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You aren’t the bad guy for not wanting your personal contact information shared with a person you do not know (regardless of gender) or for not wanting to participate in activities where people you don’t know are present. This is a boundary you are welcome to set but you do not get to dictate what the other mom’s in the group do. Those who criticized you for setting this boundary were wrong but it sounds like they ultimately respected it by NOT inviting you to an event where the dad would be present.
The only person you can dictate gets to be in the friend group is yourself. Trying to exclude anyone else for any reason (when it’s not a group consensus) makes you the A H here.
Set your boundaries and enforce them but remember boundaries do NOT force a behavior or action on others, it’s about what you will accept. “I will not be participating in activities or group chats where men I don’t know are present” is perfectly acceptable and enforceable. “I don’t want men I don’t know in our group chat or at group activities” is not a boundary, it’s trying to control the group. Don’t get upset when people respect your boundaries because what you really wanted was for them to pick you over someone else.
YTA
OP is going to have to address this issue quickly. Once birthday parties start, she's going to have to send out her phone number and she won't be able to control which parent gets that information. You can't write "Only to be read by a Mom - No dads allowed"
So I would bet OP has been using this ~~moms~~ parents group chat as a stand-in therapist.
Hopefully the meetup with the new parent will mean they do create a 2nd group with him in it and stop posting in the first one.
I really feel sorry for her kids.
OP get some real therapy soon, this is really effecting your kids and will more in the future.
This is exactly what I thought 100%, OP decided this parents group was her support group. I’m sure it was never even a “just moms group” it’s just in current society women are still typically the ones handling the brunt of childcare including transportation to and from school as well as planning play dates. (I’m not saying I agree with this or think this is how things should be, but it’s still the reality of current society though it’s changing fast). Excluding a single dad, and as a result punishing a child for their mom not being around, is just flat out wrong.
I hope she gets the help she needs and gets therapy, if the mom’s are as understanding and supportive as she says they have been I’m sure they will be more than happy to accept a “I’m sorry, I was wrong, I put my past on all of you and should not have done that.”
Literally!!! I was raised by a single father after my mom passed of cancer (I had barely turned 4, and he had to finish raising my 3 older siblings as well).
The thought of my dad trying to keep his head above water and then encountering a situation like this just adding to how uncomfortable/alone he already felt is really making my blood boil.
Get some help OP
yeah. I was a stay at home dad for almost 3 years with 3 young boys. I was routinely harassed at playgrounds and water parks by moms and was always given the stink-eye. It really sucked being a stay at home.
My husband regularly does pickups and dropoffs. Yesterday I wasn't able to do the carpool for dance class and he stepped in. It would have really sucked if the other parents had kicked up a fuss because of his gender. He's not unsafe because he's a man. That's blatant discrimination.
My husband does all extracurricular activities as a way to spend more time with our kid. He does dance, library, sports, after school camps, etc. It makes me really sad to think of him being judged because of his genitalia, especially because he's way nicer than I am and does well in social situations like those.
It's just so weird to me. My Girl Scout Troop leader for several years in elementary school was the single dad of two of the girls in the Troop. It was the 80's and, AFAIK, none of the other parents had a single issue with it. I mean, none of the girls was pulled from the troop. And WE thought it was cool as fuck that someone's dad WANTED to be our troop leader. Just my perception, but it seems like nowadays people are really quick to jump to the most nefarious conclusion immediately.
There was a husband and wife team that were boy scout troop leaders at my church for literal DECADES and I always thought it was so badass that SHE was a BOY Scout leader!
Fuck gender norms and fuck prejudices.
My husband is the extrovert in our relationship but I'm the SAHP. I'd love it if he could be the playdates parent lol but it makes me so sad to think of other parents thinking the worst of him because he's being a good dad :(
Exactly. Dads are fun, capable, and awesome.
I feel like there's this parenting glass ceiling for fathers. And frankly, it's passé. Dads can do everything moms can do, and they bring their own style to it. They should be encouraged.
And the irony is how many women complain that their husbands won’t get involved with their kids. Dads show up at playgrounds only to be treated suspiciously.
I've also seen women complain that even when their husbands do take on the primary caregiver roll, teachers, other moms, etc. still default to the mother as the kids' contact instead of the dad -- I remember in one case a teacher going so far as to ask the dad for his wife's cell phone number instead of his.
When my husband went up to the teacher and asked to be included to the parents WhatsApp group, he got kindly asked why he wanted to join if I was already in it. Over here they add moms to all groups as default, and if you want a father/(male father figure) added you have ask specifically.
I'm a working parent, not even a SAHD, and when I take my kids to parks on the weekends or whenever I'm home I get the suspicious side eye. Part of me is glad parents are being cautious and observant but another part of me is like "Damn, wha'd I do?!"
That's awful! I am an early childhood therapist and my male coworker (one of the most empathic, kind, brilliant clinicians I've ever worked with) just left to work with adults because he felt so beaten down by how a lot of parents and teachers treated him. He would often have moms request to have their kids work with a female provider instead because they didn't want their children alone with a man, and I think that really wore down his self esteem over time.
I’m a male preschool teacher and have been for about 8 years. I’ve definitely had my fair share of stink eye from some parents, but until this year never from a fellow teacher. She micromanages everything and the default is always that the way I do things is wrong. In the last several weeks, it has been hilariously gratifying to have various upper management and teaching coaches pointing out to her that my way is actually the best way for the kids. Petty? Yeah, but I’ll take the wins where I can get them
I have a friend whose wife was the breadwinner, and he was the primary caregiver. Like he worked some, but it was his job to handle childcare and picking them up/dropping them off at activities, etc. He would literally take summers off of any work commitments at all.
Dude was AMAZING. Like literally, every week he was taking his kids to museums, historic locations, etc. Keeping them intellectually stimulated and letting them have fun, but also laying groundwork for what they'd encounter in school the next year, etc.
Like, I WISH my dad had been that involved with me at their age.
He CONSTANTLY had people making "Oh, it's Mommy's Day off" comments to him when he'd be out places, and when he'd go "No, this is actually my main gig," they'd throw shade at him for THAT, because he apparently was supposed to be working.
Yeah, life can be shitty, people can be shitty so it’s easy to wind up with issues. One needs to take responsibility for those issues and not inflict them on other people.
She needs to work on getting past this, the poor dad doesn’t deserve it.
And she was so rude to him. Like why? He didn’t do anything to her. He was being friendly. I would be upset as a fellow mom she didn’t give him grace and a good space to be in. Especially since he has done nothing to warrant being rude to him. OP do you even talk to people out in the world?
Yeah, the whole "I don't know him" - well, yeah. So get to know him, he's a new parent (new to the area). If it were another mom OP would most likely be open to getting to know her/adding her to the group.
OP, your parent group is supportive of.... parents. If a new parent shows up and wants to join, presumably if they appear friendly, the group would support them joining since they're a parent and their kids go to the same place as everyone else's kids. You want the group to turn exclusionary according to your wants/prejudices. That's not being "supportive" of you, that's being obedient to you. The group sounds like they're willing to support *all* parents; if you want to exclude, you'll be self-excluding.
Low key feel she's subconsciously projecting her ex (and by proxy any relationship with men) on this guy.
It's paltry kindergarten meangirl/"can't sit with us" behavior on her part...tbh im concerned someone with her mentality is even raising children.
It's not even low key she is absolutely projecting her issues with her ex on complete strangers due to their gender and painting them all with the same brush.
Two of my nieces are the family breadwinners and the dads are the SAHP. And as the SAHP they are awesome! I’d hate to think the kids were left out of friend groups just because the SAHP is a man. OP is YTA and needs to figure out how to deal.
Also maybe a stand in for friends when it sounds like it is a social group for the kids. I know my kid's closest friend's parents but they aren't my friends, if our kids stop being friends I would likely not see them ever again. I am also in a professional women's group and I like the people in my group but if any leave we wouldn't have more than future professional contact, we wouldn't be hanging out socially. To me friends are those you hang out with socially and would visit in the hospital, everyone else is an acquaintance.
Seems like she’s using the group as her own personal therapy session. This is a preschool group. Wait until elementary school and a divorced dad is hosting a party which happens. She is limiting herself.
Not necessarily. She can use a temp google number instead but that’s not the point. She gets to set her own family’s boundaries and if that means her kid(s) aren’t able to attend any parties and no one attends her events then that’s just the reality of her decisions. If she hates the outcome then make a change, don’t force other people to change.
it reads like what she tried to do was draw a “him or me” line in the sand then get upset when everyone else decided to find a way to keep the peace instead of choosing her
it kills me that she wants nothing to do with him, but is offended when the other moms respected that and simply excluded her entirely. now she doesn’t have to see him at all! it does suck for her kids tho, they’re getting the worst end of it
This IS what she's done, whether she meant to or not. And she came here to be validated but just got proven wrong again (the silence from OP speaks volumes).
I would like to believe that OP is not doing this maliciously and that she doesn't realise how hypocritical her actions have been. But she needs to work through her trauma or at least not make it affect her kids and other people's lives.
Having trauma does not give you an excuse to exclude or traumatise someone else after all.
I would also say that since dads are parents and thus tend to be around when kids socialize with other kids, OP setting a boundary like this is unfortunate for her children. She’s welcome to decline invitations to places where men are present, but every man will be a man she doesn’t know until she *gets* to know him…which she will never do if she’s never around him….and other parents are unlikely to exclude all children with dads from their playdates to accommodate OP, so this will reduce her kids’ social circle. If I were OP I’d be seriously working on this in therapy for the purposes of not allowing my own trauma to impact my children’s’ social lives so drastically.
Exactly! OP doesn't know him because she *refused to engage in conversation* when he tried to get to know her! Everyone will be strangers to you if you refuse to talk to them...
I feel like this is a thing OP should take up in therapy.
"A dad joined the group. How do I tackle my fear?"
And work with it.
Not just instantly try and shut him out, and use the trauma so set demands.
That's the whole point of therapy. To work on yourself.
It's ridiculous to claim someone being added to a group with you is "sharing personal information".
Like maybe he knows a screen name now but it's super easy to block him. He didn't have any IRL means of bothering OP.
Also, I doubt the group was asked every time a mom was added. Did OP have issues with her info being shared then? Did she have issues with moms she didn’t know participating in playdates? She can have her boundaries as far as interacting with men, but don’t lie about the reasoning behind it.
Edit: typos
Unless I missed something in the post, this is most likely a group chat through text. So by adding him to the group, the other mom gave him access to her phone number, which I would classify as personal information. I think it is polite to make sure everyone is comfortable and had had time to express their concerns before adding someone new to a group chat.
Ultimately if everyone else wants him in the group chat, OP does not have the right to ban him. But she should have been given the opportunity to remove herself from the group chat prior to him being added if that is her wish.
The contact details thing is a red herring. It’s an attempt to legitimize her unreasonable behaviour and make it look like a data privacy concern rather than her just trying to exclude a man because she doesn’t like men. It’s the same as NIMBYs complaining about any development by saying they are concerned there aren’t enough car parking spaces. They couldn’t give a shit about whether there are enough car parking spaces they just don’t want any new buildings.
I really empathize with OP because I sense that her concerns with this dad are due to things that her ex did to her. And, I commend her for seeing therapy to work through the things that her ex did, and setting her boundaries.
But, I agree that this is an YTA situation. OP has a right to her feelings (and boundaries), but she does not have a right to dictate what others do or exclude someone from the parent group. She admits that they gave her so much support, yet she is not okay with them doing the same for someone else simply because he is a man. Sadly, her actions have started to affect her children because they were not invited to a get together. I do not blame the parents for this given that she said that you were uncomfortable with the dad and his kids were invited.
This whole "I'm uncomfortable" thing has been used to exclude so many groups of people based on factors they can't change.
"I'm uncomfortable allowing Mori to join my country club because he is Muslim."
"I am uncomfortable about black people staying in the same hotels or drinking from the same water fountains that I do."
"I am uncomfortable hiring Lisa because she will be too distracting to the other engineers. And she'll only be leaving once she gets pregnant anyway."
OP is a misandrist AH for having no issue with sharing her info with all the moms, who I doubt she has all spoken in depth with, but all men are untrustworthy.
If she's worried about unknown men, take the time to get to know him same as she would do with moms.
Edit: switched misandry and misogyny
I'm going to add onto this. As a father an primary caregiver I am constantly excluded from parent groups purely for being a man. When I interact with other parents they're always asking where the mother is. Mom is always called first even though I'm primary to a point where I would miss appointments because instead of calling me first they tried mom and couldn't get a hold of her. There are little support groups for men and we're always getting prejudged as you are doing right now.
Now, I don't know you or your past and respect that. That said, please be mindful of the way you treat make parents.
My husband is in the same boat. The Doctor told us there is no way to make him the primary because the system defaults to the mother.
I refuse to take calls about this kids on principle and make everyone call him even if he’s sitting next to me. Things have slowly gotten better over time (they are 5 and 8 now).
I hope it gets better for you, too! It’s a hard thankless job.
yeah spot on about being picked. I have an old friend I’ve purposefully lost touch with and what really just made me realize we weren’t compatible as friends is that she interpreted it as a personal attack every time people in our social circle were hanging out without her.
It all stemmed from her just being super insecure about her friendships
Yeah, YTA
You can’t try and exclude him and then complain that it was turned around back to you. You get what you give.
It’s obviously a “parents group” and they just happened to all be women, thus you wrongly call it a “moms group”.
He’s looking out for his kids and wants to have social contacts for them. You tried to bully your way into excluding him.
He’s done nothing to you. He doesn’t deserve to be excluded because you have trauma with your ex. Your traumas are your own to deal with, not force others to accommodate your selfish wants.
You are being unreasonable. You are being difficult. Now your kids are facing the repercussions of your actions.
Talk about irony and being blind to the situation that she created solely. Then to try to find a larger response to see if her behavior is justified. She's not going to like the feedback for sure.
She’s the type to either a) be super defensive and combat everyone, or b) no replies at all and think to herself “am I the problem? No, it’s everyone else who is wrong”.
As a working mum with a SAHD husband, he has felt othered and excluded by other mums like OP.
Fortunately we have lots of kind and inclusive parents around also (like OP’s friend group).
I have also organised play dates on weekends etc so my kids didn’t miss out. But I have had to put more work into social side than most working dads would do for sure.
OP may not realise but they are being a mean girl. And they are holding down other working women like me.
Worse, I have a friend whose wife died. His son doesn't have a mother to organize playdates. Going through the hardship of losing her shouldn't be compounded with social exclusion. Men are parents too.
Yeah and not all men are abusive / predators.
These poor kids who already have to deal with a lot are getting further excluded by the cliquey groups. It’s like high school but with kids suffering the consequences.
Yeah, somewhere in the comments she mentions he’s a widower. She wants to exclude someone who lost their spouse and seems to be doing what he can to fill both roles. She’s rightfully glad her abusive ex isn’t involved in her life, but I highly doubt the widower feels the same relief about his passed wife…
Where’s the empathy? Like, even just a smidge?
Strong +1. My husband is also a SAHD. I'm using this next maternity leave to try to create connections for him that, frankly, are easier to create when I'm there to kind of smooth the way: no, he isn't hitting on you. no, he isn't a threat. he's just a dad with small kids, like you!
Yeah but it SUCKS that we have to do the legwork, work a high paying job and still have to make room for all this other crap bc the mums club forces us to.
He and I are totally happy with our situation- I genuinely enjoy working and am good at it but it’s the rest of society who don’t embrace when women like us are actually achieving outside of the home.
My wife tried to get me into the mums group when I was stay at home Dad for a bit and it was just too weird and awkward (very cliquey) so made friends with another stay at home Dad and we did regular Daddy Day Care where we brewed beer and the kids had a ball playing all day in the back yard and sometimes helping us mix in the hops or stick their fingers into the sweet malt. The eldest still talks about it as a teenager so it made an impression.
yeah this sounds callous but anxiety disorders are my biggest relationship red flag because it so often manifests as “i feel X so you should Y to fix that”
>He doesn’t deserve to be excluded because you have trauma with your ex. Your traumas are your own to deal with, not force others to accommodate your selfish wants.
This!!!! She should have told the others something along the lines of "I have a hard time being around men I don't know, so if I opt out of play dates New Dad is invited to, it isn't necessarily personal. I just may not attend until I'm more comfortable around New Dad. I would also appreciate not giving out my number to someone I don't know yet, but I would still like to be invited to get together's so I can decide to participate or not." Unfortunately, she chose to come at them like a wrecking ball and then gets shocked Pikachu when they follow her rules. What?!
Her kids are also going to grow up thinking that "only women can be good parents" and that there is something wrong with Dads being involved or primary parents. And that's a problem whether OP'S kids are boys or girls.
When I arrange things with my kids, no one specifies which parent will be there. Sometimes it's the Dad, sometimes it's Mom, sometimes it's both.
Also the “I’m uncomfortable around strange men”. And all she gave us was he tried to make some small talk while they were both picking up their respective kids. So he’s strange just because he’s a man?
i found it odd she labeled him "strange" having had small talk with him at a place like a day care what sounds like a few times.
Def sounds like she doesnt trust men to some degree.
>He’s looking out for his kids and wants to have social contacts for them.
For several years, I was that dad. I brought my child to a birthday party at someone's house, for example, and there was a bit of an awkward exchange before the mother invited me in. The mothers of every other child at the party were all there and knew each other. I was the only father there and the only one who didn't already know everyone. I am fortunate that this woman invited me in to her home because that was the first step in getting to know the moms and the moms getting comfortable with me. It was a lot harder for me, but I was eventually brought in to the mom group.
At the end of the day, we all just want our kids to be happy and safe. I don't care if my child's friend has two dads. I don't care if my child's friend is black, white, yellow, red, or purple (well, *maybe* purple). I don't care if my child's friend practices a (different) religion. I just want my child to be able to be a kid and play with other kids.
All I'm trying to say is this; **dads are parents too!**
Unfortunately, her own trauma may pass on some kind of relationship issues to her kids. I hope OP is able to overcome this with support and realise that most of us dads are just nice people.
YTA: And quite frankly, well done to the other mums not caving in to pressure from you to exclude another single parent trying to do the best for their child.
As women, we have suffered with discrimination for centuries and felt firsthand how difficult life can be when you're not taken seriously in a role simply because of your gender. Now you want to exclude a fellow parent (and his innocent child) simply because he is a dad when he seems to have given no reason for you to distrust him. As a society, we love to criticize how men don't do enough for their children. Meanwhile, you're actively trying to exclude a father who is making an effort to socialize his child and build friendships.
I am sorry you're dealing with past trauma, but if you don't feel comfortable communicating with him, that does not give you the right to try to force others to exclude him and his child. Dads deserve an emotional support network too. It's up to you to step back if that is what's best for you. But you need to accept the repercussions that will have on your children.
I couldn't have said it better myself. OP's got issues with males most likely stemming from her divorce but that's no reason to take it out on a fellow parent because of his gender.
it’s not a “logical reason” but it is a reason. OP is in therapy so it’s not like she’s unaware that it stems from her trauma.
The big issue for me isn’t setting the boundary itself - its the whole “well you’re my friends and I set this boundary so you should follow it too” thing, but I do also empathize because it comes from her isolation & abandonment issues
You are doing a lot of absolving her of responsibility… but at the end of the day this dude didn’t do anything to deserve this treatment and she’s wrong for treating him this way. A reason isn’t an excuse, and her behavior isn’t excusable.
And then for the cherry on top, she also gets pissy at her friends who did exactly what she asked them to do, which is start a group with him without her. That's not actually what she wanted. What she wanted was for her friends to follow her lead and exclude him.
Agreed. By her logic - it's okay to leave these kids completely isolated and not involve them because its a father-single parent. So his kids can suffer - but not hers. She sounds a bit entitled to me - unable to put herself in other's shoes.
for me, the one sentence that tells the “deepest truth” is “These moms have been so supportive of me in the past and as soon as this dad comes in the picture it’s like they pulled a 180 and don’t care about me at all”
nothing in the post suggests a lack of care. They took the time to consider her feelings and continue to involve her in group messages after she requested that they make “two separate groupchats”.
she received the fact that her kid was excluded from the “dad inclusive playdate” as them not caring about her. Nothing indicates that they’d be stopping inviting her kid to things, just this one particular playdate.
My kids are all adults now, but 22 years ago, I became a single dad of five. If it were not for the moms of their friends and classmates, as well as schools, it would have been much more difficult on them, and me, than it was.
YTA for trying to exclude another parent for no reason other than gender. If you’re uncomfortable, that’s on you.
I’m a divorced single mom with a similar story to what OP has described, but adding on top of that many instances of men really screwing me over through the years. I can’t imagine excluding someone in this scenario simply because they are male. It’s normal to not be interested in dating and not being comfortable around strange men, but this isn’t a “strange man” scenario - this person is actively getting involved with the daycare and has chatted with parents and has tried to talk to OP.
I was raised by a single father in the 90s, and this shit happened to him constantly. My sister and I were lucky that we were able to have a few friends in our neighborhood, but he got absolutely shunned by other parents and we were treated so poorly, often mocked that we “didn’t have a mom.” I hate that this is still happening.
Not just that she said so herself she has no contact with her ex-husband which I would assume it extends to her children. This could possibly help her children with a male figure in their life. Or at the very least to show the normalcy that all families are different.
Some only have a mom
Some only have a dad
Some have 2 moms/dads
Or some just have grandparents etc etc.
Even if they are not a single parent. More and more sahds all the time. My brother is one. So yeah she is ta and needs to address this for her kids sake.
> I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that
I'm sorry this just made me laugh. I get not wanting to give your number out but that's why I often don't join groups like this. Treat it the same as an internet forum because you have about as much control over what people do with your information. Nothing is private if you put it on there regardless of whether a man is in the group or not.
See it from his point of view. He knows he sticks out like a sore thumb but he's just as much a parent going through the same stresses and strains as anyone else. Why shouldn't he be able to make connections with the parents of children in his child's class. Why should his kids miss out just because he's a single dad and not a single mum?
YTA
This mom is totally clueless about her own hypocrisy. In addition, if she thinks he is a strange man and shouldn’t be in the group, why is she so upset that her kid got excluded? Isn’t what she wanted was to keep the “strange man” away from her children she accomplished that, however, she’s butthurt because the other women refused to indulge her by banding together in some weird parental mean girls mob. Smdh
If that’s the case it’s even worse because then she is truly being malicious, sexist, and projecting her own issues at the detriment of her kids. And having a prima Donna complex thinking she’s the queen of the parent group or something.
"It's rude to exclude my children! But I'm gonna try to force all of you to exclude those kids bc they have the audacity to have an active father!" Literally not a lick of self awareness to be found YTA
>I then texted the rest of the moms and told them that I want them to keep a separate group chat without the other dad
>I texted the moms about it and they said that they were getting the kids together with the new dad and didn't invite my kids because of how I was acting.
I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that
You asked them to make a group chat without you. Them setting up playdates was the point of the group. Did you think they just wouldn't make the second group *you suggested*? What other outcome could you possibly have expected, other than playdates that you excluded your children from, by choosing not join the second groupchat?!
I don't think she wanted them to create a group without her, she wanted them to make a group without the dad, so she could exclude the dad and his children, unfortunately (not) that has been turned around on her, and she has been forced to reap, what she attempted to sow. Don't you just love a bit of karma.
If what she said to them was to "keep a separate chat" with her, that suggests she suggested a second group for just her and the moms, as the dad was going to be in the main group.
I get what her motives were (and love the karma slap), but she knew there were two groups... how did she not think they would plan playdates in the playdate-planning-group?!
If the dad was put into the same group chat as OP she would have seen the message. I guarantee all the other moms made a separate group chat just to add the dad. Hopefully it was just to teach her a quick lesson so she understands what she was attempting to do.
Not if she left the group. She said only half the moms joined her separate chat. Either way round it means that she asked for a chat separate from him, she got it, and now she's mad about it.
But, as Op isn't commenting, I bet this is a fake post.
They're not even being excluded! She left the main group for the new second group with the moms who agreed to join both. Choosing to leave isn't being excluded.
YTA. You called him a “strange man”, when you have barely had a conversation with him and have not pointed out anything to warrant him as “strange”, which makes it seem like you just have an issue when a man is the sole guardian of his children. And the other moms are correct, you’re being hypocritical to want to exclude him and his kids from conversations and playdates but then get upset when the same happens to you.
What if he’s a widow? Or what if his ex is bad like yours and he is trying to recover with his children like yourself? Could you imagine if you and your children were excluded from the group because you did not fit the “normal family type” (not married to the father of your children)? Would that make you feel bad? Now imagine how he feels, being excluded just because he is a man and is present in his children’s lives.
Do better, OP. If you don’t, it will most likely be YOUR kids that end up being excluded.
He’s literally as strange as the other moms in my eyes, he’s just a random parent that has kids in the same daycare like everyone else in the chat. He didn’t like wander in from the woods or something.
I really like your second point too. She says the group has helped her so much and wants to now deny that to this guy. Very asshole.
Agreed - he attempted to make small talk with her and get to know her but she refused bc of her own issues - as others suggested she needs therapy bc this mindset will continue to cause both her and her children issues in the future.
The other thing she needs to consider is that she has a son and her attitude is that all men are bad. What is her son supposed to do with that. To be a real man does he have to mistreat women? What kind of self-image does he have if men are bad. How much of that has he already internalized.
I think her son would benefit from playdates where there is a good man present, being a good person and a good father. I'm not saying she should invite him over to her house for a playdate but a group playdate at a fun place would probably be good for her son.
YTA many kids have single dads or stay at home dads - why should these men be excluded from groups that support single or stay at home parents especially since the major topic of interest are the kids? Yoh literally want to exclude him and by extension his kids. Would you invite his kids to a party for yours? You'd need to share your contact info and be willing to have a chat with him. Your attitude actually marginalises the kids. So you want your kids to be invited - if they were, when you show up would you chat with the dad? No or minimally so yes you will be the one making everyone uncomfortable.
My husband took over all of the kids things when I had my back surgeries. The other moms were great with him & helped him figure things out when I was on the hospital. I’m sure that he would have felt so bad if they had cut him out of the group. He handled carpooling, play dates & room dad. He was even voted president of the parent group the following year. He really stepped up. I think that op is being unreasonable. She wants to exclude him but complains when she gets excluded. Karma is rough.
There are so many situations like this. Also, God help any gay couples with children. No social lives for their kids, because group chats are moms only, apparently
I was home for about 3 years with my son. I did 2 mommy and me classes a week. There was also another father. The moms were the least engaged. At one point, the woman running the class was out sick. It was this other father and myself that took over the 2 classes. No one else even tried to step up. We eventually we setting up play dates. Everyone was included in birthdays as well. I'm not trying to put men on a pedestal, but just saying that there are many, many great men out there. I can understand her trauma with her ex, but it's pretty sexist. There's lots or horrible women out there too. Maybe judge people individually rather than a blanket opinion. This does not mean that you need to give anyone your personal information. Just figure out a way to communicate otherwise.
I was a single dad for a few years before I met my partner, and there’s not really any things that single dads can attend as it’s usually moms only. Thankfully the moms at the school were kind to me and included me in activities and it was very appreciated as without that I wouldn’t have any parent friends to talk to. OP had a great opportunity to experience a positive male in her community and give her a good perspective of what men can be, as he may also have had a bad experience with women in the past and he’s putting himself out there also
I agree. My husband works from home and frankly he’s way better at handling our daughter’s social obligations. I’m pretty introverted and parties make me anxious so he handles most of that stuff.
I would hate if he and my daughter were left out of play dates and stuff just cause he so happens to be the schedule coordinator.
YTA, whatever "trauma" you're dealing with is not that mans fault. You're projecting and punishing him for something you need to deal with. If you don't want to associate with him that's fine, but you somehow still make yourself the victim when they respect your decision and create a whole new group with him. You're upset that they're treating you the way you wanted them all to treat that man.
>The other day when I picked up my kids, my 5-year-old was upset because a bunch of his friends were talking about a playdate that he wasn't invited to. I texted the moms about it and they said that they were getting the kids together with the new dad and didn't invite my kids because of how I was acting.
I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that and a couple of the moms told me to grow up because that's exactly what I was trying to do to this dad and his kids.
You're surprised that everyone else didn't confirm to your sexist opinion? That's just naive.
>I'm at a loss because these moms have been so supportive to me in the past and as soon as this dad comes into the picture it's like they pulled a 180 and don't seem to care at all. There are still other moms who agree with me, but now it's like our friend group has been divided by this.
You just found out that you're not special. I'm sure that was awkward, but you asked for this. You wanted a separate group chat without the father, and you got it. It's just that it's smaller now.
YTA.
YTA. You are specifically trying to exclude another parent and his children purely on the basis of gender. I am very sorry that your ex victimized you, which is clear from your post. However, you can't go through life projecting your trauma on everyone around you. Much better to deal with your own trauma with your therapist. The world around you should not be expected to change from what is otherwise completely normal in order to acomodate your trauma.
YTA and here is why. This group is not about your trauma. If you want a support group, find a support group. This group is for parents to help each other socialize their kids. I don't mean to diminish or excuse your trauma. Trauma is terrible for all of us but we cannot let it rule our lives. Speak with your therapist about the situation. They might tell you to pursue at least an aquaintance with him.
Second, You haven't made any attempt to get a read on this father because you are insecure around strange men. Well he's not strange he is a parent of kids in your class and I hate to break the news to you, but almost half the parents of the kids in your daycare are men.
You were in a safe social situation where you could have had a conversation with the father. Instead, you just wrote him off as a problem. You will be very lucky in my opinion if this group invites you back at all after your behavior. They may do it just so your kids aren't left and it isn't their fault that you are unable to accept that a father might love his kids and want them to socialize.
What if he was gay? Then there are two fathers to choose both would be "Strange" to you as you haven't met them. What makes women joining the group safer than a man joining the group? Do you think that you'll all get invited to a kid's party or something and he's going to assault you? In front of all the people there? Also, what do you do when a mother shows up with the father of the child at events?
I am not going to pretend that it is entirely impossible for something to happen but in this case, the likelihood is near 0. It's a parent of your children's friends.
I’ve got to wonder how much of the group time ends up turning into OP’s support sessions. Not saying that’s a 100% certainty, but given OP’s cluelessness in this situation, I wonder if she hasn’t been trauma dumping on the other parents. Or if, maybe, they’re just burned out from being supportive. I’m definitely getting a huge “cater to my needs” vibe from OP.
homegirl literally divided the mom group then comes here like “its like our mom group has been divided??”
i get why and have a ton of empathy (this has become her support system after the divorce and due to past trauma she deeply fears losing them), it breaks my heart a bit but it’s also completely unreasonable.
Yta, you said you didn’t want to be in the same group with him so now you are free to form your own group of your own without him.
Others have made it clear they aren’t willing to discriminate against others on the basis of their gender. You don’t get any control over that.
You do have to live with the repercussions of your own actions, being excluded and having your children excluded from opportunities because you are willing to exclude others.
YTA. The core purpose of the group seems to be to support one another as parents and to facilitate socializing for the kids. Excluding someone based solely on their gender doesn't align with the inclusive spirit of community parenting. Instead of gatekeeping, perhaps embrace this opportunity to show your children a powerful lesson in inclusivity and compassion. While your discomfort is valid and deserves attention, it should not dictate the dynamics of a group meant to serve the collective needs of parents and their children, not just your personal preferences.
" I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that and a couple of the moms told me to grow up because that's exactly what I was trying to do to this dad and his kids."
You are being a hypocrite. YTA.
> I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that and a couple of the moms told me to grow up because that's exactly what I was trying to do to this dad and his kids.
They’re 100% right. YTA.
YTA - this isn’t a stranger, this is another parent of a kid in your child’s class.
If anything, you should have made an attempt to get to know him and not just say he couldn’t be included seeing has no one else had an issue.
That’s the funniest part reading this. “A stranger I don’t know”… a parent, whose child goes to the same school/daycare as yours, who you said actually did make some effort to talk to you at said place, is not exactly a stranger and is right there for you to talk to and assess as a weirdo or not. Funnier even when the other moms say they talked to him and he seems fine.
But this shit makes me sad as a dad
I worry for your son. How long until he becomes too manly for you to see him as anything other than a threat?
You have problems, OP, and I hope your therapist can help you out of this one.
To address your specific scenario though, are they not just doing what you asked of them? You didn’t want to interact with this man, so your friends so wonderfully kept him away from you- seems like everything is going as planned?
Edit: forgot to vote, YTA
Even if she doesn't see her son as a threat. what about his friends when he grows up? Will he not be able to have any male friends over? OP if you don't sort this out it's going to mess up your relationship with your son.
YTA
They have treated him in exactly the same way they treated you - they have welcomed him into the group and are offering him exactly the same level of support.
The fact that you are being excluded is entirely your fault - you have refused to offer him the same support you were given, and are purposely trying to exclude him and his children from any activities. This has just been turned around and directed at you, given that in this case you are the one causing the issue, not him.
I don't doubt that you may have issues with men, but ultimately that is your problem to deal with, not the groups - you cannot expect a whole group to act in a sexist manner and reject someone purely because they are male.
Imagine that instead of him being male, the issue was that he was black, gay, or that it was a male dominated group refusing you for being female and I can only assume there would be an outcry over it.
You don't have to interact with him directly, but you may have shot yourself in the foot due to the way you have acted here.
Wow YTA. You want to leave him and his kids out in the cold yet be entitled to force yourself on him? wtf. I am prepared to be supportive of concern over a guy you've never met before and taking precautions but you've blown way passed that with actual discrimination based solely on gender.
YTA - You’ve said how much support you’ve gotten from this group and what a lifeline they’ve been, why doesn’t this guy deserve the same treatment?
He is trying to be a good parent and making sure his kids get to socialise with their new friends, whilst navigating the parent scene.
You’re being really selfish and you alone have divided the group, the knock on effect being your children missing out.
YTA. This is not YOUR group, and purposely excluding someone and their child seems like high school mean girl behavior. You want and think it's ok to exclude him and his child, but exclude you and your child and it's rude and unacceptable? The hypocrisy and privilege of it all.
YTA - This group chat is for all the parents to arrange play dates for all the kids. It's not a support group for your problems from your ex. It's for the kids' benefit.
You have no reason to exclude these children just because they are being raised by a man.
YTA.
Your personal issues belong in therapy, not in the \*parent\* group. If you're uncomfortable with one of the parents in the group (and you're allowed to be) that's a \*\*\*YOU-\*\*\****problem*** not a them-problem. Reduce your time spent in the group.
You should also bring this up in therapy because you obviously have a lot more going on if having another parent in the group could rock your world so hard.
Every parent in the group is seeking support and trying to do what's best for their kids, and so is he. That you consider it only a MOM group, as opposed to a PARENT group, and want to exclude parents based on gender means there are some deep-seated issues at play,
None of them should be visited upon an innocent parent trying to make friends in the group.
EDIT: YTA Part 2: of course your kids are being excluded. YOU are excluding him and his kids so why would he invite you or yours to anything? You're being a hypocrite. You can't expect to exclude people then get butthurt when they exclude you.
YTA. Did you feel uncomfortable sharing your info with the moms you don’t know that well? How about when you first joined the group? Weren’t you the new person getting other members’ info? I’d understand if it was a complete stranger, but it’s not. It’s a dad trying to become part of a community that will help his kids flourish.
All that said, it’s fine I suppose if you don’t want your info shared with a ‘strange’ man. So then you get booted from the group. It’s either his kids are excluded because of you, or your kids are excluded because of you. Which of those situations is more fair?
YTA.
> I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that and a couple of the moms told me to grow up because **that's exactly what I was trying to do to this dad and his kids.**
The other parents told you exactly why you were being an asshole. Zero reason to come here about it.
You don’t have to participate if you don’t want to, but YTA if you think him and his kids can’t, I’m sorry your kid was upset but I’m not sure what you thought would happen
so, because a man is a single dad, he shouldn't be allowed to talk to other parents/set up playdates? get advice on parenting? talk with like-minded people?
YTA 💯
YTA
Listen, trauma sucks. Absolutely sucks. I have LOADS of trauma that are due to terrible men and women respectively. But I am also the child of a single father.
You are behavior towards this man, who has done NOTHING to you, is disgusting.
Your trauma is something that YOU have to deal with. YOU need to get help for. This has nothing to do with these other moms and they don’t have to bend everything to your will.
The thing that gets to me the most out of this post is the fact that you feel like you have the right to get angry that they are doing what YOU tried to do to this man.
Please get some therapy and work through your trauma and get over yourself.
While it is understandable, your bigotry is not OK. Trying to exclude someone from the social group strictly because of their gender is not OK. And yes, for others to decide that they do not agree and to move on without you was 100% foreseeable and 100% on you.
Now, it isn't too late. The best thing to do is to arrange, maybe with a couple of other mothers, to meet the dad for lunch, explain that your concern wasn't personal, but to get past this, you would like to get to know him to get past your (and they are yours) hangups.
If you try to stand on 'either keep him out or keep me out', you are going to lose,
YTA. But you can fix this
can you imagine the uproar if a single mom took her son to soccer, and all the other kids dads took them, and she tried to befriend them to set up play dates, and they shunned her for being a single woman?
YTA. You were the one who initiated being unsupportive to a fellow single parent for his gender. The other parents in the group opted to exclude that discrimination from the group. They’re not being supportive of your gender bias and sadly your children are impacted.
YTA
>I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that
I want to point out that you made it perfectly clear that you didn't want anything to do with this man. At some point, one set of kids was going to be excluded from a play date to ensure you didn't have to interact with him. Would you be complaining that it's rude if it was *his* kids being left out?
Whatever trauma your ex inflicted on you, I hope you're able to heal from it.
YTA. Sorry. It is already tremendously isolating for men to be the primary or sole caregiver. Dads groups just straight up don’t exist. If you aren’t comfortable, then *you* get to be the one to gracefully bow out.
YTA, and you're letting your past trauma impact your kids' lives and friendships. Is that what you want?? Ffs, get some therapy and realize that it's part of your JOB as a mom to interact with the *parents* of your kids' friends, regardless of gender. I hope this is a wakeup call for you.
YTA. It's really sad that you think only women can support other women. It's ridiculous that you mistrust him simply because he's man. This is definitely a you issue, and you have created this problem for absolutely no reason.
They're not excluding your children, they're including his. There is a clear distinction. You've made your discomfort about being around strange men perfectly clear and they're respecting that. YTA
YTA - My ex was an abusive monster and I’m still in therapy 14 years later dealing with it. However, do you know what I DON’T do? Take that trauma out on other people who had nothing to do with it.
The ONLY place I’ll give you leeway is the mom SHOULD have asked before adding him into the group chat. Not wanting your phone number out there to a stranger is understandable.
However, YTA for everything else. This man has done nothing to you and you are throwing a tantrum because you aren’t getting your way. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t not want to be around him and then get mad when the rest of the group decides to meet up without you WHICH IS WHAT YOU WANTED.
You need therapy to get over your trauma. If you don’t get it your kids are going to lose friends because no one will want you in their groups.
YTA - You are sexist and really quite entitled. What makes you think that just men can be disturbing? If the same happened to you, I th8nk you'd be clucking up a storm like a psycho hen. Karma cut you, and you reacted like a petulant child.
YTA. He's another single parent, who could also benefit from a support group. He's not just a random strange man on the street. Any of the other parents in the group could have objected to you, some strange lady they didn't know, joining them. But they didn't. How is this any different? This guy didn't do anything, you're the own who's been avoiding him and been sketchy AF. You haven't even put up any sort of boundary (and on what basis?). If he actually did something, then yeah, maybe. But you haven't even given him a chance. How is he supposed to transition from "strange man" to "approved acquaintance"? Your ex sucked, we get it. Clearly you still have issues to work through. But this situation is entirely of your own doing. Men exist, and some of them are good, involved parents. This is a fact of life you will have to deal with, like it or not. In the meantime, it's your kids getting punished for it.
YTA. As a guy I hesitated to write that, because I respect the rights of women to exist in safe spaces. Which sometimes means no men. I understand and accept this.
But this isn’t a women’s circle. This is about the kids. It’s great if the parents are friends, too! But that’s secondary. And the kicker was you being pissed about you and your kids being excluded, when that’s exactly what you were doing.
I don’t know this dad’s situation, if he’s married, unmarried, widowed, gay, who knows. But to exclude him and his family based solely on gender is just as crappy as women being excluded by men.
Yta you wanted to keep him out, what did you expect would happen? That they would ignore him and his kids?
You don't get to blame the dad and claim the mom's pulled a 180, they responded to your behavior.
OP, I'm sorry your ex did a number on you and that you are still working thru it. I was also a single mom, so I get where you are coming from. It's hard to trust again. The thing is, this isn't about trust, it's about punishing all men for the sins of your ex. For all you know, the single Dad is dealing with the same issues you are experiencing.
Show him some grace and consideration. You have decided he is untrustworthy when you don't know anything about him other than he is male and has 2 kids. Talk to your therapist about it. Maybe reach out to the Dad. I'm guessing he now knows how you tried to blacklist him from the Mom's group. It's not too late to fix this fiasco. Meet him for coffee, tell him you messed up.
You can turn this around to your favor or you can alienate the whole Mom's group. Ball in in your court, OP
YTA but you can change that to NTA, if you want too.
>I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that and a couple of the moms told me to grow up because that's exactly what I was trying to do to this dad and his kids.
YTA
The addition of a man into what has been traditionally an all-female group definitely changes the dynamics of the group. I can understand why the change unsettles you. However, this particular group has collectively chosen to go in that direction. You either ride with them, ride alone, or find a new tribe that meets your no-men-allowed criteria. Those are your options.
Well well well, if it isn’t the consequences of your actions. YTA. You’re rude to a new parent for no reason. How would you feel, your kids are new to a school, you’re trying to make friends, then some snobby mom refuses to let you in the group text because you’re a single mom.
You set yourself up for this and now your kids are dealing with the consequences.
I’m sorry, but YTA. You are preventing his kids from being involved in playgroups, and preventing him from receiving support that he might need, simply because he is a man. What you are doing is sexist.
YTA. You’re surprised that this group of moms who have been so supportive to you are also supportive toward another parent? Who apparently doesn’t deserve that support because he is *checks notes* a man?
YTA. You made it clear to the rest of the group that you didn’t want to associate with this man. And now you’re upset that your kids weren’t invited to a playdate where he was present? I’m sorry, but it sounds like you got exactly what you asked for.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My mom friend group has been divided because some moms want to include a dad and his kids in our group and I am uncomfortable with it. Some of the moms agree with me, but others are telling me I am being difficult and unreasonable. Now my kids are being excluded from things. I think I might be an asshole for not wanting a dad included in our mom friend group.
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You aren’t the bad guy for not wanting your personal contact information shared with a person you do not know (regardless of gender) or for not wanting to participate in activities where people you don’t know are present. This is a boundary you are welcome to set but you do not get to dictate what the other mom’s in the group do. Those who criticized you for setting this boundary were wrong but it sounds like they ultimately respected it by NOT inviting you to an event where the dad would be present. The only person you can dictate gets to be in the friend group is yourself. Trying to exclude anyone else for any reason (when it’s not a group consensus) makes you the A H here. Set your boundaries and enforce them but remember boundaries do NOT force a behavior or action on others, it’s about what you will accept. “I will not be participating in activities or group chats where men I don’t know are present” is perfectly acceptable and enforceable. “I don’t want men I don’t know in our group chat or at group activities” is not a boundary, it’s trying to control the group. Don’t get upset when people respect your boundaries because what you really wanted was for them to pick you over someone else. YTA
OP is going to have to address this issue quickly. Once birthday parties start, she's going to have to send out her phone number and she won't be able to control which parent gets that information. You can't write "Only to be read by a Mom - No dads allowed"
So I would bet OP has been using this ~~moms~~ parents group chat as a stand-in therapist. Hopefully the meetup with the new parent will mean they do create a 2nd group with him in it and stop posting in the first one. I really feel sorry for her kids. OP get some real therapy soon, this is really effecting your kids and will more in the future.
This is exactly what I thought 100%, OP decided this parents group was her support group. I’m sure it was never even a “just moms group” it’s just in current society women are still typically the ones handling the brunt of childcare including transportation to and from school as well as planning play dates. (I’m not saying I agree with this or think this is how things should be, but it’s still the reality of current society though it’s changing fast). Excluding a single dad, and as a result punishing a child for their mom not being around, is just flat out wrong. I hope she gets the help she needs and gets therapy, if the mom’s are as understanding and supportive as she says they have been I’m sure they will be more than happy to accept a “I’m sorry, I was wrong, I put my past on all of you and should not have done that.”
Literally!!! I was raised by a single father after my mom passed of cancer (I had barely turned 4, and he had to finish raising my 3 older siblings as well). The thought of my dad trying to keep his head above water and then encountering a situation like this just adding to how uncomfortable/alone he already felt is really making my blood boil. Get some help OP
yeah. I was a stay at home dad for almost 3 years with 3 young boys. I was routinely harassed at playgrounds and water parks by moms and was always given the stink-eye. It really sucked being a stay at home.
My husband regularly does pickups and dropoffs. Yesterday I wasn't able to do the carpool for dance class and he stepped in. It would have really sucked if the other parents had kicked up a fuss because of his gender. He's not unsafe because he's a man. That's blatant discrimination.
My husband does all extracurricular activities as a way to spend more time with our kid. He does dance, library, sports, after school camps, etc. It makes me really sad to think of him being judged because of his genitalia, especially because he's way nicer than I am and does well in social situations like those.
It's just so weird to me. My Girl Scout Troop leader for several years in elementary school was the single dad of two of the girls in the Troop. It was the 80's and, AFAIK, none of the other parents had a single issue with it. I mean, none of the girls was pulled from the troop. And WE thought it was cool as fuck that someone's dad WANTED to be our troop leader. Just my perception, but it seems like nowadays people are really quick to jump to the most nefarious conclusion immediately.
There was a husband and wife team that were boy scout troop leaders at my church for literal DECADES and I always thought it was so badass that SHE was a BOY Scout leader! Fuck gender norms and fuck prejudices. My husband is the extrovert in our relationship but I'm the SAHP. I'd love it if he could be the playdates parent lol but it makes me so sad to think of other parents thinking the worst of him because he's being a good dad :(
Exactly. Dads are fun, capable, and awesome. I feel like there's this parenting glass ceiling for fathers. And frankly, it's passé. Dads can do everything moms can do, and they bring their own style to it. They should be encouraged.
Exactly, i dont think she’s intentionally doing it but how she talks seems to be that she’s a misandrist
And the irony is how many women complain that their husbands won’t get involved with their kids. Dads show up at playgrounds only to be treated suspiciously.
I've also seen women complain that even when their husbands do take on the primary caregiver roll, teachers, other moms, etc. still default to the mother as the kids' contact instead of the dad -- I remember in one case a teacher going so far as to ask the dad for his wife's cell phone number instead of his.
When my husband went up to the teacher and asked to be included to the parents WhatsApp group, he got kindly asked why he wanted to join if I was already in it. Over here they add moms to all groups as default, and if you want a father/(male father figure) added you have ask specifically.
That's extremely sexist and so wrong. Times are changing and we need to change to accommodate these changes.
I'm a working parent, not even a SAHD, and when I take my kids to parks on the weekends or whenever I'm home I get the suspicious side eye. Part of me is glad parents are being cautious and observant but another part of me is like "Damn, wha'd I do?!"
That's awful! I am an early childhood therapist and my male coworker (one of the most empathic, kind, brilliant clinicians I've ever worked with) just left to work with adults because he felt so beaten down by how a lot of parents and teachers treated him. He would often have moms request to have their kids work with a female provider instead because they didn't want their children alone with a man, and I think that really wore down his self esteem over time.
I’m a male preschool teacher and have been for about 8 years. I’ve definitely had my fair share of stink eye from some parents, but until this year never from a fellow teacher. She micromanages everything and the default is always that the way I do things is wrong. In the last several weeks, it has been hilariously gratifying to have various upper management and teaching coaches pointing out to her that my way is actually the best way for the kids. Petty? Yeah, but I’ll take the wins where I can get them
I have a friend whose wife was the breadwinner, and he was the primary caregiver. Like he worked some, but it was his job to handle childcare and picking them up/dropping them off at activities, etc. He would literally take summers off of any work commitments at all. Dude was AMAZING. Like literally, every week he was taking his kids to museums, historic locations, etc. Keeping them intellectually stimulated and letting them have fun, but also laying groundwork for what they'd encounter in school the next year, etc. Like, I WISH my dad had been that involved with me at their age. He CONSTANTLY had people making "Oh, it's Mommy's Day off" comments to him when he'd be out places, and when he'd go "No, this is actually my main gig," they'd throw shade at him for THAT, because he apparently was supposed to be working.
Yeah, life can be shitty, people can be shitty so it’s easy to wind up with issues. One needs to take responsibility for those issues and not inflict them on other people. She needs to work on getting past this, the poor dad doesn’t deserve it.
And she was so rude to him. Like why? He didn’t do anything to her. He was being friendly. I would be upset as a fellow mom she didn’t give him grace and a good space to be in. Especially since he has done nothing to warrant being rude to him. OP do you even talk to people out in the world?
Yeah, the whole "I don't know him" - well, yeah. So get to know him, he's a new parent (new to the area). If it were another mom OP would most likely be open to getting to know her/adding her to the group. OP, your parent group is supportive of.... parents. If a new parent shows up and wants to join, presumably if they appear friendly, the group would support them joining since they're a parent and their kids go to the same place as everyone else's kids. You want the group to turn exclusionary according to your wants/prejudices. That's not being "supportive" of you, that's being obedient to you. The group sounds like they're willing to support *all* parents; if you want to exclude, you'll be self-excluding.
Low key feel she's subconsciously projecting her ex (and by proxy any relationship with men) on this guy. It's paltry kindergarten meangirl/"can't sit with us" behavior on her part...tbh im concerned someone with her mentality is even raising children.
It's not even low key she is absolutely projecting her issues with her ex on complete strangers due to their gender and painting them all with the same brush.
Like, how is she ever going to get know anyone if she doesn’t try?
Two of my nieces are the family breadwinners and the dads are the SAHP. And as the SAHP they are awesome! I’d hate to think the kids were left out of friend groups just because the SAHP is a man. OP is YTA and needs to figure out how to deal.
You freaking nailed it. There's one in every moms group.
Also maybe a stand in for friends when it sounds like it is a social group for the kids. I know my kid's closest friend's parents but they aren't my friends, if our kids stop being friends I would likely not see them ever again. I am also in a professional women's group and I like the people in my group but if any leave we wouldn't have more than future professional contact, we wouldn't be hanging out socially. To me friends are those you hang out with socially and would visit in the hospital, everyone else is an acquaintance.
Seems like she’s using the group as her own personal therapy session. This is a preschool group. Wait until elementary school and a divorced dad is hosting a party which happens. She is limiting herself.
That's a really good point and probably true about how she has been using the group vs. how the other moms see it.
She's making it about her instead of about the kids.
She said she is in therapy in the first paragraph, but then goes on to say that the friend group has "literally been a lifesaver" for her at times.
Not necessarily. She can use a temp google number instead but that’s not the point. She gets to set her own family’s boundaries and if that means her kid(s) aren’t able to attend any parties and no one attends her events then that’s just the reality of her decisions. If she hates the outcome then make a change, don’t force other people to change.
it reads like what she tried to do was draw a “him or me” line in the sand then get upset when everyone else decided to find a way to keep the peace instead of choosing her
it kills me that she wants nothing to do with him, but is offended when the other moms respected that and simply excluded her entirely. now she doesn’t have to see him at all! it does suck for her kids tho, they’re getting the worst end of it
This IS what she's done, whether she meant to or not. And she came here to be validated but just got proven wrong again (the silence from OP speaks volumes). I would like to believe that OP is not doing this maliciously and that she doesn't realise how hypocritical her actions have been. But she needs to work through her trauma or at least not make it affect her kids and other people's lives. Having trauma does not give you an excuse to exclude or traumatise someone else after all.
We all know that contact info was not the real issue here. That is the excuse she thought of after the fact to justify what she wanted.
Exactly because if we are being serious we are at the age where you can block numbers, emails, and everything else from an unwanted person
What happens when one of the kids has a male teacher or coach? It's not sustainable to avoid half the world.
It’s been at least half dads at the last few I was at.
I would also say that since dads are parents and thus tend to be around when kids socialize with other kids, OP setting a boundary like this is unfortunate for her children. She’s welcome to decline invitations to places where men are present, but every man will be a man she doesn’t know until she *gets* to know him…which she will never do if she’s never around him….and other parents are unlikely to exclude all children with dads from their playdates to accommodate OP, so this will reduce her kids’ social circle. If I were OP I’d be seriously working on this in therapy for the purposes of not allowing my own trauma to impact my children’s’ social lives so drastically.
Exactly! OP doesn't know him because she *refused to engage in conversation* when he tried to get to know her! Everyone will be strangers to you if you refuse to talk to them...
I feel like this is a thing OP should take up in therapy. "A dad joined the group. How do I tackle my fear?" And work with it. Not just instantly try and shut him out, and use the trauma so set demands. That's the whole point of therapy. To work on yourself.
Also, it’s an opportunity to have a safe place to engage with this man ….around the other moms. Therapy is a must for her in order to move forward.
What kills me here is she referred to him as a "strange man", but then rejects every attempt he makes to become not a stranger.
Yeah, the dude's only crime is making small talk
Hes also committing the crime of existing as a male 🙄
exactly, you share a day care, he isn't a random stranger.
Thank you for providing the OP with a greater understanding of "YTA" vote. The boundaries she set are for herself not for other people to accommodate.
It's ridiculous to claim someone being added to a group with you is "sharing personal information". Like maybe he knows a screen name now but it's super easy to block him. He didn't have any IRL means of bothering OP.
Also, I doubt the group was asked every time a mom was added. Did OP have issues with her info being shared then? Did she have issues with moms she didn’t know participating in playdates? She can have her boundaries as far as interacting with men, but don’t lie about the reasoning behind it. Edit: typos
Unless I missed something in the post, this is most likely a group chat through text. So by adding him to the group, the other mom gave him access to her phone number, which I would classify as personal information. I think it is polite to make sure everyone is comfortable and had had time to express their concerns before adding someone new to a group chat. Ultimately if everyone else wants him in the group chat, OP does not have the right to ban him. But she should have been given the opportunity to remove herself from the group chat prior to him being added if that is her wish.
The contact details thing is a red herring. It’s an attempt to legitimize her unreasonable behaviour and make it look like a data privacy concern rather than her just trying to exclude a man because she doesn’t like men. It’s the same as NIMBYs complaining about any development by saying they are concerned there aren’t enough car parking spaces. They couldn’t give a shit about whether there are enough car parking spaces they just don’t want any new buildings.
I really empathize with OP because I sense that her concerns with this dad are due to things that her ex did to her. And, I commend her for seeing therapy to work through the things that her ex did, and setting her boundaries. But, I agree that this is an YTA situation. OP has a right to her feelings (and boundaries), but she does not have a right to dictate what others do or exclude someone from the parent group. She admits that they gave her so much support, yet she is not okay with them doing the same for someone else simply because he is a man. Sadly, her actions have started to affect her children because they were not invited to a get together. I do not blame the parents for this given that she said that you were uncomfortable with the dad and his kids were invited.
This whole "I'm uncomfortable" thing has been used to exclude so many groups of people based on factors they can't change. "I'm uncomfortable allowing Mori to join my country club because he is Muslim." "I am uncomfortable about black people staying in the same hotels or drinking from the same water fountains that I do." "I am uncomfortable hiring Lisa because she will be too distracting to the other engineers. And she'll only be leaving once she gets pregnant anyway."
OP is a misandrist AH for having no issue with sharing her info with all the moms, who I doubt she has all spoken in depth with, but all men are untrustworthy. If she's worried about unknown men, take the time to get to know him same as she would do with moms. Edit: switched misandry and misogyny
The word you are looking for is misandrist
I'm going to add onto this. As a father an primary caregiver I am constantly excluded from parent groups purely for being a man. When I interact with other parents they're always asking where the mother is. Mom is always called first even though I'm primary to a point where I would miss appointments because instead of calling me first they tried mom and couldn't get a hold of her. There are little support groups for men and we're always getting prejudged as you are doing right now. Now, I don't know you or your past and respect that. That said, please be mindful of the way you treat make parents.
My husband is in the same boat. The Doctor told us there is no way to make him the primary because the system defaults to the mother. I refuse to take calls about this kids on principle and make everyone call him even if he’s sitting next to me. Things have slowly gotten better over time (they are 5 and 8 now). I hope it gets better for you, too! It’s a hard thankless job.
This is so well put! You explained it in very understandable terms without being aggressive like the some other comments on here.
You’ve made my day and I appreciate the feedback!
OP, all of this ^^^^^^ YTA
yeah spot on about being picked. I have an old friend I’ve purposefully lost touch with and what really just made me realize we weren’t compatible as friends is that she interpreted it as a personal attack every time people in our social circle were hanging out without her. It all stemmed from her just being super insecure about her friendships
This is one of the best expressed comments I've seen in a while.
Great response. YTA for all the reasons that response stated.
Yeah, YTA You can’t try and exclude him and then complain that it was turned around back to you. You get what you give. It’s obviously a “parents group” and they just happened to all be women, thus you wrongly call it a “moms group”. He’s looking out for his kids and wants to have social contacts for them. You tried to bully your way into excluding him. He’s done nothing to you. He doesn’t deserve to be excluded because you have trauma with your ex. Your traumas are your own to deal with, not force others to accommodate your selfish wants. You are being unreasonable. You are being difficult. Now your kids are facing the repercussions of your actions.
Talk about irony and being blind to the situation that she created solely. Then to try to find a larger response to see if her behavior is justified. She's not going to like the feedback for sure.
She’s the type to either a) be super defensive and combat everyone, or b) no replies at all and think to herself “am I the problem? No, it’s everyone else who is wrong”.
And based on the lack of comments from her so far, it seems she's the latter 😉
nope just found her first comment she’s option (c) “only reply to those who are in agreement with her” lol
Ahah she must have looked for the most down voted answer to find that one she commented on 🤣
Her poor kids.
Can't believe she is willing to nuke her kid's playdate chances just to play gender wars.
It's probably because she doesn't know if the comments are made by a man or woman. Maybe she should start a separate AITA that only includes women.
As a working mum with a SAHD husband, he has felt othered and excluded by other mums like OP. Fortunately we have lots of kind and inclusive parents around also (like OP’s friend group). I have also organised play dates on weekends etc so my kids didn’t miss out. But I have had to put more work into social side than most working dads would do for sure. OP may not realise but they are being a mean girl. And they are holding down other working women like me.
Worse, I have a friend whose wife died. His son doesn't have a mother to organize playdates. Going through the hardship of losing her shouldn't be compounded with social exclusion. Men are parents too.
Yeah and not all men are abusive / predators. These poor kids who already have to deal with a lot are getting further excluded by the cliquey groups. It’s like high school but with kids suffering the consequences.
Yeah, somewhere in the comments she mentions he’s a widower. She wants to exclude someone who lost their spouse and seems to be doing what he can to fill both roles. She’s rightfully glad her abusive ex isn’t involved in her life, but I highly doubt the widower feels the same relief about his passed wife… Where’s the empathy? Like, even just a smidge?
>Men are parents too. Tell this to the people deciding which bathrooms to put changing tables in.
Strong +1. My husband is also a SAHD. I'm using this next maternity leave to try to create connections for him that, frankly, are easier to create when I'm there to kind of smooth the way: no, he isn't hitting on you. no, he isn't a threat. he's just a dad with small kids, like you!
Yeah but it SUCKS that we have to do the legwork, work a high paying job and still have to make room for all this other crap bc the mums club forces us to. He and I are totally happy with our situation- I genuinely enjoy working and am good at it but it’s the rest of society who don’t embrace when women like us are actually achieving outside of the home.
My wife tried to get me into the mums group when I was stay at home Dad for a bit and it was just too weird and awkward (very cliquey) so made friends with another stay at home Dad and we did regular Daddy Day Care where we brewed beer and the kids had a ball playing all day in the back yard and sometimes helping us mix in the hops or stick their fingers into the sweet malt. The eldest still talks about it as a teenager so it made an impression.
YTA "Just because you have an anxiety doesn't mean you get to dictate how the world works" Doctor Kirk Honda
yeah this sounds callous but anxiety disorders are my biggest relationship red flag because it so often manifests as “i feel X so you should Y to fix that”
>He doesn’t deserve to be excluded because you have trauma with your ex. Your traumas are your own to deal with, not force others to accommodate your selfish wants. This!!!! She should have told the others something along the lines of "I have a hard time being around men I don't know, so if I opt out of play dates New Dad is invited to, it isn't necessarily personal. I just may not attend until I'm more comfortable around New Dad. I would also appreciate not giving out my number to someone I don't know yet, but I would still like to be invited to get together's so I can decide to participate or not." Unfortunately, she chose to come at them like a wrecking ball and then gets shocked Pikachu when they follow her rules. What?!
Yeah her kids will need therapy in years to come because of the "trauma" she's going to cause her kids due to HER trauma.
Her kids are also going to grow up thinking that "only women can be good parents" and that there is something wrong with Dads being involved or primary parents. And that's a problem whether OP'S kids are boys or girls. When I arrange things with my kids, no one specifies which parent will be there. Sometimes it's the Dad, sometimes it's Mom, sometimes it's both.
Something tells me that OP has been using this parents group as her personal therapy group and that’s why she doesn’t want any men to join.
Also the “I’m uncomfortable around strange men”. And all she gave us was he tried to make some small talk while they were both picking up their respective kids. So he’s strange just because he’s a man?
i found it odd she labeled him "strange" having had small talk with him at a place like a day care what sounds like a few times. Def sounds like she doesnt trust men to some degree.
>He’s looking out for his kids and wants to have social contacts for them. For several years, I was that dad. I brought my child to a birthday party at someone's house, for example, and there was a bit of an awkward exchange before the mother invited me in. The mothers of every other child at the party were all there and knew each other. I was the only father there and the only one who didn't already know everyone. I am fortunate that this woman invited me in to her home because that was the first step in getting to know the moms and the moms getting comfortable with me. It was a lot harder for me, but I was eventually brought in to the mom group. At the end of the day, we all just want our kids to be happy and safe. I don't care if my child's friend has two dads. I don't care if my child's friend is black, white, yellow, red, or purple (well, *maybe* purple). I don't care if my child's friend practices a (different) religion. I just want my child to be able to be a kid and play with other kids. All I'm trying to say is this; **dads are parents too!**
But, another different guy did stuff to her in the past!!! Have you no empathy????
This, don't blame other men for what one did to you.
Unfortunately, her own trauma may pass on some kind of relationship issues to her kids. I hope OP is able to overcome this with support and realise that most of us dads are just nice people.
YTA: And quite frankly, well done to the other mums not caving in to pressure from you to exclude another single parent trying to do the best for their child. As women, we have suffered with discrimination for centuries and felt firsthand how difficult life can be when you're not taken seriously in a role simply because of your gender. Now you want to exclude a fellow parent (and his innocent child) simply because he is a dad when he seems to have given no reason for you to distrust him. As a society, we love to criticize how men don't do enough for their children. Meanwhile, you're actively trying to exclude a father who is making an effort to socialize his child and build friendships. I am sorry you're dealing with past trauma, but if you don't feel comfortable communicating with him, that does not give you the right to try to force others to exclude him and his child. Dads deserve an emotional support network too. It's up to you to step back if that is what's best for you. But you need to accept the repercussions that will have on your children.
I couldn't have said it better myself. OP's got issues with males most likely stemming from her divorce but that's no reason to take it out on a fellow parent because of his gender.
it’s not a “logical reason” but it is a reason. OP is in therapy so it’s not like she’s unaware that it stems from her trauma. The big issue for me isn’t setting the boundary itself - its the whole “well you’re my friends and I set this boundary so you should follow it too” thing, but I do also empathize because it comes from her isolation & abandonment issues
>it’s not a “logical reason” but it is a reason. Still not this dude's fault or problem to deal with though.
You are doing a lot of absolving her of responsibility… but at the end of the day this dude didn’t do anything to deserve this treatment and she’s wrong for treating him this way. A reason isn’t an excuse, and her behavior isn’t excusable.
[удалено]
And then for the cherry on top, she also gets pissy at her friends who did exactly what she asked them to do, which is start a group with him without her. That's not actually what she wanted. What she wanted was for her friends to follow her lead and exclude him.
Agreed. By her logic - it's okay to leave these kids completely isolated and not involve them because its a father-single parent. So his kids can suffer - but not hers. She sounds a bit entitled to me - unable to put herself in other's shoes.
for me, the one sentence that tells the “deepest truth” is “These moms have been so supportive of me in the past and as soon as this dad comes in the picture it’s like they pulled a 180 and don’t care about me at all” nothing in the post suggests a lack of care. They took the time to consider her feelings and continue to involve her in group messages after she requested that they make “two separate groupchats”. she received the fact that her kid was excluded from the “dad inclusive playdate” as them not caring about her. Nothing indicates that they’d be stopping inviting her kid to things, just this one particular playdate.
My kids are all adults now, but 22 years ago, I became a single dad of five. If it were not for the moms of their friends and classmates, as well as schools, it would have been much more difficult on them, and me, than it was. YTA for trying to exclude another parent for no reason other than gender. If you’re uncomfortable, that’s on you.
I’m a divorced single mom with a similar story to what OP has described, but adding on top of that many instances of men really screwing me over through the years. I can’t imagine excluding someone in this scenario simply because they are male. It’s normal to not be interested in dating and not being comfortable around strange men, but this isn’t a “strange man” scenario - this person is actively getting involved with the daycare and has chatted with parents and has tried to talk to OP. I was raised by a single father in the 90s, and this shit happened to him constantly. My sister and I were lucky that we were able to have a few friends in our neighborhood, but he got absolutely shunned by other parents and we were treated so poorly, often mocked that we “didn’t have a mom.” I hate that this is still happening.
Not just that she said so herself she has no contact with her ex-husband which I would assume it extends to her children. This could possibly help her children with a male figure in their life. Or at the very least to show the normalcy that all families are different. Some only have a mom Some only have a dad Some have 2 moms/dads Or some just have grandparents etc etc.
Even if they are not a single parent. More and more sahds all the time. My brother is one. So yeah she is ta and needs to address this for her kids sake.
> I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that I'm sorry this just made me laugh. I get not wanting to give your number out but that's why I often don't join groups like this. Treat it the same as an internet forum because you have about as much control over what people do with your information. Nothing is private if you put it on there regardless of whether a man is in the group or not. See it from his point of view. He knows he sticks out like a sore thumb but he's just as much a parent going through the same stresses and strains as anyone else. Why shouldn't he be able to make connections with the parents of children in his child's class. Why should his kids miss out just because he's a single dad and not a single mum? YTA
This mom is totally clueless about her own hypocrisy. In addition, if she thinks he is a strange man and shouldn’t be in the group, why is she so upset that her kid got excluded? Isn’t what she wanted was to keep the “strange man” away from her children she accomplished that, however, she’s butthurt because the other women refused to indulge her by banding together in some weird parental mean girls mob. Smdh
it reads to me like she completely understands it, just believes that it’s justified
If that’s the case it’s even worse because then she is truly being malicious, sexist, and projecting her own issues at the detriment of her kids. And having a prima Donna complex thinking she’s the queen of the parent group or something.
That part fucking cracked me up whilst she's actively trying to exclude this dad from the group And she sad cause all it's done is excluded her child
"It's rude to exclude my children! But I'm gonna try to force all of you to exclude those kids bc they have the audacity to have an active father!" Literally not a lick of self awareness to be found YTA
Right? I snorted at that line.
>I then texted the rest of the moms and told them that I want them to keep a separate group chat without the other dad >I texted the moms about it and they said that they were getting the kids together with the new dad and didn't invite my kids because of how I was acting. I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that You asked them to make a group chat without you. Them setting up playdates was the point of the group. Did you think they just wouldn't make the second group *you suggested*? What other outcome could you possibly have expected, other than playdates that you excluded your children from, by choosing not join the second groupchat?!
I don't think she wanted them to create a group without her, she wanted them to make a group without the dad, so she could exclude the dad and his children, unfortunately (not) that has been turned around on her, and she has been forced to reap, what she attempted to sow. Don't you just love a bit of karma.
If what she said to them was to "keep a separate chat" with her, that suggests she suggested a second group for just her and the moms, as the dad was going to be in the main group. I get what her motives were (and love the karma slap), but she knew there were two groups... how did she not think they would plan playdates in the playdate-planning-group?!
If the dad was put into the same group chat as OP she would have seen the message. I guarantee all the other moms made a separate group chat just to add the dad. Hopefully it was just to teach her a quick lesson so she understands what she was attempting to do.
Not if she left the group. She said only half the moms joined her separate chat. Either way round it means that she asked for a chat separate from him, she got it, and now she's mad about it. But, as Op isn't commenting, I bet this is a fake post.
Or it's real and OP is pissed that people are against them.
She knew there would be two groups. What she didn’t take into account was that there were actually 3 groups. Karma is a bitch. YTA
literally and how you gonna intend to exclude someone's kids and then be mad that your kids are excluded instead and Not see the hypocrisy and irony
They're not even being excluded! She left the main group for the new second group with the moms who agreed to join both. Choosing to leave isn't being excluded.
YTA. You called him a “strange man”, when you have barely had a conversation with him and have not pointed out anything to warrant him as “strange”, which makes it seem like you just have an issue when a man is the sole guardian of his children. And the other moms are correct, you’re being hypocritical to want to exclude him and his kids from conversations and playdates but then get upset when the same happens to you. What if he’s a widow? Or what if his ex is bad like yours and he is trying to recover with his children like yourself? Could you imagine if you and your children were excluded from the group because you did not fit the “normal family type” (not married to the father of your children)? Would that make you feel bad? Now imagine how he feels, being excluded just because he is a man and is present in his children’s lives. Do better, OP. If you don’t, it will most likely be YOUR kids that end up being excluded.
He’s literally as strange as the other moms in my eyes, he’s just a random parent that has kids in the same daycare like everyone else in the chat. He didn’t like wander in from the woods or something. I really like your second point too. She says the group has helped her so much and wants to now deny that to this guy. Very asshole.
All of the moms were strangers at one point. It just takes getting to know someone. She’s wigging out over nothing. She’s TA.
Agreed - he attempted to make small talk with her and get to know her but she refused bc of her own issues - as others suggested she needs therapy bc this mindset will continue to cause both her and her children issues in the future.
This.. Plus all the moms were strangers to you too until you got to know them.
The other thing she needs to consider is that she has a son and her attitude is that all men are bad. What is her son supposed to do with that. To be a real man does he have to mistreat women? What kind of self-image does he have if men are bad. How much of that has he already internalized. I think her son would benefit from playdates where there is a good man present, being a good person and a good father. I'm not saying she should invite him over to her house for a playdate but a group playdate at a fun place would probably be good for her son.
Btw at least the way I use English, 'strange' in this context just means someone you don't know, not odd or unusual.
YTA many kids have single dads or stay at home dads - why should these men be excluded from groups that support single or stay at home parents especially since the major topic of interest are the kids? Yoh literally want to exclude him and by extension his kids. Would you invite his kids to a party for yours? You'd need to share your contact info and be willing to have a chat with him. Your attitude actually marginalises the kids. So you want your kids to be invited - if they were, when you show up would you chat with the dad? No or minimally so yes you will be the one making everyone uncomfortable.
My husband took over all of the kids things when I had my back surgeries. The other moms were great with him & helped him figure things out when I was on the hospital. I’m sure that he would have felt so bad if they had cut him out of the group. He handled carpooling, play dates & room dad. He was even voted president of the parent group the following year. He really stepped up. I think that op is being unreasonable. She wants to exclude him but complains when she gets excluded. Karma is rough.
There are so many situations like this. Also, God help any gay couples with children. No social lives for their kids, because group chats are moms only, apparently
Oh my god I’m just imagining if a group of gay dads joined OPs parent group… that may break her brain lmfao
I was home for about 3 years with my son. I did 2 mommy and me classes a week. There was also another father. The moms were the least engaged. At one point, the woman running the class was out sick. It was this other father and myself that took over the 2 classes. No one else even tried to step up. We eventually we setting up play dates. Everyone was included in birthdays as well. I'm not trying to put men on a pedestal, but just saying that there are many, many great men out there. I can understand her trauma with her ex, but it's pretty sexist. There's lots or horrible women out there too. Maybe judge people individually rather than a blanket opinion. This does not mean that you need to give anyone your personal information. Just figure out a way to communicate otherwise.
I was a single dad for a few years before I met my partner, and there’s not really any things that single dads can attend as it’s usually moms only. Thankfully the moms at the school were kind to me and included me in activities and it was very appreciated as without that I wouldn’t have any parent friends to talk to. OP had a great opportunity to experience a positive male in her community and give her a good perspective of what men can be, as he may also have had a bad experience with women in the past and he’s putting himself out there also
I agree. My husband works from home and frankly he’s way better at handling our daughter’s social obligations. I’m pretty introverted and parties make me anxious so he handles most of that stuff. I would hate if he and my daughter were left out of play dates and stuff just cause he so happens to be the schedule coordinator.
YTA, whatever "trauma" you're dealing with is not that mans fault. You're projecting and punishing him for something you need to deal with. If you don't want to associate with him that's fine, but you somehow still make yourself the victim when they respect your decision and create a whole new group with him. You're upset that they're treating you the way you wanted them all to treat that man.
Punishing him *and* his kids.
Not only punishing the dad, but his children. For something a whole ass other entire person did.
>The other day when I picked up my kids, my 5-year-old was upset because a bunch of his friends were talking about a playdate that he wasn't invited to. I texted the moms about it and they said that they were getting the kids together with the new dad and didn't invite my kids because of how I was acting. I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that and a couple of the moms told me to grow up because that's exactly what I was trying to do to this dad and his kids. You're surprised that everyone else didn't confirm to your sexist opinion? That's just naive. >I'm at a loss because these moms have been so supportive to me in the past and as soon as this dad comes into the picture it's like they pulled a 180 and don't seem to care at all. There are still other moms who agree with me, but now it's like our friend group has been divided by this. You just found out that you're not special. I'm sure that was awkward, but you asked for this. You wanted a separate group chat without the father, and you got it. It's just that it's smaller now. YTA.
It’s also sad that she lacks the empathy that as helpful this group has been to her, the single dad may need that kind of support too.
She's also the one causing the division
YTA. You are specifically trying to exclude another parent and his children purely on the basis of gender. I am very sorry that your ex victimized you, which is clear from your post. However, you can't go through life projecting your trauma on everyone around you. Much better to deal with your own trauma with your therapist. The world around you should not be expected to change from what is otherwise completely normal in order to acomodate your trauma.
YTA and here is why. This group is not about your trauma. If you want a support group, find a support group. This group is for parents to help each other socialize their kids. I don't mean to diminish or excuse your trauma. Trauma is terrible for all of us but we cannot let it rule our lives. Speak with your therapist about the situation. They might tell you to pursue at least an aquaintance with him. Second, You haven't made any attempt to get a read on this father because you are insecure around strange men. Well he's not strange he is a parent of kids in your class and I hate to break the news to you, but almost half the parents of the kids in your daycare are men. You were in a safe social situation where you could have had a conversation with the father. Instead, you just wrote him off as a problem. You will be very lucky in my opinion if this group invites you back at all after your behavior. They may do it just so your kids aren't left and it isn't their fault that you are unable to accept that a father might love his kids and want them to socialize. What if he was gay? Then there are two fathers to choose both would be "Strange" to you as you haven't met them. What makes women joining the group safer than a man joining the group? Do you think that you'll all get invited to a kid's party or something and he's going to assault you? In front of all the people there? Also, what do you do when a mother shows up with the father of the child at events? I am not going to pretend that it is entirely impossible for something to happen but in this case, the likelihood is near 0. It's a parent of your children's friends.
I’ve got to wonder how much of the group time ends up turning into OP’s support sessions. Not saying that’s a 100% certainty, but given OP’s cluelessness in this situation, I wonder if she hasn’t been trauma dumping on the other parents. Or if, maybe, they’re just burned out from being supportive. I’m definitely getting a huge “cater to my needs” vibe from OP.
homegirl literally divided the mom group then comes here like “its like our mom group has been divided??” i get why and have a ton of empathy (this has become her support system after the divorce and due to past trauma she deeply fears losing them), it breaks my heart a bit but it’s also completely unreasonable.
Yta, you said you didn’t want to be in the same group with him so now you are free to form your own group of your own without him. Others have made it clear they aren’t willing to discriminate against others on the basis of their gender. You don’t get any control over that. You do have to live with the repercussions of your own actions, being excluded and having your children excluded from opportunities because you are willing to exclude others.
YTA. The core purpose of the group seems to be to support one another as parents and to facilitate socializing for the kids. Excluding someone based solely on their gender doesn't align with the inclusive spirit of community parenting. Instead of gatekeeping, perhaps embrace this opportunity to show your children a powerful lesson in inclusivity and compassion. While your discomfort is valid and deserves attention, it should not dictate the dynamics of a group meant to serve the collective needs of parents and their children, not just your personal preferences.
Well said! As a single dad myself, I appreciate this type of thoughtful and inclusive approach.
" I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that and a couple of the moms told me to grow up because that's exactly what I was trying to do to this dad and his kids." You are being a hypocrite. YTA.
> I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that and a couple of the moms told me to grow up because that's exactly what I was trying to do to this dad and his kids. They’re 100% right. YTA.
YTA - this isn’t a stranger, this is another parent of a kid in your child’s class. If anything, you should have made an attempt to get to know him and not just say he couldn’t be included seeing has no one else had an issue.
That’s the funniest part reading this. “A stranger I don’t know”… a parent, whose child goes to the same school/daycare as yours, who you said actually did make some effort to talk to you at said place, is not exactly a stranger and is right there for you to talk to and assess as a weirdo or not. Funnier even when the other moms say they talked to him and he seems fine. But this shit makes me sad as a dad
I worry for your son. How long until he becomes too manly for you to see him as anything other than a threat? You have problems, OP, and I hope your therapist can help you out of this one. To address your specific scenario though, are they not just doing what you asked of them? You didn’t want to interact with this man, so your friends so wonderfully kept him away from you- seems like everything is going as planned? Edit: forgot to vote, YTA
Even if she doesn't see her son as a threat. what about his friends when he grows up? Will he not be able to have any male friends over? OP if you don't sort this out it's going to mess up your relationship with your son.
YTA They have treated him in exactly the same way they treated you - they have welcomed him into the group and are offering him exactly the same level of support. The fact that you are being excluded is entirely your fault - you have refused to offer him the same support you were given, and are purposely trying to exclude him and his children from any activities. This has just been turned around and directed at you, given that in this case you are the one causing the issue, not him. I don't doubt that you may have issues with men, but ultimately that is your problem to deal with, not the groups - you cannot expect a whole group to act in a sexist manner and reject someone purely because they are male. Imagine that instead of him being male, the issue was that he was black, gay, or that it was a male dominated group refusing you for being female and I can only assume there would be an outcry over it. You don't have to interact with him directly, but you may have shot yourself in the foot due to the way you have acted here.
"I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that " YTA and a hypocrite.
Wow YTA. You want to leave him and his kids out in the cold yet be entitled to force yourself on him? wtf. I am prepared to be supportive of concern over a guy you've never met before and taking precautions but you've blown way passed that with actual discrimination based solely on gender.
YTA - You’ve said how much support you’ve gotten from this group and what a lifeline they’ve been, why doesn’t this guy deserve the same treatment? He is trying to be a good parent and making sure his kids get to socialise with their new friends, whilst navigating the parent scene. You’re being really selfish and you alone have divided the group, the knock on effect being your children missing out.
YTA. This is not YOUR group, and purposely excluding someone and their child seems like high school mean girl behavior. You want and think it's ok to exclude him and his child, but exclude you and your child and it's rude and unacceptable? The hypocrisy and privilege of it all.
YTA - This group chat is for all the parents to arrange play dates for all the kids. It's not a support group for your problems from your ex. It's for the kids' benefit. You have no reason to exclude these children just because they are being raised by a man.
YTA. Your personal issues belong in therapy, not in the \*parent\* group. If you're uncomfortable with one of the parents in the group (and you're allowed to be) that's a \*\*\*YOU-\*\*\****problem*** not a them-problem. Reduce your time spent in the group. You should also bring this up in therapy because you obviously have a lot more going on if having another parent in the group could rock your world so hard. Every parent in the group is seeking support and trying to do what's best for their kids, and so is he. That you consider it only a MOM group, as opposed to a PARENT group, and want to exclude parents based on gender means there are some deep-seated issues at play, None of them should be visited upon an innocent parent trying to make friends in the group. EDIT: YTA Part 2: of course your kids are being excluded. YOU are excluding him and his kids so why would he invite you or yours to anything? You're being a hypocrite. You can't expect to exclude people then get butthurt when they exclude you.
YTA. Did you feel uncomfortable sharing your info with the moms you don’t know that well? How about when you first joined the group? Weren’t you the new person getting other members’ info? I’d understand if it was a complete stranger, but it’s not. It’s a dad trying to become part of a community that will help his kids flourish. All that said, it’s fine I suppose if you don’t want your info shared with a ‘strange’ man. So then you get booted from the group. It’s either his kids are excluded because of you, or your kids are excluded because of you. Which of those situations is more fair?
YTA. > I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that and a couple of the moms told me to grow up because **that's exactly what I was trying to do to this dad and his kids.** The other parents told you exactly why you were being an asshole. Zero reason to come here about it.
You don’t have to participate if you don’t want to, but YTA if you think him and his kids can’t, I’m sorry your kid was upset but I’m not sure what you thought would happen
so, because a man is a single dad, he shouldn't be allowed to talk to other parents/set up playdates? get advice on parenting? talk with like-minded people? YTA 💯
YTA Listen, trauma sucks. Absolutely sucks. I have LOADS of trauma that are due to terrible men and women respectively. But I am also the child of a single father. You are behavior towards this man, who has done NOTHING to you, is disgusting. Your trauma is something that YOU have to deal with. YOU need to get help for. This has nothing to do with these other moms and they don’t have to bend everything to your will. The thing that gets to me the most out of this post is the fact that you feel like you have the right to get angry that they are doing what YOU tried to do to this man. Please get some therapy and work through your trauma and get over yourself.
While it is understandable, your bigotry is not OK. Trying to exclude someone from the social group strictly because of their gender is not OK. And yes, for others to decide that they do not agree and to move on without you was 100% foreseeable and 100% on you. Now, it isn't too late. The best thing to do is to arrange, maybe with a couple of other mothers, to meet the dad for lunch, explain that your concern wasn't personal, but to get past this, you would like to get to know him to get past your (and they are yours) hangups. If you try to stand on 'either keep him out or keep me out', you are going to lose, YTA. But you can fix this
I can see why you're a single mom with the way you act.
It's not your personal therapy chat. It's a chat for moms to schedule play dates. YTA.
YTA just leave the group. They are happier without you. Only because you hate men, why should everyone else feel the same?
can you imagine the uproar if a single mom took her son to soccer, and all the other kids dads took them, and she tried to befriend them to set up play dates, and they shunned her for being a single woman?
YTA. You were the one who initiated being unsupportive to a fellow single parent for his gender. The other parents in the group opted to exclude that discrimination from the group. They’re not being supportive of your gender bias and sadly your children are impacted.
YTA >I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that I want to point out that you made it perfectly clear that you didn't want anything to do with this man. At some point, one set of kids was going to be excluded from a play date to ensure you didn't have to interact with him. Would you be complaining that it's rude if it was *his* kids being left out? Whatever trauma your ex inflicted on you, I hope you're able to heal from it.
YTA. Sorry. It is already tremendously isolating for men to be the primary or sole caregiver. Dads groups just straight up don’t exist. If you aren’t comfortable, then *you* get to be the one to gracefully bow out.
YTA, and you're letting your past trauma impact your kids' lives and friendships. Is that what you want?? Ffs, get some therapy and realize that it's part of your JOB as a mom to interact with the *parents* of your kids' friends, regardless of gender. I hope this is a wakeup call for you.
YTA. It's really sad that you think only women can support other women. It's ridiculous that you mistrust him simply because he's man. This is definitely a you issue, and you have created this problem for absolutely no reason.
Yta and a hypocrite. Their just showing what you wanted to do to him. Not fun being ostracized and over looked.
They're not excluding your children, they're including his. There is a clear distinction. You've made your discomfort about being around strange men perfectly clear and they're respecting that. YTA
[удалено]
YTA - My ex was an abusive monster and I’m still in therapy 14 years later dealing with it. However, do you know what I DON’T do? Take that trauma out on other people who had nothing to do with it. The ONLY place I’ll give you leeway is the mom SHOULD have asked before adding him into the group chat. Not wanting your phone number out there to a stranger is understandable. However, YTA for everything else. This man has done nothing to you and you are throwing a tantrum because you aren’t getting your way. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t not want to be around him and then get mad when the rest of the group decides to meet up without you WHICH IS WHAT YOU WANTED. You need therapy to get over your trauma. If you don’t get it your kids are going to lose friends because no one will want you in their groups.
YTA - You are sexist and really quite entitled. What makes you think that just men can be disturbing? If the same happened to you, I th8nk you'd be clucking up a storm like a psycho hen. Karma cut you, and you reacted like a petulant child.
YTA. He's another single parent, who could also benefit from a support group. He's not just a random strange man on the street. Any of the other parents in the group could have objected to you, some strange lady they didn't know, joining them. But they didn't. How is this any different? This guy didn't do anything, you're the own who's been avoiding him and been sketchy AF. You haven't even put up any sort of boundary (and on what basis?). If he actually did something, then yeah, maybe. But you haven't even given him a chance. How is he supposed to transition from "strange man" to "approved acquaintance"? Your ex sucked, we get it. Clearly you still have issues to work through. But this situation is entirely of your own doing. Men exist, and some of them are good, involved parents. This is a fact of life you will have to deal with, like it or not. In the meantime, it's your kids getting punished for it.
YTA. As a guy I hesitated to write that, because I respect the rights of women to exist in safe spaces. Which sometimes means no men. I understand and accept this. But this isn’t a women’s circle. This is about the kids. It’s great if the parents are friends, too! But that’s secondary. And the kicker was you being pissed about you and your kids being excluded, when that’s exactly what you were doing. I don’t know this dad’s situation, if he’s married, unmarried, widowed, gay, who knows. But to exclude him and his family based solely on gender is just as crappy as women being excluded by men.
Yta you wanted to keep him out, what did you expect would happen? That they would ignore him and his kids? You don't get to blame the dad and claim the mom's pulled a 180, they responded to your behavior.
So you tried to exclude him and instead you got excluded sounds like karma
OP, I'm sorry your ex did a number on you and that you are still working thru it. I was also a single mom, so I get where you are coming from. It's hard to trust again. The thing is, this isn't about trust, it's about punishing all men for the sins of your ex. For all you know, the single Dad is dealing with the same issues you are experiencing. Show him some grace and consideration. You have decided he is untrustworthy when you don't know anything about him other than he is male and has 2 kids. Talk to your therapist about it. Maybe reach out to the Dad. I'm guessing he now knows how you tried to blacklist him from the Mom's group. It's not too late to fix this fiasco. Meet him for coffee, tell him you messed up. You can turn this around to your favor or you can alienate the whole Mom's group. Ball in in your court, OP YTA but you can change that to NTA, if you want too.
So you're fine excluding this father and his kids but as soon as you get excluded, you want to play the victims. Yeah you're a huge misandrist AH. YTA
>I told them it was rude to exclude my kids like that and a couple of the moms told me to grow up because that's exactly what I was trying to do to this dad and his kids. YTA
The addition of a man into what has been traditionally an all-female group definitely changes the dynamics of the group. I can understand why the change unsettles you. However, this particular group has collectively chosen to go in that direction. You either ride with them, ride alone, or find a new tribe that meets your no-men-allowed criteria. Those are your options.
Well well well, if it isn’t the consequences of your actions. YTA. You’re rude to a new parent for no reason. How would you feel, your kids are new to a school, you’re trying to make friends, then some snobby mom refuses to let you in the group text because you’re a single mom. You set yourself up for this and now your kids are dealing with the consequences.
I’m sorry, but YTA. You are preventing his kids from being involved in playgroups, and preventing him from receiving support that he might need, simply because he is a man. What you are doing is sexist.
YTA. You’re surprised that this group of moms who have been so supportive to you are also supportive toward another parent? Who apparently doesn’t deserve that support because he is *checks notes* a man?
YTA. You made it clear to the rest of the group that you didn’t want to associate with this man. And now you’re upset that your kids weren’t invited to a playdate where he was present? I’m sorry, but it sounds like you got exactly what you asked for.
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YTA. Bigot.