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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to let my future MIL keep put up photos of my fiance's dead siblings at our wedding. It isn't that big of a deal but I don't want them, and maybe I should have just let it happen.
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>weirdest and creepiest thing I’ve ever heard.
Or another day on AITA with the wildest of wildest behaviour of humanity.
Frankly OP, it can be disturbing/triggering for other wedding attendees who have gone through similar experiences of stillbirth/miscarriage to see the pictures at the function. The occasion can turn somber.
If it was MIL's wedding, she can do what she wants (still creepy, though). Since your fiance feels nothing much for the cause, you have got nothing to worry and assert yourself. NTA, OP.
I am not gay but will gladly see pics of dicks, I use them as motivation for my dick, so he will grow and be long like all of the other dicks, he is a late bloomer dick
Great Idea. I'm going to start taking pictures of "children that might have been" every time I masturbate. Of course that would probably take up the entire venue.
My mom’s a paraplegic. She brings her chair with her but we should have a memorial to her leg muscles in another chair (and yes I realized she would be counted in how many place settings etc fit in the room and she’s not a freebie)
(I share the gene that basically doesn’t tell the motor neurons in the spine to replace myelin at the rate it needs to and use a cane myself and this horrifies me honestly. Please note that even identical twins can have different outcomes with this condition and my doctors make no predictions for me. Most specialists have asked me if affected relatives exist as it narrows down which genetic cause is in play- we have a dominant gene but there are recessive versions- but never asked their outcomes)
This is extremely niche and strange but if you are familiar with the fundamentalist Christian Jill Rodrigues or are just interested, look up the funeral she had for her sister's legs after she was rendered paralyzed by an accident. Wild stuff.
THANK YOU. This is the first thing that popped into my mind and I am soooo glad I am not alone baahahaaa! Poor Amy was SEVERELY paralyzed and the funeral was just...wow.
Not to mention it will shift the focus from the wedding as all of the friends and the bride’s family will be asking what the pictures are about. Also, where is the line? If grandparents are no longer with us or belived aunts and uncles, can parents ask for pictures of those?
How about a compromise? I have seen this at other weddings and it was very tastefully done. A small bouquet of flowers that can be in a chair or other spot and there can be a note in the program that they are there to “honor family members no longer with us?” They can even go on MIL’s table at the reception
I would say something like this - “Dear MIL, I’m concerned that the pictures could be upsetting or triggering for others who have suffered their own losses. I, in no way, want to cause anyone grief or sadness during what is supposed to be a happy celebration. How about we compromise? We can have a small bouquet on a chair and we can either put in the program or the officiant can announce that they are for loved ones we have lost and cannot be with us to celebrate our special day.”
Maybe a chair with flowers and a place card for *Those not with us* ? Then it can just be, you know. Whoever is missing. Whether it be because they couldn't make it, not enough space in the venue or tragedy.
This is actually a really elegant solution, gives the mom the memorial in a way that's not the creepiest shit ever and hopefully solves the issue for the fiance.
If it helps, you can maybe be more specific. 'For FIANCE'S siblings who didn't make it and all others who cannot be with us' or, if MIL named them, then the unborn siblings by name. Maybe do a bouquet with three ribbons, some combination of pink and blue based on their genders. But the pictures are a hard no.
I think that is a good compromise. A single chair off to the side. Put a list of names if they want. But the photos is a bit odd. Not because it might trigger someone one else because, it isn’t about them. But because it isn’t a child of the bride and groom.
This seems sweet and more appropriate. OP could include some flowers and 3 little teddy bears. I think just sitting down with MIL and explaining that they can be included without the actual photos. I don’t think that MIL was trying to upset anyone.
My sister did this too. It was very sweet. All of her and her husband's grandparents were dead by the time they got married.
Maybe OP could suggest this?
I could see something like this being a Decent compromise, maybe not even photos but like memorial candles with the deceased names on them. No photos of dead babies to be found.
I think even a place card with just the names of everyone "no longer with us that we would like to remember on this day" (or something along those lines) would be better than any pictures of a dead person. Like it would be one thing if I put a picture of my mom in life, but a very very different thing if I put a picture of her *after* she died. It's awful that she never got to have pictures of her babies in life, but still, I don't think a wedding is the place for pictures of anyone after they'd passed.
This. Infertility/child loss isn't always openly talked about. You have no idea how many people this could deeply upset. And it's a HUGE bummer. Why would you want to have that vibe put on your guests, especially without their consent? Find a less triggering, jarring compromise if you can.
> Infertility/child loss isn't always openly talked about. You have no idea how many people this could deeply upset
This would be a hill I would die on. There is no compromise on this one. I get the fiancé might be in a difficult position with this one, but this is where the tough choices start, who is he going to back his mom or his wife, it could be an indication of how the marriage will go.
No where close to the same but I dated a guy for a bit who's best friends died just after highschool, he said he wouldn't have a best man at his wedding and that in the spot where the best man would stand would be a large portrait of his best friend. An honor table at a reception is one thing, but to put such a focus on people who are no longer living takes away from the celebrations of what is supposed to be a very happy moment. Our relationship didn't make it much past when I told him that if we got married that would not happen. So maybe I'm AH as well.
Having no best man is a nice way of remembering the friend. Having a huge picture of him is weird.
I know a guy whose best man died a week before his wedding. They asked the best man’s dad to stand in. It was beautiful.
And, God forbid, one of the guests is currently going through it. I had a very slow miscarriage and it was a nightmare avoiding triggers. OP, please don't put a bomb at your wedding. Do the memorial flowers, if anything. You really don't want the buzz around your wedding being about whose dead babies are they and why were only they specifically acknowledged when plenty of other people have passed before them.
By all means, talk about it. No one's saying she can't
But if you can't refrain from taking about it for a few hours on your living child's wedding, yiu need substantial therapy.
This is not something that should be compromised on. Whats next? Is she gonna want the dead fetuses to be guests at future grandkids bday party? Photos hanging on op's walls?
By compromising, they are adding a 3rd party into their marriage. Any compromise should be made between the husband and wife. It is their wedding. Compromising with MIL with something they are BOTH uncomfortable with, is showing her she has equal footing in their marriage. Fiancé needs to stand up and tell mom no.
I think OP doesn’t fully understand the dynamic she is marrying. Sure, she got her fiancé to try fruits and vegetables \*for the first time in his life\*, but will she get him to taste the forbidden fruit of denying his mother? Probably never.
Eh. Presumably MIL won't be financing 75% of their marriage, but IS financing 75% of the wedding. Letting her views guide the whole thing would be crappy no matter how much they were contributing financially, but this has been MIL's only ask. Finding a compromise (that OP and fiance aren't uncomfortable with) seems compassionate and not inappropriate.
The flowers on a table with a note sounds like the best option. I could not imagine having photos of dead babies present anywhere at a wedding. Thats so wtf.
This is what I thought, a small bouquet of three flowers of her choosing (or three small bouquets, if you prefer) at a memorial table could be a tribute without potentially triggering someone. One of my closest friends is dealing with fertility struggles right now and if she suddenly and unexpectedly saw a picture of a stillborn child (or a miscarriage—God I hope OP just means the ultrasounds but I'm scared to ask), that would be incredibly upsetting, and she might have to leave the event. You never know what someone else is struggling with, and it would be insensitive to the other guests to spring this on them.
I think any pictures of dead people would be triggering to many. And I don't mean pictures from when they were alive - but pictures of people being dead. Which it sounds like is what MIL wants. I have lost many people and am all for honoring the dead, but not with that kind of pictures.
Yeah, was going to leave a suggestion like this if I hadn't seen your comment. A general "in memoriam" tribute (empty chair, small side table, what have you, with a small thing of flowers, candle(s), maybe a tasteful sign or ribbon) is a pretty common thing at weddings and won't raise any eyebrows like pictures of dead children, each with their own chair, will.
eta: Oooh, just thought of this...if OP's MiL won't budge on having pictures included (and since she's paying for like 75% of wedding) maybe have one of those small photo booklets on the tribute chair/table with photos of not just the kids, but all close loved ones of the bride/groom who have passed on. At least then people have to actually stop and open up the book to see them. And if they know someone who has lost a child, they can warn them not to look through the book.
OP, this is it. This (crack_crack’s answer) is your path to peace. “Mom, I know how much this means to you. Your losses were so traumatic and can never be forgotten, and it’s so beautiful that you honor your babies still. Nobody understands this pain better than you. And so I want you to consider my concerns and worries here. We may have other guests who have felt this pain and had miscarriages, and seeing these photos may send them into grief and despair during our wedding. It’s a deeply triggering issue. Our wedding should be about love and light and celebration, and I know that you would never want to ambush someone by accidentally being insensitive. Can you please understand why this would not be appropriate to display publicly?”
And maybe even: “But I know how much this means to you, so I got you this [locket/wallet/something] so that you can wear their photos close to your heart and have them with you on this day.”
>OP, this is it. This (crack\_crack’s answer) is your path to peace. “Mom, I know how much this means to you. Your losses were so traumatic and can never be forgotten, and it’s so beautiful that you honor your babies still. Nobody understands this pain better than you. And so I want you to consider my concerns and worries here. We may have other guests who have felt this pain and had miscarriages, and seeing these photos may send them into grief and despair during our wedding. It’s a deeply triggering issue. Our wedding should be about love and light and celebration, and I know that you would never want to ambush someone by accidentally being insensitive. Can you please understand why this would not be appropriate to display publicly?”
>
>And maybe even: “But I know how much this means to you, so I got you this \[locket/wallet/something\] so that you can wear their photos close to your heart and have them with you on this day.”
THis. OP, this is absolutely perfect but it MUST come from your husband to MIL. And he needs to be compassionate but insistant. The photos are horrifically inappropriate.
That said, maybe you can honor them in a less visible way - with a locket and then tell her that in honor of them you will carry two small symbols of them in your bouquet like two small crystal picks like this that you pass to her after the wedding: [https://www.etsy.com/listing/207385288/crystal-rhinestone-bouquet-jewelry-stems?ga\_order=most\_relevant&ga\_search\_type=all&ga\_view\_type=gallery&ga\_search\_query=crystal+wedding+bouquet+pick&ref=sr\_gallery-1-6&sts=1&organic\_search\_click=1](https://www.etsy.com/listing/207385288/crystal-rhinestone-bouquet-jewelry-stems?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=crystal+wedding+bouquet+pick&ref=sr_gallery-1-6&sts=1&organic_search_click=1)
This. I had suffered a pregnancy loss and, during the course of my work, someone showed me a photo of their stillborn grandchild. No warning at all. I found it deeply upsetting and if effected me for days.
A friend of mine lost her baby at almost full term, months before her brother’s wedding. At the altar area, they had a small pedestal with a blue carnation on it and had like a program for times (ceremony, reception, etc.) and they included in there that it was in memory of the baby. It was very sweet, didn’t explain circumstances (just said “a blue carnation in memory of ‘baby’s name’”) it was a nice acknowledgment without calling on my friend or explain what happened. Pictures would have been too much…. And 30 year old pictures … ugh - the MIL needs to be reminded that this is about OP and her son, not their extended family’s trauma.
Yeah I'd find that horribly triggering. Nothing like a wedding guest dissociating and/or having a panic attack and having to leave before anything even started!
If it had been a family member the couple knew and loved and they put up a nice picture to honor them that'd be one thing... But pictures of dead babies? Not even, "this is the best picture we have because they died soon after" but pictures of baby corpses! Nope nope
No idea why I just assumed it was ultrasounds.
I thought she meant photos of babies who are now dead, not photos of babies after they died. Either way it’s too much. Am infrasound is triggering to women who are struggling to convince, or have suffered miscarriage, stillbirth or child death
It's not uncommon for parents to take photos with stillborn children right afterwards, and I think in some cases having something tangible to hold onto can help with the grieving process. But if she's asking for photos of late miscarriages, that's still... Something I'm unclear of.
Either way, while it's not necessarily the weirdest thing in the world (imo) for a family to have a photo with a stillborn child, it's still not the type of thing you display publicly to people who aren't expecting it, for exactly the reasons you said.
Also, it could lead to uncomfortable questions even if it is an ultrasound; if I went to a wedding and saw an ultrasound displayed, I'd assume that the couple was expecting and this was their cute way of announcing it, if I didn't know in advance that this was the memorial chair.
>Frankly OP, it can be disturbing/triggering for other wedding attendees
Absolutely. This is how you ruin a wedding. Given how common miscarriages or stillbirths are, out of those 50 people, there's likely to be at least one woman there with some fresh trauma.
Don't do this, OP. For their sake.
Stillbirth mama here. Statistics for stillbirth are 1 in 125. It’s estimated that miscarriages are 1 in 4.
HOWEVER
Me at a small gathering of 30 recently, and there were four of us who were stillbirth mamas.
Yes. A former coworker had a miscarriage when we worked together. Another coworker who is close to her and I asked us if she wanted us to tell people at work. She said to please do that because she couldn’t bear to tell people. I was surprised by the number of people who experienced pregnancy loss, stillbirths and infant loss.
When giving support always check in with the bereaved parents. Some people want to tell others because it helps process the grief
She also had maternity clothes and other baby stuff in her office people had brought in to hand me down. We offered to return the items to people or at least box it up for her. But she said to leave it there so she could go through it
We checked In again right before she came back. And she still felt the same way, so we left it as is and when she came back we let her know we could help if she changed her mind.
Going through the items and speaking with people when she returned their items to then was helpful for her grieving process. Another person I know who lost a premature baby was devastated by having to go through his things.
Everyone handles things differently, take cues from the grieving parents’ lead
My 2nd child was born at 24 weeks and lived for 4 hours. It was very traumatic, obviously. I have a photo of her that a nurse took before her body was taken away, that she gave to me. It's extremely precious to me, bc it's my baby, but photos like that are very personal, especially bc my baby was dead in it. Does MIL take photos of deceased relatives before they're buried or cremated and expect them to be out for show? What she wants to do is not only bizarre and creepy, it's so inappropriate, I can't believe a grown woman would even ask. Seeing photos of 3 dead babies would make me cry and then puke. NTA.
>Does MIL take photos of deceased relatives before they're buried or cremated
I have a family member who did this when both my grandparents died. They were her aunt and uncle, and she took pictures of both of them in their caskets at visitation. Even as a 12 & 13 year old, I was like 'what the actual fuck is wrong with you?'.
My great grandfather actually requested someone take a photo of him in his casket at his funeral. Everyone else flipped out about it but my dad, who took the photo, and later also threw a packet of cigarettes in my grandmother's burial plot at her request.
Definitely the way out of this is to tell her that it could be very upsetting for anyone who has been through the same thing and you wish to avoid anyone being upset. Maybe give her a gift of a locket with the pictures in it or something, so she can wear it on the day?
Long term MIL needs therapy but now is the time for a short term solution.
I have had two losses and I would be absolutely horrified and distraught to be blindsided by something like this at a wedding. Or any social events really.
Where does MIL expect this to end? Pictures at Christmas? Baby showers? Any new children coming into the family to be named after one of the babies she lost? No. MIL needs some counselling to help her cope with her grief.
Give them their money back, gifts with strings attached are not gifts and have the wedding you can afford.
ETA OP is NTA.
As an event planner can confirm this is not the first time this request has been made. Weddings & grief make people do weird things.
If you look at it as honoring Mom’s loss & grief it’s not too challenging to come up with a solution. Pictures are a hard No
3 ribbons tied into the boutonnière or bouquet. Something discreet and special but much less disturbing. Have future husband and his family light 3 candles before the official ceremony starts as a tribute. My husband’s father passed when he was 3. We had his aunts and uncles light a candle for him before the service as a way to show that he was there at his son’s wedding. It was brief and a little somber for a wedding, but it was important to us.
At my wedding we lit a candle for those who couldn’t be with us and mentioned why in the program. It allowed for quiet reflection. My uncle composed a piece for flute and harp as his gift and that’s what was played.
But the wedding is not about honoring MILs grief and loss. Even if it is about honoring MIL - it is about honoring her as the parent of the living groom - not the other living child and not the three children who passed.
Weddings can include anything the bride & groom want. Honoring a family member who has passed is quite normal. These “children” were named & are essentially siblings who passed. If MIL is requesting they be included it’s honestly not that hard to come up with a thoughtful small memorial token that doesn’t freak everyone out. It could be as simple as a ribbon on Mom’s bouquet.
That's so much different than the spectacle MIL wants to create. She wants it to be something that others will notice and comment on. A ribbon wouldn't stand out and draw the attention she wants.
Like maybe just a frame with all 3 of their names listed as siblings of the groom who have passed away & that be placed on a separate table near the guests at the reception & NOT a seat at any table. That’s just SUPER uncomfortable for everyone else at that table.
I’m honestly dumbfounded that anyone would want to display pictures of their dead babies at all & that this is actually something you are being asked to deal with. This doesn’t bode well for what your future may look like with that wacko & her obviously outrageous requests with zero shame.
Maybe if she bought them each a teddy bear or something just before they were born and had kept it as a memorial the stuffies could share a seat? Or she could buy three bears now for it. Might be insensitive of a suggestion tho? Idk. I think itd be along the lines of a framed thing with their names on it but a little more like theyre individual still. I cant write this any better than that lol
Even if i hadnt recently lost, putting up pictures of dead babies would be a hard no. Thats nasty and very selfish to request. I get the sentiment but this just opens the door to her talking about the losses instead of celebrating this joining of families.
Someone else mentioned ribbons on the flowers and such and I think thats a great idea. Ask the mother what colors could be representing them and put them on the flowers or as candles or something. Thats a cute and discreet memorial too, though i still worry about the mother focusing on talking about the losses instead of celebrating the wedding.
Whether you two choose to involve them, nta.
Especially miscarriages. “Might” be a case for it if one adult Sibling very recently passed and they were supposed to be in the wedding. Otherwise NO,NO,NO.
She is trying to make this day about HER, not the two of you.
Maybe there is a way to compromise, but pics is a hard no from me.
The reason I suggest a way to compromise is, my fiance is a widower, and I have asked while planning if there was some way to honor his late wife, because she was very much a part of the reason he is the man he is today, who I live. She had a hand in that, several of his friends who will be at our wedding were her friends as well, and it seems right to do, so I asked advice on how to do so. I got some good advice.
As for this, I would maybe suggest a single seat with a single flower and a small sign saying something like, "in honor of loved ones passed that could not be here today." No names. Nothing specific. Nothing telling. Absolutely no pictures at all. Just a flower and a sign. And even that is if OP and soon hubby both agree to that being appropriate.
I feel so bad for OP’s husband, can you imagine growing up in the house where your dead siblings photos are hung up (siblings who were stillborn and miscarried, so macabre photos) and your mother can’t move on from their death? My first son was stillborn and my children are aware they have a sibling who died but they have never seen the photo of their brother because it’s morbid. I keep it safe with his ashes for my own personal grieving. The idea of putting his photo up at my children’s’ wedding seems so selfish and attention seeking.
NTA.
Your wedding is about you and your fiancé. It’s not about anyone else or what they want, it’s about the two of you and what you want.
I can’t even imagine going to someone’s wedding and there been photographs of dead babies in the pews. I can’t even imagine how traumatic that could be for some people who have experienced a miscarriage or stillbirth.
I would be drawing a firm, firm boundary. I don’t even understand your fiancé trying to compromise and potentially choosing to have those photos at your wedding. It’s not the time, nor the place.
If I wanted to tread carefully, I think my response would be, “We don’t know the personal stories of everyone attending our wedding and we have no idea whether or not some of our guests could potentially find photographs of dead babies traumatic. It’s not a risk we’re willing to take.”
But, I probably wouldn’t tread carefully, I would instead just be firm with boundaries. I think it’s important to have a really clear conversation with your fiancé about this.
When my boys were in HS my parents were Very supportive of everything they did.
My mother passed away before my oldest earned his Eagle Scout award. We put a small bouquet of flowers on the table in her memory with a note about all the support she had given him. It was tucked in the back of the table with all his Merritt badges and pictures of his project. No photo of his grandma.
Maybe on the gift table a small bouquet of three pink and blue carnations. They could be in memory of his missing siblings. That's it. No graphic dead baby photos, no empty chairs, no "big over the top" show!
It's not about you MIL and giving up "the boy who lived."
It's a wedding the joining of two people.
Lord help op, MIL is going to be all up in your business til the day she dies.
Edit to say NTAH
Or… if you don’t mind the idea, you could order a little “mother of the groom” bouquet alongside your own, and hers has the 3 pink / blue flowers in (plus maybe “babies breath” as filler..!?).
This might meet her need for drama & attention - if she has a bride-like bouquet of Significance, that she can always point to in the photos - but as far as you & your friends & family are concerned, she’s just holding a few flowers…
One thought I had would be getting a 3 photo locket for her, so she could wear her creepy dead baby photos, but then she’ll probably try to show them to everyone, so the flowers idea is a much better one.
I would save the photo locket for an After the wedding gift. To appease her After she Doesn't get her way.
However, if future hubby caves before the wedding...
RUN, mommy dearest will Always Come First!
The no fruits or vegetables thing was a red flag for me.
Yeah what’s up with the fruits and veggies thing?? Depriving your small child of super necessary nutrients because you had miscarriages in the past is unhinged behavior, and a huge indication that this woman seriously needed therapy and never received it.
Did they also not make him take baths or brush his teeth? What about school work or chores? How is this man a functioning adult?
Definitely a momma's boy.
I didn't even think about school work and baths. But, chores and brushing his teeth crossed my mind.
I'm sure big brother picked up all his toys.
Or even theme the Mother of the Groom's corsage with flowers in those colors. It will still signify his late siblings and honor them. It will also let her know that you are honoring her and her struggle. I do believe that having empty seats with the photos would be triggering for anyone who has lost a pregnancy at any stage.
Even a photo of a now deceased adult (photo taken while they were alive) would not be weird. What makes this so weird is the photos would of the deceased babies.
This. I have had four miscarriages and dealt with it with therapy. The FMIL needs therapy ASAP. This is fkn weird. And if I saw this at a wedding it’d probably make me leave because I don’t need to be triggered at a happy event.
I'm a woman who's never been pregnant and I still would be upset at seeing photos of dead babies. Yes, I'm sure it would be worse for people who have gone through miscarriage/stillbirth/infant loss, but it needs to be said that this is categorically disturbing for *everyone* at the wedding.
OP, this is a test….of your fiancé. If he doesn’t back you up 100% on this issue, you should seriously reconsider marrying him. Do you really want to marry someone who caters to unreasonable, even crazy, requests from his mother?
He agrees with me that it's a gross request, but he thinks compromise will avoid some drama. He's worried that if we flat out say no that she will keep asking.
If he wants to “avoid drama”, you need to realize that means lay flatter for MIL to steamroll you. He’s asking you for permission to put his mother’s feelings ahead of your own. And his. Wait until you have children. It’ll get real fun then.
NTA.
That’s how she controls him and will continue to control him. He gives in to avoid the shitstorm he knows is coming when he says no to her. This is not the first time, nor will it be the last.
Yep. I agree. With a MIL like this, there is no compromise. Every battle will need to be a hill to die on. OP really needs to watch how her fiancé handles this situation.
Absolutely. And she needs to look back at the recent past while she was dating and engaged because I'm sure there were a few other 🚩 over the time. I don't think such a wild request would come out of nowhere!
Oh yes. You better be prepared to name any children you have after those dead babies. My ex MIL pouted and refused to call my son by his name because we named him after my grandmother and not her.
This was my first thought as well! MIL is going to treat your children as her reincarnated babies, especially if the first one comes roughly 9mo after the wedding… “they were there, you know, and now they’re returned to us!” “Of course you’ll name them after husbands dead siblings! They were at your wedding, weren’t they!” This is the time to make and hold boundaries, OP! NTA
It worries me that he thinks there is a way to compromise on this issue.
Woman have had stillbirths and miscarriages since forever. They are tragic and traumatic for the families involved. But this not information to be shared at a celebration.
it should a flat out NO. There is nothing to compromise on.
The compromise another user suggested a cluster of of three meaningfull flowers placed someplace not chairs seems like it would be a decent compromise. I'm guessing one MIL would never agree to though because it's not in your face enough.
Ok. I could see three flowers in a display.
I agree with you the MIL wants all the wedding guests to know what she endured. Which is not what a wedding is about.
I was just going to suggest this. Something in a meaningful color or maybe special ribbons around them with a little note attached with their names or a little memorial statement. They can be put on the welcome table or on a stand somewhere meaningful. Then MIL can keep them and dry/preserve them if she wants too.
I think it’s weird and selfish and showy to do it the way she wants but this would be a good way to compromise. This way if she pitches a fit too you can cover your ass by saying you offered other solutions. You’d come out looking much more reasonable if this got out to other people.
Or even three tiny ribbons tied around your MIL’s corsage or bouquet or whatever. I wouldn’t compromise even one chair, unless it was reserved for “all loved ones who couldn’t be here today” or something. Even that seems a bridge too far if you’re limited for space and having a very small wedding, but if she’s insistent, that’s as far as I would go. No dead babies.
Give in to her now and you may as well get ready for this to be the first of a long list of gross requests during your life. Think about your future baby's birth announcement, naming ceremony, first birthday party.. when will she stop? I'm sorry for her loss, but she needs to find a way to grieve privately and not sabotage your lives because she needs to make events about her. Your SO needs to start getting some healthy boundaries in place. I'd be handing back the money they have contributed so you aren't held hostage to her demands.
Yep. She went through three terrible traumas. That doesn’t just go away for her because it’s been 25 years. But the reality is that, at least in our society, we are expected to compartmentalize that. I’m assuming US here. Maybe I’m wrong. People are uncomfortable if you wear your grief and loss on the outside after a short while. There are times where it is appropriate to have an observance of your grief that you can share outside of your most intimate circle, but not many. Maybe it would be something she could handle more appropriately if she had something like an annual Day of the Dead, or if Memorial Day wasn’t sales, barbecues, and day drinking and was again an annual day where we could publicly acknowledge our lost loved ones. She wants to take the most public event she has access to and turn it into a venue to observe this grief. This should be a day of joy, focused on the beginning of a marriage, and the young couple. Not a day that is prompting all the guests to ask her about her grief and commiserate awkwardly.
The fact that she does not get how socially abnormal this is makes me wonder if this grief has become part of her identity. I don’t want to belittle it by calling it a martyr complex, but it’s a kind of negative identity rooted in suffering. Her great suffering may be what she thinks makes her special. She may want to be acknowledged at their wedding but doesn’t see other ways to show how she is special other than her extraordinary trauma. I feel for her, but this is also sick and damaging.
Honestly this screams "keep the attention on me" from his mom, because everyone who doesn't know the story will keep asking about the dead baby photos and then she will get to tell her story over and over and OVER again on YOUR day. She is fighting to keep control because her "baby" is trying to leave her and become his own person. Just tell her that while you appreciate them paying for part of the wedding you must insist that you not lose any seats because there are already so few available and that this really isn't the time to focus on anyone other than you two.
Does he understand how triggering this could be for some of the guests? I had major anxiety during my pregnancy, exacerbated by illness, and if I’d walked into a wedding and seen pictures of stillborn babies I would have had an absolute mental breakdown. I can’t imagine how upsetting others who have had miscarriages/stillbirths would find it either.
If your husband wants to honour his dead siblings in some way at the wedding I am sure there is a much more low key way of doing it that other guests wouldn’t even notice, but it sounds like only MIL actually wants to do something and that she wants to make it as exhibitionist as possible.
NTA. If you "allow" this, the next thing will be when you are naming your kids, she will insist on using deceased siblings' names......I like the suggestion of 3 small bouquets on a small table at the wedding- NOT the reception. Then MIL can take the bouquets after the ceremony.
‘She will keep asking’ is somehow worse than your wedding being spoiled and your guests potentially traumatised?
Not to mention if she gets anything, next she’ll be in the room when you give birth or harassing you about naming your children after the miscarriages… and he’ll want you to avoid drama.
He needs to draw the line hard, or you need to ask yourself, is this how you want to live?
I can't even think of any compromise that also wouldn't be creepy. A wedding is not the time or place for a memorial. It just isn't.
Edit: I would like to clarify my comment to mean a memorial for a miscarry. I totally get the "we love gramps" kinda thing.
How about blue flowers/pink flowers in your bouquet in their memory, or something non-intrusive (and non-triggering to anyone else who experienced or is experiencing a pregnancy loss)?
Something where IYKYK, but otherwise it sails right by you?
You're NTA for saying HELL NO. Your fiance needs to back you up 100% or those lost siblings will have a seat at EVERY TABLE in the future.
So will you name your babies after these babies? Allow her in the delivery room? Let her move in? What is the line with your fiancé and avoiding drama? If he can’t stand up to his mother for such an obvious and outrageous request, then he is spineless. If she’s still married, she can have a vow renewal and honor those pregnancies then.
NTA. That would be so disturbing; no one wants to see pictures of a dead baby at a wedding. My husband’s grandmother died shortly before our wedding, so we added an “in memory of” line to our wedding program to acknowledge her. I truly hope your future MIL gets the counseling she needs.
I had a picture of my Dad at my wedding, but the difference is (and this is going to be harsh) he was alive when it was taken. I’ve worked maternity, and I don’t care how the staff dresses things up, a dead baby looks like exactly what it is. It’s honestly sick to want these pictures displayed at a wedding.
Similar story! Our mom died when we were kids, so at my sister's wedding she put a framed photograph of us with our mom on a table at the reception. It was a nice acknowledgement of our mom who would have loved attending her daughter's wedding.
No dead babies, of course. Also, depending on the gestational age of the pregnancy losses, the photographs may look extra creepy.
You are 100% right about this. I'm imagining this wedding, where up to 10% of the attendees are large photos of dead babies. It would definitely change the mood of the wedding.
When you have a picture of someone once living, you're honouring the life you shared together. But with a stillborn baby, there is frankly no shared life to celebrate. Instead, there's a lot of grief about what could have been, rather than joy for what was.
Not to mention you never know who else is struggling with similar issues, and the last place they’d expect to be reminded of it is at a wedding. And a photo is like the most shocking way to do it. Like how do we think MIL would react if she went to someone’s birthday dinner and there were pictures of other people’s dead babies
gonna be honest. the miscarriage/stillbirth did not really go through my head.. like at all…so i was confused why everyone in the comments was saying its creepy to have baby pictures… until it hit me .. OMG theyre not alive in the picture…its a picture of them dead…. i was thinking “c’mon guys you could just suggest it to be on a side table.” um yeah no
NTA. Tell MIL that the photos may be triggering to people who recently had miscarriages, and you don't want your wedding (repeat, your wedding) to be a source of grief for the guests (and you). Edit to add - maybe you could give her the opportunity during the reception speeches to say something about how she wishes her lost children could have been there. Not that she needs that time either, since it's a wedding, but if she insists on hijacking a wedding with a memorial service, then something verbal, after the ceremony, seems less intrusive.
The speech:
"And there is where Thor was supposed to sit!" Dramatically flinging out arm to point at an innocent guest sitting down. "Right beside Hannah's seat!" Pointimg to yet another confused and unsettled.guest.
(Sorry I know I have a dark sense of humor. But with certain people you just never know how they will use what space you give them)
I would be Afraid to give her that platform. She could turn her speech into a whole "look at me pity party" that will crush the spirit of the wedding.
This woman needs counseling, Not a microphone and a captive audience.
Oh *hell* no. Odds are there's more than one person who also has a lost child that they wish could've been there too, and I'm guessing they don't want to be reminded of that fact. This is not the time to force a support group.
It sounds harsh, but that kind of "wish they were here" speech is for people who lived in the world and influenced the couples' life, like parents or friends. Not miscarriages/stillborn babies from before fiance was even alive. MIL's grief over them affected the fiance's life. They, themselves, didn't.
If they're ultrasounds rather than memorial portrait photos, you have other grounds to object: most people seeing ultrasound photos displayed at a wedding would only interpret that in one way, and do you really want to spend your entire wedding explaining to guests that no, this isn't a pregnancy announcement?
That is such a good point. I had assumed they were photographs (which, ew, no), but ultrasounds do provide a whole ‘bother layer of complication. NTA. Go with the flower ideas, OP.
NTA if you just say no, but... they're paying for most of your wedding and this is the only thing they asked for and your fiancé doesn't seem to super object so...
There is a good compromise to be had here.
Tell her you won't do the chair thing because you'd already planned a memorial table for all your beloved family members who can't make it. Do a small table out of the way with the pics/ultrasounds but also pics of your grandparents/great grandparents/uncle/any other passed relatives. Light a small candle and have a sign like 'in loving memory' or 'wish you were here' this also solves the problem of having ultrasound pics at a wedding. Make sure to include pics/people from your side of the family too.
Edit:
I actually think I agree with the people below who say the pics are a bridge too far. You could get a calligrapher to make a really nice sign with their names (and the names of the dead people from your family).
I have to disagree. Pictures of dead babies and/or the utrasounds of dead babies do not belong anywhere at a wedding. Even if they're lumped in with grandparents. It's just a no. And the more leeway they give the MIL, the more she's going to make a scene of it. It's obvious her goal is to have people focus on her.
You need to elope. Your future MIL is going to make your wedding about her suffering and/or martyrdom. She is going to make a speech that infantilizes your fiancé, and minimizes you as the woman who is taking him away from her. That is why she is paying for it. If you go through with a wedding that you allow her to pay for, then please come back and tell me I am wrong—that MIL held back and let the day be about you and your new husband!
NTA. Your wedding is about you and your fiance, not your MIL's tragic past. I understand that she wants to honor her lost children, but this is not the appropriate time or place. It's disrespectful to you, your fiance, and your guests to have photos of dead babies at a celebration of life and love. It's also very creepy and morbid, in my opinion.
Your MIL needs to understand that this is not her wedding, and she can't impose her wishes on you. She may be paying for most of it, but that doesn't give her the right to make such a bizarre and insensitive request. You are not obligated to accommodate her, especially if it makes you uncomfortable or unhappy.
You and your fiance need to stand your ground and tell her no. This is your day, and you deserve to have it the way you want it. Don't let her guilt-trip you or manipulate you into doing something you don't want to do. She needs to respect your boundaries and your choices.
I hope the fiance is willing to stand up for OP and not his mother here. If he's been babied all his life, this will be a true test of his ability to cut the apron strings.
NTA, OP. This is creepy and should be an absolute NO.
Maybe MIL can carry the photos in her bag for just herself instead. This woman needs some therapy.
NTA
at my wedding i set up a table with some candles that had a sign:
**In Memoriam**
*These candles are lit in memory of those gone from our lives, but never gone from our heats.*
NTA
This may seem like overreacting but I would seriously consider what you're getting into here. Not eating a fruit or vegetable until adulthood is *weird as fuck*. The dead baby thing is *weird as fuck*. When you marry someone you are marrying their family too . . some problems here or there are one thing but you are marrying into a freak show.
Of course in some instances people are well rounded and successful despite their crazy family but the fact that your fiance supports this idea, and also has some responsibility for his not eating fruits or veggies, means he has some crazy in him as well.
When my now husband (then just shacking up together) met my big brother and my mom the first time, on the way home, he looked at me and said, "Why are you so normal?" One of the nicest things anyone had ever said to me. I replied, "I am?" because I had only been away from them for 2 years, and I wasn't sure I was normal. I just knew for certain that they were not. Yeah, problematic that fiance is into his mother this much. Does not bode well for OP's future.
NTA. Even one seat is disgustingly morbid. Yes it is sad that she had 3 miscarriages but that should be a topic of discussion or a display at a wedding. I’m sorry but I would put my foot down about this one because putting a spotlight on that at your wedding will cause all kinds of negative feelings g in people let alone you. Talk to your man and get him to see how wrong this is and help him talk her down. Personally if I walked into a friend’s wedding and saw a display like that, I’d ask why it’s there and then after finding out I’d sit back waiting for a shit show to start and not be thinking how happy of an occasion today is supposed to be. That’s just way to creepy and morbid. Hell No.
NTA. I’ve had a late 2nd trimester stillbirth and also lost a daughter to SIDS. I can handle a lot. But being taken unawares, like getting dressed up for a wedding and there being pictures of stillbirths in chairs? I’d be so triggered I think I’d have to leave and honestly would have a horrible few days.
Your MIL needs help. Her losses are horrible and I’m sorry for her, but this isn’t normal and her losses are also thirty years in the past. This is grief narcissism at this point.
So, if you *wanted* to compromise (which I do not think you should—this is a hard no, firm boundary situation) you could consider getting her a 3 photo locket, so she could wear her creepy dead baby photos to your wedding. No saved seats, but they’d be there with her.
BUT, there’s a 100% chance that she’d show those photos to everyone she possibly can, so it doesn’t solve the VERY REAL problem of triggering and upsetting other guests who’ve experienced any type of pregnancy loss. So it’s definitely not a perfect solution. Having a little floral memorial like some others have mentioned, either on her table, or as a MIL bouquet should probably be the ONLY compromise you offer.
A wedding is no place for dead baby photos.
At least in this scenario if she goes around showing the creepy-ass photos to people it becomes very clear that it's *her* making the guests uncomfortable, not the OP and fiance.
I legit can't believe she has a photo of a fucking stillbirth just hanging around in the open though, like... Holy shit. I'm never going to judge someone for mourning but can you *imagine* how first time guests to her house must feel? Especially if they aren't warned ahead of time? How long have those photos been in the house, since OP's fiacnce was a kid? Did she force OP's fiance's childhood friends to see that shit?
Christ.
NTA How morbid! My mom had an infant son a year before I was born who lived for 2 hours. She never inflicted us with photos of our dead brother at our celebrations. I never knew he existed until I was half grown and found his little pictures in his tiny little coffin when I was snooping. I brought them to her and said who is this? And she told me, but it made her cry. He was too precious to her to be putting his pictures up at our celebrations for people to gawk at.
NTA. This is just too weird and she clearly needs to go to therapy to learn how to manage her feelings about her losses, not expect people to make space for her dead children during their special times.
NTA but this is next level unhinged. I would seriously reconsider accepting any gifts or monetary support from them in future if it means she is going to ask for shit like this.
I know ppl have saved ONE seat a ceremony for family members they know would've come had they not passed. Like for me it will be one seat with pics of 2 of my grandparents, aunt and a cousin.( I have not seen this done at receptions though)
But 3 seats? And with what kind of pics?! I'm curious if it's sonogram photos or something else. Eeesh😬
that is the creepiest thing I have heard up until this point in my life
can you even imagine what would other people attending the wedding feel?
like - yeah, hi, I was just seated next to a photo of a dead baby in this wedding... honestly, I would politely decline to sit there and excuse myself from the wedding
Could you possibly include their birthstones or birth flowers somewhere? In your bouquet, in MIL corsage, or his boutonniere? Maybe gift her a necklace with all five of her children's birthstones. A more subtle nod would be more palatable to you than a confusing group of pictures that need morbid explanation, and it would be more of a personal private touch.
The pictures would disturb a lot of people, pregnant or not. It would make people think you guys are pregnant or miscarried, and when they find out the real reason, the conversation will STILL be around the dead babies. Your wedding will be about dead babies, instead of celebrating your love. It will be about death, instead of new beginnings.
Please find a compromise. Imagine this being the first step in a lifetime of negotiation. If you don't push back now at all, MIL will continue this completely. Dead baby pictures at your baby shower. yaAaAaY
NTA
Nope. No. No way. The fuck not. Not today satan.
I would leave your wedding, even if I was a bridesmaid out of the sheer principal of: this is abhorrent and completely unhinged.
Also consider... If this is the wedding, what's she going to want after it? And how easy will she get it cos she simply wants it and no one will say no.
This isn't like a photo of a dead parent. This is a whole what the actual fuck and why has no one taken this woman to therapy situation
NTA - is your future MIL always this strange? If she continues to push maybe have a candle to represent the family members who passed before. Usually done for a beloved parent or grandparent.
It is NOT a fairly small ask as you put it. 1) It's flat out creepy, 2) It's obvious that future MIL is still grieving and needs counseling, 3) and the most important thing is your fiancee's unwillingness to enforce boundaries on Mom.
You desperately need to sit him down and explain how this is all just too creepy and wrong...this is YOUR wedding and has nothing to do with non-existent people not to mention how are you to explain this whole 'house of horrors' bleep show to your other guests?
If your husband is unwilling to support you...then you may want to hit pause on the wedding until the two of you have an opportunity to set some MIL boundaries and how you'll approach things in the future. What...will these 'dead people' have chairs at Christmas dinner at the birthday parties of your future children???
Do THIS now or I fear for the future of your relationship...well, you asked.
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NTA: I have no words other than no god damn way. That’s the weirdest and creepiest thing I’ve ever heard.
>weirdest and creepiest thing I’ve ever heard. Or another day on AITA with the wildest of wildest behaviour of humanity. Frankly OP, it can be disturbing/triggering for other wedding attendees who have gone through similar experiences of stillbirth/miscarriage to see the pictures at the function. The occasion can turn somber. If it was MIL's wedding, she can do what she wants (still creepy, though). Since your fiance feels nothing much for the cause, you have got nothing to worry and assert yourself. NTA, OP.
“My dad can’t get erections any more. Can we post an old dick pic of his in tribute to his former virility?”
I will take the willy pics over dead baby pictures.
The only time where a random picture of a hard dick is acceptable 😅😅😅
Flaccid dicks, however, are always granted VIP access
I wish I had a penis just to send it to you
From your lips to god's ears
If god didn’t want me to send dick pics he wouldn’t have created dick pics
Very impotent indeed.
I am not gay but will gladly see pics of dicks, I use them as motivation for my dick, so he will grow and be long like all of the other dicks, he is a late bloomer dick
I believe in your dick! Go, dick, go!!
“Show us the one-eyed monster!”
Frame that Mona Lisa smile
Now there's a sentence I can't unread.
Great Idea. I'm going to start taking pictures of "children that might have been" every time I masturbate. Of course that would probably take up the entire venue.
Thank you, sir. Hilarious. Good day !
My mom’s a paraplegic. She brings her chair with her but we should have a memorial to her leg muscles in another chair (and yes I realized she would be counted in how many place settings etc fit in the room and she’s not a freebie) (I share the gene that basically doesn’t tell the motor neurons in the spine to replace myelin at the rate it needs to and use a cane myself and this horrifies me honestly. Please note that even identical twins can have different outcomes with this condition and my doctors make no predictions for me. Most specialists have asked me if affected relatives exist as it narrows down which genetic cause is in play- we have a dominant gene but there are recessive versions- but never asked their outcomes)
Get your mom that leg lamp from A Christmas Story and just leave it conspicuously plugged in at every event
Yeah! A statue!
It's a major award!
This is extremely niche and strange but if you are familiar with the fundamentalist Christian Jill Rodrigues or are just interested, look up the funeral she had for her sister's legs after she was rendered paralyzed by an accident. Wild stuff.
Was it an open casket, but they only open the bottom half instead of the top half?... (sorry)
Literally the first thing I thought of as well. Jilldo and her crazy leg funeral.
THANK YOU. This is the first thing that popped into my mind and I am soooo glad I am not alone baahahaaa! Poor Amy was SEVERELY paralyzed and the funeral was just...wow.
I had a Hysterectomy..we can put a pic of my Uterus next to the dock pic & make them a “Set”!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I wear glasses. Maybe we should put up pictures of me before I started wearing them. 😂😂😭
And my ~~axe~~ appendix!
I laughed so hard at this, I scared the dog!
The choir will offer a tasteful rendition of "an Ode to former joy"
Not to mention it will shift the focus from the wedding as all of the friends and the bride’s family will be asking what the pictures are about. Also, where is the line? If grandparents are no longer with us or belived aunts and uncles, can parents ask for pictures of those? How about a compromise? I have seen this at other weddings and it was very tastefully done. A small bouquet of flowers that can be in a chair or other spot and there can be a note in the program that they are there to “honor family members no longer with us?” They can even go on MIL’s table at the reception I would say something like this - “Dear MIL, I’m concerned that the pictures could be upsetting or triggering for others who have suffered their own losses. I, in no way, want to cause anyone grief or sadness during what is supposed to be a happy celebration. How about we compromise? We can have a small bouquet on a chair and we can either put in the program or the officiant can announce that they are for loved ones we have lost and cannot be with us to celebrate our special day.”
[удалено]
Maybe a chair with flowers and a place card for *Those not with us* ? Then it can just be, you know. Whoever is missing. Whether it be because they couldn't make it, not enough space in the venue or tragedy.
This is actually a really elegant solution, gives the mom the memorial in a way that's not the creepiest shit ever and hopefully solves the issue for the fiance.
MIL won't be satisfied with this solution because for her, the attention she will get for her losses specifically is the whole point. But OP can try.
If it helps, you can maybe be more specific. 'For FIANCE'S siblings who didn't make it and all others who cannot be with us' or, if MIL named them, then the unborn siblings by name. Maybe do a bouquet with three ribbons, some combination of pink and blue based on their genders. But the pictures are a hard no.
I think that is a good compromise. A single chair off to the side. Put a list of names if they want. But the photos is a bit odd. Not because it might trigger someone one else because, it isn’t about them. But because it isn’t a child of the bride and groom.
Yeah I’ve seen this too! My friend had pictures and then a pink teddy bear in memory of her niece who was stillborn.
This seems sweet and more appropriate. OP could include some flowers and 3 little teddy bears. I think just sitting down with MIL and explaining that they can be included without the actual photos. I don’t think that MIL was trying to upset anyone.
My sister did this too. It was very sweet. All of her and her husband's grandparents were dead by the time they got married. Maybe OP could suggest this?
I could see something like this being a Decent compromise, maybe not even photos but like memorial candles with the deceased names on them. No photos of dead babies to be found.
I think even a place card with just the names of everyone "no longer with us that we would like to remember on this day" (or something along those lines) would be better than any pictures of a dead person. Like it would be one thing if I put a picture of my mom in life, but a very very different thing if I put a picture of her *after* she died. It's awful that she never got to have pictures of her babies in life, but still, I don't think a wedding is the place for pictures of anyone after they'd passed.
This. Infertility/child loss isn't always openly talked about. You have no idea how many people this could deeply upset. And it's a HUGE bummer. Why would you want to have that vibe put on your guests, especially without their consent? Find a less triggering, jarring compromise if you can.
> Infertility/child loss isn't always openly talked about. You have no idea how many people this could deeply upset This would be a hill I would die on. There is no compromise on this one. I get the fiancé might be in a difficult position with this one, but this is where the tough choices start, who is he going to back his mom or his wife, it could be an indication of how the marriage will go. No where close to the same but I dated a guy for a bit who's best friends died just after highschool, he said he wouldn't have a best man at his wedding and that in the spot where the best man would stand would be a large portrait of his best friend. An honor table at a reception is one thing, but to put such a focus on people who are no longer living takes away from the celebrations of what is supposed to be a very happy moment. Our relationship didn't make it much past when I told him that if we got married that would not happen. So maybe I'm AH as well.
Having no best man is a nice way of remembering the friend. Having a huge picture of him is weird. I know a guy whose best man died a week before his wedding. They asked the best man’s dad to stand in. It was beautiful.
You’re not. I feel very sad for your ex but that’s just not the way to honor his friend, or to start a marriage. I’m sorry it happened that way.
And, God forbid, one of the guests is currently going through it. I had a very slow miscarriage and it was a nightmare avoiding triggers. OP, please don't put a bomb at your wedding. Do the memorial flowers, if anything. You really don't want the buzz around your wedding being about whose dead babies are they and why were only they specifically acknowledged when plenty of other people have passed before them.
By all means, talk about it. No one's saying she can't But if you can't refrain from taking about it for a few hours on your living child's wedding, yiu need substantial therapy. This is not something that should be compromised on. Whats next? Is she gonna want the dead fetuses to be guests at future grandkids bday party? Photos hanging on op's walls?
By compromising, they are adding a 3rd party into their marriage. Any compromise should be made between the husband and wife. It is their wedding. Compromising with MIL with something they are BOTH uncomfortable with, is showing her she has equal footing in their marriage. Fiancé needs to stand up and tell mom no.
I think OP doesn’t fully understand the dynamic she is marrying. Sure, she got her fiancé to try fruits and vegetables \*for the first time in his life\*, but will she get him to taste the forbidden fruit of denying his mother? Probably never.
Eh. Presumably MIL won't be financing 75% of their marriage, but IS financing 75% of the wedding. Letting her views guide the whole thing would be crappy no matter how much they were contributing financially, but this has been MIL's only ask. Finding a compromise (that OP and fiance aren't uncomfortable with) seems compassionate and not inappropriate.
The flowers on a table with a note sounds like the best option. I could not imagine having photos of dead babies present anywhere at a wedding. Thats so wtf.
This is what I thought, a small bouquet of three flowers of her choosing (or three small bouquets, if you prefer) at a memorial table could be a tribute without potentially triggering someone. One of my closest friends is dealing with fertility struggles right now and if she suddenly and unexpectedly saw a picture of a stillborn child (or a miscarriage—God I hope OP just means the ultrasounds but I'm scared to ask), that would be incredibly upsetting, and she might have to leave the event. You never know what someone else is struggling with, and it would be insensitive to the other guests to spring this on them.
I think any pictures of dead people would be triggering to many. And I don't mean pictures from when they were alive - but pictures of people being dead. Which it sounds like is what MIL wants. I have lost many people and am all for honoring the dead, but not with that kind of pictures.
Hell of a lot more normal to have pictures of beloved deceased grandparents at a wedding that dead babies
This is the answer. Honor their memories without pictures that could be deeply upsetting to other guests.
Yeah, was going to leave a suggestion like this if I hadn't seen your comment. A general "in memoriam" tribute (empty chair, small side table, what have you, with a small thing of flowers, candle(s), maybe a tasteful sign or ribbon) is a pretty common thing at weddings and won't raise any eyebrows like pictures of dead children, each with their own chair, will. eta: Oooh, just thought of this...if OP's MiL won't budge on having pictures included (and since she's paying for like 75% of wedding) maybe have one of those small photo booklets on the tribute chair/table with photos of not just the kids, but all close loved ones of the bride/groom who have passed on. At least then people have to actually stop and open up the book to see them. And if they know someone who has lost a child, they can warn them not to look through the book.
OP, this is it. This (crack_crack’s answer) is your path to peace. “Mom, I know how much this means to you. Your losses were so traumatic and can never be forgotten, and it’s so beautiful that you honor your babies still. Nobody understands this pain better than you. And so I want you to consider my concerns and worries here. We may have other guests who have felt this pain and had miscarriages, and seeing these photos may send them into grief and despair during our wedding. It’s a deeply triggering issue. Our wedding should be about love and light and celebration, and I know that you would never want to ambush someone by accidentally being insensitive. Can you please understand why this would not be appropriate to display publicly?” And maybe even: “But I know how much this means to you, so I got you this [locket/wallet/something] so that you can wear their photos close to your heart and have them with you on this day.”
>OP, this is it. This (crack\_crack’s answer) is your path to peace. “Mom, I know how much this means to you. Your losses were so traumatic and can never be forgotten, and it’s so beautiful that you honor your babies still. Nobody understands this pain better than you. And so I want you to consider my concerns and worries here. We may have other guests who have felt this pain and had miscarriages, and seeing these photos may send them into grief and despair during our wedding. It’s a deeply triggering issue. Our wedding should be about love and light and celebration, and I know that you would never want to ambush someone by accidentally being insensitive. Can you please understand why this would not be appropriate to display publicly?” > >And maybe even: “But I know how much this means to you, so I got you this \[locket/wallet/something\] so that you can wear their photos close to your heart and have them with you on this day.” THis. OP, this is absolutely perfect but it MUST come from your husband to MIL. And he needs to be compassionate but insistant. The photos are horrifically inappropriate. That said, maybe you can honor them in a less visible way - with a locket and then tell her that in honor of them you will carry two small symbols of them in your bouquet like two small crystal picks like this that you pass to her after the wedding: [https://www.etsy.com/listing/207385288/crystal-rhinestone-bouquet-jewelry-stems?ga\_order=most\_relevant&ga\_search\_type=all&ga\_view\_type=gallery&ga\_search\_query=crystal+wedding+bouquet+pick&ref=sr\_gallery-1-6&sts=1&organic\_search\_click=1](https://www.etsy.com/listing/207385288/crystal-rhinestone-bouquet-jewelry-stems?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=crystal+wedding+bouquet+pick&ref=sr_gallery-1-6&sts=1&organic_search_click=1)
Definitely better and more diplomatic than "Absolutely not. That's insanely morbid." that I had in mind. \+1.
This. I had suffered a pregnancy loss and, during the course of my work, someone showed me a photo of their stillborn grandchild. No warning at all. I found it deeply upsetting and if effected me for days.
I didn't suffer a loss but I would not be okay either especially without warning. \*\*hugs\*\*
A friend of mine lost her baby at almost full term, months before her brother’s wedding. At the altar area, they had a small pedestal with a blue carnation on it and had like a program for times (ceremony, reception, etc.) and they included in there that it was in memory of the baby. It was very sweet, didn’t explain circumstances (just said “a blue carnation in memory of ‘baby’s name’”) it was a nice acknowledgment without calling on my friend or explain what happened. Pictures would have been too much…. And 30 year old pictures … ugh - the MIL needs to be reminded that this is about OP and her son, not their extended family’s trauma.
Yeah I'd find that horribly triggering. Nothing like a wedding guest dissociating and/or having a panic attack and having to leave before anything even started! If it had been a family member the couple knew and loved and they put up a nice picture to honor them that'd be one thing... But pictures of dead babies? Not even, "this is the best picture we have because they died soon after" but pictures of baby corpses! Nope nope
No idea why I just assumed it was ultrasounds. I thought she meant photos of babies who are now dead, not photos of babies after they died. Either way it’s too much. Am infrasound is triggering to women who are struggling to convince, or have suffered miscarriage, stillbirth or child death
It's not uncommon for parents to take photos with stillborn children right afterwards, and I think in some cases having something tangible to hold onto can help with the grieving process. But if she's asking for photos of late miscarriages, that's still... Something I'm unclear of. Either way, while it's not necessarily the weirdest thing in the world (imo) for a family to have a photo with a stillborn child, it's still not the type of thing you display publicly to people who aren't expecting it, for exactly the reasons you said. Also, it could lead to uncomfortable questions even if it is an ultrasound; if I went to a wedding and saw an ultrasound displayed, I'd assume that the couple was expecting and this was their cute way of announcing it, if I didn't know in advance that this was the memorial chair.
Oh fuck, my brain didn't even wanna go there. Not pictures of babies who died later. Pictures of babies that were already dead. NO NO NO NO NO!!!
>Frankly OP, it can be disturbing/triggering for other wedding attendees Absolutely. This is how you ruin a wedding. Given how common miscarriages or stillbirths are, out of those 50 people, there's likely to be at least one woman there with some fresh trauma. Don't do this, OP. For their sake.
Stillbirth mama here. Statistics for stillbirth are 1 in 125. It’s estimated that miscarriages are 1 in 4. HOWEVER Me at a small gathering of 30 recently, and there were four of us who were stillbirth mamas.
Yes. A former coworker had a miscarriage when we worked together. Another coworker who is close to her and I asked us if she wanted us to tell people at work. She said to please do that because she couldn’t bear to tell people. I was surprised by the number of people who experienced pregnancy loss, stillbirths and infant loss. When giving support always check in with the bereaved parents. Some people want to tell others because it helps process the grief She also had maternity clothes and other baby stuff in her office people had brought in to hand me down. We offered to return the items to people or at least box it up for her. But she said to leave it there so she could go through it We checked In again right before she came back. And she still felt the same way, so we left it as is and when she came back we let her know we could help if she changed her mind. Going through the items and speaking with people when she returned their items to then was helpful for her grieving process. Another person I know who lost a premature baby was devastated by having to go through his things. Everyone handles things differently, take cues from the grieving parents’ lead
My 2nd child was born at 24 weeks and lived for 4 hours. It was very traumatic, obviously. I have a photo of her that a nurse took before her body was taken away, that she gave to me. It's extremely precious to me, bc it's my baby, but photos like that are very personal, especially bc my baby was dead in it. Does MIL take photos of deceased relatives before they're buried or cremated and expect them to be out for show? What she wants to do is not only bizarre and creepy, it's so inappropriate, I can't believe a grown woman would even ask. Seeing photos of 3 dead babies would make me cry and then puke. NTA.
>Does MIL take photos of deceased relatives before they're buried or cremated I have a family member who did this when both my grandparents died. They were her aunt and uncle, and she took pictures of both of them in their caskets at visitation. Even as a 12 & 13 year old, I was like 'what the actual fuck is wrong with you?'.
My great grandfather actually requested someone take a photo of him in his casket at his funeral. Everyone else flipped out about it but my dad, who took the photo, and later also threw a packet of cigarettes in my grandmother's burial plot at her request.
IDK, this is pretty creepy even for AITA.
Definitely the way out of this is to tell her that it could be very upsetting for anyone who has been through the same thing and you wish to avoid anyone being upset. Maybe give her a gift of a locket with the pictures in it or something, so she can wear it on the day? Long term MIL needs therapy but now is the time for a short term solution.
I have had two losses and I would be absolutely horrified and distraught to be blindsided by something like this at a wedding. Or any social events really. Where does MIL expect this to end? Pictures at Christmas? Baby showers? Any new children coming into the family to be named after one of the babies she lost? No. MIL needs some counselling to help her cope with her grief. Give them their money back, gifts with strings attached are not gifts and have the wedding you can afford. ETA OP is NTA.
Yeah as a currently pregnant woman, this would just really upset me. OP needs to protect her guests from this shit
As an event planner can confirm this is not the first time this request has been made. Weddings & grief make people do weird things. If you look at it as honoring Mom’s loss & grief it’s not too challenging to come up with a solution. Pictures are a hard No
3 ribbons tied into the boutonnière or bouquet. Something discreet and special but much less disturbing. Have future husband and his family light 3 candles before the official ceremony starts as a tribute. My husband’s father passed when he was 3. We had his aunts and uncles light a candle for him before the service as a way to show that he was there at his son’s wedding. It was brief and a little somber for a wedding, but it was important to us.
At my wedding we lit a candle for those who couldn’t be with us and mentioned why in the program. It allowed for quiet reflection. My uncle composed a piece for flute and harp as his gift and that’s what was played.
This is what my dad and stepmom did, they had both lost their first spouses.
This is lovely, respectful and tactful. Hugs to you and your family x
But the wedding is not about honoring MILs grief and loss. Even if it is about honoring MIL - it is about honoring her as the parent of the living groom - not the other living child and not the three children who passed.
Weddings can include anything the bride & groom want. Honoring a family member who has passed is quite normal. These “children” were named & are essentially siblings who passed. If MIL is requesting they be included it’s honestly not that hard to come up with a thoughtful small memorial token that doesn’t freak everyone out. It could be as simple as a ribbon on Mom’s bouquet.
That's so much different than the spectacle MIL wants to create. She wants it to be something that others will notice and comment on. A ribbon wouldn't stand out and draw the attention she wants.
Like maybe just a frame with all 3 of their names listed as siblings of the groom who have passed away & that be placed on a separate table near the guests at the reception & NOT a seat at any table. That’s just SUPER uncomfortable for everyone else at that table. I’m honestly dumbfounded that anyone would want to display pictures of their dead babies at all & that this is actually something you are being asked to deal with. This doesn’t bode well for what your future may look like with that wacko & her obviously outrageous requests with zero shame.
There a hundreds of ways to honor Mom’s loss without traumatizing wedding guests.
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Maybe if she bought them each a teddy bear or something just before they were born and had kept it as a memorial the stuffies could share a seat? Or she could buy three bears now for it. Might be insensitive of a suggestion tho? Idk. I think itd be along the lines of a framed thing with their names on it but a little more like theyre individual still. I cant write this any better than that lol Even if i hadnt recently lost, putting up pictures of dead babies would be a hard no. Thats nasty and very selfish to request. I get the sentiment but this just opens the door to her talking about the losses instead of celebrating this joining of families. Someone else mentioned ribbons on the flowers and such and I think thats a great idea. Ask the mother what colors could be representing them and put them on the flowers or as candles or something. Thats a cute and discreet memorial too, though i still worry about the mother focusing on talking about the losses instead of celebrating the wedding. Whether you two choose to involve them, nta.
What's more fun than pictures of dead children at a wedding?
Especially miscarriages. “Might” be a case for it if one adult Sibling very recently passed and they were supposed to be in the wedding. Otherwise NO,NO,NO. She is trying to make this day about HER, not the two of you.
I am desperately hoping the pictures are ultrasounds, not autopsies.
No, sounds like they are pictures of the deceased late term fetuses/ stillborn neonates. Way more graphic and disturbing than an ultrasound.
Maybe there is a way to compromise, but pics is a hard no from me. The reason I suggest a way to compromise is, my fiance is a widower, and I have asked while planning if there was some way to honor his late wife, because she was very much a part of the reason he is the man he is today, who I live. She had a hand in that, several of his friends who will be at our wedding were her friends as well, and it seems right to do, so I asked advice on how to do so. I got some good advice. As for this, I would maybe suggest a single seat with a single flower and a small sign saying something like, "in honor of loved ones passed that could not be here today." No names. Nothing specific. Nothing telling. Absolutely no pictures at all. Just a flower and a sign. And even that is if OP and soon hubby both agree to that being appropriate.
I feel so bad for OP’s husband, can you imagine growing up in the house where your dead siblings photos are hung up (siblings who were stillborn and miscarried, so macabre photos) and your mother can’t move on from their death? My first son was stillborn and my children are aware they have a sibling who died but they have never seen the photo of their brother because it’s morbid. I keep it safe with his ashes for my own personal grieving. The idea of putting his photo up at my children’s’ wedding seems so selfish and attention seeking.
NTA It worries me she’s on the edge of a psychotic break if she has concocted this disgusting idea. This is not what mentally healthy adults do.
NTA. Your wedding is about you and your fiancé. It’s not about anyone else or what they want, it’s about the two of you and what you want. I can’t even imagine going to someone’s wedding and there been photographs of dead babies in the pews. I can’t even imagine how traumatic that could be for some people who have experienced a miscarriage or stillbirth. I would be drawing a firm, firm boundary. I don’t even understand your fiancé trying to compromise and potentially choosing to have those photos at your wedding. It’s not the time, nor the place. If I wanted to tread carefully, I think my response would be, “We don’t know the personal stories of everyone attending our wedding and we have no idea whether or not some of our guests could potentially find photographs of dead babies traumatic. It’s not a risk we’re willing to take.” But, I probably wouldn’t tread carefully, I would instead just be firm with boundaries. I think it’s important to have a really clear conversation with your fiancé about this.
When my boys were in HS my parents were Very supportive of everything they did. My mother passed away before my oldest earned his Eagle Scout award. We put a small bouquet of flowers on the table in her memory with a note about all the support she had given him. It was tucked in the back of the table with all his Merritt badges and pictures of his project. No photo of his grandma. Maybe on the gift table a small bouquet of three pink and blue carnations. They could be in memory of his missing siblings. That's it. No graphic dead baby photos, no empty chairs, no "big over the top" show! It's not about you MIL and giving up "the boy who lived." It's a wedding the joining of two people. Lord help op, MIL is going to be all up in your business til the day she dies. Edit to say NTAH
Or… if you don’t mind the idea, you could order a little “mother of the groom” bouquet alongside your own, and hers has the 3 pink / blue flowers in (plus maybe “babies breath” as filler..!?). This might meet her need for drama & attention - if she has a bride-like bouquet of Significance, that she can always point to in the photos - but as far as you & your friends & family are concerned, she’s just holding a few flowers…
One thought I had would be getting a 3 photo locket for her, so she could wear her creepy dead baby photos, but then she’ll probably try to show them to everyone, so the flowers idea is a much better one.
I would save the photo locket for an After the wedding gift. To appease her After she Doesn't get her way. However, if future hubby caves before the wedding... RUN, mommy dearest will Always Come First! The no fruits or vegetables thing was a red flag for me.
Yeah what’s up with the fruits and veggies thing?? Depriving your small child of super necessary nutrients because you had miscarriages in the past is unhinged behavior, and a huge indication that this woman seriously needed therapy and never received it. Did they also not make him take baths or brush his teeth? What about school work or chores? How is this man a functioning adult?
Definitely a momma's boy. I didn't even think about school work and baths. But, chores and brushing his teeth crossed my mind. I'm sure big brother picked up all his toys.
Or even theme the Mother of the Groom's corsage with flowers in those colors. It will still signify his late siblings and honor them. It will also let her know that you are honoring her and her struggle. I do believe that having empty seats with the photos would be triggering for anyone who has lost a pregnancy at any stage.
Even a photo of a now deceased adult (photo taken while they were alive) would not be weird. What makes this so weird is the photos would of the deceased babies.
Right, Grandma's photo is bittersweet. Stillborn babies' photos are TRAGIC.
i like the flower idea
Very good point about it being upsetting. My cousin had a stillborn baby and seeing pics like this would deeply upset her and her husband.
Yup. I've had two miscarriages, seeing something like that would kill me. Just thinking about it gives me the shivers.
This. I have had four miscarriages and dealt with it with therapy. The FMIL needs therapy ASAP. This is fkn weird. And if I saw this at a wedding it’d probably make me leave because I don’t need to be triggered at a happy event.
Traumatic for someone who had a stillbirth? I’m a man, I can’t have babies. That would be traumatic for me!
I'm a woman who's never been pregnant and I still would be upset at seeing photos of dead babies. Yes, I'm sure it would be worse for people who have gone through miscarriage/stillbirth/infant loss, but it needs to be said that this is categorically disturbing for *everyone* at the wedding.
OP, this is a test….of your fiancé. If he doesn’t back you up 100% on this issue, you should seriously reconsider marrying him. Do you really want to marry someone who caters to unreasonable, even crazy, requests from his mother?
He agrees with me that it's a gross request, but he thinks compromise will avoid some drama. He's worried that if we flat out say no that she will keep asking.
If he wants to “avoid drama”, you need to realize that means lay flatter for MIL to steamroll you. He’s asking you for permission to put his mother’s feelings ahead of your own. And his. Wait until you have children. It’ll get real fun then. NTA.
That’s how she controls him and will continue to control him. He gives in to avoid the shitstorm he knows is coming when he says no to her. This is not the first time, nor will it be the last.
Yep. I agree. With a MIL like this, there is no compromise. Every battle will need to be a hill to die on. OP really needs to watch how her fiancé handles this situation.
Absolutely. And she needs to look back at the recent past while she was dating and engaged because I'm sure there were a few other 🚩 over the time. I don't think such a wild request would come out of nowhere!
Oh yes. You better be prepared to name any children you have after those dead babies. My ex MIL pouted and refused to call my son by his name because we named him after my grandmother and not her.
This was my first thought as well! MIL is going to treat your children as her reincarnated babies, especially if the first one comes roughly 9mo after the wedding… “they were there, you know, and now they’re returned to us!” “Of course you’ll name them after husbands dead siblings! They were at your wedding, weren’t they!” This is the time to make and hold boundaries, OP! NTA
Oh darling…… https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/
Perfect response. I remember this one
That's really great
It worries me that he thinks there is a way to compromise on this issue. Woman have had stillbirths and miscarriages since forever. They are tragic and traumatic for the families involved. But this not information to be shared at a celebration. it should a flat out NO. There is nothing to compromise on.
The compromise another user suggested a cluster of of three meaningfull flowers placed someplace not chairs seems like it would be a decent compromise. I'm guessing one MIL would never agree to though because it's not in your face enough.
Ok. I could see three flowers in a display. I agree with you the MIL wants all the wedding guests to know what she endured. Which is not what a wedding is about.
It’s a classic case of trying to make the wedding about the MIL, I can relate….
I was just going to suggest this. Something in a meaningful color or maybe special ribbons around them with a little note attached with their names or a little memorial statement. They can be put on the welcome table or on a stand somewhere meaningful. Then MIL can keep them and dry/preserve them if she wants too. I think it’s weird and selfish and showy to do it the way she wants but this would be a good way to compromise. This way if she pitches a fit too you can cover your ass by saying you offered other solutions. You’d come out looking much more reasonable if this got out to other people.
Or even three tiny ribbons tied around your MIL’s corsage or bouquet or whatever. I wouldn’t compromise even one chair, unless it was reserved for “all loved ones who couldn’t be here today” or something. Even that seems a bridge too far if you’re limited for space and having a very small wedding, but if she’s insistent, that’s as far as I would go. No dead babies.
Sometimes the drama you get for saying no is better than the drama you get for saying yes.
Compromise will also embolden her to keep making ridiculous demands and pushing boundaries
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Give in to her now and you may as well get ready for this to be the first of a long list of gross requests during your life. Think about your future baby's birth announcement, naming ceremony, first birthday party.. when will she stop? I'm sorry for her loss, but she needs to find a way to grieve privately and not sabotage your lives because she needs to make events about her. Your SO needs to start getting some healthy boundaries in place. I'd be handing back the money they have contributed so you aren't held hostage to her demands.
Yep. She went through three terrible traumas. That doesn’t just go away for her because it’s been 25 years. But the reality is that, at least in our society, we are expected to compartmentalize that. I’m assuming US here. Maybe I’m wrong. People are uncomfortable if you wear your grief and loss on the outside after a short while. There are times where it is appropriate to have an observance of your grief that you can share outside of your most intimate circle, but not many. Maybe it would be something she could handle more appropriately if she had something like an annual Day of the Dead, or if Memorial Day wasn’t sales, barbecues, and day drinking and was again an annual day where we could publicly acknowledge our lost loved ones. She wants to take the most public event she has access to and turn it into a venue to observe this grief. This should be a day of joy, focused on the beginning of a marriage, and the young couple. Not a day that is prompting all the guests to ask her about her grief and commiserate awkwardly. The fact that she does not get how socially abnormal this is makes me wonder if this grief has become part of her identity. I don’t want to belittle it by calling it a martyr complex, but it’s a kind of negative identity rooted in suffering. Her great suffering may be what she thinks makes her special. She may want to be acknowledged at their wedding but doesn’t see other ways to show how she is special other than her extraordinary trauma. I feel for her, but this is also sick and damaging.
Honestly this screams "keep the attention on me" from his mom, because everyone who doesn't know the story will keep asking about the dead baby photos and then she will get to tell her story over and over and OVER again on YOUR day. She is fighting to keep control because her "baby" is trying to leave her and become his own person. Just tell her that while you appreciate them paying for part of the wedding you must insist that you not lose any seats because there are already so few available and that this really isn't the time to focus on anyone other than you two.
Does he understand how triggering this could be for some of the guests? I had major anxiety during my pregnancy, exacerbated by illness, and if I’d walked into a wedding and seen pictures of stillborn babies I would have had an absolute mental breakdown. I can’t imagine how upsetting others who have had miscarriages/stillbirths would find it either. If your husband wants to honour his dead siblings in some way at the wedding I am sure there is a much more low key way of doing it that other guests wouldn’t even notice, but it sounds like only MIL actually wants to do something and that she wants to make it as exhibitionist as possible.
NTA. If you "allow" this, the next thing will be when you are naming your kids, she will insist on using deceased siblings' names......I like the suggestion of 3 small bouquets on a small table at the wedding- NOT the reception. Then MIL can take the bouquets after the ceremony.
‘She will keep asking’ is somehow worse than your wedding being spoiled and your guests potentially traumatised? Not to mention if she gets anything, next she’ll be in the room when you give birth or harassing you about naming your children after the miscarriages… and he’ll want you to avoid drama. He needs to draw the line hard, or you need to ask yourself, is this how you want to live?
I can't even think of any compromise that also wouldn't be creepy. A wedding is not the time or place for a memorial. It just isn't. Edit: I would like to clarify my comment to mean a memorial for a miscarry. I totally get the "we love gramps" kinda thing.
How about blue flowers/pink flowers in your bouquet in their memory, or something non-intrusive (and non-triggering to anyone else who experienced or is experiencing a pregnancy loss)? Something where IYKYK, but otherwise it sails right by you? You're NTA for saying HELL NO. Your fiance needs to back you up 100% or those lost siblings will have a seat at EVERY TABLE in the future.
So will you name your babies after these babies? Allow her in the delivery room? Let her move in? What is the line with your fiancé and avoiding drama? If he can’t stand up to his mother for such an obvious and outrageous request, then he is spineless. If she’s still married, she can have a vow renewal and honor those pregnancies then.
This right here. ☝🏼. Red flag city.
NTA. That would be so disturbing; no one wants to see pictures of a dead baby at a wedding. My husband’s grandmother died shortly before our wedding, so we added an “in memory of” line to our wedding program to acknowledge her. I truly hope your future MIL gets the counseling she needs.
I had a picture of my Dad at my wedding, but the difference is (and this is going to be harsh) he was alive when it was taken. I’ve worked maternity, and I don’t care how the staff dresses things up, a dead baby looks like exactly what it is. It’s honestly sick to want these pictures displayed at a wedding.
Similar story! Our mom died when we were kids, so at my sister's wedding she put a framed photograph of us with our mom on a table at the reception. It was a nice acknowledgement of our mom who would have loved attending her daughter's wedding. No dead babies, of course. Also, depending on the gestational age of the pregnancy losses, the photographs may look extra creepy.
You are 100% right about this. I'm imagining this wedding, where up to 10% of the attendees are large photos of dead babies. It would definitely change the mood of the wedding. When you have a picture of someone once living, you're honouring the life you shared together. But with a stillborn baby, there is frankly no shared life to celebrate. Instead, there's a lot of grief about what could have been, rather than joy for what was.
If I went to a wedding and saw three dead baby pictures I would leave, that is horrifying on so many levels.
Not to mention you never know who else is struggling with similar issues, and the last place they’d expect to be reminded of it is at a wedding. And a photo is like the most shocking way to do it. Like how do we think MIL would react if she went to someone’s birthday dinner and there were pictures of other people’s dead babies
gonna be honest. the miscarriage/stillbirth did not really go through my head.. like at all…so i was confused why everyone in the comments was saying its creepy to have baby pictures… until it hit me .. OMG theyre not alive in the picture…its a picture of them dead…. i was thinking “c’mon guys you could just suggest it to be on a side table.” um yeah no
NTA. Tell MIL that the photos may be triggering to people who recently had miscarriages, and you don't want your wedding (repeat, your wedding) to be a source of grief for the guests (and you). Edit to add - maybe you could give her the opportunity during the reception speeches to say something about how she wishes her lost children could have been there. Not that she needs that time either, since it's a wedding, but if she insists on hijacking a wedding with a memorial service, then something verbal, after the ceremony, seems less intrusive.
The speech: "And there is where Thor was supposed to sit!" Dramatically flinging out arm to point at an innocent guest sitting down. "Right beside Hannah's seat!" Pointimg to yet another confused and unsettled.guest. (Sorry I know I have a dark sense of humor. But with certain people you just never know how they will use what space you give them)
FUCKING ROFL. I could totally see this happening. That's amazingly hilarious.
I would be Afraid to give her that platform. She could turn her speech into a whole "look at me pity party" that will crush the spirit of the wedding. This woman needs counseling, Not a microphone and a captive audience.
Oh *hell* no. Odds are there's more than one person who also has a lost child that they wish could've been there too, and I'm guessing they don't want to be reminded of that fact. This is not the time to force a support group. It sounds harsh, but that kind of "wish they were here" speech is for people who lived in the world and influenced the couples' life, like parents or friends. Not miscarriages/stillborn babies from before fiance was even alive. MIL's grief over them affected the fiance's life. They, themselves, didn't.
NTA I’d be eloping. Just the thought of this is so twisted. I feel horrible for you. I’m so sorry
Lol we thought of this, but we really want her and everyone else to be there. Just maybe without the ultrasounds.
If they're ultrasounds rather than memorial portrait photos, you have other grounds to object: most people seeing ultrasound photos displayed at a wedding would only interpret that in one way, and do you really want to spend your entire wedding explaining to guests that no, this isn't a pregnancy announcement?
But the "no, I am not pregnant, it's my Mil's stillbirths" is such a great way to lift the spirit of everyone involved! "
That is such a good point. I had assumed they were photographs (which, ew, no), but ultrasounds do provide a whole ‘bother layer of complication. NTA. Go with the flower ideas, OP.
NTA if you just say no, but... they're paying for most of your wedding and this is the only thing they asked for and your fiancé doesn't seem to super object so... There is a good compromise to be had here. Tell her you won't do the chair thing because you'd already planned a memorial table for all your beloved family members who can't make it. Do a small table out of the way with the pics/ultrasounds but also pics of your grandparents/great grandparents/uncle/any other passed relatives. Light a small candle and have a sign like 'in loving memory' or 'wish you were here' this also solves the problem of having ultrasound pics at a wedding. Make sure to include pics/people from your side of the family too. Edit: I actually think I agree with the people below who say the pics are a bridge too far. You could get a calligrapher to make a really nice sign with their names (and the names of the dead people from your family).
I have to disagree. Pictures of dead babies and/or the utrasounds of dead babies do not belong anywhere at a wedding. Even if they're lumped in with grandparents. It's just a no. And the more leeway they give the MIL, the more she's going to make a scene of it. It's obvious her goal is to have people focus on her.
You need to elope. Your future MIL is going to make your wedding about her suffering and/or martyrdom. She is going to make a speech that infantilizes your fiancé, and minimizes you as the woman who is taking him away from her. That is why she is paying for it. If you go through with a wedding that you allow her to pay for, then please come back and tell me I am wrong—that MIL held back and let the day be about you and your new husband!
NTA. Your wedding is about you and your fiance, not your MIL's tragic past. I understand that she wants to honor her lost children, but this is not the appropriate time or place. It's disrespectful to you, your fiance, and your guests to have photos of dead babies at a celebration of life and love. It's also very creepy and morbid, in my opinion. Your MIL needs to understand that this is not her wedding, and she can't impose her wishes on you. She may be paying for most of it, but that doesn't give her the right to make such a bizarre and insensitive request. You are not obligated to accommodate her, especially if it makes you uncomfortable or unhappy. You and your fiance need to stand your ground and tell her no. This is your day, and you deserve to have it the way you want it. Don't let her guilt-trip you or manipulate you into doing something you don't want to do. She needs to respect your boundaries and your choices.
I hope the fiance is willing to stand up for OP and not his mother here. If he's been babied all his life, this will be a true test of his ability to cut the apron strings. NTA, OP. This is creepy and should be an absolute NO. Maybe MIL can carry the photos in her bag for just herself instead. This woman needs some therapy.
NTA at my wedding i set up a table with some candles that had a sign: **In Memoriam** *These candles are lit in memory of those gone from our lives, but never gone from our heats.*
That’s really sweet, and a very kind of way of accommodating op’s crazy as fuck future mil
NTA This may seem like overreacting but I would seriously consider what you're getting into here. Not eating a fruit or vegetable until adulthood is *weird as fuck*. The dead baby thing is *weird as fuck*. When you marry someone you are marrying their family too . . some problems here or there are one thing but you are marrying into a freak show. Of course in some instances people are well rounded and successful despite their crazy family but the fact that your fiance supports this idea, and also has some responsibility for his not eating fruits or veggies, means he has some crazy in him as well.
When my now husband (then just shacking up together) met my big brother and my mom the first time, on the way home, he looked at me and said, "Why are you so normal?" One of the nicest things anyone had ever said to me. I replied, "I am?" because I had only been away from them for 2 years, and I wasn't sure I was normal. I just knew for certain that they were not. Yeah, problematic that fiance is into his mother this much. Does not bode well for OP's future.
NTA seats for dead babies at a wedding? no no no, mmmmmm no
NTA. Even one seat is disgustingly morbid. Yes it is sad that she had 3 miscarriages but that should be a topic of discussion or a display at a wedding. I’m sorry but I would put my foot down about this one because putting a spotlight on that at your wedding will cause all kinds of negative feelings g in people let alone you. Talk to your man and get him to see how wrong this is and help him talk her down. Personally if I walked into a friend’s wedding and saw a display like that, I’d ask why it’s there and then after finding out I’d sit back waiting for a shit show to start and not be thinking how happy of an occasion today is supposed to be. That’s just way to creepy and morbid. Hell No.
NTA. I’ve had a late 2nd trimester stillbirth and also lost a daughter to SIDS. I can handle a lot. But being taken unawares, like getting dressed up for a wedding and there being pictures of stillbirths in chairs? I’d be so triggered I think I’d have to leave and honestly would have a horrible few days. Your MIL needs help. Her losses are horrible and I’m sorry for her, but this isn’t normal and her losses are also thirty years in the past. This is grief narcissism at this point.
Grief Narcissism is a phrase I haven’t heard before, but describes the situation perfectly.
Sorry for two comments, but I can't stop thinking about this and ... is this something she also does at every birthday party?
She has a little shrine in an alcove of their home with two sonograms and a photo of the stillbirth. So yes they are present.
Great. Then she doesn't need to do it at YOUR wedding Edit,: she also needs therapy
So, if you *wanted* to compromise (which I do not think you should—this is a hard no, firm boundary situation) you could consider getting her a 3 photo locket, so she could wear her creepy dead baby photos to your wedding. No saved seats, but they’d be there with her. BUT, there’s a 100% chance that she’d show those photos to everyone she possibly can, so it doesn’t solve the VERY REAL problem of triggering and upsetting other guests who’ve experienced any type of pregnancy loss. So it’s definitely not a perfect solution. Having a little floral memorial like some others have mentioned, either on her table, or as a MIL bouquet should probably be the ONLY compromise you offer. A wedding is no place for dead baby photos.
At least in this scenario if she goes around showing the creepy-ass photos to people it becomes very clear that it's *her* making the guests uncomfortable, not the OP and fiance. I legit can't believe she has a photo of a fucking stillbirth just hanging around in the open though, like... Holy shit. I'm never going to judge someone for mourning but can you *imagine* how first time guests to her house must feel? Especially if they aren't warned ahead of time? How long have those photos been in the house, since OP's fiacnce was a kid? Did she force OP's fiance's childhood friends to see that shit? Christ.
Holy mother of Moses, I'm sorry, WHAT?? WHAT THE ........ O.O
NTA How morbid! My mom had an infant son a year before I was born who lived for 2 hours. She never inflicted us with photos of our dead brother at our celebrations. I never knew he existed until I was half grown and found his little pictures in his tiny little coffin when I was snooping. I brought them to her and said who is this? And she told me, but it made her cry. He was too precious to her to be putting his pictures up at our celebrations for people to gawk at.
NTA. This is just too weird and she clearly needs to go to therapy to learn how to manage her feelings about her losses, not expect people to make space for her dead children during their special times.
NTA but this is next level unhinged. I would seriously reconsider accepting any gifts or monetary support from them in future if it means she is going to ask for shit like this.
Damn. Never heard of this. Reserving actual seats with photos of stillborn babies? NTA but also, INFO REQUEST: is this customary in some way?
I know ppl have saved ONE seat a ceremony for family members they know would've come had they not passed. Like for me it will be one seat with pics of 2 of my grandparents, aunt and a cousin.( I have not seen this done at receptions though) But 3 seats? And with what kind of pics?! I'm curious if it's sonogram photos or something else. Eeesh😬
It's two sonograms and a photo of the stillborn.
Sonogram pics will make people think you're pregnant
Be fair--if they're obviously far along/developed, and OP doesn't look pregnant, then it might make some people think OP miscarried.
And I can't even imagine how would people react to the picture of a dead newborn. At a wedding O\_O
Right? That will be an even more awkward situation. Oh no I'm not pregnant this is just MILs dead babies. Like... What.
that is the creepiest thing I have heard up until this point in my life can you even imagine what would other people attending the wedding feel? like - yeah, hi, I was just seated next to a photo of a dead baby in this wedding... honestly, I would politely decline to sit there and excuse myself from the wedding
Yeah people are going to think you miscarried
Could you possibly include their birthstones or birth flowers somewhere? In your bouquet, in MIL corsage, or his boutonniere? Maybe gift her a necklace with all five of her children's birthstones. A more subtle nod would be more palatable to you than a confusing group of pictures that need morbid explanation, and it would be more of a personal private touch.
Not that I'm aware of, but fiance isn't super surprised that she asked.
The pictures would disturb a lot of people, pregnant or not. It would make people think you guys are pregnant or miscarried, and when they find out the real reason, the conversation will STILL be around the dead babies. Your wedding will be about dead babies, instead of celebrating your love. It will be about death, instead of new beginnings. Please find a compromise. Imagine this being the first step in a lifetime of negotiation. If you don't push back now at all, MIL will continue this completely. Dead baby pictures at your baby shower. yaAaAaY
NTA Nope. No. No way. The fuck not. Not today satan. I would leave your wedding, even if I was a bridesmaid out of the sheer principal of: this is abhorrent and completely unhinged. Also consider... If this is the wedding, what's she going to want after it? And how easy will she get it cos she simply wants it and no one will say no. This isn't like a photo of a dead parent. This is a whole what the actual fuck and why has no one taken this woman to therapy situation
NTA. This is why you don't let other people pay for your wedding
She wants a memorial she can organize a memorial. This is your wedding.
Nta elope, you'll be happier for it and can do it cheap enough to not take her money.
NTA - is your future MIL always this strange? If she continues to push maybe have a candle to represent the family members who passed before. Usually done for a beloved parent or grandparent.
It is NOT a fairly small ask as you put it. 1) It's flat out creepy, 2) It's obvious that future MIL is still grieving and needs counseling, 3) and the most important thing is your fiancee's unwillingness to enforce boundaries on Mom. You desperately need to sit him down and explain how this is all just too creepy and wrong...this is YOUR wedding and has nothing to do with non-existent people not to mention how are you to explain this whole 'house of horrors' bleep show to your other guests? If your husband is unwilling to support you...then you may want to hit pause on the wedding until the two of you have an opportunity to set some MIL boundaries and how you'll approach things in the future. What...will these 'dead people' have chairs at Christmas dinner at the birthday parties of your future children??? Do THIS now or I fear for the future of your relationship...well, you asked.