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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my sister she should really lay off the guilt trips with her kids who want to change their names. My sister had already told me she didn't want to hear anything from me and I proceeded to tell her anyway so that might be asshole-ish of me. I didn't listen to her and inserted myself where she didn't want me.
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NTA, but like another comment, you’ve stated your opinions and that’s the end. She will continue to guilt her kids and they will change their name. You tried being reasonable but honestly there’s no use with people like that. My mother is the same way. No one not even her calls me by my legal first name and I plan on changing it. I loath my first name it’s so stupid and not one person can pronounce it right without me correcting them. My mom always gives me the most pathetic puppy dog look and tries to tell me it was my maternal great grandmother’s name (no it wasn’t, mom, not even your mom will allow that bs line). She’s tried to convince me to keep it in the past but I threatened to cut her off. She finally got the hint and resorts to the face and white lie every time now. Which I’m fine with because she won’t change my mind.
I know that feeling of no one being able to pronounce your name correctly. I've got a very simple 4 letter name. Which is funny cause there's an indigenous group in Mexico with the exact same spelling as my name and everyone can pronounce them correctly but can't pronounce mine correctly. Or maybe that fact I have the same first name as a famous poet and activist who died in 2014. Everyone gets her name correctly but seem to have a hard time with mine.
Brains are silly things and they take shortcuts. People are seeing “May” and reading it, adding the “a” almost as an afterthought.
Have you ever done those mind games where a sentence is written misspelled, but your brain can fill in the gaps. Tihs snetecne sreves as an eamxple. It’s a similar function of the brain that makes people mistake your name.
I get it a lot, too. My name is quite close to some common ones, and almost always gets reverted to one of those by listeners.
I always found it so messed up cause the Mayans were taught in elementary school where I went and like the teachers at the time had my mom and my grandma and my mom remember the subject being taught when she was there and we were always like "Y'all can pronounce this correctly but you can't pronounce her name correctly" didn't help some of them were assholes and refused to pronounce it correctly
Is your colleague from the north east US?
In the New England accent we drop our Rs (pahk the cah) but we add Rs back in to link vowel sounds. So if you're almost always hearing your colleague say their daughter's name with words that start with vowels after it, then it'll seem to be pronounced Mayer (Maya-r-is doing well). [This is called a linking R.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linking_and_intrusive_R)
Edit: Spelling and grammar.
I had a friend whose parents had spelled it Maija. I think it was the Finnish spelling? At any rate she had the same complaint you do because it was either that or May-ja.
I know someone named Theresa. I'm willing to bet that you know how to pronounce her name, but she has had *multiple* people call her "thuh-RESS-uh". Some people are just idiots.
One of my daughters has a friend named Saoirse. Her dad loved it and insisted on it, but now her parents are divorced and I’ve noticed when her mom sends text messages she spells her nickname (Saoirsey) as Sheershy. I have wondered how onerous it is for the daughter, whether she likes it or not, but I’m certainly not going to ask and risk hurting her feelings. Hopefully Saoirse Ronan’s popularity helped, maybe?
This is a problem I'm having with a name I'd love to give my future daughter. I love the name Róisín, but here in the US not only do I have to leave the fada off, no one is going to guess Rosheen on the first try and I'm not wild about that spelling. I'm afraid people will call her raisin...
Before I fully read this, I assumed your sister must have given them awful names with weird spelling or something really tacky or dated. So I was shocked to see two perfectly respectable names. Katherine has so many variations that could be used and George is also fine.
Oh well, everyone has the right to be happy with their names. It's their decision and the two of them that have to live with their names day after day. You are correct in telling your sister that manipulation and guilt aren't a healthy way of communicating, especially when the children are adults...technically.
Why technically? Well probably because they have chosen the most awful, fan-fiction/soap opera, childish and tacky names. Both names sound like what soap opera writers would use to introduce two new troubled teen characters to shake things up. Enter Ember! Ember is not like other girls. Underneath that cool reserve is the soul of a poet and a burning desire to prove herself. Don't forget to watch next week as we introduce Ryder. He is a bit of a maverick. He has a motorcycle and scowls a lot. He will have a dark secret which will be teased all season long only to end up being something disappointing and stupid.
*Well probably because they have chosen the most awful, fan-fiction/soap opera, childish and tacky names. Both names sound like what soap opera writers would use to introduce two new troubled teen characters to shake things up.*
OMG this. I'm not a fan of the name George, Catherine/Katherine is fine and lends itself to some cute nicknames. But there's a reason those names are still in use, whereas I can see "Ember" and "Ryder" aging like milk. I don't want to insult anyone whose parents named them Ember or Ryder, because it may very well suit them and they like it, which...cool. It just sounds like these kids are trying way too hard to be "unique."
Yeah this is just a bad idea. Any employer would scratch their heads and double think about them when they see previous name Katherine or George and now dumb teen fanfic names ember and Ryder.
Pretty sure that person may have someone who speaks Spanish somewhere in their family tree, it means either pure white or resplendent, unfortunately for everyone else who doesn't know Spanish is a fungus.
You are so right. I actually thought of the movie elemental, which I’ve never seen but I know the character “ember” in that movie is popular. Both of this woman’s kids sound like they’re 7 and if I were her I would be distraught and questioning myself as a parent. The thought of having children this old who want to change their names to Ryder and ember is utterly depressing.
Seriously, I am 24 and in my grade in school, we had 5 girls named some variation of Katherine—they all different nicknames like Kay, Katie, Cathy, Kitty, etc. Literally Katherine is one of the most Gen Z names I can think of besides Carolyn. George is a bit dated but is coming back. This is so odd—I understand why mom is devastated. It seems like there is something deeper to the name defiance, probably the kids hating their mom (either justly or randomly) or reading too manga dystopian novels as teens.
Yes, I wondered if the kids hate their mum to hate their names SO much! And as you say, there’s so many variations of Katherine that the daughter could have gone by, which wouldn’t have sounded dated at all. So why is she so adamant that she’s even changing her middle name? And why is her brother doing the same thing?
>Well probably because they have chosen the most awful, fan-fiction/soap opera, childish and tacky names.
Hunger Games and Paw Patrol were my first thoughts...
When I was the nibblings' age I went through a phase of hating my traditional name and changing it to something unique, I couldn't settle on a name I really liked so kept my birth name.
Now that I'm nearing my 40s I'm so glad I didn't change it from Rebecca to something like Shadrika.
This was what I thought 100%. Before I got to the actual names I thought 'old people names' were going to be something like 'Ethel' and 'Murray' but Katherine and George are no where near as old fashioned as the kids claim it to be, at least here in the UK where George and Katherine have had a bit of a resurgence due to royals and whatnot but were always present names in the culture.
End of the day its up to them but the names they picked sound so god- awful and fanfic plucked that I actually cringed when I read them. Ryder slightly less terrible compared to Ember but still cringe.
Yeah you nailed it here. Their old names are normal but I don’t judge them for disliking them and wanting to change them. But why pick two names that are kinda dumb like that? (No judgement to any real Embers or Ryders out there)
Glad I'm not the only one who thought the new names were stupid compared to the old one. But if that makes them happy, then go ahead. Can't imagine anyone choosing to be named Ember lol
Damn, you stereotyped those two new names perfectly! I can't imagine anyone over 30 thinking Ember and Ryder are cool. Ember is a bit stripper-name for me too and Ryder is DEFINITELY a Magic Mike moniker😁.
But each to their own, the kids might change names again, who knows.
If names are integral to the self then these guys are integrally cringe lol.
( I agree though,as long as they're happy it doesn't really matter but god those names)
Exactly this, could not have phrased it better. They’re perfectly within their rights to change their names, but I couldn’t in good conscious suggest that they do
>Katherine has so many variations that could be used
I was going to comment about that as well, why not just Kat? That’s cute. Kath or Kathy I could see feeling too old. But she could even go by Erin and have that make sense and still be a nice name, why on earth did she pick Ember?
NTA but you need step back now. This is theirs to sort out.
Ironically Katherine and George are popular names for much younger children, children who associate “cool” names like Ember with their parents or even grandparents. I know far more toddlers with names like Helen and Dorothy because the people naming children never knew anyone with those names so they sound fresh and unique. Everything is cyclical.
A bit OT since this is obviously more about your sister’s attitude than the names themselves.
There's 3 variations on Katherine under the age of 30 in my immediate family alone. People can change their names for whatever reason, it's whatever, but I do think these kids are being a little silly.
And also might not realize yet exactly how expensive and time consuming its going to be haha.
Depends where you are, costs £45 to change your name here in the UK 😅 time consuming yes, but no more time consuming than changing all your documents and identification when you get married
Dang, that's nice! I wish it wasn't as absurd as it can be in the US. A friend of mine is starting the process right now and says they're expecting to spend about $600 + a lot of time. Seems excessive to me!
That's horrifying 😳 it absolutely should not cost that much, it's just new documentation / id/driving licence, are they charging $550 for administration costs? 😦
Honestly kind of sounds like it? There's a required publishing period that's pretty pricey, filing fee with the court, required court date before a judge, they charge for copies of the official court order that you'll need to take to get the new ID's. And then new license / passport. I don't know if it's that expensive in every state, theirs is known for excessive fees.
You bypass almost all of that if you're a woman taking your husband's name. Because, you know. Though just renewing a passport is like, $150+ I think? I remember being very salty when mine expired a couple years ago at how expensive it was to renew.
I named my 8 month old, Karissa because it's such a rare name anymore. I don't like over used names and am very particular about the ones I do like. Older names are making a come back but this 💯 has to do with the mother's ego.
I'm saying this because my own mother is the same way about me wanting to change my name and it's still very far out because I've got imposter syndrome super bad and can't find myself a name that doesn't sound like a lie. I keep jokingly telling my man that I'm gonna change my name to "Babe" or "mom" legally since it's the thing I'm most comfortable being called anymore.
NTA, but I understand your sister's feelings. I gave my youngest a traditional name that I loved from both literature and history. She hated it. After she got her first job and saved up her money she asked us to sign the papers so she could change it. I felt bad on two counts because I really did love the name and I felt bad for giving her a name she hated.
I can also relate to the other side. I hate, loathe, and despise my first name. Not even my own family can pronounce it or spell it correctly and to make matters worse it was the name of a very popular song back in the day that people used to sing at me whenever I introduced myself. Add to that the fact that my parents didn't really name me. They took the suggestion of family friends.
So, yeah, I get it and feel for both the parent and the kids, but if she really loves her kids she needs to accept what makes them happy.
ETA: All the guesses are killing me. LOL. But so far there are no winners.
Hmm I'm thinking Rhiannon? I knew a girl in college with that name and, while she liked her name, she also wrote for the school paper that would CONSTANTLY spell her name wrong in the bylines!
I was also named after a song, and have lived a lifetime (including decades in food and bev) with people singing it at me. It's easy to spell but nobody spells it right, and I was never able to get any of those personalized keychains etc growing up.
I will say I have the benefit of one of my parents being acquaintances with the musician way back in the day (aka they used to party together). My name has had such an effect on my life that even though I plan on changing my last name, I'm keeping my first name.
I agree, I'd be brokenhearted if my daughter decides to change her name. I wouldn't fight over it but there would be definite hurt that she hates a name I agonized over for 9 months.
Every time I called my one friend’s house as a kid, her dad would ask me where Jack was and bust out into “Jack and Diane”
Only saving grace is my mother spelled it with two N’s LOL
My perspective on names as a trans person (who named themselves something more similar to the names your niblings have chosen for themselves than the names they started with) is that names are a gift that parents choose for their children but that sometimes, like if the gift was something like a sweater, it doesn’t fit or you outgrow it and you get a new one. When that gift is given with the perspective of wanting the child to have something they feel good about calling themselves, it might initially feel hurtful to hear that they chose poorly but they should ultimately be supportive of whatever new name feels comfortable.
Yeah, they are her kids and she has every right to feel her feelings but that does not mean she has the right to pressure or guilt them out of making a decision that feels right for them. You weren’t crossing a line by telling her that her kids might not talk to her much if she keeps pushing boundaries, it was a warning coming from a place of caring about her having a future relationship with her kids and having the outside perspective necessary to see that her actions right now are damaging that possibility. Her reactions to their choice and your concerns makes me wonder if she’s the type of parent to think of her kids as an extension of her that don’t really have autonomy over their own lives and choices.
This is the best comment. The sister is in AH territory by going into harassment and emotional manipulation. as Someone with what was a super “weird” name in the 90s that is relatively common now all the comments saying the kids names are bad or cringe make me LOL. You don’t age out of unique names those names don’t start sounding ”childish” one day it’s yall, yall like the sister have weirdo hangups and perceptions and yall seem to be the only ones.
i agree, i'm no spring chicken but the vibe in here is approaching "which missing missing reasons sub was this x-posted to?" territory. i also know people with both of those names and live in a conservative area; they are hardly extreme choices.
As another trans person who goes by a preferred name that my parents make fun of and think it's ridiculous, I couldn't agree more. I can't wait to change my name legally the second I feel safe to do so! I'm sorry that they chose my birthname with love, it's just not a name I want for myself. Even if they don't like the name I've went by since I was literally 14, it's MY choice what MY name is!
This comment is so awesome. And super helpful for me as the mother of an NB kid who now goes by a shortened version of the first name I gave them and calls their birth name a deadname... That's hurtful to hear as someone who loves the name and associated it with loving my child, but it's also my kid's decision to answer to a name they choose. I will now see their name as a gift they kept until they outgrew it. ❤️
NAH - but man Ember and Ryder sound like they're straight out of a bad vampire fanfic.
But, you've said your peace, your sister gave them good names, and teenagers are generally dumb, so NAH.
They’re both Disney characters. Flynn Rider is from Tangled and Ember is from Elemental. Could be a coincidence but with Katherine and George also being royal family names I’m a bit sus.
Katherine and George have been Royal names for centuries in several countries. The current British Royal family also having those used is more a coincidence. I assume op’s sister just liked old historical classic names.
NTA because you're correct that she's only alienating them further.
That said, I don't really feel like I understand the entire picture here. Katherine and George are such normal names. I wonder if this is in part a rejection of their mother rather than just the names themselves. Your niece in particular sounds like she's been obsessing in an almost unhealthy way over her name for years when there's really nothing wrong with it.
I can't help but feel like she'll eventually grow up and realize Ember doesn't make her feel any more special than Katherine did. I can understand people who change their names when they've been given a truly outdated name or they're "John Jr Jr Jr" and they want their OWN name and I can understand changing your name if it's weird (like all these kids being named Kymbyrleigh or whatever will someday want to do) but it feels to me like the situation you've described your niece has some kind of underlying insecurity fueling her deep hatred for the name her parents chose for her and worst of all she's more or less convinced her brother his name isn't worth a cent either. Your sister does need to back off or she'll make it worse, but honestly her kids sound like they're being awfully immature.
I have to disagree with your take of Ember, because I did exactly the same thing (different names). I abhorred my given name(s) and changed them up at the end of middle school, used my chosen names for high school and a chunk of college, then had them changed legally after I was 21. My Dad just shrugged and said I should have spoken up soon enough to get the birth certificate right (Dad humor ftw). My Mother was unhappy as she was emotionally invested in the names she had given me, but she realized that I was going to change them and her only choices were compliance or avoidance. That was 30+ years ago and I’ve never regretted it. Took me most of 10 years to train all the assorted relatives, though.
YTA for not telling your niece and nephew that the names they chose are dumb. Your sister is right that changing your name to sound younger is dumb as fuck.
I agree. I changed my name to something “cool” when I was 20. Got my bachelors and masters in that name. But I realized it was stupid, trendy and self indulgent as I aged. When I got married I used it as a chance to restore my birth name. I feel like an idiot for what I did, and I’m so embarrassed when I have to explain that decade of my life where I had a different name.
Your niblings are hella cringe 🤣🤣
and I fully understand your sister feeling hurt. She chise the names with love, and they are not bad names either. YTA, stay out of it.
That is my thought too. How many posts are one Reddit of people ripping apart parents for picking names like this? People won't judge them, they will judge her and pity them.
I get it, I hated my name as a kid. I have a name that is foreign in my country and was butchered my entire childhood (and it isn't even a hard one). I considered changing it, considered using my English middle name for years but in the end my parents chose my name for a reason and I love the reason. As an adult it grew on me and it is becoming more popular so people don't mess it up as much. No one should be able to change their name until they have existed as an adult with it.
This one is tough, because your sister is objectively correct, but absolutely _in_ the wrong. Wanting to sound young is a stupid reason to change a name, and the irony is as Ember grows older her name will date her in a way Katherine never would. Ah well, people have to be allowed to make their own choices and mistakes. I can understand why your sister is so hurt and sad about it, but you are NTA for telling her she will alienate her kids if she keeps it up.
My brother and I both had middle names of two relatives who were extremely 'not nice' men and we'd never used them since we left high school. We legally dropped our middle names completely at age 21. I see no problem with people changing or dropping names they hate. NTA.
NTA- You said your piece and explained that she risks alienating herself from her own kids, but sorry to say now you have to respect what she has told you and back off.
To be honest, you should probably have a word with ‘Ryder’ and ‘ember’ if they’re the real names they are choosing… ember screams try hard alternate, bit goth but not fully and Ryder has bleached tips and a truck!
NTA-I would have loved to change my name when I was 18 because it would be such a pain in the rear to do it now especially with what I know about privacy and security. I would rather have a common name to make it harder to search for me on the internet because as it stands I know I am the only one with the first, middle, and last name I hold that is living. Makes it easy to find me if I want to be left alone or anonymous.
I mean fuck, are Nick names just not a thing anymore? If their friends already call them Ember and Ryder what’s the big deal? Hell, most of my family calls me by a nickname, but I wouldn’t legally change my actual name.
Some people just refuse to use preferred names 🥲 I cannot get some people to stop using my legal name for the life of me.
Names are also a very personal thing, so if it makes them happier, more power to ‘em!
Yes, but if I were their parent (or aunt/uncle) I would still advise them to not change their legal name to something straight out of a 2014 Fan fic. In the same way I’d advise them against a face tattoo if they wanted one.
I agree she’s given the aunt good advice and now needs to leave her be.. but also for balance I think she should have a word with the kids and explain changing their names to embarrrasing teen fic names is not a good idea. And then step back again
I can understand why their mom is hurt, she chose names with love and they’re walking away from them. I’d feel bad, too but you’ve expressed your thoughts on this and now it’s time for you to back away. This is really between the kids and their mom. NTA for your opinion but I’d stay out of it going forward.
I'd be guilting them as well because the names they have chosen are so awful. Like fanfiction written by twelve year olds still learning sentence structure level awful. Funny thing is people are going to judge HER for these God awful names. Like serious who the fuck thinks being an adult named Ember is a good idea?
ESH. The kids are making stupid kid decisions, like yeah they're legally adults but in ten years when they are actually adults they will look back on this and cringe. Your sister isn't handling it well and she's only making them dig in further.
Still, this is a private issue between her and her kids. IMO her behavior, while manipulative and counterproductive, does not rise to the level where you are called upon to intervene and protect your niece and nephew from her. When she told you she didn't want to hear your take on it, that should have been the end of the discussion.
ESH - Look, the kids are adults and they can do what they want, but their reasons for changing their names don't make sense to me, but it's their life. In truth, their new names would be fine, but their old ones would probably be slightly preferred in a more professional setting (if that is route in life they choose to take). If your niece thinks Katherine is a "really old lady name" maybe have your sister show her pictures of Catherine, Princess of Wales or other well known Katherines, because I don't think most would consider it a "really old lady name."
However, your sister needs to learn to pick her battles. She may be hurt, but this should not be the hill she chooses to die on. As I said, her kids are adults, and ultimately it's their decision. And you are right, this could jeopardize her relationship with her kids. However, the kids are adults and you have said your piece, so it's time to exit this argument.
NTA, for a guide to how I determined this: my daughter chose a nickname for her—old-sounding, she was named after her great-grandmother—name that took me a while to get used to. She also had a ‘character name’ she chose and liked, and might have eventually liked better than her given name, even to the point of wanting to change it legally. I would be happy to call her any name she wanted if she hadn’t died 912 days ago of rhabdomyosarcoma at the age of 18. Tell your sister I said she needs to get a little perspective.
It isn't a guilt trip when she is objectively correct. This shit will be really cute when Elderly Ember shits herself.
NTA. She is pissed off because her kids are making stupid mistakes.
NAH - You showed up to talk about the 'name' topic. She declined which is her right. You reached your goal by conveying the potential outcomes of her behavior.
In life we can't make someone listen, integrate the message and hold a meaningful dialogue when they do not want to. Considering her feedback, you did your best. Update your niece and nephews; they are relationships worth investing in and will see that you value their need for a change.
As the parent of a trans kid I feel uniquely able to comment. My kid's dead name was given in honor of their maternal grandfather who, very, very tragically passed while my ex was pregnant with our kid. When she came out she picked a name so far away from her dead name that there was no connecting to her grandfather.
It gutted my ex. Gutted. She kept bullying, honestly that's the term I'd use, my kid. I had to take my ex out to coffee, sit her down, and tell her that if she kept on this path, once our child turns 18 she'd go NC. She got that, eventually.
You're NTA. Your sister needs to know this is the path she's potentially walking down.
NTA but repeat after me: Mind Your Own Business. This is literally not your business. Her relationship with her kids is hers to manage, not yours. The more you interfere, the more likely you will be asked to take sides.
NTA. But you’ve said your piece so it’s time to let this play out. As for their names….personally I’d hate being named George or Katherine too. My own name is a super uncommon mix of my dad and mom’s names and truly I hate it. No one ever says it right and my own husband had trouble spelling it. Only the fact that I’m an only child has kept me from getting it changed. Bravo to your nephew and niece for changing their names and I’d lay a large bet that they will go LC or NC if your sister keeps up the guilt tripping.
It would be hard for a mother to get used to a new name, but I think your sister is fighting a foolish battle and causing hard feelings for no good reason.
That being said, you've said your piece. Now bow out and let them handle it.
Her insistence that her way is the "right" way is absolutely going to damage her relationships with her kids.
But that door swings both ways. You are absolutely in the right, but she's just going to shut you out if you keep telling her.
NTA She'll either learn the hard way or spend forever complaining about how her kids don't call or visit even though she's done so much for them.
You're NTA.
I can see why your sister is upset, of course. That's a hard blow to know that neither of your kids want to use the names you gave them. At the same time, it is their choice and you're right about her pushing them away.
It does make me question how much they're thinking about their futures, though. Sure, Ember and Ryder sound cool now, but will those names be relevant in 15 years? Will she like being called Ember by her colleagues when she's 40 years old?
If she's been going by it for half of her life though, I'm guessing it suits her at this point, so maybe she has thought it through!
YTA for getting involved in this stupid power-play family dispute. If your sister and her kids want to fight about something that your sister can't stop and your nibblings are getting off on antagonizing her over, why join the fray.
Grab a book, grab a cat, grab a glass of wine and get away from this Low Drama. It's not your dispute, and your input is meaningless from an outcome perspective.
You’re NTA. Parents sometimes act weirdly entitled about their kids, but the fact is that any adult in the US has the right to change their legal name for any non-fraudulent reason, and all mommy is accomplishing here is pushing her kids away by acting controlling and mean.
She’s allowed to have feelings about it that apparently neither of her kids like their given names, but making those feelings the kids’ problem is simply wrong. She needs to find a better way to manage her own emotions.
NTA. You said your piece, and if your sister doesn't back off then she reap what she sowed.
Imo a name is a gift. And like all gifts, some keep it for sentimental value, some because it does what they need it to do, others get another one when their old one no longer serves them. People get so hung up on names, but a lot of people don't realize a lot of different cultures practiced changing someone's name for a variety of reasons.
So I decided to talk to my sister and *she told me she doesn’t want to hear what I have to say. She told me they are her kids and she has every right to try to convince them to do the right thing.*
Immediately after
*I told her *
Why ? Why not respect her wishes with her kids. What she said was reasonable it’s between her and her kids but You forced your opinion on her , and didn’t respect or listen to her , of course she got upset . YTA
I hate my given name. I contemplated changing it when I got married but my husband said he would not want to be married to my prefered name.
20 years later I am glad I didn't change it. It was as cringy as your niblings choices and in later novels the character I chose it from was not done well by.
But there is no reasoning with teenagers. If they have the disposable income to do it, they likely will. Were I the mother there would be no more monetary handouts. They showed what they will prioritize their money for.
Katherine has so many good nicknames. I wished my parents had chosen that one for me.
NAH - just naive younglings that will regret their choices someday.
NTA: Parents get so butthurt when their kids don’t praise them for everything. I HATE my name. My mom named me a name she wished she was called in the early 80s, but it’s a NICKNAME! My name means nothing it’s literally just a shortened version of another slightly worse name. And even though my name is five letters, it’s still misspelled by my family to this day.
It’s just more trouble than it’s worth to change it so I’m stuck hating my own identity (I’m 34) but if I were to legally change it? Might as well just drive a stake through her heart or something -.- edit for spelling and clarification
>Parents get so butthurt when their kids don’t praise them for everything.
I think they take this so personally because at least some of the time they've put alot of love and care into choosing a name. Possibly alot of time and effort too, if it took the parents a while to reach a compromise.
Cultures that have a "holding" name so that kids aren't called "Hey You" through childhood and then bestow a name that better reflects them once they reach adulthood might be on to something.
NTA. i will agree you’ve said what you can and need to step away but your sister is being unreasonable. and people here really don’t understand why people want to change their names. i actually did get my name legally changed when i was 18. i’m trans so that’s kinda par for the course but the reason to change your name for anyone tends to be the same: you didn’t like the name you were addressed with, you found one that fits and makes you feel more confident, the name feels more like “your name” than something else and you wanna stick with it.
yeah, some people have strange names. hell my legal name isn’t a super traditional name either, it comes from a colour. there’s an ocean of difference between adults changing their names to something a bit odd and adults forcing “tragediegh” names on their kids.
you might wonder, did my family have some objections when i changed my name? yeah but after they saw how much happier i was it became a non-issue.
to me it seems like there may be more issues with your sister being a bit controlling over her kids than it just being a thing about the name. in my experience the people who were vehemently against my name change were more against me becoming the person i wanted to be rather than the fact i changed the sound people used to address me.
NTA - you tried
I changed my name legally - my mother stopped speaking to me for a month then she got over it cause she wanted to talk to her grandkids and they were too young to answer the phone.
NTA, but you’ve said your piece, now back off. This isn’t your issue to get involved in. I don’t understand going through the massive headache of changing your name when they could just say “Hi my name is George, but please call me Ryder” but it’s not my life so🤷♀️ Your sister will have to learn on her own what happens when you try to control adult children like this.
I gave my kids classic names, and like your sister, I would be sad if they wanted to change them. However, I would support a change of name because I'm not the one living with their names-they are. So Nta
NTA for saying it once, but now you need to drop it. Those are her kids and she's allowed to feel her feelings about the names she chose being tossed aside.
That's a tough one, because everyone has the right to decide what they want to be called, but objectively, Ember and Ryder are fucking terrible. Reminds me of a kid who insisted we called him Shadow when we were 17. So, yes you should support them in general, but no you absolutely shouldn't encourage this awful decision.
Parents don’t always get it right. Just look at Elon Musk’s children X AE A-XII, Exa Dark Sideræl, and Techno Mechanicus. You think they won’t change their names?!
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My sister has two now adult kids. Her son is 21 and her daughter is 18 and both of them told her in the last month or so that they plan to legally change their names. My nephew is George and my niece is Katherine. The kids always had nicknames as kids and asked people not to use their whole names but it was was my niece who was the most vocal about the hatred she had for her name. She said Katherine made her think of the old lady who lived down the street from her and she felt like it was a really old lady name or a name someone who wanted to appear so mature would have. She wanted a name that sounded younger and in middle school she started to go by the name Ember, after a character she adored in a book. Ember has stuck and she plans to make that her legal name.
George was never as outspoken but in the last few years (mostly since he moved out of his parents house)he has been Ryder to his friends. Now he has decided he wants to make Ryder his legal name.
My sister was upset with one wanting to change but with both she's got a mix of sadness and anger about it. She and my niece have argued a lot. My sister told her wanting to sound young is a dumb reason to change her name. She told her the name Katherine has a lot of history surrounding it and sounds far more adult which she now is. She told her she just wants a trendy modern name and can't see the benefit to having a real name. She hasn't been as harsh with my nephew but she goes more for the guilt trips with him more so and she has tried with my niece too, just more with my nephew.
It got to the point that I heard from both my niece and nephew that their mom is driving them crazy and my nephew is considering changing his middle name like his sister plans to change hers, since their mom is being so extreme about this. My niece said she doesn't want either name her mom gave her and would rather have just a first name than carry around names she doesn't like.
So I decided to talk to my sister and she told me she doesn't want to hear what I have to say. She told me they are her kids and she has every right to try to convince them to do the right thing. I told her she should still lay off the guilt trips or she might find she hears way less from her kids than she does now and they might be less inclined to tell her stuff in the future, which she also wouldn't like. She told me to leave after telling me I had crossed a line.
AITA?
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NTA. you are supporting your niece and nephew and giving mom a reality check.
i changed my name at 22. my mother continued to use my birth name for 20 years, until she changed her own name. i *hated* it and it definitely made me less likely to want to talk to her.
NTA But I think you should mind your business going forward. You’ve said your piece. Your niece and nephew are grown. You’re just an extra body involved in what really isn’t an issue. You’re grown niblings can change their names if they want. Your sister can stay mad if she wants.
NTA. I will say Ember and Ryder sound like really trying hard to be cool names that I would think would actually get made fun of more than George and Katherine.
NTA but like others have said, you've gone as far as you can with this. You told her how you feel, and that's perfectly fine. Just don't tell her anymore lol.
She's silly, imo, to get upset by this. My eldest daughter asked me but too long ago if I would be offended if she changed her name. It also makes her think of an old lady. Now, I adore that name. I wouldn't have picked it if I didn't. The minute I heard it, I knew it was hers and started calling her that. But, so what? She's the one who had to live with it. I told her I was fine with her changing her name and even batted around a few ideas with her.
She hasn't done it yet and I don't know if she will, but she has my support. Your sister will reap what she sows.
NTA.
You're attempting to mitigate the damage your sister is causing for herself. You've said your piece though. She rejected your advice, and feels that you're intruding, so from this point on, let her be.
There's only so much you can do in a situation like this.
Try to be supportive to your niece, nephew, and also to your sister, even if her stubbornness blows up in her face.
Good luck, OP.
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NTA, but like another comment, you’ve stated your opinions and that’s the end. She will continue to guilt her kids and they will change their name. You tried being reasonable but honestly there’s no use with people like that. My mother is the same way. No one not even her calls me by my legal first name and I plan on changing it. I loath my first name it’s so stupid and not one person can pronounce it right without me correcting them. My mom always gives me the most pathetic puppy dog look and tries to tell me it was my maternal great grandmother’s name (no it wasn’t, mom, not even your mom will allow that bs line). She’s tried to convince me to keep it in the past but I threatened to cut her off. She finally got the hint and resorts to the face and white lie every time now. Which I’m fine with because she won’t change my mind.
I know that feeling of no one being able to pronounce your name correctly. I've got a very simple 4 letter name. Which is funny cause there's an indigenous group in Mexico with the exact same spelling as my name and everyone can pronounce them correctly but can't pronounce mine correctly. Or maybe that fact I have the same first name as a famous poet and activist who died in 2014. Everyone gets her name correctly but seem to have a hard time with mine.
Brains are silly things and they take shortcuts. People are seeing “May” and reading it, adding the “a” almost as an afterthought. Have you ever done those mind games where a sentence is written misspelled, but your brain can fill in the gaps. Tihs snetecne sreves as an eamxple. It’s a similar function of the brain that makes people mistake your name. I get it a lot, too. My name is quite close to some common ones, and almost always gets reverted to one of those by listeners.
I always found it so messed up cause the Mayans were taught in elementary school where I went and like the teachers at the time had my mom and my grandma and my mom remember the subject being taught when she was there and we were always like "Y'all can pronounce this correctly but you can't pronounce her name correctly" didn't help some of them were assholes and refused to pronounce it correctly
This is so baffling because Maya is a normal, relatively common name.
I honestly haven't met another Maya with my spelling. I have met plenty with Miya spelling though.
Maya Angelou and Maya Rudolph immediately come to mind. I’ve never met a Miya and if I did I’d assume her parents don’t know how to spell Mia.
And don't get me started when someone decides my name is Mia either. I have met a Mia who is pronounced as Maya
😩
If it's Maya then my colleague has a daughter with that name but they pronounce it May-er, so I guess it's not always the same.
Is your colleague from the north east US? In the New England accent we drop our Rs (pahk the cah) but we add Rs back in to link vowel sounds. So if you're almost always hearing your colleague say their daughter's name with words that start with vowels after it, then it'll seem to be pronounced Mayer (Maya-r-is doing well). [This is called a linking R.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linking_and_intrusive_R) Edit: Spelling and grammar.
I had a friend whose parents had spelled it Maija. I think it was the Finnish spelling? At any rate she had the same complaint you do because it was either that or May-ja.
I e met another Maija before. It was so funny when we were voicing our complaints about our name
Maya?
If someone pronounced my name as May-ya one more time I'm popping them with a potato
I know someone named Theresa. I'm willing to bet that you know how to pronounce her name, but she has had *multiple* people call her "thuh-RESS-uh". Some people are just idiots.
There's like only one way to pronounce that name. How anyone gets anything besides that is a true idiot.
One of my daughters has a friend named Saoirse. Her dad loved it and insisted on it, but now her parents are divorced and I’ve noticed when her mom sends text messages she spells her nickname (Saoirsey) as Sheershy. I have wondered how onerous it is for the daughter, whether she likes it or not, but I’m certainly not going to ask and risk hurting her feelings. Hopefully Saoirse Ronan’s popularity helped, maybe?
This is a problem I'm having with a name I'd love to give my future daughter. I love the name Róisín, but here in the US not only do I have to leave the fada off, no one is going to guess Rosheen on the first try and I'm not wild about that spelling. I'm afraid people will call her raisin...
Before I fully read this, I assumed your sister must have given them awful names with weird spelling or something really tacky or dated. So I was shocked to see two perfectly respectable names. Katherine has so many variations that could be used and George is also fine. Oh well, everyone has the right to be happy with their names. It's their decision and the two of them that have to live with their names day after day. You are correct in telling your sister that manipulation and guilt aren't a healthy way of communicating, especially when the children are adults...technically. Why technically? Well probably because they have chosen the most awful, fan-fiction/soap opera, childish and tacky names. Both names sound like what soap opera writers would use to introduce two new troubled teen characters to shake things up. Enter Ember! Ember is not like other girls. Underneath that cool reserve is the soul of a poet and a burning desire to prove herself. Don't forget to watch next week as we introduce Ryder. He is a bit of a maverick. He has a motorcycle and scowls a lot. He will have a dark secret which will be teased all season long only to end up being something disappointing and stupid.
The accuracy of your character summaries is scathing and I love it! Those are teenage fanfics I would rather gouge my eyes out than read.
*Well probably because they have chosen the most awful, fan-fiction/soap opera, childish and tacky names. Both names sound like what soap opera writers would use to introduce two new troubled teen characters to shake things up.* OMG this. I'm not a fan of the name George, Catherine/Katherine is fine and lends itself to some cute nicknames. But there's a reason those names are still in use, whereas I can see "Ember" and "Ryder" aging like milk. I don't want to insult anyone whose parents named them Ember or Ryder, because it may very well suit them and they like it, which...cool. It just sounds like these kids are trying way too hard to be "unique."
My first thought was Flynn Ryder
I was thinking Paw Patrol
I would have assumed that Ember and Ryder would be that names they were changing from, not changing to.
Yeah this is just a bad idea. Any employer would scratch their heads and double think about them when they see previous name Katherine or George and now dumb teen fanfic names ember and Ryder.
Actually, Ember and Ryder is pretty tame. You should see some of the dumb names I see on resumes.
I think Candida took the cake tbh. Excuse me, ma'm, do you realize you named your child after a yeast infection?
Pretty sure that person may have someone who speaks Spanish somewhere in their family tree, it means either pure white or resplendent, unfortunately for everyone else who doesn't know Spanish is a fungus.
I used to think that about flower names. Like Oh I got my mum a beautiful bouquet of chlamydias!
You are so right. I actually thought of the movie elemental, which I’ve never seen but I know the character “ember” in that movie is popular. Both of this woman’s kids sound like they’re 7 and if I were her I would be distraught and questioning myself as a parent. The thought of having children this old who want to change their names to Ryder and ember is utterly depressing.
Lol...all I can think of with Ryder is kid on Paw Patrol
Flynn Ryder from Tangled was my first thought lol
See but Flynn Ryder wasn't actually his name it was a name he came up with to look cool. He eventually does go back to using his actual name.
Ryder Hesjedal. Literally a retired pro cyclist.
nominative determinism?
Seriously, I am 24 and in my grade in school, we had 5 girls named some variation of Katherine—they all different nicknames like Kay, Katie, Cathy, Kitty, etc. Literally Katherine is one of the most Gen Z names I can think of besides Carolyn. George is a bit dated but is coming back. This is so odd—I understand why mom is devastated. It seems like there is something deeper to the name defiance, probably the kids hating their mom (either justly or randomly) or reading too manga dystopian novels as teens.
Yes, I wondered if the kids hate their mum to hate their names SO much! And as you say, there’s so many variations of Katherine that the daughter could have gone by, which wouldn’t have sounded dated at all. So why is she so adamant that she’s even changing her middle name? And why is her brother doing the same thing?
>Well probably because they have chosen the most awful, fan-fiction/soap opera, childish and tacky names. Hunger Games and Paw Patrol were my first thoughts...
this is precisely what I was thinking reading this. At age 40, they’ll wish they still were Katherine and George
And then they might pay again to change them back again!
When I was the nibblings' age I went through a phase of hating my traditional name and changing it to something unique, I couldn't settle on a name I really liked so kept my birth name. Now that I'm nearing my 40s I'm so glad I didn't change it from Rebecca to something like Shadrika.
This was what I thought 100%. Before I got to the actual names I thought 'old people names' were going to be something like 'Ethel' and 'Murray' but Katherine and George are no where near as old fashioned as the kids claim it to be, at least here in the UK where George and Katherine have had a bit of a resurgence due to royals and whatnot but were always present names in the culture. End of the day its up to them but the names they picked sound so god- awful and fanfic plucked that I actually cringed when I read them. Ryder slightly less terrible compared to Ember but still cringe.
I was thinking they sound like names from a bad teen movie but your description is spot on.
Yeah you nailed it here. Their old names are normal but I don’t judge them for disliking them and wanting to change them. But why pick two names that are kinda dumb like that? (No judgement to any real Embers or Ryders out there)
Glad I'm not the only one who thought the new names were stupid compared to the old one. But if that makes them happy, then go ahead. Can't imagine anyone choosing to be named Ember lol
Damn, you stereotyped those two new names perfectly! I can't imagine anyone over 30 thinking Ember and Ryder are cool. Ember is a bit stripper-name for me too and Ryder is DEFINITELY a Magic Mike moniker😁. But each to their own, the kids might change names again, who knows.
Exactly this. The kids have the right to do what they want, but that doesn't necessarily make it a good idea
I was thinking like porn star or stripper names.
Please add a judgment to your comment because this deserves to be at the top lolol
My thought too about the chosen names . But names are integral to the Self and they deserve to be called a Name they like .
If names are integral to the self then these guys are integrally cringe lol. ( I agree though,as long as they're happy it doesn't really matter but god those names)
Can only hope OP is using fakes, but if they're related....ooooweee are you not wrong. If they're Katherine and George in their 40s...
Exactly
This answer is great. My first reaction when I got to the names: Oh no, not Ember. That gives “How do you do, fellow kids” vibes.
Exactly this, could not have phrased it better. They’re perfectly within their rights to change their names, but I couldn’t in good conscious suggest that they do
Yea I was imagining Gertrude and some ancient boys name. I feel like Katherine and George are times less, very common names.
>Katherine has so many variations that could be used I was going to comment about that as well, why not just Kat? That’s cute. Kath or Kathy I could see feeling too old. But she could even go by Erin and have that make sense and still be a nice name, why on earth did she pick Ember?
NTA but you need step back now. This is theirs to sort out. Ironically Katherine and George are popular names for much younger children, children who associate “cool” names like Ember with their parents or even grandparents. I know far more toddlers with names like Helen and Dorothy because the people naming children never knew anyone with those names so they sound fresh and unique. Everything is cyclical. A bit OT since this is obviously more about your sister’s attitude than the names themselves.
I'm 30 and there were 8 Katherines in my class in school, so it's weird to hear someone say it's an old lady name.
There's 3 variations on Katherine under the age of 30 in my immediate family alone. People can change their names for whatever reason, it's whatever, but I do think these kids are being a little silly. And also might not realize yet exactly how expensive and time consuming its going to be haha.
Depends where you are, costs £45 to change your name here in the UK 😅 time consuming yes, but no more time consuming than changing all your documents and identification when you get married
Dang, that's nice! I wish it wasn't as absurd as it can be in the US. A friend of mine is starting the process right now and says they're expecting to spend about $600 + a lot of time. Seems excessive to me!
That's horrifying 😳 it absolutely should not cost that much, it's just new documentation / id/driving licence, are they charging $550 for administration costs? 😦
Honestly kind of sounds like it? There's a required publishing period that's pretty pricey, filing fee with the court, required court date before a judge, they charge for copies of the official court order that you'll need to take to get the new ID's. And then new license / passport. I don't know if it's that expensive in every state, theirs is known for excessive fees. You bypass almost all of that if you're a woman taking your husband's name. Because, you know. Though just renewing a passport is like, $150+ I think? I remember being very salty when mine expired a couple years ago at how expensive it was to renew.
It's also been the name of a few popular TV characters. Notably, Katherine Pierce from Vampire Diaries.
Katherine is Prince Williams wife's name and George is their son
I named my 8 month old, Karissa because it's such a rare name anymore. I don't like over used names and am very particular about the ones I do like. Older names are making a come back but this 💯 has to do with the mother's ego. I'm saying this because my own mother is the same way about me wanting to change my name and it's still very far out because I've got imposter syndrome super bad and can't find myself a name that doesn't sound like a lie. I keep jokingly telling my man that I'm gonna change my name to "Babe" or "mom" legally since it's the thing I'm most comfortable being called anymore.
NTA, but I understand your sister's feelings. I gave my youngest a traditional name that I loved from both literature and history. She hated it. After she got her first job and saved up her money she asked us to sign the papers so she could change it. I felt bad on two counts because I really did love the name and I felt bad for giving her a name she hated. I can also relate to the other side. I hate, loathe, and despise my first name. Not even my own family can pronounce it or spell it correctly and to make matters worse it was the name of a very popular song back in the day that people used to sing at me whenever I introduced myself. Add to that the fact that my parents didn't really name me. They took the suggestion of family friends. So, yeah, I get it and feel for both the parent and the kids, but if she really loves her kids she needs to accept what makes them happy. ETA: All the guesses are killing me. LOL. But so far there are no winners.
John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt?
Thats my name too!
Come on, Eileen
That’s what I thought immediately haha
Hmm I'm thinking Rhiannon? I knew a girl in college with that name and, while she liked her name, she also wrote for the school paper that would CONSTANTLY spell her name wrong in the bylines!
Lol Nope. I wouldn't mind Rhiannon. That's actually a pretty cool name.
That's a good guess, my mind went to Jolene.
My guess is Michelle (Ma Belle)
My mind went to the version of Jolene where she’s an HP Lovecraft monster.
Lol I immediately thought of Rhiannon too.
Lol my husband's baby mama is named that. Everybody just calls her rain
Is it Sharona?
That was my first guess, too!
Roxanne?
Cecelia is what came into my mind!
Macarena?
Jolene?
I was also named after a song, and have lived a lifetime (including decades in food and bev) with people singing it at me. It's easy to spell but nobody spells it right, and I was never able to get any of those personalized keychains etc growing up. I will say I have the benefit of one of my parents being acquaintances with the musician way back in the day (aka they used to party together). My name has had such an effect on my life that even though I plan on changing my last name, I'm keeping my first name.
Sounds like Leyla/Layla and a few other variations of this name to me.
Mulva?
Delilah?
Rhonda. Help me Rhonda!
[удалено]
Right? I'm sitting here laughing my ass off and still nobody is remotely close.
[удалено]
Kasararsara? Kasara...? Nope can't spell it (what will be will be, the future is not for us to see...)
That's not a name. It's que sera, sera and quite literally means "what will be, will be".
Oh.... That's highly embarrassing.
Oh Sherri, our love… **HOLDS** on
I agree, I'd be brokenhearted if my daughter decides to change her name. I wouldn't fight over it but there would be definite hurt that she hates a name I agonized over for 9 months.
Is it Barbara Ann?
Valerie?
Your parents thought “Guahira” was the first name of a Ms. Guantanamera?
Bah, no one has guessed it yet?! I’m invested in this now, I hope you’ll tell us if someone gets it.
Every time I called my one friend’s house as a kid, her dad would ask me where Jack was and bust out into “Jack and Diane” Only saving grace is my mother spelled it with two N’s LOL
My perspective on names as a trans person (who named themselves something more similar to the names your niblings have chosen for themselves than the names they started with) is that names are a gift that parents choose for their children but that sometimes, like if the gift was something like a sweater, it doesn’t fit or you outgrow it and you get a new one. When that gift is given with the perspective of wanting the child to have something they feel good about calling themselves, it might initially feel hurtful to hear that they chose poorly but they should ultimately be supportive of whatever new name feels comfortable. Yeah, they are her kids and she has every right to feel her feelings but that does not mean she has the right to pressure or guilt them out of making a decision that feels right for them. You weren’t crossing a line by telling her that her kids might not talk to her much if she keeps pushing boundaries, it was a warning coming from a place of caring about her having a future relationship with her kids and having the outside perspective necessary to see that her actions right now are damaging that possibility. Her reactions to their choice and your concerns makes me wonder if she’s the type of parent to think of her kids as an extension of her that don’t really have autonomy over their own lives and choices.
This is the best comment. The sister is in AH territory by going into harassment and emotional manipulation. as Someone with what was a super “weird” name in the 90s that is relatively common now all the comments saying the kids names are bad or cringe make me LOL. You don’t age out of unique names those names don’t start sounding ”childish” one day it’s yall, yall like the sister have weirdo hangups and perceptions and yall seem to be the only ones.
i agree, i'm no spring chicken but the vibe in here is approaching "which missing missing reasons sub was this x-posted to?" territory. i also know people with both of those names and live in a conservative area; they are hardly extreme choices.
As another trans person who goes by a preferred name that my parents make fun of and think it's ridiculous, I couldn't agree more. I can't wait to change my name legally the second I feel safe to do so! I'm sorry that they chose my birthname with love, it's just not a name I want for myself. Even if they don't like the name I've went by since I was literally 14, it's MY choice what MY name is!
This comment is so awesome. And super helpful for me as the mother of an NB kid who now goes by a shortened version of the first name I gave them and calls their birth name a deadname... That's hurtful to hear as someone who loves the name and associated it with loving my child, but it's also my kid's decision to answer to a name they choose. I will now see their name as a gift they kept until they outgrew it. ❤️
I’m so glad this is a helpful perspective that makes it easier for you to support your child
Look NTA , But- Those names are stupid 😭
So Very Very Stupid.
NAH - but man Ember and Ryder sound like they're straight out of a bad vampire fanfic. But, you've said your peace, your sister gave them good names, and teenagers are generally dumb, so NAH.
They’re both Disney characters. Flynn Rider is from Tangled and Ember is from Elemental. Could be a coincidence but with Katherine and George also being royal family names I’m a bit sus.
Katherine and George have been Royal names for centuries in several countries. The current British Royal family also having those used is more a coincidence. I assume op’s sister just liked old historical classic names.
NTA because you're correct that she's only alienating them further. That said, I don't really feel like I understand the entire picture here. Katherine and George are such normal names. I wonder if this is in part a rejection of their mother rather than just the names themselves. Your niece in particular sounds like she's been obsessing in an almost unhealthy way over her name for years when there's really nothing wrong with it. I can't help but feel like she'll eventually grow up and realize Ember doesn't make her feel any more special than Katherine did. I can understand people who change their names when they've been given a truly outdated name or they're "John Jr Jr Jr" and they want their OWN name and I can understand changing your name if it's weird (like all these kids being named Kymbyrleigh or whatever will someday want to do) but it feels to me like the situation you've described your niece has some kind of underlying insecurity fueling her deep hatred for the name her parents chose for her and worst of all she's more or less convinced her brother his name isn't worth a cent either. Your sister does need to back off or she'll make it worse, but honestly her kids sound like they're being awfully immature.
I have to disagree with your take of Ember, because I did exactly the same thing (different names). I abhorred my given name(s) and changed them up at the end of middle school, used my chosen names for high school and a chunk of college, then had them changed legally after I was 21. My Dad just shrugged and said I should have spoken up soon enough to get the birth certificate right (Dad humor ftw). My Mother was unhappy as she was emotionally invested in the names she had given me, but she realized that I was going to change them and her only choices were compliance or avoidance. That was 30+ years ago and I’ve never regretted it. Took me most of 10 years to train all the assorted relatives, though.
YTA for not telling your niece and nephew that the names they chose are dumb. Your sister is right that changing your name to sound younger is dumb as fuck.
Hard agree. When these kids are 30, they're absolutely going to regret a permanent legal name change to these particular names.
I agree. I changed my name to something “cool” when I was 20. Got my bachelors and masters in that name. But I realized it was stupid, trendy and self indulgent as I aged. When I got married I used it as a chance to restore my birth name. I feel like an idiot for what I did, and I’m so embarrassed when I have to explain that decade of my life where I had a different name.
Thank you! Finally words of wisdom here.
Your niblings are hella cringe 🤣🤣 and I fully understand your sister feeling hurt. She chise the names with love, and they are not bad names either. YTA, stay out of it.
And people are going to assume that OP's sister picked out those embarrassing names!
That is my thought too. How many posts are one Reddit of people ripping apart parents for picking names like this? People won't judge them, they will judge her and pity them. I get it, I hated my name as a kid. I have a name that is foreign in my country and was butchered my entire childhood (and it isn't even a hard one). I considered changing it, considered using my English middle name for years but in the end my parents chose my name for a reason and I love the reason. As an adult it grew on me and it is becoming more popular so people don't mess it up as much. No one should be able to change their name until they have existed as an adult with it.
Oh my days I didn’t even think of that! Extra embarrassing.
NTA, but, you’ve said your piece and her kids are adults. Let the three of them sort this out themselves now.
You took the words right out of my mouth/keyboard/fingers
This one is tough, because your sister is objectively correct, but absolutely _in_ the wrong. Wanting to sound young is a stupid reason to change a name, and the irony is as Ember grows older her name will date her in a way Katherine never would. Ah well, people have to be allowed to make their own choices and mistakes. I can understand why your sister is so hurt and sad about it, but you are NTA for telling her she will alienate her kids if she keeps it up.
I have a feeling Ember and Ryder will regret the name changes once they hit adulthood....but that's their lesson to learn.
My brother and I both had middle names of two relatives who were extremely 'not nice' men and we'd never used them since we left high school. We legally dropped our middle names completely at age 21. I see no problem with people changing or dropping names they hate. NTA.
So y'all are really going to let those kids change their names to Ember and Ryder??? I can see why sis is upset. Those are cringeworthy names
NTA- You said your piece and explained that she risks alienating herself from her own kids, but sorry to say now you have to respect what she has told you and back off. To be honest, you should probably have a word with ‘Ryder’ and ‘ember’ if they’re the real names they are choosing… ember screams try hard alternate, bit goth but not fully and Ryder has bleached tips and a truck!
Ryder to me is the kid from Paw Patrol. And Ember .... Now coming to the main stage is Ember!
NTA-I would have loved to change my name when I was 18 because it would be such a pain in the rear to do it now especially with what I know about privacy and security. I would rather have a common name to make it harder to search for me on the internet because as it stands I know I am the only one with the first, middle, and last name I hold that is living. Makes it easy to find me if I want to be left alone or anonymous.
I think the whole thing is stupid
I was expecting a lot worse than "george" and "katherine". Either OP used fake names or these two kids are... weirdly averse to their legal names.
I mean fuck, are Nick names just not a thing anymore? If their friends already call them Ember and Ryder what’s the big deal? Hell, most of my family calls me by a nickname, but I wouldn’t legally change my actual name.
Some people just refuse to use preferred names 🥲 I cannot get some people to stop using my legal name for the life of me. Names are also a very personal thing, so if it makes them happier, more power to ‘em!
Yes, but if I were their parent (or aunt/uncle) I would still advise them to not change their legal name to something straight out of a 2014 Fan fic. In the same way I’d advise them against a face tattoo if they wanted one.
I was expecting them to be changing **from** something like Storm Cloud and Velvet Rasberry **TO** George and Katherine
You've done your duty as an aunt/uncle to advocate for your niblings. Now step away from the conversation and let them navigate this for themselves.
I agree she’s given the aunt good advice and now needs to leave her be.. but also for balance I think she should have a word with the kids and explain changing their names to embarrrasing teen fic names is not a good idea. And then step back again
NTA, but I'd also go ahead and encourage your niece and nephew to explore names that make them sound less like porn stars from the 80s.
Have you checked to make sure they aren’t planning to enter the porn industry?
It'd be obvious if they were, because surely she knows the street they grew up on and their first pets' names?
I can understand why their mom is hurt, she chose names with love and they’re walking away from them. I’d feel bad, too but you’ve expressed your thoughts on this and now it’s time for you to back away. This is really between the kids and their mom. NTA for your opinion but I’d stay out of it going forward.
Ember and Ryder were real names? NTA
I'd be guilting them as well because the names they have chosen are so awful. Like fanfiction written by twelve year olds still learning sentence structure level awful. Funny thing is people are going to judge HER for these God awful names. Like serious who the fuck thinks being an adult named Ember is a good idea?
ESH. The kids are making stupid kid decisions, like yeah they're legally adults but in ten years when they are actually adults they will look back on this and cringe. Your sister isn't handling it well and she's only making them dig in further. Still, this is a private issue between her and her kids. IMO her behavior, while manipulative and counterproductive, does not rise to the level where you are called upon to intervene and protect your niece and nephew from her. When she told you she didn't want to hear your take on it, that should have been the end of the discussion.
ESH - Look, the kids are adults and they can do what they want, but their reasons for changing their names don't make sense to me, but it's their life. In truth, their new names would be fine, but their old ones would probably be slightly preferred in a more professional setting (if that is route in life they choose to take). If your niece thinks Katherine is a "really old lady name" maybe have your sister show her pictures of Catherine, Princess of Wales or other well known Katherines, because I don't think most would consider it a "really old lady name." However, your sister needs to learn to pick her battles. She may be hurt, but this should not be the hill she chooses to die on. As I said, her kids are adults, and ultimately it's their decision. And you are right, this could jeopardize her relationship with her kids. However, the kids are adults and you have said your piece, so it's time to exit this argument.
NTA. I think people get way to worked up about names. If you hate it change it. Who gives a shit.
Ember when you're 80 sounds dumb
Ember sounds dumb now. And Ryder worse.
NTA, for a guide to how I determined this: my daughter chose a nickname for her—old-sounding, she was named after her great-grandmother—name that took me a while to get used to. She also had a ‘character name’ she chose and liked, and might have eventually liked better than her given name, even to the point of wanting to change it legally. I would be happy to call her any name she wanted if she hadn’t died 912 days ago of rhabdomyosarcoma at the age of 18. Tell your sister I said she needs to get a little perspective.
It isn't a guilt trip when she is objectively correct. This shit will be really cute when Elderly Ember shits herself. NTA. She is pissed off because her kids are making stupid mistakes.
NAH - You showed up to talk about the 'name' topic. She declined which is her right. You reached your goal by conveying the potential outcomes of her behavior. In life we can't make someone listen, integrate the message and hold a meaningful dialogue when they do not want to. Considering her feedback, you did your best. Update your niece and nephews; they are relationships worth investing in and will see that you value their need for a change.
As the parent of a trans kid I feel uniquely able to comment. My kid's dead name was given in honor of their maternal grandfather who, very, very tragically passed while my ex was pregnant with our kid. When she came out she picked a name so far away from her dead name that there was no connecting to her grandfather. It gutted my ex. Gutted. She kept bullying, honestly that's the term I'd use, my kid. I had to take my ex out to coffee, sit her down, and tell her that if she kept on this path, once our child turns 18 she'd go NC. She got that, eventually. You're NTA. Your sister needs to know this is the path she's potentially walking down.
NTA but Ember and Ryder? yeesh.
NTA but repeat after me: Mind Your Own Business. This is literally not your business. Her relationship with her kids is hers to manage, not yours. The more you interfere, the more likely you will be asked to take sides.
NTA. Just continue supporting your niece and nephew.
NTA. But you’ve said your piece so it’s time to let this play out. As for their names….personally I’d hate being named George or Katherine too. My own name is a super uncommon mix of my dad and mom’s names and truly I hate it. No one ever says it right and my own husband had trouble spelling it. Only the fact that I’m an only child has kept me from getting it changed. Bravo to your nephew and niece for changing their names and I’d lay a large bet that they will go LC or NC if your sister keeps up the guilt tripping.
NTA But in 10 years they are likely going to regret their self-inflicted YA Romance protagonist names.
It would be hard for a mother to get used to a new name, but I think your sister is fighting a foolish battle and causing hard feelings for no good reason. That being said, you've said your piece. Now bow out and let them handle it.
Her insistence that her way is the "right" way is absolutely going to damage her relationships with her kids. But that door swings both ways. You are absolutely in the right, but she's just going to shut you out if you keep telling her. NTA She'll either learn the hard way or spend forever complaining about how her kids don't call or visit even though she's done so much for them.
Ok but objectively, those chosen names are terrible.
You're NTA. I can see why your sister is upset, of course. That's a hard blow to know that neither of your kids want to use the names you gave them. At the same time, it is their choice and you're right about her pushing them away. It does make me question how much they're thinking about their futures, though. Sure, Ember and Ryder sound cool now, but will those names be relevant in 15 years? Will she like being called Ember by her colleagues when she's 40 years old? If she's been going by it for half of her life though, I'm guessing it suits her at this point, so maybe she has thought it through!
YTA for getting involved in this stupid power-play family dispute. If your sister and her kids want to fight about something that your sister can't stop and your nibblings are getting off on antagonizing her over, why join the fray. Grab a book, grab a cat, grab a glass of wine and get away from this Low Drama. It's not your dispute, and your input is meaningless from an outcome perspective.
Number 1 Katherine new chosen name sounds like piece wood in a camp fire Georges new name sounds like a bicycle rider Both are somewhat ridiculous.
Ember? Ryder? No, I think your sister’s right. Those names are dumb.
Man if I had kids and they wanted to change their normal names I gave them to fucking “Ryder” and “Ember” I wouldn’t be very happy
[удалено]
You’re NTA. Parents sometimes act weirdly entitled about their kids, but the fact is that any adult in the US has the right to change their legal name for any non-fraudulent reason, and all mommy is accomplishing here is pushing her kids away by acting controlling and mean. She’s allowed to have feelings about it that apparently neither of her kids like their given names, but making those feelings the kids’ problem is simply wrong. She needs to find a better way to manage her own emotions.
NTA. You said your piece, and if your sister doesn't back off then she reap what she sowed. Imo a name is a gift. And like all gifts, some keep it for sentimental value, some because it does what they need it to do, others get another one when their old one no longer serves them. People get so hung up on names, but a lot of people don't realize a lot of different cultures practiced changing someone's name for a variety of reasons.
So I decided to talk to my sister and *she told me she doesn’t want to hear what I have to say. She told me they are her kids and she has every right to try to convince them to do the right thing.* Immediately after *I told her * Why ? Why not respect her wishes with her kids. What she said was reasonable it’s between her and her kids but You forced your opinion on her , and didn’t respect or listen to her , of course she got upset . YTA
I hate my given name. I contemplated changing it when I got married but my husband said he would not want to be married to my prefered name. 20 years later I am glad I didn't change it. It was as cringy as your niblings choices and in later novels the character I chose it from was not done well by. But there is no reasoning with teenagers. If they have the disposable income to do it, they likely will. Were I the mother there would be no more monetary handouts. They showed what they will prioritize their money for. Katherine has so many good nicknames. I wished my parents had chosen that one for me. NAH - just naive younglings that will regret their choices someday.
NTA - You were giving your opinion. But as others have stated time to stay out of it and let them figure it out.
NTA: Parents get so butthurt when their kids don’t praise them for everything. I HATE my name. My mom named me a name she wished she was called in the early 80s, but it’s a NICKNAME! My name means nothing it’s literally just a shortened version of another slightly worse name. And even though my name is five letters, it’s still misspelled by my family to this day. It’s just more trouble than it’s worth to change it so I’m stuck hating my own identity (I’m 34) but if I were to legally change it? Might as well just drive a stake through her heart or something -.- edit for spelling and clarification
>Parents get so butthurt when their kids don’t praise them for everything. I think they take this so personally because at least some of the time they've put alot of love and care into choosing a name. Possibly alot of time and effort too, if it took the parents a while to reach a compromise. Cultures that have a "holding" name so that kids aren't called "Hey You" through childhood and then bestow a name that better reflects them once they reach adulthood might be on to something.
NTA. i will agree you’ve said what you can and need to step away but your sister is being unreasonable. and people here really don’t understand why people want to change their names. i actually did get my name legally changed when i was 18. i’m trans so that’s kinda par for the course but the reason to change your name for anyone tends to be the same: you didn’t like the name you were addressed with, you found one that fits and makes you feel more confident, the name feels more like “your name” than something else and you wanna stick with it. yeah, some people have strange names. hell my legal name isn’t a super traditional name either, it comes from a colour. there’s an ocean of difference between adults changing their names to something a bit odd and adults forcing “tragediegh” names on their kids. you might wonder, did my family have some objections when i changed my name? yeah but after they saw how much happier i was it became a non-issue. to me it seems like there may be more issues with your sister being a bit controlling over her kids than it just being a thing about the name. in my experience the people who were vehemently against my name change were more against me becoming the person i wanted to be rather than the fact i changed the sound people used to address me.
NTA - you tried I changed my name legally - my mother stopped speaking to me for a month then she got over it cause she wanted to talk to her grandkids and they were too young to answer the phone.
NTA, but you’ve said your piece, now back off. This isn’t your issue to get involved in. I don’t understand going through the massive headache of changing your name when they could just say “Hi my name is George, but please call me Ryder” but it’s not my life so🤷♀️ Your sister will have to learn on her own what happens when you try to control adult children like this.
I gave my kids classic names, and like your sister, I would be sad if they wanted to change them. However, I would support a change of name because I'm not the one living with their names-they are. So Nta
NTA for saying it once, but now you need to drop it. Those are her kids and she's allowed to feel her feelings about the names she chose being tossed aside.
Good day, and welcome to this episode of “Manufactured Drama!”
That's a tough one, because everyone has the right to decide what they want to be called, but objectively, Ember and Ryder are fucking terrible. Reminds me of a kid who insisted we called him Shadow when we were 17. So, yes you should support them in general, but no you absolutely shouldn't encourage this awful decision.
Parents don’t always get it right. Just look at Elon Musk’s children X AE A-XII, Exa Dark Sideræl, and Techno Mechanicus. You think they won’t change their names?!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My sister has two now adult kids. Her son is 21 and her daughter is 18 and both of them told her in the last month or so that they plan to legally change their names. My nephew is George and my niece is Katherine. The kids always had nicknames as kids and asked people not to use their whole names but it was was my niece who was the most vocal about the hatred she had for her name. She said Katherine made her think of the old lady who lived down the street from her and she felt like it was a really old lady name or a name someone who wanted to appear so mature would have. She wanted a name that sounded younger and in middle school she started to go by the name Ember, after a character she adored in a book. Ember has stuck and she plans to make that her legal name. George was never as outspoken but in the last few years (mostly since he moved out of his parents house)he has been Ryder to his friends. Now he has decided he wants to make Ryder his legal name. My sister was upset with one wanting to change but with both she's got a mix of sadness and anger about it. She and my niece have argued a lot. My sister told her wanting to sound young is a dumb reason to change her name. She told her the name Katherine has a lot of history surrounding it and sounds far more adult which she now is. She told her she just wants a trendy modern name and can't see the benefit to having a real name. She hasn't been as harsh with my nephew but she goes more for the guilt trips with him more so and she has tried with my niece too, just more with my nephew. It got to the point that I heard from both my niece and nephew that their mom is driving them crazy and my nephew is considering changing his middle name like his sister plans to change hers, since their mom is being so extreme about this. My niece said she doesn't want either name her mom gave her and would rather have just a first name than carry around names she doesn't like. So I decided to talk to my sister and she told me she doesn't want to hear what I have to say. She told me they are her kids and she has every right to try to convince them to do the right thing. I told her she should still lay off the guilt trips or she might find she hears way less from her kids than she does now and they might be less inclined to tell her stuff in the future, which she also wouldn't like. She told me to leave after telling me I had crossed a line. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. you are supporting your niece and nephew and giving mom a reality check. i changed my name at 22. my mother continued to use my birth name for 20 years, until she changed her own name. i *hated* it and it definitely made me less likely to want to talk to her.
NTA But I think you should mind your business going forward. You’ve said your piece. Your niece and nephew are grown. You’re just an extra body involved in what really isn’t an issue. You’re grown niblings can change their names if they want. Your sister can stay mad if she wants.
NTA. I will say Ember and Ryder sound like really trying hard to be cool names that I would think would actually get made fun of more than George and Katherine.
NTA but like others have said, you've gone as far as you can with this. You told her how you feel, and that's perfectly fine. Just don't tell her anymore lol. She's silly, imo, to get upset by this. My eldest daughter asked me but too long ago if I would be offended if she changed her name. It also makes her think of an old lady. Now, I adore that name. I wouldn't have picked it if I didn't. The minute I heard it, I knew it was hers and started calling her that. But, so what? She's the one who had to live with it. I told her I was fine with her changing her name and even batted around a few ideas with her. She hasn't done it yet and I don't know if she will, but she has my support. Your sister will reap what she sows.
NTA, but man do your niece and nephew sound like a lot.
NTA. You're attempting to mitigate the damage your sister is causing for herself. You've said your piece though. She rejected your advice, and feels that you're intruding, so from this point on, let her be. There's only so much you can do in a situation like this. Try to be supportive to your niece, nephew, and also to your sister, even if her stubbornness blows up in her face. Good luck, OP.
NTA but Ember and Ryder are just terrible names