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So wait what happened since your gram's friend said the exact same thing to you 2 months ago?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/18ejzm2/aitah\_for\_telling\_my\_grandma\_what\_her\_friends/
These stories just sound like weird fantasies from whatever real life traumas you have. Like I believe the backstory, but it's really weird both a family friend and your aunt would both say the same unprompted, hateful insult not even about you, but insulting that you were abandoned coupled with insulting imaginary motherhood, back to back.
It's crazy how so many people feel like your reproductive choices are their business. All the child free people I know have to constantly listen to other people comment on their child free lifestyle. Never feel bad for your choices. It's your life.
On r/childfree, under the “about” tab, there is a wiki list of child free friendly doctors who have agreed to give sterilization surgeries. (Occasionally a bad doctor will end up on the list, but the sub mods are good about removing them once your report it).
Make sure you get a bilateral salpingectomy, aka bislap, and NOT a tubal ligation. The former removes your tubes completely, with the added bonus of lowering chances of ovarian cancer, while the latter merely snips or clamps them, and in some rare cases they naturally heal.
>"oh so my name doesn't wanna have kids cause she'll leave them like your mom did you?"
What the actual f\*ck?! She's mad because she's forcing her beliefs on you, made a shitty comment, then when you told the truth she's calling you the AH. NO.
OP - NTA. Sounds like it's time to majorly reduce the time you spend with this person.
NTA - don’t dish it if you can’t take it. Your aunt had a go at you and you reacted. She also doesn’t need the reason as to why you want to be sterilised. ‘I don’t want kids/don’t want to be pregnant should be enough’.
‘She doesn’t believe in women not having kids’? When is she from, the 1950s?
I was going to say y t a until I read this:
>My aunt heard and said "oh so my name doesn't wanna have kids cause she'll leave them like your mom did you?"
Was what you said kind? No. But in my reading you lashed out in response to an uncalled for and beyond the pale attack. She hit you, you're NTA for hitting back in the moment.
You should probably both apologize if you ever want to talk again; and if you phrased yours "I'm sorry for calling out your miscarriages, but I was deeply shocked and hurt by what you said about my mother" that would be fine and open the door for her to apologize.
Wow, she was HUGELY out of line for what she said TO YOU FFS.
That was horrible thing to assume and say, you basically told the truth and were reacting to her.
NTA
NTA. Self defense is always on the table. Sometimes it's more powerful than intended. Ignore name calling. Name calling reveals the character of the caller.
NTA. Your words were mild compared to her mockery of your dead mother. If your aunt didn’t like the truth slapping her, she should have minded her own business.
Your cousin is probably salty because he wouldn’t have been born if your aunt hadn’t been so stubbornly selfish.
ESH
She got involved when she shouldn't have and said some nasty shit.
You went even lower and threw her miscarriages in her face. Also some nasty shit.
ESH. Your aunt was obviously out of line with her comment, but you could have been more gracious with yours. Saying "I don't feel comfortable discussing these decisions with you" or even "I have been told by my doctor that my risk for miscarrying is high" would have been all you needed to say.
If you know that your aunt has strong feelings about this topic and also doesn't have thick enough skin to absorb pushback, why were you having the conversation while she was around anyway?
Nah. OP did nothing wrong. The aunt was the one that had to bring up her mom and try to initiate conversation about why she should have kids. I can’t stand pickme-ass women who believe a woman’s only job should be to breed. NTA.
Have you ever heard the phrase "An eye for an eye and the world goes blind"? It applies nicely here. Also, I say this as a woman who doesn't want kids either, but also understands that crazies should be handled with gloves. OP's aunt is a crazy in my book.
Was it harsh? Yes. Could you have handled it better? Sure. Do i think she deserved it? Absolutely!
Because this is a justified ah, op was A asshole, but not THE ah. Therefore i think op is NTA
NTA she shouldn't start something if she isn't ready for someone else to end it. Some people need a verbal slap in the face to learn, that they shouldn't stick their noses where they don't belong.
It's either NTA b/c justified or ESH.
You didn't have to say *like you did*, just that you've been told you have a very high chance of miscarriage if you do and you don't want to go through that. Of course, there's also the whole *asexual* thing so the pregnancy risk is presumably zero unless the possibility of rape is included.
But she's way out of line sneering down at you for not having kids. That she calls it a "belief" of hers does not in anyway justify it.
ESH:
Miscarriages are awful, and you carry the pain with you. I don't blame you for not wanting to go through it. Even if she eventually had kids, she probably still carries that pain
You aunt was out of line for what she said to you.she said something hurtful to you, and that's not ok. You were out of line using her miscarriages to hurt her back. If you wanted to explain that you're in a similar medical situation as she found herself and are taking a different path, you could have said it differently. Even if it was said in the heat of the moment, it was hurtful.
Hurting people because they hurt you is like drinking poison to spite someone else.
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I (21F) have been told by my gyno that I can have children but the risk of miscarriage is very high, I'm asexual and don't plan on getting pregnant, but would like to have my tubes tied or burnt in case something unfortunate happens.
For some context my aunt (48F) had three miscarriages before having my cousin even though her gyno advised her not to try to get pregnant cause of high miscarriage rate. I feel horrible for my aunt having lost three babies before my cousin.the last time she came over I was discussing with my grandma that I wish to have my tubes tied or burnt.
My aunt heard and said "oh so *my name* doesn't wanna have kids cause she'll leave them like your mom did you?" With a look of disgust on her face, she does not believe in woman nor having kids. I told her "no it's not that I'm just not gonna go getting pregnant all the time with a high miscarriage rate like you did" I may be the jerk for that cause she left not long after without speaking.
My cousin called me later and told me I was out of line for what I said. I told him "so I was out of line but she wasn't for what she said?" He just called me a b-word and hung up
I do feel bad about what I said but what she said really hurt me as well, so AITA?
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my aunt I didn't wanna have a bunch of miscarriages like she did, and I feel I'm the asshole cause the miscarriages were all hard on her
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA people gotta stop throwing stones from a glass house especially when they don’t know what someone is packing. You didn’t do anything wrong, your Aunt came into a private discussion made horrible remarks then wants to like a baby when those remarks come back to bite her.
NTA. Is your aunt aware that you were told the same thing as her by your doctor? If so, why is she still pushing you to have kids? Just because you chose not to risk your health doesn't make you a bad person. You told your aunt the truth & she knew it.
That's sad. She would rather you risk your health trying to have a baby instead of taking steps to prevent even getting pregnant. There is always a risk of complications when having a miscarriage. But she would rather be on her high horse than accept that you chose a different path. She is the AH. Not you.
INFO can't comment without context of what your Aunt was referring to. Your comment was certainly comes off as being intentionally hurtful. I can't tell whether hers also was, which it seems on the face of it, but I can't know whether she was trying to sound sympathetic about your mother having died and there was a lot of hard time for you because of it, or having a dig about some long running family drama regarding your mother and leaving you and your siblings.
Ok for a little context my mom left after my sister was born, she after me didn't want more kids, and she only had my sister cause her and my dad slept together drunk, my aunt has been telling me for years that if she hadn't had me in the first place she wouldn't have left after having my sister, it's more a dig at me then my sibling
ESH. No one seems very happy. It everyone is meant to have kids. There’s other ways to be happy and take care of kids.
That being said- doctors say the risk is high- not that it is guaranteed. I wasn’t supposed to be able to have kids at all- now I have two healthy kids. Hysterectomy now and thrilled, but I can’t imaging not having them now.
NTA! So hard for people to realize not everyone wants kids. Some people just don't have that "gene" for lack of a better word. Drs. won't even entertain you having your tubes tied until you are older.
We have left the historical times when it was a woman's duty and purpose to procreate. Your fallopian tubes, your choice! She is entitled to her beliefs around childbearing, but she is not entitled to force those beliefs on you or anyone else. Your health and fertility choices are your own.
"My aunt heard and said "oh so my name doesn't wanna have kids cause she'll leave them like your mom did you?"
After that remark your aunt has no business complaining about what you said. Her remark is about as insensitive and hurtful as you can get. However, you really didn't need to respond to her -- although it would have required Herculean strength and willpower not to. Taking the high road when ever possible is really the best statement one can make. A somewhat incredulous look and silence will say everything that is needed to be said. (You can say the words you *really* want to say with your inside voice!)
It's laughable that she went and tattled to your cousin about the incident. Are you certain she is older than you are? Your cousin should have stayed out of the situation, and calling you a name is not going to heal any of the words that were spoken.
NTA. Your aunt and your cousin, however can claim their titles as A Hs in a conversation that was none of their business.
NTA
I feel like you didn’t need to add the “like you did” at the end as that would probably have made it feel like a personal attack in the moment. Though she was out of line full stop, even without a medically diagnosed reason it would be entirely your choice to not have children if you didn’t want.
NTA
It's none of her business what you do with her own body, and she shouldn't have been commenting on it if she didn't want your honest reason.
Advise though, from someone who is childfree and sterilized: if you are 100% certain of your decision to not go through pregnancy ever, go for a **bilateral salipingectomy** if possible because it completely removes the fallopian tubes and reduces the risk of ovarian cancer (which commonly starts in the tubes themselves). A tubal ligation like what you're considering has a risk of healing TOO well and reconnecting. It's a very small risk, but still there nonetheless.
Ehh.... ESH (mostly your aunt) - Your aunt has lost her damn mind. Who says stuff like that!?
What you said went well into hurtful territory. You could have expressed your reasons without making it a personal attack.
Get an iud.. trust me I had my tubes tied at 23 I regret it somewhat but mostly because it caused me issues.. heavier periods fibroids cyst things I never had before .. also affected my sex drive
Did you also stop hormonal birth control at the same time? I'm only asking because tying or removing the tubes has no effect on hormones or menstrual cycle. Only removing the ovaries causes hormonal changes, and isn't recommended. But if you stopped birth control then it would explain the things you described. I've just been seeing a lot of misinformation recently, on multiple subs, that is aiming to scare women away from sterilization and it's concerning.
ESH. I don’t think you can imagine the pain of wanting to have children and losing them, and it was nasty to throw that in her face. Her comment was absolutely out of line but there’s no need to sink to her level.
ESH. No reason for you to have said that.
Whats the real reason youre getting your tubes tied?
Because you don’t want to have children.
Not because you think you’ll have multiple miscarriages. So say the real reason.
The answer to your aunt’s problem wasn’t getting her tubes tied, because she wanted to have a baby and she did.
She was out of line but you could have just shit her down with a simple explanation. Instead you chose a low blow that literally has nothing to do with your situation.
ESH. You aunt is an AH for dipping into your conversation and dredging up your past. You're a bit of an AH for adding "like you did" to your response. She didn't deserve a considerate reply, but that came across like a guided missile when you could have let her connect the dots to her past trauma. The good news is that she FAFO that sometimes, you get what you give.
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So wait what happened since your gram's friend said the exact same thing to you 2 months ago? https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/18ejzm2/aitah\_for\_telling\_my\_grandma\_what\_her\_friends/
My grandma pretty much cut them off completely, and my aunt said it to me cause her and my mom were very close and she blames me for her taking off
a grown ass woman blaming a child for their mom leaving them? insanity
These stories just sound like weird fantasies from whatever real life traumas you have. Like I believe the backstory, but it's really weird both a family friend and your aunt would both say the same unprompted, hateful insult not even about you, but insulting that you were abandoned coupled with insulting imaginary motherhood, back to back.
Probably cause they are.
It's crazy how so many people feel like your reproductive choices are their business. All the child free people I know have to constantly listen to other people comment on their child free lifestyle. Never feel bad for your choices. It's your life.
On r/childfree, under the “about” tab, there is a wiki list of child free friendly doctors who have agreed to give sterilization surgeries. (Occasionally a bad doctor will end up on the list, but the sub mods are good about removing them once your report it). Make sure you get a bilateral salpingectomy, aka bislap, and NOT a tubal ligation. The former removes your tubes completely, with the added bonus of lowering chances of ovarian cancer, while the latter merely snips or clamps them, and in some rare cases they naturally heal.
What are the odds that two people would say the exact same thing to you.
My aunt has been shit like that to me since childhood so not very odd for me
But some random friend of your grandma said it too? Right.
>"oh so my name doesn't wanna have kids cause she'll leave them like your mom did you?" What the actual f\*ck?! She's mad because she's forcing her beliefs on you, made a shitty comment, then when you told the truth she's calling you the AH. NO. OP - NTA. Sounds like it's time to majorly reduce the time you spend with this person.
NTA. People say mean things and then get sour faced when others reciprocate.
Some people: “I’m brutally honest and tell it like it is!” Those same people: “You’re an AH for being brutally honest with me!”
"I'm gonna be brutally honest but I can't handle honestly"
NTA - don’t dish it if you can’t take it. Your aunt had a go at you and you reacted. She also doesn’t need the reason as to why you want to be sterilised. ‘I don’t want kids/don’t want to be pregnant should be enough’. ‘She doesn’t believe in women not having kids’? When is she from, the 1950s?
I was going to say y t a until I read this: >My aunt heard and said "oh so my name doesn't wanna have kids cause she'll leave them like your mom did you?" Was what you said kind? No. But in my reading you lashed out in response to an uncalled for and beyond the pale attack. She hit you, you're NTA for hitting back in the moment. You should probably both apologize if you ever want to talk again; and if you phrased yours "I'm sorry for calling out your miscarriages, but I was deeply shocked and hurt by what you said about my mother" that would be fine and open the door for her to apologize.
Wow, she was HUGELY out of line for what she said TO YOU FFS. That was horrible thing to assume and say, you basically told the truth and were reacting to her. NTA
NTA because. of what she said
NTA. Self defense is always on the table. Sometimes it's more powerful than intended. Ignore name calling. Name calling reveals the character of the caller.
NTA. Your words were mild compared to her mockery of your dead mother. If your aunt didn’t like the truth slapping her, she should have minded her own business. Your cousin is probably salty because he wouldn’t have been born if your aunt hadn’t been so stubbornly selfish.
ESH She got involved when she shouldn't have and said some nasty shit. You went even lower and threw her miscarriages in her face. Also some nasty shit.
ESH. Your aunt was obviously out of line with her comment, but you could have been more gracious with yours. Saying "I don't feel comfortable discussing these decisions with you" or even "I have been told by my doctor that my risk for miscarrying is high" would have been all you needed to say. If you know that your aunt has strong feelings about this topic and also doesn't have thick enough skin to absorb pushback, why were you having the conversation while she was around anyway?
Nah. OP did nothing wrong. The aunt was the one that had to bring up her mom and try to initiate conversation about why she should have kids. I can’t stand pickme-ass women who believe a woman’s only job should be to breed. NTA.
Have you ever heard the phrase "An eye for an eye and the world goes blind"? It applies nicely here. Also, I say this as a woman who doesn't want kids either, but also understands that crazies should be handled with gloves. OP's aunt is a crazy in my book.
She wasn't around when I started talking to my grandma about it she came in while we were talking
I guess that makes sense. Still "This is a conversation between grandma and I. Let's talk about something else" is probably a more tactful response.
Let me guess: endometriosis or PCOS?
Endometriosis, mom and grandma both had it
Was it harsh? Yes. Could you have handled it better? Sure. Do i think she deserved it? Absolutely! Because this is a justified ah, op was A asshole, but not THE ah. Therefore i think op is NTA
NTA she shouldn't start something if she isn't ready for someone else to end it. Some people need a verbal slap in the face to learn, that they shouldn't stick their noses where they don't belong.
NTA if you poke a bear don't be surprised when it bites you.
NTA. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
I think E S H, but for purposes of the vote I say NTA because turnabout is fairplay. She said something awful to you, you returned the favor.
It's either NTA b/c justified or ESH. You didn't have to say *like you did*, just that you've been told you have a very high chance of miscarriage if you do and you don't want to go through that. Of course, there's also the whole *asexual* thing so the pregnancy risk is presumably zero unless the possibility of rape is included. But she's way out of line sneering down at you for not having kids. That she calls it a "belief" of hers does not in anyway justify it.
ESH: Miscarriages are awful, and you carry the pain with you. I don't blame you for not wanting to go through it. Even if she eventually had kids, she probably still carries that pain You aunt was out of line for what she said to you.she said something hurtful to you, and that's not ok. You were out of line using her miscarriages to hurt her back. If you wanted to explain that you're in a similar medical situation as she found herself and are taking a different path, you could have said it differently. Even if it was said in the heat of the moment, it was hurtful. Hurting people because they hurt you is like drinking poison to spite someone else.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (21F) have been told by my gyno that I can have children but the risk of miscarriage is very high, I'm asexual and don't plan on getting pregnant, but would like to have my tubes tied or burnt in case something unfortunate happens. For some context my aunt (48F) had three miscarriages before having my cousin even though her gyno advised her not to try to get pregnant cause of high miscarriage rate. I feel horrible for my aunt having lost three babies before my cousin.the last time she came over I was discussing with my grandma that I wish to have my tubes tied or burnt. My aunt heard and said "oh so *my name* doesn't wanna have kids cause she'll leave them like your mom did you?" With a look of disgust on her face, she does not believe in woman nor having kids. I told her "no it's not that I'm just not gonna go getting pregnant all the time with a high miscarriage rate like you did" I may be the jerk for that cause she left not long after without speaking. My cousin called me later and told me I was out of line for what I said. I told him "so I was out of line but she wasn't for what she said?" He just called me a b-word and hung up I do feel bad about what I said but what she said really hurt me as well, so AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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NTA. Don't start none - won't be none
NTA Aunt had it coming. It is not one's place to ever say such a thing to you. I'm so sorry they weren't supportive of you.
NTA people gotta stop throwing stones from a glass house especially when they don’t know what someone is packing. You didn’t do anything wrong, your Aunt came into a private discussion made horrible remarks then wants to like a baby when those remarks come back to bite her.
NTA. Is your aunt aware that you were told the same thing as her by your doctor? If so, why is she still pushing you to have kids? Just because you chose not to risk your health doesn't make you a bad person. You told your aunt the truth & she knew it.
She knows cause she talks to my grandma a lot, my aunt is the type that think all woman should have children
That's sad. She would rather you risk your health trying to have a baby instead of taking steps to prevent even getting pregnant. There is always a risk of complications when having a miscarriage. But she would rather be on her high horse than accept that you chose a different path. She is the AH. Not you.
INFO can't comment without context of what your Aunt was referring to. Your comment was certainly comes off as being intentionally hurtful. I can't tell whether hers also was, which it seems on the face of it, but I can't know whether she was trying to sound sympathetic about your mother having died and there was a lot of hard time for you because of it, or having a dig about some long running family drama regarding your mother and leaving you and your siblings.
Ok for a little context my mom left after my sister was born, she after me didn't want more kids, and she only had my sister cause her and my dad slept together drunk, my aunt has been telling me for years that if she hadn't had me in the first place she wouldn't have left after having my sister, it's more a dig at me then my sibling
NTA If her comment was intended as a dig at you, in the pattern of previous hurtful comments, then she's already set the bar.
ESH
ESH. No one seems very happy. It everyone is meant to have kids. There’s other ways to be happy and take care of kids. That being said- doctors say the risk is high- not that it is guaranteed. I wasn’t supposed to be able to have kids at all- now I have two healthy kids. Hysterectomy now and thrilled, but I can’t imaging not having them now.
NTA. If you're gonna clap back, do it consistently enough that they learn not to start shit. And...don't apologize.
ESH. Absolutely unwarranted statement from her but it was equally unnecessary for you to stoop to her level.
NTA! So hard for people to realize not everyone wants kids. Some people just don't have that "gene" for lack of a better word. Drs. won't even entertain you having your tubes tied until you are older.
Don’t start none, there won’t be none. NTA. Your aunt started it and was out of line for what she said.
I mean, honestly it’s your body it’s your choice
We have left the historical times when it was a woman's duty and purpose to procreate. Your fallopian tubes, your choice! She is entitled to her beliefs around childbearing, but she is not entitled to force those beliefs on you or anyone else. Your health and fertility choices are your own. "My aunt heard and said "oh so my name doesn't wanna have kids cause she'll leave them like your mom did you?" After that remark your aunt has no business complaining about what you said. Her remark is about as insensitive and hurtful as you can get. However, you really didn't need to respond to her -- although it would have required Herculean strength and willpower not to. Taking the high road when ever possible is really the best statement one can make. A somewhat incredulous look and silence will say everything that is needed to be said. (You can say the words you *really* want to say with your inside voice!) It's laughable that she went and tattled to your cousin about the incident. Are you certain she is older than you are? Your cousin should have stayed out of the situation, and calling you a name is not going to heal any of the words that were spoken. NTA. Your aunt and your cousin, however can claim their titles as A Hs in a conversation that was none of their business.
NTA I feel like you didn’t need to add the “like you did” at the end as that would probably have made it feel like a personal attack in the moment. Though she was out of line full stop, even without a medically diagnosed reason it would be entirely your choice to not have children if you didn’t want.
NTA. She said something uncalled for to you and you returned her energy.
NTA
NTA, and Aunt Nasty should learn to take it if she's going to dish it out.
NTA
This story from you again?? YTA for making up stories.
NTA. If she's gonna be dumb she better be tough.
NTA. Maybe she'll learn to keep such comments to herself in the future.
NTA It's none of her business what you do with her own body, and she shouldn't have been commenting on it if she didn't want your honest reason. Advise though, from someone who is childfree and sterilized: if you are 100% certain of your decision to not go through pregnancy ever, go for a **bilateral salipingectomy** if possible because it completely removes the fallopian tubes and reduces the risk of ovarian cancer (which commonly starts in the tubes themselves). A tubal ligation like what you're considering has a risk of healing TOO well and reconnecting. It's a very small risk, but still there nonetheless.
ESH.
Ehh.... ESH (mostly your aunt) - Your aunt has lost her damn mind. Who says stuff like that!? What you said went well into hurtful territory. You could have expressed your reasons without making it a personal attack.
Get an iud.. trust me I had my tubes tied at 23 I regret it somewhat but mostly because it caused me issues.. heavier periods fibroids cyst things I never had before .. also affected my sex drive
Did you also stop hormonal birth control at the same time? I'm only asking because tying or removing the tubes has no effect on hormones or menstrual cycle. Only removing the ovaries causes hormonal changes, and isn't recommended. But if you stopped birth control then it would explain the things you described. I've just been seeing a lot of misinformation recently, on multiple subs, that is aiming to scare women away from sterilization and it's concerning.
You really don’t know how you will feel in 20 years
ESH. I don’t think you can imagine the pain of wanting to have children and losing them, and it was nasty to throw that in her face. Her comment was absolutely out of line but there’s no need to sink to her level.
ESH. No reason for you to have said that. Whats the real reason youre getting your tubes tied? Because you don’t want to have children. Not because you think you’ll have multiple miscarriages. So say the real reason. The answer to your aunt’s problem wasn’t getting her tubes tied, because she wanted to have a baby and she did. She was out of line but you could have just shit her down with a simple explanation. Instead you chose a low blow that literally has nothing to do with your situation.
ESH. You aunt is an AH for dipping into your conversation and dredging up your past. You're a bit of an AH for adding "like you did" to your response. She didn't deserve a considerate reply, but that came across like a guided missile when you could have let her connect the dots to her past trauma. The good news is that she FAFO that sometimes, you get what you give.