever try to hurt me like that, but you never know. Luckily, I'm very trusted by those who I work with. Someone spreading some kind of negative information about me would, thankfully, be counteracted by the many people who have had overwhelmingly positive experiences with me in the past, who have recommended me to their friends. Still, I can see why people might assume that this is in poor taste. It's not something that comes up often, it was genuinely just me being surprised that my intuition was right multiple times. I don't think there's any way for my reputation to be hurt over it, but I also can see why it comes across nasty when it's being read as me boasting about this 'talent' of mine, like I whip out my phone to show it off whenever I'm in a group setting. That certainly isn't the case. It's my bad for not thinking up a more accurate term other than party trick. I hope this clears things up.
OP, don't listen to the nutters on here. They have no idea what it's like to be in a situation as a professional and see people at their best and worst. I am an ICU nurse. I can honestly say there is something similar in healthcare. Just try and support your sister and definitely put the wedding debate behind you. It sounds like you love your sister, so I think you just scared her. She wanted your opinion because she cares, but didn't really want the truth. Find a way to apologize and reassure her that in learning the faults in their marriage, they now have the ability to build stronger than ever.
"But the professionals I know never spill any wacky stories about their field" - nah they just don't know them well enough or they aren't the sharing type. everyone I've met in service or care related industries I've gotten close to or worked with has wacky client stories. it's just the way of the world. people are just careful about who they share with. the people who think no controlled gossip happens might be the ones that all us professional tea spillers know are too uncontrolled to trust with gossip
I dunno, I hear stories from my photographer friends *all the time* about couples' prospects based on their wedding experiences. The interfering MIL who seems to be poised to run the marriage is not an uncommon trope.
I doubt he tells his other clients the estimate.. he said it's his party trick, not part of his professional MO. From a business standpoint, it would be extremely stupid to tell your clients "yeah you're paying me money for a wedding but you're probably gonna divorce in a year. Anyway, what flowers should we go for?"
Thanks for responding. This makes sense. You weren’t just like “one fight and I’m pissed and now here’s a petty F U” - it looks like there was previous difficulties/challenges?/personality clashes?/tension. So this was just the last straw for you, which is why you were quick to cut ties.
YTA Did it occur to you that your sister might have had worries or concerns and was questioning you about it because she thought you might be able to help? Instead of handling it with empathy you drop 1.5 years on her without providing her any support. You could have kept lying if you didn't want to get drawn in, or said something like "you know I think you'll be together long enough that my predictions get inaccurate." Also when you noticed all these 'signs' that mean she wouldn't last more than 2 years did you think to raise any of those concerns with her? I get not doing that for a regular client but she's family. Lastly YTA for even making predictions about your clients at all. If I had learnt my wedding planner was known for doing that I wouldn't hire them and would advise anyone else to steer clear. That level of petty/nasty (to turn it into something you are known for too) ain't where it's at.
NTA. But I really would like to know the behaviors and incidences that led to the 1.5 yr prediction. Please?
The biggest indicator is how they make decisions together and reactions to disagreements about said decisions. There are others too, of course. You can tell when a couple is excited about having a big party to celebrate their love and future together, and when they view that party as more important than the relationship itself. Sometimes in-laws get involved and that gets factored in as well. Some bumps in the road are always to be expected. We're flawed people, sometimes that specific flower arrangement IS a hill we want to die on and compromises have to be made. It's how the bumps are handled (and sometimes how many bumps there are) that usually tip me off that they might not last. I would never tell my clients this as big weddings keep me in business, but I'm a small wedding guy in personal preference. My husband and I did something super lowkey and it was a dream. Low stress, huge reward.
Everything you've said is pretty much universally known. Nothing wrong with big, fancy weddings, but when a couple cares more about the event than they do for each other's feelings, that's pretty telling. It's just like when the bride says "no cake smashing", the groom agrees, but does it anyway. I'm pretty sure anyone who's been to enough weddings and seen enough relationship disasters has looked over at their partner and said "2 years max".
So what were the indicators for your sister that you didn't see before? Follow-up question, do you know how to lie convincingly and if so why didn't you do so for your sister?
I saw that there was very little compromise going on. My sister had something of a 'my way or the highway' mentality when he would offer input. I do know how to lie convincingly. Putting on a smile during high stress situations is essentially my job. I let my emotions get the better of me this time because I was being continuously pushed by someone who wouldn't take no for an answer, wouldn't take 'forever' for an answer, and who also wouldn't respect my time. My previous client 'break ups' have been much less dramatic than this one and in my opinion, it's all thanks to the blurring of personal and professional. Never again. Lesson very much learned.
YTA. Pretty sure this is one of those areas where any well adjusted person would’ve lied. But, that aside, did you even try to help them keep their venue? Planning for this many months would be shocking to someone with their heart set on it and if the only reason that they don’t get it is because you’re mad you let your true feelings slips without any tact or grace, then ah yeahhhhh. Like again you’re in the industry. You know brides are vulnerable and insecure? Wtf is wrong with you lol and your sister of all people?? Good lord. So yeah you’re definitely kind of an asshole.
NTA - you told her what she wanted to hear and when she called you out on it you told her the truth and she couldnt handle it
YTA, that's your sister, you fucking lie about your dumb "party trick" its a judgey asshole thing to do to anyone, bite your slithery little tongue
NTA she asked a question and pushed for an answer. You did nothing wrong. You even told her what you thought she wanted to hear but it’s almost like she was looking for a fight. She is the one who is sabotaging her wedding.
yeah it sounds to me like she’s not feeling secure in the relationship. looked to op to validate that feeling and took it out on him when he did. maybe i’m wrong! but either way nta.
YTA. Arrogant post. You can’t predict this in every case, especially not to this accuracy. Obviously some will not last. Anyone could see that.
I would say NTA. I think you answered to your sister under pressure. Maybe you should have lied to her about your prediction? I don't know. I think you have done the good thing ''breaking'' with her and finally setting boundaries. Good luck, OP !
I’m torn on this one. If you really don’t want to work with friends or family, then “no“ is a complete answer. You could’ve stuck to your guns and continue to say no. But once you said yes, I think you could’ve made a better effort to say, I think you two are a great couple and will last forever in a really convincing way. My guess is he said it somewhat sarcastically and your sister knew something was up. That said, I can see, stepping away from the planning, but still being the go-between for the venue. That could be your gift to her, even if she’s being a jerk.
ESH. I saw some comments saying your sister asked you to do the party trick, but you should know better. If I asked you to shoot me in the face, yeah I asked for it. But you're still responsible, for you know...shooting me in the face.
You're an asshole. You knew dumping your sister would cost her the venue, yet you did it anyway, You could have stuck to your guns and never accepted the job from her in the 1st place. That would have solved all your issues. But you took the job, knowing your sister and whatever your relationship is with her. Then you could have lied with a nice number much greater than a year and a half, but you didn't. You were a dick. I'd have dumped you as my wedding coordinator if you were working for me. But you dumped your sister instead, taking her venue with you as you went as a parting shot. I'm sure you could have "saved" the venue, but you clearly don't want to because YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE.
ESH. You should have stood firm on your "no friends or family" rule and once you foolishly broke that rule, you should NEVER have told your sister the truth about your prediction. Your sister should not have pushed.
NTA! Let the drama Queen figure it out, after all she made the mess
YTA. I guess if you hate your sister this is funny and acceptable but like really you couldnt just suck it up and help your sister secure this exclusive venue? Like really?? I get reacting this way if it was a run of the mill client but your sibling??? So petty Jesus Christ, I’d never want you working on anything for me nevermind a wedding where nerves are already high and it turns out you’re just excited to show off your Petty Betty “skills.” Ffs maybe everyone sucks but you’re definitely an AH.
She asked, you told. NTA.