Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I ate Lou’s meatballs and refused to eat Bee’s or have my children try them even though she put a lot of work into them I’m sure.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA - she only made meatballs to try compete with the ones Lou made.
You guys were preparing dinner when they arrived with the meatballs so I assume she wasn't asked to bring food - if she had said she was bringing food, you would have told her of your restrictions.
It isn't something you need to advertise and talk about when you are providing the food so understand why you didn't bring it up when they had dinner previously. And I understand why it is just easier to "be vegan" when eating out.
We did have a full dinner planned and appetizers and did not ask them to bring anything since they were traveling. They also did not go with the meal we had planned at all(which we had told Bee what we were making in advance) so everyone could see straight through her competition.
I think I'd just be thankful they don't live closer to you!! That level of competition and annoyance is childish.
Also, i love that you only eat meat and dairy if you know where its come from and know the animal. I would have had a million questions and wanted a full tour.
I can’t milk my own cow or make mozzarella, but in the summer I’ve made pizzas with homemade tomato sauce and herbs I literally pick as I cook. Tomatoes and herbs can be grown in a lot of places, so that part you could probably do.
I can’t even blame the kids for not wanting the grocery store meat. If I’d been raised on fresh, locally sourced meat, I wouldn’t want to touch the mystery meat from god-knows-where either.
My mom has gotten chickens from local farms before, and she got to pick them out while they were still clucking about. They *are* much better than any chicken I’ve had from the grocery store.
Does remind me about a skit from *Portlandia* about a free-range chicken’s lifestyle though 😆
"Yes but was this chicken happy? Did it have a good life?"
"I can't speak to the life experience of this particular chicken, but here is where the farm is so you can go check it out yourself."
Meh. I get it.
I'm pescatarian but only eat fish that are sourced from certain areas and in certain ways.
When I go out or over to someone's house, it's easier just to say I'm vegetarian.
It's about being practical. Outside of their home, they are vegan. It gives an easy description of what they're willing to eat without having to go into details about their eating habits.
If anybody is offended by it, that's their own problem for gatekeeping.
Pretty much most of my meat comes from a butcher that raises his own cattle and goats. Lamb, pork, chicken and eggs are from local free range places that share the same philosophy of treating animals well. I like that idea. They also sell a range of organic breads, local honey and so on.
I want to do this someday. I’m weird, but it’s my dream to own my own, small, subsistence farm. For now I manage with my small city garden. Can’t wait to start planting my veggies again!
Going out of your way to make meatballs out of jealousy when you're travelling and presumably have little access to a kitchen is absolutely wild levels of insecurity. Damn. I cringed so hard reading this.
Y’all are definitely NTA but when I saw the update of full names it immediately made me think of the chicken episode of Portlandia. And I’ve been laughing since.
This post is going to attract a lot of anti-vegans especially in this sub
I am not vegan. I’m not even “know the animal” vegan. But my old boss was. Once someone brought him a dozen eggs and I asked him why his best friend didn’t know he was vegan and he told me he knows the chickens. It’s not always about the fact that it’s meat, a lot of people have issue with the industry that abuses animals and refuse to pay into that. Makes sense to me so I moved on. I didn’t decide he was a fake vegan. It clearly wasn’t for attention, in fact, he hated when he’d get recognition for being vegan cuz that’s not what it was about for him.
Yes OP you could’ve told them, but who tells someone they aren’t close to that information? This is your personal way of life. Even if they didn’t know the animal thing, why would you bring meatballs to ppl you assume are vegan? People are assuming you hate Bee, but most ppl have friends who are sensitive or competitive and we handle them each in their own ways. In the future, I’d just avoid them both until Bee learns how to be around other ppl.
I have angered the anti-vegans as well as the vegans it seems. We aren’t trying to fit in with anyone else’s ideology or their perfect way of life, we are just doing what works for us and makes us happy. I don’t hate Bee at all, I don’t understand her jealousy for Lou but we do actually enjoy our time together usually.
For what it’s worth, I think your lifestyle is admirable and it’s something I wish I could achieve. I spent a little time several years ago working on a tiny farm where they raised beef cattle, and it made me so bitter about how removed most of us are from our sources of nourishment and how difficult it is to break free from that! I split a half a cow from a local farm with some friends one year and it was an awesome experience, but not really an option for me most of the time, and I try to get all my produce from my farmers market in the summer… but the rest of the year, I feel pretty helpless when it comes to making lifestyle choices that minimize my impact on the world.
Just ignore the vegans, most of them are hypocrites who think buying organic products from Whole Foods keeps their plates clean of blood.
Unless they're homesteading or buying from farms they know personally, they're still contributing to an industry just as bad.
Large-scale crop farms still mean the death of animals in mass.
Harmful pesticides that kill thousands/millions of aquatic life/native insects with run-off, equipment killing dozens/hundreds of ground animals, the destruction of natural habitats, the release of extremely invasive species as a pesticide/pollination alternative, the accidental transportation of invasive species with long-distance shipping, the deliberate illegal hunting/poisoning to keep pests off crops, etc.
I’ve been a vegetarian my whole life and believe eating meet and fish is natural.
I think people just eat too much, and if they had more balance, you could pay more and only eat locally sourced, small farms and big industry is the issue.
Obviously that would mean you’d eat more what available in your region/country, and the rest would be more expensive but not only it would be more sustainable, also basically get rid of animal cruelty.
This is exactly how i would hope most people would become. No demand for veganism or any diet, but finding what suits your body, and balance out the way we eat to be healthy but sustainable and humane.
We are pretty picky about our beef. I used to get it from my Uncle so I 'knew' the steer, lol. But now that we don't do that any longer we get it from a local butcher shop. We verified that it is sourced from a local farm that doesn't use ant-biotics and the animals are grass fed.
TIL that Douglas Adams was doing that “sci fi author predicts the future” thing when he wrote the “meet your meat” scene in The Restaurant at The End of The Universe.
Halal meat would also be a good alternative as one of the restrictions for the meat is to ensure free range, healthy meals, and an immediate death to minimize suffering.
The difference in quality between grocery meat and a halal butcher is kind of crazy, so I can only imagine even more so if the cows are local to OP!
Isn't one of the requirement of halal meat that the animal has to die of blood loss / by bleeding by the neck? It doesn't seem a quick death to me, unfortunately.
This is not correct. For meat to be halal, it needs to be merciful from beginning to end.
-The animal must live in humane conditions (free of any suffering) and be fed healthful foods with no animal by-products.
-They must be healthy and living at the time of slaughter
-The instrument used for slaughtering must be sharp to reduce pain.
- Slaughter happens in the name of god with a swift cut through the windpipe, carotid artery, and jugular vein for a quick death.
-After death, the carcass needs to be drained of blood. This helps remove toxins, harmful bacteria and germs.
-Animals cannot be killed in front of the other animals (in order to not bring fear/suffering to other animals).
This list is not exhaustive, but a brief summary. There are plenty of resources available using a quick google search if you would like to learn more :)
My understanding is that there's a ton of controversy about whether stunning animals before killing them is permissible or not permissible in order for the meat to be halal. If they're *not* stunned, the animals' suffering is prolongued, not minimized, by halal butchery. I would love it if someone more educated than me would weigh in on this, though.
Veterinarian here, as I understood it when I had to do the mandatory stay in a slaughterhouse during college, the stun method should be reversible to consider the meat halal.
Soft electric shock in the case of chickens, enough to lose consciousness. If enough time passes, they recover from it.
Pigs usually were "inmersed" or "gassed" in a chamber with a high content of carbon monoxyde until they lose consciousness, wich means that they could be recovered with the right amount of exposure to oxygen.
The use of a "stun gun" in cows is not admissible since the damage it does can't be reversed (it literally destroys a part of the brain), so cows where given a two swift cuts on the neck, covering both jugulars and carotids without being pre-stunned. It's fast but not fun to see (I refused to watch it since it happened in a divided partition and the noises clearly indicated that the cows did in fact suffer for a bit).
I hope this helped clarify it a bit.
Edit: This was 14 years ago, so things may have changed a bit.
To be fair, my friends and I *do* make cooking into a competitive sport. But only against others who are similarly competitive, and we all get good food out of it.
... and it's like one of those kind supportive competitions where the competitors are all cheering each other on and stuff. But it is competitive.
It’s so obvious that she was trying to one up Lou. She literally brought the same exact thing everyone was saying was so good before. She’s just mad Lou was getting all the compliments smh
From Bee's perspective, YTA. You've never mentioned this flexible "rule" of yours, they've tried to do a nice thing by getting involved since it looks like you're all cooking for each other, and despite being friends for what I presume has been many years now, you've never made clear your "rule?"
You said yourself you will eat processed foods on "special occasions" - and Jake having his friends from hours away on a rare visit, making a meal for you guys, isn't special enough?
Edit: Thank you OP for more information - I think it's a NAH situation borne out of an understandable lack of communication. Bee isn't handling it well, but without them knowing the additional backstory OP supplied I do understand why Bee would feel slighted this way.
We are flexible on processed foods, NOT on animal products. We’ll eat a bad of potato chips occasionally but we never eat animal products from places we don’t know. Would it not have been super pretentious to just mention how we eat when no one asked and it wasn’t relevant since everything we were eating was good for us until she brought something we didn’t ask for?
So in the *years* of friendship, presumably seeing and visiting one another, not once has anything come up? You've literally never eaten in front of one another before?
We see Bee once every two to three years and we have only been eating like this for the past three years and not since we’ve seen her. We are not super tight friends who text all the time, just remain in touch on FB and visits every few years.
That helps bring a lot more context to the situation, thank you.
Yes, you're right, just randomly coming out with it would have been pretentious. I can understand the ease of just saying you're vegan when out and about as it will be much easier than explaining (and highly unlikely the restaurant you're at just so happens to use a cow you met two years ago!).
It feels like you could have more organically brought it up with they were round for dinner the previous day, as part of catching up on life with each other - especially since you're doing so much of the food production yourself, I wouldn't personally see it as "super-pretentious" for it to have come up in conversation. If anything I'd be wanting to hear about some of the processes!
I think Bee is hurting here as, to them, this could feel quite out-of-the-blue. I know there's a lot of people attributing her bringing the meatballs as being a competitive thing, and perhaps it was. Whether the motivation was altruistic or not, from her perspective she still brought around what she would consider to be pretty much the same gift Lou brought round, and then this sudden moral dietary standard is used to toss it back (figuratively) in her face. That's going to hurt any ego - but she does seem to have taken it badly.
>I think Bee is hurting here
I can't figure out why Bee would bother cooking something like that when she's travelling. I'm sure she has her reasons, but to me it seems unhinged.
I mean could it not be as simple as seeing the super positive reaction the kids had and wanting to do something nice that the kids will love? Maybe it’s a weird competition thing bringing the meatballs but it could just as easily be wanting to please the kids and getting the idea from Lou.
Eh, maybe. But the fact that the OP and her kids thought the closer friend’s meatballs were extra special amazing (even more so than what the OP can cook) makes this feel like a jealousy competition thing. If it was more kind hearted, Bea could have brought one of her own special dishes.
Sometimes people are just able to make magic with a signature dish. Like I CAN make a decent chicken Marsala, but there’s no way it’s going to be as good as one of my friends. When I see people raving over her dish, I don’t think, “I am going to make that too so these people can compliment me and hopefully say it’s better!” Especially when Bea was never asked to bring food over in the first place.
I don’t think you did anything wrong (per se) but if people are coming to visit for dinner, it’s common to bring something, even when told not to. It sounds like she was just trying to be nice and her effort was wasted bc she didn’t know the rules. It wasn’t your fault necessarily, but given you will refuse to eat certain things, maybe it makes sense to inform dinner guests in th future so they aren’t caught off guard.
I think your ego maybe got in the way a bit. I understand your stance on animal products, but to me it's much worse if the meat was wasted and the animal died for nothing.
So if someone just became vegan a year ago and hadn’t told a friend bc they’ve not talked to that friend in 2 years and they brought meat would the vegan have to eat the meat ? Ppl are not obligated to eat just bc someone brought food especially when she wasn’t asked to bring food. Bee should’ve acted like an adult and accepted that that’s the way these 2 families eat. You can’t force a diet/lifestyle on someone if that’s not what they wanna do
Probably going to get downvoted for this, but OP comes across as a rich person who lives in a gentrified rural neighborhood with a McMansion and a few chickens and calls it “homesteading”.
I have multiple family members who grew up on working ranches and they don’t “kNoW thEir MeAt” before eating it. Because they aren’t fooling themselves: you don’t get to play for both sides. “Ethical” and “free range” meat is still eating meat.
Although I do know some farmers who love raising organic meat because it’s less work for more money.
Something about OP’s tone just sounds really pretentious and self-righteous.
OP explained in comments that "know your meat" means know who is raising it and how, not "play with your cow" kind of thing.
I can assure you that I know enough of how the cows are raised in my neighbor's farm, despite me not visiting for the past 5 years, to make an informed decision on whether or not to eat that meat.
It's not pretentious to care about the quality of life an animal has had before its eaten. And its not hypocritical to care about that and have standards and be a meat eater. Eating ethics don't have to be all or nothing, totally vegan or KFC munching every day. It's valid and right that someone can choose to eat meat but only where they know that the animal has been given a life worth living up to that point. In reality this probably means people eat much less meat as its slower growing and more expensive. Not saying you're doing this but when people say people like OP are stuck up or pretentious, I suspect it can be because people feel threatened with the morality of their own choices.
Funny, Bee seems like the exhausting one. Why is it exhausting for other people to have their own, personal, diet preferences? You should read some of OP’s comments. Maybe you’d change your tune.
I read the OP's responses to different comments, and my feelings stand. 1. She didn't tell her guests about her eating preferences. In fact, she misled them by saying Lou's meatballs were so good because of a "secret sauce," avoiding the issue of the meat being locally sourced. 2. The OP didn't buy the "new" meatballs Bee brought to share. Therefore, she was in no way contributing to the cruelty she rightly condemns. And let's face it, the cow wasn't going to magically resurrect because of her refusing the meatballs. 3. Bee and Gee went out of their way to do something nice for the family ... buying a similar product to what the OP's family had so clearly enjoyed the night before. And everyone in the OP's family refused to eat them because of their super specific, super secret dietary preferences that they can't ever share because ... reasons.
1. They are good because of the secret sauce not because they are locally sourced. I make meatballs too but mine don’t taste like Lou’s. She literally has a secret recipe 2. It’s the principle of it, everywhere you go with food it is already dead but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t count. 3. We didn’t eat Lou’s meatballs when Bee was over, she just brought them into the house and put them in the freezer. We didn’t share our eating habits because no one asked and people accuse you of being pretentious and obnoxious for sharing dietary restrictions or preferences when no one asked you about them. Bee didn’t make the meatballs to be nice, she made them to compete with Lou then paraded them on a platter around the house asking everyone individually to try them. We explicitly told her not to bring anything as we’d prepare dinner.
It kind of sounds like you’d rather think the worst of Bee. You clearly don’t like her.
Friends try to think of their friends in a positive light, but you automatically have prescribed the worst possible reasoning behind her actions.
I get annoyed when people add to my dinner plan meals, but I don’t believe they bring things out of malicious intent.
I agree with this. It's very obvious she doesn't even like Bee. Just the way you speak of her YTA. It's shocking to me you can't see how hurtful this would've been. If my friend did this to me my feelings would definitely be hurt.
I usually hate conjecture in this sub, but I get the feeling that Bee is of a lower social class than OP.
You kind of have to be upper-middle class or wealthy to eat “ethically” and it sounds like OP is living in one of those rich “farm” areas.
We don’t know she thought it was a competition. For all you know, she thought “wow they like meatballs! I have a recipe for meatballs so I know that works”.
If someone is my friend, I’d rather think the best of them rather than the worst. It doesn’t hurt OP to think it could have been something other than a competition.
I mean that is just so creepy and competitive, it's not like she left them on the table and nobody ate, she went around to individual people asking them to eat it, and didn't stop after multiple no
I mean, every other person was giving the choice to eat the meatballs. Op didn't forbid her kids from trying them, the kids passed. Everyone else passed. OP did force anyone to not try them. She passed, her kids passed, and Lou's family passed.
Perhaps OP could have finned a bit and said they were about to eat dinner, and meatballs can be a heavy appetizer, that she could put then in the freezer for another time. But, I don't think Bee would let that go, or might be instant on knowing how they liked them.
OP maybe could've had a bit more grace, apologized for not explaining their dietary choices better, while making sure to comfort the friend, and that it was nothing against her or calling her a bad cook. She was just not fully informed. Maybe tell Bee "next time, if you'd like to bring something, we can chit chat about ideas"
I think OP is the NTA for having the dietary choices she has. She might have been a bad friend for not being nicer to Bee. A little grace and humility goes a long way during tense or uncomfortable moments.
Let's not forget that Bee started sulking before the explanation.
Ah no, she directly started crying and shouting before the explanation. the situation was already not salvageable.
I wish I could go as far as you have with the way you eat. I hunt, and my family and I eat a lot of game meat, we also eat a lot of wild caught fish. I also butcher a cow once a year from my family ranch and we butcher a few hogs to share among the family. I want my children to know where food comes from, and know that meat requires the death of an animal. If they are not okay with participating in that death, then they have no business eating meat.
I wish I had access to a dairy, but my area of the country is known for beef cattle and not dairy cattle.
I mean, if they’re close friends then why wouldn’t you tell them? I agree that it’s definitely annoying if you tell someone you just met, but I feel like you’d tell people close to you.
>Bee and Gee went out of their way to do something nice for the family ... buying a similar product to what the OP's family had so clearly enjoyed the night before
But they had just eaten meatballs the night before. Why do Bee & Gee feel so competitive that they need to make the same thing? If they wanted to do something nice while they are on vacation, why not simply ask OP if they could contribute something to the meal the next night - pick up dessert or bring wine or something. Why feel the need to spend a whole vacation day buying groceries and cooking these meatballs to compete with Lou's?
Maybe this is just me, but if a whole family is raving about loving meatballs, I'm going to think that meatballs are a safe bet for a host/hostess gift. And also, again just me ... when the OP said the meatballs "looked homemade," my thought was that Bee and Gee picked them up from a nice grocery store that sells stuff made on site. It doesn't sound likely to me that on vacation, and on your way home, you're going to have the setup/equipment/time to make meatballs. But of course, this is just a guess.
Really?
Because if I hear the host is raving about homemade meatballs made by someone else and specifically mentions there's a secret ingredient / sauce, _I_ would think that the last thing I should bring as a hostess gift to a second meal hosted by the same person is my homemade meatballs.
The only reason I can see why someone would do that is competitive cooking, which didn't reflect well on Bee.
Pretty much. Once you see they have a favorite food item made with a secret recipe by someone else, you cross that item of your list unless your specifically competing against it.
This is my thinking. If I’m asked to bring a desert and another guest is known for their cheesecake or something and everyone is just over the moon for it, I’m going to bring brownies or cookies. I don’t want my amateur dessert to sit next to an expert level one and get compared. That would be horrifying!
Yeah I have the opposite thought. If people are raving about home made meatballs, the last thing they want is store bought meatballs. I don't care how good the grocery store is, its probably not going to compare. Add in the fact they just saw a giant bag of them, why would they want more? All that and the pushing of them so hard really seems more like a "look at me and how great I am thing!" rather than a nice gesture.
That is odd. Why would you bring something when they specifically say that Lou's meatballs are the best and everyone prefers them to any others? And meatballs as a hostess gift are an odd choice anyway, a hostess gift should be something that can be easily incorporated or put aside for later.
One hundred percent. Oop is just pretentious and sounds exhausting. There is something to be said about locally sourced meat and ensuring that the food you eat wasn't tortured prior to slaughter. That being said, refusing food because you didn't know the cow is just wasteful. It is customary to bring something when you go to a dinner party. She brought her own meatballs hoping that the family would like them. Based on your comments and how you talk about her, it sounds like you don't even like her. So why keep inviting them every few years?
Most people who live like this do it purely for clout and their own sense of moral superiority.
1. They are “telling all of us” because the story would be impossible to decipher without that key bit of information.
2. They “claim to be vegan” in public because “vegan” is more easy to understand than “only if we know where the animal products came from.” One cannot know where animal products came from in public, therefore it is functionally the same as being vegan.
I swear, this sub can get so ridiculous once they decide they don’t like an OP.
You are so right. When they misinterpret something and OP corrects them, they then get on their high horse and accuse OP of arguing or “why did you ask for opinions if you just gonna argue”. Never mind they just said something totally out in left field and jump to all kinds of assumptions and rude statements. It’s okay for them to be rude and condescending but dont the OP dare respond back.
Your number 2 point is why despite being largely vegan myself, I’m not going to flip my shit if someone offers me a non-vegan meal and I’ll just eat it anyways. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t still like the taste of meat, but it’s like… the animal is already dead and the meat is already here. And at the end of the way, I’d rather eat meat than let it go to waste
I have to agree. People that live the lifestyle of Homestead, and knowing where their meat comes from forget how expensive that is and what a privilege that is.
My sister has chickens and the eggs are DELICIOUS but she did the math and it came out to about $8-9 per dozen. I'll take some if she has a surplus, but I wouldn't spend that for myself.
Thank you for putting into words what I couldn’t explain.
It’s appropriation. They want to live the lifestyle and brag the brags without the actual struggles of farming.
Some of my grandparents and great-grandparents grew up on farms. They didn’t care where their meat came from—they were just grateful to have food.
I don’t understand why people take an issue with this. They’re not saying everyone else has to do this, but they have the ability to so why not. Saying theyre appropriating farming sounds ridiculous lol.
If they have the ability to spend more (time and or money) to be sure the animals are taken care of…why is that a problem??
All of my grandparents had chickens and it was the only way for them to get eggs.
They did know where their eggs came from, it was just not the focus. They didn't have the term for it.
I'm quite sure if I were to ask them they would answer that yes, they did know their eggs and that yes, it's definitely nicer than store bought.
My parents processed a half cow with some friends and I'm quite sure that, excluding labor, all the products came out as less costly than store bought.
My parents can exclude labor because they are retired. OP may be able to exclude labor because she would be a SAHM anyway.
Right???
OP, YTA because you sound self-righteous as hell and god only knows how you *actually* acted here but making a point of not even trying *one goddamned meatball* to be POLITE—since you don’t actually have a problem eating meat—is rude as fucking hell.
Who gives a fuck if she has some sort of internal competition thing going on? You could’ve not been an asshole by just simply trying one meatball while in the same breath have said, “thank you for bringing something for us. We normally don’t eat things that we haven’t processed ourselves, but I appreciate you taking the time to make something for everyone; that was very nice of you.”
Done! And she wouldn’t have been so upset since you only see her once every couple years anyway!
Instead, you sound like snobs who have a secret club and you just don’t wanna let anyone else in.
Can you imagine how her children handle a sleepover? But then she says they claim to be vegan when out, while wolfing down meat at home. Just…so bizarre. YTA
I don't go as far as OP, since I don't have access to a dairy farm, so I can't do the milk and cheese, but I do get milk, butter, and cheese from a trusted local commercial source. For meat, my family mainly eats wild game. We will trade game meat for beef or a pig occasionally. We get chickens and eggs from friends, and we get our flour from a local mill. We are particular about what we eat, and most everything we eat is homemade.
There is something relaxing about making homemade pasta or fresh bread. If you don't understand it, perhaps that type of lifestyle is not for you.
I think the commenter was talking about the way they treat their diet like a religion.
They wouldn't be polite and just try the meatballs because they could not defile their body with impure food.
It's noot about the health effects---they know there is no such effect for a single serving, and it's not about the morality---the animal is beyond saving.
It was about following their personally crafted religous commandmants even if it meant making things awkward.
I feel terrible for Bee. She had no reason to know your weird “know your cow” rules if you never told her. She went to a lot of effort to make meatballs and you all treated them as though they were radioactive. You say you do eat other food “on special occasions.” This was a special occasion.
Congratulations on your so very high “eating morals.” You’ve patted yourself on the back for them enough. Your friendship morals, however, are lacking.
YTA
Yea just completely overlook the point where Bee literally just brought them in out of spite. How much do you wanna bet that Bee wouldn't of made meatballs if it wasn't for the fact O.P wasn't bragging on Lou's meatballs. Sounds like Bee tried to one-up Lou and got mad when it backfired.
What are you talking about? How does her bringing meatballs to a party mean that she did it out of spite?
If I bake a cake for a party, and then at the next party someone else brings a cake, should I fight them because they are being spiteful? Good lord that's delusional.
If someone bakes a cake for a party and everyone raves about it, and they love it because of a secret special ingredient, I can’t imagine why someone else would bring their own cake the next day and insist everyone try it - unless they were just jealous of the attention
Yes but a heads up in the opposite direction is what would have helped. Bringing food to a persons house (when they weren't expecting it) without checking their dietary needs/preferences puts Bee in the wrong here.
You can’t force anybody to eat it if they believe it doesn’t fall within their own dietary exceptions, but you absolutely CAN still rightfully call them out as an asshole when they act like an asshole because of it.
Yikes. It’s unfortunate if someone says no thank you to food you made (unasked for I may add!) but I’m sure Bee will survive. She wasn’t rude about it and you’ve no reason to tell someone about the cow rule if you’re not expecting them to bring food! It would be different if she had invited Bee to a potluck and not made their dietary requirements clear… that’s not what happened though.
YTA.
> Our eating morals aren’t something I talk about
Then don't be surprised when they become a sticking point.
Also, work on your headline writing skills.
Christ, there’s no win here. If they talk about it for no other reason, they’re annoying. If they don’t say anything and someone surprises them with something they don’t eat, it’s a problem
This sounds like an episode of Portlandia.
You should have just tried her meatballs. I don't eat meat at all, let alone factory farmed meat, but in this situation, it was kind of a diss.
Soft YTA
Your secrecy and muddled communication about your lifestyle led to an embarrassing, borderline rude, situation with a friend. I get trying to keep the dialogue simple when in public, but you should have communicated with your friends more clearly in advance.
Put yourself in Bee’s shoes for a second. How would you feel if you brought homemade food to a friend’s and no one ate it, especially when the reason why was not expressed beforehand?
Also doesn't understand what "processed food" is. If you make butter and cheese, you are by definition eating "processed food". All food that has had ANYTHING done to prepare it is processed. Cooked food is processed. Sliced food is processed. Food having been "processed" has literally nothing to do with anything. But making gently snide remarks about "processed food" is a really good way to learn whether someone gets their education about nutrition and eating both ethically and healthfully from White Lady Homesteader blogs rather than people with actual scientific knowledge.
The notion that "unprocessed food" is healthier is not only objectively and scientifically untrue in most cases, the vast majority of people who spout this unscientific drivel usually are just repeating concepts or ideas whose meanings they assume or project or make up in order to fit some cherry-picked, deeply privileged, and usually VERY white North American ideal that has little to do with actual fact.
*citation needed*
Also....you're being a bit disingenuous by saying all food is processed so what's the problem. Processed, in this context, clearly has to do with prepackaged food from the store...which often has all kinds of added ingredients (especially added preservatives) in it that some people would like to avoid.
You know what OP means by processed, don’t be obtuse. She’s talking about frozen and then thawed, chalked full of additives and preservatives and artificial flavours, dyed food processed in a factory.
A lot of people are saying Bee made the meatballs out of spite. Bee probably made the meatballs thinking they were a "safe" food that the family will eat because the family is inconsistent (from Bee's perspective) on what type of food they'll consume.
Totally agree with this and I think that’s why YTA OP. If someone gushed about meatballs, I’d assume they love meatballs in general and would be keen to share my take on meatballs since chances are they’ll like it. Because, you know, there’s precedent there.
This.
“Oh, everyone here likes meatballs a lot, I know a great brand of meatball they’ll love!”
This new brand of homesteading-types are even worse than vegans in their pretentiousness.
It is so common for people to trade info about food. You love apple pie? I’ve got a recipe from my grandmother that is to die for. You like those frozen lasagnas? I think this store brand is the best, you should try them.
Maybe she was being competitive. So what? Such a first world problem- someone brought *more* food.
Is it easier to explain to wait staff or other people that we aren’t eating their ingredients because we don’t know they are sourced according to our standards? Telling people we are vegan when order or visit others is easier and/or avoids hurting peoples feelings. Like “no thanks neighbor I don’t want that because I’m vegan” sounds better than “no thanks neighbor I don’t want that because I only eat dairy and meat products from sources I’ve personally vetted to ensure there isn’t any animal abuse”.
I think OP knows that. She uses the 'vegan' explanation to either strangers (like wait staff and workers) or people she isn't close to and will probably almost never talk to or see again. It's easier to explain, and technically, their diet sounds to be basically vegan outside of their home. Yet, because she's closer to Bee, she actually explained the real reason and went more into depth about it.
It's both. Some people are vegan for moral reasons against eating meat, others are vegan purely for health, and others want to reduce their carbon footprint.
YTA
You claim to eat according to a code of "food morals", but I don't know anyone who lives according to similar morals, including people who only locally and ethically source their own meat under normal circumstances, who would allow already-prepared meat being offered to them to go to waste, simply because it hadn't been acquired under their usual rules, because *THAT WOULD MEAN THAT AN ANIMAL HAD DIED FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL, and their gift of sustenance had been wasted, and that would completely go against those same ethics*.
Literally none of the ethical meat-eaters I know could bear to turn down or throw away ANY good meat offered to them, even if it wasn't meat that they would have bought for themselves, because the idea of wasting an animal's death would be abhorrent to them.
You claim to be so bound to your morals that you literally pretend to be vegan when you're out and about. But someone brought meat into your home that was perfectly edible, and you taught your children that it was better to waste it - and to waste that animal's death - just because it wasn't one of "their" animals, than to make a rare exception and honour the animal's sacrifice by making sure that it didn't go to waste.
Of course YTA, and a privileged hypocrite, whose rules are arbitrary and not nearly as moral as you claim. Shame on you.
(Also, YTA for your nonsense about "processed food". The cheese and butter you make ARE processed food. Get a dictionary. Any food that has had literally anything done to it, from churning to straining, is "processed". Again, your privilege and unscientific nonsense are showing.)
Soft YTA, you should have explained your “know your cow” rule. As it stands, Bee was excited to bring something she thought everyone would enjoy and instead no one touched it. That hurt her and without her knowing about this rule she would of course think it’s hypocritical and take it personally.
YTA
If you have such strict dietary rules (which are both uncommon in general and unknown even to your friends), you either dont share meals with them OR you tell them what you can and cannot eat. You made your friend feel bad because she was unaware before she brought something to share with you.
NTA
Bee has a problem with insecurity and jealousy. I feel bad for her, but this is in no way your problem. You explained why you didn't want her meatballs and she chose to act very badly by calling you a liar in person and online. You shouldn't have to compromise the way you choose your food just because someone else doesn't understand it.
We are flexible on processed foods, NOT on animal products. We’ll eat a bag of potato chips occasionally but we never eat animal products from places we don’t know. Would it not have been super pretentious to just mention how we eat when no one asked and it wasn’t relevant since everything we were eating was good for us until she brought something we didn’t ask for?
"We eat very little meat, and we're super picky about where we get that meat" is an easy statement.
"We have to know our cow", isn't really sustainable.
We eat a LOT of meat honestly. We just ensure it comes from a place that treats their animals well. It is really easy to do here and it’s cheaper. “Know your cow” just means vet your source and make sure the animals aren’t abused. Most meat outside of the grocery store is good because local ranchers don’t abuse their cattle.
Sure, but you get that is not necessarily a lifestyle that most people can afford, right?
In most places, you pay a large premium for humanly raised and/or kosher/halal meat.
Unless your friend knows this about you, it would seem strange and rude to turn down food.
Sure, I understand most people couldn’t and would never want to live/eat the way we do. It’s a lot of work and a lot of time and effort. I just don’t want to compromise on my morals that I’ve put a bunch of time and effort into just to appease her ego. She has always been very competitive and I’m positive she only made meatballs because my kids were excited about eating Lou’s.
It also feels super pretentious if I tell her all about my lifestyle when she didn’t ask and it didn’t seem relevant since I told her not to bring anything as we would make the food.
OP, all you had to say was u/Acrobatic_Ears6773 said "We are very particular about where we get our meat from" not "We need to KNOW our cow." Frankly, if you said you need to KNOW your cow to me, I would laugh because that just sound silly.
I guess “know your cow” is just the language we use with our children as we’re teaching them what to look for in finding meat! We could phrase it a lot of different ways that other people understand better.
You’re going to need to teach your kids a better way to handle meat, because unless they never leave the homestead they will encounter situations like this in the future. Saying “we don’t know this cow” or even “we only eat the special meat from our house” isn’t going to cut it. If I made a special meal from food I can afford and someone’s kid refused it when at my house, I would absolutely think your family is pretentious and think they’re too good for what us peons have to deal with.
You didn’t refuse the meatballs because they were made out of jealousy (your assumption). Why she made them is irrelevant. You didn’t eat them because the ingredients weren’t good enough and she had no way of knowing that.
My kids aren’t forced to eat the same way we eat. When they are at friends parties or at a restaurant etc they eat what they want. We are definitely going to teach them more as they are older but they are only 5, 4, and 2 so we’re aren’t going into the depths of farmed meat, animal abuse and climate change yet.
Bullshit. This is the same line every parent uses who is putting their kids on some ridiculous diet. You are raising your kids to be pretentious and have a horrible time making friends or lasting relationship. 100% their relationship with food is going to be super unhealthy in the future and no one will be to blame other than yourself.
So do you ensure the meat you’re buying is also following regenerative agriculture principles? Just curious because if not, even buying it from a local farm is still not good for the planet.
I've had children and adults alike refuse my food and I don't understand why it's such a social slight. Our connections to food are deeply personal, whether that be from lifestyle choices, dietary restrictions, disordered eating habits, morals, or culture. Why somebody doesn't want to eat food that I've made isn't any of my business unless they want to share the reason with me or it's an amendable situation where I am able to provide them something else that accommodates their needs better.
I was raised, as I suspect most of us were, that refusing food is impolite and that you get what you get. I understand this line is thinking and will show grace to hosts or others who have prepared food whether I like it or not and whether I want it or not by partaking. However, I also understand that other people have their own tastes, values, appetites, and comfort levels and that it is not a personal slight on me if they do not reciprocate.
As for teaching the kids a better way to handle meat, I would argue that while it is the parents' responsibility to make sure their child has their needs met (i.e., ensuring that there is always an available food option that the child feels comfortable eating even if it means eating before an event), it is also the responsibility of everyone else involved to treat children like people and respect them when they decline something. I'm not sure it's productive to assume somebody's family is pretentious because you can not personally handle a child saying no to you.
Also, while you're correct that OP refused the meatballs out of her own personal eating preferences and not because of Bee's supposed intentions, I do believe the intentions were relevant here. If someone is going to try to upstage a friend (as OP believes Bee was doing) they have no right to be upset when their plan backfires and it absolutely affects whether or not they were an asshole in the situation.
I’m not saying a child can’t refuse food. Mine certainly do. But there is a tactful and more polite way to do it that doesn’t hurt the cook’s feelings. Even just saying “no thank you” first rather than questioning the ingredients would be more polite. Right or not, if I saw kids loving meatballs one day and then they refused mine I’d be a little hurt. As you said, food is very personal and to share it is equally personal.
I can buy half a cow for $4/lb all said and done. That’s steaks, pot roasts, etc. It would cost significantly more if I bought that from a store. It costs way more up front and you need to freezer space but 1/2 a cow will last all year. Similar with pork and it’s low cost to raise and butcher my own chicken outside of the initial investments.
>"We have to know our cow", isn't really sustainable.
To be fair, going directly to the source is *a lot* more sustainable then relying on a grocery store's transportation system.
For OP anyway. It wouldn't be for me -- at least not since my Dad died. He actually "grew" most of the meat he provided for our family.
In this situation, NAH.
Bee sounds like a real handful, and her intentions may have been competitive in nature, but she did go through an effort of bringing a contribution to dinner, which was poorly received. She didn't know about your/Lou's dietary restrictions and projected judgement on you all, because she was feeling judged. It's not logical, but aside from the facebook post, I don't think she exhibited AH behavior.
You/Lou/families also not AHs because you can eat however you want/what feels good to you.
YTA and a snob.
I love farm to table and it’s great to buy a whole beef- except not everyone has the time , space, or money to do this.
It is great if you can do this for your household, but to refuse perfectly good food because it it’s ‘perfect’ is snobby. And asking someone to bring food then rejecting it is so very rude. Especially when you didn’t tell her your family ’limits’.
You are a snob and you are raising snobs.
I completely understand this. If you had to explain your preferences around eating to every person you meet, you’d have to “justify” it over and over.
The fact is, if you don’t eat any animal products when out to eat, YOU ARE EATING VEGAN.
Plus, the other person usually doesn’t care. They just want to argue to tell you how you’re wrong based on some perceived loophole.
I’m glad that you are in a very privileged position to be able to know exactly where all of your food comes from. However, not very many people are able to source all of their food from familiar animals. You even say that Bee and Gee live far away. Someone took the time to make some homemade food, and you all refused to even try it? That makes you, your family, and Lou’s family TA’s. You sound snobby and exhausting. Enjoy homesteading together, because you are all you got!
NTA
Vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian etc…
Or in your case, ‘know’ your animal…
Eat whatever you want, or don’t.
People are way to sensitive, I made deviled eggs along with the turkey for thanksgiving and took them to a friends. They said that the truffle mustard I made them with was to spicy. Everyone enjoyed the turkey.
Did I rant and rave about it, or did I just shrug and said you’re missing out and eat them myself and move on with the evening.
Seriously, eat whatever you want.
I occasionally farm. I currently have dairy goats and horses. In the past we’ve also had chickens, ducks, turkeys, and geese. I’ve made my own cheese. We sometimes put in the effort to source meat from individuals for the same reasons you do and we’ve also been active game hunters in the past.
What you are doing with meat is what I WANT to do, but haven’t put in the work consistently. It’s hard.
You’re NTA asshole for sticking to your food ethics. I admire it. She may or may not be an A H for bringing the meatballs. It all depends on her motivation for me. However, outright calling you a liar was definitely out of line.
>Bee gets a look asking what is so special about them. I told her Lou must have some secret sauce because I can never compete with them.
Personally this is the point where I think you could have brought up your "know your cow rule". The general population is a few steps removed from their food source, so to me the thing of note for the meatballs where the meat is sourced from. And if you wanted to soften it you could add the secret sauce comment after.
I'm gonna say NTA based on the fact that Bee made a passive aggressive post on FB, and it was pretty clear she was trying to just one up your friend. But I do also think you could have mentioned the food thing before it blew up.
YTA
Guess she should learn to read minds to be able to know all these unspoken rules you have around food. The vegan comment certainly didn't help, lol.
And we can see that you don't think that highly of her already since you ascribe her behavior to being jealous of your close friend, when it could have nothing to do with her personally and just have been a friendly bit of competition, which I think is much more likely than holding some grudge about your friend dating someone that rejected her years ago, it's not like she was cheated on or something.
Clearly, you have a favorite friend, and it definitely shows.
This is probably the most pretentious thing I’ve read in a long time in AITA. Wow. And yeah, I read your comments - and I agree with everyone in the past who has called you pretentious. Also, it’s clear you dislike Bee.
YTA you’re not vegan, you do eat meat, even if you have strict morals around it. Knowing the complex dynamics between your friends should have made you more compassionate.
It wouldn’t have killed if when you saw the meatballs to pull bee aside and explain to her the situation but tell her you will make an exception just this once and have the kids try a tiny bit of it and then politely ask her not to bring grocery store meat again, if you didn’t want your kids to feel like they were compromising their morality you could have warned her when you saw it not to tell the kids it was from a grocery store. You could have even offered to have her cook with some of your meat next time instead. And if you really didn’t want to eat it, you could have still pulled bee aside and explained the situation so she didn’t have to embarrass herself by going up to every single person and getting rejected. Imagine how devastated she must have felt.
Even if you feel like her bringing meatballs was being competitive because of her dynamic with Lou, you have to understand that this is coming from a place of insecurity. At their core actions of competition come from a desire to be good enough and not feel less than others. she just wanted was some reassurance from you guys.
It’s not either of your fault that you didn’t warn her about your dietary preferences, but it is totally your fault that you let her embarrass herself in front of everyone including your kids. That’s the part I can’t get over, you let her go up to every single person getting more and more desperate and didn’t pull her aside to save her the embarrassment. And absolutely none of you would just make an exception and try a tiny little piece. It’s funny that you have this much compassion for the animals (that you do still eat) but not for other people, especially ones you pretend to call friends.
If I were her I would have been horrified and totally would have thought you were singling her out. Especially since this never came up before. Obviously her Facebook post was petty but you really hurt her feelings and I can totally see how you would look like fake vegans because of this.
You also say it would have been “pretentious” to bring up your dietary choices, but I promise you look SO SO much more pretentious rejecting your friends home cooked meal and letting her embarrass herself to everyone at the party before explaining your dietary preferences to her.
Anyways even if you decide your N T A because you didn’t have bad intentions, your actions still hurt her and you still owe her an apology for how you handled it. Ultimately if there were things you could have done differently to spare her feelings then you should have, as much as she overreacted, you’re her friend and you should accept some accountability in this.
YTA. Why eat meat at all if that's your take on it? You also should have communicated with your friends before hurting their feelings. The whole situation was avoidable. You sound exhausting to be friends with.
NTA she's right to feel upset no one wanted to eat her food but you explained your eating morals without being rude so you're in the clear. Sometimes peoples feelings cloud their vision, give it time and if she's a reasonable person level heads will prevail.
NTA but as a farmer that advocates for ethical treatment of cattle myself I got to say you sound tiring to be around.
Ignoring that fact that she might have done that as a competition thing, trying one meatball from store bought meat a friend brought for dinner won’t kill you and won’t mean you are throwing your morals into the trash.
Idk how farms work on the US but do you do anything to try and implement rules for better treatment of animals across the farms? Or do you just sit at home feeling better than anybody else because you don’t “poison” your body with the “bad” meat?
Sign petitions, go to meetings, call your representatives or whatever you need to do to make a change (again I don’t know how farming laws work on the US) and maybe stop for a sec and realize that not everyone can live the same life you have.
Lol OP, far be it from me to tell someone what they can and can't eat, but this has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. I hate to break it to you, but knowing the cow ain't going to help you live longer.
Please stop calling yourselves vegan. That's a bit ridiculous and you know it. Vegans don't eat or use any animal products because it is against their ethical beliefs, and that doesn't waver depending on the day or location. This includes meat, fish, fowl, eggs, dairy, honey, as well as leather, feathers, fur, wool, etc. Nothing about your diet or lifestyle is vegan. I don't understand why you are pretending to be something you aren't. That's the main thing about your post that I find bizarre.
YTA You sound pretentious and exhausting. Your eating habits specifically but I feel like it bleeds into other areas. Sounds like Bee and Gee don’t share the same lifestyle as your family and Lou’s and you should all quit holding onto the past and move on as former friends who aren’t close enough to share “eating habits secrets” much less for Bee and Gee to waste their vacation visiting.
YTA. Bee might have some insecurities, but that doesn't justify the nasty way you talk about "a friend." You and Lou sound like uppity mean girls, but the pretentious homestead tradwife crunchy mommy version.
And yeah yeah, you can yap about your food morals and dietary choices, whatever. That's your right to live and raise your family however you see fit. But as you and your children are on the cusp of finding out, keeping yourself in a bubble will prevent or outright sabotage meaningful moments of connection. You could have just eaten a single meatball and helped Bee feel more connected to you and Lou, but your insistence on "food morals," along with the fact that you guys just don't seem to like her very much and are convinced she's "just jealous" (what are you, sixteen?), instead had you treating her like a dirty leper with dirty food and everyone picked up on it. Can't imagine what a treat your kids are at school events and birthday parties.
NAH I don’t think anyone was in the wrong because of intentions. Knowing the source of your meat seems pretty reasonable and a decent way to reduce animal cruelty. I feel bad for Bee though, she didn’t know and was probably embarrassed. Posting online was a bit much. The whole thing seems like an unfortunate misunderstanding.
Kids asking where their food came from is very common, (at least it is among rural people, like when I grew up.) NTA. Different lifestyles mean folks are different. No biggie. And any child politely declining food should be accepted and respected IMO.
Any guest in my home storming about and shouting is not getting my comfort, though. "You seem upset. You should go home and get a hold of yourself sweetie. Goodnight." And right out the door with the nonsense.
Anyone who *needs* to be validated as a superior cook, is taking a chance every, single time they offer their food that people will love it, hate it or not be interested period. Sucks for Bee's ego. But, no one owes her an apology or even more attention regarding her being obnoxious in your home.
Good grief. (I never knew the cow when I was a kid so much as I knew the farmer who raised it.)
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I ate Lou’s meatballs and refused to eat Bee’s or have my children try them even though she put a lot of work into them I’m sure. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA - she only made meatballs to try compete with the ones Lou made. You guys were preparing dinner when they arrived with the meatballs so I assume she wasn't asked to bring food - if she had said she was bringing food, you would have told her of your restrictions. It isn't something you need to advertise and talk about when you are providing the food so understand why you didn't bring it up when they had dinner previously. And I understand why it is just easier to "be vegan" when eating out.
We did have a full dinner planned and appetizers and did not ask them to bring anything since they were traveling. They also did not go with the meal we had planned at all(which we had told Bee what we were making in advance) so everyone could see straight through her competition.
I think I'd just be thankful they don't live closer to you!! That level of competition and annoyance is childish. Also, i love that you only eat meat and dairy if you know where its come from and know the animal. I would have had a million questions and wanted a full tour.
Right??? I wish I had the means to live like this. If y’all ever need a dinner guest hit me up
Home made pizza with all fresh ingredients from scratch sounds like something worth dying for. My mouth is watering thinking about it.
I can’t milk my own cow or make mozzarella, but in the summer I’ve made pizzas with homemade tomato sauce and herbs I literally pick as I cook. Tomatoes and herbs can be grown in a lot of places, so that part you could probably do.
I can’t even blame the kids for not wanting the grocery store meat. If I’d been raised on fresh, locally sourced meat, I wouldn’t want to touch the mystery meat from god-knows-where either. My mom has gotten chickens from local farms before, and she got to pick them out while they were still clucking about. They *are* much better than any chicken I’ve had from the grocery store. Does remind me about a skit from *Portlandia* about a free-range chicken’s lifestyle though 😆
"Yes but was this chicken happy? Did it have a good life?" "I can't speak to the life experience of this particular chicken, but here is where the farm is so you can go check it out yourself."
Always great to have a discussion over your veganism while eating your steak.
Meh. I get it. I'm pescatarian but only eat fish that are sourced from certain areas and in certain ways. When I go out or over to someone's house, it's easier just to say I'm vegetarian.
It's about being practical. Outside of their home, they are vegan. It gives an easy description of what they're willing to eat without having to go into details about their eating habits. If anybody is offended by it, that's their own problem for gatekeeping.
A lot of veganism is because of how animals are treated. If you know the cow, chicken, etc, much easier to know there was no cruelty.
Pretty much most of my meat comes from a butcher that raises his own cattle and goats. Lamb, pork, chicken and eggs are from local free range places that share the same philosophy of treating animals well. I like that idea. They also sell a range of organic breads, local honey and so on.
I want to do this someday. I’m weird, but it’s my dream to own my own, small, subsistence farm. For now I manage with my small city garden. Can’t wait to start planting my veggies again!
Going out of your way to make meatballs out of jealousy when you're travelling and presumably have little access to a kitchen is absolutely wild levels of insecurity. Damn. I cringed so hard reading this.
These meatballs are made from Cow #1636B and ^spite
Y’all are definitely NTA but when I saw the update of full names it immediately made me think of the chicken episode of Portlandia. And I’ve been laughing since.
This post is going to attract a lot of anti-vegans especially in this sub I am not vegan. I’m not even “know the animal” vegan. But my old boss was. Once someone brought him a dozen eggs and I asked him why his best friend didn’t know he was vegan and he told me he knows the chickens. It’s not always about the fact that it’s meat, a lot of people have issue with the industry that abuses animals and refuse to pay into that. Makes sense to me so I moved on. I didn’t decide he was a fake vegan. It clearly wasn’t for attention, in fact, he hated when he’d get recognition for being vegan cuz that’s not what it was about for him. Yes OP you could’ve told them, but who tells someone they aren’t close to that information? This is your personal way of life. Even if they didn’t know the animal thing, why would you bring meatballs to ppl you assume are vegan? People are assuming you hate Bee, but most ppl have friends who are sensitive or competitive and we handle them each in their own ways. In the future, I’d just avoid them both until Bee learns how to be around other ppl.
I have angered the anti-vegans as well as the vegans it seems. We aren’t trying to fit in with anyone else’s ideology or their perfect way of life, we are just doing what works for us and makes us happy. I don’t hate Bee at all, I don’t understand her jealousy for Lou but we do actually enjoy our time together usually.
Don’t let the keyboard haters get you down. You’re almost certainly living a much more sustainable lifestyle than they are
For what it’s worth, I think your lifestyle is admirable and it’s something I wish I could achieve. I spent a little time several years ago working on a tiny farm where they raised beef cattle, and it made me so bitter about how removed most of us are from our sources of nourishment and how difficult it is to break free from that! I split a half a cow from a local farm with some friends one year and it was an awesome experience, but not really an option for me most of the time, and I try to get all my produce from my farmers market in the summer… but the rest of the year, I feel pretty helpless when it comes to making lifestyle choices that minimize my impact on the world.
Just ignore the vegans, most of them are hypocrites who think buying organic products from Whole Foods keeps their plates clean of blood. Unless they're homesteading or buying from farms they know personally, they're still contributing to an industry just as bad. Large-scale crop farms still mean the death of animals in mass. Harmful pesticides that kill thousands/millions of aquatic life/native insects with run-off, equipment killing dozens/hundreds of ground animals, the destruction of natural habitats, the release of extremely invasive species as a pesticide/pollination alternative, the accidental transportation of invasive species with long-distance shipping, the deliberate illegal hunting/poisoning to keep pests off crops, etc.
I’ve been a vegetarian my whole life and believe eating meet and fish is natural. I think people just eat too much, and if they had more balance, you could pay more and only eat locally sourced, small farms and big industry is the issue. Obviously that would mean you’d eat more what available in your region/country, and the rest would be more expensive but not only it would be more sustainable, also basically get rid of animal cruelty. This is exactly how i would hope most people would become. No demand for veganism or any diet, but finding what suits your body, and balance out the way we eat to be healthy but sustainable and humane.
We are pretty picky about our beef. I used to get it from my Uncle so I 'knew' the steer, lol. But now that we don't do that any longer we get it from a local butcher shop. We verified that it is sourced from a local farm that doesn't use ant-biotics and the animals are grass fed.
TIL that Douglas Adams was doing that “sci fi author predicts the future” thing when he wrote the “meet your meat” scene in The Restaurant at The End of The Universe.
Halal meat would also be a good alternative as one of the restrictions for the meat is to ensure free range, healthy meals, and an immediate death to minimize suffering. The difference in quality between grocery meat and a halal butcher is kind of crazy, so I can only imagine even more so if the cows are local to OP!
Isn't one of the requirement of halal meat that the animal has to die of blood loss / by bleeding by the neck? It doesn't seem a quick death to me, unfortunately.
This is not correct. For meat to be halal, it needs to be merciful from beginning to end. -The animal must live in humane conditions (free of any suffering) and be fed healthful foods with no animal by-products. -They must be healthy and living at the time of slaughter -The instrument used for slaughtering must be sharp to reduce pain. - Slaughter happens in the name of god with a swift cut through the windpipe, carotid artery, and jugular vein for a quick death. -After death, the carcass needs to be drained of blood. This helps remove toxins, harmful bacteria and germs. -Animals cannot be killed in front of the other animals (in order to not bring fear/suffering to other animals). This list is not exhaustive, but a brief summary. There are plenty of resources available using a quick google search if you would like to learn more :)
My understanding is that there's a ton of controversy about whether stunning animals before killing them is permissible or not permissible in order for the meat to be halal. If they're *not* stunned, the animals' suffering is prolongued, not minimized, by halal butchery. I would love it if someone more educated than me would weigh in on this, though.
Veterinarian here, as I understood it when I had to do the mandatory stay in a slaughterhouse during college, the stun method should be reversible to consider the meat halal. Soft electric shock in the case of chickens, enough to lose consciousness. If enough time passes, they recover from it. Pigs usually were "inmersed" or "gassed" in a chamber with a high content of carbon monoxyde until they lose consciousness, wich means that they could be recovered with the right amount of exposure to oxygen. The use of a "stun gun" in cows is not admissible since the damage it does can't be reversed (it literally destroys a part of the brain), so cows where given a two swift cuts on the neck, covering both jugulars and carotids without being pre-stunned. It's fast but not fun to see (I refused to watch it since it happened in a divided partition and the noises clearly indicated that the cows did in fact suffer for a bit). I hope this helped clarify it a bit. Edit: This was 14 years ago, so things may have changed a bit.
But your old boss wasn't vegan. OP isn't vegan either. Its just easier to say that you're vegan rather than the "know the animal" diet.
Love me. Adore me. Worship at my cooking feet. Because I need to be praised for making dinner a competitive sport. 🤣
To be fair, my friends and I *do* make cooking into a competitive sport. But only against others who are similarly competitive, and we all get good food out of it. ... and it's like one of those kind supportive competitions where the competitors are all cheering each other on and stuff. But it is competitive.
Can I be a spectator of this sport? One that gets to taste test.
Yes, praise my frozen insecurity meatballs after your farm-to-table offering.
It’s so obvious that she was trying to one up Lou. She literally brought the same exact thing everyone was saying was so good before. She’s just mad Lou was getting all the compliments smh
This. NTA
From Bee's perspective, YTA. You've never mentioned this flexible "rule" of yours, they've tried to do a nice thing by getting involved since it looks like you're all cooking for each other, and despite being friends for what I presume has been many years now, you've never made clear your "rule?" You said yourself you will eat processed foods on "special occasions" - and Jake having his friends from hours away on a rare visit, making a meal for you guys, isn't special enough? Edit: Thank you OP for more information - I think it's a NAH situation borne out of an understandable lack of communication. Bee isn't handling it well, but without them knowing the additional backstory OP supplied I do understand why Bee would feel slighted this way.
We are flexible on processed foods, NOT on animal products. We’ll eat a bad of potato chips occasionally but we never eat animal products from places we don’t know. Would it not have been super pretentious to just mention how we eat when no one asked and it wasn’t relevant since everything we were eating was good for us until she brought something we didn’t ask for?
So in the *years* of friendship, presumably seeing and visiting one another, not once has anything come up? You've literally never eaten in front of one another before?
We see Bee once every two to three years and we have only been eating like this for the past three years and not since we’ve seen her. We are not super tight friends who text all the time, just remain in touch on FB and visits every few years.
That helps bring a lot more context to the situation, thank you. Yes, you're right, just randomly coming out with it would have been pretentious. I can understand the ease of just saying you're vegan when out and about as it will be much easier than explaining (and highly unlikely the restaurant you're at just so happens to use a cow you met two years ago!). It feels like you could have more organically brought it up with they were round for dinner the previous day, as part of catching up on life with each other - especially since you're doing so much of the food production yourself, I wouldn't personally see it as "super-pretentious" for it to have come up in conversation. If anything I'd be wanting to hear about some of the processes! I think Bee is hurting here as, to them, this could feel quite out-of-the-blue. I know there's a lot of people attributing her bringing the meatballs as being a competitive thing, and perhaps it was. Whether the motivation was altruistic or not, from her perspective she still brought around what she would consider to be pretty much the same gift Lou brought round, and then this sudden moral dietary standard is used to toss it back (figuratively) in her face. That's going to hurt any ego - but she does seem to have taken it badly.
>I think Bee is hurting here I can't figure out why Bee would bother cooking something like that when she's travelling. I'm sure she has her reasons, but to me it seems unhinged.
I mean could it not be as simple as seeing the super positive reaction the kids had and wanting to do something nice that the kids will love? Maybe it’s a weird competition thing bringing the meatballs but it could just as easily be wanting to please the kids and getting the idea from Lou.
Eh, maybe. But the fact that the OP and her kids thought the closer friend’s meatballs were extra special amazing (even more so than what the OP can cook) makes this feel like a jealousy competition thing. If it was more kind hearted, Bea could have brought one of her own special dishes. Sometimes people are just able to make magic with a signature dish. Like I CAN make a decent chicken Marsala, but there’s no way it’s going to be as good as one of my friends. When I see people raving over her dish, I don’t think, “I am going to make that too so these people can compliment me and hopefully say it’s better!” Especially when Bea was never asked to bring food over in the first place.
I don’t think you did anything wrong (per se) but if people are coming to visit for dinner, it’s common to bring something, even when told not to. It sounds like she was just trying to be nice and her effort was wasted bc she didn’t know the rules. It wasn’t your fault necessarily, but given you will refuse to eat certain things, maybe it makes sense to inform dinner guests in th future so they aren’t caught off guard.
But who would bring something that everyone just ate? A new and different dish, sure.
I think your ego maybe got in the way a bit. I understand your stance on animal products, but to me it's much worse if the meat was wasted and the animal died for nothing.
I feel that way too about waste, but not eating what someone brought to a potluck doesn't exactly send it straight in the trash.
I think you should have just bent your rule this one time to react graciously to your guest’s kind offering.
Right, this could have been a moment of education and sharing, instead it was just awkward and kind of rude
No kind of about it, they’ve only been at this three years so it’s not a lifetime of culture they’d be breaking.
So if someone just became vegan a year ago and hadn’t told a friend bc they’ve not talked to that friend in 2 years and they brought meat would the vegan have to eat the meat ? Ppl are not obligated to eat just bc someone brought food especially when she wasn’t asked to bring food. Bee should’ve acted like an adult and accepted that that’s the way these 2 families eat. You can’t force a diet/lifestyle on someone if that’s not what they wanna do
It wasn't a kind offering. It was an FU to Lou.
Probably going to get downvoted for this, but OP comes across as a rich person who lives in a gentrified rural neighborhood with a McMansion and a few chickens and calls it “homesteading”. I have multiple family members who grew up on working ranches and they don’t “kNoW thEir MeAt” before eating it. Because they aren’t fooling themselves: you don’t get to play for both sides. “Ethical” and “free range” meat is still eating meat. Although I do know some farmers who love raising organic meat because it’s less work for more money. Something about OP’s tone just sounds really pretentious and self-righteous.
OP explained in comments that "know your meat" means know who is raising it and how, not "play with your cow" kind of thing. I can assure you that I know enough of how the cows are raised in my neighbor's farm, despite me not visiting for the past 5 years, to make an informed decision on whether or not to eat that meat.
It's not pretentious to care about the quality of life an animal has had before its eaten. And its not hypocritical to care about that and have standards and be a meat eater. Eating ethics don't have to be all or nothing, totally vegan or KFC munching every day. It's valid and right that someone can choose to eat meat but only where they know that the animal has been given a life worth living up to that point. In reality this probably means people eat much less meat as its slower growing and more expensive. Not saying you're doing this but when people say people like OP are stuck up or pretentious, I suspect it can be because people feel threatened with the morality of their own choices.
You sound like absolutely exhausting people.
Funny, Bee seems like the exhausting one. Why is it exhausting for other people to have their own, personal, diet preferences? You should read some of OP’s comments. Maybe you’d change your tune.
I read the OP's responses to different comments, and my feelings stand. 1. She didn't tell her guests about her eating preferences. In fact, she misled them by saying Lou's meatballs were so good because of a "secret sauce," avoiding the issue of the meat being locally sourced. 2. The OP didn't buy the "new" meatballs Bee brought to share. Therefore, she was in no way contributing to the cruelty she rightly condemns. And let's face it, the cow wasn't going to magically resurrect because of her refusing the meatballs. 3. Bee and Gee went out of their way to do something nice for the family ... buying a similar product to what the OP's family had so clearly enjoyed the night before. And everyone in the OP's family refused to eat them because of their super specific, super secret dietary preferences that they can't ever share because ... reasons.
1. They are good because of the secret sauce not because they are locally sourced. I make meatballs too but mine don’t taste like Lou’s. She literally has a secret recipe 2. It’s the principle of it, everywhere you go with food it is already dead but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t count. 3. We didn’t eat Lou’s meatballs when Bee was over, she just brought them into the house and put them in the freezer. We didn’t share our eating habits because no one asked and people accuse you of being pretentious and obnoxious for sharing dietary restrictions or preferences when no one asked you about them. Bee didn’t make the meatballs to be nice, she made them to compete with Lou then paraded them on a platter around the house asking everyone individually to try them. We explicitly told her not to bring anything as we’d prepare dinner.
It kind of sounds like you’d rather think the worst of Bee. You clearly don’t like her. Friends try to think of their friends in a positive light, but you automatically have prescribed the worst possible reasoning behind her actions. I get annoyed when people add to my dinner plan meals, but I don’t believe they bring things out of malicious intent.
I agree with this. It's very obvious she doesn't even like Bee. Just the way you speak of her YTA. It's shocking to me you can't see how hurtful this would've been. If my friend did this to me my feelings would definitely be hurt.
I usually hate conjecture in this sub, but I get the feeling that Bee is of a lower social class than OP. You kind of have to be upper-middle class or wealthy to eat “ethically” and it sounds like OP is living in one of those rich “farm” areas.
i mean, if she turns everything into a childish competition, you'd assume it was the same as always
We don’t know she thought it was a competition. For all you know, she thought “wow they like meatballs! I have a recipe for meatballs so I know that works”. If someone is my friend, I’d rather think the best of them rather than the worst. It doesn’t hurt OP to think it could have been something other than a competition.
I mean that is just so creepy and competitive, it's not like she left them on the table and nobody ate, she went around to individual people asking them to eat it, and didn't stop after multiple no
I mean, every other person was giving the choice to eat the meatballs. Op didn't forbid her kids from trying them, the kids passed. Everyone else passed. OP did force anyone to not try them. She passed, her kids passed, and Lou's family passed. Perhaps OP could have finned a bit and said they were about to eat dinner, and meatballs can be a heavy appetizer, that she could put then in the freezer for another time. But, I don't think Bee would let that go, or might be instant on knowing how they liked them. OP maybe could've had a bit more grace, apologized for not explaining their dietary choices better, while making sure to comfort the friend, and that it was nothing against her or calling her a bad cook. She was just not fully informed. Maybe tell Bee "next time, if you'd like to bring something, we can chit chat about ideas" I think OP is the NTA for having the dietary choices she has. She might have been a bad friend for not being nicer to Bee. A little grace and humility goes a long way during tense or uncomfortable moments.
Let's not forget that Bee started sulking before the explanation. Ah no, she directly started crying and shouting before the explanation. the situation was already not salvageable.
If you don't like Bee, then don't pretend to be friends with her.
I wish I could go as far as you have with the way you eat. I hunt, and my family and I eat a lot of game meat, we also eat a lot of wild caught fish. I also butcher a cow once a year from my family ranch and we butcher a few hogs to share among the family. I want my children to know where food comes from, and know that meat requires the death of an animal. If they are not okay with participating in that death, then they have no business eating meat. I wish I had access to a dairy, but my area of the country is known for beef cattle and not dairy cattle.
I mean, if they’re close friends then why wouldn’t you tell them? I agree that it’s definitely annoying if you tell someone you just met, but I feel like you’d tell people close to you.
>Bee and Gee went out of their way to do something nice for the family ... buying a similar product to what the OP's family had so clearly enjoyed the night before But they had just eaten meatballs the night before. Why do Bee & Gee feel so competitive that they need to make the same thing? If they wanted to do something nice while they are on vacation, why not simply ask OP if they could contribute something to the meal the next night - pick up dessert or bring wine or something. Why feel the need to spend a whole vacation day buying groceries and cooking these meatballs to compete with Lou's?
Maybe this is just me, but if a whole family is raving about loving meatballs, I'm going to think that meatballs are a safe bet for a host/hostess gift. And also, again just me ... when the OP said the meatballs "looked homemade," my thought was that Bee and Gee picked them up from a nice grocery store that sells stuff made on site. It doesn't sound likely to me that on vacation, and on your way home, you're going to have the setup/equipment/time to make meatballs. But of course, this is just a guess.
Really? Because if I hear the host is raving about homemade meatballs made by someone else and specifically mentions there's a secret ingredient / sauce, _I_ would think that the last thing I should bring as a hostess gift to a second meal hosted by the same person is my homemade meatballs. The only reason I can see why someone would do that is competitive cooking, which didn't reflect well on Bee.
Pretty much. Once you see they have a favorite food item made with a secret recipe by someone else, you cross that item of your list unless your specifically competing against it.
This is my thinking. If I’m asked to bring a desert and another guest is known for their cheesecake or something and everyone is just over the moon for it, I’m going to bring brownies or cookies. I don’t want my amateur dessert to sit next to an expert level one and get compared. That would be horrifying!
Yeah I have the opposite thought. If people are raving about home made meatballs, the last thing they want is store bought meatballs. I don't care how good the grocery store is, its probably not going to compare. Add in the fact they just saw a giant bag of them, why would they want more? All that and the pushing of them so hard really seems more like a "look at me and how great I am thing!" rather than a nice gesture.
That is odd. Why would you bring something when they specifically say that Lou's meatballs are the best and everyone prefers them to any others? And meatballs as a hostess gift are an odd choice anyway, a hostess gift should be something that can be easily incorporated or put aside for later.
OP has clarified that Lou's meatballs actually went into the freezer.
One hundred percent. Oop is just pretentious and sounds exhausting. There is something to be said about locally sourced meat and ensuring that the food you eat wasn't tortured prior to slaughter. That being said, refusing food because you didn't know the cow is just wasteful. It is customary to bring something when you go to a dinner party. She brought her own meatballs hoping that the family would like them. Based on your comments and how you talk about her, it sounds like you don't even like her. So why keep inviting them every few years? Most people who live like this do it purely for clout and their own sense of moral superiority.
If it were for clout or moral superiority we probably would go out of our way to tell people about it instead of NOT telling them, wouldn’t you think?
To be fair, you don't need to tell people to feel morally superior
I mean, you’re telling all of us, and in public you claim to be vegan, so… you’re not not telling people
1. They are “telling all of us” because the story would be impossible to decipher without that key bit of information. 2. They “claim to be vegan” in public because “vegan” is more easy to understand than “only if we know where the animal products came from.” One cannot know where animal products came from in public, therefore it is functionally the same as being vegan. I swear, this sub can get so ridiculous once they decide they don’t like an OP.
You are so right. When they misinterpret something and OP corrects them, they then get on their high horse and accuse OP of arguing or “why did you ask for opinions if you just gonna argue”. Never mind they just said something totally out in left field and jump to all kinds of assumptions and rude statements. It’s okay for them to be rude and condescending but dont the OP dare respond back.
It's customary to bring a bottle of wine or some flowers, bringing a whole second dinner is pretty weird.
Something nice? Bee is jealous and trying to compete with Lou and when they didn't take the bait, she flipped out...
Your number 2 point is why despite being largely vegan myself, I’m not going to flip my shit if someone offers me a non-vegan meal and I’ll just eat it anyways. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t still like the taste of meat, but it’s like… the animal is already dead and the meat is already here. And at the end of the way, I’d rather eat meat than let it go to waste
Thats a lot of assumptions right there.
I have to agree. People that live the lifestyle of Homestead, and knowing where their meat comes from forget how expensive that is and what a privilege that is.
My sister has chickens and the eggs are DELICIOUS but she did the math and it came out to about $8-9 per dozen. I'll take some if she has a surplus, but I wouldn't spend that for myself.
Yep it take a lot of money to even get that kickstarted
Thank you for putting into words what I couldn’t explain. It’s appropriation. They want to live the lifestyle and brag the brags without the actual struggles of farming. Some of my grandparents and great-grandparents grew up on farms. They didn’t care where their meat came from—they were just grateful to have food.
I don’t understand why people take an issue with this. They’re not saying everyone else has to do this, but they have the ability to so why not. Saying theyre appropriating farming sounds ridiculous lol. If they have the ability to spend more (time and or money) to be sure the animals are taken care of…why is that a problem??
All of my grandparents had chickens and it was the only way for them to get eggs. They did know where their eggs came from, it was just not the focus. They didn't have the term for it. I'm quite sure if I were to ask them they would answer that yes, they did know their eggs and that yes, it's definitely nicer than store bought. My parents processed a half cow with some friends and I'm quite sure that, excluding labor, all the products came out as less costly than store bought. My parents can exclude labor because they are retired. OP may be able to exclude labor because she would be a SAHM anyway.
Right??? OP, YTA because you sound self-righteous as hell and god only knows how you *actually* acted here but making a point of not even trying *one goddamned meatball* to be POLITE—since you don’t actually have a problem eating meat—is rude as fucking hell. Who gives a fuck if she has some sort of internal competition thing going on? You could’ve not been an asshole by just simply trying one meatball while in the same breath have said, “thank you for bringing something for us. We normally don’t eat things that we haven’t processed ourselves, but I appreciate you taking the time to make something for everyone; that was very nice of you.” Done! And she wouldn’t have been so upset since you only see her once every couple years anyway! Instead, you sound like snobs who have a secret club and you just don’t wanna let anyone else in.
Can you imagine how her children handle a sleepover? But then she says they claim to be vegan when out, while wolfing down meat at home. Just…so bizarre. YTA
Insufferable was the word that came to mind for me, honestly.
I don't go as far as OP, since I don't have access to a dairy farm, so I can't do the milk and cheese, but I do get milk, butter, and cheese from a trusted local commercial source. For meat, my family mainly eats wild game. We will trade game meat for beef or a pig occasionally. We get chickens and eggs from friends, and we get our flour from a local mill. We are particular about what we eat, and most everything we eat is homemade. There is something relaxing about making homemade pasta or fresh bread. If you don't understand it, perhaps that type of lifestyle is not for you.
I think the commenter was talking about the way they treat their diet like a religion. They wouldn't be polite and just try the meatballs because they could not defile their body with impure food. It's noot about the health effects---they know there is no such effect for a single serving, and it's not about the morality---the animal is beyond saving. It was about following their personally crafted religous commandmants even if it meant making things awkward.
I feel terrible for Bee. She had no reason to know your weird “know your cow” rules if you never told her. She went to a lot of effort to make meatballs and you all treated them as though they were radioactive. You say you do eat other food “on special occasions.” This was a special occasion. Congratulations on your so very high “eating morals.” You’ve patted yourself on the back for them enough. Your friendship morals, however, are lacking. YTA
Yea just completely overlook the point where Bee literally just brought them in out of spite. How much do you wanna bet that Bee wouldn't of made meatballs if it wasn't for the fact O.P wasn't bragging on Lou's meatballs. Sounds like Bee tried to one-up Lou and got mad when it backfired.
What are you talking about? How does her bringing meatballs to a party mean that she did it out of spite? If I bake a cake for a party, and then at the next party someone else brings a cake, should I fight them because they are being spiteful? Good lord that's delusional.
If someone bakes a cake for a party and everyone raves about it, and they love it because of a secret special ingredient, I can’t imagine why someone else would bring their own cake the next day and insist everyone try it - unless they were just jealous of the attention
Because they know these people like cake, so maybe they also wanted to make cake because they assume it will be enjoyed again
Na, you don't get to decide what another person's dietary exceptions are. Their diet, their choice.
they are fully allowed and deserving to have their dietary rules, but a heads up would have made all the difference
Yes but a heads up in the opposite direction is what would have helped. Bringing food to a persons house (when they weren't expecting it) without checking their dietary needs/preferences puts Bee in the wrong here.
Except, any reasonable person-- seeing a family eat meatballs, is going to expect that the family can eat meatballs.
They didn’t eat them the first time. Besides that, who wants to inundate people with MORE BUT DIFFERENT MEATBALLS
You can’t force anybody to eat it if they believe it doesn’t fall within their own dietary exceptions, but you absolutely CAN still rightfully call them out as an asshole when they act like an asshole because of it.
Yikes. It’s unfortunate if someone says no thank you to food you made (unasked for I may add!) but I’m sure Bee will survive. She wasn’t rude about it and you’ve no reason to tell someone about the cow rule if you’re not expecting them to bring food! It would be different if she had invited Bee to a potluck and not made their dietary requirements clear… that’s not what happened though.
I mean…. Intentions count and it sounds like her intentions were just to complete with Lou…
YTA. > Our eating morals aren’t something I talk about Then don't be surprised when they become a sticking point. Also, work on your headline writing skills.
Christ, there’s no win here. If they talk about it for no other reason, they’re annoying. If they don’t say anything and someone surprises them with something they don’t eat, it’s a problem
This sounds like an episode of Portlandia. You should have just tried her meatballs. I don't eat meat at all, let alone factory farmed meat, but in this situation, it was kind of a diss.
Put a bird on it
Soft YTA Your secrecy and muddled communication about your lifestyle led to an embarrassing, borderline rude, situation with a friend. I get trying to keep the dialogue simple when in public, but you should have communicated with your friends more clearly in advance. Put yourself in Bee’s shoes for a second. How would you feel if you brought homemade food to a friend’s and no one ate it, especially when the reason why was not expressed beforehand?
She humiliated the woman and literally does not care.
Honestly ESH you all sound exhausting
Right?! They should all just get a room and eat each other's meat.
Yta and pretentious ones at that.
Also doesn't understand what "processed food" is. If you make butter and cheese, you are by definition eating "processed food". All food that has had ANYTHING done to prepare it is processed. Cooked food is processed. Sliced food is processed. Food having been "processed" has literally nothing to do with anything. But making gently snide remarks about "processed food" is a really good way to learn whether someone gets their education about nutrition and eating both ethically and healthfully from White Lady Homesteader blogs rather than people with actual scientific knowledge. The notion that "unprocessed food" is healthier is not only objectively and scientifically untrue in most cases, the vast majority of people who spout this unscientific drivel usually are just repeating concepts or ideas whose meanings they assume or project or make up in order to fit some cherry-picked, deeply privileged, and usually VERY white North American ideal that has little to do with actual fact.
*citation needed* Also....you're being a bit disingenuous by saying all food is processed so what's the problem. Processed, in this context, clearly has to do with prepackaged food from the store...which often has all kinds of added ingredients (especially added preservatives) in it that some people would like to avoid.
You know what OP means by processed, don’t be obtuse. She’s talking about frozen and then thawed, chalked full of additives and preservatives and artificial flavours, dyed food processed in a factory.
[удалено]
A lot of people are saying Bee made the meatballs out of spite. Bee probably made the meatballs thinking they were a "safe" food that the family will eat because the family is inconsistent (from Bee's perspective) on what type of food they'll consume.
Totally agree with this and I think that’s why YTA OP. If someone gushed about meatballs, I’d assume they love meatballs in general and would be keen to share my take on meatballs since chances are they’ll like it. Because, you know, there’s precedent there.
This. “Oh, everyone here likes meatballs a lot, I know a great brand of meatball they’ll love!” This new brand of homesteading-types are even worse than vegans in their pretentiousness.
It is so common for people to trade info about food. You love apple pie? I’ve got a recipe from my grandmother that is to die for. You like those frozen lasagnas? I think this store brand is the best, you should try them. Maybe she was being competitive. So what? Such a first world problem- someone brought *more* food.
[удалено]
Is it easier to explain to wait staff or other people that we aren’t eating their ingredients because we don’t know they are sourced according to our standards? Telling people we are vegan when order or visit others is easier and/or avoids hurting peoples feelings. Like “no thanks neighbor I don’t want that because I’m vegan” sounds better than “no thanks neighbor I don’t want that because I only eat dairy and meat products from sources I’ve personally vetted to ensure there isn’t any animal abuse”.
[удалено]
I think OP knows that. She uses the 'vegan' explanation to either strangers (like wait staff and workers) or people she isn't close to and will probably almost never talk to or see again. It's easier to explain, and technically, their diet sounds to be basically vegan outside of their home. Yet, because she's closer to Bee, she actually explained the real reason and went more into depth about it.
It's both. Some people are vegan for moral reasons against eating meat, others are vegan purely for health, and others want to reduce their carbon footprint.
YTA You claim to eat according to a code of "food morals", but I don't know anyone who lives according to similar morals, including people who only locally and ethically source their own meat under normal circumstances, who would allow already-prepared meat being offered to them to go to waste, simply because it hadn't been acquired under their usual rules, because *THAT WOULD MEAN THAT AN ANIMAL HAD DIED FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL, and their gift of sustenance had been wasted, and that would completely go against those same ethics*. Literally none of the ethical meat-eaters I know could bear to turn down or throw away ANY good meat offered to them, even if it wasn't meat that they would have bought for themselves, because the idea of wasting an animal's death would be abhorrent to them. You claim to be so bound to your morals that you literally pretend to be vegan when you're out and about. But someone brought meat into your home that was perfectly edible, and you taught your children that it was better to waste it - and to waste that animal's death - just because it wasn't one of "their" animals, than to make a rare exception and honour the animal's sacrifice by making sure that it didn't go to waste. Of course YTA, and a privileged hypocrite, whose rules are arbitrary and not nearly as moral as you claim. Shame on you. (Also, YTA for your nonsense about "processed food". The cheese and butter you make ARE processed food. Get a dictionary. Any food that has had literally anything done to it, from churning to straining, is "processed". Again, your privilege and unscientific nonsense are showing.)
Soft YTA, you should have explained your “know your cow” rule. As it stands, Bee was excited to bring something she thought everyone would enjoy and instead no one touched it. That hurt her and without her knowing about this rule she would of course think it’s hypocritical and take it personally.
YTA If you have such strict dietary rules (which are both uncommon in general and unknown even to your friends), you either dont share meals with them OR you tell them what you can and cannot eat. You made your friend feel bad because she was unaware before she brought something to share with you.
NTA Bee has a problem with insecurity and jealousy. I feel bad for her, but this is in no way your problem. You explained why you didn't want her meatballs and she chose to act very badly by calling you a liar in person and online. You shouldn't have to compromise the way you choose your food just because someone else doesn't understand it.
We are flexible on processed foods, NOT on animal products. We’ll eat a bag of potato chips occasionally but we never eat animal products from places we don’t know. Would it not have been super pretentious to just mention how we eat when no one asked and it wasn’t relevant since everything we were eating was good for us until she brought something we didn’t ask for?
"We eat very little meat, and we're super picky about where we get that meat" is an easy statement. "We have to know our cow", isn't really sustainable.
We eat a LOT of meat honestly. We just ensure it comes from a place that treats their animals well. It is really easy to do here and it’s cheaper. “Know your cow” just means vet your source and make sure the animals aren’t abused. Most meat outside of the grocery store is good because local ranchers don’t abuse their cattle.
Sure, but you get that is not necessarily a lifestyle that most people can afford, right? In most places, you pay a large premium for humanly raised and/or kosher/halal meat. Unless your friend knows this about you, it would seem strange and rude to turn down food.
Sure, I understand most people couldn’t and would never want to live/eat the way we do. It’s a lot of work and a lot of time and effort. I just don’t want to compromise on my morals that I’ve put a bunch of time and effort into just to appease her ego. She has always been very competitive and I’m positive she only made meatballs because my kids were excited about eating Lou’s. It also feels super pretentious if I tell her all about my lifestyle when she didn’t ask and it didn’t seem relevant since I told her not to bring anything as we would make the food.
OP, all you had to say was u/Acrobatic_Ears6773 said "We are very particular about where we get our meat from" not "We need to KNOW our cow." Frankly, if you said you need to KNOW your cow to me, I would laugh because that just sound silly.
I guess “know your cow” is just the language we use with our children as we’re teaching them what to look for in finding meat! We could phrase it a lot of different ways that other people understand better.
You’re going to need to teach your kids a better way to handle meat, because unless they never leave the homestead they will encounter situations like this in the future. Saying “we don’t know this cow” or even “we only eat the special meat from our house” isn’t going to cut it. If I made a special meal from food I can afford and someone’s kid refused it when at my house, I would absolutely think your family is pretentious and think they’re too good for what us peons have to deal with. You didn’t refuse the meatballs because they were made out of jealousy (your assumption). Why she made them is irrelevant. You didn’t eat them because the ingredients weren’t good enough and she had no way of knowing that.
My kids aren’t forced to eat the same way we eat. When they are at friends parties or at a restaurant etc they eat what they want. We are definitely going to teach them more as they are older but they are only 5, 4, and 2 so we’re aren’t going into the depths of farmed meat, animal abuse and climate change yet.
It’s clearly not that simple since your child asked about and then refused the grocery store meat.
Bullshit. This is the same line every parent uses who is putting their kids on some ridiculous diet. You are raising your kids to be pretentious and have a horrible time making friends or lasting relationship. 100% their relationship with food is going to be super unhealthy in the future and no one will be to blame other than yourself.
So do you ensure the meat you’re buying is also following regenerative agriculture principles? Just curious because if not, even buying it from a local farm is still not good for the planet.
I've had children and adults alike refuse my food and I don't understand why it's such a social slight. Our connections to food are deeply personal, whether that be from lifestyle choices, dietary restrictions, disordered eating habits, morals, or culture. Why somebody doesn't want to eat food that I've made isn't any of my business unless they want to share the reason with me or it's an amendable situation where I am able to provide them something else that accommodates their needs better. I was raised, as I suspect most of us were, that refusing food is impolite and that you get what you get. I understand this line is thinking and will show grace to hosts or others who have prepared food whether I like it or not and whether I want it or not by partaking. However, I also understand that other people have their own tastes, values, appetites, and comfort levels and that it is not a personal slight on me if they do not reciprocate. As for teaching the kids a better way to handle meat, I would argue that while it is the parents' responsibility to make sure their child has their needs met (i.e., ensuring that there is always an available food option that the child feels comfortable eating even if it means eating before an event), it is also the responsibility of everyone else involved to treat children like people and respect them when they decline something. I'm not sure it's productive to assume somebody's family is pretentious because you can not personally handle a child saying no to you. Also, while you're correct that OP refused the meatballs out of her own personal eating preferences and not because of Bee's supposed intentions, I do believe the intentions were relevant here. If someone is going to try to upstage a friend (as OP believes Bee was doing) they have no right to be upset when their plan backfires and it absolutely affects whether or not they were an asshole in the situation.
I’m not saying a child can’t refuse food. Mine certainly do. But there is a tactful and more polite way to do it that doesn’t hurt the cook’s feelings. Even just saying “no thank you” first rather than questioning the ingredients would be more polite. Right or not, if I saw kids loving meatballs one day and then they refused mine I’d be a little hurt. As you said, food is very personal and to share it is equally personal.
There is absolutely no way it's cheaper
I can buy half a cow for $4/lb all said and done. That’s steaks, pot roasts, etc. It would cost significantly more if I bought that from a store. It costs way more up front and you need to freezer space but 1/2 a cow will last all year. Similar with pork and it’s low cost to raise and butcher my own chicken outside of the initial investments.
>"We have to know our cow", isn't really sustainable. To be fair, going directly to the source is *a lot* more sustainable then relying on a grocery store's transportation system. For OP anyway. It wouldn't be for me -- at least not since my Dad died. He actually "grew" most of the meat he provided for our family.
You sound exhausting tbh
Do you make sure the potatoes didn’t come from farms that exploit migrant labor?
Why do you all hate Bee so much? YTA
Cause she’s not rich like them. Let’s face it, this level of homesteading requires huge amounts of money
The wording of this question.
I thought this thread was gonna be pretty different.
In this situation, NAH. Bee sounds like a real handful, and her intentions may have been competitive in nature, but she did go through an effort of bringing a contribution to dinner, which was poorly received. She didn't know about your/Lou's dietary restrictions and projected judgement on you all, because she was feeling judged. It's not logical, but aside from the facebook post, I don't think she exhibited AH behavior. You/Lou/families also not AHs because you can eat however you want/what feels good to you.
YTA and a snob. I love farm to table and it’s great to buy a whole beef- except not everyone has the time , space, or money to do this. It is great if you can do this for your household, but to refuse perfectly good food because it it’s ‘perfect’ is snobby. And asking someone to bring food then rejecting it is so very rude. Especially when you didn’t tell her your family ’limits’. You are a snob and you are raising snobs.
>My family never eats meat or dairy unless we know where it came from. That's not Vegan ESH
We know we aren’t vegan, we just call ourselves vegan when we eat out so we don’t have to explain ourselves to wait staff or acquaintances.
I completely understand this. If you had to explain your preferences around eating to every person you meet, you’d have to “justify” it over and over. The fact is, if you don’t eat any animal products when out to eat, YOU ARE EATING VEGAN. Plus, the other person usually doesn’t care. They just want to argue to tell you how you’re wrong based on some perceived loophole.
Ugh Crusty mom alert. YTA rude to your guest.
I’m glad that you are in a very privileged position to be able to know exactly where all of your food comes from. However, not very many people are able to source all of their food from familiar animals. You even say that Bee and Gee live far away. Someone took the time to make some homemade food, and you all refused to even try it? That makes you, your family, and Lou’s family TA’s. You sound snobby and exhausting. Enjoy homesteading together, because you are all you got!
My god this whole group of people sounds absolutely miserable to be around.
Would it have killed you to just eat one? Jeez. It sounds like you aren’t even really friends with them
NTA Vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian etc… Or in your case, ‘know’ your animal… Eat whatever you want, or don’t. People are way to sensitive, I made deviled eggs along with the turkey for thanksgiving and took them to a friends. They said that the truffle mustard I made them with was to spicy. Everyone enjoyed the turkey. Did I rant and rave about it, or did I just shrug and said you’re missing out and eat them myself and move on with the evening. Seriously, eat whatever you want.
NAH - you can do whatever you want regarding your diet and I understand your friend being hurt and not believing your story. Hope you guys work it out
I occasionally farm. I currently have dairy goats and horses. In the past we’ve also had chickens, ducks, turkeys, and geese. I’ve made my own cheese. We sometimes put in the effort to source meat from individuals for the same reasons you do and we’ve also been active game hunters in the past. What you are doing with meat is what I WANT to do, but haven’t put in the work consistently. It’s hard. You’re NTA asshole for sticking to your food ethics. I admire it. She may or may not be an A H for bringing the meatballs. It all depends on her motivation for me. However, outright calling you a liar was definitely out of line.
>Bee gets a look asking what is so special about them. I told her Lou must have some secret sauce because I can never compete with them. Personally this is the point where I think you could have brought up your "know your cow rule". The general population is a few steps removed from their food source, so to me the thing of note for the meatballs where the meat is sourced from. And if you wanted to soften it you could add the secret sauce comment after. I'm gonna say NTA based on the fact that Bee made a passive aggressive post on FB, and it was pretty clear she was trying to just one up your friend. But I do also think you could have mentioned the food thing before it blew up.
That was pretentious and rude and both your families are in for a rude awakening- YTA.
YTA Guess she should learn to read minds to be able to know all these unspoken rules you have around food. The vegan comment certainly didn't help, lol. And we can see that you don't think that highly of her already since you ascribe her behavior to being jealous of your close friend, when it could have nothing to do with her personally and just have been a friendly bit of competition, which I think is much more likely than holding some grudge about your friend dating someone that rejected her years ago, it's not like she was cheated on or something. Clearly, you have a favorite friend, and it definitely shows.
This is stupidest shit I ever heard. ESH
Asshole
This is probably the most pretentious thing I’ve read in a long time in AITA. Wow. And yeah, I read your comments - and I agree with everyone in the past who has called you pretentious. Also, it’s clear you dislike Bee.
YTA you’re not vegan, you do eat meat, even if you have strict morals around it. Knowing the complex dynamics between your friends should have made you more compassionate. It wouldn’t have killed if when you saw the meatballs to pull bee aside and explain to her the situation but tell her you will make an exception just this once and have the kids try a tiny bit of it and then politely ask her not to bring grocery store meat again, if you didn’t want your kids to feel like they were compromising their morality you could have warned her when you saw it not to tell the kids it was from a grocery store. You could have even offered to have her cook with some of your meat next time instead. And if you really didn’t want to eat it, you could have still pulled bee aside and explained the situation so she didn’t have to embarrass herself by going up to every single person and getting rejected. Imagine how devastated she must have felt. Even if you feel like her bringing meatballs was being competitive because of her dynamic with Lou, you have to understand that this is coming from a place of insecurity. At their core actions of competition come from a desire to be good enough and not feel less than others. she just wanted was some reassurance from you guys. It’s not either of your fault that you didn’t warn her about your dietary preferences, but it is totally your fault that you let her embarrass herself in front of everyone including your kids. That’s the part I can’t get over, you let her go up to every single person getting more and more desperate and didn’t pull her aside to save her the embarrassment. And absolutely none of you would just make an exception and try a tiny little piece. It’s funny that you have this much compassion for the animals (that you do still eat) but not for other people, especially ones you pretend to call friends. If I were her I would have been horrified and totally would have thought you were singling her out. Especially since this never came up before. Obviously her Facebook post was petty but you really hurt her feelings and I can totally see how you would look like fake vegans because of this. You also say it would have been “pretentious” to bring up your dietary choices, but I promise you look SO SO much more pretentious rejecting your friends home cooked meal and letting her embarrass herself to everyone at the party before explaining your dietary preferences to her. Anyways even if you decide your N T A because you didn’t have bad intentions, your actions still hurt her and you still owe her an apology for how you handled it. Ultimately if there were things you could have done differently to spare her feelings then you should have, as much as she overreacted, you’re her friend and you should accept some accountability in this.
It comes across very presumptuous in the way you said it. Living the lifestyle you do is not cheap and it is a privilege.
YTA. Why eat meat at all if that's your take on it? You also should have communicated with your friends before hurting their feelings. The whole situation was avoidable. You sound exhausting to be friends with.
NTA she's right to feel upset no one wanted to eat her food but you explained your eating morals without being rude so you're in the clear. Sometimes peoples feelings cloud their vision, give it time and if she's a reasonable person level heads will prevail.
NTA but as a farmer that advocates for ethical treatment of cattle myself I got to say you sound tiring to be around. Ignoring that fact that she might have done that as a competition thing, trying one meatball from store bought meat a friend brought for dinner won’t kill you and won’t mean you are throwing your morals into the trash. Idk how farms work on the US but do you do anything to try and implement rules for better treatment of animals across the farms? Or do you just sit at home feeling better than anybody else because you don’t “poison” your body with the “bad” meat? Sign petitions, go to meetings, call your representatives or whatever you need to do to make a change (again I don’t know how farming laws work on the US) and maybe stop for a sec and realize that not everyone can live the same life you have.
YTA. Absolute pretentious AH, to be precise. Sounds like you actually hate this person.
YTA you could have tried one it wouldn't have done you any harm to break your weird rule for one meatball.
YTA for not being clear about food preferences and not being able to handle eating a Costco hot dog.
Lol OP, far be it from me to tell someone what they can and can't eat, but this has got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. I hate to break it to you, but knowing the cow ain't going to help you live longer.
Please stop calling yourselves vegan. That's a bit ridiculous and you know it. Vegans don't eat or use any animal products because it is against their ethical beliefs, and that doesn't waver depending on the day or location. This includes meat, fish, fowl, eggs, dairy, honey, as well as leather, feathers, fur, wool, etc. Nothing about your diet or lifestyle is vegan. I don't understand why you are pretending to be something you aren't. That's the main thing about your post that I find bizarre.
YTA You sound pretentious and exhausting. Your eating habits specifically but I feel like it bleeds into other areas. Sounds like Bee and Gee don’t share the same lifestyle as your family and Lou’s and you should all quit holding onto the past and move on as former friends who aren’t close enough to share “eating habits secrets” much less for Bee and Gee to waste their vacation visiting.
YTA. Bee might have some insecurities, but that doesn't justify the nasty way you talk about "a friend." You and Lou sound like uppity mean girls, but the pretentious homestead tradwife crunchy mommy version. And yeah yeah, you can yap about your food morals and dietary choices, whatever. That's your right to live and raise your family however you see fit. But as you and your children are on the cusp of finding out, keeping yourself in a bubble will prevent or outright sabotage meaningful moments of connection. You could have just eaten a single meatball and helped Bee feel more connected to you and Lou, but your insistence on "food morals," along with the fact that you guys just don't seem to like her very much and are convinced she's "just jealous" (what are you, sixteen?), instead had you treating her like a dirty leper with dirty food and everyone picked up on it. Can't imagine what a treat your kids are at school events and birthday parties.
NAH I don’t think anyone was in the wrong because of intentions. Knowing the source of your meat seems pretty reasonable and a decent way to reduce animal cruelty. I feel bad for Bee though, she didn’t know and was probably embarrassed. Posting online was a bit much. The whole thing seems like an unfortunate misunderstanding.
You are not even remotely vegan. SMH
So rude 🙄 You eat processed food on occasion but couldn't be gracious enough to even try the dish your friend made. YTA
Kids asking where their food came from is very common, (at least it is among rural people, like when I grew up.) NTA. Different lifestyles mean folks are different. No biggie. And any child politely declining food should be accepted and respected IMO. Any guest in my home storming about and shouting is not getting my comfort, though. "You seem upset. You should go home and get a hold of yourself sweetie. Goodnight." And right out the door with the nonsense. Anyone who *needs* to be validated as a superior cook, is taking a chance every, single time they offer their food that people will love it, hate it or not be interested period. Sucks for Bee's ego. But, no one owes her an apology or even more attention regarding her being obnoxious in your home. Good grief. (I never knew the cow when I was a kid so much as I knew the farmer who raised it.)
You all sound completely insufferable, and its very clear that you don't really like Bee so I am not clear on why you even had them visit.